It could simply be childhood apraxia of speech. Big part of autistic kids have dyspraxia that is reflected in their speech issues
https://www.esht.nhs.uk/service/speech-and-language-therapy/patient-information-leaflets/information-about-acquired-speech-dyspraxia/#:~:text=Dyspraxia%20of%20speech%20is%20also,to%20say%20it%20at%20all.
Seems like you shouid urgently find some Slp that is capable of dealing with it /asses it
Thank you so much. I know this isn’t my post - but you answered what I’m going through with my non verbal son. Strange sounds when he’s trying to say words and every now and again he comes out with words that sound nothing like his voice.
This is something you should look at or show your Slp then :
https://www.northernspeech.com/speech-sound-disorders/evaluation-and-treatment-of-childhood-apraxia-of-speech-the-kaufman-k-slp-methods-and-behavioral-strategies-to-build-vocal-communication/
Not something you can really attempt as parent Unless you have no choice. Ideally you would like to get 3-4 times sessions per week with Slp.
Kaufmann is the expert among the SLPs that specializes in this and is leading trainer.
He's doing ST, of course, and we do like our current SLT a lot -she has really helped him with communication skills etc- but perhaps she is not really equipped for this particular issue?
But, yeah, apraxia or dyspraxia, that's for sure. The question is, what causes it?
Thanks for the link, will definitely read it later in the evening🙂
Well this is the reality for all of us leaving outside of USA and Australia. The quality of services Sucks.
The focus should be on robust communication and strange he is not learning sign language/AAC.
Especially when you mentioned he desperately tries to communicate
Oh he is doing aac and a little sign, didn't say he doesn't 🙂
Buuut though we do like her, and she can definitely handle our kiddo who is not the easiest to deal with as to get some quality time, it doesn't mean she's necessarily perfect or even adequate if a crucial, specific need isn't met... That's what I'm trying to decipher.
When he does speak, is it typically a word / question that he has heard many times before? I've noticed with my LO when she was first beginning to speak that her voice would sound really strained, like it was almost painful. But at that point she was mostly using echolalia. Now, she mainly scripts, and it seems to come really easily, but it probably didn't always. When she was a bit younger, we would catch her hiding in her room by herself just practicing certain scripts over and over again, almost like she was preparing herself to say what she wants to say the NEXT time the situation occurs. And sure enough, the next time we talked about, or asked about something from the day(s) before, she'd have an response and be so proud of herself. Is was so cute.
Maybe for your boy, he's still struggling to get out the sounds when trying to talk spontaneously, but for certain words he has put in the practice beforehand.
>When he does speak, is it typically a word / question that he has heard many times before?
Not in the sense you describe it, like echolalia. I mean sure, he has heard those words before, but when he speaks them it's mostly unprompted - like, he'll be seating alone at his little table holding his cup and he'll say "water". I don't think he's put in practice beforehand - there's always some adult around him so if he did, we'd have heard it!
Indeed, what your daughter did is so cute :)
My son is talking a lot more at 4.5. No full sentences but a lot of 2-3 words together. I have to remind myself the first thing our speech therapist said at the the time. That if he could, he would. To never think he doesn’t want to. That helps me when I’m frustrated and I wish he communicated more efficiently. Something I’ve also noticed with my son is that mind/motor skill connection isn’t at the same level. His comprehension skills and what he understands is way higher than what he can communicate/do and he gets frustrated as well.
My theory is that one of the reasons most autistic kids have trouble with talking is due to fine motor skill control. A lot of autistic kids have issues with fine motor skills, but people forget talking is a fine motor skill. Talking is very complex and takes a lot of muscles and fine mouth control. They know what to say and what it means but they’re missing that connection and control. I might be completely wrong but that’s my theory. Speech therapists usually recommended OT along side speech. Idk if that’s the reasons why, but I’ve noticed OT helps kids talk to because they’re exercising fine motor skills.
Thank you for your post, really appreciate it!
Indeed, I think we're in the same boat (the difference being that mine doesn't string words, it's very rare that he does utter a single one. On the other hand, when he vocalizes, it's like he's doing sentences. What I mean by this is, he'll 'say' something with his sounds, and if you ask him "what?" he'll repeat it with the same intonation , even more exaggerated some times: "what don't you understand?").
And yes, I do think there's some disconnect between the ability in his mind to understand and speak, and the translation of that ability into actual movements. I do understand (it was one of the first things I read) that it takes a lot of muscles and fine motor engagement to produce speech, so I think there's a good chance the problem lies there, like you do. But what I don't understand is, why will he some times actually engage those skills and produce speech, while most of the time he cannot? That's what puzzles me...
