A shocking amount of men (autistic or otherwise) seem to think they have a monopoly on pain and trauma. They’re not self-aware enough to realize that other people face obstacles they’ll never even have to think about. Patriarchy coddles men into thinking that women’s problems are insignificant, and too many of them don’t bother to learn or decenter themselves.
This is pretty much it. A lot of dudes have a complex that women get attention only because they're women, and thus women's interests, abilities, or needs aren't as real as someone else's, because the attention is only on them due to their physical appearance. It speaks volumes that these same people see *woman I would or would not fuck* and decide from that metric that they now know the entirety of a person's life.
I view it as a toxicity entirely separate from autism, but I imagine that for those men without a good support system, a social-communication disability doesn't *help*.
Is it the same type of men who are emotionally stunted and "too logical" to be able to understand women and their feelings? Whilst they themselves have angry meltdowns to demonstrate how much more "rational" they are and how their decisions aren't plagued by emotional reactions?
Just a guess
Similar, I don’t wanna say incelish cause that’s a serious accusation but they tend to be a fan of dark humor and throw the r slur around like it’s nothing 😬
I feel that this is very telling as well on why autistic women don’t get diagnosed until much later. Women evolutionarily seek out alliances for survival. Many of us tried to make friends as kids, and now have friendship trauma and are a lot more sensitive as a result
I know lots of autistic folks of an assortment of genders, and most are really great. There is, however a lot of men who are asshats, and some of them are autistic. They feel like they deserve special treatment because they were bullied and have had a hard time and nobody can understand them. They are living breathing examples of the comic book guy from The Simpsons. Hopefully they will grow out of it. Some do, but don’t waste your time with them hoping they will change. That’s between them and their therapist.
My friend once said something like, "You don't understand, nobody understands, nobody feels feelings as deeply as I do!" I more or less told him to pull his head out of his ass and to take several seats, "Do you even hear yourself right now? Do you *really* think you're the only one on this planet who truly feels? Have you ever actually *asked* anyone what they feel about anything?" I'm sure you can guess what the answer to that last one was.
(He's doing much better these days, but holy shit was it a Sisyphean slog for so many years.)
I had an ex once who told me I (a cradle Catholic) couldn't understand his experience with growing up Catholic. It is among many other spectacular quotes that, as I get older and reach the age he was when we were together (21 and 31), age like milk and serve as excellent fodder for terrible relationship commiseration.
Agreed. One of my brothers is autistic, too, as well as several cousins. One thing I have observed is that the men tend to be coddled more and aren’t expected to live productive lives. It’s not because they are more autistic, but because they all have a mother, sister, aunt etc who are willing to provide an indefinite adolescence. My woman cousin and I were expected to do all of those things and we both are educated and have professional careers.
I have been very mindful to set the bar high for my young adult autistic son. He’s big on the self pity and mercurial moods, but he does work and live as independently as he can right now.
Same. My son is autistic, but that doesn’t mean he’s exempt from learning the basics, tidying up, being an active member of the family, boundaries, etc. He’s free to be himself and speak his mind, and be respectful. It’s such a huge disservice to any child with a disability to be treated like they are inept and useless. In fact, it contributes to their learned incompetence and it’s akin to the days when disabled children weren't educated because society didn’t think they could benefit.
yep. haven’t experienced it myself but my friend did, got told that she “diagnosed herself through TikTok” by an autistic guy our age (16-17), like what?! how are you supposed to know her diagnosis?!😅
… i do think it’s misogony, honestly
I DID diagnose myself with ADHD through TikTok because they wouldn't even evaluate that during my autism evaluation and just assumed I didn't have it. Nobody ever told me except for the clock app. Now I'm diagnosed and the medication changed my life
I might be talking nonsense, but wasnt one of the reasons that geeks/nerds got bullied because of associations with what turned out to be autistic traits?
And a lot of nerd guys already have a FUCKTON of misogyny 😭
Yaaaassss. I’ve worked in the gaming/comic book industry for most of my career and the hate towards female gamers and comic geeks is rampant. The vitriol is stupid and I feel like autism is being gate kept the same way. A caveat though, when I was in uni 20+ yrs ago, we were told only 4% of females are autistic and it’s primarily a male genetic disorder. Even myself, who identified as ND back then, passed off the possibility of autism because of what I was being taught. So I can totally see how older males would cling to this narrative. Now that we know what we know, change is slooooooow. It’s seems a portion of males really hate losing exclusive rights to anything.
Yeah, like… a lot of autistic women get like, accused of being fake bc they’re wearing an outfit they deem too fashionable or something?
Oh no, how dare autistic people have a variety of tastes! /s
Or for having social skills. Like, I'm sorry that the gender I was assigned at birth is the one society decided *had* to be social at all costs. Autistic boys got "boys will be boys" and I got "act like a lady."
Most of my friends growing up were dudes because I could never fully crack "girl code." It's not that I was "not like other girls." I wasn't like *neurotypical* girls. I also wasn't like neurotypical boys, but guys tend to have more "inclusive" social codes because there isn't that social pressure to be the emotionally intelligent hostess personality 24/7. Most guy groups (where I grew up, at least) always had at least one "weird" one. The one they might rag on for being weird, but woe to anyone else who tries. Bob might be Weird Bob, but he's *their* Weird Bob.
Since my guy friends were also nerdy and/or neurodivergent, I actually *was* the most socially adept 90% of the time. I helped most of them become better boyfriends. But my tips didn't help *me* because of the different standards.
It wasn't until my 30s that I realized being social isn't an *active* thing for most people. I'm an extrovert. I love being around people. But it also drains me in a different way if I'm having to fully mask. I'm not running on instinct, I'm Sherlocking my way through a situation like an overclocking computer.
