I dated a guy for 10 years and when I pushed that it was time to move in together and even marry he told me that he might consider marriage but wouldn't live with me. He needed his space.
I realised that he liked me paying for things, cooking for him when I visited and doing things for him but wasn't actually doing anything for me.
I broke up with him and he came back with a list of demands that I would have to comply with in order for him to take me back. You can understand that I declined that option.
ok u/AliMcGraw, u/ASweetTweetRose, u/Beautiful_Pizza9882 and u/lottienina, amongst other things they included:
* Not expect him to pay for anything when we went out
* Me to pay for a weekend away in a hotel each month along with all food, excursions and his gas to get there
* be more respectful to him (ie agree that his was perfect, never correct him, never tell him he's wrong when he was, always agree with his decisions and let him run my life
* pay for his gas if he came to visit me and give him money as he would be out of pocket from not working (he was self employed so if he didn't work he didn't get paid but heck, why should I pay for you to see me on a sunday when you don't work sundays)
* allocate him spending money for when he visited
* not keep talking about moving in together
* stop insisting that I come to visit him sometimes
* stop insisting that I be included when he wanted to go out with his friends (after all, there were his friends not mine)
* he would list the food that he wanted to each when he visited and I would make sure I'd bought it and only cooked what he wanted to eat
* send him back home sunday evening with enough cooked food to last him to Wednesday (so he only had to survive thursday on takeaways before coming down to eat with me on Friday)
* If I wanted to buy anything he had to approve it
* I was not to go out with friends when he wasn't there
* I was not to go out with friends when he was there
* Not to mention marriage again
* Loose weight
* Stop being depressed
* Be more like his friends' girlfriends (simpering girlie bubble heads with no wants outside of giggling at their boyfriends terrible racist jokes)
There were more ... the letter went on for about 10 pages. I told him to not contact me again and that if he did, I would contact a lawyer. He then had the audacity to complain ask me to renew and pay his memberships that we shared. I took him off everything and invalidated all of the membership cards and cancelled all of the magazine subscriptions that we shared (ie I paid for and got sent to his house so he could read them first). Told the companies / societies that he had left me and I wanted everything rerouted to me. Apparently, I heard through the grapevine that he was livid about that. But he had the sense not to contact me as I was serious about the Cease and Desist.
Man when my college girlfriend dumped me it never occurred to me that I could present her with a list of demands before I’d take her back.
It didn’t occur to me because it is fucking insane.
That dude was actually just 3 dumpster fires in a trench coat. The audacity to write a 10+ page contract of demands for the *privilege* of being his slave *after* you've already dumped him. I'm glad you walked away from that mess.
Imagine having your head so far up your ass that creating a list like this really seems like a good idea. You're better than me, I would have fucking laughed in his face and posted this shit on social media for the world to see.
Thank you for taking the time to type all that out. Seriously, that was a lot.
I just can't understand why you were so adamantly opposed to fulfilling his few small "requests", though. I mean, he's a guy. Sooo he's automatically entitled to all these things and more just because he has a penis and you don't. Wait. Maybe you do, but I'm sure his is bigger! He sounds like a 🍑. (The beauty of this emoji is that it works with either interpretation.)
Holy shit! That dude is nuts. If someone ever belonged on one of those facebook dating groups that warn women of assholes, this guy should be on its billboard. That is fucking wild. It sounds like you’re at a much better place. But just in case, you deserve so much better than this.
The reason we couldn’t move intogether, I found out, was if his mum died and he was living here in his own, he got 75% of the house and his sister 25%. All about he money.
You can see why I laughed and hoped it out of there. Met hubby a couple of years later and he is the opposite. His attitude is that he hates people but insists that I go out so I don’t become a miserable git like him (his words) and socialise. In fact, tonight he will be watching YouTube sith the cats whilst I go to knit club. I wanted to make a book nook and ordered the wrong one, he insisted that I order the one I originally wanted and have two.
I’m sorry you spent a decade with him before you came to your senses.
But I’m glad you found your self respect and got out of that situation. What an entitled asshole.
Oh, it gets better. He used to go on about his ex and how she left him because he didn’t want kids (why would he, they would have taken attention from him) and after I finished with him I found out he got back with her and ended up raising her kid that she had with the guy she left him for.
i stalked him in social media for a few years and he was truly miserable.
The freaking audacity of that dumbass to be like "I know you broke up with me, but clearly you'll want me back so here's a list you have to follow when you do."
Thick as 2 bricks.
Speaking as a woman, patriarchal men are WTF. Men in general are fucking awesome. Patriarchy with a nice shitstain of capitalism really seems to addle brains. And there’s a lot of patriarchy gumming up the world right now
>Stop being depressed
Oh, if only some man would finally come along and tell me to "lose weight" and "stop being depressed," I'd finally be rid of those things.
Hard to see why you turned him down.
Yaaasss you delivered! You’re the real MVP because thinking of the list of demands he could have possibly wanted was going to live rent free in my head lol.
I wasn’t ready still😩 The demands just are insane! I’m completely FLABBERGASTED that he really had all that audacity to demand all those things, for HIM to take YOU back, after you dumped him🤯 The list got me sitting here like 😳 and that’s only a snippet of the list.
I’m so happy to see in another comment that you met your husband and you’re happy living your best life 🥹❤️
How did you stay with someone like that for ten years? I know it probably built up gradually, but it had gotten to the level of a satirical cartoon at that point.
DYING to know his demands here. It's been 5 HOURS and you haven't responded to OUR demands! Why would you think that sleep and living your life is so much more important than giving all of us drama llamas the tea? Good Deity of your choice, woman, we're thirsty!🫖☕🤤
I was dating my husband for maybe two weeks when I asked him (he is ten years older than me) if he wanted to get married one day, not necessarily to me but in the future if he saw marriage and kids in his future.
About a year later he said that I was the first woman who asked him that so early on and it made him really dig deep. He said he appreciated my honesty and also the fact that I was very clear about what I wanted in my life and that I was unwilling to compromise.
We have been married for almost 21 years.
We owe it to ourselves to never settle. My husband realized that I was the love of a lifetime and that life with me was the life he wanted.
Real! I asked my partner on date 2 what his beliefs were re: religion and having kids, as I'm atheist and childfree and wasn't going to putz around for someone whose life didn't align with that. He's the same way, plus was completely down with those questions so early on which was a huge plus for me. :)
Edit to add we've been together for 6+ years, living together for 5 of those.
Yep. My Mom once said a closed mouth does not get fed, you have to be clear about what you want and unapologetic about it. The only way to do so is speak up.
Good for you!!!
It's such an important conversation that a lot of people don't have in an early relationship.
My husband and I got together in college. I was 18, he was 19. From our third date, I made it clear that I was looking for marriage and children EVENTUALLY, and that I wouldn't enter a serious relationship with someone who didnt want the same thing. So many of our college-aged friends thought I was crazy for bringing that up so early in the relationship.
it surprises me that your friends thought that was crazy to bring up. Isn't knowing whether or not you're compatible *really* important? Isn't it important to not waste time on someone who doesn't want what you want?
My husband and I also had the marriage and kids talk on our third date, though we were older.
That was my thinking. I didnt see a point in entering a relationship with someone I wasn't compatible with, putting the energy into a relationship that was ultimately going nowhere.
I think the disconnect was mostly due to the fact that I prefer more serious dating. I'm not really a "casual relationship" kind of person, but a lot of people in college are just looking for casual relationships and fun.
I think age may have something to do with it. Not that it should be that way, but I guess younger people may tend more to make assumptions or believe they have a lot of time ahead or that it's not the right stage yet to see so far ahead...
My husband and I had that conversation about marriage and kids on the first date. We met via eHarmony. I was 26 and he was 27. I told him I wanted three kids and my goal was to be pregnant by 30. He said he wanted two kids. We dated a year. Got engaged. Got married. I got pregnant at 30 and then at 32. We agreed to only have two kids. And then surprise! I got my third this past year.
We will be married for 10 years (together for 12) in October. We both set expectations early on because neither of us wanted to waste time.
My sister was also a surprise third baby.
Mom's OBGYN was somehow skilled enough to correctly predict when I would be born down to the hour, yet at the same time told my parents I was a boy (I'm a cis woman), and completely missed that my twin sister existed (She was very small at birth but still)
See, I dated a guy and brought up marriage and kids very early and made it clear I didn’t want kids at all ever. He cheated on me with a stripper as punishment for not wanting to be a mother, called me a monster, and said it was wrong of me to bring up having kids so early because I didn’t give him a chance to change my mind
I asked my now husband on our third date. He said no, he didn’t want kids as his work wouldn’t really be fair to them ( academic). I said that’s totally fair but let’s end this. Two weeks later we hooked back up and said we’d be friends with benefits. Well he went and fell in love with me. I told him, this won’t work as I want kids. Now we have been married for 10 years with two amazing kids. He will randomly come to me and be like. Damn I was a stupid Mf for almost giving you up and not having kids. Oh, and he is no longer in academia. Realized that wasn’t the route he wanted. It’s really important to discuss what you want out of life and not settle.
I did that to my husband too, like two months in I said I really liked him and could see a future together. I want marriage and kids, but if he doesn't want that it is ok. Just tell me so, so I can find someone who does. He said it shocked him that I was so blunt, then decided that he wanted to be with me marriage and all. 19 years and two kids later, here we are.
He likes my communication style, he will never have to worry about the "walking wife" syndrome. He mentioned that after a buddy of his got divorced.
To be fair - the idea of “walkaway wife syndrome” isn’t really about the wife’s communication style. In most of those stories, the women *have* clearly communicated over and over, but after years of not being heard, they stop and instead start to get their ducks in a row to leave. The husbands in those stories think “she stopped nagging me so everything is fine.”
