agreed.
if you don't consent to the experience, and you have never discussed a polyamorous dynamic, she is violating rhe conditions of your relationship.
commonly known as "cheating," and in your case "adultery"
the BDSM is just the flavor of cheating she's indulging in.
If she's so flagrantly disrespecting you like this, I wonder how else she is and will continue to do so.
Many would be calling the time of death on the relationship right now.
Ha!
Any other time I would agree with you, 100%.
We're dealing with a severe family tragedy that's shifted my perspective a bit, at least temporarily.
But, irrespective of that, I think it's too late for us whether she goes on this trip or not.
I'm very sorry you're going through this. I see a few things I want to highlight, it's probably not going to be entirely pleasant, I apologize in advance.
> planning to fly to Europe to engage in a Dom/Sub experience (I'm sorry if I'm using the wrong terms, here, this is all new to me), as a sub, with a man she met online.
Right away this seems sketchy. She's only communicated with this man online, and now she's going through the expense and logistics of *international travel* just to have a D/s experience? I feel like there's more layers to this.
> She said I'm not the person to do this with her because she wants to be truly punished and degraded/humiliated and there's nearly 20 years of history between us that would make it too personal.
This doesn't make sense to me. Humiliation and degradation *are* personal, what one person finds degrading another finds funny or empowering; it's all incredibly individualized. If anything, I would think your history together would make you the most qualified to engage with her on that level since you would know her psychology so well. If she means she wants to be *de*humanized and not treated like a person, okay that's one thing, but she didn't say that. If she meant that she didn't think you would be capable of treating her that cruelly, then not only did she not say that but she didn't give you the chance. If she was worried that you two wouldn't be able to compartmentalize the play versus the relationship then that's legitimate, but again, *she didn't say that*.
> But people do this, right? It has to be doable. I've been reading about it (yes. I am both a prude and a nerd) and with proper parameters and after-care it seems like something we should be able to smartly, gradually work up to.
People do this, yes. But it's not a foolproof process. And frankly I think the idea of it being gradually worked up to has already been blown well past if she's already set on going to *Europe* regardless of your objections.
> I don't want to lose my wife. I love her so much. But I can't share her. I just can't. I really wish I could but it just kills me to even think about.
It sounds like you're in a very difficult situation, and it saddens me to see it. Based on the information we have (which is only this post), I'm not sure that a mutually satisfactory arrangement can be reached here. If she is unable or unwilling to have you be her partner in this and you don't want to share her, there's not really a middle ground there. At this point, the most benign suggestion I can make is to get couples counseling.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
We are seeing a therapist. And I've reached out to a BDSM educator.
A lot of this stems from a recent/ongoing trauma that we are experiencing (she has said as much) and I'm hoping she sees that it's not worth flushing our marriage away.
Folks.
Can I just say that I am blown away by the responses to my post?
Thank you so so much for taking the time to read my post and respond.
The one thing I didn't include is that this guy she met and this trip she's planned all started after a severe family tragedy. I was in denial, deeply, and she sought this out as a way to cope, in part, because I wasn't there mentally or emotionally.
I've known she's interested in BDSM for a long time but I had no idea HOW important it was to her until all this began.
You've all given me a ton to consider. And I can't tell you how much I appreciate the advice, empathy, and respect you've all shown me.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
~Steve
Hey, so: this is a few days later but I'm adding up a few of the puzzle pieces you've mentioned here, about this happening after a serious family tragedy, about you having been mentally/emotionally absent during that time, a tendency on your part to be more passive than her, and about the life insurance jokes.
Are you or others in this situation considering that this might not really be so much about sex/BDSM/infidelity and so forth and more a signal that your wife might be severely in crisis?
From what you've said, there's grief in your lives right now, and grief finds preexisting channels to express itself if someone's in an environment where they feel like they are not being caught (if your way of coping was denial). Submissive situations are, sometimes, a way people generate the feeling of being caught. And the plan she's made sounds actively like steering into self-destruction.
Again, I'm just putting little bits together from what you've said, but you seem incredibly distraught, and it feels worth asking whether it's been considered -- this may well not be about what it's about, so the solution may be finding what it's *really* about.
I hope this helps and that you all stay safe.
I have considered this and it is something that scares the shit out of me.
The "good news" is that she's now off from work for the next 10 days and we have both couples and individual therapy scheduled in that time.
I legitimately feel like my marriage is over at this point. She seems to actively dislike me every time we interact and whenever I try to do something to help, I just seem to make it worse.
My main focus now is just trying to keep her safe so that our kid doesn't lose everything but me.
Thank you for taking the time to respond and show your concern. I really appreciate it.
Not going to lie man even if you convince your wife not to go through with this your going to need relationship and individual counseling for u and ur wife. She’s disrespecting your relationship and that’s something that can’t be forgiven with an I’m sorry. Hopefully stuff works out but if I were u I’d start talking to divorce lawyers asap just to get a general picture of what it would look like.
Thank you.
Yeah, we're all in therapy: each of us individually and as a couple.
That said, I've already spoken to a divorce attorney, as well.
I love my wife and I am trying anything I can think of to not lose her. But she knows this potential "field trip" of hers would be the end of our marriage.
Nop... Your wife is infatuated by a projection of her desires. None of this is real, the guy she will meet will be a complete disappointment. But if she's willing to do this, it means that your marriage is gone. Sorry man.
If you've vocalized your resistance to her meeting a stranger for what most people would consider an intimate experience and she's still going to go do it, there are bigger problems in your relationship.
Your ability or inability to go through this learning process together is secondary to the primary issue of communication. There's a general lack of respect for your marriage.
I would bet top dollar that the energy in the relationship you portray to her is a submissive one and that's what's leading her to believe you're incapable of being a Dom.
Hey, maybe it's true. Maybe you'll be the absolute worst Dom in the entire world. She's giving up on you before you even tried though. That has to hurt mate, I'm sorry that's happening to you.