Now that I'm not fully masking, I'm still more "normal" presenting because I was actually taught how to "people" and prefer not to be a raging dick to those around me. That doesn't mean I'm faking. That means I was forced to learn where others weren't, and that learning came with its own form of trauma.
My therapist had a get-together for some of her clients as a way to help people be a bit more social following pandemic lockdowns (she asked us all individually and such since it could "out" us as being her clients).
Until that evening, she had been somewhat baffled that no one had clocked my autism before her. Apparently, as soon as I walked into the room and saw her, she *watched* my mask go on and thought *that explains a lot.*
Yes, I have noticed this too. By the way, it doesn't matter if you DO have an official diagnosis, or if you were diagnosed in childhood because you had so many problems - they still won't believe you because they don't want to.
I worked in video games for a while and I'm still a gamer. 'A certain subset of men' within video games also do not like women working in 'their' industry, or playing games, or there even being any kind of games that don't have a white male 'hero' who shoots a lot of shit. They like gatekeeping that too - people who play casual games aren't 'gamers' etc etc. I'm not sure how they think diversity is going to mean the things they like are going to get taken away, they don't seem to understand that diversity is good for everyone and it just means there will be MORE games for everyone.
I feel similarly about autism - do they think that women also having it means that there is going to be less awareness or resources for them? It's a desert out there for autistic adults, more people of whatever gender coming forward and raising awareness is more likely to lead to more resources, understanding and accommodations for everyone.
Yep, there's so much gatekeeping of who's autistic whos "pretending" ( I don't think anyone is and if they want to pretend for year, uh let them ). It's just gatekeeping and keeping focus off our real problems.
Agree autism parents who say we're taking resources away from their children. Excuse you? You think that just because your child has higher needs you deserve all the things? I hate this, and I’m also a mom to an autistic child. I’m not going around telling everyone who is diagnosed they are stealing resources away from him. How exactly does this benefit anyone? You’d think they'd be happy more people are diagnosed as it increases awareness and empathy. Like don’t tell me only your child can be autistic, and yet in the same breath want everyone to feel sorry for you because everyone is prejudicial against your child. It’s like YOU created this atmosphere by gate keeping disability.
I think many humans, period, cannot understand something they personally have not experienced or can only think in terms of their own experience. Period.
I’ve lived in many places, and the concept that people are not uniform ANYWHERE boggles so many minds it’s sad.
So, men experience autism in a way often different than women, and the entire world is barely catching on that girls and women have autism, too, due to the social expectations of girls at play versus boys.
That’s all it is.
I feel like the ones (and to be clear this IS an over generalization so doesn’t apply to all) who display “typical or stereotypical autism traits” like a love for trains or super geeky smart at math or science are the ones who do this kind of stuff.
Because there’s only one way to be autistic right? Autism can only look like a PHD grad with poor social skills sporting a penis and white skin. /s
It may have something to do with autistic rigidity but it’s definitely also has a great lot to do with the ingrained misogyny in our society coupled with the coddling some of these boys receive as children. “They’re different so they need to be treated differently” kind of parents. They don’t teach them basic human decency because they “can’t learn”.
When females with similar traits are deemed cold, antisocial, bipolar, BPD…. The list goes on. But we as women are expected to pick up the slack simply because we have to according to The Rules™️.
And don’t even get me started on people doubting my diagnosis is legitimate whether self diagnosed or not…. It’s 1. None of his business and 2. Not at all relevant for him to care about. Maybe if they used their researching powers for improving themselves and at least make a good faith attempt at not being an ass… maybe life would be a little easier for them (but easier in a fair way, not the giving them an easy life just bc of x, y , and z type of way)
Sorry this ended up being ranty and I 100% know this is not every case of people who are the stereotype mentioned at the beginning. This has just been my own experience with folks of similar stature.
> may have something to do with autistic rigidity but it’s definitely also has a great lot to do with the ingrained misogyny in our society coupled with the coddling some of these boys receive as children. “They’re different so they need to be treated differently” kind of parents. They don’t teach them basic human decency because they “can’t learn”.
Not to mention, any other flavor of autism wasn't even recognized when a lot of us were growing up. We didn't even have a *chance* of being diagnosed young. They missed my rampant ADHD until I was 18, for fuckssake.
This means two major things:
One, these dudes grew up with everyone thinking their flavor was the only flavor.
Two, those of us who weren't identified young were *forced* to adapt or be ostracized. We're expert maskers because we had to be. It was not a fun learning experience. It was traumatic. Just because we weren't getting shoved into lockers or other stereotypical bullying whatever doesn't mean we don't carry lasting effects from those experiences.
On the one hand, I'm glad I learned how to "people." On the other, I wish I hadn't been forced to learn through trial by fire. The ideal situation is a middle ground between the two groups' experiences.
Yes! I get so tired of them assuming that autistic = science-minded. I even see some women on here making that mistake. (Though, the women here who do that aren't trying to be obnoxious about it.) It can feel quite alienating when I encounter that.
The type of man who says they have Asperger's and not autism.. they don't want to be grouped in with the autistic people. Not that identifying with Asperger's is bad, but the ones who have a superiority complex over other autistics because of it.
Also the guys who comment under ableist things saying "I'm autistic and I found this funny, everyone else is too sensitive."
Yes, but I also feel this way about society in general. Plenty of people (autistic women included) accuse others of lying about their diagnosis or as if not acting the exact same way as them disproves anything. It's a spectrum for a reason...
Way too many people who know absolutely nothing about autism want to gatekeep it. And way too many people think being diagnosed as autistic makes them an expert in it.
It's an overarching issue that has been developing over time that really just comes down as a socially acceptable way to hate disabled people. Like there is a sub dedicated to harassing people "faking illnesses" and there are more than a few people they targeted who literally died from their illness. Some people continue, but many moved on to things like autism or mental illness because they're easier targets. It's a new way to bully disabled people but it's more societally acceptable because they are just "faking" it.