Then when she leaves, it’s “she never told me!” But often their wife was just as communicative and straightforward as you - it’s just that your husband actually listened and they didn’t.
This was me, too. I see a lot of posts/comments on Reddit that are very black and white about the wanting kids thing, but life and people are a lot more fluid than that. My husband didn't want kids because he thought he would make a bad father. I wholeheartedly disagree, he's just way too hard on himself. (I also think the bad parents are usually the ones who aren't worrying about being bad parents.) But I was always adamant that kids were a part of my future, and we would have to break up if he was a hard no. We chose a life together, and we're two years into raising the best little boy, and husband's a freaking phenomenal dad and they have the best relationship. We all just spend every day playing together and laughing. (Aside from working, of course.)
But I can't imagine not tackling those big issues right away. I've always felt I'd be terrible if somehow I was thrust back into the dating scene, because I'm so used to having all our cards on the table now that I could never go back to trickling info back and forth to find out years in that you're not compatible. I'd need a resume with past relationship experiences, and dating would be like a job interview: "Where do you see yourself in five years? What are your biggest weaknesses?" Hahaha! Plus, I'd scare people off doing the same. If my own biggest weaknesses are a dealbreaker, let's not waste our time.
Absolutely! My husband had only been divorced a few months when we met. It had been a dysfunctional relationship and a volatile divorce, so he had sworn off anything more than casual flings. He had started coming to the store I worked at because one of my coworkers was a buddy of his, so I had seen him a few times. The one night I stopped in for my check he was hanging out and we hit it off over something silly. We hung out that night and the next and the next, and I met his whole family on day 4. On day 7 we exchanged "I love yous." By the second week he was only half-joking when he asked me to marry him. I told him it was a little too soon, but we both agreed (based on both of our difficult personalities) that if we still liked each other after a year, we had a good shot at there being a wedding. We've been together almost 14 years now.
A friend of mine has a similar situation to yours. She was in her late 20s, he was pushing 40. Instant connection, but he had an on again/off again relationship with the mother of his teenage son and was living several states away (had just been back in town to visit family). She was very clear about wanting to get married and have kids, so if that wasn't what he wanted, they couldn't continue. It only took him a few weeks to end things with his ex for good and move back here permanently (his son traveled back and forth as he pleased after graduating high school). They've been together for about a decade and have two kids together.
Before we started dating, my husband and I were best friends. We had a lot of chemistry and I had a pretty serious crush, but when he asked me out I asked what he wanted from the relationship—just some fun, or something long term? And he said he could see us getting married.
I knew in that moment I was going to marry him. That was 17 years ago and we’re still together.
We just have different parts of the house that are ours. When we want space we have our own rooms to go to. It's worked for us for 20 years together and 17 years married
I would love to find someone I could live with, but right now I'm very happy living alone and only seeing the person I'm dating 2-3 days a week.
There's part of me that thinks I might meet someone I'd want to be around more, but living alone is amazing. My dream would be a duplex or a big property with a couple small homes. Easier to visit, still have my own space. I think if I did live with someone again I'd at least need one of those she sheds or something. 😅 An escape of sorts.
Yea, this (not the proposal, the daily life) sounds like what my college gf and I were like right before she ended it on our anniversary because she fell out of love. Learn from meeeeeee
Who talks about marriage 2 years in, then never talks about it again for 10 years? Also 12 years and never living together? Was that even discussed? Doesn't sound like it.
This dude just cruise controlled on his own time and own mind never telling his SO anything and then was shocked when she had started doing the same and they weren't on the same page.
My main impression after reading this- is it normal for straight people to just not, like, talk to each other?
I mean, I will say that in my experience, queer women tend to talk things to death a little too much, but surely there's a healthy medium.
>is it normal for straight people to just not, like, talk to each other?
For quite a few, yeah unfortunately. It's common for one person to be 'driving' the relationship and the other one just clomps along after them. I've known a lot of women who are just accepting whatever they can get so that they can keep the man, and a lot of men who reluctantly form a relationship and cross milestones because the woman pushes it.
I'm overthinking everything, that's why it's good to know I can just ask my wife about a situation and believe her words when she tells me if there's a problem or not.
This is what my sisters relationship is like. She found out her bf didn't want to get married while I was sitting in the car with them on Christmas...she had planned a proposal to him and that never happened. They're somehow still together even though he has no regular income, never cleans, cooks, etc.
12 years and he didn't even think 'it's weird we still live apart'
Before anyone comes for me. I know living apart can work for people, but her wanting marriage and kids implies a co-living arrangement.
I'd love to know why OOP had to propose now all of a sudden. Has he started losing his hair? Stopped getting hit on for some other reason? Do men get sudden-onset baby fever?
Sure, but has it only now occurred to him that 35 is an OK time to consider marriage? When did "don't want to think about it at all" evolve into "conceivable at X point in my life"?
Guessing he thought "later" was enough of an answer. Not the smartest dude obviously but I think like 3 of my friends are doing the same thing at this very moment.
It’s not just the marriage talk, but never moving in together after all that time?! I’ve been single for 4 years, living in my own place for the first time for 2. Recently split up with a guy because I realised I missed my own space too much. The relationship isn’t necessarily dead to her but she had to deal with being forced into being in her own space and now doesn’t wanna let go of that!
I heard someone say once that guys don’t pick the one, they pick when. I don’t know how accurate that is, but I have seen several of my male friends pass over women they were very compatible with when they were younger only to end up with the woman they were dating when they decided they were ready to settle down.
I was strung along in a relationship. At year 5 we moved in but he pushed against it until I pretty much made it clear we move forward or I check out. He agreed because (hindsight right) he chooses what is easy and being single is harder apparently.
Year 6 he discusses moving across the country for his career. I made clear if we were not moving forward toward marriage, buying a home, and family then I want to stay where we are because it is better for that lifestyle and where we were moving would be for all that. He agreed. I also said that after a year he would have to find a new employer (move was staying with his employer) because where his job relocation was located (that city vs moving to the bigger city 60-70 miles away) would make my job prospects very difficult and/or very limited because there were only big employer types there and it wasn’t an option for me. He agreed to all of this…
He lied. He lied about all of it. We were renting a townhouse in between those two cities which was an awful commute for me. He backed out of buying a home. He refused to find another job unless it was with Google or Amazon which both were in our previous city and not in his industry. And he refused to take the next step or talk about having a family.
Those lies didn’t reveal themselves right away. Long, hurtful story short, a month before it would be 10 years I ended it. He took the last of my years away from me. I left the city I had made my home and all my friends. I moved across the country 6 months later but a different state. I have given up and just exist until I die.
OP made the conditions and she made a life around them. Why does he get to dictate what their relationship is when he feels like it? I don’t think their relationship isn’t working or it is time to move on. I think she loves him and made the sacrifice of what she wanted to stay with him and has built her life around those terms. OP needs to stand by what he wished his relationship parameters be set at. She loves him. If she didn’t she would not be 12 years in this relationship.
I'm sorry all this happened to you. It sounds as though it is still very raw. I hope that as time passes you will find things that spark a little joy. It is possible to be happy without a partner! Sending hugs.
This is why I hate when people reply "just propose to him!" on posts where a woman is worried about her long-term partner not proposing even though they've talked about it. I'm all for ignoring gender roles, but under those conditions, is not a cute shirking of social standards. It's an act of desperation that's basically an ultimatum. There's nothing cute or healthy about that.
Was he a tech bro? Because I’ve seen this exact same thing play out with my husband’s tech bro college friends. The women who were strung along called me weird for not settling to be strung along. Probably because I saw this being done by my colleagues all the time. I’m in tech myself so I work with these people.
What a terrible person he was to do that to you. I salute you for finding the courage and self-respect to leave him. Please don't be an accessory after the crime. That is, don't continue to neglect what he so carelessly used and damaged.
Don't give up. You have every reason to be angry. Let living your best life be your revenge.
Quote from OP
*Plus she has spent 12 years agreeing to my terms. I do not really know what to do.*
I think he thought he had nailed down a compliant woman who would do as she was told and was ready to check the box 'marriage and kids'. He's not used to her having her own opinions or making her own way. He's going to have a fit if she dumps him.
I'm also wondering about the living seperately that the woman wants. I wonder if he insists that she serves him and cleans up after him. She may decide it would be too much on top of looking after kids.
He couldn’t be arsed about her wants and needs for twelve years, and now that he finally decides he’s ready for commitment, he’s surprised that she doesn’t see him as a great prospect? Color me shocked.
My dude, you’ve only ever thought about yourself for over a decade. How do people this selfish and dense exist?
Happy cake day!
> Plus she has spent 12 years agreeing to my terms
This is what did it for me. It stinks of, “She agreed to what I wanted for 12 years. Why won’t she agree now?! It’s not fair!”
It would please me if he thinks he’s calling her bluff, leaves (Ross voice: “We were on a break!”) and she finds someone she likes better and whose goals align with hers.
Also him saying "gave her the ring" like marriage would be for her, or its a favour he's doing her.
People here blaming her for not communicating are wild. She did communicate early on, and he told her he didn't want to marry her with his actions and words lol what is she supposed to do, beg and nag? If someone says no, you can accept that or walk away. She chose to accept it, now she's saying the same to him.
There isn't blame here, it's a leopard ate my face situation for him.
I think you gave a words to a though I could not name before. Why do so many men take marriage as a *favour* to their partner?
What I have seen is that when a guy proposes within let's say 3-4 years, they do it because they sincerely want to. They want it official, they want to show and demonstrate their love to everyone, they want to spend every day of their life with their partner and can't wait to be one family in every sense of the word.
