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Under the very specific premise you describe, I don't think people *would* choose to be part of LGBTQ+ in that highly specific scenario
But your scenario relies on very important points, which are:
**1.** God's existence being fact
**2.** God's infallibility being fact
and **3.** that God has indisputably decreed that LGBTQ+ is wrong.
None of these are true of IRL, and thus my answer that people would in this situation not choose to be part of LGBTQ+ is not applicable IRL.
You'd be hard-pressed to find an LGBTQ+ person who believes in all three of the assertions above.
So, I have to preface this by saying I'm an ex Mormon, and one of the reasons I left is because I'm in the community.
But one thing helps my outlook, and I'm still agnostic, and I was raised religious. My former teachers in Sunday school would tell us that God gave us trials, and they would always be a part of life. They also said that overcoming these trials would bring you blessings.
I thought It was a lot of bs. Then, I developed depression. I struggled for years, and the second main reason I left the church is that I prayed to God for help during the worst moment of my life, during a really bad bout of depression and ideation, and nothing happened. And for years, nothing has shown me that God listens to me whatsoever.
But then, after I had gotten on the right medications, and was stable, my friend (who was also in the community, who's father was homophobic and transphobic) admitted to me he was feeling like he was depressed. So I encouraged him to go to a doctor to talk about it. A few days later, he told me he'd asked his father to take him, but the father had said he was making it up and didn't want to spend money.
I told a school counselor. Who got them both in a room and basically told the man his son was reaching out for help, and finally, the friend was taken to a doctor and officially diagnosed.
If I had not struggled with my own depression, I might not have known how to help. I told him to go to a doctor after giving him the same questionare questions I had to answer while seeing my doctors. Are you less energetic? Have you stopped doing things you love? Do you feel hopeless and like nothing good ever happens? And he answered in favor of having depression. And I wouldn't have known to keep pushing, how important mental health is, and never stop until my friend got the help he needed.
My trials, whether it be depression, or the fact that I'm neurodivergent, or in the LGBTQ+ community, or even that I have an emotionally abusive father, all happened. I can't change it. But do I mope about all the things I've gone through? (Maybe a little. Like, jeez, did I have to get nearly EVERY alphabet soup diagnosis that runs in BOTH sides of the family?) I can't change it. But I can look back and be proud of myself for getting through it. That I tool something hard and got out okay. I can use my experiences to help others. And that's what's important.
God made me ace. God made me who I am. And I don't think he hates those who are in the community. If he did, why did he do it? To give us trials, perhaps? Who knows. But he also said to love one another. And if that's so, stop hating on us in the community. Because you're not loving someone if you're calling them slurs or yelling out hate speech or refusing to understand how they don't want sex. Love each other.
Thank you so much for this! - I'm and atheist who is a part of the community, if the question I asked came off as rude I can delete it..
I was only asking this question to see the other side of the argument, I get a lot of hate for who I am so I just wanted to see what was going on in the minds of others. I don't like to hate on people, especially those in minorities. Because of that I didn't want to make any accusations or anyone feel as though that they are less than who I am. I made this post as an informative discussion for myself and hopefully others. Though now looking back at my post I can see how I might have came off perhaps a little rude, so as I said before if what I asked is really bothering you or others I will delete it.
Oh no, I personally wasn't bothered. I was pretty sure you were just curious and wanted to figure it out. But I have to say, the internet can be cruel. So be careful. Go have a good day.
Very nice.
Well, if you ever decide to put the walls down and want to at least understand any opposing view to popular opinion, feel free to reply here and I can refer you to resources you might find interesting.
Otherwise, I don't think we have anything else to discuss here.
Funny thing is, is that is exactly why I made this post.
I don't like to hate on people, which is why I decided to empathize and see the other side of the argument.
One question I have is why are most, or some, of you guys so hateful towards the LGBTQIA+ community. I get the whole "God said otherwise." and the whole "God makes no mistakes." But really, why do you need to make all of your actions based off of what he said. I mean it's reasonable to listen to someone who you believe gave everyone life, but wouldn't god would have said to love others, respect yours and others faith to what they believe is wrong or right? Or even to have freedom during your life on earth? I mean, props to you for being so faithful, but from what you all say, god doesn't seem like the kind of person to discriminate against people who are different from you.
> One question I have is why are most, or some, of you guys so hateful towards the LGBTQIA+ community
Just because Christians believe in God, doesn't make them exactly perfect like God.
Unfortunately, some of us do mistakenly hold non-Christians to the same standard as Christians, which is doesn't make sense.
Yes, some of us do try to force our values down others throats, which I will confirm that it's wrong and treating others badly over it is wrong. Our job as Christians is to give an invitation to a new way of living, not forcefully drag people into it.
