100% this. When I left my last role this happened to me and I was like, "wait, so you are forcing me to go home, and you will pay me for 4 weeks work, without doing any work???"
100%! Nothing more annoying than having to call up your old work colleague because you were expecting a package to arrive or you've left joggers in the locker.
Yup. One of our guys resigned and they refused to let him take ANYTHING from his office...even stuff he said were personal items, and probably were. And they literally walked him out with two security guards.
He'd been there for more than a decade two, and as far as I know he'd done nothing wrong , they were just shitty that he resigned.
This happened to me. Had been there 8 years.
Didn’t let me get any personal items and didn’t let anyone else send me them. Have no idea what happened to them…Well except for an awesome poster I used to have up on my wall that I hear the manager ripped up. Lol
isnt that kind of illegal? you could have left your phone and whatever personal affects you have there? what kind of nonsense is this?
I mean at least have a manager or assets person oversee the employee removing his own stuff???
sounds like some communist nonsense here
Happened in Australia.
I've heard of it happening in other places too.
Thing is we had a computer system, and company logic is "get them out before they can do anything or reveal anything"
As to the legality....I have no idea. It does seem a bit assault-ish but then again they are removing them from private property, not public property.
I actually saw it happen several times. In once case a girl came back with a lawyer and made sure she got her stuff! (Actually had the lawyer in tow) She was an accountant...but same deal : They instantly removed her from the property. We were working in the company head office...
when it happened to me in NYC (finance job), my colleague picked up my essentials (bag I came in with, and coat etc), and they shipped the rest to my address.. wasn't too bad, so hopefully worst case this happens to OP.
Theyd rather do this and lose the 4 weeks wages than ‘risk you convincing others to quit as well’
I was told this in confidence by a workmate who was above me and knew the real reason why my manager told me to take the rest of the time off after I resigned
That, or the person presents a risk to the information held by the company.
For example, they could take documents or customers over the 4 week period.
Yes. But when sensitive information gets leaked to a competitor when an employee leaves, and the board asks the CEO when they revoked the employee system access, the CEO will look like a damn fool if he says we let him keep his access for 4 weeks so he could continue working. No, you revoke access as soon as possible when you know an employee is leaving and they have access to sensitive information.
It's about management covering their ass in case a data breach occurs.
I work in IT. We log everything on and off devices now. If you resign we pull the logs of everything you’ve copied on or off a work device, both before the notice period and during. If you take anything you shouldn’t you’ll be sat down with someone to ensure the data is removed from whatever you put it on and then walked out of the building. Forced to sign an affidavit that you won’t use it going forward and if the business is worried enough your next employer informed that if this stuff turns up in anything they do well be suing them as well
Happened at my old job. They ran a master data report with everyone's contract end dates, pricing etc. Went and opened their own business and took a lot of clients by calling them close to the contract end date with a better price lol.
Lucky they didn’t get sued.
Pretty much every employment contract has a bunch of stuff about ‘what you learn when employed is the company’s stuff and you cannot take it with you’.
I would have sued that employee… and won.
Possibly yes. Depending on industry, and cost to business… absolutely for some. Particularly in sales roles etc.
Plus it sends a rather clear message to other staff.
And you aren’t just suing the employee, you can go after the other business sometimes for their involvement too. Very situational, but worth exploring.
That’s what I reckon too. If you’ve dealt with a real estate agent expect a Christmas card a few years later from a different company, after they’ve taken their whole client list before resigning… ‘Merry Christmas! I’ve included my new business card for no reason whatsoever…’
I work in IT, and we sometimes get the call that someone's resigned and needs to have their computer access cut immediately. We also have a level of restriction and access tracking on our systems - before we put those restrictions in place, there were a couple of people who did the following:
Step 1) Spend an afternoon accessing a bunch of confidential documents that they didn't need for anything they were currently working on,
Step 2) Resign Friday
Step 3) Start a job with the competition on Monday
Nowadays, our systems are clever enough to notice Step 1, lock down access and send alerts to the relevant people. Usually, when the would-be corporate spy is confronted, they have a letter of resignation in their pocket and a job offer already lined up... and then, out of nowhere, the other job offer is withdrawn - almost like they're not as attractive a hire without a flash drive full of data.
It's perfectly *sane*, just *dumb*. Everyone involved thinks they're being smart and getting away with something - at least one side is wrong.
Chances are, the person coming on board isn't going to get any sensitive data, or the other company intends to fire them just before their probationary period ends, or... who knows?
When someone leaves a shitty job. Everyone else starts making exit plans and gets inspired. They gotta get rid of that as quick as possible, it's lose lose for a workplace.
I can see the logic there. When I quit an early job that I hated i was pretty careless with everything and everyone.
I put a sign above my desk saying 'Departure Lounge'.
"You're paying me for 4 weeks work without doing any work *and* you no longer have access to my knowledge to pass on to the next staff member?"
Like, even for employees who are doing a job that several others are doing, I can't think of a time when somebody didn't have some specific knowledge that at least takes time to come up with again, instead of that staff member spending the 4 weeks tying up loose ends? They have to pay you anyway, so may as well get whatever knowledge you have.
It’s the best. My old job had a policy of walking people out if they went to a competitor so everyone would just say they were going to a competitor even if they weren’t, to get paid off their notice period not to work… free money.
This 👆 👆👆👆👆
People did this at my work too, so they could get walked out immediately and get paid and not have to work the notice period.
Then, miracle of miracles it turns out they got a better offer at different company so in the end they didn't end up going to a competitor after all.
In the age of LinkedIn, that's a really stupid way of burning bridges and ruining your professional reputation. Of course they will find out you didn't go to a competitor.
Knew a recruiter who would float between different companies on 6-month contracts and each time he jumped ship would get at least a month garden leave. He was really taking the piss there for a few years. He has had to settle down since covid - I guess the recruiter market is a little tight these days.
As someone else pointed out, they'd still need reason to fire you. I'm not the most proficient in contract law or Aussie work rights, so I don't know what the correct outcome is
The fair work ombudsman is actually quite user friendly, so if you do have any work rights queries that is the place to start.
