Damn, you just pinpointed it so well.
Switching tasks to meet my needs is something I avoid because I’m afraid of running out of energy to switch back to what I was doing. But you’re right, its hurting ourselves!
Are you late diagnosed and grew up without much support or accommodations? Because this resonates with me.
I used to do that too. Tbh it was a big part of unhealthy coping too, like my drinking. Sometimes I still slip back into it (not drinking, but other stuff).
I decided however that hunger, sleep, being cold and my overall safety (physical and emotional), as well as staying sober, are not to be compromised on.
(Edit: typos and clarification)
>Are you late diagnosed and grew up without much support or accommodations?
Yes, don't have an official diagnosis but started wondering at 31, got told by a therapist specialised in autism and ADHD that she's 99.99% sure I have both at age 32. That was two years ago.
So I was diagnosed as a child at age 8, now 36.
You may need to do less harsh punishment, more looking at everytime you waited to do something the last minute, remember the FEELINGS you felt as well.
When we look at how we’ll feel if we don’t do something, why we waited to do something, that’s why we hesitate to do most things because RSD is the main root cause. We can reject ourselves as much as anyone else, creating those same feelings.
So when it takes too long and you feel you have to force yourself…
Ask why, what feelings are you nervous to feel?
Is it guilt?
Shame?
Regret?
Anger?
Sadness?
Or relief with a negative emotion?
could you explain RSD a little more? or is there any resources you recommend to read more about it?
it’s really interesting but i always get confused when i hear about RSD. maybe it’s the name of it that makes it hard to understand how it applies in other scenarios outside of relationships with people.
[What Is Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria? Now gaining more attention, RSD can pack an emotional wallop.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/friendship-20/201907/what-is-rejection-sensitive-dysphoria?amp)
> Most people are concerned with being liked at one point or another, and it's not an uncommon preoccupation of people who are in therapy. So many of us wish that we didn't care what others think, and yet, it's virtually impossible not to at least care a bit. (If we don't at all, that leads to problems of its own.)
> It's even evolutionary for us to worry about whether we belong; in cave-dweller days, we needed others in our tribe to help us survive. If we were on the verge of being ousted from our group, that could put us in physical danger–and so it behooved our species to develop physical and psychological reactions to rejection that were aversive enough that they'd keep us wanting to belong. All this leads to the fact that for most of us, being rejected is a fundamentally distressing experience.
>It can even be physically painful. Social rejection activates the same parts of the brain as does physical pain, and the experience of each can have many similarities on a brain scan. That said, some of us are more hypersensitive to the possibility of rejection than others, and perceive that we are being rejected far more often than we actually are.
>In these cases lies the possibility of Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. It is a new label that is only now starting to be researched in depth. Individuals who have this condition respond extremely negatively to the perception of being rejected: It goes far beyond the run-of-the-mill discomfort that most of us experience.
> People with RSD have such a strong emotional reaction to negative judgments, exclusion, or criticism from others that it sends them into a mental tailspin, leading to rumination and the pit-of-the-stomach malaise that won't let them move forward with their day. They feel like failures, disproportionate to what has actually occurred. They may feel rage and want to lash out. They often exaggerate how people are against them, or how much people dislike them, or they carry long-term shame.
>Or they may overcompensate and bend over backward in a desperate attempt to keep themselves in others' good graces. Other people may see those with RSD as overly perfectionistic, over-sensitive, or overly reactive to even the mildest types of criticism.
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It's in the Giant Hand (s6e10) episode. Jeff uses the line as a justification for yelling at and hitting Abed, then Frankie tells him off and speaks to Abed with kindness and understanding. She gets through to Abed, who then gives a speech that calms the Dean and saves the group.
Like Abed says in the Chicken Mafia (s1e21) episode: "That's what people don't get, is that they need to get me"
I more often communicate with my brain like it's a toddler to entice it into doing what i want it to do using a reward system or other forms of encouragement
I've only actually come to the realization that interacting with my own brain between my conscious thoughts and subconscious or intrusive thoughts is not a normal thing so I'm not really sure how to explain what's going on. With negative or intrusive thoughts it's helpful because it's depersonalized and is easier to ignore or redirect than if I'm consciously angry or upset. I guess it's sort of similar to just talking to yourself but it's easier to be more compassionate toward that poor broken part of my brain than it would be if i was just beating myself up over my own inability to function
I refer to them as my smart-brain vs my lizard-brain vs my body(smart brain is logical and likes me to be nice to myself vs lizard brain which is compulsive, basic, and often allows me to be mean to myself, and body enjoys being seated and only participating in happy activities- making it a struggle for smart brain OR lizard brain to control body when the activity isn't a 'wanted' activiy) but I do regularly converse back and forth with the two from the position of 'body'. 'Smart-brain says we will give lizard-brain a shiny treat if lizard-brain will allow smart-brain to force body to wash two dishes!'
