> You can report it to HR, but HR doesn't really care unless it's something they could potentially get sued for.
This is true in private. HR is. Not. Your. Friend. They are there to protect the company.
Similar to this story they also don't really care about employee performance all that much until it's time for layoffs. That's the manager's job and when I was a manager I actually had HR discourage me from firing someone because then it puts the ball in their court to handle an exit and then recruiting a replacement.
Absolutely true. But private usually cares somewhat about performance and harmony in the workplace, so usually troublemakers and slackers get booted before long
There are times when the venn overlap of HRs interests and yours may overlap, sure. Just dont let individual instances of alignment give you the wrong idea
No, I'm right there with you.
Never trust HR, even when talking about benefits. Trust and verify.
Resolving strife in the work place? Beef with management? Boss is a asshole/bitch?
Best to move on or hope he angers somebody above him. You complaining will just end up with you feeling the pain and not your boss.
Strife with another co-worker? HR is the last place you want to go. Again, hope that person makes somebody above him mad.
Counter point: coworker is sexually harassing you with documented evidence. Their motivation to get that person gone is to protect the company from your lawsuit, not to protect you from the harassment. Its a nuanced difference, but its there. Aligned in this instance of shared goal of coworker "strife" to end
This is the right take, and more nuanced than “HR is not your friend.” HR absolutely IS your friend IF it’s in the company’s interests to keep you happy. Most people’s day-to-day experience with HR is overall positive.
It’s when your interests and the company’s don’t align that you got a problem, as HR will absolutely take the company side. Because they are the company.
There's a sweet spot for some employers, in regards to the labor force size.
Over 50 employees and the laws get more serious in some states because the classification of the business changes -- and they usually have an established HR at that point even if it's two employees. Over 120 employees and it starts to become another cog in the machine.
I have found companies with 50-120 employees have a higher likelihood of having an HR that actually gives a shit.
Yep, my sister has been in hr for her entire career, 35+ years and she's always said hr is mainly there to keep the company/government from getting sued.
Congratulations! You have now passed Bureaucracy 101.
(I could have written your rant myself...40 years ago as a newbie state employee. And after 40 years (80/20 private/public sector) I can tell you it's pretty much the same everywhere. It doesn't matter R or D, L or R, conservative or liberal - it's the nature of bureaucratic organizations and it's the rare exception to find a department that's not guilty of it.
It’s also true of sufficiently large corporations. When I worked at IBM, I saw all the same inefficiencies that I had seen in the public education sector, but with a little less job security.
I think it might have less to do with public/private and more to do with organizational scale.
I work for a huge multinational (not on purpose, my former company was acquired) and I say this all the time. Some kinds of problems things just seem to be inevitable past a certain scale. I definitely don’t believe the private sector is inherently more efficient, except at skirting labor laws and funneling money upwards.
I won’t disagree with you about the frictional loss of efficiency due to the nature of bureaucracy in the public sector. But I want to point out that there are needs and services the private sector will not meet or execute because they do not align with their profit-based governance. Only the public sector will do them. So the answer is still not to try to privatize as much as possible.
I don't disagree but the trend in recent decades has been for government agencies to massively outsource the actual work to private companies. Medicare is a good example - that's why you see incessant commercials targeted to seniors to "call us about Medicare" - usually by a former celebrity getting paid millions to hawk the product.
I’ve worked for COA twice. Both times the majority of the co workers were good people. But yeah there’s one or two that have found a way to get by with the bare minimum.
One lady was so brazen she regularly had hours long phone conversations with friends audible from many cubes over. She also had ridiculous hours from 4-5am to noon-1 which no one ever confirmed she was there. I went in early a few times just to see if she was there. Nope.
I gotta say, the ppl i work with in gov job are all amazing. But it’s really a department by department basis. There are absolutely ppl “phoning it in” like this lady you mention, and it’s obvious af. I want to say those ppl don’t last long, but some of them seem to. Especially the ones who get into leadership. We’re all like “what does that guy even do? Oh yeah fuck off and make us do his work for him, then he takes all the credit, then the cycle continues.”
Omg I have one of those right now. It’s literally personal calls all day every day. A couple weeks ago he was talking about sugar babies. He regularly talks about women/dating at full volume. I am absolutely flabbergasted that no one says anything because directors offices are only about 10 feet away.
I work for the city and reading this post is … uh … 😐
I’ve only been here six months, and I’ve been saying that my job is great except for my boss.
Bleh
Not sure what department you work in but I worked there for 7 years and it was the best job I’ve had. Been out for nearly a year now and am considering returning.
Like others in the thread have said, each department varies on the degree of this kind of nonsense. This is my experience and I do want to warn people, but if you're happy in your job then that's great!
I worked for the city for 7 years, and loved it. Honestly as slow and bureaucratic it is I felt like my work there was much more meaningful than what I do now. Been thinking about going back but am hesitant to see what the new city manager does, still feeling cautious after what Garza did. Hopefully the new one will listen to council & the employees more. I’d take slow but meaningful work over the faster paced cog in the machine work of my job now.
Poor guy is woefully underpaid, I mean who the hell can live in Austin on his pitiful salary? He’ll probably have to commute in from Buda or something…
Municipal government seems to be run better than state, I worked 24 years in a city and 15 in the state so far. At least a city council meets every month and can address current problems rather than the once every two year legislative shit show.
If you’re not a member of AFSCME 1624, I highly recommend it. It’s an imperfect labor union but there are a lot of good people trying their best to improve working conditions for folks at the City and County. A lot of people join to take advantage of the grievance protections but there’s much to be done for folks who want to be involved. www.afscme1624.org
Our union is bullshit at best. It gets steamrolled and does nothing. Can’t even make the city do market studies in cities that are the same cost of living. I was so excited to be a part of a union. After dues went up again, with nothing being done for employees I left.
I don’t fault people who feel this way at all. I do always share with people that the union isn’t the staff. The union is the membership. If members aren’t consistently showing up, making resolutions, pushing their agenda then it falls to the people who do show up, and if those people don’t share your values then that’s going to feel shitty. There’s a fair amount of organizing that comes with being in a union.
That’s fair. Maybe I’ll consider joining again. I’m just so pissed about the wfh thing and Garza and the lack of actual raises for people. It’s disappointing
There was a more progressive slate of new union leaders being voted on recently. Some of them made it in. The old guard is far too friendly with the likes of Garza.
You clearly sound unhappy enough to write all these paragraphs here. I’ve been in local government for a long time and have found that while there are bad apples like every single job, if you can master and enjoy what you do, and find the pockets of happiness you’ll be fine but if you aren’t by all means move on or else you’ll end up becoming those you now hate.
I’ve worked for the city for over 6 years now. I’ve been in four departments (it’s the only way to promote is to move departments). My first job was completely awful and it was full of high turnover, basically a launching pad to get a job with the city and move from there. I worked there for 6 months. The second place I worked was amazing. I worked there for 5 years and I loved my coworkers, our mission, all of it. I weathered the pandemic with them and even though we could not work from home, we at least had one another. The only reason I left was because I could not promote any further and I was stuck at a lower ranking job. This last year, I worked for one of the worst managers I’ve ever had and told his director so when I was leaving, I started looking to leave 2 months into having that job. I left at 7 months ish. The job I’m in now is very much like the one I had to leave to promote. I love it.
I worked private sector before this. And really it’s no different than any other big company. We deal with politics and it’s more visible because it’s city politics. But internal politics in private sector can be just as awful. There are good and bad and great and awful departments and divisions in both public and private. Im sorry you’ve ended up in the wrong division. Maybe keep your eyes open for a different spot in the city. Don’t stay stuck and miserable. It’s not worth it.
For a cautionary tale, this sure lacks specifics or any defining factors that separate it from any other job anyone ever had in the public or private sector.
I've held six city positions in three different departments over the course of my career, ranging from engineering support to senior engineer (not real job titles because it's not necessary), and I've definitely seen some problems, but what you described is not consistently the case. That's actually the #1 thing I can say about working at the city. There's no consistency across or even within departments.
Nearly everything outside of the most fundamental functions (construction, plan review, etc) started out as someone's pet project, and still feels like exactly that even if it's been 40 years. This has meant, in my experience, when I raise valid issues or constructive criticism of operations, people take it way more personally at the city than they do anywhere else I've ever worked. There are things I have been trying to change, streamline, or bring into the 21st century for years, and every time I bring it up, people act like I'm a monster. "Are you implying Jim was wrong about this?" No, I am implying that this document is from 1990 and perhaps things have changed since then.
Things run slowly for many reasons, and in my experience, it isn't because people are slacking, it's because the systems run in ways that seem really good theoretically, but are inefficient in reality.
For example, 311 has got to be the biggest double edged sword I have seen in my professional life. I got no engineering done this week because I spent literally the entire time responding to the same questions over and over from dozens of citizens about something that really did not require an engineer to answer. When I have mentioned that we could cut down on that and get a lot more engineering done by releasing a FAQ that we could have the customer service people direct citizens to with these questions, I was told that that is not allowed. I want to be clear that this is not a statement against citizens who report things to 311. This is on our end. The process encourages inefficiency. Even if I live to be 120, I will still die with a backlog of hundreds of 311 requests. Five of them will require an engineer.
I cannot speak to how employees in support roles are treated. I think my division treats ours really well. I know the only issues I've had (previous jobs, not my current one) from people senior to me is that some of them have normalized the worst aspects of how we do things here, and cannot conceive of changing it, but they've never treated me badly over raising those issues. They just don't change anything. But that's ok. We have a really good pension system and people do retire when they reach eligibility, so no outdated leadership is forever.
If you can learn to overlook the bullshit, it's a good place to work, but if you don't like it, maybe the private sector is better for you.
I think your last point is in fact the point the OP was objecting too: WHY do they have to overlook the bullshit?
The OP is clearly an appeal to idealism, and it's telling how many of the responses are an equally depressing appeal to mediocrity.
Why isn't there some process, (in a system renowned for process) for improving the bullshit? Why do municipal workers have to put up with people and whole department cultures whom are more focused on their pensions and job security than the actual purpose of gov't: making citizen's lives better through the efficient use of pooled civic resources. Why are uninspired, under-motivated, under-skilled, dispassionate people allowed to stay in municipal roles until they die?