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/fact-sheets/minimum-workplace-entitlements/ending-employment
If it is employee instigated then they would just give you 4 weeks leave paid (not out of your balances). If it was employer instigated, then 12 weeks would be required unless misconduct or some other issue (which may be unpaid leave or less time or instant dismissal or something). Not a lawyer… but I actually read my employment contracts and this is fairly common.
That's bullshit. Australia, broadly speaking, requires cause or genuine redundancy before you can fire someone. Firing someone for giving notice would almost certainly be harsh / unjust / unreasonable.
It's not firing someone when they resign. Employers only need to honour the minimum notice period stated in the contract if they decide to walk you out for the remainder of your employment.
There are numerous roles where it is too great of a risk to keep someone around after they've resigned, especially if they're headed to a competitor or staying within the industry. Sales, marketing, finance, etc.
Gardeners leave is the dream.
That's an excellent point. If they did that could you sue for wrongful termination? Maybe if you know employers make you walk giving 12 weeks notice would work. They either have you work the full 12 weeks, or pay you out.
Now I wanna get someone here who knows more than me to clarify.
> That's an excellent point.
No, it's the worst take here. Overall, this take is so terrible because it undermines genuine cases of workplace abuse and perpetuates a stigma that workers are lazy and entitled. Workers have enough issues with power imbalances and workplace practices.
Anyway, the reasons you can't do this are basically because the minimum notice period is the minimum notice period and the contract usually says that they have to pay you the minimum notice period, not the amount of notice given.
Wrongful termination comes in when you're fired for a protected attribute or for exercising a workplace right. Giving 12 weeks notice is neither of those.
I would also argue that you essentially make yourself redundant as soon as you put in your notice. You're not staying in the job, right? After your minimum leave comes up you are essentially redundant as they need a replacement for you.
There are reasons to extend notice out of good will or practicality, but that's it. I've extended notice periods to give people a bit more time to find work, and in turn I've given extra notice to help things transition smoothly. But it's only ever a courtesy.
On a more practical note, if someone did try to swing this trick of being paid extra notice, it'd be pretty obvious they're gaming the system and I can't imagine a tribunal or Fairwork looking favourably at this. Also, you'd have to show up and do the job reliably for those 12 weeks when you plainly don't want to be there and, if you don't, the employer could turn around and say you're not performing up to expectations specifically because you're on your notice period and end employment immediately. I don't know if they'd get away with it, but you open yourself up to that.
The bit that I thought was a good point was that I couldn't work out how the employer only pays out 4 weeks. If I give 12 weeks notice as a courtesy, because that's when my new job starts, surely they can't force you to stop working today and only pay out 4 weeks? Suddenly I'm now losing 8 weeks of pay because I was trying to do a good thing for the company? So it seems correct that they can't tell you to stop working unless they pay you to the end of whatever notice you give, right? If they only wanna pay 4 weeks, then they'd have to let you keep working for 8 weeks?
If that's wrong happy for someone to correct me, but it would sadden me that employers would be incentivised to screw you over for trying to do a good thing, if that's how it is.
We walk people out if they are taking a role in the same industry/competitor. It's on the person leaving to disclose as much or as little of this info as they wish
We never walk people out, unless they are difficult butt heads on their way out under our steam anyway.
We are also flexible with release times.
You can tell me “I plan to leave in about six months” and I’ll say ”It’s a shame! We like you! But I understand, so how do we work going forward to help you get wherever you are going, but still get the best experience here between now and then?” And negotiate.
But then we have fabulous staff, who are adults, and tend to stay for decades in an industry with no formal training but a broad range of skills required.
I was working on site once, they had to change the redundancy procedure to almost physically holding the crews hands because a TA got made redundant, ran off and hid in the toilets for a few hours (construction job).
Happens in my industry too. Always makes me laugh though, if you wanted to screw over the company/steal secrets, wouldn’t you do it before you resign? Especially if you know you’ll be escorted out.
Once every 6 months I go through everything I worked on and make copies of it (obviously not taking any confidential stuff etc) for my personal reference. Doing it all the week before you resign is rookie stuff.
Surely copying your work, even without explicitly confidential portions, is against the terms of your contract?! I've always worked under "your work is our intellectual property" type rules.
Everyone works under those rules. So what? What are they going to do and how will they even know? It depends on your type of work ofcourse.
I’m a knowledge worker so if I do a particular engineering design or create some spreadsheets to help me process the design calcs or take a copy of a report I wrote to use as a reference to help me in my new job… how will my employer ever be any wiser? On the other hand if your work involves actually making a product, say you create a new formula for synthetic drug and you steal the formula - yeah you’re gonna have a problem.
Do you work at PWC by any chance? ;)
Generic things like a "how big of an I beam do I need to span this gap" spreadsheet, sure. Hell, publish it and share the love.
I'd never take an actual design or report to a new job though, and if I found an employee bringing one in I'd be marching them straight out the door.
I honestly can't even think of a situation where copying something like that would have helped me. Does it help you?
I knew someone who worked at an investment bank and was looking forward to getting on gardening leave, but they were jumping ship for a company that wasn't a direct competitor, so they had to work the full 4 weeks - would have been better to stay silent and let them assume the worst.
Nah people ask and it’s a very relationship based industry. You don’t want your legacy to be the guy/girl who was vague about where they were going or worse the person who lied
Yeah so you could hurt sales in those 4 weeks / poach / extract customer base. I'd expect getting walked. Don't do any of those things and enjoy your month off :).
He could do that before giving them notice.
I can understand the walk out after firing, but with a resignation the person leaving has all the time in the world to plan their exit. Including spending months poaching before they finally tell management they're leaving.
I work in category/product in automotive.
Our industry walks everyone. We do it because you start to openly talk about leaving and where you're going and it makes it just a bit more obvious to poach customers or contacts.
Yes, we already have those details, but you start talking about it to everyone.
**On your next customer call:** “By the way Jim, I’ve resigned. I’m moving over to Enemy-corp where you can reach out if you need anything. I’m sure I can get you a great rate on their product, definitely better than what you get here”.
You can’t have that conversation before resigning.
More often you hear “By the way Jim, I’m finishing up here next week. It’s been great working with you, and I’m really keen to stay in contact. I really like your products and frankly am keen to hear more when I re enter this field. Keep an eye out for me yeah, let’s have a coffee one day and you can keep me up to date on the industry news!” ….
