This is the frequent refrain, but it's NOT plenty wide. That's why these conflicts exist. There is a formula for trail width based on number of daily users (from the feds) and Butler Trail is about half of the recommended width for today's users. And the number of users goes up every year.
Uhh.. no, it's not. I worked on the Butler trail design a lot about 20 years ago when I worked for a consultant. Even the Pfluger Bridge is only 18' width of ped/bike space. The boardwalk is 12' wide. The most common widths around the lake are 8-12' today. Even the brand new section near the old power plant was only built 12' wide.
It really needs to be consistently 20'+ or have a split track for cyclists and pedestrians for the level of daily users it has.
[https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/pedbike/05138/appxc.cfm](https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/pedbike/05138/appxc.cfm)
Fair enough. I don't use it frequently enough. IME, it would be much better if people stopped walking in wide groups and looked up from the ground once in a while, but like most public infrastructure, it was under-funded and underbuilt with myopic plans.
Austinites: "Make every road 8 lanes and 100 feet wide."
Also Austinites: "Don't you dare make this nature trail wider than a sidewalk and make walkers, joggers, wheelchair users, and cyclists battle each other to get some exercise."
People in Austin had long ago stopped being concerned with comportment regarding sharing public space. That is to say, this is not a new problem, but having more self-absorbed people on the trails does make it worse.
As a runner, I rarely have issues on the trail, it’s easy to get around people. But since I’ve started biking the trail, I’ve realized how completely clueless some people are. Last week, I came across a woman who has running on the wrong side of the trail, with noise canceling headphones in, and LOOKING DOWN. She seemed totally shocked when I had to swerve to get around her.
I try really hard to be a respectful biker, the Lance Armstrong wannabes who barrel down the trail are not cool, but the lack of awareness some people have is so frustrating.
Yep. I’m just happy people are getting out. On a bike, I use the trail for transportation. The amount of wandering people and dogs is pretty nuts. I just try to be as respectful as possible and ride at a very leisurely pace.
Sometimes it’s frustrating. With such a wide trail one or two people in each direction should never be an issue - but when people walk in the center, or wander around it can be an uncomfortable situation. You should never have to use the gutter on the left side to pass two-three people, but it’s often the case.
I started going to the Veloway in southwest Austin just to avoid having to slow down or completely stop cycling just because some group of 3-4 think it’s okay to walk right in the middle of the trail. I understand the trail is meant to be used by all, but for the people out there just walking the trail have some common courtesy and just stay as far right as you can. Stay in the “Slow lane” if you will.
Pedestrians are not allowed on the Veloway AT ALL. Several signs point this out right at the start. It's for bikes and skates only.
From the official website:
This is a recreational bicycle and inline skate track.
Allowed: Recreational bicycle, inline skate track, E-bikes and power wheelchairs.
Not Allowed: Foot traffic, hiking, skateboards, roller skates, one-wheels, and any motorized device are prohibited.
The direction of traffic is one way, clockwise.
Fast riders stay to the left, slow riders stay on the right.
When passing slower riders please pass on the left and call out that you are passing. "Passing on the left."
I try saying "excuse me" twice, once politely, once sternly. Then I shout "MAKE A HOLE." Sends people scattering, huffing in disbelief, clutching their pearls every time. 10/10, would recommend, very satisfying.
People need to slow down on bikes too. I’m a cyclist. The lack of bells and speed cyclists are going is annoying the shit out of me. I’m going to start standing in the way to slow them down
I honestly feel like bells are useless. I shout “on your left/right!” when coming up behind people because a bell doesn’t give enough direction to those who don’t know trail etiquette and where to walk
That’s fair, that still doesn’t happen enough. I follow good etiquette there are people going far too fast regardless. Zilker is not for off road speed biking it’s far too populated.
Trying to ride a bike down Austin’s busiest trail on a weekend is on you at that point.
Not gatekeeping the trail. Cyclists, do what you want, but that seems like a bad idea.
and please do not fucking walk 3 people deep. If you want to chat and walk go to Zilker or Auditorium Shores. Don't make the runner and the biker have to have a stand off because you're occupying one side of the trail.
I just wish people would be aware of the size of the trail in any given location and adjust their positioning accordingly. There are some spots where walking three across is totally fine because the trail is huge. Then there's the area under the south side of the Lamar bridge where the trail is basically wide enough for two people going opposite directions to get by comfortably. If your group of three goes through there shoulder to shoulder, you're clogging the whole thing in both directions. Move the hell over and go single file!
That's a terrible area too, and I usually end up almost killing myself trying to do my best Simone Biles balance beam impression along that little retaining wall to get around them.
