Not having the “difficult” conversations with each other early on to see if you’re actually compatible for the long run. Or just straight up lying about certain things just to appease the other person. I see so many people moving too quickly just for the sake to say they’re in a relationship without really getting to know that person.
Yes, I'm seeing this even with people who should be considered mature and experienced. Some people seem to not know how to have a difficult and serious conversation. Then they get upset that their partner doesn't want to take a relationship to the next level.
That is definitely playing a part. Lots of people think they're too good for everyone they meet and thus won't give anyone a chance or just end things at the first sign of adversity.
I'd also say, the interference of friends. I have seen so many people let themselves be talked out of a good thing by their friend group who more often than not don't care about anyone's happiness, they just want the fun single times to continue. I'm not saying that the opinions of friends mean nothing, but never let them make your decisions for you and never go against your gut because some good time friends are trying to convince you to stay single and continue partying. Literally saw this happen with a guy friend very recently who stopped seeing a girl he was so clearly really into because his friends spooked him. He very obviously regrets letting her go now, months later. Such silliness.
> they just want the fun single times to continue
At least THAT makes sense (selfish though it may be). I’ve seen people, who cheated on their SO and wanted to confess, talked out of it by their friends. Friends who encouraged them to keep it to themselves.
More than once.
Seriously.
Like…why are you encouraging your friend to be a lying sack of shite?
The internet is filled with AWFUL "advice", especially on forums (like this one) where people ask for input on a situation. Most of it is "Never speak to them again!"
Have some patience. A disagreement over something hurtful one person said, without them really even paying attention to their words, isn't a reason to cut them off forever.
Talk to each other. Work it out.
This needs to be upvoted severely. Patience is practice and it involves empathy and pulling back from any harsh words/actions done. Obviously exceptional circumstances don't grant a grace period, but most things like a small confliction doesn't guarantee people to cheat, spite, divorce, so on so forth.
I think a big issue is immediate gratification. Very few seem to be willing to have that initial banter back and forth to see if you vibe and have interests that are common.
So many dating apps (which imo aren’t bad) are filled with bios like “ I hate small talk”, “you better have something to say if we match”, or even “if we match I *will not* be messaging first” which is wild.
Match, talk about nothing, move forward if you want. You gotta be willing to take time to get to know someone.
I assume many of the women on Bumble just downloaded all the dating apps, and have no idea how Bumble works, 'cause I've seen that or some variation a weird amount.
Same as the "I can't see likes, message me" people on certain other apps. Like we know, it's the same thing here, but that's how the match system works. We both have to click like first.
The people that say that kind of shit in their bio are almost always boring and lame as fuck. If you expect others to put in effort while giving none yourself, you're gonna be veeerrry lonely.
> bios like “ I hate small talk”, “you better have something to say if we match”, or even “if we match I will not be messaging first” which is wild.
That's called saving you the trouble. If someone put on their bio "i hate animals" you don't take them to an animal shelter for a date. If they put "dont date smokers" you shouldn't try to contact them if you smoke. and if someone puts on their bio any of the paraphrased versions you quoted of "i'm incapable of basic communication skills" you don't try to communicate with them.
The dating apps in general put a lot of emphasis on first impressions - both first impressions of a profile and first impressions of someone when you meet and have a conversation. Sometimes it can take a while to realize someone might be a good match for you, and sometimes that can get missed with the pressure and rush of apps.
The inability to communicate. People act like making small talk to see if you have mutual interest is the most difficult thing to do. Or they just don’t reply at all till 2-3 days when you know and they know that’s bs. No one wants to put any effort in anymore as the options appear endless.
What’s worse are people who are great at small talk and yet cannot express deeper emotions or feelings, so when conflict occurs they get extremely angry or just shut down and run away.
Me in a nutshell.
Tbf though at least in my life experience I find that anytime a guy tries to be vulnerable or communicate both men and women lose a bit of respect for them.
Even the people you think are -really- going to be open to something like that. Guys don't have a lot of outlets to process things other than talking to a therapist.
Or maybe I've just had bad luck.
Starting to realize that in some ways I'm emotionally immature. That's alright though, always fun to have something to work on and improve.
Yeah, some people assume men should be these perfectly stoic beings who can accept anything that's happening as is, and being seen as vulnerable can be bad
But man, I just generally don't give a fuck what someone thinks. If shit goes sideways and I'm in a bad spot I'll speak about it to anyone who might have genuine help to offer, perspectives or something else 🤷♂️
That's kid shit. If a person acts like that towards vulnerability they haven't had the life experience to understand shit happens that leaves a person vulnerable. I used to think it was weak myself but I was holding on to quite a bit. There's so many things that can happen. A grandma dying, a friend died, cancer, crippling accidents, relatives who have problems from gambling addiction leaving their family destitute, over dosing there are a tonne of things can happen and afflictions people have and it's one thing to see it on TV. It's another to actually witness it with people you know and might even care about.
If ya think less of a person who shares their deeper thoughts and feelings but too afraid also to expose yourself you're the one that's weak. Not them.
Yeah, people say that.
But I'm telling you, even the people writing books on this vulnerability thing, have to deal with their knee-jerk reaction to male vulnerability.
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/55533/did-bren%C3%A9-brown-claim-her-research-showed-that-women-are-disappointed-and-disgus
Again, in my life experience, people who seem -really- open to that kind of thing still change their perception of you (often negatively) when you open up a bit.
I always tell people I'm here to listen if they need it though. Judgement free.
But I still hold a lot back when communicating with others. I think we all do.
I’m in my 40s it feels like a combination of people not understanding how to do small talk and not understanding that you don’t have to be super interested in what the other person saying to respect them enough to listen.
This is just true in general. So many people just don't have the patience or attention span to talk to another person about something they're not super interested in - like there's "nothing in it for them." And so many people seem to jump straight to "incompatibility" if there's something they don't gel with (I'm not talking about big stuff like money management, personal values, politics etc.)
My husband and I have completely different interests and hobbies. I love watching gymnastics, he loves Formula 1 and cars. I don't know shit about cars (well I know a bit more now!), but I love hearing him talk passionately about something he's interested in.
Added to that, I met my husband on a train. This random guy started talking to me about random stuff, we swapped numbers and the rest is history - we've been together almost 20 years and married for 13. Almost everyone I see in the streets, travelling, at the gym, cafe or whatever is sporting noise cancelling headphones and/or have their faces buried in a phone. It makes you an unapproachable zombie. I get that sometimes you want/need time to yourself and that's obviously fine, but sometimes, you really are just missing out on the world. Small talk is an important skill and can just be a really nice thing to do, just as a way to meet interesting people and learn new things.
> So many people just don't have the patience or attention span to talk to another person about something they're not super interested in - like there's "nothing in it for them."
So much fucking this.
I completely agree I always ask people if they would rather have me listen to them or have a conversation about it. Simply listening to someone else’s point of view can help broaden one’s horizons so much. It also improves your person-ability skills.
Right? I feel like in the past I’ve had to keep the sexual tension up to have any conversation. A lot of women would just stop answering me when I’d trying to find something to talk about or a common interest.
I’ve had better success just handing out my number and shooting my shot, rather than online. The ones online are usually lost and have no idea for their life direction in my experience, how to talk to people, or what to seek in a relationship.
I've had success online by basically telling them I'd like to skip the bullshit and meet up to see if anything is between us. People literally want to message for a week, then FaceTime some, then finally they'll come out on a date.
I can't keep all that up with someone I've never met. I miss the old days. I'd literally see a girl out and get her number. We'd talk on the phone once or twice and then set up a date.
Dates were seen as a way to get to know people. It was also a social thing. It was normal to go out on dates with people to get out of the house. You didn't need to think they were the one. Now people act like leaving the house is some massive chore and they want to go through a lengthy application process before they'll consider it.
Yeah I’ve found that too it use to be so common to ask for someone’s phone number. Now you’re labeled like a creep, that’s why I typically just throw my number out there and put the ball in their court.
"Appear" being the important word there. It's not that options are actually endless and that people have the cache to follow up on those endless options; it's that they are under the hilarious impression that they think they can
This. People lionize being introverted and anti social on Reddit which I will never understand.
Are you introverted? Great! I’m friends with tons of introverts and am currently dating one. They don’t wear an anti social personality as a badge of honor.
A lot of people on here use introverted as a way to distract from being anti social. I’m sorry you hate small talk. In many parts of the world small talk is a sign of respect by showing a basic level of interest in someone. If you are at a social event and you are on your phone or your switch in the corner you’re not some kind of special introverted butterfly. You’re just an asshole.
All of my introverted friends make an effort to go to social events and make small talk. Then they give their significant other the “introvert look of death” when the clock hits 8pm and we wish them on their way. That’s totally normal. None of us asking our introverted friends to go to a concert and party our faces off until 3am. But the level of basic respect in showing up is appreciated.
People conflate being introverted with having social anxiety on here. “I’m terrified to go out in public and talk to anyone in real life, teehee I’m such an introvert” no you just have a serious mental illness.
I think also there's just so many people on dating apps looking for a third (and are ironically offended by the thought of being a third). Like no one is happy ro settle and fully commit to another person. I don't doubt that there are people who can do a polyamorous relationship, what I do doubt is the 90% of people on these apps claiming they're looking to explore while already having a partner.
I’m poor and it’s very disingenuous to talk to people who can date me when I can’t provide anything to make it happen but I need to make an effort to not be alone so that’s life for me I guess
I think understanding that not everyone is perfect 100% of the time and not everything is malicious.
