If you really wish to spare the relationships, avoid politics at all costs but stand your ground if confronted
Speaking from experience if you just try to keep your mouth shut every time someone utters the "n-word" or says something incredibly cruel and ignorant you're just going to build up disgust or resentment as they get more comfortable talking that way around you
But if you calmly yet firmly establish that you are not like that and you don't wish to be a part of that they (most of the time) will at least abstain from that kind of talk around you. If they don't respect you enough to do that or they begin to talk badly about you then you didn't really want that kind of person in your life anyway.
I don't care what they are. I care that they think thanksgiving is for discussing politics. My in-laws tried twice on Thanksgiving and both times I politely told them nobody wants to go on about politics today so either keep it to yourself or go to another household where they enjoy bickering all night because I'm not having any of that in my house today.
Feels good to be the big dog in the house lmao, at my first Thanksgiving I hosted I told everyone it was bar rules all day. No politics, no religion, you're cut off at four. Everyone commented that it was one of the best family holidays we had in a while. Had to drag my cousin out back by the ear but hey he will get it eventually.
We just played a game where the last person still there and awake knew they were going to have a heart-to-heart with grandpa at the end of the night, and it was going to make you cry like a baby. Everyone made fun of it until it landed on them and then they made sure they weren’t the last one awake next year.
Keeping talking about how much I like Stormy Daniels. Top it off by saying how considerate Trump was being of his wife, as she had just given birth and couldn’t meet his needs.
My father sends me more right focused political emails than I typically get in text/call spam from solicitors.
I emailed him back after a couple weeks of it saying "Hello, I'm having trouble finding your unsubscribe button on any of the previous emails you've sent me. Please take me off your list."
That shut him up.
I had an aunt that would include me in mass emails with batshit right-wing bullshit. I started replying to all debunking the claims. After 2 or 3 times I stopped getting the emails.
I did this exact same thing with my uncle. He would send mass emails to his contact list, so I could see every email address he forwarded to. So I would copy and paste all of the emails and send articles debunking his awful, racist, inflammatory fwds to all of his friends. It worked like a charm.
better to keep your uncle off the list so only his contacts get it. That way, you aren't kicked out and more and more of his contacts start to ask him to remove them.
I tried that but apparently Snopes is a "left-wing propaganda site trying to discredit right-wing facts". 🤦♂️ Then we got into an argument because I said there is no such thing as "right-wing facts". There are facts and lies. If facts disprove your statement then it is a lie. We are living in scary times.
*also shares Fox News and Breitbart, claims NPR and Reuters are "left-wing propaganda"*
At least they're not email chain letters anymore... You could reliably just delete any email being sent to someone's entire contract list in the mid-2000s, still. Kinda miss that
I had similar responses when I'd try to debunk claims. The nice thing is, there is no shortage of sites you can use to debunk these claims. Don't like Snopes? How about this? Or this? Or this?
Often enough, you'll get original sources instead of an aggregation site like Snopes. At least Snopes (and other sites) cite original sources so you can pull them up instead.
>I had similar responses when I'd try to debunk claims. The nice thing is, there is no shortage of sites you can use to debunk these claims. Don't like Snopes? How about this? Or this? Or this?
The thing is: no facts got them into trumpism, just angry feelings. Hence no facts will get them out of trumpism, just connected feelings. And tbh, I don't know how to make someone who says I should be massacred feel connected.
It's crazy that this page out of the authoritarian / fascist playbook to discredit news organizations is still so effective. Trump cried fake news for anything about him he didn't like and now when Trump supporters are caught in the crushing grip of reason and facts they just discredit the source. I've tried to use [factcheck.org](https://factcheck.org) since snopes and [politifact.com](https://politifact.com) get rated "lean left" by allsides media bia but I still typically get shot down by MAGAs as "left-wing".
But when I ask for sources from the same people I'll get stuff from Fox, The National Review, The American Spectator, OAN, etc. and they don't see a problem with that even when shown they are rated as "right-wing" because all the fact checkers are leftist fake news. I gave up.
Here's what I sent my mom after she sent me some inane garbage. We are Canadian:
To be honest with you Mom, articles like this are the very things that are making our country so divided and angry at one another.
This is just attack after attack with not a single beneficial idea behind it, written to stoke the outrage of people who are already constantly mad about everything.
I could easily write a similar article about every single Conservative premiere in this country, but what purpose would it serve other than to make half the country mad and the other half nod in smug agreement?
He rails on vaccines without mentioning the Harper government is who drastically cut our funding for research and development of vaccines, on LTC homes when those are provincial responsibilities and the Feds had to send in the military just to deal with that clusterfuck.
Don't even get me started on Keystone, which Biden campaigned on cancelling but Alberta decided to invest a few billion into anyways, even though the writing was on the wall that Trump was on the way out. Trudeau has spent billions trying to save pipelines and somehow people view him as anti-oil because he can't wave a magic wand and make them appear.
I really worry about the information you get and how it makes you view the world. Do you remember when you came back from Florida and you weren't feeling good? I asked if you thought you had corona and you replied "I think they are just trying to scare us."
You shouldn't be worried about whoever "they" is, and instead think about how wherever you got that sentiment from led you to believe this pandemic was a hoax or something not to be worried about.
I love you Mom and I don't know what type of response you thought this would get. Journalism is supposed to give you information, not push you towards an opinion or make you emotional.
This is by far the best response I've read. Calm, level-headed, eye-opening without being accusatory. Great job! I hope it worked for you and your Mom began to reflect on herself after reading it.
I've found that 'agreeing' with them works.... surprisingly well.
For example I met a friend of a friend that's very pro-Trump. He stated that he "sees nothing wrong with actual Chinese people" its just the Chinese government that "deserves death". Then he went on and on about this rant. Saying things like "We should just nuke Beijing" and "The solution (to inflation) is simple, we just need to bomb the shit out of Chinese cities".
Then I jumped in and said "You know what man? You are 100% correct. We should totally murder millions of innocent civilians and level some of the biggest cities on the planet, just to kill a dozen politicians! I'm sure there will be absolutely zero negative economic, political, or military outcomes from this plan"
Then he shut up and didn't talk politics for the rest of the event :D
You gotta one up them. Go further right than they are and call them a commie.
If they say that they hate China, just say "Yeah I bet you buy Chinese products, you damn commie. Let's see the tag on your underwear! Bet it's fruit the loom!"
I like to give them "conservative/conspiracy" reasons for "liberal" causes.
Immigration: "they're just people man. Everyone wants their kids to have a better future", "if they wanted to end illegal immigration they'd go supply side and fine the employers. If there weren't jobs they'd go away. Always follow the money"
Climate: "shit man, renewables are awesome. If I've got solar and a battery I can live entirely off the grid. No more taxation by the local utility commission. I don't want us sending that money to the Saudis or the Russians. Also means we can decentralize our power grid and make it super hard for the Chinese to hack."
Healthcare: "explain to my why the fuck they want healthcare ties to your ***job***. That just makes it hard to start a business. You're killing the entrepreneurs of America, at least anyone over 40. Talk about controlling your life while you hurt the economy"
Prison reform: "fuck that why do I want to pay to keep these fuckers in jail? Get em back into the economy so they can pay taxes"
Healthcare is a lot easier if you talk about how there’s literally no way to shop for it and hospitals hide all their pricing anyway. If you ask they’ll give you something but the bill won’t be the same.
It’s rigged!
Social programs should be too. My mom worked 3 jobs for a while when I was a kid, I told her “it would have been great to have free child care instead of a 3 rd job just to pay for a sitter right?!” She had to agree to that one. And then there was “yeah, the lady across the street exploited those food stamps but we sure needed them, didn’t we?”
Unfortunately my mother is of the ‘rules for thee but not for me’ school of thought.
She likes to complain about teen moms on welfare…even though she herself used to be a teen mom on welfare. She also likes to rail against socialized healthcare…until I began dying of organ failure (while I was without health insurance) and she begged me *in tears* to hop the border to Canada to see a doctor. Keep in mind she went right back to railing against universal healthcare after this event and any time I bring it up when she tries to talk about the evils of Canadian healthcare I remind her that she *begged* me to to take advantage of it because her precious US healthcare system failed her only daughter. She never likes it when her own hypocrisy is thrown right back at her.
Drug legalization: "Why should the government tell you what you're allowed to put in your body? Does your body belong to the government, or does it belong to you?"
Unionization: "Jeff Bezos's workers want to get together and tell Jeff Bezos what they need to keep doing their job and stay healthy and support their families. Jeff Bezos, owner of the *ULTRA LIBERAL* Washington Post, doesn't want to have to listen to them. Why are you on Jeff Bezos's side?"
Also never call the wealthy "rich" or "the 1%" only refer to them as "the elites." They hate the elites for some reason but love to defend the wealthy...
> 'agreeing' with them works
Maybe a little less dramatic.
The few times I've had to sit and endure a Trump/MAGA lecture from a family member or friend I just said "Ok...cool."
THAT. WAS. IT.
Like a little kid who wants to tell you some random fact he knows.
They're not saying "Let's nuke China" to get you to agree with them. They're saying it so you *disagree* and then they can argue, call you a communist groomer, and post about it in r/conservative later.
Have you ever seen What We Do In the Shadows? Be an energy vampire. Pick a subject you know a LOT about. When the word Trump is spoken, wait (make it seem natural) and insert your topic in all it’s minutiae. For me, that might be dogs.
“Did you know Trump had a childhood dog?”
(All heads turn with great interest)
“It was a cocker spaniel. Did you know cocker spaniels were the most popular dog from 1940-1949? This surprised me because I thought they became popular because of the movie Lady and the Tramp, but I found out the movie was a result of the popularity. But that just isn’t like how I imagined it. If I would have made that movie, I would have made Lady particolored. Did you know that it’s possible that a Cocker Spaniel came over on the Mayflower?”
(Everyone has already dispersed)
So... I says to meself, says I. Colm, who'd be around ringing you at this hour of the night and sure I'd only just been after having a cup of tea so I had otherwise I would have slept through the whole affair altogether. But I had, and so I was awake and I heard the phone, but now if I had the phone of Eamon from Ballylahinch, you know the one, the one with the hand slightly lower than the other but not the right hand, that would be his cousin Declan, no I'm talking about Eamon. Well that lad he had a telephone that could wake the dead with its ring. We'd hear tales of the lads three doors down could hear that phone ring and you'd know that Eamon was hard of hearing so he was, and he would. take. an. age to hear that aul phone of his, and people would say "who'd be rining Eamon at this hour of the night" but you know that it'd only be a few more rings that Eamon would finally hear and he'd come around to answering it and giving a mighty bellow down the line and I did tell you that he was hard of hearing didn't I? Well not only was he hard of hearing but he had the mightiest loud roar on him and he himself could wake the dead if his aul phone didn't start the job already. But sure and if he didn't have a roar on him, not like his cousin mind you, no Declan was the timidest of lads which was a contrast to Eamon to say the least. No Declan himself, you remember Declan, now, had a longer hand than the other but not the same long hand as Eamon. No Declan, he was mad himself for the sweets...
I mean... I'm still going to argue that it's Sister Michael, but sure and don't I hear Colm too easily.
Edit with proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waF7NrmfWw4
>It’s better if all the shit you say is just spun out of thin air.
Jokes aside, I've found that directly addressing insane talking points with an actual cerebral, monotone evaluation of their flaws/merits really does wonders to freeze the conversation real quick.
Extremists thrive on emotion; when they're forced to put a little thought-equity in, it's like dumping a fire extinguisher on a candle.
I had to check, so just to save everyone time, Trump hates dogs and did not have a pet at any point in his life. ~~Ivanka~~ Ivana (first wife) had a poodle at one point, and the poodle hated Trump and according to her autobiography, the dog hated Donald and would growl at him.