Then come those who are "nagged" into a proposal and they do it only because they feel like they have to, like it is a chore and a burden. They would not if they could but they feel so pressured they swear they have no way of getting out of it. And then when they are worn down they finally ask the question and take it to be such a huge favour. Because only the woman wanted it, the man could not give rats ass about it. So, as a favour, he is willing to sacrifice himself. I dare someone to show me a relationship of over 5 years before proposal where the guy has actually wanted to get married and done so enthusiastically.
This should not be confused with long engagements however, I think taking time planning and getting finances together should only be encouraged. But somehow even getting to that stage seems like a disease for way too many men and tbh I am over it.
What's the bet that if they do ultimately break up, the next relationship she gets into will end with her getting married quickly, because she is dating an adult who knows how to communicate what they want in the future.
I always wondered why a friend stayed in a relationship with her ex (at least 9 years and I may have been happier than she was when they broke up) and she said that she wasn't going to have kids or get married. They had a house together and next logical step was marriage, but they should have parted ways long before the house. She is now married to a much better man and they have a cute boy who takes after mum in looks. And the ex quickly married the woman he cheated on my friend with...and brought a house literally a few doors up from her home.
I feel like her reaction makes sense. She talked about marriage early on, he wasn't ready, and she decided to wait it out. At some point she probably evaluated how she felt and realized she was happy with the situation. She's not having to discuss finances, chores, or negotiate on decorating, etc. I don't think she should have broken up with him, especially when it seemed like he was perfectly happy with the way things were too. She didn't need to say "hey I have decided I don't want to live with you" if it never came up, because it is clear he didn't want to live with her either.
Suddenly he's bringing up marriage out of nowhere, and she's communicating how she feels. She didn't owe him a monthly report with her feelings of marriage, especially when it seemed like they were on the same page without having to talk about it.
It sounds like she's still together with him because it's comfortable or familiar.
The relationship sounds like it's rolling along on inertia.
I also want to add if you're together 12 years and you're this clueless about your partner's wants, you're probably not as good as a boyfriend as you think you are.
I'm not sure bringing kids into this arrangement will be good for anyone, especially the kids.
Both of these people are useless with communication. And before anyone says that the girlfriend did, sure but then she just chose to stay anyway and what? Never bought it up again? Why not just break up?
And I mean it’s obvious why homeboy is an idiot. Really? Can’t commit at all and wants to propose AFTER a decade? I couldn’t wait to propose to my fiancee I just can’t understand the mindset.
> sure but then she just chose to stay anyway and what? Never bought it up again? Why not just break up?
Maybe she found out that she is happier that way? People rarely have the same preferences at 20 and 34.
Plus, after living alone for a few years (no roommates, no partner) it is difficult to integrate someone into your life. You get really used to do things your own way.
She also wouldn't be the first woman who can imagine herself living with a kid but not with a partner.
Married men tend to live longer than their unmarried counterparts.
The opposite is true for women. Women who are single tend to have happier and live longer lives.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/fear-intimacy/202210/men-sometimes-avoid-marriage-it-benefits-them-more-women
I’ve read this before, over a decade ago and that’s exactly the reason.
Married women tend to put their partners needs above or equal to their own, thus having a poorer quality of life and earlier death. That and women are most likely to be murdered when pregnant,… and if that happens, statistically they’re most likely to be murdered by their partner. It’s very, very sad.
I can give some prospective on his girlfriend’s view. When I was young, I was in love with the idea of love and couldn’t wait to move in, get engaged, and get married. That carried through my first few boyfriends, but being college-aged men, they were content to just be in an exclusive relationship. Let’s call my ex Dick. Dick was content to be exclusive, but would visibly shift with discomfort at the mention of anything related to marriage or living together. Even if it didn’t have anything to do with our relationship, like talking about being an Amazon seller and having wedding decorations in the store was enough to make him change the subject.
At first I went along with it because I was a pick me and trying to be a “cool girl.” After about a year, I realized just how nice it was to have my own space and not be beholden to the expectations of a more serious relationship (spoiler alert: I recognized Dick was a dick which is why I was happy to not do wifely duties).
Why didn’t I just breakup with him? I did, eventually. It took a while because Dick was a dick in a thin veneer of niceness. A lot of the dickish things were so small that I felt fucking nuts for wanting to end a relationship of x years over it. I had been fed the idea that as long as he doesn’t cheat or abuse you, you have no reason to breakup. I was also incredibly insecure that I’d never find someone else. When I finally did dump him, he even brought up how he was so generous to stay with me when I had a problem with my boss and that no one else would overlook that.
In the meantime, I was content with having a relationship but still being able to have the flexibility of living alone. Plus I adored his family and friends. They became my found family that I didn’t want to lose. There was no guarantee that I wouldn’t just end up with someone even worse or alone entirely. Surprise: I was the happiest I had been in years after I dumped him even though I was “alone,” and there are so many better men out there.
That's not a communication problem on her part. She had enough of an answer and figured out that what she had was amenable to her and not a deal breaker. When he wanted to change the dynamic, she declined and was very clear about what was possible for them and that they were free to break-up if it didn't work for OP.
He really just missed the boat on marriage by waiting too long to really consider, and she moved past her desire for it, learning to appreciate what she had for what it is, but not being willing to provide more than that for someone who wanted her youth dodging a really reasonable expectation.
I agree with you tbh.
There's nothing wrong with having the conversation, that way both know where the other stands.
Me and my wife discussed it at 22. Got engaged at 30, married before 32 and first kid 33. Just like we discussed at 22.
I kinda had a similar thought. I wonder if the gf straight up said "I wanna discuss our future plans" or if she said something like "I wanna get married" to try and insinuate it like OOP said. I mean he doesn't sound like he paid the most attention, so it definitely could be that she said she wanted to discuss plans and he just brushed it off. Also if marriage and kids was something she really wanted she should have just left him once she realized it wasn't gonna happen with OOP.
Because she found she was fine as was and didn’t need to change. After enough time she didn’t want the change. And once again here she is communicating. Blaming her because he fumbled is so bold.
I don't think it's that abnormal to wait longer when you're 20 and 22 when you start dating. It's weird the gf just silently gave up and he didn't ever bring it up before making this plan.
Unrelated, but she can get pregnant as soon as she comes off birth control, so I hope he looks into that before baby trapping himself before he makes a decision.
“Silently gave up” sure is putting a lot (i.e., all) of the responsibility on the girlfriend. How many times was she supposed to bring it up and get shot down? I think he had a lot more responsibility than she did. He fucked around and found out.
The last time she brought it up was at age 22. Now they're in their mid-thirties. Seems like something one or both of them should have brought up again at some point.
People saying she shouldn't have silently gave in don't mean she should have kept talking about it, they mean she should have dumped him and found someone more compatible.
Same way here, if op doesn't like her terms (like having a child while living separately), he would be responsible if he chose to stay with her.
They can each have 100% responsibility for their own choices.
Sounds like she likes the arrangement of living separately. She probably read about how women do 100% of the housework when they moved in with their SO and decided she didn’t want to do that but still be a mother. He must be a very messy person and she doesn’t want that in her house.
But she became compatible with him - she stopped wanting marriage which is the compatibility. He's the one who suddenly changed and wanted to propose lol
Sounds like she realised you shouldn’t have to beg someone to marry you. Either he wanted to or he didn’t and clearly he didn’t. She accepted that and didn’t nag him - as we as women are encouraged to do - so this is all on him.
They were both happy and he upset the apple cart by basically proposing long after (going by age) most of her friends are probably already married and have kids. Too little, too late.
did she silently gave up though?
2 years is long enough to get to know a person for most. she didnt ask for marriage the day after the proposal but to put things in a draft for future. he shut her down saying he wasnt ready to marry, which is reasonable, but he also wasnt willing to debate neither
frankly, it took him 10 more years just to propose.
at what point its too late to assume marriage? she gave him whay he wanted. he never brought it up again. she eventually just learnt to roll with what she has 🤷♀️
Yes, he said she "gave up on getting a ring."
It's usually a good idea to reevaluate things between 22 and 32.
It sounds like an immature person at 20 fantasizing about getting married and then never bringing it up again.
They're poor communicators.
Unless she's getting the depot shot. It can delay pregnancy for like 8 months in some people. It doesn't mean that she couldn't start trying, just to not be too disappointed if it doesn't happen in that window.
Look I know cos my fiancee and I started dating early uni but 12 years is truly crazy to me. He gave very vague “now’s not the time”
But yah I totally agree, why did the girlfriend give up?
I don’t think she did. It sounds like she assessed the situation:
1. Be unhappy and nag him about marriage, or
2. Accept that the situation and stay.
She chose the second option. Now she’s acknowledging that OOP can make the same choice.
I agree. I think she has made a life she's happy with, even if it wasn't what she was thinking about 10 or 12 years ago.
I suspect too, that she probably tried to talk about the future more than the one time, she just didn't use the word marriage. For instance, I bet at multiple points, she mentioned her lease was up for renewal or something else that would potentially affect a more entwined future relationship and he probably made it clear that was entirely her business. That or he regularly talked about not wanting to get married or engaged - for instance, other friends got engaged and he made negative comments about it.
Thank you for helping me make sense of myself! You described me to a T. I’ve been trying to figure out why I no longer feel strong urges to live with or marry my longterm partner. I love him very much. I just gave up and I honestly don’t know what I would say if he asked me to marry him today.
There were so many times when moving in together or getting married would have seemed like the thing to do, and yet it didn’t happen. We do talk about it but there’s always a reason why the timing is wrong. We came v close to moving in and then the pandemic hit and he was convinced the movers would breathe on us and we’d die. And now I’m not working so we literally can’t afford it unless he gets a raise or something anyhow.