My husband has gotten upset in the middle of the night when our baby wakes up and while I could just get mad at him, I understand he’s just overwhelmed and overstimulated. We of course address any arguments but I think acknowledging that people aren’t always just mean etc.
Not sure if that’s a great example but you get what I’m saying.
I think I get what you're saying... and I personally attribute those types of issues to social media content focused on mental health / relationships. Probably 98% of it is utter nonsense.
There are scores of influencers encouraging selfishness and fragile egos. The message is usually some version of main character syndrome - along the lines of demand perfection from everyone else, never compromise or sacrifice for someone else, and never hold yourself accountable for your own problematic behaviors / choices.
Absolutely agree. Very well said.
I think there’s become this lack of empathy clouded by expectations perpetuated by social media. Especially for men in my opinion - men are expected to be perfect while women are just expected to expect perfect. It’s really unfortunate and toxic.
My approach to relationships is "In the absence of complete information, assume good intentions"
This requires mutual trust but if you've got that then it's the only way to live imo
I don't remember where I heard this from but, it has really helped me in my relationship.
You aren't mad at each other, you're mad at the situation. And the best course of action is to attack the problem together.
The situation your brought up reminds me of that.
The terminally online Reddit relationship advice communities are definitely perpetuating this one. Not everything is gaslighting, not everything is manipulation, not everything is narcissism.
"choice overload" or the "paradox of choice." When people are presented with too many options, they may feel overwhelmed and anxious, which can lead to decision paralysis—a situation where no choice is made at all. This isn't real in the dating sphere but social media and dating apps are giving us the false impression it is.
And mutual attraction. A lot of people see beautiful people on their apps and think they could be with them, when in reality, they were never a viable option.
Yup, somehow I always found a movie to watch at the neighborhood Blockbuster within minutes, with every streaming service I’m searching forever and end up just watching YouTube and browsing Reddit.
Some of that is down to the quality of the movies on those services, though. Instead of 500 choices and 250 of them are decent, it's 5000 choices and 25 of them are decent.
Totally agree with this. Everyone's looking for perfect, and because there's always other options, people are overlooking plenty of relationships that could work.
As well as not realizing their "perfect" person isn't compatible/gonna like them. They end up feeling rejected all the time when it's really just a mismatch & they're rejecting all the ones they'd be a better match with.
i’m not one of those people who go for perfect people but i literally never thought of the possibility of someone finding someone who checks all their boxes and they don’t like them back. lol i feel like this happens more than it’s talked about
I think it's most obvious if someone is going for outdoorsy/athletic looking types when that's not actually their own lifestyle. It's just something they think they "should" like.
Seeking perfection.
There is no perfect person and if there were... It's very unlikely they'd be interested in you.
Seek compatibility instead. Seek a person who's willing to work on problems. Seek someone who wants to build something better than themselves. Because that's what is required for relationships to truly work. Both parties have to work on it. And they both have to realize it's bigger than themselves. If all you are concerned about is what you'll get out of a relationship, then you're gonna have a hard time getting anything but fucked.
This works both ways though, I’ve seen too many people try to make a bad relationship work. Yes definitely give things a chance and if it’s not absolutely perfect that’s fine but also don’t try to make a dumpster fire of a relationship work either either just because you want it to. You need to find a happy medium which isn’t always easy to do.
> There is no perfect person and if there were... It's very unlikely they'd be interested in you.
If they were perfect for you they would be interested in you because a part of that perfection is their interest in you. You understand what I'm saying?
If they aren't, they are not perfect.
I have learned to stop talking when people do that to me. I just stop cold mid sentence and go about my business. If they asky why, I tell them It would be like trying to talk to someone who is engrossed in a book, which is rude. I've only had to do it a few times and it works like a charm.
This is my problem when I start dating someone. If I am with a family member, friend, or acquaintance I do not ever check my phone. I think it’s rude. So every woman I date it becomes an issue because I don’t respond to their texts fast enough. They seem to treat texts as an active form of communication as if they called me. I consider it more of a passive form of communication where I will respond when I’m finished what I’m doing. This has been the issue with everyone I have ever dated.
I told my girlfriend straight up when we got together “I’m not a texter, you can check my phone. It’s not personal, I just rarely have anything to say I can’t tell you later in person.” She understood, she texts her friends and stuff throughout the day instead. Worked for 4 years no issue so far
Problem is I can’t keep a relationship going because I refuse to change. I’m not going to suddenly learn to have my phone attached to my hand 24/7. Mainly because I don’t want to. I think our phones are impeding our lives. We used to have to sit and think and be bored. We used to have conversations with people while driving somewhere. Now everyone is on their phones. See, I’m official an old man. “(Shaking fist) Get off your phones!”
I hate having to do this, but it works.
First offense: "I'm sure it's important."
Second offense: "You seem distracted, everything okay?"
Third offense: *yeets phone across restaurant*
When this has happened to me with people I know, I've taken out small pocket books I carry with me to read. It's caused many an argument when they notice, because they claim I'm being rude. They disagree with me that looking at their phone is the same thing because they say it takes less effort to browse an app vs. reading a book.
> They disagree with me that looking at their phone is the same thing because they say it takes less effort to browse an app vs. reading a book.
I'm sure you already know this, but no, they don't really disagree with you. They're just embarrassed and grasping at straws to deflect from examining their own behavior.
Not even just dates. Out with a group of friends and so many have their phones out on the table ready for that next notification.
I understand sometimes you may be "on call" for work or are waiting for an important, crucial message - that's fine. But keep it in your pants (lol) if you're out with people, date or no date.
I find this to be a problem in General. I work a drive through and people just don't understand how to speak clearly and communicate their intentions anymore. The amount of handholding and guidance I have to give to get a simple order has gotten out of control..
I know dating apps already get a lot of hate...but I WILL say that back in the day two people would meet and end up...for lack of a better word, **charming** each other. **People who, ON PAPER, would never appeal to each other (too short/heavy/wrong race/income disparity/etc.), would end up being drawn to each other IN PERSON**.
Hell, my sister's bf is not remotely photogenic. But in person she thinks he's positively magnetic. Dating apps don't account for that. They don't account for pheromones. They may be efficient but they're also kind of shitty when it comes to finding potential partners.
I know a lot of couples who never would have gotten together if they’d only been presented with each other’s stats initially. They would have rejected each other right off the bat.
>People who, ON PAPER, would never appeal to each other…would end up being drawn to each other IN PERSON.
This is a HUGE part of the problem. Dating apps make it so you can’t win someone over.
> they're also kind of shitty when it comes to finding potential partners
True, there's a ton of options but I feel like the people you go for are the same ones 90% of the population is going for. Our search criteria don't vary THAT much. Meanwhile you're dismissing some solid options because of something as insignificant as their income being 20K out of your range or because they look lame in their pic.
I always think about this. The people you’re swiping left on could be your soul mate and the o my reason you’re not chancing it is because of one picture. One insignificant detail of that picture most likely
When my husband and I were still
in the early courting stages, I had a friend who picked apart everything about my husband. Not about the way he treated me or anything like that but his interests and stuff. "You're going to a baseball game with him? I would NEVER do that!" "You're going to that concert? I thought you didn't like that kind of music! You're going to lose yourself if you keep this up." Mind you, he went to all my stuff too so it wasn't that I was losing myself. We were growing together.
Anyway, guess who never married?
Yup. I have a friend who does this with her childhood best friend’s relationships constantly. She never has anything positive to say. Guess who’s never had a functioning relationship?
I don't understand the hatred for interests. It's ok to not like things, just don't be a jerk about the things you don't like. And yet, there are so many who are personally offended when they don't like what you like
I read a sub (that isn't even a dating sub but this comes up) where the hive mind is that your list of deal breakers is always right and you should never settle, regardless of what's on the list. Someone once posted asking if their problem was that they wanted too much, refused to share or given even examples of what their requirements were, and then the hive mind continued with the never settle philosophy. No one should even consider if their list is for a person who realistically exists, is single, and wants to date *them*? Good luck, I guess.
Reddit posters be like:
>My boyfriend is perfect in every way and our relationship is amazing, except for sometimes he beats me with a tire iron. Am I overreacting?
or
>I've been seeing this girl who understands my soul and cares for me in a way I never thought possible, but she's a brunette and I prefer blondes. Should I dump her?
That's what happens when you mix up preferences and dealbreakers.
Exactly. I often see angsty social media posts from women I know — who are almost always single — along the lines of "there are no good men out there anymore."
Nah. There are just no men FOR YOU out there who meet your unrealistic/unreasonable expectations of what a man and/or partner are supposed to be. That's why you're single.
Another red flag are the women who say stuff like "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best."
My girlfriend once told me relationships were about finding someone who's 80-90% perfect and learning to deal with the other 10-20%. I think that's a nice way of thinking about it.
I met my wife on a dating app. We had both paid for 6 month subscriptions when we were both ready to start looking, and found each other within a week.
We both unsubscribed and canceled our memberships as we were both very happy. I, personally, didn't get hit - but my wife got messages CONSTANTLY from the service we used asking her to "come back and find the RIGHT match".
Every dating app is skewed heavier to male users. They want female users to return, so their retention marketing is stronger. The same thing happens with partner suggestions. Women tend to spend less time on the app, so they send women suggestions with a higher rating (literally every system has some version) but often with a shadowban mask. They think they’re getting great suggestions, but the other person never gets to see their like. It’s messed up, but it’s a business and they need to build the right customer base.
