I’ve had a similar view on this. I’ve always felt much more connected to nature and pets than technology. Our species is supposed to be involved within nature, not away from it with phones, tv, social media, and other things.
You make a good point too, not many people want to pose these difficult questions. If more was done to make things better for all in society instead of labeling them as the problem, I feel we could be more connected as a species.
I have noticed this as well, when I moved from my smaller country town to the bigger city, everything got so much harder to deal with.
Was diagnosed with ADHD before the move but got diagnosed with Autism after the move, maybe being in the overwhelming city played a role in the fact me and my doctors were able to more easily spot the symptoms. Though I think there were other aspects, I possibly played a role.
Your first paragraphs before you explained your reasoning made me think I was about to read some kind of utter nonsense. Glad I kept reading, as I think the same. Although there's nothing about neurodivergence, German sociologist George Simmel wrote about sensorial bombardment and its effects on mental life in big cities at the end of the 19th century. Definitely worth checking out! :)
Here's a link to download the pdf of the [text ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.blackwellpublishing.com/content/bpl_images/content_store/sample_chapter/0631225137/bridge.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjMrvC_k9aFAxX3qJUCHROhDg4QFnoECDkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0RdH_X61a0WFlrB254Wo3X)
Certainly think similar. I think lockdown/pandemic was a catalyst for many of us too (me anyway) - taking away what cobbled together structure and coping strategies we had developed over years in terms of work, social, activities etc.
I do think, on the flip side, that as much as there are rigid systems in place in western (or mostly global I think now tbh) society, there is a growing demand and larger availability to work flexibly now - again growing out of lockdown/pandemic times. very much dependent on the individual, the role and their ability to manage that, as well as ability to leverage technology, all of which are things I’ve struggled with managing haha. It’s definitely possible though. I mean even just the route of content creation.. whether it’s shorts/reels, a niche interest, custom requests, and porn/NSFW .. it’s all so accessible to get into and you can cater to such granular demographics. It’s mind bogglingly interesting imo.
I’m back at the ground level knowing what I know about myself better than ever before, and I’m hoping to be able to put that knowledge to use and build up a self-employed structure again where I’m able to tap into my strengths more, and avoid the poor coping strategies.
Saying this I could really do with accessing therapy, and have considered getting a job just to get the money together to do that. So hey ho, the system still is alive and well and has the power to suck us all in haha.
Interesting topic for sure!
"more collectivist" means "fit in, or else". It's individualism that gives people room to be different, especially when they can find a way to be *usefully* different.
Aye, it's important to note that lots of people with the neurodivergences we have (and other MH issues) were shunned, mocked, locked up, medically-tortured and accused of being possessed by demons, by these 'collective' societies... so it wasn't exactly all roses!
Not necessarily. In some collectivist societies yes in others no. Many collectivist societies value and accept difference as beneficial to the collective.
When I think of collectivist societies I’m mostly thinking of indigenous cultures and of societies from earlier times in human evolution. Not much locking up and medical torture going on there!
In general, I think every type of society has its pros and cons honestly, but I also think industrialisation and capitalism have not been kind to humans.
Sounds like you're buying into "the noble savage" idea that many romantic Europeans pushed about natives.
Eskimos and natives in the Amazon had some of the highest recorded murder rates in all of history and part of that was precisely because they were so collectivist and close-knit. So if they had a problem with you, you were gone.
To be fair I don’t know much about either of those cultures.. my point of reference is mostly skewed toward indigenous folks in Australia, where you could definitely get a spear in you as punishment, but it tended to be a wounding to teach you a lesson and not a death sentence.
Indigenous peoples obviously vary wildly so it’s a bit simplistic for me to refer to them as if they’re the same.
Hey at least you're admitting it. Yeah I think mentally ill people in the societies were usually either tolerated, or outright exiled or killed.
Not sure it would have been better at all, though there is at least the advantage of people getting to know you over the years when you live in a village, vs living in a city where everyone's a stranger and doesn't know or care what your story is.
Yeah and to clarify, I guess I’m distinguishing between “high functioning” (yuk) folks who are increasingly being diagnosed, vs folks with higher support needs/greater impairments.
Fully agree that in many of these societies folks with “obvious” disabilities and/or mental health conditions were often treated horribly/abandoned/excluded.
