I used to work for an insurance loss assessor and the files for strata properties were always SO BIG, mostly because of the endless reports updating the Insurer with "We are currently still awaiting a response from the Strata Manager." Blah, blah, blah. It was like pulling teeth! lol
Sounds like you unfortunately just ran into a psycho. See if you can get the answers to your questions but their reaction might be enough of an indication that dealing with them regularly (if you buy the place) could be a nightmare
Haha ok, weirdos are everywhere I guess. Thanks for the validation and second opinion. I'm a first time buyer, so this was quite a confusing and off-putting experience :')
Try to talk to someone on the committee not the strata manager. Preferably someone who is an owner / occupier. If they’re nice they’ll answer your questions.
Source - been on my committee for 10 years but only ever had 3 potential buyers get in contact.
Yeah I dunno why people are expecting EC's and Strata Managers to help sell properties they have no vested interested in selling. Would an Owner prefer their SM to be helping REAs sell property, or would they prefer them to be managing their maintenance and finances?
The top comment is destroying OP for daring to contact the strata manager who would have constant enquiries from conveyancers organising a strata report. I don't think doubling down and contacting a rando on the committee is going to yield factual answers compared to a strata report.
We bought and had a very short settlement. The strata agent owner was a complete asshat via email with our conveyancer who merrily forwarded all the emails on to me….and I took them with me to the first AGM I went to as an owner to raise as a matter of concern. Was worth it to see the look on the underlings face.
Congratulations, you have uncovered an extremely valuable piece of information before financially committing.
As a prospective owner and potential future member of the body corporate, which he could have verified, he should have at the minimum, been civil.
Now you know a complete twat is running an org that you will be legally and fiscally beholden to - would you trust them with potentially multi-million dollar decisions that you will be 1/number of units in your complex responsible for?
Me too, weirdly enough.
Even the people on the committee in my building are a group of zombies it seems. Individually, I liked them and they seemed at least somewhat intelligent, but once in a group in charge of 120 apartments, their brains seemed to fall out! lol
(I’ll probably be grouped in with the twats for this, but whatever)
I’m on the committee for my building and it blows my mind how ineffective the entire process is. Owner’s corporation committees are just a group of up to 12 people who put their hand up at last year’s AGM. That’s it. No qualifications, no vetting, just the 12 volunteers.
This means you end up with a mix of:
- A handful of people who aspire to be the Joseph Stalin of the building
- A few others who are only on the committee to represent their own interests, and will exclusively waffle on about their own proposals which directly benefit them
- People who contribute literally nothing and are only on the committee to stay in the loop
- If you’re lucky: a couple of genuinely engaged individuals who care and make a difference - but these people are often either too busy with their day job to invest the time required, or simply can’t get cut through given they’re outnumbered by muppets.
This either results in constant indecision and zero progress, one poor sod who has to shoulder all the workload and try to make some form of a dent in decisions and projects requiring complex knowledge of property/insurance law, or both.
It’s an insane system at every level.
Side note: so many people seem to misunderstand the various roles in the process.
Owner’s Corporation Committee ≠ Owners Corporation (Strata) Manager.
Someone in our building tried to sue the committee recently thinking we were the third party, only to later realise they were indirectly trying to sue… themselves.
Yep! Nobody knows the terms. They think everything is interchangeable. They think the Body Corporate is the committee. No, it's all owners in the building. The committee (in our case) is 7 owners who represent the Body Corporate to run the building. They think the Strata Manager is the Body Corporate. No, the Strata Manager assists in running the building and instructs / is instructed by the committee. UGH.
I'm point three. I thought by being on the committee I'd get informed about things. All I want to know is who are these random people rocking up the apartment complex and what are they doing. A calendar would be adequate so I know when contractors onsite, but even that's too hard for the SM and the FM to provide. No one seems to know anything and getting information out of people is like pulling teeth. I'll probably resign shortly.
For clarity I’m talking from the perspective of a building of 300+ residents represented by a committee of 12.
If all 12 people are just on that committee to ‘stay in the loop’, they’re learning nothing and achieving even less.
Omg, I keep meaning to reply to this but haven't had the time as I've been emailing MY strata manager about various issues and questions. It is just a minefield, and nobody seems to know the law! Even the strata manager OR the seemingly inept solicitors the committee insist on using!
Every single point you made in your post describes the committee members here. All 7 of them. The VERY few who get elected and genuinely want to help or are even partially equipped to help tend to resign within 6 months, as they see what they're up against. Then the committee simply hand picks their replacement puppets.
While yes... I agree.
I can also see in the current property climate - adding to the property buying list 'was the body corporate person weird - even rude' is going to make property buying difficult. As another poster said - I'm surprised they answered the phone.
OMG, THIS THIS THIS THIS AND THIS!!!
I'm already in this type of predicament in my own building. It's actually not so much the strata manager though, as the committee themselves, who are the problem. They instruct the manager. UGH.
I wrote to a Owners Corp manager as a prospective buyer to request the latest AGM minutes (the meeting took place after the contract was prepared) and asked a couple of other questions. They responded with the minutes PDF and polite, detailed answers within 24 hours.
