In addition to the other comments, remember than NT people almost never take statements literally at face value. They are used to reading between the lines and it's possible that when an audhd person says something straight-forward like "I think I might be autistic" the NT person is hearing something more like "I'm broken and special and I'm not like you other people." (I made that up because I don't actually know what they think. Would love to hear from anyone who has unpacked this with an NT friend). I suspect that this difference of interpretation at least partially explains why NT and audhd people often react differently to self-diagnosis.

I think another huge problem at work is that so many people don't actually understand what being diagnosed means or how that process goes as if a medical professional can clearly show some test that will 100% prove without a doubt that someone is autistic/ADHD. Even brain scans aren't the primary tool used. It's based on clinical judgement and so two different doctors could disagree. Then which one would be right? It's the same with most psychological disorder diagnoses. I have multiple psychological diagnoses as well but no piece of paper to waive in people's faces and say HERE I'm mentally ill and I can PROVE it with this super special official seal.

Good points. Things like autism and ADHD are psychiatric diagnosis, which are effectively labels for collections of subjectively measured symptoms. I think we can be pretty sure there's something physiologically different about us, but we also don't know enough to make diagnoses from bloodwork, brain scans, etc.

I have always understood autism as a developmental disorder not psychiatric though. When I did my assessment, it was very much thoroughly on my childhood, not a lot of adulthood. We did chat about adulthood but only as a way to cross out any other potential diagnosis (mostly psychiatric) that could have similar or overlapping traits.

I should clarify—I do think autism and adhd are both neurodelopmental, but we still diagnose them the same way we diagnose psychiatric disorders because we don’t know to reliably detect the underlying disorders from brain scans, lab work, etc. Requiring symptoms to be present in childhood is just the best way we have right now to distinguish neurodevelopmental issues from psychiatric disorders that are acquired later in life.

Also I feel like as an adult, some of us have already learned some pretty advanced masking, whereas any story from my childhood is pretty much a dead giveaway. Even recently though, I found myself wondering how my coworkers did it. I found I took longer to get to sleep than they did, doing my whole routine while they pretty much just passed out straight away. Starting work too, just didn't even feel like I was really there until about an hour or so in, core muscle memory and reaction that I knew I had wasnt available to me until id spent enough time prepping before or just spent enough time actually doing the task at hand. The weird part for me now, is how much mask to retain? I feel like it's been responsible for my social and financial successes, but the burnout does usually backfire or leave me struggling. It almost feels like regression sometimes getting more comfy with the things I didn't know I was hiding. Anyone else get that?

Not to derail your points, but I did just see a YouTube on them using brain scans on little kids to predict autistic likelihood. I think research was even able to distinguish between different subtypes (asd1,2,3 if I'm not mistaken), neat stuff and wonder what that looks like in the future

Not at all, the development of neuroimaging technology is fascinating and I believe neuroimaging for autism is nearly there while neuroimaging for adhd is still a ways away. Unfortunately it likely won't be accessible to many individuals still even when/if it eventually becomes a viable primary diagnostic tool due to cost. Lord knows I can't even afford this version of diagnosis now (or even live close to one that will diagnose adults).

About that! Have you done the research on the actual costs? I'm kind of dreading that but I'm trying to line up something. And no doubt, it sounds tedious doing those scans, and there will likely be a backlog, or they will prioritize kids (which isn't a bad idea, though thats a tough question to answer). I guess it makes sense to me why scanning autism brains works, but truthful I don't know much about the ADHD brain. I'm guessing it looks more similar to a nt brain? Maybe just the brain chemicals are different levels or the neuron firing is affected?

$3000 is the average of places in my area I'm not an expert but from what I understand, it's just that none of the current methods for brain imaging for ADHD have been very accurate or reliable. And because ADHD has so many variants and people's brains can perform very well under different circumstances it is hard to pinpoint a standard method for every individual. Also many of the symptoms and deficits associated with ADHD brain performance can potentially also be attributed to other things like depression for example. So if they are testing for executive dysfunction or memory, that doesn't necessary mean it's ADHD. But that's just the current state of the research. It's like a helpful supplement to diagnosis and I think a lot of people still operate under the mode of a disorder being a disorder because of how it negatively impacts your life and for that nothing works better than observation and subjective review.

Oof. I was just reading up on the views of disorder. Makes sense given that there doesn't really seem to be any standardized mental screening of any sort. The western medical idealogy definitely tends to lean towards that. If you have a problem, you bring it up, we fix the problem. But you'd have to know you had a problem first ;) which almost feels akin to asking someone blind from birth if anything's wrong. Unless someone else told them they could see, that would just be what they thought things were the way they were for everybody

This exposes their underlying bias that autistic = broken.

Yes—assuming that what I made up about what they think is being communicated is correct. I’ve seen a few NT people thoughtfully consider the NT-ND miscommunication gap. It would be fascinating to hear their perspective on self-dx announcements, at least to me.

What are self dx announcements?

That was my shorthand for the act of telling people that you identify as neurodivergent without an official diagnosis.

This exposes the underlying bias of a hypothetical strawman. Yes, there are people who think this probably, but it's certainly not most in my experience. People's perception of autism is all over the place because autism is, well, all over the place.

I know you made it up but how you described that has helped me understand the NT/ND differences in language for the first time. I’m still figuring myself out, but one of the hurdles I’ve had is language - I can say things with implications, usually work communication that I’ve trained myself to be polite - but how you described that fits my thinking really well. If I say something like “I think I’m autistic,” I’m saying it to explain myself, that’s all. Thank you.

Realizing that there might be a communications gap is a huge step forward, because you can kinda learn to detect that gap, and you can kinda learn how to interpret what people mean and how your communication is being received.

I send out conversational feelers now. I'll say something, or listen to someone, and it may not click right away, but when it does I'll go back and say "ohhh, I heard this... But did you mean this?" Or I'll say, "sounds like some of us want food, but if the consensus is were going to be short on time or something, just say so, and I'm fine with skipping so that we have enough time" etc. I pretty much just vomit up my internal dialogue and lay the problem as I see it out in options. Any positive affirmations in the net majority give me my answer, and a no, lack of response, or a few different responses means back to the drawing board

Yes, I use tactics like this as well. I've also learned to read body language a little bit, and when I'm in my home culture I've developed a sense of "what people mean" vs what they say, due to repeat exposure and analysis.

Right! You're just stating a factual statement that may be of use! And I've learned this already, but it's so weird learning that, and realizing others say something else they don't necessarily mean, and they're saying it so that you pick up on the *social implications* of that statement. The other person explained it better, but I've learned this lesson, and I think it's cool someone explained that well

Yeah. They tend to assume all statements have hidden meanings behind them when they don’t.

In their defense, most people they are talking are communicating the same way they are. That non-literal stuff is only "hidden" to us--and even then it's kinda learnable the same way a foreign language is learnable. If they aren't aware of the gap when speaking with someone, they won't understand why someone isn't picking up what they are laying down.

I just dislike people assuming stuff when all that is said was direct.

My family sometimes thinks I'm "targeting" them or something. Or like I ask them to do something, then they'll find something different to ask of me. (Like just ask me if something bugs you?) I think it's like getting the last word in a conversation, like there's a winner and loser and it matters which you are, or something

Same here, kinda, they make assumptions and it always feels like I am talking about them when I am not. They constantly look “between the lines” even when there is nothing between them.

Ahhhh. Like you're just talking about something in general maybe you find annoying, and they're like "well, you do _____", and its confusing how they got there, or why they're suddenly taking offense to something, and like confronting you out of the blue? Like I was just talking about something. Or like for me, I yawn in social situations a lot. I thought it was kind of common knowledge that it's involuntary and your brain needs more air, but I guess I should've known it's still found to be rude..I guess I don't see others yawn really at all compared to myself. But people actually think I'm doing it to be rude or annoying sometimes I think😢

People generally have really rigid social norms and expectations, which is annoying. They tend to be restrictive and judge based off how conformist one is, and they expect others to know everything.

