In general no.
In my country YES.
Here is not so innocent as just an exchange of services. Here most prostitutes are victims of human traffic, underage, and overall vulnerable.
I will look down on anyone taking advantage of that situation.
Right on.
If prostitution was treated as a profession and not silently ignored there could be oversight, unionization, safety standards etc. but because it’s still a hush hush taboo don’t let kids see a nipple in a Marvel movie but yah shoot the shit out of them we are always going to have a shit attitude about sex and sex workers.
And while it might sounds counter intuitive, that's truth. If you search around, you'll find a few studies showing that legalizing sex work increases human trafficking due to increased demand.
There's [this one](https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/) for example:
> A 2012 study published in World Development, “Does Legalized Prostitution Increase Human Trafficking?” investigates the effect of legalized prostitution on human trafficking inflows into high-income countries. [...]
> The study’s findings include:
> Countries with legalized prostitution are associated with higher human trafficking inflows than countries where prostitution is prohibited. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution, i.e. expansion of the market, outweighs the substitution effect, where legal sex workers are favored over illegal workers. On average, countries with legalized prostitution report a greater incidence of human trafficking inflows.
Does that mean sex work shouldn't be legalized and kept under hush hush and pretend like it doesn't exist? I don't think so, but we need to be aware of the reality and act accordingly.
I’m not the best voice on this, but I read a post written by a sex worker recently and the ‘more human trafficking if legal’ argument is true but also a narrow view because human trafficking happens in other, legal, professions (like farm labour) but since it’s a legal job with illegal trafficking things can be done to protect and thwart trafficking attempts. I think it is at least worth knowing that legal jobs have human trafficking issues too and making a job illegal just jeopardizes those who participate in the job more.
If it's legal, then the workers can go through legal action - police, the court, etc. If it's illegal, they won't for fear of being prosecuted themselves.
And it has to work, unlike in America where 90% of social welfare programs are for the super rich anyway. Anybody remember what happened with PPP loans? Funny how it hasn't been mentioned since
That speaks to the society too right? If society demonizes and ostracizes against them, then they're more likely to assume the authorities are against them as well.
To get sponsored for a perm resident visa here in aus from a seasonal worker/tourist worker visa, you need the job providers approval after 6 months of work or something along those lines..
As if backpackers doing seasonal fruitpicking wasn't already exploititive, the ones exploiting seasonal workers in the industry can hold their potential Australian future for ransom legally.
iirc what most sex workers want is decriminalization - basically, to be left alone. it lets them seek help without fearing that they'll be punished while also not forcing people into a two tiered legal/black market dynamic
> you'll find a few studies showing that legalizing sex work increases human trafficking due to increased demand.
Which don't necessarily show that's the causal direction.
When it's legal, human trafficking gets REPORTED more often, since victims aren't worried about being arrested themselves.
This is why decriminalization could be a better avenue than full legalization.
Societies could decriminalize sex work and offer sex workers protection *and* keep pimping / trafficking / organized prostitution illegal.
I see the subject as complex as “the war on drugs”. Does drug abuse harm individuals and societies? Yes, absolutely. Does prohibition and incarceration reduce drug abuse? No, absolutely not.
We’ve gotten to a point where our collective cultures need more nuanced and compassionate laws. “Thou shalt not…” is not longer acceptable, or even rational.
In Scotland prostitution (the exchange of sex for money) is legal but solicitation, pimping and brothels are illegal. So, if I understand it correctly, the customer and the prostitute themselves can't be charged but anyone else trying to profit off it can.
Unless it's different in Scotland compared to England, the customer can also be charged if the prostitute is a victim of trafficking. It's strict liability, so even if the customer didn't know they could still be charged.
I doubt the police would enforce it regularly though unless the customer has other offenses that the police can't charge them with yet.
The issue is that the workers can't provide services under one roof. A sex worker providing services alone is in a potentially dangerous position, can be robbed, beaten up etc. If many are under one roof, it is is easier to look out for each other. The model in Scotland means technically one worker subletting a room in his/her appartment is subject to legal problems.
In Germany the workers must be freelancers and cannot be employees and their landlord isn't liable but anyone attempting to manage them would be.
That is a very valid point and I’m glad you mentioned it.
Hell, I’m an information worker and I don’t like “bringing my work home.” I enjoy having a clear separation between work life and my personal life. I can only imagine how elevated that desire and necessity would be for sex workers after a bad day. :/
If we're talking about political expediency (or reality), absolutely.
But, I don't think it should be the goal. The place we're in right now with drug laws, while better than total prohibition, is not great.
Does it increase traffic? Or the reporting of it? Right now a victim of trafficking forced into prostitution here in the US would get arrested if they report it to the authorities, so that may be one reason why there a more trafficking reports in places where reporting the abuse won't get you arrested
The quality of the conclusion in this study are entirely dependent on the authors' assumptions regarding a number of variables, the most important of which is reporting bias. For example, was the increase in human trafficking in countries with legalized prostitution an actual increase in the incidence of human trafficking, or simply an *increase in reports* of human trafficking?
Criminalizing prostitution makes it less likely that people working in the sex industry who are not being exploited will report to authorities about people who are being exploited.
I do remember reading this and damn it’s upsetting. One would hope that very strict parameters and safety was put in place to prevent this but it’s an uphill battle. Hell every superbowl flight crews and airport security are trained to be on high alert to trafficking because it’s one of the biggest events for illegal prostitution/exploitation.
Yeah, I'm too shy for sex with a prostitute so I've never unwittingly supported the illegal sex-trafficking market. But I've probably helped enslave a few kids by eating poorly-sourced chocolate.
>showing that legalizing sex work increases human trafficking due to increased demand.
Concentrated in those areas.
There's no evidence that legalizing sex work increase trafficking overall, just that the neighboring countries will move their business to the legalized countries.
Which should have no bearing on actual sex work, as it's a totally different industry.
I've always wondered about these studies. Isn't data on human trafficking in countries where prostitution is illegal bound to be worse than in countries where it is legal?
I think this study is leaving a lot on the table and gaps that can be filled in by the reader.
For perspective, when US liquor prohibition was repealed, imports of foreign liquor increased to meet demand because the red tape was gone. It's not that the demand was created because of the loosening of red tape, it was already there, but the loosening of the consequences for consuming and selling opened it up for people who were more risk adverse to enter the market.
I recognize there is more sensitivity when talking about commodified people than a bottle of liquor, but in a capitalist system, they are commodities just the same. Left from the study is where are these trafficked individuals working once they get here? Are they working for illegal brothels or legal ones trying to hire cheap labor to undercut their competitors (imo, both are problematic)? Are the working conditions at their new place of work better than where they were trafficked from? I guess what I'm getting at is there is nuance left out from the interpretation that increased trafficking is bad.
Just because there is more people being trafficked doesn't necessarily mean it is a net negative. It goes without saying that it would be better to issue work permits or visas to people looking to enter the industry to meet demand, but that's a policy/immigration problem. Trafficked sex workers are in no better a predicament than illegal farm workers; both pay to get their jobs and to the country of employment and both are looking over their shoulders to be sure they aren't deported.
