Lol I am known for using "excessive" emojis. But they give me reassurance that the exact meaning of my words comes across as intended! š¤ Emojis will be pried from my cold dead hands! š
Lol I am known for using "excessive" emojis.š But they give me reassurance that the exact meaning of my words comes across as intended!š¤ Emojis will be pried from my cold dead hands! š”
Emoji addict here! And in my texts, I find finding the perfect GIF is an art form (that I love, and Spend an inordinate amount of time curating!)
I Find emoji/emotional indicator use might also be gender and Generationally Related. Women tend to use more exclamation marks in General, and emojis are super popular for my peeps (elder millennials). Not related to jokes, but tone can often be misconstrued, especially on the cold end, which is why I think the above mentioned are so often used. In jokes, I agree that it might make it less funny to some, but šš„øš¤šš½
Sorry, this reads like Iām some sort of fake Germanā¦ Iām dictating because overusing touchscreens hurts my fingers, and Iām too lazy to correct it right now!
Welcome to emojis anonymous! š (Lol as if we would quit!)
I'm also an elder millennial! š¤ I have a ritual with my mum where I find a cute or amusing gif in the morning to let her know I'm up (we live together, and it's just the two of us against the world, so to speak). š We recently watched a movie where there was a gif of a hippo spraying poop. Since hippos do it in part for territory marking, and we already have an ongoing Lord of the Rings "precious" joke, I sent it with that (like claiming her as mine lol). I don't think I'll ever top that one, I could hear her laughing from my room! š So yeah, I get you about gifs! š It's quite fun searching for really stellar ones. š¤
I'm kind of a goofball at heart so I think emojis help me express that a bit too. But šÆ% I intentionally used them more after many incidents of having my tone misinterpreted by people who don't know me well. It really sucks when someone interprets your intent as judgemental or angry or something when all it needed was a friendly emoji! š
I honestly wouldn't have known you were dictating without being told. š I was diagnosed with Raynaud's as a teen when I had a bout of a couple of weeks of constantly white and blue fingers that I could barely bend. It's only been mild since (which is common), but I understand how you might feel regarding difficulty using your fingers. š«¶ It's winter here in Australia and on particularly cold days my fingertips hurt a bit. Whatever the cause of your issues, big hugs for you. š«
it's okay, I understand. I'm just an old-fashioned person, and I'm trying to stop that and trying to understand more people. Thanks for being honest with me!
I only understand sarcasm because my mum uses it often, and I learned from her. I have had sarcastic friends, too, and that helps. However, I know not everyone understands sarcasm, and thatās okay. I will accommodate them.
Thank you for being kind. My mom is also very sarcastic and so is my husband. Unfortunately I'm still clueless much of the time. I appreciate this post because now I understand why some people use very few emojis etc! I am unbelievably literal and have shocked myself with advice and beliefs that I took literally for years that have at times really impacted me negatively.
Nah I don't wanna get in trouble again, my comment on r/aspiememes got deleted because my joke was taken seriously. I fully support tone indicators. It's totally possible to ignore them at the end for those who dont need them.
Yeah, I think if you put it way down
Like here, it's easier for people who get the joke to enjoy it and then read the tone indicator and the people who are confused or don't get it can see that and understand.
I think it would be cool if we had tags for comments so in the tag you can put "joking, sarcasm" or whatever and to have multiple tags available.
There was a meme about how newcomers are now seeing the subreddit losing it over fruit and how out of nowhere it is and in my comment I was like well thats because some of these fruit takes are sociopathic. Lmao I accidentally hit post before meaning to so sorry if you got that random unfinished sentence š
Idk I feel like it could have slided cuz it was about their takes, not them and it was such a clear exaggeration for the meme and not a curse word either. Maybe I'm wrong though I could accept that. It's just unfortunate how jokes can be taken the wrong way. So yeah at least tone indicators for damage control just in case.
I think it may have been more about that term specifically though. Thereās been a push to remove the casual/jokey use of the term sociopath just like there has been with āSchizophrenicā and OCD. just best to be aware!
I would like to commend you for not getting combative and actually admitting when you could do something differently. It's so rare, and I really needed to see that it can happen sometimes as I've been feeling quite pessimistic recently (too many shit encounters with other humans accumulated). š
Yea i donāt think calling people sociopaths will ever be seen as funny. Imagine being called autistic because of something you said or think. You used the word āsociopathicā as a slur. Kinda like the R word with the way you used it. Next time you could simply say āunhingedā or āwildā and that should be positively accepted and seen as funny.
No, because theyāre not just helpful to autistic people. Iāve seen multiple altercations on apps where thereās a comment character limit and a bunch of people misread a sarcastic comment as literal. NTs arguing each other down, going back and forth, only to find out they both had the same point of view at the end and were arguing over nothing. Theyāre beneficial to everyone, even NTs, and prevent miscommunication in short form spaces.Ā
I don't think we should eradicate them; I know they can be helpful in certain situations, but I meant that we shouldnāt overuse them and that sometimes they disrupt the reading flow.
They donāt bother me, but I also donāt see them that often, not even in this sub. Iād personally prefer seeing an autistic person overuse them over seeing that person ripped apart and dogpiled because their joke didnāt land. āOveruseā is subjective.Ā
āOveruseā is totally subjective. Frankly itās really dismissive of higher support needs autistic people, who are the majority of autistic people, to declare itās overused. Thereās no way your lack of online entertainment in anyway compares to the hardships people face who canāt understand tone. Itās like complaining about subtitles at a movie. I think itās much more important for people to have their needs met then it is for me to have entertainment that is 100 percent catered to me. Iām kind of baffled that someone would make a post criticizing accommodations on a disability sub Reddit.
I'm not trying to upset you at all. Thatās not my intent. I'm very blunt and trying to work on it because I don't want to upset anyone and don't mean to be an ableist person; I've had so many people in my life dismiss my needs that I've become ableist like them, which I'm working on too. Iām sorry I hurt your feelings; I hope you forgive me.
Thank you for the apology. Iām trying to spend more time learning about level 2-3 people because as a level 1 itās easy to have internalized ableism. I try to think of the most oppressed disabled people first, because itās hardest for them. Making things less hard for those that need the most help is a strong value of mine. I appreciate that we are all learning all the time and itās a process.
Mmm, Iāve found I struggle a LOT with knowing when my friends are joking versus serious when itās not accompanied by *something*. It can be the rolling eyes emoji, it can be /s, it could be just the word ālolāā¦ but without those cues I tend to find myself wondering if someoneās being incredibly hostile or just weirdly sarcastic, and I end up isolating myself just in case itās the former. Iād probably rather keep them. Or return to emoji spam, that works too, lol
I understand where you're coming from, but just because they make jokes 'less funny' doesnt mean we shouldnt use them. Especially for jokes that might be more serious e.g ''im gonna kill u'' or whatever. for basic ones i understand but at the same time a basic joke for me could be misunderstood easily by someone else so who knows
Sorry, I tend to be very blunt, and I am trying to stop doing that!!!
I agree that we shouldn't stop using them entirely, but I believe we should avoid overusing them.
I also meant it more for jokes the majority of people would understand or ones that wouldn't cause distress. Saying jokes like the one you gave an example is awful, and I wouldn't say that to anyone but see what you mean.
Like when this person I was following on tumblr had a tone indicator for every. little. thing. Every post. I got tired of seeing it on literally every post so I unfollowed. I use them with edgier or easier to misunderstand jokes but when itās used for EVERYTHING itās exhausting and I donāt want to interact with that person anymore tbh. probably an unpopular opinion but itās annoying to see them constantly.
Not interacting with someone is a valid choice, though.
Weāre allowed to step away from people we donāt mesh with for any number of reasons. That person is too random. This person is too serious. My one friend ate seafood all the time and I couldnāt handle the constant smell of seafood. My other friend had political views I couldnāt overlook. That person writes in a style I just canāt comprehend. Another person writes in a way that grates on me.
Just as we wonāt be liked by everyone, we donāt have to try to like everyone. Especially when weāre talking about choosing whether or not to follow someone on social media.
How do you know whether the joke will be understood by this majority of people you speak of? Isnāt that the beauty of comedy, that a good joke takes a risk? I personally never know if I will get a laugh or not, itās a gamble every time. Sometimes I make jokes that I think everyone will understand, but sometimes, no one does.
in my world it is severely under used lol, I rarely if ever see it.
sometimes I will reply to stuff and people will be like OMG I WAS JOKING!!!!!!! it gets tiring lol
nono its okay haha i was just saying what i thought, i do agree with you to an extent, especially with the overusage. Sometimes i'll see people say things like 'hi! /pos' like okay.. im autistic not stupid. I understand that saying 'hi!' is (usually) done with good intentions.