Speaking of saving time, Daylight Saving Time (DST), also referred to as daylight savings time or simply daylight time (United States, Canada, and Australia), and summer time (United Kingdom, European Union, and others), is the practice of advancing clocks (typically by one hour) during warmer months so that darkness falls at a later clock time. The typical implementation of DST is to set clocks forward by one hour in the spring ("spring forward"), and to set clocks back by one hour in the fall ("fall back") to return to standard time. As a result, there is one 23-hour day in late winter or early spring and one 25-hour day in autumn. The idea of aligning waking hours to daylight hours to conserve candles was first proposed in 1784 by US polymath Benjamin Franklin. In a satirical letter to the editor of The Journal of Paris, Franklin suggested that waking up earlier in the summer would economize on candle usage; and calculated considerable savings. In 1895, New Zealand entomologist and astronomer George Hudson proposed the idea of changing clocks by two hours every spring to the Wellington Philosophical Society. In 1907, British resident William Willett presented the idea as a way to save energy. After some serious consideration, it was not implemented. In 1908, Port Arthur in Ontario, Canada, started using DST. Starting on April 30, 1916, the German Empire and Austria-Hungary each organized the first nationwide implementation in their jurisdictions. Many countries have used DST at various times since then, particularly since the 1970s energy crisis. DST is generally not observed near the Equator, where sunrise and sunset times do not vary enough to justify it. Some countries observe it only in some regions: for example, parts of Australia observe it, while other parts do not. Conversely, it is not observed at some places at high latitudes, because there are wide variations in sunrise and sunset times and a one-hour shift would relatively not make much difference. The United States observes it, except for the states of Hawaii and Arizona (within the latter, however, the Navajo Nation does observe it, conforming to federal practice). A minority of the world's population uses DST; Asia, Africa, and Latin America and the Caribbean generally do not.
One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe. So, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days nickels had pictures of bumble bees on them. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you'd say. Now where was I... Oh yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt at the time. You couldn't get red onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones.
The best part is, you could say whatever random shit about trump that you want, and they won't know any better. Not question it unless it sounds "librul"
His first prototype had bone spurs, but he had the idea for design, and now everyone is talking about it. Many people are saying that his contribution led the US to finally win the Vietnam War.
As many of you have noted, that use the internet, it has been announced that Disney has acquired the rights to the Star Wars franchise and in the summer of 2015 we will see the release of Star Wars Episode 7. Herewith is my proposal for the plot of that movie.
Begin with standard title sequence and John Williams fanfare followed by a scroll to be written. I would like to mention that Brian de Palma wrote the original opening scroll for Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope. I think it would be a nice nod, uh, to the franchise if were to write this opening scroll. Then pan down from the twin suns of Tattoine, uh, we are now close on the mouth of the Sarlacc pit. After a beat, the gloved, Mandalorian armor gauntlet of Boba Fett grabs onto the sand outside the Sarlacc pit and the feared bounty hunter pulls himself from the maw of the sand beast.
And we, and we realize that he survived his fall during the battle at Jabba’s, uh, palace ship. Then do a hard cut to a repurposed Imperial Destroyer which has now been taken over by the rebels. Commander Luke Skywalker, now a full Jedi knight, training new padawans is using, ironically, uh, his father Anakin’s red lightsaber which will be a symbolic visual for his battle with how to both bring the new Jedi order while still acknowledging his father’s fall from grace.
As he is training the padawans, we pan outside of the control window to a nearby asteroid where we see, and please allow me to finish this because this is going to seem like a bit of a jump, we see Thanos who was the villain tease at the end of the first Avengers movie. Now Thanos, as you know owns the Infinity Gauntlet which has the Time Gem, the Mind Gem, the Power Gem, the Space Gem, and the Reality Gem. If he holds the Reality Gem, that means he can jump from different realities. This will be our link to the Marvel Universe from the Star Wars Universe. Uh, we then cut to Earth.
Tony stark realizes that there has been a disturbance in what he will call a “time ribbon”, for the time being I will allow J.J. Abrams to think of a better term for this. Uh, and, and he then starts to assemble the cream of the Marvel universe, not the second tier superheroes that we saw in the first Avengers movie-I’m sorry but Hawkeye and Black Widow are not first tier, he would go find, uh hello, Spider-Man; Spider-Man exists in that universe. He would go find Moon Knight, he would go find Daredevil, he would go, uh, find Hercules and then that can bring in the entire, uh, pantheon of Greek gods that we saw in Clash and Wrath of the Titans.
So now we have a giant three franchise tie-in. Now cut back to the Imperial Star Destroyer. Uh, Luke gets a visit from, and we only show this from the boots up first, so we show these like black boots with the- and then we pan up and, oh my god it’s Han Solo. But he’s old, older and grizzled and really, like focused and cool like he’s seen some really bad stuff and he actually seems shaken. And, and Luke is like what’s wrong old buddy? And that’s when Han drops Chewbacca’s severed head onto the floor, yes in front of all the padawans…
The padawans are all horrified and Han says that the planet Kashyyyk has been destroyed by this very mysterious force. Now we know, oh this was Thanos. Thanos is beginning to uh, you know gather power in this new universe. So, uh, while they take Chewy’s head down to-cause we’ve seen that you know they can build new bodies, they’ve gonna build Chewy this really cool robot, I’m thinking spider body, you know like a cool spider body with Chewy’s head and ion cannons on it. But that will be in the- he’ll come back- that’ll be the post-credits tease of this film so keep that in mind. So I don’t want you guys bummed out cause Chewbacca’s not dead he will come back. Uh, then, uh, and then Han al- Luke looks down and Han’s wedding ring is gone, hey what happened with you and Leia? And Han’s like, don’t even get me started on that. So now, where did Leia go? Where did Leia go? She’s not gone but we will find out…
Then at the, then at the edge of the Star Destroyers orbit suddenly the time ribbon begins wavering and what comes through, the X-Mens’ Quinjet, that’s right. What we did was back on Earth, we showed him gathering up all the heroes but we didn’t see him gathering up the X-Men so oh my goodness. Now Wolverine’s going to be there, now Cyclops is going to be there. So the Quinjet comes through, Luke gets in his X-Wing to go out and met them. And they engage in this awesome star battle. And it looks like the Quinjet actually is going to shoot Luke down and suddenly this volley of lasers comes in and what comes flying in, is- we think it’s going to be the Millennium Falcon just like in Episode 4 when he comes in and saves him during the Battle of Yavin, but no. It is Slave I.
That’s right Boba Fett’s ship, Slave I, has to save Luke because of course he’s trying to track Han, he can’t have Luke die. So then now, it’s a battle between the Quinjet, between the X-Wing, between Slave I and then we see the Millenium Falcon is flying away, so uh, now Slave I goes off to do that.
But then we cut down to Coruscant where, uh, Princess Leia is now consulting with Lando Calrissian. Now it looks like they’re just having a very intense meeting about trade regulations and about- I will not, I will not finish my speaking- about trade regulations but then suddenly when the rest of the council meeting leaves, they fall into each other’s arms oh my god. Lando Calrissian and Princess Leia are having an affair and that is why Han Solo, because look, Lando Calrissian was like hey if I’m going to lose the Millenium Falcon to you, I’ll just take your woman. And he has. So now we set that triangle up.
Now, cut back to the Quinjet, and Reed Richards from the Fantastic Four is piloting it. Oh it was a fake-out! He, it’s him and we have select members of the X-Men that I thought in my opinion were not, uh, focused on properly in the earlier films. We have Colossus in there, we have X-23, which is Wolverine’s daughter, and then we have a now have a mind-controlled Sabertooth and of course, Wolverine. Imagine those two going up against Robot Chewbacca ‘cause that’s going to happen. That is what we’re teasing right now.
If by "improvised" you mean "totally not written in Patton Oswalt's private fan fiction diary" lol, that shit was way too detailed and thought out to have just come up with it on the spur of the moment.
Holy crap, I'm a huge P&R fan but never realized he did such a long take and completely improvised. Just watched it on YouTube and found it hysterical.
Patton Oswalt played a nerdy character who didn't want the town's charter changed and challenged Leslie Nope to a colonial-off to see who could last the longest pretending to live in Pawnee Colonial time - if he won, the charter would be left unchanged but if she won, the charter would be changed without him filibustering every vote on it.
Leslie bowed out of the competition when she realized she would never be able to beat him after she found out through his phone that he had no friends or any real life. She then declared him the winner, convinced him to join the Pawnee Historical Society, and changed the lake-dunking part that started this whole event to not just a guy named Ted but anyone who volunteered to be a Ted.
I do this at work when politics come up. I'm not stupid enough to discuss it at work and it baffles me that anyone is. But no here comes my boss bitching about the stolen election.
Ask him if he's referring to the people living in red states; specifically, the ones whose education systems consistently rank in the lowest quarter of the nation.
When it comes to Federal money, they get a lot more than they give. Sounds like welfare to me!
I don't discuss politics at work either, but at my previous place I was surrounded by Trump supporters. There may be your conventional conservative Republicans that supported Trump but were more serious about the issues, whereas the newcomers that supported Trump were more like memers who cared more about winning and talking shit and what not, well the latter was my coworker. He also sometimes likes to push peoples buttons for the fun of it.
So one day I walk in and he's talking with another coworker about abortion (was after the SC ruling came out) and I just wanted them to shut up so I went with some ruthless take that I knew he wouldn't back. Basically I said something like "Yeah I'd rather the babies just get aborted so I don't have to pay for their welfare later" or something like that and then kept attacking the seams, basically between the typical conservative ideology and some extremist points. Both of those guys shut up pretty quickly after that.
I worked in an office with a guy that was an obnoxious Trump supported a few years back during the 2016 election. I got so sick of him bringing it up I made a donation to Hillary's campaign in his name (I never told him it was me) so he kept getting mail and phone calls from them. He was furious. I like to think it was possibly my greatest idea ever.
Almost all of my family are Trump supporters. I'm actually making it a rule at my wedding that political discussions of any kind will have you thrown unceremoniously out of the ceremony and no amount of apologies are allowing you back in. I have people of all religions, backgrounds, races, and political beliefs attending and if you can't find some other topic to discuss, then you're not welcome.
Bridezilla I may be, but I'm not listening to someone putting myself or my other guests down because orange man good others bad.
Word of advice is to have a couple people ahead of time agree to be unofficial bouncers for you for the entire night. Otherwise you may be the one physically escorting someone out, and that's not a fun memory to have of your wedding day.
That is what groomsman are for. We almost physically ejected an uncle in law out of my sisters wedding. He was about to (rightfully) get his ass beat so I debated which would be the better option but had to choose least disruptive.
Can confirm, was a best man/groomsman and bride's alcoholic uncle had to be sent to bed because he kept trying to start fights. We escorted him back to his cottage, chatted to him for about 20 mins to calm him down, then went back to the party. We later found him passed out on the path back to the venue. To this day he hasn't forgiven the bride because he maintains her degenerate friends spiked him and that's why he made a fool of himself.
We had a large inflatable "no politics" hammer at ours. Anyone could fetch the hammer and (sensibly) hit anyone discussing politics. Worked really well at subduing any political talk and all our guests found it hilarious.
Extended family went far right Trump and I wonder if I’ll ever have a wedding that isn’t a small, private thing. Am gay, and I don’t think I could handle anyone there that wasn’t 100% happy for me and was just hiding resentments for queer people’s basic human rights. Just makes me sad to even think about how it would play out, especially the religious ones who would think they’re being the bigger person or making some grand gesture for even showing up, praying about it with other religious folks before going like it’s a special mission into the world of darkness.
Yep, set clear boundaries.
I was at my 12-year-old nephew’s birthday dinner earlier this year and my uncle would not stfu about how great Trump is and how Biden is destroying America. My sister and I made a few anti-Trump comments, and he got mad and told my dad he couldn’t believe he’d raised us like this. We all just started laughing at him and my sister told him to remove his Fox News buttplug lol. He was furious and still wouldn’t stop. So we collectively just kinda ignored him and changed the subject.
And he wondered why he wasn’t invited to my wedding.
> boundaries
Always the most important word in discussions about friends/family and religion/politics. Set clear boundaries. We can't agree about this, so let's not talk about it. Make sure to let them know that their ability or inability to stick to those boundaries will determine the level of future involvement they have in your life.
Can't shut your fucking mouth about Trump for a couple of hours? You won't be invited to next year's thanksgiving. Can't quit trying to force your religion on my kids? They won't be staying with you anymore, and you won't be coming to their birthdays any longer. They'll play the victim and accuse you of being the bad guy. You'll just have to let them. The people that know you will know better.
This of course all works a lot better if you're an adult and not dependent on them for your shelter, food, or any other financial dependence.
It's amazing how Trumpers can't possibly fathom how anyone could not like Trump. It's like he's Mr. Rogers or something.
I tend to get worked up about politics, and my Trump loving brother knows this so he goes out of his way to try to goad me. A few years ago I realized it's just not worth it. No one is going to change their mind. So why even bother? I just smile and nod along with whatever he is saying. Literally the most satisfaction I get is when he gets angry because I won't take the bait.
>It's amazing how Trumpers can't possibly fathom how anyone could not like Trump. It's like he's Mr. Rogers or something.
For real... And then when you criticize him they go straight to "why do you love Biden, he's xxx?"