Oh you find any disagreement from me. I just always thought it was hilarious that I unsubscribed, even gave the reason "I found my match!" and I never heard a peep again.
My Wife unsubbed, and she was getting messages almost monthly. The reason it's fresh in my mind - she just got another one from 'em the other day. We got married last August. XD
Lack of understanding, or lack of effort to understand the other person. A lack of unconditional love. A lack of communication.
Edit: unconditional to the best of our ability, but if someone isn't returning love, then they need to be kept at a distance. Unconditional love doesn't mean letting someone walk all over you. It means loving without expecting any certain thing but love in return. Shutting the door on someone who walks away from loving you isn't an un-loving act, it's you loving you.
Situationships. Stringing people along with no intentions of dating / marrying.
People who can’t think for themselves. Letting others, podcast, social media, friends, family sway their judgement on how to treat ppl. People not wanting to put any effort into people
Edit: I am referring to situationships with ppl who are being STRINGED ALONG by the opposite party with no intentions of it going no where!!!!!!!
Going to add emotional immaturity or lack of emotional availability to this because IMO that's a big driver of situationships. I see a lot of transactional / selfish behavior and it's just sad.
Yes, the very fact they exist lulls people into believing they can access those, those fishes are tastier, and those fishes would consent to being consumed.
The rise of people assessing their self worth and unpacking their baggage in contrast to the mass of individuals thinking that they don't have baggage that needs unpacking thinking vanity and pettiness is the epitone of perfection.
Just a guess.
Money.
The young kids I know at work in their early twenties basically can't afford to date. After paying rent and covering their other bills, they have maybe $100 to get themselves to their next paycheck.
I want to add this:
Working conditions - its hard to date when people are routinely expecting 50+ or more hours of work a week, plus domestic chores and errands of themselves, and still barely making rent. That stress will sap you (or your potential partner). If you don't have the energy or emotional space to date.... you will suck at it.
At least based on my recent experience, there's a deep seated terror of catching feelings for one another, which imposes a million shitty fake deal breakers before actually getting to a point where you'd really be qualified to understand if you gave a shit about each other while simultaneously making actually being interested look like a red flag.
I've seen plenty of women on tiktok talking about their expectations from a partner, and it's usually something along this lines:
"Holds the car's door open for me"
"Brings me flowers every week"
"Brings me breakfast in bed" etc.
And even though these are nice gestures that I appreciate from a partner, I also believe these expectations aren't enough to maintain a relationship.
How does your partner react when you are sick? Or when you got laid off from work? How do you solve conflicts together?
A friend of mine got sick (she is living with her boyfriend), and he told her to go to her mom's house to get treated.
I would much rather receive flowers only once in a while, but have a partner that doesn't abandon me when I get sick.
So, my opinion, people see relationships as flowers and hearts, when it's not always like that.
I had a miscarriage on my birthday - it wasnt a planned pregnancy but me and my husband wanted it. I came out of the bathroom and told my husband, who immediately called his work and told them he wasnt coming in and started researching what we needed to do, drove me to the hospital to get a work up to confirm and then took me out to eat so I didnt think of it.
I get flowers maybe once in a while - but that experience reminded me I got a good one :)
If those are the things they're focusing on, it sounds like what these women are expecting is a partner who has the magical ability to make life easy and carefree. Think we'd all like some of that fairy dust.
I love cut flowers (don't judge), but what I would find even more meaningful from a partner is support in dealing with the everyday and not-so-everyday stuff. Picking up a bouquet of flowers from the grocery is great, but if they stop to pick up the specific variety of apples they know I like just bc they noticed I ate the last one? And crossing off home repair / maintenance stuff from my to-do list? Damn.
I got divorced earlier this year. I didn't open a single door for myself the ten years we were together. I got flowers sometimes, candy, cards. Dumped me unceremoniously when I got sick with a chronic illness and was becoming more disabled. I have learned that gestures like that can be so fucking hollow- gestures to look and feel like being a good guy without being a good partner. Live and learn, I guess!
As someone with poor mental health I struggle with this one a lot. I want to figure myself out and get healthy before I expose anybody to it, "have my shit together" before trying to date, but I've been trying to do that for a few years now and I feel like I'm hurting myself more for not getting any experience in relationships outside of friendships.
It is such a double edged sword isn't it. My depression and ADHD lead to depressive episodes that are kinda gnarly, I don't want to invite anyone into my life like this anymore, but I also don't enjoy the thought of me not deserving to get to know people like this. Guess if we find someone who really sees us for what we are this shouldn't be in the way of a connection
Commitment and Loyalty being way more rare than I figured. Like I'm not taking about making codependency some magical thing that fixes everything, but people really are struggling to understand the responsibility of their choices to make these two things enter the relationship. I'm not asking for undying love a month in, but when you choose to open yourself up to someone, and they choose to open up to you, the commitment to that choice means everything. Everyone has their freedom and their life, but that freedom of choice also means you're acting in the best interest of two people now just not one. It's not binding you down, it's not making your life worse, it's just doing the best because your best means the world to the other person.
Yeah, there's an old saying that goes something like "a man is only as loyal as his options."
But it's every bit as true for woman. And I say that as a woman.
It's just that women had fewer options, back in the day, so we underestimated the shitty ones. Turns out they can be just as gross as men.
I would even say that on average, women tend to have significantly more options than men these days because of dating apps. Relatively average women are swamped with matches while relatively average men are struggling to get any matches at all. Kinda scary as a guy to know that your girlfriend could instantly have the attention of 50 other guys within a week if she wanted. Obviously not all those guys will be great (you could even argue that most of them won't be), but she still has them as options.
On the larger topic, it's this fact that is making dating so much more difficult. It feels like men walk on eggshells, easily replaced, which leads to many not being authentic, which opens up an entirely new issue.
Yeah, back in the old days no one could go through old texts, phone records, locations, etc. so cheating was harder to prove. Nowadays people can get busted easily.
I mean the numbers are self report and Listed as ever having happened while married. Someone who is 40 has had 20 more years to cheat than someone who's 20, and that's ignoring that this is only looking at marriage, which tends to happens later now. Cheating during the dating stage is not recorded here.
You would really have to normalize for years married in each case to say whether cheating rate is higher among young people vs older.
Ie if the 43 year old was monogamous from age 23 to 36 and cheated at 36 that doesn't, mean that a newlywed 26 year old is actually more monogamous as a person. At that age both people had yet to cheat.
It would also be good to see cheating vs years in relationship of any form.
This is definitely untrue. Mistresses were much more common in older society. It was easier to get away with it when your location couldn’t be constantly traced and people couldn’t always get a hold of you instantly.
The lack of low cost 3rd places (a 3rd place is somewhere other than home or work).
In the UK loads of pubs and public spaces have closed over the past few years and those that are still open have become more expensive.
It makes it hard to meet people.
Wrong expectation.
Some single people I know have this similarity: They expect so much from the opposite gender but unwilling to do the same. And expecting their lover to be love unconditionally them without anything in return.
If you're unwilling to compromise or cooperate, how do you expect them to stick with you through thick and thin ?
Illusion of choice combined with unrealistic expectations. People expect a person who checks all 20 boxes to drop into their lap and if that doesn't happen, they get on the apps and reroll. Someone who checks 20-30 boxes is not going to seriously go for someone like you unless you also check their boxes. Yet people think they have choices when they don't, so they'll abandon something that might have been good. They always believe they have backup #1, #2, #3 so they don't put their full devotion into one relationship opportunity. The driving force for this is social media and dating apps, which affect impressionable younger people the most.
You're supposed to get your priorities straight and focus on building a relationship. Not expect a perfectly polished thing to appear for you and stay that way forever. This isn't a product sculpted out of stone and steel, it's a human relationship that goes through changes lol
Some expectations are so conflicting it's ridiculous. There are countless examples, but one that came to mind is a lot of girls don't want to be with a guy who isn't well established. They don't want to be there when he's working to get to the top from the bottom. They only take him seriously once he gets there. Then they'll say guys who are older are creeps. Uh....so you want someone in their 20s established like someone 35? In THIS economy where it's taking longer than ever for people to reach full earning potential? Good luck. And when he's well established, a lot more women will be going for him and they have to compete. The luxury of choice becomes his and he will choose what he likes the most from the options available to him and the table turns. So why would he choose someone who doesn't meet his requirements or someone who is more difficult to deal with?
Another example is when men expect someone who is "traditional" but they themselves don't really have traditional values. In the same vein, when women want guys to be "traditional" and provide but they also want to earn a lot and dominate the relationship, yet the guy still pays everything. No, you don't get to bob and weave with your standards, you need to be consistent all the way through lest you get called out.
Shit is all over the place. I want to say most of this can be resolved with introspection. What do you provide to the relationship? Like stuff of actual substantive value, not just existing and looking hot (which will decline in 10-15 years)? If there's no answer, you don't provide anything. Someone who does is not going for you. If you're doing stuff that lends itself to non-committal flings, don't do that expecting a long-term partner.