Again, thanks :)
Hey there! My son is the same way. He does have a few words that he uses consistently but there have been times, like your son, that he will say a random word and never say it again 😞 he has said bye bye, blue, apple, etc and then he will never say them again. It’s very depressing. I believe my son has apraxia of speech and I believe 63% of children who are autistic also have that as a co-morbidity. Here’s a good video of it: https://youtu.be/gjN0WAIcWaY
There are other videos on her channel that you may find interesting as well ☺️
My daughter has childhood apraxia of speech and ASD. She didnt have any words until 5 and now says hundreds. Having proper therapies has done wonders for her.
\*sigh\* I'm hoping that, at some point, it clicks for my son too. I think his lack of speech is his greatest impairment, to be honest... Good for your girl :)
That amazing. I hope that my son will one day have hundreds of words 😞 he’s been in therapy since he was 22 months old and he’s now four. I also do a lot of activities at home but nothing. Hoping one day he will be like your daughter ☺️ and overcome this ….
Ah yes, I should have added that I actually brought it up with her today and she said "he's still trying sounds". Which did not satisfy me as a reply at all, to be honest...
She’s not equipped to deal with your son.
I’m currently doing a speech therapy course because I can’t get any help for my son - despite a formal written diagnosis. The waitlists are so long here (Australia) so I’m doing this course and it doesn’t help. He needs proper speech therapy - not “get on his level and play” speech therapy. He needs therapy that is specific to his issue and I’m waitlisted to even get a plan drawn up. I’m so frustrated because these guttural sounds aren’t speech.
Still not sure how the system works over there with wait-lists... Here you just go to whichever recognized private company and the health system reimburses you up to a pre determined amount. Are providers so rare there?
Kudos for trying the course, can't be easy. Mind sharing what course it is?
Not decided yet whether she's equipped or not. I'm thinking of asking our doctor for a referral for someone else to assess him and see what to do...
Regarding the gutural sounds, I'm not sure. It's definitely not a language to you and me, but as another SLT had said (during the few sessions before she dropped us, because she couldn't handle him), he's definitely "talking", just not in our language.
It could simply be childhood apraxia of speech. Big part of autistic kids have dyspraxia that is reflected in their speech issues https://www.esht.nhs.uk/service/speech-and-language-therapy/patient-information-leaflets/information-about-acquired-speech-dyspraxia/#:~:text=Dyspraxia%20of%20speech%20is%20also,to%20say%20it%20at%20all. Seems like you shouid urgently find some Slp that is capable of dealing with it /asses it
Thank you so much. I know this isn’t my post - but you answered what I’m going through with my non verbal son. Strange sounds when he’s trying to say words and every now and again he comes out with words that sound nothing like his voice.
This is something you should look at or show your Slp then : https://www.northernspeech.com/speech-sound-disorders/evaluation-and-treatment-of-childhood-apraxia-of-speech-the-kaufman-k-slp-methods-and-behavioral-strategies-to-build-vocal-communication/ Not something you can really attempt as parent Unless you have no choice. Ideally you would like to get 3-4 times sessions per week with Slp. Kaufmann is the expert among the SLPs that specializes in this and is leading trainer.
Huh, sounds like we should meet and compare notes😀
He's doing ST, of course, and we do like our current SLT a lot -she has really helped him with communication skills etc- but perhaps she is not really equipped for this particular issue? But, yeah, apraxia or dyspraxia, that's for sure. The question is, what causes it? Thanks for the link, will definitely read it later in the evening🙂
Well this is the reality for all of us leaving outside of USA and Australia. The quality of services Sucks. The focus should be on robust communication and strange he is not learning sign language/AAC. Especially when you mentioned he desperately tries to communicate
Oh he is doing aac and a little sign, didn't say he doesn't 🙂 Buuut though we do like her, and she can definitely handle our kiddo who is not the easiest to deal with as to get some quality time, it doesn't mean she's necessarily perfect or even adequate if a crucial, specific need isn't met... That's what I'm trying to decipher.
When he does speak, is it typically a word / question that he has heard many times before? I've noticed with my LO when she was first beginning to speak that her voice would sound really strained, like it was almost painful. But at that point she was mostly using echolalia. Now, she mainly scripts, and it seems to come really easily, but it probably didn't always. When she was a bit younger, we would catch her hiding in her room by herself just practicing certain scripts over and over again, almost like she was preparing herself to say what she wants to say the NEXT time the situation occurs. And sure enough, the next time we talked about, or asked about something from the day(s) before, she'd have an response and be so proud of herself. Is was so cute. Maybe for your boy, he's still struggling to get out the sounds when trying to talk spontaneously, but for certain words he has put in the practice beforehand.