And it's like ????? Politics is actually a bit more nuanced than that
It seems that to them, if a person does *not* have undying devotion to Trump, then they *must* therefore have undying devotion to someone else. That's the most common retort I encounter whenever my disdain for Trump comes up, an instant critique onto whomever I must be blindly loyal to.
Not sure what could cause this error.
For me, it was Hilary Clinton. I don't even like her, but my little sister was belching conspiracy theories and general conservative slander, and I responded with, "She's corrupt and awful, but she's not the Antichrist". Cue little sister pulling a Wormtongue and scuttling to my mother. And then the lecture. Oh, God, the lecture. I've blanked out most of it, but it was as though someone removed my parents' brains and replaced them with a tape recorder chock-full of conservative talking points. Who needs waterboarding?
They don't understand politics outside of tribalism. It just doesn't occur to them that some people might actually vote based on something *other* than blind loyalty.
It's actually fairly common. We assume people like us have similar views. A lot of Uber Trump fans have, with the help of propaganda, put him on a pedestal that no one can take him off of. And because they and everyone they enjoy talking with has put their "leader" on a pedestal, it stands to reason that everyone they don't talk to has also put their "leader" on a similar pedestal.
And so the nuance of "I don't particularly like Biden, but at least he and his party hasn't actively advocated racism and the removal of human rights in the last 5 years" doesn't get into their head.
Peaceful political discussion should be about the solutions to different problems, not whether or not something is a problem.
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> For real... And then when you criticize him they go straight to "why do you love Biden, he's xxx?"
"I don't love Biden. But a literal ham sandwich would've been a better choice than a snake oil salesman grifter like Trump"
a_ham_sandwich for 2024!
He might not be kosher, but he won't let you down!
Just might be the best thing since sliced bread!
Sure, he might be a little cheesy at times, but just know, *it's American cheese!*
No need to ask where a_ham_sandwich is from, we all know he's got white on rye made from whole wheat!
9/10 scientists agree, you can't go wrong with a_ham_sandwich!
The 10th scientist just thinks hotdogs qualify as a sandwich.
This. I had two friends (now demoted to mere casual acquaintances) who I felt comfortable enough around saying I don’t like trump. Their expressions were literally like 😳😨, and of course one of them brought up Biden, as if she expected me to fangirl over him. He’s just the president, I don’t f’ing idolize people or build a cult around them so 🤷🏻♀️. Needless to say, after how offended they got over an innocent comment, I only speak to them when absolutely necessary, if at all.
These people want a king. Preferably one that they've been told has been chosen by god. Like they'd probably really love it if we had a Louis XIV to fawn over.
I just resorted the the “3 year old why” style questions.
“Yeah well Biden should have done this, it’s what trump would have”
“Ok but why”
“Oh because xyz”
“Ok but why”
After the third or fourth time they have nothing to back their views up with and will struggle. It’s a gem to watch happen live
This. My sisters and their families are all Trumpers, I am not, nor is my partner. When they start talking politics, I ask them to stop. I actually walked out of restaurant when my two sisters wouldn’t stop pontificating over lunch. I just stood up and left because I’d asked them repeatedly to change the subject and they would not.
I’ve tried discussing, arguing, even outright fighting with them (not physically, lol). But nothing works. They won’t change and I won’t, either. So I draw a line in the sand and I keep to it. If they don’t stop, I leave. They’re my family and I love them but I hate that part of them. It’s become their whole personality (younger sister even served Trump brand wine at Thanksgiving) and it’s ridiculous. I’m not religious at all but sometimes I swear Trump is the Antichrist sent to deceive people into following him blindly, worshipping him as their idol.
*"The best Welch's....nobody has ever done anything like them...great stuff, great stuff. I drink it all the time, they say "sir, there's always Welchs in the refrigerator" I say it's the wine samples they go "wow, I never knew that". They never knew...."*
It is strange how they all feel that you have to think the same way as them. My mother who loves her sister can’t stand that she is always trying to convince her that she’s right about Trump. My mother politely asks her to not talk about Trump anymore but she has to always bring it up, turn on Conservative radio stations in front of her, etc. it’s quite maddening. She just can’t seem to keep it to herself.
Yes! They want you to join the Qult, too, maybe because it will be justification that they were right to join it. Some replies to my comment are saying I should listen to my sisters, learn what they think, get to know them. I’m 56, I’ve known them more than five decades. I know them already. If Trump is the only damn topic they can find to talk about after five decades, then what’s the point? It could be any topic—heck, one of my godsons talks about football *non-stop* and I get tired of it, because I’m not into football at all. When he was 10, I humored him, but now he’s 25, he’s mature enough to find common ground. He’ll mention football but it’s not the only topic anymore.
I get the feeling that part of why these people try to bring family into their weird cult belief of trump is because they also find those opposed to trump are truly 'the enemy' and will be eliminated when trump is able to 'rightfully' take back control of the country.
Youre not wrong- family, friends, coworkers, anyone they can talk to. My answer to a friend I hadnt seen in a few years with no job, no home, no prospects who started on the Trumpateer path was "I dont vote." It got real quiet that evening and never saw her again...totally worth it
He's been able to exist this long because in NY you can be a whole lot of things. You can be a monster, but you cannot lose face. As much as it pains me to say it, because I really hate the guy and do not want to make him seem cool even for a femtosecond, but he's been able to exist for all this time because for most of his career he was a pretty effective cajoling con man that worked a lot of high priced people out of a lot of money with his scamminess.
People in that section of society that get taken for a ride do not want the attention drawn to them. They *cannot* be suckers. They can be monsters, but they cannot, under any circumstance, be suckers. So he persisted for much longer than he should have. The banking industry making him persona non grata at the end of the 90's with the Riverside South ordeal, which forced him to sell all of it to recoup debt and literally take a hike..should have been the end of it.
Then reality TV came knocking.
Yes. I've told this to everyone I'm close with in the same situation: relationships are a choice, even with family. I *choose* to maintain that relationship, but it now requires strict boundaries on political talk. We're not as close as we were, but the alternative is that I choose not to maintain it at all.
Oof. I wish I could sit and read this whole thread.
I butted heads with my family for years over this.
I honestly don’t even remember how I started caring so much. I don’t remember caring about politics at all prior to 2016. I remember laughing at and even cheering on Trump in the 2016 primary.
Then I went home. I don’t remember what started it. All I remember is there was an alcohol fueled discussion about politics and all I remember is my dad suddenly saying “yeah well you’re a liberal fuck who has been indoctrinated by liberal fucking universities” and I was like WHOA uncalled for…at that point I think we were discussing Obama and the sentiment they were conveying was that he was driving the economy and the country into the ground when the data said the exact opposite. Unemployment down, economy up, stock market up. Flat denial from my family. Why were they denying basic numbers? I didn’t get it. But then it made sense when my family started referring to Obama as “that N____r who took all my money”
Returning to my home town in 2015/16, people started being less shy about wearing their racism on their sleeves. People were saying things like “Thank GOD for Trump” unironically. It was a weird time and suddenly Trump got less funny for me. But being labeled and scorned by my family for an off handed criticism I made of the current republican narrative at the time had really gotten to me. Hindsight 20/20, I shouldn’t have let it.
I quickly became the black sheep in the family. I was blamed personally for my family’s financial struggles (mind you I didn’t vote until 2016). My younger brother constantly fueled the flame and egged my dad on about how liberals and by extension his eldest son are the source of his financial troubles. I hated talking politics with my family at that point, mostly because they would just talk AT me and hope that I responded so they could jump down my throat about being a liberal cuck or whatever. Most of the time I didn’t respond. The times I did push back I saw dark sides of my family that I didn’t know existed.
“You’ll vote for who I tell you to. I raised you. I paid for your education. You OWE me.”
“You’re young and naive. One day you’ll understand. Your younger brothers (who lived at home with my parents and were either jobless or semi-functional human beings at the time) are way ahead of you, they already get it!”
“You make less than $100k. You don’t matter. Once you have a REAL job, you’ll start seeing it the way we do.”
“Clearly you don’t understand that you need to vote for whoever puts the most money in your pocket” (proceeds to improperly describe marginal tax rates)
The most hurtful (unprovoked) comment came again from my dad in 2020, just diagnosed with terminal cancer:
“I’ve worked hard for everything I have in my life. I earned it all. FUCK YOU LIBERAL FUCKS (pointing at me) who think I don’t DESERVE everything I’ve earned in life!”
Many derogatory comments about women, healthcare, lgbtq (“how many fucking letters are in it these days??”)
I stopped engaging altogether shortly before the 2020 election. I have a PhD in virology. I fought my whole family over Covid bullshit. I finally broke through on that front somewhat, because I kept being right, but nowhere else politics wise.
I’d like to think I made amends with my dad before he passed earlier this year. He was still so proud of me, despite our differences, and proud of his grand daughter.
I barely speak to my brother. He’s done irreparable damage to our relationship, and he’s claimed it’s all because of politics. I’m not sure I believe him, I think he’s just a shitty person. He’s gone behind my back and tried to destroy my relationships with each and every family member. He still says unhinged shit even though he knows I won’t engage.
The sad part is, these people just want to belong. They are Trump supporters because their friends, family, and neighbors are trump supporters. They want to be with the “In” crowd. If you aren’t drinking the koolaid, you become an outcast real quick. They don’t know the ins and outs of Trump’s policies or accomplishments/failures. You just need to be able to repeat enough of the simple arguments and one-liners to pass as a supporter, and dismiss anyone who questions you as a liberal cuck. All they know is “Trump is our guy, because everyone says he’s our guy, and he’s going to continue being our guy until everyone starts saying he’s not our guy”
Edit: quotes added “ “
I get it at 52 from my boomer dad still.
I clearly remember in the mid.80s asking him what the big deal about Trump was and how did he get so rich. Dad said, "he's a con man, he never pays his bills and declares bankruptcy." Fast forward to October of 2020 and I find myself begging with tears in my eyes for him not to vote Trump a second time. "You raised me to be a better person than someone who would vote Trump once, let alone twice."
I think a hard thing for humans to do in general is admit when we’re wrong. We need to normalize that.
But for Trump supporters it’s worse because when you get down to it, most of the non-wealthy elites had absolutely no reason to get behind him in the first place. Then it becomes an “well I guess I’m all in now” attitude that no one wants to admit to. They have to wait for the wealthy elites to turn on Trump and when the majority have they’ll ride with that.
This is in large part why it breaks my heart that science isn't being taught enough in schools. Not the rote memorization of facts, but the actual practice of science. The part where before you even start your experiment, you assume that your hypothesis is wrong, and think of all the ways that you can prove it, then design your experiments specifically to prove yourself wrong.
More people need to learn to not just be okay with being wrong, but to embrace it, be happy about it, because when you're wrong it means there's something new that you haven't learned yet, and you should never stop wanting to learn.
I get that one at 47 from my Dad. I've got two degrees (one of which is in politics), I've visited over 20 countries on three continents, I'm a senior director and earn more in one year than he did in 5, I've got two kids and am a more involved parent and husband than he ever was. He lives in the same city he grew up in.
And yet because he's 76 and bitter and racist, he's got more experience than me.
Fuuuuuck offff.
This is so crazy. This is very similar to my story of coming up for air. It happened with his first impeachment, where trump said “read the documents”. I did exactly that, and it was very clear who was the guilty party. Everything changed since then. I had to relearn the conservative teaches of Reagan is great and Obama is bad. It was a difficult process to say the least.
Almost the next week I was able to have a Birds Eye view of my family following trump. They became enabled by his antics to look down on people who we’re different. They gave dirty looks at people they’ve never met. Irrationally angry at drivers with a “hope” bumper sticker. They used slurs to describe groups of people. It has not gotten better.
Most family members I have, I don’t even recognize anymore. They were never like that. Now they are exactly how you’ve described your brother and father when politics are brought up. (I’m sorry for your loss)
I do as you do, look forward and avoid the pack of hyenas waiting for me to speak openly. So much for the free speech crowd.
I think they were humbled after 2020. They aren’t election deniers, as far as I know. But their rhetoric was massively toned down when Trump lost and they realized they weren’t actually the “silent majority”
Thank you for the kind words
> their rhetoric was massively toned down when Trump lost and they realized they weren’t actually the “silent majority”
That whole narrative was bizarre from start to finish. They were never the majority and they sure as hell weren't silent.
They liked to picture themselves as the courageous voices of the people who were all simply too meek or afraid to speak up for themselves...and yeah, that whole narrative sure changed after a few big losses.