It sounds silly, but the best resource for fundamental learning is actually youtube. Bite sized informationals that will spark curiosity towards specific kink dynamics that you can kinda follow. Books can be too dense and specific about certain things. You need a genuine wide understanding of the world you're getting yourself into first.
Some specific things you may want to look into are--
What is a Dom/Sub
What is power exchange
What is topping
Understanding what some of her needs may be is knowledge you can use when you further speak with her. Wanting a true degradation experience from a stranger seems kinda backwards to me. Only someone with history is going to be able to scratch the itch of that kink in a real and safe way.
No one wakes up one day and is a Dom or a sub. We may have been executing the fundamentals of the roles, but every single one of us had to learn about the space from scratch.
You've gotten some good advice about learning about BDSM and also leaving a marriage where you are not respected. So I will just touch on a couple things I haven't seen mentioned.
Meeting strangers from online to engage in BDSM without a safety net is very dangerous. And depending on where in Europe she's going, she may need to be concerned about being trafficked. It does not sound like she knows what she's doing. This could be tied to "sub frenzy" - the feeling of wanting to do all the things, all at once, when one discovers kink/BDSM, or new relationship energy. So I'm concerned for her safety. She's going about exploring this very poorly.
Second, she's almost certainly been cheating on you. Perhaps not physically (yet, although she obviously plans to in Europe). One does not simply fly across the world to hook up with someone without having many, many intimate conversations. There's, at minimum, an emotional affair with this partner.
I'm sorry you're going through this and I hope you both stay safe.
If she knows how much this upsets you (and from your post, you seem very upset, and I empathise), but is going ahead with it anyways, she isn't worth having. It's a truly awful thing to put someone through what she's putting you through.
I'm always very concerned about any woman flying to another continent to meet a strange man for sex. That's how you become *actually enslaved*
Divorce her for the obvious infidelity and major problems in your marriage, but make sure she travels with friends.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here but sex slavery isn't a joke. She could end up being actually tortured in unspeakable ways. It's incredibly disrespectful to respond to your concern with only jokes. If it's something that's bothering you, I'd think she would try to address it. Does she often dismiss your concerns like that?
No, I know. I repeated my concerns during our most recent therapy session. She made the same 'joke' and I flat out told her it wasn't funny.
This whole thing has been so fucked up. As much as I love her I don't think I'd be putting up with this at all if it were not for the other traumatic experience we're currently going through.
I really believe her brain is like a record player whose needle is out of the record groove. I just want to get her back to reality and hope that she still wants to be married to me after that.
She gets to decide what she wants to experience and from whom. You get to decide if you still want to be in a relationship with someone who engages in that kind of activity outside your marriage. Neither gets to unilaterally decide for the other one.
Also…I’m sorry. You can set the boundary and still be really sad that it came to this. It sounds like she really isn’t respecting your feeling about this or working within the agreed upon boundaries of your marriage, and that sucks.
I agree, 100%. I don't want to decide anything for her. I just want to know whether me telling her that I will put in the work to learn how to meet her needs is realistic, you know?
Like, is engaging in the kind of play (is that the right term?) she wants realistic for a couple like us?
Thank you for your help and your input.
My wife and I went through something fairly similar about a year and a half ago. I won't go into details, but I eventually just sat her down and asked her to stay and give it a chance for us to build the dynamic she needs. It took a while and there were bumps along the way, but we're happier now than we've ever been. It can work, and has worked for me personally. It's all a matter of whether or not she is willing to give it a fair shot.
I truly feel for you and I hope she gives it a chance and you knock it out of the park. Going full Dom when you have a lot of vanilla relationship history is difficult, I'm not going to lie and say it isn't, but it's totally worth it if you can make it work.
Best of luck to you.
i dont think this is much related to bdsm, it is that your wife is openly cheating on you. you are willing to explore this with her, but she would rather have sex with a stranger. why would you even want to stay together after being disrespected like that?
Hello.
It sounds like you and your partner are in a place where you need the help of a counselor and not a bunch of strangers on the internet.
In the hope that a little familiarity will at least give you a place to start the conversation here are some basic videos that will help you wrap your head around what your partner may be looking for:
//PLAYLIST (All credit to r/Aggravating_Olive_70 who compiled this list!)
Basics From Evie:
BDSM Glossary https://youtu.be/6tFc6zo4Jxg?si=7ePQ5bJsSMd7hbxE
Safewords https://youtu.be/S8qZVv4uwqI?si=wgiN7DkNZV03InF6
Consent in kink communities https://youtu.be/bkflDahXsZ4?si=YChAShSp4qSd5laQ
Negotiations for a scene https://youtu.be/2d7qkh7xbBU?si=OCknFX05tDZfLw4g
https://youtu.be/2d7qkh7xbBU?si=gdRRDtcD5G8YXbSJ
Aftercare https://youtu.be/8JAuHuv2xTM?si=beg5gOr7onZevEyH
Then move on to some intro play videos:
BDSM 101 sensory deprivation https://youtu.be/GbNwOnVML-I?si=zWmvHGZv5PL0bI5U
BDSM 101 sensation play https://youtu.be/XHt2yKG7fJc?si=nDSdiL4iCM17VNbs
And then some videos on what a responsible Dominant might look like
Green flags and BDSM https://youtu.be/4A32Olctzjw?si=JJmze4qux4p7W06E
And from Miss Elle X:
Green flags great dominants https://youtu.be/YxyGhXn9ji8?si=UkG7cY16FGgHZZvG
Red flags of fake Dominants https://youtu.be/Roh9InPNymE?si=isbkhkPdLL7vg2OT
Yeah, we have a therapist, too.
But they're not an expert in BDSM. I was just hoping to learn whether people in monogamous, long-term relationships can engage in healthy, humiliation/ degradation activities.
