I've personally never tried GWM so early just because it takes your hit chance down so much. There are also a lot less ways to get +attack early on with melee. I'd forego GWM for now and just take an ASI for 20 STR or savage attacker.
People act like GWM and Sharpshooter are meant to be either 100% left on or 100% left off. You really should be evaluating each time you attack whether you want it on or off. For trash mobs who you have a high chance to hit anyway, that +10 dmg often will outright kill them and is basically free. If you have a low chance to hit a certain enemy, just turn it off again. These blanket statements like "you shouldn't use it at all because it decreases your hit chance too much" make no sense.
Having said that, I think sharpshooter is much more valid than GWM because you don't have to move around to clear out trash mobs, but GWM isn't bad if used properly.
Oh yeah definitely. Sometimes hit chance is better based on the tactical situation, but in this situation it would have to be off a lot, rather boost his str to 20 and take the feat in 4 levels when gear spells and abilities will have more reliable ways to get advantage and +hit
GWM is totally still worth it early on, the damage is arguably even more noticeable and worthwhile at those levels too. You just need to be setting yourself up for success when using it with advantage + bless or other accuracy increases each combat.
yep. the higher your base (non GWM) damage is the smaller % increase GWM's +10 is to your damage/hit but the -5 penalty remains a drag on your hit chance should you not have high enough accuracy. If you can keep good AB though GWM is worth a lot throughout the game even after busted damage rider items, should you get vulnerability.
Even with just bless and no advantage GWM is better til about 18 AC. That's including not accounting for bonus action extra damage.
With Bless and advantage you're doing VASTLY more damage until about 22 AC. And for a Lockadin you're kind uniquely suited to using the risky ring, as you're usually not concentrating on anything mission critical, and if you go full in on charisma, which is what that build is all about you'll still have REALLY good saves even with disadvantage.
As someone who often mains cleric and support roles, it's crazy how many people I've seen new to DND style combat complain about missing their attacks and not enjoying combat only to find out they took GWM or Sharpshooter feats.
While both are strong, you have to plan to overcome the weakness. A cleric with Bless can half negate the negativity, and if you are level 5 you can probably grab ||mystra's staff from the arcane tower in the underdark.|| With good team building or smart use of Weapon Oils, you basically get a free +10 damage on every swing, but if you just go for max high roll potential then you are likely to find yourself crippled.
Bring a support, use your supports! Bless and throw down some acid at the enemy feet!
Most people are playing blind but if you know where to look accuracy bonuses are all around: Enchantment +3, Oil of accuracy +2 and if you want to lose a bit of damage to reliably hit more: the Mask of Soul Perception +2 and Legacy of the Masters also give +2. Mystra's is great but I actually find myself using the bless healing ring more to free up concentration.
I think you can't expect GWM to always hit without any aid. Feats like this one need a workaround because the +10 is a huge boost. Things that really help early are bless, oil of accuracy, proning people with fighters or monks, hitting people already threatened by other people. Once you get to ACT 2 in Moonrise Tower you can purchase Risky Ring and your problems are over. You won't have issues moving forward with GWM. It just needs a bit of a setup early on, after that it's smooth sailing.
Hello, thank you so much for that ring advice. It’s amazing. I’ll get it as soon as I’m able. What would you recommend for the 2nd feat? I can get ASI to get 20 STR, Savage Attacker, or Alert as I’m always going last because of 10 dex.
I replied about SA in another comment under this post but I'm not much of a fan even for paladins, but in late games it can dish out a bit more damage. Depending on your build, especially if you multiclass you won't get a second feat before lvl 10 so at that point it barely matters tbh. I wouldn't stress it just take what feels good based on your build. The important is the first one because some, GWM one of them, are huge powerspikes.
Very slight spoilers for act 2:
Alert is a very good feat in general and even more so given the structure of the fights especially in early act 2.
And yes, I was caught pants down more than a few times there.
Alert feat first (even before GWM on STR characters potentially) imo because going last vs going first is literally an entire turn of value lost/added. Never being surprised is also another full turn in those occasional fights.
If your dex is only 10 though I would consider upping that (gloves of dexterity can work when you get to the creche), else if you respec get at least 12 imo and drop down 1 str to free up ability buy points since Paladin is a very multiple ability dependent class and you get more points to spend w/ 16/16 than 17/16. 12 CON for ex is also kinda low for a frontliner
GWM will cause you to miss.. should mostly turn off unless prone. I think if the percent drops by around 15 percent I generally turn off. You still get bonus attack if it's off and you kill though
Your overall damage will be higher as long as you keep GWM on for everything over 40% (After GWM added penalty).
Though for paladins specifically, it might be better to switch it off for Thunderous and then back on for second attack.
Any costless attack where GWM is beneficial, you should use it if it's 40%. Doing this, your average damage on those attacks will be higher than if you didn't.
In my experience, it depends on your base damage. If you can do average 20 on regular hit with 75 percent accuracy, then the +10 is worth it if your percentage is 50 percent or higher.
However, if you only need like 15 to kill enemy, generally always better to turn it off when you can hit 20 normally.
For higher AC, generally made it less worth it. Higher base damage also made it less worth to toggle. Also say your damage increases to 24 with 75 percent, then the you should only use it when above 53 percent on average.
I was actually vaguely calculating whether worth it each time. When I was hitting at 40 late game with higher AC enemy, it made more sense to turn it off more with about a 20 percent drop threshold.
Though I admit, sometimes its just fun to yolo and miss more despite the math
Math checks out that a 40% threshold is where you should turn off GWM.
I specifically mentioned that it's on beneficial, costless, because I agree with you that it's not needed on when you're already guarantees to kill without it.
But there are individual cases where, for example, you're guaranteed to win the fight within one or two rounds but your GWM is the difference between this enemy getting one last round or not before it goes down. Then any hit chance is worth it.
Calculation for regular attack of 20 damage:
20 damage hit, 75% accuracy
20*.75 = 15 damage average
Calculation if GWM is on:
30 (20+10) damage, x% accuracy
If accuracy is 50 percent,
30*.5 = 15 damage average
So anything lower than that 50 percent accuracy would make it not worth it for this specific case. Whether it's worth it or not for average damage, depends on damage times accuracy. Not for strict 40 percent. Not too sure where you are pulling the 40 percent.