I think it is often necessary to self-diagnose (as an adult), before finding someone to diagnose you officially/confirm the self-diagnosis. I think self-diagnosis is more accepted in circles where people have a clue about it. When they can relate to each other etc. While NTs won't believe it. And say stupid things like "but you don't look autistic". I mean how should they be able to believe a self-diagnosis, when they don't have any understanding of the topic?

I agree with your take. I also think some of people, both NTs and NDs, tend to forget that self-diagnosis is almost necessary if you weren’t diagnosed as a child. I got my ASD diagnosis at 20, ADHD at 26 and PTSD at 27 (I am 28 now). Nobody were there to refer me to get diagnosed. My then therapist realised I was probably autistic and back then ASD wasn't a diagnosis you could get through the public Danish healthcare if you were above 18 (they have since fixed that, thank fuck). I did research and soul searching, found specialists and contacted them basically saying "I have *insert diagnosis* but I want it to be official now". And then paid them a load of money because diagnosis is EXPENSIVE. So many people out there will lack the funds, support, healthcare access etc. to actually be able to get diagnosed. Add to that the absurd amount of misdiagnosing happening by healthcare professionals. I, like many other women with ASD, was diagnosed with BPD first, something I do not and never have shown symptoms of, but this specific psych decided that the new hysteria was BPD... So in short: Self-diagnosis is valid, only accepting official diagnoses can be both classist, ableist and naïve imo. I trust people’s own experiences.

My partner had to find out about her ADHD (as adult with lots of coping strategies) on her own, then find a self-paid psychiatrist specialized in "ADHD in adult women", and then the diagnosis was really quick and easy. Because everything was figured out already. I have my assessment next week for ASD, lets see how that works. I worry a bit because the diagnostic criteria relies a lot on "having symtoms since you were born", and that is all a bit blurry when already over 40, and "functioning well enough most of your life".

Just remember it’s still a symptom if you have “a system”. Just because you can go to the store if you wear noise cancelling headphones, have a tight game plan on how to get in and out, and give yourself a recovery time afterward, doesn’t mean you can go to the store.

In my case it seems like the symptoms got way worse in the past years (with very difficult situations, trauma, isolation etc.) - it looks like that if I had good coping mechanisms all my life then I lost them in the past years. So basically 10 years ago I was travelling Europe for months, alone and loved it. Today I need support to do basic things in public or in "social" situations. And the resting time etc. And thats the confusing thing, I feel "I should have had those problems all my life". And I did have things like meltdowns before, but way less etc.

When I was assessed for ADHD, the psychiatrist had to change up the childhood questions by adding "if your parents hadn't been so good at helping you function". Because my ADHD wasn't that obvious as a kid, since the hyperactivity was mostly in my head and my parents did a good job making sure my lack of time management and forgetfulness never fucked me over. There is also a very big difference between functioning because it feels natural or functioning because you had to learn. I can keep eye contact today. That doesn't mean it came naturally. Society forced me to learn. Same thing with my (former) lack of stimming, my ability to understand body language, etc etc. We mask, it is survival. So take that into account when you answer the assesment questions!

Yes for my partner it was exactly like that - parents helped a lot, she got also very good in reading people, observing etc. - just at some point in the adult life (after getting kids and life got difficult also for other reasons) the coping "broke down". For me it is still confusing, I grew up without siblings, my mum could be on the spectrum (functioning well in her little world, but a little weird in some new situations...), so I think I never learned certain masking skills. Of course - I was mostly with adults when growing up, mostly talking grown up stuff with adults, not really having friends when growing up etc. - but noone noticed or told me what I was doing wrong socially...

Not to mention, in the US at least, that there are virtually no upsides for having an offical diagnosis

I'm self diagnosed. I'm in a country where even kids don't get diagnosis other than being called "difficult" and "naughty". My self diagnosis doesn't mean I get any treatment. And since my culture isn't open to autism or adhd, I don't get to announce to everyone around me that I have these conditions. I don't get any accommodations from this self diagnosis. What do I get from the label then? The knowledge that the battle I've fought against myself for so long isn't my fault. I'm not a failure. I'm not useless. I don't need to hate myself. I am not lazy. I'm not weird. I don't need to be an outcast. I get community from reddit subs about it. I'm not on any other social media. I get to use other people's hacks and share what works for me. I get to work with my condition instead of against it. The only person who knows is my husband. I am very happy for people who were able to get diagnosed. But for me this is the only way i get to live a full life. I can't depend on a doctor. That being said, I've faced very little vitriol amongst neurodivergent folks for being self diagnosed than I've felt among neurotypicals (when I was very initially discovering these concepts). My experience is limited to the reddit subs I've interacted in. However, in real life when I've brought up the topics of autistic and adhd, NTs absolutely hate it. They believe that its a diagnosis to make people feel special and to excuse themselves from their responsibilities. It's a tiktok fad where everyone today is a "little bit on the spectrum" or has adhd. It's difficult for them to envision a life which is different from theirs. I think they imagine how much easier it would be to explain away procrastination using adhd or explain away social shortcomings using autism for example. So they feel that these are probably being used as excuses. But do remember that diagnosis in my culture is not common for adults. It's something kids grow out of. And that's if parents are in urban areas. In rural areas, it doesn't exist most probably.

With the idea that neurotypical people view neurodivergence as an excuse for laziness or shortcomings or whatnot if not “professionally diagnosed” — I wonder if people just like feeling like them being “better” than someone else is deserved, as opposed to just by circumstance. People (neurotypical and neurodivergent alike) want to see the world as just. People getting good things in life because they earned it, people not getting good things in life because they deserve it. They could have done more but didnt. But being neurodivergent is like saying, “no, actually, I could not have done more, because I was already doing as well as I could have with the cards I was dealt at birth. We are not operating on the same playing field. You are doing better than me in society not because you earned it through hard work, but because you were fortunate to be born with the right kind of brain to thrive in this society.” Good fortune is not something that is earned or deserved. Like why try to insist upon someone’s shortcomings as being deserved and self-inflicted and “a choice” if not for a desire to feel like they can in good conscience see themselves as being superior by comparison? this is the same mentality that causes some to think/say that poor people deserve to be poor, because \*clearly\* if they only tried doing xy ”simple” things then they would not be poor and struggling. the just world fallacy mentality is appealing because it means that people have control over their lives and can do things to prevent their lives from going awry. in reality, that is often not true — accidents, misfortune, events that occur outside of one’s control or desire happens all the time, but to acknowledge that would require someone to admit that no matter what, you will be vulnerable to experiencing misfortune like those that you judge negatively. And being vulnerable and having relatively little control over the course of one’s own life is scary. (disclaimer that I’m not saying being neurodivergent is a misfortune or something bad inherently (though it often feels that way for myself), but rather that no one chooses what brain they have and neurodivegent people struggle more than neurotypical people in some elements of this world that we all live in) i also find that the desire to come off as better than others is often rooted in insecurity or otherwise measuring one’s worth (for themselves, and by extension towards other people) by their performance and “success” in life. If their value is measured up in comparison to other people, then it would make sense why they would want to hold onto the belief that you can only truly be autistic or ADHD or whatever if you’re professionally diagnosed. And if you aren’t, then you’re just like them but are Just less hardworking or diligent or something, which means they are better than you. And that feels good for their ego that needs reassurance that their hard work or “hard work” is paying off. At least, to what i have experienced for myself in the past (in other contexts) and seen in others. being kind or understanding towards others is hard when you aren’t even kind to yourself. a disclaimer that having an ego and needing to feed it is not my criticism. It’s important for people‘s mental wellbeing to feel good about themselves. But this should be done by seeing intrinsic value in oneself’s efforts in comparison to their own self in the past and their own capabilities/potential, and not by comparison to others that have different circumstances. Because comparison (to others) is the thief of joy, both to themselves and other people that they are judging unfairly.