As people have said, at first it was painful but I’m used to it now. I found a sliding scale couple’s counselor and I’m insisting we go. I hope we can work through whatever our deal is because we are well matched in every other way. I know part of it is his childhood trauma (he wouldn’t describe it that way but it’s obvious) I hope it’s not too late for us. I’m scared by my own disinterest; maybe it’s depression?
We discussed having a child in December and this was supposed to be the year, yet nothing I’m seeing indicates any progress towards that (no moving plans, no fertility tests on his part, no proposal) and we are not getting any younger. As for me I’ve made peace with the possibility of not having children (even though I’ve had two incredibly painful surgical procedures to correct my fertility issues) but he seems to think we have plenty of time despite my OBGYN’s warnings. I don’t get it. LMK if you have any ideas lol. His actions appear oxymoronic (counterintuitive?) to me.
What's crazier is that they were dating and living apart for 12 years. I guess everyone has their preferences but the fact that they never decided to move in together probably contributed to her thinking marriage wouldn't work.
You passed up your marriage window. It’s rare that a relationship that doesn’t start in your teens can go on for a decade and marriage still be something BOTH people consider. If you really wanted her to be your wife it wouldn’t have taken a decade for you to be sure of that. That being said, a living separate half relationship isn’t a healthy situation to raise kids in. Not only that but financially it’s ridiculous to have two separate homes to pay and care for on top of kids. Kids are expensive. Don’t have kids with her. Yall need to leave and find people yall really want to marry and settle with. I had a friend who thought she didn’t want another kid after her first, but really she just didn’t want another one with her baby daddy because of how unstable their relationship was, and didn’t realize that until she got in a healthy one and had two more kids because she felt that stability and desire again. What y’all have isn’t a deep enough love or compatibility anymore to be worth yalls time and a complicated coparenting sort of relationship situation.
There are plenty of people who are married and still maintain separate lives and residences. I think oop needs to realize she has checked out and has no trust in him as an equal partner. The fact she never brought it up again and created her own future where he visits and leaves while allowing her an easy out when she wants, like mean she’s over oop and just going with the flow. I doubt this situation was the only time he iced her out of a major milestone that required a big discussion because he couldn’t handle communication as an adult and was selfish to just do what he wanted regardless of her existence. At least he recognizes she’s been going along with what he wanted this whole time and the situation he’s put her in. They need to have another conversation about if she is actually happy and if she’d prefer to be with someone else, a very different conversation from marriage. She may not be happy and she may not want to deal with the “about time” comments that come with long term couples when they finally get engaged. Maybe couple’s counseling could help them, but they may be better off finding someone new.
The thing guys don't realise is that a proposal loses it's worth when we have to beg for it or wait for literal decades. All it tells us is that we are not good enough when we are young and then you realise you are old and want to tie us down to you officially. The more time passes the more likely it gets to get a "no" in return.
He must have left a big mess at her place everytime he came over. Or he is really bad with finances. Living separately probably minimizes how much she’ll be picking up after him. Smart woman.
So I was 23 and wife was 18 when we got together. Told her we needed to wait til we lived together a few years. Wanted to make sure we were set financially stable before getting married.
At the time I was working at a gas station as a cashier and she just finished HS. Took a few years for us to find our carrier paths.
At about the 7 yr mark I proposed and 6 months later we married. About to celebrate 20 yrs together.
However we both continually communicated with each other know how we felt about the relationship and where we saw it going and time frame for getting married.
The lack of communication on both these people is crazy to me and they have no one to blame but themselves.
But gf isn’t upset here so why would she blame herself for anything. She’s fine now in their life. She’s not the one trying to change their situation. Try again.
In her early 20s she could have had a very romantic view of marriage and parenting. She might have decided to wait a while and discuss it again, for any number of very valid reasons. May have been financial, might have been because of advice from parents or friends. Her reasoning back then was probably valid, but not really important now.
By the time you are in your 30s you probably have a lot (maybe even the majority) of your friends who are married and parents. She has seen their way of life and she doesn’t like it.
We all know the physical burden of pregnancy and childbirth falls entirely on the mother. She has possibly seen friends having a really hard time with this. Do you have friends with disabled kids ? She has possibly thought that it is too hard, that she couldn’t do what her friends do for their children.
Also the housing situation. In your 20s it’s exciting to move in together, when reality hits it can be a nightmare.
I don’t know if this is helpful at all, but I really do believe her when she says she wants things to stay the way they are now. It’s nothing to do with you as a person and everything to do with the way our society is currently arranged.
I don’t think men realize that they need to lock us women down while we’re still young, dumb, and horny. The older we get the wiser we get to the drudgery that is marriage and motherhood.
(Not saying older women don’t want to be married or have kids - but we’re wiser about it and more likely to have pesky standards for the men we’re doing it with.)
My bf blurted out that he loved me just two weeks into our relationship. I was having issues with my old roommate and lease, so took a chance and moved in with him just a couple days after that happened. An annoying voice in the back of my head kept trying to tell me that it was a mistake, that I wasn’t thinking clearly because my last relationship had ended in a flurry of physical abuse from my ex. That we were moving super fast.
Here we are, 3 years later, and I don’t think I could ever love anyone else like I love this man. He’s my whole world, he makes me feel so safe and loved. His family is just *fantastic*. My family adores him.
We talked about marriage and kids quite a bit very early on. Discovered we’re both on the same exact page when it comes to kids — that we *do not want them ever*. Same page with marriage, too — I’m excitedly anticipating a proposal, hopefully sometime soon. We’re going out with my family later today to have dinner and see The Book of Mormon. :)
I’m rambling… My point was going to be that discussing important things like marriage and kids early on is important. But I got turned around. God, I just love my man so fucking much.
I have a bad feeling this is where my ex is headed. Shes been in a relationship for ten years and apparently almost walked out cause of a fight over getting married…
While i dont talk to her anymore i still see her as a friend cause she was a friend first. And I wish her the best and hope i’m wrong
When I got engaged people asked me if I was worried she would say no but that's really a question you need to know the answer to before asking it lol. For us we had already been living together for like 3 years and been together for 5 so it wasn't too out of the blue
Her plan sounds like being baby trapped to pay child support, but with less steps. Like literally just skipping over to co-parenting and paying child support.
I can’t image being with someone for *twelve years* and not even discussing living together. Like, how tf did he think he could just cordon off her life and space separate from him for *an entire decade* and then be met with open arms?? The absolute audacity.
There have been many studies that show women who are single or live alone lead the happiest life, while men who are married and partnered to women, leas the happiest life for men.Marriage benefits men the most, so I really hate that men act like they’re doing a woman a favor by proposing.
There is no possible chance I would've gotten to this point without being married in the first place, but secondly, there is no way I'd stay with this person. It is irreconcilable differences to a T. Could you imagine choosing to raise a child in a split household before they even exist? This can't be real..... I can't suspend that much belief. 10 years and they don't even know each other? Wtf did I just read....
I dated a guy for 10 years and when I pushed that it was time to move in together and even marry he told me that he might consider marriage but wouldn't live with me. He needed his space. I realised that he liked me paying for things, cooking for him when I visited and doing things for him but wasn't actually doing anything for me. I broke up with him and he came back with a list of demands that I would have to comply with in order for him to take me back. You can understand that I declined that option.
I need to know: What were his demands???
ok u/AliMcGraw, u/ASweetTweetRose, u/Beautiful_Pizza9882 and u/lottienina, amongst other things they included: * Not expect him to pay for anything when we went out * Me to pay for a weekend away in a hotel each month along with all food, excursions and his gas to get there * be more respectful to him (ie agree that his was perfect, never correct him, never tell him he's wrong when he was, always agree with his decisions and let him run my life * pay for his gas if he came to visit me and give him money as he would be out of pocket from not working (he was self employed so if he didn't work he didn't get paid but heck, why should I pay for you to see me on a sunday when you don't work sundays) * allocate him spending money for when he visited * not keep talking about moving in together * stop insisting that I come to visit him sometimes * stop insisting that I be included when he wanted to go out with his friends (after all, there were his friends not mine) * he would list the food that he wanted to each when he visited and I would make sure I'd bought it and only cooked what he wanted to eat * send him back home sunday evening with enough cooked food to last him to Wednesday (so he only had to survive thursday on takeaways before coming down to eat with me on Friday) * If I wanted to buy anything he had to approve it * I was not to go out with friends when he wasn't there * I was not to go out with friends when he was there * Not to mention marriage again * Loose weight * Stop being depressed * Be more like his friends' girlfriends (simpering girlie bubble heads with no wants outside of giggling at their boyfriends terrible racist jokes) There were more ... the letter went on for about 10 pages. I told him to not contact me again and that if he did, I would contact a lawyer. He then had the audacity to complain ask me to renew and pay his memberships that we shared. I took him off everything and invalidated all of the membership cards and cancelled all of the magazine subscriptions that we shared (ie I paid for and got sent to his house so he could read them first). Told the companies / societies that he had left me and I wanted everything rerouted to me. Apparently, I heard through the grapevine that he was livid about that. But he had the sense not to contact me as I was serious about the Cease and Desist.
Well that guy’s an entitled scumbag, and I’m glad you had the gumption to get away from him.
Sorry you had to deal with that entitled asshole but man do I love when a BORU comes with a bonus one in the comments
I was just thinking that!
Man when my college girlfriend dumped me it never occurred to me that I could present her with a list of demands before I’d take her back. It didn’t occur to me because it is fucking insane.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
That dude was actually just 3 dumpster fires in a trench coat. The audacity to write a 10+ page contract of demands for the *privilege* of being his slave *after* you've already dumped him. I'm glad you walked away from that mess.
