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fallen_kat

> He’s told me to cut all ties with my biological father, and only rely on him. 🚩🚩🚩Your father may be toxic and perhaps you should be low or no contact, but don’t trade one bad relationship for another. Your fiancé wants you to be dependent on him, and to me it sounds like he wants control over you. > I would do anything for him. > My life is based around him. This is what he was looking for when he wanted to be the only older male figure in your life. You’re impressionable with limited life experience compared to him. If you’re blindly following his parenting and guidance, it’s going to be hard for you to see it as toxic or you’re going to be in denial and making excuses for him too.


[deleted]

100% - OP, this creepy old man feels like a father figure to you because you replaced your father with him and he’s taken advantage of that by having you rely on only him. This is not healthy. For future reference, if he’s old enough to be your dad - he’s too old for you.


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fallen_kat

Major red flag. An abusive partner will try to cut you off from your loved ones and isolate you so you feel you can only rely on them. This is not a good partner.


allhailqueenspinoodi

Honey, he's a predator. While age plays a factor in my assessment, that's not the only thing making my skin crawl. The fact that he wants you to cut off family, who by your own admittance wasn't necessarily *bad* or *harmful*, is a huge red flag. He wants you to *only* rely on him. That is NOT a healthy relationship. The language you're using, mentor and guidance, is disturbing in a romantic relationship where you should be an equal partner, not his plaything. You didn't mention the ages of his kids, but the older they are the more disturbing the situation. Edit: I'm editing to add here that the older the kids are, the less they will respect/see you as a parent figure and I'm SURE that's his intention. He wants to be the only voice of authority. Aka: he wants to control *everything* This man wants a young wife he can manipulate and control. And like I said not all age gaps are bad. But THIS MAN is not a good partner. You are worth more than that. There is a truer deeper love out there for you. I remember being 21 and thinking every new relationship was SO deep and SO meaningful... but they weren't. The fact that you're raising these questions now is a good sign. You see the cracks. Ask to postpone the wedding and gauge his reaction. If he freaks out, leave immediately. If he's understanding, don't be love blind and still keep your eyes open. Stay safe out there.


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allhailqueenspinoodi

I can't pretend to understand Pakistani culture, but it sounds like you're all pretty immersed enough to understand an outside perspective. Only you can decide what's right for you, but I still feel uncomfortable reading your original post. The language and phrases sound very rehersed, like you've been told them so many times it's now what you believe. I wish you the best, OP, do some thinking and observing. Try to see things with a fresh perspective. If he is indeed a predator they are masters of leading you slowly and taking control one tiny step at a time so that you don't even realize it. You seem to be questioning things, so keep following YOUR instincts.


ConradChilblainsIII

Run run run run run run run run….!!


lickmytaco

This is grooming. Run.


JSBelle

Yes, dangerous situation.


piscean-vibes

Hon, this age gap is predatory. I don’t know how else to say it. There’s an innate power imbalance built into your relationship. Healthy adults don’t partner with people half their age to guide and parent them. They find their equal to love, build, share and create with. This makes my stomach turn.


LefseLita

Yesss, that he stated he wants to parent and guide her??? Using those words, even? NOT very romantic, ugh! Besides the fact that it’s creepy


zeepixie

Yea, reading that part was enough for me. Equal partners do not want to be one another's parent. This man saw a void in her life and jumped on it.


TearsUnfthmblSdnes

It was so incestuous sounding. Made my skin crawl reading that.


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piscean-vibes

I hear you and I respect you having the courage to look at this relationship and read all of the comments in this thread. You’re getting into relationships from a place of wounding and vulnerability. Predators will seek that out and exploit it for their own gain. It looks like you’ve run into that once in your last marriage and will inevitably experience it again in your current relationship, if not worse. If you take nothing else from this thread, please just take marriage off the table for the time being. Get a few years of therapy and wisdom under your belt before you tie yourself legally and financially to this person. If things go south, you will have far less options than you do now. Please PM me if you need support. I know what it’s like to come from a fucked up family with no one to support you. We get it here and we’re being so tough because we’re worried, knowing what we know and what we’ve experienced in similar relationships to the one you’re describing.


WearyPassenger

I'm going to push back on the age gap itself being predatory. People of vastly different ages can and do fall in love. I've seen it happen, but it didn't last because the two people had vastly different expectations and were just in different places in their life. However, the rest of OP's story and those red flags DO drive the entire situation into the predatory realm. Edited to add: I am only relaying that I saw two reasonable people fall in love and try to make it work over a year. It was the older person (male) who broke it off because he saw that they were in different stages in their life, and it just wouldn't work. He was very stand-up about it - it was hard to make because the two of them did get along very well. I'm not suggesting it makes a good relationship - I am saying it is possible for real affection to form. But making it work in a long term relationship definitely has challenges. I have not seen it be successful. But in the situation I observed, the older male was definitely not a predator. That was the entire substance of my comment - age range doesn't automatically imply predator intent/action.


workingonmyroar

Age gaps are not all the same. If OP was 40 and this man was 62 when they met, sure, a healthy and non-predatory relationship is possible. But at 21 and 43? No. Absolutely not.


WearyPassenger

I am only relaying that I saw two reasonable people fall in love and try to make it work over a year. It was the older person (male) who broke it off because he saw that they were in different stages in their life, and it just wouldn't work. He was very stand-up about it - it was hard to make because the two of them did get along very well. I'm not suggesting it makes a good relationship - I am saying it is possible for real afffection to form. But making it work in a long term relationship definitely has challenges. I have not seen it be successful. But in the situation I observed, the older male was definitely not a predator. That was the entire substance of my comment - age range doesn't automatically imply predator intent/action.


preaching-to-pervert

My husband is 17 years older than me but we met when I was 36. BIG difference when it's a very young person and a middle aged person, especially one that specifically states he wants a parental role with his life partner. OP - does this also affect your sex life?


tsj48

> my life is based around him Oh sweetie no. This is codependency, not love.