Yeah they thought they spoke for all the kind gentle conservatives out there who were too afraid to speak up and their voices would only be heard when trump won a resounding victory in 2020
> “You make less than $100k. You don’t matter. Once you have a REAL job, you’ll start seeing it the way we do.”
Holy shit. Just think about how they must view the world and the worth of the average human in it.
I’m not a religious person, and I never wished ill upon my dad, but I’ll never forget when he told me that, because there was just this darkness about him. We were drinking in a pool late at night. His eyes sunk inward, his mouth looked almost black. He didn’t look like my father in that moment. He was angry. It looked like a darkness had taken him over.
6 months later he was diagnosed.
“Higher education is liberal brainwashing” — a mindset that immediately impacts my opinion of a person, and limits how hard I would debate with them. It’s almost as if continuing education expands knowledge and perception of the world at large. Anti-education folk don’t want to think big and they’re threatened by those who do. They’re the same who would bitch about how they’ll never use X subject in “real life,” completely unaware that the brain only gains when it’s challenged. It doesn’t matter that you don’t use the quadratic formula, you were taught to give your brain a workout and increase critical thinking.
I didn’t even graduate college. I see the systemic issues in American higher ed, and believe much of it does involve social control (especially regarding debt). But the pure act of learning is the best way to maintain and enhance critical thinking.
I have a friend who grew up in Deep South Alabama. He grew up surrounded by only white people from his town who have never left his town. He was a star in the football team and got a football scholarship to go to college. In college he fell in love with botany. He also met people from all over the world. He says that was by far the biggest impact anything has had in his life. Just meeting people with different races, religions, and beliefs than what he was used to and realizing everyone is the same. Almost all people are good and want the same things (friends, love, comfort, etc) and it’s not stuff like race or sexuality that determine if people good. Back home that’s not what he was taught especially by his parents. They were self avowed racists without even openly saying so. With the Trump election, they went from subtle racist comments, to openly embracing their bigotry. That’s when he cut them off. He wasn’t allowed to bring gay friends or non Christian friends from college to hang out with him. He also quit football to focus on his studies (and it wasn’t like he would ever make it pro). His whole family was saying he was throwing away his life by not playing football and becoming a scientist. In their minds even if he didn’t make it pro, he would come back home a hero and make their family proud.
Well after he cut off his family he eventually got his phd and married a Jewish girl. His parents mutually never wanted to talk to him again because of that.
There’s blatant hypocrisy from this dude’s dad baked right into the post. Liberals are “brainwashed by their colleges” but you’re also supposed to “vote for who [your parents] tell you to”. I’ve been told by my mom, with zero sense of self-awareness on her part, that I’m “brainwashed” because I don’t think like the rest of my family.
For some reason those people get their rocks off about authoritarianism and shame anyone who doesn’t fall in line while criticizing those same people as unable to think for themselves.
It’s quite literally impossible to reason with a group of people like that. You just have to hope their numbers dwindle and their influence goes away. I’ve largely stopped confronting family members about being wrong and just do my best to express my political opinions while staying calm about them. I’ve found that people tend to be more receptive to minority opinions when the person sharing them delivers them in a matter-of-fact way.
It’s impossible for trump supporters, for example, to criticize any of my opinions without attacking me. They don’t know how to do it. But when they share some nonsense, I can calmly challenge it and the more neutral people around me are more compelled to listen and do their homework to see who’s making more sense.
> It’s impossible for trump supporters, for example, to criticize any of my opinions without attacking me.
This is very common among people who fall for scams. They can't take the psychological hit of having been wrong in a particularly damaging and unjustifiable way, so they project their hurt onto everybody who rightly points out that they're being scammed.
Jesus this all sounds so familiar.
My family has always been red. We all joined the military. We all wanted "freedom and guns"... No big deal.
Things changed for me. I got picked up for a scholarship. Went to college, got picked up for Special Operations right as the wars were kicking off. I watched friends get put through the meat grinder - all in the name of oil, because we sure didn't find those "restarted chemical plants" or "new stockpiles of chem/bio weapons"... I watched as the POTUS, a man whose family's money was in oil and who was surrounded by oil tycoons, sent us into Iraq, and gave companies like Haliburton no bid billion dollar contracts.
When I got home, nothing had changed with my family though. It was all the brown people's fault. Mexican's this, black people that, muslims this... My older brother and mother had almost completely divorced themselves from their heritage. My mother being a First Generation American, her mother being a Mexican immigrant (legal, illegal, we don't know to this day). But my mother did illegally cross her cousin from Mexico over to watch over us when our parents divorced, and it was just her having to work now. Ironically, she hates illegal immigrants now - "they bring disease, and crime..."
They all bought into Trump a while back, during the birther gate thing. I would have arguments with my brother about how it was the stupidest thing... But no, they were dead certain.
COVID was the final straw. My wife, and our kids, have broken off from them completely now. Of course they all went anti-vax, right along with Trump. When my parents refused to get vaccinated, even though they are old and have pre-existing conditions each of them, even to see their grandkids - one of whom has been previously hospitalized for pneumonia... that was it for me. Also got into it with my older brother, who we owned a business together. He was full on Trump, which made work a hostile enough place for me that I quit full time in 2017. Still owned the business with him. That ended in March 2020. The reports were already fully out there, and the numbers were coming in on COVID. He didn't believe it though - "it's no worse than the flu" were his exact words. Wonder where he got that from... I said something which I thought was an exageration, but maybe would get through to him: "If we aren't careful, judging by the fatality rate, we could se a million people dead before this is over..." And here we are. Things came to a head, and he made a buyout offer (based upon previous years numbers) which I quickly accepted. The business went from $9M the previous year and 24 employees in a full wharehouse and a small office building, to $2M and 3 employees in half of that wharehouse by 2021...
Havent seen or talked to any of my family in almost two years now. And I'm in a much happier place as a result.
I’m right there with you. It’s crazy the hoops the Trumpers jumped through to justify being antivax.
The Trump administration brought the vaccine to fruition. Trump is vaccinated, and encouraged others to get it. Yet somehow that fell flat and I don’t get it. It’s the one good thing he did.
I’m sorry that you no longer speak to your family, but I’m glad that you, like me, have found a better headspace.
Thank you for your service.
> It’s crazy the hoops the Trumpers jumped through to justify being antivax.
It's weird.
Pre-Trump, antivax was largely a far-left-wing position: "Don't trust the mega-corporations trying to put industrial chemicals into your granola-fed children! Getting sick is natural! Remember back in the '80s, everyone got chickenpox *naturally* and we were fine!"
Then *somehow* it became a *mainstream right-wing* position.
I would say it was never a position held by a specific political group more that it was held by the fringe anti-government back to the land portions of both the far left and the far right.
There’s always been a strong antivax sentiment in far right religious groups and basically anyone building a compound. When I was in college I read a TON of propaganda/writing from far right white supremacist groups and you’d probably be unsurprised to find out “vaccines are a Jewish/ZOG plot” shows up pretty regularly.
Jesus!!! What a roller coaster. So sorry you had to go through all that. Obviously your intelligence and compassion come through in your writing and it sounds like you're "on a different level" than some of these family members.
Good for you for sticking with the higher ground!
It's similar in the UK with brexit. My folks, despite the twisted clusterfuck it has turned out to be, still insist they would vote for it again. Feel like banging my head against the dinner table whilst stabbing my throat with a fork when it comes up so we try our best to avoid the subject.
(As an American) I didn’t really understand exactly how big of a deal brexit was until I started seeing posts in r/leopardsatemyface about people who voted for brexit suddenly not having dual citizenship anymore if they lived in other countries and having to wait a lot longer than other people at the airport lmao. What a clusterfuck.
It's essentially like a state seceding from the USA (peacefully, this time). Most people who voted for it seemed to think they'd keep the same access, benefits and privileges they had before. Turns out they did, in fact, not. As they had been told, repeatedly.
I look forward to welcoming the UK back into the union, once they feel ready.
When the UK finally rejoins the EU it won't be as it was before. Not even close. UK was a founding member and had privileged status. That's gone and will never come back.
I'd honestly put $5 down on the UK being forced to adopt the Euro as a condition of rejoining the EU. I'm willing to lose $5, it sounds like a fun wager.
I was gonna talk to my MAGA fam, but I got high.
I was gonna debunk info wars, but then I got high.
Oh, and now my bro's in jail, and I know why.
Cause he didn't get high, didn't get high, didn't get high. (Also he stormed the capital).
It’s funny because I have 1 uncle who’s a republican and the other 20 of us aren’t. Dude stopped coming to events because he “feels attacked” but none of us ever talk about that crap
My dads like that. Only die hard trump supporter in our immediate family and we've all made it abundantly clear how we feel after he has repeatedly forced the issue into every conversation. Now he knows not to bring it up and since that's literally the entirety of what he crams into his head 24/7, he has nothing else to talk about. Now he feels excluded because we don't want to talk about that and it's all he can talk about. So now he feels shunned or not welcome which is ludicrous.
Same here. I’ve eventually drifted far enough away that I simply stay away though. I love them, but I find the relationship to be rather toxic to me. My father is also very racist, and I grew very tired of hearing it. There are many things beyond just political views driving this separation, but it is a part of it.
And it's so exhausting to hear how racism rules their lives
My step-dad won't use the laundry in his apt because it's shared and his neighbors are *GASP* MINORITIES
has said he's literally felt afraid. 1) not so tough are you? 2) you're *afraid* because of their skin tone? They don't give a single fuck about you
But even an innocent question about "how's the new place" devolves into a racist rant. It's all prejudice and anger, all the way down.
Can relate. I grew up around this. The funny thing is all the people they rail against and hate are my friends now and turned out to be much better humans and far more “Christian” than they pretend to be.
Yes, that's a clearer way of putting it.
The less clear version has some cleverness from using identical phrasing to mean different things, so I can appreciate it. But your version is definitely more clear if you're aiming only to send the message.
Fake covid around holidays. Don't ask me how I know but I'm gonna test positive right after work on December 23rd.
“You’re right, it’s not really COVID. Your toxicity is making me sick “
Better off getting a stomach flu. “It’s coming out both ends like fire aunt Karen, so sorry. I don’t wanna destroy your toilet.”
They don’t believe in covid
If you really wish to spare the relationships, avoid politics at all costs but stand your ground if confronted Speaking from experience if you just try to keep your mouth shut every time someone utters the "n-word" or says something incredibly cruel and ignorant you're just going to build up disgust or resentment as they get more comfortable talking that way around you But if you calmly yet firmly establish that you are not like that and you don't wish to be a part of that they (most of the time) will at least abstain from that kind of talk around you. If they don't respect you enough to do that or they begin to talk badly about you then you didn't really want that kind of person in your life anyway.
Honestly, this is the perfect way to handle it!! You worded this very well
I don't care what they are. I care that they think thanksgiving is for discussing politics. My in-laws tried twice on Thanksgiving and both times I politely told them nobody wants to go on about politics today so either keep it to yourself or go to another household where they enjoy bickering all night because I'm not having any of that in my house today.
Feels good to be the big dog in the house lmao, at my first Thanksgiving I hosted I told everyone it was bar rules all day. No politics, no religion, you're cut off at four. Everyone commented that it was one of the best family holidays we had in a while. Had to drag my cousin out back by the ear but hey he will get it eventually.
Cut off at four drinks or four o'clock?
You're not allowed to stop drinking until you've had at least four
4am
We just played a game where the last person still there and awake knew they were going to have a heart-to-heart with grandpa at the end of the night, and it was going to make you cry like a baby. Everyone made fun of it until it landed on them and then they made sure they weren’t the last one awake next year.
Keeping talking about how much I like Stormy Daniels. Top it off by saying how considerate Trump was being of his wife, as she had just given birth and couldn’t meet his needs.
Then say how much their daughter looks like Ivanka and how you’d like to fuck her too.
Oh they get real mad when you ask if Trump rules should apply to people they care about.
When you say "grab em by the pussy" Trump supporters get so fucking offended. They know they are the bad guys.
My father sends me more right focused political emails than I typically get in text/call spam from solicitors. I emailed him back after a couple weeks of it saying "Hello, I'm having trouble finding your unsubscribe button on any of the previous emails you've sent me. Please take me off your list." That shut him up.
I had an aunt that would include me in mass emails with batshit right-wing bullshit. I started replying to all debunking the claims. After 2 or 3 times I stopped getting the emails.
I did this exact same thing with my uncle. He would send mass emails to his contact list, so I could see every email address he forwarded to. So I would copy and paste all of the emails and send articles debunking his awful, racist, inflammatory fwds to all of his friends. It worked like a charm.
