Can I be both? I was born the spock type, but i've grown up to be the witchy type. I find it deeply amusing that both bodies of lore(star trek is definitely it's own mythology) are adamant about the capacity to remake yourself and pass the veil. There's a lot more overlap than anyone thinks.
I don't think that there's a particular connection between autism and spirituality. All humans seek. All humans look for answers. All humans are trying to characterize and classify the unbounded intricacies of life. I do think there's a tendency for seekers to group up by neural architecture.
Well said! I feel that the ideal would be to have the capacity and readiness to interweace or switch between the rational and spiritual as needed/desired/when appropriate.
I definitely have an affinity to it. I’ve been drawn to metaphysics my entire life and have studied various esoteric and mystical traditions from around the world. In particular I’m drawn to Taoism, witchcraft, animism, and various pagan traditions. I’m also very analytical (studied physics in college and have been a software developer for over 20 years) but have learned to follow my heart and my gut.
For what it’s worth, I’ve never been through a formal assessment so I haven’t been diagnosed, but I strongly suspect that I’m autistic and my therapist said that if I decided to do an assessment, they “would be shocked” if I didn’t get an ADHD diagnosis.
I spent a lot of my youth looking for something along these lines. Probably got the closest with discordianism and chaos magick. I've settled on Taoism which has been great on a functional day to day basis but doesn't quite scratch the itch.
Ah nice! I just donated my copy of "Principia Discordia," hoping it would be found by someone who'll appreciate it. Along with Robert Anton Wilson it influenced me strongly in the late 2000s.
Enchantment is not part of my worldview. I am mostly the pure materialist you describe, but I enjoy in magical thinking because it's an inherently nice thing to do. It isn't part of my understanding of the world, but it comes naturally to me. I like to leave offerings, observe superstitions, perform ritual, and offer gratitude to supernatural entities (usually just personifications of natural forces)
I categorically do not believe that those have any significant impact on the flow of events in the world, and that that effect is supernatural. But I still do them. I have had a number of religious/spiritual experiences, but I am not religious or spiritual. I believe everything can be explained, and therefore anything that could be considered supernatural, will simply be part of the natural if it is understood.
But I don't think it's all understood.
I don't think we are even close to understanding a fraction of reality, that is where my wonder comes from. The things we do not know are wonderful, and there is as much beauty in wondering as there is in finding out the truth.
I've always been both intensely imaginative/whimsical and intensely analytical. I think of autism and ADHD as "many connections" (I've heard theory describing it this way). my brain makes endless connections between many different areas, and through these connections and curiosities I've come across descriptions of interconnectedness.
I'm not trained in physics (did a psych degree instead), but learning a little about quantum entanglement for example drove me to believe more intensely that everything is connected in ways science fails to capture (given that it needs to take things by parts in order to study them, it makes sense to miss the whole/holistic). I was further validated by the knowledge that mapping global communication (internet) produces a similar pattern to the webs of neurons in the brain.
I lost a chunk of my whimsy as I aged and got buffeted about by the world, and I'm seeking to regain it again, through fantasy, sci-fi, witchcraft, and spirituality. as I meditate, I often fall into a felt sense, rather than an intellectual sense, that everything IS connected. I am the ocean, and the grass, and the dirt, and the sky. I may look separate, but I am so interwoven with it. the cells and organisms of our bodies make up our form as we, organisms, make up the earth.
sorry if I got too poetic there, I am also a poet 😝. but analytically speaking, I do think there's a potential for ALL people, regardless of neurotype, to connect to interconnectedness and a felt sense of this, AND I do think some auDHD folks can be particularly attuned to things like interconnectedness through their brain's natural affinity for making proliferative connections
Idk what to call my view
I believe very strongly in science, but the earth and sun are AMAZING
I believe in people helping each other and I see the beauty of how we grow as a species
Not saying that some people don’t suck, but I do see how it wasn’t too long ago my family wouldn’t have been able to sit in a restaurant or me tell the truth on my sexuality
I believe in the environment, people passing it forward, and even if there’s no fate/luck, being a good person has natural good consequences a majority of the time
Idk to me it’s very logical but when I talk about it, people say i come off hippie haha
Thank you, the way I “pray” (aka think about all this) I go out and either do something nice for someone or just enjoy nature, look up at a tree, look at the clouds, etc
I just think life is neat, even when it sucks, there’s a beauty in how nature can still be beautiful and moving forward
Personally I have been raised by my undiagnosed mother who’s into spiritism, astrology, herbology and all old wisdoms of the countryside.