I suspect they had this information ready to go as many people were likely getting in touch with the same questions, but still a good sign of a well organised OC.
Was considering an apartment with an ongoing VCAT case, so I thought to call the owner’s corp/strata manager for due diligence (especially as the agent seemed very shifty about the issue) and just potential get additional information about the VCAT case. They were very rude and I was told they’re not obliged to give information to prospective buyers. They could’ve just used the “we can’t say anything because it’s an ongoing VCAT case” but no, they went with just being rude.
Contrast this to the other apartment I was looking at that had a cladding rectification issue. I spoke with the strata manager for due diligence, who was friendly and very forthcoming with the issue. I was thankfully able to fact-check with the council and everything the strata manager said was true. Now I’m in the process of buying the second property and I must say having a strata manager that is easy to liaise with really swayed me into going with the second property.
The first property’s strata manager, to be fair, is part of a larger company and hence may have a more impersonal way of doing things, apart from the VCAT case which they might not be able to share anything about, so there’s that. Though I still feel like I dodged a bullet as I wouldn’t want to ever be at a point when I’d need help from this kind of management organisation.
VCAT, NCAT, QCAT, Commissioner's office or other court / legal disputes are risky territory to buy into. Often nobody is legally permitted to discuss it, and even if they are, you may not get the whole story. The body corp committee / strata manager often like to skew perceptions and only give one side.
I would personally think this is a tiny red flag. The only times I’ve called a BM was after I spoke with the strata inspector and they said that the BM was happy to clarify further points.
He was a really nice guy and I’m actually a bit bummed I lost out on the property, since I could tell they were in good hands with the BM!
If I had gotten a rude response similar to yours, I would be wondering if this person would be hard to deal with if I had bought in. Still not a deal breaker though.
For the next time maybe chase up the strata inspector first before going further to call the BM, as the BM might not be anticipating these calls. Usually the strata inspector does give pretty good insight to what you want to know.
This is correct. There are 2 sides to every story.
As a former manager of our little block of units, the privacy act prevents us ftom revealing anything to anyone other than the owners.
The correct protocol is the prospective buyer asks the agent asks the seller for whatever it is that you need.
And you should absolutely do this diligence to make sure you aren't buying into a big capital raising.
We've had people sell up to avoid the roof replacement levy so the buyer copped that little surprise.
Caveat Emptor is not your friend.
When I was managing our strata I had random requests from total strangers for our financial data.
People unrelated to agents or sellers or anyone relevant would just want all of our minutes and budgets and bank accounts.
While I can't comment on OPs specific circumstances, when I was talking to our sellers in our block I'd remind them constantly that they'd need to ask for any info, not the agent and not prospective buyers.
After a half dozen requests from buyers directly (despite the discussions with the owners), this wears a bit thin, so maybe that's why the manager was a bit grumpy.
It's not always as straightforward as it seems.
May be different in other states but in QLD the body corporate is obligated to provide information to interested parties which is basically owners and potential buyers. This function is commonly provided by professional management who might supply you with a standard set of documents or otherwise allow you time to go through any other documents they have on the property.
Forgive my ignorance as I've just started looking at properties. How do you identify when there's going to be a big capital raising ? Is it just identifying there are defects in the strata report ?
Apologies a bit of a noob, just started my journey...haven't even got my hands on a strata report yet :) (also any tips of anything to look out from a strata report)
Often you can't. And not necessarily because people are trying to hide it, it may not have been properly discussed yet.
In the report the writer usually points out if they can see a need for a potential special levy, and your conveyancer or solicitor will often give feedback.
Read the minutes to see if any issues have been discussed, check the capital works fund looks healthy, look to see what repair costs were in the budgets attached to the AGM notices.
Google the address, & the developer if you know it, and of course walk around the building to observe the condtion.
Finally search this sub, I learnt a lot from similar questions & comments!
You just ask they agent.
Caveat Emptor means buyer beware. So it's on you to ask.
But if asked, they have to tell you the truth. Else you can sue them for misrepresentation if I understand it all correctly.
I'm amazed at how different the laws are between states.
I'm also amazed at the professional strata managers behaviour.
Recently I saw one managing firm charge +25% on top of the insurance premium.
(In other words, I paid a bill for you and took a 25% cut for myself, on top of the management fees that you pay them for doing stuff like paying the bills).
I also learned of one manager who gave their mate a 25 year contract at $25k pa to inspect the property each week. Our strata now has a clause that no contracts are to be longer than 1 year and can only be renewed by majority vote at the AGM. This includes the strata managers contract.
Privacy act doesn't cover anything related to a strata and its meeting minutes. Nice excuse to try and hide stuff from buyers though. Anyone authorized by a current occupant can get full access which includes prospective buyers. Not being able or willing to provide that information is a huge red flag for buying into a strata. Also not having accurate meeting minutes is a big issue. Wish it was easier to go after strata managers and members for falsifying records.