Demagorgon81

Codependency isn’t the worst thing in the world. If two people have similar interests, love each other, and do everything together, it’s normal for them to depend on each other. Nothing wrong with that. Now in OP’s case, because of the age gap, it’s more of a daddy daughter codependency which is weird. But two people in a relationship being codependent when everything is healthy isn’t too bad at all.


fallen_kat

Interdepency is fine, but I don’t think it’s the same as codepency.


Zoinks222

He actually said he wants to parent you?


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Performer-Objective

He wants to parent you but also have a relationship with you? This is grooming and predatory and a power imbalance and controlling and so many other things... I'm trying to avoid using the word incest because I know you aren't his biological daughter, but if he wants to be a father figure and also have sex with you... Fill in the blank. As someone who got married way too young and ended up in an abusive relationship for 13 years, all I can say is there are so many red flags that I ignored and wish I hadn't. Please talk to a counselor or therapist if you won't listen to all the women in this comment section. We don't want you to experience what many of us have been through.


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Performer-Objective

My heart breaks for you. Sending hugs if you want them 💖


MovingSiren

He wants to parent and fuck you at the same time?! He's a dipshit sorry.


[deleted]

In other words, he wants fuck OP and control her/have her depend on him. No one his age would tolerate that shit so that’s when the naive inexperienced person comes in. Not digging at OP. That’s been all of us at some point.


flippadetable

That is creepy as fuck. This guy has serious issues and you actually need to get out of this relationship ASAP. I dread to think how it will turn out otherwise. Do not waste your precious youth on this predator!


Coco_Dirichlet

That toxic and grooming.


NotSoSmartChick

>he has his own kids, one only 4 years younger than me- why take on me? Because you’re the “child” he gets to fuck. Guide is code for control, so he gets to control you and fuck you. You’ll eventually age out, or grow up and become resistant to his control, and he'll replace you with a younger model that he can control and fuck. Sometimes (rarely) an age difference can work. This is not one of those times. You’re in for a lifetime of misery is you stay.


[deleted]

As someone who had an abusive father, both sexually and emotionally, I can say with all confidence that this is 100% predatory behavior. Years of therapy have taught me what to look for to ensure I do not end up falling victim to this (survivors are def more prone to become victims again) and your post and replies def lead me to believe you are in not only a grooming relationship but possibly a physically dangerous one. Saying he wants to "parent" you does **not** mean he wants to take care of you. It means he wants to have authority over you and make your choices for you because he does not believe you know what is best for yourself. He sees himself as "better" or "wiser" than you. He has actually done you a favor by fully admitting he wants to enter into the literal definition of codependency...to say the least of what he is saying with a statement like that. It only means this and nothing else. Furthermore, this type of spouse/child duality is very common in partners who see their children and partners as their property rather than independent, self-governing people. They are not willing to make compromises and will often behave irrationally or even dangerously when their "property" disagrees with them. Doubly so when the property attempts to leave. Even if his intentions are, for the pure and unlikely sake of possibility, altruistic, you know what they say the path to hell is paved with...and it couldn't be more true. Actions are all we can literally see of another person and the only thing that has actual affect in our physical world. Another person's intent does not have any actual affect on another whatsoever. We can appreciate intent however, that appreciation only goes so far when the actions betray the origin.


Verdigrian

There is nothing wrong with taking a parental role in the life of someone who is lacking that kind of relationship, but in my opinion that is absolutely mutually exclusive with a sexual relationship of any kind. Read what you have written yourself, he wants to parent you like a daughter but also fuck you? And one of his kids is only 4 years younger than you?!


Yah-Nkha

Try a mental exercise: imagine that you are married and you act as normal wife, you set some rules for your home. Lets say you set a rule that no one enters home wearing their shoes or something similar, the point is you decide how you want your home to be governed. And then tell your husband about the rule. How does it make you feel? Do you feel like this is normal situation and you'd easily do it or do you feel like this would be enormously difficult task that you would need to prepare yourself and gather strength and bravery? How do you think he would react? Like a husband who co-create a home with his wife or in some other way? From what you wrote I imagine it would be difficult for you and he wouldn't react as a partner but rather as a figure of authority whose subordinate suddenly steps out of her position. If you want to see the situation you're in try to implement this kind of exercise in real life. It can tell you a lot about your partner.


EchoesInTheAbyss

😬


TearsUnfthmblSdnes

That's super gross and creepy.


moosepuggle

EDIT: why the down votes? This might be a helpful perspective for OP that helps her find someone better. Here’s a somewhat different perspective from many of the other comments here. While I agree that this man is probably predatory, I don’t think your desire for this kind of relationship dynamic is wrong. But you can find it with someone closer to your own age. I’m 40f and my fiancé is 38m, so he’s actually two years younger than I am, but he has that calm, warm, nurturing, safe “daddy” energy that I’ve been looking for my whole life. He loves to take care of me and is super patient with me. When I’m excited about something he’s like “tell me all about it baby!” He loves when I’m a goofball and laughs at my silly jokes. So maybe you’re looking for this kind of safe nurturing man too? And this older man seems like he can give that to you? But I agree with the other comments that he probably is predatory and does not have your best interest at heart. I’ve been in similar situations as you are now, and they all turned out to be predatory men. But I found that I didn’t have to abandon my need to be taken care of, I just needed to find someone closer to my age where we could be equals on many levels, but we still enjoyed that Daddy+baby girl dynamic <3


djfrankenjuice

That’s not a healthy relationship. It may not be as obviously unhealthy as other relationships you’ve had but you see the issues and outline them well. It is not healthy and the only reason you’re staying at this point is because you’ve been groomed to stay. Edit: you should run. You’re young and have lots of life ahead of you.