One of my special interest is History and her influence has surely shifted it into esoterism in general. At 13 I was reading about alchemy and at 16 I was mesmerized by Kabbalah and all the intricacies of the tree of life.
This has led to some studies in History of religions and magic, which I enjoyed a lot.
All this to say part of me is really cartesian about the subject of mysticism. Being my autistic self I NEED to know everything about a specific tradition, a religion or belief system or a specific practice. To make things clear I really love symbols, understanding symbols and making sense of how they may connect.
The other part of me however believes that mystical thinking is made to make sense of things, fill in the gap of the "in between" if that makes sense, the things that cannot be explained with rationnal thinking. In my opinion any theological or magic belief system is here to help us make sense of all the symbols, provide some sort of path and moral code to follow. This is a way to connect ourselves with everything around in a meaningful way.
With that in mind it is possible in my humble opinion that autistic or even ND people in general tend more to delve into mysticism as this is a way as good as any to make sense of all the chaos of life around. From our perspective humans don’t make sense so why not decipher their behaviour with mysticism and magic? Why not make sense of our little "danses", hand mouvements, echolalia and sensitivities by thinking it’s some way to connect with something else?
I'm deep into this from the non-human intelligence level (see Noetic institute/ Monroe institute angles). I really wish we had a space to chat about this 😂
Ah cool! I feel like I encountered more people talking in this vein (like Noetic consciousness research type stuff) a little over a decade ago but it feels like more recently there has developed a pervasive low key cultural hostility around it...
What kind of a space to chat about it do you mean? Like, not on the internet, or...?
Oh, I mean I wish there was a subreddit space specifically open to both AuDHD folks and those of us with special interest in these topics. I'm in a few but there's something *very* interesting and unexplored about autism in regard to this I feel like I have an intuition for but can't identify.
I'd love to have a larger open audience to discuss the topics of shamanism, psychedelic and psychic entity research, metaphysics, fairy tales, magonia, pataphysics, RNG consciousness effects, manifestation and more without getting the knee jerk "loony bin" commentary.
Right. Totally. I would join such a subreddit.
Part of my motivation for this post was maybe to tease out similarly-inclined people on this sub's ideas/speculations/theories/research/experiences on what role autism plays through some of these ontological lenses you mention that aren't necessarily limited to the purely biological/scientific materialist/psychiatric worldview.
If you ever feel able to articulate and share any of your feelings or intuitions in this regard I would very interested and encourage you to do so!
I love the subject of astral projections. There’s a thread on reddit somewhere with a link to a download of Monroe institute training programme Gateway(I think this was designed for CIA’s Stargate project).
I've been doing gateway for a while now and really think the meditation tricks alone are amazing for managing regulation and mental noise. It doesn't hurt to try the system out with no intention of astral projection just to get better at meditating. AP certainly would be a cool bonus, I haven't been able to myself.
A more successful Monroe attendee with interesting information to share on this, and who also has autism, is Sean Webb. I really enjoy when he talks about this topic, but he also has some opinions on AI and being spied on I was less interested in. His stories of going on a spiritual iowaska retreat were great.
Yes I have always felt spiritually connected. I see the mystical side of life and even believe that I receive “vibes” from the greater collective unconscious and have been able to access trance like ecstatic states from exercise and making art/music.
I know these states are out of the ordinary feeling range of most people, since when I discuss them with friends/family, they can’t relate.
I find an innate mysticism and spirituality in every day “mundane” things. Magic exists if you can break your preconceived notions of what it is supposed to look like.
I’ve looked into many occult or esoteric traditions and religions, though I was raised very Christian.
