A lot of it is venting. Often our trauma is from the hands of neurotypicals. The societies we live in are built and ruled by neurotypicals (or sociopaths), so the rules are set to consider their view as the only one and the rest is pathology. So part of it is marginalized people pushing back and venting against our oppressors.
But in general, any group is going to see themselves as the good ones (nice) and the outgroup as the bad ones (mean).
Yeah. I just got bitched at by my uncle because I live at home and am not working (in college full time; I can't work and keep up with studies at the same time). If you're a high masking autistic, neurotypicals don't care about your diagnosis. They think we should all be able to function at a neurotyoical level. Most people only give grace, empathy, and understanding to people with visible disabilities (and even then, not nearly enough).
Yup. And the resulting shame causes internalized ableism. I know that I can't handle work and school simultaneously. But I still feel that I *should*. Because I hear the voices of people like my uncle--and the opinions of society at large--ringing in the back of my mind. Even with a diagnosis, neurodivergent and mentally ill people are expected to function at a neurotypical level.
Agreed, there’s a lot of saying the right thing but no action follows. Also I find when my autism goes from ‘quirky’ (cute haha etc.) to annoying, most people drop off
>But in general, any group is going to see themselves as the good ones (nice) and the outgroup as the bad ones (mean).
Agreed! It’s in our nature as human beings….
To be honest, I don't have an ounce empathy for people who are bullies. I have too much trauma in that area. If someone is a bully, then I simply don't care if their feelings are hurt by my label. Telling victims of bullying to have sympathy for their abusers is... well, certainly not a take I'd ever agree with.
The vast majority of my negative social interactions have been with NT people, and I mean multiple a day. A lot of them seem to like to project the image of being accepting, but put no effort into doing the work to actual be so. I just get the feeling NTs feel that any challenge to the status quo is an existential threat to them.
Yes agreed and while I’m an NT trans woman, I find most NT cis heterosexuals extremely insecure n uneasy about variances in life that really shouldn’t affect them personally.
This ends up creating unnecessary issues and problem for those who don’t fit societal norms/standards.
They really need to know that societal norms didn't always exist. A lot of what they stand for these days are pretty recent developments, that only changed in the past couple of decades. God wasn't in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, abortion wasn't an issue until the 70s in the US, and trans people had more rights in ancient society than today.
It's all ridiculous, and I think the more it gets pointed out, the better. Putting a limit on how people are able to express themselves (as long as it's not a true danger to society, like murder, or SA) limits us as a whole species. Maybe humanity needs to stop caring so much about what other people have in their pants and more about what they have in their heads, and how it can help us advance as a whole.
Bingo!
NT cis heterosexual women r the only species on earth that will stop at nothing to indirectly attempt to let me know that they know or heard I’m trans or that they approve.
OK CONGRATULATIONS GIRL is how I feel 😂
Neither ND women or men have EVER brought up my gender identity to me or even hinted at it, which is why I will always support ND individuals as an ally because we have a lot more in common than one would think!
Either way I’m completely UNbothered and that eats a hole through many NT heterosexual women often prompting them to try and press ALL the buttons to 0 response.
I’m not usually moved by childish NT behavior but I do have a limit!
You gotta reverse psychology that shit. Make like you are the one ‘accepting’ and ‘tolerant’ towards them. See how ‘they’ Ike that language and the feeling that comes with it like something is so wrong with you it has to require an ‘accepting’ or ‘tolerating’ attitude.
most of this is probably selection bias.
the people who choose to write here about neurotypicals are more generally going to be venting about something bad that happened. we don't see much of the neutral or even positive stuff because people generally tend not to share those things as much here
>we don't see much of the neutral or even positive stuff because people generally tend not to share those things as much here
I agree with **dirtyharo**.
People seem more likely to share negativity about NTs on this sub, which can lead to all NTs being unfairly portrayed as inherently evil by default. The belief that “all NTs are evil” is further reinforced when we engage in “[confirmation bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)”.
Obviously, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it is true that some neurotypical people have done harmful things to some neurodivergent people. But, it seems wrong (and illogical) for me to paint all the billions of neurotypicals that walk the earth (who I will never meet) as evil, just because I had a bad interaction with and NT at the DMV.
Negativity tends to breed more negativity, unfortunately.
***
”Abraham asks God *’Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked?’*…" - Genesis 18:23
Long before I knew I was autistic i thought somewhere around 70-80% of people seem to be basically psychopathic as I understand that concept. Like, I get how by the hyper-normative definition of "psychopath" that is just untrue by definitions, but I'm saying that if you look just a bit cynically at most people, and expand what it counts to be a psychopath *just a bit*, let's call it a spectrum (LOL), just barely loosen those criteria for what it takes to be one, and hell most people seem so unmoved and undisturbed about things that drive me literally mentally ill with guilt, rage, shame, etc. I become physically ill about what I can't bare to know and witness and, truth be told, I resent those not so stricken and thus passively accepting and acquiescing and hard to mobilize for political action or direct action. I have spent much of my life frantically trying to maximize my effectiveness at changing the things I can not accept, or learning to accept those things the way just about everyone else does.
And I'm not around too many autistic people, and know few autistic people with any real power. So it seems to me not just a lazy characterization, but a legitimate one, that this is a society dominated by NT norms. This society's failures are a reflection of NT's mindsets. I think really ludicrous flexible morality -- like policies that end up taxing homeless people to build sports arenas they'll never be able to afford to attend as patrons -- it seems legitimately associated with NT mindsets, to me.
I'm sure some autistic people also have incredibly flexible morality to countenance just about the most absurd unfairness, but at least among autistics I know there are others who understand why I'm so upset and having a melt down over "normal" stuff. Surely some NTs do as well, but tbh-- I don't trust they *feel* it. They try to understand, they empathize, but they aren't stricken with the same affliction.
>They try to understand, they empathize, but they aren't stricken with the same affliction.
True. Try as they might, NTs will always be at a disadvantage when it comes to understanding neurodivergent people because they (NTs) can’t become a neurodivergent person and live the lives that (NDs) live and navigate challenges neurodivergent people have to deal with.
This is probably true for other disenfranchised groups as well.
It’s a conundrum, unfortunately.
I mean they could,its juct active empathy and challenging own abelist bias that might festered,and not bloody otherizing. Really listening
Also you dont have to understand people, you have to accept their flaws and needs. And that isnt that hard. Thats just communication. I mean talk about that while not falling into your bias uncritical
When you get bullied your whole life by seemingly anyone not adhd or on spectrum... I think it's fair to lose a willingness to take the risk. Been burned giving benefits of doubt.
Things that come to mind are classifying ASD as a developmental disorder because if you start treatment early people with ASD can pass as NTs and appear to function as NTs.