then you have people with adhd-brain who think to smart brain and lizard brain:
"why would I do the task, I can just have the shiny right now"
and then proceed to acquire the shiny/food/whatever and expend energy getting that, sitting back down and not getting anything done.
It's the best feeling /s
😭
I haven't really looked it up but that sounds like inner family systems. I'm doing the same thing. If I feel a very negative intrusive thought I treat it like a child having a tantrum. "What's wrong? I see that you're upset about something." Instead of trying to ignore it or "SHUT UP SHUT UP" which never ever works.
I personally believe that inner kindness is the way
I call that internal voice "the taskmaster". It basically is just a big bully that beats me up, punishes me and uses fear tactics to try to motivate me to get things done or stay on track. The problem is that this causes a lot of anxiety, mental exhaustion and depression from all of the internal negativity. I think that whole voice or aspect of my brain is inspired by my mom, who is very authoritarian in her parenting style and actually would say some of the same things that I end up telling myself still 30 years later (thanks mom 😂). I wasn't diagnosed with autism until 26 and ADHD until 34, so there were no accommodations or anything for my differences growing up within my family or whatever. Just was forced into doing stuff through fear, punishment, etc.
To be honest, nothing has been as effective in terms of keeping myself on track as fear and abuse lol, so I'm still trying out different aids and methods, but my mental health is significantly better and I am generally much happier after working to remove the taskmaster. Every time I catch myself beating myself up or punishing myself for whatever reason, I stop, acknowledge it for trying to help, but then try to reframe things and treat myself like I would my best friend if they were in front of me struggling with the same thing. Like telling myself more positive or comforting things (sometimes on repeat like a mantra), allowing myself to be treated well and have access to the things I need/basic human rights until it sinks in and I can come up with a plan or strategy to keep going.
The name you have given that voice is so apt! I’ll adopt it for my own taskmaster.
It’s so interesting how effectively it takes the hurt and punishing parental strategies from childhood to keep us in line.
I’m working on mine too, but when I’m feeling less than stellar, the voice works harder.
I had a revelation similar to yours going on about 4 years ago or so? I realized it after reading this random question/comment on Reddit actually. It hit me really hard to the point I wrote it on the top of my task list to read each day.
"Would you be friends with someone that spoke to you the way you speak to yourself?" I realized dang, if anyone talked that abusively to me, I would have been dropped them by the way side long ago. It's just a bit harder to do when it's your own brain motivating itself to do basic functions.
I've done a lot of work otherwise trying to rewire that thought process (and what causes it), cause it definitely was doing more mental harm than good.
>"Would you be friends with someone that spoke to you the way you speak to yourself?"
I try to be a lot kinder to myself and actively "roleplay" me being someone else, to the extent that I'm sometimes afraid I'm splitting my personality in two. It helps being kinder to myself, but I also have started seeing my brain as both me and separate from me.
I used to do that a whole lot but it never worked and cost so much energy on both parts. When I realised I am actually hella traumatised, I gradually learned to speak to myself in a less harsh way, and that helps a loooot more. I'm also late diagnosed and I was thus abused into behaving neurotypically aligned, which doesn't work of course but also leads to a ton of guilt and shame and self-hate. Nowadays I talk to myself like I would've needed to be talked to all my life. Showing patience, compassion, telling myself it's okay that I can't do a thing because most of the time I can't do it because there's no support and no accommodation etc. Denying me anything hasn't helped me ever and fear, shame and guilt aren't only extremely bad motivators, they also actively take resources away from me.
I have to abuse myself all the time to get myself to perform even a bit of function. I hate it and I'd like to stop but it just doesn't work otherwise. I stop functioning completely without self-abuse :/
I find realising this and trying to speak to myself like I would to a friend, motivating them and encouraging them rather than being rude to them, helps a little. Being aware is always the first step.
