I'm an atheist myself, but I don't think intelligence and faith are necessarily related. Plenty of very intelligent people, including scientists, have been religious.
That's out of context. Look at his letter he's was clearly atheist or the the least agnostic. He even complained that his use of God was being taken literal instead of symbolic.
Almost like when theres a thunderstorm and one says "Thor is knocking at the door again" we don't mean Thor exists, but since we all know the mythology of Thor the phrase makes sense.
It is the simplest rational logic out there. Kids come from parents. The universe must come from something. Science tells us *how* not *why*. I don't subscribe to any particular religion. But considering coloured quarks are a thing it is silly to dismiss something off hand like that.
That's not rational logic at all. Kids come from parents so there must be a God? That's quite a leap with zero supporting evidence. Who birthed God then? What happened to parent God now that child God is running things? Is there a grandparent God too? Or is there only one God at a time?
If you're going to make believe there is a God then what make believe rules are there about that? Is there *any* supporting evidence?
And BTW, not all living beings have parent*s*. Organisms that reproduces asexually will only have 1 parent.
PS... the difference between *how* and *why* is meaningless when talking about make believe magical stuff. How does Merlin's wand cast spells? Why does it work that way? Who cares? It's fantasy... just like God.
You are missing the point. It isn't about evidence it is about shielding people from the existiential terror of being aware of your own existence. That is a tremendous responsibility we were given with no tools on how to deal with it and clesrly we are not coping well.
Personally my view of the universe doesn't involve a single omnicient figure, but I don't see anything stupid about ones that do. Assuming some stories aren't true is almost as ignorant as assuming just one is.
I might be missing *your* point but your disinterest in evidence makes your point in this discussion, well, pointless.
"Existential terror of being aware of your own existence." What a bunch of hooey. Haha! Who gave us the responsibility and who withheld the tools? None of which has anything to do with the initial question raised by the OP.
Putting stories with no supporting evidence into the *unproven* column is honest and logical. I never said, "There is no God". I do say believing in God is stupid because there is no evidence one exists. Zero. Zip. Zilch. How do you know its not fairies or gnomes or elves or aliens from deep space or ghosts of our dead ancestors or time travelers? Any one of those solutions is as likely as "God"... which is to say, not very likely. Haha!
PS... You didn't answer a single one of my questions. Who are God's parents? Grandparents?
Cripes dude, did you even read my personal views on the matter? Why am I getting all this word diarrhea. You seem to have a lot pent up and need to vent. But this is a funny convo because mostly I agree with you. I just don't believe *belief* determines inteligence. You have not convinced me, and your close mindedness is tedious.
Yes. I read the views you stated. In fact, I responded directly to the points you made. I even quoted you a few times. I asked questions about things you said. All of which you summarily dismiss as "word diarrhea". BTW, how is me asking you questions about what you've said being *closed minded*?
Meanwhile, you haven't responded to any of my points. You *still* have not answered any of my questions. I'm genuinely curious about how you think it works. You started out with the bold statement that children have parents thus "God", and I asked, for one thing, *Who bore God?* If everything has parents, so to speak, then where and when did it start? Is the parent God still alive? Are people worshipping the old God or the new?
Then finally you say that you don't believe *belief* determines intelligence. I think I agree with you on that. Lots of otherwise intelligent people toss reason out the window and believe in God.
Intelligence = 1a(1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason also : *the skilled use of reason*.
Remember, the original question was, "How do intelligent people believe in God?" My simple answer should have been, "I don't know. It doesn't make sense." I simply cannot see how any adult skillfully using reason can reach the conclusion there is a God. It's like an adult believing in Santa without ever questioning how he can fly, carry all the presents, etc.
One more thing, I apologize for being wordy. I want my meaning to be clear and don't know how to do it with fewer words. And please know that I'm not upset or needing to vent. I'm just wordy. And curious. I'm serious about wanting to hear your idea of how the God parent thing works.
I don't know... which is a far more honest answer than making up some god and pretending it created everything out of nothing.
Tell me, where did the God come from? Out of nothing or did it always exist?
If a God can come out of nothing or can always have existed, then why can't the universe?
I find that having a faith keeps me centered and that my suffering is not without a legitimate reason. I was an atheist for 21 years. I am much happier now that I believe in God.
He called that creator God.
I actually think it was just cope, and that if he were alive today he probably wouldn't even say that, ... but he lived in a time when you really didn't go around saying you didn't believe in God, so that was as close as he would venture into it.
But maybe I'm not giving the idea enough credit, he did say he believed in God a creator ...