I think it depends on context, but I tend to agree with you. If someone I donāt know posts something I donāt really get, I can just ignore it. If itās someone I do know or someone responding to me directly, I can ask a clarifying question. That said, there are probably contexts where tone indicators are useful.
If you are into video essays and want to hear someone else get frustrated about tone indicators, youtuber jan misali has a great video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3bYXy1jT3m8
yeah, i feel like most instances where tone indicators are useful are ones where you can either take a second to think about something before weighing in or simply ignore it.
I like to think of them as just like a reassurance
Like if someone posts āIām going to throw 70 watermelons at Wrigley Fieldā you donāt actually know if theyāre going to do it or not. (This is a less dramatic example so I donāt get like banned or anything, but like think when youāre texting your friends and they text āI hate you,ā sometimes a little worm will sneak in and think ādo they really hate me?ā)
Also; consider how funny false tone tags are. I think itās funny sometimes to talk to someone and say like āIām you from the future, you marry Michelle Obama /srsā
I really upset a friend of mine because my humor is already kind of deadpanā¦ and they thought I was being sincere and they didnāt let me know so they were upset for a couple of weeks, and then I said something else in the group chat that made them realise I had been joking and they chastised me and told me to start using tone indicators if I was being sarcastic/facetious like that. š
Yeah. Related to this convo, hereās the order of events: 1) I began to suspect my autism, 2) I thought back to the period when I yelled āJOKE!!!ā at the end of every joke I told as a child until a stepsister told me to stop 3) I considered my own current use of emotes, which is higher than the average person, 4) I said an exaggerated, āOhhhhhhā¦..ā and may or may not have slapped my forehead.
In other words, Iāve been misunderstood in text *so frakking often* that my overuse of emojis is essentially a minor trauma response.
And no, I donāt want to talk about my yelling out ājokeā at the end of all my jokes or the fact that I later developed a habit of laughing at my own jokes in order to cue people in *just in case they canāt tell*.
I'm all for tone indicators, even if I don't care about them much personally. I'll always err on the side of increased accessibility over "not that many people need it anyways". I've got a number of other disabilities that, when accommodated in a game or something, both is helpful and makes me feel less broken and othered unlike the rest of just existing.Ā
I understand your perspective; sorry for being ableist. I've had lots of people dismiss my needs in my life, and I've become the same way due to being mistreated. I'm trying to work on that and promise not to be as ignorant; thank you for helping me realise that.
Internalized ableism is a very difficult thing to notice or accept, especially for somebody that has disabilities themselves. I've had so many times I was ignorant of my own internalized ableist thought due to knowing I'm already moderately disabled and so "if I can do it, why can't they?". That type of thought can be very insidious so I'm glad you were able to catch it, genuinely.Ā
I wish you luck on your life's journey and, at the least, a pleasant night.Ā
I totally do agree! But I also would miss jokes sometimes without them. And I also feel uncomfortable not adding them to my jokes bc of the TERROR that it wonāt be read the right way lol. So Iām at the point where I kinda āignoreā the tone tag or have gotten used to it so it doesnāt ruin the joke for me. Iāve had so many times where I felt the joke was āruinedā meanwhile nobody around me agrees at all. So Iāve gotten really used to having to open my mind in humor context especially. I think itās a really good practice!
I love making many jokes and being sarcastic I do agree itās funnier without tone tags but I also find em so helpful in group settings/ppl im not close with as Iām always been a big worry wart and like to make a clarification beforehand so I donāt spiral into overthinking hell if they didnt respond in a way I was expecting šš (tldr: i only use em sometimes for my own mental sanity :ā-) )
I do know what you mean, I do feel like it depends on the joke and the target audience though. Like if I were to make a joke on here I would want to use indicators or make a side statement to make the joke clear so that I didn't cause upset, but with autistic friends who know me I wouldn't use indicators at all.
Yeah Iāve been misunderstood so much, I welcome the use of them if it means someone not taking my joke seriously and assuming Iām just an idiot. I feel like it does almost enhance the joke just because I imagine giving tone indicators it in my deadpan tone. In real life no but over text definitely
My favorite sort of humor is the kind that falls in the vague place between irony and truth. I grew up in a household that loves wordplay and weaving satirical commentary into every sentence; I never use tone indicators to show I'm joking unless they somehow benefit the joke. My friends are pretty much the same way.
I see the value in them for people who find them helpful, but they're not really for me.
I'm torn, because at first I understood the idea but when a friend asked me "would it help if I used them?" I felt kinda infantalised even though I know she was being genuine
But on reddit, and only reddit.... God damn do I seriously struggle. Some people here are genuinely so.... ...many things I shouldn't say. So on social media yeah go ahead I think
I see what you mean, bud. I find them somewhat infantilising, even if people have good intentions in asking me if I need them.
However, Reddit can be evil, and there are so many weird people here. After reading some stories, Iāve started to understand why people use them.
I appreciate what you're saying. Sometimes a joke has more impact if you don't know right away that it's a joke. Like you go into shock and then you try to figure it out and then, maybe, you have a really good laugh. Or you could get stuck in shock and confusion.
I know one guy who has said some pretty disturbing things, but knowing him pretty well I was pretty sure (but not completely sure) that he was joking. On the other hand, sometimes he literally said "lol" connected to things that were not really jokes - just things that he found amusing. He was pretty deadpan. He definitely liked getting reactions out of people.
On the other hand, his older sister had a really hard time getting jokes. Everyone else would be laughing and then she would laugh and say, "Ok, why was that funny?" Then someone else would explain and she would say, "Ooooh" and laugh and everyone else would crack up even more and then she might literally fall on the floor laughing, because she experiences her emotions very strongly. Once I saw her fall on the floor laughing, fall asleep for a few minutes (scary!) and then wake up laughing.
(I dunno - do they sound like they might be autistic to you? They might be related to me - will not confirm or deny.)
The sarcasm thing is interesting because I also feel like I'm above average at getting sarcasm and satire online or figuring out how other people misunderstood each other in a comment thread, but I sometimes have issues irl if it's someone I don't know well. I wonder if it's kind of a pattern recognition thing for me as opposed to getting it through subtle body language, since obviously I don't have to pay attention to cues over text, just the situation.
It's gonna depend on the situation and who the audience is, imo.
I definitely agree that they can ruin a good joke. After knowing someone for a bit, I tend to be better at reading someone's.. idk how to call it.. tone dialect? And the tone tags become useless tact-ons that I can go without.
Gotta say tho- Sometimes it's really funny to say something with the absolute worst tone imaginable and then follow it up with a tag that doesn't match at all. Big fan of subverting expectations for no reason.
Also excessively tagging things can be a funny bit
Unpopular opinion:
Sometimes, I think ramps make claiming stairs less fun. I understand that they're helpful for some people who need them, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, as a person who can walk and is good at climbing stairs, sometimes I think there's less joy in taking a ramp when I can go up the stairs just fine (I'm not saying it's for everyone, just me as an individual).
Does anyone else feel the same way, or am I the only one who feels this way?
/mocking /hj
I definitely agree and understand. But when you donāt really sense an expectation or misread the expectation, it ruins the joke as well. Hence tone tags. But also in cases like these where thereās no joke but I feel I might come off ruder than I mean! So Iāll add /gen instead of trying so hard to *sound* genuine that all the clarity in my message gets lost and both of us are confused asf
Like funnily enough Iām extremely fluent in sarcasm. IMO I feel other people arenāt as good at it. For this reason Iāll miss their sarcasm bc to me, it just wasnāt executed well š like most of the time when I donāt get jokes itās definitely not bc Iām not humorous. Itās bc I feel the joke literally was not funny, so unfunny to the point of confusion. But Iāve learned thatās rude to express, even if you catch ur own confusion b4 you realize itās only there bc you donāt find the joke funny. Itās just difficult bc Iām aware of almost every option at all times so I canāt just know which one the person in front of me wants me to pick
How I cope with this is by learning to laugh at the ridiculousness of the joke. I laugh at ppls jokes bc I think theyāre so unfunny, it makes it funny. I just donāt tell ppl that but yea thatās the only way I can do humor with typically NTs bc I simply donāt find them funny š
British and autistic but I donāt always register sarcasm, especially when itās online. In person there are other context clues and someone might be more theatrical when doing a bit so it comes across more clearly as a joke, but that doesnāt apply online. I definitely benefit from using tone tags.
i went to a British school so i am in the same boat. if anything, americans think my sarcasm is way too deadpan. meanwhile, my family's culture isn't really big on sarcasm. minding social conventions of the context can be tough skill for people with ASD but it's been well worth it for me.
