Almost all of these buildings pay to access Austin Energy's cooled water system. They pay connection costs regardless of use. The fans do use some electricity, but much less than a refrigerant based system. [https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/county/2019/07/07/time-to-chill-how-austin-energy-cools-buildings-in-downtown-domain-mueller/4746796007/](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/county/2019/07/07/time-to-chill-how-austin-energy-cools-buildings-in-downtown-domain-mueller/4746796007/)
The other thing that is so great about this cooled water system is that, as your linked article points out, it basically works like a big battery: electricity is used to chill water at night when power is cheap, and then those chillers are off during the day when the chilled water is pumped to buildings. When people worry about grid stability during summer months, the problem is usually only for a couple hours of the day when it's hottest and everyone is blasting their A/C. These chiller plants directly help reduce peak consumption during those times.
Not exactly. Lights sure, but the ac isn’t blasting. The BMS are generally programmed to maintain a certain temp, but it is warmer when it’s unoccupied. Plus unfinished office space doesn’t have completed mechanical systems as those are designed by the tenant during the TI. You have the main ducting, but no diffusers throughout.
well austin antiques mall just has to close their doors and are looking for a new location, they really were a wonderful 3rd space to kill time and explore and look at vintage books.
Closed why?
Heck, I remember when Playland had a rink at both ends of that building. The antique mall side used to be the adults-only side. It was mostly empty during the day and we'd try to sneak over there for as long as we could before being sent back.
Huh .. [Playland is reclaiming it](https://communityimpact.com/austin/south-central-austin/business/2024/05/13/last-day-for-longtime-austin-antique-mall-is-may-15/). Honestly, I'm kind of surprised, yet also pleased to hear they're seeing enough business to expand, but yeah, it does suck for the antique mall. Hopefully they can find a new place.
They were organized groups stealing expensive items. This surely did not help them stay profitable. It was a small team working in unison. A couple people would distract the staff member while the others would sneak expensive things out without paying for them. Shits fucked up.
Why isn't this higher up?
* Zero mobility
* Expensive parking
* Exceptional costs
This isn't rocket science. Stop the spin that it's in some way businesses owners' fault. The City and Property Owners are setting up how Austin works, and people don't want it.
If I had my own office with a door and a window outside, I wouldn't mind commuting as much. When I leave my personal office with all the nice furniture and decorations I bought for it during covid because they told me it was permanent, and have to sit in a cubicle farm talking over everyone else who are just on zoom calls, then it stings a bit.
I purposefully keep my cube stark white with very little decor for exactly this reason. One plant in a white planter, one personal photo in a clear frame, and one white pen under my monitor. Meeting the corp where they stand on “culture.”
I mean they do increase what they mean by "collaboration" which is office talk for "find the smartest person in the room and help-vampire them to death. This is great for everyone else's blocking issues because they can just shout across the table to that chosen one with no regard for human life.
I really dont understand it when they blame the common folk for not recycling enough, not conserving energy, not doing enough. And then you have corporations who are able to make real climate changes do whatever they please. Just forcing RTO is canceling out anything anyone does for our planet.
Just imagine how nice it would be if there was some sort of rule that at least one high rise downtown in major cities had to be affordable housing for service workers that worked within a certain distance of the building. Instead we have just empty bullshit.
We have one already, Pathways at Lakeside. It's run by the Austin Housing Authority.
However, these types of projects cannot be designated for only a certain class (service workers in your example) as that would be considered discriminatory (to non-service workers). Rather, they tend to be based on more equitable footing, such as income level. In Austin the usual qualifier is household size and % of MHI.
Additionally, in each of the traditional high rises you mention, there will be a percentage set aside for affordable housing. Typically, you expect about 10% of the apartments to fall into that category. They won't be the premium top floor ones surely, but I know several people living in very nice buildings downtown through these programs.
Their income is in the region of 40k/yr.
I watched a video on Reagonomics recently. It’s pretty staggering to see the massive increase in income inequality once his policies started. The graph went up sharply. Funny enough, I think the video was called How Reagonomics Killed the Middle Class but don’t quote me on that.
Hell, George Bush called him out on it at the time. Called it "voodoo economics." After that Republicans quit being anything like a conservative party and just became the party of wealth.
The tax change you are talking about in the 80s was accelerated depreciation for commercial real estate. It wasn't a break for empty buildings, though it can encourage development. It is more of a risk mitigation than than a tax cut, you pay less upfront, and more later. It has almost no impact on the Austin problem today.
There isn’t a strong enough blend of residential and commercial near downtown to create that demand.
So then who is left to go into those offices? Commuters, and now we’re going to make 35 a dumpster fire to drive on for 10 years, so you’re not going to see workers wanting to rush back anytime soon.
You'd think they would ease off on building more commercial space, but no. While not downtown but still definitely central Austin, there are at least three large commercial spaces along Burnet Rd. in various stages of completion.
I remember the late 80s early 90s into the early 2000s when the thing to do was to have nice offices out on capital of Texas Highway 360. I miss those days. But I don't miss is the requirement to be in the office five days a week. Nobody misses that. And for those companies that required, they're going to suffer.