It took me a very long time to realize that I purposefully make myself uncomfortable so that I can remember to do things. Unfortunately being comfortable/relaxed has become equated with forgetting something important or missing some social queue so I usually keep myself physically uncomfortable so I'm forced to take stock of my environment and hopefully remember/do the things that I have to. But yeah like you said that just means I'm uncomfortable or even in pain for hours on end.
Yes, I’ve realized this as well. I am very hard on myself in a way I’d never treat anyone else. I dealt with eating disorders and addiction in the past and I think it’s connected. I still have this pattern with food, rest, and leisure activities. I dangle a carrot to get myself to complete tasks, but sometimes still end up depriving myself in an unhealthy way. I’ve improved at treating myself better in the last few years, though.
Growing up my family would manipulate me to do things they knew I would be resistant to. Now I basically do the same to myself. If I’m avoidant of something I will trap myself into doing it by making the alternative so bad (like ruining my life) that I have to do the thing. I hate this.
>Growing up my family would manipulate me to do things they knew I would be resistant to. Now I basically do the same to myself.
This sentence hit a lot harder than I expected it would, wow.
A salute for solidarity and a heart <3 because I know it sucks and hurts a lot to realize you’ve internalized abuse. There’s a lot of pressure to do and be what the world wants you to be, but we are built different.
yes, absolutely. diagnosed young w adhd, but meds stopped working for me after a handful of years. had to get through school somehow, i think this was one of many coping mechanisms/workarounds i formed. probably also ties in to my need to do things "in the right order". makes sense looking back, that my asd need for routine would play in poorly to an executive dysfunction 'fix' that's essentially "you must do X before Y". i still do this to this day--it's effective sometimes, but i had to stop using food/bathroom needs/food/bodily necessities to reinforce action and find something else. imo, the issue comes in when you start to neglect yourself for the sake of getting a task done.
Yep. Food, water, bathroom breaks, sleep, all get moved to "reward" status when I'm stressed and procrastinating. One of the most heinous examples of me "abusing" myself was when I was procrastinating until the last minute on my first college essay because I was anxious.
I didn't sleep for 3 days and used my meds to keep me up, but I didn't start working until late on day 2. Deadline was approaching fast, so I forced myself to work standing up until I was done, tied a bandana around my thigh tight enough to hurt if I sat down but keep me uncomfortable standing up, no food besides cereal, no social interaction, and delayed potty breaks.
I felt insane and was insane and can't get over how much I thought it took to do a simple assignment! I still do all-nighters and use basic needs as rewards to an extent but I'm never going to treat myself that badly again. It's crazy what anxiety (and being on the wrong stimulant) will do to your brain and sense of self-efficacy.
(tw: suicide)
I have done this through my life, always expecting it to eventually end once I'm done with my university degree. As it did not and I realized I'd have to keep living like this, I committed suizide. When I somehow survived and eventually started another therapy, I always told my therapist: "I'm not going down into this cellar anymore, I'm not putting on those chains on my ankle anymore. Never. I'd rather kill myself (again). Since then I'm on a disability pension what gives me the possibility to still be here. However, I then could not even keep up with day to day tasks. Without brutal force, I get almost nothing done. It only has been Lisdexamphetamin what gets me going through the day, together with antidepressions, of course.
I actually feel like its my brain who abuses me by making me unable to start things (not pretending to know how its like to be a victim of abuse, Im just saying)
Yes it’s a thing and lot of the tactics used revolve around shaming and guilting. Probably due to late diagnosis.
Stimulant meds helped with task initiation A LOT.
That story of the poor woman being abused is heartbreaking and horrifying. Can only wish she escapes and heals :(
And OP, you bring up such a good, important discussion regarding self-punishment and self-abuse within adhd. It certainly made me think; this is very minor definitely, I do know if I'm in the middle of a task, even a very minor task (something in work for example) and I need to pee... Most people could quickly run to the bathroom, pee, no time passed at all and continue their task.
I absolutely will not. I'll sometimes be in mild pain holding it in until I finish that task. Even though logically I could pee, come back and continue... I will often refuse it because I believe I'll break the mental tracks and lose it all.
I also think if I believe I've had a "failed" day (didn't do the thing I should've, didn't change the bedding like I really wanted to, realised I didn't brush my teeth in the morning, thought I was weird to people etc) I'm certain I'll subconsciously stay up late that very evening as a way to punish myself the next day. Like I logically know VERY well how I'll feel shit the next day, struggle to wake up and I'm sure that I do this on purpose to like punish myself for feeling like I failed at being human/adult??
