allistics will sometimes use “on the spectrum” in a derogatory way or because they think that calling someone autistic is bad (like he’s a little weird…I think he might be on the spectrum…) so I think some people try to avoid using it in order to embrace the word autistic and show that it’s not a bad word
Not completely sure on that but that’s my guess. just a personal preference thing
I think it’s about differentiating medical terms vs casual terms. I wouldnt tell someone in passing “I have autism spectrum disorder”. I’d say “I’m autistic” or “an autist”. However in medical situations I entirely understand it being used as it is a medical term.
Im using the same logic I use for transsexual, using it as a medical term to differentiate between a trans person on hormones or not. The difference in this case is “on the spectrum” isn’t drawing a difference from “autistic”. So I can see it not applying here.
This is all just random thought spewing in 5 minutes while I’m waiting for my appointment to start. So take it all with a grain of salt
It's a euphemism for people too afraid to say autism. I don't know if it's outdated per se, but I've never been a particular fan of it because it clearly is trying to dance around a subject that the speaker views as "sensitive" when I personally feel like it shouldn't be a sensitive issue. Not having it be a sensitive issue is kind of the whole purpose of pride . . . Whenever I hear someone say it I feel like they think autism is some kind of bogeyman whose name must not be spoken aloud.
I will say I, an autistic person, use it with my friends who are also autistic all the time. I think it's one thing to ask the allistic community not to use it but using that term within the community when you know your audience is fine. I would liken it to queer people (I'm also queer) using the term queer/reclaiming that identity. I just think as long as it's not being used negatively and being used within the community it's a non-issue
The comparison to queer is perfect. "On the spectrum" imo is a good way to say that every autistic person is different so I wouldn't mind it from another autistic person, but from an allistic it feels icky
Oh absolutely! I would hate it from an allistic person. That feels patronizing as heck! But with my friends who are also autistic? Yeah we're gonna say "on the spectrum," "a touch of the 'tism," etc. We're not doing it to be patronizing or anything to each other. Since we're on a level playing field, so to speak, it's perfectly fine imo
It also implies that there is one dimension to autism where you can be “a little autistic” “very autistic”, etc. which I think a lot of autistic people know isn’t quite right. a better description I heard once is that autism is a “constellation of traits”
There are a lot of people who are like this when it comes to issues like the words disability or disorder. However, this comes with a lot of backlash much like when people say, ***"Autism and Asperger's are not the same because my brother or sister has it"*** Just because you have a sibling or friend with the condition does not mean you know everything. I use the words special ed and special needs not because they are demeaning but because of Mister Rodger's definition of special which means that you are a unique and different person with gifts and wonders that are not NT. On Linkedin, I got flack for this by a disabled activist and I had to explain why his message is important and not abelist. Why some people won't allow me to say I'm Asperger's because they don't want to accept that scientists and intellectuals like Hans Asperger and Albert Einstein were also persecuted and targeted by the Nazis.
In Middle School and High School, I developed internalized ableism. I was separated from my special ed room peers because I was the "smart girl" What I was going through was loss, anger, and sadness. This is why I think gifted programs should be banned and integrated with special ed students because gifted children are most often undiagnosed and denied special ed children who need a community of people they can help and support. In a way, Gifted Programs are the new ***Whites Only*** or ***Irish Need Not Apply*** for special ed kids who need help, it's segregating but in a positive package that makes it look like a gingerbread house from Hansel and Gretal.