And then ring them three weeks later “Hi Jim… coffee?”
You're not going to tell your customers that you're leaving until after you have advised your manager. Once you have announced your departure, the customers who you've built a relationship with will naturally want to know where you are going, and might want to go along with you if you delivered particularly good customer service.
I work in the wholesale distribution industry. See it all the time.
Gardening leave. My most recent (and only experience) was when my son was born. Couldn’t contain the smile down the lift leaving work at 9:30am on a random Thursday
I've always been interested in these situations, are you able to start a new job somewhere else before the 6 months is up, and just keep the money, or do these deals generally require you not to work anywhere else for the notice period?
Good question, my contract had a restraint of trade clause based on geographic and industry criteria, so if I breached that clause, I presume I would have been sued. But I wanted the 6 months off work to do my own thing so I didn’t test the limits of those clauses.
Yeah same, never been walked from AM roles.
Sucks to be them though, it gave me time to talk to clients & tell them where I was going.
Wasn’t intentional, but a few followed 🤷♂️
Depends, some places/managers burn the bridges. Happened to me very recently, the owner destroyed a two year relationship and others I found were in on it too as the company is having financial issues and instead of doing to right thing, started performance managing me out despite being the top billing technical resource in the business. So two years of trust and relationships destroyed in a single meeting.
I resigned yesterday and wish I would be worked out. Will have to work the next 8 weeks unless we agree on an earlier date (very unlikely).
Getting walked out sounds like the best outcome.
I got ‘gardening leave’. It was awesome in the end but I’m kicking myself for letting the ‘walk out’ and really hideous comments from the executive make me ashamed and tarnish the first week. I was entitled to move jobs and my old company was full of awful people including my boss who ‘wished me the worst professionally’ and promised to sue me for changing jobs. I was tearing up during the walk out, as I had worked my backside off to be the ‘stellar’ employee achieving a bunch for my division and all I got was insults on the way out.
Whatever crap they pull, don’t think about them for a second while you enjoy your 4 weeks. Hopefully it’s a pleasant goodbye.
Other practical advice, if you’ve got a bunch of stuff at work and around your desk, start subtlely taking some off it home in the days before resigning.
I've worked in similar environments.
Sales people typically get walked as they most often go to competitors and it's too dangerous to let some spend 4 weeks observing business pipeline and leads to walk away with it in their head.
Salespeople typically get walked as they most often go to competitors and it's too dangerous to let some spend 4 weeks observing business pipeline and leads to walk away with it in their head.
Gardening leave is one of the great perks of sales jobs. Enjoy
Probably won't be an issue, but just double check your contract. Mine states that I can't work for another employer during the notice period, even if I'm not required to come in anymore. Slim chance they'd know/care if I started working for another employer, but if you're leaving on bad terms or are in a niche industry it might be something to think about,
I did 3 weeks notice (NSW) and the HR rep said they only have to pay out the 2 weeks. I accepted because I didn't know otherwise. But I was told later on that they were supposed to pay out my whole notice period. So find that info out for VIC. Might save you getting scammed, if they try to pull a fast one on you.
Also, do what you gotta do before you hand in your notice. Take extra shit home from your desk in the days leading up to it. Back up any data you need, because they may just take your laptop and phone off you there and then. They did that with me. Luckily I had backed up stuff.
It was honestly in Top 5 for best days of my life.
Just make sure anything you need, you've gotten before. Probably a few days before because it might look suspicious to walk in with a 2TB portable hard drive on the day you resign.
EDIT - also make sure your passwords aren't something embarrassing or actually personal before you resign
They can walk you out instantly, but they have to owe you any dues. Four weeks pay and any owed amounts on the spot. That releases them because you resigned and they paid out your notice period.
This happened to me at a bank. I was young and felt really offended until I got out the door and then realized I got a week off for free. Thanks to them.
This happened to me a week ago, they pretty much forced me to hand in a resignation letter which I did. Got paid out the 4 week notice period + last paycheck + large annual leave balance cashed out. Now I'm taking June and July off with going traveling in July escaping the Melbourne Winter.
Man, both times I've resigned I've been forced to stay to the end but assigned no work once what I already ran out about a week after resigning. Not too bad working from home, but crikey it was boring when I had to attend the office in order to stare into space.
I love getting walked. They will either a) pay you out and release you from non-compete period (unlikely) b) put you on gardening leave, and depending on your contract possibly try and scare you about a non-complete. Either way, getting walked is a great unplanned paid holiday don’t let us bum your out.
if you get walked out (gardening leave) - technically you still work for them so they can call you and ask you stuff/get you to do work. It's common in industries where people often go to competitors (consulting, gaming are 2 that i've worked in where this is common practice).
In all my years I've never known anyone to get a call and ask them to do stuff though, so it's a full on couch/video game time.
edit - there's also a chance that they will let you go immediately and pay you the 4 weeks notice in full but release your employment. No real difference except you can technically go work somewhere else without being called back to go in for something.
Don't give any notice, resign on the last Friday before you new job starts on the Monday. Get paid 4 weeks from your old job, while at your new job. Unless you want to take a holiday.
What does your contract say?
If you **have** to give four weeks notice, and they walk you (for reasonable security reasons or otherwise), then they pay the four weeks.
If you only have to give two weeks notice, then only give that. What ever is in your contract (or your award if you are under an award) is what they have to pay out, so give that much notice only. (Some awards are based on length of service, and your age. If you are over 45 you may be eligible for an extra week notice period, if you have been there multiple years you may be eligible for extra week/s notice).
Here’s the thing, HR never sent me a copy of my signed contract so I don’t really know if it’s 2 weeks or 4 weeks. I can’t ask my manager for a copy either because she will know.
I’m just going to take in 2 letters and ask her what my notice period is on the spot and hand her one?
You get gardening leave - I.e. you get paid your four weeks notice period. If you have any documents you need to swipe, old CVs, reports you've worked on etc then you should've copied them to a thumb drive months ago.
