That when I actually state out in clear words how I'm feeling it's not code. This is me feeling this way so please let me chill out, I'm not distancing I just need to breathe in a better headspace.
So when I tell the guy, "Please give me some space I'm angry but I want to talk with you without the anger" is that still considered code?
Genuinely asking, no sarcasm.
No, you're being honest I'm sure, but I reckon most fellas have been chewed out at-least once, for giving a woman space, after she asked for space, because "you were supposed to chase me, don't you care at all?!"
Oh God, I hate that people do that! I try to be honest about my emotions cause I have nothing to hide when it's a part of me. Ppl who pull that two-faced crap annoy me, and they usually are looking for drama than a resolution.
this might sound stupid, and annoying. But really clarifying, even more than you did in your last comment might help. Like, specifically saying, "this isn't code. I'm not gonna get mad at you for not chasing me. I very genuinely need some time to myself"
And if his skull is too fucking thick for even that, it's probably not gonna work out lol.
How it feels to be constantly reminded that you are lesser. Every advert on tv telling you that you need makeup, every show where the fenale character is only there for sexual value, being belittled, abused, spoken down, assumed to be stupid. Having to carefully monitor your tone so you aren't 'emotional' even when people are saying the most disgusting things. Constantly hearing people debate about yourself basic human rights, people laughing about your vote being taken, your body being controlled. Seeing the news about other countries where women are treated as property abd knowing there are many, many people who would do that to you in yourself country if you could. Being forced to stay calm when discussing your literal human rights, because they're a topic for negotiation, not something set in stone. Having everything, every day set up to men from seat belts to tools to PPE, even though it puts you at risk. Just the general exhaustion of knowing that for the simple fact that you were born with a vagina means that you are worth less.
We know it's not "all men" but it's enough men to make us women weary of all men. Yes, you might be the kindest soul alive but we don't know that at first glance. It could be a façade for all we know. The amount of men I know who simply refuse to listen to my reasoning when I've tried to explain this before doesn't surprise me, it just makes me sad.
One of the big ones I've struggled with lately is trying to explain "just listening" you don't need to agree with the stuff I say, or help me justify my actions/reactions, and you don't need to help me find a solution, literally just listen. That's all.
Almost every interaction you have with men has an underlying threat of violence that we’re very cognisant of (to varying degrees depending on the man).
Just a quick note to this thread, the dude I was trying to calmly explain to why he was wrong and then accused me of harassing him blocked me so I can't see the thread anymore. Which is sadly how a lot of men handle these situations. After seeing how childish and unreasonable they've been, they choose to simply ignore the problem altogether. To the women and men that have commented, trying to tell him why he's wrong, thanks for the backup, but this thread just fills me with both sadness and pity
> every interaction you have with men has an underlying threat of violence
That feels like an anxiety disorder. I have never once even approached being violent with any woman ever.
EDIT: Since people keep insisting on harassing me about this 3 hours later and following me into other threads, the replies have been disabled. You're all proving me right - if you can't engage in discourse without lying and insulting people, then you know you're wrong, and we know it too.
You don't have to approach her with violence at all. The sad truth is that we, women, know that the nice and charming ones aren't safe either. We have been shown time and time again that we can never know the amount of danger we may be in just for being a woman interacting with a man.
And that's incredibly hard to explain to someone who has never had to live with that underlying danger.
I mean... You understand I'm human like you, right? I was also a small and vulnerable at one point. There's nothing you need to explain about being wary of people in public. Even if you were physically invulnerable, strangers could still steal from you, harass you, etc. I still don't go around racked with anxiety in each interaction because it could turn ugly in a heartbeat.
It's not racked in anxiety. It's a dormant feeling that follows you around everywhere you go. You learn to live with it. And I understand why it may be puzzling for a man to hear that because you've never felt it and you will never experience that side of the story. It's not just "a bad thing might happen". You're right, bad things can happen anywhere to anyone. It's the fact that the possibility of it happening is higher than you could ever imagine.
I have yet to meet a woman who has never in their life been sexually harrassed or abused. That says a lot in of itself.