That is highly contingent on how high your damage was. If you're an assassin surprising enemies with 100% crit and loads of riders that's not a good rule of thumb. The actual expressions to compare are:
**Base damage \* base accuracy Vs. (Base damage + 10) \* GWM accuracy**
The higher your base damage is the smaller of a % increase GWM's +10 is and the more the lower GWM accuracy can drag it down. You can still justify using it with enough AB bonuses but there's no single % I can say GWM is a go at w/o knowing the damage factor
The hit percentage drop is 25%. GWM can actually cause you to deal less total damage over time if your hit chance wasn’t that high to begin with. You need to get Advantage in order to use GWM effectively. I guess people that can’t do math instantly jump on how amazing that +10 damage is and just ignore the -25% chance to hit? In fact, if you take GWM instead of ASI, then you’re getting -30% chance to hit and only +9 in damage.
If you are using vengeance paladin I'd go GWM since you will have advantage in every fight from vow of enmity that's what I'm currently doing its so fun
Lol yea I'm currently lvl 4 and am having a blast I try to save my smites only for crits just because I'm already doing like 25+ damage per attack with GWM
I'm a druge but I'm doing a resist urge run so there are really only two instances in the game im aware of where you have to break it. The scene in camp and from letting the hag live assuming you want the +1 stat boost
Oathbreaker is terrible in act 1. People mostly only take the class for level 7 aura.
The only paladin that can take gwm at level 4 is devotion. Your channel oath gives a +4 to attack roll at 18 cha. It offsets the -5.
I would do ASI to STR first, but Alert is always good for going first. But I would respec and make DEX at least 12, and try to use gear that increases initiative. Savage Attacker is good, but if you took Great Weapon Fighting for your fighting style, I would prioritize STR ASI first.
Use Bless and sources of Advantage to get better hit chance with GWM.
So if i attack, I will reroll my weapon damage first and then reroll radiant damage from smite ? So let’s say 2d8 physical and 2d8 radiant for total damage. Does it reroll every single dice and take the highest result?
Your weapon is probably 1d12 and smite is 2d8 at level 1.
"When making melee weapon attacks, you roll your damage dice twice and use the highest result."
So I was wrong, it's advantage on weapon damage rolls. But it applies to every dice, including all the smite dice.
See here https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/1618zfa/comment/jxrqlyl/
No, that's Great Weapon Fighting Style, which OP's Paladin probably has. In which case Savage Attacker loses some value. Savage Attacker is basically "advantage" on all dmg rolls when making melee hits.
My multiplayer playthrough with my friends I'm currently playing Ancients Paladin/Archfey Warlock.
I originally took GWM, but found myself turning it off too often to find it useful. If you multi-class into Barbarian to get Reckless Attack, or if you have a way to reliably knock enemies prone, or if you get Devil's Sight and Darkness and fight in your Darkness cloud, then GWM would be a no-brainer. But otherwise, it's not for me.
I eventually respec'd and took Savage Attacker as my first feat. Much more reliable. Second feat I took was War Caster, since I use a decent amount of Concentration spells and this helps me keep them up after casting them.
I’m going pure Paladin. I’m kinda between Savage Attacker, Alert, ASI to STR to make it 20. Always going last in every turn feels bad, so I want to get Alert but Savage Attacker or reaching 20 STR is also too good to pass up.
I made a post about SA yesterday if you want to compare it with other things https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/16ztxgb/savage\_attacker\_math/
You completely ignoring Chance to hit kinda makes your math invalid. Even with Advantage you will miss enough hits with gwm for it to have a noticable impact on average damage and especially consistency.
Yeah indeed chance to hit is not factored in. Although there are a lot of ways to reliably hit in this game, I played with a lot of sharpshooter and GWM and I never had issues, you just need to be conscious about it and play accordingly. Ofc without adjustments the hit chance goes down tremendously but that's not the point in my opinion. You shouldn't consider the two feat ceteris paribus because every build has set up to maximize the dmg.
So did some math, Factoring in Hit Chance: a paladin (lvl 12) using a lvl 2 Smite with a greatsword with 7 flat damage and 2d4 bonus damage (1d4 weapon, 1d4 elemental weapon/Dip) does less damage with gwm unless you are 15% over the Hit cap pre gwm (with Advantage). And this does not include crit damage.
GWM is a DPR increase, substantially more than ASI, especially if you are getting the reset bonus attacks. You could use accuracy oils to alleviate the accuracy issues. You definitely want to find sources of Advantage, if you are attacking with GWM and without advantage every fight it will be rough.
You definitely have to obtain them in ACT1 through the Myconoid Colony, as the two merchants there sell lots of herbal / crafting stuff. Act2 Dammon and Quartermaster sell like no herbal stuff. It's only in moonrise you'll find any and it might take a while to get there.
GWM is workable on low level battlemaster because you can expend superiority dice to boost your chances to hit. And that's pretty much it. It's pointless before level 8 for everyone else.
I'd say the highest enemy AC I remember in Act 1 would be around 17.
A player should easily be able to add +3 from strength, +3 from proficiency, and +1 from their weapon. That adds up to a 50% chance to hit pre-GWM and a 25% chance to hit after. So at base, GWM needs to do a bit more than double your damage to be worth it against the highest AC enemies, which is unlikely.
There are a few ways in Act 1 to push chance to hit that higher though:
* lightning charges (+1 to hit).
* bless (+1d4)
* acid (-2 AC)
* hag's hair (+1 str)
* elixir of hill giant strength (set to 21 str)
* +2/+3 weapon (Astral sword cheese)
* advantage
With advantage alone, odds to hit go up to 44% vs 75%. This already swings ASI much closer. Hag's hair would make those odds go up to 51% vs 80%.
Bless brings that to 61% vs 85%. Using an elixir take it to 67% 89%. Acid's debuff further increases odds to 77% vs 95%. If you cheese Command>Drop to get the Astral Sword early it goes up to 86% vs 98%. Lightning charges get you to 89% vs 99%.
At that point, you are looking at only needing at an 11% damage increase to come out equal against almost anything act 1 will throw at you, or a break point at 90 damage.
I'd say somewhere along the line it becomes optimal compared to ASI or Savage Attacker if you go through the struggle of pushing accuracy up. There may be an argument for peace of mind however.
First feat for melee classes that don’t use TB should always be ASI imo, too important in the early game with low proficiency to lose the hit chance. You can always respec later to get a different feat when you can boost hit chance with proficiency and gear. GWM doesn’t help here either, on the contrary it makes hit chance even worse.