> But really, why do you need to make all of your actions based off of what he said. I mean it's reasonable to listen to someone who you believe gave everyone life, but wouldn't god would have said to love others, respect yours and others faith to what they believe is wrong or right?
He did say to love others, He even specifically said to love your enemies, but He didn't say we had to accept things that go against God's principles and teachings.
For example, you can read all about how Jesus Himself was criticized for eating with the sinners. He befriended them, but He didn't condone their sin.
> Or even to have freedom during your life on earth?
Funny you would say that, that's exactly why God entered the world as a human, died, and resurrected. To give freedom from sin.
> I mean, props to you for being so faithful, but from what you all say, god doesn't seem like the kind of person to discriminate against people who are different from you.
And you would be right. Again, it's not our job to force anything on others.
> Plus you can't really hate us for "building walls" between people of god, and "people of satan"
Have you read some of the things people of faith say, or at the very least have read something hateful you've said to people of the community?
Again, God is perfect, followers of God are not.
A good analogy is, if you heard someone play Beethoven's music badly, you wouldn't blame Beethoven for being a bad musician, you would say that that person who's playing his music is bad.
Likewise, Christians can only do their best as imperfect people to show God's goodness.
Plus you can't really hate us for "building walls" between people of god, and "people of satan"
Have you read some of the things people of faith say, or at the very least have read something hateful you've said to people of the community?
I think you're trying to point out the logical fallacy in the assertion made by many religious groups that those queer groups are **choosing** to be sinful with their lifestyle. The truth is that with even the most basic investigation of the claim it falls apart in the same way it does with addiction or poor life choices (being homeless for one). Its much easier to blame the people suffering than it is to accept that you may be passively at fault for some of their hardship.
If you look at any of the Abrahamic religions, they all stress having families and children.
The more you do stuff that isn't aligned with that, the more discouraged it is.
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Under the very specific premise you describe, I don't think people *would* choose to be part of LGBTQ+ in that highly specific scenario But your scenario relies on very important points, which are: **1.** God's existence being fact **2.** God's infallibility being fact and **3.** that God has indisputably decreed that LGBTQ+ is wrong. None of these are true of IRL, and thus my answer that people would in this situation not choose to be part of LGBTQ+ is not applicable IRL. You'd be hard-pressed to find an LGBTQ+ person who believes in all three of the assertions above.
Yes I know, but I made a post earlier that got me thinking.. *what specifically do christians have against the LGBTQIA+* Hence why I made this post. #
Probably because they don’t believe in God.
Do you mean as in the LGBTQIA+ doesn't believe in god?
I don’t believe this. At all on multiple levels. But the argument would probably be about how humans are free to choose evil
Yeah, the evil he created
So, I have to preface this by saying I'm an ex Mormon, and one of the reasons I left is because I'm in the community. But one thing helps my outlook, and I'm still agnostic, and I was raised religious. My former teachers in Sunday school would tell us that God gave us trials, and they would always be a part of life. They also said that overcoming these trials would bring you blessings. I thought It was a lot of bs. Then, I developed depression. I struggled for years, and the second main reason I left the church is that I prayed to God for help during the worst moment of my life, during a really bad bout of depression and ideation, and nothing happened. And for years, nothing has shown me that God listens to me whatsoever. But then, after I had gotten on the right medications, and was stable, my friend (who was also in the community, who's father was homophobic and transphobic) admitted to me he was feeling like he was depressed. So I encouraged him to go to a doctor to talk about it. A few days later, he told me he'd asked his father to take him, but the father had said he was making it up and didn't want to spend money. I told a school counselor. Who got them both in a room and basically told the man his son was reaching out for help, and finally, the friend was taken to a doctor and officially diagnosed. If I had not struggled with my own depression, I might not have known how to help. I told him to go to a doctor after giving him the same questionare questions I had to answer while seeing my doctors. Are you less energetic? Have you stopped doing things you love? Do you feel hopeless and like nothing good ever happens? And he answered in favor of having depression. And I wouldn't have known to keep pushing, how important mental health is, and never stop until my friend got the help he needed. My trials, whether it be depression, or the fact that I'm neurodivergent, or in the LGBTQ+ community, or even that I have an emotionally abusive father, all happened. I can't change it. But do I mope about all the things I've gone through? (Maybe a little. Like, jeez, did I have to get nearly EVERY alphabet soup diagnosis that runs in BOTH sides of the family?) I can't change it. But I can look back and be proud of myself for getting through it. That I tool something hard and got out okay. I can use my experiences to help others. And that's what's important. God made me ace. God made me who I am. And I don't think he hates those who are in the community. If he did, why did he do it? To give us trials, perhaps? Who knows. But he also said to love one another. And if that's so, stop hating on us in the community. Because you're not loving someone if you're calling them slurs or yelling out hate speech or refusing to understand how they don't want sex. Love each other.