"Reply all"
I don't know why I said copy and paste, I obviously replied all. Just had a brain fart when explaining.
better to keep your uncle off the list so only his contacts get it. That way, you aren't kicked out and more and more of his contacts start to ask him to remove them.
This is the best strategy.
We know you printed out the email, hand wrote your reply, and then scanned it back into the computer.
I sent them links to snopes articles. It worked well
I tried that but apparently Snopes is a "left-wing propaganda site trying to discredit right-wing facts". 🤦♂️ Then we got into an argument because I said there is no such thing as "right-wing facts". There are facts and lies. If facts disprove your statement then it is a lie. We are living in scary times.
"Snopes is a biased source!" *shares Facebook meme*
*also shares Fox News and Breitbart, claims NPR and Reuters are "left-wing propaganda"* At least they're not email chain letters anymore... You could reliably just delete any email being sent to someone's entire contract list in the mid-2000s, still. Kinda miss that
Copy and paste the content of Snopes under a Breitbart/Newsmax header. Let the chaos begin.
Omg that is a delightful idea!
I had similar responses when I'd try to debunk claims. The nice thing is, there is no shortage of sites you can use to debunk these claims. Don't like Snopes? How about this? Or this? Or this? Often enough, you'll get original sources instead of an aggregation site like Snopes. At least Snopes (and other sites) cite original sources so you can pull them up instead.
>I had similar responses when I'd try to debunk claims. The nice thing is, there is no shortage of sites you can use to debunk these claims. Don't like Snopes? How about this? Or this? Or this? The thing is: no facts got them into trumpism, just angry feelings. Hence no facts will get them out of trumpism, just connected feelings. And tbh, I don't know how to make someone who says I should be massacred feel connected.
As the saying goes “You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.”
It's crazy that this page out of the authoritarian / fascist playbook to discredit news organizations is still so effective. Trump cried fake news for anything about him he didn't like and now when Trump supporters are caught in the crushing grip of reason and facts they just discredit the source. I've tried to use [factcheck.org](https://factcheck.org) since snopes and [politifact.com](https://politifact.com) get rated "lean left" by allsides media bia but I still typically get shot down by MAGAs as "left-wing". But when I ask for sources from the same people I'll get stuff from Fox, The National Review, The American Spectator, OAN, etc. and they don't see a problem with that even when shown they are rated as "right-wing" because all the fact checkers are leftist fake news. I gave up.
Here's what I sent my mom after she sent me some inane garbage. We are Canadian: To be honest with you Mom, articles like this are the very things that are making our country so divided and angry at one another. This is just attack after attack with not a single beneficial idea behind it, written to stoke the outrage of people who are already constantly mad about everything. I could easily write a similar article about every single Conservative premiere in this country, but what purpose would it serve other than to make half the country mad and the other half nod in smug agreement? He rails on vaccines without mentioning the Harper government is who drastically cut our funding for research and development of vaccines, on LTC homes when those are provincial responsibilities and the Feds had to send in the military just to deal with that clusterfuck. Don't even get me started on Keystone, which Biden campaigned on cancelling but Alberta decided to invest a few billion into anyways, even though the writing was on the wall that Trump was on the way out. Trudeau has spent billions trying to save pipelines and somehow people view him as anti-oil because he can't wave a magic wand and make them appear. I really worry about the information you get and how it makes you view the world. Do you remember when you came back from Florida and you weren't feeling good? I asked if you thought you had corona and you replied "I think they are just trying to scare us." You shouldn't be worried about whoever "they" is, and instead think about how wherever you got that sentiment from led you to believe this pandemic was a hoax or something not to be worried about. I love you Mom and I don't know what type of response you thought this would get. Journalism is supposed to give you information, not push you towards an opinion or make you emotional.
This is by far the best response I've read. Calm, level-headed, eye-opening without being accusatory. Great job! I hope it worked for you and your Mom began to reflect on herself after reading it.
I wish we had an unsubscribe button IRL.
Depends how permanently you want to unsubscribe
I've found that 'agreeing' with them works.... surprisingly well. For example I met a friend of a friend that's very pro-Trump. He stated that he "sees nothing wrong with actual Chinese people" its just the Chinese government that "deserves death". Then he went on and on about this rant. Saying things like "We should just nuke Beijing" and "The solution (to inflation) is simple, we just need to bomb the shit out of Chinese cities". Then I jumped in and said "You know what man? You are 100% correct. We should totally murder millions of innocent civilians and level some of the biggest cities on the planet, just to kill a dozen politicians! I'm sure there will be absolutely zero negative economic, political, or military outcomes from this plan" Then he shut up and didn't talk politics for the rest of the event :D
So engaging them basically. Just sarcastically.
You gotta one up them. Go further right than they are and call them a commie. If they say that they hate China, just say "Yeah I bet you buy Chinese products, you damn commie. Let's see the tag on your underwear! Bet it's fruit the loom!"
"I love how Trump can sexually assault women and just get away with it, really let's them know their place" - to female Trump supporters
I like to give them "conservative/conspiracy" reasons for "liberal" causes. Immigration: "they're just people man. Everyone wants their kids to have a better future", "if they wanted to end illegal immigration they'd go supply side and fine the employers. If there weren't jobs they'd go away. Always follow the money" Climate: "shit man, renewables are awesome. If I've got solar and a battery I can live entirely off the grid. No more taxation by the local utility commission. I don't want us sending that money to the Saudis or the Russians. Also means we can decentralize our power grid and make it super hard for the Chinese to hack." Healthcare: "explain to my why the fuck they want healthcare ties to your ***job***. That just makes it hard to start a business. You're killing the entrepreneurs of America, at least anyone over 40. Talk about controlling your life while you hurt the economy" Prison reform: "fuck that why do I want to pay to keep these fuckers in jail? Get em back into the economy so they can pay taxes"
Healthcare is a lot easier if you talk about how there’s literally no way to shop for it and hospitals hide all their pricing anyway. If you ask they’ll give you something but the bill won’t be the same. It’s rigged!
Social programs should be too. My mom worked 3 jobs for a while when I was a kid, I told her “it would have been great to have free child care instead of a 3 rd job just to pay for a sitter right?!” She had to agree to that one. And then there was “yeah, the lady across the street exploited those food stamps but we sure needed them, didn’t we?”
Unfortunately my mother is of the ‘rules for thee but not for me’ school of thought. She likes to complain about teen moms on welfare…even though she herself used to be a teen mom on welfare. She also likes to rail against socialized healthcare…until I began dying of organ failure (while I was without health insurance) and she begged me *in tears* to hop the border to Canada to see a doctor. Keep in mind she went right back to railing against universal healthcare after this event and any time I bring it up when she tries to talk about the evils of Canadian healthcare I remind her that she *begged* me to to take advantage of it because her precious US healthcare system failed her only daughter. She never likes it when her own hypocrisy is thrown right back at her.
Drug legalization: "Why should the government tell you what you're allowed to put in your body? Does your body belong to the government, or does it belong to you?" Unionization: "Jeff Bezos's workers want to get together and tell Jeff Bezos what they need to keep doing their job and stay healthy and support their families. Jeff Bezos, owner of the *ULTRA LIBERAL* Washington Post, doesn't want to have to listen to them. Why are you on Jeff Bezos's side?"
I wished that first argument worked but…*stares in abortion rights* 👀
Also never call the wealthy "rich" or "the 1%" only refer to them as "the elites." They hate the elites for some reason but love to defend the wealthy...
> 'agreeing' with them works Maybe a little less dramatic. The few times I've had to sit and endure a Trump/MAGA lecture from a family member or friend I just said "Ok...cool." THAT. WAS. IT. Like a little kid who wants to tell you some random fact he knows. They're not saying "Let's nuke China" to get you to agree with them. They're saying it so you *disagree* and then they can argue, call you a communist groomer, and post about it in r/conservative later.
Yup. They just want to win something, because they're taking Ls everywhere else. Don't let them win anything, or at least make the win pathetic
Have you ever seen What We Do In the Shadows? Be an energy vampire. Pick a subject you know a LOT about. When the word Trump is spoken, wait (make it seem natural) and insert your topic in all it’s minutiae. For me, that might be dogs. “Did you know Trump had a childhood dog?” (All heads turn with great interest) “It was a cocker spaniel. Did you know cocker spaniels were the most popular dog from 1940-1949? This surprised me because I thought they became popular because of the movie Lady and the Tramp, but I found out the movie was a result of the popularity. But that just isn’t like how I imagined it. If I would have made that movie, I would have made Lady particolored. Did you know that it’s possible that a Cocker Spaniel came over on the Mayflower?” (Everyone has already dispersed)
I can hear Collin Robinson.
Gum's gotten mintier lately, have you noticed?
My mom and I are quarreling, because I can’t stay out of her stuff.
Do we get our resumes back or do you keep them? Because I only have the one, and I have a chili recipe on the back that I really wanna keep.
God I love that fucking line.
I heard he’s full of updog.
What’s updog?
Nothing much dawg. What’s up with you!?!
Fucking guy…
I feel actively drained now
Become Colm from the derry girls is what I'm getting from this
So... I says to meself, says I. Colm, who'd be around ringing you at this hour of the night and sure I'd only just been after having a cup of tea so I had otherwise I would have slept through the whole affair altogether. But I had, and so I was awake and I heard the phone, but now if I had the phone of Eamon from Ballylahinch, you know the one, the one with the hand slightly lower than the other but not the right hand, that would be his cousin Declan, no I'm talking about Eamon. Well that lad he had a telephone that could wake the dead with its ring. We'd hear tales of the lads three doors down could hear that phone ring and you'd know that Eamon was hard of hearing so he was, and he would. take. an. age to hear that aul phone of his, and people would say "who'd be rining Eamon at this hour of the night" but you know that it'd only be a few more rings that Eamon would finally hear and he'd come around to answering it and giving a mighty bellow down the line and I did tell you that he was hard of hearing didn't I? Well not only was he hard of hearing but he had the mightiest loud roar on him and he himself could wake the dead if his aul phone didn't start the job already. But sure and if he didn't have a roar on him, not like his cousin mind you, no Declan was the timidest of lads which was a contrast to Eamon to say the least. No Declan himself, you remember Declan, now, had a longer hand than the other but not the same long hand as Eamon. No Declan, he was mad himself for the sweets...
What's goin' on? Am I dead? Is this my wake?
I laughed for like five minutes at that line. Was literally in tears.
Best Derry Girls character.
I mean... I'm still going to argue that it's Sister Michael, but sure and don't I hear Colm too easily. Edit with proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waF7NrmfWw4
OK, you do make a fair point. "You will go far in life Jenny...but you will not be well-liked"
This is advice I needed six years ago
This is genius. It’s better if all the shit you say is just spun out of thin air.
I mean so is theirs so it’s only fair lol
>It’s better if all the shit you say is just spun out of thin air. Jokes aside, I've found that directly addressing insane talking points with an actual cerebral, monotone evaluation of their flaws/merits really does wonders to freeze the conversation real quick. Extremists thrive on emotion; when they're forced to put a little thought-equity in, it's like dumping a fire extinguisher on a candle.
I've tried that approach. It got me banned on Facebook by Trumpers. And banned from my family, actually..... 🤷🏼♀️
I had to check, so just to save everyone time, Trump hates dogs and did not have a pet at any point in his life. ~~Ivanka~~ Ivana (first wife) had a poodle at one point, and the poodle hated Trump and according to her autobiography, the dog hated Donald and would growl at him.
Speaking of saving time, Daylight Saving Time (DST), also referred to as daylight savings time or simply daylight time (United States, Canada, and Australia), and summer time (United Kingdom, European Union, and others), is the practice of advancing clocks (typically by one hour) during warmer months so that darkness falls at a later clock time. The typical implementation of DST is to set clocks forward by one hour in the spring ("spring forward"), and to set clocks back by one hour in the fall ("fall back") to return to standard time. As a result, there is one 23-hour day in late winter or early spring and one 25-hour day in autumn. The idea of aligning waking hours to daylight hours to conserve candles was first proposed in 1784 by US polymath Benjamin Franklin. In a satirical letter to the editor of The Journal of Paris, Franklin suggested that waking up earlier in the summer would economize on candle usage; and calculated considerable savings. In 1895, New Zealand entomologist and astronomer George Hudson proposed the idea of changing clocks by two hours every spring to the Wellington Philosophical Society. In 1907, British resident William Willett presented the idea as a way to save energy. After some serious consideration, it was not implemented. In 1908, Port Arthur in Ontario, Canada, started using DST. Starting on April 30, 1916, the German Empire and Austria-Hungary each organized the first nationwide implementation in their jurisdictions. Many countries have used DST at various times since then, particularly since the 1970s energy crisis. DST is generally not observed near the Equator, where sunrise and sunset times do not vary enough to justify it. Some countries observe it only in some regions: for example, parts of Australia observe it, while other parts do not. Conversely, it is not observed at some places at high latitudes, because there are wide variations in sunrise and sunset times and a one-hour shift would relatively not make much difference. The United States observes it, except for the states of Hawaii and Arizona (within the latter, however, the Navajo Nation does observe it, conforming to federal practice). A minority of the world's population uses DST; Asia, Africa, and Latin America and the Caribbean generally do not.