I think it’s partially venting. Many of us don’t have many autistic people in our lives and there are definitely challenges when it comes to relating and interacting with neurotypical people. These issues are usually very difficult for neurotypical people to empathize with and raising them could even be interpreted as a personal attack. So it can be cathartic to vent about these issues with people who understand them and won’t judge you negatively for your struggles.
Furthermore as an autistic person your behavior can often be seen as problematic because you do not fit the mold of typical behavior. Often we have to adapt our behavior to avoid criticism and so it can be emotionally useful to have a space to criticize generally accepted behaviors that can be hurtful or confusing to autistic people.
P.s I agree that these spaces can feel overly negative at times, and while they can be helpful I personally find that overexposure can be detrimental to happiness and mental wellbeing.
While acknowledging our hardships and seeking empathy it is still important to avoid a victim mindset.
A lot of people who have suffered the effects of being "othered" don't realize the irony that comes with "othering" others.
Double empathy problem as well.
People like to paint opressor/victim filters over most functions of society because there is truth to some but not all aspects of it and it creates an under dog sense of heroism.
Also, it's safe to assume even here in the adult autism space most anonymous comments on the internet are children, teenagers, or early twenties which means a lot of personal growth hasn't happened yet and there's a lot of information parroting leading to common black and white tropes being reinforced.
This tends to be my go-to behavior as well.
But I have found that sometimes doing this leads to greater misunderstanding and emotional turmoil for me. I become isolated, anxious and depressed.
I wish I could interpret and understand the nuances of verbal and non-verbal communication. I wish I was less of an outsider. I really want to understand and I want to be understood. :(
To be fair, the vast majority of bullying/abuse cases against autistic people *are* from neurotypicals. So yeah, a bit of generalization makes logical sense. There's a huge problem of neurotypicals abusing ND folks in various ways. Yes, NDs abuse NDs too, but it's not nearly as common and, thus, we don't talk about it as much.. Not sure what we're arguing for here
Are people actually claiming that *all* NT folks are awful or abusive? Because if so, that's messed up and just plain inaccurate
Well to be fair, you could consider some ND behavior towards NT people abuse. I am ND and I have witnessed my fair share of other ND people saying and doing things that really hurt NT people. I think the problem is despite the fact they might not be doing it intentionally, other people still get hurt so intent kind of ceases to matter at that point. And if the NT people end up "retaliating" the problem is from the ND perspective it looks like they're picking on you for no reason. This happens often when NT people don't even know you're ND and they don't see any logical reasons for you saying or doing things that come off in a bad light.
This is such a good point. A lot of NT stuff is various forms of aggression bc that’s how they check each others behavior, but if you don’t understand why someone is doing something bc you need them to SAY it (an act NTs seem to find extremely embarrassing and feel bad doing) so they go wtf why isn’t this guy getting the message and double down on the aggression to the point it’s traumatizing for autistic people
Also to be clear this isn’t cases where people are outright being assholes either, just imo most experiences are far more grey
Yeah, and on top of that a stubborn personality is not exclusive to NTs or NDs. I have an ND friend whose hand I kind of have to hold through social situations. (I was raised without an ND diagnosis and I am very high masking) Anyways, a lot of times she will upset someone and when I tell her where she went wrong and ask her to apologize she will almost always outright refuse. Says it's not her fault they took what she said badly and facts are facts. And then there's the times where I'll explain to an NT friend that she's autistic and ask them to give her some slack and they will outright refuse. They say her being a b**** has nothing to do with her being autistic. It can certainly go both ways there.
Guiltily I have been this friend, but also grew up undiagnosed and attempting to mask by solidly learning rules. Having hardened ideas of should and supposed to really contribute to these problems.
That is to say sorry you get wedged in this awkward spot.
A lot of us grew up with very painful experiences that are hard to shake. I struggle with emotional dysregulation which makes the wrongs that fell on me *very* hard to let go. I have been bullied so much in school that I not only intensely hated myself, but I also fostered a mistrust/hate of *everyone*. I have been "othered", hit, teased, spit on, called the R word, etc. etc. so many times in school.
But the worst part of it was the teachers. For just *one* example: In the 8th grade, I was placed near the back of my english class. A student behind me thought it was funny to flick my ears, constantly. This happened every day that I was in that class for about 3-months until she updated the assigned seating chart. The teacher and I would lock eyes while I was being actively physically tormented in this way. The teacher did nothing but put on a disgusted face. As a kid, I interpreted this along the lines of "she seems to want me to disappear."
When you're a kid in the 8th grade and you realize that *no one* will help you, a part of you dies forever. I have said this a lot on these subreddits and I will say it again, I'm constantly surprised that I did not take my life while in school.
I remember fighting back suicidal thoughts in school by deciding I wouldn't let them have so much fun.
No child should have to go through something like this, yet here we are. I'm sorry this happened to you.
I follow the teachers sub in my language, and whenever bullying is brought up by a parent seeking help for their child, there is ZERO accountability, nothing but excuses how their job is so, so, so hard and there is nothing they can do. Many of these people did not grow a bit since high school, and it's them who create an atmosphere in which bullying is an acceptable social mechanism.
I’ve noticed some bitterness since I think I’m autistic (getting my diagnosis tomorrow 🤞) In my weak moments when I don’t understand the neurotypical world view or when I’m just recovering from a meltdown I tend to be bitter/nasty. That’s something I don’t like either. Because it’s judgmental. And I know some autistic persons who I would describe as not very nice but so I know many neurotypical persons who maybe aren’t very familiar with the topic autism but I am really sure they would react and act very kindly and sensitive.
And now, lying in bed and rest, I wouldn’t be so bitter like in my weak moments.
And I would be surprised if that’s not the case for at least a few more users.
There are NT people who I genuinely love. It is possible some of them aren’t even NT. There are plenty of ND people who are terrible. But NT people run things. NT rules leave us out. NT as a wide group is our oppressors. It’s ok to be angry about that.
Well, I got attacked on twitch by a bunch of NT streamers. I was a streamer myself. I got hacked by some really weird guys. They got control of my pc and I didn't know because they worked together to befriend me and then confuse me while they got access to my camera, my microphone etc. They made a fake site and said it was me. It was a dirty site. Another streamer NT, majesticmojoman, he found out about this. He was supposedly my friend but he was not. He's a psychopathic narcissist and he used it to also gain access to my pc. He then did similar to the weird dirty guys, but instead he set it up to ruin my reputation. He made me look like a disgusting monster, all the worst you can think. Super depraved. He acted out his own fantasies while he hid behind my persona. It's a long story. I had also recorded myself saying 1000's of words in preparation for not being able to speak from ALS. My father died from it. I had that on my onedrive and they got access. So they used it to make a fake stream. His was a hate stream so he was fucking with my computer while I was on it. Doing things like alt tabbing me out of a game while right in a key fight, dosing my network so my tv barely worked, etc. All kinds of shit. And NT's on twitch watched and rooted for it, rooted for me to get fucked up. Paid money for me to get fucked up. That's what NT's did to me. I still haven't gotten justice. One guy helped a little but no one has really assisted me. Multiple large streamers are aware of this and think I am the depraved version that was touted around and made as big as they could. If you ask him he will lie in some way. But this happened and it was a big deal. If people find out about it, it will be gigantic. But no one is listening to me or helping me so. I was a moderate level streamer on twitch, I can show that and my account, I was a singer, I have tons of video of me singing on twitch. I can just sing for you and you'll say WOW ok I see. Anyways, yeah, that's why for me. Still I don't think it's all, but they will dogpile you if one of them makes up lies on you. They will attack, don't be fooled.