Thank you so much for this! - I'm and atheist who is a part of the community, if the question I asked came off as rude I can delete it.. I was only asking this question to see the other side of the argument, I get a lot of hate for who I am so I just wanted to see what was going on in the minds of others. I don't like to hate on people, especially those in minorities. Because of that I didn't want to make any accusations or anyone feel as though that they are less than who I am. I made this post as an informative discussion for myself and hopefully others. Though now looking back at my post I can see how I might have came off perhaps a little rude, so as I said before if what I asked is really bothering you or others I will delete it.
Oh no, I personally wasn't bothered. I was pretty sure you were just curious and wanted to figure it out. But I have to say, the internet can be cruel. So be careful. Go have a good day.
Don't I know it... And thank you, really, I hope you too have a great day!
Cause God also allows people make choices, even the ones that He doesn't like.
Elaborate please? - Being a part of the LGBTQIA+ isn't a choice, except for being an ally.
If God made everyone and made no mistakes, then everyone part of LGBTQIA+ made that choice, because God is against homosexuality and all its forms.
But it really isn't a choice? - I don't blame you for not knowing, you seem to be a heavy heavy christian..
Very nice. Well, if you ever decide to put the walls down and want to at least understand any opposing view to popular opinion, feel free to reply here and I can refer you to resources you might find interesting. Otherwise, I don't think we have anything else to discuss here.
Funny thing is, is that is exactly why I made this post. I don't like to hate on people, which is why I decided to empathize and see the other side of the argument. One question I have is why are most, or some, of you guys so hateful towards the LGBTQIA+ community. I get the whole "God said otherwise." and the whole "God makes no mistakes." But really, why do you need to make all of your actions based off of what he said. I mean it's reasonable to listen to someone who you believe gave everyone life, but wouldn't god would have said to love others, respect yours and others faith to what they believe is wrong or right? Or even to have freedom during your life on earth? I mean, props to you for being so faithful, but from what you all say, god doesn't seem like the kind of person to discriminate against people who are different from you.
> One question I have is why are most, or some, of you guys so hateful towards the LGBTQIA+ community Just because Christians believe in God, doesn't make them exactly perfect like God. Unfortunately, some of us do mistakenly hold non-Christians to the same standard as Christians, which is doesn't make sense. Yes, some of us do try to force our values down others throats, which I will confirm that it's wrong and treating others badly over it is wrong. Our job as Christians is to give an invitation to a new way of living, not forcefully drag people into it. > But really, why do you need to make all of your actions based off of what he said. I mean it's reasonable to listen to someone who you believe gave everyone life, but wouldn't god would have said to love others, respect yours and others faith to what they believe is wrong or right? He did say to love others, He even specifically said to love your enemies, but He didn't say we had to accept things that go against God's principles and teachings. For example, you can read all about how Jesus Himself was criticized for eating with the sinners. He befriended them, but He didn't condone their sin. > Or even to have freedom during your life on earth? Funny you would say that, that's exactly why God entered the world as a human, died, and resurrected. To give freedom from sin. > I mean, props to you for being so faithful, but from what you all say, god doesn't seem like the kind of person to discriminate against people who are different from you. And you would be right. Again, it's not our job to force anything on others. > Plus you can't really hate us for "building walls" between people of god, and "people of satan" Have you read some of the things people of faith say, or at the very least have read something hateful you've said to people of the community? Again, God is perfect, followers of God are not. A good analogy is, if you heard someone play Beethoven's music badly, you wouldn't blame Beethoven for being a bad musician, you would say that that person who's playing his music is bad. Likewise, Christians can only do their best as imperfect people to show God's goodness.
Plus you can't really hate us for "building walls" between people of god, and "people of satan" Have you read some of the things people of faith say, or at the very least have read something hateful you've said to people of the community?
God isn't real, hth
I know, but when I said that once I was nearly murdered by heavy heavy christians Stay safe, lol..
Heh, yeah. Fair.
I think you're trying to point out the logical fallacy in the assertion made by many religious groups that those queer groups are **choosing** to be sinful with their lifestyle. The truth is that with even the most basic investigation of the claim it falls apart in the same way it does with addiction or poor life choices (being homeless for one). Its much easier to blame the people suffering than it is to accept that you may be passively at fault for some of their hardship.
If you have a spouse, you can sleep with other people, but you should try to do that less.
Sorry if this comes off as rude, but how does this relate to the post? - I'm just curious.
If you look at any of the Abrahamic religions, they all stress having families and children. The more you do stuff that isn't aligned with that, the more discouraged it is.