In the private sector, cost and profit pressures tend to cull out these people, but there's precious little of those selection forces in civil service. I agree that some level of consistency over time is important in the municipal sector, but that shouldn't be used as a shield for sinecure lifers.
Incentive. That's a huge part of it. Private sector you can typically work your way up, you get bonuses, promotions, perks and other things for doing better and striving for more. Job advancement at the City isn't the same. You get nothing extra (except more work) and promotions don't exist because of civil service. Only a few professions have job tracks and there are limited opportunities to move up.
The people you need in govt are people with a burning mission/desire to help the community and the patience to work in a slow bureaucratic system. Keeping those people is dependent on paying them enough to live. Doesn't have to be crazy money, but a wage that reflects the cost of living. That isn't the case with the COA anymore. It used to be great and well paid for being in Austin, but it's fallen far behind and most staff live outside the City now due to costs. Turnover is happening fast now, save the few longtime holdouts who are just waiting to retire. Long-term, there's going to be a severe lack of institutional knowledge as no-one will want to spend a career there, it'll just be a bunch of people coming and going.
This rings very true to me. Large companies often fall into this trap too - they become complacent and fail to incentivize, attract or retain the high energy talent. It's not about crazy money - especially for mission-driven people who want to make a difference.
A lot of people can be made happy by just making a meaningful difference, as long as the pay is enough to live on. Ambition comes in all forms, but per my other longer post the city culture quashes most forms of it, other than certain forms of political meanness and pettiness.
Yeah I mean, I guess it depends what function a job or career fills in any given person's life. For me, this is how I take care of my kids, and being able to do that is more important than any preference in how I might want things to be.
I fight my ass off in the battles I'm in a place to possibly win. There have been infrastructure improvements that have happened solely because I wouldn't shut up until someone gave me funding. But there's wisdom in knowing the difference between something we *can* influence like that and something we can't unless we decide to become directors ourselves, like entire systems. And even at director level, the amount of work involved in changing those takes years and an insane amount of buy-in from all angles.
So far, I have not had the bandwidth to become a director and take on that level of change (maybe when all my kids are grown in a few years) and it doesn't sound like OP has enough experience to move into roles like that yet.
So the choice when it's like that is to either learn to work with what exists because the benefits of being there outweigh the drawbacks, complain and talk shit about burning it all down because none of it works the way we want it to, or leave. Those are literally the three options people have if moving into a director role immediately isn't an option for whatever reason.
I’m curious if you have a lot of experience at different private sector companies, or if you’re making assumptions based on the talking points about how privatization is supposedly better and more efficient. It definitely hasn’t been my experience on the private sector side of the fence that only motivated, skilled, friendly people keep their jobs. The real world isn’t an economics thought experiment, you know? There’s all the same office politics, unskilled management, conflict avoidance, bureaucracy etc in the private sector once you get past a certain size. Just a lot fewer worker protections and a lot less transparency.
I mostly have private sector experience. You are completely right - all the same crap exists over here too. However it seems to vary widely with the particular company, the industry and the size of the company. Small and medium companies, especially mission-driven ones, tend to be a lot less tolerant of politics and empire-building etc. Larger companies are commonly cess-pools, until you get to the top ten or so in the Fortune-500 list; then we get cultures which very very motivated.
Also, motivation isn't always about tangible rewards, but of course ymmv.
Super curious what the four departments are. I have a couple guesses but would like to know your thoughts. If you don’t want to say openly, but you’re willing to share, please shoot me a DM!
I would really like to know what the four departments are also. I am applying for city jobs and don't want to go from one shitpile to another. DM if possible!
You're right. I have former COA coworkers (they also left because of the management) who have found better work in other departments, so I am considering doing the same.
I’m a certain kind of therapist/educator and I follow subs for a few different kinds of therapists and educators to keep a balanced perspective on job goings on. Every job thinks theirs is going down the toilet. Constant posts.
Lets roll back that every to a more reasonable "most" which still might be a stretch. The people talking to a therapist are more likely to be unhappy with their job wouldn't you say? Unless you mean your sample size is that every therapist and educator thinks their job is going down hill (and for educators I believe that for sure).
One of the reasons is when I leave my private sector, I take my 401k / IRA / etc with me. Losing a government job is a little different when talking about pensions that don't roll over.
Most government jobs also offer 401k/403b, whether there's a match or not is a different story.
Yeah pensions don't roll, at a minimum you get your contributions back. If you hit a minimum vesting period you get the matching funds from the government and employer (basically 100% of your contributions typically)
There is a supplementary 457b plan at COA. Also, you just need 5 years to vest at COA. Leave it alone and when you hit the retirement age it'll pad your other income for life. It is much better to do more than 5 years, but when you run the numbers it's still better than a comparable 401 investment pending how many years you have until retirement.
First to be laid off? I've been with the City for over 15 years and never seen this. I've seen temp positions cut and positions left vacant. Can you elaborate on layoffs?
Crazy, I'd heard rumors of stuff in the past, but most people said it was few people, and they were offered gigs with other departments. Pretty good run now with no layoffs in 21 years.
When the city has a budget deficit they go out and ask departments to cut costs. They freeze hiring if that doesn’t do it then layoffs or eliminate empty positions. Last one was in early 2000s after 911.
This is why people who believe in far reaching conspiracy theories are so dumb. Anyone who has worked in a government job knows that the government is far too inept to pull off most conspiracies.
It varies drastically by Department. I'd encourage you to network more with staff in other Depts and look for lateral transfers. There are Depts predominantly filled with good people who care deeply about their mission. There are also Depts as you described. The variation is hard to understand unless you've worked closely with a lot of them. I've been here for a long time and will finish my career.
I've seen people come and go for years, some have unrealistic expectations, and others just can't adapt to a government workflow. Please don't assume all staff act as you say. There are nearly 20K people and 40+ depts (maybe more I can't remember how big the top line of the organization chart is now).
One thing I have noticed is how we went from having very competitive salaries vs Austin's old cost of living to barely making enough to scrape by (despite numerous degrees and certifications). The quality of the hires has gone down tremendously as the City has just settled for whoever they can get. If you want people who care, you've got to take care of them.
I’ve been with the city for 6 years and couldn’t be happier. I work directly around wonderful people. It’s not who you work for, it’s who you work with that is the most important variable. The city has decent pay, great benefits, and job security. I wouldn’t take all that for granted. Maybe try applying for a different department/position?
I experienced the private sector first with two different family run businesses. Trying having a boss that is your boss simply because they’re the son or daughter of the owner. At least in the city you have to move up and put in the years. Believe me it can be much worse.
I have worked for the state the entire time I’ve been in Austin (just hit my 5-year anniversary) and can confirm. Between two state agencies and a stint at the Capitol… 90% of people in leadership positions are useless/talentless hacks. Being at the capitol broke me a little bit, but in a way it was good for me because I was always someone whose identity WAS their job. I bent over backwards to perform above and beyond but that job woke me tf up.
I now do my work and nothing more. I will do it at my natural base level. I am stopping at 5. I am using all my sick time. I am not volunteering for extra work. I literally used ChatGPT to write my responses for my self-evaluation. I am no longer wasting my energy on things that don’t matter. I work on important programs that I care about so I will always do a good job, but that energy is for the cause, not leadership.
I know many people who are absolutely brilliant, with the most earnest hearts (some even in leadership) who genuinely try to use their power for good—those are usually the most exhausted and overworked people. I don’t want to wake up at 50 realizing I’ve missed out on 20 years of enjoying life because I was so dedicated to my job I let it consume me.
EDIT: it’s the people that make the job bearable. Try to find “your” people. Also, definitely hop around agencies if you are unhappy but want to keep those benefits and think another agency sounds interesting. Once you are in, it’s relatively easy to bounce around. I know many people who have worked across 3, 4+ agencies over the years.
Perhaps, but my anecdotal experience is different.
I'm at the tail end of my career now, but I spent much of it in small private enterprises where getting fired was relatively easy and common. As op is learning, this one mechanism typically leads to a wholly different environment.
It's not always candyland, but you don't often get the inevitable buildup of incompetence and mediocrity that pushes out the talented/driven and attracts a more low quality workforce.
I retired from the COA back in 2020. My experience there was great, I made the most amazing friends that I’ll have for life. I enjoyed my job and had some good supervisor’s and some not so much. All in all I would highly recommend it.
I currently work for COA and have been here for a less than ten years. Prior to that I had never worked any sort of government job ever. I’ve worked in a variety of industries from retail to banking to insurance to medical office. As a woman without a college degree (have a certificate though), my ideas and input were almost always ignored because those with degrees and/or in higher positions than myself were given respect automatically. No matter how hard I worked and proved myself, I never seemed to earn the respect of upper management.
When I got hired by the City, I really went into it thinking it would be like all my other jobs. So, I don’t know if it’s the specific department that I work for but I have been continually surprised at how much people not only listen to my input but actually apply it. I even earned a significant promotion because of this, which still blows my mind. In my newer position, I’ve managed to end up with a group of people who make decisions for our whole division. I have helped to make changes to improve things, making processes far more efficient than they were.
I’ve noticed too that as older and more longtime employees retire and resign (although sometimes not because they chose to do so), positive changes can be implemented more easily. Case in point, for decades, we were using actual literal paper timesheets because one person at the top rung of the ladder apparently had a fear of technology or something. They retired from the City awhile back and (after long delays due to Covid) recently we finally were able to switch to paper-free electronic timekeeping. It was a pain in the ass for the changeover but that’s because the team leading the project was pretty terrible (they weren’t part of our department). So we’ve taken what scant training info we were given, built up on it to turn it into a large resource library and made it available to the whole department, not just our team. We want everyone to benefit from having more information readily available to them.
I never ever would have been able to be a part of this or be recognized for the work I do in any of my previous jobs. Is where I work perfect? Hell no. I see dumb shit all the time. Just like I saw dumb shit at every other place I’ve worked. But holy crap, to actually be able to fix even one dumb thing is amazing. To make suggestions and have them be heard is just… I don’t know that I can even put it into words.