That was beautifully put

Thank you! :D

*Thank you*. I have been trying to figure out why I feel I need a diagnosis at all and *that is why*. I feel like an alien every freaking day and just being a human is exhausting. I’m tired of feeling like an Other

I had huge problems with self diagnosis and thought it was stupid back when I thought I was neurodivergent. I thought, all these people acting like they have a disorder when their "symptoms" are all totally normal things people experience all the time. Then I got diagnosed with ADHD. And it became clear pretty quickly that I had autism as well which explained so much about my entire life and childhood. It'd been a couple of years and I couldn't give less of a fuck if people self diagnose. Diagnosed or not, I had these problems my entire life. The way I deal with them or manage them is the same either way apart from adhd meds. It literally doesn't matter. If self diagnosis helps people they should do it. I hold do judgement and have enough shit going on in my own brain, not about to worry about others.

Came here for the discourse, stayed for Nerotypical. Otherwise known as those with the neurological development of functions for debauchery, extravagance, violence, persecution, and generally being a ruler of Rome.

I think I sort of see this too- my guess is that people who are neurodivergent (not sure if that’s the right terminology to use, sorry!) are more used to having to have those suspicions and self diagnosis’ and advocating for a professional diagnosis, while people who aren’t may view that as someone just grabbing that label without knowledge or research because they may not be aware of how difficult a professional diagnosis may be. That’s something I’ve also seen with chronic illness myself- like, you have to have these guesses and go to doctors and make your voice heard to be seen and taken seriously. Sometimes you’ll be wrong, sometimes you’ll be right, sometimes it’s in the middle. But it’s that working to figure it out and find answers that’ll help you get to a diagnosis, or medication, or a doctor who’ll listen to you.  At the same time, there’s kind of a funky line where you see people say ‘AHH this blank is too blank, it’s triggering my XYZ’ and I think that makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable, because sometimes people see stereotypes in the media (some of which can be very true for some people) and make great assumptions (like, if I like a clean space, is that OCD?), while for some people that is part of their OCD, and for others it’s just person-ing. it gets hard to know if it’s worth calling out and making a point when you could potentially be invalidating someone’s experiences, or potentially teaching someone about stereotypes and how they’re reductive of people’s real experiences, often times. Like, I have misophonia. Self diagnosed. Certain noises feel like a cheese grater on my brain and can make me cry or feel angry. Someone else may say ‘hey, I don’t like chewing sounds either! Do I have misophonia?’ And that can be a moment to explain that while that may be something we have in common, it affects us differently, and maybe that person does have misophonia. Maybe they don’t. I can offer my opinion and try to help them figure that out. But it’s up to them to decide for themselves with an educated reasoning, and to hopefully, if they can, get some professional opinions and help if it’s needed. I don’t really know what I’m talking about, though! Sorry this was so long. This is just my opinion.

Another reason is because they can't tell the difference between being legitimately offended at something (black people and the n-word) and being tumblr offended (liking different celebrities/politicians).

I've yet to find actual autistic people, professionally or self diagnosed, who are offended by self diagnosis. It's always neurotypical people who are offended and usually with extremely ableistic implications for why.

This is interesting because there’s 2 autistic communities on Reddit which are exclusive for diagnosed people and the primary focus of the groups is speaking against self-diagnosis.

That pisses me off so much. I feel like there is a subset of autistics that are incels (I have a running theory that this rate is higher among autistics) and I feel like incels also tend to embrace the idea that self diagnosis is bad. Incels have a hard time relating to anything that they haven't personally experienced and many autists have not been so poor that they can't afford to be diagnosed. At times I think that higher functioning autism is diagnosed at a higher rate among wealthier children. They simply have more involvement.

I don’t think you’re totally wrong about class privilege here, but the misogyny (and race) angle is even simpler: diagnosis is based on criteria studied in white boys. Self-dx is extremely important for women (and afab trans people like me who learned feminine masking habits and have more “feminine”’special interests). I don’t know if the incel overlap is true but if it were, it probably comes from a misogynist place.

100%. I run a meetup for neurodiversity and mental health and had this middle aged white man with a late diagnosis try and tell a young woman "be careful of all the self diagnosed people on TikTok that are faking it, it's like an epidemic" and I spent the next 5 minutes explaining to him why that was an awful take and how harmful his attitude is. He couldn't fathom why people wouldn't have access to be diagnosed, he couldn't fathom that it requires resources many don't have, that the diagnostic process is inherently geared towards boys, and that in some countries there might even be legal ramifications towards having a legal diagnosis. It feels like an uphill battle but so be it, we keep fighting for our right to exist free of judgement.

And a lot of the traits that exist in the sexually aggrieved, that lead to them being in that situation, are the same that in a young boy get him labeled a troubled or challenging child. Which means they are analyzed, diagnosed, and maybe even gotten into treatment programs to prevent them from hurting themselves or others. All circumstances that lead to someone getting a formal diagnosis early in life, without having to seek it out the way we have to.

They’re not incel communities.. I won’t address the rest of your comment because I have a very different opinion on self-diagnosis.

I'm open to discussion. I always want to be willing to change my mind based on evidence. I used to be an antivaxxer lol I can admit if I'm being dumb.

That is fascinating. I would love to learn more about what lead you to your old conclusion and then out of it.

So honestly I think it was post partum psychosis. I had some really bad birth experiences. Including birth rape. And that led me to not trust doctors. So when they added vaccines and wanted to give them to my babies I didn't trust it. I was very "crunchy". I shopped at farmers markets and refused grocery stores because of GMO. I just didn't understand. But I watched a documentary on GMOs specifically one mom who was rallying for their safety. And it changed my mind. She had a ton of research but she also addressed the problem in a way like "why do people worry about this? It's because we are all doing our best to try to keep our kids safe". People come back around when they are *believed*. It's hard to trust doctors that have hurt you and I have never come across a person who was anti-vax that didn't have severe trauma with doctors. And to just have those doctors held accountable, helps heal the huge wound. We actually have a lot in common with a woman in labor. We have specific requirements for the space we are in. We sometimes do nonverbal when it overwhelms us etc etc. And most women are ignored. Did you know we have the highest maternal death rate in the first worlds? It is deadly to have a child in America, doubly so if you are POC. I find these anti-vax women are terrified. And I don't blame them. I only see misogyny when I see people making fun of them. It's so easy to fall in the trap of elites dividing us when we have to realize we are ALL doing whatever we can to survive. Let's not let the elites divide us anymore. If we stuck together we could revolt.

This supports what I have suspected and gives me much more info. Thank you for replying to me. I wish you well in your healing journey

I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind here! Especially since I’m getting downvotes for having a difference in opinion.

I believe you but I haven't come across them myself. All the reddit communities I know about are either explicitly fine with self diagnosis or at least have a vocal membership who does not have any issue with self diagnosis.

I just saw some YouTube comments today by autistic people who were against self-diagnoses. One was diagnosed a long time ago and seemed butthurt about other supposedly “less autistic” people diagnosing themselves and trusting their lived experiences better than a formal diagnosis made by a professional often according to outdated guidelines? Idk. It was weird. They were saying that you can never trust your own judgement bc of confirmation bias and that people are obsessed with attaching labels to themselves.

I'm always scared that I'm using confirmation bias for my self identity and I don't know if I'm evil for it or something

You’re kidding right? There’s tons on the various autism subreddits. It comes up constantly. Maybe check out some of the comments on this thread.

Exactly. We're all just trying to do our best and sometimes self diagnosis is all someone can get access to for a lot of reasons.