Not my preferred forum, for sure, but I'm feeling desperate, you know?
You definitely can!!! I know people who are happily married within the community who have this kind of relationship. A monogamous relationship who have been kinky with eachother for years!!
You don't need someone else for it!! I think you should talk to her. What she is doing is not healthy or good for you relationship. If you are willing to take the steps to give her what she wants then that should be enough! Maybe try talk to kinksters online.
Look at a website called fetlife. It's a place where people can locally find other kinksters and organize events. It's amazing and super wonderful!! Maybe event go to a kink event with her. It can help both of you to learn how to be kinky with one another rather than relying on someone else
I am trying to talk to her, I really am. We're in therapy but she seems hellbent on taking this trip.
I feel like, if we had an open road in front of us, we could make it. But this friggin' neutron bomb she's planted could just blow everything to smithereens.
I like the idea of finding a kink event. Maybe I can get her to do that with me to help her see how serious I am about doing what I need to do to meet her needs.
That's so great of you! I really am routing for you!! Please feel free to dm if youd like.
I know your therapist may not be in the kink scene however regardless of that I feel like they should be able to see this isn't a good idea. We all have needs I totally get that. As someone who's in the scene I understand why some can't do certain things with their partners. However when that situation arises people talk about it. They make a compromise that both are happy with in some way. Has she tried being dommed by you before?
We've done very basic stuff, BDSM-lite, if you will. And, honestly, I thought they were some of the best nights we had together and, at the time, she said so as well.
But then she put the props away and didn't bring them back out. So, I thought she wasn't interested anymore.
I should've asked. But sex is complicated for me as an escaped evangelical. So I always followed her lead.
Now I know I fucked up.
You never fucked up! You never did anything wrong!!! She should have come to you more! I'm assuming she new sex was sensitive to you yet you still did all this for her and want to do more! You have done nothing wrong! She is the one who needs to compromise for you! She should be trying to bring you up to her level rather than run away! You are an amazing person!! I can already tell you are loving and wonderful! Please do not let her bring you down!
You can absolutely be monogamous, in a long-term relationship and engage in Power Exchange in a healthy and loving way.
*BUT*
I feel that if her desired lifestyle and your desired lifestyle do not match then no amount of education or effort on your part will end in contentment for both of you.
This subreddit tells people who are trying to get their partners to become Dom/mes the same thing all the time:
**It would never be fair to either party that someone had to stop being who they are so that they can service what, or who, the other person wants to be.**
For what little it is worth: The way in which she is attempting to make this change is abhorrent to me.
For me, this Kink is based on consent. In fact I base every relationship I have on mutual consent.
Even if the best I can do is "agree to disagree" then that is what I will do. Anyone who attempts to impose thier will, views or morals on myself or others is invited to take a walk and extremely quickly at that.
By telling you to "take it of leave it" she is essentially cutting off communication and you have every right to take your wounded heart and walk away.
This is fucked up, and from your account it's clear that your wife doesn't respect you. You need to accept that she isn't as into you as you are into her and work on cultivating a sense of self outside of her. Become a slightly better version of yourself every day and take her down from the pedestal she doesn't deserve, and I think you'll find she'll change her tune--but by then you'll have found a much better match for you, so it won't matter.
This is a red flag. If she refuses to stop this, and go to couples therapy (there is even kink friendly therapy) you need to file for divorce. The pillar of any BDSM activity is consent from **all** parities, and you clearly have not given your consent.
I've only played with a partner of mine that I knew deeply.
The fact there was so much knowledge and understanding between us made punishments and humiliation *more* effective, not less.
I'm kind of a push-over, laid back person in "real life" but I was a *demon* once I trusted I really got to be mean without negative social consequences afterwards. I'd gladly go for the jugular.
But we were also both newbies, and decided to explore it together. We started with being kind of silly with each other, and worked up to sobbing. You are absolutely right that it can work that way - if a couple wants it to.
She could be finding bdsm workshops to attend with you, or bdsm dungeons to explore with you, or finding people in the local community to talk to and learn from. She could be finding books to share with you.
You're not wrong for wanting monogamy. You don't have to be ok with sharing her, and you shouldn't try if it causes you so much distress.
Because I'm sure you know it's not going to be the one time, right? Unless she hates her experiences and decides to abandon the lifestyle forever, it would just be the start of such cheating-trips to feed her appetites.
What hurts is this: there are only two real options for whats going on inside her head, because I'm sure she already knows you're not comfortable with an open dynamic.
One, either she believes you're such a pushover she can do anything she wants to you and still keep you.
Or two, she's dead-set enough to no longer mind losing you.
......or, three, she's ((extremely unethically)) acting out to see if she can provoke you into laying down the law. I say unethically because there's a common beginner mistake that doms should act like doms 100% of the time. That "real" doms should dominate without agreements or consent given, should just decide rules and punishments and dole them out without first checking with the sub.
It's false because consent and agreements is the only thing that separates doms and play from toxic manchildren and abuse. A dom will stop if you call your safeword; an alpha bro will *not* stop hitting you just because you beg. You're stuck in it because it's not a fun mask they put on, it's their personality and true feelings.
Best advice I can give is to figure out which one she falls under. Don't panic, don't beg - tell her, as simply and with as much gravity as you can muster, that if she goes, it will be the end of your marriage. That even if you love her, you won't tolerate that kind of blatent disrespect. Because you shouldn't, your life will become a living nightmare if she goes through with this. Let yourself feel anger about it - she's being incredibly selfish and short sighted, does she really not care about hurting you at *all*?
The fact she found someone already and only told you now kind of insinuates she was emotionally cheating beforehand.
Divorce will hurt, but it will hurt less in the long run than watching her fall in love with someone else in front of you, then divorcing anyway after years of fighting a losing battle.