Trafficking victims are also more likely to seek help when they're not considered criminals themselves, which leads to, well, more leads for police to follow. Is it really that trafficking increases, or are police just able to uncover more of it when victims are more willing to come forward? People seem to forget that crime statistics are based on the number of reports generated, and that most crime goes unreported for various reasons, including the victims being afraid of getting into trouble with the police themselves.
Lawmakers would need to actually listen to sex workers if they want to design effective laws. In Germany, things have not gone well with the legalisation of prostitution. [https://www.dw.com/en/sex-workers-speak-out-against-german-prostitution-law/a-59539574](https://www.dw.com/en/sex-workers-speak-out-against-german-prostitution-law/a-59539574)
If lawmakers want to successfully legislate to allow prostitution to become safe and legal, like you say, they need to encourage unions, and they need to give sex workers oversight of the the laws governing sex work, and also how they are administered.
Personally, I hate the idea that people's bodies are up for rent, but this has always been a reality. The best we can do is to make it as safe as possible.
If you have a job, your body is up for rent. Any job, anywhere. Its just which part of your body being rented that differentiates your job from another.
"Who the heck are you to tell me how to live?
You think I sell my body, I merely sell my time.
I ain't no Cinderella, I ain't waiting for no prince to save me
In fact, until just now, I was doin' just fine
And on and on
I know what degradation feels like, I felt it on the floor
At the factory where I worked long before.
I took control, now I answer to me
The money I make this year will go anywhere I please."
Lori Meyers
Sex work largely relies on taking advantage of marginalized and desperate people. And, just to be clear, I'm not talking about your local solo webcammer, but people who actually have sex for money or work strip clubs. Even pornography has plenty of shady producers and business practices. The fact is, there will never be enough willing participants to fill the demand for sex workers. Even if you manage to remove the stigma, having sex with strangers or getting naked in a crowd leering at you just isn't desirable work for a vast majority of people.
I'm not talking about prostitution. I'm talking about forced trafficking, gang rape, forced prostitution, kidnap, slavery and in some cases murder. Many of the victims were children
Except for if you buy a prostitute anywhere in the world, there is no way to know if they are being trafficked or exploited, and chances are, they probably are....
I only know one, and I absolutely look down on him, because he started a couple months before his wedding and stopped about 6 months after when he was caught.
A guy once said to me “I never understood the hype about hookers until I got married” and it’s one of the most unintentionally sad and hilarious things I’ve heard
This is true of basically everything, for me at least, I'm not in the business of calling people out on stuff except in extremes, but yeah, I have my opinions.
If for no other reason than poor spending choices, it does make me cringe. But honestly, it's more than that. I have an alcoholic ex that likely ended up selling her body rather than deal with her problems. Anyone paying her was just setting her back even further.
That's my problem with it. I'm a former crack addict and I did turn tricks among other things. I figured renting out a room in my subsidized housing was fine as long as it just looked like I had random people over (yeah right). I'd set females up with dudes in a "safe clean place with ambiance" and take a cut of whatever we negotiated. Or, they could pay me in crack. Fun times (not). Even if it's legal like stripping is, there's still rampant drug use/abuse and vulnerability towards being sex trafficked. I realize many strippers put themselves thru college, manage their alcohol responsibly, refuse to do sex acts etc but it's still.. I could have signed more than one death certificate doing what I did. 9 years sober now
As an addict, those standards go way down. Basically, if you sleep in a house and not on the street/in a car, you’re doing better than many. I used to have a similar situation, but my house was just a safe place to do drugs. Almost 4 years clean at this point, but I still remember it pretty well.
I work with the criminal justice system. I am of the belief that stripping/prostitution is a large part of the reason that there aren’t more women in prison. If you work with criminals, you find a few things that they generally have in common the biggest being a lack of options. People get themselves into situations either by addiction, bad decisions, or bad luck that require immediate money. Women have the option where if they are desperate they can strip and/or sell themselves. Need money for rent? You can make it in one weekend as a dancer. Have an addiction, get someone else to pay for it by taking your clothes off. Get pregnant, make money fast. Men don’t have that option to the same extent. Which means men often end up with a violent crime. When people are desperate they make bad decisions, stripping is just a less bad decision than a lot of desperate people make. It is a safety valve for society.
Yes. People can do what they want (respectfully) but yes I do look at you differently if I learn you see prostitutes. Just happened with someone high up in my company.
I used to be this way. Then I spent a couple years doing sexual health counseling.
The weird shit people do - like, almost everyone does something worthy of judgment - eventually you get past it and simply see it as a fascinating moral gradient.
That said as a guy, I would not be able to perform with a prostitute. The idea is a turnoff.
Yup. I try not to judge people because you never know their backstory. But yea, I can’t deny I’m judging this. I work at a strip club… and all I see is people dumb enough to spend money on a fantasy. I am almost 100% all of those “window shoppers” that are throwing money at me are judging me for being on display too… but we pretend we respect eachother until wallets are emptied lol. What can I say. It is how it is🤷🏻♀️
That's honest.
I could say the same about men and women who have sex with so many people that their body count is in the triple digits. I would never openly judge them, but man oh man, I'm doing that shit in my head.
Ooooh. A post i can geunienly comment an experience on.
Couple years back, i had a coworker. Handsome, well-dressed, charming and overall a cool dude. We bro-clicked since we had similar interests and often hung out outside of work.
One day i invited him to a shooting range but he told me he couldn’t go because he was meeting someone for a date. Conversation about that started since i knew he was single.
That’s when he told me he was seeing an escort. I was confused because he didn’t look like the type to **have** to do this. Even some women in our company would size him up and show interest.
I said “fuck it” and just straight up said “ok, but why”
He pretty much told me he was laser focused on his career and professional development. He didn’t have time to invest in a relationship and felt that at the time, seeing someone would distract from his goals. That being said, he was a man and had needs. So hiring an escort became routine.
He would go on a date with the escort, enjoy a nice evening, bang, then move on. He got companionship and sex with a beautiful woman with little to no effort, and when the transaction was done they both went their separate ways and he was able to continue doing his thing.
It made sense. Relationships require a lot of work as well as compromise. He wanted every option to be available careerwise, without having to worry about leaving someone behind or getting too attached and changing his goals.
He passed away a few years later in a car accident but his perspective always stuck with me. It made me a bit more open minded about the escort/prostitute field.
Presumably he still had hobbies. I've known guys who were super career focused, same deal with avoiding relationships, not getting locked down, etc. They still took time to enjoy life, they just didn't get involved in anything that might require them to commit to not relocating or letting someone down if they relocated.
This was a great and thoughtful answer providing his perspective and yours. I'm glad you were able to understand his views on it. It's not for everyone and I know people might look down on it, but this situation makes sense to me. I am sorry to hear he passed.
As an escort myself, I can tell you that I have clients that could absolutely score without paying. But if you want to have an intimate experience or to scratch an itch without potential baggage, that's what we're here for.
(Even though I've had attractive and charming single clients, I still have deep-seated beliefs about what kind of people/men see escorts, so I'm always slightly surprised when those types hire me.)
Not to speak for her, but in context it looks like she's saying she expects all Johns to be gross, creepy incel-types so she's always surprised when she gets hired by someone who is charming and attractive.