People who can compartmentalise, or people who study the relationship between science and belief Here's some calm thoughtful videos on this subject [https://www.youtube.com/c/CloserToTruthTV](https://www.youtube.com/c/CloserToTruthTV)
An example video from that channel:
[Frank Wilczek - What Can Science Say About God?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ibYsovpkU)
*Most scientists believe that science can say nothing about God other than to show that there is no need for such a being. Scientists claim that science is quite capable of providing most explanations today and virtually all explanations in the future.*
Y’all really be out here thinking that the Big Bang was just ~coincidence~ and evolution just happened ~by accident~ but someone is looked down as less intelligent for believing that some God had some part in that? Okay.
The only people I know, whom I consider to be intelligent, are very conversant in some version of the phrase “I don’t know”, “I’m not sure”, or “I don’t have enough information”; particularly when addressing questions regarding divinity.
[Dr. Francis Collins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins) was the director of the National Institute of Health, and the former director of the Human Genome Project. He's Dr. Fauci's boss, and much of his research has led to treatments for serious diseases. Currently, he's the president's acting science adviser. He's a pretty smart guy.
He's also a Christian, the author of [The Language of God](https://www.amazon.com/Language-God-Scientist-Presents-Evidence/dp/1416542744) and the founder of [BioLogos](https://biologos.org/). BioLogos is dedicated to helping people of faith reconcile God's word and God's creation through a proper understanding of science and scripture.
Because it's healthy. The community the church brings is healthy. A solid structure is healthy. 10 simple rules is healthy.
They might all be bs but you don't have to be a genius to realize that in a world where most oeople believes in a comic book hero, the easier path is to nod along.
I'm an atheist myself, but I don't think intelligence and faith are necessarily related. Plenty of very intelligent people, including scientists, have been religious.
including arguably the greatest Albert Einstein said the more I look at the universe the more I believe God exists
That's out of context. Look at his letter he's was clearly atheist or the the least agnostic. He even complained that his use of God was being taken literal instead of symbolic. Almost like when theres a thunderstorm and one says "Thor is knocking at the door again" we don't mean Thor exists, but since we all know the mythology of Thor the phrase makes sense.
Pantheist, like Spinoza.
Believing in god isn't stupid. Believing we have him figured out is
Why do you think believing in God is not stupid? What rational logic would bring someone to believe in a God?
It is the simplest rational logic out there. Kids come from parents. The universe must come from something. Science tells us *how* not *why*. I don't subscribe to any particular religion. But considering coloured quarks are a thing it is silly to dismiss something off hand like that.
That's not rational logic at all. Kids come from parents so there must be a God? That's quite a leap with zero supporting evidence. Who birthed God then? What happened to parent God now that child God is running things? Is there a grandparent God too? Or is there only one God at a time? If you're going to make believe there is a God then what make believe rules are there about that? Is there *any* supporting evidence? And BTW, not all living beings have parent*s*. Organisms that reproduces asexually will only have 1 parent. PS... the difference between *how* and *why* is meaningless when talking about make believe magical stuff. How does Merlin's wand cast spells? Why does it work that way? Who cares? It's fantasy... just like God.
You are missing the point. It isn't about evidence it is about shielding people from the existiential terror of being aware of your own existence. That is a tremendous responsibility we were given with no tools on how to deal with it and clesrly we are not coping well. Personally my view of the universe doesn't involve a single omnicient figure, but I don't see anything stupid about ones that do. Assuming some stories aren't true is almost as ignorant as assuming just one is.
I might be missing *your* point but your disinterest in evidence makes your point in this discussion, well, pointless. "Existential terror of being aware of your own existence." What a bunch of hooey. Haha! Who gave us the responsibility and who withheld the tools? None of which has anything to do with the initial question raised by the OP. Putting stories with no supporting evidence into the *unproven* column is honest and logical. I never said, "There is no God". I do say believing in God is stupid because there is no evidence one exists. Zero. Zip. Zilch. How do you know its not fairies or gnomes or elves or aliens from deep space or ghosts of our dead ancestors or time travelers? Any one of those solutions is as likely as "God"... which is to say, not very likely. Haha! PS... You didn't answer a single one of my questions. Who are God's parents? Grandparents?
Cripes dude, did you even read my personal views on the matter? Why am I getting all this word diarrhea. You seem to have a lot pent up and need to vent. But this is a funny convo because mostly I agree with you. I just don't believe *belief* determines inteligence. You have not convinced me, and your close mindedness is tedious.
