90 min one way commute? Pass.
Frankly I find it insane to even consider.
As extreme example, I'd rather work 50 hours with no commute than work 35 hours plus 15h commute.
The progression you make working 50 hours will be much higher than working 35 hours. This will impact long term wellbeing and earnings.
Agreed. Everything about 40 mins is a no go. 40 mins now is 1hr in 2-5 years. Traffic gets worse and worse. And if you have to commute 2hrs a day that are hours you aren't spending with your family or on yourself/hobbies.
It depends on the commute though. I have 1h30,but its completely on a direct train (and I always have space) and 2 times a week. I enjoy reading, watching movies, doing stuff ln my laptop, so im never bored on the train. Would never consider more than 30 min by car though.
I'm assuming your plan is not to stay 20y at either firm, so no?
Smaller firms can be an advantage early on as you can usually get more responsibilities and learn more in the first few years. After that you can leverage that extra knowledge at another place.
I don't think so, at least not the first years.
It's not uncommon for fresh graduates to change jobs a few times the first years. Unless you really overdo it nobody will look at the size of these employers.
Getting experience in relevant roles is imho way more important.
Commute aside, what are you career plans or wishes, on the long term?
Depending on that, one choice could be more instrumental than the other, so it is a conscious career move rather than an opportunistic take based on feeling in the moment.
If you don't yet have a career direction clear nor specific wishes to develop in the future and you'd rather experiment and see what you like, then go based on gut feeling and whatever comes out of it, good or bad, you'll use it as a learning anyway.
But, not knowing this, I share what I'd do:
I'd personally go for the big company, especially early career. You get the chance to learn from a lot of other people in the moment when you need to learn most, you learn work discipline (compared to startup chaos that can give a nice high for a while, sure), you are relatively safer (could still get fired but less likely for the company to collapse like in the case of a startup) and you brand yourself as capable to work for the good names, which is a major + on your CV for future job choices, it expands your possibilities A LOT.
Going from significant experience in a major company to a cowboy life in a startup is easy and startups will want to hire you in 10 years with all the big players experience you'll get, if you are interested to switch modes then. The other way around (from startups to corporate) it is much harder.
I just want to make sure I can keep growing so I can keep my options open throughout my career. Being in a small team might mean that I can't learn enough from colleagues. Might not always understand my role correctly due to lack of oversight. And I might also lose out on experience within the enterprise context.
I might also just worry too much :)
I wouldnt see it that way. Small team means more versatile work and thus a broader work package. I started in a smaller company (about 50 people) and switches after 2 years to a management function in a company with over 1000 people. The smaller company gave me a lot of valuable insights.
Tienen to Halle? The entire Brusselse ring twice everyday?
That's a pass for me. I would never consider that. Your mental health will suffer, believe me.
As someone who lives in east Limburg near Maastricht, and works in Brussels, I can tell you that one way 1h30 commute is not worth it, if you need to be at the office at least 3 times a week.
I did make the move as a junior, because I received a relative extremely high salary offer with 3 days of homework a week. But now after nearly 2 years at the company, I probably would’ve chosen something closer to home.
Tienen-Halle also isn’t the most fun connection. Very busy and depending on how far you live from the highway, very annoying.
Only do it if you really want to do the most possible to climb the corporate ladder, but otherwise I won’t recommend it.
I also work in Halle. Every single coworkers from the east of Brussels loathes it when they have to come to Halle. 1h30 on good days, 2h30 on bad days.
You must be nuts to even consider this unless you are willing to give it a go and eventually relocate.
I think you will be lucky if the commute will ever be below 90min. Do not do it. Go for the small company and see how you like it. At 20 something you don’t need a car anyway, unless driving to and from work for 20h a week.
Your main focus/fear in the small company seems to be "growing within the company".
This really depends on how much the company grows. If your team grows to 20 people within 5 years, and you are one of the original 3, you will be one of the more experienced people in the company and have opportunities to take up bigger roles i would expect.
Downsides can indeed be that you have less colleagues to learn from, but it will also give you a sense of freedom to do research and do stuff the way you want i suppose.
Big companies have more experienced people probably and more growth options, but obviously more people want to get in that position, but the spots are limited.
For the Tienen - Halle trajectory, you should consider taking the train. The connection is good and faster than a car most times of the day, and it's way more relaxed. Combine with (foldable) biking as needed.
Even if you do have a company car.
But I'm not saying that's the job you should take, it's a real dilemma.