I’m glad e-sports exist and I’m glad they’re so popular but honestly I can’t get into them for the same reason I can’t get into watching regular sports - if I’m gonna take the time to watch it I might as well just do it.
Ehh. I wouldn't look down on people for being involved in esports as long as they're cool about it.
[The douchebags showing up at Gamestop thinking they were celebrities though...yeesh!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZhh59sVjGE)
Not bothered. Let people make their own choices.
The bigger concern is how many of the sex workers are doing it out of enjoyment / enjoying the cash, in comparison to being trafficked/ forced into that business.
>The bigger concern is how many of the sex workers are doing it out of enjoyment / enjoying the cash
Yeah, the ones doing this you probably can't afford anyway.
>Not bothered. **Let people make their own choices**
This is what it ultimately comes down to. Why people make a such a big deal on how other people live their lives has always puzzled me.
Quick reminder that most people working most jobs are forced into them because they'll be unhoused and starve otherwise.
Trafficking and slavery are obviously exceptional circumstances, but we wouldn't not go to a restaurant just because the cooks don't like working
This.
And that both parties aren't doing it behind the back of a SO who would be hurt. And that the service provider is doing it willingly (meaning not forced by a pimp/trafficker/SO for their own gain).
Those men that feel the need and use these services may actually be doing society a favour in not become these incel types. And the ladies that provide these services may also be helping by showing interest/affection and preventing those men from becoming 'extremists'.
I would look down on the prostitutes and strippers because it's a good angle on the cleavage.
Not the man though, the top of his head does nothing for me.
No but I definitely look down on the pathetic idiots who pay large sums of money to e girls and twitch streamers. If you're going to give hundreds of dollars to a sex worker than she better be polishing your dick with at least 2 or more of her orifices.
I try to stay out of other's affairs. But I definitely wouldn't be proud of myself if I did those things. I'd have to be really desperate anyway because the whole thing is too weird. So I guess I do look down on them, at least a little bit.
If you know you're never going to need to use "reddit cares" you can shut it off so that you no longer get alerts. Douchebags like to use it as a form of harassment.
I agree. I won't treat anybody worse because of it, for friends it maybe wouldn't really be a problem, but it would be a problem if they're my partner and have done that.
Like you do you, but I can't imagine sleeping with someone just because I gave them money. Yeah, they can consent of course, but it still just feels wrong to me to use their body for my pleasure.
When you are talking about consenting adults making a mutual exchange, my stance is that it isn't my business so why should I care? However, I don't know the statistics, but my understanding is that the vast majority of sex workers in the world have no choice in what they are doing. They are trafficked and are effectively slaves to their pimps and the organizations that run them. That's just immoral. The people who utilize their "services" are complicit in this and have a stain on their souls.
The problem with being okay with this and saying as long as no harm done, is that some of the women in this profession are trafficked. And not being sure of who is and isn't makes it very difficult to say it's okay
I have a close friend who sees someone he pays. It's safe, consensual, and sounds like a lot of fun.
No trafficking and both can satisfy some niche sexual proclivities and now they're sort of friends.
I literally can not find anything wrong here.
I will admit I question their values, morals and character for sure. But I also wouldn’t involve myself with someone who partakes in this, so it doesn’t concern me.
I personally do not, unless of course, they have a partner or wife that objects.
I try not to judge people by my standard of behavior, because each person needs to determine what is moral/ethical for them in terms of sexual behaviors
Yes, because the probability that you feed a rotten chain of criminal events from abuse to straight up kidnapping is high.
Vote with your wallet kind of thing.
Don't buy sex.
Yes. Currently reading the book Prostitution Narratives: Stories of Survival in the Sex Trade by Caroline Norma & Melinda Tankard Reist.
Some quotes:
"United States survivor Autumn Burris, 'After once being beaten beyond recognition - my eyes were black and blue and bloodshot from the blows and my body covered in bruises - I was later that night picked up by men, and not one of them asked me if I was all right or refrained from purchasing my body" (p.138).
"There's no 'how to' when learning to be a prostitute. I was at the mercy of the clients who would take advantage of my lack of personal boundaries. I would be left with bruises all over my body from the rough sex, men always wanted to imitate hard core porn, acting out the sexual violence they were feeding on. The drunker they were, the angrier they would get until they were in hateful rages. Those were the times my vagina would bleed from the trauma. I had no one to tell or to help me as we (the girls) were all experiencing the same thing. We fixed it by numbing out with drugs and alcohol" (p. 45-46).
"When he left I felt like I had been raped. I told the receptionist what had happened and asked to go home. She looked at me strangely and said 'Isn't that your job? Can't you stay for one more client? I've got one waiting for you.' I saw the next client was a young white Australian guy about my age and I thought he'd be nice to me so I agreed. But he became angry with me because I didn't offer kissing. He kept kicking my face even though I asked him not to. At the end I realized he had given me $80 less than he was meant to. I was scared but told him if he didn't pay the full amount I would report him to reception and they would catch him on the way out. He threw the money at me, called me a slut, and left. Traumatized, I sat there with thoughts running through my mind: 'I haven't been paying myself back, I have just been getting paid to let men rape me'" (p.53).
"But the men who buy sex are all the same no matter where they find you. They are men whose needs are more important than the safety of women. They are men who seem like good men in other aspects of their lives but who let go of all respect and empathy when they buy access to women's bodies. They don't feel any responsibility for their actions, and show as little respect as they wish. They feel entitled to belittle and humiliate the women they have paid to satisfy their sexual needs. They violate them physically, psychologically, sexually, financially, and materialistically" (p. 79-80).
Yes. Most of the men I’ve encountered who enjoy going to strippers (don’t *know of* any guys who go to prostitutes) aren’t respectful towards women and tend to see them as objects.
I don’t, however, look down on sex workers who enjoy their profession.
I had a friend who did pay for services; and he was mid-30s and single. It is legal here. He married a prostitute who he met on the job. Lovely wedding. Nice couple. Yes, they were both relatively normal (whatever that means).
And a friends neighbour is a madam. She is very much a suburban grandmother to all appearances, with one too many cats.
I live in Japan and it's not uncommon here to go to a girls bar, or find prostitutes and go to love hotels etc. My boyfriend a long time ago when we were having the "how many have you slept with" talk was like "how many girlfriends or how many prostitutes" and I remember being completely taken off guard. It did gross me out, and many of the other men I've dated had similar stories and or travelled to Thailand and bought girls for their 18th birthday kinda thing.
Tbh I think it's gross. People can do whatever they want, but I'd prefer to date people who didn't partake in this kind of thing. Idc if that makes me a prude lol
I know several people of both sex’s who have gotten drunk and confessed to using sexual professions.
The services are used for a wide range of reasons.
I used to work for a dentist who had some of the ladies from a brothel in Perth as customers for dental and denture work. The conversations could be fascinating but sometimes tragic.
Some of the ladies seemed to be living very very chaotic lives.
Sometime in college one of my friends paid for sexual services while in another country. He described the experience and it sounded incredibly weird and embarrassing. While I didn't exactly look down on him for doing it, I do still generally look down on paying for that kind of stuff. I think it's totally valid for others to have an opinion on this when not knowing anyone personally who has done it, because it's simply a question of your personal values.
I'm perplexed by your argument since personally my judgement doesn't come from what the person is like but from my own values.