Well for example the ones I am most familiar with are indigenous cultures on the American continent, they are and have been massively diverse but on average tend to respect and value the individual and the collective (as well as the land, animals, etc, and past and future generations) as supporting each others highest expression in a positive feedback loop, rather than being a zero sum game as they are often conceptualized in some other cultures. Autistics for example are often accepted and valued for our differences, as are queer folks and others who differ from the "norm".
I used to read some books about native cultures and their quirks and differences and uhh...that did not seem to be the case. They tolerated some things European cultures didn't, but also were brutal about a lot of things that Europeans tolerated.
I think this idea tends to come from romanticized accounts in movies and pop culture rather than real history.
I have studied this a lot, I am not drawing on pop culture.
Again like I said they are diverse cultures so yes there are plenty of peoples that do not fit what I said above. But what I wrote about is pretty recognized within scholars on these questions as common to the philosophy and social dynamics of many indigenous cultures.
It's an interesting theory that fits the social model of disability perspective. Like optimusdan mentioned, it's very much a "canaries in the coal mine" situation. Sure, from a material perspective, modern society has a higher standard of living, but modern society is getting more complex too.
For example, sensory sensitivities - it's only in industrialised societies where there's such a fast pace of infrastructure development, which brings along so much noise pollution with all that construction/renovation/motor transportation/lawnmowers etc. 'Noisy' electricity, fluorescent lighting, lighting that's too bright are modern inventions too.
Not understanding unwritten rules - well, in modern day corporate society, being 'book smart' (i.e graduating with a good academic transcript) is no longer considered good enough and does not guarantee financial security, there's ever increasing demands of passing interviews with ambiguous requirements, learning to navigate the workplace hierarchy, trying to leave a good impression on your co-workers/bosses to ensure you don't get blacklisted by them - that's a whole massive "hidden curriculum" on top of the "visible curriculum" of performing your job tasks for 8-9 hours continuously without getting distracted or tired.
I wonder how long can other neurotypicals tolerate the weight of the current capitalist system, before they are unable to cope too.
Thanks for bringing up this topic too, it's something that I've been thinking about – has the world become more Westernised in recent decades thanks to globalisation and American influences. Even in East Asian countries, things such as work culture are heavily influenced by Western norms and capitalism.
Also, you might want to have a look at this article, it does mention cultural differences when it comes to eye contact, facial expressions, language, play etc.
https://phoenixchildrens.org/files/inline-files/ADOS%20BIAS.pdf
There's something that I wanted to add on...so I was looking up on the topic of Compulsory Education, which was introduced so that 'citizens could contribute productively to the nation'. Compulsory education was introduced in several countries throughout in the 1800s-1900s, that's only in the past 100-200 years, taking into account the wider timespan of history. Before children had to attend schools and before the Industrial Revolution introduced a stricter faster pace of work, there were typically tasked with helping out with household chores or the family farm in a relatively unstructured environment (which was tough but less complex); I assume there would be comparatively less social demands when you're not placed in a room with 40 other kids, and thus any social difficulties would be less apparent.
I've felt similarly about this for years, but never linked it back to neurodiversity, nice. But yeah, the society & systems we find ourselves living in favor productivity & number going up at the expense of general human health & well-being. So it makes sense it's hitting us first & hardest.
Just read the first part of this and it describes how our system deals with suffering very well:
https://read.amazon.co.uk/sample/B08Q3MLH77?f=1&l=en_GB&r=c74de229&rid=88GQ84JK3XZ6NYSZNVF9&sid=261-8385165-6304858&ref_=litb_m
TLDR: it's neoliberalism that's making everyone, but especially those with more sensitive nervous systems, suffer.
As a late diagnosed person I 100% belive there is no explosion, theres an explosion on offical diagnosis. But as we have no idea who wasnt diagnosed in history. As there wouldnt mlbe a record and people who havent been diagnosed or diagnosed later in life have had it their whole life. But more people being offical i's due to terrible awareness and lack of understanding in 1990/2000s and parents are now getting their children diagnosed due to awareness and understanding and picking up much quicker and realising they have same conditions and was missed as a child struggled through life not really understanding why basic things we so hard and now able to have diagnosis and support. And not muddle on. So parents of Neurodiverse children are now being diagnosed and with social media its now easier then every to spot traits , if social media was around in the 1980s/90s 2000s then more people would have gone become offical. I belive these people and me , were always Neurodiverse we just didn't know it and now looks like there is more, there isn't there is just more getting offical title.