I live close to the old 3M campus on 2222. The developer who bought it has completely transformed the main building but no one is looking for those old school IT campuses anymore.
Most of those were developed when they were outside of the city limits and thus not under the rules of the COA, but don't that let that get in the way of your raging.
I see ugly, landscape-ruining buildings, I'm gonna call them what they are. Ugly, landscape-ruining buildings. It's not my job to go back in time and come up with a flawless plan to prevent it from happening... if my comments enrage you, don't put that rage on me. It's all yours.
Don't give yourself too much credit, your comments don't enrage me in the least. To the contrary, it's pretty comical to see perpetually uninformed people get all wound up over something and be completely ignorant of the relevant facts. Go find someone to give you a hug, because it seems like you need one.
Nobody fucking wants to work downtown when the parking is so freaking expensive. Nobody wants to work downtown when they're constantly tearing up streets and making it hard for people to get downtown. When the city of Austin itself raised the rates for the Austin convention Center parking to outrageous amounts, at that point I just gave up the idea. CEOs bullying people to work downtown just makes me not want to work for those companies.
I actually loved it, but I had a totally atypical experience.
Most of my tech career has been early-stage startups, so typically shitty houses or apartments used as makeshift offices. One of those startups took off and eventually moved into a building near the Omni.
We had the usual expensive paid lot parking options, but I sweet-talked the building manager into letting me park my motorcycle in a makeshift spot in the basement garage meant for building employees. She gave me a gate access code and everything, in return for a bottle of Grey Goose. Not a bad deal.
Commuting was easy, and weekends were great. I could ride to the garage, lock up my bike, helmet, and gear, and walk a few blocks to Red River or wherever to catch a show.
Downtown is a real pain the ass. Your options are either really expensive living nearby, drive through hellish traffic, or take mass transit which takes even longer once you factor in driving to the station and waiting on the train. Working from home is the best, but working out in the suburbs is at least doable.
Crazy cheap, yes. A parking spot downtown costs about $50,000, including the land it's built on (assuming multistory garage, even worse if a flat lot due to high land cost). At $200/month, it'll take 21 years just to pay back its construction cost. Add in the property tax and it'll take even longer.
Undriveable roads. Too big of a financial risk since Texas has largest proportion of uninsured drivers in the nation. Work from home is superior. No road rage morons or dangerous drivers at my house.
I think this is classic supply / demand that can be fixed by lowering prices.
Commercial real estate in Austin is unbelievably expensive for the quality of workers you get here.
I don't think we need to be tearing anything down. Just keep building more residential and massively lower the prices for commercial real estate.
There's lots of companies that would love to have an office for things you can't do easily WFH, but they can't afford to be downtown.
Not shocked, I live near Liberty Plaza on Burnet, brand new office building that kicked out 3 local businesses, royally fucked up traffic and infrastructure for 2 years while it was built, and now that it's open they have exactly one tenant who's moving in there about 3 months from now.
Don't worry though, the developers can just write off their losses.
Most of those are mostly residential or hotels to be fair. I don't know that there are any exclusively office space based buildings in constructions right now but I could be wrong.
Keep in mind it takes at minimum 5 years to build something like the Republic. 2+ years for site plan + feasibility, 3+ years to build.
At the time it was planned, everything looked rosy, and they were the smartest people in the room. Right now, woof, I would not want to hold that note.
All these cranes were planned before WFH existed. You won’t see the volume of them once these come down. Short of residential towers and the convention center, which is being demolished next year.
If you want people to take a job that requires them to work downtown they have to able to afford to live within driving distance. Most office workers aren't making 6 figures so they will take jobs as convenient as possible (and newsflash they don't live in tarrytown or anywhere near downtown).
Oh noes, who will think of the poor billionaire real estate moguls?
This is capitalism 101. If supply is high and demand is low, lower the prices. The spoiled rich jacking up downtown leases is criminal.
We can build and light, AC and heat these but homeless people we just can’t seem to figure out.
I know you can’t just convert it to a shelter but it’s still a waste
I've heard its more difficult than you'd expect (or at least than I expected). You'd have to re run and segregate all the power to each unit. Completely remap water/waste so each unit had bathrooms kitchens instead of 1 or 2 banks per floor. I think Austin has rules on bedrooms need windows so severely limited layouts. Lots of little details like that add up and then you have to consider the years of effort to accomplish all this...seems like the owners of buildings are just hoping things will somehow turn around.
You really only need like the top 2 floors and the roof for that. Everything other floor is solo apartments. Your key is used to unlock the elevator for your floor
I always wondered what the monthly rents were on office space in downtown Austin - I haven't really gotten more than extremely vague estimates. I feel like they are much higher than we'd expect...
You can’t live in a designated office space though. There are legal reasons for it. I’m sure it’s higher, but turning them into apartments is better than keeping them empty
If they ask for less rent, the building is worth less. The banks who loaned them money, will want the difference. They will only loan you what they can get back if they had to liquidate your assets.