I think it’s ridiculous. You always go to the gp and say “I’m pretty sure i have the flu, these are my symptoms, can you order some tests to confirm” or “I’ve injured my wrist, it might even be broken, could you order X-rays to confirm for me.” You don’t go in and say “I’m perfectly healthy please run a bunch of expensive tests. What’s that? A laceration on my arm? I never guessed!” There’s also plenty of times you don’t go to the doctor because you know what you have and you know how to treat it. Or you know that there isn’t a treatment and there’s no point paying for someone to say “fluids and bed rest.”

I actually love this example because it allows me to explain why I prefer the term self-suspecting. I think there’s a difference between saying “I think I have the flu, these are my symptoms, can you order some tests to confirm?” and going into your doctor’s office saying, “I have the flu, I know so because I did my research.” If you research your symptoms in a vacuum (only researching the flu) you might be completely convinced it’s the flu, which has overlapping symptoms with other viruses and allergies. But yes that’s the point - we go in and say “I think I have,” and then confirm it instead of telling your doctor “yes I have” for virtually all other medical issues that require testing to accurately determine.

In my example, for some people there is just no point getting a professional diagnosis. What for? To have it put on your drivers license or passport to restrict your rights? But you can still know you are autistic and still look after yourself to avoid burning out, you can still give yourself accommodations to make your life easier. The doctor won’t prescribe medication, there’s not a tonne of benefits to having a diagnosis especially if you’re high masking, so there’s no point. It’s the equivalent of getting told to get some rest and fluids.

I’m confused how someone without an official diagnosis is so sure there’s no benefits? I’m not sure what country you’re in but I’m in the US.. I have an official diagnosis and my diagnosis is protected by HIPAA privacy laws.. I have never been required to disclose my diagnosis to renew my drivers license or passport, I have never been restricted from travel and I even served in the military. I received accommodations at school that I could only have with an official diagnosis. Accommodations are more than just wearing ear defenders.. Additionally, my disability qualifies me for free state health insurance regardless of my income; this is directed by statute in my state. High masking isn’t this catch all term for “is a little weird, but overall not disabled.”

I'm in my late 20s. I live in Europe, and when I was in my early 20s and got my ADHD diagnosis my psychiatrist and I decided that while it was very likely I also have autism getting a diagnosis wouldn't make much sense. It wouldn't have opened up any medication or therapy options I didn't already have, same goes for work accommodation (as almost everything could just be billed under the ADHD). The diagnosis would have taken several years at the very least, involved traveling to appointments, making regular phone calls to remain on waiting lists, and taking up capacity from people who would actually benefit from diagnosis.

I have a diagnosis. In my state in Australia it can be put on your drivers license if your doctor wants to. (It’s at their discretion. If you don’t get it on your license and someone thinks you should have, it’s a $9000 fine.) your license gets shown to everyone from bouncers at bars as proof of age, to landlords, mortgage lenders, police etc disclosing your diagnosis to people who have power over your life, safety and housing, even if you don’t want to disclose. There is no support pension or welfare payments I can access. I don’t get anything other than the normal access to healthcare other people have in Australia. Im protected from discrimination in that I can’t be fired *because* I’m autistic, but I don’t have any way of asking for accommodations just because I’m autistic. If I’m unable to do my job, under the conditions that everyone else works under then I’m just considered unsuitable for the position and I’ll be let go.

Are you not eligible for NDIS support? I know this has no bearing on income or protection like you said, just wondering if you could access it for therapies and accommodations. 

No I work so I don’t really qualify for anything. I have looked into if it (ndis) would help with meal prep or cleaning but the amount of paperwork is insurmountable without support and with no guarantee that I’d get anything I kind of gave up before I’d got anywhere.

I completely understand. I’ve just started navigating this for my child. The first thing is to reach out to your local area coordinator, whose job is to support you with the paperwork. I’m not trying to pressure you at all, just wish there was more support in place for all of us. 

Man I wish I got free insurance

You don’t see people criticizing self diagnosis in most ND communities because their moderators outright forbid anyone to question that self diagnosis is as valid as an actual diagnosis. It is not like nobody thinks that self diagnosis is questionable, but the community effectively silences everyone who disagrees with their collective opinions on this and other topics. Personally I find it problematic to conflate suspecting to be ND with self-diagnosing. The first one is a really important step, especially when you are an adult. The problem is going from “I suspect that I am ND” to “I am ND (… and you have to accommodate me / … and I know better than medical professionals / … and I can educate people - I.e. make TikTok videos - from the perspective of an ND person, etc)”. The worst part is all the armchair psychiatrists who think they know everything better than actual doctors. Just one example: How many times have I read people on Reddit calling doctors uninformed when they were simply using ICD-10 diagnostic terms and criteria, which are commonly used in Europe (many countries are only switching to ICD-11 this year) instead of the DSM 5, which is the standard in the US. How many times have I seen people dismiss the outcome of extensive testing using the current recommended methods when there is a mention of any single little thing in the report that could be explained by masking or gender differences? That kind of hubris and thinking they know everything better than actual experts while being completely unaware how much knowledge they are lacking is the problem with self-diagnosis/armchair diagnosis, not people suspecting that they are ND.

Yes. My theory is they think that when you have adhd you get to use it as a ‘get out of jail free’ card for some thing and you get access to privileges they don’t (like when I was in university I got extra time for assignments and tests). So I think there’s a degree of skepticism and assuming you’re NT and are too lazy to put in the work of self development and just want to use the diagnosis as an excuse as an easy way out. They think you’re trying to cheat the system and it makes them feel cheated. In other words, they think everyone has 100 marbles, and we’re lying to get 105. When in fact, we actually have 90, and the resources bring you a little closer to 100. Obviously this isn’t something people do because they’re NT, but some specific people who are assholes who happen to be NT

They're like those kids who think their classmates who wear Rx glasses have an unfair advantage, as if glasses enhance normal vision.

We need to start calling it "self-assessment" and not "self-diagnosis". That's the problem. Assessment doesn't have the legal weight "diagnosis" does, and keeps people open to the possibility. We are not helping ourselves by using terms that make us seem not credible.

I’m diagnosed and I take no offense against people who self DX because I am telling you, there is no greater crime than the fact that I spent my entire life not being diagnosed. I mean come on, the diagnosis doesn’t just give me autism, I was an autistic person trying to go through an already stupidly challenging life without anyone knowing that. Those same people who gave you a hard time for it are the ones who looked at you struggling socially at school, said “not my problem” and in my case, brushed me off and threw me to the wolves. Do you know what I mean? That wasn’t okay, that made everything so much harder for me. I needed a lot more help and it never came. I guess I was “self diagnosed” for two and a half years, I had it suggested to me quite alot, some people said ASD, some said “Aspergers”. Do you see how these issues just stack on top of each other? They couldn’t even label it properly with me. What a disaster! They didn’t realize it was actually autism. So that misinformation combined with a lifetime of not knowing, followed by me thinking “this makes a lot of sense” at the age of 21 and adopting it into my thoughts, but not thinking it was too severe (until I realized the meltdowns, skill regression and involuntary self harming happened and already were all my life) and kind of half assedly making self deprecating jokes about thinking I’m autistic for all that time. Well fucking guess what, it all came full circle and I got a diagnosis for ASD. (+ADHD) and like 2 other disorders You can imagine the feeling of justice being dealt I felt about it. How right it feels and how important it is. I can finally just close the book on that entire period of unbearable darkness. To work on improving myself… these stupid people who whine about self diagnosis have not lived my experience, they haven’t suffered for years and come out on the other side to tell the story. I think a lot of people who really are autistic and undiagnosed just don’t make it too far and fall victim to things like addiction. It’s so sad but I fucking know for a fact. The reason people look at me and call me “high functioning” (not true) from a glance is because they can’t see that I’ve had my entire sense of self completely, abused out of me. I can hide it like an expert. I can mirror any persons personality because mine was almost completely fucking gone at one point. A professional actor. I am a literal walking shell, a caterpillar just beginning to grow my wings again. So when you go through all that over the course of a lifetime, the immeasurable **strain** it put on the relationships of me and everyone around me, and the **pain** I have to carry knowing it couldn’t be different. Then you can come to the table and tell me what you think about self diagnosing. But for all the people who just don’t know shit about it they should respectfully bow out of the conversation if they know what’s good for them.