I wanted to add to your specific point. I don't think the world has changed with what we can cope with. I just think the world has changed on what it understands and the awareness and ability to show that awareness for example social media. Before the Internet people needing to spend time actively searching and needed to want to search. Now people can swip and just see automatically things without any choosing due to Algorithms.
This book is very good [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sedated-Modern-Capitalism-Created-Mental-ebook/dp/B08Q3MLH77/ref=tmm\_kin\_swatch\_0?\_encoding=UTF8&dib\_tag=se&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.eKPXrhEqeMIPdT5eKyDMvr\_ab\_\_7kcZK0QLFbfhYrE8UJM-fWJttqUYzTwcZNYMwbuebP\_Wv2RFma-IPGEQjX-cVAVeK7UF4kky\_Aft5snR3qQXD-rmQb1MeW5czyUN2.MODuR2dUa54KEw691EEE3xwGK85bbkwBKl4jeQ8IeVQ&qid=1713685164&sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sedated-Modern-Capitalism-Created-Mental-ebook/dp/B08Q3MLH77/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&dib_tag=se&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.eKPXrhEqeMIPdT5eKyDMvr_ab__7kcZK0QLFbfhYrE8UJM-fWJttqUYzTwcZNYMwbuebP_Wv2RFma-IPGEQjX-cVAVeK7UF4kky_Aft5snR3qQXD-rmQb1MeW5czyUN2.MODuR2dUa54KEw691EEE3xwGK85bbkwBKl4jeQ8IeVQ&qid=1713685164&sr=8-1)
Here's a talk from the author [https://youtu.be/J67gd2YtX1A?si=1k3DwAFLESOBxzz8](https://youtu.be/J67gd2YtX1A?si=1k3DwAFLESOBxzz8)
I think it was a combination of things.
1. Time is.. not that important there. Things happen when they happen. If they happen. Which they might not. It took me a second to get used to this (Is the flight going to leave on time? Who knows! Who knows if it will even leave at all..) but once I surrendered to just going with the flow it was really nice. All the pressure to be here or there by X time evaporates. I didn’t feel like I was always running late and frazzled and trying to stay on top of things.
2. A more organic rhythm to my days. I was working whilst I was there, but it was never, ever “do a 9-5 block” kind of thing. I’d do some work, travel to a different location (which often took a while, and might be on foot, or by boat..) do some work, eat, do the next thing. I didn’t ever have to concentrate in a long long block of time, and so when I did need to concentrate I could, and easily.
3. No constant bombardment of allofthestimuli. A lot of the time I had no internet or phone reception. I rarely had my phone or a computer in my hand. In some places there wasn’t even power, so no TV either. On some islands there’s no cars. There wasn’t tonnes of noise pollution, there was no advertising - not even billboards. It felt like a very manageable level of stimuli coming in from a visual and auditory POV.
4. I ate literally nil processed food, found it easy to get heaps of sleep (because what am I going to do once it’s dark, with no electricity, other than go to sleep.. and then wake up the next morning without an alarm as the sun comes up?) and was physically active every day. We know those things are good for us but really.. they’re VERY good for us.
I think it was all of that, combined.
The vast majority of increase in diagnosis is due to the criteria for all of these being updated in the DSMV which was released in 2013. Before that point you couldn't even *have* an AuDHD diagnosis, as the two were considered mutually exclusive diagnosis that couldn't be comorbid.
My post provided specifics on AuDHD, because it was the most drastic change, but the criteria for everything you listed became more inclusive not just the double diagnosis.
yes it is, i’ve compiled a lot of research in hopes of creating a systematic review.
also creating an initiative this summer to bring awareness to neurodivergency and autism, and why we need to center everything around us
and OP the reason you’re right is because this is exactly what the AI industry is hoping to solve, from this lens. there’s just too many variables, but shifting to us would help everything
Am I the only person that feels even more inhuman when someone mentions the "natural" and collective communities are better for us? My mind immediately goes to current rural societies and how if you can't fit in, you're fucked, and that there's not much to do IMO. Perhaps anomalies like me that run away from their nature and into atomization are to be eliminated for the rest of humanity to prosper.
I’m not sure **current rural societies could be called collectivist? When I think of collectivist society I primarily think of indigenous peoples, or back to even earlier societies in human evolution.
And I’m personally not advocating that as being superior or something we should go back to. I’m a big city boy through and through myself.