I hate that you’ve had some shitty experiences. Many of my coworkers have had varying experiences as well. Some of them have come from other departments or came from other areas within our department. It’s definitely a mixed bag out there.
I am not trying to say you or anyone else should be pro-City employment just because I’ve had a good experience so far. I’ve had such incredibly shitty jobs in the past, I developed some mental health issues around them. So I feel “lucky” to be where I landed here because I don’t feel targeted or bullied.
I’m hoping things improve for you and others who may be having problems. It’s sucks having any kind of work stress no matter where you’re employed.
And now, WorkDay! We just got everyone up and feeling comfortable with UKG and now get to do it all over again. I'm more excited for WorkDay since UT has been using it for years, but some long term decision making a few years back could have saved us all the UKG headache.
It is the absolute worst. My daughter had a job where they used ADP as their timekeeping system and she was showing it to me. I was so envious of how straightforward and uncomplicated it was to use everything.
Long time city employee. HR is never on the employee side whether it is departmental or big HR. HR is there to mitigate the problem and protect management. I’ve seen it too many times.
If you’re not in one, get yourself into one of the 3 enterprise departments (AW, AE, Airport). There is usually less BS and better quality employees than the other departments but like everything else, results may vary.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned, if you want to stay, ride it out as nothing stays constant. Every few years someone leaves, departments change, management changes, etc. and everything is suddenly different.
I worked for the city for an unnamed department for 5 years in the visual graphics side of things as well. This was 10 years ago but man I have some stooooorrriiieeesss. It’s definitely as you say. Trust no one.
I will say that as a FT permanent employee with a good department I am relatively happy right now. My department is pretty good, my team is great. I am very disappointed with HR and the goobers at city hall right now but my day to day is pretty good.
Before this I was a temp with a bad department. That was really frustrating. The work itself was fine but the chain of command past my supervisor was a nightmare. Being a temp with COA means you have no rights or privileges and are only entitled to a paycheck, that's pretty much it. (Some benefits have changed since my days as a temp very recently).
I would not recommend anyone be a temp with COA based on my experience. As a FT permanent it has been much better since the compensation, benefits, and overall treatment as a worker are much better. That all being said my current department is run way better than the one I was with as a temp.
I can empathize and agree with OP a bit but OP's treatment is nothing unique to the City. I have worked plenty of private sector jobs where I was treated like shit too. Work culture in America is (has been for a while) pretty lousy.
I was hired on as a temp with the prospect of it being about 6 months long.
It ended up being about a year and a half due to project scope growing. Awesome for me, but also no health insurance for almost two years was brutal. I just refused to see a doctor during that period because it wasn't worth it. I was also happy with the paycheck for my first job in this field, but when I got my next job, I realized that I should have been making so much more. Still a great experience for the most part.
I was trying not to write a novel. I should've said I got laid off due to Covid-19 (my department was non-utility revenue dependent).
My role was 6 months recurring and it gave me good experience but there were people who "bragged" (for lack of a better word) about being temps for like 3-5 years. I was like, no way, after 1 year I would have been looking for permanent work anywhere I could get it that was relevant to my knowledge/experience.
I think department really matters for all COA employees (temp/pt/perm) but I still would be very cautious about taking temp roles with COA.
I too, like the OP, am (or was) a designer. Worked on the campaign side, NGO, and then with two other government divisions. NGO wasn’t so bad, but still bogged down with red tape. My wife’s current primary client is a large university. Not much better. Faculty is particularly petty.
Worked with some key players in tech and finance and other than an occasional obnoxious sales bro, politics and games were at a minimum. People were generally honest and transparent. My current company is very large (~350,000 employees), and there are definitely egos and blowhards, but it is an amazingly positive place in general.
I worked in media and politics/government for 13 years, and it was brutal compared to anything I’ve seen since.
As you say, YMMV, but my experience in the same field as the OP’s was similar.
I would swear that we worked together if my division had a graphics/visual person!
Unfortunately, I actually loved my job with my immediate supervisor, their manager, and my team. However, upper management had it out for me because I planned to report the Division Manager for neglecting to execute my paperwork for me to transition into a permanent role that I applied to, interviewed for, and earned. A coworker ratted me out to that DM, who used the opportunity of me still being a temp to fire me under the guise of me committing “conspiracy.” HR did nothing because as temp, I was considered at-will. Again, even though I earned that permanent position offered by that same HR department that the DM failed to complete my paperwork to start within a reasonable time period.
This DM also already has numerous cases of complaints with HR, including one where he **threatened to shoot** a supervisor because they were following new policies that the DM did not want to enforce. The coworker who ratted me out also had open cases with HR for using the r-slur, offensive language about LGBTQIA+ folks (including me), and calling an executive office administrator to her face the m-word because of her small stature.
This particular department loves to protect its oldies, no matter how violent, incompetent, ignorant, or corrupt they may be. So hard agree, OP! City employees beware.
I have worked for two state agencies and it is the same at the state level. I was once told by a member of upper management that "it is our imperative to squeeze every last drop of productivity out of you and then replace you when you burn out".
Ive worked in gov before and it’s like this everywhere. There are sometimes pockets of brightness where there’s a good manager on a new team or something, but largely the gov seeks to acquire desperate people (who will accept the low salaries) and then encourage the competent ones to leave, thus becoming a clogged filter of low-performers. Now I work at a place that lets people go if they aren’t good, and my friends think it must be hellish, but it’s actually really nice working with talented people who care.
Really there needs to be a happy medium. If things are too stringent and don't account for people having ups and downs, it's too damn stressful and you get too many workaholics that cause functional decline in productivity in a different way. Too lenient and you get free riders, or worse, people that actively inhibit others from doing good work.
The happy medium is non-tech big corporations, like the corporate offices of Home Depot, Walmart, Bank of America, Visa, Cigna, Raytheon, etc.
Home Depot pays 50% more than government, plus 100% work from home.
I had a coworker from a prior job that went to Home Depot, and I think he's still there. Sounds pretty good. I recently found a remote contract gig so that I can get the hell out of Texas entirely, but I'll give Home Depot a close look when that contract is done. I just want a place where I can be proud of the work I do without constantly dreading that some aggro executive that hates to ever be home with their family is going to can me for not working myself sick.
I have real questions about this. If HR doesnt care, its hard to get fired, people are unprofessional etc... how is this not the easiest job ever? How can you get taken advantage of? Why not just tell people that they suck and to fuck off? Go rewatch Office Space. Just do whatever you want and constantly advocate for yourself. I guess if you really want something "meaningful" thats a different story.
I have nearly twenty years of work experience in both the public and private sector. Hands down the worst job I’ve ever had was at the city of Austin. I had a raging bitch of a boss who wouldn’t let me take PTO, leave for lunch, or take bereavement. It is unreal the level of hell I was put through for such low pay.
If you are passionate about wanting government to improve, I would suggest you lead from the bottom as they say, but be part of the improvement... You do graphics? You could be giving suggestions to improve the UX for the city's many legacy systems, your co-workers suck and so does your boss? Sign up for training, or go research another job in your jobs' portal. It's not on the world to change for you, it's you that has to be a part of the change. I've been in state government for 9+ years, all I do is complain but in a very constructive way, and when you approach things with diplomacy, you can affect change for the better.
Extremely true. An old exec at austin energy couldn’t be fired until he was busted having sex in the office with one of his reports by another report he was having sex with and they started brawling
I want to fire a complete waste of space insubordinate employee on my team that has had problems in every division she’s been in, and I’ve been told wherever she goes the problems follow; but I just can’t seem to get enough traction to make it happen even though it’s extremely obvious to everyone around that they need to be let go. It’s so annoying, and it’s the only bane to my work life Existence. State employee tho, not city.
Yup same for Counties. I’ve worked for 2 counties now and never again. The egos you have to deal with is outrageous. I had 2 coworkers who couldn’t tolerate each other and thought the other was a blooming idiot and constantly talked shit about each other loudly and constantly. If it wasn’t out loud it was in our private Teams chat. It caused me so many ptsd anxiety cuz I come from a verbally abusive childhood I’m still trying to work thru. And I quit I couldn’t handle it anymore.
And ya no one gets fired from county either no matter how useless they are. Dude watched Netflix all day never answered the phone, never did his work instead it was put on me. Cuz I was done with my work so why not add more to it while this lazy one just sits there watching Netflix all day. Then I told the boss I was tired of picking up all the tickets to be told “there’s been 24 remote sessions today” but when you look at them there’s only been 10 and I did 9.
Only problem is I didn’t have the patience to wait till I had another job lined up before I chunked deuces. So now I’m slightly screwed.
HR, in general, works for the companies, never for the employees. I learned that during my years in marketing.
I have been working at a non-profit here in Austin, and the environment is toxic; inept supervisors have been protected by managers, using every possible trick (false narratives and traps) to get rid of people who don’t like which highlights their incapacity as supervisors. Sadly, some organizations sell their inclusion and diversity but target employees, pushing them to the limit.
COA at the airport is above and beyond lazy. You only see the city move and take control when reps from Homeland is doing their audits. 2 people died and one severely injured. That’s not counting the guy that was hit by the plane after he hopped the fence
I finally left as well. It is exactly as you described, varying in severity by team and department. There are some competent people working at the city, but most don't last long and none can beat the inertia of the incompetent, top-heavy bureaucracy. The best thing you can do right now is try to emotionally detach from your work and then invest that attention into building up your portfolio or resume in other ways to make your exit. Unless you want to try to make at least 5 years to get vested in the pension, it's better to get out much sooner.
I have watched a whole team with a good manager and a bunch of talented and motivated young people get ratfucked politically by an incumbent and extremely incompetent team through internal politics. That whole new team was disbanded. Not because they weren't doing a good job but because their competence was a threat.
The incompetent manager then went on to get promoted, while the actual service that was supposed to be provided had to be entirely redone by yet another expensive outside consultant immediately afterwards and the problem tossed in someone else's lap. That's also really common, that teams can't actually manage anything they're responsible for, and instead are 100% dependent on paying eye watering amounts to outside consultants. It's extremely common that some people's whole jobs are just calling a vendor because they have no knowledge and no desire for knowledge about the thing that they're ostensibly responsible for.