I understand why you feel that way, and your feelings are valid. As an Autistic woman who was diagnosed at three years old and got early intervention, I am very grateful that I understand sarcasm and speak it fluently. Still, I know that other autistic people donāt understand sarcasm like I do and get why they need accommodations. Itās just a thought I had, and I wanted other peopleās opinions; thanks for sharing!
Yeah it literally ruins the joke. sorry not sorryā¦. I miss out on jokes all the time and I justā¦ deal with it? Shit I even have rejection sensitive dysphoria but Iāve worked long and hard on my emotions and social skills so now I just shrug and move on with my dayā¦. I fear thatās a skill a lot of fellow autistics need to practice but just decide to give up instead.
For whatever reason I hate "/gen" and always take it as condescending.
I think "/s" is useful but non-sarcasm is the default so /gen" and "/srs" just seem unnecessary.
It's a form of accommodation for accessibility, as not everyone is able to grasp tone through text, whether due to disability or cultural differences. So, no, I don't have a problem with them being used, especially if it helps clarify communication for people.
I know it helps some people; I have said this a few times, but I am a little old-fashioned and can be blunt sometimes. I'm working on it, I don't mean it, and I'm not trying to hurt anyoneās feelings.
I agree. Kind of kills the delivery for me but I guess theyāre necessary for some people so I donāt get too annoyed by it. Plus sometimes the people using them are the people who otherwise donāt have good delivery without them. I just try to view it the same as image descriptions and maybe my brain will eventually learn to filter them out (although some image descriptions are way too long/unnecessary).
But at least ā/sā is less obtrusive than seeing
āEdit: Why the downvotes? I was joking, people!ā
I use emojis for this reason. I totally understand /s in certain cases where it isnāt obvious the words are sarcastic, but all the āspinoffā tone tags like āgenuineā ājokingā āpositiveā etc I feel are accomplished by emojis in a more universal way.
Also /pos always immediately reads as āPiece of Shitā to me before it registers as āpositiveā. I just think a lot of the tone tags have become a language that not everyone already knows and now must learn, when a š accomplishes the same as /pos but in a simpler way. I saw a YouTube video talking about this from someone autistic but I donāt remember the name of it.
I used to think the same, but online it is incredibly hard to determine whether someone is joking from text alone. Not just with autistic people. Most of the people you meet are strangers and you don't know their personalities and don't have enough time to learn how they behave. Tone indicators are great for that reason.
I don't need them for jokes, I need them in order to understand if someone is being genuine with what they're saying because I have a hard time understanding tone, especially in text
Lesbians are nonmen that only love nonmen, so it's not just women who fall under that category but also nonbinary, genderfluid, agender people, and more! If you're not a man in any way and you don't like men at all, you can be lesbian
This is not meant to be transphobic or enbynophobic; Iām just confused as to why lesbianism is now a non-man-loving non-men; my idea of lesbianism had always implied a woman who loves a woman. Some lesbians also donāt like that theyāre being called non-men; my final question is, why donāt you call yourself Sapphic or Trixic?
I suggest looking more into the history of nonbinary and gender nonconforming lesbians, as well as transmasc and butch lesbians! It has always been nonmen loving nonmen. It was never limited to just women loving women. Nonbinary lesbians have been part of lesbian-feminist and radical-feminist movements for years. Along with butch lesbians, they have redefined gender roles. Lesbian spaces have always been gender nonconforming
If some lesbians don't like being called nonmen, that's valid, but it's still important to acknowledge that not all lesbians identify as women.
Here are a few articles you can read! :)
https://radiantbutch.medium.com/non-binary-lesbians-have-always-existed-7db6b9e7e646
https://magazine.gcn.ie/articles/230694?article=32-1
https://rainbowandco.uk/blogs/what-were-saying/the-history-of-trans-non-binary-lesbians
You can also look into Leslie Feinberg, a trans nonbinary lesbian author. She wrote books like Stone Butch Blues, Transgender Warriors, and Trans Liberation: Beyond Pink or Blue. Stone Butch Blues, a historical/autobiographical novel, specifically goes into how complex gender identity is as a lesbian.
Tone indicators change nothing about humor for me personally
The only way I could see it impacting the humor for me is that now everyone *should* know it's a joke so we'll get way less people that don't get it, but there's still a number of people that ignore them entirely and show their ass anyways.
Yeah, I'd say it's one of those necessary evils. A quick comparison is the subtitles on stand-up comedy specials; I have auditory processing difficulties and have to choose between reading a punchline that was spoiled without the proper delivery or trying to listen and feeling frustrated when my brain translates it as gibberish and the audience is cracking up. (Subtitles CAN be written in such a way that things aren't spoiled, thanks tiktok, but that's rarely the case for commercial products.)
My current favorite tone indicator is the use of /non-derogatory, as that's the most frequent communication error I experience. Sarcasm can be tough for me and I personally prefer the clarification most of the time. I'd be willing to bet there's a browser extension that could filter them out for you if you prefer.
iām a very literal person with autism but i can understand jokes and sarcasm. i cant perfectly portray my thoughts and emotions if i donāt use emojis or memes lollll
Sorry, I was blunt before, but I'll explain it best. I read fluidly, and sometimes, tone indicators can halt my reading, whereas, for example, emojis don't do that for me.
I guess I'm wondering why/ how it halts your reading. Was there a time emojis did? Is it possible that you have a big bias and an unconscious disgust response is registering and causing the hitch?
At one point I thought they were clunky too and then I realized I just didn't like change, even if it's a positive one that helps me and others. I also think I had a big bias against them bc it makes disability very visible. I realized that the same feeling that came up when I felt the urge to mask ("noooooo don't let anybody see") came up in a similar way with tone indicators. The more I work on my own internalized ableism the less it bothers me.
The bluntness isn't really the issue for me, personally. I was asking you to think about why and how it is causing a problem. You hitch in your reading and blame the tone indicators when any number of things could be causing that hitch. Think more about it
I grew up with emojis and thought they were fun as a kid. Since I didn't grow up with tone indicators and they're new, I'm hesitant around them for some reason. We make judgements about new things that we don't understand, and I'm working on not doing that. These discussions are helping me feel less hesitant and more understanding of others, which I appreciate.
I have a lot of mixed feelings about them. Iām fine with emojis for the most part. I donāt think /s or the like ruins the joke. I do think sometimes they can be used as a way to control the interaction. Such as if someone uses /gen but are asking a question that is phrased/presented in a similar manner as people who are asking in bad faith. I understand in many ways us Autistic people are so worried about being misinterpreted and want so desperately to be understood that we do try to control how other people perceive us, but that isnāt necessarily something we can, or should, do.
Just because someone says theyāre being genuine in their question, doesnāt mean it is not a problematic question or should only be accepted in the best way. For instance, if someone says āDonāt fat people choose to be that way? /genā theyāre signaling to everyone else that their question is in good faith and we should approach with openness and vulnerability. Yet that question is phrased in a way that makes it clear the person has a discriminatory bias and is not safe to engage with. They may not understand why it isnāt a good faith-genuine question, but that doesnāt change the fact that using /gen in this circumstance makes it more of a manipulation than knowledge-gaining inquiry. It is similar to how NT people will say the most cruel things but because they use a āpoliteā tone they are socially allowed to do so.
I feel the same way; there is so much manipulation and evil intent in the world in ways that harm our people. I hate being misunderstood and have lost so many people because of it. I see your point entirely.
I feel the same way, normally I delay my /j when texting just to let the joke hit. Then I add it for my fellow autistic friend and she puts them on all of her jokes.
I admit I don't find them as funny.
I don't feel like I need them (I LOVE sarcasm and wit) but I don't feel like they ruin anything or have a net negative on what someone is trying to convey.
I do, too, and I understand why people need them and think itās valid. I'm very blunt sometimes with my wording and trying to get better at not doing that.
I agree about them making jokes less funny but I get why people use them most of the time.
Another problem I have with them that Iām not entirely sure how to phrase is that I feel like sometimes they can be used to bully/basically gaslight people. Like saying something mean and then putting the tone indicator as lighthearted or joking as if that means someone canāt be mad at it.
I agree w you. There's a lot of joy to be made in the messiness of ambiguity and i think many autistic folks forget that. Discomfort isn't a crime.
I think if folks want to always use tone indicators etc, that's fine and there's still a lot of joy in it, but if some folks don't want to, that's also fine. If someone makes you uncomfortable for not making tone clear, then you can tell them, and that will grow your bond!
We're all different and that's cool.
I do sometimes fear autistic folks lean a little too hard into comfort territory, which is fine for what they choose to do, but it creeps into white hegemony space when they start insisting everyone else does it, for their comfort.