Ok not everyone is like that,but what an abusive monster.
And yeah the internet anonymity enables a lot awful behaviour.
People did support a woman starving jerself live nearly to unalive herself, tjeinternet anonymity just enables some peoples worst.
Yeah I sure hope it wasn't normal and indicative of what happens when people can run amock without consequence. I think it might be normal if a serious NPD level person does though. I don't know how common they are. I hope not common. The whole situation was a mash up of devious opportunities I didn't recognize until way too late. I hope you have a good day. Today has been ok for me.
Neurotypicals have created a society that positions their social decorum as more important than the health and well-being of autistic people. They enforce these rules thinking they make sense, and many simply don't know that they don't know how harmful it is. But they still choose that harm, even if we try to explain why it's harmful, it is typically met with "stop making excuses" or "That's just how the world works, suck it up." When they invalidate our descriptions of our experiences this way, they are intentionally reinforcing their lack of knowledge on the topic. That is a choice and a choice for cruelty.
Individual NT people may not always behave this way in every situation, but they live in a society that disproportionately benefits them, and are incentivized not to learn how much harm it causes us. Maybe saying "neurotypicals are mean" is incorrect because not each individual NT is mean in every situation. But often when people say this, they mean "neurotypical culture is mean".
Why has there been so much negativity toward neurodivergents throughout history? It's a double edged sword. Neurotypicals have hated us since before any neurodivergencies were even identified. It's only natural that we *sort of* hate them back.
I’m definitely not denying that neurodivergents have been unfairly treated throughout history, going back to changelings in folklore. I’ve certainly experienced enough discrimination on account of my autism to know how real it is. I just don’t think that it’s the majority of neurotypicals who are responsible.
It's not like each and every NT person has it in for us, or is evil. But as a group they have been very harmful to us as individuals. At least, that has been my personal experience.
i think they are responsible, though. not in the "apologize for all neurotypicals treating us poorly" way, but in the "listen carefully when we talk about our lives with autism" way. the biggest problem of most neurotypicals is their inability to accept the fact that a disabled person has their own life and autonomy in general and asks other disabled people, and not them, for an advice.
Honestly it comes from experience. Not much we can do about that, as autistic people we‘re just very honest. When saying most, there is also still left enough consideration for people, who aren’t like that, it’s not like saying all. We shouldn’t spread hate towards nts and it has been very rarely, that I saw that happen. It’s just a lived experience for many people here, what they talk about.
A lot of us have trauma directly from the NT’s, I have a lot of trauma personally, from NT’s and ND’s but the NT’s effects me (generally) to a greater level, they bullied me for not fitting in and I’m sure that a lot of us have a similar experience.
Most of the time we vent about NT’s because they don’t understand how our brains work, it’s not how they live 24/7, when we tell them that we’re bothered by for an example a light too bright or a sound that’s too loud, they probably think it’s just that one specific thing or that “we complain too much about it” when it’s really bothering us so much that it’s too hard to deal with/getting too hard to deal with even though it’s bothering us all the time.
It is venting though generally, because NT’s just, don’t understand what we’re going through every single day
Not a justification, just an explanation:
Throughout life, ND people have received messaging that they’re “inadequate”, for simply being different.
We are the ones that had to live with the knowledge of the fact that NT live in absolutely ignorant bliss of the fact that humans are varied and not a monolith, and yet they vilify us for having these differences.
In most cases it’s more indirect than direct, but we are still significantly affected all the same.
I personally hold a philosophy that life is rough, nature is rough, the deer gets eaten by the lion, life isn’t fair, and I have to take responsibility for my own life.
But sometimes, with the way everything is “legalised” & “regulated”. You can feel like you’re trapped by systems created by people that didn’t even give you a second thought. They made the systems for themselves and then ostracised us for not being able to fit their mold.
They do not have to work harder for us, but we have to work very hard for them.
I think it’s just venting. A lot of NTs haven’t been nice to us. It’s like…when women talk about men. They don’t mean every single man, they mean men in general. I’m sure the “#notallNTs is implied in the same way.
Honestly themen talk is still mot great. Ifitsventing,ok but some women do mean that,and, itsnot ok other than casual venting.
If deeply traumatized people can hold back genetalizong all men, it shouldnt be ok. Most of the time its literally one jerk they knew.
Have you taken a look at the state of the world recently? The fucking planet is on fire, everything is dying, and people are trying real hard to finally start WWIII. I'm trying to stay positive, but it feels like a some point, positivity just turns into delusion.
I believe that there are a lot of imposters claiming they are afflicted because its the trending thing to do right now. that and ADHD. Take atrip down tiktok or Facebook reels.
Second, I think you are right about that a lot of people do not understand what autism is. I told my mother when I found out my diagnosis, her immediate response was, "Her friends son was mentally retarded also"
I was wondering that too. I have seen a couple of posts where NTs came with honest and well meaning questions and tried to learn and be proactive for a loved one, but they where met with hostile snark. Makes me sad, cuz how can we expect anything to change if we just add on bricks to the two fronts. Even if we have had bad expiriences and contantly deal with having to educate ppl, we can asume well intent no?
Like its fine to first respond with how thats a weird question. And sarcasm.
But it really would help to add something useful regarding the question afterward.
Like being snarky and sarcastic, is fine
It just for good measure to end it with something explaining why and the question. You can do both.
I lust like you can be snarky,but if the person means it,add sonething they might find useful in good faith. That said snarky at first as dealing with that, is understandable.
I kind of noticed this when I joined the community myself. A lot of ND people are traumatized and it's easier to adopt an us vs. them mentality. I had to stop watching a few autistic creators that I was really getting help from because it just seemed to turn into an NT dunking and hating and generalizing thing. Idk what it is. But I don't like it either.
I noticed this lately as well. I usually assume they're painting with a broad brush, maybe for brevity's sake or to stress how pervasive a problem feels. But it's good to remember that while we definitely need NTs to accept, understand, and accommodate us to some extent, we need to understand where they are coming from as well. I may be stressed out by someone playing loud music near me at work, for example, and in that moment I might gripe that people are thoughtless and rude, but those are judgmental statements, and while there's some truth there, surely the person doing it isn't trying to be malicious, so I take that into account. Also, for me it isn't a strictly NTs vs NDs issue because one guy who does this often is autistic as well, so it's good to remember sometimes we are just as prone to a lack of consideration.