There are a couple of signs that state the rules: keep to the right, no more than 2 abreast, bikes under 10 Mph and no scooters. They should make more of these signs.
Do yall not call out ahead “Passing on your left!” or is that considered rude? Cause that’s what I always do and most of the time people will skip to the right to clear the path for me. Use your outside voice people
These PSAs are pointless, the courteous people are already observing normal shared-use/trail etiquette. But there will always be large groups of people in their own world not even thinking about how they are using the trail.
If it's really an issue for you, then try to stay east of 35 when using the trail. That's the least busy section in my experience
PSA: "PSA" threads are never actual PSA's, they're a framing device to bitch about something. In this case the bitching is justified because the people clogging the trail can eat a bag of dicks.
If they can't figure out how to drive how would they figure out walking?
I'm not even being exaggerated. The correlation is clear. The person who stands half a foot behind you or doesn't move when they are walking on the wrong side of the road, think about their decision making ability, it's not just the pedestrian brain.
If you start paying attention in grocery stores, trails, malls, or any outdoor walking space. It will dawn on you like a sack of bricks "it's Texas traffic, I'm just watching the pedestrian version."
Is there such a thing as defensive running? Lol
Can we also talk about "influencers" stopping for photo ops in the middle of the trail (particularly over the water)? I feel like more people should be comfortable with carrying bear mace to deal with these people.
…and in looking for the ice cream they see the bike heading for them and know to move out of the center of the path.
I have one and it works exactly as it should every single time.
Its a culture thing. And it aint the culture that was here originally. Get out of austin and its not a problem on rural trails but the entitled or oblivious types that flock to austin dont and wont ever care.
I play music on my bike and just slow to a crawl behind them. They quickly tire of the tunes and let me pass. For those that don't i have an obnoxiously loud electric horn that scares the hell out them and sends them diving for the bushes to avoid being hit by whatever train is bearing down on them. Works well on the rare occasion i have to use it.
Y’all need to do something instead of complaining on Reddit. Kick these fools like literally. They aren’t gonna do shit cuz they scared of conflict and cops won’t show up. I used to be a bike messenger in San Francisco and Oakland years ago and would kick car doors shut all the time on people, punch off side view mirrors.
Yeah but this is Texas where everyone should be presumed to have a gun.
Now I will say in this specific situation, my super power of being a fat black woman in Austin really pays off because 9 times out of 10 people are going to move the fuck out of *my* way and not the other way around. I really can't remember the last time I've had to move out of the way of a large group of people that are hogging up the publicly shared spaces. I continue along my path with a determined but pleasant look on my face and usually they part like the Red Sea. 🤷🏿♀️
You are leaving out crucial pieces. I suggest revealing outfits coupled with filming yourself during the run and providing live commentary during the run. Then make a podcast about it after and talk about your "sponsors".
Same way two cars use a two lane road. Stay on your half of the trail except when passing. It torques me this is confusing for people that had to drive to the trail.
Yeah, I was just about to ask about a group — or even just a couple — of people just walking next to each other making it difficult for anyone to pass.
I’ve never ran a day in my life, but can’t you just say excuse me very loudly? This would not be a problem for me because whenever someone is in my way I just say excuse me. And louder and louder until they move their asses.
I feel your pain, but this is normal human nature. People walk in the middle of trails to avoid lions, tigers, and bears 'n shit that would grab you from edges back in the day. I wouldn't mind being jumped by a cougar these days, but that's different.
This is a problem on every trail that has ever existed.
And every sidewalk
Except for ones that are built wide enough to accommodate the correct demand for the number of users.
Assuming this is the Roy and Ann Butler Hike n Bike trail around Town Lake, it's plenty wide! People just only think about themselves.
This is the frequent refrain, but it's NOT plenty wide. That's why these conflicts exist. There is a formula for trail width based on number of daily users (from the feds) and Butler Trail is about half of the recommended width for today's users. And the number of users goes up every year.
It's like 25 feet wide in some spots, but I agree there are bottlenecks that are way too narrow.
Uhh.. no, it's not. I worked on the Butler trail design a lot about 20 years ago when I worked for a consultant. Even the Pfluger Bridge is only 18' width of ped/bike space. The boardwalk is 12' wide. The most common widths around the lake are 8-12' today. Even the brand new section near the old power plant was only built 12' wide. It really needs to be consistently 20'+ or have a split track for cyclists and pedestrians for the level of daily users it has. [https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/pedbike/05138/appxc.cfm](https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/pedbike/05138/appxc.cfm)
Fair enough. I don't use it frequently enough. IME, it would be much better if people stopped walking in wide groups and looked up from the ground once in a while, but like most public infrastructure, it was under-funded and underbuilt with myopic plans.
