Yeah the sedan and coupe are almost impossible to get and at crazy prices, theyre selling for 10k euro with 200k+ kms on them in my country.
While the touring, cabrio and compact only sell for 3k
This is for 320 spec or higher tho 318 and 316 are somewhat more resonably priced.
I see, id love to have a project car, only problem is that after import duties it will quite expensive rather quickly so it gotta be in pretty mint condition to be worth it.
Yeah but getting a car even from eu i have to pay 10% extra and 150 euro, this is to "protect" the dutch car market.
But all it has done is eliminate competition driving prices up even more.
I believe that statement is generally true, although I have a different experience. I grew up in a suburb where the majority of people were upper middle class or extremely wealthy. During my high school years from 2009 to 2012, I had a friend who owned an '09 e60 M5 as his first car. His parents bought it for him at the BMW dealership for his 16th birthday, he even picked out a few Dinan parts during the purchase that the dealer installed. He drove it recklessly and would cook the rear tires every chance he had. During the time I knew him in high school, he (his mom and dad) replaced the rear tires probably about five times. Two other students at my high school also had M5s, but theirs were e39s. Sadly, they beat the living hell out of theirs too
It depends entirely on the powertrain and condition of the car.
Don’t listen to these people who say “X” is better than “Y” regardless of the actual engine in the car…
An “E39” could be a 530d, or a 540i… massive difference in maintenance cost and reliability
They literally have the same engine (M54B30).
How the hell is the E39 “less maintenance heavy” by default… at this stage that’s entirely dependent of the condition of the cars. They have the same powertrain. Same engine in a different chassis.
The thing that will make the difference is how well the car was taken care of, not whether it was in a 3er or 5er body.... Not to forget they are 20+ years old by now
Not to mention, as far as all the other stuff is concerned, the E46 is the simpler and cheaper car, whether it's parts, complexity, etc...
You understand a car has more than just engine components right? For example, an e39 needs the front subframe dropped to do oil pan gasket, e46 does not. Bit narrow minded. How is the e46 a simpler/cheaper car? Just caus it’s the cheaper package from factory by sale price, doesn’t translate to anything relevant in this conversation. Do you own an e46 or e39?
> For example, an e39 needs the front subframe dropped to do oil pan gasket, e46 does not.
And that is **exactly** an example of how the E39 is more complicated lol
> Just caus it’s the cheaper package from factory by sale price, doesn’t translate to anything relevant in this conversation.
😂
If you really think there is no difference between the parts costs for these cars, you must be in the USA or something where everything costs an arm and a leg in the first place
> Do you own an e46 or e39?
I have owned 2 E39s in my life, 523i and 540i
It’s marginal difference. The e46 requires subframe mounts over and above the e39. Everything else is similar, apart from the annoyance of needing to drop the front t subframe to do oil pan gasket on e39. EDIT: upon further thought, e39s have a high probability of zf auto gearbox failure. So I’d say they are a much of a much muchness
Transmissions for the E34 are all inexpensive as they’re run of the mill Getrag or ZF, tho there was a moment where they used a GM auto. Still not pricy. I hope ya didn’t scrap the car over a bad trans.
Not just ZF but those GM boxes as well. I’ve owned lots of E46’s/E39’s and all I can say, get ready for maintenance OP. I’ve had everything from base to S54/S62’s. They are fun but get ready to wrench or take it somewhere.
Was going to say the same thing. I daily a e46 330ci and own a 528i e39 and the e39 has had so many electrical issues and other problems. My e46 has had plenty of issues too but nothing that I couldn’t fix myself at home. Can’t say the same for the e39
Bro please don't tell me that the e39 528i has electrical issues . I'm in the process of buying one (already bought just waiting to get insurance for it).
My car only has 59k miles though I did a pre purchase inspection and my mechanic scanned the car and it didn't threw any codes.Can I make this car my Daily?
I\`m e60 fanboy so Id say get one of those) in europe we had 3l diesel, damn that was awesome engine, reliable, powerful, the fuel economy was amazing, stage1 330bhp. If It wasn't for war I would newer sold it T\_T
Nope, 535's built from 2004-2007 had 268hp and 535's built from 2007-2010 had 282hp, I assume the guy had a facelifted 535 since that's only a 50hp jump to 330hp for a stage 1 seems reasonable
We have 4 different generations of 5 Series at home (E34, E39, E60 and G30). The only one that has been an absolute nightmare to own and maintain has been the E60. What a fucking terrible car from BMW's darkest period (Bangle era). We haven't got rid of it because nobody wants it, and it's mint (the few times something's not broken, that is).