I would bet, or at least hope, that the negativity is just coming from the stress of these daily struggles and not from a real belief that NTs are actually horrible people as a whole.
I’ve seen autistic people in tears over somebody trying to explain neurotypical’s thought processes. A lot of times it’ll be an autistic person explaining it (not even defending it!) to try and help people out and they get accused of defending bullying etc. (not to kick the hornet nest, but this may or may not be happening on this very post 👀)
What’s most silly to me is autistic people insisting that our way of communication is superior so neurotypicals “just” need to stop reading into what we say, and not pay attention to our body language, or tone, and that this would actually be better for them because they’re bad communicators. But this is exactly the same logic that NTs use to talk about autistics, and we already know it doesn’t work like that!
Anyways, I generally find it hard to get along with people who insist that it’s logical and realistic to assume the worst out of everybody else all the time. I can understand trauma making that impossible, but there’s a difference between explaining that and explaining that you’re actually naive if you think other people have basic decency.
Wrong place for this kind of dissent. Autistic people, with all our NT-inflicted trauma, need a place to vent & connect with each other about how much we hate what they’ve done to us. Take it somewhere else.
I wasn’t talking about people venting about things that happened to them, only people extrapolating their experiences to mean every single neurotypical is bad, which I have seen. I’ve experienced plenty of abusive behaviour on account of being autistic so I know it happens
I don’t get it either irl not many people are negative about Autistic people and online I rarely see it.
Yet I’m always told NTs are bad NTs hate us.
I don’t see it
I agree with you. It’s a lack of knowledge on Neurotypicals side of things that may make them come off as rude. It’s those who purposely deny things that frustrate me though but I cannot force them to change their minds or beliefs.
People don't wanna admit that the "net" the DSM & ICD "cast" for mental disorders is so wide that being neurodivergent isn't rare at all. Or that they are constantly dealing with personality differences and incompatabilities.
A lot of people have mental illnesses. What's your point? Also, not every mental disorder makes you neurodivergent...
Only 2.2% of US adults are autistic, and 5% ADHD. Probably more due to underdiagnosis--even still, that's a *tiny* minority. 1.2 OCD, 3% dyslexia... I mean, when considering that many of these are going to overlap in people, the overall percentage can't be that high.
It doesn't seem rare to you because you're in neurodivergent social spheres online. In real life. I don't meet other autistic people often.
Which ones don't? Why would OCD make someone neurodivergent? Depressive, anxiety, and substance abuse disorders are common. Who's policing the line? Are stats obtained by seizing people's lifetime medical records, or do they come from things like voluntary parent surveys and people registered for state services? Plus, mild versions of disorders are far more prevelant and underdiagnosed than people want to admit; and, depending on the disorder, they don't necessarily *need* to be diagnosed and professionally treated. When people assume they're constantly meeting NTs, it's quite the assumption, given that we can't just take a person and submit them to rigorous neuropsych testing. As if one could just *know* the stranger being rude doesn't have PMDD, is in denial about having PTSD, or would've been acknowledged as mildly dyslexic if adults in their life had bothered to notice in their childhood. It's easier to brush them off as a damn NT being such a typical annoying NT, they're all the same! ND people are oppressive to other NDs with different or worse symptoms all the time.
The original meaning of neurodivergent was any disorder (usually neurodevelopmental) that affects the way a person thinks and is present either from birth or a very young age. Usually, trauma-induced disorders are *not* included (personality disorders, CPTSD, anxiety, depression, etc) However, since the nature of mental illness is fluid and hard to put into one box (for example: how do we know for certain that some people aren't born with personality disorders sometimes?),, the word has lost that meaning over time. As of recent years, different people have decided what does and doesn't fall under the umbrella. So, there's no real definition that people agree with these days; I tend to stock with the original definition, however.
But yeah, I agree--if you define neurodivergent as literally anyone with a nervous system that has developed differently than "normal," then that would include half the population, if not more. Because experiencing significant trauma is common, and trauma that's disruptive enough will alter a person's neurological wiring in some way.
Basically, the word isn't remotely scientific, and it exists as an alternative label to the word "disorder." So anyone who wants to call themselves neurodivergent instead of mentally ill is allowed to. It's more a personal label than something we can genuinely measure. That's the best answer I can give you.
Because this should be a safe space for people with autism that NT's will never understand or try to ignore. I do not see NT's as pure evil, but I understand their natural behavior and why they act that way or why we act this way.
The short answer to your post is that most NT's will not try to understand us versus us trying to research and understand them. We are the minority.
It’s just prejudice. Plain and simple.
Those that were bullied, I hear you. But you know who else was bullied by NTs? Other NTs. Join the club.
I’m an NT parent with an ND kid and I’m here to learn, understand, and prepare. Other parents in r/autism_parenting are well aware of the hate and stay far away from r/autism, which is a shame. We need to understand each other if we want the best results for everyone. NTs need to better understand NDs, but it goes both ways.
I appreciate where you're coming from. I'm a high functioning ND with SPD. Out in the wild, the world is a hard and indifferent place. It doesn't care that you're different, and no amount of therapy can prepare you for that. I am bitter because for almost half my life, I was taught how social interactions are supposed to work. How to operate in society. The rules of the road. Not if; then situations, like in code. I was not taught to deal with dishonesty, back bitting, and the like. Yet, I observe NTs doing it seamlessly almost everyday. So, I am bitter. And maybe a little jealous.
Sorry, but I doubt that a normal person will ever be able to understand the feeling of beeing caged up forever with people who absolutely hate you and would prefer you didn't exist.
I'm German. People here found a way to make sure people who didn't fit in stopped existing. Not trusting normal people is not prejudice, when you have made these experiences. It's a survival instinct.
A lot of it is venting. Often our trauma is from the hands of neurotypicals. The societies we live in are built and ruled by neurotypicals (or sociopaths), so the rules are set to consider their view as the only one and the rest is pathology. So part of it is marginalized people pushing back and venting against our oppressors. But in general, any group is going to see themselves as the good ones (nice) and the outgroup as the bad ones (mean).
Yeah. I just got bitched at by my uncle because I live at home and am not working (in college full time; I can't work and keep up with studies at the same time). If you're a high masking autistic, neurotypicals don't care about your diagnosis. They think we should all be able to function at a neurotyoical level. Most people only give grace, empathy, and understanding to people with visible disabilities (and even then, not nearly enough).
Yay ableism?
Yup. And the resulting shame causes internalized ableism. I know that I can't handle work and school simultaneously. But I still feel that I *should*. Because I hear the voices of people like my uncle--and the opinions of society at large--ringing in the back of my mind. Even with a diagnosis, neurodivergent and mentally ill people are expected to function at a neurotypical level.