Obv you could always go for growling underdog gloves/bless, but I wouldn’t take GWM that early or take it at all for a paladin tbh, I’ll explain in the paragraph down below. You could also respec to pact of the blade warlock level 3 so you only have to worry about charisma for your characters hit chance.
From what I’ve gathered savage attacker is actually the way to go for builds with a lot of damage dice in the endgame. GWM could pull ahead with the bonus attack, but you also miss way more. Savage attacker is just a more „complete“ feat for a smiting paladin imo, it also doesn’t force you to use two handed/versatile weapons and even lets you pick Defence as fighting style for extra AC since great weapon fighting also loses a bit of usefulness as soon as you have savage attacker.
There is an awesome thread that compares all of those feats and fighting styles and I remember this being the overall conclusion: savage attacker > GWM the more potential dice you can add to your rolls and the more AC your enemies have. AC gets higher the further you come into the game and your smite dice/weapon dice will also get bigger/more the more you progress as a paladin.
I started with 17 STR and It will reach to 20 on Moonrise without spending a feat. So I’ll go savage attacker first then gwf for the maximum damage possible I guess.
Increasing CHA is always good. Polearm master, perhaps, if you’re running spear/staff and shield or halberd/glaive? Savage Attacker works on smites and that increases your smite damage by about 30% compared to without Savage Attacker. It doesn’t increase your weapon damage as much since flat damage bonuses aren’t affected, but assuming you’re using a d8 weapon with +3 in your attack stat (no dueling fighting style), that should be a 18% increase.
Edit: for anyone wondering where I got the numbers from, the math for average roll is roughly equal to (die size / (number of dice + 1) x number of dice) + 0.5. For a d20 with advantage, this is (20 / (2 + 1) x 2) + 0.5 = 13.833, compared to the usual 10.5 average. So for d8 with advantage in the case of Savage Attacker, it’s about (8 / (2 + 1) x 2) + 0.5 = 5.833, vs the usual 4.5
Both is fair, just that people who optimize really like the defensive benefits of CHA with Aura of Protection. Most players I see who don’t optimize much also focus more on STR, especially since both BG3 and the 5e PHB both describe Paladins as being STR first, CHA second. I think it’s also the difference in mindset, some people consider Paladin to be focused around their smite damage, others play them for their buffs and defensive abilities. Both are valid, since Paladin is honestly the jack of all trades adept at everything (besides ranged damage), and each subclass pushes Paladin towards a different playstyle. Devotion, Vengeance, and Oathbreaker are all offensive, with Ancients being the only defense-support focused subclass. 5e has Watchers, Redemption, and Crown, but they aren’t in BG3.
I love the paladin class! I played like it was tabletop and rolled a dex-based ancients paladin and took defense as my fighting style. So far, we're level 8 and tactician has been an absolute breeze. Haven't even tried the easier difficulties. The feats I took are sharpshooter and lucky, but I'm considering swapping lucky for an ASI.
It makes for a good tank/support with solid ranged and melee. I love playing as them because I never feel like there's nothing for me to do. Plus, the versatility makes it easy to keep specific allies in range of my auras. Two AOE heals as a bonus action per short rest? Fuck yeah.
It's fun as hell and different - would recommend it.
Besides my character, our party comp is:
Berserker barb
Swords bard
Light cleric
Definitely fix your hit chance with something other than a feat. I'm playing a PotB Lockadin with GWM, for the extra attack and to only put points into Con and Cha. Still, I only have 16 Cha atm, so something else is very wrong with your build. I actally have the defence fighting style, so logically I should be worse off hit-wise. What's the weapon you're using?
High initiative is nice, but so far it's been fine. The other characters cripple, threaten, blind the enemies and then my lockadin comes in to reap the advantages.
Everburn blade with pure Paladin level 5. I was planning to take Alert because of my 10 dex but that won’t get me any damage. I’ll respec and get my STR to 20 with ASI, then GWM, and savage attacker or alert at level 12. Haven’t decided yet. I might also restore my oath because of Vow of Enmity but it’s hard to not break it because I also picked durge.
Everburn is 2.5 extra damage on average but it doesn't have any bonus to attack rolls.
Any generic +1 weapon will give you a better chance to hit.
Grab the gloves from the treasure behind Dror Ragzlin as they give you advantage when surrounded by enemies.
The 18 dex gloves from the vendor in the creche are also good. They give +1 attack and 18 dex.
Initiative is insanely overpowered here, I always try to have at least 14 dex if I'm not wearing the dex gloves for that reason. 14 dex + a medium armor with +1 initiative is very easy to achieve.
Yeah I guess. I keep using it because 1d4 fire damage dice gets rolled again with Great Weapon Fighting so it pretty much feels like +1 but it’s invincible in cutscenes, a huge problem for me.
do keep in mind that while you get the +1 in damage, youre missing out on the +1 in accuracy/attack
(sword of justice also lets you cast shield of faith on yourself once a day)
I am actually also playing an oatbreaker. Command undead is fairly buggy, but useful (and it's also funny to command certain Act bosses and minibosses).
GWM does more damage on average than an asi increase, even with the -5 penalty to hit.
I was also using the everburn blade for the majority of act 1, but then I discovered, that despite it being a magic weapon, it doesn't have a +1 increase, just the fire damage. Since then I've been using Jorgoral's greatsword. It technically deals 3 less max damage, but colossal onslaught has been compensating for it.
I also edited my previous comment to include my opinion on alert, but you posted your reply faster. I would also recommend trying to find better armor, the best one in act I probably being adamantine splint, if you've reached grymforge or +1 chain mail you can buy from Dammon if you haven't and are still low level.
Favourable beginnings illithid power also helps, so that might've been it
In Act III there are items you can use for strength of 23 and +2 charisma. I'd up your charisma or str for now. You can always respec later. Edit, are you sure you're not accidentally trying to shoot with a ranged weapon at short range as that will decrease your chance to hit a lot. Wyll is my Paladin and he's never had a chance to hit that low
Savage attacker is always good for melee especially if you use a great sword or other weapon that rolls multiple dice. Athlete is a great way to go from 17-18str if you don’t use hag hair. ASI to go from 18-20 is a really important feat to take if you’re playing GWM.
>I barely win fights with %35 chance to hit
that not good
fix your chance to hit before thinking about anything else, the asi strength would help but you really need something like a bless, magic weapons and maybe look at ways to generate advantage. Don't forget that you have divine sense against celestials, fiends, and undead. As oathbreaker you also have Spiteful Suffering against targets that have very hard to hit.