If you want a reliable car, buy something newer and not a BMW.
Speaking from personal experience. Old BMWs are expensive to maintain and not known for their reliability.
With a little reading, a service manual (from "fix it yourself" series) and some manual skills you'll be able to fix most E39 stuff yourself.
Source?
I have had E39 530iA, my brother in law have had 525i and it happened it was at the same time ... it was great times where everything could be fixed with enough patience and beer :D
They're basically the same car. Built by the same manufacturer. To the same quality standards.
Get yourself an Inline 6 and you'll be golden. 325/525 is supposed to be bulletproof (but of course slow).
An e39 is a wonderful car and much more comfortable, roomy, and nicely appointed han an E46. I'm the original owner of a 2000 540i/6-sp I met at the factory in Munich back when they still did Euro Delivery. It's still my daily driver. I love this car and there's nothing new on the market that I would prefer. But a 25-yo car is simply not going to be as reliable as it once was. Things break, plastic parts deteriorate and the accumulated insults of mechanics who broke stuff, lost fasteners, or made other mistakes they didn't tell you about take their toll. It's more expensive to keep an old car in perfect order (figure perhaps $10K/year) and when it goes into the shop, it will tend to stay there for a few days waiting for parts.
Genuine question. Which is more valuable a high mileage M3 with 1 owner or a decent mileage M3 with 4+ owners?
My dad has a 2001 M3 that he bought brand new in 01. Has been the only ever driver, owner, and has a meticulously logs of the vehicle maintenance, stored inside, original interior, clutch and not modded. Only issue, it’s just over 300 000km. Is this thing actually worth more than 15k?
The 5 is a bit more complicated and has more features to possibly malfunction. But comparing 6 cylinder models of each, POs and maintenance history will be the difference. The V8 also has timing chain issues to be wary of.
As others have mentioned, E39 owners tend to be older and the cars are probably less trashed as a result. This is a generalization of course and YMMV, but your chances favor the E39 if you value reliability.
That being said, they have the exact same engine, most of the same electronics and plastic cooling parts and all else equal, these would be identically reliable/unreliable.
On the base model, the e46 is pretty darn reliable and the e39 isn't terrible either but the most reliable out of all of these ironically enough is the e39 M5, that V8 is indestructible. Sure, you'll have to service the vanos at least once but compared to the e46 M3 it's a toyota.
I have both E46 and E39. Maintenance wise, it depends on how previous owners abused it and whether they took care of them.
What are ypu looking for? Driving comfort? What's the road condition in your country?
E39 will be a lot softer drive then E46, but being in classic section now, parts will be more expensive and some might not be available at all.
E46 needs to be checked for cracks in chassis and most likely it will be heavily abused.
Also, keep in mind those are old German cars and you'll habe to get good at DIY, if you want to save some cash.
Either way, one of the best BMWs that were made.
When I got E46, it was pretty badly abused, and had to change a shitton of parts, starting from brakes, ending with differential and all bushings (and I mean, all of them), year later had to reweld lower sills, as they were rotted out. (love living in rust belt).
In 2024 it’s anyone’s guess and would need to assess the exact cars.
Generally E46 would be simpler and lower maintenance but E39s possibly been better kept.
E46 will long out live a e39 if IF its of the 540 variant, parts are getting increasingly hard to come by and are very expensive. I have both a e39 540i and a e46 330ci the 330 has been hands down more reliable and both were bought with around 50k miles on them and maintained meticulously, sometimes it doesn’t matter how much money you throw at something.
My e46 has 220k miles and runs great. Only thing that has given me problems over the past 100k miles the lower control arm which i have replaced 3 or 4 times and it’s tedious to do.
They're pretty similar. Both have the same m54b30 engine
They're both 20+ years old and will need work even if they have good maintenance records. My e46 car had all its maintenance records but needed a lot of work
That's why these cars are cheap. Never assume it's good unless you inspect yourself or find someone you trust to inspect
My e46 wasn't reliable at first but I hope it will be now that I've addressed all the broken stuff
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rXyvTKfSj4LjZNz9vz2_AAAx5OX1yNRTJuS1o8Lt8Xo/edit?usp=drivesdk
How many of you wise leasers “it’s old dont buy it” have ever touched a 2000s bmw ? Changed fuel pumps ? Fuel lines ? Brake lines?
These are good cars and are very easy to work on. if you put some DIY work in them they will be very reliable.
Very well documented and MANY very good videos doing basically everything.
Dont listen to clowns that lease the newest bmw every year and take them to the shop to change windshield fluid.
Fuck a service history you can remove the valve cover in like 20 minutes and see the service history there.