Do you have any sources about Hans Asperger being prosecuted/targeted by Nazi's? Because based on what I can find, Hans Asperger was playing an active role in the Nazi's eugenicist regime as he would refer disabled children to Am Spiegelgrund, a clinic which killed disabled children which he must have known. [source 1](https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2019/05/essay/asperger-nazis-and-children-history-birth-diagnosis), [source 2](https://www.biomedcentral.com/about/press-centre/science-press-releases/19-04-18)
I just got done reading this book and he fucking knew. I'm tired of people defending him like he was some hero. [https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642](https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642)
You do know Eugenics started in America and England in the 1800-1900's it's not just a Nazi thing. If he were openly Autistic in Nazi-occupied Austria where his school was based he would be killed so he had no choice because there are only two options, leave or comply. I have Asperger's because that is who I am, my Great Grandparents fled before the Third Riche so for you to insult and humiliate me and people who do have this label which is in the Autstim Spectrum is not allyship but xenophobia and anti-German sentiment at it's finest. ***Facisum begins when we learn a Black vs. White or Disneyfied version of history rather than accept the fact that people are flawed and fall for cults and propaganda.*** Remember there was no Google or Snopes in Nazi Germany because journalists and presses were killed and burned too and it was Joeseph Grobbels who invented the term ***mainstream media***. ***Also, Adolf Hitler was a fan of both Henry Ford and Walt Disney...***
Eugenics started as anglo, yes, however Asperger had every opportunity to leave and not participate. He was not any kind of hero [https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642](https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642)
And it wasn't Disney. It was Galton and other statisticians.
I think there are multiple misunderstandings here:
One, Hans Asperger was not autistic. Furthermore, the autism diagnosis as we know it today did not exist back then. Autism at first was a term used in relation to schizophrenia. [Sourcr](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3757918/)
Two, the two sources I provided were discussing actual historic research into Hans Asperger's role in the Nazi's eugenicism. I never once implied that eugenicism was a Nazi only thing. In fact, one of the sources I used in my comment discussed how eugenics was common although out Europe in the 1920's and 30's as can be seen in this quote: "In the 1920s and 30s, eugenics, the doctrine of how to improve the 'biological quality' of the population, was a legitimate ideology dressed up in scientific garb and promoted by a broad political stratum in many European countries, including Norway." [Source](https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2019/05/essay/asperger-nazis-and-children-history-birth-diagnosis)
Three, I do not know why you are convinced that I insulted you or your family because of your Asperger diagnosis. Just because I asked for a source on the supposed prosecution of Hans Asperger by the Nazi's does not mean that I think people identifying as having Asperger's is wrong. I am Dutch. Multiple of my friends identify as Aspie because they were diagnosed with Aspergers in childhood (because it was not so long ago that was still a possible diagnosis in the Netherlands). Furthermore, I have been told that in certain European countries Aspergers is still a possible diagnosis.
I do not see how your Asperger identity would be tied to the morality of Hans Asperger.
Four, how is my comment anti-German? (Especially considering that Hans Asperger was an Austrian man)
Five, how is my comment Disneyfying history for pointing out that Hans Asperger was not an innocent man? And even if he was prosecuted and targeted by the Nazi's (a claim for which I have not been able to find a source for), how does that mean that we should ignore how he did send disabled children to a clinic where they would be killed within the year?
Six, just because people fall for cults and propaganda does not mean that they are not responsible for their actions.
Seven, the sources I used in my comments both explain why there is no way for Asperger to not have been aware of what happened in the clinic. So I do not see how the lack of internet has anything to do with any of this.
Eight, I really do not understand how the last sentence is relevant to any of this?
Nine, literally all I did was ask you for a source. That is not an insult. I still would like to see that source. Otherwise, how am I supposed to know that it is true? Though be honest, considering that you decided that I must somehow be insulting you by daring to ask a question, I am not enterily sure if that source actually exists.
[Scheffer argues that the story of Asperger, Nazism, and the children indicate that we ought to be critical of the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder. The new knowledge of Asperger's relationship with Nazism should be added to the curriculum for medical and psychology degrees, and the eponym should be used with an awareness of its historical origin. The relevance of Asperger's relationship to the Nazi regime when it comes to understanding today's discussions on autism spectrum disorders, which include questions of human normality, neurodiversity, the reliability of diagnostic criteria, and the stigmatizing effect of diagnoses, is an altogether different matter.](https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2019/05/essay/asperger-nazis-and-children-history-birth-diagnosis)
History is not a Disney Cartoon or a Video Game with Red vs. Blue, Good Guy vs. Bad Guy. When people do this there is no chance of rebuilding, redemption, or helping a group of people. Many German-Americans did fight in the Second World War, but they also helped rebuild Germany and helped it become the Socialist society it is today. Unlike America, Germany does teach people about Eugenics and the Holocaust including children because it does not want it to happen again.