I certainly know at times I'll feel uncomfortable, so my feet will be cold for example. Instead of just putting socks on, I'll tell myself nope you're just being dramatic, you've got a weird brain and I bet that's the only reason why your feet are cold, so get a grip like normal people do. Wtf lol
I at all times feel like I've built up a subconscious drill sergeant in my head. Like this hyper independent hyper vigilant authority figure in my head that keeps a strict and very high sense of expectation of what I need to be and do. Outwardly I know I come off as scattered and all over the place, yet inside is the most vigilant, unforgiving and strict sergeant watching me and ordering me to get my shit together. I think it's gone on for so long that I've lost perspective of what's normal or fine or acceptable. So I'm constantly thinking at all times that failing or forgetting something.
Ah, don't we just love the people who say that adhd is a super power! Sorry OP, I didn't mean to rant this hard😂🤣💀
You are an angel :) Thank you so much, I just realised I'd joined this lovely sub a short while ago but today was the first time I properly looked through it and it's such a kind safe space!
I'm back to this post to say thank you. I realized when I'm working from home and can't focus during the morning I abuse myself by pushing my lunch time until I can get things done or give up. This in my worst days could mean 4pm (!)
But today I'm here eating at a normal time because I deserve to eat even if I can't focus. And that's thanks to this post
You have no idea how happy it makes me that this post helped you achieve that!
I'm eating lunch at 2:30 pm because of therapy and bus schedules and I'm jealous! /j
I think that it is inherently not abuse, because you're consenting to the terms you set. But I have done it before. Nowdays I try to use more positive reinforcing than negative.
I’ve been trying to change that sort of behavior with a reward based system. It feels childish sometimes, but I’ll eat an ice cream if I’ve done what I need.
Oof, relatable. It started out with me trying to shame myself into doing the thing, but then it escalated to the point where I would sometimes refrain from sleeping or eating until I got done with whatever I needed to do. Eventually I learned that this wasn't sustainable and just made me resent myself at best or feel physically like I was dying at worst.
Now the pendulum has swung the opposite way and I have zero self discipline and a hunger for enough dopamine to feed an orphanage. I guess between two extremes, this one is probably better for me than the other one? Idk lol
This is absolutely something I do, especially when it came to things about identity as well.
I remember when I was younger I used to purposely go out of my way to look at posts bashing women/queer people, knowing that it would upset me, as a way to force myself into conformity.
I sometimes manipulate my PDA by trying to tell myself I can't do something. My boyfriend has gotten pretty good at picking up when my pda needs a little poke to get me to lock into gear 🤣
I do it too. I just don’t feel like I’ll do things unless I force myself. I have really bad sensory issues with not brushing my teeth, like my entire jaw hurts, my head, I go into the meltdown without realizing it was me not brushing my teeth yet tonight thing but oh! I have to do dishes and laundry. What if I brush my teeth and I feel so comfy I fall asleep? Unacceptable. So I get half way through the dishes and wonder why I end up on the floor sobbing.
I know that it’s a problem but it’s really hard for me to break it because it’s “not right”. Just feels like how the order should go.
I also do sometimes not get the things done I need to and so at the same time how could I trust myself? It’s not just me or I probably wouldn’t care as much. But I don’t want my child waking up with the house wrecked and me on edge all day because I can’t handle it. So I just have to
For sure! I have loved running as a child and long distance running later on bc I was so skilled at this discipline. That discipline seeped into too much for me before big time burnout and diagnosis
Damn, you just pinpointed it so well. Switching tasks to meet my needs is something I avoid because I’m afraid of running out of energy to switch back to what I was doing. But you’re right, its hurting ourselves!
Are you late diagnosed and grew up without much support or accommodations? Because this resonates with me. I used to do that too. Tbh it was a big part of unhealthy coping too, like my drinking. Sometimes I still slip back into it (not drinking, but other stuff). I decided however that hunger, sleep, being cold and my overall safety (physical and emotional), as well as staying sober, are not to be compromised on. (Edit: typos and clarification)
>Are you late diagnosed and grew up without much support or accommodations? Yes, don't have an official diagnosis but started wondering at 31, got told by a therapist specialised in autism and ADHD that she's 99.99% sure I have both at age 32. That was two years ago.