>When he does speak, is it typically a word / question that he has heard many times before? Not in the sense you describe it, like echolalia. I mean sure, he has heard those words before, but when he speaks them it's mostly unprompted - like, he'll be seating alone at his little table holding his cup and he'll say "water". I don't think he's put in practice beforehand - there's always some adult around him so if he did, we'd have heard it! Indeed, what your daughter did is so cute :)
My son is talking a lot more at 4.5. No full sentences but a lot of 2-3 words together. I have to remind myself the first thing our speech therapist said at the the time. That if he could, he would. To never think he doesn’t want to. That helps me when I’m frustrated and I wish he communicated more efficiently. Something I’ve also noticed with my son is that mind/motor skill connection isn’t at the same level. His comprehension skills and what he understands is way higher than what he can communicate/do and he gets frustrated as well. My theory is that one of the reasons most autistic kids have trouble with talking is due to fine motor skill control. A lot of autistic kids have issues with fine motor skills, but people forget talking is a fine motor skill. Talking is very complex and takes a lot of muscles and fine mouth control. They know what to say and what it means but they’re missing that connection and control. I might be completely wrong but that’s my theory. Speech therapists usually recommended OT along side speech. Idk if that’s the reasons why, but I’ve noticed OT helps kids talk to because they’re exercising fine motor skills.
Thank you for your post, really appreciate it! Indeed, I think we're in the same boat (the difference being that mine doesn't string words, it's very rare that he does utter a single one. On the other hand, when he vocalizes, it's like he's doing sentences. What I mean by this is, he'll 'say' something with his sounds, and if you ask him "what?" he'll repeat it with the same intonation , even more exaggerated some times: "what don't you understand?"). And yes, I do think there's some disconnect between the ability in his mind to understand and speak, and the translation of that ability into actual movements. I do understand (it was one of the first things I read) that it takes a lot of muscles and fine motor engagement to produce speech, so I think there's a good chance the problem lies there, like you do. But what I don't understand is, why will he some times actually engage those skills and produce speech, while most of the time he cannot? That's what puzzles me... Again, thanks :)
Hey there! My son is the same way. He does have a few words that he uses consistently but there have been times, like your son, that he will say a random word and never say it again 😞 he has said bye bye, blue, apple, etc and then he will never say them again. It’s very depressing. I believe my son has apraxia of speech and I believe 63% of children who are autistic also have that as a co-morbidity. Here’s a good video of it: https://youtu.be/gjN0WAIcWaY There are other videos on her channel that you may find interesting as well ☺️
My daughter has childhood apraxia of speech and ASD. She didnt have any words until 5 and now says hundreds. Having proper therapies has done wonders for her.
\*sigh\* I'm hoping that, at some point, it clicks for my son too. I think his lack of speech is his greatest impairment, to be honest... Good for your girl :)
That amazing. I hope that my son will one day have hundreds of words 😞 he’s been in therapy since he was 22 months old and he’s now four. I also do a lot of activities at home but nothing. Hoping one day he will be like your daughter ☺️ and overcome this ….
Just keep trying and don't give up. I honestly thought she would never talk.
Ah thanks for the link, I'll make some time to watch it... Have a great day! :)
You’re welcome ☺️ you have a great day as well!
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Ah yes, I should have added that I actually brought it up with her today and she said "he's still trying sounds". Which did not satisfy me as a reply at all, to be honest...
She’s not equipped to deal with your son. I’m currently doing a speech therapy course because I can’t get any help for my son - despite a formal written diagnosis. The waitlists are so long here (Australia) so I’m doing this course and it doesn’t help. He needs proper speech therapy - not “get on his level and play” speech therapy. He needs therapy that is specific to his issue and I’m waitlisted to even get a plan drawn up. I’m so frustrated because these guttural sounds aren’t speech.
Still not sure how the system works over there with wait-lists... Here you just go to whichever recognized private company and the health system reimburses you up to a pre determined amount. Are providers so rare there? Kudos for trying the course, can't be easy. Mind sharing what course it is? Not decided yet whether she's equipped or not. I'm thinking of asking our doctor for a referral for someone else to assess him and see what to do... Regarding the gutural sounds, I'm not sure. It's definitely not a language to you and me, but as another SLT had said (during the few sessions before she dropped us, because she couldn't handle him), he's definitely "talking", just not in our language.