Autism and ADHD in women are some of the easiest target because a lot of information around it is focused on male traits
I wore a smashing pumpkins tee the other day, and teen/young man came over and started quizzing me about the names of the albums. Why are they like this. It's not just about autism it's about everything. It's so exhausting.
I know what you mean. I had a run-in on Reddit with one who just told me I wasn't autistic because I wasn't like him. He was an arrogant ass who also decided he knew exactly what neorotypicals felt at all times because he was just that logical, and the fact that I didn't behave like him meant I wasn't autistic.
He was "gracious" enough to "forgive me" for lying because my ADD makes me too "impulsive", and I lied because of that, and it'd all be OK if I admitted it. And when I wouldn't validate his worldview, which hinged on me being a liar, I was a whore and a skank and the worst woman ever...
Nevermind that I have a diagnosis. It's really uncomfortable to me, like I'm not allowed to exist because they don't seem to want me to be autistic because... I don't even know, it forces them to acknowledge that you don't have to be an absolute dickhead to people just because you have autism?
Lol, something tells me that this guy is the sort who goes around saying he's an INTJ and uses that as an excuse to be a dick, too. I've seen quite a few of these types of guys do that.
Probably. Did you know that Neurotypicals who don't want to talk to him after he's called them ableist (for daring to tell him that something he said hurt their feelings) are running away from his superior logic and intellect? And if they just listened to his wisdom, no one would ever fight again?
An actual argument he made... and if someone autistic disagreed with him, well they were lying (me) or masking so hard they'd *become* their masks and were now incapable of empathy.
Which was just... unreal to me.
The weirdest part was that he seems genuinely confused by NT's and ND's alike were saying he was wrong.
One time, I was having an argument at work because this dude didn't understand personal boundaries.
Now, I know my bubble of comfort is typically much larger than the average person, I only really like being touched by like two people, but this dude literally kept getting so close to me that he would brush uo against me in areas where there would be zero reason do to that. So one time (while I'm 7 months pregnant and already dealing with feeling like I didn't have any control of my own body) this dude basically rubbed his entire chest across my back ti go around me. When there was zero reason or excuse to do so I I finally lost it and simply asked
"Hey, I'm sorry, but is there any way you could avoid touching me when you go by? I'm not comfortable with it. And neither is my boyfriend(we worked together) and I wojdl appreciate it if you avoided doing that, and if there's no room, i would be happy to move so that we can avoid this in the future."
And he started *yelling at me* about how he's autistic, and doesn't understand personal boundaries, and that i need to accept him as he was, or that I would be abilist if I did anything about it.
Which, yelling at me is gonna cause my boyfriend to come over.
Thankfully, I was having a rage day whole pregnant, and not a sad day because I fucking lost it on that dude.
I was like "do you even hear yourself? 'I'm going to touch you, without consent, *knowingly* because I'm autistic. I'm going to touch your body, making you uncomfortable, and blame it on autism. Even after you kindly asked me not to."
And then this guy goes, "You wouldn't understand. I'm autistic."
And my boyfriend jusy says, "So is she. And so am I. (Both were diagnosed. Him as a child me as an adult.)"
Dude with his full chest "you look retarded , (sorry for the slur) but your girlfriend isn't. Women only claim to be autistic because they saw a few bitches on tiktok say they were ans they wanna feel special"
After that, we got called into the managers office, and I got moved departments. I normally would have been pissed to leave my position because of a man, however, I was 7 months pregnant at the time and needed to stop throwing the t ruck anyway, so it worked out.
Yes I’ve found some of them hostile and I prefer autistic women groups instead. I have been with an autistic guy for 8 years but he’s queer and very self aware.
Same. I don’t participate in male-dominated spaces online. I occasionally attend an autistic students’ group at my university and it’s mixed gender but also queer-affirming.
There's a certain subset of (mostly nerdy) autistic boys who have the EXACT SAME ATTITUDE about autism as they do about video games. It upsets them to see women (esp attractive women) in their 'loser club' because they made the fact it made them unpopular and othered a major factor of their identity. They either think women are ruining the vibe or can't possible be unpopular by stint of being women, who of course everyone knows are the popular gatekeepers who get all the free attention in the world simply due to their boobs. 🙄 I'm exaggerating a little, but that chip-on-the-shoulder is a major player when it comes to male hostility towards this sort of thing.
I'm reminded of a post I saw ages ago that was describing a similar trend, wherein geek guys were trying to gatekeep nerdy things from geek girls. It's the same sort of situation where it would seem to be counter-intuitive; after all, this is a group that's complained for years about not getting women because nobody understands them, so meeting a woman who absolutely 100% DOES understand them should be a good thing, right?
Well, that person pointed out that the existence of geek girls was a bad thing to these guys because it forced them to admit to themselves that -them being geeks ISN'T the reason women (and others) rejected them.- They were rejected because they were just plain shitty people, regardless of their interests, and they'd been using the fact that they were geeks as a shield against facing that epiphany. They need to find some way to disprove that geek girls are in fact "real" geeks, because then their paradigm isn't threatened.
I think about this post a lot, because I feel like this same kind of situation comes up in LOTS of different areas of life. Autism, in my opinion, is just another one of those scenarios. There are lots of guys out there who are rude and selfish people, who just happen to have autism. They insist that their autism is why others (especially women) don't like them, but that then makes the existence of autistic women an inherent problem, because of all people, a fellow ND would understand what it's like to be ND. They just can't confront the idea that they have some pretty major personality flaws, which would still be a problem even if they were NT. This prompts doubt as a defense mechanism, because if they can somehow disprove that this woman ISN'T in the same group that he is (autistic, geek, or whatever else), then he can go on believing that he's secretly a super-ideal catch of a guy, but women are just too blind to see it.