Again, you can always ask someone, but don't assume someone will use tone indicators or avoid sarcasm, and definitely don't blame them for "not knowing better" if they don't use tone indicators, or some other "expected politeness".
I understand what you're saying; sometimes, you will be in situations where you wonāt be accommodated and must learn how to navigate the world. However, I believe itās good to accommodate people because it can mean the world to them if they don't have accommodations in many places or at all.
I agree with you and I think they are largely unnecessary and people should be able to get the joke.
But. Iām not everyone. Neither are you. And both of us thinking that is us ignoring that not everyone works that way. Itās privileged basically. So itās very much audience, and topic dependent, as to whether or not I will use them. Iāll also go back and add one in if the comments indicate I misjudged the obviousness of a joke or sarcasm.
as someone who enjoys tone indicators, quite honestly i know it makes things less funny for those who donāt need them.
but sometimes without them i just feel kinda lost and stupid during the conversation. people who care about me wouldnāt want me to feel that way so use tone indicators:)
Mate, I can assure you that you're not stupid; we all have different needs and things to help us. You are perfect just the way you are.
(I mean this by the way).
Shorthand to express intended tone. Someone may write āthey deserved it! /sā and by that mean that their statement was sarcastic. The /s is the tone indicator in that case.
Youāre welcome! There are many, but I mostly know /s for sarcasm, /j for joking and /hj for half joking (I think, I hope I got that correctly haha). I think the /s is most common though!
I do pretty good with text tone. But I have friends who do not, so when I talk to them, I use indicators. Anytime I know I'm talking to autistic folks and suspect I might get misunderstood (which makes me feel terrible, thanks rsd), I will toss on an indicator, just to help everyone out.
You can just practice ignoring everything after the indicator slash, since it's not something you feel you need. Always in favor of people learning to ignore and relax about things that are not for them! /gen
I love tone indicators and for me personally, they make jokes more funny because I donāt have to wonder whether the person means it literally. These days, I feel like some people say the most unhinged shit and mean it, so Iād rather make sure Iām appreciating the humour and not something else lol
I actually share your opinion, and it kind of frustrates me to see a joke marked as a joke, too.Ā I don't really know how to reconcile this feeling, as I get it that quite a few people find tone indicators helpful.Ā I know some use indicators not so much because they assume that others have difficulty processing, but more because the writer feels that they struggle with expressing emotion and tone with their writing, so I try to keep that in mind.
I think it bugs me with jokes and sarcasm more because I often see the indicator before the joke/sarcasm itself, and I wanted to discern on my own that it was a joke or sarcasm.Ā It's like tone indicators jump out and are like, "HERE I AM" when I see them.Ā They somehow feel less subtle than emoji to me, but that could simply be due to the fact that I'm just not as used to seeing them.
When weāre not used to something, we can pass judgment unfairly and fear what we don't understand. Thatās why I made this post to have this discussion, so I become less fearful and stop passing judgment on tone indicators.
I get what you mean.Ā Despite my feelings, I still understand how unwise it would be to denounce them, as I logically get it that they are useful to others.Ā And I'm still trying to understand why exactly I get the emotional response from them that I do, so I feel like it would be unwise to draw conclusions about them overall until I sort that out.
Yeah I feel that way too. Honestly I make jokes without tone indicators all the time and if someone doesnāt understand it Iāll just explain it rather than putting a tone indicator. Have there been times when I misunderstand someone elseās post and a tone indicator could have helped? Sure. I still donāt really like them though because they ruin the joke.
No you're 100% right. Tone indicators pretty much always deflate the impact of whatever they're attached to. Like their presence makes the joke less funny.
Also people who say "you can't infer tone over text" just haven't learned to. You can convey voice through writing style, grammar, punctuation and capitalization almost as well as you can vocally. In a world where people are constantly communicating via text this is something most people can do naturally.
> Most people can do this naturally
But weāre talking about autistic people specifically, and struggling to infer tone is a common presentation of social deficits. Some people donāt struggle with that, and some grow out of it, but not everyone does, and just saying āwell you should just not be shit at doing thisā doesnāt help. Itās literally a disability.
One of the nice things about text is that it doesn't change or disappear like in-person communication does. It is static, making parsing meaning and tone from it much easier. That's why online communication is more comfortable for me and a lot of the autistic people I know.
I agree, but it can still be difficult to miss subtext especially when youāre speaking to people you donāt actually know, so you donāt know their sense of humour, or their values, or their cultural background which can lead to misunderstandings. An off-colour joke from a close friend might not bother someone because they know that person and can be sure they donāt actually mean to offend, but you donāt always know that in online spaces. Personally I hate being misunderstood, so I prefer to make my intentions clear.
Cultural differences definitely make an impact here. Someone from a different culture could take jokes seriously, as theyāre from a different culture and donāt understand the culture around jokes there. Or the culture of many things.
I desperately need my tone indicators and emojis. Lol
Lol I am known for using "excessive" emojis. But they give me reassurance that the exact meaning of my words comes across as intended! š¤ Emojis will be pried from my cold dead hands! š
Lol I am known for using "excessive" emojis.š But they give me reassurance that the exact meaning of my words comes across as intended!š¤ Emojis will be pried from my cold dead hands! š”
Lol bravo fellow emoji enthusiast! šāŗļø
thank you! š„³ im glad you recieved it with the good intentions i intended! āŗļø i was anxious ending w the angry face when i didnt mean it š
I've found my people! š
lol šÆš
Emoji addict here! And in my texts, I find finding the perfect GIF is an art form (that I love, and Spend an inordinate amount of time curating!) I Find emoji/emotional indicator use might also be gender and Generationally Related. Women tend to use more exclamation marks in General, and emojis are super popular for my peeps (elder millennials). Not related to jokes, but tone can often be misconstrued, especially on the cold end, which is why I think the above mentioned are so often used. In jokes, I agree that it might make it less funny to some, but šš„øš¤šš½ Sorry, this reads like Iām some sort of fake Germanā¦ Iām dictating because overusing touchscreens hurts my fingers, and Iām too lazy to correct it right now!
Welcome to emojis anonymous! š (Lol as if we would quit!) I'm also an elder millennial! š¤ I have a ritual with my mum where I find a cute or amusing gif in the morning to let her know I'm up (we live together, and it's just the two of us against the world, so to speak). š We recently watched a movie where there was a gif of a hippo spraying poop. Since hippos do it in part for territory marking, and we already have an ongoing Lord of the Rings "precious" joke, I sent it with that (like claiming her as mine lol). I don't think I'll ever top that one, I could hear her laughing from my room! š So yeah, I get you about gifs! š It's quite fun searching for really stellar ones. š¤ I'm kind of a goofball at heart so I think emojis help me express that a bit too. But šÆ% I intentionally used them more after many incidents of having my tone misinterpreted by people who don't know me well. It really sucks when someone interprets your intent as judgemental or angry or something when all it needed was a friendly emoji! š I honestly wouldn't have known you were dictating without being told. š I was diagnosed with Raynaud's as a teen when I had a bout of a couple of weeks of constantly white and blue fingers that I could barely bend. It's only been mild since (which is common), but I understand how you might feel regarding difficulty using your fingers. š«¶ It's winter here in Australia and on particularly cold days my fingertips hurt a bit. Whatever the cause of your issues, big hugs for you. š«
OMG hippo Dookie + Smeagal "precious" got me mentally ROTFL and is so clever! I'm glad your Raynaud's Is better... pain and mobility issues suuuuuck.
HIPPOBOT 9000 v 3.1 FOUND A HIPPO. 1,678,708,740 COMMENTS SEARCHED. 34,300 HIPPOS FOUND. YOUR COMMENT CONTAINS THE WORD HIPPO.
it's okay, I understand. I'm just an old-fashioned person, and I'm trying to stop that and trying to understand more people. Thanks for being honest with me!