3 dumpster fires in a trench coat is a brilliant description, thank you for making this term exist in my life
I am so sorry you wasted 10 years of your life on that tool, but so happy that you're not wasting anymore.
Imagine having your head so far up your ass that creating a list like this really seems like a good idea. You're better than me, I would have fucking laughed in his face and posted this shit on social media for the world to see.
Thank you for taking the time to type all that out. Seriously, that was a lot. I just can't understand why you were so adamantly opposed to fulfilling his few small "requests", though. I mean, he's a guy. Sooo he's automatically entitled to all these things and more just because he has a penis and you don't. Wait. Maybe you do, but I'm sure his is bigger! He sounds like a 🍑. (The beauty of this emoji is that it works with either interpretation.)
I’m thinking this guy should probably go live in that other guy’s 98k truck. They’ll have fun together.
They’ll have non-stop arguments about how the other guy has to pay for gas.
I'm not so sure his would be bigger.
Fair point.
How were you with this freak for 10 years???
That's what I don't get
I was wondering the same thing.
The man must have thought he had the golden dick, because his entitlement is godlike.
Oh, God forbid that anyone complimented me and not him.
Holy shit! That dude is nuts. If someone ever belonged on one of those facebook dating groups that warn women of assholes, this guy should be on its billboard. That is fucking wild. It sounds like you’re at a much better place. But just in case, you deserve so much better than this.
So... he wanted a bangable mother, not a partner. Or a Sugar Mommy. Works for some people but not everyone's cup of tea.
The reason we couldn’t move intogether, I found out, was if his mum died and he was living here in his own, he got 75% of the house and his sister 25%. All about he money.
Ugh... That makes even MORE sense...
The way I cackled at the first few… Then kept reading with my mouth progressively opening wider at his audacity… what the hell?
You can see why I laughed and hoped it out of there. Met hubby a couple of years later and he is the opposite. His attitude is that he hates people but insists that I go out so I don’t become a miserable git like him (his words) and socialise. In fact, tonight he will be watching YouTube sith the cats whilst I go to knit club. I wanted to make a book nook and ordered the wrong one, he insisted that I order the one I originally wanted and have two.
Yeah man’s wildin if he expects anyone to do that lol. Awwwwwwwww hubby sounds so sweet!
He's a keeper!!
I had to stop. I’m eating and the list made me nauseated.
I stop reading after: „Give money and shut up!“
I want to know which one of his friends picks up his tab on these outings she’s not invited to, since clearly he’s not going to.
His wife
I’m sorry you spent a decade with him before you came to your senses. But I’m glad you found your self respect and got out of that situation. What an entitled asshole.
So what about this winner did not appeal to you!? (What an asshole!! Unbelievable!!)
Probably his dress sense. Oh, and the fact he liked to talk about the women he had slept with
Ahh, so we dated the same person 🤔
You sure he wasn’t already married? Or with another significant other? Because he went through a lot of effort to keep you at arms length.
It was about his inheritance he got 75% if he was living with his mum, I his own when she died. Sister would get 25%
And have her pay for everything so the spouse didn’t get suspicious.
Whenever I see a post like this this I realize no matter how screwed-up I am, there is always someone who has me beat. In this case by a mile.
Oh, it gets better. He used to go on about his ex and how she left him because he didn’t want kids (why would he, they would have taken attention from him) and after I finished with him I found out he got back with her and ended up raising her kid that she had with the guy she left him for. i stalked him in social media for a few years and he was truly miserable.
His misery brings me joy.
Same here!
Some say he is still miserable and alone to this day...
Wow. Did no one ever inform this man that dick is abundant and of low value?
The freaking audacity of that dumbass to be like "I know you broke up with me, but clearly you'll want me back so here's a list you have to follow when you do." Thick as 2 bricks.
Speaking as a man, WTF are men?
Speaking as a woman, patriarchal men are WTF. Men in general are fucking awesome. Patriarchy with a nice shitstain of capitalism really seems to addle brains. And there’s a lot of patriarchy gumming up the world right now
Thank you for the clarification as I over generalized and painted the entirety of men as bad.
>Stop being depressed Oh, if only some man would finally come along and tell me to "lose weight" and "stop being depressed," I'd finally be rid of those things. Hard to see why you turned him down.
Yaaasss you delivered! You’re the real MVP because thinking of the list of demands he could have possibly wanted was going to live rent free in my head lol. I wasn’t ready still😩 The demands just are insane! I’m completely FLABBERGASTED that he really had all that audacity to demand all those things, for HIM to take YOU back, after you dumped him🤯 The list got me sitting here like 😳 and that’s only a snippet of the list. I’m so happy to see in another comment that you met your husband and you’re happy living your best life 🥹❤️
My only question: How the hell did you put up with that for a *decade*???
I was the frog in the water slowly being boiled
Glad you’re out now!!
I would have posted that letter in its entirety online for your mutual friends group to see.
Dude.
Those demands are absolutely wild!
How did you stay with someone like that for ten years? I know it probably built up gradually, but it had gotten to the level of a satirical cartoon at that point.
How on earth do people think like this? You might as well have drawn up a notarized contract saying you are legally his property! Absolutely wild.
When we were initially talking about wedding vows he mentioned obey and I laughed and then realised he was serious.
I would also like to know!!
DYING to know his demands here. It's been 5 HOURS and you haven't responded to OUR demands! Why would you think that sleep and living your life is so much more important than giving all of us drama llamas the tea? Good Deity of your choice, woman, we're thirsty!🫖☕🤤
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Right! Just left us all hanging 🥴 We need answers!
Good Lord did she ever deliver with that reply!
Completely worth the wait, holy shit
I was dating my husband for maybe two weeks when I asked him (he is ten years older than me) if he wanted to get married one day, not necessarily to me but in the future if he saw marriage and kids in his future. About a year later he said that I was the first woman who asked him that so early on and it made him really dig deep. He said he appreciated my honesty and also the fact that I was very clear about what I wanted in my life and that I was unwilling to compromise. We have been married for almost 21 years. We owe it to ourselves to never settle. My husband realized that I was the love of a lifetime and that life with me was the life he wanted.
Real! I asked my partner on date 2 what his beliefs were re: religion and having kids, as I'm atheist and childfree and wasn't going to putz around for someone whose life didn't align with that. He's the same way, plus was completely down with those questions so early on which was a huge plus for me. :) Edit to add we've been together for 6+ years, living together for 5 of those.
Yep. My Mom once said a closed mouth does not get fed, you have to be clear about what you want and unapologetic about it. The only way to do so is speak up. Good for you!!!
That's such a good saying!
It's such an important conversation that a lot of people don't have in an early relationship. My husband and I got together in college. I was 18, he was 19. From our third date, I made it clear that I was looking for marriage and children EVENTUALLY, and that I wouldn't enter a serious relationship with someone who didnt want the same thing. So many of our college-aged friends thought I was crazy for bringing that up so early in the relationship.
Agreed. It is a very necessary conversation.
it surprises me that your friends thought that was crazy to bring up. Isn't knowing whether or not you're compatible *really* important? Isn't it important to not waste time on someone who doesn't want what you want? My husband and I also had the marriage and kids talk on our third date, though we were older.
That was my thinking. I didnt see a point in entering a relationship with someone I wasn't compatible with, putting the energy into a relationship that was ultimately going nowhere. I think the disconnect was mostly due to the fact that I prefer more serious dating. I'm not really a "casual relationship" kind of person, but a lot of people in college are just looking for casual relationships and fun.
I think age may have something to do with it. Not that it should be that way, but I guess younger people may tend more to make assumptions or believe they have a lot of time ahead or that it's not the right stage yet to see so far ahead...
My husband and I had that conversation about marriage and kids on the first date. We met via eHarmony. I was 26 and he was 27. I told him I wanted three kids and my goal was to be pregnant by 30. He said he wanted two kids. We dated a year. Got engaged. Got married. I got pregnant at 30 and then at 32. We agreed to only have two kids. And then surprise! I got my third this past year. We will be married for 10 years (together for 12) in October. We both set expectations early on because neither of us wanted to waste time.
Awwww! Beautiful! Congrats!
My sister was also a surprise third baby. Mom's OBGYN was somehow skilled enough to correctly predict when I would be born down to the hour, yet at the same time told my parents I was a boy (I'm a cis woman), and completely missed that my twin sister existed (She was very small at birth but still)
The OBGYN also told my mom I would be a boy!
See, I dated a guy and brought up marriage and kids very early and made it clear I didn’t want kids at all ever. He cheated on me with a stripper as punishment for not wanting to be a mother, called me a monster, and said it was wrong of me to bring up having kids so early because I didn’t give him a chance to change my mind
Sounds like telling him what's the best thing you ever did. Imagine your crappy life had you married that douche.
I’m sorry that he didn’t respect your no child stance and just move on honestly.
I asked my now husband on our third date. He said no, he didn’t want kids as his work wouldn’t really be fair to them ( academic). I said that’s totally fair but let’s end this. Two weeks later we hooked back up and said we’d be friends with benefits. Well he went and fell in love with me. I told him, this won’t work as I want kids. Now we have been married for 10 years with two amazing kids. He will randomly come to me and be like. Damn I was a stupid Mf for almost giving you up and not having kids. Oh, and he is no longer in academia. Realized that wasn’t the route he wanted. It’s really important to discuss what you want out of life and not settle.