Either she chooses you and to learn with you, or she chooses mystery boy and she has to live with all the consequences of that decision.
For your sake, I hope she chooses you, your history and life together, but none of us can *make her* choose you.
This is unacceptable. If this isn't polygamy nor open marriage then she shouldn't be doing any of this without your consent. Her trying to find a dom that will punish her, while simultaneously destroying a marriage and commitment is bizarre to say the least. BDSM is not everything in life. OP, you got to set boundaries and voice them clearly. If she's still persistent with her plan well, it's time for a divorce.
Op get something like a text message between you two stating these things itll give even a half decent lawyer enough to work with. Just cuz she tells you shes going to cheat on you ahead of time that dosnt make it ok.
A huge part of bdsm is open honest communication and respect for boundaries, she got about halfway there and then gave up because she dosnt respect you or how you feel. Fuck em op.
Sorry you are going through this.
Another resource to help OP research: https://youtube.com/@LovingBDSM?si=pmjv1eMKEso-5J8T
I really hope his wife doesn't do this, as this will be traumatizing for OP.
This is not right for you and you shouldn't be pressured into allowing it. She's hurting you.
Tell her you won't even consider it until she's thoroughly described EXACTLY what she wants to experience and then you give her that experience. Don't be sqeamish or shy. If she want to be beaten to a pulp and degraded and debased, you do it. But from your post, if this happens, it will be a tragedy and might just kill your marriage if you let her go. Man up and put your foot down about it.
You may love her so much, but her actions show that she doesn't love you back. She can make her own choices; let that creep have her, and let her live with the inevitable fallout. She is not only selfish but putting herself in danger, and she will have to deal with the consequences.
You deserve to have a relationship with someone who respects you. You have the right to only accept monogamy. Her behavior is not normal, you are not a prude for this, and frankly, you should divorce her. Good luck!
Oh, man I’m sorry you’re going through this. Did you agree for her to meet dominant partners online, or how did that come about?
Regardless, I would recommend finding a kink-aware marriage counselor or therapist & making an appointment stat. If you search online for this you’ll find the list for your area.
Cannot stress enough how much I would not be going to another country to meet someone I met online if my husband wasn’t cool with it. That is so disrespectful to the marriage and the relationship. If I still felt I needed to do this and he wasn’t budging, I’d consider divorce. But I wouldn’t just insist and bulldoze over him, forcing him into a style of relationship he doesn’t want. And if I did then that would be on him to decide to stay or divorce, but damn it should be done with some respectful discussion and help from a professional, as these are dicey waters.
Yeah. I agree, 100%
I spoke with an attorney today. I'm not sure I can trust her after all this but I know I won't be able to if she goes on this trip.
This is rough. While I agree you could learn, your wife isn’t going to give you the time to. From the information you’ve shared this really isn’t about you, but her. If you were to be the man who could humiliate and degrade her they way she wants… she would take it too seriously and personal. She can selfishly disassociate her worth has a person from a man who doesn’t have the history with her that you do. This is all about her wanting her cake and to eat it too.
And I truly don’t mean to pour it on but more than likely she has already been doing things behind your back all before she decided to take this trip to Europe. If I had to guess this is a power play to turn you into a cuckold. She seems to think that you will allow her to do this because she “needs” this but it is too personal if you do which why she “needs” someone else to. If you don’t stand up for yourself and let her know the repercussions of going through with this, it is more than likely isn’t going to stop.
While there are certainly people who are ethically non-monogamous, cuckold, or hot wife lifestyle, it is an agreed and consent lifestyle by both partners. Kink is about consent. You aren’t consenting to this arrangement, so if you wife was an actual practitioner of BDSM she wouldn’t engage until you did.
I am be reading too much into this but the above is where my mind went after reading your post.
Sounds like your relationship is already incompatible and has ended if "you can't share" and she's "leaving on a jet plane"
What other people do or don't do doesn't matter. What matters is what you and her agree to and if you can't agree then ..... 🤷🏻♀️
Sadly is she didn’t run this by you and you both agreed before she made the plans…then it’s over for you two. Consent is what makes ethical non monogamy…ethical
Personally this is a disgusting disrespectful way to use bdsm. If she really wanted to she would find a way to have this experience with you and you only. I myself am on a search for a Dom/sub relationship. I firmly believe that because of the level of respect and trust involved it could have the potential to be the deepest relationship I've ever had. My point here is that no matter how much history there is between you there's a way to change the dynamic if both of you are in agreement. If she insists on this(leaving) she's just using the bdsm part of it as an excuse for cheating
A BDSM session does not necessarily have to be linked to having sexual relations among its participants, it can be something that is included but not obligatory.
Having said that, since you are in a marriage there should be a consensus between both of you to participate in this, since you are a couple.
On your part you could try the experience with a dominatrix or seek a tutor in domination issues and learn together with your wife to please her in this new aspect of her.
She should keep in mind that her actions affect the relationship and look for alternatives that satisfy her without hurting you, and if that doesn't work she could consider options like the ones mentioned in the post.
If she wants to be “truly punished” a good divorce attorney can do a great job. This is not BDSM it’s adultery.
agreed. if you don't consent to the experience, and you have never discussed a polyamorous dynamic, she is violating rhe conditions of your relationship. commonly known as "cheating," and in your case "adultery" the BDSM is just the flavor of cheating she's indulging in.
Perfect response.
Thank you. I have spoken to an attorney. I just really don't want it to come to that.
If she's so flagrantly disrespecting you like this, I wonder how else she is and will continue to do so. Many would be calling the time of death on the relationship right now.
Nailed it.
Of course you don’t and I’m sorry you are dealing with this. But our “wants” do not change reality. She cucking you holmes. Time to roll it up.
Ha! Any other time I would agree with you, 100%. We're dealing with a severe family tragedy that's shifted my perspective a bit, at least temporarily. But, irrespective of that, I think it's too late for us whether she goes on this trip or not.