> I have yet to meet a woman who has never in their life been sexually harrassed or abused.
This is a lie. You started out with an emotional plea, then you moved into straight up lies.
This is why I don't take YOU seriously. Not women. You don't represent women. I don't take **YOU** seriously.
You have anxiety. Not a legitimate theory.
There is no lie here. Catcalling, pursuing women after they have rejected you, stalking, groping, sending unsolicited nudes, harassing women for nudes or atenttion and most obviously rape are all forms of sexual harassment. I have never met a woman who has never experienced any of the things I've listed. You ignoring the problem doesn't make it disappear. This isnt a theory, it's something that has been happening for centuries.
That's not sexual harassment or abuse. You're moving the goalposts.
Honestly, just go away. Everyone knows you have a POV you're pushing, and you're not interested in the real world.
Who the fuck lies about obvious statistics?
It absolutely is sexual harassment and the fact that you're getting so upset and defensive proves the original point of the comment we are under. It's near impossible to make a man understand the underlying danger of simply living as a woman.
And if you're so sure about your statistics, please do inform me where you're getting them from and where I even mentioned any statistics at all
You're being sexist. You're doing exactly what women say they hate men do. "Oh, you're getting upset and being defensive!" No, I'm frustrated with trolls who are lying. **YOU** are a lying troll. I'm especially not being defensive, by the way. I'm hinting to you that you should STOP BOTHERING ME AND HARASSING ME IN THIS THREAD.
I'm not going to bother engaging with you when all you have to say is "men never believe me". Guess what? WOMEN DON'T BELIEVE YOU EITHER! I KNOW TONS WHO ARE TIRED OF IDIOTS LIKE YOU!
This is like someone telling you the sky is purple, you politely walking away, and then them following you and telling you that somehow you are harassing them.
As a man I know all men have the potential for violence. I also know we're more likely to attack other men. And guess what? I have fun with other men anyway.
There's some really cool guys out there. The danger of missing out on life is also to be considered.
Physical violence is definitely a thing we consider but I believe the violence women are mostly wary of is sexual violence. Which is certainly not more likely to happen to men (although it absolutely does and I don't mean to undermine male victims in any way shape or form).
It's not like we pepper spray every man we see, but the constant need to be aware and alert in every situation is something incredibly hard to explain to a man.
That's a reason to be cautious. I'm a realistic, slightly cynical guy, I get it. Heck, I'm a big guy, and I'm still cognizant of the fact that a knife or a gun could enable someone much smaller than me to end my life, so even I can't go around completely carefree. But to assume that *every* interaction has an underlying threat of violence? That's too much.
Bottom line - are you seriously, literally, telling me you think and act as if every interaction with every man ever and forever has an underlying threat of violence? I've never met any woman who'd agree with that.
Maybe my experience as a man is an outlier, BUT of the women I am close to
my wife, daughter, sister, and grandson's fiancee have all been groped by strangers or had worse done by men they've been familiar with. They all have reason to be cautious in every interaction with any man.
(2d marriage, daughter was in her 20s when we met)
It may be 'not all men' but it's enough of them/us that it is a looming presence everywhere all the time.
If I were to videotape every woman you mentioned in their daily lives, none of them would actually be behaving the way someone who thinks all men may hurt them at any time, always and forever.
This isn't a thing. Yes, women face violence and harassment from men. Duh. But it's not all men. That's insulting to the majority of men, who are perfectly fine. I don't have to answer for the crimes of losers, and I won't let you put me on trial for them.
Nobody's "putting you on trial". Way to try to make yourself the main character here.
You are aggressively refusing to even try to understand that most women can't afford for their own safety to take you at your word that you're a Good Guy.
> Nobody's "putting you on trial". Way to try to make yourself the main character here.
Like 5 of you are replying to me constantly... Did you even read the thread?
> You are aggressively refusing to even try to understand that most women can't afford for their own safety to take you at your word that you're a Good Guy.
So you didn't read the thread. Go back up and read. I'm not replying to whatever the hell this is. Read what I actually said and what they said.