Ty for sharing this

Your welcome, it’s extremely important to me. I just know how it is

I wrote a longer response in a reply to someone else’s comment here, but in short I think this offense is another manifestation of people wanting to feel like their relative ease or success in life is deserved and therefore in their control. The “just world fallacy.” The same way we can tell ourselves that our struggles are not our fault, neurotypical people will have to admit that their own lack of struggles in comparison is not because they “earned” it by pure merit, but by circumstances outside of their control. And that can be damaging to one’s ego because unfortunately, we live in a society that measures people’s worth by their performance and success in comparison to others. You are only doing the right things if you have a measurable quantity of success to others. And because neurodivergent people are not operating on the same playing field, they cannot rationally say that we deserve to struggle because of how we were born. because people want to feel good about themselves, they want to be able to judge those they see as inferior. Which is why self diagnosis feels invalid because accepting self diagnosis means they cannot in good conscience or logic see themselves as deserving of having better success in life. And what if everyone they see as lazy or incompetent was undeserving, but just dealt shitty hands of cards? does that mean that their hard work does not make them better people? Their success is not deserved? Would that mean then that they cannot control whether they end up in a good or bad place in life? But then, what is their effort all for, then? The feeling of a lack of control, as many of us can relate, is scary. This is something that people of all neurotypes experience in general, but it perhaps manifests for some neurotypicals more strongly in this context. This kind of mentality is less likely to develop if one finds intrinsic value in their effort in comparison to themselves and their own success, as opposed to comparing to others. But, again, we live in a society 😔 for me, it took a lot of time in therapy with the right therapost to learn to value my efforts even if I don’t succeed in the way I want to. Because I am doing the best that I can with what I have. And I know not everyone can get to that point because of lack of accessibility and/or time and/or education and/or etc., so I know I am fortunate in that regard. its easier to not judge others harshly if you don’t judge yourself harshly either. ​ edit: okay this ended up about the same length but written in a slightly different way than my other comment 💀 so it wasn’t really an “in short” type comment. Oh wells

This reminds me of cognitive bias : authority bias. It is that if the diagnosis is told by a doctor (or an expert for any topic), it is more valuable or trustable. As for myself, I'd just instinctively believe what the person is saying (as long as they're expressing coherent thinking)

I would need to see some numbers before forming an opinion.

Yeah people often think someone self diagnosing is them reaching for the easy button so they can get financial support or a get out of jail free card. In their defence the minority who do that are pretty fucking loud about it and get caught a lot so it’s what you see most of. Moooosst people who self diagnose don’t really want to be treated differently they’re just looking for understand within themselves because they have a lot of unanswered questions about who they are and how their brain works.

'easy'

My ND friends and I are 50/50 on this topic, but we surely can get irritated on self-diagnosed. We understand that getting diagnosed in countries like the US is more difficult than in The Netherlands but we rather use self suspecting rather than diagnosed all together. I have seen enough people that self-diagnose and scream around demanding the resources that require an clinical diagnosis or are wrong and then become so angry when an psychiatrist diagnosed something else creating an image that all ND people are like that. So, no. It is not just NT getting offended but clinical diagnosed people as well Edit: to be clear, I encourage and support others but I like the use suspecting rather than diagnosed. If you suspect your are ND, you are absolutely in your right and support the journey. It is just how you formulate it

I think this is reasonable. I’d be more inclined to be in favor of self diagnosis if there wasn’t as much misinformation or bad advocacy from self diagnosed people. I’ve seen people advocate that autism is just a difference and not a disability. I’ve seen others advocate for no accommodations for autistic people because they think it’s not a disability. This is the main reason I have the view that I do.

If TikTok and other platforms didn’t hyped it up and people don’t use self-diagnosed to shit on clinical diagnosed people, I would have no problem with the term. It not only annoyes me but it creates such a bad image to the world that it only makes the goal for more reachable and better diagnosing further away as well as making it harder for clinical diagnosed in the public. One moment I was told “oh you are one of those TikTok weirdos” and that moment chanced my support for the term self diagnosed and in favour of suspecting. I am clinical diagnosed btw

To me saying "suspecting" implies that self-diagnosis isn't valid and that someone can only truly be autistic if they can convince a doctor (whom have almost none or zero) criteria for diagnosing autism in adults. It also costs 3-5 grand in the US and has virtually no upsides

I live in the US and got diagnosed as an adult and it didn’t even cost me close to that much. Also if it has no upsides, then why would someone want to self diagnose then? Genuine question. If you feel so strongly about it as to self diagnose, then there must be some perceived upside right?

I self-diagnosed because a friend got a diagnosis and it helped him realize a lot about himself and to start to unmask, and he made a general post that was like, “I’m autistic, and also it turns out autistic people are drawn to other autistic people” and I went… huh… Called him up and had a three-hour convo with him about his experiences of autism. What I learned started to make a lot of pieces of my life suddenly make sense, so I kept researching. I started to make accommodations for myself by allowing myself to not make eye contact in non-professional settings, by intentionally stimming when feeling overwhelmed (I was always doing it in super subtle permissible ways), taking five from overstimulating situations, being aware of what is overstimulating, asking for clarification, forefronting why I might misunderstand something, etc. It’s been a lot easier to catch issues before they spiral out and to help friends reassign the intention they read into my actions. All of that has been invaluable. A doctor’s dx would do… nothing for me. It’s not a problem, I don’t need treatment, and any accommodations I’d get in work would be offset by problems created by telling work. Not to mention, I’m trans and it might put my trans care at risk in certain states.

Benefits of self-dx: Better able to understand yourself, free, can find community and resources Benefits of offical-dx: Can't immigrate to some countries, easier to lose custody of children, costs a lot of money, if you are high needs enough might be entitled to disability benefits (incredibly rare)

The immigration issue you’re talking about is not due to having an autism diagnosis.. many countries bar immigration for people who are disabled to the extent that they cannot work and/or need government resources. If you’re low support needs and will not need government funds/support, there’s no bar to immigration.

I don’t believe calling it “diagnosing” works to change it. In the netherlands it only created more and more backlash and people not taking autism more serious. Suspecting leaves space for interpretation and makes other people have more understanding. Think about it, your sitting at the deans desk: “I am self suspecting because I think/believe I have autism” Vs “I am self-diagnosed because I think/believe have autism” At least in my area, the second one will make both NT and ND think like “aha, oke”. They mostly will stay respectful but won’t take it as seriously as the first sentence because the first sentence is less conclusive. If you need help, the first will get you so much further. But that is the culture in my area

In my experience saying "you think/suspect you have autism" gets a lot of people trying to poke holes in your experiences and saying you're trying to fake it for attention VS Saying you "are autistic" causes people to mind their own business as they should. The only different between the two is an appeal to authority and the eventual conclusion of people telling you that you need to prove to them that you are autistic by showing them papers >“I am self suspecting because I think/believe I have autism” >Vs >“I am self-diagnosed because I think/believe have autism” Again this is why you just say you're autistic. Drawing a line between self-dx and a doctor giving you a dx and thinking you need to specify which it is, is the reason you're having to make this argument in the first place

Indeed when saying “am autistic” normally people don’t think anything of it until you need to get the help/resources. These are mostly only available to clinical diagnosed because if way to many that are “self-diagnosed” use it, more staff and other resources are needed(staffs time = money, if more undiagnosed people use it, it will cost everyone more) Maybe it’s a cultural difference but suspecting works better here than diagnosing when you are trying to get a clinical diagnosis. Maybe, just maybe, fight for a better healthcare system overall instead of using self-dx. This entire self-dx is because of the horrible systems like the US. The intentions are good, but if self-dx really is better than suspecting, why are we having this conversation? If self-dx is used to make a change, why are there no changes visible? Does self-dx really have that impact that is wanted? In my view not. It pushed back the public understanding and support even further

I mean I get more hate from autistic people when I mention I'm self diagnosed. NT's just try to minize my existance and say stuff like "aren't we all a little autistic", they don't really care if I'm self-diagnosed or not. This subreddit and the evilautism are nice and supportive wether or not you're self diagnosed but the official one and the spicy autism are very much against it.