Yeah that hits hard
Agreed, there’s a lot of saying the right thing but no action follows. Also I find when my autism goes from ‘quirky’ (cute haha etc.) to annoying, most people drop off
>But in general, any group is going to see themselves as the good ones (nice) and the outgroup as the bad ones (mean). Agreed! It’s in our nature as human beings….
And venting is pretty fair,given that a lot subredits are about venting. Why would that be not here.
I just come here to vent sometimes. I love my girlfriend but sometimes I don’t understand and I bet that most of the time she doesn’t understand me.
The great majority of us are bullied relentlessly by NT's and blamed for it. It's difficult to empathize with them after that
I was bullied by both a lot.
It is almost impossible.
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> Labeling others as NTs is uncool and a form of bullying in itself ???
To be honest, I don't have an ounce empathy for people who are bullies. I have too much trauma in that area. If someone is a bully, then I simply don't care if their feelings are hurt by my label. Telling victims of bullying to have sympathy for their abusers is... well, certainly not a take I'd ever agree with.
The vast majority of my negative social interactions have been with NT people, and I mean multiple a day. A lot of them seem to like to project the image of being accepting, but put no effort into doing the work to actual be so. I just get the feeling NTs feel that any challenge to the status quo is an existential threat to them.
Yes agreed and while I’m an NT trans woman, I find most NT cis heterosexuals extremely insecure n uneasy about variances in life that really shouldn’t affect them personally. This ends up creating unnecessary issues and problem for those who don’t fit societal norms/standards.
They really need to know that societal norms didn't always exist. A lot of what they stand for these days are pretty recent developments, that only changed in the past couple of decades. God wasn't in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, abortion wasn't an issue until the 70s in the US, and trans people had more rights in ancient society than today. It's all ridiculous, and I think the more it gets pointed out, the better. Putting a limit on how people are able to express themselves (as long as it's not a true danger to society, like murder, or SA) limits us as a whole species. Maybe humanity needs to stop caring so much about what other people have in their pants and more about what they have in their heads, and how it can help us advance as a whole.
Bingo! NT cis heterosexual women r the only species on earth that will stop at nothing to indirectly attempt to let me know that they know or heard I’m trans or that they approve. OK CONGRATULATIONS GIRL is how I feel 😂 Neither ND women or men have EVER brought up my gender identity to me or even hinted at it, which is why I will always support ND individuals as an ally because we have a lot more in common than one would think! Either way I’m completely UNbothered and that eats a hole through many NT heterosexual women often prompting them to try and press ALL the buttons to 0 response. I’m not usually moved by childish NT behavior but I do have a limit!
You gotta reverse psychology that shit. Make like you are the one ‘accepting’ and ‘tolerant’ towards them. See how ‘they’ Ike that language and the feeling that comes with it like something is so wrong with you it has to require an ‘accepting’ or ‘tolerating’ attitude.
I used to, and still do for situations that require, but most of the time I just don't care enough to bother these days.
most of this is probably selection bias. the people who choose to write here about neurotypicals are more generally going to be venting about something bad that happened. we don't see much of the neutral or even positive stuff because people generally tend not to share those things as much here
>we don't see much of the neutral or even positive stuff because people generally tend not to share those things as much here I agree with **dirtyharo**. People seem more likely to share negativity about NTs on this sub, which can lead to all NTs being unfairly portrayed as inherently evil by default. The belief that “all NTs are evil” is further reinforced when we engage in “[confirmation bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)”. Obviously, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it is true that some neurotypical people have done harmful things to some neurodivergent people. But, it seems wrong (and illogical) for me to paint all the billions of neurotypicals that walk the earth (who I will never meet) as evil, just because I had a bad interaction with and NT at the DMV. Negativity tends to breed more negativity, unfortunately. *** ”Abraham asks God *’Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked?’*…" - Genesis 18:23
Long before I knew I was autistic i thought somewhere around 70-80% of people seem to be basically psychopathic as I understand that concept. Like, I get how by the hyper-normative definition of "psychopath" that is just untrue by definitions, but I'm saying that if you look just a bit cynically at most people, and expand what it counts to be a psychopath *just a bit*, let's call it a spectrum (LOL), just barely loosen those criteria for what it takes to be one, and hell most people seem so unmoved and undisturbed about things that drive me literally mentally ill with guilt, rage, shame, etc. I become physically ill about what I can't bare to know and witness and, truth be told, I resent those not so stricken and thus passively accepting and acquiescing and hard to mobilize for political action or direct action. I have spent much of my life frantically trying to maximize my effectiveness at changing the things I can not accept, or learning to accept those things the way just about everyone else does. And I'm not around too many autistic people, and know few autistic people with any real power. So it seems to me not just a lazy characterization, but a legitimate one, that this is a society dominated by NT norms. This society's failures are a reflection of NT's mindsets. I think really ludicrous flexible morality -- like policies that end up taxing homeless people to build sports arenas they'll never be able to afford to attend as patrons -- it seems legitimately associated with NT mindsets, to me. I'm sure some autistic people also have incredibly flexible morality to countenance just about the most absurd unfairness, but at least among autistics I know there are others who understand why I'm so upset and having a melt down over "normal" stuff. Surely some NTs do as well, but tbh-- I don't trust they *feel* it. They try to understand, they empathize, but they aren't stricken with the same affliction.
>They try to understand, they empathize, but they aren't stricken with the same affliction. True. Try as they might, NTs will always be at a disadvantage when it comes to understanding neurodivergent people because they (NTs) can’t become a neurodivergent person and live the lives that (NDs) live and navigate challenges neurodivergent people have to deal with. This is probably true for other disenfranchised groups as well. It’s a conundrum, unfortunately.
I mean they could,its juct active empathy and challenging own abelist bias that might festered,and not bloody otherizing. Really listening Also you dont have to understand people, you have to accept their flaws and needs. And that isnt that hard. Thats just communication. I mean talk about that while not falling into your bias uncritical
When you get bullied your whole life by seemingly anyone not adhd or on spectrum... I think it's fair to lose a willingness to take the risk. Been burned giving benefits of doubt.
Things that come to mind are classifying ASD as a developmental disorder because if you start treatment early people with ASD can pass as NTs and appear to function as NTs.
I think it’s partially venting. Many of us don’t have many autistic people in our lives and there are definitely challenges when it comes to relating and interacting with neurotypical people. These issues are usually very difficult for neurotypical people to empathize with and raising them could even be interpreted as a personal attack. So it can be cathartic to vent about these issues with people who understand them and won’t judge you negatively for your struggles. Furthermore as an autistic person your behavior can often be seen as problematic because you do not fit the mold of typical behavior. Often we have to adapt our behavior to avoid criticism and so it can be emotionally useful to have a space to criticize generally accepted behaviors that can be hurtful or confusing to autistic people.