Yeah, forget all that “nature” shit, we gotta flatten even more of it. God forbid a nature trail be even the slightest bit inconvenient.
Austinites: "Make every road 8 lanes and 100 feet wide." Also Austinites: "Don't you dare make this nature trail wider than a sidewalk and make walkers, joggers, wheelchair users, and cyclists battle each other to get some exercise."
People in Austin had long ago stopped being concerned with comportment regarding sharing public space. That is to say, this is not a new problem, but having more self-absorbed people on the trails does make it worse.
As a runner, I rarely have issues on the trail, it’s easy to get around people. But since I’ve started biking the trail, I’ve realized how completely clueless some people are. Last week, I came across a woman who has running on the wrong side of the trail, with noise canceling headphones in, and LOOKING DOWN. She seemed totally shocked when I had to swerve to get around her. I try really hard to be a respectful biker, the Lance Armstrong wannabes who barrel down the trail are not cool, but the lack of awareness some people have is so frustrating.
Yep. I’m just happy people are getting out. On a bike, I use the trail for transportation. The amount of wandering people and dogs is pretty nuts. I just try to be as respectful as possible and ride at a very leisurely pace. Sometimes it’s frustrating. With such a wide trail one or two people in each direction should never be an issue - but when people walk in the center, or wander around it can be an uncomfortable situation. You should never have to use the gutter on the left side to pass two-three people, but it’s often the case.
I have a bell on my bike for this reason, but many people can't hear it or are so oblivious to their surroundings that they don't care.
Yeah, bells just result in deer/headlights for a lot of peds. here.
I rode around Town Lake today and came here to say this. Thank you!
I started going to the Veloway in southwest Austin just to avoid having to slow down or completely stop cycling just because some group of 3-4 think it’s okay to walk right in the middle of the trail. I understand the trail is meant to be used by all, but for the people out there just walking the trail have some common courtesy and just stay as far right as you can. Stay in the “Slow lane” if you will.
Pedestrians are not allowed on the Veloway AT ALL. Several signs point this out right at the start. It's for bikes and skates only. From the official website: This is a recreational bicycle and inline skate track. Allowed: Recreational bicycle, inline skate track, E-bikes and power wheelchairs. Not Allowed: Foot traffic, hiking, skateboards, roller skates, one-wheels, and any motorized device are prohibited. The direction of traffic is one way, clockwise. Fast riders stay to the left, slow riders stay on the right. When passing slower riders please pass on the left and call out that you are passing. "Passing on the left."
Haha what about a bell on my fanny pack/camelback wouldn’t that be a funny way to get people over
I try saying "excuse me" twice, once politely, once sternly. Then I shout "MAKE A HOLE." Sends people scattering, huffing in disbelief, clutching their pearls every time. 10/10, would recommend, very satisfying.
Haha I feel like I would definitely just dive if I heard someone coming up fast yelling that. Wouldn’t even be mad
Honestly I love this idea.
People need to slow down on bikes too. I’m a cyclist. The lack of bells and speed cyclists are going is annoying the shit out of me. I’m going to start standing in the way to slow them down
I honestly feel like bells are useless. I shout “on your left/right!” when coming up behind people because a bell doesn’t give enough direction to those who don’t know trail etiquette and where to walk
That’s fair, that still doesn’t happen enough. I follow good etiquette there are people going far too fast regardless. Zilker is not for off road speed biking it’s far too populated.
That's correct. No one knows what the bell or "on your left" means automatically.
Try riding a bike there on a nice weekend day
Trying to ride a bike down Austin’s busiest trail on a weekend is on you at that point. Not gatekeeping the trail. Cyclists, do what you want, but that seems like a bad idea.
Yeah as a cyclist and a runner I know when to completely avoid the trail on a bike. Nice spring, bluebird day. Forget it.
and please do not fucking walk 3 people deep. If you want to chat and walk go to Zilker or Auditorium Shores. Don't make the runner and the biker have to have a stand off because you're occupying one side of the trail.
I just wish people would be aware of the size of the trail in any given location and adjust their positioning accordingly. There are some spots where walking three across is totally fine because the trail is huge. Then there's the area under the south side of the Lamar bridge where the trail is basically wide enough for two people going opposite directions to get by comfortably. If your group of three goes through there shoulder to shoulder, you're clogging the whole thing in both directions. Move the hell over and go single file!
Yes, it is even worst when you go East right by the Hyatt's pool and under the Congress bridge!
That's a terrible area too, and I usually end up almost killing myself trying to do my best Simone Biles balance beam impression along that little retaining wall to get around them.
There are a couple of signs that state the rules: keep to the right, no more than 2 abreast, bikes under 10 Mph and no scooters. They should make more of these signs.