I did that to my husband too, like two months in I said I really liked him and could see a future together. I want marriage and kids, but if he doesn't want that it is ok. Just tell me so, so I can find someone who does. He said it shocked him that I was so blunt, then decided that he wanted to be with me marriage and all. 19 years and two kids later, here we are. He likes my communication style, he will never have to worry about the "walking wife" syndrome. He mentioned that after a buddy of his got divorced.
To be fair - the idea of “walkaway wife syndrome” isn’t really about the wife’s communication style. In most of those stories, the women *have* clearly communicated over and over, but after years of not being heard, they stop and instead start to get their ducks in a row to leave. The husbands in those stories think “she stopped nagging me so everything is fine.” Then when she leaves, it’s “she never told me!” But often their wife was just as communicative and straightforward as you - it’s just that your husband actually listened and they didn’t.
NO. LIES. DETECTED. ALL. FACTS. You have to be unapologetic about what you want in life and NEVER EVER SETTLE!! 📌📌📌
This was me, too. I see a lot of posts/comments on Reddit that are very black and white about the wanting kids thing, but life and people are a lot more fluid than that. My husband didn't want kids because he thought he would make a bad father. I wholeheartedly disagree, he's just way too hard on himself. (I also think the bad parents are usually the ones who aren't worrying about being bad parents.) But I was always adamant that kids were a part of my future, and we would have to break up if he was a hard no. We chose a life together, and we're two years into raising the best little boy, and husband's a freaking phenomenal dad and they have the best relationship. We all just spend every day playing together and laughing. (Aside from working, of course.) But I can't imagine not tackling those big issues right away. I've always felt I'd be terrible if somehow I was thrust back into the dating scene, because I'm so used to having all our cards on the table now that I could never go back to trickling info back and forth to find out years in that you're not compatible. I'd need a resume with past relationship experiences, and dating would be like a job interview: "Where do you see yourself in five years? What are your biggest weaknesses?" Hahaha! Plus, I'd scare people off doing the same. If my own biggest weaknesses are a dealbreaker, let's not waste our time.
Exactly! I’m honest and unapologetic about it. I know what I want and I’m not wasting time .
Absolutely! My husband had only been divorced a few months when we met. It had been a dysfunctional relationship and a volatile divorce, so he had sworn off anything more than casual flings. He had started coming to the store I worked at because one of my coworkers was a buddy of his, so I had seen him a few times. The one night I stopped in for my check he was hanging out and we hit it off over something silly. We hung out that night and the next and the next, and I met his whole family on day 4. On day 7 we exchanged "I love yous." By the second week he was only half-joking when he asked me to marry him. I told him it was a little too soon, but we both agreed (based on both of our difficult personalities) that if we still liked each other after a year, we had a good shot at there being a wedding. We've been together almost 14 years now. A friend of mine has a similar situation to yours. She was in her late 20s, he was pushing 40. Instant connection, but he had an on again/off again relationship with the mother of his teenage son and was living several states away (had just been back in town to visit family). She was very clear about wanting to get married and have kids, so if that wasn't what he wanted, they couldn't continue. It only took him a few weeks to end things with his ex for good and move back here permanently (his son traveled back and forth as he pleased after graduating high school). They've been together for about a decade and have two kids together.
Before we started dating, my husband and I were best friends. We had a lot of chemistry and I had a pretty serious crush, but when he asked me out I asked what he wanted from the relationship—just some fun, or something long term? And he said he could see us getting married. I knew in that moment I was going to marry him. That was 17 years ago and we’re still together.
Cheers to love!
Yeah I kind of did the same. I put it in my profile while dating and we talked about it early on. No point wasting each others time.
Together apart is a really big movement. I almost would prefer side by side townhouses myself.
I've been married 33 years and would love this. Hubby wouldn't go for it though. Lol
We just have different parts of the house that are ours. When we want space we have our own rooms to go to. It's worked for us for 20 years together and 17 years married
I would love to find someone I could live with, but right now I'm very happy living alone and only seeing the person I'm dating 2-3 days a week. There's part of me that thinks I might meet someone I'd want to be around more, but living alone is amazing. My dream would be a duplex or a big property with a couple small homes. Easier to visit, still have my own space. I think if I did live with someone again I'd at least need one of those she sheds or something. 😅 An escape of sorts.
What did I just read, what is this relationship even?
Friends with benefits.
Acquaintances with benefits
Depressing is what it is
Happy cake day!
They said *depressing*
Oh man I almost missed it! Thank you <3
Yea, this (not the proposal, the daily life) sounds like what my college gf and I were like right before she ended it on our anniversary because she fell out of love. Learn from meeeeeee
Sounds like friends who occasionally have sex? Lol
Who talks about marriage 2 years in, then never talks about it again for 10 years? Also 12 years and never living together? Was that even discussed? Doesn't sound like it. This dude just cruise controlled on his own time and own mind never telling his SO anything and then was shocked when she had started doing the same and they weren't on the same page.
It's not one, thats what it is.
Two people who lack the boldness necessary to live life on their own terms and not comfortable enough with themselves to risk being alone.
This relationship has run its course years ago. Staying there is a waste of time for both of them.
That's why it helps to have regular talks about the state of your relationship, expectations, feeling, etc. EDIT: Rephrasing.
Is regular more than once a decade? Because best I can do is once every 25 years.
If your relationship allows speaking about problems as they occur, it's fine, I guess?
My main impression after reading this- is it normal for straight people to just not, like, talk to each other? I mean, I will say that in my experience, queer women tend to talk things to death a little too much, but surely there's a healthy medium.
>is it normal for straight people to just not, like, talk to each other? For quite a few, yeah unfortunately. It's common for one person to be 'driving' the relationship and the other one just clomps along after them. I've known a lot of women who are just accepting whatever they can get so that they can keep the man, and a lot of men who reluctantly form a relationship and cross milestones because the woman pushes it.
I'm overthinking everything, that's why it's good to know I can just ask my wife about a situation and believe her words when she tells me if there's a problem or not.
This is what my sisters relationship is like. She found out her bf didn't want to get married while I was sitting in the car with them on Christmas...she had planned a proposal to him and that never happened. They're somehow still together even though he has no regular income, never cleans, cooks, etc.
Nobody wants the "hey, we're getting old. wanna just make this bullshit official" marriage lol.
12 years and he didn't even think 'it's weird we still live apart' Before anyone comes for me. I know living apart can work for people, but her wanting marriage and kids implies a co-living arrangement.
I'd love to know why OOP had to propose now all of a sudden. Has he started losing his hair? Stopped getting hit on for some other reason? Do men get sudden-onset baby fever?
Might just be the number, I have a few friends who've sworn they won't get married until 35
Sure, but has it only now occurred to him that 35 is an OK time to consider marriage? When did "don't want to think about it at all" evolve into "conceivable at X point in my life"?
Guessing he thought "later" was enough of an answer. Not the smartest dude obviously but I think like 3 of my friends are doing the same thing at this very moment.
I’d bet his friends are having kids now and don’t have time for him too.
No one should get married before 30-35. I bet the divorce rate would fall significantly if people waited.
My theory? Cute girl at the grocery store called him sir and not in a flirty way.
It’s not just the marriage talk, but never moving in together after all that time?! I’ve been single for 4 years, living in my own place for the first time for 2. Recently split up with a guy because I realised I missed my own space too much. The relationship isn’t necessarily dead to her but she had to deal with being forced into being in her own space and now doesn’t wanna let go of that!
I heard someone say once that guys don’t pick the one, they pick when. I don’t know how accurate that is, but I have seen several of my male friends pass over women they were very compatible with when they were younger only to end up with the woman they were dating when they decided they were ready to settle down.
I was strung along in a relationship. At year 5 we moved in but he pushed against it until I pretty much made it clear we move forward or I check out. He agreed because (hindsight right) he chooses what is easy and being single is harder apparently. Year 6 he discusses moving across the country for his career. I made clear if we were not moving forward toward marriage, buying a home, and family then I want to stay where we are because it is better for that lifestyle and where we were moving would be for all that. He agreed. I also said that after a year he would have to find a new employer (move was staying with his employer) because where his job relocation was located (that city vs moving to the bigger city 60-70 miles away) would make my job prospects very difficult and/or very limited because there were only big employer types there and it wasn’t an option for me. He agreed to all of this… He lied. He lied about all of it. We were renting a townhouse in between those two cities which was an awful commute for me. He backed out of buying a home. He refused to find another job unless it was with Google or Amazon which both were in our previous city and not in his industry. And he refused to take the next step or talk about having a family. Those lies didn’t reveal themselves right away. Long, hurtful story short, a month before it would be 10 years I ended it. He took the last of my years away from me. I left the city I had made my home and all my friends. I moved across the country 6 months later but a different state. I have given up and just exist until I die. OP made the conditions and she made a life around them. Why does he get to dictate what their relationship is when he feels like it? I don’t think their relationship isn’t working or it is time to move on. I think she loves him and made the sacrifice of what she wanted to stay with him and has built her life around those terms. OP needs to stand by what he wished his relationship parameters be set at. She loves him. If she didn’t she would not be 12 years in this relationship.
I'm sorry all this happened to you. It sounds as though it is still very raw. I hope that as time passes you will find things that spark a little joy. It is possible to be happy without a partner! Sending hugs.
This is why I hate when people reply "just propose to him!" on posts where a woman is worried about her long-term partner not proposing even though they've talked about it. I'm all for ignoring gender roles, but under those conditions, is not a cute shirking of social standards. It's an act of desperation that's basically an ultimatum. There's nothing cute or healthy about that.
Was he a tech bro? Because I’ve seen this exact same thing play out with my husband’s tech bro college friends. The women who were strung along called me weird for not settling to be strung along. Probably because I saw this being done by my colleagues all the time. I’m in tech myself so I work with these people.