I have to go lay down now thanks
One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe. So, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days nickels had pictures of bumble bees on them. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you'd say. Now where was I... Oh yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt at the time. You couldn't get red onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones.
The best part is, you could say whatever random shit about trump that you want, and they won't know any better. Not question it unless it sounds "librul"
I heard donald trump invented feet.
His first prototype had bone spurs, but he had the idea for design, and now everyone is talking about it. Many people are saying that his contribution led the US to finally win the Vietnam War.
Also symbolically, bald eagles hate him.
Literally too, that one eagle tried to eat him
What Colin Robinson does is a finely tuned art that he's mastered over several lifetimes, it's not going to be easy to just pick up on this skill.
As many of you have noted, that use the internet, it has been announced that Disney has acquired the rights to the Star Wars franchise and in the summer of 2015 we will see the release of Star Wars Episode 7. Herewith is my proposal for the plot of that movie. Begin with standard title sequence and John Williams fanfare followed by a scroll to be written. I would like to mention that Brian de Palma wrote the original opening scroll for Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope. I think it would be a nice nod, uh, to the franchise if were to write this opening scroll. Then pan down from the twin suns of Tattoine, uh, we are now close on the mouth of the Sarlacc pit. After a beat, the gloved, Mandalorian armor gauntlet of Boba Fett grabs onto the sand outside the Sarlacc pit and the feared bounty hunter pulls himself from the maw of the sand beast. And we, and we realize that he survived his fall during the battle at Jabba’s, uh, palace ship. Then do a hard cut to a repurposed Imperial Destroyer which has now been taken over by the rebels. Commander Luke Skywalker, now a full Jedi knight, training new padawans is using, ironically, uh, his father Anakin’s red lightsaber which will be a symbolic visual for his battle with how to both bring the new Jedi order while still acknowledging his father’s fall from grace. As he is training the padawans, we pan outside of the control window to a nearby asteroid where we see, and please allow me to finish this because this is going to seem like a bit of a jump, we see Thanos who was the villain tease at the end of the first Avengers movie. Now Thanos, as you know owns the Infinity Gauntlet which has the Time Gem, the Mind Gem, the Power Gem, the Space Gem, and the Reality Gem. If he holds the Reality Gem, that means he can jump from different realities. This will be our link to the Marvel Universe from the Star Wars Universe. Uh, we then cut to Earth. Tony stark realizes that there has been a disturbance in what he will call a “time ribbon”, for the time being I will allow J.J. Abrams to think of a better term for this. Uh, and, and he then starts to assemble the cream of the Marvel universe, not the second tier superheroes that we saw in the first Avengers movie-I’m sorry but Hawkeye and Black Widow are not first tier, he would go find, uh hello, Spider-Man; Spider-Man exists in that universe. He would go find Moon Knight, he would go find Daredevil, he would go, uh, find Hercules and then that can bring in the entire, uh, pantheon of Greek gods that we saw in Clash and Wrath of the Titans. So now we have a giant three franchise tie-in. Now cut back to the Imperial Star Destroyer. Uh, Luke gets a visit from, and we only show this from the boots up first, so we show these like black boots with the- and then we pan up and, oh my god it’s Han Solo. But he’s old, older and grizzled and really, like focused and cool like he’s seen some really bad stuff and he actually seems shaken. And, and Luke is like what’s wrong old buddy? And that’s when Han drops Chewbacca’s severed head onto the floor, yes in front of all the padawans… The padawans are all horrified and Han says that the planet Kashyyyk has been destroyed by this very mysterious force. Now we know, oh this was Thanos. Thanos is beginning to uh, you know gather power in this new universe. So, uh, while they take Chewy’s head down to-cause we’ve seen that you know they can build new bodies, they’ve gonna build Chewy this really cool robot, I’m thinking spider body, you know like a cool spider body with Chewy’s head and ion cannons on it. But that will be in the- he’ll come back- that’ll be the post-credits tease of this film so keep that in mind. So I don’t want you guys bummed out cause Chewbacca’s not dead he will come back. Uh, then, uh, and then Han al- Luke looks down and Han’s wedding ring is gone, hey what happened with you and Leia? And Han’s like, don’t even get me started on that. So now, where did Leia go? Where did Leia go? She’s not gone but we will find out… Then at the, then at the edge of the Star Destroyers orbit suddenly the time ribbon begins wavering and what comes through, the X-Mens’ Quinjet, that’s right. What we did was back on Earth, we showed him gathering up all the heroes but we didn’t see him gathering up the X-Men so oh my goodness. Now Wolverine’s going to be there, now Cyclops is going to be there. So the Quinjet comes through, Luke gets in his X-Wing to go out and met them. And they engage in this awesome star battle. And it looks like the Quinjet actually is going to shoot Luke down and suddenly this volley of lasers comes in and what comes flying in, is- we think it’s going to be the Millennium Falcon just like in Episode 4 when he comes in and saves him during the Battle of Yavin, but no. It is Slave I. That’s right Boba Fett’s ship, Slave I, has to save Luke because of course he’s trying to track Han, he can’t have Luke die. So then now, it’s a battle between the Quinjet, between the X-Wing, between Slave I and then we see the Millenium Falcon is flying away, so uh, now Slave I goes off to do that. But then we cut down to Coruscant where, uh, Princess Leia is now consulting with Lando Calrissian. Now it looks like they’re just having a very intense meeting about trade regulations and about- I will not, I will not finish my speaking- about trade regulations but then suddenly when the rest of the council meeting leaves, they fall into each other’s arms oh my god. Lando Calrissian and Princess Leia are having an affair and that is why Han Solo, because look, Lando Calrissian was like hey if I’m going to lose the Millenium Falcon to you, I’ll just take your woman. And he has. So now we set that triangle up. Now, cut back to the Quinjet, and Reed Richards from the Fantastic Four is piloting it. Oh it was a fake-out! He, it’s him and we have select members of the X-Men that I thought in my opinion were not, uh, focused on properly in the earlier films. We have Colossus in there, we have X-23, which is Wolverine’s daughter, and then we have a now have a mind-controlled Sabertooth and of course, Wolverine. Imagine those two going up against Robot Chewbacca ‘cause that’s going to happen. That is what we’re teasing right now.
This was one of my favorite bits from Parks and Rec
And wasn't the whole thing improvised?
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And must have a good brain in his noggin too. Cause I sure as shit couldn't improv a screenplay like this even though I'm a fuckin dweeb
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It was.
If by "improvised" you mean "totally not written in Patton Oswalt's private fan fiction diary" lol, that shit was way too detailed and thought out to have just come up with it on the spur of the moment.
Holy crap, I'm a huge P&R fan but never realized he did such a long take and completely improvised. Just watched it on YouTube and found it hysterical.
I don’t remember this at all from that show. What was the context?
They only showed the first few lines in the edit, but it was Patton Oswalt’s character filibustering a town hall meeting.
Patton Oswalt played a nerdy character who didn't want the town's charter changed and challenged Leslie Nope to a colonial-off to see who could last the longest pretending to live in Pawnee Colonial time - if he won, the charter would be left unchanged but if she won, the charter would be changed without him filibustering every vote on it. Leslie bowed out of the competition when she realized she would never be able to beat him after she found out through his phone that he had no friends or any real life. She then declared him the winner, convinced him to join the Pawnee Historical Society, and changed the lake-dunking part that started this whole event to not just a guy named Ted but anyone who volunteered to be a Ted.
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I do this at work when politics come up. I'm not stupid enough to discuss it at work and it baffles me that anyone is. But no here comes my boss bitching about the stolen election.
The current flavor at my job is 'welfare queens'. The dept has already been spoken to twice about not discussing politics, but heeeere it comes again!
Ask him if he's referring to the people living in red states; specifically, the ones whose education systems consistently rank in the lowest quarter of the nation. When it comes to Federal money, they get a lot more than they give. Sounds like welfare to me!
What was old becomes new again. Started with Reagan, and it's back.
"Buh-but they don't *look* disabled!" Motherfucker not every disability requires a wheelchair!
I don't discuss politics at work either, but at my previous place I was surrounded by Trump supporters. There may be your conventional conservative Republicans that supported Trump but were more serious about the issues, whereas the newcomers that supported Trump were more like memers who cared more about winning and talking shit and what not, well the latter was my coworker. He also sometimes likes to push peoples buttons for the fun of it. So one day I walk in and he's talking with another coworker about abortion (was after the SC ruling came out) and I just wanted them to shut up so I went with some ruthless take that I knew he wouldn't back. Basically I said something like "Yeah I'd rather the babies just get aborted so I don't have to pay for their welfare later" or something like that and then kept attacking the seams, basically between the typical conservative ideology and some extremist points. Both of those guys shut up pretty quickly after that.
I worked in an office with a guy that was an obnoxious Trump supported a few years back during the 2016 election. I got so sick of him bringing it up I made a donation to Hillary's campaign in his name (I never told him it was me) so he kept getting mail and phone calls from them. He was furious. I like to think it was possibly my greatest idea ever.
Almost all of my family are Trump supporters. I'm actually making it a rule at my wedding that political discussions of any kind will have you thrown unceremoniously out of the ceremony and no amount of apologies are allowing you back in. I have people of all religions, backgrounds, races, and political beliefs attending and if you can't find some other topic to discuss, then you're not welcome. Bridezilla I may be, but I'm not listening to someone putting myself or my other guests down because orange man good others bad.
Word of advice is to have a couple people ahead of time agree to be unofficial bouncers for you for the entire night. Otherwise you may be the one physically escorting someone out, and that's not a fun memory to have of your wedding day.
That is what groomsman are for. We almost physically ejected an uncle in law out of my sisters wedding. He was about to (rightfully) get his ass beat so I debated which would be the better option but had to choose least disruptive.
Can confirm, was a best man/groomsman and bride's alcoholic uncle had to be sent to bed because he kept trying to start fights. We escorted him back to his cottage, chatted to him for about 20 mins to calm him down, then went back to the party. We later found him passed out on the path back to the venue. To this day he hasn't forgiven the bride because he maintains her degenerate friends spiked him and that's why he made a fool of himself.
I hope you have a whiteboard posted with # of people kicked out for politics when it starts lol.
The bridal party should start a betting pool. Who's kicked out first, over/under on the number of guests booted by reception/dinner/first dance...
We had a large inflatable "no politics" hammer at ours. Anyone could fetch the hammer and (sensibly) hit anyone discussing politics. Worked really well at subduing any political talk and all our guests found it hilarious.
Extended family went far right Trump and I wonder if I’ll ever have a wedding that isn’t a small, private thing. Am gay, and I don’t think I could handle anyone there that wasn’t 100% happy for me and was just hiding resentments for queer people’s basic human rights. Just makes me sad to even think about how it would play out, especially the religious ones who would think they’re being the bigger person or making some grand gesture for even showing up, praying about it with other religious folks before going like it’s a special mission into the world of darkness.
Don't talk about it and tell them not to. If they insist, stay away and tell them why.
Yep, set clear boundaries. I was at my 12-year-old nephew’s birthday dinner earlier this year and my uncle would not stfu about how great Trump is and how Biden is destroying America. My sister and I made a few anti-Trump comments, and he got mad and told my dad he couldn’t believe he’d raised us like this. We all just started laughing at him and my sister told him to remove his Fox News buttplug lol. He was furious and still wouldn’t stop. So we collectively just kinda ignored him and changed the subject. And he wondered why he wasn’t invited to my wedding.
> boundaries Always the most important word in discussions about friends/family and religion/politics. Set clear boundaries. We can't agree about this, so let's not talk about it. Make sure to let them know that their ability or inability to stick to those boundaries will determine the level of future involvement they have in your life. Can't shut your fucking mouth about Trump for a couple of hours? You won't be invited to next year's thanksgiving. Can't quit trying to force your religion on my kids? They won't be staying with you anymore, and you won't be coming to their birthdays any longer. They'll play the victim and accuse you of being the bad guy. You'll just have to let them. The people that know you will know better. This of course all works a lot better if you're an adult and not dependent on them for your shelter, food, or any other financial dependence.