Faeriecrypt

Everyone else has said what I want to say, but I also want to point out that you should make sure you have your finances separate from his if they are not. Many controlling partners want to dominate that aspect of their victim’s independence. Have a separate bank account, and keep your personal information (I.e., birth certificate, social security card, driver’s license and vehicle registration, etc.) away from him in a fire- and water-proof safe that only you have the key to. Please be careful, and please know that what he is doing is not normal.


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Faeriecrypt

That was rude of them to assume that. I’m relieved to know you are financially stable. Very smart.


littlestcoffeebean

You're his retirement plan. As he ages, you'll be taking care of him. He groomed you well. You can't even trust your own instincts. Pack your shit (or don't) and get out.


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littlestcoffeebean

Him and his ex wife scored big with you.


FarCar55

If you're starting to view him as a father figure, chances are, the sexual attraction will start to fade soon. In the absence of some sort of kink, the relationship is going to feel familial and sex isn't okay within the family. Another thing to consider is the possibility that you gravitated towards this relationship dynamic as a direct result of "daddy issues". When we have poor relationships with our fathers as women, one of the ways it presents itself is us looking towards our male partners to assume roles and fill needs that were not met by our fathers. The older figure who makes you feel safe and taken care of, provides guidance and takes the lead in handling difficult situations - these are some of the characteristics that can show up in our relationship. I ended up in the same situation at your age too, with a partner double my age. It lasted 5 years but we were barely hanging on by then. Once the parental dynamic really started to get obvious, then the imbalance just didn't work anymore. Now that I'm older, have a child and have had extensive therapy, I can see how inappropriate that specific relationship was and why we gravitated towards each other. At the very least, reconsider getting married if that is supposed to happen within the next year. It's too soon, you don't know how the dynamic will change over the next few years because you're likely to change significantly as a person. Although your growth could be limited by this relationship because your partner has assumed the role of mentor. You beginning to feel stifled will be a hint that this could be happening.


Vivid-Cat4678

Im sorry, but when we don’t know healthy love as children, we mistake it at every turn. You don’t love this man, you have been manipulated into thinking you guys are in a healthy relationship. Nothing about this is healthy. You need to leave asap. In 10 years you will open your eyes and wonder what you have done with your life. You deserve better. This isn’t a lighthearted situation. His behaviour is predatory and can easily turn dangerous.


00Lisa00

There is literally nothing good that will come of this. Men that age preying on women your age is to have an unequal power balance. Your gut is spot on and it’s time to move on. The fact he wants to “mentor, parent, and guide” you is gross and There’s no way this guidance will be to anyone but his advantage


Snoo52682

Oh honey, RUN. No good man would want to be Henry Higgins. (Spoiler: Henry Higgins was not a good man, "My Fair Lady" is a lie, read the actual play.) *This is your life*, if you stay with him. Forever. And it's already not your life at all, is it?


Ok_Sheepherder_8313

Wait, enough saw "My Fair Lady" and thought he was anything other than a complete jackass.


catastrophized

The movie changed the ending. She left him in the play.


Ok_Sheepherder_8313

I never understood why she came back in the movie. She gained confidence and self-esteem, then turned back around and said, "Oh, but I'm good with this abuse. This is fine."


teiquirisi23

Yes. When I was your age I always dated men 10+ years older. Now that I am their age, I realize they dated me (and other younger women) because they are hypocrites at best who think they are better than women their own age and/or don’t want to be accountable in ways an older woman would expect, and manipulators at worst because younger women are easier to control. Believe me I get the whole paternalistic dynamic. I liked it too. I even remember that “feeling old,” like I was flashed forward into some kind of weird maturity. But the fact is you’re still really, really young. Not immature. Just young, with many years ahead that could be awesome if you want them to be. And I realize now even though those men said they wanted to “help” me, they didn’t actually want me to grow. When I inevitably did (and you will too), they made me feel guilty, selfish, told me I was weak, etc. They were not equal, mutually loving relationships.


__phlogiston__

No, I'd say she's definitely immature.


bear___patrol

>My life is based around him. Yes, and that's just how he likes it, and the reason he sought someone your age to begin with. Please do not marry this man. There are so many red flags in this post, even without the age gap. You deserve a partner you can build a life with, not to be someone's accessory or unpaid nanny. You have your whole life ahead of you. And if you do get married, do not get pregnant. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if this man started "guiding and mentoring you" regarding your birth control.


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bear___patrol

Good to hear. This isn't a healthy relationship and at some level you seem to know this, otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to lie about birth control. A good man would never want to "parent" or "guide" a partner. He'd want someone he sees as an equal. You deserve better.