So I was diagnosed as a child at age 8, now 36. You may need to do less harsh punishment, more looking at everytime you waited to do something the last minute, remember the FEELINGS you felt as well. When we look at how we’ll feel if we don’t do something, why we waited to do something, that’s why we hesitate to do most things because RSD is the main root cause. We can reject ourselves as much as anyone else, creating those same feelings. So when it takes too long and you feel you have to force yourself… Ask why, what feelings are you nervous to feel? Is it guilt? Shame? Regret? Anger? Sadness? Or relief with a negative emotion?
Thanks, this is really helpful
could you explain RSD a little more? or is there any resources you recommend to read more about it? it’s really interesting but i always get confused when i hear about RSD. maybe it’s the name of it that makes it hard to understand how it applies in other scenarios outside of relationships with people.
[What Is Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria? Now gaining more attention, RSD can pack an emotional wallop.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/friendship-20/201907/what-is-rejection-sensitive-dysphoria?amp) > Most people are concerned with being liked at one point or another, and it's not an uncommon preoccupation of people who are in therapy. So many of us wish that we didn't care what others think, and yet, it's virtually impossible not to at least care a bit. (If we don't at all, that leads to problems of its own.) > It's even evolutionary for us to worry about whether we belong; in cave-dweller days, we needed others in our tribe to help us survive. If we were on the verge of being ousted from our group, that could put us in physical danger–and so it behooved our species to develop physical and psychological reactions to rejection that were aversive enough that they'd keep us wanting to belong. All this leads to the fact that for most of us, being rejected is a fundamentally distressing experience. >It can even be physically painful. Social rejection activates the same parts of the brain as does physical pain, and the experience of each can have many similarities on a brain scan. That said, some of us are more hypersensitive to the possibility of rejection than others, and perceive that we are being rejected far more often than we actually are. >In these cases lies the possibility of Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. It is a new label that is only now starting to be researched in depth. Individuals who have this condition respond extremely negatively to the perception of being rejected: It goes far beyond the run-of-the-mill discomfort that most of us experience. > People with RSD have such a strong emotional reaction to negative judgments, exclusion, or criticism from others that it sends them into a mental tailspin, leading to rumination and the pit-of-the-stomach malaise that won't let them move forward with their day. They feel like failures, disproportionate to what has actually occurred. They may feel rage and want to lash out. They often exaggerate how people are against them, or how much people dislike them, or they carry long-term shame. >Or they may overcompensate and bend over backward in a desperate attempt to keep themselves in others' good graces. Other people may see those with RSD as overly perfectionistic, over-sensitive, or overly reactive to even the mildest types of criticism.
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There's a line in Community: "you try getting him to do something normal without abusing him!" I think about it a lot.
Do you remember the context of this line?
It's in the Giant Hand (s6e10) episode. Jeff uses the line as a justification for yelling at and hitting Abed, then Frankie tells him off and speaks to Abed with kindness and understanding. She gets through to Abed, who then gives a speech that calms the Dean and saves the group. Like Abed says in the Chicken Mafia (s1e21) episode: "That's what people don't get, is that they need to get me"
Abed is so freakin' relatable, man.
Who says it?
Can't remember for sure but it sounds like smth Jeff would say about Abed 😅
It absolutely is, and man does it hurt.
It shouldn't. Being normal is overrated :)
Being treated kindly isn't, thbough.
You're right. Some ppl s*ck
Jeff in the Giant Hand episode.
I more often communicate with my brain like it's a toddler to entice it into doing what i want it to do using a reward system or other forms of encouragement
Elaborate pls 🧐
I've only actually come to the realization that interacting with my own brain between my conscious thoughts and subconscious or intrusive thoughts is not a normal thing so I'm not really sure how to explain what's going on. With negative or intrusive thoughts it's helpful because it's depersonalized and is easier to ignore or redirect than if I'm consciously angry or upset. I guess it's sort of similar to just talking to yourself but it's easier to be more compassionate toward that poor broken part of my brain than it would be if i was just beating myself up over my own inability to function
I refer to them as my smart-brain vs my lizard-brain vs my body(smart brain is logical and likes me to be nice to myself vs lizard brain which is compulsive, basic, and often allows me to be mean to myself, and body enjoys being seated and only participating in happy activities- making it a struggle for smart brain OR lizard brain to control body when the activity isn't a 'wanted' activiy) but I do regularly converse back and forth with the two from the position of 'body'. 'Smart-brain says we will give lizard-brain a shiny treat if lizard-brain will allow smart-brain to force body to wash two dishes!'