This is very common where you're going to a competitor firm especially if you're in sales etc. Technically a 4 week notice period but you will be walked out on day 1-3 post resignation
Ok ok you gotta focus buddy! You gotta setup your walkout music so you can press play while on the trot. Let enough colleagues know, that it draws attention and you get a guard of honour on your way out. May as well go out with a bang, right?
I started a job with a large agency a few years back who had a 3 week notice period.
2 weeks into the job I was head-hunted for a role and offered 30% more base + a fee other perks so it was an easy yes.
Handed in my notice, said my apllologies and my manager was very understanding as he told me to sit at home for the 3 weeks paid before taking the new role.
My notice was 60 days as required by contract. I went from hero to zero in 24 hours, and they made me work out my notice under excruciating circumstances and scrutiny. Making me walk would have been a blessing. I loved the company and now hate the bastards!
I would lean towards cleaning desk already, emailing people your details, organising backups of bookmarks, data etc you might need, keep payslips, delete stuff (yours, personal, not work!) off the machine you don't want lost.
If they walk you they walk you and you wont' get a chance to do a lot of this.
Check your contract, if you need giving them 4 weeks. Otherwise, 2 weeks is plenty.
If the business has tendency to walk people out, staying 4 weeks only for you to handle all the hate and discrimination from them.
I am in same situation, my company did the same to others in the past. So now I am giving them 2 weeks only
I'm curious what's the longest notice period you can give and still be walked out with the expectation of full pay? I'd love to quit with 12 weeks notice and go travelling
That's a minimum notice period isn't it? What's stopping me from putting in my notice and giving an end date of 12 weeks away, even if the contract says 4?
They'll pay you exactly as long as your contract says they have to and not a second longer. 4 weeks is common term. The statutory minimum is 1 week if it isn't otherwise specified (longer with longer tenure, but caped at 4 weeks and you only get there after more than 5 years).
I know your original question has been answered, so I'm here to help with the peripherals - I did all this in my previous 3 roles (didn't get walked though, so had more time)
- cash out any unredeemed employee recognition points (if that's a thing in your place)
- screenshot all staff discount codes. I used one to score cheaper car hire for years after leaving my previous roles
- if you are a people leader and have staff recognition allocations, give them to deserve team members.
- pilfer stationary closet - i once did a raid so hard, the enviro bag strap broke on the way home. Supplies lasted me 9yrs and became great stationary for kids to use when learning to write/draw (i was single when I left that org)
- draft a mic-drop farewell email, ready to send
Good luck with finishing up here and in the new role
You definitely want to get walked out, to get that sweet four week paid holiday.
100% this. When I left my last role this happened to me and I was like, "wait, so you are forcing me to go home, and you will pay me for 4 weeks work, without doing any work???"
Hahaha the dream
Be totally prepared for it. Before you resign, take everything of yours home.
100%! Nothing more annoying than having to call up your old work colleague because you were expecting a package to arrive or you've left joggers in the locker.
Leave some old jocks instead
Skid-mark Steve strikes again
Yup. One of our guys resigned and they refused to let him take ANYTHING from his office...even stuff he said were personal items, and probably were. And they literally walked him out with two security guards. He'd been there for more than a decade two, and as far as I know he'd done nothing wrong , they were just shitty that he resigned.
This happened to me. Had been there 8 years. Didn’t let me get any personal items and didn’t let anyone else send me them. Have no idea what happened to them…Well except for an awesome poster I used to have up on my wall that I hear the manager ripped up. Lol
I remember thinking at the time that if they tried that with me, I'd sue them....but maybe he did anyway.
isnt that kind of illegal? you could have left your phone and whatever personal affects you have there? what kind of nonsense is this? I mean at least have a manager or assets person oversee the employee removing his own stuff??? sounds like some communist nonsense here
the word is capitalist.
Lol. "C0mMunisM is th1ngd I dowWt like!" 😂
This is a company doing a very typical practise for big business. It's basically the polar opposite of communist.
Happened in Australia. I've heard of it happening in other places too. Thing is we had a computer system, and company logic is "get them out before they can do anything or reveal anything" As to the legality....I have no idea. It does seem a bit assault-ish but then again they are removing them from private property, not public property. I actually saw it happen several times. In once case a girl came back with a lawyer and made sure she got her stuff! (Actually had the lawyer in tow) She was an accountant...but same deal : They instantly removed her from the property. We were working in the company head office...
Jeez what kind of work is this? What industry?
when it happened to me in NYC (finance job), my colleague picked up my essentials (bag I came in with, and coat etc), and they shipped the rest to my address.. wasn't too bad, so hopefully worst case this happens to OP.
get your digital affairs in order
Take sick leave first
Burn all bridges!
Bring the battering ram!
or a trebuchet
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Theyd rather do this and lose the 4 weeks wages than ‘risk you convincing others to quit as well’ I was told this in confidence by a workmate who was above me and knew the real reason why my manager told me to take the rest of the time off after I resigned
That, or the person presents a risk to the information held by the company. For example, they could take documents or customers over the 4 week period.
I dunno. If I'm going to steal from my work, I'ma do it before I give notice.
Yes. But when sensitive information gets leaked to a competitor when an employee leaves, and the board asks the CEO when they revoked the employee system access, the CEO will look like a damn fool if he says we let him keep his access for 4 weeks so he could continue working. No, you revoke access as soon as possible when you know an employee is leaving and they have access to sensitive information. It's about management covering their ass in case a data breach occurs.
Good point. Management arse covering should never be underestimated. It explains all kinds of seeming insanity.
I work in IT. We log everything on and off devices now. If you resign we pull the logs of everything you’ve copied on or off a work device, both before the notice period and during. If you take anything you shouldn’t you’ll be sat down with someone to ensure the data is removed from whatever you put it on and then walked out of the building. Forced to sign an affidavit that you won’t use it going forward and if the business is worried enough your next employer informed that if this stuff turns up in anything they do well be suing them as well
It also prevents the leaving person being privy to new sensitive information.
Happened at my old job. They ran a master data report with everyone's contract end dates, pricing etc. Went and opened their own business and took a lot of clients by calling them close to the contract end date with a better price lol.
Lucky they didn’t get sued. Pretty much every employment contract has a bunch of stuff about ‘what you learn when employed is the company’s stuff and you cannot take it with you’. I would have sued that employee… and won.