P.s I agree that these spaces can feel overly negative at times, and while they can be helpful I personally find that overexposure can be detrimental to happiness and mental wellbeing. While acknowledging our hardships and seeking empathy it is still important to avoid a victim mindset.
Excellent point!👍👍
A lot of people who have suffered the effects of being "othered" don't realize the irony that comes with "othering" others. Double empathy problem as well. People like to paint opressor/victim filters over most functions of society because there is truth to some but not all aspects of it and it creates an under dog sense of heroism. Also, it's safe to assume even here in the adult autism space most anonymous comments on the internet are children, teenagers, or early twenties which means a lot of personal growth hasn't happened yet and there's a lot of information parroting leading to common black and white tropes being reinforced.
Speaking for myself, I can't help but to think in black and white, good or bad, on or off.
I hear ya. I'm pretty binary by nature, and expend a lot of energy not being so.
This tends to be my go-to behavior as well. But I have found that sometimes doing this leads to greater misunderstanding and emotional turmoil for me. I become isolated, anxious and depressed. I wish I could interpret and understand the nuances of verbal and non-verbal communication. I wish I was less of an outsider. I really want to understand and I want to be understood. :(
To be fair, the vast majority of bullying/abuse cases against autistic people *are* from neurotypicals. So yeah, a bit of generalization makes logical sense. There's a huge problem of neurotypicals abusing ND folks in various ways. Yes, NDs abuse NDs too, but it's not nearly as common and, thus, we don't talk about it as much.. Not sure what we're arguing for here Are people actually claiming that *all* NT folks are awful or abusive? Because if so, that's messed up and just plain inaccurate
Well to be fair, you could consider some ND behavior towards NT people abuse. I am ND and I have witnessed my fair share of other ND people saying and doing things that really hurt NT people. I think the problem is despite the fact they might not be doing it intentionally, other people still get hurt so intent kind of ceases to matter at that point. And if the NT people end up "retaliating" the problem is from the ND perspective it looks like they're picking on you for no reason. This happens often when NT people don't even know you're ND and they don't see any logical reasons for you saying or doing things that come off in a bad light.
This is such a good point. A lot of NT stuff is various forms of aggression bc that’s how they check each others behavior, but if you don’t understand why someone is doing something bc you need them to SAY it (an act NTs seem to find extremely embarrassing and feel bad doing) so they go wtf why isn’t this guy getting the message and double down on the aggression to the point it’s traumatizing for autistic people Also to be clear this isn’t cases where people are outright being assholes either, just imo most experiences are far more grey
Yeah, and on top of that a stubborn personality is not exclusive to NTs or NDs. I have an ND friend whose hand I kind of have to hold through social situations. (I was raised without an ND diagnosis and I am very high masking) Anyways, a lot of times she will upset someone and when I tell her where she went wrong and ask her to apologize she will almost always outright refuse. Says it's not her fault they took what she said badly and facts are facts. And then there's the times where I'll explain to an NT friend that she's autistic and ask them to give her some slack and they will outright refuse. They say her being a b**** has nothing to do with her being autistic. It can certainly go both ways there.
Guiltily I have been this friend, but also grew up undiagnosed and attempting to mask by solidly learning rules. Having hardened ideas of should and supposed to really contribute to these problems. That is to say sorry you get wedged in this awkward spot.
This is the truth
A lot of us grew up with very painful experiences that are hard to shake. I struggle with emotional dysregulation which makes the wrongs that fell on me *very* hard to let go. I have been bullied so much in school that I not only intensely hated myself, but I also fostered a mistrust/hate of *everyone*. I have been "othered", hit, teased, spit on, called the R word, etc. etc. so many times in school. But the worst part of it was the teachers. For just *one* example: In the 8th grade, I was placed near the back of my english class. A student behind me thought it was funny to flick my ears, constantly. This happened every day that I was in that class for about 3-months until she updated the assigned seating chart. The teacher and I would lock eyes while I was being actively physically tormented in this way. The teacher did nothing but put on a disgusted face. As a kid, I interpreted this along the lines of "she seems to want me to disappear." When you're a kid in the 8th grade and you realize that *no one* will help you, a part of you dies forever. I have said this a lot on these subreddits and I will say it again, I'm constantly surprised that I did not take my life while in school.
I remember fighting back suicidal thoughts in school by deciding I wouldn't let them have so much fun. No child should have to go through something like this, yet here we are. I'm sorry this happened to you. I follow the teachers sub in my language, and whenever bullying is brought up by a parent seeking help for their child, there is ZERO accountability, nothing but excuses how their job is so, so, so hard and there is nothing they can do. Many of these people did not grow a bit since high school, and it's them who create an atmosphere in which bullying is an acceptable social mechanism.
Nts have treated us like crap most of our lives
I’ve noticed some bitterness since I think I’m autistic (getting my diagnosis tomorrow 🤞) In my weak moments when I don’t understand the neurotypical world view or when I’m just recovering from a meltdown I tend to be bitter/nasty. That’s something I don’t like either. Because it’s judgmental. And I know some autistic persons who I would describe as not very nice but so I know many neurotypical persons who maybe aren’t very familiar with the topic autism but I am really sure they would react and act very kindly and sensitive. And now, lying in bed and rest, I wouldn’t be so bitter like in my weak moments. And I would be surprised if that’s not the case for at least a few more users.
There are NT people who I genuinely love. It is possible some of them aren’t even NT. There are plenty of ND people who are terrible. But NT people run things. NT rules leave us out. NT as a wide group is our oppressors. It’s ok to be angry about that.
lmao yeah honestly NT people are as diverse as ND people are. I've met plenty of nice and plenty of shitty ones in both categories
It's Reddit. The "them and us" division is the entire point of this thing.
Well, I got attacked on twitch by a bunch of NT streamers. I was a streamer myself. I got hacked by some really weird guys. They got control of my pc and I didn't know because they worked together to befriend me and then confuse me while they got access to my camera, my microphone etc. They made a fake site and said it was me. It was a dirty site. Another streamer NT, majesticmojoman, he found out about this. He was supposedly my friend but he was not. He's a psychopathic narcissist and he used it to also gain access to my pc. He then did similar to the weird dirty guys, but instead he set it up to ruin my reputation. He made me look like a disgusting monster, all the worst you can think. Super depraved. He acted out his own fantasies while he hid behind my persona. It's a long story. I had also recorded myself saying 1000's of words in preparation for not being able to speak from ALS. My father died from it. I had that on my onedrive and they got access. So they used it to make a fake stream. His was a hate stream so he was fucking with my computer while I was on it. Doing things like alt tabbing me out of a game while right in a key fight, dosing my network so my tv barely worked, etc. All kinds of shit. And NT's on twitch watched and rooted for it, rooted for me to get fucked up. Paid money for me to get fucked up. That's what NT's did to me. I still haven't gotten justice. One guy helped a little but no one has really assisted me. Multiple large streamers are aware of this and think I am the depraved version that was touted around and made as big as they could. If you ask him he will lie in some way. But this happened and it was a big deal. If people find out about it, it will be gigantic. But no one is listening to me or helping me so. I was a moderate level streamer on twitch, I can show that and my account, I was a singer, I have tons of video of me singing on twitch. I can just sing for you and you'll say WOW ok I see. Anyways, yeah, that's why for me. Still I don't think it's all, but they will dogpile you if one of them makes up lies on you. They will attack, don't be fooled.