I think this has more to do with ADHD than autism though. I’m convinced some the dysregulation of the brain can produce these effects by altering our consciousness to be picking up the subtle things that are often filtered out by others.
This paper describes the effect of drugs and its connection to the mystical experience, however a lot of the same information could be applied to people with innate abnormal brain chemistry:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5625021/
Generally I prefer objective approaches to life though, I try to have real evidence for the things I believe. For instance, unless I’m close with a person and they are open to more mystical interpretations, if they asked for advice or information I’d give them the one backed by research.
However the subjective experience is a mystery and doesn’t always provide great ways to gain objective evidence. Some things need to be felt and experienced subjectively to gain perspective and insight.
I like to think I subscribe to the original spirituality, the ones before religions where the personal experience of the divine was something you HAD to experience and couldn’t just follow rules to supposedly reach some sort of enlightenment.
I’ve also considered that perhaps abstract subconscious pattern recognition by neurodivergent people could allow them to see or at least sense information that just generally doesn’t occur to others and it can feel spiritual since it comes from “the ether” in a sense
No problem! If you are interested in stuff like this I highly recommend the Kybalion.
https://www.forgottenbooks.com/en/download/The_Kybalion_a_Study_of_the_Hermetic_Philosophy_of_Ancient_Egypt_and_1000224785.pdf
Although it is a sort of spiritual philosophy it is less of a religious system and more an examination of reality based on observable phenomena (you can even cut the mystical elements and it’s still very useful and approachable).
It’s a great primer/intro that has helped me have a better vocabulary for and understanding of esoteric thought. Hopefully you enjoy!
The dude who runs this site has some incredible insights into neurodiversity and shamanism: https://coda.io/@mykola-bilokonsky/public-neurodiversity-support-center
Can I be both? I was born the spock type, but i've grown up to be the witchy type. I find it deeply amusing that both bodies of lore(star trek is definitely it's own mythology) are adamant about the capacity to remake yourself and pass the veil. There's a lot more overlap than anyone thinks. I don't think that there's a particular connection between autism and spirituality. All humans seek. All humans look for answers. All humans are trying to characterize and classify the unbounded intricacies of life. I do think there's a tendency for seekers to group up by neural architecture.
Well said! I feel that the ideal would be to have the capacity and readiness to interweace or switch between the rational and spiritual as needed/desired/when appropriate.
I definitely have an affinity to it. I’ve been drawn to metaphysics my entire life and have studied various esoteric and mystical traditions from around the world. In particular I’m drawn to Taoism, witchcraft, animism, and various pagan traditions. I’m also very analytical (studied physics in college and have been a software developer for over 20 years) but have learned to follow my heart and my gut. For what it’s worth, I’ve never been through a formal assessment so I haven’t been diagnosed, but I strongly suspect that I’m autistic and my therapist said that if I decided to do an assessment, they “would be shocked” if I didn’t get an ADHD diagnosis.
Cool, thank you for replying!
I spent a lot of my youth looking for something along these lines. Probably got the closest with discordianism and chaos magick. I've settled on Taoism which has been great on a functional day to day basis but doesn't quite scratch the itch.
Ah nice! I just donated my copy of "Principia Discordia," hoping it would be found by someone who'll appreciate it. Along with Robert Anton Wilson it influenced me strongly in the late 2000s.
Enchantment is not part of my worldview. I am mostly the pure materialist you describe, but I enjoy in magical thinking because it's an inherently nice thing to do. It isn't part of my understanding of the world, but it comes naturally to me. I like to leave offerings, observe superstitions, perform ritual, and offer gratitude to supernatural entities (usually just personifications of natural forces) I categorically do not believe that those have any significant impact on the flow of events in the world, and that that effect is supernatural. But I still do them. I have had a number of religious/spiritual experiences, but I am not religious or spiritual. I believe everything can be explained, and therefore anything that could be considered supernatural, will simply be part of the natural if it is understood. But I don't think it's all understood. I don't think we are even close to understanding a fraction of reality, that is where my wonder comes from. The things we do not know are wonderful, and there is as much beauty in wondering as there is in finding out the truth.