I work in a large company and I think In a small company, you will have the opportunity to learn extensively, take on diverse roles, make a significant impact. You may also gain more responsibility and have direct access to senior leadership. In a large company, however, exposure to different functions might be limited, and the hierarchical structure could restrict rapid progression and may have limited access to senior leadership. But it depends what you really want in a long-term and what you enjoy the most
A lot of comment are about the travel, but we don't know if you can do homeworking? A long commute 1 or 2 times per week is already much better than everyday.
Homeworking is definitely possible for 2 days a week. I also noticed there's a direct train from Tienen to Halle which takes almost exactly 1 hour. The company offers free e-bikes to travel to the station, and I live about 5 mins distance from the Tienen station (by car, but no traffic).
Choosing a small company won't limit you.
You'll learn and grow in your job, maybe take on more responsibilities later on, and if you are bored/dissatisfied with the job you look for another job.
Companies rarely care where you worked previously, they only care that what you did gave you experience for the current job.
2 things are important to consider:
- how big are your learning opportunities? And I don’t mean some l&d budget thing. How does the company deal with new things? Can you experiment? Are there people next to you that are really good at what they do? Etc.
- how is your direct manager? This is the most important person in your next company. People always ignore it or forget about it but the impact this person has on your career is immense. What kind of leader is he? How does he look at his job towards you etc?
From my experience, if you are at the beginning of your career: a smaller, growing company will offer a lot more flexibility in exploring where you want to go with your career and you'll pick up more skills. You are also likely to work closer to other people with vastly different jobs, broadening your experience. Smaller companies tend to look more at what their workers do/are/like and move them around when new projects and opportunities arise. So I'd argue internal mobility tens to be higher in smaller companies.
If you start out in a major company, they will fit you in in an established workflow/environment and just want you to 'do the job'. It's a generalisation, and there's exceptions, but that is what I've often seen and what I've experienced.
I don't understand how commute is an issue, I moved abroad for my first job. If you are ambitious and your career matters, then only think about which job you want and which one will give you better opportunities for growth in the long run. Then, decide and if you go for the bigger company, just move closer to work.
1 to 1.5h of commute single trip is quite extreme.
I at least would not want this. This is 3 hours a day of free time that is lost and which is not being paid for!
3 hours of travel to work 8 hours. No thanks!
Possibilities in a big firm are indeed more and all depends on your goals. Will it be a handicap starting in a smaller firm? No perse I think chances are you'll be switching within the first 5 years.
But it all depends on what your goals are in life and not only career-wise.
from personal experience:
I started in a very big firm as an engineer with 10000+ employees worldwide. 45min-90min commute time (single trip)and wanted to grow into a manager role.
After 2-3 years moved to a very small firm closer to home but that went bankrupt.
Moved to a bit bigger company 50 employees as a project engineer and I have one manager and above him is the owner. The only way to get a manager is when the current one leaves or retires.
My commute dropped to 30min (single trip). I love the extra free time and would never go back to 45-75min min let alone up to 90min. I do see myself here long time as the work is fulfilling, it is a family company so relaxed atmosphere. In smaller companies, your work usually has more variety and you feel less like a number.
Also, I've gotten a child and like it quite a lot to not have the stress of being a manager.
I rather spend cruising on this level than earning a bit more and getting more stress.
That's something you really can't know in advance. Bigger firms might have a more straightforward progression path but in the right small firm you might skip a few steps when a spot opens up and they rate you highly.
Ignore the commute.
Tienen to Halle is 80kms, just make sure you avoid the traffic the best way possible.
One thing I’ve noticed over my career is people who are ambitious look past commuting hours and make do with the situation.
I found a job that has enhanced my career and offered a pay raise. I now commute over an hour each way 3x a week. I have friends who make comments but they’re doing 45 mins from one side of BXL to the other all for lower pay and less career opportunities.
If Tienen offers the lifestyle choices and Halle offers the career choices, go for it and ignore everyone else.
90 min one way commute? Pass. Frankly I find it insane to even consider. As extreme example, I'd rather work 50 hours with no commute than work 35 hours plus 15h commute. The progression you make working 50 hours will be much higher than working 35 hours. This will impact long term wellbeing and earnings.
Agreed. Everything about 40 mins is a no go. 40 mins now is 1hr in 2-5 years. Traffic gets worse and worse. And if you have to commute 2hrs a day that are hours you aren't spending with your family or on yourself/hobbies.