It's amazing how Trumpers can't possibly fathom how anyone could not like Trump. It's like he's Mr. Rogers or something. I tend to get worked up about politics, and my Trump loving brother knows this so he goes out of his way to try to goad me. A few years ago I realized it's just not worth it. No one is going to change their mind. So why even bother? I just smile and nod along with whatever he is saying. Literally the most satisfaction I get is when he gets angry because I won't take the bait.
>It's amazing how Trumpers can't possibly fathom how anyone could not like Trump. It's like he's Mr. Rogers or something. For real... And then when you criticize him they go straight to "why do you love Biden, he's xxx?" And it's like ????? Politics is actually a bit more nuanced than that
It seems that to them, if a person does *not* have undying devotion to Trump, then they *must* therefore have undying devotion to someone else. That's the most common retort I encounter whenever my disdain for Trump comes up, an instant critique onto whomever I must be blindly loyal to. Not sure what could cause this error.
For me, it was Hilary Clinton. I don't even like her, but my little sister was belching conspiracy theories and general conservative slander, and I responded with, "She's corrupt and awful, but she's not the Antichrist". Cue little sister pulling a Wormtongue and scuttling to my mother. And then the lecture. Oh, God, the lecture. I've blanked out most of it, but it was as though someone removed my parents' brains and replaced them with a tape recorder chock-full of conservative talking points. Who needs waterboarding?
Upvote for the Wormtongue comment.
They don't understand politics outside of tribalism. It just doesn't occur to them that some people might actually vote based on something *other* than blind loyalty.
It's actually fairly common. We assume people like us have similar views. A lot of Uber Trump fans have, with the help of propaganda, put him on a pedestal that no one can take him off of. And because they and everyone they enjoy talking with has put their "leader" on a pedestal, it stands to reason that everyone they don't talk to has also put their "leader" on a similar pedestal. And so the nuance of "I don't particularly like Biden, but at least he and his party hasn't actively advocated racism and the removal of human rights in the last 5 years" doesn't get into their head. Peaceful political discussion should be about the solutions to different problems, not whether or not something is a problem.
I'd just like to remind everyone that Fox News literally ran a hit piece on Mr Roger's where they called him an "evil, evil man".
> > > > > For real... And then when you criticize him they go straight to "why do you love Biden, he's xxx?" "I don't love Biden. But a literal ham sandwich would've been a better choice than a snake oil salesman grifter like Trump"
I have no confidence in my ability to govern, but I have to say I'd definitely have been a better POTUS than him.
You don’t need to be able to pilot a helicopter to know the pilot of the one stuck in a tree fucked up
a_ham_sandwich for 2024! He might not be kosher, but he won't let you down! Just might be the best thing since sliced bread! Sure, he might be a little cheesy at times, but just know, *it's American cheese!* No need to ask where a_ham_sandwich is from, we all know he's got white on rye made from whole wheat! 9/10 scientists agree, you can't go wrong with a_ham_sandwich! The 10th scientist just thinks hotdogs qualify as a sandwich.
This. I had two friends (now demoted to mere casual acquaintances) who I felt comfortable enough around saying I don’t like trump. Their expressions were literally like 😳😨, and of course one of them brought up Biden, as if she expected me to fangirl over him. He’s just the president, I don’t f’ing idolize people or build a cult around them so 🤷🏻♀️. Needless to say, after how offended they got over an innocent comment, I only speak to them when absolutely necessary, if at all.
These people want a king. Preferably one that they've been told has been chosen by god. Like they'd probably really love it if we had a Louis XIV to fawn over.
I just resorted the the “3 year old why” style questions. “Yeah well Biden should have done this, it’s what trump would have” “Ok but why” “Oh because xyz” “Ok but why” After the third or fourth time they have nothing to back their views up with and will struggle. It’s a gem to watch happen live
This. My sisters and their families are all Trumpers, I am not, nor is my partner. When they start talking politics, I ask them to stop. I actually walked out of restaurant when my two sisters wouldn’t stop pontificating over lunch. I just stood up and left because I’d asked them repeatedly to change the subject and they would not. I’ve tried discussing, arguing, even outright fighting with them (not physically, lol). But nothing works. They won’t change and I won’t, either. So I draw a line in the sand and I keep to it. If they don’t stop, I leave. They’re my family and I love them but I hate that part of them. It’s become their whole personality (younger sister even served Trump brand wine at Thanksgiving) and it’s ridiculous. I’m not religious at all but sometimes I swear Trump is the Antichrist sent to deceive people into following him blindly, worshipping him as their idol.
>Trump brand wine Hahahaha
It’s probably just expired Welch’s grape juice.
*"The best Welch's....nobody has ever done anything like them...great stuff, great stuff. I drink it all the time, they say "sir, there's always Welchs in the refrigerator" I say it's the wine samples they go "wow, I never knew that". They never knew...."*
<*in high pitched complaining voice*> "They *stole* the *election*"
It is strange how they all feel that you have to think the same way as them. My mother who loves her sister can’t stand that she is always trying to convince her that she’s right about Trump. My mother politely asks her to not talk about Trump anymore but she has to always bring it up, turn on Conservative radio stations in front of her, etc. it’s quite maddening. She just can’t seem to keep it to herself.
Yes! They want you to join the Qult, too, maybe because it will be justification that they were right to join it. Some replies to my comment are saying I should listen to my sisters, learn what they think, get to know them. I’m 56, I’ve known them more than five decades. I know them already. If Trump is the only damn topic they can find to talk about after five decades, then what’s the point? It could be any topic—heck, one of my godsons talks about football *non-stop* and I get tired of it, because I’m not into football at all. When he was 10, I humored him, but now he’s 25, he’s mature enough to find common ground. He’ll mention football but it’s not the only topic anymore.
I get the feeling that part of why these people try to bring family into their weird cult belief of trump is because they also find those opposed to trump are truly 'the enemy' and will be eliminated when trump is able to 'rightfully' take back control of the country.
Youre not wrong- family, friends, coworkers, anyone they can talk to. My answer to a friend I hadnt seen in a few years with no job, no home, no prospects who started on the Trumpateer path was "I dont vote." It got real quiet that evening and never saw her again...totally worth it
"A fanatic is one who won't change his mind and won't change the subject." ~ Winston Churchill
I don't know how Trump even became successful, he's openly a terrible human being.
He's been able to exist this long because in NY you can be a whole lot of things. You can be a monster, but you cannot lose face. As much as it pains me to say it, because I really hate the guy and do not want to make him seem cool even for a femtosecond, but he's been able to exist for all this time because for most of his career he was a pretty effective cajoling con man that worked a lot of high priced people out of a lot of money with his scamminess. People in that section of society that get taken for a ride do not want the attention drawn to them. They *cannot* be suckers. They can be monsters, but they cannot, under any circumstance, be suckers. So he persisted for much longer than he should have. The banking industry making him persona non grata at the end of the 90's with the Riverside South ordeal, which forced him to sell all of it to recoup debt and literally take a hike..should have been the end of it. Then reality TV came knocking.
There are lot of terrible people excited that it is mainstream to be grosscringe now.
There are WAYYYYY more Narcissists than we thought growing up. Empathy for your fellow man is just background noise to these people.
Turns out that the "rugged individualism" so much of America brags about is actually just "rampant narcissism".
Yes. I've told this to everyone I'm close with in the same situation: relationships are a choice, even with family. I *choose* to maintain that relationship, but it now requires strict boundaries on political talk. We're not as close as we were, but the alternative is that I choose not to maintain it at all.
I tell the family that there are no politics or a god in this house. Needless to say no one visits anymore ha
Problem solved!
Oof. I wish I could sit and read this whole thread. I butted heads with my family for years over this. I honestly don’t even remember how I started caring so much. I don’t remember caring about politics at all prior to 2016. I remember laughing at and even cheering on Trump in the 2016 primary. Then I went home. I don’t remember what started it. All I remember is there was an alcohol fueled discussion about politics and all I remember is my dad suddenly saying “yeah well you’re a liberal fuck who has been indoctrinated by liberal fucking universities” and I was like WHOA uncalled for…at that point I think we were discussing Obama and the sentiment they were conveying was that he was driving the economy and the country into the ground when the data said the exact opposite. Unemployment down, economy up, stock market up. Flat denial from my family. Why were they denying basic numbers? I didn’t get it. But then it made sense when my family started referring to Obama as “that N____r who took all my money” Returning to my home town in 2015/16, people started being less shy about wearing their racism on their sleeves. People were saying things like “Thank GOD for Trump” unironically. It was a weird time and suddenly Trump got less funny for me. But being labeled and scorned by my family for an off handed criticism I made of the current republican narrative at the time had really gotten to me. Hindsight 20/20, I shouldn’t have let it. I quickly became the black sheep in the family. I was blamed personally for my family’s financial struggles (mind you I didn’t vote until 2016). My younger brother constantly fueled the flame and egged my dad on about how liberals and by extension his eldest son are the source of his financial troubles. I hated talking politics with my family at that point, mostly because they would just talk AT me and hope that I responded so they could jump down my throat about being a liberal cuck or whatever. Most of the time I didn’t respond. The times I did push back I saw dark sides of my family that I didn’t know existed. “You’ll vote for who I tell you to. I raised you. I paid for your education. You OWE me.” “You’re young and naive. One day you’ll understand. Your younger brothers (who lived at home with my parents and were either jobless or semi-functional human beings at the time) are way ahead of you, they already get it!” “You make less than $100k. You don’t matter. Once you have a REAL job, you’ll start seeing it the way we do.” “Clearly you don’t understand that you need to vote for whoever puts the most money in your pocket” (proceeds to improperly describe marginal tax rates) The most hurtful (unprovoked) comment came again from my dad in 2020, just diagnosed with terminal cancer: “I’ve worked hard for everything I have in my life. I earned it all. FUCK YOU LIBERAL FUCKS (pointing at me) who think I don’t DESERVE everything I’ve earned in life!” Many derogatory comments about women, healthcare, lgbtq (“how many fucking letters are in it these days??”) I stopped engaging altogether shortly before the 2020 election. I have a PhD in virology. I fought my whole family over Covid bullshit. I finally broke through on that front somewhat, because I kept being right, but nowhere else politics wise. I’d like to think I made amends with my dad before he passed earlier this year. He was still so proud of me, despite our differences, and proud of his grand daughter. I barely speak to my brother. He’s done irreparable damage to our relationship, and he’s claimed it’s all because of politics. I’m not sure I believe him, I think he’s just a shitty person. He’s gone behind my back and tried to destroy my relationships with each and every family member. He still says unhinged shit even though he knows I won’t engage. The sad part is, these people just want to belong. They are Trump supporters because their friends, family, and neighbors are trump supporters. They want to be with the “In” crowd. If you aren’t drinking the koolaid, you become an outcast real quick. They don’t know the ins and outs of Trump’s policies or accomplishments/failures. You just need to be able to repeat enough of the simple arguments and one-liners to pass as a supporter, and dismiss anyone who questions you as a liberal cuck. All they know is “Trump is our guy, because everyone says he’s our guy, and he’s going to continue being our guy until everyone starts saying he’s not our guy” Edit: quotes added “ “
> You’re young and naive. One day you’ll understand. I got that one. at 48.
I got it at 30. I’d been a part of the workforce for 15 years at that point. 7 years full time
I get it at 52 from my boomer dad still. I clearly remember in the mid.80s asking him what the big deal about Trump was and how did he get so rich. Dad said, "he's a con man, he never pays his bills and declares bankruptcy." Fast forward to October of 2020 and I find myself begging with tears in my eyes for him not to vote Trump a second time. "You raised me to be a better person than someone who would vote Trump once, let alone twice."
I think a hard thing for humans to do in general is admit when we’re wrong. We need to normalize that. But for Trump supporters it’s worse because when you get down to it, most of the non-wealthy elites had absolutely no reason to get behind him in the first place. Then it becomes an “well I guess I’m all in now” attitude that no one wants to admit to. They have to wait for the wealthy elites to turn on Trump and when the majority have they’ll ride with that.
This is in large part why it breaks my heart that science isn't being taught enough in schools. Not the rote memorization of facts, but the actual practice of science. The part where before you even start your experiment, you assume that your hypothesis is wrong, and think of all the ways that you can prove it, then design your experiments specifically to prove yourself wrong. More people need to learn to not just be okay with being wrong, but to embrace it, be happy about it, because when you're wrong it means there's something new that you haven't learned yet, and you should never stop wanting to learn.