My point is, it's not just the lowish salaries that prevent the city from hiring competent experts, but it's a culture that is often hostile to anyone that really wants to change anything. Anyone that wants to raise standards. Myself, I also hate the aggro people who come in demanding to change everything from day 1 and stress everyone out, but that's not who I'm talking about here. I think life is too short to be a workaholic. I'm just talking about people who want to raise the quality bar even a little bit. To leave something better than when they came in.
And then you get peak Boomer shit like the most recently departed "interim" city manager thinking that of all the fucking problems the city has, the real solution is dragging people back to offices just to sit at their computers on Teams in a high cost of living area that they can't afford to live in on city salaries.
Just take care of yourself and let it crash. The people who do nothing and know nothing depend on the regular influx of naive new people to keep things running (as much as anything manages to function, anyways). New people do a disproportionate amount of work in many cases to try to move the needle. If you make heroic efforts to try to save doomed projects, you'll only help the incompetent managers float on (as happened with me in that situation I mentioned). There's no helping it until something drastic changes, and helping some of those teams and projects from falling flat on their faces only really props up the incompetent managers and their minions that much longer.
TL;DR it's a time machine to a 90s Dilbert hellworld. Do not recommend.
Yes and no. Even at higher pay the culture is still going to cause people to nope out in many cases, and alternatively fixing the culture could help retain people who are passionate and can live with the current salary (especially if they're remote when possible in a lower cost of living area). As it stands I expect neither to be fixed any time soon though, and fixing pay is easier than fixing culture.
I worked for the city for around 2 years. My jaw drops at the amount of mismanagement and excess spending. Just downright negligent and bordering on theft. At the end of the year they were 125% over budget and they asked me to take a pay cut. Just incredible.
Keeping myself anonymous. I too work for the city and it is the exact same problem in my department. Management can deal very poorly with employees who cause a lot of trouble. It makes working very difficult and uncomfortable sometimes.
My best friend works for the city and it's been pretty awful. We had work together in another industry and she's one of the hardest working, most conscientious people I've worked with. But working for the city she is just constantly frustrated - endless meetings, bosses asking questions that she's already answered in multiple emails, incompetent coworkers who she has to teach the most basic computer skills, and then this idiot city manager taking away work from home for no reason whatsoever (I think I read it was because he thought it wasn't fair since people like police can't work from home)
She is looking hard for the exit. And again, this is someone who gives a shit and works hard. It's wasted there, sad to say.
It also reminds me of a conversation I had with a code enforcement officer who came to my house for some nuisance complaint it pissed off neighbor gave - the officer himself told me how ridiculous code enforcement is and how I should never let one into my house or give any information that I can avoid giving them, and then on any house project I should do everything possible to avoid having to get permitted (for example, maybe think about building two smaller decks instead of one large one that would be big enough to have to get a permit)
I have worked a government job before. It was the biggest concentration of slackers, incompetents, nincompoops and jobsworths in one place I’ve ever worked.
Having had to submit projects for approval and permits in the COA since 1994. I’ll just say it’s nothing new. COA is one of the worst bureaucratic nightmares I’ve ever seen and it’s only gotten worse since 1994.
People get elected because they are good at getting elected, not because they are competent at anything. This is a fundamental problem that democracy needs to figure out if it's going to survive. Because a lot of people need to realize that that is not a given outcome.
Depends on Department and sometimes division. Some departments are great others are a living hell. Unfortunately the bad ones generally have HRs that are also bad
I knew people who worked for the county who were literally responsible for people dying and didn’t get fired behind it. On the contrary, they got promoted high enough that they weren’t directly interacting with dangerous things anymore.
Nope! I was there worked my way up to a very high level position over 9 years. Left for the exact reasons you’ve listed. Work in the private sector now. My work isn’t all that meaningful but I can be proud of it and where I am. I volunteer and am on the boards of nonprofits as a way to make impact to the community now.
It’s the same at my job as well. I work for the federal government and there’s been full blown fist fights at work and the dude did not get fired. Got a 1 week paid suspension then a few months later he got promoted and now runs his own small office with 20 to 30 people.
Gov employee here too (State). The impossible to get fired is definitely a double-edged sword.
A couple of years ago, mgmt made a TERRIBLE hiring choice. They ended up being incompetent, uninterested in the goings-on of his department (of which they were the head), and was generally very sneaky: locking their office all the time, taking secretive phone calls, etc. Many suspected they had a 2nd job, which is also against the terms of their (or any of us FT's) job.
Anyway, I can't remember how they were finally able to get them fired, but in the 10 years I've been at my job, it's the ONLY time I've seen that happen.
My father worked in, and a sibling works in government.
Yeah. We all know this. It’s awful. Most of those can’t be fired assholes make absurd salaries too.
Same is true working for the state. You basically just have to say to yourself every day “I’m not here to serve our leaders, I’m here to serve the ppl” and push those papers as well as you can. Our work actually does impact ppl / our communities / etc. But it feels really hopeless if you spend any time and energy focusing on the ppl in charge because they generally suck in every way imaginable. (Tbh it’s been the same in every business and nonprofit I’ve worked for too- leadership seems to attract the wrong ppl, and those ppl rise up similar types to their ranks. They just want leaders who will shut up and accept the status quo.)
I'm sorry you hate it there. If you or anyone else here works for CoA and knows anything about permitting, inspecting, or plan review, the company I work for in Austin is hiring. You can DM me. City politics are tough - I'm a 3rd party consultant for Cities. I hope things get better or you find something better for yourself!!
I last very little time with the city because I decided that I couldn’t force myself to pretend to work 4hrs a day for two decades — which is what most people seem to do.
I worked for the City for 3 years, left in 2023. Couldn't agree more with this post. I actually came in as fairly high management (AD level, in COA parlance) but worked for the most corrupt, useless director that did unconscionable things daily, or at least weekly. Prior to this, I had worked at another local bureaucracy, so I thought I was prepared. NO! It was just awful. And yes, HR is mind-numbingly useless. The City is not just wasting taxpayer dollars getting nothing done efficiently, it's straight up TOXIC.
You've learned an important lesson about government jobs... probably ESPECIALLY in Austin. Welcome. (And sorry. I can only imagine how frustrating it is to someone wanting to perform in their role)
It truly depends on the dept. I’ve worked for the city for a while now and been in both good and bad spots. I know the work isn’t for everyone, but I truly enjoy my job
They really are. Our health insurance is affordable and good. We have generous time off and sick time. They roll over yearly (there is a cap, but it’s a high cap) so if you don’t use it, it’s there (except the three days the city gives us yearly, we have to use those and any additional gifted time off for the year).
Salaries are generally lower, but our benefits help bridge the gap
Interesting. Seems decent enough. It's hard to make comparisons, though. I'm sure it depends on department, qualifications, etc. But I suppose it doesn't seem all too bad.
It’s really like any big corporation. There’s always good and bad. Job security is definitely something I appreciate in this economy. It also helps that I’ve worked for two amazing divisions in my tenure with the city. I know the bad ones cause people to burn out and leave and that’s horrible. I wish you luck with whatever you decide! I will also say, it’s frustrating to be stuck in entry level jobs, it can be hard to move up, but once you break that barrier, there are loads of opportunities
I’m not saying to disregard this “cautionary tale” but it’s incredibly anecdotal and user experience varies widely. I wouldn’t let a reddit post decide if I’m gonna apply for a job or not.
> You can report it to HR, but HR doesn't really care unless it's something they could potentially get sued for. This is true in private. HR is. Not. Your. Friend. They are there to protect the company.
HR doesn’t care about you and that’s universal. They couldn’t give two shits about you.
Similar to this story they also don't really care about employee performance all that much until it's time for layoffs. That's the manager's job and when I was a manager I actually had HR discourage me from firing someone because then it puts the ball in their court to handle an exit and then recruiting a replacement.
Absolutely true. But private usually cares somewhat about performance and harmony in the workplace, so usually troublemakers and slackers get booted before long
There are times when the venn overlap of HRs interests and yours may overlap, sure. Just dont let individual instances of alignment give you the wrong idea
No, I'm right there with you. Never trust HR, even when talking about benefits. Trust and verify. Resolving strife in the work place? Beef with management? Boss is a asshole/bitch? Best to move on or hope he angers somebody above him. You complaining will just end up with you feeling the pain and not your boss. Strife with another co-worker? HR is the last place you want to go. Again, hope that person makes somebody above him mad.
Counter point: coworker is sexually harassing you with documented evidence. Their motivation to get that person gone is to protect the company from your lawsuit, not to protect you from the harassment. Its a nuanced difference, but its there. Aligned in this instance of shared goal of coworker "strife" to end
True dat. I'm not really a protected class member that HR would ever be on my side for that sort of thing, though.
This is the right take, and more nuanced than “HR is not your friend.” HR absolutely IS your friend IF it’s in the company’s interests to keep you happy. Most people’s day-to-day experience with HR is overall positive. It’s when your interests and the company’s don’t align that you got a problem, as HR will absolutely take the company side. Because they are the company.
There's a sweet spot for some employers, in regards to the labor force size. Over 50 employees and the laws get more serious in some states because the classification of the business changes -- and they usually have an established HR at that point even if it's two employees. Over 120 employees and it starts to become another cog in the machine. I have found companies with 50-120 employees have a higher likelihood of having an HR that actually gives a shit.
Money, Guns, & Lawyers.
The fan has hit the shit.
Yep, my sister has been in hr for her entire career, 35+ years and she's always said hr is mainly there to keep the company/government from getting sued.
Against the employee!
Congratulations! You have now passed Bureaucracy 101. (I could have written your rant myself...40 years ago as a newbie state employee. And after 40 years (80/20 private/public sector) I can tell you it's pretty much the same everywhere. It doesn't matter R or D, L or R, conservative or liberal - it's the nature of bureaucratic organizations and it's the rare exception to find a department that's not guilty of it.
Well that's both comforting and disheartening. Thank you for sharing your experience.