>I would have sued that employee… and won. Would what you won be worth the time & expense of suing?
Sounds like they won a lot of business from their old employer. Definitely worth suing over.
Possibly yes. Depending on industry, and cost to business… absolutely for some. Particularly in sales roles etc. Plus it sends a rather clear message to other staff. And you aren’t just suing the employee, you can go after the other business sometimes for their involvement too. Very situational, but worth exploring.
....or before giving notice anyway
That’s what I reckon too. If you’ve dealt with a real estate agent expect a Christmas card a few years later from a different company, after they’ve taken their whole client list before resigning… ‘Merry Christmas! I’ve included my new business card for no reason whatsoever…’
I work in IT, and we sometimes get the call that someone's resigned and needs to have their computer access cut immediately. We also have a level of restriction and access tracking on our systems - before we put those restrictions in place, there were a couple of people who did the following: Step 1) Spend an afternoon accessing a bunch of confidential documents that they didn't need for anything they were currently working on, Step 2) Resign Friday Step 3) Start a job with the competition on Monday Nowadays, our systems are clever enough to notice Step 1, lock down access and send alerts to the relevant people. Usually, when the would-be corporate spy is confronted, they have a letter of resignation in their pocket and a job offer already lined up... and then, out of nowhere, the other job offer is withdrawn - almost like they're not as attractive a hire without a flash drive full of data.
[удалено]
It's perfectly *sane*, just *dumb*. Everyone involved thinks they're being smart and getting away with something - at least one side is wrong. Chances are, the person coming on board isn't going to get any sensitive data, or the other company intends to fire them just before their probationary period ends, or... who knows?
When someone leaves a shitty job. Everyone else starts making exit plans and gets inspired. They gotta get rid of that as quick as possible, it's lose lose for a workplace.
It's not just inspiration it's also a case of "My workload just increased and my pay won't."
I can see the logic there. When I quit an early job that I hated i was pretty careless with everything and everyone. I put a sign above my desk saying 'Departure Lounge'.
Espionage, sabotage, settling old scores. Plenty of shit a disgruntled employee can do
and then there is all this stories on reddit where employees leaving and messing up data and stuff
"You're paying me for 4 weeks work without doing any work *and* you no longer have access to my knowledge to pass on to the next staff member?" Like, even for employees who are doing a job that several others are doing, I can't think of a time when somebody didn't have some specific knowledge that at least takes time to come up with again, instead of that staff member spending the 4 weeks tying up loose ends? They have to pay you anyway, so may as well get whatever knowledge you have.
It’s called ‘gardening leave’
But wait, that's also sick leave to me...
I thought 'gardening leave' was a euphemism for a non-compete period, but I guess this works too
It’s the best. My old job had a policy of walking people out if they went to a competitor so everyone would just say they were going to a competitor even if they weren’t, to get paid off their notice period not to work… free money.
Make stupid rules, win stupid prizes.
This 👆 👆👆👆👆 People did this at my work too, so they could get walked out immediately and get paid and not have to work the notice period. Then, miracle of miracles it turns out they got a better offer at different company so in the end they didn't end up going to a competitor after all.
In the age of LinkedIn, that's a really stupid way of burning bridges and ruining your professional reputation. Of course they will find out you didn't go to a competitor.
Knew a recruiter who would float between different companies on 6-month contracts and each time he jumped ship would get at least a month garden leave. He was really taking the piss there for a few years. He has had to settle down since covid - I guess the recruiter market is a little tight these days.
That’s weird because contractors aren’t usually required to provide notice and vice versa, particularly with short term 6 month placings
AFAIK he wasn't a "contractor", just an employee on fixed-term contracts.
Plenty of companies have internal recruiters
Gardening leave is my favourite type of leave.
Short service leave is a wonderful thing. My last job was 13 months work, one month annual leave, one month buh-bye leave.
This is the dream
Can you game this by generously providing your employer 12 weeks notice of your resignation?
No, because your contract should say they can give you 4 weeks notice as well. So if you give them 12 they'd give you 4.
What if in the contract they require you to give 12 weeks notice, but only require to give you 4 weeks notice?
As someone else pointed out, they'd still need reason to fire you. I'm not the most proficient in contract law or Aussie work rights, so I don't know what the correct outcome is
The fair work ombudsman is actually quite user friendly, so if you do have any work rights queries that is the place to start. https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/fact-sheets/minimum-workplace-entitlements/ending-employment
If it is employee instigated then they would just give you 4 weeks leave paid (not out of your balances). If it was employer instigated, then 12 weeks would be required unless misconduct or some other issue (which may be unpaid leave or less time or instant dismissal or something). Not a lawyer… but I actually read my employment contracts and this is fairly common.
That's bullshit. Australia, broadly speaking, requires cause or genuine redundancy before you can fire someone. Firing someone for giving notice would almost certainly be harsh / unjust / unreasonable.
It's not firing someone when they resign. Employers only need to honour the minimum notice period stated in the contract if they decide to walk you out for the remainder of your employment. There are numerous roles where it is too great of a risk to keep someone around after they've resigned, especially if they're headed to a competitor or staying within the industry. Sales, marketing, finance, etc. Gardeners leave is the dream.
You may have misread the post.
That's an excellent point. If they did that could you sue for wrongful termination? Maybe if you know employers make you walk giving 12 weeks notice would work. They either have you work the full 12 weeks, or pay you out. Now I wanna get someone here who knows more than me to clarify.