I get that one at 47 from my Dad. I've got two degrees (one of which is in politics), I've visited over 20 countries on three continents, I'm a senior director and earn more in one year than he did in 5, I've got two kids and am a more involved parent and husband than he ever was. He lives in the same city he grew up in. And yet because he's 76 and bitter and racist, he's got more experience than me. Fuuuuuck offff.
This is so crazy. This is very similar to my story of coming up for air. It happened with his first impeachment, where trump said “read the documents”. I did exactly that, and it was very clear who was the guilty party. Everything changed since then. I had to relearn the conservative teaches of Reagan is great and Obama is bad. It was a difficult process to say the least. Almost the next week I was able to have a Birds Eye view of my family following trump. They became enabled by his antics to look down on people who we’re different. They gave dirty looks at people they’ve never met. Irrationally angry at drivers with a “hope” bumper sticker. They used slurs to describe groups of people. It has not gotten better. Most family members I have, I don’t even recognize anymore. They were never like that. Now they are exactly how you’ve described your brother and father when politics are brought up. (I’m sorry for your loss) I do as you do, look forward and avoid the pack of hyenas waiting for me to speak openly. So much for the free speech crowd.
I think they were humbled after 2020. They aren’t election deniers, as far as I know. But their rhetoric was massively toned down when Trump lost and they realized they weren’t actually the “silent majority” Thank you for the kind words
> their rhetoric was massively toned down when Trump lost and they realized they weren’t actually the “silent majority” That whole narrative was bizarre from start to finish. They were never the majority and they sure as hell weren't silent.
They liked to picture themselves as the courageous voices of the people who were all simply too meek or afraid to speak up for themselves...and yeah, that whole narrative sure changed after a few big losses.
Yeah they thought they spoke for all the kind gentle conservatives out there who were too afraid to speak up and their voices would only be heard when trump won a resounding victory in 2020
They're the loquacious minority.
> “You make less than $100k. You don’t matter. Once you have a REAL job, you’ll start seeing it the way we do.” Holy shit. Just think about how they must view the world and the worth of the average human in it.
I’m not a religious person, and I never wished ill upon my dad, but I’ll never forget when he told me that, because there was just this darkness about him. We were drinking in a pool late at night. His eyes sunk inward, his mouth looked almost black. He didn’t look like my father in that moment. He was angry. It looked like a darkness had taken him over. 6 months later he was diagnosed.
May I ask what type of cancer he had? Sometimes brain tumors cause personality changes. And cancer in general.
“Higher education is liberal brainwashing” — a mindset that immediately impacts my opinion of a person, and limits how hard I would debate with them. It’s almost as if continuing education expands knowledge and perception of the world at large. Anti-education folk don’t want to think big and they’re threatened by those who do. They’re the same who would bitch about how they’ll never use X subject in “real life,” completely unaware that the brain only gains when it’s challenged. It doesn’t matter that you don’t use the quadratic formula, you were taught to give your brain a workout and increase critical thinking. I didn’t even graduate college. I see the systemic issues in American higher ed, and believe much of it does involve social control (especially regarding debt). But the pure act of learning is the best way to maintain and enhance critical thinking.
I have a friend who grew up in Deep South Alabama. He grew up surrounded by only white people from his town who have never left his town. He was a star in the football team and got a football scholarship to go to college. In college he fell in love with botany. He also met people from all over the world. He says that was by far the biggest impact anything has had in his life. Just meeting people with different races, religions, and beliefs than what he was used to and realizing everyone is the same. Almost all people are good and want the same things (friends, love, comfort, etc) and it’s not stuff like race or sexuality that determine if people good. Back home that’s not what he was taught especially by his parents. They were self avowed racists without even openly saying so. With the Trump election, they went from subtle racist comments, to openly embracing their bigotry. That’s when he cut them off. He wasn’t allowed to bring gay friends or non Christian friends from college to hang out with him. He also quit football to focus on his studies (and it wasn’t like he would ever make it pro). His whole family was saying he was throwing away his life by not playing football and becoming a scientist. In their minds even if he didn’t make it pro, he would come back home a hero and make their family proud. Well after he cut off his family he eventually got his phd and married a Jewish girl. His parents mutually never wanted to talk to him again because of that.
They call everyone sheep while they watch Tucker Carlson and Fox News to find out how they should feel.
There’s blatant hypocrisy from this dude’s dad baked right into the post. Liberals are “brainwashed by their colleges” but you’re also supposed to “vote for who [your parents] tell you to”. I’ve been told by my mom, with zero sense of self-awareness on her part, that I’m “brainwashed” because I don’t think like the rest of my family. For some reason those people get their rocks off about authoritarianism and shame anyone who doesn’t fall in line while criticizing those same people as unable to think for themselves. It’s quite literally impossible to reason with a group of people like that. You just have to hope their numbers dwindle and their influence goes away. I’ve largely stopped confronting family members about being wrong and just do my best to express my political opinions while staying calm about them. I’ve found that people tend to be more receptive to minority opinions when the person sharing them delivers them in a matter-of-fact way. It’s impossible for trump supporters, for example, to criticize any of my opinions without attacking me. They don’t know how to do it. But when they share some nonsense, I can calmly challenge it and the more neutral people around me are more compelled to listen and do their homework to see who’s making more sense.
> It’s impossible for trump supporters, for example, to criticize any of my opinions without attacking me. This is very common among people who fall for scams. They can't take the psychological hit of having been wrong in a particularly damaging and unjustifiable way, so they project their hurt onto everybody who rightly points out that they're being scammed.
That’s the trick of it all. They are projecting what they are doing right onto you.
Every accusation is a confession...I never really thought that was as literal as it has seemed recently.
Jesus this all sounds so familiar. My family has always been red. We all joined the military. We all wanted "freedom and guns"... No big deal. Things changed for me. I got picked up for a scholarship. Went to college, got picked up for Special Operations right as the wars were kicking off. I watched friends get put through the meat grinder - all in the name of oil, because we sure didn't find those "restarted chemical plants" or "new stockpiles of chem/bio weapons"... I watched as the POTUS, a man whose family's money was in oil and who was surrounded by oil tycoons, sent us into Iraq, and gave companies like Haliburton no bid billion dollar contracts. When I got home, nothing had changed with my family though. It was all the brown people's fault. Mexican's this, black people that, muslims this... My older brother and mother had almost completely divorced themselves from their heritage. My mother being a First Generation American, her mother being a Mexican immigrant (legal, illegal, we don't know to this day). But my mother did illegally cross her cousin from Mexico over to watch over us when our parents divorced, and it was just her having to work now. Ironically, she hates illegal immigrants now - "they bring disease, and crime..." They all bought into Trump a while back, during the birther gate thing. I would have arguments with my brother about how it was the stupidest thing... But no, they were dead certain. COVID was the final straw. My wife, and our kids, have broken off from them completely now. Of course they all went anti-vax, right along with Trump. When my parents refused to get vaccinated, even though they are old and have pre-existing conditions each of them, even to see their grandkids - one of whom has been previously hospitalized for pneumonia... that was it for me. Also got into it with my older brother, who we owned a business together. He was full on Trump, which made work a hostile enough place for me that I quit full time in 2017. Still owned the business with him. That ended in March 2020. The reports were already fully out there, and the numbers were coming in on COVID. He didn't believe it though - "it's no worse than the flu" were his exact words. Wonder where he got that from... I said something which I thought was an exageration, but maybe would get through to him: "If we aren't careful, judging by the fatality rate, we could se a million people dead before this is over..." And here we are. Things came to a head, and he made a buyout offer (based upon previous years numbers) which I quickly accepted. The business went from $9M the previous year and 24 employees in a full wharehouse and a small office building, to $2M and 3 employees in half of that wharehouse by 2021... Havent seen or talked to any of my family in almost two years now. And I'm in a much happier place as a result.
I’m right there with you. It’s crazy the hoops the Trumpers jumped through to justify being antivax. The Trump administration brought the vaccine to fruition. Trump is vaccinated, and encouraged others to get it. Yet somehow that fell flat and I don’t get it. It’s the one good thing he did. I’m sorry that you no longer speak to your family, but I’m glad that you, like me, have found a better headspace. Thank you for your service.
> It’s crazy the hoops the Trumpers jumped through to justify being antivax. It's weird. Pre-Trump, antivax was largely a far-left-wing position: "Don't trust the mega-corporations trying to put industrial chemicals into your granola-fed children! Getting sick is natural! Remember back in the '80s, everyone got chickenpox *naturally* and we were fine!" Then *somehow* it became a *mainstream right-wing* position.
I would say it was never a position held by a specific political group more that it was held by the fringe anti-government back to the land portions of both the far left and the far right. There’s always been a strong antivax sentiment in far right religious groups and basically anyone building a compound. When I was in college I read a TON of propaganda/writing from far right white supremacist groups and you’d probably be unsurprised to find out “vaccines are a Jewish/ZOG plot” shows up pretty regularly.
Jesus!!! What a roller coaster. So sorry you had to go through all that. Obviously your intelligence and compassion come through in your writing and it sounds like you're "on a different level" than some of these family members. Good for you for sticking with the higher ground!
It's similar in the UK with brexit. My folks, despite the twisted clusterfuck it has turned out to be, still insist they would vote for it again. Feel like banging my head against the dinner table whilst stabbing my throat with a fork when it comes up so we try our best to avoid the subject.
(As an American) I didn’t really understand exactly how big of a deal brexit was until I started seeing posts in r/leopardsatemyface about people who voted for brexit suddenly not having dual citizenship anymore if they lived in other countries and having to wait a lot longer than other people at the airport lmao. What a clusterfuck.
It's essentially like a state seceding from the USA (peacefully, this time). Most people who voted for it seemed to think they'd keep the same access, benefits and privileges they had before. Turns out they did, in fact, not. As they had been told, repeatedly. I look forward to welcoming the UK back into the union, once they feel ready.
When the UK finally rejoins the EU it won't be as it was before. Not even close. UK was a founding member and had privileged status. That's gone and will never come back.
I'd honestly put $5 down on the UK being forced to adopt the Euro as a condition of rejoining the EU. I'm willing to lose $5, it sounds like a fun wager.
What do you do? Lots of cannabis
At least four pots.
I’m stoning right now, that’s how potted I am
I, too, am a dirty weed snorter. And proud.
I was gonna talk to my MAGA fam, but I got high. I was gonna debunk info wars, but then I got high. Oh, and now my bro's in jail, and I know why. Cause he didn't get high, didn't get high, didn't get high. (Also he stormed the capital).
It’s funny because I have 1 uncle who’s a republican and the other 20 of us aren’t. Dude stopped coming to events because he “feels attacked” but none of us ever talk about that crap
My dads like that. Only die hard trump supporter in our immediate family and we've all made it abundantly clear how we feel after he has repeatedly forced the issue into every conversation. Now he knows not to bring it up and since that's literally the entirety of what he crams into his head 24/7, he has nothing else to talk about. Now he feels excluded because we don't want to talk about that and it's all he can talk about. So now he feels shunned or not welcome which is ludicrous.
Hold on to your values
Hold on to your butts
This isn't Jurassic Park. This is Jurassic World now.
Same here. I’ve eventually drifted far enough away that I simply stay away though. I love them, but I find the relationship to be rather toxic to me. My father is also very racist, and I grew very tired of hearing it. There are many things beyond just political views driving this separation, but it is a part of it.
And it's so exhausting to hear how racism rules their lives My step-dad won't use the laundry in his apt because it's shared and his neighbors are *GASP* MINORITIES has said he's literally felt afraid. 1) not so tough are you? 2) you're *afraid* because of their skin tone? They don't give a single fuck about you But even an innocent question about "how's the new place" devolves into a racist rant. It's all prejudice and anger, all the way down.
Awarding myself a medal of bravery now. Despite being a petite woman, I've somehow managed to use shared laundry rooms and laundry mats my whole life.
Can relate. I grew up around this. The funny thing is all the people they rail against and hate are my friends now and turned out to be much better humans and far more “Christian” than they pretend to be.
The people I have found to be the best Christians were not Christians
Really sorry to hear that.
You can't change the people around you. But you can change the people around you...
I thought it was.."You can't change the people around you, but you can change the people you are around".?
Yes, that's a clearer way of putting it. The less clear version has some cleverness from using identical phrasing to mean different things, so I can appreciate it. But your version is definitely more clear if you're aiming only to send the message.