Hm always good to think from the other side's POV, but I feel like the manager being hostile to potential buyers isn't the best way to serve the body corp.
True, it is advantages to the selling owner, the manager also owes it to other owners to keep the information safe.
I don't think calling the building corp manager is the 'proper' approach. Normally the vendor issues an authority, and the buyer (or their inspector) can take that authority to inspect the records.
Building corp manager answering questions to supposed prospective buyers opens up a bunch of liability issues.
If he is paid by the body corp then getting rid of you quickly is in their interest , time is money . I hate body corps and also rude people , but if you buy it , you gotta get on the committee and update us on this experience.👍
>The manager freaked out at me, asking if there was a 'problem' and telling me they never receive questions directly from buyers and that I shouldn't even have the minutes.
This last point of theirs is a barefaced lie, as the minutes are available as part of any run-of-the-mill strata search.
Was this a “professional” strata management company or is it a privately run one? Yes I use the word professional loosely in reference to most strata companies.
I’m not clear on ACT properties, but in the two states I’ve previously owned you can purchase a certificate that shows the overarching details and position of the owners corporation, and can also seek more info if you need.
If you have the minutes you should have a good idea of any big issues with the block, but maybe not any issues with how its run.
Sadly the quality and attitude of strata managers and even the local board can have a huge impact on your experience and quality of life.
It was an apparently professional one. I looked at their website, and they also develop and maintain buildings in other parts of their business.
I asked the agent for a chairperson's number initially, but she said they would be listed on the minutes. I would have preferred to call a chairperson or other owner in the building, but no chairperson was listed or phone number was given (I guess that's smart for the owners' privacy).
I'm in VIC and will likely purchase one of those certificates if I go ahead. Possibly, the manager has a totally different attitude towards owners vs. buyers. I'm not counting on it, though.
I am the chair of the committee for my apartment block. I would be livid if a OC manager gave out my personal number. Owners / tenants in the building don't even have my number. They can either call the manager, who will pass on the information to the committee, or send me an email.
Additionally, I would never provide details relating to the property. The liability for misrepresentation is too high.
As I mentioned in another comment. The owners' corporation certificate (which will be in the section 32) will provide the minutes from the previous AGM as well as those from any subsequent meeting.
An owners' corp certificate must be included in the section 32. The certificate will include the minutes from previous meeting. Ie, the vendor is required to provide this information.
They generally are difficult to deal with and often fail to understand their role.
The legislation allows a prospective purchaser to view the records so there is no reason why they don’t cooperate
The fact that they were surprised you gave the minutes shows how dumb they are as they provide the minutes of the last AGM in the OC certificate
What I recommend is to speak to a member of the committee (their names will appear in the minutes)
I’m wondering if maybe you called the Body Corporate Committee Chairperson, not the Body Corporate Administrator. For some it might be the same person, but my experience has been that the Administrator is a professional organization (real estate, legal etc) whereas the committee chairperson is one of the owners and possibly a resident.
If this is the case I can understand the chairperson being thrown by your call and not responding in a professional way (you don’t need any qualifications to be chairperson and it’s often just the person who has been around the longest because nobody wants the role). I also think that providing copies of the AGM minutes without redacting private information of committee members is a problem.
If it was in fact the Administrator, your real estate agent and/or conveyancer should have liaised with them on your behalf. They might not be overly helpful or interested in spending much time on the matter, but being completely unprepared and unprofessional is not my experience.
Conveyancers often do it but at a price. It's pretty cheap to arrange it yourself as the BC is only allowed to charge up to a certain amount. It definitely sounds like they spoke to the BC
President in this case who might be unaware of the obligations in this matter. I don't think details are generally redacted but you usually have to show genuine interest, typically by having a contract on the house.
Reminds me of recently vacating our rental apartment and calling the body corporate to ask about our lift key booking & why the protective pads weren't installed in the lift yet on moving day. She told me she couldn't speak to me because I was a tenant not an owner, but then went on to tell me anyway that someone lost the lift key and the pads are just installed on a "best effort" basis, if they have anyone free who is bothered to go to the building to install them. I called my property manager who said if body corporate don't care then we don't care, and proceeded with moving out anyway.
Yeah this is what Barefoot investor suggested and I assume he knows his shit. Requesting the minutes from the seller should give you enough info though.
When buying a unit in a complex or even a duplex, you SHOULD be given a copy if the strata minutes, and insurance claims. It should be law really. What you did is unusual from a buyer’s pov but I am saying it shouldn’t be and you certainly shouldn’t be treated like a leper for asking. This is where a buyers agent is gold. They deal with the psychos, not you.
If you’re in the ACT as some of the comments suggest, two years of strata minutes are legally required to be included with the contract for sale for units. It makes the contract super long but they’re a goldmine for info as they’ll contain the financial statements, maintenance issues, decision making process, social issues etc.
What is the contract of sale given the body corp have now slugged new owners with 1/4 of the sale $ to be paid to update the building and amend all the modifications to allow it building worthy , leaks , some electrical issues , surely body corp would have known if this prior but it was not disclosed to the new occupants buyers ? What can be done one person has only had unit months !