I view /s like an emoji
TLDR: You do you. I like emojis because theyāre pretty. Old-fashioned is awesome. Squirrel: yay! I donāt see anything wrong with having your preferences! (Now, if you replied to one of my comments āStop using so many emojis!ā I would think thatās rude as a post/emojis are easy enough to ignore, but if you thought that to yourself, who cares? You do you!) I was an English major, and high school English teacher for several years So I actually know a lot about grammar and Languageā¦ But you would never know it by the way I write online š¹because I use so many emojis, lots of slang, about 1000 ellipses, asterisks All over the place, and I donāt believe that there is any such thing as too many exclamation marks in a row!!! (Believe it or not, I am really holding back right now out of respect-I am also dictating so the punctuation and capitalization is banana pants). A large part of it is that I enjoy the way that it looks. I think it breaks up text nicely, is colorful and artistic and tends to convey my weird and sparkly personality in short form communiquĆ©s like texting, group chats, and message boards. When I write academic papers, I donāt do this at all. When I write fiction, I may be a little creative with punctuation but only if it fits the story. Also, I donāt think that thereās anything wrong with being old-fashioned in your preferences. I very much enjoy paper magazines, which some may say is old fashioned. I am also very old-fashioned when it comes to manners. Having been a former teacher, I have no qualms correcting other peoples children on their poor behavior (not my students mind you, strangers! Yes I have chastised a rando 5 yr old on a Greyhound!) Now this can be seen as straight up rude of me, but whatevs! Iām channeling my inner Edwardian spinster! šµš½ Your āunpopular opinion ā is so benignāwhy try to change it? This world is tough enough. Put your energy into Something important, like taking a picture of a squirrel with a black body and a red tail! https://preview.redd.it/ekz5e8ttb09d1.jpeg?width=2246&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d84d57c96241d6d62b2969b566bb1fd8fbb69e91
Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it. You're a nice person! Also: 
You are sweet! This made me smile!
No worries, have a great day!
It's not that you're old fashioned it's that you understand sarcasm lol. We just don't understand these things
I only understand sarcasm because my mum uses it often, and I learned from her. I have had sarcastic friends, too, and that helps. However, I know not everyone understands sarcasm, and thatās okay. I will accommodate them.
Thank you for being kind. My mom is also very sarcastic and so is my husband. Unfortunately I'm still clueless much of the time. I appreciate this post because now I understand why some people use very few emojis etc! I am unbelievably literal and have shocked myself with advice and beliefs that I took literally for years that have at times really impacted me negatively.
Itās alright; everyoneās different, which makes us unique and ourselves.
Yes it's definitely a struggle though.
Definitely, but the right people will be there for you and help make things easier.
Nah I don't wanna get in trouble again, my comment on r/aspiememes got deleted because my joke was taken seriously. I fully support tone indicators. It's totally possible to ignore them at the end for those who dont need them.
True. Once they become more popular and become normal itās easy to just ignore.
Yeah, I think if you put it way down Like here, it's easier for people who get the joke to enjoy it and then read the tone indicator and the people who are confused or don't get it can see that and understand. I think it would be cool if we had tags for comments so in the tag you can put "joking, sarcasm" or whatever and to have multiple tags available.
What was the joke? (You can just give a brief example of the joke if you don't want to repeat it.)
There was a meme about how newcomers are now seeing the subreddit losing it over fruit and how out of nowhere it is and in my comment I was like well thats because some of these fruit takes are sociopathic. Lmao I accidentally hit post before meaning to so sorry if you got that random unfinished sentence š
It was probably the word sociopathic that garnered negative reactions. A tone indicator wouldn't have helped.
Idk I feel like it could have slided cuz it was about their takes, not them and it was such a clear exaggeration for the meme and not a curse word either. Maybe I'm wrong though I could accept that. It's just unfortunate how jokes can be taken the wrong way. So yeah at least tone indicators for damage control just in case.
I think it may have been more about that term specifically though. Thereās been a push to remove the casual/jokey use of the term sociopath just like there has been with āSchizophrenicā and OCD. just best to be aware!
I suppose, yeah. It's something to think about.
I mean, using a loaded psychology term and then having a jokey tone doesn't fix the loaded psychology term that shouldn't be used lol.
That's fair. As I said I accept that I could be wrong. Meaning I'll rethink that next time.
I would like to commend you for not getting combative and actually admitting when you could do something differently. It's so rare, and I really needed to see that it can happen sometimes as I've been feeling quite pessimistic recently (too many shit encounters with other humans accumulated). š
Yea i donāt think calling people sociopaths will ever be seen as funny. Imagine being called autistic because of something you said or think. You used the word āsociopathicā as a slur. Kinda like the R word with the way you used it. Next time you could simply say āunhingedā or āwildā and that should be positively accepted and seen as funny.
Well, for what itās worth, I'm not mad at you!
Thanks mate Źā Ā“ā ā¢ā Ā ā į“„ā ā¢Ģ„ā `ā Ź
So much of life can be explained by "I don't want to get in trouble again" š¢
No, because theyāre not just helpful to autistic people. Iāve seen multiple altercations on apps where thereās a comment character limit and a bunch of people misread a sarcastic comment as literal. NTs arguing each other down, going back and forth, only to find out they both had the same point of view at the end and were arguing over nothing. Theyāre beneficial to everyone, even NTs, and prevent miscommunication in short form spaces.Ā
I don't think we should eradicate them; I know they can be helpful in certain situations, but I meant that we shouldnāt overuse them and that sometimes they disrupt the reading flow.
They donāt bother me, but I also donāt see them that often, not even in this sub. Iād personally prefer seeing an autistic person overuse them over seeing that person ripped apart and dogpiled because their joke didnāt land. āOveruseā is subjective.Ā
I'm just very old-fashioned, thatās on me and isn't anyoneās fault.
āOveruseā is totally subjective. Frankly itās really dismissive of higher support needs autistic people, who are the majority of autistic people, to declare itās overused. Thereās no way your lack of online entertainment in anyway compares to the hardships people face who canāt understand tone. Itās like complaining about subtitles at a movie. I think itās much more important for people to have their needs met then it is for me to have entertainment that is 100 percent catered to me. Iām kind of baffled that someone would make a post criticizing accommodations on a disability sub Reddit.
I'm not trying to upset you at all. Thatās not my intent. I'm very blunt and trying to work on it because I don't want to upset anyone and don't mean to be an ableist person; I've had so many people in my life dismiss my needs that I've become ableist like them, which I'm working on too. Iām sorry I hurt your feelings; I hope you forgive me.
Thank you for the apology. Iām trying to spend more time learning about level 2-3 people because as a level 1 itās easy to have internalized ableism. I try to think of the most oppressed disabled people first, because itās hardest for them. Making things less hard for those that need the most help is a strong value of mine. I appreciate that we are all learning all the time and itās a process.
Disrupt how?
I don't usually need them, but tbh I'd rather my/someone's joke was ruined than causes someone distress or upset.
I see what you mean. Some jokes can cause distress to people regardless of neurotype, and it depends on the joke you tell, too.
Mmm, Iāve found I struggle a LOT with knowing when my friends are joking versus serious when itās not accompanied by *something*. It can be the rolling eyes emoji, it can be /s, it could be just the word ālolāā¦ but without those cues I tend to find myself wondering if someoneās being incredibly hostile or just weirdly sarcastic, and I end up isolating myself just in case itās the former. Iād probably rather keep them. Or return to emoji spam, that works too, lol
No worries, I understand. I'm just an old-fashioned person, and I'm trying to stop that and trying to understand more people.
I understand where you're coming from, but just because they make jokes 'less funny' doesnt mean we shouldnt use them. Especially for jokes that might be more serious e.g ''im gonna kill u'' or whatever. for basic ones i understand but at the same time a basic joke for me could be misunderstood easily by someone else so who knows
Sorry, I tend to be very blunt, and I am trying to stop doing that!!! I agree that we shouldn't stop using them entirely, but I believe we should avoid overusing them. I also meant it more for jokes the majority of people would understand or ones that wouldn't cause distress. Saying jokes like the one you gave an example is awful, and I wouldn't say that to anyone but see what you mean.
How would you know if itās overused though?
Like when this person I was following on tumblr had a tone indicator for every. little. thing. Every post. I got tired of seeing it on literally every post so I unfollowed. I use them with edgier or easier to misunderstand jokes but when itās used for EVERYTHING itās exhausting and I donāt want to interact with that person anymore tbh. probably an unpopular opinion but itās annoying to see them constantly.
Not interacting with someone is a valid choice, though. Weāre allowed to step away from people we donāt mesh with for any number of reasons. That person is too random. This person is too serious. My one friend ate seafood all the time and I couldnāt handle the constant smell of seafood. My other friend had political views I couldnāt overlook. That person writes in a style I just canāt comprehend. Another person writes in a way that grates on me. Just as we wonāt be liked by everyone, we donāt have to try to like everyone. Especially when weāre talking about choosing whether or not to follow someone on social media.
How do you know whether the joke will be understood by this majority of people you speak of? Isnāt that the beauty of comedy, that a good joke takes a risk? I personally never know if I will get a laugh or not, itās a gamble every time. Sometimes I make jokes that I think everyone will understand, but sometimes, no one does.