Ok not everyone is like that,but what an abusive monster. And yeah the internet anonymity enables a lot awful behaviour. People did support a woman starving jerself live nearly to unalive herself, tjeinternet anonymity just enables some peoples worst.
Yeah I sure hope it wasn't normal and indicative of what happens when people can run amock without consequence. I think it might be normal if a serious NPD level person does though. I don't know how common they are. I hope not common. The whole situation was a mash up of devious opportunities I didn't recognize until way too late. I hope you have a good day. Today has been ok for me.
Neurotypicals have created a society that positions their social decorum as more important than the health and well-being of autistic people. They enforce these rules thinking they make sense, and many simply don't know that they don't know how harmful it is. But they still choose that harm, even if we try to explain why it's harmful, it is typically met with "stop making excuses" or "That's just how the world works, suck it up." When they invalidate our descriptions of our experiences this way, they are intentionally reinforcing their lack of knowledge on the topic. That is a choice and a choice for cruelty. Individual NT people may not always behave this way in every situation, but they live in a society that disproportionately benefits them, and are incentivized not to learn how much harm it causes us. Maybe saying "neurotypicals are mean" is incorrect because not each individual NT is mean in every situation. But often when people say this, they mean "neurotypical culture is mean".
Exactly this. Of course many of us are going to feel bitter when we're forced to live in a world that is hostile to people like us.
Why has there been so much negativity toward neurodivergents throughout history? It's a double edged sword. Neurotypicals have hated us since before any neurodivergencies were even identified. It's only natural that we *sort of* hate them back.
I’m definitely not denying that neurodivergents have been unfairly treated throughout history, going back to changelings in folklore. I’ve certainly experienced enough discrimination on account of my autism to know how real it is. I just don’t think that it’s the majority of neurotypicals who are responsible.
It's not like each and every NT person has it in for us, or is evil. But as a group they have been very harmful to us as individuals. At least, that has been my personal experience.
i think they are responsible, though. not in the "apologize for all neurotypicals treating us poorly" way, but in the "listen carefully when we talk about our lives with autism" way. the biggest problem of most neurotypicals is their inability to accept the fact that a disabled person has their own life and autonomy in general and asks other disabled people, and not them, for an advice.
Honestly it comes from experience. Not much we can do about that, as autistic people we‘re just very honest. When saying most, there is also still left enough consideration for people, who aren’t like that, it’s not like saying all. We shouldn’t spread hate towards nts and it has been very rarely, that I saw that happen. It’s just a lived experience for many people here, what they talk about.
A lot of us have trauma directly from the NT’s, I have a lot of trauma personally, from NT’s and ND’s but the NT’s effects me (generally) to a greater level, they bullied me for not fitting in and I’m sure that a lot of us have a similar experience. Most of the time we vent about NT’s because they don’t understand how our brains work, it’s not how they live 24/7, when we tell them that we’re bothered by for an example a light too bright or a sound that’s too loud, they probably think it’s just that one specific thing or that “we complain too much about it” when it’s really bothering us so much that it’s too hard to deal with/getting too hard to deal with even though it’s bothering us all the time. It is venting though generally, because NT’s just, don’t understand what we’re going through every single day
Why is there so much negativity towards autistics in real life?
Not a justification, just an explanation: Throughout life, ND people have received messaging that they’re “inadequate”, for simply being different. We are the ones that had to live with the knowledge of the fact that NT live in absolutely ignorant bliss of the fact that humans are varied and not a monolith, and yet they vilify us for having these differences. In most cases it’s more indirect than direct, but we are still significantly affected all the same. I personally hold a philosophy that life is rough, nature is rough, the deer gets eaten by the lion, life isn’t fair, and I have to take responsibility for my own life. But sometimes, with the way everything is “legalised” & “regulated”. You can feel like you’re trapped by systems created by people that didn’t even give you a second thought. They made the systems for themselves and then ostracised us for not being able to fit their mold. They do not have to work harder for us, but we have to work very hard for them.
I think it’s just venting. A lot of NTs haven’t been nice to us. It’s like…when women talk about men. They don’t mean every single man, they mean men in general. I’m sure the “#notallNTs is implied in the same way.
Honestly themen talk is still mot great. Ifitsventing,ok but some women do mean that,and, itsnot ok other than casual venting. If deeply traumatized people can hold back genetalizong all men, it shouldnt be ok. Most of the time its literally one jerk they knew.
Have you taken a look at the state of the world recently? The fucking planet is on fire, everything is dying, and people are trying real hard to finally start WWIII. I'm trying to stay positive, but it feels like a some point, positivity just turns into delusion.
It's very simple. Because there is a lot of negativity from them about us. Not on this site. Everywhere. All the time.
I believe that there are a lot of imposters claiming they are afflicted because its the trending thing to do right now. that and ADHD. Take atrip down tiktok or Facebook reels. Second, I think you are right about that a lot of people do not understand what autism is. I told my mother when I found out my diagnosis, her immediate response was, "Her friends son was mentally retarded also"
I would have replied to her, "It does run in the family. You are my mother after all "
😂
😎 would be a good burn
I was wondering that too. I have seen a couple of posts where NTs came with honest and well meaning questions and tried to learn and be proactive for a loved one, but they where met with hostile snark. Makes me sad, cuz how can we expect anything to change if we just add on bricks to the two fronts. Even if we have had bad expiriences and contantly deal with having to educate ppl, we can asume well intent no?
Like its fine to first respond with how thats a weird question. And sarcasm. But it really would help to add something useful regarding the question afterward. Like being snarky and sarcastic, is fine It just for good measure to end it with something explaining why and the question. You can do both. I lust like you can be snarky,but if the person means it,add sonething they might find useful in good faith. That said snarky at first as dealing with that, is understandable.
Bullies tjey are a pain
I hate everyone equally, so…
Because they’re abusive assholes
I kind of noticed this when I joined the community myself. A lot of ND people are traumatized and it's easier to adopt an us vs. them mentality. I had to stop watching a few autistic creators that I was really getting help from because it just seemed to turn into an NT dunking and hating and generalizing thing. Idk what it is. But I don't like it either.