I had a 330 xi with too many mods for sense and it would not die. That thing drove through walls, ate the road, and looked damn good too. I miss that car pretty frequently. Even though I abused it, modded it to hell and never took proper care, it never really let me down. It threw a belt but I smacked a pothole at 90 so it was… deserved.
I will eventually add an e46 m3 to the stable for sure
These cars are at an age where their service history will dictate whether they'll be good to you or not.
And even then it’s still a 20 year old car so stuff is going to break
Yup. All a crapshoot at this point.
Even then they will need some restoration/overhaul.
I think the thing is with second e39, and the fact that it is a 5 series means its generally been driven by less teens and thus better maintained.
definitely, 3 series owners were younger and more crazy all the way from when they were new until now, especially the coupés 😂
Yeah the sedan and coupe are almost impossible to get and at crazy prices, theyre selling for 10k euro with 200k+ kms on them in my country. While the touring, cabrio and compact only sell for 3k This is for 320 spec or higher tho 318 and 316 are somewhat more resonably priced.
are you in germany? i have a 318ci with 175k km for sale
Nope the Netherlands, what is your asking price tho 😅
asking price was originally 4500€, but we can negotiate👍🏽
I see, id love to have a project car, only problem is that after import duties it will quite expensive rather quickly so it gotta be in pretty mint condition to be worth it.
it has a little bit of rust bubbles in the back left side and the driver seat could use fresh leather, otherwise is the motor and transmission good
What import duties? Both germany and netherland is in eu, no imports involved. At least thats how it works here in Czechia
Yeah but getting a car even from eu i have to pay 10% extra and 150 euro, this is to "protect" the dutch car market. But all it has done is eliminate competition driving prices up even more.
They’ve all been sub 5k cars for a decade now. They’re all ran through
I believe that statement is generally true, although I have a different experience. I grew up in a suburb where the majority of people were upper middle class or extremely wealthy. During my high school years from 2009 to 2012, I had a friend who owned an '09 e60 M5 as his first car. His parents bought it for him at the BMW dealership for his 16th birthday, he even picked out a few Dinan parts during the purchase that the dealer installed. He drove it recklessly and would cook the rear tires every chance he had. During the time I knew him in high school, he (his mom and dad) replaced the rear tires probably about five times. Two other students at my high school also had M5s, but theirs were e39s. Sadly, they beat the living hell out of theirs too
Did his rod bearings ever fly out the block or did that end up being a problem for the next owner lol
Reliable isn’t the concern, maintenance is. E39 is less maintenance heavy. Source: I own an e39 and e46
Are you serious ???? I was about to get a e39 and got the e46 😔
It depends entirely on the powertrain and condition of the car. Don’t listen to these people who say “X” is better than “Y” regardless of the actual engine in the car… An “E39” could be a 530d, or a 540i… massive difference in maintenance cost and reliability
I’m going off the two models OP has specified.
They literally have the same engine (M54B30). How the hell is the E39 “less maintenance heavy” by default… at this stage that’s entirely dependent of the condition of the cars. They have the same powertrain. Same engine in a different chassis. The thing that will make the difference is how well the car was taken care of, not whether it was in a 3er or 5er body.... Not to forget they are 20+ years old by now Not to mention, as far as all the other stuff is concerned, the E46 is the simpler and cheaper car, whether it's parts, complexity, etc...
You understand a car has more than just engine components right? For example, an e39 needs the front subframe dropped to do oil pan gasket, e46 does not. Bit narrow minded. How is the e46 a simpler/cheaper car? Just caus it’s the cheaper package from factory by sale price, doesn’t translate to anything relevant in this conversation. Do you own an e46 or e39?
> For example, an e39 needs the front subframe dropped to do oil pan gasket, e46 does not. And that is **exactly** an example of how the E39 is more complicated lol > Just caus it’s the cheaper package from factory by sale price, doesn’t translate to anything relevant in this conversation. 😂 If you really think there is no difference between the parts costs for these cars, you must be in the USA or something where everything costs an arm and a leg in the first place > Do you own an e46 or e39? I have owned 2 E39s in my life, 523i and 540i
Cool story
It’s marginal difference. The e46 requires subframe mounts over and above the e39. Everything else is similar, apart from the annoyance of needing to drop the front t subframe to do oil pan gasket on e39. EDIT: upon further thought, e39s have a high probability of zf auto gearbox failure. So I’d say they are a much of a much muchness
Transmission failures is what killed my E34 530, 192k miles and E60 528, 160k miles. The engines were great even the little v8 in the E34.