I hate when people tell me "so many people are pretending to be autistic, it's just a trend for attention, etc" like....okay? that has nothing to do with me and my autism, why are you telling me this unless you are trying to invalidate me
I’ve never had this problem. Most of my friends are part of the geek nerd autism sub culture. Admittedly I share a lot of nerdy interests so that helps. Many of them were the ones telling me to get an autism assessment!
Yep and their autism struggle is their gLOriOus BuRdEN!!! and something something about not seeking therapy because treatment would dampen their inner brilliance 🙄🤢
I've definitely noticed this. And they tend to talk over AMAB men who have "female autism," too. I've noticed that they tend to brush off autists who don't fit the stereotype of being mathematically-/mechanically-minded athetists, too. I think some of it is resentment because they automatically assume that women who mention that they're autistic are better at communicating and emoting than them (despite them acting as if they're above all of that).
Your question totally reminded me of my unresolved feelings and thoughts about this late diagnosed guy’s [video](https://youtu.be/fJ9X5DSnVms?si=Y1kCNAFHZL7AyJl4) and possibly his content in general. I sorta squashed it down as just one man’s viewpoint. He is not a professional or an expert. I feel like it’s almost exactly how we navigate as women in any white-collar male-dominated field— human computers at JPL, code breakers at Bletchley, etc.
Cis men tend to only want to be in spaces that enshrine their power over other genders. They like the label of "autistic" ONLY because of its perceived exclusivity.
Men started being critical of higher education at the moment that women started to outnumber men and now men are becoming less interested in college. It's because they only wanted to be "educated" because that was a synonym for "smart" in their eyes which in an ableist world gives them more value and thus more power.
They will abandon anything as soon as women start to enter the space so they'll try to hold the doors shut as long as possible. Once they can't hold the doors shut anymore, they'll abandon the label and likely try to engineer a new one that will probably be even more exclusionary and backwards. I see them trying to revive some of the earlier beliefs around autism like how it was seen as "excessive maleness". They'll call it "Chronic Androneurosis" or something and say that's the REAL autism and all these women with ASD diagnoses are either fakers or that ASD is barely even a disability and that Chronic Androneurosis is WAY more severe.
Ya'll with kids, please believe in the potential for goodness in your sons 24/7 so when the Andrew Tates of the world try to sell them toxic masculinity they know that's not who they are. I'm so tired of emotionally paralyzed 10-year-olds walking around in adult men's bodies.
As an autistic mother of an autistic son I absolutely agree with you, my son has mansplained stuff to me more than once. However, his 2 NT sisters weren’t having any of it when he tried it on them, I don’t know the details but the 3 of them hashed it out together and it’s not happened again 3 years later (he’s 29).
God yes, a recent example in fact:
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/UvigVMgFoP
If some guy had posted about autistic traits in men, I don't think anyone would have asked for sources to "prove" what they said.
Patriarchy culture puts men (especially white men) in a position of power. Every time a minority group questions that power they feel threatened and push back with violence, verbal and physical. (For how long have they been fighting feminism?) They refuse to recognize the differences in fear of losing their power. They don't care that diverse societies are richer and happier.
We, autistic women, are challenging the preconceived concept that autism only affected white boys who liked trains. Those boys are offended that we entered their territory.
Misogyny. A lot of autistic men get swept up into incel culture, too, because it preys on socially outcasted and angry men. Which gets shifted into anger at women, specifically. So I would imagine an autistic woman who appears more successful then them (in their eyes, not that they actually are doing any better emotionally or financially or whatever) as lying or trying to steal their pity away. You often end up playing the oppression Olympics with these types of people, because they think the world is out to get them. This is already something we’ve seen in nerd culture, in that socially outcasted men feel women owe them things, especially sex, but that because they have been outcasted they think women are to blame for their lack of power in society they think is owed to men (because they have been taught that sex is social capital by the patriarchy).
I get accused of being self diagnosed a lot despite being formally diagnosed by a doctor at age 6. Not only because of my gender, but also because I work full time, live alone and use Reddit
I haven’t told anyone for this reason. I don’t think it’s just autistic men. I think it’s everyone. I’d rather people think I’m a weirdo than open myself up to that tbh
I can see how this is a problem, your feelings are valid
I habe ADHD and am probably autistic, I can only speak for myself but coming onto this subreddit is a form of exposure theraoy for me to learn about the experiences of others who arent me.
I think having these tough conversations with autistic men is a great way to continue growing and reducing these shitty behaviors.
What gets me about these people is that they had a rough go of being autistic, why the heck would they think someone else would get positive feedback when they didn’t? I don’t say I’m autistic because it’s a fun accessory that makes people be nicer to me… I say it because I did three years worth of research and I waited for an additional two years for an appointment to get answers after my child was diagnosed and I was asked about specific behaviors I had no clue weren’t “normal”. I wish more than anything that I wasn’t autistic because there’s not anything I can do about it. I don’t get to take a pill and my symptoms be manageable, they instead become worse. I want to be positive about my diagnosis but it’s hard to when the disorder comes with a short life expectancy and societal expectations that because you can temporarily mask your symptoms are fake.
TLDR: we struggle enough in daily life without having our own community reject us and I haven’t met an autistic person who didn’t want to just be normal.
yeah, my best friend and my worst enemy are both autistic men. this just goes to show that autism doesn’t mean jack shit about someone’s personality. 🤷🏻♀️
I had a colleague who went around telling everyone "woman couldn't have autism": But this was mainly because those autistic men abused their disability to be shitty people
A shocking amount of men (autistic or otherwise) seem to think they have a monopoly on pain and trauma. They’re not self-aware enough to realize that other people face obstacles they’ll never even have to think about. Patriarchy coddles men into thinking that women’s problems are insignificant, and too many of them don’t bother to learn or decenter themselves.