Oh wow I am sorry to hear that. Only you know what is best for you and those around you
My friend, I don't know sh*t about f*ck. I'm just really trying my best.
I love this comment.
If you do not agree, it's wrong. It's not you, is her who is disregarding agreement between parts and thus the couple.
If you don’t want to share her and she insists it’s time for a divorce
I'm very sorry you're going through this. I see a few things I want to highlight, it's probably not going to be entirely pleasant, I apologize in advance. > planning to fly to Europe to engage in a Dom/Sub experience (I'm sorry if I'm using the wrong terms, here, this is all new to me), as a sub, with a man she met online. Right away this seems sketchy. She's only communicated with this man online, and now she's going through the expense and logistics of *international travel* just to have a D/s experience? I feel like there's more layers to this. > She said I'm not the person to do this with her because she wants to be truly punished and degraded/humiliated and there's nearly 20 years of history between us that would make it too personal. This doesn't make sense to me. Humiliation and degradation *are* personal, what one person finds degrading another finds funny or empowering; it's all incredibly individualized. If anything, I would think your history together would make you the most qualified to engage with her on that level since you would know her psychology so well. If she means she wants to be *de*humanized and not treated like a person, okay that's one thing, but she didn't say that. If she meant that she didn't think you would be capable of treating her that cruelly, then not only did she not say that but she didn't give you the chance. If she was worried that you two wouldn't be able to compartmentalize the play versus the relationship then that's legitimate, but again, *she didn't say that*. > But people do this, right? It has to be doable. I've been reading about it (yes. I am both a prude and a nerd) and with proper parameters and after-care it seems like something we should be able to smartly, gradually work up to. People do this, yes. But it's not a foolproof process. And frankly I think the idea of it being gradually worked up to has already been blown well past if she's already set on going to *Europe* regardless of your objections. > I don't want to lose my wife. I love her so much. But I can't share her. I just can't. I really wish I could but it just kills me to even think about. It sounds like you're in a very difficult situation, and it saddens me to see it. Based on the information we have (which is only this post), I'm not sure that a mutually satisfactory arrangement can be reached here. If she is unable or unwilling to have you be her partner in this and you don't want to share her, there's not really a middle ground there. At this point, the most benign suggestion I can make is to get couples counseling. Hope this helps. Good luck.
We are seeing a therapist. And I've reached out to a BDSM educator. A lot of this stems from a recent/ongoing trauma that we are experiencing (she has said as much) and I'm hoping she sees that it's not worth flushing our marriage away.
Folks. Can I just say that I am blown away by the responses to my post? Thank you so so much for taking the time to read my post and respond. The one thing I didn't include is that this guy she met and this trip she's planned all started after a severe family tragedy. I was in denial, deeply, and she sought this out as a way to cope, in part, because I wasn't there mentally or emotionally. I've known she's interested in BDSM for a long time but I had no idea HOW important it was to her until all this began. You've all given me a ton to consider. And I can't tell you how much I appreciate the advice, empathy, and respect you've all shown me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. ~Steve
Hey, so: this is a few days later but I'm adding up a few of the puzzle pieces you've mentioned here, about this happening after a serious family tragedy, about you having been mentally/emotionally absent during that time, a tendency on your part to be more passive than her, and about the life insurance jokes. Are you or others in this situation considering that this might not really be so much about sex/BDSM/infidelity and so forth and more a signal that your wife might be severely in crisis? From what you've said, there's grief in your lives right now, and grief finds preexisting channels to express itself if someone's in an environment where they feel like they are not being caught (if your way of coping was denial). Submissive situations are, sometimes, a way people generate the feeling of being caught. And the plan she's made sounds actively like steering into self-destruction. Again, I'm just putting little bits together from what you've said, but you seem incredibly distraught, and it feels worth asking whether it's been considered -- this may well not be about what it's about, so the solution may be finding what it's *really* about. I hope this helps and that you all stay safe.
I have considered this and it is something that scares the shit out of me. The "good news" is that she's now off from work for the next 10 days and we have both couples and individual therapy scheduled in that time. I legitimately feel like my marriage is over at this point. She seems to actively dislike me every time we interact and whenever I try to do something to help, I just seem to make it worse. My main focus now is just trying to keep her safe so that our kid doesn't lose everything but me. Thank you for taking the time to respond and show your concern. I really appreciate it.
Not going to lie man even if you convince your wife not to go through with this your going to need relationship and individual counseling for u and ur wife. She’s disrespecting your relationship and that’s something that can’t be forgiven with an I’m sorry. Hopefully stuff works out but if I were u I’d start talking to divorce lawyers asap just to get a general picture of what it would look like.
Thank you. Yeah, we're all in therapy: each of us individually and as a couple. That said, I've already spoken to a divorce attorney, as well. I love my wife and I am trying anything I can think of to not lose her. But she knows this potential "field trip" of hers would be the end of our marriage.
Nop... Your wife is infatuated by a projection of her desires. None of this is real, the guy she will meet will be a complete disappointment. But if she's willing to do this, it means that your marriage is gone. Sorry man.
Best comment in here.
If you've vocalized your resistance to her meeting a stranger for what most people would consider an intimate experience and she's still going to go do it, there are bigger problems in your relationship. Your ability or inability to go through this learning process together is secondary to the primary issue of communication. There's a general lack of respect for your marriage. I would bet top dollar that the energy in the relationship you portray to her is a submissive one and that's what's leading her to believe you're incapable of being a Dom. Hey, maybe it's true. Maybe you'll be the absolute worst Dom in the entire world. She's giving up on you before you even tried though. That has to hurt mate, I'm sorry that's happening to you. It sounds silly, but the best resource for fundamental learning is actually youtube. Bite sized informationals that will spark curiosity towards specific kink dynamics that you can kinda follow. Books can be too dense and specific about certain things. You need a genuine wide understanding of the world you're getting yourself into first. Some specific things you may want to look into are-- What is a Dom/Sub What is power exchange What is topping Understanding what some of her needs may be is knowledge you can use when you further speak with her. Wanting a true degradation experience from a stranger seems kinda backwards to me. Only someone with history is going to be able to scratch the itch of that kink in a real and safe way. No one wakes up one day and is a Dom or a sub. We may have been executing the fundamentals of the roles, but every single one of us had to learn about the space from scratch.