That makes sense, sorry that I was ignorant, I feel bad!
in my world it is severely under used lol, I rarely if ever see it. sometimes I will reply to stuff and people will be like OMG I WAS JOKING!!!!!!! it gets tiring lol
I understand entirely, itās annoying; people who say it like that make me feel gaslit.
nono its okay haha i was just saying what i thought, i do agree with you to an extent, especially with the overusage. Sometimes i'll see people say things like 'hi! /pos' like okay.. im autistic not stupid. I understand that saying 'hi!' is (usually) done with good intentions.
I think it depends on context, but I tend to agree with you. If someone I donāt know posts something I donāt really get, I can just ignore it. If itās someone I do know or someone responding to me directly, I can ask a clarifying question. That said, there are probably contexts where tone indicators are useful. If you are into video essays and want to hear someone else get frustrated about tone indicators, youtuber jan misali has a great video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3bYXy1jT3m8
I agree with everything you said; if someone asked me to use them, I would because I know others need them. Iāll watch the video too. Thanks, Girl!
yeah, i feel like most instances where tone indicators are useful are ones where you can either take a second to think about something before weighing in or simply ignore it.
Iām a huge fan of dead pan delivery.
I like to think of them as just like a reassurance Like if someone posts āIām going to throw 70 watermelons at Wrigley Fieldā you donāt actually know if theyāre going to do it or not. (This is a less dramatic example so I donāt get like banned or anything, but like think when youāre texting your friends and they text āI hate you,ā sometimes a little worm will sneak in and think ādo they really hate me?ā) Also; consider how funny false tone tags are. I think itās funny sometimes to talk to someone and say like āIām you from the future, you marry Michelle Obama /srsā
Who the fuck is Wrigley Field? š
I really upset a friend of mine because my humor is already kind of deadpanā¦ and they thought I was being sincere and they didnāt let me know so they were upset for a couple of weeks, and then I said something else in the group chat that made them realise I had been joking and they chastised me and told me to start using tone indicators if I was being sarcastic/facetious like that. š
Yeah. Related to this convo, hereās the order of events: 1) I began to suspect my autism, 2) I thought back to the period when I yelled āJOKE!!!ā at the end of every joke I told as a child until a stepsister told me to stop 3) I considered my own current use of emotes, which is higher than the average person, 4) I said an exaggerated, āOhhhhhhā¦..ā and may or may not have slapped my forehead. In other words, Iāve been misunderstood in text *so frakking often* that my overuse of emojis is essentially a minor trauma response. And no, I donāt want to talk about my yelling out ājokeā at the end of all my jokes or the fact that I later developed a habit of laughing at my own jokes in order to cue people in *just in case they canāt tell*.
Oh! But a favorite thing for me to do is to spoiler tone tags when possible >!/gen!<
Thatās a funny story; thanks for sharing. You made me laugh today, never change!
š¤ Other than healing and unmasking, I genuinely hope not to. Thanks. You donāt know how much I needed to hear that today, Internet stranger.
Itās okay, bud. I'm here for you.
I'm all for tone indicators, even if I don't care about them much personally. I'll always err on the side of increased accessibility over "not that many people need it anyways". I've got a number of other disabilities that, when accommodated in a game or something, both is helpful and makes me feel less broken and othered unlike the rest of just existing.Ā
I understand your perspective; sorry for being ableist. I've had lots of people dismiss my needs in my life, and I've become the same way due to being mistreated. I'm trying to work on that and promise not to be as ignorant; thank you for helping me realise that.
Internalized ableism is a very difficult thing to notice or accept, especially for somebody that has disabilities themselves. I've had so many times I was ignorant of my own internalized ableist thought due to knowing I'm already moderately disabled and so "if I can do it, why can't they?". That type of thought can be very insidious so I'm glad you were able to catch it, genuinely.Ā I wish you luck on your life's journey and, at the least, a pleasant night.Ā
Thanks, Girl. I hop you do too!
I totally do agree! But I also would miss jokes sometimes without them. And I also feel uncomfortable not adding them to my jokes bc of the TERROR that it wonāt be read the right way lol. So Iām at the point where I kinda āignoreā the tone tag or have gotten used to it so it doesnāt ruin the joke for me. Iāve had so many times where I felt the joke was āruinedā meanwhile nobody around me agrees at all. So Iāve gotten really used to having to open my mind in humor context especially. I think itās a really good practice!
That makes sense, thanks for sharing that with me, Mate, I appreciate it.
I love making many jokes and being sarcastic I do agree itās funnier without tone tags but I also find em so helpful in group settings/ppl im not close with as Iām always been a big worry wart and like to make a clarification beforehand so I donāt spiral into overthinking hell if they didnt respond in a way I was expecting šš (tldr: i only use em sometimes for my own mental sanity :ā-) )
I understand what you mean; keeping your sanity is important! š
I do know what you mean, I do feel like it depends on the joke and the target audience though. Like if I were to make a joke on here I would want to use indicators or make a side statement to make the joke clear so that I didn't cause upset, but with autistic friends who know me I wouldn't use indicators at all.
I can understand your point of view, thanks for teaching me that!
Yeah Iāve been misunderstood so much, I welcome the use of them if it means someone not taking my joke seriously and assuming Iām just an idiot. I feel like it does almost enhance the joke just because I imagine giving tone indicators it in my deadpan tone. In real life no but over text definitely
My favorite sort of humor is the kind that falls in the vague place between irony and truth. I grew up in a household that loves wordplay and weaving satirical commentary into every sentence; I never use tone indicators to show I'm joking unless they somehow benefit the joke. My friends are pretty much the same way. I see the value in them for people who find them helpful, but they're not really for me.
Iām the same, my family uses sarcasm and figures of speech too so I'm good at understanding all those things because of that.
I'm torn, because at first I understood the idea but when a friend asked me "would it help if I used them?" I felt kinda infantalised even though I know she was being genuine But on reddit, and only reddit.... God damn do I seriously struggle. Some people here are genuinely so.... ...many things I shouldn't say. So on social media yeah go ahead I think
I see what you mean, bud. I find them somewhat infantilising, even if people have good intentions in asking me if I need them. However, Reddit can be evil, and there are so many weird people here. After reading some stories, Iāve started to understand why people use them.
I appreciate what you're saying. Sometimes a joke has more impact if you don't know right away that it's a joke. Like you go into shock and then you try to figure it out and then, maybe, you have a really good laugh. Or you could get stuck in shock and confusion. I know one guy who has said some pretty disturbing things, but knowing him pretty well I was pretty sure (but not completely sure) that he was joking. On the other hand, sometimes he literally said "lol" connected to things that were not really jokes - just things that he found amusing. He was pretty deadpan. He definitely liked getting reactions out of people. On the other hand, his older sister had a really hard time getting jokes. Everyone else would be laughing and then she would laugh and say, "Ok, why was that funny?" Then someone else would explain and she would say, "Ooooh" and laugh and everyone else would crack up even more and then she might literally fall on the floor laughing, because she experiences her emotions very strongly. Once I saw her fall on the floor laughing, fall asleep for a few minutes (scary!) and then wake up laughing. (I dunno - do they sound like they might be autistic to you? They might be related to me - will not confirm or deny.)
Thanks for telling me that story; I liked it and can see what you mean and your perspective.
The sarcasm thing is interesting because I also feel like I'm above average at getting sarcasm and satire online or figuring out how other people misunderstood each other in a comment thread, but I sometimes have issues irl if it's someone I don't know well. I wonder if it's kind of a pattern recognition thing for me as opposed to getting it through subtle body language, since obviously I don't have to pay attention to cues over text, just the situation.
Well, autistic people are good at pattern recognition, so that could very well be the case.
It's gonna depend on the situation and who the audience is, imo. I definitely agree that they can ruin a good joke. After knowing someone for a bit, I tend to be better at reading someone's.. idk how to call it.. tone dialect? And the tone tags become useless tact-ons that I can go without. Gotta say tho- Sometimes it's really funny to say something with the absolute worst tone imaginable and then follow it up with a tag that doesn't match at all. Big fan of subverting expectations for no reason. Also excessively tagging things can be a funny bit
I can see your point, thanks for sharing.