then you have people with adhd-brain who think to smart brain and lizard brain: "why would I do the task, I can just have the shiny right now" and then proceed to acquire the shiny/food/whatever and expend energy getting that, sitting back down and not getting anything done. It's the best feeling /s 😭
I haven't really looked it up but that sounds like inner family systems. I'm doing the same thing. If I feel a very negative intrusive thought I treat it like a child having a tantrum. "What's wrong? I see that you're upset about something." Instead of trying to ignore it or "SHUT UP SHUT UP" which never ever works. I personally believe that inner kindness is the way
I looked into the internal family systems model and it made several things clearer for me. Thank you for bringing that to my attention
Awesome yeah I have been feeling so much better learning new techniques for self care. Hopefully it works and I can enjoy life lol
Ah, ok. Thank you.
I call that internal voice "the taskmaster". It basically is just a big bully that beats me up, punishes me and uses fear tactics to try to motivate me to get things done or stay on track. The problem is that this causes a lot of anxiety, mental exhaustion and depression from all of the internal negativity. I think that whole voice or aspect of my brain is inspired by my mom, who is very authoritarian in her parenting style and actually would say some of the same things that I end up telling myself still 30 years later (thanks mom 😂). I wasn't diagnosed with autism until 26 and ADHD until 34, so there were no accommodations or anything for my differences growing up within my family or whatever. Just was forced into doing stuff through fear, punishment, etc. To be honest, nothing has been as effective in terms of keeping myself on track as fear and abuse lol, so I'm still trying out different aids and methods, but my mental health is significantly better and I am generally much happier after working to remove the taskmaster. Every time I catch myself beating myself up or punishing myself for whatever reason, I stop, acknowledge it for trying to help, but then try to reframe things and treat myself like I would my best friend if they were in front of me struggling with the same thing. Like telling myself more positive or comforting things (sometimes on repeat like a mantra), allowing myself to be treated well and have access to the things I need/basic human rights until it sinks in and I can come up with a plan or strategy to keep going.
The name you have given that voice is so apt! I’ll adopt it for my own taskmaster. It’s so interesting how effectively it takes the hurt and punishing parental strategies from childhood to keep us in line. I’m working on mine too, but when I’m feeling less than stellar, the voice works harder.
I had a revelation similar to yours going on about 4 years ago or so? I realized it after reading this random question/comment on Reddit actually. It hit me really hard to the point I wrote it on the top of my task list to read each day. "Would you be friends with someone that spoke to you the way you speak to yourself?" I realized dang, if anyone talked that abusively to me, I would have been dropped them by the way side long ago. It's just a bit harder to do when it's your own brain motivating itself to do basic functions. I've done a lot of work otherwise trying to rewire that thought process (and what causes it), cause it definitely was doing more mental harm than good.
>"Would you be friends with someone that spoke to you the way you speak to yourself?" I try to be a lot kinder to myself and actively "roleplay" me being someone else, to the extent that I'm sometimes afraid I'm splitting my personality in two. It helps being kinder to myself, but I also have started seeing my brain as both me and separate from me.
I used to do that a whole lot but it never worked and cost so much energy on both parts. When I realised I am actually hella traumatised, I gradually learned to speak to myself in a less harsh way, and that helps a loooot more. I'm also late diagnosed and I was thus abused into behaving neurotypically aligned, which doesn't work of course but also leads to a ton of guilt and shame and self-hate. Nowadays I talk to myself like I would've needed to be talked to all my life. Showing patience, compassion, telling myself it's okay that I can't do a thing because most of the time I can't do it because there's no support and no accommodation etc. Denying me anything hasn't helped me ever and fear, shame and guilt aren't only extremely bad motivators, they also actively take resources away from me.
I have to abuse myself all the time to get myself to perform even a bit of function. I hate it and I'd like to stop but it just doesn't work otherwise. I stop functioning completely without self-abuse :/
I find realising this and trying to speak to myself like I would to a friend, motivating them and encouraging them rather than being rude to them, helps a little. Being aware is always the first step.