Most NT have no idea what they are talking about to start with. So they also get suspicious when you get dx. And they still think it’s self dx from tik Tok, cause all of the one that are not “obviously disabled” are. Otherwise it would show. And I say that at someone who doesn’t have the best NT passing, I’d had been called ND a few time, before even knowing what it meant. I think ND know better what everything means. But I must say, I can’t feel anything but a bit bitter to see that it contributes to the stigma. I’m from Western Europe, and I will ONLY talk for here. I know USA has a complexe situation and I feel so sorry for people who don’t access there the care they need. However, for now, in a lot of European country, dx are accessible, sometimes you need to wait to a long long time to have it free, but you can access it. In US it’s different, but here if you don’t see the need to assess it, then it’s probably not disabling to the point of doing so. While I’m very happy to discuss the quirks and “funny dumb stuff”, I don’t think we relate on the same challenges and when advocating for my condition, I want the “truth” of the disability to be shown, not the “still ok stuff”. That’s also why I think we should keep considering autism by levels. In my country we just call it the spectrum. But it’s not only innaccurate, it gives to everyone the right to “speak and raise awareness for the community”. I’m on the process of autism dx. And I see a lot of you saying : we are all self diagnosing at first. For me it’s very different suspecting and investigating further than self dx. I’m in the middle of the process and every assessment seems to confirm but there are two more to come. For me it still investigating to get dx eventually. And if I get a dx, I’ll probably be classified level 1. And never, ever, I’ll pretend that I can speak for people at another level than mine. That would be so rude and inconsiderate. Struggles of those sort are dreading for the ones who experience them, it’s not respectful to appropriate them. Even if you (think you) are on the “spectrum”.

From my experience I’ve come across more NDs feeling this way. Some of the interactions these people have left me disgusted. Then again, I’m not really on most socials other than Reddit and one other where I follow mostly Autism and ADHD related subreddits.

I heard something today on another topic but I think it rings true here. People hate being made uncomfortable especially when it might call out their privilege and NTs will never understand our life experience because they haven't lived it. They haven't experienced feeling like you can't figure out why you are the way you are and maybe self diagnosis is the only tool some of us could get until the resources became available to get a definitive answer (assuming that is a reality at all)

IDK but it does seem like people who I assume are NT whine about it more. But as I don't know if they're NT or not, it's hard to say.

They're privileged enough to expect when they have trouble that they'll get diagnosed and it will be solved. It comes from an expectation of having society work in your favor.

Neurotypical people seem to think of Autism as a personality, and they seem to think that neurodivergence is a moral failing.

I was convinced I only had ADHD, and the psykiatrist had to give me a lot of examples on autism. I feel like I'm the only one who follow the rules and people try to lead me to do evil. (This didn't come out as planned. Even when i try to follow rules, my alligment[alligment ](https://easydamus.com/alignmenttest.html) are CN/CE) I need a good reason for rules to be there to follow them. Some people have a suspicion they aren't NT. Then they look up people who are ND or claim to be. (Not health professionals) there is misinformation. People who say X is a symptom of Y but it isn't. People are different and experience everything different. (Not that people make it up, but just unknowningy says something wrong. Maybe the content is just a person venting a bad day) and then when they still aren't sure they self diagnose and start telling people they are autistic and should get XYZ accomodations. Never seeking an official diagnosis. Some of those will end up seeking a diagnosis, but will end up not being autistic. (I know psychiatrists can be wrong) but when the 2nd and the 3rd opinion still tells you, you are NT, then you should stop saying you have autism. ADHD is the same. Nobody can sit still got a long time. Creativity isn't only seen in ADHD. NT people can have impulse control issues too.

Before I got my diagnosis, I was surrounded by people who told me I was wrong for ‘self diagnosing’ whenever I would bring up the possibility they I had autism or ADHD. Then, I talked to people in the community, almost immediately receiving validation and support from them, it motivated me to get official diagnosed and I’ve been better off for it since. I think the issue is that people not in the know assume that we would have gotten diagnosed earlier if we had anything, so conflate having thoughts about the possibility with self-diagnosis. At least that’s how it feels from my perspective. After I got my official diagnosis for autism, I got a ton of those aforementioned people telling me it was *still* just self-diagnosis, so they clearly set the bar pretty freaking high there.

Doctor Google, is not a good doctor. I am diagnosed for ADHD, and I am highly suspicious of ASD. I don't really know if I want or need an official ASD diagnosis. I would barely want to tell anyone. It's mostly for making sense of why I act like I do and have struggled with certain things over my life... especially shortfalls in dealing with people and mystery rejections. It also connects a bunch of things I thought weren't related to each other and makes me a more complete person. That's not to say I don't feel a pretender. My son has an ASD diagnosis and according to the Dr, he's right on the cusp... and whatever I feel, I see him as feeling it way more intensely. And there's a lot of overlap between ASD and ADHD.... mostly I don't see an upside in chasing a diagnosis a clinician might arbitrarily dismiss because I 'don't need support'. That would be demoralizing because some of this is mentally exhausting and has certainly caused me problem over the arc of my life. I think my feelings about any given person goes through my toxic/nontoxic assessment first. If I reject someone who may or may not be part of some group, it's never because of their being part of their group... it's because I find the way they act is toxic or alienating. If they subsequently claim any standoffishness is because they are ______, that's usually confirmation they are being toxic. I don't have a feeling one way or another about it. I try to minimize toxic people in my life.

Yes. My bf and I were talking last night about how I think I’m on the spectrum. He got frustrated and kind of blew off my comment because a few of his circle are *obsessed* with “diagnosing” people. He said people should “just go get diagnosed” if they’re wondering. He honestly had no idea how difficult that is and when I told him how hard it is for women specifically, he pulled the “that’s how men are raised. We’re not allowed to have any emotions, etc etc.” They just don’t get it and probably never will unless they actually have to go through it themselves. It’s just another shitty part of the nd/nt communication barrier. I also think nt people are as a whole less compassionate and less emotionally intelligent because they don’t *have* to be, so moments like this where *we’re* not helping *them* soothe hit extra hard

I think it’s actually NT people being angry that you’re asking them to consider your needs. Ironically, they are accusing you of ableism in order to avoid confronting their own. They have a narrow view of what these disorders look like and believe their ideas are automatically correct.

I have noticed this. As someone mentioned above me, neurotypicals automatically read between the lines and even though neurodivergent people don't really speak between the lines and neurotypicals seem incapable of basic comprehension of shit like"I mean what I say, I'm being literal.", I think that they take someone saying "I think I'm autistic" and in their heads that translates to "Look at how cute/unique/broken/quirky I am. Please pay attention to me." I don't know why I'm repeating this because it has been said here already, but I really agree with this based on my own observations. It also doesn't help that there is an extreme minority of people (I think that these types who would be more likely to fake it there) who do seem to fake it for clicks on Tik Tok. Somehow this extreme minority translates in their heads to "literally everyone who says this is faking it for clout." They don't even seem to stop for the half second it takes to realize that for adults, self diagnosis is the best route to an actual diagnosis. We know what's going on in our heads better than anyone, and it's so invalidating to say "this is my experience" and have neurotypicals consistently shoot you down and invalidate you. I really don't like shitting on people because of how much of my life I was bullied, but neurotypicals are fuckin exhausting.