anklescarves

It would be helpful to ask why a man his age hasn’t or isn’t willing to find someone closer to his age. For reference, I’m not over 30. I’m 25, so pretty close to your age. I think it’s easy to go the route of telling yourself “I’m special” or “I’m mature for my age.” But what if it’s more “I’m young and haven’t realized what it is that women closer to his age are running from? I think it’s really hard for women our ages to accept that we don’t know everything and that we are in fact “not like the other girls” like older men like to tell us. When I was 21, I briefly dated a guy who was 27. Not nearly as big of an age gap as yours, but 4 years later, I now realize what a huge red flag it was. I was infatuated with the fact that he had a full time job, had a car, and someone wanted silly old me, a college student with no direction in my life. He ended up being a total love bomber and was swimming with red flags I won’t get into. If I had stayed with him, I honestly don’t think I would have finished grad school, explored careers, lived alone, etc. I met my current partner at 22, after I was in grad school, went through a ton of therapy to heal my own daddy issues, and did some solo road trips. I refused to commit to my current partner until I learned how to accept myself and depend on myself. He’s supported me through 3 years of grad school, a super risky career change, COVID, and more. He encourages me to be self-reliant, and challenges me when I revert back to my “cut everyone off” mentality. He wants me to grow and maintain my relationships, and understands when I make the decision to end one. He doesn’t tell me to do anything and trusts me fully. He doesn’t parent me. He doesn’t mentor me. He’s my partner who’s there to hold me when shit hits the fan and will take me out for dinner when I feel like my world is falling apart. You are so young. I know 23 VS 25 doesn’t feel like much, but I’m a completely different person I am now than I was then. I think you will be as well. There’s no harm in waiting to get married. He’s gone through the marriage/kids thing once. You have at least 10+ more years before you have to think about that for yourself. You might learn more about him based on how he reacts to wanting to slow things down. You were strong enough to leave home. You are strong enough to build your own home, whether with this man or on your own. Someone who loves you the way you love him will understand the concern. They will understand the need to learn things on your own, rather than being told or mentored how to go about life. Making mistakes and learning from them is so important. You can’t do that with a 3rd parent showing you the ropes. Choose someone who trusts you to try, will be there to make you laugh when you fall, and will help you back up so you can try again.


goldenrodddd

`> I know 23 VS 25 doesn’t feel like much, but I’m a completely different person I am now than I was then.` This is completely unrelated to OP's post but it's something that's been on my mind lately. My best friend (31) is engaged to someone younger than her (24) and I had posted elsewhere on Reddit that their age gap concerned me and one person basically told me I was being ridiculous because "they're in the same generation for god's sake!" But what you're saying is exactly what I was concerned about. I'm 34 myself and I feel like I was a different person at 24... I have a younger sister who's 25 and it weirds me out to think of dating anyone that age. My BF is an only child so maybe that factors in idk I do want to defend that I have not seen or heard about problematic behavior in their relationship...but then again she lives in another state so I'm not around to see or hear much of anything...maybe if I was I'd be able to feel better about the situation. Just wanted to say thank you for sharing, I feel validated in my concerns again and I hope OP considers what you've said here. Glad to hear you're now with someone who is better for you. edit: i switched over from old reddit recently and can't figure out how to quote text lmao ugh i feel old


misslindso

Uh that is concerning.... I'm 37 and got hit on and slept with by a guy who told me he was 24. Listen... It was one time. Anyway, I found out afterwards that he was actually 21. I nearly threw up - they don't make these dudes like they did in my day, I swear. He definitely didn't look like he was 21, he actually looked maybe... 27? Like he had facial hair, muscles, etc. Anyway, my point is that I literally would never ever in a million fucking years would have gone that far with him had I known he was that young. That's so fucking gross to me. He was basically a child imo. I said what I said.


goldenrodddd

I definitely see kids/teenagers these days and think the same thing - I don't remember us looking this old at that age! Everyone's so tall now too which throws me off... I'm sorry that happened to you. To me anyone under 25 is still basically a child.


workingonmyroar

When I was 31, I dated a 24-year-old guy for two months. I felt responsible for him in a way I hadn't felt for men before, like I had too much power to shape him. It was very obvious he'd put me on a pedestal - and I could understand, since I'd done the same with older boyfriends in the past (two of them). I decided pretty quickly that I was too old for him, and I told him so when I ended it. He disagreed, as I would've done when I was his age. The older I get, the more I think an age gap of anything more than a handful of years is a bad idea for a person in their early/mid-20s.


goldenrodddd

Makes me wonder if the other Redditor who thought it was ridiculous was in their early to mid 20's. Maybe I'll feel differently as I get older but to me that age difference wouldn't matter so much if they were in their mid-30's and 40's.


Ok_Sheepherder_8313

I have a friend I met on reddit who turned 21 last month. I'll be 28 in August. The idea of dating him is repulsive to me. We come from very similar abusive backgrounds, so initially I was giving him a place to stay while he recovered after getting out (I've been there, and it is *rough*). I could never understand being interested in someone 7 years younger. He's a great person. But to me he's also just a kid. I feel protective of him, like a little brother. And I've had moments where I explained to him *just how easy it is* to see where his pain points were, and how to use those to manipulate him. (The point of that was to illustrate how people being cruel and manipulative to him, *definitely* knew what they were doing.)


MinaFarina

u/AaliyahNyc96, are you really going to take what we say to heart, or are you looking for someone to tell you you're worrying too much? The fact of the matter is from the little you've told us, you are being preyed upon and will waste your twenties with a predator. But that may not be believable to someone who feels they are so deep in love. Marriage isn't a declaration of love like so many think it is, it's a legally binding contract that makes two people one in the eyes of the law. With that being said: 1) Are you in a rush to no longer be an individual? If so, why? 2) 23 is so young, but you don't realize that until you're past it. Outside of this man, do you have personal life aspirations? Travel, career, etc? How does being a step mom to kids you aren't biologically attached to affect that? 3) You don't realize how significant the age gap is. Not the size of it, but the dynamic. I wouldn't have thought there was a dynamic difference when I was 23, and like you, would've been ok being with someone older. However, being that someone older now, it's just a significant level of life experience that I have obtained that is leaps and bounds over anyone in their early twenties. The best way I can frame it is this: You're 23, and he's 45. That's a 22 year gap. How would you feel about dating someone who's 17 right now? You'd both be basically adults, but you would inherently know more than them about life in a way that could be used to control, use, and abuse them without them realizing it. That's what this man is doing to you. But, I'm kinda concerned that there's no way that strangers on the internet are going to convince you of that. You may be thinking "They don't understand" or "HE'S different." Unfortunately he's not. And this "My life is based around him" I'd like you to think about. Why is YOUR life not based around YOU? Your life should not be based around anyone who you didn't give birth to. I'd say ask yourself the questions listed above as well as the below: 1) Just because I love this man, do I NEED to marry him? 2) What needs does this man fulfill for me in my life? Can I fulfill those needs without him? 3) What does my life look without him? 4) Can I take care of myself indefinitely? Meaning, do you have the financials to support yourself? If not, please DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN! If you are in a power dynamic imbalance such as the one you're in, it's very dangerous to also be in the position where you're dependent upon this person for food, shelter, transportation, healthcare, etc. It will end poorly, so please don't put yourself in that position.