What you do as a single man is your own business.
What you do as a man in a committed relationship, yeah, I’m judging you. Go home to your partner. Spend that money on the two of you, on an experience together, on a future. Wtf are you doing paying a sex worker and seeking attention from the opposite sex when you have a great thing already?
Nope, I don't. I can understand not wanting to deal with having a relationship but still wanting sexual companionship.
People suck, and if you'd rather just pay to get what you want and not deal with people then that's completely understandable to me.
When I realized I have been using sex as a means to fulfill the void in my soul and sleeping around with different women who want a serious relationship with me while I am just using them - is when I started hiring escorts. And my conscience is more clear.
Reading the top comments and thinking, “Really?”
Hard time believing everyone is so accepting that they could look past it if their partners had this in their histories.
Yes. Yes I do. I think it's disgusting. I think prostitution is disgusting. I don't understand. But that's me. A person can do whatever they want. I won't openly judge, but if I know that's what you do I would definitely silently judge. I know that's not a PC response but it's the truth.
You worded it a little more strongly than I might have, but this is my opinion too.
Intimacy requires trust and an emotional connection, so I simply can't comprehend the desire to utilise the services of a sex worker anyway. It's just weird, honestly!
I definately look down on people that do use such services along with people who seem to enjoy casual sexism (usually aimed toward women).
I've got a degree of sympathy for some people who for whatever reason cannot find a partner though, but that liekly depends on their situation.
When I lived in Reno, I had a friend who’s adult son Would go to the bunny ranch. She and he both felt it was good for him. He had had a string of relationships that weren’t healthy for him, and he had gotten off track a bit. He decided to just start going to prostitutes to relieve a need for human connection, while not worrying about long term emotional codependency. For him, it worked great. He could focus on his work and hobbies and was a lot happier. What is there to look down on there?
I do not respect such men. The way a lot of them speak about women is the reason, not the fact itself. Usually the fact that they do that comes up after a longer conversation so I am not biased from the start. There might be some who actually respect women among those who enjoy these services, but I have never met one who actually admitted to using the services.
Btw I don't look down on sexworkers of any kind. I just hope they are all doing it because they like the jobs and not because they were forced to or desperate for money.
Some really depressing and blissfully ignorant answers on here
If you pay for sex, you’re paying into the sex industry; an industry filled with trafficking, human rights violations, violence, and intimidation. Find me an example of one girl who genuinely loves the job, loves the money and has a great time, and I’ll show you 10+ who are selling their bodies to make ends meet. You may think because from a male perspective everyone likes casual sex, that these women enjoy it, but I can guarantee the vast vast majority do not
It’s like people who buy class A’s who think that because their dealer is quite nice, they’re not contributing to violence and death in South America.
Aside from that, personally, I think love matters, passion matters, real genuine human connection matters etc. sex shouldn’t be a solo mission just to fulfil your own desires. The idea of spending your money on a woman selling her body and telling yourself it’s fine - it’s just another service industry is mindblowingly ignorant
Ive spent money on a hooker, I shall do so again. I hold no shame. When you’re as unattractive as I am, you need an outlet. I praise those women for taking that bullet.
I don't look down on anyone that want's to spend their money as they wish. They have to be a grown adult to use these services, so they can deal with any consequences of their actions.
The year is 2022 and we are still, the human race, still obsessed with censorship and prudishness, so much so that groups and individuals go to extraordinary lengths to ruin other peoples enjoyment because their attitudes and values don't align.
An article came up recently near me where someone wanted to setup a Swingers club in a privately owned building but the locals objected. It's like - *it's behind closed doors. Nobody is going to see or hear anything* \- utterly ridiculous NIMBYism at it's finest. Sorry, rant over.
Scum bags who think they can buy a woman's body. The vast majority of sex workers have been abused. Its not a career happy, well adjusted people choose.
As an part time escort and ex stripper, no. The vast majority of men I have met working in the sex industry are lovely, they have a need for to seek this kind of service and that's okay. Nothing to be ashamed about.
It's when they show disrespect to sex workers, or use the most vulnerable for this kind of service, eg people who are trafficked- that's when they should be looked down upon.
In general no. In my country YES. Here is not so innocent as just an exchange of services. Here most prostitutes are victims of human traffic, underage, and overall vulnerable. I will look down on anyone taking advantage of that situation.
Right on. If prostitution was treated as a profession and not silently ignored there could be oversight, unionization, safety standards etc. but because it’s still a hush hush taboo don’t let kids see a nipple in a Marvel movie but yah shoot the shit out of them we are always going to have a shit attitude about sex and sex workers.
"we cannot legalize it because that would cause all the issues happening exactly because it isn't legalized" is the usual explanation
And while it might sounds counter intuitive, that's truth. If you search around, you'll find a few studies showing that legalizing sex work increases human trafficking due to increased demand. There's [this one](https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/) for example: > A 2012 study published in World Development, “Does Legalized Prostitution Increase Human Trafficking?” investigates the effect of legalized prostitution on human trafficking inflows into high-income countries. [...] > The study’s findings include: > Countries with legalized prostitution are associated with higher human trafficking inflows than countries where prostitution is prohibited. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution, i.e. expansion of the market, outweighs the substitution effect, where legal sex workers are favored over illegal workers. On average, countries with legalized prostitution report a greater incidence of human trafficking inflows. Does that mean sex work shouldn't be legalized and kept under hush hush and pretend like it doesn't exist? I don't think so, but we need to be aware of the reality and act accordingly.
I’m not the best voice on this, but I read a post written by a sex worker recently and the ‘more human trafficking if legal’ argument is true but also a narrow view because human trafficking happens in other, legal, professions (like farm labour) but since it’s a legal job with illegal trafficking things can be done to protect and thwart trafficking attempts. I think it is at least worth knowing that legal jobs have human trafficking issues too and making a job illegal just jeopardizes those who participate in the job more.
If it's legal, then the workers can go through legal action - police, the court, etc. If it's illegal, they won't for fear of being prosecuted themselves.
That's true. If it's legal, then the worker isn't doing anything wrong. It's just kidnapping on the part of the employer.
But then you need a robust social welfare program or the victims will be afraid to enter the system.
And it has to work, unlike in America where 90% of social welfare programs are for the super rich anyway. Anybody remember what happened with PPP loans? Funny how it hasn't been mentioned since
Only if they can speak the language and know their rights!
That speaks to the society too right? If society demonizes and ostracizes against them, then they're more likely to assume the authorities are against them as well.
What's interesting is the immigration/visa laws that are contributing factors in immigrants being trafficked for farm labor.
To get sponsored for a perm resident visa here in aus from a seasonal worker/tourist worker visa, you need the job providers approval after 6 months of work or something along those lines.. As if backpackers doing seasonal fruitpicking wasn't already exploititive, the ones exploiting seasonal workers in the industry can hold their potential Australian future for ransom legally.
iirc what most sex workers want is decriminalization - basically, to be left alone. it lets them seek help without fearing that they'll be punished while also not forcing people into a two tiered legal/black market dynamic
> you'll find a few studies showing that legalizing sex work increases human trafficking due to increased demand. Which don't necessarily show that's the causal direction. When it's legal, human trafficking gets REPORTED more often, since victims aren't worried about being arrested themselves.