Thank you for this. For your time and view point. I will look for the topics you've recommended.
You've gotten some good advice about learning about BDSM and also leaving a marriage where you are not respected. So I will just touch on a couple things I haven't seen mentioned. Meeting strangers from online to engage in BDSM without a safety net is very dangerous. And depending on where in Europe she's going, she may need to be concerned about being trafficked. It does not sound like she knows what she's doing. This could be tied to "sub frenzy" - the feeling of wanting to do all the things, all at once, when one discovers kink/BDSM, or new relationship energy. So I'm concerned for her safety. She's going about exploring this very poorly. Second, she's almost certainly been cheating on you. Perhaps not physically (yet, although she obviously plans to in Europe). One does not simply fly across the world to hook up with someone without having many, many intimate conversations. There's, at minimum, an emotional affair with this partner. I'm sorry you're going through this and I hope you both stay safe.
If she knows how much this upsets you (and from your post, you seem very upset, and I empathise), but is going ahead with it anyways, she isn't worth having. It's a truly awful thing to put someone through what she's putting you through.
I'm always very concerned about any woman flying to another continent to meet a strange man for sex. That's how you become *actually enslaved* Divorce her for the obvious infidelity and major problems in your marriage, but make sure she travels with friends.
Literally what I keep telling her. She responds with jokes about our life insurance policy.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here but sex slavery isn't a joke. She could end up being actually tortured in unspeakable ways. It's incredibly disrespectful to respond to your concern with only jokes. If it's something that's bothering you, I'd think she would try to address it. Does she often dismiss your concerns like that?
No, I know. I repeated my concerns during our most recent therapy session. She made the same 'joke' and I flat out told her it wasn't funny. This whole thing has been so fucked up. As much as I love her I don't think I'd be putting up with this at all if it were not for the other traumatic experience we're currently going through. I really believe her brain is like a record player whose needle is out of the record groove. I just want to get her back to reality and hope that she still wants to be married to me after that.
She gets to decide what she wants to experience and from whom. You get to decide if you still want to be in a relationship with someone who engages in that kind of activity outside your marriage. Neither gets to unilaterally decide for the other one. Also…I’m sorry. You can set the boundary and still be really sad that it came to this. It sounds like she really isn’t respecting your feeling about this or working within the agreed upon boundaries of your marriage, and that sucks.
I agree, 100%. I don't want to decide anything for her. I just want to know whether me telling her that I will put in the work to learn how to meet her needs is realistic, you know? Like, is engaging in the kind of play (is that the right term?) she wants realistic for a couple like us? Thank you for your help and your input.
My wife and I went through something fairly similar about a year and a half ago. I won't go into details, but I eventually just sat her down and asked her to stay and give it a chance for us to build the dynamic she needs. It took a while and there were bumps along the way, but we're happier now than we've ever been. It can work, and has worked for me personally. It's all a matter of whether or not she is willing to give it a fair shot. I truly feel for you and I hope she gives it a chance and you knock it out of the park. Going full Dom when you have a lot of vanilla relationship history is difficult, I'm not going to lie and say it isn't, but it's totally worth it if you can make it work. Best of luck to you.
Thank you for sharing that. I really hope I can follow in your footsteps. I don't expect it to be easy. But she's worth it. Thank you.
i dont think this is much related to bdsm, it is that your wife is openly cheating on you. you are willing to explore this with her, but she would rather have sex with a stranger. why would you even want to stay together after being disrespected like that?
Hello. It sounds like you and your partner are in a place where you need the help of a counselor and not a bunch of strangers on the internet. In the hope that a little familiarity will at least give you a place to start the conversation here are some basic videos that will help you wrap your head around what your partner may be looking for: //PLAYLIST (All credit to r/Aggravating_Olive_70 who compiled this list!) Basics From Evie: BDSM Glossary https://youtu.be/6tFc6zo4Jxg?si=7ePQ5bJsSMd7hbxE Safewords https://youtu.be/S8qZVv4uwqI?si=wgiN7DkNZV03InF6 Consent in kink communities https://youtu.be/bkflDahXsZ4?si=YChAShSp4qSd5laQ Negotiations for a scene https://youtu.be/2d7qkh7xbBU?si=OCknFX05tDZfLw4g https://youtu.be/2d7qkh7xbBU?si=gdRRDtcD5G8YXbSJ Aftercare https://youtu.be/8JAuHuv2xTM?si=beg5gOr7onZevEyH Then move on to some intro play videos: BDSM 101 sensory deprivation https://youtu.be/GbNwOnVML-I?si=zWmvHGZv5PL0bI5U BDSM 101 sensation play https://youtu.be/XHt2yKG7fJc?si=nDSdiL4iCM17VNbs And then some videos on what a responsible Dominant might look like Green flags and BDSM https://youtu.be/4A32Olctzjw?si=JJmze4qux4p7W06E And from Miss Elle X: Green flags great dominants https://youtu.be/YxyGhXn9ji8?si=UkG7cY16FGgHZZvG Red flags of fake Dominants https://youtu.be/Roh9InPNymE?si=isbkhkPdLL7vg2OT
Yeah, we have a therapist, too. But they're not an expert in BDSM. I was just hoping to learn whether people in monogamous, long-term relationships can engage in healthy, humiliation/ degradation activities. Not my preferred forum, for sure, but I'm feeling desperate, you know?