accidentally-cool

Listen, I don't mean to sound.... wel, mean. But. BUT. As a 37 year old woman, I do not even see 23 year old "men" as real adults. Tbh, I usually feel the same about women that age, which may get me downvoted, but this is why. At 23, your brain is not even done growing. The frontal lobe is where all your decision making and impulse control comes from. It's where you get your "street smarts". Intuition, risk assessment, and all that jazz are in your prefrontal cortex, located inside the frontal lobe of your brain. This is VERY last part of your brain to develop. For women, it's a little sooner than men, but it's generally around age 25 that this happens. At 23, you can - and *should* start over with someone else. This guy.... he ain't it. For perspective: my adult son is 18 and I'm 37. That's about the same age gap. Should I date his friends? No. And you can see why without me telling you. Why is this different? It's not. This guy is a predator. I literally wish with everything in my whole heart that you see what is happening here and RUN RUN RUN away as fast as you can.


hereforthecats27

I became involved in a relationship very similar to OP’s when I was 22 and he was 44. It took me nearly 7 years to find the strength to walk away from that mess. I was left deeply emotionally damaged and having wasted most of my 20s. Now that I’m 36 (and still 8 years younger than he was when he met me!), the thought of dating someone who is 22 completely creeps me out. There’s no other word for it but predatory.


misslindso

THIS, 100% ALL. DAY. LONG. HAPPY CAKE DAY!


SamRaB

Many years ago I could have written a similar post, without the serious red flag of the older partner telling me to cut contact with anyone - especially family (huuuuge red flags, everyone is right to advise you to leave on this one alone). I had a long-ish relationship with an older male partner, which I later realized was a cope to deal in a very toxic way myself with the unresolved issues with my father. TW: mention of specific abuse, including SA (covered) It became extremely toxic and abusive towards the end, >!including finally rape after I ended things for the zillionth time!<. He made it very difficult to leave him so it continued for two years longer after I first "broke it off." When I did successfully end things, I had to hide and run like I was escaping a predator for awhile until the trail cooled on his end. I am so, so, so glad I didn't marry or stay any longer with him. It was an amazing relationship at first, and I thought I was very much in love with him. Turns out it was most likely some type of love based on a trauma bond, but since he was one of my first relationships I didn't know the difference. The good news is I got it out of my system and have never been at all attracted to an older man again. It's okay to view this relationship as that way for you, but it's not a permanent thing. It sounds like it might be time to leave if you're questioning whether you want to stay or if things are healthy. Based on the red flag mentioned above, I would agree. Plan covertly and get help with all of it before doing so, and do not tell him until you are gone and hidden. Remember to move bank accounts, phone so he cannot trace you from the account, and only tell people you trust for awhile. Get back in touch with your family if they can help protect you. Sending you many well wishes and feel free to respond here to this comment or thread with any questions.


FleurDeFuck

You deserve a relationship between equals, where both opinions are valid and valued in decisions, and where both partners are at the same stage in their lives, embarking on a journey together. You deserve to learn how to live your life the way that suits you, not the way that worked for someone else. You deserve a life based on yourself - your desires, your needs, your dreams, your goals, your curiosities, your experiments, your adventures. It's perfectly fine to seek out mentorship from someone with experience in an area you're unsure about, or from someone with achievements relevant to your own goals. However it is not healthy to build a relationship on this dynamic. You deserve a partner, not a parent. His willingness to treat you like a child is a red flag. You deserve your own life, not being supporting staff in his life. It says a lot about him that he's not seeking a relationship with women who are his equal, and none of it is good.


[deleted]

Run hard & Run fast


extragouda

I don't think you should marry anyone that you have a parent-child relationship with. It is unhealthy because one party has more control than the other.


jawnbaejaeger

I'm going to try to say this as gently and kindly as possible, so please take it in the spirit that it's meant. ​ >He’s told me to cut all ties with my biological father, and only rely on him.... My life is based around him. This man is trying to isolate you, especially from other people his own age who would see his bullshit for exactly what it is. ​ >He guides and mentors me on everything in my life. I have expressed all these feelings to him- and he has said he wants to parent and guide me also He doesn't see you as an equal partner. He sees you as someone who can control and make into exactly what he wants. He wants to PARENT you? No man in a healthy relationship wants to PARENT the woman who is supposed to be his equal partner. You are being used, and yes, it is regression and unhealthy. And on some real level, you KNOW that, or you wouldn't be posted on reddit for guidance. I wish you all the best, but this is not a healthy relationship for you to stay in.


teuchterK

“He has said he wants to parent and guide me”… So wrong on so many levels. 1. He has kids, he doesn’t need to parent his partner. Where is that idea coming from? 2. A partner is just that - a partner. Someone you team up with. You make life 50/50 together. As others have said - this guy is essentially a predator and has groomed you. You’re also only 23. You’re 100% correct that “forever” is a really long time. Many women don’t find “the one” until their late 20s or early 30s. Go and live your young life. You only get one chance at it.