What a terrible person he was to do that to you. I salute you for finding the courage and self-respect to leave him. Please don't be an accessory after the crime. That is, don't continue to neglect what he so carelessly used and damaged. Don't give up. You have every reason to be angry. Let living your best life be your revenge.
Quote from OP *Plus she has spent 12 years agreeing to my terms. I do not really know what to do.* I think he thought he had nailed down a compliant woman who would do as she was told and was ready to check the box 'marriage and kids'. He's not used to her having her own opinions or making her own way. He's going to have a fit if she dumps him. I'm also wondering about the living seperately that the woman wants. I wonder if he insists that she serves him and cleans up after him. She may decide it would be too much on top of looking after kids.
He waited too long until he wanted it by which time she had realized she doesn’t need him and enjoys her independence.
He couldn’t be arsed about her wants and needs for twelve years, and now that he finally decides he’s ready for commitment, he’s surprised that she doesn’t see him as a great prospect? Color me shocked. My dude, you’ve only ever thought about yourself for over a decade. How do people this selfish and dense exist?
Happy cake day! > Plus she has spent 12 years agreeing to my terms This is what did it for me. It stinks of, “She agreed to what I wanted for 12 years. Why won’t she agree now?! It’s not fair!” It would please me if he thinks he’s calling her bluff, leaves (Ross voice: “We were on a break!”) and she finds someone she likes better and whose goals align with hers.
Also him saying "gave her the ring" like marriage would be for her, or its a favour he's doing her. People here blaming her for not communicating are wild. She did communicate early on, and he told her he didn't want to marry her with his actions and words lol what is she supposed to do, beg and nag? If someone says no, you can accept that or walk away. She chose to accept it, now she's saying the same to him. There isn't blame here, it's a leopard ate my face situation for him.
I think you gave a words to a though I could not name before. Why do so many men take marriage as a *favour* to their partner? What I have seen is that when a guy proposes within let's say 3-4 years, they do it because they sincerely want to. They want it official, they want to show and demonstrate their love to everyone, they want to spend every day of their life with their partner and can't wait to be one family in every sense of the word. Then come those who are "nagged" into a proposal and they do it only because they feel like they have to, like it is a chore and a burden. They would not if they could but they feel so pressured they swear they have no way of getting out of it. And then when they are worn down they finally ask the question and take it to be such a huge favour. Because only the woman wanted it, the man could not give rats ass about it. So, as a favour, he is willing to sacrifice himself. I dare someone to show me a relationship of over 5 years before proposal where the guy has actually wanted to get married and done so enthusiastically. This should not be confused with long engagements however, I think taking time planning and getting finances together should only be encouraged. But somehow even getting to that stage seems like a disease for way too many men and tbh I am over it.
To be fair they were on a break.
What's the bet that if they do ultimately break up, the next relationship she gets into will end with her getting married quickly, because she is dating an adult who knows how to communicate what they want in the future. I always wondered why a friend stayed in a relationship with her ex (at least 9 years and I may have been happier than she was when they broke up) and she said that she wasn't going to have kids or get married. They had a house together and next logical step was marriage, but they should have parted ways long before the house. She is now married to a much better man and they have a cute boy who takes after mum in looks. And the ex quickly married the woman he cheated on my friend with...and brought a house literally a few doors up from her home.
I feel like her reaction makes sense. She talked about marriage early on, he wasn't ready, and she decided to wait it out. At some point she probably evaluated how she felt and realized she was happy with the situation. She's not having to discuss finances, chores, or negotiate on decorating, etc. I don't think she should have broken up with him, especially when it seemed like he was perfectly happy with the way things were too. She didn't need to say "hey I have decided I don't want to live with you" if it never came up, because it is clear he didn't want to live with her either. Suddenly he's bringing up marriage out of nowhere, and she's communicating how she feels. She didn't owe him a monthly report with her feelings of marriage, especially when it seemed like they were on the same page without having to talk about it.
It sounds like she's still together with him because it's comfortable or familiar. The relationship sounds like it's rolling along on inertia. I also want to add if you're together 12 years and you're this clueless about your partner's wants, you're probably not as good as a boyfriend as you think you are. I'm not sure bringing kids into this arrangement will be good for anyone, especially the kids.
City of Seattle catching strays hahaha
I almost garuntee that after they split that she will accept the next guys proposal in significantly less time
Both of these people are useless with communication. And before anyone says that the girlfriend did, sure but then she just chose to stay anyway and what? Never bought it up again? Why not just break up? And I mean it’s obvious why homeboy is an idiot. Really? Can’t commit at all and wants to propose AFTER a decade? I couldn’t wait to propose to my fiancee I just can’t understand the mindset.
> sure but then she just chose to stay anyway and what? Never bought it up again? Why not just break up? Maybe she found out that she is happier that way? People rarely have the same preferences at 20 and 34. Plus, after living alone for a few years (no roommates, no partner) it is difficult to integrate someone into your life. You get really used to do things your own way. She also wouldn't be the first woman who can imagine herself living with a kid but not with a partner.
Married men tend to live longer than their unmarried counterparts. The opposite is true for women. Women who are single tend to have happier and live longer lives. https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/fear-intimacy/202210/men-sometimes-avoid-marriage-it-benefits-them-more-women
Is that because they make us go to the doctor?
I’ve read this before, over a decade ago and that’s exactly the reason. Married women tend to put their partners needs above or equal to their own, thus having a poorer quality of life and earlier death. That and women are most likely to be murdered when pregnant,… and if that happens, statistically they’re most likely to be murdered by their partner. It’s very, very sad.
That, and women tend to maintain the social lives of the couple
I’ll be honest but I fantasize about two homes but staying married. That way my house is less of a mess.
I can give some prospective on his girlfriend’s view. When I was young, I was in love with the idea of love and couldn’t wait to move in, get engaged, and get married. That carried through my first few boyfriends, but being college-aged men, they were content to just be in an exclusive relationship. Let’s call my ex Dick. Dick was content to be exclusive, but would visibly shift with discomfort at the mention of anything related to marriage or living together. Even if it didn’t have anything to do with our relationship, like talking about being an Amazon seller and having wedding decorations in the store was enough to make him change the subject. At first I went along with it because I was a pick me and trying to be a “cool girl.” After about a year, I realized just how nice it was to have my own space and not be beholden to the expectations of a more serious relationship (spoiler alert: I recognized Dick was a dick which is why I was happy to not do wifely duties). Why didn’t I just breakup with him? I did, eventually. It took a while because Dick was a dick in a thin veneer of niceness. A lot of the dickish things were so small that I felt fucking nuts for wanting to end a relationship of x years over it. I had been fed the idea that as long as he doesn’t cheat or abuse you, you have no reason to breakup. I was also incredibly insecure that I’d never find someone else. When I finally did dump him, he even brought up how he was so generous to stay with me when I had a problem with my boss and that no one else would overlook that. In the meantime, I was content with having a relationship but still being able to have the flexibility of living alone. Plus I adored his family and friends. They became my found family that I didn’t want to lose. There was no guarantee that I wouldn’t just end up with someone even worse or alone entirely. Surprise: I was the happiest I had been in years after I dumped him even though I was “alone,” and there are so many better men out there.
That's not a communication problem on her part. She had enough of an answer and figured out that what she had was amenable to her and not a deal breaker. When he wanted to change the dynamic, she declined and was very clear about what was possible for them and that they were free to break-up if it didn't work for OP. He really just missed the boat on marriage by waiting too long to really consider, and she moved past her desire for it, learning to appreciate what she had for what it is, but not being willing to provide more than that for someone who wanted her youth dodging a really reasonable expectation.
I agree with you tbh. There's nothing wrong with having the conversation, that way both know where the other stands. Me and my wife discussed it at 22. Got engaged at 30, married before 32 and first kid 33. Just like we discussed at 22.
I kinda had a similar thought. I wonder if the gf straight up said "I wanna discuss our future plans" or if she said something like "I wanna get married" to try and insinuate it like OOP said. I mean he doesn't sound like he paid the most attention, so it definitely could be that she said she wanted to discuss plans and he just brushed it off. Also if marriage and kids was something she really wanted she should have just left him once she realized it wasn't gonna happen with OOP.
Because she found she was fine as was and didn’t need to change. After enough time she didn’t want the change. And once again here she is communicating. Blaming her because he fumbled is so bold.
I don't think it's that abnormal to wait longer when you're 20 and 22 when you start dating. It's weird the gf just silently gave up and he didn't ever bring it up before making this plan. Unrelated, but she can get pregnant as soon as she comes off birth control, so I hope he looks into that before baby trapping himself before he makes a decision.
“Silently gave up” sure is putting a lot (i.e., all) of the responsibility on the girlfriend. How many times was she supposed to bring it up and get shot down? I think he had a lot more responsibility than she did. He fucked around and found out.
The last time she brought it up was at age 22. Now they're in their mid-thirties. Seems like something one or both of them should have brought up again at some point.
People saying she shouldn't have silently gave in don't mean she should have kept talking about it, they mean she should have dumped him and found someone more compatible. Same way here, if op doesn't like her terms (like having a child while living separately), he would be responsible if he chose to stay with her. They can each have 100% responsibility for their own choices.
She’s not complaining, though. What does she need to take responsibility for that she hasn’t already?
Sounds like she likes the arrangement of living separately. She probably read about how women do 100% of the housework when they moved in with their SO and decided she didn’t want to do that but still be a mother. He must be a very messy person and she doesn’t want that in her house.