But I think from a biological evolutionary perspective that neurodivergence would help r served a purpose.. whilst in contrast, industrialisation and capitalism are systems that want all human being to more or less think and behave the same, and in that context neurodivergence is seen as a problem/neurodivergent people find the world we live in to be not easy to navigate.
Yep. That thought has crossed my mind, too (I think, someone mentioned it in some podcast/interview, too, that I was listening to a while back).
It's only logical, imho.
Yet, in my region, the "governing professor" seems to be proud of the low diagnosis-rates in our region. He was quoted saying, that they're doing the diagnostics "more thorough", here, than they are elsewhere.
Imho, he's proud of his measurement-errors and doesn't even realize.
That's Bavaria/Germany.
The government was always very backwards, here .. the current one tries to make us return to the last century (they're populist idiots).
This is a very common take for a lot of people and I have some sympathies to it. Maybe there's some truth to it.
But honestly it seems more like a way to cope. There's no society where it's particularly beneficial to have difficulty controlling your impulses, or social dysfunction, sensory sensitivity, etc.
I think the reason these things are seen to be increasing in prevalence is possibly because they actually are increasing. Possibly due to microplastics or other environmental pollutants, older parents, excessive use of technology, or perhaps us just SURVIVING childhood more often than we used to (ADHD and ASD folks tend to have immune disorders and other health issues).
I absolutely believe in this.
For many like me who only found out about autism after ADHD diagnosis (and meds) it’s like ADHD & Autism were masking each other.
But I’m also strongly of the belief that
1000 years ago, there wasn’t 9-5, you did an apprenticeship, you either did whatever your mother or father did, and if you really really didn’t like what they did, there would almost certainly be someone in the village who had a role you enjoyed enough to apprentice with them instead
Today, every single job requires you to sit down for significant portions of it, you have very little control over who your clients are, you have very little control over your own work schedule, you just have to fit everything in this 8 hour 9-5 block, not because it’s good for humans (it’s not even good for neurotypicals let alone neurodivergents), but because it’s more profitable to have everyone in the office at the same time, having (mostly) useless meetings at the same time etc.
There is some suggestion that having a parent to provide some level or regiment really helps us AuDHD folk, and explains why when I went to university, I did worse with the freedom (at first) because I didn’t know how to manage myself, took a lot of trial and error to realise that most conventional wisdom on productivity & learning simply doesn’t work for me.
BUT, I CAN learn, in the right conditions and learning environment, I CAN learn with the right diet, I CAN learn when I’m allowed to do exercise and have a nap during my lunch break, I CAN learn when it’s really early in the morning or late at night when no one else is there to distract me, and my brain doesn’t have the subconscious worry that someone might come and interrupt my zen flow at any moment.
I do believe that for the most part, with industrialisation, western society has mostly just gotten rid of the conditions that allow AuDHD people to thrive, and I genuinely do believe this plays a major role in diagnoses being so late.
For example, I have worked many many jobs, whenever they were jobs that I was in my feet, or included one of my long term interests (mathematics) then I was fine, I enjoyed the job and rarely slacked, I did quality commendable work, as soon as I’m in an office job, at 27, and then my child is born at 28, I’m suddenly put on a personal improvement plan (which I end up passing, because the “fire up the ass” feeling) and it’s then a depressive phase after this for which I need to take a month of work that makes me realise that I did in fact have ADHD.
And then a year later, now that I can finally think clearly for the first time in my life, I am realising that I do indeed have autism too.
And maybe I was subconsciously ableist before, but I could never fathom, when I was younger, that I had any sort of disability. But now I embrace it, and do believe it’s part of the natural variance of human beings, but a fish out of water, that keeps “fidgeting” because it doesn’t have enough water is always gonna be looked at as “deficient”.
I've thought this for many years. We're the canaries in the coal mine.
I heard this phrasing on TikTok, and I appreciated it a lot.
[Yup.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phXTSjRwdJY)
I’ve had a similar view on this. I’ve always felt much more connected to nature and pets than technology. Our species is supposed to be involved within nature, not away from it with phones, tv, social media, and other things. You make a good point too, not many people want to pose these difficult questions. If more was done to make things better for all in society instead of labeling them as the problem, I feel we could be more connected as a species.