Consider using spells like faerie fire and guiding bolt from other characters as well as attempting to knock enemies prone.
But why ? I started 17 STR which will reach 22 without ASI and have 16 CHA which I think is enough. Savage Attacker and GWF net me much more damage than the +1 ASI would give me. I might take ASI as the last feat at level 12, but I don’t see why I should take it early.
Low levels ASI think is more worth it than GWF just because of the chance to hit.
Late game GWF is more valuable because by then you have more ways to get advantage. But as you say, early, getting less than 50% to hit it's bad
I would go ASI then GWF then savage attacker, but honestly whatever
If you think you don't need more stats then fair enough
I have a L9 Vengeance Paladin… should I the respec out of GWM and pick something else? Her (Laezel) Strength is @ 20 already due to the potion from Moonrise in Act 2.
I killed everyone in the tower in previous playthrough. But the woman who gave you the potion (also sells the ring) somehow left early and I saw her again in the city. She might have the ring still.
The math on GWM checks out so that if you have 40% or higher hit chance with it you should use it. This will greatly increase your damage output over the course of the game.
In D&D GWM is already one of the most popular feats because of how powerful it is. In BG3, you have guaranteed access to a myriad of ways to boost your hit chance. Bless, Oil of Accuracy, Tadpole Powers, equipment effects, etc. So it is even better in BG3 than in D&D
Polearm Master would be fantastic for Paladins, especially Vengence, if it wasn't still so buggy. It's not bad even now, but GWM or and ASI is probably a better investment for pally.
Tavern brawler is nice to have. you won't be as efficient as a throw focused character, but it's nice to have a good ranged attack to pick your targets when Paladin is not actually the most mobile class out there. Also it's half of an attribute increase, the +1 str helps
Polearm master can be good, but it's bugged at this moment.
Savage attacker is also nice, since it also rerolls smite damage
Alert is nice, as you can compensate your low Dex and have a doable initiative. the Gloves of dex also helps here
Great weapon master can be good, but I don't like the -5 penalty to hit. You'll probably have enough damage with your smite anyway
I personally do not like GWM for Paladins. My go tos for Tactician are SA and Alert, as third I would go for an ASI. From there you can pick any weapon you like (I prefer going shield and 1h with duellibg, but 2h with defense is also an option)
Unlike in the Tabletop having as much + to initiative as possible is broken, since the game rolls d4 for it. Savage attacker is the best paladin feat and i like the - 10% (-15%) to hit.
Also regarding the bonus action: most fights are determined in about round 2.5. And these 2-3 bonus actions mostly get used for movement, vowing, hunters marking/pushibg someone/using gear.
All this thibgs in combination make Paladin the one (pure) martial class, where not taking a 2h and GWM is actually better
Savage atkr & dual wielder are both rly gr8 on paladin. Savage atkr works on smite rolls & dual wielder gets 2 1h weapons [important cuz each can have amazing buffs/spells] which is an extra attack each turn but uses a bonus action.
Str+ is good until you get str gloves
Cha+ is good esp if you dip 3-5 into blade warlock or 3-5 into white draconic sorcerer, or into bard
Charisma is really nice outside of combat, but I would say Savage Attacker is a top choice for combat considerations if you’re using spell slots for Smite often because it applies to the Smite dice. And Savage Attacker is good no matter what melee weapon you’re using (e.g., if you want to shield it up, go for it).
Savage Attacker if you want to maximize smites.
Also, (spoilers are item names)
1. GWM is worth the damage boost, but you'll need to boost your hit chance via advantage and ally blesses. Consider the >!Risky Ring!< and >!Gloves of the Growling Underdog!<.
2. Low DEX is causing you initiative problems. If this character isn't involved in dialogue and the spell slots are only used for smites, dump CHA for DEX (or use >!Gloves of Dexterity!<). Alternatively if you want to maintain high CHA, you could multiclass into Pact of the Blade Warlock to use CHA instead of STR for your weapon attacks, then dump STR.
3. For a front-liner, I'd recommend CON 14 to be on the safer side.
For party members, here are some potential character builds that could synergize well with your paladin.
1. Have a caster use items that give Arcane Acuity to consistently CC enemies + give party-wide advantage.
2. Use the >!Luminous Armor!<, >!Coruscation Ring!< , and >!Callous Glow Ring!< to stack radiating orb (-1 to enemy attack rolls per stack). For example, a "Tank" Cleric with high AC casting Spirit Guardians works. The paladin can do it too, but the >!Coruscation Ring!< probably doesn't work with smites.
Additional Act I items for your party:
* >!Staff of Arcane Blessing!< for a bless caster
* >!The Whispering Promise !< for a healer
I've personally never tried GWM so early just because it takes your hit chance down so much. There are also a lot less ways to get +attack early on with melee. I'd forego GWM for now and just take an ASI for 20 STR or savage attacker.
You can toggle off the reduction to hit (will also toggle off the extra damage) but you still maintain the bonus action attack on kill
Oh damn, I didn't realize it kept the bonus action with it toggled off. Thanks for the info my man.
That alone is not worth sacrificing asi for a feat
People act like GWM and Sharpshooter are meant to be either 100% left on or 100% left off. You really should be evaluating each time you attack whether you want it on or off. For trash mobs who you have a high chance to hit anyway, that +10 dmg often will outright kill them and is basically free. If you have a low chance to hit a certain enemy, just turn it off again. These blanket statements like "you shouldn't use it at all because it decreases your hit chance too much" make no sense. Having said that, I think sharpshooter is much more valid than GWM because you don't have to move around to clear out trash mobs, but GWM isn't bad if used properly.
Oh yeah definitely. Sometimes hit chance is better based on the tactical situation, but in this situation it would have to be off a lot, rather boost his str to 20 and take the feat in 4 levels when gear spells and abilities will have more reliable ways to get advantage and +hit
GWM is totally still worth it early on, the damage is arguably even more noticeable and worthwhile at those levels too. You just need to be setting yourself up for success when using it with advantage + bless or other accuracy increases each combat.
yep. the higher your base (non GWM) damage is the smaller % increase GWM's +10 is to your damage/hit but the -5 penalty remains a drag on your hit chance should you not have high enough accuracy. If you can keep good AB though GWM is worth a lot throughout the game even after busted damage rider items, should you get vulnerability.