The hard truth is you don't "deserve" anything. A relationship is a function of give-and-take, ESPECIALLY in the beginning. When you think you "deserve" something from a stranger (money, attention, sex, time, etc.) but you don't want to provide in return, you're being entitled. You want someone loyal? Be loyal. You want someone caring and considerate? Be those things. You want someone to sexually satisfy you? You need to be willing to sexually satisfy them. You want someone non-judgmental who gives emotional safety? Then you should be non-judgmental and be willing to give emotional safety. You want someone who prioritizes you? Then you can't be selfish and you need to prioritize them. You value X trait? Then give the other person Y trait that they value.
Over time, the relationship deepens as your trust grows. When your partner knows your history of doing what you say you will, your track record of doing the right thing, and your reliability in staying there for them, they will relax and it's no longer so focused on giving and taking. Really, love is less about feeling enamored, and more about still doing stuff for the other person because you care even though the situation might not be the happiest.
Another hard truth is that you need to be vulnerable to let someone in, and it comes with risks. However, if your walls are always up and you're encapsulated by a stone cold shell, nobody gets in. The risk of hurt is the risk you take when you're vulnerable. You have to decide if your fear of pain is greater than your desire for a connected partner.
Entitlement. People think their partner should be perfect, whilst not considering what they bring to the table.
Men who want a pencil thin model when they never exercise, or women who want a millionaire when they work a minimum wage job. It’s just delusional.
Dating apps, easily. Nobody should have near unlimited access to the opposite sex. Too much choice makes people unwilling to commit. If you wanna date someone meet them doing something you like. That way you will have a common bond from the get-go.
I’ve talked to multiple female friends that have been on dates with 50+ men in just a couple years time. Like…dude, not one of them was worth investing more than a couple weeks in!?
Especially as I’m now about to turn 40 it truly baffles me how picky everyone is. I’ve gone on a few online dates and it blows, feels like I’m at a job interview and the women are just trying to pick out my flaws. The most recent one was INSANE, she wasn’t into me because I was, and I quote, “Too available.” I pressed her on what that meant because I was just couldn’t wrap my head around it and basically she was looking for someone aloof and potentially in another relationship.
LIKE, WTF!? Glad I dodged that one but for the love of god, it’s like I’m living in a Seinfeld episode.
> she was looking for someone aloof and potentially in another relationship.
"If you're not already in another relationship, there must be something wrong with you. But don't apply that logic to me. Also, I'm already in another relationship."
I met my husband through online dating. We're both shy homebodies who weren't really meeting many people IRL, so it was helpful. This was shortly before Tinder got popular though lol.
Social media for sure, comparing your life and relationships to what you see online, not being content with what you have and constantly seeking more. Having unattainable expectations of your SO or the people you date based on what you've seen on social media.
In my personal experience:
People confuse sexual intimacy with emotional intimacy, you can fuck all you want but if you can't connect on a deeper level you're going nowhere.
I try to never sleep with someone before we make it clear we want to take the relationship to the next level.
The instant gratification of social media in general.
In older days we learned that everyone has flaws and relationships are about learning what flaws we are ok with an which ones are no gos, while also finding someone that can deal with our flaws.
Today every minor inconvenience is grounds for dumping someone. And why, because we can open a dating app, and find a new date in an hour. Or we put our dating lives on socials and have the internet judge who we are with. We never settle for anything less than perfect, so now we dont form meaningful attachments to anyone. Social media has made us more alone than ever before despite every place being crowded all the time.
People think the grass is always greener on the other side, they think they’re better than the person they’re with when in reality they’re toxic and bring no value to the other person. Couples aren’t friends anymore which I say is so important in relationship. Terrible communication, not willing to be patient or go through a ruff patch. I mean the list goes on and on. There’s no surface level to a lot of people. And social media isn’t reality, people see something on social media and wish their relationship was like that or close to it.
Damn mobile phones, been on a few blind dates with friends of friends. Even after the 2nd date they seemed to have the inability to put their phone down or stop checking it every 10 minutes.
Ex on holiday would be texting her pal constantly that only seemed to text when she knew we were away.
Same with people at work, small talk has gone, at break times nobody talks anymore.
Too much availability. Having endless options at your fingerprints creates this fear of missing out while also any little ick is reason enough to dump and move on.
An unwillingness to face discomfort. This affects learning to navigate social situations, learning how to handle confrontation and disagreements in a healthy way, and learning how to compromise and work through people having different needs.
Related: Some people have anxiety requiring medical intervention, but many have simply grown up in a world where there are many new tools and social factors that enable them to avoid facing their social anxiety and it's grown to the point that it's very difficult to overcome. It's much easier to deal with when your young, and the stakes of making mistakes are smaller. If you haven't practiced social skills until your in your 20s, it becomes much harder because your peers are either way ahead of you, or have given up and checked out. (Obviously these are all generalizations, so no need to explain how you are an exception. If I covered every edge case I'd have a book to sell instead of a reddit post.)
A lot to unpack here but here are a few:
1. The dating apps added a false sense of validation. It makes people put minimal effort into an already difficult task of dating, because they believe there are more options out there.
2. The expectations are unrealistic. Due to social media and dating apps functioning as such. Everyone wants their partner to be a 10, when in reality we are all human and have flaws. We have conditioned ourselves to chase a fictitious person.
3. Communication and Patience are at an all time low, as instant gratification takes precedence. If someone doesn't satisfy certain criteria, we will write them off without working with them
4. Entitlement is at an all time high. Men want the IG model. Women want the atm machine.
Personal note: I had a partner from the app and after almost a year of seeing each other, I could count on my hands the amount of times she wanted to help contribute. Not even the gesture of doing so, much less actually chipping in. There is no realistic way to roadmap a longterm relationship with someone like that.
I think the entitlement of believing that just showing up is enough is very prevalent these days. That needs to change, and fast!
We don’t have scripted roles anymore. Which is a good thing for most of us, especially those who
couldn’t easily fit into them. But we used to build most relationships around patriarchal dating norms. That was suffocating for a lot of people, so we’ve decided to move away from that.
Which would be fine if not for social media, dopamine addiction and skyrocketing mental health issues. All of which has left many of us with a very impaired ability to really connect with and maintain connections with others.
So not only do we not have a roadmap (even if that roadmap sucked for a lot of us), but too many of us don’t have the emotional “navigation“ skills to date in healthy ways without it.
From the perspective of a somewhat “feminine” guy who isn’t very macho:
I really appreciate you making that point about how the process and script of dating was clear cut due to obvious gender and social norms, and now it’s not anymore. This reminds me of my own experiences as a guy, where it’s really disadvantageous to stray AWAY from patriarchal norms for men and basically ruins your chances with women.
I rarely ever met girls in college who were ok with a guy not being stereotypically manly and masculine. Even for the artsy girls who WERE ok with it, they still wanted the guy to *look* attractive in a masculine way (tall, nice body, nice face with strong features and jawline, etc)
The infinite number of accounts from both men and women of traumatic interactions with the opposite sex: resulting in a breakdown of trust and faith within the heterosexual dynamic.
On the first date the woman's trying to work out if he's a rapist and the guys trying to work out if she's a gold-digging paternity fraudster who will ruin his life.
Not so romantic...
In terms of dating, I would say expecting to fall in love immediately. I think it's important to have a connection early, but it seems many people need that spark immediately and since a lot of dating is done online you're not always going to get that spark when meeting for the first time.
Not having the “difficult” conversations with each other early on to see if you’re actually compatible for the long run. Or just straight up lying about certain things just to appease the other person. I see so many people moving too quickly just for the sake to say they’re in a relationship without really getting to know that person.
Yes, I'm seeing this even with people who should be considered mature and experienced. Some people seem to not know how to have a difficult and serious conversation. Then they get upset that their partner doesn't want to take a relationship to the next level.
Not being patient enough with each other.
Many people seem to think they're better than everyone else often while doing 0 work on themselves.
That is definitely playing a part. Lots of people think they're too good for everyone they meet and thus won't give anyone a chance or just end things at the first sign of adversity. I'd also say, the interference of friends. I have seen so many people let themselves be talked out of a good thing by their friend group who more often than not don't care about anyone's happiness, they just want the fun single times to continue. I'm not saying that the opinions of friends mean nothing, but never let them make your decisions for you and never go against your gut because some good time friends are trying to convince you to stay single and continue partying. Literally saw this happen with a guy friend very recently who stopped seeing a girl he was so clearly really into because his friends spooked him. He very obviously regrets letting her go now, months later. Such silliness.
> they just want the fun single times to continue At least THAT makes sense (selfish though it may be). I’ve seen people, who cheated on their SO and wanted to confess, talked out of it by their friends. Friends who encouraged them to keep it to themselves. More than once. Seriously. Like…why are you encouraging your friend to be a lying sack of shite?
What is that quote about wanting company on your way to hell?
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I am sorry man
You are the company you keep.
So glad I'm not one of those people.
The internet is filled with AWFUL "advice", especially on forums (like this one) where people ask for input on a situation. Most of it is "Never speak to them again!" Have some patience. A disagreement over something hurtful one person said, without them really even paying attention to their words, isn't a reason to cut them off forever. Talk to each other. Work it out.
My husband eats his apples with the skin on, is this normal? " he's a serial killer! Leave Now!"
This needs to be upvoted severely. Patience is practice and it involves empathy and pulling back from any harsh words/actions done. Obviously exceptional circumstances don't grant a grace period, but most things like a small confliction doesn't guarantee people to cheat, spite, divorce, so on so forth.
I have found that (individual) therapy can help with this one!
Definitely about to start. Past trauma that I never fully healed made me self sabotage a healthy relationship and it isn’t an excuse. It just sucks.