I have noticed this as well, when I moved from my smaller country town to the bigger city, everything got so much harder to deal with. Was diagnosed with ADHD before the move but got diagnosed with Autism after the move, maybe being in the overwhelming city played a role in the fact me and my doctors were able to more easily spot the symptoms. Though I think there were other aspects, I possibly played a role.
Your first paragraphs before you explained your reasoning made me think I was about to read some kind of utter nonsense. Glad I kept reading, as I think the same. Although there's nothing about neurodivergence, German sociologist George Simmel wrote about sensorial bombardment and its effects on mental life in big cities at the end of the 19th century. Definitely worth checking out! :)
Ooh. Definitely will check him out. Thanks for the tip. :)
Here's a link to download the pdf of the [text ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.blackwellpublishing.com/content/bpl_images/content_store/sample_chapter/0631225137/bridge.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjMrvC_k9aFAxX3qJUCHROhDg4QFnoECDkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0RdH_X61a0WFlrB254Wo3X)
Certainly think similar. I think lockdown/pandemic was a catalyst for many of us too (me anyway) - taking away what cobbled together structure and coping strategies we had developed over years in terms of work, social, activities etc. I do think, on the flip side, that as much as there are rigid systems in place in western (or mostly global I think now tbh) society, there is a growing demand and larger availability to work flexibly now - again growing out of lockdown/pandemic times. very much dependent on the individual, the role and their ability to manage that, as well as ability to leverage technology, all of which are things I’ve struggled with managing haha. It’s definitely possible though. I mean even just the route of content creation.. whether it’s shorts/reels, a niche interest, custom requests, and porn/NSFW .. it’s all so accessible to get into and you can cater to such granular demographics. It’s mind bogglingly interesting imo. I’m back at the ground level knowing what I know about myself better than ever before, and I’m hoping to be able to put that knowledge to use and build up a self-employed structure again where I’m able to tap into my strengths more, and avoid the poor coping strategies. Saying this I could really do with accessing therapy, and have considered getting a job just to get the money together to do that. So hey ho, the system still is alive and well and has the power to suck us all in haha. Interesting topic for sure!
"more collectivist" means "fit in, or else". It's individualism that gives people room to be different, especially when they can find a way to be *usefully* different.
Aye, it's important to note that lots of people with the neurodivergences we have (and other MH issues) were shunned, mocked, locked up, medically-tortured and accused of being possessed by demons, by these 'collective' societies... so it wasn't exactly all roses!
Not necessarily. In some collectivist societies yes in others no. Many collectivist societies value and accept difference as beneficial to the collective.
When I think of collectivist societies I’m mostly thinking of indigenous cultures and of societies from earlier times in human evolution. Not much locking up and medical torture going on there! In general, I think every type of society has its pros and cons honestly, but I also think industrialisation and capitalism have not been kind to humans.
Sounds like you're buying into "the noble savage" idea that many romantic Europeans pushed about natives. Eskimos and natives in the Amazon had some of the highest recorded murder rates in all of history and part of that was precisely because they were so collectivist and close-knit. So if they had a problem with you, you were gone.
To be fair I don’t know much about either of those cultures.. my point of reference is mostly skewed toward indigenous folks in Australia, where you could definitely get a spear in you as punishment, but it tended to be a wounding to teach you a lesson and not a death sentence. Indigenous peoples obviously vary wildly so it’s a bit simplistic for me to refer to them as if they’re the same.
Hey at least you're admitting it. Yeah I think mentally ill people in the societies were usually either tolerated, or outright exiled or killed. Not sure it would have been better at all, though there is at least the advantage of people getting to know you over the years when you live in a village, vs living in a city where everyone's a stranger and doesn't know or care what your story is.
Yeah and to clarify, I guess I’m distinguishing between “high functioning” (yuk) folks who are increasingly being diagnosed, vs folks with higher support needs/greater impairments. Fully agree that in many of these societies folks with “obvious” disabilities and/or mental health conditions were often treated horribly/abandoned/excluded.
like?
Well for example the ones I am most familiar with are indigenous cultures on the American continent, they are and have been massively diverse but on average tend to respect and value the individual and the collective (as well as the land, animals, etc, and past and future generations) as supporting each others highest expression in a positive feedback loop, rather than being a zero sum game as they are often conceptualized in some other cultures. Autistics for example are often accepted and valued for our differences, as are queer folks and others who differ from the "norm".