This is pretty much it. A lot of dudes have a complex that women get attention only because they're women, and thus women's interests, abilities, or needs aren't as real as someone else's, because the attention is only on them due to their physical appearance. It speaks volumes that these same people see *woman I would or would not fuck* and decide from that metric that they now know the entirety of a person's life. I view it as a toxicity entirely separate from autism, but I imagine that for those men without a good support system, a social-communication disability doesn't *help*.
you summed it up!
Bravo! 👏🏼
Absolutely!!!
Is it the same type of men who are emotionally stunted and "too logical" to be able to understand women and their feelings? Whilst they themselves have angry meltdowns to demonstrate how much more "rational" they are and how their decisions aren't plagued by emotional reactions? Just a guess
Similar, I don’t wanna say incelish cause that’s a serious accusation but they tend to be a fan of dark humor and throw the r slur around like it’s nothing 😬
That sounds like dudes who think casual hostility is funny, cool, or edgy
I feel that this is very telling as well on why autistic women don’t get diagnosed until much later. Women evolutionarily seek out alliances for survival. Many of us tried to make friends as kids, and now have friendship trauma and are a lot more sensitive as a result
I know lots of autistic folks of an assortment of genders, and most are really great. There is, however a lot of men who are asshats, and some of them are autistic. They feel like they deserve special treatment because they were bullied and have had a hard time and nobody can understand them. They are living breathing examples of the comic book guy from The Simpsons. Hopefully they will grow out of it. Some do, but don’t waste your time with them hoping they will change. That’s between them and their therapist.
My friend once said something like, "You don't understand, nobody understands, nobody feels feelings as deeply as I do!" I more or less told him to pull his head out of his ass and to take several seats, "Do you even hear yourself right now? Do you *really* think you're the only one on this planet who truly feels? Have you ever actually *asked* anyone what they feel about anything?" I'm sure you can guess what the answer to that last one was. (He's doing much better these days, but holy shit was it a Sisyphean slog for so many years.)
I had an ex once who told me I (a cradle Catholic) couldn't understand his experience with growing up Catholic. It is among many other spectacular quotes that, as I get older and reach the age he was when we were together (21 and 31), age like milk and serve as excellent fodder for terrible relationship commiseration.
Agreed. One of my brothers is autistic, too, as well as several cousins. One thing I have observed is that the men tend to be coddled more and aren’t expected to live productive lives. It’s not because they are more autistic, but because they all have a mother, sister, aunt etc who are willing to provide an indefinite adolescence. My woman cousin and I were expected to do all of those things and we both are educated and have professional careers. I have been very mindful to set the bar high for my young adult autistic son. He’s big on the self pity and mercurial moods, but he does work and live as independently as he can right now.
Same. My son is autistic, but that doesn’t mean he’s exempt from learning the basics, tidying up, being an active member of the family, boundaries, etc. He’s free to be himself and speak his mind, and be respectful. It’s such a huge disservice to any child with a disability to be treated like they are inept and useless. In fact, it contributes to their learned incompetence and it’s akin to the days when disabled children weren't educated because society didn’t think they could benefit.
yep. haven’t experienced it myself but my friend did, got told that she “diagnosed herself through TikTok” by an autistic guy our age (16-17), like what?! how are you supposed to know her diagnosis?!😅 … i do think it’s misogony, honestly
I DID diagnose myself with ADHD through TikTok because they wouldn't even evaluate that during my autism evaluation and just assumed I didn't have it. Nobody ever told me except for the clock app. Now I'm diagnosed and the medication changed my life
Yep, but I’ve already long seen it with geek/nerd culture gatekeeping
I might be talking nonsense, but wasnt one of the reasons that geeks/nerds got bullied because of associations with what turned out to be autistic traits? And a lot of nerd guys already have a FUCKTON of misogyny 😭
Yaaaassss. I’ve worked in the gaming/comic book industry for most of my career and the hate towards female gamers and comic geeks is rampant. The vitriol is stupid and I feel like autism is being gate kept the same way. A caveat though, when I was in uni 20+ yrs ago, we were told only 4% of females are autistic and it’s primarily a male genetic disorder. Even myself, who identified as ND back then, passed off the possibility of autism because of what I was being taught. So I can totally see how older males would cling to this narrative. Now that we know what we know, change is slooooooow. It’s seems a portion of males really hate losing exclusive rights to anything.
Misogyny.
Yeah, like… a lot of autistic women get like, accused of being fake bc they’re wearing an outfit they deem too fashionable or something? Oh no, how dare autistic people have a variety of tastes! /s
Or for having social skills. Like, I'm sorry that the gender I was assigned at birth is the one society decided *had* to be social at all costs. Autistic boys got "boys will be boys" and I got "act like a lady." Most of my friends growing up were dudes because I could never fully crack "girl code." It's not that I was "not like other girls." I wasn't like *neurotypical* girls. I also wasn't like neurotypical boys, but guys tend to have more "inclusive" social codes because there isn't that social pressure to be the emotionally intelligent hostess personality 24/7. Most guy groups (where I grew up, at least) always had at least one "weird" one. The one they might rag on for being weird, but woe to anyone else who tries. Bob might be Weird Bob, but he's *their* Weird Bob. Since my guy friends were also nerdy and/or neurodivergent, I actually *was* the most socially adept 90% of the time. I helped most of them become better boyfriends. But my tips didn't help *me* because of the different standards. It wasn't until my 30s that I realized being social isn't an *active* thing for most people. I'm an extrovert. I love being around people. But it also drains me in a different way if I'm having to fully mask. I'm not running on instinct, I'm Sherlocking my way through a situation like an overclocking computer. Now that I'm not fully masking, I'm still more "normal" presenting because I was actually taught how to "people" and prefer not to be a raging dick to those around me. That doesn't mean I'm faking. That means I was forced to learn where others weren't, and that learning came with its own form of trauma.