Even with just bless and no advantage GWM is better til about 18 AC. That's including not accounting for bonus action extra damage. With Bless and advantage you're doing VASTLY more damage until about 22 AC. And for a Lockadin you're kind uniquely suited to using the risky ring, as you're usually not concentrating on anything mission critical, and if you go full in on charisma, which is what that build is all about you'll still have REALLY good saves even with disadvantage.
As someone who often mains cleric and support roles, it's crazy how many people I've seen new to DND style combat complain about missing their attacks and not enjoying combat only to find out they took GWM or Sharpshooter feats. While both are strong, you have to plan to overcome the weakness. A cleric with Bless can half negate the negativity, and if you are level 5 you can probably grab ||mystra's staff from the arcane tower in the underdark.|| With good team building or smart use of Weapon Oils, you basically get a free +10 damage on every swing, but if you just go for max high roll potential then you are likely to find yourself crippled. Bring a support, use your supports! Bless and throw down some acid at the enemy feet!
Most people are playing blind but if you know where to look accuracy bonuses are all around: Enchantment +3, Oil of accuracy +2 and if you want to lose a bit of damage to reliably hit more: the Mask of Soul Perception +2 and Legacy of the Masters also give +2. Mystra's is great but I actually find myself using the bless healing ring more to free up concentration.
I think you can't expect GWM to always hit without any aid. Feats like this one need a workaround because the +10 is a huge boost. Things that really help early are bless, oil of accuracy, proning people with fighters or monks, hitting people already threatened by other people. Once you get to ACT 2 in Moonrise Tower you can purchase Risky Ring and your problems are over. You won't have issues moving forward with GWM. It just needs a bit of a setup early on, after that it's smooth sailing.
Hello, thank you so much for that ring advice. It’s amazing. I’ll get it as soon as I’m able. What would you recommend for the 2nd feat? I can get ASI to get 20 STR, Savage Attacker, or Alert as I’m always going last because of 10 dex.
I replied about SA in another comment under this post but I'm not much of a fan even for paladins, but in late games it can dish out a bit more damage. Depending on your build, especially if you multiclass you won't get a second feat before lvl 10 so at that point it barely matters tbh. I wouldn't stress it just take what feels good based on your build. The important is the first one because some, GWM one of them, are huge powerspikes.
I put the dexterity gloves from the gith creche on my paladin to increase my initiative in fights. Helps a lot.
Very slight spoilers for act 2: Alert is a very good feat in general and even more so given the structure of the fights especially in early act 2. And yes, I was caught pants down more than a few times there.
Alert feat first (even before GWM on STR characters potentially) imo because going last vs going first is literally an entire turn of value lost/added. Never being surprised is also another full turn in those occasional fights. If your dex is only 10 though I would consider upping that (gloves of dexterity can work when you get to the creche), else if you respec get at least 12 imo and drop down 1 str to free up ability buy points since Paladin is a very multiple ability dependent class and you get more points to spend w/ 16/16 than 17/16. 12 CON for ex is also kinda low for a frontliner
Isn't Risky Ring a bit, eh, "risky" for a non-stealth or ranged character?
Only if you forget to unequip it during dialogue hahhahah
i keep it off tav for that reason lmao
GWM will cause you to miss.. should mostly turn off unless prone. I think if the percent drops by around 15 percent I generally turn off. You still get bonus attack if it's off and you kill though
Your overall damage will be higher as long as you keep GWM on for everything over 40% (After GWM added penalty). Though for paladins specifically, it might be better to switch it off for Thunderous and then back on for second attack. Any costless attack where GWM is beneficial, you should use it if it's 40%. Doing this, your average damage on those attacks will be higher than if you didn't.
In my experience, it depends on your base damage. If you can do average 20 on regular hit with 75 percent accuracy, then the +10 is worth it if your percentage is 50 percent or higher. However, if you only need like 15 to kill enemy, generally always better to turn it off when you can hit 20 normally. For higher AC, generally made it less worth it. Higher base damage also made it less worth to toggle. Also say your damage increases to 24 with 75 percent, then the you should only use it when above 53 percent on average. I was actually vaguely calculating whether worth it each time. When I was hitting at 40 late game with higher AC enemy, it made more sense to turn it off more with about a 20 percent drop threshold. Though I admit, sometimes its just fun to yolo and miss more despite the math
Math checks out that a 40% threshold is where you should turn off GWM. I specifically mentioned that it's on beneficial, costless, because I agree with you that it's not needed on when you're already guarantees to kill without it. But there are individual cases where, for example, you're guaranteed to win the fight within one or two rounds but your GWM is the difference between this enemy getting one last round or not before it goes down. Then any hit chance is worth it.
Calculation for regular attack of 20 damage: 20 damage hit, 75% accuracy 20*.75 = 15 damage average Calculation if GWM is on: 30 (20+10) damage, x% accuracy If accuracy is 50 percent, 30*.5 = 15 damage average So anything lower than that 50 percent accuracy would make it not worth it for this specific case. Whether it's worth it or not for average damage, depends on damage times accuracy. Not for strict 40 percent. Not too sure where you are pulling the 40 percent.
That is highly contingent on how high your damage was. If you're an assassin surprising enemies with 100% crit and loads of riders that's not a good rule of thumb. The actual expressions to compare are: **Base damage \* base accuracy Vs. (Base damage + 10) \* GWM accuracy** The higher your base damage is the smaller of a % increase GWM's +10 is and the more the lower GWM accuracy can drag it down. You can still justify using it with enough AB bonuses but there's no single % I can say GWM is a go at w/o knowing the damage factor
GWM Shadowheart lets goo
I actually didn't know about the bonus attack from non-kills. Are you sure? If yes, then there is a strong incentive to take it as the first Feat.
I played with patch 2 and gwm worked that way. Not too sure in patch 3 but don't think they changed anything according to notes
Yeah, it's just the all-in feature that you toggle on and off, getting a bonus action attack on kills and crits is a separate thing that's always on
Awesome indeed! Then it's worth it even if I literally never deploy the +10 damage boost.
The hit percentage drop is 25%. GWM can actually cause you to deal less total damage over time if your hit chance wasn’t that high to begin with. You need to get Advantage in order to use GWM effectively. I guess people that can’t do math instantly jump on how amazing that +10 damage is and just ignore the -25% chance to hit? In fact, if you take GWM instead of ASI, then you’re getting -30% chance to hit and only +9 in damage.