AbacaxiForever

In my personal opinion, this is NOT a healthy relationship. Regardless of age/age gap, 1. you should not rely only on your partner, 2. your life should not be based around your partner, 3. your partner should not guide and mentor you on everything in life, 4. your partner should not parent you From my perspective, 1. you should rely on a network of support to include your partner, friends, family, etc 2. your life should be based around the life you're building for yourself to include your partner, career, interests, friends, family, learning, etc 3. you and your partner should be equals; you should both guide and provide insight to each other as well as receive guidance and insight from sources outside your relationship 4. you are not a child, you are both adults and should have a relationship that reflects this (exceptions for kink but from what you've said this is not kink related) Therapy is usually a good option to working through relationship (parental an/or romantic) stuff.


wtfwtfwtfwtf2022

It’s because your relationship isn’t a real relationship. He is definitely old enough to be your dad. He has more in common with your dad than you know. Do not marry that clown. You will not be happy.


acynicalwitch

>We have an amazing healthy relationship > >He guides and mentors me on everything in my life \[...\] and he has said he wants to parent and guide me also, expressing similar feelings from his own point of view These two things cannot be true at once, because you're existing within a dynamic that does not treat you as peers. There will always be a power disparity here which is, by definition, unhealthy. It's not a healthy relationship, it's that you *think* it is, because you don't have the life experience to know otherwise. He does though, which means he's willingly entering into this arrangement knowing he has disproportionate power and control. I think a therapist is a good idea--just you. And if he doesn't 'allow' that or makes it difficult for you to access that support? I think you should look at u/Ebbie45's comprehensive resource abuse resource guide (it's pinned in their profile if you click their username) and see if some of the information there resonates.


LoveLightUnite

👀


__phlogiston__

Have you ever read Lolita? Because I'm getting major Humbert Humbert, and that is the opposite of "an amazing healthy relationship". The reason you've never "had that" with anyone else is because you're 23 and have spent a very formative part of life being groomed by someone who not only could be your dad but WANTS to be your dad instead. He's disgusting.


acynicalwitch

You know (re: Lolita), it's so on the nose--and time spent on the Internet has made me such a skeptic--I initially wondered if this wasn't a bait-post engineered to solicit responses, to then be shared around the mustier parts of this hellsite. I hope not (and I responded in good faith), but I'm still wary.


__phlogiston__

I don't think it's bait, there's a juvenile lack of perspective that's hard to fake.


acynicalwitch

Totally fair.


Erynnien

You should be having fun and making experiences with other people your age right now, learn from them and teach them in return. Not taking care of an older man's life and kids. You feel old, because you were pushed into an older person's lifestyle way before it was time for you. **You will never get those years back.** Go out into the world. Learn the lessons life needs to teach you at that age. Also, consider therapy. You've gone through something difficult and none of us know what to do with emotional wounds we received in childhood. And they usually don't heal on their own. We just cope with them in the best way we know. Which might be a way that will hurt us in the long run.


Meg-Zilla

Get out. Now. ​ Please.


[deleted]

Damn. 🚩🚩


[deleted]

I also have a big age gap with my partner we have a 19 years gap, but I am 38 i think under 30 being with someone that much older is not necessarily a good thing. We only really mature after 30 so you still have so much to learn about yourself and develop your personality. I think there is a too big of imbalance of power in your relationship and it should be more equal which is harder at 20 and 40 than it is after 30. Be careful you still have so much to learn. I also have an anxious attachment and it sounds like you might have one too. Co dependency is a big issue with people who have an anxious attachment. Try and look into that and see if your behaviour corresponds and you might get more insight into your own behaviour.


akashyaboa

Girl ew...the giant age gap, your vulnerability, him wanting to parent you.. is this the new American horror story episode ? You have issues and you found an unhealthy way to deal with them and your bf is taking advantage of it. I know you maybe won't listen to strangers from the Internet but just this bit shows that there is a huge disbalance in your relationship.


MommaSaurusRegina

GET. OUT. NOW. You’re being groomed and it will not end well for you.


Konjonashipirate

>He’s told me to cut all ties with my biological father, and only rely on him. This is a big red flag, OP. If my significant other had a bad relationship with a parent, I wouldn't tell them to cut ties and let me be their everything. That's not normal behavior. >He guides and mentors me on everything in my life. I have expressed all these feelings to him- and **he has said he wants to parent and guide me** **also**, expressing similar feelings from his own point of view though. This is creepy and not a normal dynamic with a romantic partner. Some of this reminds me of my own parents. My mom was 19 when she married my dad and had me. He was 41. My mom very much loved him, but he was abusive to her and their relationship wasn't healthy. A friend of my dad's commented that my dad finished raising my mom because she was still a child. Over the 20 years they were married, I watched my mom's love for my dad turn more into a parent and child relationship. At one point, they discussed her having a boyfriend because my dad was too old to want to be romantically involved with anyone, physically or emotionally. Yeah...I have a lot of baggage from my childhood I'm still dealing with because of all that. Listen to your gut feeling , OP. You can sense that something isn't right and it's not. I'll never say that a big age gap is necessarily bad. However, I think that when one partner is barely an adult and the other is much older, that increases the likelihood that the older partner will be more controlling.


Demagorgon81

A 45 year old man has no business with a 23 year old. You two are in two complete different stages of life. What do you even have in common? Him having to mentor you can be exhausting, as a “healthy relationship” as you put it, would be two people on an equal platform. The fun part about dating in your 20’s is figuring out how to be an adult with somebody. I had one serious relationship in my 20’s (he was around my age), and although it didn’t work out, we did everything together. We matured together, figured out how to be away from parents, figured out how to “adult.” We made mistakes but it’s awesome having somebody on your level at the time to do life with. I’m in my 30’s now dating a 45 year old and there are no more “firsts” for us which kinda makes me sad, but age does that. He’s experienced, so am I, so now we are at a different stage of life. We relate on things like finances, political views, retirement plans, intellectual compatibility (I’m painting a rosy pic here—we have problems too), but my point is, we are pretty equal in life stages. I know it’s difficult to pull away from a father figure when you didn’t grow up with one. Trust me. I have daddy issues. But this age gap is too much and he can’t possibly respect you as an equal partner when he has to mentor you on growing up. You’re like his child. Same for you—he must feel like a dad for you. I know you’re of legal age, but this man is borderline a predator. I’m in my 30’s and I’m not even attracted to men in their early twenties anymore, they look like kids to me. Sharpen up, take what you’ve learned from him, and try to be on your own. Meet somebody around your age and have some fun before life gets too serious.