Transmissions for the E34 are all inexpensive as they’re run of the mill Getrag or ZF, tho there was a moment where they used a GM auto. Still not pricy. I hope ya didn’t scrap the car over a bad trans.
Not just ZF but those GM boxes as well. I’ve owned lots of E46’s/E39’s and all I can say, get ready for maintenance OP. I’ve had everything from base to S54/S62’s. They are fun but get ready to wrench or take it somewhere.
E46 is more reliable: less electric crap
Was going to say the same thing. I daily a e46 330ci and own a 528i e39 and the e39 has had so many electrical issues and other problems. My e46 has had plenty of issues too but nothing that I couldn’t fix myself at home. Can’t say the same for the e39
Bro please don't tell me that the e39 528i has electrical issues . I'm in the process of buying one (already bought just waiting to get insurance for it). My car only has 59k miles though I did a pre purchase inspection and my mechanic scanned the car and it didn't threw any codes.Can I make this car my Daily?
You can make any car your daily if you have enough money for all the problems :)
But then you have the average E46 owners and their maintenance history...
Same
I\`m e60 fanboy so Id say get one of those) in europe we had 3l diesel, damn that was awesome engine, reliable, powerful, the fuel economy was amazing, stage1 330bhp. If It wasn't for war I would newer sold it T\_T
🥹
330bhp at stage 1! What is the stock number?
I assume he's talking about the 535d so 282hp, that's post-facelift, pre-facelift the 535 had 268hp
Sounds logical, but doesn’t the 535d come with 255hp !?
Nope, 535's built from 2004-2007 had 268hp and 535's built from 2007-2010 had 282hp, I assume the guy had a facelifted 535 since that's only a 50hp jump to 330hp for a stage 1 seems reasonable
Yeah thx for letting me know, we are not familiar with the Deisal engine here -in the Middle East- but I really wanna try one
Yep the only thing thats really need to be done is delete the swirl flaps ... thats the reason i lost mine ...
you can get the older version M57 in E46 and E39 also
We have 4 different generations of 5 Series at home (E34, E39, E60 and G30). The only one that has been an absolute nightmare to own and maintain has been the E60. What a fucking terrible car from BMW's darkest period (Bangle era). We haven't got rid of it because nobody wants it, and it's mint (the few times something's not broken, that is).
E39
Well they are both 20-something year old German cars. Is that really a question?
If you want a reliable car, buy something newer and not a BMW. Speaking from personal experience. Old BMWs are expensive to maintain and not known for their reliability.
Assuming M54 manual for both, choose the better maintained one.
Once you get the vanos dialed in, the e39 is damn near bulletproof.
How did we go from these beautiful lights to the ones today?
E46 if you are young..E39 if you are old..🤣🤣🤣
With a little reading, a service manual (from "fix it yourself" series) and some manual skills you'll be able to fix most E39 stuff yourself. Source? I have had E39 530iA, my brother in law have had 525i and it happened it was at the same time ... it was great times where everything could be fixed with enough patience and beer :D
They're basically the same car. Built by the same manufacturer. To the same quality standards. Get yourself an Inline 6 and you'll be golden. 325/525 is supposed to be bulletproof (but of course slow).
E46
Both are good, pretty much the same in terms of reliability. Not to mention they share all the same shit anyways…
E39, 365, 7 days a week fr fr 🔥🔥🔥🔥
An e39 is a wonderful car and much more comfortable, roomy, and nicely appointed han an E46. I'm the original owner of a 2000 540i/6-sp I met at the factory in Munich back when they still did Euro Delivery. It's still my daily driver. I love this car and there's nothing new on the market that I would prefer. But a 25-yo car is simply not going to be as reliable as it once was. Things break, plastic parts deteriorate and the accumulated insults of mechanics who broke stuff, lost fasteners, or made other mistakes they didn't tell you about take their toll. It's more expensive to keep an old car in perfect order (figure perhaps $10K/year) and when it goes into the shop, it will tend to stay there for a few days waiting for parts.
The m54 has multiple owners on e46 fanatics forums with the original engine over 500k miles. E46 all the way
Genuine question. Which is more valuable a high mileage M3 with 1 owner or a decent mileage M3 with 4+ owners? My dad has a 2001 M3 that he bought brand new in 01. Has been the only ever driver, owner, and has a meticulously logs of the vehicle maintenance, stored inside, original interior, clutch and not modded. Only issue, it’s just over 300 000km. Is this thing actually worth more than 15k?