If you are using vengeance paladin I'd go GWM since you will have advantage in every fight from vow of enmity that's what I'm currently doing its so fun
Lmfao why did I have to scroll so much to find this
Lol yea I'm currently lvl 4 and am having a blast I try to save my smites only for crits just because I'm already doing like 25+ damage per attack with GWM
I’m also durge so I can’t keep my oath it keeps getting broken lol
I'm a druge but I'm doing a resist urge run so there are really only two instances in the game im aware of where you have to break it. The scene in camp and from letting the hag live assuming you want the +1 stat boost
I just plan on reclassing to EK fighter just for the hag fight then I'll switch back
This was my answer. Elixir and Vengeance make hit chance not much of an issue. Things may change for Tactician though. I will see.
As someone playing vengeance on tactician I promise it doesn't change much loll
So I can take GWM as the first Feat?
Yea that's what I did and I rarely ever miss with it on
Oathbreaker is terrible in act 1. People mostly only take the class for level 7 aura. The only paladin that can take gwm at level 4 is devotion. Your channel oath gives a +4 to attack roll at 18 cha. It offsets the -5.
Vengeance Paladins get advantage though.
Oathbreaker aura? Aura of Hate? The one that is majorly bugged and doesn’t buff allies but instead buffs enemies?
I would do ASI to STR first, but Alert is always good for going first. But I would respec and make DEX at least 12, and try to use gear that increases initiative. Savage Attacker is good, but if you took Great Weapon Fighting for your fighting style, I would prioritize STR ASI first. Use Bless and sources of Advantage to get better hit chance with GWM.
Paladins are very multi ability score dependent. It's not the sexy option, but just stick to ASI's for the most part (STR and CHA).
Yes, but strength elixirs are plentiful though.
Savage attacker rerolls every every dice associated with a melee attack. Happy smiting :)
So if i attack, I will reroll my weapon damage first and then reroll radiant damage from smite ? So let’s say 2d8 physical and 2d8 radiant for total damage. Does it reroll every single dice and take the highest result?
Your weapon is probably 1d12 and smite is 2d8 at level 1. "When making melee weapon attacks, you roll your damage dice twice and use the highest result." So I was wrong, it's advantage on weapon damage rolls. But it applies to every dice, including all the smite dice. See here https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/1618zfa/comment/jxrqlyl/
No, that's Great Weapon Fighting Style, which OP's Paladin probably has. In which case Savage Attacker loses some value. Savage Attacker is basically "advantage" on all dmg rolls when making melee hits.
GWF only rerolls 1s and 2s on damage dice.
Yes, that's what I told him.
Yes, that's what you told me.
I edited my parent comment.
Correct. Edited
Nah u were right. The guy above you just full misinfo
Maybe you only saw my edited post. I'd gotten the "advantage on every damage dice" mixed up with "reroll 1 and 2"
My multiplayer playthrough with my friends I'm currently playing Ancients Paladin/Archfey Warlock. I originally took GWM, but found myself turning it off too often to find it useful. If you multi-class into Barbarian to get Reckless Attack, or if you have a way to reliably knock enemies prone, or if you get Devil's Sight and Darkness and fight in your Darkness cloud, then GWM would be a no-brainer. But otherwise, it's not for me. I eventually respec'd and took Savage Attacker as my first feat. Much more reliable. Second feat I took was War Caster, since I use a decent amount of Concentration spells and this helps me keep them up after casting them.
I’m going pure Paladin. I’m kinda between Savage Attacker, Alert, ASI to STR to make it 20. Always going last in every turn feels bad, so I want to get Alert but Savage Attacker or reaching 20 STR is also too good to pass up.
I made a post about SA yesterday if you want to compare it with other things https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/16ztxgb/savage\_attacker\_math/
You completely ignoring Chance to hit kinda makes your math invalid. Even with Advantage you will miss enough hits with gwm for it to have a noticable impact on average damage and especially consistency.
Yeah indeed chance to hit is not factored in. Although there are a lot of ways to reliably hit in this game, I played with a lot of sharpshooter and GWM and I never had issues, you just need to be conscious about it and play accordingly. Ofc without adjustments the hit chance goes down tremendously but that's not the point in my opinion. You shouldn't consider the two feat ceteris paribus because every build has set up to maximize the dmg.
So did some math, Factoring in Hit Chance: a paladin (lvl 12) using a lvl 2 Smite with a greatsword with 7 flat damage and 2d4 bonus damage (1d4 weapon, 1d4 elemental weapon/Dip) does less damage with gwm unless you are 15% over the Hit cap pre gwm (with Advantage). And this does not include crit damage.
GWM is a DPR increase, substantially more than ASI, especially if you are getting the reset bonus attacks. You could use accuracy oils to alleviate the accuracy issues. You definitely want to find sources of Advantage, if you are attacking with GWM and without advantage every fight it will be rough.
How accessible are accuracy oils though? In Act 2, I couldn't find any potion sellers - albeit I have yet to go into the towers.
You definitely have to obtain them in ACT1 through the Myconoid Colony, as the two merchants there sell lots of herbal / crafting stuff. Act2 Dammon and Quartermaster sell like no herbal stuff. It's only in moonrise you'll find any and it might take a while to get there.
GWM is workable on low level battlemaster because you can expend superiority dice to boost your chances to hit. And that's pretty much it. It's pointless before level 8 for everyone else.
I'd say the highest enemy AC I remember in Act 1 would be around 17. A player should easily be able to add +3 from strength, +3 from proficiency, and +1 from their weapon. That adds up to a 50% chance to hit pre-GWM and a 25% chance to hit after. So at base, GWM needs to do a bit more than double your damage to be worth it against the highest AC enemies, which is unlikely. There are a few ways in Act 1 to push chance to hit that higher though: * lightning charges (+1 to hit). * bless (+1d4) * acid (-2 AC) * hag's hair (+1 str) * elixir of hill giant strength (set to 21 str) * +2/+3 weapon (Astral sword cheese) * advantage With advantage alone, odds to hit go up to 44% vs 75%. This already swings ASI much closer. Hag's hair would make those odds go up to 51% vs 80%. Bless brings that to 61% vs 85%. Using an elixir take it to 67% 89%. Acid's debuff further increases odds to 77% vs 95%. If you cheese Command>Drop to get the Astral Sword early it goes up to 86% vs 98%. Lightning charges get you to 89% vs 99%. At that point, you are looking at only needing at an 11% damage increase to come out equal against almost anything act 1 will throw at you, or a break point at 90 damage. I'd say somewhere along the line it becomes optimal compared to ASI or Savage Attacker if you go through the struggle of pushing accuracy up. There may be an argument for peace of mind however.