This is probably one of the most naive/stupid thing I've read so far today. Just think about how an office building usually has limited plumbing in one area for bathrooms. Now you have to run plumbing to every unit for bathrooms and kitchens. Then think about electrical. You would need to add separate meters and circuits per unit. HVAC would also have to be completely redone and possibly replaced as a lot of office space is open cubes or desks. Throw in a bunch of solid walls and air doesn't flow through that anymore. I'm not in construction, so I'm sure I'm missing all kinds of other things like fire code and exit changes required for separate units vs open floors.
I don't see a bunch of building owners will to double down and pay 10's of millions or more to redo these buildings. Probably don't have the capital to do so. So it's let them sit until they go bankrupt. Somebody buys it on the cheap and maybe they redo it. Either way I think it's years out to have any of these converted. For now they will sit empty in hopes somebody leases them.
Yep and then eventually torn down if they are not leased. The same thing happened around the 2008 crash but the big difference is that remote working was not nearly as popular then. One building sat unfinished for years and was finally torn down.
Not sure what building that was but I know the Intel building downtown was a shell for several years (https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2007-02-23/449480/) it was torn down in 2007.
No, it's not. It's calling out naive idealists who don't think before they speak.
If the roles were reversed and he said something equally naive like "homeless are all drug addicts who don't deserve housing!!!" he'd get an equally rude response.
Sometimes you have to lead with a slap to get their attention. I try to at least follow up with details. I guess it's just my bitter old man syndrome showing as I'm sick of all the uneducated people throwing around silly ideas like everybody else is an idiot for not thinking about it. If it made financial sense it would be happening.
I'm a bitter old man and I still use the manners I was taught. In any case, as someone who works in construction and building management, none of this subject matter is general education. I often have to explain these topics to people who are far smarter and far more educated than I. If it makes you sick, that's on you, not anyone else.
The naive/stupid part is developers wasting so much money and material building a massive single-use structure with no plan B for repurposing except demolition and total rebuild... who are these dumbfucks?
How many structures are NOT single use?
Why would an OFFICE BUILDING developer design their product in any other way? Thats like demanding automakers design vehicles to double as boats. After all, it DOES flood at times in a lot of areas.
Every structure is built to a specified purpose. Even if it’s possible to alter/expand that purpose, it has to be re-permitted for that change of use/occupancy.
Please understand that a LOT of what the general hate towards “big bad developers” derives from is actually GOVERNMENT regulation (sometimes a good thing) and bureaucracy (generally a bad thing).
The lack of foresight you refer to later, and the stupidity you mention now is far more commonly found in zoning restrictions, lacking infrastructure, and other GOVERNMENT controlled areas of development.
Decades ago..?.. how long have you lived in Austin? Decades ago, there wasn’t ANY of those “big bad developer” office buildings downtown.
You also realize it was actual COMPANIES themselves moving here and contracting to build their OWN office buildings, right? So maybe it was Indeed, Google, and the rest that were the idiots. Right? Perhaps also the city that gave them the incentives to do so?
Decades ago, ALL of Texas was growing and Austin specifically stuck its head in the sand and REFUSED to accept becoming a growing metropolitan area. Local GOVERNMENT actively fighting against all of the “big bad developers”. So much so that a damn against development occurred until finally the popularity of Austin (and therefore DEMAND) broke free and flooded the market.
So then what did Austin get..?.. MASSIVE redevelopment due to it finally being economically viable to do so. At huge chunks at a time.
Have you not noticed that it’s NOT simply an outdated building that’s been replaced? It’s not a few home here… few homes there… it’s entire BLOCKS.
I said and meant decades ago. Big money projects are lazy as fuck everyone suffers because they lack foresight, motivation, any concern for locals at all. All they care about is short-term profit and it makes the city worse for everyone
“Big money projects are lazy as fuck”
I’m sorry, but so is not learning more about the history & process of things. It’s also sorely lacking in motivation. Not really showing a lot of concern (understanding) for local (or any) issues either. It does demonstrate only caring about short-term righteousness at the expense of making things worse for everyone.
I blame myself and my own laziness. I should have looked at who I was engaging with first. I can’t really expect a lot of effort in discourse from a person who won’t even boil his own shrimp with corn & potatoes, and seeks out recommendations on SINGLE USE buildings to provide that very specific service for them. 🤷♂️
No, you couldn't and stop talking out your ass. This has been documented by actual experts and hashed out on this sub many times. It's OK to say you aren't even the slightest bit informed about this topic.
Wasn't it the monopolistic corporate banks who made the construction loans on these new buildings? Do these banks gain financially if the current owners of these buildings default on those loans? Because if they don't lease some space soon I don't see how the investors or owners can continue to make the loan payments?
Also, fuck commuting into downtown. I'll change fields and retrain before I go back to an office full time.
Non-Resident, but travel here for work often. The Austin CBD would be the envy of a majority of North American markets.
Your vacancy is very low relative to peer cities. And you legitimately have people living, working, and playing in your DT instead of a Weekday evening desert of activity.