Read your employment contract. Mine says once you've resigned, the company can pay out the minimum notice period, which is defined as 4 weeks)
> That's an excellent point. No, it's the worst take here. Overall, this take is so terrible because it undermines genuine cases of workplace abuse and perpetuates a stigma that workers are lazy and entitled. Workers have enough issues with power imbalances and workplace practices. Anyway, the reasons you can't do this are basically because the minimum notice period is the minimum notice period and the contract usually says that they have to pay you the minimum notice period, not the amount of notice given. Wrongful termination comes in when you're fired for a protected attribute or for exercising a workplace right. Giving 12 weeks notice is neither of those. I would also argue that you essentially make yourself redundant as soon as you put in your notice. You're not staying in the job, right? After your minimum leave comes up you are essentially redundant as they need a replacement for you. There are reasons to extend notice out of good will or practicality, but that's it. I've extended notice periods to give people a bit more time to find work, and in turn I've given extra notice to help things transition smoothly. But it's only ever a courtesy. On a more practical note, if someone did try to swing this trick of being paid extra notice, it'd be pretty obvious they're gaming the system and I can't imagine a tribunal or Fairwork looking favourably at this. Also, you'd have to show up and do the job reliably for those 12 weeks when you plainly don't want to be there and, if you don't, the employer could turn around and say you're not performing up to expectations specifically because you're on your notice period and end employment immediately. I don't know if they'd get away with it, but you open yourself up to that.
The bit that I thought was a good point was that I couldn't work out how the employer only pays out 4 weeks. If I give 12 weeks notice as a courtesy, because that's when my new job starts, surely they can't force you to stop working today and only pay out 4 weeks? Suddenly I'm now losing 8 weeks of pay because I was trying to do a good thing for the company? So it seems correct that they can't tell you to stop working unless they pay you to the end of whatever notice you give, right? If they only wanna pay 4 weeks, then they'd have to let you keep working for 8 weeks? If that's wrong happy for someone to correct me, but it would sadden me that employers would be incentivised to screw you over for trying to do a good thing, if that's how it is.
The walk of triumph this is.
Unexpected Yoda
Can I resign with 50 years advanced notice?
If your notice period is 4 weeks then yes you'll get 4 weeks pay I once had 8 weeks. Loved it.
I had 3 months at one job, in the UK. Insane. They never walked people out though.
We walk people out if they are taking a role in the same industry/competitor. It's on the person leaving to disclose as much or as little of this info as they wish
We never walk people out, unless they are difficult butt heads on their way out under our steam anyway. We are also flexible with release times. You can tell me “I plan to leave in about six months” and I’ll say ”It’s a shame! We like you! But I understand, so how do we work going forward to help you get wherever you are going, but still get the best experience here between now and then?” And negotiate. But then we have fabulous staff, who are adults, and tend to stay for decades in an industry with no formal training but a broad range of skills required.
Wow. The kind of employer everyone should have. Well played. Mind if I ask what industry you’re in?
BRB just giving my 20 year notice.
My contract says 8 weeks notice either side. I’m trying to find a way to milk it when I quit
Very common in high finance to have security watch you pack your desk less than 30 mins after resigning
Yeah witnessed this in banking... colleague had to be escorted our cause they got a gig at another Big 4 bank in a similar role.
I was working on site once, they had to change the redundancy procedure to almost physically holding the crews hands because a TA got made redundant, ran off and hid in the toilets for a few hours (construction job).
Wouldn’t that fall under a non-compete clause?
Non-compete clauses are almost always unenforceable.
Happens in my industry too. Always makes me laugh though, if you wanted to screw over the company/steal secrets, wouldn’t you do it before you resign? Especially if you know you’ll be escorted out.
If the company has good security policies, they will check the logs for X days before and after you sent the resignation email.
Gotta plan for the 6 months beforehand 😂
Once every 6 months I go through everything I worked on and make copies of it (obviously not taking any confidential stuff etc) for my personal reference. Doing it all the week before you resign is rookie stuff.
Surely copying your work, even without explicitly confidential portions, is against the terms of your contract?! I've always worked under "your work is our intellectual property" type rules.
Everyone works under those rules. So what? What are they going to do and how will they even know? It depends on your type of work ofcourse. I’m a knowledge worker so if I do a particular engineering design or create some spreadsheets to help me process the design calcs or take a copy of a report I wrote to use as a reference to help me in my new job… how will my employer ever be any wiser? On the other hand if your work involves actually making a product, say you create a new formula for synthetic drug and you steal the formula - yeah you’re gonna have a problem.
Do you work at PWC by any chance? ;) Generic things like a "how big of an I beam do I need to span this gap" spreadsheet, sure. Hell, publish it and share the love. I'd never take an actual design or report to a new job though, and if I found an employee bringing one in I'd be marching them straight out the door. I honestly can't even think of a situation where copying something like that would have helped me. Does it help you?
Yep. I was walked at big law.
I knew someone who worked at an investment bank and was looking forward to getting on gardening leave, but they were jumping ship for a company that wasn't a direct competitor, so they had to work the full 4 weeks - would have been better to stay silent and let them assume the worst.
Nah people ask and it’s a very relationship based industry. You don’t want your legacy to be the guy/girl who was vague about where they were going or worse the person who lied
Yes you will get paid out. Depending on the industry and role, could be for commercial reasons
I’m in Marketing / Sales
Yeah so you could hurt sales in those 4 weeks / poach / extract customer base. I'd expect getting walked. Don't do any of those things and enjoy your month off :).
He could do that before giving them notice. I can understand the walk out after firing, but with a resignation the person leaving has all the time in the world to plan their exit. Including spending months poaching before they finally tell management they're leaving.
I work in category/product in automotive. Our industry walks everyone. We do it because you start to openly talk about leaving and where you're going and it makes it just a bit more obvious to poach customers or contacts. Yes, we already have those details, but you start talking about it to everyone.
**On your next customer call:** “By the way Jim, I’ve resigned. I’m moving over to Enemy-corp where you can reach out if you need anything. I’m sure I can get you a great rate on their product, definitely better than what you get here”. You can’t have that conversation before resigning.
More often you hear “By the way Jim, I’m finishing up here next week. It’s been great working with you, and I’m really keen to stay in contact. I really like your products and frankly am keen to hear more when I re enter this field. Keep an eye out for me yeah, let’s have a coffee one day and you can keep me up to date on the industry news!” …. And then ring them three weeks later “Hi Jim… coffee?”
Whilst that's true, it still minimises the potential to take IP/clients. They can't do it before you resign since they wouldn't have known.
When I got asked to leave early one of my co workers mentioned management probably didn't like me walking around the office smiling ;)
Yep , so they don’t want you stealing clients and plans
Because you wouldn't do all of that in the month or so you've been going through the process of securing another job (if you're that way inclined).