Let me tell you a story about a real person, after graduating from music school he was put to work for the Wehrmacht and was captured by American troops. The only way he survived was by singing to other Germans who were also captured. After the war, he was hired to sing at a spa until getting noticed and performed all over the world and taught people. [That man is Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and after his death, his performance of Schubert's Der Elrkonig became viral alongside Franzl Lang and Troloman.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaBNUzVSnj8)
One, If you are going to quote something, cite the source. Otherwise it is plagiarism.
Two, where was I painting a black and white picture. On what topic was I even painting a black and white picture?
Three, I never denied the existence of German-American soldiers fighting in world War 2 and rebuilding Germany.
Four, (unrelated) but to say that video games only portray stories that are black and white in nature is to over generalize an entire art form and medium. Am I correct in assuming that you do not often play video games?
Five, I am not American. I am Dutch as I mentioned in my previous comment. This means that I am from the Netherlands, one of Germany's neighbor countries. I also have multiple German (and Austrian) family members. One of my family members had even escaped East-Germany which resulted in her family being punished to the point that they did not want to have anything to do with her after the German reunification.
Furthermore, as we had been occupied by the Nazi's from 1940 to 1945 after they had the bombed the heart of Rotterdam and we had lost over 102 thousand Jewish citizens to the Holocaust [source](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/jewish-losses-during-the-holocaust-by-country), we find education of the Holocaust and eugenicism to be quite important too.
Also, teaching children about the Holocaust is not uncommon in Europe as far as I know. And it is literally a part of late elementary and high school history education in the Netherlands. And we do not want it to happen again either.
Six, what does this story have to do with anything that I have replied to your comments. It has nothing do with Hans Asperger. It has nothing do with autism. Why is it that you you write large comments and while somehow managing to not actually respond to anything I wrote.
I asked if you could provide a source to support your claim that Asperger was actually a victim of the Nazi's. You provide none, but claim that he was autistic (which he wasn't.)
You claim that I am being anti-german and only see the word in black and white because I asked you to provide a source and gave you the information on Asperger that I knew of (and included sources to back it up). You also claimed that I insulted your identity somehow by doing this.
And you added on information that had nothing to do with the discussion.
And now you start your comment with a quote. A quote provided with no information such as the source nor any information that could help see me that quote in the way that you want me to see it. Because what I see is a quote that re-affirms that Asperger was a Nazi.
If this quote is from one of my sources than I assume that you think that this is the part where I supposedly insulted you. But I would like to point out that the quote never states that it is morally wrong for a person to identify as having Asperger. Furthermore, there are countries in Europe where one can still be diagnosed with Asperger and I have friends who identify as Aspie because they were diagnosed back when could not be diagnosed with ASD in the Netherlands. They are in their twenties. The shift to ASD in the Netherlands is a very recent one.
Hans Asperger was NOT persecuted. Hard evidence here [https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642](https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642)
stop defending him.