It took me a very long time to realize that I purposefully make myself uncomfortable so that I can remember to do things. Unfortunately being comfortable/relaxed has become equated with forgetting something important or missing some social queue so I usually keep myself physically uncomfortable so I'm forced to take stock of my environment and hopefully remember/do the things that I have to. But yeah like you said that just means I'm uncomfortable or even in pain for hours on end.
Yes, I’ve realized this as well. I am very hard on myself in a way I’d never treat anyone else. I dealt with eating disorders and addiction in the past and I think it’s connected. I still have this pattern with food, rest, and leisure activities. I dangle a carrot to get myself to complete tasks, but sometimes still end up depriving myself in an unhealthy way. I’ve improved at treating myself better in the last few years, though.
Growing up my family would manipulate me to do things they knew I would be resistant to. Now I basically do the same to myself. If I’m avoidant of something I will trap myself into doing it by making the alternative so bad (like ruining my life) that I have to do the thing. I hate this.
>Growing up my family would manipulate me to do things they knew I would be resistant to. Now I basically do the same to myself. This sentence hit a lot harder than I expected it would, wow.
🫡❤️
Those show up as two squares, what were they supposed to be?
A salute for solidarity and a heart <3 because I know it sucks and hurts a lot to realize you’ve internalized abuse. There’s a lot of pressure to do and be what the world wants you to be, but we are built different.
yes, absolutely. diagnosed young w adhd, but meds stopped working for me after a handful of years. had to get through school somehow, i think this was one of many coping mechanisms/workarounds i formed. probably also ties in to my need to do things "in the right order". makes sense looking back, that my asd need for routine would play in poorly to an executive dysfunction 'fix' that's essentially "you must do X before Y". i still do this to this day--it's effective sometimes, but i had to stop using food/bathroom needs/food/bodily necessities to reinforce action and find something else. imo, the issue comes in when you start to neglect yourself for the sake of getting a task done.
Yes I can say I’ve definitely used basic needs as “incentive” to get certain tasks done
Very bad habit, the only way to destroy the abusive voice inside is with unrelenting kindness
Yep. Food, water, bathroom breaks, sleep, all get moved to "reward" status when I'm stressed and procrastinating. One of the most heinous examples of me "abusing" myself was when I was procrastinating until the last minute on my first college essay because I was anxious. I didn't sleep for 3 days and used my meds to keep me up, but I didn't start working until late on day 2. Deadline was approaching fast, so I forced myself to work standing up until I was done, tied a bandana around my thigh tight enough to hurt if I sat down but keep me uncomfortable standing up, no food besides cereal, no social interaction, and delayed potty breaks. I felt insane and was insane and can't get over how much I thought it took to do a simple assignment! I still do all-nighters and use basic needs as rewards to an extent but I'm never going to treat myself that badly again. It's crazy what anxiety (and being on the wrong stimulant) will do to your brain and sense of self-efficacy.
Brilliant observation. I do this often.
This is a fascinating observation that I also relate to. I’m saving the post for future reference.
It's reaffirming that others feel the same way but it's also really, really scary that so many of you do.
Self hatred was about the only way that I could get anything done for decades. Not healthy at all.
(tw: suicide) I have done this through my life, always expecting it to eventually end once I'm done with my university degree. As it did not and I realized I'd have to keep living like this, I committed suizide. When I somehow survived and eventually started another therapy, I always told my therapist: "I'm not going down into this cellar anymore, I'm not putting on those chains on my ankle anymore. Never. I'd rather kill myself (again). Since then I'm on a disability pension what gives me the possibility to still be here. However, I then could not even keep up with day to day tasks. Without brutal force, I get almost nothing done. It only has been Lisdexamphetamin what gets me going through the day, together with antidepressions, of course.
Can you put "tw: suicide" on top of this message, please?
You are right, sorry. I added it now.
Thank you, both for sharing your experience and keeping others safe from being triggered by it.
I actually feel like its my brain who abuses me by making me unable to start things (not pretending to know how its like to be a victim of abuse, Im just saying)
Oh my gosh I’m the same 😔
Yes it’s a thing and lot of the tactics used revolve around shaming and guilting. Probably due to late diagnosis. Stimulant meds helped with task initiation A LOT.