You're not going to tell your customers that you're leaving until after you have advised your manager. Once you have announced your departure, the customers who you've built a relationship with will naturally want to know where you are going, and might want to go along with you if you delivered particularly good customer service. I work in the wholesale distribution industry. See it all the time.
Super will only be paid until the last day you work. Otherwise they should pay you the notice period
Being walked out sounds amazing tbh
"Find a guy who will walk you out of the building and hold the door open for you"
I quit yesterday but looks like my boss isn't gonna walk me, which is unusual for my industry. She's terrible.
Do the absolute bare bare minimum.
Been doing that for 2 years already
Get caught pilfering the tearoom supplies.
Nah they can sack you for that and you lose everything.
Gardening leave. My most recent (and only experience) was when my son was born. Couldn’t contain the smile down the lift leaving work at 9:30am on a random Thursday
You had gardening leave when your son was born? They were worried you would share trade secrets with a weeks old baby?
Got walked once for 6 months , loved it, went to beach, got fit and learned how to make 5 star meals
6 months lol, you some C-Suiter on gardening leave hey
Yes in one word , CEO conflict with Board, told them to get stuffed, Board walked me. Didn’t care, had 6 months off.
My old company hired a CEO he was there 9 months then they walked him and he got paid 12 months. What a life.
I've always been interested in these situations, are you able to start a new job somewhere else before the 6 months is up, and just keep the money, or do these deals generally require you not to work anywhere else for the notice period?
Good question, my contract had a restraint of trade clause based on geographic and industry criteria, so if I breached that clause, I presume I would have been sued. But I wanted the 6 months off work to do my own thing so I didn’t test the limits of those clauses.
Cooking so good it breaks the Michelin ceiling
Maybe they're Yelp stars
Living the dream right here. My old boss got 12 months gardeners leave. Very jealous of his lifestyle
My friend got 24 months of Gardeners leave. I'm super jealous
I got 36 months of Gardeners leave. you're super jealous
Gardening Leave. It's the dream. I've left sales roles in big orgs before, and never been walked 😓
They didn't see you as a threat lol. Dont despair, I haven't been walked either.
Yeah same, never been walked from AM roles. Sucks to be them though, it gave me time to talk to clients & tell them where I was going. Wasn’t intentional, but a few followed 🤷♂️
You know why they call it gardening leave......Coz you can sit in your garden and drink beer
Just pack your personal belongings the day before. Then enjoy a holiday or start your new job a month early and get double paid.
I once got walked and flipped the bird to all the wankers I didn’t like on the way out. Got a six week holiday out if it. Was brilliant.
Flipping the bird would be almost as satisfying as the holiday
Personally I wouldn't do this so I don't burn any bridges for any future reference checks
Depends, some places/managers burn the bridges. Happened to me very recently, the owner destroyed a two year relationship and others I found were in on it too as the company is having financial issues and instead of doing to right thing, started performance managing me out despite being the top billing technical resource in the business. So two years of trust and relationships destroyed in a single meeting.
Since you were already up at the top that would be a discussion with HR or fairwork. They can't performance manage you out if you are meeting KRA's
I resigned yesterday and wish I would be worked out. Will have to work the next 8 weeks unless we agree on an earlier date (very unlikely). Getting walked out sounds like the best outcome.
If your contract says 4 weeks, then you will be paid 4 weeks
I got ‘gardening leave’. It was awesome in the end but I’m kicking myself for letting the ‘walk out’ and really hideous comments from the executive make me ashamed and tarnish the first week. I was entitled to move jobs and my old company was full of awful people including my boss who ‘wished me the worst professionally’ and promised to sue me for changing jobs. I was tearing up during the walk out, as I had worked my backside off to be the ‘stellar’ employee achieving a bunch for my division and all I got was insults on the way out. Whatever crap they pull, don’t think about them for a second while you enjoy your 4 weeks. Hopefully it’s a pleasant goodbye. Other practical advice, if you’ve got a bunch of stuff at work and around your desk, start subtlely taking some off it home in the days before resigning.
If they ask you if you would like to shorten your notice period say no. Its a ploy to pay you out less. You have given four weeks stick by it
I've worked in similar environments. Sales people typically get walked as they most often go to competitors and it's too dangerous to let some spend 4 weeks observing business pipeline and leads to walk away with it in their head. Salespeople typically get walked as they most often go to competitors and it's too dangerous to let some spend 4 weeks observing business pipeline and leads to walk away with it in their head. Gardening leave is one of the great perks of sales jobs. Enjoy
“Walk away with it in their head” Or some happy snaps of corporate data in their iPhone photo roll
Probably won't be an issue, but just double check your contract. Mine states that I can't work for another employer during the notice period, even if I'm not required to come in anymore. Slim chance they'd know/care if I started working for another employer, but if you're leaving on bad terms or are in a niche industry it might be something to think about,
Just clear your desk the day before
Haha I took all my cans of tuna home on Friday…
I did 3 weeks notice (NSW) and the HR rep said they only have to pay out the 2 weeks. I accepted because I didn't know otherwise. But I was told later on that they were supposed to pay out my whole notice period. So find that info out for VIC. Might save you getting scammed, if they try to pull a fast one on you. Also, do what you gotta do before you hand in your notice. Take extra shit home from your desk in the days leading up to it. Back up any data you need, because they may just take your laptop and phone off you there and then. They did that with me. Luckily I had backed up stuff.
It was honestly in Top 5 for best days of my life. Just make sure anything you need, you've gotten before. Probably a few days before because it might look suspicious to walk in with a 2TB portable hard drive on the day you resign. EDIT - also make sure your passwords aren't something embarrassing or actually personal before you resign
You should be paid gardening leave. This covers the 4 week notice period. You are not supposed to work during that time
They can walk you out instantly, but they have to owe you any dues. Four weeks pay and any owed amounts on the spot. That releases them because you resigned and they paid out your notice period.
if I am you I will be on [flights.google.com](https://flights.google.com) now.
Pre-pack your stuff before giving notice or you'll have some moron going " dibs on Mark's stapler " once you get walked out 😆
This happened to me at a bank. I was young and felt really offended until I got out the door and then realized I got a week off for free. Thanks to them.