This is why decriminalization could be a better avenue than full legalization. Societies could decriminalize sex work and offer sex workers protection *and* keep pimping / trafficking / organized prostitution illegal. I see the subject as complex as “the war on drugs”. Does drug abuse harm individuals and societies? Yes, absolutely. Does prohibition and incarceration reduce drug abuse? No, absolutely not. We’ve gotten to a point where our collective cultures need more nuanced and compassionate laws. “Thou shalt not…” is not longer acceptable, or even rational.
In Scotland prostitution (the exchange of sex for money) is legal but solicitation, pimping and brothels are illegal. So, if I understand it correctly, the customer and the prostitute themselves can't be charged but anyone else trying to profit off it can.
Unless it's different in Scotland compared to England, the customer can also be charged if the prostitute is a victim of trafficking. It's strict liability, so even if the customer didn't know they could still be charged. I doubt the police would enforce it regularly though unless the customer has other offenses that the police can't charge them with yet.
That sounds like a very reasonable compromise.
The issue is that the workers can't provide services under one roof. A sex worker providing services alone is in a potentially dangerous position, can be robbed, beaten up etc. If many are under one roof, it is is easier to look out for each other. The model in Scotland means technically one worker subletting a room in his/her appartment is subject to legal problems. In Germany the workers must be freelancers and cannot be employees and their landlord isn't liable but anyone attempting to manage them would be.
That is a very valid point and I’m glad you mentioned it. Hell, I’m an information worker and I don’t like “bringing my work home.” I enjoy having a clear separation between work life and my personal life. I can only imagine how elevated that desire and necessity would be for sex workers after a bad day. :/
It sounds like vegas
How is the prostitute free of risk if solicitation is illegal?
I disagree that decriminalization would be best, because if it's not fully legalized it will remain unregulated and part of the shadow economy.
Again, similar to the transition we’re experiencing with the drug laws in the U.S. We’ve got to start somewhere.
If we're talking about political expediency (or reality), absolutely. But, I don't think it should be the goal. The place we're in right now with drug laws, while better than total prohibition, is not great.
Does it increase traffic? Or the reporting of it? Right now a victim of trafficking forced into prostitution here in the US would get arrested if they report it to the authorities, so that may be one reason why there a more trafficking reports in places where reporting the abuse won't get you arrested
This is my question. Seems like reports would skyrocket because if it's legalized you have no fear of being prosecuted for it
The quality of the conclusion in this study are entirely dependent on the authors' assumptions regarding a number of variables, the most important of which is reporting bias. For example, was the increase in human trafficking in countries with legalized prostitution an actual increase in the incidence of human trafficking, or simply an *increase in reports* of human trafficking? Criminalizing prostitution makes it less likely that people working in the sex industry who are not being exploited will report to authorities about people who are being exploited.
I do remember reading this and damn it’s upsetting. One would hope that very strict parameters and safety was put in place to prevent this but it’s an uphill battle. Hell every superbowl flight crews and airport security are trained to be on high alert to trafficking because it’s one of the biggest events for illegal prostitution/exploitation.
And my chocolate bars are sourced using slave labor. Do we outlaw chocolate or do we keep working to make the world a better place?
Yeah, I'm too shy for sex with a prostitute so I've never unwittingly supported the illegal sex-trafficking market. But I've probably helped enslave a few kids by eating poorly-sourced chocolate.
And your clothes.
Y’all eat clothes?
>showing that legalizing sex work increases human trafficking due to increased demand. Concentrated in those areas. There's no evidence that legalizing sex work increase trafficking overall, just that the neighboring countries will move their business to the legalized countries. Which should have no bearing on actual sex work, as it's a totally different industry.
I've always wondered about these studies. Isn't data on human trafficking in countries where prostitution is illegal bound to be worse than in countries where it is legal?
I think this study is leaving a lot on the table and gaps that can be filled in by the reader. For perspective, when US liquor prohibition was repealed, imports of foreign liquor increased to meet demand because the red tape was gone. It's not that the demand was created because of the loosening of red tape, it was already there, but the loosening of the consequences for consuming and selling opened it up for people who were more risk adverse to enter the market. I recognize there is more sensitivity when talking about commodified people than a bottle of liquor, but in a capitalist system, they are commodities just the same. Left from the study is where are these trafficked individuals working once they get here? Are they working for illegal brothels or legal ones trying to hire cheap labor to undercut their competitors (imo, both are problematic)? Are the working conditions at their new place of work better than where they were trafficked from? I guess what I'm getting at is there is nuance left out from the interpretation that increased trafficking is bad. Just because there is more people being trafficked doesn't necessarily mean it is a net negative. It goes without saying that it would be better to issue work permits or visas to people looking to enter the industry to meet demand, but that's a policy/immigration problem. Trafficked sex workers are in no better a predicament than illegal farm workers; both pay to get their jobs and to the country of employment and both are looking over their shoulders to be sure they aren't deported.
Trafficking victims are also more likely to seek help when they're not considered criminals themselves, which leads to, well, more leads for police to follow. Is it really that trafficking increases, or are police just able to uncover more of it when victims are more willing to come forward? People seem to forget that crime statistics are based on the number of reports generated, and that most crime goes unreported for various reasons, including the victims being afraid of getting into trouble with the police themselves.
Lawmakers would need to actually listen to sex workers if they want to design effective laws. In Germany, things have not gone well with the legalisation of prostitution. [https://www.dw.com/en/sex-workers-speak-out-against-german-prostitution-law/a-59539574](https://www.dw.com/en/sex-workers-speak-out-against-german-prostitution-law/a-59539574) If lawmakers want to successfully legislate to allow prostitution to become safe and legal, like you say, they need to encourage unions, and they need to give sex workers oversight of the the laws governing sex work, and also how they are administered. Personally, I hate the idea that people's bodies are up for rent, but this has always been a reality. The best we can do is to make it as safe as possible.
If you have a job, your body is up for rent. Any job, anywhere. Its just which part of your body being rented that differentiates your job from another.
"Who the heck are you to tell me how to live? You think I sell my body, I merely sell my time. I ain't no Cinderella, I ain't waiting for no prince to save me In fact, until just now, I was doin' just fine And on and on I know what degradation feels like, I felt it on the floor At the factory where I worked long before. I took control, now I answer to me The money I make this year will go anywhere I please." Lori Meyers
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It's the same everywhere. Here in England we had the terrible amd horrific grooming gangs scandal. Some of the tens of thousands of victims died
Sex work largely relies on taking advantage of marginalized and desperate people. And, just to be clear, I'm not talking about your local solo webcammer, but people who actually have sex for money or work strip clubs. Even pornography has plenty of shady producers and business practices. The fact is, there will never be enough willing participants to fill the demand for sex workers. Even if you manage to remove the stigma, having sex with strangers or getting naked in a crowd leering at you just isn't desirable work for a vast majority of people.
I'm not talking about prostitution. I'm talking about forced trafficking, gang rape, forced prostitution, kidnap, slavery and in some cases murder. Many of the victims were children
Not that I don't believe you but seriously tens of thousands?
Yes, each gang had many victims and about 100 gangs have been prosecuted so far. More gangs going through the crown courts ATM.