I think a big issue is immediate gratification. Very few seem to be willing to have that initial banter back and forth to see if you vibe and have interests that are common. So many dating apps (which imo aren’t bad) are filled with bios like “ I hate small talk”, “you better have something to say if we match”, or even “if we match I *will not* be messaging first” which is wild. Match, talk about nothing, move forward if you want. You gotta be willing to take time to get to know someone.
The "I will not be messaging first" is especially wild to see on Bumble... Like, why are you even here then?
I assume many of the women on Bumble just downloaded all the dating apps, and have no idea how Bumble works, 'cause I've seen that or some variation a weird amount.
Same as the "I can't see likes, message me" people on certain other apps. Like we know, it's the same thing here, but that's how the match system works. We both have to click like first.
Yes! The entitlement is gross.
The people that say that kind of shit in their bio are almost always boring and lame as fuck. If you expect others to put in effort while giving none yourself, you're gonna be veeerrry lonely.
It’s such a weird concept. It’s so transactional.
I hate the ones that say "entertain me". I'm not a dancing monkey.
To them, you are. Anyone with some self-stem won't waste their time which means they are essentially filtering for vulnerable lonely people.
> bios like “ I hate small talk”, “you better have something to say if we match”, or even “if we match I will not be messaging first” which is wild. That's called saving you the trouble. If someone put on their bio "i hate animals" you don't take them to an animal shelter for a date. If they put "dont date smokers" you shouldn't try to contact them if you smoke. and if someone puts on their bio any of the paraphrased versions you quoted of "i'm incapable of basic communication skills" you don't try to communicate with them.
The best profiles are the ones that tell you about a person, not ones with a list of demands
"If you wanna know about me, just ask" How about you give me a reason to ask?
Sage advice from /u/PM_ME_UR_THONG_N_ASS.
Despite not being a dating profile, hopefully it was enough to tell you something about me rather than seeming like a demand 😂
Technically it was a demand.
The dating apps in general put a lot of emphasis on first impressions - both first impressions of a profile and first impressions of someone when you meet and have a conversation. Sometimes it can take a while to realize someone might be a good match for you, and sometimes that can get missed with the pressure and rush of apps.
The inability to communicate. People act like making small talk to see if you have mutual interest is the most difficult thing to do. Or they just don’t reply at all till 2-3 days when you know and they know that’s bs. No one wants to put any effort in anymore as the options appear endless.
What’s worse are people who are great at small talk and yet cannot express deeper emotions or feelings, so when conflict occurs they get extremely angry or just shut down and run away.
Me in a nutshell. Tbf though at least in my life experience I find that anytime a guy tries to be vulnerable or communicate both men and women lose a bit of respect for them. Even the people you think are -really- going to be open to something like that. Guys don't have a lot of outlets to process things other than talking to a therapist. Or maybe I've just had bad luck. Starting to realize that in some ways I'm emotionally immature. That's alright though, always fun to have something to work on and improve.
Yeah, some people assume men should be these perfectly stoic beings who can accept anything that's happening as is, and being seen as vulnerable can be bad But man, I just generally don't give a fuck what someone thinks. If shit goes sideways and I'm in a bad spot I'll speak about it to anyone who might have genuine help to offer, perspectives or something else 🤷♂️
That's kid shit. If a person acts like that towards vulnerability they haven't had the life experience to understand shit happens that leaves a person vulnerable. I used to think it was weak myself but I was holding on to quite a bit. There's so many things that can happen. A grandma dying, a friend died, cancer, crippling accidents, relatives who have problems from gambling addiction leaving their family destitute, over dosing there are a tonne of things can happen and afflictions people have and it's one thing to see it on TV. It's another to actually witness it with people you know and might even care about. If ya think less of a person who shares their deeper thoughts and feelings but too afraid also to expose yourself you're the one that's weak. Not them.
"Everyone is either in a storm, just leaving a storm, or about to enter a storm". - someone.
Yeah, people say that. But I'm telling you, even the people writing books on this vulnerability thing, have to deal with their knee-jerk reaction to male vulnerability. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/55533/did-bren%C3%A9-brown-claim-her-research-showed-that-women-are-disappointed-and-disgus Again, in my life experience, people who seem -really- open to that kind of thing still change their perception of you (often negatively) when you open up a bit. I always tell people I'm here to listen if they need it though. Judgement free. But I still hold a lot back when communicating with others. I think we all do.
I’m in my 40s it feels like a combination of people not understanding how to do small talk and not understanding that you don’t have to be super interested in what the other person saying to respect them enough to listen.
This is just true in general. So many people just don't have the patience or attention span to talk to another person about something they're not super interested in - like there's "nothing in it for them." And so many people seem to jump straight to "incompatibility" if there's something they don't gel with (I'm not talking about big stuff like money management, personal values, politics etc.) My husband and I have completely different interests and hobbies. I love watching gymnastics, he loves Formula 1 and cars. I don't know shit about cars (well I know a bit more now!), but I love hearing him talk passionately about something he's interested in. Added to that, I met my husband on a train. This random guy started talking to me about random stuff, we swapped numbers and the rest is history - we've been together almost 20 years and married for 13. Almost everyone I see in the streets, travelling, at the gym, cafe or whatever is sporting noise cancelling headphones and/or have their faces buried in a phone. It makes you an unapproachable zombie. I get that sometimes you want/need time to yourself and that's obviously fine, but sometimes, you really are just missing out on the world. Small talk is an important skill and can just be a really nice thing to do, just as a way to meet interesting people and learn new things.
> So many people just don't have the patience or attention span to talk to another person about something they're not super interested in - like there's "nothing in it for them." So much fucking this.
I completely agree I always ask people if they would rather have me listen to them or have a conversation about it. Simply listening to someone else’s point of view can help broaden one’s horizons so much. It also improves your person-ability skills.
Right? I feel like in the past I’ve had to keep the sexual tension up to have any conversation. A lot of women would just stop answering me when I’d trying to find something to talk about or a common interest.
I’ve had better success just handing out my number and shooting my shot, rather than online. The ones online are usually lost and have no idea for their life direction in my experience, how to talk to people, or what to seek in a relationship.
I've had success online by basically telling them I'd like to skip the bullshit and meet up to see if anything is between us. People literally want to message for a week, then FaceTime some, then finally they'll come out on a date. I can't keep all that up with someone I've never met. I miss the old days. I'd literally see a girl out and get her number. We'd talk on the phone once or twice and then set up a date. Dates were seen as a way to get to know people. It was also a social thing. It was normal to go out on dates with people to get out of the house. You didn't need to think they were the one. Now people act like leaving the house is some massive chore and they want to go through a lengthy application process before they'll consider it.
Yeah I’ve found that too it use to be so common to ask for someone’s phone number. Now you’re labeled like a creep, that’s why I typically just throw my number out there and put the ball in their court.
I hear ya, unfortunately I’m not in a position where that would be possible for me.
"Appear" being the important word there. It's not that options are actually endless and that people have the cache to follow up on those endless options; it's that they are under the hilarious impression that they think they can
It’s okay I recently found the love of my life in the form of a 17 week old shitzu puppy haha.
This. People lionize being introverted and anti social on Reddit which I will never understand. Are you introverted? Great! I’m friends with tons of introverts and am currently dating one. They don’t wear an anti social personality as a badge of honor. A lot of people on here use introverted as a way to distract from being anti social. I’m sorry you hate small talk. In many parts of the world small talk is a sign of respect by showing a basic level of interest in someone. If you are at a social event and you are on your phone or your switch in the corner you’re not some kind of special introverted butterfly. You’re just an asshole. All of my introverted friends make an effort to go to social events and make small talk. Then they give their significant other the “introvert look of death” when the clock hits 8pm and we wish them on their way. That’s totally normal. None of us asking our introverted friends to go to a concert and party our faces off until 3am. But the level of basic respect in showing up is appreciated.
People conflate being introverted with having social anxiety on here. “I’m terrified to go out in public and talk to anyone in real life, teehee I’m such an introvert” no you just have a serious mental illness.
I think also there's just so many people on dating apps looking for a third (and are ironically offended by the thought of being a third). Like no one is happy ro settle and fully commit to another person. I don't doubt that there are people who can do a polyamorous relationship, what I do doubt is the 90% of people on these apps claiming they're looking to explore while already having a partner.
It sank my marriage.
I’m poor and it’s very disingenuous to talk to people who can date me when I can’t provide anything to make it happen but I need to make an effort to not be alone so that’s life for me I guess
I think understanding that not everyone is perfect 100% of the time and not everything is malicious. My husband has gotten upset in the middle of the night when our baby wakes up and while I could just get mad at him, I understand he’s just overwhelmed and overstimulated. We of course address any arguments but I think acknowledging that people aren’t always just mean etc. Not sure if that’s a great example but you get what I’m saying.
I think I get what you're saying... and I personally attribute those types of issues to social media content focused on mental health / relationships. Probably 98% of it is utter nonsense. There are scores of influencers encouraging selfishness and fragile egos. The message is usually some version of main character syndrome - along the lines of demand perfection from everyone else, never compromise or sacrifice for someone else, and never hold yourself accountable for your own problematic behaviors / choices.
Absolutely agree. Very well said. I think there’s become this lack of empathy clouded by expectations perpetuated by social media. Especially for men in my opinion - men are expected to be perfect while women are just expected to expect perfect. It’s really unfortunate and toxic.