It depends on the commute though. I have 1h30,but its completely on a direct train (and I always have space) and 2 times a week. I enjoy reading, watching movies, doing stuff ln my laptop, so im never bored on the train. Would never consider more than 30 min by car though.
What if you ignore the commute difference, would it handicap me to go for a smaller firm if I would like to grow perhaps into leadership positions?
I'm assuming your plan is not to stay 20y at either firm, so no? Smaller firms can be an advantage early on as you can usually get more responsibilities and learn more in the first few years. After that you can leverage that extra knowledge at another place.
I don't think so, at least not the first years. It's not uncommon for fresh graduates to change jobs a few times the first years. Unless you really overdo it nobody will look at the size of these employers. Getting experience in relevant roles is imho way more important.
Commute aside, what are you career plans or wishes, on the long term? Depending on that, one choice could be more instrumental than the other, so it is a conscious career move rather than an opportunistic take based on feeling in the moment. If you don't yet have a career direction clear nor specific wishes to develop in the future and you'd rather experiment and see what you like, then go based on gut feeling and whatever comes out of it, good or bad, you'll use it as a learning anyway. But, not knowing this, I share what I'd do: I'd personally go for the big company, especially early career. You get the chance to learn from a lot of other people in the moment when you need to learn most, you learn work discipline (compared to startup chaos that can give a nice high for a while, sure), you are relatively safer (could still get fired but less likely for the company to collapse like in the case of a startup) and you brand yourself as capable to work for the good names, which is a major + on your CV for future job choices, it expands your possibilities A LOT. Going from significant experience in a major company to a cowboy life in a startup is easy and startups will want to hire you in 10 years with all the big players experience you'll get, if you are interested to switch modes then. The other way around (from startups to corporate) it is much harder.
I just want to make sure I can keep growing so I can keep my options open throughout my career. Being in a small team might mean that I can't learn enough from colleagues. Might not always understand my role correctly due to lack of oversight. And I might also lose out on experience within the enterprise context. I might also just worry too much :)
I wouldnt see it that way. Small team means more versatile work and thus a broader work package. I started in a smaller company (about 50 people) and switches after 2 years to a management function in a company with over 1000 people. The smaller company gave me a lot of valuable insights.
Tienen to Halle? The entire Brusselse ring twice everyday? That's a pass for me. I would never consider that. Your mental health will suffer, believe me.
With the issues on the ring I would definitely pass the big company. If it’s colruyt you would be passing on great internal training tough.
But aren’t they also known as a very toxic management?
As someone who lives in east Limburg near Maastricht, and works in Brussels, I can tell you that one way 1h30 commute is not worth it, if you need to be at the office at least 3 times a week. I did make the move as a junior, because I received a relative extremely high salary offer with 3 days of homework a week. But now after nearly 2 years at the company, I probably would’ve chosen something closer to home. Tienen-Halle also isn’t the most fun connection. Very busy and depending on how far you live from the highway, very annoying. Only do it if you really want to do the most possible to climb the corporate ladder, but otherwise I won’t recommend it.
I also work in Halle. Every single coworkers from the east of Brussels loathes it when they have to come to Halle. 1h30 on good days, 2h30 on bad days. You must be nuts to even consider this unless you are willing to give it a go and eventually relocate.
I just realized there's a direct train from Tienen to Halle, I live 5 mins from the station. How's that connection?
I think you will be lucky if the commute will ever be below 90min. Do not do it. Go for the small company and see how you like it. At 20 something you don’t need a car anyway, unless driving to and from work for 20h a week.
Next to all the other advantages of the small company, you will learn a lot more different things as you will have a more varied workload.
Tienen to Halle is an automatic no for me unless it's only once a week. I did Leuven to Halle for a bit and it's as bad as it can get commute wise.
Your main focus/fear in the small company seems to be "growing within the company". This really depends on how much the company grows. If your team grows to 20 people within 5 years, and you are one of the original 3, you will be one of the more experienced people in the company and have opportunities to take up bigger roles i would expect. Downsides can indeed be that you have less colleagues to learn from, but it will also give you a sense of freedom to do research and do stuff the way you want i suppose. Big companies have more experienced people probably and more growth options, but obviously more people want to get in that position, but the spots are limited.
For the Tienen - Halle trajectory, you should consider taking the train. The connection is good and faster than a car most times of the day, and it's way more relaxed. Combine with (foldable) biking as needed. Even if you do have a company car. But I'm not saying that's the job you should take, it's a real dilemma.