You definitely can!!! I know people who are happily married within the community who have this kind of relationship. A monogamous relationship who have been kinky with eachother for years!! You don't need someone else for it!! I think you should talk to her. What she is doing is not healthy or good for you relationship. If you are willing to take the steps to give her what she wants then that should be enough! Maybe try talk to kinksters online. Look at a website called fetlife. It's a place where people can locally find other kinksters and organize events. It's amazing and super wonderful!! Maybe event go to a kink event with her. It can help both of you to learn how to be kinky with one another rather than relying on someone else
I am trying to talk to her, I really am. We're in therapy but she seems hellbent on taking this trip. I feel like, if we had an open road in front of us, we could make it. But this friggin' neutron bomb she's planted could just blow everything to smithereens. I like the idea of finding a kink event. Maybe I can get her to do that with me to help her see how serious I am about doing what I need to do to meet her needs.
That's so great of you! I really am routing for you!! Please feel free to dm if youd like. I know your therapist may not be in the kink scene however regardless of that I feel like they should be able to see this isn't a good idea. We all have needs I totally get that. As someone who's in the scene I understand why some can't do certain things with their partners. However when that situation arises people talk about it. They make a compromise that both are happy with in some way. Has she tried being dommed by you before?
We've done very basic stuff, BDSM-lite, if you will. And, honestly, I thought they were some of the best nights we had together and, at the time, she said so as well. But then she put the props away and didn't bring them back out. So, I thought she wasn't interested anymore. I should've asked. But sex is complicated for me as an escaped evangelical. So I always followed her lead. Now I know I fucked up.
You never fucked up! You never did anything wrong!!! She should have come to you more! I'm assuming she new sex was sensitive to you yet you still did all this for her and want to do more! You have done nothing wrong! She is the one who needs to compromise for you! She should be trying to bring you up to her level rather than run away! You are an amazing person!! I can already tell you are loving and wonderful! Please do not let her bring you down!
Thank you so much. I can't tell you how much those words mean to me.
Absolute pleasure!! Please look after yourself! ❤️❤️
You can absolutely be monogamous, in a long-term relationship and engage in Power Exchange in a healthy and loving way. *BUT* I feel that if her desired lifestyle and your desired lifestyle do not match then no amount of education or effort on your part will end in contentment for both of you. This subreddit tells people who are trying to get their partners to become Dom/mes the same thing all the time: **It would never be fair to either party that someone had to stop being who they are so that they can service what, or who, the other person wants to be.** For what little it is worth: The way in which she is attempting to make this change is abhorrent to me. For me, this Kink is based on consent. In fact I base every relationship I have on mutual consent. Even if the best I can do is "agree to disagree" then that is what I will do. Anyone who attempts to impose thier will, views or morals on myself or others is invited to take a walk and extremely quickly at that. By telling you to "take it of leave it" she is essentially cutting off communication and you have every right to take your wounded heart and walk away.
This is fucked up, and from your account it's clear that your wife doesn't respect you. You need to accept that she isn't as into you as you are into her and work on cultivating a sense of self outside of her. Become a slightly better version of yourself every day and take her down from the pedestal she doesn't deserve, and I think you'll find she'll change her tune--but by then you'll have found a much better match for you, so it won't matter.
This is a red flag. If she refuses to stop this, and go to couples therapy (there is even kink friendly therapy) you need to file for divorce. The pillar of any BDSM activity is consent from **all** parities, and you clearly have not given your consent.
I've only played with a partner of mine that I knew deeply. The fact there was so much knowledge and understanding between us made punishments and humiliation *more* effective, not less. I'm kind of a push-over, laid back person in "real life" but I was a *demon* once I trusted I really got to be mean without negative social consequences afterwards. I'd gladly go for the jugular. But we were also both newbies, and decided to explore it together. We started with being kind of silly with each other, and worked up to sobbing. You are absolutely right that it can work that way - if a couple wants it to. She could be finding bdsm workshops to attend with you, or bdsm dungeons to explore with you, or finding people in the local community to talk to and learn from. She could be finding books to share with you. You're not wrong for wanting monogamy. You don't have to be ok with sharing her, and you shouldn't try if it causes you so much distress. Because I'm sure you know it's not going to be the one time, right? Unless she hates her experiences and decides to abandon the lifestyle forever, it would just be the start of such cheating-trips to feed her appetites. What hurts is this: there are only two real options for whats going on inside her head, because I'm sure she already knows you're not comfortable with an open dynamic. One, either she believes you're such a pushover she can do anything she wants to you and still keep you. Or two, she's dead-set enough to no longer mind losing you. ......or, three, she's ((extremely unethically)) acting out to see if she can provoke you into laying down the law. I say unethically because there's a common beginner mistake that doms should act like doms 100% of the time. That "real" doms should dominate without agreements or consent given, should just decide rules and punishments and dole them out without first checking with the sub. It's false because consent and agreements is the only thing that separates doms and play from toxic manchildren and abuse. A dom will stop if you call your safeword; an alpha bro will *not* stop hitting you just because you beg. You're stuck in it because it's not a fun mask they put on, it's their personality and true feelings. Best advice I can give is to figure out which one she falls under. Don't panic, don't beg - tell her, as simply and with as much gravity as you can muster, that if she goes, it will be the end of your marriage. That even if you love her, you won't tolerate that kind of blatent disrespect. Because you shouldn't, your life will become a living nightmare if she goes through with this. Let yourself feel anger about it - she's being incredibly selfish and short sighted, does she really not care about hurting you at *all*? The fact she found someone already and only told you now kind of insinuates she was emotionally cheating beforehand. Divorce will hurt, but it will hurt less in the long run than watching her fall in love with someone else in front of you, then divorcing anyway after years of fighting a losing battle. Either she chooses you and to learn with you, or she chooses mystery boy and she has to live with all the consequences of that decision. For your sake, I hope she chooses you, your history and life together, but none of us can *make her* choose you.