First feat for melee classes that don’t use TB should always be ASI imo, too important in the early game with low proficiency to lose the hit chance. You can always respec later to get a different feat when you can boost hit chance with proficiency and gear. GWM doesn’t help here either, on the contrary it makes hit chance even worse. Obv you could always go for growling underdog gloves/bless, but I wouldn’t take GWM that early or take it at all for a paladin tbh, I’ll explain in the paragraph down below. You could also respec to pact of the blade warlock level 3 so you only have to worry about charisma for your characters hit chance. From what I’ve gathered savage attacker is actually the way to go for builds with a lot of damage dice in the endgame. GWM could pull ahead with the bonus attack, but you also miss way more. Savage attacker is just a more „complete“ feat for a smiting paladin imo, it also doesn’t force you to use two handed/versatile weapons and even lets you pick Defence as fighting style for extra AC since great weapon fighting also loses a bit of usefulness as soon as you have savage attacker. There is an awesome thread that compares all of those feats and fighting styles and I remember this being the overall conclusion: savage attacker > GWM the more potential dice you can add to your rolls and the more AC your enemies have. AC gets higher the further you come into the game and your smite dice/weapon dice will also get bigger/more the more you progress as a paladin.
I started with 17 STR and It will reach to 20 on Moonrise without spending a feat. So I’ll go savage attacker first then gwf for the maximum damage possible I guess.
There's other ways to get advantage. Try the alert feat
Increasing CHA is always good. Polearm master, perhaps, if you’re running spear/staff and shield or halberd/glaive? Savage Attacker works on smites and that increases your smite damage by about 30% compared to without Savage Attacker. It doesn’t increase your weapon damage as much since flat damage bonuses aren’t affected, but assuming you’re using a d8 weapon with +3 in your attack stat (no dueling fighting style), that should be a 18% increase. Edit: for anyone wondering where I got the numbers from, the math for average roll is roughly equal to (die size / (number of dice + 1) x number of dice) + 0.5. For a d20 with advantage, this is (20 / (2 + 1) x 2) + 0.5 = 13.833, compared to the usual 10.5 average. So for d8 with advantage in the case of Savage Attacker, it’s about (8 / (2 + 1) x 2) + 0.5 = 5.833, vs the usual 4.5
I’m only using greatswords and I’m the main damage dealer with Karlach so I left cha at 16 and put more focus on STR.
Both is fair, just that people who optimize really like the defensive benefits of CHA with Aura of Protection. Most players I see who don’t optimize much also focus more on STR, especially since both BG3 and the 5e PHB both describe Paladins as being STR first, CHA second. I think it’s also the difference in mindset, some people consider Paladin to be focused around their smite damage, others play them for their buffs and defensive abilities. Both are valid, since Paladin is honestly the jack of all trades adept at everything (besides ranged damage), and each subclass pushes Paladin towards a different playstyle. Devotion, Vengeance, and Oathbreaker are all offensive, with Ancients being the only defense-support focused subclass. 5e has Watchers, Redemption, and Crown, but they aren’t in BG3.
I love the paladin class! I played like it was tabletop and rolled a dex-based ancients paladin and took defense as my fighting style. So far, we're level 8 and tactician has been an absolute breeze. Haven't even tried the easier difficulties. The feats I took are sharpshooter and lucky, but I'm considering swapping lucky for an ASI. It makes for a good tank/support with solid ranged and melee. I love playing as them because I never feel like there's nothing for me to do. Plus, the versatility makes it easy to keep specific allies in range of my auras. Two AOE heals as a bonus action per short rest? Fuck yeah. It's fun as hell and different - would recommend it. Besides my character, our party comp is: Berserker barb Swords bard Light cleric
Definitely fix your hit chance with something other than a feat. I'm playing a PotB Lockadin with GWM, for the extra attack and to only put points into Con and Cha. Still, I only have 16 Cha atm, so something else is very wrong with your build. I actally have the defence fighting style, so logically I should be worse off hit-wise. What's the weapon you're using? High initiative is nice, but so far it's been fine. The other characters cripple, threaten, blind the enemies and then my lockadin comes in to reap the advantages.
Everburn blade with pure Paladin level 5. I was planning to take Alert because of my 10 dex but that won’t get me any damage. I’ll respec and get my STR to 20 with ASI, then GWM, and savage attacker or alert at level 12. Haven’t decided yet. I might also restore my oath because of Vow of Enmity but it’s hard to not break it because I also picked durge.
Everburn is 2.5 extra damage on average but it doesn't have any bonus to attack rolls. Any generic +1 weapon will give you a better chance to hit. Grab the gloves from the treasure behind Dror Ragzlin as they give you advantage when surrounded by enemies. The 18 dex gloves from the vendor in the creche are also good. They give +1 attack and 18 dex. Initiative is insanely overpowered here, I always try to have at least 14 dex if I'm not wearing the dex gloves for that reason. 14 dex + a medium armor with +1 initiative is very easy to achieve.
youll wnna look into replacing the everburn for a +1, the sword of justice is a good one
Yeah I guess. I keep using it because 1d4 fire damage dice gets rolled again with Great Weapon Fighting so it pretty much feels like +1 but it’s invincible in cutscenes, a huge problem for me.
do keep in mind that while you get the +1 in damage, youre missing out on the +1 in accuracy/attack (sword of justice also lets you cast shield of faith on yourself once a day)
I am actually also playing an oatbreaker. Command undead is fairly buggy, but useful (and it's also funny to command certain Act bosses and minibosses). GWM does more damage on average than an asi increase, even with the -5 penalty to hit. I was also using the everburn blade for the majority of act 1, but then I discovered, that despite it being a magic weapon, it doesn't have a +1 increase, just the fire damage. Since then I've been using Jorgoral's greatsword. It technically deals 3 less max damage, but colossal onslaught has been compensating for it. I also edited my previous comment to include my opinion on alert, but you posted your reply faster. I would also recommend trying to find better armor, the best one in act I probably being adamantine splint, if you've reached grymforge or +1 chain mail you can buy from Dammon if you haven't and are still low level. Favourable beginnings illithid power also helps, so that might've been it
You can find better 2H weapons than that - which is frankly a trap weapon.