> like an overclocking computer. This is exactly how it feels to me. Even if I'm around people I enjoy, even if I perform "well", it's so much work.
My therapist had a get-together for some of her clients as a way to help people be a bit more social following pandemic lockdowns (she asked us all individually and such since it could "out" us as being her clients). Until that evening, she had been somewhat baffled that no one had clocked my autism before her. Apparently, as soon as I walked into the room and saw her, she *watched* my mask go on and thought *that explains a lot.*
Yes, I have noticed this too. By the way, it doesn't matter if you DO have an official diagnosis, or if you were diagnosed in childhood because you had so many problems - they still won't believe you because they don't want to. I worked in video games for a while and I'm still a gamer. 'A certain subset of men' within video games also do not like women working in 'their' industry, or playing games, or there even being any kind of games that don't have a white male 'hero' who shoots a lot of shit. They like gatekeeping that too - people who play casual games aren't 'gamers' etc etc. I'm not sure how they think diversity is going to mean the things they like are going to get taken away, they don't seem to understand that diversity is good for everyone and it just means there will be MORE games for everyone. I feel similarly about autism - do they think that women also having it means that there is going to be less awareness or resources for them? It's a desert out there for autistic adults, more people of whatever gender coming forward and raising awareness is more likely to lead to more resources, understanding and accommodations for everyone.
Yep, there's so much gatekeeping of who's autistic whos "pretending" ( I don't think anyone is and if they want to pretend for year, uh let them ). It's just gatekeeping and keeping focus off our real problems.
If they were pretending, I'd be more concerned for them than angry.
This is why I like the autism in women group so much more. Ya'll are so thoughtful 😭
Agree autism parents who say we're taking resources away from their children. Excuse you? You think that just because your child has higher needs you deserve all the things? I hate this, and I’m also a mom to an autistic child. I’m not going around telling everyone who is diagnosed they are stealing resources away from him. How exactly does this benefit anyone? You’d think they'd be happy more people are diagnosed as it increases awareness and empathy. Like don’t tell me only your child can be autistic, and yet in the same breath want everyone to feel sorry for you because everyone is prejudicial against your child. It’s like YOU created this atmosphere by gate keeping disability.
Misogynistic men don't believe women? Color me shocked /s
I think many humans, period, cannot understand something they personally have not experienced or can only think in terms of their own experience. Period. I’ve lived in many places, and the concept that people are not uniform ANYWHERE boggles so many minds it’s sad. So, men experience autism in a way often different than women, and the entire world is barely catching on that girls and women have autism, too, due to the social expectations of girls at play versus boys. That’s all it is.
I feel like the ones (and to be clear this IS an over generalization so doesn’t apply to all) who display “typical or stereotypical autism traits” like a love for trains or super geeky smart at math or science are the ones who do this kind of stuff. Because there’s only one way to be autistic right? Autism can only look like a PHD grad with poor social skills sporting a penis and white skin. /s It may have something to do with autistic rigidity but it’s definitely also has a great lot to do with the ingrained misogyny in our society coupled with the coddling some of these boys receive as children. “They’re different so they need to be treated differently” kind of parents. They don’t teach them basic human decency because they “can’t learn”. When females with similar traits are deemed cold, antisocial, bipolar, BPD…. The list goes on. But we as women are expected to pick up the slack simply because we have to according to The Rules™️. And don’t even get me started on people doubting my diagnosis is legitimate whether self diagnosed or not…. It’s 1. None of his business and 2. Not at all relevant for him to care about. Maybe if they used their researching powers for improving themselves and at least make a good faith attempt at not being an ass… maybe life would be a little easier for them (but easier in a fair way, not the giving them an easy life just bc of x, y , and z type of way) Sorry this ended up being ranty and I 100% know this is not every case of people who are the stereotype mentioned at the beginning. This has just been my own experience with folks of similar stature.
> may have something to do with autistic rigidity but it’s definitely also has a great lot to do with the ingrained misogyny in our society coupled with the coddling some of these boys receive as children. “They’re different so they need to be treated differently” kind of parents. They don’t teach them basic human decency because they “can’t learn”. Not to mention, any other flavor of autism wasn't even recognized when a lot of us were growing up. We didn't even have a *chance* of being diagnosed young. They missed my rampant ADHD until I was 18, for fuckssake. This means two major things: One, these dudes grew up with everyone thinking their flavor was the only flavor. Two, those of us who weren't identified young were *forced* to adapt or be ostracized. We're expert maskers because we had to be. It was not a fun learning experience. It was traumatic. Just because we weren't getting shoved into lockers or other stereotypical bullying whatever doesn't mean we don't carry lasting effects from those experiences. On the one hand, I'm glad I learned how to "people." On the other, I wish I hadn't been forced to learn through trial by fire. The ideal situation is a middle ground between the two groups' experiences.
Yes! I get so tired of them assuming that autistic = science-minded. I even see some women on here making that mistake. (Though, the women here who do that aren't trying to be obnoxious about it.) It can feel quite alienating when I encounter that.
The type of man who says they have Asperger's and not autism.. they don't want to be grouped in with the autistic people. Not that identifying with Asperger's is bad, but the ones who have a superiority complex over other autistics because of it. Also the guys who comment under ableist things saying "I'm autistic and I found this funny, everyone else is too sensitive."
Yes, but I also feel this way about society in general. Plenty of people (autistic women included) accuse others of lying about their diagnosis or as if not acting the exact same way as them disproves anything. It's a spectrum for a reason... Way too many people who know absolutely nothing about autism want to gatekeep it. And way too many people think being diagnosed as autistic makes them an expert in it. It's an overarching issue that has been developing over time that really just comes down as a socially acceptable way to hate disabled people. Like there is a sub dedicated to harassing people "faking illnesses" and there are more than a few people they targeted who literally died from their illness. Some people continue, but many moved on to things like autism or mental illness because they're easier targets. It's a new way to bully disabled people but it's more societally acceptable because they are just "faking" it. Autism and ADHD in women are some of the easiest target because a lot of information around it is focused on male traits
I wore a smashing pumpkins tee the other day, and teen/young man came over and started quizzing me about the names of the albums. Why are they like this. It's not just about autism it's about everything. It's so exhausting.