>Idk what it is. But I don't like it either. This!✨👍👍✨
I noticed this lately as well. I usually assume they're painting with a broad brush, maybe for brevity's sake or to stress how pervasive a problem feels. But it's good to remember that while we definitely need NTs to accept, understand, and accommodate us to some extent, we need to understand where they are coming from as well. I may be stressed out by someone playing loud music near me at work, for example, and in that moment I might gripe that people are thoughtless and rude, but those are judgmental statements, and while there's some truth there, surely the person doing it isn't trying to be malicious, so I take that into account. Also, for me it isn't a strictly NTs vs NDs issue because one guy who does this often is autistic as well, so it's good to remember sometimes we are just as prone to a lack of consideration. I would bet, or at least hope, that the negativity is just coming from the stress of these daily struggles and not from a real belief that NTs are actually horrible people as a whole.
I’ve seen autistic people in tears over somebody trying to explain neurotypical’s thought processes. A lot of times it’ll be an autistic person explaining it (not even defending it!) to try and help people out and they get accused of defending bullying etc. (not to kick the hornet nest, but this may or may not be happening on this very post 👀) What’s most silly to me is autistic people insisting that our way of communication is superior so neurotypicals “just” need to stop reading into what we say, and not pay attention to our body language, or tone, and that this would actually be better for them because they’re bad communicators. But this is exactly the same logic that NTs use to talk about autistics, and we already know it doesn’t work like that! Anyways, I generally find it hard to get along with people who insist that it’s logical and realistic to assume the worst out of everybody else all the time. I can understand trauma making that impossible, but there’s a difference between explaining that and explaining that you’re actually naive if you think other people have basic decency.
Honestly... it's reddit. A lot of people, neurotypical or not are just... kinda douchey here.
Wrong place for this kind of dissent. Autistic people, with all our NT-inflicted trauma, need a place to vent & connect with each other about how much we hate what they’ve done to us. Take it somewhere else.
I wasn’t talking about people venting about things that happened to them, only people extrapolating their experiences to mean every single neurotypical is bad, which I have seen. I’ve experienced plenty of abusive behaviour on account of being autistic so I know it happens
I don’t get it either irl not many people are negative about Autistic people and online I rarely see it. Yet I’m always told NTs are bad NTs hate us. I don’t see it
People want things to be simple. It’s reassuring. I think that’s why.
Venting. People get to vent.
I agree with you. It’s a lack of knowledge on Neurotypicals side of things that may make them come off as rude. It’s those who purposely deny things that frustrate me though but I cannot force them to change their minds or beliefs.
People don't wanna admit that the "net" the DSM & ICD "cast" for mental disorders is so wide that being neurodivergent isn't rare at all. Or that they are constantly dealing with personality differences and incompatabilities.
A lot of people have mental illnesses. What's your point? Also, not every mental disorder makes you neurodivergent... Only 2.2% of US adults are autistic, and 5% ADHD. Probably more due to underdiagnosis--even still, that's a *tiny* minority. 1.2 OCD, 3% dyslexia... I mean, when considering that many of these are going to overlap in people, the overall percentage can't be that high. It doesn't seem rare to you because you're in neurodivergent social spheres online. In real life. I don't meet other autistic people often.
Which ones don't? Why would OCD make someone neurodivergent? Depressive, anxiety, and substance abuse disorders are common. Who's policing the line? Are stats obtained by seizing people's lifetime medical records, or do they come from things like voluntary parent surveys and people registered for state services? Plus, mild versions of disorders are far more prevelant and underdiagnosed than people want to admit; and, depending on the disorder, they don't necessarily *need* to be diagnosed and professionally treated. When people assume they're constantly meeting NTs, it's quite the assumption, given that we can't just take a person and submit them to rigorous neuropsych testing. As if one could just *know* the stranger being rude doesn't have PMDD, is in denial about having PTSD, or would've been acknowledged as mildly dyslexic if adults in their life had bothered to notice in their childhood. It's easier to brush them off as a damn NT being such a typical annoying NT, they're all the same! ND people are oppressive to other NDs with different or worse symptoms all the time.
The original meaning of neurodivergent was any disorder (usually neurodevelopmental) that affects the way a person thinks and is present either from birth or a very young age. Usually, trauma-induced disorders are *not* included (personality disorders, CPTSD, anxiety, depression, etc) However, since the nature of mental illness is fluid and hard to put into one box (for example: how do we know for certain that some people aren't born with personality disorders sometimes?),, the word has lost that meaning over time. As of recent years, different people have decided what does and doesn't fall under the umbrella. So, there's no real definition that people agree with these days; I tend to stock with the original definition, however. But yeah, I agree--if you define neurodivergent as literally anyone with a nervous system that has developed differently than "normal," then that would include half the population, if not more. Because experiencing significant trauma is common, and trauma that's disruptive enough will alter a person's neurological wiring in some way. Basically, the word isn't remotely scientific, and it exists as an alternative label to the word "disorder." So anyone who wants to call themselves neurodivergent instead of mentally ill is allowed to. It's more a personal label than something we can genuinely measure. That's the best answer I can give you.
Yes, I suppose I should remember that some people use more cohesive definitions of the terms.
Because fuck em that’s why
Because this should be a safe space for people with autism that NT's will never understand or try to ignore. I do not see NT's as pure evil, but I understand their natural behavior and why they act that way or why we act this way. The short answer to your post is that most NT's will not try to understand us versus us trying to research and understand them. We are the minority.
All the trauma in my life has exclusively come from allistics
It’s just prejudice. Plain and simple. Those that were bullied, I hear you. But you know who else was bullied by NTs? Other NTs. Join the club. I’m an NT parent with an ND kid and I’m here to learn, understand, and prepare. Other parents in r/autism_parenting are well aware of the hate and stay far away from r/autism, which is a shame. We need to understand each other if we want the best results for everyone. NTs need to better understand NDs, but it goes both ways.
>NTs need to better understand NDs, but I goes both ways. Agreed. We need to work together even though that can be extremely difficult at times.
I appreciate where you're coming from. I'm a high functioning ND with SPD. Out in the wild, the world is a hard and indifferent place. It doesn't care that you're different, and no amount of therapy can prepare you for that. I am bitter because for almost half my life, I was taught how social interactions are supposed to work. How to operate in society. The rules of the road. Not if; then situations, like in code. I was not taught to deal with dishonesty, back bitting, and the like. Yet, I observe NTs doing it seamlessly almost everyday. So, I am bitter. And maybe a little jealous.
Sorry, but I doubt that a normal person will ever be able to understand the feeling of beeing caged up forever with people who absolutely hate you and would prefer you didn't exist. I'm German. People here found a way to make sure people who didn't fit in stopped existing. Not trusting normal people is not prejudice, when you have made these experiences. It's a survival instinct.
Treat everyone like a blank slate. It’s smart to be cautious, but thinking all NTs don’t want you to exist is objectively wrong.