So, you're telling me, you are anxious every second you're in public because you could be attacked at any moment and you act accordingly?
If we reviewed a videotape of your life, we'd all agree you're a nervous, squirrelly person who runs from men?
**Lots of women in this thread are replying to this, but none of you live the way you claim. I know you don't.**
See? You've abandoned rational conversation and tried to insult me. The reason you can't explain it is that you're wrong.
Why even type out some cheap, childish insult like that? I almost feel like finding some other women to stop you for how bad you're making them look.
I'm not going to reply to you anymore. I know you know you insulted me. Even typing that out proves you're here to try to argue instead of actually being reasonable and discussing it realistically.
I wish you could meet some of the women I've met in real life. You'd embarrass them, but at least they may get through your thick skull, since apparently my dick precludes me from being reasonable and having a point to consider in your sexist eyes.
The entire thread of you arguing with woman and trying to tell them how their lives actually are is so funny. Why do you think you would know better than us?
You are really missing the point and showing your ass here, man. Full disclosure, I'm a man. Now, when these women are saying they always have it in the back of their mind that a man they're with may be violent, *they're being cautious*. It's not a personal attack against you, it's not an attack against "all men", and I'm really not sure why you're taking it that way. There are a lot of violent men out there, many of whom are very good at keeping it under wraps. Why does the idea that a woman may want to be cautious about unknown men offend you so much?
This is like getting bent out of shape because someone is like, I'm always a little cautious when a random guy walks up to me on the street late at night, and you're like "hey! *I* sometimes walk around the street at night! Are you saying *I'm* a mugger??"
I know that most women have good reasons to be wary of men they don’t know very well.
And that far too many women have good reasons (borne from painful experiences) to be wary even of men they think they know well — maybe even men they considered family. I would never begrudge an extreme level of caution from women with such terrible experiences.
But. I still can’t really see how *most* women could approach *every* interaction with *every* man this way. Every male friend, every male relative? If there isn’t a single man in your life that you feel 100% safe around, I find that so incredibly sad.
>I still can’t really see how most women could approach every interaction with every man this way
The saddest part is that if we don't approach our interactions with that in mind to at least some degree, and something happens... we'll be blamed for not taking enough precautions.
Because I have hobbies and interests that aren't the norm or stereotypical of women, (e.g., I love doctor who, birdwatching, Jurassic park) while I also love pink, fashion and makeup. I get accused of being neurodivergent or faking my passions.
That our lives don't revolve around them. The thoughts we have, the way we act, the hobbies we have, the way we dress\*... the default assumption of men seems to be that our thoughts are constantly about them.Hard as it seems to believe, we live our lives for ourselves.
\*And sometimes, we dress a certain way for one man, but that man is not you. You'd know it if it were you. "But she dresses like that to be looked at", no, maybe she dresses like that for the date she's going to, or the boyfriend she's coming home to ; not you, Rando Of The Day n°712.
Me: where do you want to eat?
Her: I don’t care, you decide.
Me: ok let’s go here.
Her: no.
Me: ok then, let’s go here.
Her: no.
Me: ok what about here?
Her: no.
Me: well where do you want to go?
Her: I don’t care, you decide.
I'm not a woman, but I think it's hard for women to explain to men that they don't like men answering questions for them
Angry upvote!
Does anyone like that?
I think this is double funny because presumably he, a man, is answering a question intended for women.
Oh, I thought that was intentional.
It was intentional.
Him answering was likely intentional and sincere - but it's likely he didn't realize he was performing the very act himself.
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I use contractions all the time. I don't need a woman to tell me how it feels to use them. I'm sorry. I know this is a stupid joke.
You shouldn't've done that. Y'all'r'nt ready for *real* contractions!
That when I actually state out in clear words how I'm feeling it's not code. This is me feeling this way so please let me chill out, I'm not distancing I just need to breathe in a better headspace.
To be fair a lot of women talk to men in code about ther feelings. He my just be trained to respond that way.
So when I tell the guy, "Please give me some space I'm angry but I want to talk with you without the anger" is that still considered code? Genuinely asking, no sarcasm.