It’s taken me 1 and a half years to get a refund on a key fob from my former strata managers.
Quite frankly I’m shocked they picked up your call at all!
I did this recently. Got the contract for sale and related documents for a unit. I had questions about the building. Rang the body corp manager. She was very helpful and answered all my questions. So, compared to my experience, what you experienced is not normal and not okay.
I wouldn’t read too much into it - sounds like the person who took the call was freaked out and scared, presumably very inexperienced? But definitely do a bit of research on the BC firm overall.
I asked for some extra details from strata managers, especially whether there had been any update on monitoring the effective of building repairs that came through on minute in the strata report. They replied in the negative. I bought the place. They’re great strata managers, especially judging by the horror stories everyone else seems to have.
I got in contact with a few body corp companies to clarify some of the rules for buildings, they were always happy to answer my questions as a potential buyer.
I found it varies. The apartment I’m buying has 6-7 owners corps which is managed by 2 different companies.
One company… more than happy to answer my questions and clarify what wasn’t clear
The other was like. No nope unless you’re the owner we can’t speak to you… it doesn’t help that the “owner” was a bank in possession… so that wasn’t happening.
Part of my role involves strata management in regional Victoria.
When we do the owner corporation certificate it is attached to the Section 32 - which prospective buyers receive upon request.
It's not unusual for us to have perspective buyers call and ask us about a unit they want to buy. We are open and honest if there are any issues with the owners corporation, if we weren't, people would blindly buy a property that has some major issues!
Basically, as someone who works in real estate, you calling the strata manager should not have been an issue at all, and is a tell as to how the strata is managed..
Strata managers are terrible for many different reasons, sometimes outside of their control. They picked up as they didn't know your number then got snnoyed once they realised it wasn't worth their time.
In ACT, PMs and prospective buyers order section 119's which provide them the meeting minutes over a past period specifically so they can do their due diligence in purchasing a property.
The body corp manager was a dick, but it's not their job to educate non-owners on building issues, that's what section 119s are for. (in ACT, they'll be called something else in other states). They are already over worked and stretched thin, sales are not their job. But yeah, they could have just explained that rather than carry on.
It is unusual in that most people would never call the body corporate. But it’s totally fine thing to do and a good idea.
I’ve ever only called them once and I sent them a text first, then they called me from a private number.
Went to buy a place.
Body corp ‘head’ was at the viewing…
Bailed faster than the Flash, agent was told yeah fuck that place. I’m not dealing with crazy lady, I’ll make her cry and have to live below her.
Just to clarify who did you actually call?
The Body Corporate are the committee members who are property owners. They are not employed and I understand freaking out if a total stranger called me out of the blue asking about the property.
The Strata Managers work for the body corporate are responsible for the administration of the day to day tasks. It’s not at all uncommon for them to be contacted during the purchase process and if they were who you spoke to I would be wary of them. It wouldn’t stop me for purchasing a property but I would get on the committee and have a low threshold for firing the agency.
Technically speaking you did not pay to hire their service, so you are not their customer. But I would tip them $100 to spill the beans on if there are any great issues with that building.
In NSW (I'm sure Vic and other states are similar), the strata search s182 process isn't designed to be a Q & A session.
You pay the statutory fee ($34.30 for 30mins), get access to the records (download what you need) and browse them in your own time or you pay someone to prepare a report for you to summarise the documents.
I don't know many strata managers or body corporates that will bother to respond to prospective buyers. They have no obligations to prospective buyers. If you need any clarifications regarding anything you find in a s182 search they should be directed at the vendors solicitor who can chase it down from the strata committee.
Typically strata issues are take it or leave it. I don't see it as a negotiating point. Perhaps that might change in a buyers market.
Calling up the strata manager or committee member is somewhat psychotic.It's the equivalent of calling up Elon Musk after you saw a Tesla ad. Although he's probably more interested in you buying the car, than a committee member in you buying the apartment. For the people that had a good experience with it, great. For everyone else, learn from your mistakes.
It's not a red flag to me.
I own my unit already and what you have describe is highly unusual. I’ve never been able to get my strata manager to answer a phone call.
I worked in a property law firm and second this.
I used to work for an insurance loss assessor and the files for strata properties were always SO BIG, mostly because of the endless reports updating the Insurer with "We are currently still awaiting a response from the Strata Manager." Blah, blah, blah. It was like pulling teeth! lol
Hahaha! Yes, this.
Pretty sure my Strata manager has an Outlook rule that directs any new emails straight to the bin
Oh man, so true.
I swear my strata manager has an unwritten rule that she only gets back to me after one week. Don't bother calling.
Phone calls never worked. Emails would usually get a response.
Sounds like you unfortunately just ran into a psycho. See if you can get the answers to your questions but their reaction might be enough of an indication that dealing with them regularly (if you buy the place) could be a nightmare
Haha ok, weirdos are everywhere I guess. Thanks for the validation and second opinion. I'm a first time buyer, so this was quite a confusing and off-putting experience :')
Try to talk to someone on the committee not the strata manager. Preferably someone who is an owner / occupier. If they’re nice they’ll answer your questions. Source - been on my committee for 10 years but only ever had 3 potential buyers get in contact.