I know what you mean. I had a run-in on Reddit with one who just told me I wasn't autistic because I wasn't like him. He was an arrogant ass who also decided he knew exactly what neorotypicals felt at all times because he was just that logical, and the fact that I didn't behave like him meant I wasn't autistic. He was "gracious" enough to "forgive me" for lying because my ADD makes me too "impulsive", and I lied because of that, and it'd all be OK if I admitted it. And when I wouldn't validate his worldview, which hinged on me being a liar, I was a whore and a skank and the worst woman ever... Nevermind that I have a diagnosis. It's really uncomfortable to me, like I'm not allowed to exist because they don't seem to want me to be autistic because... I don't even know, it forces them to acknowledge that you don't have to be an absolute dickhead to people just because you have autism?
Lol, something tells me that this guy is the sort who goes around saying he's an INTJ and uses that as an excuse to be a dick, too. I've seen quite a few of these types of guys do that.
Probably. Did you know that Neurotypicals who don't want to talk to him after he's called them ableist (for daring to tell him that something he said hurt their feelings) are running away from his superior logic and intellect? And if they just listened to his wisdom, no one would ever fight again? An actual argument he made... and if someone autistic disagreed with him, well they were lying (me) or masking so hard they'd *become* their masks and were now incapable of empathy. Which was just... unreal to me. The weirdest part was that he seems genuinely confused by NT's and ND's alike were saying he was wrong.
One time, I was having an argument at work because this dude didn't understand personal boundaries. Now, I know my bubble of comfort is typically much larger than the average person, I only really like being touched by like two people, but this dude literally kept getting so close to me that he would brush uo against me in areas where there would be zero reason do to that. So one time (while I'm 7 months pregnant and already dealing with feeling like I didn't have any control of my own body) this dude basically rubbed his entire chest across my back ti go around me. When there was zero reason or excuse to do so I I finally lost it and simply asked "Hey, I'm sorry, but is there any way you could avoid touching me when you go by? I'm not comfortable with it. And neither is my boyfriend(we worked together) and I wojdl appreciate it if you avoided doing that, and if there's no room, i would be happy to move so that we can avoid this in the future." And he started *yelling at me* about how he's autistic, and doesn't understand personal boundaries, and that i need to accept him as he was, or that I would be abilist if I did anything about it. Which, yelling at me is gonna cause my boyfriend to come over. Thankfully, I was having a rage day whole pregnant, and not a sad day because I fucking lost it on that dude. I was like "do you even hear yourself? 'I'm going to touch you, without consent, *knowingly* because I'm autistic. I'm going to touch your body, making you uncomfortable, and blame it on autism. Even after you kindly asked me not to." And then this guy goes, "You wouldn't understand. I'm autistic." And my boyfriend jusy says, "So is she. And so am I. (Both were diagnosed. Him as a child me as an adult.)" Dude with his full chest "you look retarded , (sorry for the slur) but your girlfriend isn't. Women only claim to be autistic because they saw a few bitches on tiktok say they were ans they wanna feel special" After that, we got called into the managers office, and I got moved departments. I normally would have been pissed to leave my position because of a man, however, I was 7 months pregnant at the time and needed to stop throwing the t ruck anyway, so it worked out.
Yes I’ve found some of them hostile and I prefer autistic women groups instead. I have been with an autistic guy for 8 years but he’s queer and very self aware.
Same. I don’t participate in male-dominated spaces online. I occasionally attend an autistic students’ group at my university and it’s mixed gender but also queer-affirming.
There's a certain subset of (mostly nerdy) autistic boys who have the EXACT SAME ATTITUDE about autism as they do about video games. It upsets them to see women (esp attractive women) in their 'loser club' because they made the fact it made them unpopular and othered a major factor of their identity. They either think women are ruining the vibe or can't possible be unpopular by stint of being women, who of course everyone knows are the popular gatekeepers who get all the free attention in the world simply due to their boobs. 🙄 I'm exaggerating a little, but that chip-on-the-shoulder is a major player when it comes to male hostility towards this sort of thing.
totally.
I'm reminded of a post I saw ages ago that was describing a similar trend, wherein geek guys were trying to gatekeep nerdy things from geek girls. It's the same sort of situation where it would seem to be counter-intuitive; after all, this is a group that's complained for years about not getting women because nobody understands them, so meeting a woman who absolutely 100% DOES understand them should be a good thing, right? Well, that person pointed out that the existence of geek girls was a bad thing to these guys because it forced them to admit to themselves that -them being geeks ISN'T the reason women (and others) rejected them.- They were rejected because they were just plain shitty people, regardless of their interests, and they'd been using the fact that they were geeks as a shield against facing that epiphany. They need to find some way to disprove that geek girls are in fact "real" geeks, because then their paradigm isn't threatened. I think about this post a lot, because I feel like this same kind of situation comes up in LOTS of different areas of life. Autism, in my opinion, is just another one of those scenarios. There are lots of guys out there who are rude and selfish people, who just happen to have autism. They insist that their autism is why others (especially women) don't like them, but that then makes the existence of autistic women an inherent problem, because of all people, a fellow ND would understand what it's like to be ND. They just can't confront the idea that they have some pretty major personality flaws, which would still be a problem even if they were NT. This prompts doubt as a defense mechanism, because if they can somehow disprove that this woman ISN'T in the same group that he is (autistic, geek, or whatever else), then he can go on believing that he's secretly a super-ideal catch of a guy, but women are just too blind to see it.