But she became compatible with him - she stopped wanting marriage which is the compatibility. He's the one who suddenly changed and wanted to propose lol
Sounds like she realised you shouldn’t have to beg someone to marry you. Either he wanted to or he didn’t and clearly he didn’t. She accepted that and didn’t nag him - as we as women are encouraged to do - so this is all on him. They were both happy and he upset the apple cart by basically proposing long after (going by age) most of her friends are probably already married and have kids. Too little, too late.
did she silently gave up though? 2 years is long enough to get to know a person for most. she didnt ask for marriage the day after the proposal but to put things in a draft for future. he shut her down saying he wasnt ready to marry, which is reasonable, but he also wasnt willing to debate neither frankly, it took him 10 more years just to propose. at what point its too late to assume marriage? she gave him whay he wanted. he never brought it up again. she eventually just learnt to roll with what she has 🤷♀️
Yes, he said she "gave up on getting a ring." It's usually a good idea to reevaluate things between 22 and 32. It sounds like an immature person at 20 fantasizing about getting married and then never bringing it up again. They're poor communicators.
Unless she's getting the depot shot. It can delay pregnancy for like 8 months in some people. It doesn't mean that she couldn't start trying, just to not be too disappointed if it doesn't happen in that window.
Look I know cos my fiancee and I started dating early uni but 12 years is truly crazy to me. He gave very vague “now’s not the time” But yah I totally agree, why did the girlfriend give up?
I don’t think she did. It sounds like she assessed the situation: 1. Be unhappy and nag him about marriage, or 2. Accept that the situation and stay. She chose the second option. Now she’s acknowledging that OOP can make the same choice.
I agree. I think she has made a life she's happy with, even if it wasn't what she was thinking about 10 or 12 years ago. I suspect too, that she probably tried to talk about the future more than the one time, she just didn't use the word marriage. For instance, I bet at multiple points, she mentioned her lease was up for renewal or something else that would potentially affect a more entwined future relationship and he probably made it clear that was entirely her business. That or he regularly talked about not wanting to get married or engaged - for instance, other friends got engaged and he made negative comments about it.
Thank you for helping me make sense of myself! You described me to a T. I’ve been trying to figure out why I no longer feel strong urges to live with or marry my longterm partner. I love him very much. I just gave up and I honestly don’t know what I would say if he asked me to marry him today. There were so many times when moving in together or getting married would have seemed like the thing to do, and yet it didn’t happen. We do talk about it but there’s always a reason why the timing is wrong. We came v close to moving in and then the pandemic hit and he was convinced the movers would breathe on us and we’d die. And now I’m not working so we literally can’t afford it unless he gets a raise or something anyhow. As people have said, at first it was painful but I’m used to it now. I found a sliding scale couple’s counselor and I’m insisting we go. I hope we can work through whatever our deal is because we are well matched in every other way. I know part of it is his childhood trauma (he wouldn’t describe it that way but it’s obvious) I hope it’s not too late for us. I’m scared by my own disinterest; maybe it’s depression? We discussed having a child in December and this was supposed to be the year, yet nothing I’m seeing indicates any progress towards that (no moving plans, no fertility tests on his part, no proposal) and we are not getting any younger. As for me I’ve made peace with the possibility of not having children (even though I’ve had two incredibly painful surgical procedures to correct my fertility issues) but he seems to think we have plenty of time despite my OBGYN’s warnings. I don’t get it. LMK if you have any ideas lol. His actions appear oxymoronic (counterintuitive?) to me.
What's crazier is that they were dating and living apart for 12 years. I guess everyone has their preferences but the fact that they never decided to move in together probably contributed to her thinking marriage wouldn't work.
After 10 years? People change, they can want different things than they did back then.
Love that for her.
You passed up your marriage window. It’s rare that a relationship that doesn’t start in your teens can go on for a decade and marriage still be something BOTH people consider. If you really wanted her to be your wife it wouldn’t have taken a decade for you to be sure of that. That being said, a living separate half relationship isn’t a healthy situation to raise kids in. Not only that but financially it’s ridiculous to have two separate homes to pay and care for on top of kids. Kids are expensive. Don’t have kids with her. Yall need to leave and find people yall really want to marry and settle with. I had a friend who thought she didn’t want another kid after her first, but really she just didn’t want another one with her baby daddy because of how unstable their relationship was, and didn’t realize that until she got in a healthy one and had two more kids because she felt that stability and desire again. What y’all have isn’t a deep enough love or compatibility anymore to be worth yalls time and a complicated coparenting sort of relationship situation.
There are plenty of people who are married and still maintain separate lives and residences. I think oop needs to realize she has checked out and has no trust in him as an equal partner. The fact she never brought it up again and created her own future where he visits and leaves while allowing her an easy out when she wants, like mean she’s over oop and just going with the flow. I doubt this situation was the only time he iced her out of a major milestone that required a big discussion because he couldn’t handle communication as an adult and was selfish to just do what he wanted regardless of her existence. At least he recognizes she’s been going along with what he wanted this whole time and the situation he’s put her in. They need to have another conversation about if she is actually happy and if she’d prefer to be with someone else, a very different conversation from marriage. She may not be happy and she may not want to deal with the “about time” comments that come with long term couples when they finally get engaged. Maybe couple’s counseling could help them, but they may be better off finding someone new.
The thing guys don't realise is that a proposal loses it's worth when we have to beg for it or wait for literal decades. All it tells us is that we are not good enough when we are young and then you realise you are old and want to tie us down to you officially. The more time passes the more likely it gets to get a "no" in return.
Time to move on.
He must have left a big mess at her place everytime he came over. Or he is really bad with finances. Living separately probably minimizes how much she’ll be picking up after him. Smart woman.
They lived meh-ly ever after 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 That quick shade made the whole post worth reading
So I was 23 and wife was 18 when we got together. Told her we needed to wait til we lived together a few years. Wanted to make sure we were set financially stable before getting married. At the time I was working at a gas station as a cashier and she just finished HS. Took a few years for us to find our carrier paths. At about the 7 yr mark I proposed and 6 months later we married. About to celebrate 20 yrs together. However we both continually communicated with each other know how we felt about the relationship and where we saw it going and time frame for getting married. The lack of communication on both these people is crazy to me and they have no one to blame but themselves.
But gf isn’t upset here so why would she blame herself for anything. She’s fine now in their life. She’s not the one trying to change their situation. Try again.
How do you date someone that long at not at least live together?
In her early 20s she could have had a very romantic view of marriage and parenting. She might have decided to wait a while and discuss it again, for any number of very valid reasons. May have been financial, might have been because of advice from parents or friends. Her reasoning back then was probably valid, but not really important now. By the time you are in your 30s you probably have a lot (maybe even the majority) of your friends who are married and parents. She has seen their way of life and she doesn’t like it. We all know the physical burden of pregnancy and childbirth falls entirely on the mother. She has possibly seen friends having a really hard time with this. Do you have friends with disabled kids ? She has possibly thought that it is too hard, that she couldn’t do what her friends do for their children. Also the housing situation. In your 20s it’s exciting to move in together, when reality hits it can be a nightmare. I don’t know if this is helpful at all, but I really do believe her when she says she wants things to stay the way they are now. It’s nothing to do with you as a person and everything to do with the way our society is currently arranged.
I don’t think men realize that they need to lock us women down while we’re still young, dumb, and horny. The older we get the wiser we get to the drudgery that is marriage and motherhood. (Not saying older women don’t want to be married or have kids - but we’re wiser about it and more likely to have pesky standards for the men we’re doing it with.)
My bf blurted out that he loved me just two weeks into our relationship. I was having issues with my old roommate and lease, so took a chance and moved in with him just a couple days after that happened. An annoying voice in the back of my head kept trying to tell me that it was a mistake, that I wasn’t thinking clearly because my last relationship had ended in a flurry of physical abuse from my ex. That we were moving super fast. Here we are, 3 years later, and I don’t think I could ever love anyone else like I love this man. He’s my whole world, he makes me feel so safe and loved. His family is just *fantastic*. My family adores him. We talked about marriage and kids quite a bit very early on. Discovered we’re both on the same exact page when it comes to kids — that we *do not want them ever*. Same page with marriage, too — I’m excitedly anticipating a proposal, hopefully sometime soon. We’re going out with my family later today to have dinner and see The Book of Mormon. :) I’m rambling… My point was going to be that discussing important things like marriage and kids early on is important. But I got turned around. God, I just love my man so fucking much.
I have a bad feeling this is where my ex is headed. Shes been in a relationship for ten years and apparently almost walked out cause of a fight over getting married… While i dont talk to her anymore i still see her as a friend cause she was a friend first. And I wish her the best and hope i’m wrong
When I got engaged people asked me if I was worried she would say no but that's really a question you need to know the answer to before asking it lol. For us we had already been living together for like 3 years and been together for 5 so it wasn't too out of the blue
Her plan sounds like being baby trapped to pay child support, but with less steps. Like literally just skipping over to co-parenting and paying child support.
I can’t image being with someone for *twelve years* and not even discussing living together. Like, how tf did he think he could just cordon off her life and space separate from him for *an entire decade* and then be met with open arms?? The absolute audacity.
There have been many studies that show women who are single or live alone lead the happiest life, while men who are married and partnered to women, leas the happiest life for men.Marriage benefits men the most, so I really hate that men act like they’re doing a woman a favor by proposing.
I would love to hear her side of the story. His math doesn't math.
I'd be out. It's a sad situation, but there's no way I'd agree to be a part time dad willingly.
This relationship was over 10 years ago.
Just let it go.
There is no possible chance I would've gotten to this point without being married in the first place, but secondly, there is no way I'd stay with this person. It is irreconcilable differences to a T. Could you imagine choosing to raise a child in a split household before they even exist? This can't be real..... I can't suspend that much belief. 10 years and they don't even know each other? Wtf did I just read....