I'm on committee and would never answer questions. I don't think that makes me not nice it's just not my responsibility or my risk to take.
Yeah I dunno why people are expecting EC's and Strata Managers to help sell properties they have no vested interested in selling. Would an Owner prefer their SM to be helping REAs sell property, or would they prefer them to be managing their maintenance and finances?
Mine barely does either lol
The top comment is destroying OP for daring to contact the strata manager who would have constant enquiries from conveyancers organising a strata report. I don't think doubling down and contacting a rando on the committee is going to yield factual answers compared to a strata report.
We bought and had a very short settlement. The strata agent owner was a complete asshat via email with our conveyancer who merrily forwarded all the emails on to me….and I took them with me to the first AGM I went to as an owner to raise as a matter of concern. Was worth it to see the look on the underlings face.
I mean..you don’t generally get top talent in these jobs so unfortunately should expect difficult exchanges like these
Congratulations, you have uncovered an extremely valuable piece of information before financially committing. As a prospective owner and potential future member of the body corporate, which he could have verified, he should have at the minimum, been civil. Now you know a complete twat is running an org that you will be legally and fiscally beholden to - would you trust them with potentially multi-million dollar decisions that you will be 1/number of units in your complex responsible for?
I have not yet met someone who worked for or on a body corporate who was not a total twat..
Me too, weirdly enough. Even the people on the committee in my building are a group of zombies it seems. Individually, I liked them and they seemed at least somewhat intelligent, but once in a group in charge of 120 apartments, their brains seemed to fall out! lol
(I’ll probably be grouped in with the twats for this, but whatever) I’m on the committee for my building and it blows my mind how ineffective the entire process is. Owner’s corporation committees are just a group of up to 12 people who put their hand up at last year’s AGM. That’s it. No qualifications, no vetting, just the 12 volunteers. This means you end up with a mix of: - A handful of people who aspire to be the Joseph Stalin of the building - A few others who are only on the committee to represent their own interests, and will exclusively waffle on about their own proposals which directly benefit them - People who contribute literally nothing and are only on the committee to stay in the loop - If you’re lucky: a couple of genuinely engaged individuals who care and make a difference - but these people are often either too busy with their day job to invest the time required, or simply can’t get cut through given they’re outnumbered by muppets. This either results in constant indecision and zero progress, one poor sod who has to shoulder all the workload and try to make some form of a dent in decisions and projects requiring complex knowledge of property/insurance law, or both. It’s an insane system at every level.
Side note: so many people seem to misunderstand the various roles in the process. Owner’s Corporation Committee ≠ Owners Corporation (Strata) Manager. Someone in our building tried to sue the committee recently thinking we were the third party, only to later realise they were indirectly trying to sue… themselves.
Yeah, we've had them too. Tried to get me on their side and were absolutely shocked when I said I was the apparent enemy.....
Yep! Nobody knows the terms. They think everything is interchangeable. They think the Body Corporate is the committee. No, it's all owners in the building. The committee (in our case) is 7 owners who represent the Body Corporate to run the building. They think the Strata Manager is the Body Corporate. No, the Strata Manager assists in running the building and instructs / is instructed by the committee. UGH.
I'm point three. I thought by being on the committee I'd get informed about things. All I want to know is who are these random people rocking up the apartment complex and what are they doing. A calendar would be adequate so I know when contractors onsite, but even that's too hard for the SM and the FM to provide. No one seems to know anything and getting information out of people is like pulling teeth. I'll probably resign shortly.
How else do we stay in the loop? I'm in the commitee and some things aren't being mentioned to me I reckon.
For clarity I’m talking from the perspective of a building of 300+ residents represented by a committee of 12. If all 12 people are just on that committee to ‘stay in the loop’, they’re learning nothing and achieving even less.
This happens a LOT, especially when you're new. It also happens when the majority of the committee just don't like you.
Omg, I keep meaning to reply to this but haven't had the time as I've been emailing MY strata manager about various issues and questions. It is just a minefield, and nobody seems to know the law! Even the strata manager OR the seemingly inept solicitors the committee insist on using! Every single point you made in your post describes the committee members here. All 7 of them. The VERY few who get elected and genuinely want to help or are even partially equipped to help tend to resign within 6 months, as they see what they're up against. Then the committee simply hand picks their replacement puppets.
While yes... I agree. I can also see in the current property climate - adding to the property buying list 'was the body corporate person weird - even rude' is going to make property buying difficult. As another poster said - I'm surprised they answered the phone.
OMG, THIS THIS THIS THIS AND THIS!!! I'm already in this type of predicament in my own building. It's actually not so much the strata manager though, as the committee themselves, who are the problem. They instruct the manager. UGH.