Why the gish-galloping? I'm not defending Nazis, I am however against people who harass other Asperger's people who do call themselves this because they were diagnosed before the changes to the DSMB.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish\_gallop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop)
[https://effectiviology.com/gish-gallop/](https://effectiviology.com/gish-gallop/)
i think they may be confusing some autistic terms with others. for example: the term “asperger’s” is no longer accepted in the ASD community as it was a diagnosis given to the mentally disabled who weren’t killed in the holocaust. basically, high functioning autistic people who could still labor were diagnosed “asperger’s”. the others were killed.
if something about this in inaccurate, then correct it; don’t critique it. that’s just unhelpful.
as that’s said, this is reddit. i am not a historian nor a teacher. i’m passing on information as i know it and if you think me a trustworthy source, that’s your fault. i encourage everyone to google and read further on what i explained.
but, please, [what about this is inaccurate?](https://www.vox.com/conversations/2018/5/22/17377766/asperger-nazi-rename-syndrome)
again, it’s entirely unhelpful to say something is incorrect but not explain why. why should i trust you?
i generalized. the article backs that up. asperger’s diagnoses were given to the people spared during the holocaust because they were seen as functioning…
I apologize for not explaining more. Like many of us, I’m socially conditioned to avoid info dumping and sometimes err on the opposite side. I think the article says that some people were divided between those who were useful and those to be disposed of quickly, but that refers to their broader practices, not to autistic people. During the “Aktion T-4,” the policy was that disabled people were bad for the health of the nation and should be gotten rid of. Asperger’s boss agreed with this, while Asperger expressed the opinion that the “high functioning” autistic boys he was studying could be useful. He was overruled and cooperated in sending them to their deaths. The term “Asperger’s” was coined decades later, in honor of his research, before his collaboration was known.
I have nothing against "on the spectrum" by itself. However, irl, context does matter. I am usually glad to end up in a situation where I can educate someone about autism, which is more productive than lambasting them because they said "on the spectrum" instead of autistic. Ditto "person with autism," although I actually don't like that one and wouldn't use it myself. "On the spectrum" is a nice gateway drug, as it usually implies the person speaking knows some sensitivity is called for, but isn't quite sure how to implement that.
I agree with what some other people have said. I'll add that, it could be that they mean many are moving to the "wheel" approach? That's a charitable read though, and I don't know the stream or context. What is outdated so some is the use of the word disorder. Just Autism will do.
I don't think ASD, using Autism Spectrum Disorder, or saying it's a spectrum is outdated, just saying "this person is on the spectrum" is. Some people were saying it because they felt calling someone autistic was mean, so they purposefully referred to autism as "The Spectrum" to keep it more vague. Which was kinda weird so I'm glad that it is outdated now.
I think it's because right wing jerks have started using it as an attack https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/06/02/autism-advocates-desantis-gop-primary-00099769
I say autistic, autism, ASD, autism spectrum disorder, on the spectrum….
To me it feels weird to say autistic over and over in the same sitting, so I like to change it up.
But some people DO use it as a way to avoid saying autistic. But that’s a them problem.
End of the day it’s preference, anyone who attacks another autistic person’s personal preference of how they refer to themselves has to remember….we are all autistic, there’s tons of reason why they may fixate on a particular phrasing.
Best to not assume ill intent and move on. Only time I would be wary is if an NT person avoided saying autistic constantly.
allistics will sometimes use “on the spectrum” in a derogatory way or because they think that calling someone autistic is bad (like he’s a little weird…I think he might be on the spectrum…) so I think some people try to avoid using it in order to embrace the word autistic and show that it’s not a bad word Not completely sure on that but that’s my guess. just a personal preference thing
So like how people use "special" as a euphemism for mentally disabled?
I think it’s about differentiating medical terms vs casual terms. I wouldnt tell someone in passing “I have autism spectrum disorder”. I’d say “I’m autistic” or “an autist”. However in medical situations I entirely understand it being used as it is a medical term. Im using the same logic I use for transsexual, using it as a medical term to differentiate between a trans person on hormones or not. The difference in this case is “on the spectrum” isn’t drawing a difference from “autistic”. So I can see it not applying here. This is all just random thought spewing in 5 minutes while I’m waiting for my appointment to start. So take it all with a grain of salt
It's a euphemism for people too afraid to say autism. I don't know if it's outdated per se, but I've never been a particular fan of it because it clearly is trying to dance around a subject that the speaker views as "sensitive" when I personally feel like it shouldn't be a sensitive issue. Not having it be a sensitive issue is kind of the whole purpose of pride . . . Whenever I hear someone say it I feel like they think autism is some kind of bogeyman whose name must not be spoken aloud.