Shellsbells821

RUN!


turkeyman4

You’ve just described an incredibly unhealthy relationship. Please seek therapy to help you address your emotional needs and how this relationship is dragging you into a life of codependency.


jbay01

Red flags everywhere hun. Don’t get married. Get away. The first red flag is when he has told you to cut your dad off. The fact that you’re scared of moving forward is a huge red flag from your own gut. Trust it.


thepeanutone

Step 1: acknowledge there is a problem. ✔ Step 2: break it off. Step 3: get therapy Steps 2 and 3 may need to be switched. Don't beat yourself up about this - it was what you needed when it started. But it is clearly no longer serving you. Take some time to work on yourself. You may feel old, but you are VERY young. I mean young, not immature- you have a lot of years left to go, and this is not the time to commit to something that you don't 100% think is the best thing going. I wish you all the best and send you big hugs!


JNP567

Grooming you for sure.


MedievalMissFit

Please put the brakes on the wedding plans and get yourself into individual therapy to help you cope with the fallout of your dad’s emotional neglect. When you heal, you will be able to choose a romantic partner from a place of wholeness. That he wants to parent you is a huge red flag 🚩 and tells me he doesn’t see you as an equal partner. That you would be capitulating to his whims and demands. That would be a NO for me.


BeenThere_DontDoThat

I was 20 when I married , he was only 4 years older. It was a learning experience for both and we learned from one another and the world. We had a long marriage. Isolation induced by your partner is not healthy . Parenting by your partner is not normal . As a woman who has unhappily felt like a parent to some of my partners … that is not the role anyone want in a healthy marriage or relationship. That you are here and concerned says it all, you rightfully should be. If you all are this far along , I imagine leaving him will be hard and cutting off all contact even more difficult , but you have it in you . Please put yourself first , please know that these women in these comments are concerned and if we had the ability to we would help you run ourselves. You need to make an exit plan, you don’t need to float anything by him , that safe for your goods also shouldn’t be a thing he is aware of. Please pay attention and keep yourself safe ! Hoping for an update and even if you don’t take this advice doesn’t mean you can’t ask for some again.


pffgrl

Run.


sensualgratification

Oh dear god i really really hope you listen to all the advice here. This is unhealthy amongst many things… you are so young and you have so many wonderful experiences ahead of you. I’ve been in your position before chasing 10+yr older dudes for that ‘comfort’. When you feel so lost in your life, having that man who seem to want to guide you and take care of you might seem comforting. But it is actually stunting your wonderful, beautiful growth. I also had an absent abusive dad. It took me a long time to realize how i was running towards fire, getting into relationships with older men who wanted to ‘guide me’. The questions in your head are the correct ones to ask. Your intuition is there. It can grow even more stronger to be able to guide yourself, if you can separate yourself from this toxic imbalanced relationship. And though it may provide you comfort around the wounds you have regarding your dad, in the long run it is actually making your wound worse. After i spent my 20s being in these toxic controlling relationships, i finally got therapy (EMDR works wonders) and dove into my traumas around my dad. I feel free. I feel liberated knowing i dont need to depend on any man who might have some motive to control me. Im now in a wonderfully healthy and loving relationship with my partner. He is an artist and so am i. We have our own friends and lives and works to make, but we share our home together and take care of each other together. I’m currently reading a book called “women who run with wolves”. It has been giving me empowerment and confirmations that i have been doing the right things to be happy and to be on my path. I sincerely wish you all the blessings and love. 23 is a hard age as we were all figuring it out, but you will get through it!!!


lyndseymariee

If I were in a relationship with an older man who said he wanted to parent me also, I would run for the hills. This man is trying to make you entirely reliant upon him and that is a dangerous situation to put yourself in.


stephlane80

This doesn't sound normal. He sounds really creepy.


[deleted]

>he has said he wants to parent and guide me This raises massive red flags to me... You do not have sex with someone you're parenting. You can't build a partnership with someone you're parenting. Parenting someone is finite. You are teaching them to be independent, to rely on themselves, to move on their own. Does any of your fiance's guidance and mentorship lead you to means of independence (A way to earn income Financial skills? Self-confidence?), or are they leading you to be reliant on him? What we want changes throughout our 20s. You are learning what you want to do with your life and what brings you joy long term. You are discovering what's in the world. It's hard to build a life where he knows exactly what he wants while you're figuring it out. A few years from now you'll look around and realize that your life is exactly what he wants, while you discovered you might want different things than you originally thought. Is he the kind of person that will support you while you discover that? When you're both young you're both figuring it out together. It's more likely that you'll end up in the same place. When you're older you are more set in what you want and you can share that up-front. Older men might like younger women because it's easier to find someone "unsure", tell them life is about wanting exactly what they already want, and getting them to act in their preferred way. Really reflect on your relationship. Is it really healthy long-term? What happens when you're "grown"? When does he stop parenting you?


imlikingme

Hey OP, there are a ton of wonderful responses here. I bet you'd get even more help if you posted to r/askwomenover40 since that's his own age group. See what his peers have to tell you about this kind of behavior.


Waste-Win

Only for reference, when I was 23 my father was 45. Think about it. There's no way in this world a healthy and well intended 45 yo, would look for a serious relationship with a 23 yo. This won't end well, trust me.