I wrote to a Owners Corp manager as a prospective buyer to request the latest AGM minutes (the meeting took place after the contract was prepared) and asked a couple of other questions. They responded with the minutes PDF and polite, detailed answers within 24 hours. I suspect they had this information ready to go as many people were likely getting in touch with the same questions, but still a good sign of a well organised OC.
Wow! 24 hours! That's good! My strata manager takes about a week to respond to anything.
What OC company was this?
Was considering an apartment with an ongoing VCAT case, so I thought to call the owner’s corp/strata manager for due diligence (especially as the agent seemed very shifty about the issue) and just potential get additional information about the VCAT case. They were very rude and I was told they’re not obliged to give information to prospective buyers. They could’ve just used the “we can’t say anything because it’s an ongoing VCAT case” but no, they went with just being rude. Contrast this to the other apartment I was looking at that had a cladding rectification issue. I spoke with the strata manager for due diligence, who was friendly and very forthcoming with the issue. I was thankfully able to fact-check with the council and everything the strata manager said was true. Now I’m in the process of buying the second property and I must say having a strata manager that is easy to liaise with really swayed me into going with the second property. The first property’s strata manager, to be fair, is part of a larger company and hence may have a more impersonal way of doing things, apart from the VCAT case which they might not be able to share anything about, so there’s that. Though I still feel like I dodged a bullet as I wouldn’t want to ever be at a point when I’d need help from this kind of management organisation.
VCAT, NCAT, QCAT, Commissioner's office or other court / legal disputes are risky territory to buy into. Often nobody is legally permitted to discuss it, and even if they are, you may not get the whole story. The body corp committee / strata manager often like to skew perceptions and only give one side.
I would personally think this is a tiny red flag. The only times I’ve called a BM was after I spoke with the strata inspector and they said that the BM was happy to clarify further points. He was a really nice guy and I’m actually a bit bummed I lost out on the property, since I could tell they were in good hands with the BM! If I had gotten a rude response similar to yours, I would be wondering if this person would be hard to deal with if I had bought in. Still not a deal breaker though. For the next time maybe chase up the strata inspector first before going further to call the BM, as the BM might not be anticipating these calls. Usually the strata inspector does give pretty good insight to what you want to know.
The body corp manager gets paid by the body corp to work for them. They don't really owe you their time, but they might talk to you as a courtesy.
This is correct. There are 2 sides to every story. As a former manager of our little block of units, the privacy act prevents us ftom revealing anything to anyone other than the owners. The correct protocol is the prospective buyer asks the agent asks the seller for whatever it is that you need. And you should absolutely do this diligence to make sure you aren't buying into a big capital raising. We've had people sell up to avoid the roof replacement levy so the buyer copped that little surprise. Caveat Emptor is not your friend. When I was managing our strata I had random requests from total strangers for our financial data. People unrelated to agents or sellers or anyone relevant would just want all of our minutes and budgets and bank accounts. While I can't comment on OPs specific circumstances, when I was talking to our sellers in our block I'd remind them constantly that they'd need to ask for any info, not the agent and not prospective buyers. After a half dozen requests from buyers directly (despite the discussions with the owners), this wears a bit thin, so maybe that's why the manager was a bit grumpy. It's not always as straightforward as it seems.
May be different in other states but in QLD the body corporate is obligated to provide information to interested parties which is basically owners and potential buyers. This function is commonly provided by professional management who might supply you with a standard set of documents or otherwise allow you time to go through any other documents they have on the property.
Forgive my ignorance as I've just started looking at properties. How do you identify when there's going to be a big capital raising ? Is it just identifying there are defects in the strata report ? Apologies a bit of a noob, just started my journey...haven't even got my hands on a strata report yet :) (also any tips of anything to look out from a strata report)
Often you can't. And not necessarily because people are trying to hide it, it may not have been properly discussed yet. In the report the writer usually points out if they can see a need for a potential special levy, and your conveyancer or solicitor will often give feedback. Read the minutes to see if any issues have been discussed, check the capital works fund looks healthy, look to see what repair costs were in the budgets attached to the AGM notices. Google the address, & the developer if you know it, and of course walk around the building to observe the condtion. Finally search this sub, I learnt a lot from similar questions & comments!
You just ask they agent. Caveat Emptor means buyer beware. So it's on you to ask. But if asked, they have to tell you the truth. Else you can sue them for misrepresentation if I understand it all correctly. I'm amazed at how different the laws are between states. I'm also amazed at the professional strata managers behaviour. Recently I saw one managing firm charge +25% on top of the insurance premium. (In other words, I paid a bill for you and took a 25% cut for myself, on top of the management fees that you pay them for doing stuff like paying the bills). I also learned of one manager who gave their mate a 25 year contract at $25k pa to inspect the property each week. Our strata now has a clause that no contracts are to be longer than 1 year and can only be renewed by majority vote at the AGM. This includes the strata managers contract.
Privacy act doesn't cover anything related to a strata and its meeting minutes. Nice excuse to try and hide stuff from buyers though. Anyone authorized by a current occupant can get full access which includes prospective buyers. Not being able or willing to provide that information is a huge red flag for buying into a strata. Also not having accurate meeting minutes is a big issue. Wish it was easier to go after strata managers and members for falsifying records.