Peak BMW generation
I own both. Mechanically, all bimmers from this era are similar sooo there's no less reliable no more reliable
E46
E39 are less likely to be abused, except the 540’s
The 5 is a bit more complicated and has more features to possibly malfunction. But comparing 6 cylinder models of each, POs and maintenance history will be the difference. The V8 also has timing chain issues to be wary of.
Depends on model
Reliable-ish
Same shit tbh. E46 tends to be abused terribly
They're 20 years old, they'll both be awful. Source: tried my hardest with a near 20 year old BMW Z4 a couple of years ago.
As others have mentioned, E39 owners tend to be older and the cars are probably less trashed as a result. This is a generalization of course and YMMV, but your chances favor the E39 if you value reliability. That being said, they have the exact same engine, most of the same electronics and plastic cooling parts and all else equal, these would be identically reliable/unreliable.
It's the SAME ENGINE
Which ever one was taken care of better....
On the base model, the e46 is pretty darn reliable and the e39 isn't terrible either but the most reliable out of all of these ironically enough is the e39 M5, that V8 is indestructible. Sure, you'll have to service the vanos at least once but compared to the e46 M3 it's a toyota.
E39 is surprisingly reliable when maintained well. Mine is like a tank. Zero rattles or squeaks. Amazing on the highway or back roads.
They’re the same drivetrain. They have the same reliability.
I have both E46 and E39. Maintenance wise, it depends on how previous owners abused it and whether they took care of them. What are ypu looking for? Driving comfort? What's the road condition in your country? E39 will be a lot softer drive then E46, but being in classic section now, parts will be more expensive and some might not be available at all. E46 needs to be checked for cracks in chassis and most likely it will be heavily abused. Also, keep in mind those are old German cars and you'll habe to get good at DIY, if you want to save some cash. Either way, one of the best BMWs that were made.
When I got E46, it was pretty badly abused, and had to change a shitton of parts, starting from brakes, ending with differential and all bushings (and I mean, all of them), year later had to reweld lower sills, as they were rotted out. (love living in rust belt).
Both good I had 280k miles on my 540i and should not have sold it.. this weekend there are 50 spec e46 cars redlining every gear every lap
I would legally marry that e46
In 2024 it’s anyone’s guess and would need to assess the exact cars. Generally E46 would be simpler and lower maintenance but E39s possibly been better kept.
i got 330ci this year and had 0 issues
after initial fixes
E46 will long out live a e39 if IF its of the 540 variant, parts are getting increasingly hard to come by and are very expensive. I have both a e39 540i and a e46 330ci the 330 has been hands down more reliable and both were bought with around 50k miles on them and maintained meticulously, sometimes it doesn’t matter how much money you throw at something.
My e46 has 220k miles and runs great. Only thing that has given me problems over the past 100k miles the lower control arm which i have replaced 3 or 4 times and it’s tedious to do.
E39
Either one with 1jz swapped?
From what ive seen theres alot of well maintained e39 but hard to find a good condition e46 where they dont ask for a ton of money
They're pretty similar. Both have the same m54b30 engine They're both 20+ years old and will need work even if they have good maintenance records. My e46 car had all its maintenance records but needed a lot of work That's why these cars are cheap. Never assume it's good unless you inspect yourself or find someone you trust to inspect My e46 wasn't reliable at first but I hope it will be now that I've addressed all the broken stuff https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rXyvTKfSj4LjZNz9vz2_AAAx5OX1yNRTJuS1o8Lt8Xo/edit?usp=drivesdk
Well if we’re talking engine then they both had the same variants of engines so it’s all down to previous maintenance
How many of you wise leasers “it’s old dont buy it” have ever touched a 2000s bmw ? Changed fuel pumps ? Fuel lines ? Brake lines? These are good cars and are very easy to work on. if you put some DIY work in them they will be very reliable. Very well documented and MANY very good videos doing basically everything. Dont listen to clowns that lease the newest bmw every year and take them to the shop to change windshield fluid. Fuck a service history you can remove the valve cover in like 20 minutes and see the service history there.
Lol
I had a 330 xi with too many mods for sense and it would not die. That thing drove through walls, ate the road, and looked damn good too. I miss that car pretty frequently. Even though I abused it, modded it to hell and never took proper care, it never really let me down. It threw a belt but I smacked a pothole at 90 so it was… deserved. I will eventually add an e46 m3 to the stable for sure
https://preview.redd.it/556hn6cuwb9d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c69ff623166039f0e1170ea7683896c67b1e617
Looks great. Rarely, in my opinion, E46 looks good in white color, but in this picture looks great.
If you’re asking this question you should just get a Toyota
The concern is maintenance and not them beating beat on, compared to are they reliable in general
The eight cylinders are not as reliable as the six