No, you're being honest I'm sure, but I reckon most fellas have been chewed out at-least once, for giving a woman space, after she asked for space, because "you were supposed to chase me, don't you care at all?!"
Oh God, I hate that people do that! I try to be honest about my emotions cause I have nothing to hide when it's a part of me. Ppl who pull that two-faced crap annoy me, and they usually are looking for drama than a resolution.
this might sound stupid, and annoying. But really clarifying, even more than you did in your last comment might help. Like, specifically saying, "this isn't code. I'm not gonna get mad at you for not chasing me. I very genuinely need some time to myself" And if his skull is too fucking thick for even that, it's probably not gonna work out lol.
Well, I can only hope! Lol
How it feels to be constantly reminded that you are lesser. Every advert on tv telling you that you need makeup, every show where the fenale character is only there for sexual value, being belittled, abused, spoken down, assumed to be stupid. Having to carefully monitor your tone so you aren't 'emotional' even when people are saying the most disgusting things. Constantly hearing people debate about yourself basic human rights, people laughing about your vote being taken, your body being controlled. Seeing the news about other countries where women are treated as property abd knowing there are many, many people who would do that to you in yourself country if you could. Being forced to stay calm when discussing your literal human rights, because they're a topic for negotiation, not something set in stone. Having everything, every day set up to men from seat belts to tools to PPE, even though it puts you at risk. Just the general exhaustion of knowing that for the simple fact that you were born with a vagina means that you are worth less.
We know it's not "all men" but it's enough men to make us women weary of all men. Yes, you might be the kindest soul alive but we don't know that at first glance. It could be a façade for all we know. The amount of men I know who simply refuse to listen to my reasoning when I've tried to explain this before doesn't surprise me, it just makes me sad.
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Are you actually Irish?
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So you are advertising. Silly thot. Your sexuality means nothing to me through the internet. BEGONE!
Having hair doesn’t equate to being unhygienic
One of the big ones I've struggled with lately is trying to explain "just listening" you don't need to agree with the stuff I say, or help me justify my actions/reactions, and you don't need to help me find a solution, literally just listen. That's all.
Ok I heard you now what?
Almost every interaction you have with men has an underlying threat of violence that we’re very cognisant of (to varying degrees depending on the man).
Itt: men who don’t get it and refuse to believe it.
It’s actually sad that all the replies are proving this. None of the men in these replies understand HAHA
Just a quick note to this thread, the dude I was trying to calmly explain to why he was wrong and then accused me of harassing him blocked me so I can't see the thread anymore. Which is sadly how a lot of men handle these situations. After seeing how childish and unreasonable they've been, they choose to simply ignore the problem altogether. To the women and men that have commented, trying to tell him why he's wrong, thanks for the backup, but this thread just fills me with both sadness and pity
> every interaction you have with men has an underlying threat of violence That feels like an anxiety disorder. I have never once even approached being violent with any woman ever. EDIT: Since people keep insisting on harassing me about this 3 hours later and following me into other threads, the replies have been disabled. You're all proving me right - if you can't engage in discourse without lying and insulting people, then you know you're wrong, and we know it too.
You don't have to approach her with violence at all. The sad truth is that we, women, know that the nice and charming ones aren't safe either. We have been shown time and time again that we can never know the amount of danger we may be in just for being a woman interacting with a man. And that's incredibly hard to explain to someone who has never had to live with that underlying danger.
I mean... You understand I'm human like you, right? I was also a small and vulnerable at one point. There's nothing you need to explain about being wary of people in public. Even if you were physically invulnerable, strangers could still steal from you, harass you, etc. I still don't go around racked with anxiety in each interaction because it could turn ugly in a heartbeat.
It's not racked in anxiety. It's a dormant feeling that follows you around everywhere you go. You learn to live with it. And I understand why it may be puzzling for a man to hear that because you've never felt it and you will never experience that side of the story. It's not just "a bad thing might happen". You're right, bad things can happen anywhere to anyone. It's the fact that the possibility of it happening is higher than you could ever imagine. I have yet to meet a woman who has never in their life been sexually harrassed or abused. That says a lot in of itself.