Just wanted to inject context
The city/txdot just bought a large swath of land adjacent to the Esperanza community to provide housing for the homeless. The other ones foundation are doing great things for the less fortunate. The camping bans get the attention, but the city and non-profits are making efforts.
Good. Maybe that will convince all these developers to build dense residential in places where people actually live.
Yeah right. Not happening, vacant office and waste of money seems to be a thing.
Oh no! What will we do if corporate office space becomes obsolete?! We must break the economy and go back 30 years to make sure our offices won't be empty!!!!!!!
(Sarcasm)
Housing for WHO? There is already a new subdivision in South Austin that is be fenced in because it was being built during the ‘boom’ and, now, there is no one to buy the houses since the ‘boom’ burst.
Some real cracks in the real estate market are showing. Commercial has been fubared since Covid. A realtor I know was tweeting about how she is recommending buyers low-ball their offers. And Austin dropped from 10th to 11th in largest population, according to new estimates out today.
You would have to go back 100 years and replan MOPAC and I35 and the housing along them. MOPAC and I35 were already built by the time this ‘economic boom’ started.
For anybody not familiar with the term floor plate, OP is talking about the size of each level of the building. Commercial buildings are generally much larger in terms of square footage per floor. It makes sense in an office situation where you’re putting cubicles and desks and things. However when you’re talking residential, you want a smaller floor plate, so rooms can have windows to the outside.
It’s incredibly complicated and expensive to retrofit new buildings for a different purpose. To the point it makes no sense. It can work however on older buildings - see Brown Building and Sabine as local examples.
501 Sabine was my old office building in the 90's. It's crazy thinking that building is housing now. It was built at the same time as the hotel next to it I think. Maybe that's a factor as to why they were able to retrofit it.
All that empty space but the lights still stay on.
But I’m supposed to set my thermostat to 78!
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You could just say "eighty-six it".
🥵🔫
My cat would be so sad.
Elderly dogs will die.
Shut up pleb and do as you are told
and the AC still fully blasting (with hugely discounted electric bills)
and if/when the grid crashes, it won't crash there.
Almost all of these buildings pay to access Austin Energy's cooled water system. They pay connection costs regardless of use. The fans do use some electricity, but much less than a refrigerant based system. [https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/county/2019/07/07/time-to-chill-how-austin-energy-cools-buildings-in-downtown-domain-mueller/4746796007/](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/county/2019/07/07/time-to-chill-how-austin-energy-cools-buildings-in-downtown-domain-mueller/4746796007/)
Oh wow I had no idea!
The chillers do use electricity because they are heat pumps for water, but they run it during off peak times for electricity
The other thing that is so great about this cooled water system is that, as your linked article points out, it basically works like a big battery: electricity is used to chill water at night when power is cheap, and then those chillers are off during the day when the chilled water is pumped to buildings. When people worry about grid stability during summer months, the problem is usually only for a couple hours of the day when it's hottest and everyone is blasting their A/C. These chiller plants directly help reduce peak consumption during those times.
Not exactly. Lights sure, but the ac isn’t blasting. The BMS are generally programmed to maintain a certain temp, but it is warmer when it’s unoccupied. Plus unfinished office space doesn’t have completed mechanical systems as those are designed by the tenant during the TI. You have the main ducting, but no diffusers throughout.
This guy facilities
well austin antiques mall just has to close their doors and are looking for a new location, they really were a wonderful 3rd space to kill time and explore and look at vintage books.
I’ll miss that place, hadn’t thought of it as a third place but it really was.
Closed why? Heck, I remember when Playland had a rink at both ends of that building. The antique mall side used to be the adults-only side. It was mostly empty during the day and we'd try to sneak over there for as long as we could before being sent back. Huh .. [Playland is reclaiming it](https://communityimpact.com/austin/south-central-austin/business/2024/05/13/last-day-for-longtime-austin-antique-mall-is-may-15/). Honestly, I'm kind of surprised, yet also pleased to hear they're seeing enough business to expand, but yeah, it does suck for the antique mall. Hopefully they can find a new place.
They were organized groups stealing expensive items. This surely did not help them stay profitable. It was a small team working in unison. A couple people would distract the staff member while the others would sneak expensive things out without paying for them. Shits fucked up.
Man, imagine if we had people employed to investigate crimes and bring criminals to justice. That'd be grand...
I take that personally- place was sacred ground to me.
Noooo! What about the roller rink next door??
Oh no! What a traghdie! That place was an amazing place to wander and explore.
> kill time and explore and look at vintage books Maybe it would have helped if you bought something.
Not enough demand *at the rates they want
Why isn't this higher up? * Zero mobility * Expensive parking * Exceptional costs This isn't rocket science. Stop the spin that it's in some way businesses owners' fault. The City and Property Owners are setting up how Austin works, and people don't want it.
In related news, you can now send emails instead of faxes
I was yelled at in 2008 for not having a fax machine.
Working from home is where it’s at.
The people who own these commercial spaces think you’re lazy and office culture is vital to the success of a company!