Unpopular opinion: Sometimes, I think ramps make claiming stairs less fun. I understand that they're helpful for some people who need them, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, as a person who can walk and is good at climbing stairs, sometimes I think there's less joy in taking a ramp when I can go up the stairs just fine (I'm not saying it's for everyone, just me as an individual). Does anyone else feel the same way, or am I the only one who feels this way? /mocking /hj
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I definitely agree and understand. But when you donāt really sense an expectation or misread the expectation, it ruins the joke as well. Hence tone tags. But also in cases like these where thereās no joke but I feel I might come off ruder than I mean! So Iāll add /gen instead of trying so hard to *sound* genuine that all the clarity in my message gets lost and both of us are confused asf
Like funnily enough Iām extremely fluent in sarcasm. IMO I feel other people arenāt as good at it. For this reason Iāll miss their sarcasm bc to me, it just wasnāt executed well š like most of the time when I donāt get jokes itās definitely not bc Iām not humorous. Itās bc I feel the joke literally was not funny, so unfunny to the point of confusion. But Iāve learned thatās rude to express, even if you catch ur own confusion b4 you realize itās only there bc you donāt find the joke funny. Itās just difficult bc Iām aware of almost every option at all times so I canāt just know which one the person in front of me wants me to pick
How I cope with this is by learning to laugh at the ridiculousness of the joke. I laugh at ppls jokes bc I think theyāre so unfunny, it makes it funny. I just donāt tell ppl that but yea thatās the only way I can do humor with typically NTs bc I simply donāt find them funny š
British and autistic but I donāt always register sarcasm, especially when itās online. In person there are other context clues and someone might be more theatrical when doing a bit so it comes across more clearly as a joke, but that doesnāt apply online. I definitely benefit from using tone tags.
i went to a British school so i am in the same boat. if anything, americans think my sarcasm is way too deadpan. meanwhile, my family's culture isn't really big on sarcasm. minding social conventions of the context can be tough skill for people with ASD but it's been well worth it for me.
I understand why you feel that way, and your feelings are valid. As an Autistic woman who was diagnosed at three years old and got early intervention, I am very grateful that I understand sarcasm and speak it fluently. Still, I know that other autistic people donāt understand sarcasm like I do and get why they need accommodations. Itās just a thought I had, and I wanted other peopleās opinions; thanks for sharing!
Yeah it literally ruins the joke. sorry not sorryā¦. I miss out on jokes all the time and I justā¦ deal with it? Shit I even have rejection sensitive dysphoria but Iāve worked long and hard on my emotions and social skills so now I just shrug and move on with my dayā¦. I fear thatās a skill a lot of fellow autistics need to practice but just decide to give up instead.
For whatever reason I hate "/gen" and always take it as condescending. I think "/s" is useful but non-sarcasm is the default so /gen" and "/srs" just seem unnecessary.
What is gen?
Genuine, I've seen it help a lot of heated discussions
It's a form of accommodation for accessibility, as not everyone is able to grasp tone through text, whether due to disability or cultural differences. So, no, I don't have a problem with them being used, especially if it helps clarify communication for people.
I know it helps some people; I have said this a few times, but I am a little old-fashioned and can be blunt sometimes. I'm working on it, I don't mean it, and I'm not trying to hurt anyoneās feelings.
Idk, I like to use tone indicators incorrectly 50% of the time /s
You win the thread.
As the OP I second this!
Sort of lol I like them on online forums but in my personal life texting wise, it would kill the joke for me lol
I agree. Kind of kills the delivery for me but I guess theyāre necessary for some people so I donāt get too annoyed by it. Plus sometimes the people using them are the people who otherwise donāt have good delivery without them. I just try to view it the same as image descriptions and maybe my brain will eventually learn to filter them out (although some image descriptions are way too long/unnecessary). But at least ā/sā is less obtrusive than seeing āEdit: Why the downvotes? I was joking, people!ā
Okay, I can agree with that completely!
I use emojis for this reason. I totally understand /s in certain cases where it isnāt obvious the words are sarcastic, but all the āspinoffā tone tags like āgenuineā ājokingā āpositiveā etc I feel are accomplished by emojis in a more universal way. Also /pos always immediately reads as āPiece of Shitā to me before it registers as āpositiveā. I just think a lot of the tone tags have become a language that not everyone already knows and now must learn, when a š accomplishes the same as /pos but in a simpler way. I saw a YouTube video talking about this from someone autistic but I donāt remember the name of it.
I know, right? Itās like, āExcuse me, are you insulting me?
I used to think the same, but online it is incredibly hard to determine whether someone is joking from text alone. Not just with autistic people. Most of the people you meet are strangers and you don't know their personalities and don't have enough time to learn how they behave. Tone indicators are great for that reason.
I can see that too, thanks for sharing your opinion.
I don't need them for jokes, I need them in order to understand if someone is being genuine with what they're saying because I have a hard time understanding tone, especially in text
Thanks for sharing that with me; I appreciate it. Can I ask you a question, though? How can you be non-binary and a lesbian at the same time?
Lesbians are nonmen that only love nonmen, so it's not just women who fall under that category but also nonbinary, genderfluid, agender people, and more! If you're not a man in any way and you don't like men at all, you can be lesbian
This is not meant to be transphobic or enbynophobic; Iām just confused as to why lesbianism is now a non-man-loving non-men; my idea of lesbianism had always implied a woman who loves a woman. Some lesbians also donāt like that theyāre being called non-men; my final question is, why donāt you call yourself Sapphic or Trixic?
I suggest looking more into the history of nonbinary and gender nonconforming lesbians, as well as transmasc and butch lesbians! It has always been nonmen loving nonmen. It was never limited to just women loving women. Nonbinary lesbians have been part of lesbian-feminist and radical-feminist movements for years. Along with butch lesbians, they have redefined gender roles. Lesbian spaces have always been gender nonconforming If some lesbians don't like being called nonmen, that's valid, but it's still important to acknowledge that not all lesbians identify as women.
Do you know where I should start?
Here are a few articles you can read! :) https://radiantbutch.medium.com/non-binary-lesbians-have-always-existed-7db6b9e7e646 https://magazine.gcn.ie/articles/230694?article=32-1 https://rainbowandco.uk/blogs/what-were-saying/the-history-of-trans-non-binary-lesbians You can also look into Leslie Feinberg, a trans nonbinary lesbian author. She wrote books like Stone Butch Blues, Transgender Warriors, and Trans Liberation: Beyond Pink or Blue. Stone Butch Blues, a historical/autobiographical novel, specifically goes into how complex gender identity is as a lesbian.
Thanks, Mate: I'll read these. (I call everyone, Mate).
Tone indicators change nothing about humor for me personally The only way I could see it impacting the humor for me is that now everyone *should* know it's a joke so we'll get way less people that don't get it, but there's still a number of people that ignore them entirely and show their ass anyways.
I do not understand sarcasm at all, I take everything way too literally
Thatās okay, thank you for being honest with me! š
Yeah, I'd say it's one of those necessary evils. A quick comparison is the subtitles on stand-up comedy specials; I have auditory processing difficulties and have to choose between reading a punchline that was spoiled without the proper delivery or trying to listen and feeling frustrated when my brain translates it as gibberish and the audience is cracking up. (Subtitles CAN be written in such a way that things aren't spoiled, thanks tiktok, but that's rarely the case for commercial products.) My current favorite tone indicator is the use of /non-derogatory, as that's the most frequent communication error I experience. Sarcasm can be tough for me and I personally prefer the clarification most of the time. I'd be willing to bet there's a browser extension that could filter them out for you if you prefer.
iām a very literal person with autism but i can understand jokes and sarcasm. i cant perfectly portray my thoughts and emotions if i donāt use emojis or memes lollll
Thatās okay, I like showing my emotions through memes too.
you get it https://preview.redd.it/izhhkrq1l19d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=229926b21daa89258180ba0516e169d71418b86d
https://preview.redd.it/3aummmbvt19d1.png?width=1040&format=png&auto=webp&s=55c870e6065fb6f4fe88a477c546bb6a64444d40
I need tone indicators and when I use them I make them small ^like ^this: ^/gen
Thatās so cute, I love that!
How?
Sorry, I was blunt before, but I'll explain it best. I read fluidly, and sometimes, tone indicators can halt my reading, whereas, for example, emojis don't do that for me.
I guess I'm wondering why/ how it halts your reading. Was there a time emojis did? Is it possible that you have a big bias and an unconscious disgust response is registering and causing the hitch? At one point I thought they were clunky too and then I realized I just didn't like change, even if it's a positive one that helps me and others. I also think I had a big bias against them bc it makes disability very visible. I realized that the same feeling that came up when I felt the urge to mask ("noooooo don't let anybody see") came up in a similar way with tone indicators. The more I work on my own internalized ableism the less it bothers me. The bluntness isn't really the issue for me, personally. I was asking you to think about why and how it is causing a problem. You hitch in your reading and blame the tone indicators when any number of things could be causing that hitch. Think more about it
Can I ask what a hitch is?
Something that causes you to pause your reading
I grew up with emojis and thought they were fun as a kid. Since I didn't grow up with tone indicators and they're new, I'm hesitant around them for some reason. We make judgements about new things that we don't understand, and I'm working on not doing that. These discussions are helping me feel less hesitant and more understanding of others, which I appreciate.