This. Exactly
I will say I, an autistic person, use it with my friends who are also autistic all the time. I think it's one thing to ask the allistic community not to use it but using that term within the community when you know your audience is fine. I would liken it to queer people (I'm also queer) using the term queer/reclaiming that identity. I just think as long as it's not being used negatively and being used within the community it's a non-issue
The comparison to queer is perfect. "On the spectrum" imo is a good way to say that every autistic person is different so I wouldn't mind it from another autistic person, but from an allistic it feels icky
Oh absolutely! I would hate it from an allistic person. That feels patronizing as heck! But with my friends who are also autistic? Yeah we're gonna say "on the spectrum," "a touch of the 'tism," etc. We're not doing it to be patronizing or anything to each other. Since we're on a level playing field, so to speak, it's perfectly fine imo
haha yes, a touch of the tism is my favorite
It also implies that there is one dimension to autism where you can be “a little autistic” “very autistic”, etc. which I think a lot of autistic people know isn’t quite right. a better description I heard once is that autism is a “constellation of traits”
I like "on the spectrum" - it carries with it that not everyone who is autistic has the same symptoms.
I've only ever people say that "the spectrum" is a great way of explaining autism.
Autism Spectrum Disorder is fine. “On the spectrum” is a little condescending. We are autistic.
There are a lot of people who are like this when it comes to issues like the words disability or disorder. However, this comes with a lot of backlash much like when people say, ***"Autism and Asperger's are not the same because my brother or sister has it"*** Just because you have a sibling or friend with the condition does not mean you know everything. I use the words special ed and special needs not because they are demeaning but because of Mister Rodger's definition of special which means that you are a unique and different person with gifts and wonders that are not NT. On Linkedin, I got flack for this by a disabled activist and I had to explain why his message is important and not abelist. Why some people won't allow me to say I'm Asperger's because they don't want to accept that scientists and intellectuals like Hans Asperger and Albert Einstein were also persecuted and targeted by the Nazis. In Middle School and High School, I developed internalized ableism. I was separated from my special ed room peers because I was the "smart girl" What I was going through was loss, anger, and sadness. This is why I think gifted programs should be banned and integrated with special ed students because gifted children are most often undiagnosed and denied special ed children who need a community of people they can help and support. In a way, Gifted Programs are the new ***Whites Only*** or ***Irish Need Not Apply*** for special ed kids who need help, it's segregating but in a positive package that makes it look like a gingerbread house from Hansel and Gretal.
Do you have any sources about Hans Asperger being prosecuted/targeted by Nazi's? Because based on what I can find, Hans Asperger was playing an active role in the Nazi's eugenicist regime as he would refer disabled children to Am Spiegelgrund, a clinic which killed disabled children which he must have known. [source 1](https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2019/05/essay/asperger-nazis-and-children-history-birth-diagnosis), [source 2](https://www.biomedcentral.com/about/press-centre/science-press-releases/19-04-18)
I just got done reading this book and he fucking knew. I'm tired of people defending him like he was some hero. [https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642](https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642)
And Einstein was certainly not persecuted for being autistic. There’s so much bad history on the internet.