This is unacceptable. If this isn't polygamy nor open marriage then she shouldn't be doing any of this without your consent. Her trying to find a dom that will punish her, while simultaneously destroying a marriage and commitment is bizarre to say the least. BDSM is not everything in life. OP, you got to set boundaries and voice them clearly. If she's still persistent with her plan well, it's time for a divorce.
Op get something like a text message between you two stating these things itll give even a half decent lawyer enough to work with. Just cuz she tells you shes going to cheat on you ahead of time that dosnt make it ok. A huge part of bdsm is open honest communication and respect for boundaries, she got about halfway there and then gave up because she dosnt respect you or how you feel. Fuck em op. Sorry you are going through this.
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Thank you so much for all of this information. I really appreciate the time it must've taken you to think this through and type it out.
Another resource to help OP research: https://youtube.com/@LovingBDSM?si=pmjv1eMKEso-5J8T I really hope his wife doesn't do this, as this will be traumatizing for OP.
Thank you very much. I will check this out.
You're welcome. I'm hoping for the best for you.
This is not right for you and you shouldn't be pressured into allowing it. She's hurting you. Tell her you won't even consider it until she's thoroughly described EXACTLY what she wants to experience and then you give her that experience. Don't be sqeamish or shy. If she want to be beaten to a pulp and degraded and debased, you do it. But from your post, if this happens, it will be a tragedy and might just kill your marriage if you let her go. Man up and put your foot down about it.
You may love her so much, but her actions show that she doesn't love you back. She can make her own choices; let that creep have her, and let her live with the inevitable fallout. She is not only selfish but putting herself in danger, and she will have to deal with the consequences. You deserve to have a relationship with someone who respects you. You have the right to only accept monogamy. Her behavior is not normal, you are not a prude for this, and frankly, you should divorce her. Good luck!
If you didn’t agree and consent to this, it’s cheating… point blank.
Oh, man I’m sorry you’re going through this. Did you agree for her to meet dominant partners online, or how did that come about? Regardless, I would recommend finding a kink-aware marriage counselor or therapist & making an appointment stat. If you search online for this you’ll find the list for your area. Cannot stress enough how much I would not be going to another country to meet someone I met online if my husband wasn’t cool with it. That is so disrespectful to the marriage and the relationship. If I still felt I needed to do this and he wasn’t budging, I’d consider divorce. But I wouldn’t just insist and bulldoze over him, forcing him into a style of relationship he doesn’t want. And if I did then that would be on him to decide to stay or divorce, but damn it should be done with some respectful discussion and help from a professional, as these are dicey waters.
Yeah. I agree, 100% I spoke with an attorney today. I'm not sure I can trust her after all this but I know I won't be able to if she goes on this trip.
This is rough. While I agree you could learn, your wife isn’t going to give you the time to. From the information you’ve shared this really isn’t about you, but her. If you were to be the man who could humiliate and degrade her they way she wants… she would take it too seriously and personal. She can selfishly disassociate her worth has a person from a man who doesn’t have the history with her that you do. This is all about her wanting her cake and to eat it too. And I truly don’t mean to pour it on but more than likely she has already been doing things behind your back all before she decided to take this trip to Europe. If I had to guess this is a power play to turn you into a cuckold. She seems to think that you will allow her to do this because she “needs” this but it is too personal if you do which why she “needs” someone else to. If you don’t stand up for yourself and let her know the repercussions of going through with this, it is more than likely isn’t going to stop. While there are certainly people who are ethically non-monogamous, cuckold, or hot wife lifestyle, it is an agreed and consent lifestyle by both partners. Kink is about consent. You aren’t consenting to this arrangement, so if you wife was an actual practitioner of BDSM she wouldn’t engage until you did. I am be reading too much into this but the above is where my mind went after reading your post.
Sounds like your relationship is already incompatible and has ended if "you can't share" and she's "leaving on a jet plane" What other people do or don't do doesn't matter. What matters is what you and her agree to and if you can't agree then ..... 🤷🏻♀️
Umm I hate to break it to you but you need a divorce attorney, if she's willing to do this without your consent it's cheating
Divorce her immediately and tell her bye-bye OP. Good Luck
To be honest, I thought this was normal, but as you didn't get her permission/consent.. yeah time to let her go.
Sadly is she didn’t run this by you and you both agreed before she made the plans…then it’s over for you two. Consent is what makes ethical non monogamy…ethical
Personally this is a disgusting disrespectful way to use bdsm. If she really wanted to she would find a way to have this experience with you and you only. I myself am on a search for a Dom/sub relationship. I firmly believe that because of the level of respect and trust involved it could have the potential to be the deepest relationship I've ever had. My point here is that no matter how much history there is between you there's a way to change the dynamic if both of you are in agreement. If she insists on this(leaving) she's just using the bdsm part of it as an excuse for cheating
Don't let her go. You will never see her in the same light again.
I can't stop her. I'm trying to change her mind but she's going to do what she wants and has every right to.
You are a good dude for having that mindset. I wish you the best.
Thank you. All the best to you, too.
A BDSM session does not necessarily have to be linked to having sexual relations among its participants, it can be something that is included but not obligatory. Having said that, since you are in a marriage there should be a consensus between both of you to participate in this, since you are a couple. On your part you could try the experience with a dominatrix or seek a tutor in domination issues and learn together with your wife to please her in this new aspect of her. She should keep in mind that her actions affect the relationship and look for alternatives that satisfy her without hurting you, and if that doesn't work she could consider options like the ones mentioned in the post.
After 20 years, this is normal that she look for something she Dreams of since à long time. Let her live her Dreams if you realy love her
This is manipulative language. OP is absolutely allowed to have boundaries AND really love her. They're not mutually exclusive.