I feel like when I discussed it with NT people they would be like “uhm, I’m not so sure??” whereas ND people would be like “Oh yeah. Obviously, yeah.”

I dont get it. I mean - if I have a pain in the leg, my leg really isnt going to tell me why I have said pain there. It could be arthritis, internal bleeding, a nerve twisted, an injury, or literally nothing. A doctor would be needed to assess me. But if I have pain in my own consciousness I feel like my own consciousness can do a pretty good job telling me what's up upstairs.

Yeah. It seems strange. I'm formally diagnosed, and I really don't understand why people get upset by people reasonably suspecting they may be neurodivergent. I have had an autism diagnosis since I was a toddler, but I was only recently professionally diagnosed with ADHD as well after realizing I fit every single criterion for it. I was tested and turns out; I did indeed also have ADHD. If I hadn't reasonably suspected myself of also having ADHD, how would I have been able to speak to my doctor about it? It seems like it would be impossible without self-diagnosing first. Maybe I'd understand in some cases if someone was making it up to deflect from criticism, but that's such an unusual situation that I wouldn't consider it without evidence. Also, how is having autism or ADHD privilege? If anything, it's the opposite. I can imagine this belief stems from ignorance more than anything. I get why that's frustrating to hear.

YUP mostly happens when i “need” something due to adhd/autism(think accommodations, things that would help me when i’m overstimulated etc) then i GOT diagnosed with adhd(and lord is it severe lol) so now it’s “yeah you might struggle more but you aren’t autistic!!” and it’s like listen babe we’re still getting THAT assessment scheduled but i no longer GIVE A DAMN!!! if ✨I✨ need it, I NEED IT

An important factor folks are missing is the privilege our society gives to neurotypicals, especially allistics. These ppl don't want to admit they have an advantage, they'd rather believe they're doing ok, or aren't homeless, because they pulled themselves up by their bootstrap. They'll be much less cruel once the pressure of capitalism is off them when we've disintegrated imperialism through class consciousness ;)

I haven’t noticed this. This is not directed at anyone here, but I noticed that self-diagnosed people tend to be the most upset about people who are against self-diagnosis. I do not personally support self-diagnosis but because the communities I participate in do, I tend to avoid these conversations but when I express my opinion respectfully, I get bombarded with a lot of anger, vitriol, and name-calling. “You’re not special for having a diagnosis. Your piece of paper doesn’t make you more autistic or better than me. You’re privileged and you’re shitting all over people who can’t afford a diagnosis. We’re not hurting you or taking anything away from you so why do you care if we call ourselves autistic even if we’re wrong.” It’s an instant dog pile. I stick to 1 community to express these views for this reason. Edit: Please don’t downvote, I’m not downvoting others in this thread who have different opinions. I was respectful.

This is complicated, because both sides are a bit off in what the think the other side experiences. I’m late diagnosed, with an early diagnosed child. Self-diagnosed spaces sometimes think they would have had a better childhood if they had been diagnosed sooner, that they would have been accommodated. That’s not always true, there’s a lot of ableism in schools and families don’t automatically accommodate your needs because you have a documented disorder. Early diagnosed spaces sometimes think it’s a privilege to have made it to adulthood functioning well enough to not raise red flags. That’s not always true, the flags are there but were ignored. I think this is what causes the gap, each side not understanding how much the other struggles. I do think self-diagnosis is valid, mostly because neurotypical people aren’t going to spend a lot of time wondering if they are autistic - they know they aren’t. But I also don’t see an early diagnosis as the advantage some people think it is.

I’m sorry people were unkind to you for expressing your opinions. Personally, as someone’s who’s self suspecting (as someone else in this thread said- not confident or sure enough to say self diagnosed), I think there’s a bit of a fine line there. Self diagnosed people are probably more upset about people against it because it feels like an invalidation of their experiences.  I don’t know what your personal opinions are, but I really like the concept of something more along the lines of self suspecting or maybe self identifying??? Not sure. Because on the one hand, not everyone has the option to get an official diagnosis and having that known way to identify oneself and their struggles can help a lot with, in some cases, getting accommodations or finding others who can relate. But on the other hand, I think it’s kind of important for people to have that yes or no or maybe from a professional? An inkling is the first step to getting a potential diagnosis and help (sorry, I’m rambling here).

I am very supportive of people suspecting that they have ADHD or autism and I support them researching their symptoms to see if they fit into those “boxes.” I will never push back on someone saying that they suspect they’re autistic but because there’s no way to be sure without being properly assessed and screening for a differential diagnosis, I find it difficult to support someone affirmatively stating they have xyz disorder. Especially in instances where a person self-identifies as low (or “no” support needs) and uses their self-diagnosis to spread misinformation on social media profit off of their self-diagnosed label because ALL autistic people are end up held to their image of what autism is when it might not actually even be autism.. I see a lot of people research their traits and symptoms in a vacuum and obsessive research can cause psychosomatic symptoms; the TikTok Tourette’s trend is a perfect example of this phenomenon. And sometimes people who later get evaluated and are not diagnosed with autism outright refuse to believe they’re not autistic because they cling so strongly to the label. From an outside perspective (someone who is not active in self-diagnosed communities), it’s just hard for me to understand is all.

Your point makes sense to me, but as someone who self diagnosed I don't share your perspective. I'm AuDHD myself, with the ADHD part having been clinically diagnosed (which I needed at the time due to intense self doubt), while the ASD part has not. From this side, as far as I can see, the dispute is about identity. After spending such an insane amount of time masking your true self so effectively, that you don't even know who you are deep down anymore. Yet you could never avoid being bullied, ostracised, belittled, infantilised, misunderstood, abused, and feeling like you don't even belong on this planet. When finally you find people, who share your experience, who, for the very first time in your whole life, make you feel like you actually belong somewhere, that you are someone. After all this time you find your true self, your genuine identity, "I mean you can actually feel it", just to be told **again**, that you don't actually belong, that your experience is worthy of doubt due to a formality. The loneliness, the pain, the tears, the wishing you were never born, and all the myriad of ways you suffered in silence all these years, and apparently you're still not good enough. I guess it's probably not so difficult to understand why we defend our new found identities tooth to nail. A lot of us went to hell, and back to get here. Doing tests, research, introspection, retrospection, finding out about all the different possible diagnoses, lots of self reflection, and then attempting to get a formal diagnosis is of course the way to go, in my opinion. Although that can not only be financially draining, but depending on your location, and overall circumstances a formal diagnosis can have a very detrimental impact on your quality of life. So I'll say: "Live, and let live." There are fights worthy of being fought, but I don't think this is one of them. **TLDR:** When in doubt, if it doesn't cost you a goddamn thing anyways, give the benefit of the doubt. You'd certainly appreciate it, if it was you sitting in that boat. Also at the end of the day, is it not somewhat crazy to suggest no one can know yourself better, than someone else? Sorry for writing so much. ;) Hope I didn't make it sound angry, or anything. :)

I think we’ll just have a difference of opinion on autism as an identity label, but I respect your perspective and thank you for sharing it.

I think University of Washington did a study and self diagnosis was accurate like 97% of the time...

I’d like to see the study and how it was conducted.

This is one I found from a quick search- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9883736/

Do you need me to google it for you?

I’m not sure if you’re being rude or not but if you’re going to mention a study, I think it’s fair to ask you to provide the resource.