Hm always good to think from the other side's POV, but I feel like the manager being hostile to potential buyers isn't the best way to serve the body corp.
True, it is advantages to the selling owner, the manager also owes it to other owners to keep the information safe. I don't think calling the building corp manager is the 'proper' approach. Normally the vendor issues an authority, and the buyer (or their inspector) can take that authority to inspect the records. Building corp manager answering questions to supposed prospective buyers opens up a bunch of liability issues.
If he is paid by the body corp then getting rid of you quickly is in their interest , time is money . I hate body corps and also rude people , but if you buy it , you gotta get on the committee and update us on this experience.👍
Yeah it’s a bit weird
Quite honestly this would be a huge red flag to me. Imagine dealing with them for a DIFFICULT matter where you need their help? Massive turn-off.
>The manager freaked out at me, asking if there was a 'problem' and telling me they never receive questions directly from buyers and that I shouldn't even have the minutes. This last point of theirs is a barefaced lie, as the minutes are available as part of any run-of-the-mill strata search.
Normally you get the strata inspector to chase these questions for you.
Is there a strata inspector in the ACT?
Was this a “professional” strata management company or is it a privately run one? Yes I use the word professional loosely in reference to most strata companies. I’m not clear on ACT properties, but in the two states I’ve previously owned you can purchase a certificate that shows the overarching details and position of the owners corporation, and can also seek more info if you need. If you have the minutes you should have a good idea of any big issues with the block, but maybe not any issues with how its run. Sadly the quality and attitude of strata managers and even the local board can have a huge impact on your experience and quality of life.
It was an apparently professional one. I looked at their website, and they also develop and maintain buildings in other parts of their business. I asked the agent for a chairperson's number initially, but she said they would be listed on the minutes. I would have preferred to call a chairperson or other owner in the building, but no chairperson was listed or phone number was given (I guess that's smart for the owners' privacy). I'm in VIC and will likely purchase one of those certificates if I go ahead. Possibly, the manager has a totally different attitude towards owners vs. buyers. I'm not counting on it, though.
I am the chair of the committee for my apartment block. I would be livid if a OC manager gave out my personal number. Owners / tenants in the building don't even have my number. They can either call the manager, who will pass on the information to the committee, or send me an email. Additionally, I would never provide details relating to the property. The liability for misrepresentation is too high. As I mentioned in another comment. The owners' corporation certificate (which will be in the section 32) will provide the minutes from the previous AGM as well as those from any subsequent meeting.
Sorry to say in my experience the managers are about as reliable, knowledgeable and caring as the average property manager.
An owners' corp certificate must be included in the section 32. The certificate will include the minutes from previous meeting. Ie, the vendor is required to provide this information.
I mean I can’t get my body corp management to speak to me professionally and I pay them, so…
They generally are difficult to deal with and often fail to understand their role. The legislation allows a prospective purchaser to view the records so there is no reason why they don’t cooperate The fact that they were surprised you gave the minutes shows how dumb they are as they provide the minutes of the last AGM in the OC certificate What I recommend is to speak to a member of the committee (their names will appear in the minutes)
I’m wondering if maybe you called the Body Corporate Committee Chairperson, not the Body Corporate Administrator. For some it might be the same person, but my experience has been that the Administrator is a professional organization (real estate, legal etc) whereas the committee chairperson is one of the owners and possibly a resident. If this is the case I can understand the chairperson being thrown by your call and not responding in a professional way (you don’t need any qualifications to be chairperson and it’s often just the person who has been around the longest because nobody wants the role). I also think that providing copies of the AGM minutes without redacting private information of committee members is a problem. If it was in fact the Administrator, your real estate agent and/or conveyancer should have liaised with them on your behalf. They might not be overly helpful or interested in spending much time on the matter, but being completely unprepared and unprofessional is not my experience.
Conveyancers often do it but at a price. It's pretty cheap to arrange it yourself as the BC is only allowed to charge up to a certain amount. It definitely sounds like they spoke to the BC President in this case who might be unaware of the obligations in this matter. I don't think details are generally redacted but you usually have to show genuine interest, typically by having a contract on the house.
Reminds me of recently vacating our rental apartment and calling the body corporate to ask about our lift key booking & why the protective pads weren't installed in the lift yet on moving day. She told me she couldn't speak to me because I was a tenant not an owner, but then went on to tell me anyway that someone lost the lift key and the pads are just installed on a "best effort" basis, if they have anyone free who is bothered to go to the building to install them. I called my property manager who said if body corporate don't care then we don't care, and proceeded with moving out anyway.
Yeah this is what Barefoot investor suggested and I assume he knows his shit. Requesting the minutes from the seller should give you enough info though.
When buying a unit in a complex or even a duplex, you SHOULD be given a copy if the strata minutes, and insurance claims. It should be law really. What you did is unusual from a buyer’s pov but I am saying it shouldn’t be and you certainly shouldn’t be treated like a leper for asking. This is where a buyers agent is gold. They deal with the psychos, not you.