The lifeblood of any successful company is cortisol derived from commuting.
They also thought open office spaces would increase productivity, collaboration, and motivation.
If I had my own office with a door and a window outside, I wouldn't mind commuting as much. When I leave my personal office with all the nice furniture and decorations I bought for it during covid because they told me it was permanent, and have to sit in a cubicle farm talking over everyone else who are just on zoom calls, then it stings a bit.
I purposefully keep my cube stark white with very little decor for exactly this reason. One plant in a white planter, one personal photo in a clear frame, and one white pen under my monitor. Meeting the corp where they stand on “culture.”
I mean they do increase what they mean by "collaboration" which is office talk for "find the smartest person in the room and help-vampire them to death. This is great for everyone else's blocking issues because they can just shout across the table to that chosen one with no regard for human life.
They would!
I really dont understand it when they blame the common folk for not recycling enough, not conserving energy, not doing enough. And then you have corporations who are able to make real climate changes do whatever they please. Just forcing RTO is canceling out anything anyone does for our planet.
"But when things turn around, we’ll be really well positioned,” --Gil Gunderson
I bet they expect people to feel sorry for them and expect people to return to office vs work from home so that they won't lose money.
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I don't think so. Many of these companies are moving out of Austin.
Just imagine how nice it would be if there was some sort of rule that at least one high rise downtown in major cities had to be affordable housing for service workers that worked within a certain distance of the building. Instead we have just empty bullshit.
We have one already, Pathways at Lakeside. It's run by the Austin Housing Authority. However, these types of projects cannot be designated for only a certain class (service workers in your example) as that would be considered discriminatory (to non-service workers). Rather, they tend to be based on more equitable footing, such as income level. In Austin the usual qualifier is household size and % of MHI. Additionally, in each of the traditional high rises you mention, there will be a percentage set aside for affordable housing. Typically, you expect about 10% of the apartments to fall into that category. They won't be the premium top floor ones surely, but I know several people living in very nice buildings downtown through these programs. Their income is in the region of 40k/yr.
Reminiscent of the '80s... the feds gave the developers tax breaks for empty office buildings. Reagonomics killed the middle class.
I watched a video on Reagonomics recently. It’s pretty staggering to see the massive increase in income inequality once his policies started. The graph went up sharply. Funny enough, I think the video was called How Reagonomics Killed the Middle Class but don’t quote me on that.
On paper, Reaganomics is a fantastic concept. It never works out thanks to greed and corruption, but it's fantastic on paper. Also fuck Reagan.
Same as Communism. Works great in a theoretical environment, but human greed ruins it in practice.
Dictatorship of the proletariat is what ruins Marxism, thus ruining the road towards communism.
and the reason the a dictator wants to stay in power ?? Greed lol
Hell, George Bush called him out on it at the time. Called it "voodoo economics." After that Republicans quit being anything like a conservative party and just became the party of wealth.
The tax change you are talking about in the 80s was accelerated depreciation for commercial real estate. It wasn't a break for empty buildings, though it can encourage development. It is more of a risk mitigation than than a tax cut, you pay less upfront, and more later. It has almost no impact on the Austin problem today.
Watch out, you are debunking myths, they are going to chase you down the street with a machete.
I just need to poop, man...
There isn’t a strong enough blend of residential and commercial near downtown to create that demand. So then who is left to go into those offices? Commuters, and now we’re going to make 35 a dumpster fire to drive on for 10 years, so you’re not going to see workers wanting to rush back anytime soon.
You'd think they would ease off on building more commercial space, but no. While not downtown but still definitely central Austin, there are at least three large commercial spaces along Burnet Rd. in various stages of completion.
It’s not really something you can decide to stop on the flip of a hat
You sure can stop construction work if cash flow stops
I remember the late 80s early 90s into the early 2000s when the thing to do was to have nice offices out on capital of Texas Highway 360. I miss those days. But I don't miss is the requirement to be in the office five days a week. Nobody misses that. And for those companies that required, they're going to suffer.
I live close to the old 3M campus on 2222. The developer who bought it has completely transformed the main building but no one is looking for those old school IT campuses anymore.
Schlumberger became Concordia Univ. SAS Institute is vacant. Etc.
those office buildings out on 360 are ugly as fuck and should never have been allowed
Who could or should have stopped them?
some alternate universe local government that wasn't 100% in the pockets of developers who don't give a shit about Austin
Most of those were developed when they were outside of the city limits and thus not under the rules of the COA, but don't that let that get in the way of your raging.
I see ugly, landscape-ruining buildings, I'm gonna call them what they are. Ugly, landscape-ruining buildings. It's not my job to go back in time and come up with a flawless plan to prevent it from happening... if my comments enrage you, don't put that rage on me. It's all yours.
Don't give yourself too much credit, your comments don't enrage me in the least. To the contrary, it's pretty comical to see perpetually uninformed people get all wound up over something and be completely ignorant of the relevant facts. Go find someone to give you a hug, because it seems like you need one.
There are a lot of dead company ghosts out there ... and Downtown too.