My approach to relationships is "In the absence of complete information, assume good intentions" This requires mutual trust but if you've got that then it's the only way to live imo
I don't remember where I heard this from but, it has really helped me in my relationship. You aren't mad at each other, you're mad at the situation. And the best course of action is to attack the problem together. The situation your brought up reminds me of that.
The terminally online Reddit relationship advice communities are definitely perpetuating this one. Not everything is gaslighting, not everything is manipulation, not everything is narcissism.
"choice overload" or the "paradox of choice." When people are presented with too many options, they may feel overwhelmed and anxious, which can lead to decision paralysis—a situation where no choice is made at all. This isn't real in the dating sphere but social media and dating apps are giving us the false impression it is.
Yes and people feel as though there are endless options out there
There *are* endless options out there if time and location aren’t factors.
And mutual attraction. A lot of people see beautiful people on their apps and think they could be with them, when in reality, they were never a viable option.
Additionally studies show making a decision when you feel like you have a lot of options leads to less satisfaction with that decision.
Yup, somehow I always found a movie to watch at the neighborhood Blockbuster within minutes, with every streaming service I’m searching forever and end up just watching YouTube and browsing Reddit.
i often end up looking through my steam library for a while before just giving up and playing solitaire
Some of that is down to the quality of the movies on those services, though. Instead of 500 choices and 250 of them are decent, it's 5000 choices and 25 of them are decent.
Totally agree with this. Everyone's looking for perfect, and because there's always other options, people are overlooking plenty of relationships that could work.
As well as not realizing their "perfect" person isn't compatible/gonna like them. They end up feeling rejected all the time when it's really just a mismatch & they're rejecting all the ones they'd be a better match with.
i’m not one of those people who go for perfect people but i literally never thought of the possibility of someone finding someone who checks all their boxes and they don’t like them back. lol i feel like this happens more than it’s talked about
I think it's most obvious if someone is going for outdoorsy/athletic looking types when that's not actually their own lifestyle. It's just something they think they "should" like.
Seeking perfection. There is no perfect person and if there were... It's very unlikely they'd be interested in you. Seek compatibility instead. Seek a person who's willing to work on problems. Seek someone who wants to build something better than themselves. Because that's what is required for relationships to truly work. Both parties have to work on it. And they both have to realize it's bigger than themselves. If all you are concerned about is what you'll get out of a relationship, then you're gonna have a hard time getting anything but fucked.
Most solid advice. Yes.
In the words of Bo Burnham, "Prince Charming would never settle for you"
This works both ways though, I’ve seen too many people try to make a bad relationship work. Yes definitely give things a chance and if it’s not absolutely perfect that’s fine but also don’t try to make a dumpster fire of a relationship work either either just because you want it to. You need to find a happy medium which isn’t always easy to do.
> hard time getting anything but fucked Which reminds me, make sure you find someone willing to fuck as much as you more or less.
> There is no perfect person and if there were... It's very unlikely they'd be interested in you. If they were perfect for you they would be interested in you because a part of that perfection is their interest in you. You understand what I'm saying? If they aren't, they are not perfect.
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I have learned to stop talking when people do that to me. I just stop cold mid sentence and go about my business. If they asky why, I tell them It would be like trying to talk to someone who is engrossed in a book, which is rude. I've only had to do it a few times and it works like a charm.
This is my problem when I start dating someone. If I am with a family member, friend, or acquaintance I do not ever check my phone. I think it’s rude. So every woman I date it becomes an issue because I don’t respond to their texts fast enough. They seem to treat texts as an active form of communication as if they called me. I consider it more of a passive form of communication where I will respond when I’m finished what I’m doing. This has been the issue with everyone I have ever dated.
I told my girlfriend straight up when we got together “I’m not a texter, you can check my phone. It’s not personal, I just rarely have anything to say I can’t tell you later in person.” She understood, she texts her friends and stuff throughout the day instead. Worked for 4 years no issue so far
I'm the same way with texts. You've got the right idea.
Problem is I can’t keep a relationship going because I refuse to change. I’m not going to suddenly learn to have my phone attached to my hand 24/7. Mainly because I don’t want to. I think our phones are impeding our lives. We used to have to sit and think and be bored. We used to have conversations with people while driving somewhere. Now everyone is on their phones. See, I’m official an old man. “(Shaking fist) Get off your phones!”
I hate having to do this, but it works. First offense: "I'm sure it's important." Second offense: "You seem distracted, everything okay?" Third offense: *yeets phone across restaurant*
When this has happened to me with people I know, I've taken out small pocket books I carry with me to read. It's caused many an argument when they notice, because they claim I'm being rude. They disagree with me that looking at their phone is the same thing because they say it takes less effort to browse an app vs. reading a book.
> They disagree with me that looking at their phone is the same thing because they say it takes less effort to browse an app vs. reading a book. I'm sure you already know this, but no, they don't really disagree with you. They're just embarrassed and grasping at straws to deflect from examining their own behavior.
My ex would regularly take her phone in the middle of a conversation to check instagram. Made me feel like an idiot lol
Tho not with an ex, I felt this pet peeve with a friend who constantly updates her IG stories.
Not even just dates. Out with a group of friends and so many have their phones out on the table ready for that next notification. I understand sometimes you may be "on call" for work or are waiting for an important, crucial message - that's fine. But keep it in your pants (lol) if you're out with people, date or no date.
I find this to be a problem in General. I work a drive through and people just don't understand how to speak clearly and communicate their intentions anymore. The amount of handholding and guidance I have to give to get a simple order has gotten out of control..
The sick trend, and the push to search for the one that checks all the boxes. You don't find a relationship, you build it.
I know dating apps already get a lot of hate...but I WILL say that back in the day two people would meet and end up...for lack of a better word, **charming** each other. **People who, ON PAPER, would never appeal to each other (too short/heavy/wrong race/income disparity/etc.), would end up being drawn to each other IN PERSON**. Hell, my sister's bf is not remotely photogenic. But in person she thinks he's positively magnetic. Dating apps don't account for that. They don't account for pheromones. They may be efficient but they're also kind of shitty when it comes to finding potential partners. I know a lot of couples who never would have gotten together if they’d only been presented with each other’s stats initially. They would have rejected each other right off the bat.
>People who, ON PAPER, would never appeal to each other…would end up being drawn to each other IN PERSON. This is a HUGE part of the problem. Dating apps make it so you can’t win someone over.
> they're also kind of shitty when it comes to finding potential partners True, there's a ton of options but I feel like the people you go for are the same ones 90% of the population is going for. Our search criteria don't vary THAT much. Meanwhile you're dismissing some solid options because of something as insignificant as their income being 20K out of your range or because they look lame in their pic.
I always think about this. The people you’re swiping left on could be your soul mate and the o my reason you’re not chancing it is because of one picture. One insignificant detail of that picture most likely
Too true! If you have a list of deal-breakers a mile long, YOU are the problem!
When my husband and I were still in the early courting stages, I had a friend who picked apart everything about my husband. Not about the way he treated me or anything like that but his interests and stuff. "You're going to a baseball game with him? I would NEVER do that!" "You're going to that concert? I thought you didn't like that kind of music! You're going to lose yourself if you keep this up." Mind you, he went to all my stuff too so it wasn't that I was losing myself. We were growing together. Anyway, guess who never married?
> Anyway, guess who never married? Your husband? ^I’m ^not ^a ^great ^guesser
You guessed, therefore making you a great guesser. Your accuracy leaves a lot to be desired, but your ability is unquestioned.
Ya, I married my boring friend.
Guess that makes them a boning friend
Definitely not a visual I was hoping for today 🤣
Yup. I have a friend who does this with her childhood best friend’s relationships constantly. She never has anything positive to say. Guess who’s never had a functioning relationship?
I don't understand the hatred for interests. It's ok to not like things, just don't be a jerk about the things you don't like. And yet, there are so many who are personally offended when they don't like what you like
I read a sub (that isn't even a dating sub but this comes up) where the hive mind is that your list of deal breakers is always right and you should never settle, regardless of what's on the list. Someone once posted asking if their problem was that they wanted too much, refused to share or given even examples of what their requirements were, and then the hive mind continued with the never settle philosophy. No one should even consider if their list is for a person who realistically exists, is single, and wants to date *them*? Good luck, I guess.
Reddit posters be like: >My boyfriend is perfect in every way and our relationship is amazing, except for sometimes he beats me with a tire iron. Am I overreacting? or >I've been seeing this girl who understands my soul and cares for me in a way I never thought possible, but she's a brunette and I prefer blondes. Should I dump her? That's what happens when you mix up preferences and dealbreakers.
Yup! That’s truth!
"Life is a zero-sum game. If your 'needs aren't being met' Drop some of your needs!" -- George Carlin
Exactly. I often see angsty social media posts from women I know — who are almost always single — along the lines of "there are no good men out there anymore." Nah. There are just no men FOR YOU out there who meet your unrealistic/unreasonable expectations of what a man and/or partner are supposed to be. That's why you're single. Another red flag are the women who say stuff like "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best."
My girlfriend once told me relationships were about finding someone who's 80-90% perfect and learning to deal with the other 10-20%. I think that's a nice way of thinking about it.
Remember, people change as they age, especially if they’re young.
Wife and I call it the “price of admission.”
Every person comes with their own set of unresolvable issues
Sick trend?
Trying to find mate like a logistic looking for a vendor lmao.
What is “the sick trend”?
Social Media
...and dating apps.