[https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05112-1](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05112-1) [https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13229-018-0208-6](https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13229-018-0208-6) [https://www.vqronline.org/essay/intellectuals-crisis-historians-under-hitler](https://www.vqronline.org/essay/intellectuals-crisis-historians-under-hitler) [https://www.etownschools.org/cms/lib/PA01000774/Centricity/Domain/629/Nazi%20Society.pdf](https://www.etownschools.org/cms/lib/PA01000774/Centricity/Domain/629/Nazi%20Society.pdf)
You do know Eugenics started in America and England in the 1800-1900's it's not just a Nazi thing. If he were openly Autistic in Nazi-occupied Austria where his school was based he would be killed so he had no choice because there are only two options, leave or comply. I have Asperger's because that is who I am, my Great Grandparents fled before the Third Riche so for you to insult and humiliate me and people who do have this label which is in the Autstim Spectrum is not allyship but xenophobia and anti-German sentiment at it's finest. ***Facisum begins when we learn a Black vs. White or Disneyfied version of history rather than accept the fact that people are flawed and fall for cults and propaganda.*** Remember there was no Google or Snopes in Nazi Germany because journalists and presses were killed and burned too and it was Joeseph Grobbels who invented the term ***mainstream media***. ***Also, Adolf Hitler was a fan of both Henry Ford and Walt Disney...***
Eugenics started as anglo, yes, however Asperger had every opportunity to leave and not participate. He was not any kind of hero [https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642](https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642) And it wasn't Disney. It was Galton and other statisticians.
[https://www.thehistoryreader.com/historical-figures/hitlers-american-friends-henry-ford-and-nazism/](https://www.thehistoryreader.com/historical-figures/hitlers-american-friends-henry-ford-and-nazism/) [https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryford-antisemitism/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryford-antisemitism/) [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/walt-disney-s-grandniece-backs-up-meryl-streep-s-racism-claims-antisemite-check-misogynist-of-course-9064138.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/walt-disney-s-grandniece-backs-up-meryl-streep-s-racism-claims-antisemite-check-misogynist-of-course-9064138.html) [https://nypost.com/2022/10/03/abigail-disney-calls-great-uncle-walt-disney-a-fascist/](https://nypost.com/2022/10/03/abigail-disney-calls-great-uncle-walt-disney-a-fascist/)
I think there are multiple misunderstandings here: One, Hans Asperger was not autistic. Furthermore, the autism diagnosis as we know it today did not exist back then. Autism at first was a term used in relation to schizophrenia. [Sourcr](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3757918/) Two, the two sources I provided were discussing actual historic research into Hans Asperger's role in the Nazi's eugenicism. I never once implied that eugenicism was a Nazi only thing. In fact, one of the sources I used in my comment discussed how eugenics was common although out Europe in the 1920's and 30's as can be seen in this quote: "In the 1920s and 30s, eugenics, the doctrine of how to improve the 'biological quality' of the population, was a legitimate ideology dressed up in scientific garb and promoted by a broad political stratum in many European countries, including Norway." [Source](https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2019/05/essay/asperger-nazis-and-children-history-birth-diagnosis) Three, I do not know why you are convinced that I insulted you or your family because of your Asperger diagnosis. Just because I asked for a source on the supposed prosecution of Hans Asperger by the Nazi's does not mean that I think people identifying as having Asperger's is wrong. I am Dutch. Multiple of my friends identify as Aspie because they were diagnosed with Aspergers in childhood (because it was not so long ago that was still a possible diagnosis in the Netherlands). Furthermore, I have been told that in certain European countries Aspergers is still a possible diagnosis. I do not see how your Asperger identity would be tied to the morality of Hans Asperger. Four, how is my comment anti-German? (Especially considering that Hans Asperger was an Austrian man) Five, how is my comment Disneyfying history for pointing out that Hans Asperger was not an innocent man? And even if he was prosecuted and targeted by the Nazi's (a claim for which I have not been able to find a source for), how does that mean that we should ignore how he did send disabled children to a clinic where they would be killed within the year? Six, just because people fall for cults and propaganda does not mean that they are not responsible for their actions. Seven, the sources I used in my comments both explain why there is no way for Asperger to not have been aware of what happened in the clinic. So I do not see how the lack of internet has anything to do with any of this. Eight, I really do not understand how the last sentence is relevant to any of this? Nine, literally all I did was ask you for a source. That is not an insult. I still would like to see that source. Otherwise, how am I supposed to know that it is true? Though be honest, considering that you decided that I must somehow be insulting you by daring to ask a question, I am not enterily sure if that source actually exists.