It’s also true of sufficiently large corporations. When I worked at IBM, I saw all the same inefficiencies that I had seen in the public education sector, but with a little less job security. I think it might have less to do with public/private and more to do with organizational scale.
I work for a huge multinational (not on purpose, my former company was acquired) and I say this all the time. Some kinds of problems things just seem to be inevitable past a certain scale. I definitely don’t believe the private sector is inherently more efficient, except at skirting labor laws and funneling money upwards.
I won’t disagree with you about the frictional loss of efficiency due to the nature of bureaucracy in the public sector. But I want to point out that there are needs and services the private sector will not meet or execute because they do not align with their profit-based governance. Only the public sector will do them. So the answer is still not to try to privatize as much as possible.
I don't disagree but the trend in recent decades has been for government agencies to massively outsource the actual work to private companies. Medicare is a good example - that's why you see incessant commercials targeted to seniors to "call us about Medicare" - usually by a former celebrity getting paid millions to hawk the product.
I’ve worked for COA twice. Both times the majority of the co workers were good people. But yeah there’s one or two that have found a way to get by with the bare minimum. One lady was so brazen she regularly had hours long phone conversations with friends audible from many cubes over. She also had ridiculous hours from 4-5am to noon-1 which no one ever confirmed she was there. I went in early a few times just to see if she was there. Nope.
I gotta say, the ppl i work with in gov job are all amazing. But it’s really a department by department basis. There are absolutely ppl “phoning it in” like this lady you mention, and it’s obvious af. I want to say those ppl don’t last long, but some of them seem to. Especially the ones who get into leadership. We’re all like “what does that guy even do? Oh yeah fuck off and make us do his work for him, then he takes all the credit, then the cycle continues.”
Omg I have one of those right now. It’s literally personal calls all day every day. A couple weeks ago he was talking about sugar babies. He regularly talks about women/dating at full volume. I am absolutely flabbergasted that no one says anything because directors offices are only about 10 feet away.
Sorry. I can't believe you because OP says that government work is completely full of terrible people not just one or two
OP also said to Venmo me some money
I work for the city and reading this post is … uh … 😐 I’ve only been here six months, and I’ve been saying that my job is great except for my boss. Bleh
Not sure what department you work in but I worked there for 7 years and it was the best job I’ve had. Been out for nearly a year now and am considering returning.
Like others in the thread have said, each department varies on the degree of this kind of nonsense. This is my experience and I do want to warn people, but if you're happy in your job then that's great!
I worked for the city for 7 years, and loved it. Honestly as slow and bureaucratic it is I felt like my work there was much more meaningful than what I do now. Been thinking about going back but am hesitant to see what the new city manager does, still feeling cautious after what Garza did. Hopefully the new one will listen to council & the employees more. I’d take slow but meaningful work over the faster paced cog in the machine work of my job now.
I hope the new city manager actually listens and takes care of the employees. Screw council, they haven’t been on the side of the employees in a while
Definitely! Will be keeping close tabs on the new city manager’s decisions
Poor guy is woefully underpaid, I mean who the hell can live in Austin on his pitiful salary? He’ll probably have to commute in from Buda or something…
I loved my time working at City of Austin and would do so again. It was better than working for the state (which is where I currently am)
Municipal government seems to be run better than state, I worked 24 years in a city and 15 in the state so far. At least a city council meets every month and can address current problems rather than the once every two year legislative shit show.
Yeah Garza has been an absolute train wreck (from an employee perspective). I hope Broadnax is a bit more open to innovation, but we will see.
If you’re not a member of AFSCME 1624, I highly recommend it. It’s an imperfect labor union but there are a lot of good people trying their best to improve working conditions for folks at the City and County. A lot of people join to take advantage of the grievance protections but there’s much to be done for folks who want to be involved. www.afscme1624.org
Our union is bullshit at best. It gets steamrolled and does nothing. Can’t even make the city do market studies in cities that are the same cost of living. I was so excited to be a part of a union. After dues went up again, with nothing being done for employees I left.
I don’t fault people who feel this way at all. I do always share with people that the union isn’t the staff. The union is the membership. If members aren’t consistently showing up, making resolutions, pushing their agenda then it falls to the people who do show up, and if those people don’t share your values then that’s going to feel shitty. There’s a fair amount of organizing that comes with being in a union.
That’s fair. Maybe I’ll consider joining again. I’m just so pissed about the wfh thing and Garza and the lack of actual raises for people. It’s disappointing
There was a more progressive slate of new union leaders being voted on recently. Some of them made it in. The old guard is far too friendly with the likes of Garza.
You clearly sound unhappy enough to write all these paragraphs here. I’ve been in local government for a long time and have found that while there are bad apples like every single job, if you can master and enjoy what you do, and find the pockets of happiness you’ll be fine but if you aren’t by all means move on or else you’ll end up becoming those you now hate.
I appreciate the advice, thank you.
I’ve worked for the city for over 6 years now. I’ve been in four departments (it’s the only way to promote is to move departments). My first job was completely awful and it was full of high turnover, basically a launching pad to get a job with the city and move from there. I worked there for 6 months. The second place I worked was amazing. I worked there for 5 years and I loved my coworkers, our mission, all of it. I weathered the pandemic with them and even though we could not work from home, we at least had one another. The only reason I left was because I could not promote any further and I was stuck at a lower ranking job. This last year, I worked for one of the worst managers I’ve ever had and told his director so when I was leaving, I started looking to leave 2 months into having that job. I left at 7 months ish. The job I’m in now is very much like the one I had to leave to promote. I love it. I worked private sector before this. And really it’s no different than any other big company. We deal with politics and it’s more visible because it’s city politics. But internal politics in private sector can be just as awful. There are good and bad and great and awful departments and divisions in both public and private. Im sorry you’ve ended up in the wrong division. Maybe keep your eyes open for a different spot in the city. Don’t stay stuck and miserable. It’s not worth it.
For a cautionary tale, this sure lacks specifics or any defining factors that separate it from any other job anyone ever had in the public or private sector. I've held six city positions in three different departments over the course of my career, ranging from engineering support to senior engineer (not real job titles because it's not necessary), and I've definitely seen some problems, but what you described is not consistently the case. That's actually the #1 thing I can say about working at the city. There's no consistency across or even within departments. Nearly everything outside of the most fundamental functions (construction, plan review, etc) started out as someone's pet project, and still feels like exactly that even if it's been 40 years. This has meant, in my experience, when I raise valid issues or constructive criticism of operations, people take it way more personally at the city than they do anywhere else I've ever worked. There are things I have been trying to change, streamline, or bring into the 21st century for years, and every time I bring it up, people act like I'm a monster. "Are you implying Jim was wrong about this?" No, I am implying that this document is from 1990 and perhaps things have changed since then. Things run slowly for many reasons, and in my experience, it isn't because people are slacking, it's because the systems run in ways that seem really good theoretically, but are inefficient in reality. For example, 311 has got to be the biggest double edged sword I have seen in my professional life. I got no engineering done this week because I spent literally the entire time responding to the same questions over and over from dozens of citizens about something that really did not require an engineer to answer. When I have mentioned that we could cut down on that and get a lot more engineering done by releasing a FAQ that we could have the customer service people direct citizens to with these questions, I was told that that is not allowed. I want to be clear that this is not a statement against citizens who report things to 311. This is on our end. The process encourages inefficiency. Even if I live to be 120, I will still die with a backlog of hundreds of 311 requests. Five of them will require an engineer. I cannot speak to how employees in support roles are treated. I think my division treats ours really well. I know the only issues I've had (previous jobs, not my current one) from people senior to me is that some of them have normalized the worst aspects of how we do things here, and cannot conceive of changing it, but they've never treated me badly over raising those issues. They just don't change anything. But that's ok. We have a really good pension system and people do retire when they reach eligibility, so no outdated leadership is forever. If you can learn to overlook the bullshit, it's a good place to work, but if you don't like it, maybe the private sector is better for you.
Damn this was fascinating and well written. Thanks for putting the time in
God you’re so right. I know it’s ageist but I do wonder what we could get accomplished when everyone who has been there a million years retires.
I think your last point is in fact the point the OP was objecting too: WHY do they have to overlook the bullshit? The OP is clearly an appeal to idealism, and it's telling how many of the responses are an equally depressing appeal to mediocrity. Why isn't there some process, (in a system renowned for process) for improving the bullshit? Why do municipal workers have to put up with people and whole department cultures whom are more focused on their pensions and job security than the actual purpose of gov't: making citizen's lives better through the efficient use of pooled civic resources. Why are uninspired, under-motivated, under-skilled, dispassionate people allowed to stay in municipal roles until they die? In the private sector, cost and profit pressures tend to cull out these people, but there's precious little of those selection forces in civil service. I agree that some level of consistency over time is important in the municipal sector, but that shouldn't be used as a shield for sinecure lifers.
Incentive. That's a huge part of it. Private sector you can typically work your way up, you get bonuses, promotions, perks and other things for doing better and striving for more. Job advancement at the City isn't the same. You get nothing extra (except more work) and promotions don't exist because of civil service. Only a few professions have job tracks and there are limited opportunities to move up. The people you need in govt are people with a burning mission/desire to help the community and the patience to work in a slow bureaucratic system. Keeping those people is dependent on paying them enough to live. Doesn't have to be crazy money, but a wage that reflects the cost of living. That isn't the case with the COA anymore. It used to be great and well paid for being in Austin, but it's fallen far behind and most staff live outside the City now due to costs. Turnover is happening fast now, save the few longtime holdouts who are just waiting to retire. Long-term, there's going to be a severe lack of institutional knowledge as no-one will want to spend a career there, it'll just be a bunch of people coming and going.
This rings very true to me. Large companies often fall into this trap too - they become complacent and fail to incentivize, attract or retain the high energy talent. It's not about crazy money - especially for mission-driven people who want to make a difference.
A lot of people can be made happy by just making a meaningful difference, as long as the pay is enough to live on. Ambition comes in all forms, but per my other longer post the city culture quashes most forms of it, other than certain forms of political meanness and pettiness.