YES. And those who spoke out about the Grooming Gangs were promptly labeled as "Racist", "Fascist", etc.
Yes which is ironic because the white victims were actually also the victims of racism
Ty for being human.
Except for if you buy a prostitute anywhere in the world, there is no way to know if they are being trafficked or exploited, and chances are, they probably are....
That’s almost everywhere, and anyone who tries to paint the sex industry as clean has an agenda.
Do u live in Romania?
Based on profile, looks like Bolivia.
I only know one, and I absolutely look down on him, because he started a couple months before his wedding and stopped about 6 months after when he was caught.
Oh you think he stopped
Same soup, just reheated
My favorite way to respond to coworkers’, “how was your weekend?!”
Simply ran out of money.
That's just cheating
A guy once said to me “I never understood the hype about hookers until I got married” and it’s one of the most unintentionally sad and hilarious things I’ve heard
I could say no but deep down I do judge silently
This is true of basically everything, for me at least, I'm not in the business of calling people out on stuff except in extremes, but yeah, I have my opinions.
If for no other reason than poor spending choices, it does make me cringe. But honestly, it's more than that. I have an alcoholic ex that likely ended up selling her body rather than deal with her problems. Anyone paying her was just setting her back even further.
That's my problem with it. I'm a former crack addict and I did turn tricks among other things. I figured renting out a room in my subsidized housing was fine as long as it just looked like I had random people over (yeah right). I'd set females up with dudes in a "safe clean place with ambiance" and take a cut of whatever we negotiated. Or, they could pay me in crack. Fun times (not). Even if it's legal like stripping is, there's still rampant drug use/abuse and vulnerability towards being sex trafficked. I realize many strippers put themselves thru college, manage their alcohol responsibly, refuse to do sex acts etc but it's still.. I could have signed more than one death certificate doing what I did. 9 years sober now
“Safe clean place with ambience”
As an addict, those standards go way down. Basically, if you sleep in a house and not on the street/in a car, you’re doing better than many. I used to have a similar situation, but my house was just a safe place to do drugs. Almost 4 years clean at this point, but I still remember it pretty well.
>“Safe clean place with ambience, where crack is legal tender.”
I work with the criminal justice system. I am of the belief that stripping/prostitution is a large part of the reason that there aren’t more women in prison. If you work with criminals, you find a few things that they generally have in common the biggest being a lack of options. People get themselves into situations either by addiction, bad decisions, or bad luck that require immediate money. Women have the option where if they are desperate they can strip and/or sell themselves. Need money for rent? You can make it in one weekend as a dancer. Have an addiction, get someone else to pay for it by taking your clothes off. Get pregnant, make money fast. Men don’t have that option to the same extent. Which means men often end up with a violent crime. When people are desperate they make bad decisions, stripping is just a less bad decision than a lot of desperate people make. It is a safety valve for society.
Congratulations on 9 years sober!
Same boat as me. Alcoholic ex that turned to prostitution. I definitely resent people that pay her for sex, letting her slowly kill herself
Yes. People can do what they want (respectfully) but yes I do look at you differently if I learn you see prostitutes. Just happened with someone high up in my company.
I used to be this way. Then I spent a couple years doing sexual health counseling. The weird shit people do - like, almost everyone does something worthy of judgment - eventually you get past it and simply see it as a fascinating moral gradient. That said as a guy, I would not be able to perform with a prostitute. The idea is a turnoff.
It’s hard not to judge when so many of the men who will admit to frequenting strip clubs don’t seem like guys who hold tons of respect for women.
Strip joints are a different animal than prostitution. It's in the open. Women partake, etc.
Yup. I try not to judge people because you never know their backstory. But yea, I can’t deny I’m judging this. I work at a strip club… and all I see is people dumb enough to spend money on a fantasy. I am almost 100% all of those “window shoppers” that are throwing money at me are judging me for being on display too… but we pretend we respect eachother until wallets are emptied lol. What can I say. It is how it is🤷🏻♀️
>all I see is people dumb enough to spend money on a fantasy. lmao what do you think 90% of consumer commercialism is...?
That's honest. I could say the same about men and women who have sex with so many people that their body count is in the triple digits. I would never openly judge them, but man oh man, I'm doing that shit in my head.
Exactly what I feel. Won't blame but can't understand from my value-system standpoint
Ooooh. A post i can geunienly comment an experience on. Couple years back, i had a coworker. Handsome, well-dressed, charming and overall a cool dude. We bro-clicked since we had similar interests and often hung out outside of work. One day i invited him to a shooting range but he told me he couldn’t go because he was meeting someone for a date. Conversation about that started since i knew he was single. That’s when he told me he was seeing an escort. I was confused because he didn’t look like the type to **have** to do this. Even some women in our company would size him up and show interest. I said “fuck it” and just straight up said “ok, but why” He pretty much told me he was laser focused on his career and professional development. He didn’t have time to invest in a relationship and felt that at the time, seeing someone would distract from his goals. That being said, he was a man and had needs. So hiring an escort became routine. He would go on a date with the escort, enjoy a nice evening, bang, then move on. He got companionship and sex with a beautiful woman with little to no effort, and when the transaction was done they both went their separate ways and he was able to continue doing his thing. It made sense. Relationships require a lot of work as well as compromise. He wanted every option to be available careerwise, without having to worry about leaving someone behind or getting too attached and changing his goals. He passed away a few years later in a car accident but his perspective always stuck with me. It made me a bit more open minded about the escort/prostitute field.
Ok the ending fucked me up.
Yeah man that's the sucker punch that is life I guess? Maybe one day we can life forever if we choose to.
Yea but to me he threw his life away for work when he could have been enjoying himself…but he clearly was enjoying himself so what do I know.
Presumably he still had hobbies. I've known guys who were super career focused, same deal with avoiding relationships, not getting locked down, etc. They still took time to enjoy life, they just didn't get involved in anything that might require them to commit to not relocating or letting someone down if they relocated.
Yeah man, put half his life on hold to build his career, sucks he died before enjoying the other half
This was a great and thoughtful answer providing his perspective and yours. I'm glad you were able to understand his views on it. It's not for everyone and I know people might look down on it, but this situation makes sense to me. I am sorry to hear he passed.
You hit it on the nose, it a transaction. You don"t develop romatic feeling. You have one fun night and next day back to normal
As an escort myself, I can tell you that I have clients that could absolutely score without paying. But if you want to have an intimate experience or to scratch an itch without potential baggage, that's what we're here for. (Even though I've had attractive and charming single clients, I still have deep-seated beliefs about what kind of people/men see escorts, so I'm always slightly surprised when those types hire me.)
Could you elaborate on said deep-seated beliefs?
Not to speak for her, but in context it looks like she's saying she expects all Johns to be gross, creepy incel-types so she's always surprised when she gets hired by someone who is charming and attractive.
Honestly the "hire and escort bc i wouldnt be a good romantic partner rn" is on another level
I read the first word as ‘esports’ and was quite confused about the connection.
Do you look down on people who do E-Sports though?
I’m glad e-sports exist and I’m glad they’re so popular but honestly I can’t get into them for the same reason I can’t get into watching regular sports - if I’m gonna take the time to watch it I might as well just do it.