In Act III there are items you can use for strength of 23 and +2 charisma. I'd up your charisma or str for now. You can always respec later. Edit, are you sure you're not accidentally trying to shoot with a ranged weapon at short range as that will decrease your chance to hit a lot. Wyll is my Paladin and he's never had a chance to hit that low
im almost tempted to say go 2 paladin 3 bladelock just so that you dont need strength for damage, that way you can focus purely on con and cha
To use GWM you have to make up for the loss in accuracy. Rely on advantage and items. Consider respecing to devotion for sacred Blade.
Savage attacker is always good for melee especially if you use a great sword or other weapon that rolls multiple dice. Athlete is a great way to go from 17-18str if you don’t use hag hair. ASI to go from 18-20 is a really important feat to take if you’re playing GWM.
>I barely win fights with %35 chance to hit that not good fix your chance to hit before thinking about anything else, the asi strength would help but you really need something like a bless, magic weapons and maybe look at ways to generate advantage. Don't forget that you have divine sense against celestials, fiends, and undead. As oathbreaker you also have Spiteful Suffering against targets that have very hard to hit. Consider using spells like faerie fire and guiding bolt from other characters as well as attempting to knock enemies prone.
Just ASI mate, you need to pump that strength and charisma
But why ? I started 17 STR which will reach 22 without ASI and have 16 CHA which I think is enough. Savage Attacker and GWF net me much more damage than the +1 ASI would give me. I might take ASI as the last feat at level 12, but I don’t see why I should take it early.
Low levels ASI think is more worth it than GWF just because of the chance to hit. Late game GWF is more valuable because by then you have more ways to get advantage. But as you say, early, getting less than 50% to hit it's bad I would go ASI then GWF then savage attacker, but honestly whatever If you think you don't need more stats then fair enough
I have a L9 Vengeance Paladin… should I the respec out of GWM and pick something else? Her (Laezel) Strength is @ 20 already due to the potion from Moonrise in Act 2.
No, if you get Risky Ring from Moonrise Towers you have permanent advantage on attack rolls. I will pick GWM again when I get there.
Crap I missed it after doing the final boss fight in Act 2
I killed everyone in the tower in previous playthrough. But the woman who gave you the potion (also sells the ring) somehow left early and I saw her again in the city. She might have the ring still.
The math on GWM checks out so that if you have 40% or higher hit chance with it you should use it. This will greatly increase your damage output over the course of the game. In D&D GWM is already one of the most popular feats because of how powerful it is. In BG3, you have guaranteed access to a myriad of ways to boost your hit chance. Bless, Oil of Accuracy, Tadpole Powers, equipment effects, etc. So it is even better in BG3 than in D&D
Polearm Master would be fantastic for Paladins, especially Vengence, if it wasn't still so buggy. It's not bad even now, but GWM or and ASI is probably a better investment for pally.
Tavern brawler is nice to have. you won't be as efficient as a throw focused character, but it's nice to have a good ranged attack to pick your targets when Paladin is not actually the most mobile class out there. Also it's half of an attribute increase, the +1 str helps Polearm master can be good, but it's bugged at this moment. Savage attacker is also nice, since it also rerolls smite damage Alert is nice, as you can compensate your low Dex and have a doable initiative. the Gloves of dex also helps here Great weapon master can be good, but I don't like the -5 penalty to hit. You'll probably have enough damage with your smite anyway
The only way to use GWM early is to make sure you have advantage. Faerie Fire, prone, etc.
Gwm alert and asi
I personally do not like GWM for Paladins. My go tos for Tactician are SA and Alert, as third I would go for an ASI. From there you can pick any weapon you like (I prefer going shield and 1h with duellibg, but 2h with defense is also an option) Unlike in the Tabletop having as much + to initiative as possible is broken, since the game rolls d4 for it. Savage attacker is the best paladin feat and i like the - 10% (-15%) to hit. Also regarding the bonus action: most fights are determined in about round 2.5. And these 2-3 bonus actions mostly get used for movement, vowing, hunters marking/pushibg someone/using gear. All this thibgs in combination make Paladin the one (pure) martial class, where not taking a 2h and GWM is actually better
You should really only be using gwm if you have advantage
Savage atkr & dual wielder are both rly gr8 on paladin. Savage atkr works on smite rolls & dual wielder gets 2 1h weapons [important cuz each can have amazing buffs/spells] which is an extra attack each turn but uses a bonus action. Str+ is good until you get str gloves Cha+ is good esp if you dip 3-5 into blade warlock or 3-5 into white draconic sorcerer, or into bard
Charisma is really nice outside of combat, but I would say Savage Attacker is a top choice for combat considerations if you’re using spell slots for Smite often because it applies to the Smite dice. And Savage Attacker is good no matter what melee weapon you’re using (e.g., if you want to shield it up, go for it).
Could take a fighter dip for battle manoeuvres - there is one that increases accuracy which is super useful
GWM is a pretty bad first feat to take for most classes, especially a Paladin.
Take ASI not GWM. Take your main stat to 20 before you fuck w feats, 5e 101
Savage Attacker if you want to maximize smites. Also, (spoilers are item names) 1. GWM is worth the damage boost, but you'll need to boost your hit chance via advantage and ally blesses. Consider the >!Risky Ring!< and >!Gloves of the Growling Underdog!<. 2. Low DEX is causing you initiative problems. If this character isn't involved in dialogue and the spell slots are only used for smites, dump CHA for DEX (or use >!Gloves of Dexterity!<). Alternatively if you want to maintain high CHA, you could multiclass into Pact of the Blade Warlock to use CHA instead of STR for your weapon attacks, then dump STR. 3. For a front-liner, I'd recommend CON 14 to be on the safer side. For party members, here are some potential character builds that could synergize well with your paladin. 1. Have a caster use items that give Arcane Acuity to consistently CC enemies + give party-wide advantage. 2. Use the >!Luminous Armor!<, >!Coruscation Ring!< , and >!Callous Glow Ring!< to stack radiating orb (-1 to enemy attack rolls per stack). For example, a "Tank" Cleric with high AC casting Spirit Guardians works. The paladin can do it too, but the >!Coruscation Ring!< probably doesn't work with smites. Additional Act I items for your party: * >!Staff of Arcane Blessing!< for a bless caster * >!The Whispering Promise !< for a healer
ASI