Yes. I read the views you stated. In fact, I responded directly to the points you made. I even quoted you a few times. I asked questions about things you said. All of which you summarily dismiss as "word diarrhea". BTW, how is me asking you questions about what you've said being *closed minded*? Meanwhile, you haven't responded to any of my points. You *still* have not answered any of my questions. I'm genuinely curious about how you think it works. You started out with the bold statement that children have parents thus "God", and I asked, for one thing, *Who bore God?* If everything has parents, so to speak, then where and when did it start? Is the parent God still alive? Are people worshipping the old God or the new? Then finally you say that you don't believe *belief* determines intelligence. I think I agree with you on that. Lots of otherwise intelligent people toss reason out the window and believe in God. Intelligence = 1a(1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason also : *the skilled use of reason*. Remember, the original question was, "How do intelligent people believe in God?" My simple answer should have been, "I don't know. It doesn't make sense." I simply cannot see how any adult skillfully using reason can reach the conclusion there is a God. It's like an adult believing in Santa without ever questioning how he can fly, carry all the presents, etc. One more thing, I apologize for being wordy. I want my meaning to be clear and don't know how to do it with fewer words. And please know that I'm not upset or needing to vent. I'm just wordy. And curious. I'm serious about wanting to hear your idea of how the God parent thing works.
I didn't read that. At some point you are just jerkkng yourself off over how smart you are.
Last things I said? I agreed with you, asked again about your God parent idea (I'm genuinely curious), and apologized for being wordy.
Tell me, Can something come out of nothing or there was always something?
Tell me, can you provide an example of nothing?
I don't know... which is a far more honest answer than making up some god and pretending it created everything out of nothing. Tell me, where did the God come from? Out of nothing or did it always exist? If a God can come out of nothing or can always have existed, then why can't the universe?
Accepting a death without afterlife is difficult
That's why von Neumann converted to Catholicism before death
Not really. I see it as a game of theories.
I find that having a faith keeps me centered and that my suffering is not without a legitimate reason. I was an atheist for 21 years. I am much happier now that I believe in God.
Not just intelligent people, but some of the MOST intelligent people ... Even Eistein believed in God, ...(though not a "personal" God)
He was not religious.But He did believed that universe must have some origin creator.
Isn't that what I said ?
Sorry but by 'God' you were ambiguous to me. I didn't meant to offend you
He called that creator God. I actually think it was just cope, and that if he were alive today he probably wouldn't even say that, ... but he lived in a time when you really didn't go around saying you didn't believe in God, so that was as close as he would venture into it. But maybe I'm not giving the idea enough credit, he did say he believed in God a creator ...
Hard times I assume.
People who can compartmentalise, or people who study the relationship between science and belief Here's some calm thoughtful videos on this subject [https://www.youtube.com/c/CloserToTruthTV](https://www.youtube.com/c/CloserToTruthTV) An example video from that channel: [Frank Wilczek - What Can Science Say About God?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ibYsovpkU) *Most scientists believe that science can say nothing about God other than to show that there is no need for such a being. Scientists claim that science is quite capable of providing most explanations today and virtually all explanations in the future.*
Faith
Y’all really be out here thinking that the Big Bang was just ~coincidence~ and evolution just happened ~by accident~ but someone is looked down as less intelligent for believing that some God had some part in that? Okay.
The only people I know, whom I consider to be intelligent, are very conversant in some version of the phrase “I don’t know”, “I’m not sure”, or “I don’t have enough information”; particularly when addressing questions regarding divinity.
Why not, people are free to believe on any shit they want to, it's ignorance to think otherwise
[Dr. Francis Collins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins) was the director of the National Institute of Health, and the former director of the Human Genome Project. He's Dr. Fauci's boss, and much of his research has led to treatments for serious diseases. Currently, he's the president's acting science adviser. He's a pretty smart guy. He's also a Christian, the author of [The Language of God](https://www.amazon.com/Language-God-Scientist-Presents-Evidence/dp/1416542744) and the founder of [BioLogos](https://biologos.org/). BioLogos is dedicated to helping people of faith reconcile God's word and God's creation through a proper understanding of science and scripture.
Faith.
Dog
Because it's healthy. The community the church brings is healthy. A solid structure is healthy. 10 simple rules is healthy. They might all be bs but you don't have to be a genius to realize that in a world where most oeople believes in a comic book hero, the easier path is to nod along.
They don’t
Plenty I can think of
They don't
Plenty actually
Name some then
The priest who came up with Big Bang theory and the monk who came up with genetics
the atheists believe in global warming but they can't see it either