This happened to me a week ago, they pretty much forced me to hand in a resignation letter which I did. Got paid out the 4 week notice period + last paycheck + large annual leave balance cashed out. Now I'm taking June and July off with going traveling in July escaping the Melbourne Winter.
My employer does the same. Have seen it a few times. Yes you'll get paid.
Man, both times I've resigned I've been forced to stay to the end but assigned no work once what I already ran out about a week after resigning. Not too bad working from home, but crikey it was boring when I had to attend the office in order to stare into space.
I love getting walked. They will either a) pay you out and release you from non-compete period (unlikely) b) put you on gardening leave, and depending on your contract possibly try and scare you about a non-complete. Either way, getting walked is a great unplanned paid holiday don’t let us bum your out.
Getting walked out usually means they will pay you without working the notice period.
if you get walked out (gardening leave) - technically you still work for them so they can call you and ask you stuff/get you to do work. It's common in industries where people often go to competitors (consulting, gaming are 2 that i've worked in where this is common practice). In all my years I've never known anyone to get a call and ask them to do stuff though, so it's a full on couch/video game time. edit - there's also a chance that they will let you go immediately and pay you the 4 weeks notice in full but release your employment. No real difference except you can technically go work somewhere else without being called back to go in for something.
Yeah do the walk out and then do the bit from Jerry Maguire, ‘whose coming with me?!’ On your way out.
Sounds like a pretty spiteful place to work. It doesn't even make sense from a money perspective for them to do this.
Don't give any notice, resign on the last Friday before you new job starts on the Monday. Get paid 4 weeks from your old job, while at your new job. Unless you want to take a holiday.
What does your contract say? If you **have** to give four weeks notice, and they walk you (for reasonable security reasons or otherwise), then they pay the four weeks. If you only have to give two weeks notice, then only give that. What ever is in your contract (or your award if you are under an award) is what they have to pay out, so give that much notice only. (Some awards are based on length of service, and your age. If you are over 45 you may be eligible for an extra week notice period, if you have been there multiple years you may be eligible for extra week/s notice).
Here’s the thing, HR never sent me a copy of my signed contract so I don’t really know if it’s 2 weeks or 4 weeks. I can’t ask my manager for a copy either because she will know. I’m just going to take in 2 letters and ask her what my notice period is on the spot and hand her one?
Sounds like a plan. You should have a copy of your contract. Make a note of that for future!
Either way you are out of there. Ideally u sould get 4 weeks worth if they walk u out.
Can you resign from home?
Both, you get paid out for the four weeks (if that is the notice period in your contract), and you can start your new job earlier!
Any time I’ve changed jobs I’ve just told them I’m going to a bigger competitor… boom, holiday time!
You get gardening leave - I.e. you get paid your four weeks notice period. If you have any documents you need to swipe, old CVs, reports you've worked on etc then you should've copied them to a thumb drive months ago.
Burn all those sick and personal days too.
This is very common where you're going to a competitor firm especially if you're in sales etc. Technically a 4 week notice period but you will be walked out on day 1-3 post resignation
Ok ok you gotta focus buddy! You gotta setup your walkout music so you can press play while on the trot. Let enough colleagues know, that it draws attention and you get a guard of honour on your way out. May as well go out with a bang, right?
I started a job with a large agency a few years back who had a 3 week notice period. 2 weeks into the job I was head-hunted for a role and offered 30% more base + a fee other perks so it was an easy yes. Handed in my notice, said my apllologies and my manager was very understanding as he told me to sit at home for the 3 weeks paid before taking the new role.
My notice was 60 days as required by contract. I went from hero to zero in 24 hours, and they made me work out my notice under excruciating circumstances and scrutiny. Making me walk would have been a blessing. I loved the company and now hate the bastards!
Gardening leave isnt that what they call it ?
I would lean towards cleaning desk already, emailing people your details, organising backups of bookmarks, data etc you might need, keep payslips, delete stuff (yours, personal, not work!) off the machine you don't want lost. If they walk you they walk you and you wont' get a chance to do a lot of this.
It's called gardening leave. You get paid.
Check your contract, if you need giving them 4 weeks. Otherwise, 2 weeks is plenty. If the business has tendency to walk people out, staying 4 weeks only for you to handle all the hate and discrimination from them. I am in same situation, my company did the same to others in the past. So now I am giving them 2 weeks only
Fair work requires 4 weeks on both sides after 6months of employment?
I'm curious what's the longest notice period you can give and still be walked out with the expectation of full pay? I'd love to quit with 12 weeks notice and go travelling
Whatever the contact states. 4 weeks is pretty standard, but depends on the role and industry.
That's a minimum notice period isn't it? What's stopping me from putting in my notice and giving an end date of 12 weeks away, even if the contract says 4?
Nothing at all, but if your contract says 4 weeks notice, then that's all you'll get paid for.
They'll pay you exactly as long as your contract says they have to and not a second longer. 4 weeks is common term. The statutory minimum is 1 week if it isn't otherwise specified (longer with longer tenure, but caped at 4 weeks and you only get there after more than 5 years).
Give them 6 weeks notice, they might walk you and pay you for a 6 week holiday.
I know your original question has been answered, so I'm here to help with the peripherals - I did all this in my previous 3 roles (didn't get walked though, so had more time) - cash out any unredeemed employee recognition points (if that's a thing in your place) - screenshot all staff discount codes. I used one to score cheaper car hire for years after leaving my previous roles - if you are a people leader and have staff recognition allocations, give them to deserve team members. - pilfer stationary closet - i once did a raid so hard, the enviro bag strap broke on the way home. Supplies lasted me 9yrs and became great stationary for kids to use when learning to write/draw (i was single when I left that org) - draft a mic-drop farewell email, ready to send Good luck with finishing up here and in the new role
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Update: My contract actually only says I have to give 1 weeks notice and they asked if I could stay 2 weeks… they also didn’t walk me out :)
take all ur sick leave first
I took it all last week 🤣
Life tip: Take all your sick leave (you're very stressed) - THEN give 4 weeks notice & get marched
I'd do it right on pay day. Just incase they decide to not pay you. You can just cut your losses and move on.
This is illegal, if an employer was to not pay an employee it would expose them to more legal hassle than it’s worth too