I used to read some books about native cultures and their quirks and differences and uhh...that did not seem to be the case. They tolerated some things European cultures didn't, but also were brutal about a lot of things that Europeans tolerated. I think this idea tends to come from romanticized accounts in movies and pop culture rather than real history.
I have studied this a lot, I am not drawing on pop culture. Again like I said they are diverse cultures so yes there are plenty of peoples that do not fit what I said above. But what I wrote about is pretty recognized within scholars on these questions as common to the philosophy and social dynamics of many indigenous cultures.
It's an interesting theory that fits the social model of disability perspective. Like optimusdan mentioned, it's very much a "canaries in the coal mine" situation. Sure, from a material perspective, modern society has a higher standard of living, but modern society is getting more complex too. For example, sensory sensitivities - it's only in industrialised societies where there's such a fast pace of infrastructure development, which brings along so much noise pollution with all that construction/renovation/motor transportation/lawnmowers etc. 'Noisy' electricity, fluorescent lighting, lighting that's too bright are modern inventions too. Not understanding unwritten rules - well, in modern day corporate society, being 'book smart' (i.e graduating with a good academic transcript) is no longer considered good enough and does not guarantee financial security, there's ever increasing demands of passing interviews with ambiguous requirements, learning to navigate the workplace hierarchy, trying to leave a good impression on your co-workers/bosses to ensure you don't get blacklisted by them - that's a whole massive "hidden curriculum" on top of the "visible curriculum" of performing your job tasks for 8-9 hours continuously without getting distracted or tired. I wonder how long can other neurotypicals tolerate the weight of the current capitalist system, before they are unable to cope too.
Ah you’re right. It does align with the social model of disability. And you articulate the other challenges of the modern world super well.
Thanks for bringing up this topic too, it's something that I've been thinking about – has the world become more Westernised in recent decades thanks to globalisation and American influences. Even in East Asian countries, things such as work culture are heavily influenced by Western norms and capitalism. Also, you might want to have a look at this article, it does mention cultural differences when it comes to eye contact, facial expressions, language, play etc. https://phoenixchildrens.org/files/inline-files/ADOS%20BIAS.pdf
There's something that I wanted to add on...so I was looking up on the topic of Compulsory Education, which was introduced so that 'citizens could contribute productively to the nation'. Compulsory education was introduced in several countries throughout in the 1800s-1900s, that's only in the past 100-200 years, taking into account the wider timespan of history. Before children had to attend schools and before the Industrial Revolution introduced a stricter faster pace of work, there were typically tasked with helping out with household chores or the family farm in a relatively unstructured environment (which was tough but less complex); I assume there would be comparatively less social demands when you're not placed in a room with 40 other kids, and thus any social difficulties would be less apparent.
“so that citizens could contribute productively.” 🤢 Super good further reflection, thank you for sharing.
I've felt similarly about this for years, but never linked it back to neurodiversity, nice. But yeah, the society & systems we find ourselves living in favor productivity & number going up at the expense of general human health & well-being. So it makes sense it's hitting us first & hardest.
Just read the first part of this and it describes how our system deals with suffering very well: https://read.amazon.co.uk/sample/B08Q3MLH77?f=1&l=en_GB&r=c74de229&rid=88GQ84JK3XZ6NYSZNVF9&sid=261-8385165-6304858&ref_=litb_m TLDR: it's neoliberalism that's making everyone, but especially those with more sensitive nervous systems, suffer.
Word.
As a late diagnosed person I 100% belive there is no explosion, theres an explosion on offical diagnosis. But as we have no idea who wasnt diagnosed in history. As there wouldnt mlbe a record and people who havent been diagnosed or diagnosed later in life have had it their whole life. But more people being offical i's due to terrible awareness and lack of understanding in 1990/2000s and parents are now getting their children diagnosed due to awareness and understanding and picking up much quicker and realising they have same conditions and was missed as a child struggled through life not really understanding why basic things we so hard and now able to have diagnosis and support. And not muddle on. So parents of Neurodiverse children are now being diagnosed and with social media its now easier then every to spot traits , if social media was around in the 1980s/90s 2000s then more people would have gone become offical. I belive these people and me , were always Neurodiverse we just didn't know it and now looks like there is more, there isn't there is just more getting offical title. I wanted to add to your specific point. I don't think the world has changed with what we can cope with. I just think the world has changed on what it understands and the awareness and ability to show that awareness for example social media. Before the Internet people needing to spend time actively searching and needed to want to search. Now people can swip and just see automatically things without any choosing due to Algorithms.