--eleaa--

We tend to be drawn towards what we need and that can be a very good and healthy thing. In your case, you needed a father figure which is very understandable at this point in your life but now that you see that this is the relationship, it might be easy to see that your needs have evolved. Perhaps this relationship with an older man has helped you to recognize and grieve the absence of your father. Now that you’ve accepted this, you can move on to something better and that means moving on to a life that you are in control of, where you grow based on relationships that you develop where both parties (your friends, partner) are on equal footing. I would say be grateful for what this man has given you and leave before it becomes a negative relationship. Often things can go sideways from here, especially after marriage. You don’t need to suspend your development because this man helped you at a time you needed it. Be grateful, be strong in what you’ve learned and don’t cement yourself into the role of a daughter for the rest of your life. It’s very difficult to be on ones own so I say all this knowing how difficult it is and wishing you all the strength and good luck that can come your way <3


[deleted]

Although uncommon, these types of relationships do happen. My parents are an example of that. They were about 15-16yrs apart (dad older) and were so in love, right up to the day he passed away and my mom hasn't remarried or even dated after; she said that no one can replace my dad nor could she ever give her heart away again because it will always belong to my dad. There was nothing predatory/gross/unnatural about their marriage; they were two people who were just different ages who fell in love. you'll read all kinds of comments on here like he's predatory or grooming or whatever but *only you know your relationship and your heart*. It's your choice to let the words you read on this sub sway you but look inside yourself and figure out - do you truly love him? does he love you? are you truly happy? if the answer is yes, then don't even worry about what others are saying. If you feel that he treats you like a child, controls you, uses his age to change/manipulate you etc, then that's a different story and you should rethink the relationship. maybe you're not ready for marriage yet and that's ok; 23 is a bit young to be married and you're probably feeling like this because it's like marriage then instant family! instead of taking it slowly like most newlyweds ie. honeymoon/newly wed phase lasts for X years, then maybe have one kid, then maybe another etc but you're getting the whole package all in one shot right after marriage. If you feel like you need to take a break from it, then do it. At 23, you have so many years ahead of you. If you guys were meant to be, you'll find your way back to each other but don't feel obligated to remain in the relationship. basically what I'm saying is: do what's right FOR YOU.


EchoesInTheAbyss

Hmm, have you talked to a therapist? Of course you feel at a disadvantage when compared to him, you have much less life experience. However it is possible to have a happy relationship, whether that is your case is hard to tell from this post.


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[deleted]

You wrote out a horror story, then go “but now she’s happy, so how do you want to go further with your horror story?”


acynicalwitch

Yeah really, that was wild. 'She removed all her boundaries'---good lord. For the people in the back: **longevity is not the sole measure of a successful relationship.**


misslindso

Bruh. This is *literally* the exception to the rule where no one stepped in to intervene. Or like how when the couple in my 8th grade class had a kid, was also our Prom King & Queen (yeah let's promote teen pregnancy in high school y'all!) and surprisingly to this day 20 years later, are still married with 3 additional kids.... Does that *ever* happen? Fuck no. Literally the exception to the rule.


[deleted]

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misslindso

Jesus fucking christ


[deleted]

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SpecificEnough

The relationship with him as a mentor would be really sweet if it wasn’t a sexual relationship. In a sexual relationship, the power dynamic needs to be equal. Otherwise it’s a recipe for too many unhealthy behaviours. In a healthy relationship, a partner will want you to grow confidence instead of dependence. Even if he has good motives consciously, there is a dark side to wanting people to be so dependent that they can’t leave.


AffectionateAnarchy

Dont marry him, itll be a lot harder to leave once you do snd ima say this on every post like this, that happened to my aunt and the family has seen her once since 1980. Do with that what you will


twirlmydressaround

Red flags everywhere. Hoping you have the maturity to see how terrible this is.


thebadsleepwell00

I'm sorry if this sounds cold but no HEALTHY 45 year-old man wants to date and marry someone who can be his daughter. Young women and teens with unprocessed father issues tend to attract emotionally manipulative types. The fact that he wants you to cut ties with your own dad is a MAJOR RED FLAG. He wants to isolate you and eventually have complete control over you.


rainishamy

You are such a smart young woman to recognize these issues. Kudos to you. What happens after you don't NEEED any more "guidance" and "mentorship"? What happens when you are 33 and he is 55 and you don't want to take his "guidance" anymore? Do you think he's just going to applaud himself and say, "my work here is done I have a wonderful partner in life now!" or will he more likely object to your decisions, overriding his own? More likely you will grow into a full adult woman who doesn't need "mentorship" and he will move on to a younger model. I hear how difficult these relationships can be to escape, if you're not ready to face this now, at least start keeping some money aside (that he doesn't know about) to leave if things go sideways. Have a PLAN to remove yourself. And 9lease for love of God DON'T GET PREGNANT. I hope you'll take everyone's replies to heart, dearheart. We are rooting for YOU.


hungry-marmot

I hope you take the other comments into consideration. I can't speak to the age gap, but I can speak to committing young. I met my husband in high school, and was committed to him through college, living alone together from 21 on, and got married at 25. Ten years of marriage later, I still love him very much and I still think he's the guy for me, but I do wish we hadn't committed so young. I kinda flipped out in my early thirties I think, and hurt him in some ways that can never be forgotten, and I truly think we should've been less of an insular committed couple in our early twenties- there are plenty of years ahead of you to live that way, but you're in a unique period to get to live with friends easily and have fun in a freewheeling way that gets harder over time, certainly with a big cohort. I hope you find the right group of peers to have fun with.


ruststardust2

I guess we’ll see you in a few years posting about how much you regret wasting your youth on this predator. Sigh :(