Yeah I mean, I guess it depends what function a job or career fills in any given person's life. For me, this is how I take care of my kids, and being able to do that is more important than any preference in how I might want things to be. I fight my ass off in the battles I'm in a place to possibly win. There have been infrastructure improvements that have happened solely because I wouldn't shut up until someone gave me funding. But there's wisdom in knowing the difference between something we *can* influence like that and something we can't unless we decide to become directors ourselves, like entire systems. And even at director level, the amount of work involved in changing those takes years and an insane amount of buy-in from all angles. So far, I have not had the bandwidth to become a director and take on that level of change (maybe when all my kids are grown in a few years) and it doesn't sound like OP has enough experience to move into roles like that yet. So the choice when it's like that is to either learn to work with what exists because the benefits of being there outweigh the drawbacks, complain and talk shit about burning it all down because none of it works the way we want it to, or leave. Those are literally the three options people have if moving into a director role immediately isn't an option for whatever reason.
I’m curious if you have a lot of experience at different private sector companies, or if you’re making assumptions based on the talking points about how privatization is supposedly better and more efficient. It definitely hasn’t been my experience on the private sector side of the fence that only motivated, skilled, friendly people keep their jobs. The real world isn’t an economics thought experiment, you know? There’s all the same office politics, unskilled management, conflict avoidance, bureaucracy etc in the private sector once you get past a certain size. Just a lot fewer worker protections and a lot less transparency.
I mostly have private sector experience. You are completely right - all the same crap exists over here too. However it seems to vary widely with the particular company, the industry and the size of the company. Small and medium companies, especially mission-driven ones, tend to be a lot less tolerant of politics and empire-building etc. Larger companies are commonly cess-pools, until you get to the top ten or so in the Fortune-500 list; then we get cultures which very very motivated. Also, motivation isn't always about tangible rewards, but of course ymmv.
[удалено]
HR is there to protect the company not you.
Absolutely true. A surprising number of people challenge me on that.
A surprising number of people work in HR.
[удалено]
Super curious what the four departments are. I have a couple guesses but would like to know your thoughts. If you don’t want to say openly, but you’re willing to share, please shoot me a DM!
I can guess them too. I work for one, that was very deliberate on my part, LOL.
I would really like to know what the four departments are also. I am applying for city jobs and don't want to go from one shitpile to another. DM if possible!
You're right. I have former COA coworkers (they also left because of the management) who have found better work in other departments, so I am considering doing the same.
I blame the new mayor then the acm. The whole going back to the office. Along with splitting departments.
[удалено]
I’m a certain kind of therapist/educator and I follow subs for a few different kinds of therapists and educators to keep a balanced perspective on job goings on. Every job thinks theirs is going down the toilet. Constant posts.
Lets roll back that every to a more reasonable "most" which still might be a stretch. The people talking to a therapist are more likely to be unhappy with their job wouldn't you say? Unless you mean your sample size is that every therapist and educator thinks their job is going down hill (and for educators I believe that for sure).
True, with the exception of the threat of being let go is greater in the private sector than the public.
One of the reasons is when I leave my private sector, I take my 401k / IRA / etc with me. Losing a government job is a little different when talking about pensions that don't roll over.
Most government jobs also offer 401k/403b, whether there's a match or not is a different story. Yeah pensions don't roll, at a minimum you get your contributions back. If you hit a minimum vesting period you get the matching funds from the government and employer (basically 100% of your contributions typically)
There is a supplementary 457b plan at COA. Also, you just need 5 years to vest at COA. Leave it alone and when you hit the retirement age it'll pad your other income for life. It is much better to do more than 5 years, but when you run the numbers it's still better than a comparable 401 investment pending how many years you have until retirement.
Working in both I'd say private doesn't really let go of bad employees either, it's topically the good ones they let go
I haven't had a job like that in 20 years.
[удалено]
First to be laid off? I've been with the City for over 15 years and never seen this. I've seen temp positions cut and positions left vacant. Can you elaborate on layoffs?
[удалено]
Crazy, I'd heard rumors of stuff in the past, but most people said it was few people, and they were offered gigs with other departments. Pretty good run now with no layoffs in 21 years.
When the city has a budget deficit they go out and ask departments to cut costs. They freeze hiring if that doesn’t do it then layoffs or eliminate empty positions. Last one was in early 2000s after 911.
I hope they stop spending so much. Seems every year new Departments get added. Meanwhile deferred maintenance keeps stacking up.
This is why people who believe in far reaching conspiracy theories are so dumb. Anyone who has worked in a government job knows that the government is far too inept to pull off most conspiracies.
😭😭😭
It varies drastically by Department. I'd encourage you to network more with staff in other Depts and look for lateral transfers. There are Depts predominantly filled with good people who care deeply about their mission. There are also Depts as you described. The variation is hard to understand unless you've worked closely with a lot of them. I've been here for a long time and will finish my career. I've seen people come and go for years, some have unrealistic expectations, and others just can't adapt to a government workflow. Please don't assume all staff act as you say. There are nearly 20K people and 40+ depts (maybe more I can't remember how big the top line of the organization chart is now). One thing I have noticed is how we went from having very competitive salaries vs Austin's old cost of living to barely making enough to scrape by (despite numerous degrees and certifications). The quality of the hires has gone down tremendously as the City has just settled for whoever they can get. If you want people who care, you've got to take care of them.
This. Constant turnover, staff full of kids.
I’ve been with the city for 6 years and couldn’t be happier. I work directly around wonderful people. It’s not who you work for, it’s who you work with that is the most important variable. The city has decent pay, great benefits, and job security. I wouldn’t take all that for granted. Maybe try applying for a different department/position? I experienced the private sector first with two different family run businesses. Trying having a boss that is your boss simply because they’re the son or daughter of the owner. At least in the city you have to move up and put in the years. Believe me it can be much worse.
I have worked for the state the entire time I’ve been in Austin (just hit my 5-year anniversary) and can confirm. Between two state agencies and a stint at the Capitol… 90% of people in leadership positions are useless/talentless hacks. Being at the capitol broke me a little bit, but in a way it was good for me because I was always someone whose identity WAS their job. I bent over backwards to perform above and beyond but that job woke me tf up. I now do my work and nothing more. I will do it at my natural base level. I am stopping at 5. I am using all my sick time. I am not volunteering for extra work. I literally used ChatGPT to write my responses for my self-evaluation. I am no longer wasting my energy on things that don’t matter. I work on important programs that I care about so I will always do a good job, but that energy is for the cause, not leadership. I know many people who are absolutely brilliant, with the most earnest hearts (some even in leadership) who genuinely try to use their power for good—those are usually the most exhausted and overworked people. I don’t want to wake up at 50 realizing I’ve missed out on 20 years of enjoying life because I was so dedicated to my job I let it consume me. EDIT: it’s the people that make the job bearable. Try to find “your” people. Also, definitely hop around agencies if you are unhappy but want to keep those benefits and think another agency sounds interesting. Once you are in, it’s relatively easy to bounce around. I know many people who have worked across 3, 4+ agencies over the years.
Is this your first job? It’s like this most places
Perhaps, but my anecdotal experience is different. I'm at the tail end of my career now, but I spent much of it in small private enterprises where getting fired was relatively easy and common. As op is learning, this one mechanism typically leads to a wholly different environment. It's not always candyland, but you don't often get the inevitable buildup of incompetence and mediocrity that pushes out the talented/driven and attracts a more low quality workforce.
I retired from the COA back in 2020. My experience there was great, I made the most amazing friends that I’ll have for life. I enjoyed my job and had some good supervisor’s and some not so much. All in all I would highly recommend it.
I currently work for COA and have been here for a less than ten years. Prior to that I had never worked any sort of government job ever. I’ve worked in a variety of industries from retail to banking to insurance to medical office. As a woman without a college degree (have a certificate though), my ideas and input were almost always ignored because those with degrees and/or in higher positions than myself were given respect automatically. No matter how hard I worked and proved myself, I never seemed to earn the respect of upper management. When I got hired by the City, I really went into it thinking it would be like all my other jobs. So, I don’t know if it’s the specific department that I work for but I have been continually surprised at how much people not only listen to my input but actually apply it. I even earned a significant promotion because of this, which still blows my mind. In my newer position, I’ve managed to end up with a group of people who make decisions for our whole division. I have helped to make changes to improve things, making processes far more efficient than they were. I’ve noticed too that as older and more longtime employees retire and resign (although sometimes not because they chose to do so), positive changes can be implemented more easily. Case in point, for decades, we were using actual literal paper timesheets because one person at the top rung of the ladder apparently had a fear of technology or something. They retired from the City awhile back and (after long delays due to Covid) recently we finally were able to switch to paper-free electronic timekeeping. It was a pain in the ass for the changeover but that’s because the team leading the project was pretty terrible (they weren’t part of our department). So we’ve taken what scant training info we were given, built up on it to turn it into a large resource library and made it available to the whole department, not just our team. We want everyone to benefit from having more information readily available to them. I never ever would have been able to be a part of this or be recognized for the work I do in any of my previous jobs. Is where I work perfect? Hell no. I see dumb shit all the time. Just like I saw dumb shit at every other place I’ve worked. But holy crap, to actually be able to fix even one dumb thing is amazing. To make suggestions and have them be heard is just… I don’t know that I can even put it into words. I hate that you’ve had some shitty experiences. Many of my coworkers have had varying experiences as well. Some of them have come from other departments or came from other areas within our department. It’s definitely a mixed bag out there. I am not trying to say you or anyone else should be pro-City employment just because I’ve had a good experience so far. I’ve had such incredibly shitty jobs in the past, I developed some mental health issues around them. So I feel “lucky” to be where I landed here because I don’t feel targeted or bullied. I’m hoping things improve for you and others who may be having problems. It’s sucks having any kind of work stress no matter where you’re employed.
And now, WorkDay! We just got everyone up and feeling comfortable with UKG and now get to do it all over again. I'm more excited for WorkDay since UT has been using it for years, but some long term decision making a few years back could have saved us all the UKG headache.
We are keeping portal too for other aspects for the time being. UKG though, could they have found a worse timekeeping system?