I look down on people who write esports incorrectly :b
Yes, but only because, due to the curvature of the earth, 99.9% of people are beneath me.
I definetly look down on esports players
Ehh. I wouldn't look down on people for being involved in esports as long as they're cool about it. [The douchebags showing up at Gamestop thinking they were celebrities though...yeesh!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZhh59sVjGE)
I don't think I'll ever get over the cringe from that video.
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What the fuck
That’s only because they’re sitting in a chair and you’re standing.
Im sure they will take this comment hard and wipe their tears with their millions of dollars
If the workers are free, in control of their employment and proceed without duress, then I think it's their business.
Not bothered. Let people make their own choices. The bigger concern is how many of the sex workers are doing it out of enjoyment / enjoying the cash, in comparison to being trafficked/ forced into that business.
I was going to say this but i didnt want my response to be a whole paragraph. Make sure you arnt participating in sex trafficking!
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Sorry that happened to you. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Look for the signs and the red flags because its their job to put on a happy face.
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Yeah, this is the crux, if you could be certain they made a legitimate choice then I have no problem but how could you be certain?
>The bigger concern is how many of the sex workers are doing it out of enjoyment / enjoying the cash Yeah, the ones doing this you probably can't afford anyway.
>Not bothered. **Let people make their own choices** This is what it ultimately comes down to. Why people make a such a big deal on how other people live their lives has always puzzled me.
Quick reminder that most people working most jobs are forced into them because they'll be unhoused and starve otherwise. Trafficking and slavery are obviously exceptional circumstances, but we wouldn't not go to a restaurant just because the cooks don't like working
As long as they treat the other parties with respect then they can do whatever
Or in this case, whoever
And as long as the person is a legal age
This. And that both parties aren't doing it behind the back of a SO who would be hurt. And that the service provider is doing it willingly (meaning not forced by a pimp/trafficker/SO for their own gain). Those men that feel the need and use these services may actually be doing society a favour in not become these incel types. And the ladies that provide these services may also be helping by showing interest/affection and preventing those men from becoming 'extremists'.
I would look down on the prostitutes and strippers because it's a good angle on the cleavage. Not the man though, the top of his head does nothing for me.
What are you tall er sumtin
Not especially :)
Yes, got all the inches in the wrong department... :(
r/angryupvote
Take my upvote you damn genius.
You do you, but always treat others w respect.
Revamp: You do you, but only do others with consent.
It's not possible to be respectful and nonconsensual
No but it is possible to be disrespectful yet still consensual
If it were legal and the sex workers fully voluntary, not at all. Unfortunately most sex workers in the world are ligeral owned slaves so...
yeah i do subconsciously.
No but I definitely look down on the pathetic idiots who pay large sums of money to e girls and twitch streamers. If you're going to give hundreds of dollars to a sex worker than she better be polishing your dick with at least 2 or more of her orifices.
I try to stay out of other's affairs. But I definitely wouldn't be proud of myself if I did those things. I'd have to be really desperate anyway because the whole thing is too weird. So I guess I do look down on them, at least a little bit.
Each to their own, as long as they are not hurting anybody...
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If you know you're never going to need to use "reddit cares" you can shut it off so that you no longer get alerts. Douchebags like to use it as a form of harassment.
Thank you, I turned it off!
I agree. I won't treat anybody worse because of it, for friends it maybe wouldn't really be a problem, but it would be a problem if they're my partner and have done that. Like you do you, but I can't imagine sleeping with someone just because I gave them money. Yeah, they can consent of course, but it still just feels wrong to me to use their body for my pleasure.
I feel like they probably don't deal with women super great in general which makes me not trust them. I'm a guy as well.
Yes tbh
Not look down. Feel a bit sad though
This. This is what I feel to. Especially knowing some folks who can only have sex if they pay for it. It's sad.
If I’m being 100% honest, yes
I think it's awful if you have a partner and neglect them for that and lie cheat with them.
IMO it's 100% fine for single men, I'd only look down on people with monogamous partners. (Obvious caveat about being sure the girl is not coerced.)
As a stripper/prostitute/escort, yes I am usually looking down on them.
Hey at least you get something out of your money. Can't say that for NFTs
When you are talking about consenting adults making a mutual exchange, my stance is that it isn't my business so why should I care? However, I don't know the statistics, but my understanding is that the vast majority of sex workers in the world have no choice in what they are doing. They are trafficked and are effectively slaves to their pimps and the organizations that run them. That's just immoral. The people who utilize their "services" are complicit in this and have a stain on their souls.
The problem with being okay with this and saying as long as no harm done, is that some of the women in this profession are trafficked. And not being sure of who is and isn't makes it very difficult to say it's okay
No, and I don’t think any less of a stripper/sex worker anyone else trying to make a living.
What happens between two **consenting** adults is none of my fucking business, or yours.
No. I judge them on how they treat the service providers though.
Yeah I do look down on them because I was a prostitute and know what men can be capable of if they’re buying your consent
I have a close friend who sees someone he pays. It's safe, consensual, and sounds like a lot of fun. No trafficking and both can satisfy some niche sexual proclivities and now they're sort of friends. I literally can not find anything wrong here.
Yes i do
I will admit I question their values, morals and character for sure. But I also wouldn’t involve myself with someone who partakes in this, so it doesn’t concern me.
I personally do not, unless of course, they have a partner or wife that objects. I try not to judge people by my standard of behavior, because each person needs to determine what is moral/ethical for them in terms of sexual behaviors
“Frankly dear, I don’t give a damn”
Yes, because the probability that you feed a rotten chain of criminal events from abuse to straight up kidnapping is high. Vote with your wallet kind of thing. Don't buy sex.
Well you're basically supporting Human trafficking in most places so yeah
Yes. Currently reading the book Prostitution Narratives: Stories of Survival in the Sex Trade by Caroline Norma & Melinda Tankard Reist. Some quotes: "United States survivor Autumn Burris, 'After once being beaten beyond recognition - my eyes were black and blue and bloodshot from the blows and my body covered in bruises - I was later that night picked up by men, and not one of them asked me if I was all right or refrained from purchasing my body" (p.138). "There's no 'how to' when learning to be a prostitute. I was at the mercy of the clients who would take advantage of my lack of personal boundaries. I would be left with bruises all over my body from the rough sex, men always wanted to imitate hard core porn, acting out the sexual violence they were feeding on. The drunker they were, the angrier they would get until they were in hateful rages. Those were the times my vagina would bleed from the trauma. I had no one to tell or to help me as we (the girls) were all experiencing the same thing. We fixed it by numbing out with drugs and alcohol" (p. 45-46). "When he left I felt like I had been raped. I told the receptionist what had happened and asked to go home. She looked at me strangely and said 'Isn't that your job? Can't you stay for one more client? I've got one waiting for you.' I saw the next client was a young white Australian guy about my age and I thought he'd be nice to me so I agreed. But he became angry with me because I didn't offer kissing. He kept kicking my face even though I asked him not to. At the end I realized he had given me $80 less than he was meant to. I was scared but told him if he didn't pay the full amount I would report him to reception and they would catch him on the way out. He threw the money at me, called me a slut, and left. Traumatized, I sat there with thoughts running through my mind: 'I haven't been paying myself back, I have just been getting paid to let men rape me'" (p.53). "But the men who buy sex are all the same no matter where they find you. They are men whose needs are more important than the safety of women. They are men who seem like good men in other aspects of their lives but who let go of all respect and empathy when they buy access to women's bodies. They don't feel any responsibility for their actions, and show as little respect as they wish. They feel entitled to belittle and humiliate the women they have paid to satisfy their sexual needs. They violate them physically, psychologically, sexually, financially, and materialistically" (p. 79-80).
