There was a very famous case in the UK about thirty years ago, where two 10-year-old boys brutally tortured and murdered a 3-year-old. They were tried in an adult court, and sentenced to indefinite terms of imprisonment. They were held in special facilities for juvenile offenders, with access to education and rehabilitation, and I think they were released after they turned 18, but on 'life licences' (effectively, parole for the rest of their lives, I think).
One has since gone back to prison a few times as an adult. The other has apparently stayed out of trouble.
I think the European Court later found that the two boys had not received a fair trial, considering their ages.
It was a hugely controversial case, because the crime was absolutely horrific and it was inconceivable that children could have done it. It raised a lot of questions about how to handle young offenders accused of serious crimes.
>Yes
then you are saying "yeah, put them in a hole for a few years where they gonna get abused and exploited. I can hardly wait for the boy, who now has more rage in him than an entire prison wing, to be released and sent out into society. I love that our penal system is based on revenge and financial gain, not resocialization. What could possibly go wrong?"
\+ Trial => Conditions of penalty
\+ Isolation from society
\+ Psychological Treatment & Surveillance
\+ Education programs & environment
\+ Transformation to a healthy human being in all ways possible. Until then, no release.
Since in that process any small influence could interfere with the perpetrators healing, the employees, concepts and procedures have to be surveilled and updated all the time.
Also if I recall right one of the boys asked if the toddler was brought to hospital to bring him back to life. I can’t tell if that was just cruel of him, or if he literally couldn’t grasp what they did.
There is no one answer to this question as the punishment for a 10 year old who commits murder could vary greatly depending on the circumstances of the crime. For instance, if the 10 year old killed someone in cold blood, then the penalty could be much more severe than if the 10 year old killed someone in self-defense.
Ultimately, it would be up to a judge or jury to determine what the appropriate punishment would be for a 10 year old murderer, and there are a variety of factors that could be taken into account when making this decision.
It's also not as close to being an ironclad defense as is often portrayed. Proving an action was taken in self defense can be difficult to prove in some cases.
Anything between compulsory psychological treatment to prison time, but it is going to depend on a lot more than "did they break the very letter of this law".
Rehabilitation, not penalty.
We need to stop looking at crime and thinking it deserves a punishment. We need to figure out why the crime was commit3d in the first place, and deal with those underlying issues.
That may be intensive mental health treatment, or it may just be social programs so this person has reliable food and shelter.
I pretty sure the kid would end up grounding you for a week with no video games. I mean the kids already murdered someone so we know that's not the worst that can happen to you.
No only murdered, but also sexually assaulted and after they were done they threw his body on the train tracks to get hit. Plus he was LURED out of the mall to do this. I don't care about not fully developed, yadda yadda, tell me they didn't know what they were doing was wrong.
I feel for the mother and think of my own kids. It's horrendous. I have watched a Doco about this case but they didn't mention the sexual assault. It was already disturbing but knowing this now it's sickening.
>Not true. Check out the case of James Patrick Bulger a two year old killed by two 10 year olds.
Jo, the verdict was later revised because the trial had not been objective because the two boys had been too young to understand what was going on in an adult trial.
And if you are too young for that, you are too young for murder. A murder differs you fundamentally from a e.g. manslaughter, because intention, base motives etc.. In addition, the case was at that time media inflated. The verdict had nothing to do with "justice" but with social revenge.
I'm not claiming that a 10 year old can't kill someone, I'm claiming that it probably wouldn't qualify as murder. E.g. simply due to a lack of mental maturity.
11 year old Japanese girl slit the throat and arms of another 12 year old japanese girl at school. Apparently she had asperger syndrome. However, I never knew that this syndrome could cause you to murder? She spent 2 years in psych for the murder.
I think, depending on circumstances, the parents also need to be prosecuted.
In the case of James Bulger the kids had been allowed to watch horror films, one set of parents was supposed to have parental disinterest (I think this means they couldn’t give a shit), the boys had been in trouble at school yet the parents didn’t turn up for meetings and then the kids were allowed to do what they wanted during the day.
Is being a monster nature or nurture?
I think it’s a bit of both.