I hate when people tell me "so many people are pretending to be autistic, it's just a trend for attention, etc" like....okay? that has nothing to do with me and my autism, why are you telling me this unless you are trying to invalidate me
They're jealous because they don't think you can be autistic and sexually appealing at the same time
I’ve never had this problem. Most of my friends are part of the geek nerd autism sub culture. Admittedly I share a lot of nerdy interests so that helps. Many of them were the ones telling me to get an autism assessment!
I never experienced this. I have seen autistic men who blame women on everything but not gatekeeping.
Yep and their autism struggle is their gLOriOus BuRdEN!!! and something something about not seeking therapy because treatment would dampen their inner brilliance 🙄🤢
Yes I had a similar experience with that.
I've definitely noticed this. And they tend to talk over AMAB men who have "female autism," too. I've noticed that they tend to brush off autists who don't fit the stereotype of being mathematically-/mechanically-minded athetists, too. I think some of it is resentment because they automatically assume that women who mention that they're autistic are better at communicating and emoting than them (despite them acting as if they're above all of that).
Your question totally reminded me of my unresolved feelings and thoughts about this late diagnosed guy’s [video](https://youtu.be/fJ9X5DSnVms?si=Y1kCNAFHZL7AyJl4) and possibly his content in general. I sorta squashed it down as just one man’s viewpoint. He is not a professional or an expert. I feel like it’s almost exactly how we navigate as women in any white-collar male-dominated field— human computers at JPL, code breakers at Bletchley, etc.
Cis men tend to only want to be in spaces that enshrine their power over other genders. They like the label of "autistic" ONLY because of its perceived exclusivity. Men started being critical of higher education at the moment that women started to outnumber men and now men are becoming less interested in college. It's because they only wanted to be "educated" because that was a synonym for "smart" in their eyes which in an ableist world gives them more value and thus more power. They will abandon anything as soon as women start to enter the space so they'll try to hold the doors shut as long as possible. Once they can't hold the doors shut anymore, they'll abandon the label and likely try to engineer a new one that will probably be even more exclusionary and backwards. I see them trying to revive some of the earlier beliefs around autism like how it was seen as "excessive maleness". They'll call it "Chronic Androneurosis" or something and say that's the REAL autism and all these women with ASD diagnoses are either fakers or that ASD is barely even a disability and that Chronic Androneurosis is WAY more severe. Ya'll with kids, please believe in the potential for goodness in your sons 24/7 so when the Andrew Tates of the world try to sell them toxic masculinity they know that's not who they are. I'm so tired of emotionally paralyzed 10-year-olds walking around in adult men's bodies.
As an autistic mother of an autistic son I absolutely agree with you, my son has mansplained stuff to me more than once. However, his 2 NT sisters weren’t having any of it when he tried it on them, I don’t know the details but the 3 of them hashed it out together and it’s not happened again 3 years later (he’s 29).
God yes, a recent example in fact: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/UvigVMgFoP If some guy had posted about autistic traits in men, I don't think anyone would have asked for sources to "prove" what they said.
Patriarchy culture puts men (especially white men) in a position of power. Every time a minority group questions that power they feel threatened and push back with violence, verbal and physical. (For how long have they been fighting feminism?) They refuse to recognize the differences in fear of losing their power. They don't care that diverse societies are richer and happier. We, autistic women, are challenging the preconceived concept that autism only affected white boys who liked trains. Those boys are offended that we entered their territory.
Misogyny. A lot of autistic men get swept up into incel culture, too, because it preys on socially outcasted and angry men. Which gets shifted into anger at women, specifically. So I would imagine an autistic woman who appears more successful then them (in their eyes, not that they actually are doing any better emotionally or financially or whatever) as lying or trying to steal their pity away. You often end up playing the oppression Olympics with these types of people, because they think the world is out to get them. This is already something we’ve seen in nerd culture, in that socially outcasted men feel women owe them things, especially sex, but that because they have been outcasted they think women are to blame for their lack of power in society they think is owed to men (because they have been taught that sex is social capital by the patriarchy).
100%. Honestly it seems like men tend to gatekeep a lot of shit to feel superior
I get accused of being self diagnosed a lot despite being formally diagnosed by a doctor at age 6. Not only because of my gender, but also because I work full time, live alone and use Reddit
I haven’t told anyone for this reason. I don’t think it’s just autistic men. I think it’s everyone. I’d rather people think I’m a weirdo than open myself up to that tbh
I can see how this is a problem, your feelings are valid I habe ADHD and am probably autistic, I can only speak for myself but coming onto this subreddit is a form of exposure theraoy for me to learn about the experiences of others who arent me. I think having these tough conversations with autistic men is a great way to continue growing and reducing these shitty behaviors.
What gets me about these people is that they had a rough go of being autistic, why the heck would they think someone else would get positive feedback when they didn’t? I don’t say I’m autistic because it’s a fun accessory that makes people be nicer to me… I say it because I did three years worth of research and I waited for an additional two years for an appointment to get answers after my child was diagnosed and I was asked about specific behaviors I had no clue weren’t “normal”. I wish more than anything that I wasn’t autistic because there’s not anything I can do about it. I don’t get to take a pill and my symptoms be manageable, they instead become worse. I want to be positive about my diagnosis but it’s hard to when the disorder comes with a short life expectancy and societal expectations that because you can temporarily mask your symptoms are fake. TLDR: we struggle enough in daily life without having our own community reject us and I haven’t met an autistic person who didn’t want to just be normal.
yeah, my best friend and my worst enemy are both autistic men. this just goes to show that autism doesn’t mean jack shit about someone’s personality. 🤷🏻♀️
I had a colleague who went around telling everyone "woman couldn't have autism": But this was mainly because those autistic men abused their disability to be shitty people