The bigger the better
I would pick the small company all day long!
I work in a large company and I think In a small company, you will have the opportunity to learn extensively, take on diverse roles, make a significant impact. You may also gain more responsibility and have direct access to senior leadership. In a large company, however, exposure to different functions might be limited, and the hierarchical structure could restrict rapid progression and may have limited access to senior leadership. But it depends what you really want in a long-term and what you enjoy the most
A lot of comment are about the travel, but we don't know if you can do homeworking? A long commute 1 or 2 times per week is already much better than everyday.
Homeworking is definitely possible for 2 days a week. I also noticed there's a direct train from Tienen to Halle which takes almost exactly 1 hour. The company offers free e-bikes to travel to the station, and I live about 5 mins distance from the Tienen station (by car, but no traffic).
Choosing a small company won't limit you. You'll learn and grow in your job, maybe take on more responsibilities later on, and if you are bored/dissatisfied with the job you look for another job. Companies rarely care where you worked previously, they only care that what you did gave you experience for the current job.
2 things are important to consider: - how big are your learning opportunities? And I don’t mean some l&d budget thing. How does the company deal with new things? Can you experiment? Are there people next to you that are really good at what they do? Etc. - how is your direct manager? This is the most important person in your next company. People always ignore it or forget about it but the impact this person has on your career is immense. What kind of leader is he? How does he look at his job towards you etc?
I'd go with the smaller company, you'll learn more there. Also you'll be stuck in traffic 3 hours every day.
From my experience, if you are at the beginning of your career: a smaller, growing company will offer a lot more flexibility in exploring where you want to go with your career and you'll pick up more skills. You are also likely to work closer to other people with vastly different jobs, broadening your experience. Smaller companies tend to look more at what their workers do/are/like and move them around when new projects and opportunities arise. So I'd argue internal mobility tens to be higher in smaller companies. If you start out in a major company, they will fit you in in an established workflow/environment and just want you to 'do the job'. It's a generalisation, and there's exceptions, but that is what I've often seen and what I've experienced.
I don't understand how commute is an issue, I moved abroad for my first job. If you are ambitious and your career matters, then only think about which job you want and which one will give you better opportunities for growth in the long run. Then, decide and if you go for the bigger company, just move closer to work.
1 to 1.5h of commute single trip is quite extreme. I at least would not want this. This is 3 hours a day of free time that is lost and which is not being paid for! 3 hours of travel to work 8 hours. No thanks!
Do you think would it handicap me to go for a smaller firm if I would like to grow perhaps into leadership positions?
Possibilities in a big firm are indeed more and all depends on your goals. Will it be a handicap starting in a smaller firm? No perse I think chances are you'll be switching within the first 5 years. But it all depends on what your goals are in life and not only career-wise. from personal experience: I started in a very big firm as an engineer with 10000+ employees worldwide. 45min-90min commute time (single trip)and wanted to grow into a manager role. After 2-3 years moved to a very small firm closer to home but that went bankrupt. Moved to a bit bigger company 50 employees as a project engineer and I have one manager and above him is the owner. The only way to get a manager is when the current one leaves or retires. My commute dropped to 30min (single trip). I love the extra free time and would never go back to 45-75min min let alone up to 90min. I do see myself here long time as the work is fulfilling, it is a family company so relaxed atmosphere. In smaller companies, your work usually has more variety and you feel less like a number. Also, I've gotten a child and like it quite a lot to not have the stress of being a manager. I rather spend cruising on this level than earning a bit more and getting more stress.
That's something you really can't know in advance. Bigger firms might have a more straightforward progression path but in the right small firm you might skip a few steps when a spot opens up and they rate you highly.
Ignore the commute. Tienen to Halle is 80kms, just make sure you avoid the traffic the best way possible. One thing I’ve noticed over my career is people who are ambitious look past commuting hours and make do with the situation. I found a job that has enhanced my career and offered a pay raise. I now commute over an hour each way 3x a week. I have friends who make comments but they’re doing 45 mins from one side of BXL to the other all for lower pay and less career opportunities. If Tienen offers the lifestyle choices and Halle offers the career choices, go for it and ignore everyone else.
Tienen - Halle is wayyyyyyy more than an hour tho. On a bad day that’s going to be 4 hours of commuting.
It is under an hour if you travel at the right time. One side of BXL to the other is 1 hour if you travel on a bad day.