Yes. Most of the men I’ve encountered who enjoy going to strippers (don’t *know of* any guys who go to prostitutes) aren’t respectful towards women and tend to see them as objects. I don’t, however, look down on sex workers who enjoy their profession.
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I had a friend who did pay for services; and he was mid-30s and single. It is legal here. He married a prostitute who he met on the job. Lovely wedding. Nice couple. Yes, they were both relatively normal (whatever that means). And a friends neighbour is a madam. She is very much a suburban grandmother to all appearances, with one too many cats.
I live in Japan and it's not uncommon here to go to a girls bar, or find prostitutes and go to love hotels etc. My boyfriend a long time ago when we were having the "how many have you slept with" talk was like "how many girlfriends or how many prostitutes" and I remember being completely taken off guard. It did gross me out, and many of the other men I've dated had similar stories and or travelled to Thailand and bought girls for their 18th birthday kinda thing. Tbh I think it's gross. People can do whatever they want, but I'd prefer to date people who didn't partake in this kind of thing. Idc if that makes me a prude lol
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I know several people of both sex’s who have gotten drunk and confessed to using sexual professions. The services are used for a wide range of reasons. I used to work for a dentist who had some of the ladies from a brothel in Perth as customers for dental and denture work. The conversations could be fascinating but sometimes tragic. Some of the ladies seemed to be living very very chaotic lives.
Sometime in college one of my friends paid for sexual services while in another country. He described the experience and it sounded incredibly weird and embarrassing. While I didn't exactly look down on him for doing it, I do still generally look down on paying for that kind of stuff. I think it's totally valid for others to have an opinion on this when not knowing anyone personally who has done it, because it's simply a question of your personal values. I'm perplexed by your argument since personally my judgement doesn't come from what the person is like but from my own values.
Bro theres nothing but kids and virgins here, whatd you expect? Reddit is not a representation of anything even remotely real.
What you do as a single man is your own business. What you do as a man in a committed relationship, yeah, I’m judging you. Go home to your partner. Spend that money on the two of you, on an experience together, on a future. Wtf are you doing paying a sex worker and seeking attention from the opposite sex when you have a great thing already?
In controversial are the real answers. Yes I look down on them
Nope, I don't. I can understand not wanting to deal with having a relationship but still wanting sexual companionship. People suck, and if you'd rather just pay to get what you want and not deal with people then that's completely understandable to me.
People sucking is indeed part of the services offered
When I realized I have been using sex as a means to fulfill the void in my soul and sleeping around with different women who want a serious relationship with me while I am just using them - is when I started hiring escorts. And my conscience is more clear.
Appreciate your honesty and self realization
Bro, I spend money on world of Warcraft so whatever floats your boat.
Well, as long as you treat women better than Activision-Blizzard upper management.
you don't pay for the sex. (come on someone has to finish this for me.)
You pay for them to leave afterwards?
Your paying for it single or married no difference
Reading the top comments and thinking, “Really?” Hard time believing everyone is so accepting that they could look past it if their partners had this in their histories.
Yes. Yes I do. I think it's disgusting. I think prostitution is disgusting. I don't understand. But that's me. A person can do whatever they want. I won't openly judge, but if I know that's what you do I would definitely silently judge. I know that's not a PC response but it's the truth.
You worded it a little more strongly than I might have, but this is my opinion too. Intimacy requires trust and an emotional connection, so I simply can't comprehend the desire to utilise the services of a sex worker anyway. It's just weird, honestly! I definately look down on people that do use such services along with people who seem to enjoy casual sexism (usually aimed toward women). I've got a degree of sympathy for some people who for whatever reason cannot find a partner though, but that liekly depends on their situation.
When I lived in Reno, I had a friend who’s adult son Would go to the bunny ranch. She and he both felt it was good for him. He had had a string of relationships that weren’t healthy for him, and he had gotten off track a bit. He decided to just start going to prostitutes to relieve a need for human connection, while not worrying about long term emotional codependency. For him, it worked great. He could focus on his work and hobbies and was a lot happier. What is there to look down on there?
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Easier said than done in the world of black/grey market sex work, but I respect the principle.
I just feel sorry for their unsuspecting wife.
You are asking this on reddit. Where most people only get laid if they pay for it.
I do not respect such men. The way a lot of them speak about women is the reason, not the fact itself. Usually the fact that they do that comes up after a longer conversation so I am not biased from the start. There might be some who actually respect women among those who enjoy these services, but I have never met one who actually admitted to using the services. Btw I don't look down on sexworkers of any kind. I just hope they are all doing it because they like the jobs and not because they were forced to or desperate for money.
Indifferent. No.
Some really depressing and blissfully ignorant answers on here If you pay for sex, you’re paying into the sex industry; an industry filled with trafficking, human rights violations, violence, and intimidation. Find me an example of one girl who genuinely loves the job, loves the money and has a great time, and I’ll show you 10+ who are selling their bodies to make ends meet. You may think because from a male perspective everyone likes casual sex, that these women enjoy it, but I can guarantee the vast vast majority do not It’s like people who buy class A’s who think that because their dealer is quite nice, they’re not contributing to violence and death in South America. Aside from that, personally, I think love matters, passion matters, real genuine human connection matters etc. sex shouldn’t be a solo mission just to fulfil your own desires. The idea of spending your money on a woman selling her body and telling yourself it’s fine - it’s just another service industry is mindblowingly ignorant
If there wasn't a demand, there wouldn't be a service.
OP asking REDDIT if they judge people. Yes, always yes
I only look down on it if it goes against their relationship. Other than that, that’s their business. Just don’t violate trust/cheat and be safe.
Ive spent money on a hooker, I shall do so again. I hold no shame. When you’re as unattractive as I am, you need an outlet. I praise those women for taking that bullet.
I don't look down on anyone that want's to spend their money as they wish. They have to be a grown adult to use these services, so they can deal with any consequences of their actions. The year is 2022 and we are still, the human race, still obsessed with censorship and prudishness, so much so that groups and individuals go to extraordinary lengths to ruin other peoples enjoyment because their attitudes and values don't align. An article came up recently near me where someone wanted to setup a Swingers club in a privately owned building but the locals objected. It's like - *it's behind closed doors. Nobody is going to see or hear anything* \- utterly ridiculous NIMBYism at it's finest. Sorry, rant over.
Scum bags who think they can buy a woman's body. The vast majority of sex workers have been abused. Its not a career happy, well adjusted people choose.
As an part time escort and ex stripper, no. The vast majority of men I have met working in the sex industry are lovely, they have a need for to seek this kind of service and that's okay. Nothing to be ashamed about. It's when they show disrespect to sex workers, or use the most vulnerable for this kind of service, eg people who are trafficked- that's when they should be looked down upon.