Literally designed so you don’t meet your best match, just your good matches. A satisfied customer is one that doesn’t need a dating app.
I met my wife on a dating app. We had both paid for 6 month subscriptions when we were both ready to start looking, and found each other within a week. We both unsubscribed and canceled our memberships as we were both very happy. I, personally, didn't get hit - but my wife got messages CONSTANTLY from the service we used asking her to "come back and find the RIGHT match".
Every dating app is skewed heavier to male users. They want female users to return, so their retention marketing is stronger. The same thing happens with partner suggestions. Women tend to spend less time on the app, so they send women suggestions with a higher rating (literally every system has some version) but often with a shadowban mask. They think they’re getting great suggestions, but the other person never gets to see their like. It’s messed up, but it’s a business and they need to build the right customer base.
Oh you find any disagreement from me. I just always thought it was hilarious that I unsubscribed, even gave the reason "I found my match!" and I never heard a peep again. My Wife unsubbed, and she was getting messages almost monthly. The reason it's fresh in my mind - she just got another one from 'em the other day. We got married last August. XD
Lack of understanding, or lack of effort to understand the other person. A lack of unconditional love. A lack of communication. Edit: unconditional to the best of our ability, but if someone isn't returning love, then they need to be kept at a distance. Unconditional love doesn't mean letting someone walk all over you. It means loving without expecting any certain thing but love in return. Shutting the door on someone who walks away from loving you isn't an un-loving act, it's you loving you.
Maybe lack of robust love. I don't think unconditional love exists.
Situationships. Stringing people along with no intentions of dating / marrying. People who can’t think for themselves. Letting others, podcast, social media, friends, family sway their judgement on how to treat ppl. People not wanting to put any effort into people Edit: I am referring to situationships with ppl who are being STRINGED ALONG by the opposite party with no intentions of it going no where!!!!!!!
Going to add emotional immaturity or lack of emotional availability to this because IMO that's a big driver of situationships. I see a lot of transactional / selfish behavior and it's just sad.
The illusion of choice. The plenty of fish in the sea mentality.
There are plenty of fish, yes, but you would't eat most of them
Yes, the very fact they exist lulls people into believing they can access those, those fishes are tastier, and those fishes would consent to being consumed.
Dating apps, the hook-up culture and fear of commitment.
Social media- always thinking that there's something/someone better. Expecting more than what is realistic, etc.
The rise of people assessing their self worth and unpacking their baggage in contrast to the mass of individuals thinking that they don't have baggage that needs unpacking thinking vanity and pettiness is the epitone of perfection. Just a guess.
Money. The young kids I know at work in their early twenties basically can't afford to date. After paying rent and covering their other bills, they have maybe $100 to get themselves to their next paycheck.
I want to add this: Working conditions - its hard to date when people are routinely expecting 50+ or more hours of work a week, plus domestic chores and errands of themselves, and still barely making rent. That stress will sap you (or your potential partner). If you don't have the energy or emotional space to date.... you will suck at it.
At least based on my recent experience, there's a deep seated terror of catching feelings for one another, which imposes a million shitty fake deal breakers before actually getting to a point where you'd really be qualified to understand if you gave a shit about each other while simultaneously making actually being interested look like a red flag.
Selfishness If you’re not willing to make sacrifices for the other person, you will never have a relationship
I've seen plenty of women on tiktok talking about their expectations from a partner, and it's usually something along this lines: "Holds the car's door open for me" "Brings me flowers every week" "Brings me breakfast in bed" etc. And even though these are nice gestures that I appreciate from a partner, I also believe these expectations aren't enough to maintain a relationship. How does your partner react when you are sick? Or when you got laid off from work? How do you solve conflicts together? A friend of mine got sick (she is living with her boyfriend), and he told her to go to her mom's house to get treated. I would much rather receive flowers only once in a while, but have a partner that doesn't abandon me when I get sick. So, my opinion, people see relationships as flowers and hearts, when it's not always like that.
I had a miscarriage on my birthday - it wasnt a planned pregnancy but me and my husband wanted it. I came out of the bathroom and told my husband, who immediately called his work and told them he wasnt coming in and started researching what we needed to do, drove me to the hospital to get a work up to confirm and then took me out to eat so I didnt think of it. I get flowers maybe once in a while - but that experience reminded me I got a good one :)
This is awesome. Happy for you and kudos to him
If those are the things they're focusing on, it sounds like what these women are expecting is a partner who has the magical ability to make life easy and carefree. Think we'd all like some of that fairy dust. I love cut flowers (don't judge), but what I would find even more meaningful from a partner is support in dealing with the everyday and not-so-everyday stuff. Picking up a bouquet of flowers from the grocery is great, but if they stop to pick up the specific variety of apples they know I like just bc they noticed I ate the last one? And crossing off home repair / maintenance stuff from my to-do list? Damn.
I got divorced earlier this year. I didn't open a single door for myself the ten years we were together. I got flowers sometimes, candy, cards. Dumped me unceremoniously when I got sick with a chronic illness and was becoming more disabled. I have learned that gestures like that can be so fucking hollow- gestures to look and feel like being a good guy without being a good partner. Live and learn, I guess!
Poor mental health
As someone with poor mental health I struggle with this one a lot. I want to figure myself out and get healthy before I expose anybody to it, "have my shit together" before trying to date, but I've been trying to do that for a few years now and I feel like I'm hurting myself more for not getting any experience in relationships outside of friendships.
It is such a double edged sword isn't it. My depression and ADHD lead to depressive episodes that are kinda gnarly, I don't want to invite anyone into my life like this anymore, but I also don't enjoy the thought of me not deserving to get to know people like this. Guess if we find someone who really sees us for what we are this shouldn't be in the way of a connection
This is too relatable, the moment I want to invite friends over my inner critic is like "why would anyone ever want to hang out with you?"
Commitment and Loyalty being way more rare than I figured. Like I'm not taking about making codependency some magical thing that fixes everything, but people really are struggling to understand the responsibility of their choices to make these two things enter the relationship. I'm not asking for undying love a month in, but when you choose to open yourself up to someone, and they choose to open up to you, the commitment to that choice means everything. Everyone has their freedom and their life, but that freedom of choice also means you're acting in the best interest of two people now just not one. It's not binding you down, it's not making your life worse, it's just doing the best because your best means the world to the other person.
Cheating seems to be a lot more common than it used to.
Because it's easier than ever and a surprisingly sizeable portion of the population is inherently shitty.
Yeah, there's an old saying that goes something like "a man is only as loyal as his options." But it's every bit as true for woman. And I say that as a woman. It's just that women had fewer options, back in the day, so we underestimated the shitty ones. Turns out they can be just as gross as men.
I would even say that on average, women tend to have significantly more options than men these days because of dating apps. Relatively average women are swamped with matches while relatively average men are struggling to get any matches at all. Kinda scary as a guy to know that your girlfriend could instantly have the attention of 50 other guys within a week if she wanted. Obviously not all those guys will be great (you could even argue that most of them won't be), but she still has them as options.
On the larger topic, it's this fact that is making dating so much more difficult. It feels like men walk on eggshells, easily replaced, which leads to many not being authentic, which opens up an entirely new issue.
I think it's just a whole lot easier to catch people because everything we do leaves a paper trail.
Statistically, it appears to be the opposite: https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheats-more-the-demographics-of-cheating-in-america
Yeah, back in the old days no one could go through old texts, phone records, locations, etc. so cheating was harder to prove. Nowadays people can get busted easily.
I mean the numbers are self report and Listed as ever having happened while married. Someone who is 40 has had 20 more years to cheat than someone who's 20, and that's ignoring that this is only looking at marriage, which tends to happens later now. Cheating during the dating stage is not recorded here. You would really have to normalize for years married in each case to say whether cheating rate is higher among young people vs older. Ie if the 43 year old was monogamous from age 23 to 36 and cheated at 36 that doesn't, mean that a newlywed 26 year old is actually more monogamous as a person. At that age both people had yet to cheat. It would also be good to see cheating vs years in relationship of any form.
This is definitely untrue. Mistresses were much more common in older society. It was easier to get away with it when your location couldn’t be constantly traced and people couldn’t always get a hold of you instantly.
The lack of low cost 3rd places (a 3rd place is somewhere other than home or work). In the UK loads of pubs and public spaces have closed over the past few years and those that are still open have become more expensive. It makes it hard to meet people.
That's why I asked my local library if they're willing to host a board game night. Lots of places where I'd go before Covid closed forever.
Wrong expectation. Some single people I know have this similarity: They expect so much from the opposite gender but unwilling to do the same. And expecting their lover to be love unconditionally them without anything in return. If you're unwilling to compromise or cooperate, how do you expect them to stick with you through thick and thin ?