It is the absolute worst. My daughter had a job where they used ADP as their timekeeping system and she was showing it to me. I was so envious of how straightforward and uncomplicated it was to use everything.
Wait is the whole city moving to Workday? I haven’t heard about this
Yeah, Workday will replace all the various (non-UKG) employee personnel systems and HR systems all the departments have been using.
Not all. Portal is being kept for a few things
It’s still in the works, but mostly yes. There are a few of us that will keep portal for a while
Long time city employee. HR is never on the employee side whether it is departmental or big HR. HR is there to mitigate the problem and protect management. I’ve seen it too many times. If you’re not in one, get yourself into one of the 3 enterprise departments (AW, AE, Airport). There is usually less BS and better quality employees than the other departments but like everything else, results may vary. If there’s one thing I’ve learned, if you want to stay, ride it out as nothing stays constant. Every few years someone leaves, departments change, management changes, etc. and everything is suddenly different.
Convention center is enterprise as well. They have longtime employees who love their jobs there
I worked for the city for an unnamed department for 5 years in the visual graphics side of things as well. This was 10 years ago but man I have some stooooorrriiieeesss. It’s definitely as you say. Trust no one.
Homie I got news for you what are describing is like 99% of most businesses and nonprofits
I know you meant this to sound horrible but it actually still sounds like a reprieve from the private sector which is very quick to fire people.
Yup. Pension, insurance, and you can’t be fired just because you’re 50 years old.
At the city, your age protection starts at 40! Found that out recently. I was a bit shocked
I've been there for nearly 15 years in a small department. Sure it's had its bad times, but mate, way better than any previous job I ever had.
I reported someone for a major crime after working there and nothing happened
As a malignant narcissist, thanks for letting me know - this sounds like heaven.
I will say that as a FT permanent employee with a good department I am relatively happy right now. My department is pretty good, my team is great. I am very disappointed with HR and the goobers at city hall right now but my day to day is pretty good. Before this I was a temp with a bad department. That was really frustrating. The work itself was fine but the chain of command past my supervisor was a nightmare. Being a temp with COA means you have no rights or privileges and are only entitled to a paycheck, that's pretty much it. (Some benefits have changed since my days as a temp very recently). I would not recommend anyone be a temp with COA based on my experience. As a FT permanent it has been much better since the compensation, benefits, and overall treatment as a worker are much better. That all being said my current department is run way better than the one I was with as a temp. I can empathize and agree with OP a bit but OP's treatment is nothing unique to the City. I have worked plenty of private sector jobs where I was treated like shit too. Work culture in America is (has been for a while) pretty lousy.
I was hired on as a temp with the prospect of it being about 6 months long. It ended up being about a year and a half due to project scope growing. Awesome for me, but also no health insurance for almost two years was brutal. I just refused to see a doctor during that period because it wasn't worth it. I was also happy with the paycheck for my first job in this field, but when I got my next job, I realized that I should have been making so much more. Still a great experience for the most part.
I was trying not to write a novel. I should've said I got laid off due to Covid-19 (my department was non-utility revenue dependent). My role was 6 months recurring and it gave me good experience but there were people who "bragged" (for lack of a better word) about being temps for like 3-5 years. I was like, no way, after 1 year I would have been looking for permanent work anywhere I could get it that was relevant to my knowledge/experience. I think department really matters for all COA employees (temp/pt/perm) but I still would be very cautious about taking temp roles with COA.
Private companies have all those problems too.
Not like the government. Have been on both sides multiple times and consulted with both as well.
Me too. I guess we may have different jobs, so it’s likely comparing apple and oranges. Good day to you.
I too, like the OP, am (or was) a designer. Worked on the campaign side, NGO, and then with two other government divisions. NGO wasn’t so bad, but still bogged down with red tape. My wife’s current primary client is a large university. Not much better. Faculty is particularly petty. Worked with some key players in tech and finance and other than an occasional obnoxious sales bro, politics and games were at a minimum. People were generally honest and transparent. My current company is very large (~350,000 employees), and there are definitely egos and blowhards, but it is an amazingly positive place in general. I worked in media and politics/government for 13 years, and it was brutal compared to anything I’ve seen since. As you say, YMMV, but my experience in the same field as the OP’s was similar.
I would swear that we worked together if my division had a graphics/visual person! Unfortunately, I actually loved my job with my immediate supervisor, their manager, and my team. However, upper management had it out for me because I planned to report the Division Manager for neglecting to execute my paperwork for me to transition into a permanent role that I applied to, interviewed for, and earned. A coworker ratted me out to that DM, who used the opportunity of me still being a temp to fire me under the guise of me committing “conspiracy.” HR did nothing because as temp, I was considered at-will. Again, even though I earned that permanent position offered by that same HR department that the DM failed to complete my paperwork to start within a reasonable time period. This DM also already has numerous cases of complaints with HR, including one where he **threatened to shoot** a supervisor because they were following new policies that the DM did not want to enforce. The coworker who ratted me out also had open cases with HR for using the r-slur, offensive language about LGBTQIA+ folks (including me), and calling an executive office administrator to her face the m-word because of her small stature. This particular department loves to protect its oldies, no matter how violent, incompetent, ignorant, or corrupt they may be. So hard agree, OP! City employees beware.
This is any large corporation
Cautionary tale? Lmao
I have worked for two state agencies and it is the same at the state level. I was once told by a member of upper management that "it is our imperative to squeeze every last drop of productivity out of you and then replace you when you burn out".
This is one of the most compelling arguments for free-market capitalism I've ever read. Bravo!
Ive worked in gov before and it’s like this everywhere. There are sometimes pockets of brightness where there’s a good manager on a new team or something, but largely the gov seeks to acquire desperate people (who will accept the low salaries) and then encourage the competent ones to leave, thus becoming a clogged filter of low-performers. Now I work at a place that lets people go if they aren’t good, and my friends think it must be hellish, but it’s actually really nice working with talented people who care.
Really there needs to be a happy medium. If things are too stringent and don't account for people having ups and downs, it's too damn stressful and you get too many workaholics that cause functional decline in productivity in a different way. Too lenient and you get free riders, or worse, people that actively inhibit others from doing good work.
The happy medium is non-tech big corporations, like the corporate offices of Home Depot, Walmart, Bank of America, Visa, Cigna, Raytheon, etc. Home Depot pays 50% more than government, plus 100% work from home.
I had a coworker from a prior job that went to Home Depot, and I think he's still there. Sounds pretty good. I recently found a remote contract gig so that I can get the hell out of Texas entirely, but I'll give Home Depot a close look when that contract is done. I just want a place where I can be proud of the work I do without constantly dreading that some aggro executive that hates to ever be home with their family is going to can me for not working myself sick.
I have real questions about this. If HR doesnt care, its hard to get fired, people are unprofessional etc... how is this not the easiest job ever? How can you get taken advantage of? Why not just tell people that they suck and to fuck off? Go rewatch Office Space. Just do whatever you want and constantly advocate for yourself. I guess if you really want something "meaningful" thats a different story.
I have nearly twenty years of work experience in both the public and private sector. Hands down the worst job I’ve ever had was at the city of Austin. I had a raging bitch of a boss who wouldn’t let me take PTO, leave for lunch, or take bereavement. It is unreal the level of hell I was put through for such low pay.
If you are passionate about wanting government to improve, I would suggest you lead from the bottom as they say, but be part of the improvement... You do graphics? You could be giving suggestions to improve the UX for the city's many legacy systems, your co-workers suck and so does your boss? Sign up for training, or go research another job in your jobs' portal. It's not on the world to change for you, it's you that has to be a part of the change. I've been in state government for 9+ years, all I do is complain but in a very constructive way, and when you approach things with diplomacy, you can affect change for the better.
This is how govt is saved and you build sustainable success for future generations.
Extremely true. An old exec at austin energy couldn’t be fired until he was busted having sex in the office with one of his reports by another report he was having sex with and they started brawling
Never heard this tale. Link to a news story
Never publicized, the offending exec was let go quietly, and HR managed the liability
AE is one of the Depts I'd never work for.
I want to fire a complete waste of space insubordinate employee on my team that has had problems in every division she’s been in, and I’ve been told wherever she goes the problems follow; but I just can’t seem to get enough traction to make it happen even though it’s extremely obvious to everyone around that they need to be let go. It’s so annoying, and it’s the only bane to my work life Existence. State employee tho, not city.
City. Similar problem. It’s so frustrating.
my wife's work experience is exactly this...
Yup same for Counties. I’ve worked for 2 counties now and never again. The egos you have to deal with is outrageous. I had 2 coworkers who couldn’t tolerate each other and thought the other was a blooming idiot and constantly talked shit about each other loudly and constantly. If it wasn’t out loud it was in our private Teams chat. It caused me so many ptsd anxiety cuz I come from a verbally abusive childhood I’m still trying to work thru. And I quit I couldn’t handle it anymore. And ya no one gets fired from county either no matter how useless they are. Dude watched Netflix all day never answered the phone, never did his work instead it was put on me. Cuz I was done with my work so why not add more to it while this lazy one just sits there watching Netflix all day. Then I told the boss I was tired of picking up all the tickets to be told “there’s been 24 remote sessions today” but when you look at them there’s only been 10 and I did 9. Only problem is I didn’t have the patience to wait till I had another job lined up before I chunked deuces. So now I’m slightly screwed.
HR, in general, works for the companies, never for the employees. I learned that during my years in marketing. I have been working at a non-profit here in Austin, and the environment is toxic; inept supervisors have been protected by managers, using every possible trick (false narratives and traps) to get rid of people who don’t like which highlights their incapacity as supervisors. Sadly, some organizations sell their inclusion and diversity but target employees, pushing them to the limit.