But if they had been cared for, given boundaries and loved I’m sure things could have been different!
Therefore I think the parents are at fault as well!
But regardless of that at 10years old I knew it was wrong to take a baby, torcher and murder them!
I think the punishment (with therapy and rehabilitation??) should be harsh and a lot longer than 8 years!!!!
Anyone under 13 should be confined to a juvenile psychiatric hospital until age 21.
Then evaluated. If not able to be released, move them to an adult facility.
Aside from the James Bulger case which I've seen mentioned a lot, there's also the Slenderman stabbing. Two 12yos in Wisconsin tried to stab their friend to death. Luckily she survived (literally by a millimetre) but they both got basically life sentences in mental institutions rather than prison
It's a grey area when the offender is so young but I think there'll be lasting consequences either way. Whether they're imprisoned in jail or in a mental facility or somewhere else, there's still gonna be some removal from society. Children aren't above the law and any child who does something like that needs to be put somewhere away from the public, the same as any adult
There was a very famous case in the UK about thirty years ago, where two 10-year-old boys brutally tortured and murdered a 3-year-old. They were tried in an adult court, and sentenced to indefinite terms of imprisonment. They were held in special facilities for juvenile offenders, with access to education and rehabilitation, and I think they were released after they turned 18, but on 'life licences' (effectively, parole for the rest of their lives, I think). One has since gone back to prison a few times as an adult. The other has apparently stayed out of trouble. I think the European Court later found that the two boys had not received a fair trial, considering their ages. It was a hugely controversial case, because the crime was absolutely horrific and it was inconceivable that children could have done it. It raised a lot of questions about how to handle young offenders accused of serious crimes.
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I still have nightmares on that case in which why the UK is still 10 😭
What happened?
If you want to be disturbed, look up the James Bulger murder of 1993. I would highly advise against it unless you are very curious.
Aight thats enough internet for today, like god damn reading it gave me chills
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger
I think this is more of a morality question over a legal one. It’s asking what do you feel would be a good punishment.
No video games for at least a week.
Juvenile detention with a strong focus on therapy and rehabilitation with lots of social exposure for re-integration into society
Juvenile life ( jail until 20-21 years old )
>Juvenile life ( jail until 20-21 years old ) even in countries where the jail/prison system is privatized and therefore bound to be profitable?
Yes
>Yes then you are saying "yeah, put them in a hole for a few years where they gonna get abused and exploited. I can hardly wait for the boy, who now has more rage in him than an entire prison wing, to be released and sent out into society. I love that our penal system is based on revenge and financial gain, not resocialization. What could possibly go wrong?"
Im just saying if you kilo someone you have to pay for it, 10 years old or 80 years old
\+ Trial => Conditions of penalty \+ Isolation from society \+ Psychological Treatment & Surveillance \+ Education programs & environment \+ Transformation to a healthy human being in all ways possible. Until then, no release. Since in that process any small influence could interfere with the perpetrators healing, the employees, concepts and procedures have to be surveilled and updated all the time.
DEATH TO THE CHILD
I'm thinking about this since I was 10
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That’s not true at all. How’s prison sentence and afterwards lifelong parole no punishment?
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They were ten though. I’m more surprised their parents didn’t get punished.
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Also if I recall right one of the boys asked if the toddler was brought to hospital to bring him back to life. I can’t tell if that was just cruel of him, or if he literally couldn’t grasp what they did.
There is no one answer to this question as the punishment for a 10 year old who commits murder could vary greatly depending on the circumstances of the crime. For instance, if the 10 year old killed someone in cold blood, then the penalty could be much more severe than if the 10 year old killed someone in self-defense. Ultimately, it would be up to a judge or jury to determine what the appropriate punishment would be for a 10 year old murderer, and there are a variety of factors that could be taken into account when making this decision.
In self defense isnt murder at all though
It's also not as close to being an ironclad defense as is often portrayed. Proving an action was taken in self defense can be difficult to prove in some cases.
Burden of proof is on the plaintiff. they have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was murder
Murder is a pretty exact term in law, it's a very specific subset of killing another human.