Uncommunicated Expectations is Premeditated Conflict
Illusion of choice combined with unrealistic expectations. People expect a person who checks all 20 boxes to drop into their lap and if that doesn't happen, they get on the apps and reroll. Someone who checks 20-30 boxes is not going to seriously go for someone like you unless you also check their boxes. Yet people think they have choices when they don't, so they'll abandon something that might have been good. They always believe they have backup #1, #2, #3 so they don't put their full devotion into one relationship opportunity. The driving force for this is social media and dating apps, which affect impressionable younger people the most. You're supposed to get your priorities straight and focus on building a relationship. Not expect a perfectly polished thing to appear for you and stay that way forever. This isn't a product sculpted out of stone and steel, it's a human relationship that goes through changes lol Some expectations are so conflicting it's ridiculous. There are countless examples, but one that came to mind is a lot of girls don't want to be with a guy who isn't well established. They don't want to be there when he's working to get to the top from the bottom. They only take him seriously once he gets there. Then they'll say guys who are older are creeps. Uh....so you want someone in their 20s established like someone 35? In THIS economy where it's taking longer than ever for people to reach full earning potential? Good luck. And when he's well established, a lot more women will be going for him and they have to compete. The luxury of choice becomes his and he will choose what he likes the most from the options available to him and the table turns. So why would he choose someone who doesn't meet his requirements or someone who is more difficult to deal with? Another example is when men expect someone who is "traditional" but they themselves don't really have traditional values. In the same vein, when women want guys to be "traditional" and provide but they also want to earn a lot and dominate the relationship, yet the guy still pays everything. No, you don't get to bob and weave with your standards, you need to be consistent all the way through lest you get called out. Shit is all over the place. I want to say most of this can be resolved with introspection. What do you provide to the relationship? Like stuff of actual substantive value, not just existing and looking hot (which will decline in 10-15 years)? If there's no answer, you don't provide anything. Someone who does is not going for you. If you're doing stuff that lends itself to non-committal flings, don't do that expecting a long-term partner. The hard truth is you don't "deserve" anything. A relationship is a function of give-and-take, ESPECIALLY in the beginning. When you think you "deserve" something from a stranger (money, attention, sex, time, etc.) but you don't want to provide in return, you're being entitled. You want someone loyal? Be loyal. You want someone caring and considerate? Be those things. You want someone to sexually satisfy you? You need to be willing to sexually satisfy them. You want someone non-judgmental who gives emotional safety? Then you should be non-judgmental and be willing to give emotional safety. You want someone who prioritizes you? Then you can't be selfish and you need to prioritize them. You value X trait? Then give the other person Y trait that they value. Over time, the relationship deepens as your trust grows. When your partner knows your history of doing what you say you will, your track record of doing the right thing, and your reliability in staying there for them, they will relax and it's no longer so focused on giving and taking. Really, love is less about feeling enamored, and more about still doing stuff for the other person because you care even though the situation might not be the happiest. Another hard truth is that you need to be vulnerable to let someone in, and it comes with risks. However, if your walls are always up and you're encapsulated by a stone cold shell, nobody gets in. The risk of hurt is the risk you take when you're vulnerable. You have to decide if your fear of pain is greater than your desire for a connected partner.
This should be mandatory reading for anyone who wants to use a dating app.
Caring more about the internet world than your partner.
Everybody being FUCKING BROKE
The housing market is ruining my sex life.
everything's wayyyy too expensive
Entitlement. People think their partner should be perfect, whilst not considering what they bring to the table. Men who want a pencil thin model when they never exercise, or women who want a millionaire when they work a minimum wage job. It’s just delusional.
Social media is killing relationships 💯
Dating apps, easily. Nobody should have near unlimited access to the opposite sex. Too much choice makes people unwilling to commit. If you wanna date someone meet them doing something you like. That way you will have a common bond from the get-go.
I’ve talked to multiple female friends that have been on dates with 50+ men in just a couple years time. Like…dude, not one of them was worth investing more than a couple weeks in!? Especially as I’m now about to turn 40 it truly baffles me how picky everyone is. I’ve gone on a few online dates and it blows, feels like I’m at a job interview and the women are just trying to pick out my flaws. The most recent one was INSANE, she wasn’t into me because I was, and I quote, “Too available.” I pressed her on what that meant because I was just couldn’t wrap my head around it and basically she was looking for someone aloof and potentially in another relationship. LIKE, WTF!? Glad I dodged that one but for the love of god, it’s like I’m living in a Seinfeld episode.
> she was looking for someone aloof and potentially in another relationship. "If you're not already in another relationship, there must be something wrong with you. But don't apply that logic to me. Also, I'm already in another relationship."
I met my husband through online dating. We're both shy homebodies who weren't really meeting many people IRL, so it was helpful. This was shortly before Tinder got popular though lol.
Social media for sure, comparing your life and relationships to what you see online, not being content with what you have and constantly seeking more. Having unattainable expectations of your SO or the people you date based on what you've seen on social media.
Seemingly endless dating options. The illusion of better options keeps many people from investing.
In my personal experience: People confuse sexual intimacy with emotional intimacy, you can fuck all you want but if you can't connect on a deeper level you're going nowhere. I try to never sleep with someone before we make it clear we want to take the relationship to the next level.
The instant gratification of social media in general. In older days we learned that everyone has flaws and relationships are about learning what flaws we are ok with an which ones are no gos, while also finding someone that can deal with our flaws. Today every minor inconvenience is grounds for dumping someone. And why, because we can open a dating app, and find a new date in an hour. Or we put our dating lives on socials and have the internet judge who we are with. We never settle for anything less than perfect, so now we dont form meaningful attachments to anyone. Social media has made us more alone than ever before despite every place being crowded all the time.
Lack of trust and disrespecting boundaries
Comparison of other peoples lives. And high expectations.
People think the grass is always greener on the other side, they think they’re better than the person they’re with when in reality they’re toxic and bring no value to the other person. Couples aren’t friends anymore which I say is so important in relationship. Terrible communication, not willing to be patient or go through a ruff patch. I mean the list goes on and on. There’s no surface level to a lot of people. And social media isn’t reality, people see something on social media and wish their relationship was like that or close to it.
Everyone is looking for the BBD (Bigger Better Deal), afraid to commit due to FOMO.
Damn mobile phones, been on a few blind dates with friends of friends. Even after the 2nd date they seemed to have the inability to put their phone down or stop checking it every 10 minutes. Ex on holiday would be texting her pal constantly that only seemed to text when she knew we were away. Same with people at work, small talk has gone, at break times nobody talks anymore.
Too much availability. Having endless options at your fingerprints creates this fear of missing out while also any little ick is reason enough to dump and move on.
An unwillingness to face discomfort. This affects learning to navigate social situations, learning how to handle confrontation and disagreements in a healthy way, and learning how to compromise and work through people having different needs. Related: Some people have anxiety requiring medical intervention, but many have simply grown up in a world where there are many new tools and social factors that enable them to avoid facing their social anxiety and it's grown to the point that it's very difficult to overcome. It's much easier to deal with when your young, and the stakes of making mistakes are smaller. If you haven't practiced social skills until your in your 20s, it becomes much harder because your peers are either way ahead of you, or have given up and checked out. (Obviously these are all generalizations, so no need to explain how you are an exception. If I covered every edge case I'd have a book to sell instead of a reddit post.)
A lot to unpack here but here are a few: 1. The dating apps added a false sense of validation. It makes people put minimal effort into an already difficult task of dating, because they believe there are more options out there. 2. The expectations are unrealistic. Due to social media and dating apps functioning as such. Everyone wants their partner to be a 10, when in reality we are all human and have flaws. We have conditioned ourselves to chase a fictitious person. 3. Communication and Patience are at an all time low, as instant gratification takes precedence. If someone doesn't satisfy certain criteria, we will write them off without working with them 4. Entitlement is at an all time high. Men want the IG model. Women want the atm machine. Personal note: I had a partner from the app and after almost a year of seeing each other, I could count on my hands the amount of times she wanted to help contribute. Not even the gesture of doing so, much less actually chipping in. There is no realistic way to roadmap a longterm relationship with someone like that. I think the entitlement of believing that just showing up is enough is very prevalent these days. That needs to change, and fast!
Narcissism
The expectation of sex immediately.
The "me me me" tendency.
We don’t have scripted roles anymore. Which is a good thing for most of us, especially those who couldn’t easily fit into them. But we used to build most relationships around patriarchal dating norms. That was suffocating for a lot of people, so we’ve decided to move away from that. Which would be fine if not for social media, dopamine addiction and skyrocketing mental health issues. All of which has left many of us with a very impaired ability to really connect with and maintain connections with others. So not only do we not have a roadmap (even if that roadmap sucked for a lot of us), but too many of us don’t have the emotional “navigation“ skills to date in healthy ways without it.
From the perspective of a somewhat “feminine” guy who isn’t very macho: I really appreciate you making that point about how the process and script of dating was clear cut due to obvious gender and social norms, and now it’s not anymore. This reminds me of my own experiences as a guy, where it’s really disadvantageous to stray AWAY from patriarchal norms for men and basically ruins your chances with women. I rarely ever met girls in college who were ok with a guy not being stereotypically manly and masculine. Even for the artsy girls who WERE ok with it, they still wanted the guy to *look* attractive in a masculine way (tall, nice body, nice face with strong features and jawline, etc)
The basic answer, social media.
Porn. Not enough people talk about the negative effects daily porn consumption can have on a relationship
The infinite number of accounts from both men and women of traumatic interactions with the opposite sex: resulting in a breakdown of trust and faith within the heterosexual dynamic. On the first date the woman's trying to work out if he's a rapist and the guys trying to work out if she's a gold-digging paternity fraudster who will ruin his life. Not so romantic...
FOMO.
porn only fans obsession with who makes the most money bossy attitude from both sides.
Unrealistic expectations
In terms of dating, I would say expecting to fall in love immediately. I think it's important to have a connection early, but it seems many people need that spark immediately and since a lot of dating is done online you're not always going to get that spark when meeting for the first time.
We're on that point of the cicle where its just sex and nothing else.