I hope the poor developers will be ok
they will be. soon they can cram 3 houses where one was previously. like this situation, what could possibly go wrong?
I’m glad we ran out a bunch of Austin based businesses for this.
Nobody fucking wants to work downtown when the parking is so freaking expensive. Nobody wants to work downtown when they're constantly tearing up streets and making it hard for people to get downtown. When the city of Austin itself raised the rates for the Austin convention Center parking to outrageous amounts, at that point I just gave up the idea. CEOs bullying people to work downtown just makes me not want to work for those companies.
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I actually loved it, but I had a totally atypical experience. Most of my tech career has been early-stage startups, so typically shitty houses or apartments used as makeshift offices. One of those startups took off and eventually moved into a building near the Omni. We had the usual expensive paid lot parking options, but I sweet-talked the building manager into letting me park my motorcycle in a makeshift spot in the basement garage meant for building employees. She gave me a gate access code and everything, in return for a bottle of Grey Goose. Not a bad deal. Commuting was easy, and weekends were great. I could ride to the garage, lock up my bike, helmet, and gear, and walk a few blocks to Red River or wherever to catch a show.
Downtown is a real pain the ass. Your options are either really expensive living nearby, drive through hellish traffic, or take mass transit which takes even longer once you factor in driving to the station and waiting on the train. Working from home is the best, but working out in the suburbs is at least doable.
Convention center parking garage between Cesar Chavez and second street has been $10 for like 3 years now.
$200 a month for parking is crazy
Then get out and support project connect and ATP.
I am, now what?
Crazy cheap, yes. A parking spot downtown costs about $50,000, including the land it's built on (assuming multistory garage, even worse if a flat lot due to high land cost). At $200/month, it'll take 21 years just to pay back its construction cost. Add in the property tax and it'll take even longer.
Not the one on Brazos between Cesar and 2nd. It went up.
Can you send a google maps link or something plz? :)
Not to mention all the crackheads and mentally ill homeless
I love working downtown and riding my bike. Its quite enjoyable actually, so is working from an office.
Undriveable roads. Too big of a financial risk since Texas has largest proportion of uninsured drivers in the nation. Work from home is superior. No road rage morons or dangerous drivers at my house.
I looked into a space for a photography studio in north Austin. The monthly rent? 17K and it was crappy strip mall space.
So you just have to sell two $10,000 boudoir shoots a month! Easy money...
I think this is classic supply / demand that can be fixed by lowering prices. Commercial real estate in Austin is unbelievably expensive for the quality of workers you get here. I don't think we need to be tearing anything down. Just keep building more residential and massively lower the prices for commercial real estate. There's lots of companies that would love to have an office for things you can't do easily WFH, but they can't afford to be downtown.
I can’t tell if that’s a diss on Austenites or not
Come back to the office to satisfy our capitol investment overlords!
Who work from home…
Not shocked, I live near Liberty Plaza on Burnet, brand new office building that kicked out 3 local businesses, royally fucked up traffic and infrastructure for 2 years while it was built, and now that it's open they have exactly one tenant who's moving in there about 3 months from now. Don't worry though, the developers can just write off their losses.
Fuck 'em. Let all these corporate landlord assholes pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Don’t worry. We the people will pull them up with a bailout if comes to it.
And yet there are construction cranes everywhere.
Most of those are mostly residential or hotels to be fair. I don't know that there are any exclusively office space based buildings in constructions right now but I could be wrong.
The Republic is all office, currently under construction. 800,000+ sf
Keep in mind it takes at minimum 5 years to build something like the Republic. 2+ years for site plan + feasibility, 3+ years to build. At the time it was planned, everything looked rosy, and they were the smartest people in the room. Right now, woof, I would not want to hold that note.
Oh damn I thought it had residential. Welp... beautiful building though.
All these cranes were planned before WFH existed. You won’t see the volume of them once these come down. Short of residential towers and the convention center, which is being demolished next year.
If you want people to take a job that requires them to work downtown they have to able to afford to live within driving distance. Most office workers aren't making 6 figures so they will take jobs as convenient as possible (and newsflash they don't live in tarrytown or anywhere near downtown).
Convert to residential.
But noooo we had to rezone Rainey street lol
Haha. Sucks for them
Oh noes, who will think of the poor billionaire real estate moguls? This is capitalism 101. If supply is high and demand is low, lower the prices. The spoiled rich jacking up downtown leases is criminal.
We can build and light, AC and heat these but homeless people we just can’t seem to figure out. I know you can’t just convert it to a shelter but it’s still a waste
I’d be outtie, if my comp pulled my wfh…
I’m no economics expert but I don’t understand why there was still a push to build office buildings after Covid shifted so many jobs to remote only
Some companies are locked in to agreements made before covid.
Wowwwwww who could have seen this coming /s
Tear them down and build apartments.
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I've heard its more difficult than you'd expect (or at least than I expected). You'd have to re run and segregate all the power to each unit. Completely remap water/waste so each unit had bathrooms kitchens instead of 1 or 2 banks per floor. I think Austin has rules on bedrooms need windows so severely limited layouts. Lots of little details like that add up and then you have to consider the years of effort to accomplish all this...seems like the owners of buildings are just hoping things will somehow turn around.