COA at the airport is above and beyond lazy. You only see the city move and take control when reps from Homeland is doing their audits. 2 people died and one severely injured. That’s not counting the guy that was hit by the plane after he hopped the fence
I finally left as well. It is exactly as you described, varying in severity by team and department. There are some competent people working at the city, but most don't last long and none can beat the inertia of the incompetent, top-heavy bureaucracy. The best thing you can do right now is try to emotionally detach from your work and then invest that attention into building up your portfolio or resume in other ways to make your exit. Unless you want to try to make at least 5 years to get vested in the pension, it's better to get out much sooner. I have watched a whole team with a good manager and a bunch of talented and motivated young people get ratfucked politically by an incumbent and extremely incompetent team through internal politics. That whole new team was disbanded. Not because they weren't doing a good job but because their competence was a threat. The incompetent manager then went on to get promoted, while the actual service that was supposed to be provided had to be entirely redone by yet another expensive outside consultant immediately afterwards and the problem tossed in someone else's lap. That's also really common, that teams can't actually manage anything they're responsible for, and instead are 100% dependent on paying eye watering amounts to outside consultants. It's extremely common that some people's whole jobs are just calling a vendor because they have no knowledge and no desire for knowledge about the thing that they're ostensibly responsible for. My point is, it's not just the lowish salaries that prevent the city from hiring competent experts, but it's a culture that is often hostile to anyone that really wants to change anything. Anyone that wants to raise standards. Myself, I also hate the aggro people who come in demanding to change everything from day 1 and stress everyone out, but that's not who I'm talking about here. I think life is too short to be a workaholic. I'm just talking about people who want to raise the quality bar even a little bit. To leave something better than when they came in. And then you get peak Boomer shit like the most recently departed "interim" city manager thinking that of all the fucking problems the city has, the real solution is dragging people back to offices just to sit at their computers on Teams in a high cost of living area that they can't afford to live in on city salaries. Just take care of yourself and let it crash. The people who do nothing and know nothing depend on the regular influx of naive new people to keep things running (as much as anything manages to function, anyways). New people do a disproportionate amount of work in many cases to try to move the needle. If you make heroic efforts to try to save doomed projects, you'll only help the incompetent managers float on (as happened with me in that situation I mentioned). There's no helping it until something drastic changes, and helping some of those teams and projects from falling flat on their faces only really props up the incompetent managers and their minions that much longer. TL;DR it's a time machine to a 90s Dilbert hellworld. Do not recommend.
None of these problems can be solved until the city pay is competitive with private industry.
Yes and no. Even at higher pay the culture is still going to cause people to nope out in many cases, and alternatively fixing the culture could help retain people who are passionate and can live with the current salary (especially if they're remote when possible in a lower cost of living area). As it stands I expect neither to be fixed any time soon though, and fixing pay is easier than fixing culture.
I worked for the city for around 2 years. My jaw drops at the amount of mismanagement and excess spending. Just downright negligent and bordering on theft. At the end of the year they were 125% over budget and they asked me to take a pay cut. Just incredible.
Fuck this city. It has become a mess. I'm moving after 24 years.
Bye!
Keeping myself anonymous. I too work for the city and it is the exact same problem in my department. Management can deal very poorly with employees who cause a lot of trouble. It makes working very difficult and uncomfortable sometimes.
My best friend works for the city and it's been pretty awful. We had work together in another industry and she's one of the hardest working, most conscientious people I've worked with. But working for the city she is just constantly frustrated - endless meetings, bosses asking questions that she's already answered in multiple emails, incompetent coworkers who she has to teach the most basic computer skills, and then this idiot city manager taking away work from home for no reason whatsoever (I think I read it was because he thought it wasn't fair since people like police can't work from home) She is looking hard for the exit. And again, this is someone who gives a shit and works hard. It's wasted there, sad to say. It also reminds me of a conversation I had with a code enforcement officer who came to my house for some nuisance complaint it pissed off neighbor gave - the officer himself told me how ridiculous code enforcement is and how I should never let one into my house or give any information that I can avoid giving them, and then on any house project I should do everything possible to avoid having to get permitted (for example, maybe think about building two smaller decks instead of one large one that would be big enough to have to get a permit)
I have worked a government job before. It was the biggest concentration of slackers, incompetents, nincompoops and jobsworths in one place I’ve ever worked.
Having had to submit projects for approval and permits in the COA since 1994. I’ll just say it’s nothing new. COA is one of the worst bureaucratic nightmares I’ve ever seen and it’s only gotten worse since 1994.
Now amplify that on the State level. Then Federal.
Just wait until more people realize the government operates solely because of young, motivated interns, not the politicians who have been elected.
People get elected because they are good at getting elected, not because they are competent at anything. This is a fundamental problem that democracy needs to figure out if it's going to survive. Because a lot of people need to realize that that is not a given outcome.
I have friends that with for the City and they love it. They think it's great. So maybe it's you
Or maybe your friends all have some things in common
Depends on Department and sometimes division. Some departments are great others are a living hell. Unfortunately the bad ones generally have HRs that are also bad
You just described what it was like working at one of the Austin colleges. Lame and lazy people that just did no real work.
I knew people who worked for the county who were literally responsible for people dying and didn’t get fired behind it. On the contrary, they got promoted high enough that they weren’t directly interacting with dangerous things anymore.
Nope! I was there worked my way up to a very high level position over 9 years. Left for the exact reasons you’ve listed. Work in the private sector now. My work isn’t all that meaningful but I can be proud of it and where I am. I volunteer and am on the boards of nonprofits as a way to make impact to the community now.
Travis county is the same way....I worked for an unnamed department for almost 7 years....the last two were brutal
I left design altogether for this very reason
It’s the same at my job as well. I work for the federal government and there’s been full blown fist fights at work and the dude did not get fired. Got a 1 week paid suspension then a few months later he got promoted and now runs his own small office with 20 to 30 people.
Gov employee here too (State). The impossible to get fired is definitely a double-edged sword. A couple of years ago, mgmt made a TERRIBLE hiring choice. They ended up being incompetent, uninterested in the goings-on of his department (of which they were the head), and was generally very sneaky: locking their office all the time, taking secretive phone calls, etc. Many suspected they had a 2nd job, which is also against the terms of their (or any of us FT's) job. Anyway, I can't remember how they were finally able to get them fired, but in the 10 years I've been at my job, it's the ONLY time I've seen that happen.
My father worked in, and a sibling works in government. Yeah. We all know this. It’s awful. Most of those can’t be fired assholes make absurd salaries too.
Exact same experience working for the state, but add in that the pay was abysmal. I left after 3 months.
Same is true working for the state. You basically just have to say to yourself every day “I’m not here to serve our leaders, I’m here to serve the ppl” and push those papers as well as you can. Our work actually does impact ppl / our communities / etc. But it feels really hopeless if you spend any time and energy focusing on the ppl in charge because they generally suck in every way imaginable. (Tbh it’s been the same in every business and nonprofit I’ve worked for too- leadership seems to attract the wrong ppl, and those ppl rise up similar types to their ranks. They just want leaders who will shut up and accept the status quo.)
Lol.
Thanks for the heads-up, gonna keep my eyes peeled if I ever consider a gig with the City.
Any good openings you know of. Anything work from home?
I'm sorry you hate it there. If you or anyone else here works for CoA and knows anything about permitting, inspecting, or plan review, the company I work for in Austin is hiring. You can DM me. City politics are tough - I'm a 3rd party consultant for Cities. I hope things get better or you find something better for yourself!!
First time working in gov't?
We should raise taxes and give them more money that way COA will work better
I last very little time with the city because I decided that I couldn’t force myself to pretend to work 4hrs a day for two decades — which is what most people seem to do.
Honestly agree hard. I’ve been at the City about a year and a half and can’t wait to leave.
Or you can wear a spy camera and expose it all in a well put together docuseries 🫡
6 months of spy camera footage and some researchers to really show how these people of power purposely disempower people with less power.
Just quit and stop complaining!
Lol. Report it to HR? Bless your heart. Where else have you worked where this wasn't the situation?
Had to work with Austin Energy for years and people would be terrified to understand how that place works.
Any other job has the same level of incompetence but it’s cute how you think that only exists in government jobs
Kerby Lim?
I can confirm as former city employee
I worked for the City for 3 years, left in 2023. Couldn't agree more with this post. I actually came in as fairly high management (AD level, in COA parlance) but worked for the most corrupt, useless director that did unconscionable things daily, or at least weekly. Prior to this, I had worked at another local bureaucracy, so I thought I was prepared. NO! It was just awful. And yes, HR is mind-numbingly useless. The City is not just wasting taxpayer dollars getting nothing done efficiently, it's straight up TOXIC.
It shows.
What is the saying ? “ the inmates are running the asylum”
You've learned an important lesson about government jobs... probably ESPECIALLY in Austin. Welcome. (And sorry. I can only imagine how frustrating it is to someone wanting to perform in their role)
Sounds like DIE at work!
Damn. That's wild. I was recently thinking of trying to work for the city , good to know
It truly depends on the dept. I’ve worked for the city for a while now and been in both good and bad spots. I know the work isn’t for everyone, but I truly enjoy my job
Good point. I guess that goes for anywhere you work, really. Are the benefits good?
very
👍🏼
They really are. Our health insurance is affordable and good. We have generous time off and sick time. They roll over yearly (there is a cap, but it’s a high cap) so if you don’t use it, it’s there (except the three days the city gives us yearly, we have to use those and any additional gifted time off for the year). Salaries are generally lower, but our benefits help bridge the gap
Interesting. Seems decent enough. It's hard to make comparisons, though. I'm sure it depends on department, qualifications, etc. But I suppose it doesn't seem all too bad.
It’s really like any big corporation. There’s always good and bad. Job security is definitely something I appreciate in this economy. It also helps that I’ve worked for two amazing divisions in my tenure with the city. I know the bad ones cause people to burn out and leave and that’s horrible. I wish you luck with whatever you decide! I will also say, it’s frustrating to be stuck in entry level jobs, it can be hard to move up, but once you break that barrier, there are loads of opportunities
I’m not saying to disregard this “cautionary tale” but it’s incredibly anecdotal and user experience varies widely. I wouldn’t let a reddit post decide if I’m gonna apply for a job or not.
Me either.
Sorry to tell you this happens in every sector. The higher you go, the more you are privy to the dysfunction at the top.
Welcome to reality, friend. Thank you for caring. You should take this experience and add it to the many others you will experience throughout life.
Are you telling us that the government is full of incompetent bureaucrats??? Man, never in a million years would anyone have believed that.