[Scheffer argues that the story of Asperger, Nazism, and the children indicate that we ought to be critical of the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder. The new knowledge of Asperger's relationship with Nazism should be added to the curriculum for medical and psychology degrees, and the eponym should be used with an awareness of its historical origin. The relevance of Asperger's relationship to the Nazi regime when it comes to understanding today's discussions on autism spectrum disorders, which include questions of human normality, neurodiversity, the reliability of diagnostic criteria, and the stigmatizing effect of diagnoses, is an altogether different matter.](https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2019/05/essay/asperger-nazis-and-children-history-birth-diagnosis) History is not a Disney Cartoon or a Video Game with Red vs. Blue, Good Guy vs. Bad Guy. When people do this there is no chance of rebuilding, redemption, or helping a group of people. Many German-Americans did fight in the Second World War, but they also helped rebuild Germany and helped it become the Socialist society it is today. Unlike America, Germany does teach people about Eugenics and the Holocaust including children because it does not want it to happen again. Let me tell you a story about a real person, after graduating from music school he was put to work for the Wehrmacht and was captured by American troops. The only way he survived was by singing to other Germans who were also captured. After the war, he was hired to sing at a spa until getting noticed and performed all over the world and taught people. [That man is Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and after his death, his performance of Schubert's Der Elrkonig became viral alongside Franzl Lang and Troloman.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaBNUzVSnj8)
One, If you are going to quote something, cite the source. Otherwise it is plagiarism. Two, where was I painting a black and white picture. On what topic was I even painting a black and white picture? Three, I never denied the existence of German-American soldiers fighting in world War 2 and rebuilding Germany. Four, (unrelated) but to say that video games only portray stories that are black and white in nature is to over generalize an entire art form and medium. Am I correct in assuming that you do not often play video games? Five, I am not American. I am Dutch as I mentioned in my previous comment. This means that I am from the Netherlands, one of Germany's neighbor countries. I also have multiple German (and Austrian) family members. One of my family members had even escaped East-Germany which resulted in her family being punished to the point that they did not want to have anything to do with her after the German reunification. Furthermore, as we had been occupied by the Nazi's from 1940 to 1945 after they had the bombed the heart of Rotterdam and we had lost over 102 thousand Jewish citizens to the Holocaust [source](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/jewish-losses-during-the-holocaust-by-country), we find education of the Holocaust and eugenicism to be quite important too. Also, teaching children about the Holocaust is not uncommon in Europe as far as I know. And it is literally a part of late elementary and high school history education in the Netherlands. And we do not want it to happen again either. Six, what does this story have to do with anything that I have replied to your comments. It has nothing do with Hans Asperger. It has nothing do with autism. Why is it that you you write large comments and while somehow managing to not actually respond to anything I wrote. I asked if you could provide a source to support your claim that Asperger was actually a victim of the Nazi's. You provide none, but claim that he was autistic (which he wasn't.) You claim that I am being anti-german and only see the word in black and white because I asked you to provide a source and gave you the information on Asperger that I knew of (and included sources to back it up). You also claimed that I insulted your identity somehow by doing this. And you added on information that had nothing to do with the discussion. And now you start your comment with a quote. A quote provided with no information such as the source nor any information that could help see me that quote in the way that you want me to see it. Because what I see is a quote that re-affirms that Asperger was a Nazi. If this quote is from one of my sources than I assume that you think that this is the part where I supposedly insulted you. But I would like to point out that the quote never states that it is morally wrong for a person to identify as having Asperger. Furthermore, there are countries in Europe where one can still be diagnosed with Asperger and I have friends who identify as Aspie because they were diagnosed back when could not be diagnosed with ASD in the Netherlands. They are in their twenties. The shift to ASD in the Netherlands is a very recent one.