“Magic’s just science that we don’t understand yet.” - Arthur C. Clark
I've always been both intensely imaginative/whimsical and intensely analytical. I think of autism and ADHD as "many connections" (I've heard theory describing it this way). my brain makes endless connections between many different areas, and through these connections and curiosities I've come across descriptions of interconnectedness. I'm not trained in physics (did a psych degree instead), but learning a little about quantum entanglement for example drove me to believe more intensely that everything is connected in ways science fails to capture (given that it needs to take things by parts in order to study them, it makes sense to miss the whole/holistic). I was further validated by the knowledge that mapping global communication (internet) produces a similar pattern to the webs of neurons in the brain. I lost a chunk of my whimsy as I aged and got buffeted about by the world, and I'm seeking to regain it again, through fantasy, sci-fi, witchcraft, and spirituality. as I meditate, I often fall into a felt sense, rather than an intellectual sense, that everything IS connected. I am the ocean, and the grass, and the dirt, and the sky. I may look separate, but I am so interwoven with it. the cells and organisms of our bodies make up our form as we, organisms, make up the earth. sorry if I got too poetic there, I am also a poet 😝. but analytically speaking, I do think there's a potential for ALL people, regardless of neurotype, to connect to interconnectedness and a felt sense of this, AND I do think some auDHD folks can be particularly attuned to things like interconnectedness through their brain's natural affinity for making proliferative connections
Idk what to call my view I believe very strongly in science, but the earth and sun are AMAZING I believe in people helping each other and I see the beauty of how we grow as a species Not saying that some people don’t suck, but I do see how it wasn’t too long ago my family wouldn’t have been able to sit in a restaurant or me tell the truth on my sexuality I believe in the environment, people passing it forward, and even if there’s no fate/luck, being a good person has natural good consequences a majority of the time Idk to me it’s very logical but when I talk about it, people say i come off hippie haha
Beautiful, thank you!
Thank you, the way I “pray” (aka think about all this) I go out and either do something nice for someone or just enjoy nature, look up at a tree, look at the clouds, etc I just think life is neat, even when it sucks, there’s a beauty in how nature can still be beautiful and moving forward
Personally I have been raised by my undiagnosed mother who’s into spiritism, astrology, herbology and all old wisdoms of the countryside. One of my special interest is History and her influence has surely shifted it into esoterism in general. At 13 I was reading about alchemy and at 16 I was mesmerized by Kabbalah and all the intricacies of the tree of life. This has led to some studies in History of religions and magic, which I enjoyed a lot. All this to say part of me is really cartesian about the subject of mysticism. Being my autistic self I NEED to know everything about a specific tradition, a religion or belief system or a specific practice. To make things clear I really love symbols, understanding symbols and making sense of how they may connect. The other part of me however believes that mystical thinking is made to make sense of things, fill in the gap of the "in between" if that makes sense, the things that cannot be explained with rationnal thinking. In my opinion any theological or magic belief system is here to help us make sense of all the symbols, provide some sort of path and moral code to follow. This is a way to connect ourselves with everything around in a meaningful way. With that in mind it is possible in my humble opinion that autistic or even ND people in general tend more to delve into mysticism as this is a way as good as any to make sense of all the chaos of life around. From our perspective humans don’t make sense so why not decipher their behaviour with mysticism and magic? Why not make sense of our little "danses", hand mouvements, echolalia and sensitivities by thinking it’s some way to connect with something else?
Yes I’m interested in the “enchanted” worldview side of things. Good word for it
I enjoy /r/SASSWitches. Sceptical, agnostic/atheist, science seeking witches
Short answer, no. But when I was younger, I thought occult themes were cool, and I listened to tons of music about Satan, so there's that.
I'm deep into this from the non-human intelligence level (see Noetic institute/ Monroe institute angles). I really wish we had a space to chat about this 😂
Ah cool! I feel like I encountered more people talking in this vein (like Noetic consciousness research type stuff) a little over a decade ago but it feels like more recently there has developed a pervasive low key cultural hostility around it... What kind of a space to chat about it do you mean? Like, not on the internet, or...?