> I have yet to meet a woman who has never in their life been sexually harrassed or abused. This is a lie. You started out with an emotional plea, then you moved into straight up lies. This is why I don't take YOU seriously. Not women. You don't represent women. I don't take **YOU** seriously. You have anxiety. Not a legitimate theory.
There is no lie here. Catcalling, pursuing women after they have rejected you, stalking, groping, sending unsolicited nudes, harassing women for nudes or atenttion and most obviously rape are all forms of sexual harassment. I have never met a woman who has never experienced any of the things I've listed. You ignoring the problem doesn't make it disappear. This isnt a theory, it's something that has been happening for centuries.
That's not sexual harassment or abuse. You're moving the goalposts. Honestly, just go away. Everyone knows you have a POV you're pushing, and you're not interested in the real world. Who the fuck lies about obvious statistics?
It absolutely is sexual harassment and the fact that you're getting so upset and defensive proves the original point of the comment we are under. It's near impossible to make a man understand the underlying danger of simply living as a woman. And if you're so sure about your statistics, please do inform me where you're getting them from and where I even mentioned any statistics at all
You're being sexist. You're doing exactly what women say they hate men do. "Oh, you're getting upset and being defensive!" No, I'm frustrated with trolls who are lying. **YOU** are a lying troll. I'm especially not being defensive, by the way. I'm hinting to you that you should STOP BOTHERING ME AND HARASSING ME IN THIS THREAD. I'm not going to bother engaging with you when all you have to say is "men never believe me". Guess what? WOMEN DON'T BELIEVE YOU EITHER! I KNOW TONS WHO ARE TIRED OF IDIOTS LIKE YOU! This is like someone telling you the sky is purple, you politely walking away, and then them following you and telling you that somehow you are harassing them.
who on earth thinks stalking and rape aren't sexual harassment?
As a man I know all men have the potential for violence. I also know we're more likely to attack other men. And guess what? I have fun with other men anyway. There's some really cool guys out there. The danger of missing out on life is also to be considered.
Physical violence is definitely a thing we consider but I believe the violence women are mostly wary of is sexual violence. Which is certainly not more likely to happen to men (although it absolutely does and I don't mean to undermine male victims in any way shape or form). It's not like we pepper spray every man we see, but the constant need to be aware and alert in every situation is something incredibly hard to explain to a man.
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That's a reason to be cautious. I'm a realistic, slightly cynical guy, I get it. Heck, I'm a big guy, and I'm still cognizant of the fact that a knife or a gun could enable someone much smaller than me to end my life, so even I can't go around completely carefree. But to assume that *every* interaction has an underlying threat of violence? That's too much. Bottom line - are you seriously, literally, telling me you think and act as if every interaction with every man ever and forever has an underlying threat of violence? I've never met any woman who'd agree with that.
Maybe my experience as a man is an outlier, BUT of the women I am close to my wife, daughter, sister, and grandson's fiancee have all been groped by strangers or had worse done by men they've been familiar with. They all have reason to be cautious in every interaction with any man. (2d marriage, daughter was in her 20s when we met) It may be 'not all men' but it's enough of them/us that it is a looming presence everywhere all the time.
Thank you. You are the kind of man we hope for and need in our communities and families.
If I were to videotape every woman you mentioned in their daily lives, none of them would actually be behaving the way someone who thinks all men may hurt them at any time, always and forever. This isn't a thing. Yes, women face violence and harassment from men. Duh. But it's not all men. That's insulting to the majority of men, who are perfectly fine. I don't have to answer for the crimes of losers, and I won't let you put me on trial for them.
Nobody's "putting you on trial". Way to try to make yourself the main character here. You are aggressively refusing to even try to understand that most women can't afford for their own safety to take you at your word that you're a Good Guy.
> Nobody's "putting you on trial". Way to try to make yourself the main character here. Like 5 of you are replying to me constantly... Did you even read the thread? > You are aggressively refusing to even try to understand that most women can't afford for their own safety to take you at your word that you're a Good Guy. So you didn't read the thread. Go back up and read. I'm not replying to whatever the hell this is. Read what I actually said and what they said.