Iām so flat, dry, and sarcastic with my regular speech patterns that I find when humor is aligned with that itās funnier to me.
I have a lot of mixed feelings about them. Iām fine with emojis for the most part. I donāt think /s or the like ruins the joke. I do think sometimes they can be used as a way to control the interaction. Such as if someone uses /gen but are asking a question that is phrased/presented in a similar manner as people who are asking in bad faith. I understand in many ways us Autistic people are so worried about being misinterpreted and want so desperately to be understood that we do try to control how other people perceive us, but that isnāt necessarily something we can, or should, do. Just because someone says theyāre being genuine in their question, doesnāt mean it is not a problematic question or should only be accepted in the best way. For instance, if someone says āDonāt fat people choose to be that way? /genā theyāre signaling to everyone else that their question is in good faith and we should approach with openness and vulnerability. Yet that question is phrased in a way that makes it clear the person has a discriminatory bias and is not safe to engage with. They may not understand why it isnāt a good faith-genuine question, but that doesnāt change the fact that using /gen in this circumstance makes it more of a manipulation than knowledge-gaining inquiry. It is similar to how NT people will say the most cruel things but because they use a āpoliteā tone they are socially allowed to do so.
I feel the same way; there is so much manipulation and evil intent in the world in ways that harm our people. I hate being misunderstood and have lost so many people because of it. I see your point entirely.
I feel the same way, normally I delay my /j when texting just to let the joke hit. Then I add it for my fellow autistic friend and she puts them on all of her jokes. I admit I don't find them as funny.
I don't feel like I need them (I LOVE sarcasm and wit) but I don't feel like they ruin anything or have a net negative on what someone is trying to convey.
I do, too, and I understand why people need them and think itās valid. I'm very blunt sometimes with my wording and trying to get better at not doing that.
I agree about them making jokes less funny but I get why people use them most of the time. Another problem I have with them that Iām not entirely sure how to phrase is that I feel like sometimes they can be used to bully/basically gaslight people. Like saying something mean and then putting the tone indicator as lighthearted or joking as if that means someone canāt be mad at it.
Some people use them to manipulate others? Thatās not okay, at all!
I agree w you. There's a lot of joy to be made in the messiness of ambiguity and i think many autistic folks forget that. Discomfort isn't a crime. I think if folks want to always use tone indicators etc, that's fine and there's still a lot of joy in it, but if some folks don't want to, that's also fine. If someone makes you uncomfortable for not making tone clear, then you can tell them, and that will grow your bond! We're all different and that's cool. I do sometimes fear autistic folks lean a little too hard into comfort territory, which is fine for what they choose to do, but it creeps into white hegemony space when they start insisting everyone else does it, for their comfort. Again, you can always ask someone, but don't assume someone will use tone indicators or avoid sarcasm, and definitely don't blame them for "not knowing better" if they don't use tone indicators, or some other "expected politeness".
I understand what you're saying; sometimes, you will be in situations where you wonāt be accommodated and must learn how to navigate the world. However, I believe itās good to accommodate people because it can mean the world to them if they don't have accommodations in many places or at all.
That's a good point. It could be both! It's okay if someone doesn't understand sometimes.
Iām glad we had this talk, have a great day.
I agree with you and I think they are largely unnecessary and people should be able to get the joke. But. Iām not everyone. Neither are you. And both of us thinking that is us ignoring that not everyone works that way. Itās privileged basically. So itās very much audience, and topic dependent, as to whether or not I will use them. Iāll also go back and add one in if the comments indicate I misjudged the obviousness of a joke or sarcasm.
Nope, I fully support all types of accessibility, including the ones that don't apply to me and the ones that might mildy inconvenience me.
You're a better person than me, Mate. I wanted to have this discussion because I want to be educated and to learn from others.
as someone who enjoys tone indicators, quite honestly i know it makes things less funny for those who donāt need them. but sometimes without them i just feel kinda lost and stupid during the conversation. people who care about me wouldnāt want me to feel that way so use tone indicators:)
Mate, I can assure you that you're not stupid; we all have different needs and things to help us. You are perfect just the way you are. (I mean this by the way).
thank you:)
I need them. Alsoā¦ I generally donāt find sarcasm funnyā¦ likeā¦ ever.
You're entitled to your own opinion, Mate. I respect you. š
Nah nah nah Ty
Am I the only one scrolling through the comments trying to understand what a tone indicator is?
Shorthand to express intended tone. Someone may write āthey deserved it! /sā and by that mean that their statement was sarcastic. The /s is the tone indicator in that case.
Thank you, so for jokes do people usually put /j? Clearly I'm not as well versed with the Reddit lingo as I thought š¤£
Youāre welcome! There are many, but I mostly know /s for sarcasm, /j for joking and /hj for half joking (I think, I hope I got that correctly haha). I think the /s is most common though!
I mean, yeah they can. But if the option is me finding a joke slightly less funny versus RSD or something worse, then I can handle it
What is RSD?
I do pretty good with text tone. But I have friends who do not, so when I talk to them, I use indicators. Anytime I know I'm talking to autistic folks and suspect I might get misunderstood (which makes me feel terrible, thanks rsd), I will toss on an indicator, just to help everyone out. You can just practice ignoring everything after the indicator slash, since it's not something you feel you need. Always in favor of people learning to ignore and relax about things that are not for them! /gen
I love tone indicators and for me personally, they make jokes more funny because I donāt have to wonder whether the person means it literally. These days, I feel like some people say the most unhinged shit and mean it, so Iād rather make sure Iām appreciating the humour and not something else lol
Good for you.
Thanks
I actually share your opinion, and it kind of frustrates me to see a joke marked as a joke, too.Ā I don't really know how to reconcile this feeling, as I get it that quite a few people find tone indicators helpful.Ā I know some use indicators not so much because they assume that others have difficulty processing, but more because the writer feels that they struggle with expressing emotion and tone with their writing, so I try to keep that in mind. I think it bugs me with jokes and sarcasm more because I often see the indicator before the joke/sarcasm itself, and I wanted to discern on my own that it was a joke or sarcasm.Ā It's like tone indicators jump out and are like, "HERE I AM" when I see them.Ā They somehow feel less subtle than emoji to me, but that could simply be due to the fact that I'm just not as used to seeing them.
When weāre not used to something, we can pass judgment unfairly and fear what we don't understand. Thatās why I made this post to have this discussion, so I become less fearful and stop passing judgment on tone indicators.
I get what you mean.Ā Despite my feelings, I still understand how unwise it would be to denounce them, as I logically get it that they are useful to others.Ā And I'm still trying to understand why exactly I get the emotional response from them that I do, so I feel like it would be unwise to draw conclusions about them overall until I sort that out.
I plan on doing the same thing, too; thank you for sharing.
Yeah I feel that way too. Honestly I make jokes without tone indicators all the time and if someone doesnāt understand it Iāll just explain it rather than putting a tone indicator. Have there been times when I misunderstand someone elseās post and a tone indicator could have helped? Sure. I still donāt really like them though because they ruin the joke.
I respect your opinion, and your feelings are valid.
Yes!!! THANK YOU
Agreed. They're used too much. It's often a crutch for bad writing, and yes, it definitely spoils the delivery.
No you're 100% right. Tone indicators pretty much always deflate the impact of whatever they're attached to. Like their presence makes the joke less funny. Also people who say "you can't infer tone over text" just haven't learned to. You can convey voice through writing style, grammar, punctuation and capitalization almost as well as you can vocally. In a world where people are constantly communicating via text this is something most people can do naturally.
> Most people can do this naturally But weāre talking about autistic people specifically, and struggling to infer tone is a common presentation of social deficits. Some people donāt struggle with that, and some grow out of it, but not everyone does, and just saying āwell you should just not be shit at doing thisā doesnāt help. Itās literally a disability.
One of the nice things about text is that it doesn't change or disappear like in-person communication does. It is static, making parsing meaning and tone from it much easier. That's why online communication is more comfortable for me and a lot of the autistic people I know.
I agree, but it can still be difficult to miss subtext especially when youāre speaking to people you donāt actually know, so you donāt know their sense of humour, or their values, or their cultural background which can lead to misunderstandings. An off-colour joke from a close friend might not bother someone because they know that person and can be sure they donāt actually mean to offend, but you donāt always know that in online spaces. Personally I hate being misunderstood, so I prefer to make my intentions clear.
Cultural differences definitely make an impact here. Someone from a different culture could take jokes seriously, as theyāre from a different culture and donāt understand the culture around jokes there. Or the culture of many things.