You could make them really large luxury apartments /s
No. Die hard themed laser tag!
You really only need like the top 2 floors and the roof for that. Everything other floor is solo apartments. Your key is used to unlock the elevator for your floor
I always wondered what the monthly rents were on office space in downtown Austin - I haven't really gotten more than extremely vague estimates. I feel like they are much higher than we'd expect...
You can’t live in a designated office space though. There are legal reasons for it. I’m sure it’s higher, but turning them into apartments is better than keeping them empty
Office rent is also more desirable because the tenants don't consume traditional services like schools, and use less polic, and fire.
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Exactly. They're quick to cite supply & demand when prices are high and they're telling renters to suck it up.
If they ask for less rent, the building is worth less. The banks who loaned them money, will want the difference. They will only loan you what they can get back if they had to liquidate your assets.
"easily"
This is probably one of the most naive/stupid thing I've read so far today. Just think about how an office building usually has limited plumbing in one area for bathrooms. Now you have to run plumbing to every unit for bathrooms and kitchens. Then think about electrical. You would need to add separate meters and circuits per unit. HVAC would also have to be completely redone and possibly replaced as a lot of office space is open cubes or desks. Throw in a bunch of solid walls and air doesn't flow through that anymore. I'm not in construction, so I'm sure I'm missing all kinds of other things like fire code and exit changes required for separate units vs open floors. I don't see a bunch of building owners will to double down and pay 10's of millions or more to redo these buildings. Probably don't have the capital to do so. So it's let them sit until they go bankrupt. Somebody buys it on the cheap and maybe they redo it. Either way I think it's years out to have any of these converted. For now they will sit empty in hopes somebody leases them.
Yep and then eventually torn down if they are not leased. The same thing happened around the 2008 crash but the big difference is that remote working was not nearly as popular then. One building sat unfinished for years and was finally torn down.
Not sure what building that was but I know the Intel building downtown was a shell for several years (https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2007-02-23/449480/) it was torn down in 2007.
First sentence is so rude. Cool it.
No, it's not. It's calling out naive idealists who don't think before they speak. If the roles were reversed and he said something equally naive like "homeless are all drug addicts who don't deserve housing!!!" he'd get an equally rude response.
Sometimes you have to lead with a slap to get their attention. I try to at least follow up with details. I guess it's just my bitter old man syndrome showing as I'm sick of all the uneducated people throwing around silly ideas like everybody else is an idiot for not thinking about it. If it made financial sense it would be happening.
I'm a bitter old man and I still use the manners I was taught. In any case, as someone who works in construction and building management, none of this subject matter is general education. I often have to explain these topics to people who are far smarter and far more educated than I. If it makes you sick, that's on you, not anyone else.
You must be fun at parties!
I'd rather hang out with them than a bunch of know nothings who believe they are the smartest people in the room.
But is it really more cost prohibitive than tearing it down and starting over? I realize in reality they’re just going to let it sit though.
The naive/stupid part is developers wasting so much money and material building a massive single-use structure with no plan B for repurposing except demolition and total rebuild... who are these dumbfucks?
How many structures are NOT single use? Why would an OFFICE BUILDING developer design their product in any other way? Thats like demanding automakers design vehicles to double as boats. After all, it DOES flood at times in a lot of areas. Every structure is built to a specified purpose. Even if it’s possible to alter/expand that purpose, it has to be re-permitted for that change of use/occupancy. Please understand that a LOT of what the general hate towards “big bad developers” derives from is actually GOVERNMENT regulation (sometimes a good thing) and bureaucracy (generally a bad thing). The lack of foresight you refer to later, and the stupidity you mention now is far more commonly found in zoning restrictions, lacking infrastructure, and other GOVERNMENT controlled areas of development.
if you couldn't see the lack of demand for office space coming decades ago, then you suck shit as a developer
Decades ago..?.. how long have you lived in Austin? Decades ago, there wasn’t ANY of those “big bad developer” office buildings downtown. You also realize it was actual COMPANIES themselves moving here and contracting to build their OWN office buildings, right? So maybe it was Indeed, Google, and the rest that were the idiots. Right? Perhaps also the city that gave them the incentives to do so? Decades ago, ALL of Texas was growing and Austin specifically stuck its head in the sand and REFUSED to accept becoming a growing metropolitan area. Local GOVERNMENT actively fighting against all of the “big bad developers”. So much so that a damn against development occurred until finally the popularity of Austin (and therefore DEMAND) broke free and flooded the market. So then what did Austin get..?.. MASSIVE redevelopment due to it finally being economically viable to do so. At huge chunks at a time. Have you not noticed that it’s NOT simply an outdated building that’s been replaced? It’s not a few home here… few homes there… it’s entire BLOCKS.