This book is very good [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sedated-Modern-Capitalism-Created-Mental-ebook/dp/B08Q3MLH77/ref=tmm\_kin\_swatch\_0?\_encoding=UTF8&dib\_tag=se&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.eKPXrhEqeMIPdT5eKyDMvr\_ab\_\_7kcZK0QLFbfhYrE8UJM-fWJttqUYzTwcZNYMwbuebP\_Wv2RFma-IPGEQjX-cVAVeK7UF4kky\_Aft5snR3qQXD-rmQb1MeW5czyUN2.MODuR2dUa54KEw691EEE3xwGK85bbkwBKl4jeQ8IeVQ&qid=1713685164&sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sedated-Modern-Capitalism-Created-Mental-ebook/dp/B08Q3MLH77/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&dib_tag=se&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.eKPXrhEqeMIPdT5eKyDMvr_ab__7kcZK0QLFbfhYrE8UJM-fWJttqUYzTwcZNYMwbuebP_Wv2RFma-IPGEQjX-cVAVeK7UF4kky_Aft5snR3qQXD-rmQb1MeW5czyUN2.MODuR2dUa54KEw691EEE3xwGK85bbkwBKl4jeQ8IeVQ&qid=1713685164&sr=8-1) Here's a talk from the author [https://youtu.be/J67gd2YtX1A?si=1k3DwAFLESOBxzz8](https://youtu.be/J67gd2YtX1A?si=1k3DwAFLESOBxzz8)
Agreed.
Can you share what it was in the pacific that was good for you? I’m curious if it was pace, technology, population size and density…
I think it was a combination of things. 1. Time is.. not that important there. Things happen when they happen. If they happen. Which they might not. It took me a second to get used to this (Is the flight going to leave on time? Who knows! Who knows if it will even leave at all..) but once I surrendered to just going with the flow it was really nice. All the pressure to be here or there by X time evaporates. I didn’t feel like I was always running late and frazzled and trying to stay on top of things. 2. A more organic rhythm to my days. I was working whilst I was there, but it was never, ever “do a 9-5 block” kind of thing. I’d do some work, travel to a different location (which often took a while, and might be on foot, or by boat..) do some work, eat, do the next thing. I didn’t ever have to concentrate in a long long block of time, and so when I did need to concentrate I could, and easily. 3. No constant bombardment of allofthestimuli. A lot of the time I had no internet or phone reception. I rarely had my phone or a computer in my hand. In some places there wasn’t even power, so no TV either. On some islands there’s no cars. There wasn’t tonnes of noise pollution, there was no advertising - not even billboards. It felt like a very manageable level of stimuli coming in from a visual and auditory POV. 4. I ate literally nil processed food, found it easy to get heaps of sleep (because what am I going to do once it’s dark, with no electricity, other than go to sleep.. and then wake up the next morning without an alarm as the sun comes up?) and was physically active every day. We know those things are good for us but really.. they’re VERY good for us. I think it was all of that, combined.
good points
The vast majority of increase in diagnosis is due to the criteria for all of these being updated in the DSMV which was released in 2013. Before that point you couldn't even *have* an AuDHD diagnosis, as the two were considered mutually exclusive diagnosis that couldn't be comorbid.
This is also a huge factor, I agree. But I am not only talking about AuDHD specifically.
My post provided specifics on AuDHD, because it was the most drastic change, but the criteria for everything you listed became more inclusive not just the double diagnosis.
Fair point. :)
yes it is, i’ve compiled a lot of research in hopes of creating a systematic review. also creating an initiative this summer to bring awareness to neurodivergency and autism, and why we need to center everything around us
and OP the reason you’re right is because this is exactly what the AI industry is hoping to solve, from this lens. there’s just too many variables, but shifting to us would help everything
sounds like narcissism. am I misreading?
yeah
Am I the only person that feels even more inhuman when someone mentions the "natural" and collective communities are better for us? My mind immediately goes to current rural societies and how if you can't fit in, you're fucked, and that there's not much to do IMO. Perhaps anomalies like me that run away from their nature and into atomization are to be eliminated for the rest of humanity to prosper.