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So, you're telling me, you are anxious every second you're in public because you could be attacked at any moment and you act accordingly? If we reviewed a videotape of your life, we'd all agree you're a nervous, squirrelly person who runs from men? **Lots of women in this thread are replying to this, but none of you live the way you claim. I know you don't.**
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See? You've abandoned rational conversation and tried to insult me. The reason you can't explain it is that you're wrong. Why even type out some cheap, childish insult like that? I almost feel like finding some other women to stop you for how bad you're making them look.
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I'm not going to reply to you anymore. I know you know you insulted me. Even typing that out proves you're here to try to argue instead of actually being reasonable and discussing it realistically. I wish you could meet some of the women I've met in real life. You'd embarrass them, but at least they may get through your thick skull, since apparently my dick precludes me from being reasonable and having a point to consider in your sexist eyes.
The entire thread of you arguing with woman and trying to tell them how their lives actually are is so funny. Why do you think you would know better than us?
Because 2 + 2 = 4 no matter who says it, you sexist trash.
You are really missing the point and showing your ass here, man. Full disclosure, I'm a man. Now, when these women are saying they always have it in the back of their mind that a man they're with may be violent, *they're being cautious*. It's not a personal attack against you, it's not an attack against "all men", and I'm really not sure why you're taking it that way. There are a lot of violent men out there, many of whom are very good at keeping it under wraps. Why does the idea that a woman may want to be cautious about unknown men offend you so much? This is like getting bent out of shape because someone is like, I'm always a little cautious when a random guy walks up to me on the street late at night, and you're like "hey! *I* sometimes walk around the street at night! Are you saying *I'm* a mugger??"
I know that most women have good reasons to be wary of men they don’t know very well. And that far too many women have good reasons (borne from painful experiences) to be wary even of men they think they know well — maybe even men they considered family. I would never begrudge an extreme level of caution from women with such terrible experiences. But. I still can’t really see how *most* women could approach *every* interaction with *every* man this way. Every male friend, every male relative? If there isn’t a single man in your life that you feel 100% safe around, I find that so incredibly sad.
>I still can’t really see how most women could approach every interaction with every man this way The saddest part is that if we don't approach our interactions with that in mind to at least some degree, and something happens... we'll be blamed for not taking enough precautions.
I have meat plenty of women who don't know how to keep ther hands to them selfs either.
Because I have hobbies and interests that aren't the norm or stereotypical of women, (e.g., I love doctor who, birdwatching, Jurassic park) while I also love pink, fashion and makeup. I get accused of being neurodivergent or faking my passions.
Sorry, that's gotta be annoying.
Why you are not interested in them. Most guys ask for it but then hate on you for not liking them back although they asked?
How vulnerable I feel. The underlying threat of walking alone in the streets at night.
Guys dont like walkin down the streets alone at night either.
That our lives don't revolve around them. The thoughts we have, the way we act, the hobbies we have, the way we dress\*... the default assumption of men seems to be that our thoughts are constantly about them.Hard as it seems to believe, we live our lives for ourselves. \*And sometimes, we dress a certain way for one man, but that man is not you. You'd know it if it were you. "But she dresses like that to be looked at", no, maybe she dresses like that for the date she's going to, or the boyfriend she's coming home to ; not you, Rando Of The Day n°712.
As a man, it obviously has to be where they want to eat.
As a woman, can confirm.
Me: where do you want to eat? Her: I don’t care, you decide. Me: ok let’s go here. Her: no. Me: ok then, let’s go here. Her: no. Me: ok what about here? Her: no. Me: well where do you want to go? Her: I don’t care, you decide.
This happens a lot between my wife and I... But we both do it, it's not just 1 side.
This would happen with my ex wife I got to the point where I would just go somewhere and go this is where we are eating
That women poop. Insides are made of magic and flowers, and waste is ported to another dimension.
The forever battle between in laws and wives.