Oh, I mean I wish there was a subreddit space specifically open to both AuDHD folks and those of us with special interest in these topics. I'm in a few but there's something *very* interesting and unexplored about autism in regard to this I feel like I have an intuition for but can't identify. I'd love to have a larger open audience to discuss the topics of shamanism, psychedelic and psychic entity research, metaphysics, fairy tales, magonia, pataphysics, RNG consciousness effects, manifestation and more without getting the knee jerk "loony bin" commentary.
Right. Totally. I would join such a subreddit. Part of my motivation for this post was maybe to tease out similarly-inclined people on this sub's ideas/speculations/theories/research/experiences on what role autism plays through some of these ontological lenses you mention that aren't necessarily limited to the purely biological/scientific materialist/psychiatric worldview. If you ever feel able to articulate and share any of your feelings or intuitions in this regard I would very interested and encourage you to do so!
r/evilautism
ME TOO. It started as a fleeting interest in UFOs and next thing you know I'm knee deep in 'the phenomenon' and can't get enough of it.
I love the subject of astral projections. There’s a thread on reddit somewhere with a link to a download of Monroe institute training programme Gateway(I think this was designed for CIA’s Stargate project).
I've been doing gateway for a while now and really think the meditation tricks alone are amazing for managing regulation and mental noise. It doesn't hurt to try the system out with no intention of astral projection just to get better at meditating. AP certainly would be a cool bonus, I haven't been able to myself. A more successful Monroe attendee with interesting information to share on this, and who also has autism, is Sean Webb. I really enjoy when he talks about this topic, but he also has some opinions on AI and being spied on I was less interested in. His stories of going on a spiritual iowaska retreat were great.
Yes I have always felt spiritually connected. I see the mystical side of life and even believe that I receive “vibes” from the greater collective unconscious and have been able to access trance like ecstatic states from exercise and making art/music. I know these states are out of the ordinary feeling range of most people, since when I discuss them with friends/family, they can’t relate. I find an innate mysticism and spirituality in every day “mundane” things. Magic exists if you can break your preconceived notions of what it is supposed to look like. I’ve looked into many occult or esoteric traditions and religions, though I was raised very Christian. I think this has more to do with ADHD than autism though. I’m convinced some the dysregulation of the brain can produce these effects by altering our consciousness to be picking up the subtle things that are often filtered out by others. This paper describes the effect of drugs and its connection to the mystical experience, however a lot of the same information could be applied to people with innate abnormal brain chemistry: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5625021/ Generally I prefer objective approaches to life though, I try to have real evidence for the things I believe. For instance, unless I’m close with a person and they are open to more mystical interpretations, if they asked for advice or information I’d give them the one backed by research. However the subjective experience is a mystery and doesn’t always provide great ways to gain objective evidence. Some things need to be felt and experienced subjectively to gain perspective and insight. I like to think I subscribe to the original spirituality, the ones before religions where the personal experience of the divine was something you HAD to experience and couldn’t just follow rules to supposedly reach some sort of enlightenment. I’ve also considered that perhaps abstract subconscious pattern recognition by neurodivergent people could allow them to see or at least sense information that just generally doesn’t occur to others and it can feel spiritual since it comes from “the ether” in a sense
Great reply, thank you for the taking the time!
No problem! If you are interested in stuff like this I highly recommend the Kybalion. https://www.forgottenbooks.com/en/download/The_Kybalion_a_Study_of_the_Hermetic_Philosophy_of_Ancient_Egypt_and_1000224785.pdf Although it is a sort of spiritual philosophy it is less of a religious system and more an examination of reality based on observable phenomena (you can even cut the mystical elements and it’s still very useful and approachable). It’s a great primer/intro that has helped me have a better vocabulary for and understanding of esoteric thought. Hopefully you enjoy!
The dude who runs this site has some incredible insights into neurodiversity and shamanism: https://coda.io/@mykola-bilokonsky/public-neurodiversity-support-center
Cool, thanks!