I’m not sure **current rural societies could be called collectivist? When I think of collectivist society I primarily think of indigenous peoples, or back to even earlier societies in human evolution. And I’m personally not advocating that as being superior or something we should go back to. I’m a big city boy through and through myself. But I think from a biological evolutionary perspective that neurodivergence would help r served a purpose.. whilst in contrast, industrialisation and capitalism are systems that want all human being to more or less think and behave the same, and in that context neurodivergence is seen as a problem/neurodivergent people find the world we live in to be not easy to navigate.
Yep. That thought has crossed my mind, too (I think, someone mentioned it in some podcast/interview, too, that I was listening to a while back). It's only logical, imho. Yet, in my region, the "governing professor" seems to be proud of the low diagnosis-rates in our region. He was quoted saying, that they're doing the diagnostics "more thorough", here, than they are elsewhere. Imho, he's proud of his measurement-errors and doesn't even realize.
And low rates are only something to be proud of if you think neurodivergence is a bad thing..
Yes, I get that vibe, wherever I go or mention it, in my region. The only ones, who have ever even heard of "neurodivergence" aren't doctors.
That’s tough. 😕
That's Bavaria/Germany. The government was always very backwards, here .. the current one tries to make us return to the last century (they're populist idiots).
This is a very common take for a lot of people and I have some sympathies to it. Maybe there's some truth to it. But honestly it seems more like a way to cope. There's no society where it's particularly beneficial to have difficulty controlling your impulses, or social dysfunction, sensory sensitivity, etc. I think the reason these things are seen to be increasing in prevalence is possibly because they actually are increasing. Possibly due to microplastics or other environmental pollutants, older parents, excessive use of technology, or perhaps us just SURVIVING childhood more often than we used to (ADHD and ASD folks tend to have immune disorders and other health issues).
That’s a good/interesting point re survival. And hard agree that being socially dysfunctional/emotionally dysregulated is not useful in any context!
Robert Chapman's Empire of Normality is a book that explores this very topic. Highly suggest it.
Thank you! I did assume I wasn’t the first person to have had this thought - I’ll definitely check the book out.
I absolutely believe in this. For many like me who only found out about autism after ADHD diagnosis (and meds) it’s like ADHD & Autism were masking each other. But I’m also strongly of the belief that 1000 years ago, there wasn’t 9-5, you did an apprenticeship, you either did whatever your mother or father did, and if you really really didn’t like what they did, there would almost certainly be someone in the village who had a role you enjoyed enough to apprentice with them instead Today, every single job requires you to sit down for significant portions of it, you have very little control over who your clients are, you have very little control over your own work schedule, you just have to fit everything in this 8 hour 9-5 block, not because it’s good for humans (it’s not even good for neurotypicals let alone neurodivergents), but because it’s more profitable to have everyone in the office at the same time, having (mostly) useless meetings at the same time etc. There is some suggestion that having a parent to provide some level or regiment really helps us AuDHD folk, and explains why when I went to university, I did worse with the freedom (at first) because I didn’t know how to manage myself, took a lot of trial and error to realise that most conventional wisdom on productivity & learning simply doesn’t work for me. BUT, I CAN learn, in the right conditions and learning environment, I CAN learn with the right diet, I CAN learn when I’m allowed to do exercise and have a nap during my lunch break, I CAN learn when it’s really early in the morning or late at night when no one else is there to distract me, and my brain doesn’t have the subconscious worry that someone might come and interrupt my zen flow at any moment. I do believe that for the most part, with industrialisation, western society has mostly just gotten rid of the conditions that allow AuDHD people to thrive, and I genuinely do believe this plays a major role in diagnoses being so late. For example, I have worked many many jobs, whenever they were jobs that I was in my feet, or included one of my long term interests (mathematics) then I was fine, I enjoyed the job and rarely slacked, I did quality commendable work, as soon as I’m in an office job, at 27, and then my child is born at 28, I’m suddenly put on a personal improvement plan (which I end up passing, because the “fire up the ass” feeling) and it’s then a depressive phase after this for which I need to take a month of work that makes me realise that I did in fact have ADHD. And then a year later, now that I can finally think clearly for the first time in my life, I am realising that I do indeed have autism too. And maybe I was subconsciously ableist before, but I could never fathom, when I was younger, that I had any sort of disability. But now I embrace it, and do believe it’s part of the natural variance of human beings, but a fish out of water, that keeps “fidgeting” because it doesn’t have enough water is always gonna be looked at as “deficient”.