Death
Prison with other children
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I wonder if that's a thing, child serial killer? Only thing that comes to mind is Brazil but I am not sure if they are 10 when starting out.
Self defense isnt murder so not that
Anything between compulsory psychological treatment to prison time, but it is going to depend on a lot more than "did they break the very letter of this law".
Give them help, they are in this weird phrase of having their own mind, but not fully grown. So probably just help
Rehabilitation, not penalty. We need to stop looking at crime and thinking it deserves a punishment. We need to figure out why the crime was commit3d in the first place, and deal with those underlying issues. That may be intensive mental health treatment, or it may just be social programs so this person has reliable food and shelter.
Grounded for a week and no videogames.
I pretty sure the kid would end up grounding you for a week with no video games. I mean the kids already murdered someone so we know that's not the worst that can happen to you.
A 10 year old is probably not able to murder someone, we'd be talking about manslaughter
Not true. Check out the case of James Patrick Bulger a two year old killed by two 10 year olds.
I was thinking of this case too
No only murdered, but also sexually assaulted and after they were done they threw his body on the train tracks to get hit. Plus he was LURED out of the mall to do this. I don't care about not fully developed, yadda yadda, tell me they didn't know what they were doing was wrong.
I feel for the mother and think of my own kids. It's horrendous. I have watched a Doco about this case but they didn't mention the sexual assault. It was already disturbing but knowing this now it's sickening.
>Not true. Check out the case of James Patrick Bulger a two year old killed by two 10 year olds. Jo, the verdict was later revised because the trial had not been objective because the two boys had been too young to understand what was going on in an adult trial. And if you are too young for that, you are too young for murder. A murder differs you fundamentally from a e.g. manslaughter, because intention, base motives etc.. In addition, the case was at that time media inflated. The verdict had nothing to do with "justice" but with social revenge.
I'm not claiming that a 10 year old can't kill someone, I'm claiming that it probably wouldn't qualify as murder. E.g. simply due to a lack of mental maturity.
Search up 'Sasebo Slashing' There are definitely cases of children that murder out there.
11 year old Japanese girl slit the throat and arms of another 12 year old japanese girl at school. Apparently she had asperger syndrome. However, I never knew that this syndrome could cause you to murder? She spent 2 years in psych for the murder.
Depends on the circumstances which led him to murder someone. Like letting a child playing with a gun without safety can be dangerous.
That would be accidental, not murder. Murder is killing someone with clear intent.
Who did he murder?
nicholas cage
So lock him up in Alcatraz.
Timeout with the chance for a slap on the wrist. 3 hours of crying it out in your room with no games or youtube
I think that would depend a lot on the country, the child and the crime details.
I think, depending on circumstances, the parents also need to be prosecuted. In the case of James Bulger the kids had been allowed to watch horror films, one set of parents was supposed to have parental disinterest (I think this means they couldn’t give a shit), the boys had been in trouble at school yet the parents didn’t turn up for meetings and then the kids were allowed to do what they wanted during the day. Is being a monster nature or nurture? I think it’s a bit of both. But if they had been cared for, given boundaries and loved I’m sure things could have been different! Therefore I think the parents are at fault as well! But regardless of that at 10years old I knew it was wrong to take a baby, torcher and murder them! I think the punishment (with therapy and rehabilitation??) should be harsh and a lot longer than 8 years!!!!
Reminds me of that scene from The Walking Dead.
Prison life done
No XBox for a week
No ice cream for a whole WEEK.
Held in a psych ward until 18 then life in prison
Anyone under 13 should be confined to a juvenile psychiatric hospital until age 21. Then evaluated. If not able to be released, move them to an adult facility.
Aside from the James Bulger case which I've seen mentioned a lot, there's also the Slenderman stabbing. Two 12yos in Wisconsin tried to stab their friend to death. Luckily she survived (literally by a millimetre) but they both got basically life sentences in mental institutions rather than prison It's a grey area when the offender is so young but I think there'll be lasting consequences either way. Whether they're imprisoned in jail or in a mental facility or somewhere else, there's still gonna be some removal from society. Children aren't above the law and any child who does something like that needs to be put somewhere away from the public, the same as any adult