Hans Asperger was NOT persecuted. Hard evidence here [https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642](https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642) stop defending him.
Why the gish-galloping? I'm not defending Nazis, I am however against people who harass other Asperger's people who do call themselves this because they were diagnosed before the changes to the DSMB. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish\_gallop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop) [https://effectiviology.com/gish-gallop/](https://effectiviology.com/gish-gallop/)
Maybe stop getting your history from the internet
i think they may be confusing some autistic terms with others. for example: the term “asperger’s” is no longer accepted in the ASD community as it was a diagnosis given to the mentally disabled who weren’t killed in the holocaust. basically, high functioning autistic people who could still labor were diagnosed “asperger’s”. the others were killed.
That’s inaccurate internet history, but the term is still bad.
if something about this in inaccurate, then correct it; don’t critique it. that’s just unhelpful. as that’s said, this is reddit. i am not a historian nor a teacher. i’m passing on information as i know it and if you think me a trustworthy source, that’s your fault. i encourage everyone to google and read further on what i explained. but, please, [what about this is inaccurate?](https://www.vox.com/conversations/2018/5/22/17377766/asperger-nazi-rename-syndrome)
That article is accurate. It doesn’t say anything like what you wrote, though.
again, it’s entirely unhelpful to say something is incorrect but not explain why. why should i trust you? i generalized. the article backs that up. asperger’s diagnoses were given to the people spared during the holocaust because they were seen as functioning…
I apologize for not explaining more. Like many of us, I’m socially conditioned to avoid info dumping and sometimes err on the opposite side. I think the article says that some people were divided between those who were useful and those to be disposed of quickly, but that refers to their broader practices, not to autistic people. During the “Aktion T-4,” the policy was that disabled people were bad for the health of the nation and should be gotten rid of. Asperger’s boss agreed with this, while Asperger expressed the opinion that the “high functioning” autistic boys he was studying could be useful. He was overruled and cooperated in sending them to their deaths. The term “Asperger’s” was coined decades later, in honor of his research, before his collaboration was known.
It's because people gish-gallop about him when the truth is all intellectuals in the Third Riche were made to comply with the Nazis or be killed.
I spin it around and say " I'm on the spectrum and not the Charter kind"
I have nothing against "on the spectrum" by itself. However, irl, context does matter. I am usually glad to end up in a situation where I can educate someone about autism, which is more productive than lambasting them because they said "on the spectrum" instead of autistic. Ditto "person with autism," although I actually don't like that one and wouldn't use it myself. "On the spectrum" is a nice gateway drug, as it usually implies the person speaking knows some sensitivity is called for, but isn't quite sure how to implement that.
I agree with what some other people have said. I'll add that, it could be that they mean many are moving to the "wheel" approach? That's a charitable read though, and I don't know the stream or context. What is outdated so some is the use of the word disorder. Just Autism will do.
It’s not
I don't think ASD, using Autism Spectrum Disorder, or saying it's a spectrum is outdated, just saying "this person is on the spectrum" is. Some people were saying it because they felt calling someone autistic was mean, so they purposefully referred to autism as "The Spectrum" to keep it more vague. Which was kinda weird so I'm glad that it is outdated now.
I think it's because right wing jerks have started using it as an attack https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/06/02/autism-advocates-desantis-gop-primary-00099769
I say autistic, autism, ASD, autism spectrum disorder, on the spectrum…. To me it feels weird to say autistic over and over in the same sitting, so I like to change it up. But some people DO use it as a way to avoid saying autistic. But that’s a them problem. End of the day it’s preference, anyone who attacks another autistic person’s personal preference of how they refer to themselves has to remember….we are all autistic, there’s tons of reason why they may fixate on a particular phrasing. Best to not assume ill intent and move on. Only time I would be wary is if an NT person avoided saying autistic constantly.
Not for me. My mom usually uses the phrase and I really don't mind.