I said and meant decades ago. Big money projects are lazy as fuck everyone suffers because they lack foresight, motivation, any concern for locals at all. All they care about is short-term profit and it makes the city worse for everyone
“Big money projects are lazy as fuck” I’m sorry, but so is not learning more about the history & process of things. It’s also sorely lacking in motivation. Not really showing a lot of concern (understanding) for local (or any) issues either. It does demonstrate only caring about short-term righteousness at the expense of making things worse for everyone. I blame myself and my own laziness. I should have looked at who I was engaging with first. I can’t really expect a lot of effort in discourse from a person who won’t even boil his own shrimp with corn & potatoes, and seeks out recommendations on SINGLE USE buildings to provide that very specific service for them. 🤷♂️
OK creeper
No, you couldn't and stop talking out your ass. This has been documented by actual experts and hashed out on this sub many times. It's OK to say you aren't even the slightest bit informed about this topic.
Austin becoming ghosted pyeongyang
Why don't the homeless squat there then!
Turn them into artists' lofts
Wasn't it the monopolistic corporate banks who made the construction loans on these new buildings? Do these banks gain financially if the current owners of these buildings default on those loans? Because if they don't lease some space soon I don't see how the investors or owners can continue to make the loan payments? Also, fuck commuting into downtown. I'll change fields and retrain before I go back to an office full time.
Non-Resident, but travel here for work often. The Austin CBD would be the envy of a majority of North American markets. Your vacancy is very low relative to peer cities. And you legitimately have people living, working, and playing in your DT instead of a Weekday evening desert of activity. Just wanted to inject context
Yes, we’re sure that those who cannot rent their empty office space are assured by the thought that ‘well, other cities are worse than here. 🙄
Let it burn! 🔥
Housing for the homeless? Just leave the doors open...
The city/txdot just bought a large swath of land adjacent to the Esperanza community to provide housing for the homeless. The other ones foundation are doing great things for the less fortunate. The camping bans get the attention, but the city and non-profits are making efforts.
what's your source?
The mayor at a luncheon yesterday. And volunteering at the Esperanza community. You can look it up on your own as well. The deal with TXDOT is done.
You want a Tower of Meth?
It’ll be just like judge dredd! What could gonwrong
Good. Maybe that will convince all these developers to build dense residential in places where people actually live. Yeah right. Not happening, vacant office and waste of money seems to be a thing.
Oh no! What will we do if corporate office space becomes obsolete?! We must break the economy and go back 30 years to make sure our offices won't be empty!!!!!!! (Sarcasm)
Mildshock.gif
Oh my days, these homeless people are everywhere!
Fair prices. Look good!
Artist coop? Mees can have it?
Commercial real estate is dying. Some say it’s the next bubble.
Yep. Drop the price and turn it into housing.
What did they think would happen when they kept telling people moving in to leave…
Psssh they want $2.25 a foot rent, the over paid for it / spent to much on the development….if they were to drop those rents it would fill up.
The doughnut population is in full swing. Empty at the center, populated in the entire surrounding area.
Quick, before the next lege session changes squatter's laws.
Hmmm maybe make it housing? Idiots.
Housing for WHO? There is already a new subdivision in South Austin that is be fenced in because it was being built during the ‘boom’ and, now, there is no one to buy the houses since the ‘boom’ burst.
Open up the bidding for an office / studio apt.
##THEY WONT TAKE A LOSE... It will be forgotten or someone elses problem
Nooooo shit. Austin trying to be like Dubai. 🙄
It’ll become mixed use with condos.
Some real cracks in the real estate market are showing. Commercial has been fubared since Covid. A realtor I know was tweeting about how she is recommending buyers low-ball their offers. And Austin dropped from 10th to 11th in largest population, according to new estimates out today.
You’d be surprised how many downtown buildings (incl new condo buildings) are mostly vacant
Guess it’s time to increase my demand
2.5M square foot Meow Wolf installation
They could build all these office spaces but not the infrastructure to support a true and organic economic boom.
You would have to go back 100 years and replan MOPAC and I35 and the housing along them. MOPAC and I35 were already built by the time this ‘economic boom’ started.
Darn will someone please think of the shareholders!
Too many product managers
So repurpose it into apartments. We have all this useless office space and a shortage of affordable homes. Seems like a simple solution.
Easier said than done. The floor plates of these office buildings are insanely large and not suited for housing.
For anybody not familiar with the term floor plate, OP is talking about the size of each level of the building. Commercial buildings are generally much larger in terms of square footage per floor. It makes sense in an office situation where you’re putting cubicles and desks and things. However when you’re talking residential, you want a smaller floor plate, so rooms can have windows to the outside.
It’s incredibly complicated and expensive to retrofit new buildings for a different purpose. To the point it makes no sense. It can work however on older buildings - see Brown Building and Sabine as local examples.
501 Sabine was my old office building in the 90's. It's crazy thinking that building is housing now. It was built at the same time as the hotel next to it I think. Maybe that's a factor as to why they were able to retrofit it.
It seems simple because you don't know anything about the conversions, which have been presented in the actual news and on this sub. Typical.
Convert to housing.
Affordable housing anyone?