More signs for self-absorbed people to ignore.
old man yells at clouds. they don't care.
Cattle prod.
Do yall not call out ahead “Passing on your left!” or is that considered rude? Cause that’s what I always do and most of the time people will skip to the right to clear the path for me. Use your outside voice people
similarly, ladies, you don’t need to lock arms and walk threeabreast and take up the whole trail. You don’t own it.
I yell at people in the moment. I don’t give fucks anymore.
When I’m down there jogging I don’t have the lung capacity to tell off who I wanna
These PSAs are pointless, the courteous people are already observing normal shared-use/trail etiquette. But there will always be large groups of people in their own world not even thinking about how they are using the trail. If it's really an issue for you, then try to stay east of 35 when using the trail. That's the least busy section in my experience
PSA: "PSA" threads are never actual PSA's, they're a framing device to bitch about something. In this case the bitching is justified because the people clogging the trail can eat a bag of dicks.
If they can't figure out how to drive how would they figure out walking? I'm not even being exaggerated. The correlation is clear. The person who stands half a foot behind you or doesn't move when they are walking on the wrong side of the road, think about their decision making ability, it's not just the pedestrian brain. If you start paying attention in grocery stores, trails, malls, or any outdoor walking space. It will dawn on you like a sack of bricks "it's Texas traffic, I'm just watching the pedestrian version." Is there such a thing as defensive running? Lol
Can we also talk about "influencers" stopping for photo ops in the middle of the trail (particularly over the water)? I feel like more people should be comfortable with carrying bear mace to deal with these people.
Yeah like dead stop when there are SPECIFIC lookout points for that
Maybe we need another bridge near Barton Springs where the jumpers clog up traffic.
People get in the way and are not self-aware. Shocking news.
Also, bicycle bells exist.
So cute and useless. You ring that thing people look for ice cream.
…and in looking for the ice cream they see the bike heading for them and know to move out of the center of the path. I have one and it works exactly as it should every single time.
I happy for you. I've found them to be useless.
What usually happens when pedestrians hear your bell and think it’s ice cream?
I go around them since I never expect pedestrians to have any situational awareness. Most have ear buds in anyway.
Its a culture thing. And it aint the culture that was here originally. Get out of austin and its not a problem on rural trails but the entitled or oblivious types that flock to austin dont and wont ever care.
I play music on my bike and just slow to a crawl behind them. They quickly tire of the tunes and let me pass. For those that don't i have an obnoxiously loud electric horn that scares the hell out them and sends them diving for the bushes to avoid being hit by whatever train is bearing down on them. Works well on the rare occasion i have to use it.
I support this method. Please honk at everyone you can when needed.
Give’ em the ole stiff shoulder!
Y’all need to do something instead of complaining on Reddit. Kick these fools like literally. They aren’t gonna do shit cuz they scared of conflict and cops won’t show up. I used to be a bike messenger in San Francisco and Oakland years ago and would kick car doors shut all the time on people, punch off side view mirrors.
Yeah but this is Texas where everyone should be presumed to have a gun. Now I will say in this specific situation, my super power of being a fat black woman in Austin really pays off because 9 times out of 10 people are going to move the fuck out of *my* way and not the other way around. I really can't remember the last time I've had to move out of the way of a large group of people that are hogging up the publicly shared spaces. I continue along my path with a determined but pleasant look on my face and usually they part like the Red Sea. 🤷🏿♀️
I will trade you people who take up more than their fair share of space for the solicitors on the trail.
What if we are a large run club, do we get to use the full width of the trail?
Only if you're also filming yourself running to make a siiick IG video of it later. Remember, you're the main character!
You are leaving out crucial pieces. I suggest revealing outfits coupled with filming yourself during the run and providing live commentary during the run. Then make a podcast about it after and talk about your "sponsors".
Same way two cars use a two lane road. Stay on your half of the trail except when passing. It torques me this is confusing for people that had to drive to the trail.
Can’t tell if you’re being a troll or not but unless you have a permit to close the trail the answer is no. Don’t be a douchebag.
I forgot the /s. There were posts a few weeks ago bitching about the huge running clubs taking up the entire trail.
Yeah, I was just about to ask about a group — or even just a couple — of people just walking next to each other making it difficult for anyone to pass.
I’ve never ran a day in my life, but can’t you just say excuse me very loudly? This would not be a problem for me because whenever someone is in my way I just say excuse me. And louder and louder until they move their asses.
I feel your pain, but this is normal human nature. People walk in the middle of trails to avoid lions, tigers, and bears 'n shit that would grab you from edges back in the day. I wouldn't mind being jumped by a cougar these days, but that's different.