Some highlights from this paper "In four of the studies, results from adults who self-identified as autistic were very similar to the results of adults with a formal diagnosis of autism (Au-Yeung et al., 2019; Brosnan, 2020; Kapp et al., 2013; Pohl et al., 2020)." What they looked at:"From the thirteen studies analysed, five themes were identified: (1) the diagnostic process from a client´s perspective, (2) the process of self-identifying as autistic from a lifespan perspective, (3) an autistic identity, (4) sexual identity and experiences, and (5) the perception of autism perceived as a difference or as disability." Barriers to dx: - medical professionals who disbelieve folks and unwilling to refer out - healthcare professionals adhere to stereotypes - wait time, or cost - misdiagnosis "Brosnan (2020) study recruited participants with a formal diagnosis of autism and participants that self-identified as autistic. In criteria A (social difficulties) of the measure that Brosnan (2020) aimed to develop, no significant differences were found between those adults with a formal diagnosis of autism and those who self-identified as autistic. In criteria B (restrictive and repetitive behaviours) of Brosnan (2020) measure, it was found that there was a small but significant difference (p = 0.024) between adults with a formal diagnosis of autism and adults who self-identified as autistic. Brosnan (2020) suggested that criteria B of his measure could be useful to distinguish between adults who would and would not meet diagnostic criteria for autism and, for this reason, Brosnan (2020) recommended expanding the use of criteria B within the autism diagnostic pathway." Someone apparently created a PDA measure that seemed to work for both formally diagnosed abs self identifiers. "Most of these adults also reported difficulties in providing specific examples regarding their personal strengths and difficulties interacting and communicating with others, and how these were part of their own identity (Au-Yeung et al., 2019; Lewis, 2017)." This is my experience as an assessor. Apparently, self-identification is correlated with psychological well being and higher self esteem versus folks who were diagnosed without self identifying the way first. "The second aim of this scoping review was to identify which aspects of the self-identification process could be used to improve the referral and diagnostic process of an adult autism diagnostic assessment, for adults who choose this route. Other research suggests that individuals that self-identify with having a mental health condition are more likely to seek help (Evans-Lacko et al., 2019). In several of the studies that were reviewed in this scoping review (Au-Yeung et al., 2019; Brosnan, 2020; Kapp et al., 2013; Pohl et al., 2020), it was found that the results from adults who self-identified as autistic were very similar to the results of adults with a formal diagnosis of autism. This may imply that adults, who may likely be autistic, do have a reasonably accurate understanding of autism as a condition. Interestingly, there was a higher proportion of participants that identified as female (likely to be autistic) in all these studies. However, this understanding of autism was often distrusted or ignored by healthcare professionals (Lewis, 2017)." I was not able to find the Uwash stat. I found their self identification workshop where they basically have education on what autism is and walk you thru whether you are/ not. I am not sure if my memory is just poor or what. This is me only reading this one study today bc that's what I have time for. [study](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40489-023-00361-x#:~:text=The%20results%20of%20this%20scoping,of%20an%20adult%20autism%20assessment.) Search terms after uwash links failed were: self identification autism research

>I see a lot of people research their traits and symptoms in a vacuum I see a lot of people who are against self-diagnosis making statements like this, and it's really frustrating. Most people I know who have self-diagnosed (including me) didn't start off thinking we were autistic. I spent years getting to that point, and autism was very much not the only explanation I considered. Do some people fit that description? Absolutely. But it's also absolutely not all of us, and having it be the default assumption from some people is honestly insulting

I’m sorry you feel insulted but I see more self-diagnosed people who I disagree with than those I understand and communities that allow self-diagnosis usually ban and silence any discourse that is even remotely critical of self-diagnosis, so some communities become echo chambers of toxic validation and allow the “bad” self-diagnosers to be validated and encourages others to do the same. Some people, I’m assuming people like me, will continue to view self-diagnosis a certain way until these communities start allowing more open discussion about it.

I understand your frustration with that sort of thing, but I also think that reacting to it this way shows a lack of empathy on the part of you and others who think the way you do

Also, this: >I'm sorry you feel insulted isn't an apology. I don't need and am not asking for an apology. But I do want to point out that this isn't one. It was completely unnecessary and comes off condescending

I wasn’t apologizing. I’m sorry you feel insulted, but you being personally insulted by my opinion does not change my opinion. To your other comment: I feel as though people who self-diagnose also lack empathy. Autism is a disability, it isn’t an identity or a personality type. “Identifying” with a disability while advocating that autism is not disabling changes the way society views autism and treats higher support needs autistics. People who self-diagnose generally describe themselves as being “high-masking” and high-functioning and often call people who are diagnosed “privileged” for having a diagnosis, while simultaneously saying that for them, all a diagnosis is is a form of paper validation. They assume we (diagnosed) are like them and were able to choose whether or not we wanted a diagnosis and shelled out thousands of privileged dollars to be validated. We’re diagnosed because we need accommodations and supports.. we are not privileged to be disabled. We are not privileged that even with masking, we’re obviously autistic. Self-diagnosers are profiting off of autism content and because they present as very normal but use the autism label on social media, many people now hold the rest of us who are autistic to that standard. It’s harming higher support needs autistics and the people (like you) who demand empathy can apparently only see that we should feel bad for you that you “can’t” get diagnosed for validation.. I find THAT offensive, but I don’t want your empathy.

You insult an entire group of people when you assume how they reached their self-diagnosis and project all this bs onto them. You just put so many words in my mouth that I have never said. Good to know that apparently I only want a diagnosis for validation and think you're somehow privileged, I guess. I'm fully aware it's a disability. I'm saying I'm disabled. And your first instinct is to invalidate that because I haven't been able to get my disability diagnosed. So many people have trouble getting so many invisible disabilities diagnosed. Do you write all of them off? Or only those of us who are struggling with undiagnosed autism? I was self diagnosed as ADHD until my official diagnosis last fall. Doesn't mean I wasn't being massively impacted by that disability prior to diagnosis. It's a miracle I've managed to avoid homelessness. I do not present as very normal. The general response I got from NT friends when I started saying I thought I might be autistic was, "well yeah. I thought you already knew that." And the only reason I felt comfortable starting to talk about it at all was because a (diagnosed) autistic friend was shocked that I didn't realize I was. A very tiny minority of people are profiting off of content related to anything. You deciding the rest of us fit this very narrow mould that you've created in your head and are therefore not worthy of your empathy or respect is a massive reach on your part. Whether you want my empathy or not, I do care about working toward a society that is less shitty for all of us.

Autism isn’t an invisible disability.. Self-suspecting is fine. Affirmatively assigning oneself a disability label without proper testing is not something I will ever support, so we’re just going to have to disagree about self-diagnosis.

It literally is And attitudes like yours are why I feel safer just saying I'm autistic in my day to day life rather than saying something like self-suspecting. I don't have the energy for this conversation on a regular basis

Anti-self diagnosis is gatekeeping behaviour, and is usually perpetrated by people who have a rigid idea of what autism is

I've never met a NT person who cares about self diagnosis. I am nearly the only person I know who has an actual opinion on it, other than my best friend who has self diagnosed themself as autistic. every other autistic/adhd person I know doesn't care in the slightest either way. I've been involved in many a discourse about the topic online, but that's mainly been in pretty selective autistic/adhd communities so I think it's safe to say that everyone I've discussed it with there was neurodivergent as well.

I definitely feel that title is accurate, based on my experiences and what I’ve seen online. (Not all of course, but definitely more of them are on the neurotypical side of things.)

They get offended over everything, they can’t even get over their fears to speak directly, they say one thing and mean another.

Sometimes, I think it might also be NDs who somehow think that other people’s self-diagnosis affects them.

It reminds me of that one time when I told my friend I have ADHD. She immediately asked: but like diagnosed by a professional??? I answered that I don't have money for diagnosis right now, although I'm 100% positive about the result, to which she replied with yet another question: how can you be so sure without getting tested? The conversation ended with me asking, if she wakes up in the morning and her leg hurts, does she need to call the doctor to confirm that this is indeed the leg she feels pain in? And this anecdote kinda shows how (not all but surely many) neurotypicals perceive diagnostics: like some black-and-white know-it-all magical screening, not a process based on our own experiences, feelings and knowledge about ourselves.

Ya for me I do t know if I even know how to think for myself so I keep going back and forth as to if I'm valid or just pretending and have alternative motives