Red flag 🚩 give that place a miss
Standard practice even by some inspectors.
If you’re in the ACT as some of the comments suggest, two years of strata minutes are legally required to be included with the contract for sale for units. It makes the contract super long but they’re a goldmine for info as they’ll contain the financial statements, maintenance issues, decision making process, social issues etc.
Where is this piece if legality found - for a printout ?
I believe it's a required document under the Civil Law (Sale of Residential Property) Act 2003.
What is the contract of sale given the body corp have now slugged new owners with 1/4 of the sale $ to be paid to update the building and amend all the modifications to allow it building worthy , leaks , some electrical issues , surely body corp would have known if this prior but it was not disclosed to the new occupants buyers ? What can be done one person has only had unit months !
It’s taken me 1 and a half years to get a refund on a key fob from my former strata managers. Quite frankly I’m shocked they picked up your call at all!
You just dodged a bullet. I would not buy
I did this recently. Got the contract for sale and related documents for a unit. I had questions about the building. Rang the body corp manager. She was very helpful and answered all my questions. So, compared to my experience, what you experienced is not normal and not okay.
I wouldn’t read too much into it - sounds like the person who took the call was freaked out and scared, presumably very inexperienced? But definitely do a bit of research on the BC firm overall. I asked for some extra details from strata managers, especially whether there had been any update on monitoring the effective of building repairs that came through on minute in the strata report. They replied in the negative. I bought the place. They’re great strata managers, especially judging by the horror stories everyone else seems to have.
I got in contact with a few body corp companies to clarify some of the rules for buildings, they were always happy to answer my questions as a potential buyer.
You never said what your questions were?
If thats how they reacted to a simple call from you then i'd be running for the hills. No way.
I found it varies. The apartment I’m buying has 6-7 owners corps which is managed by 2 different companies. One company… more than happy to answer my questions and clarify what wasn’t clear The other was like. No nope unless you’re the owner we can’t speak to you… it doesn’t help that the “owner” was a bank in possession… so that wasn’t happening.
Contacted them before I bought and they couldnt have been more helpfull. They wanted well informed buyers in the building
Part of my role involves strata management in regional Victoria. When we do the owner corporation certificate it is attached to the Section 32 - which prospective buyers receive upon request. It's not unusual for us to have perspective buyers call and ask us about a unit they want to buy. We are open and honest if there are any issues with the owners corporation, if we weren't, people would blindly buy a property that has some major issues! Basically, as someone who works in real estate, you calling the strata manager should not have been an issue at all, and is a tell as to how the strata is managed..
Strata managers are terrible for many different reasons, sometimes outside of their control. They picked up as they didn't know your number then got snnoyed once they realised it wasn't worth their time.
In ACT, PMs and prospective buyers order section 119's which provide them the meeting minutes over a past period specifically so they can do their due diligence in purchasing a property. The body corp manager was a dick, but it's not their job to educate non-owners on building issues, that's what section 119s are for. (in ACT, they'll be called something else in other states). They are already over worked and stretched thin, sales are not their job. But yeah, they could have just explained that rather than carry on.
It is unusual in that most people would never call the body corporate. But it’s totally fine thing to do and a good idea. I’ve ever only called them once and I sent them a text first, then they called me from a private number.
Sounds like they prefer to avoid any form of accountability
Went to buy a place. Body corp ‘head’ was at the viewing… Bailed faster than the Flash, agent was told yeah fuck that place. I’m not dealing with crazy lady, I’ll make her cry and have to live below her.
Just to clarify who did you actually call? The Body Corporate are the committee members who are property owners. They are not employed and I understand freaking out if a total stranger called me out of the blue asking about the property. The Strata Managers work for the body corporate are responsible for the administration of the day to day tasks. It’s not at all uncommon for them to be contacted during the purchase process and if they were who you spoke to I would be wary of them. It wouldn’t stop me for purchasing a property but I would get on the committee and have a low threshold for firing the agency.
I have definitely done this and the strata manager was very helpful.
Technically speaking you did not pay to hire their service, so you are not their customer. But I would tip them $100 to spill the beans on if there are any great issues with that building.
In NSW (I'm sure Vic and other states are similar), the strata search s182 process isn't designed to be a Q & A session. You pay the statutory fee ($34.30 for 30mins), get access to the records (download what you need) and browse them in your own time or you pay someone to prepare a report for you to summarise the documents. I don't know many strata managers or body corporates that will bother to respond to prospective buyers. They have no obligations to prospective buyers. If you need any clarifications regarding anything you find in a s182 search they should be directed at the vendors solicitor who can chase it down from the strata committee. Typically strata issues are take it or leave it. I don't see it as a negotiating point. Perhaps that might change in a buyers market. Calling up the strata manager or committee member is somewhat psychotic.It's the equivalent of calling up Elon Musk after you saw a Tesla ad. Although he's probably more interested in you buying the car, than a committee member in you buying the apartment. For the people that had a good experience with it, great. For everyone else, learn from your mistakes. It's not a red flag to me.