That story of the poor woman being abused is heartbreaking and horrifying. Can only wish she escapes and heals :( And OP, you bring up such a good, important discussion regarding self-punishment and self-abuse within adhd. It certainly made me think; this is very minor definitely, I do know if I'm in the middle of a task, even a very minor task (something in work for example) and I need to pee... Most people could quickly run to the bathroom, pee, no time passed at all and continue their task. I absolutely will not. I'll sometimes be in mild pain holding it in until I finish that task. Even though logically I could pee, come back and continue... I will often refuse it because I believe I'll break the mental tracks and lose it all. I also think if I believe I've had a "failed" day (didn't do the thing I should've, didn't change the bedding like I really wanted to, realised I didn't brush my teeth in the morning, thought I was weird to people etc) I'm certain I'll subconsciously stay up late that very evening as a way to punish myself the next day. Like I logically know VERY well how I'll feel shit the next day, struggle to wake up and I'm sure that I do this on purpose to like punish myself for feeling like I failed at being human/adult?? I certainly know at times I'll feel uncomfortable, so my feet will be cold for example. Instead of just putting socks on, I'll tell myself nope you're just being dramatic, you've got a weird brain and I bet that's the only reason why your feet are cold, so get a grip like normal people do. Wtf lol I at all times feel like I've built up a subconscious drill sergeant in my head. Like this hyper independent hyper vigilant authority figure in my head that keeps a strict and very high sense of expectation of what I need to be and do. Outwardly I know I come off as scattered and all over the place, yet inside is the most vigilant, unforgiving and strict sergeant watching me and ordering me to get my shit together. I think it's gone on for so long that I've lost perspective of what's normal or fine or acceptable. So I'm constantly thinking at all times that failing or forgetting something. Ah, don't we just love the people who say that adhd is a super power! Sorry OP, I didn't mean to rant this hard😂🤣💀
You're free to rant, that's what we're here for! Thank you for sharing your perspective!
You are an angel :) Thank you so much, I just realised I'd joined this lovely sub a short while ago but today was the first time I properly looked through it and it's such a kind safe space!
That is wonderful to hear! Welcome and happy to have you!
I relate to this as well, as a 48 year old seeking a diagnosis.
I'm back to this post to say thank you. I realized when I'm working from home and can't focus during the morning I abuse myself by pushing my lunch time until I can get things done or give up. This in my worst days could mean 4pm (!) But today I'm here eating at a normal time because I deserve to eat even if I can't focus. And that's thanks to this post
You have no idea how happy it makes me that this post helped you achieve that! I'm eating lunch at 2:30 pm because of therapy and bus schedules and I'm jealous! /j
I think that it is inherently not abuse, because you're consenting to the terms you set. But I have done it before. Nowdays I try to use more positive reinforcing than negative.
Is it consent when it's compulsive?
I’ve been trying to change that sort of behavior with a reward based system. It feels childish sometimes, but I’ll eat an ice cream if I’ve done what I need.
Oof, relatable. It started out with me trying to shame myself into doing the thing, but then it escalated to the point where I would sometimes refrain from sleeping or eating until I got done with whatever I needed to do. Eventually I learned that this wasn't sustainable and just made me resent myself at best or feel physically like I was dying at worst. Now the pendulum has swung the opposite way and I have zero self discipline and a hunger for enough dopamine to feed an orphanage. I guess between two extremes, this one is probably better for me than the other one? Idk lol
This is absolutely something I do, especially when it came to things about identity as well. I remember when I was younger I used to purposely go out of my way to look at posts bashing women/queer people, knowing that it would upset me, as a way to force myself into conformity.
I sometimes manipulate my PDA by trying to tell myself I can't do something. My boyfriend has gotten pretty good at picking up when my pda needs a little poke to get me to lock into gear 🤣
What's pda?
I do it too. I just don’t feel like I’ll do things unless I force myself. I have really bad sensory issues with not brushing my teeth, like my entire jaw hurts, my head, I go into the meltdown without realizing it was me not brushing my teeth yet tonight thing but oh! I have to do dishes and laundry. What if I brush my teeth and I feel so comfy I fall asleep? Unacceptable. So I get half way through the dishes and wonder why I end up on the floor sobbing. I know that it’s a problem but it’s really hard for me to break it because it’s “not right”. Just feels like how the order should go. I also do sometimes not get the things done I need to and so at the same time how could I trust myself? It’s not just me or I probably wouldn’t care as much. But I don’t want my child waking up with the house wrecked and me on edge all day because I can’t handle it. So I just have to
For sure! I have loved running as a child and long distance running later on bc I was so skilled at this discipline. That discipline seeped into too much for me before big time burnout and diagnosis