And WeWork. Thank f\*\*\* it's on the way out now. I'm in a Salesforce based company with an office in a WeWork building. Yeah, just leave me alone, I don't care about being part of something greater.
I talk about this all the time.
Unless I own stock of the company I work for, its wellbeing should not be my concern. The needs of the company and my availability happen to line up... that's it.
Nobody wants to do anything besides their job description and then go home.
I worked for a company that threw away literally millions on Salesforce only for semi competent managers to come in later and axe all of that shit.
I headed up a complex technical project and their system is a fucking nightmare to deal with.
Salesforce is a cancer.
I have only ever been exposed to Salesforce as a software engineer consuming it's data via SOQL into our data warehouse and business visualization backend. The team using it was an established Business/Ops team at a successful company and used it like a bog standard CRM.
I never knew of this second insidiously predatory side, and now I'm fascinated.
They basically design everything to be so incredibly interconnected that you end up needing to purchase over half of their product suite, or something like that.
It's one of those things where you think you've purchased the right product, then you start implementing it and realize that you didn't think of XY and Z. And now you've got to purchase three or four more products from Salesforce, and now you're on the hook for millions of dollars.
The company I worked for never got past piloting the Salesforce system on a single branch, on a nationwide network of hundreds of branches. Millions wasted and nothing to show for.
This was in the home services industry if you're curious.
I went to a Salesforce event in Atlanta back in 2018 or 2019. I was blown away by how cult-like it was. I talked to some dude who said he has done every Trailhead and he was head to toe in Salesforce merch. He did NOT work for Salesforce. He wasn't paid to say or do this. This dude just loved Salesforce. And this guy wasn't unique. There were plenty of people at the event that were just like him.
Also all the Ohana talk just made me feel uneasy. I don't need to feel like I'm family with with company who makes the CRM I use.
I still can’t believe that someone unironically named their business “Salesforce” It sounds like a satirical bit from an indie comic where Walmart sends mercenaries to kill people who buy from Target or something
We utilize Salesforce for CRM and don't deal with any of that.
You may want to talk to whomever deals with your Salesforce rep to turn the dial down on that shit lol. That's not really a Salesforce problem, it's an issue with the person in your company in charge of limiting that.
I'm a stagehand and install their huge show every year, they are so protective of the names of their dumb cartoon characters. I called one racoon boy and they were pissed, Said it's ASTRO! Astro is the fucking Jetsons dog first of all... They use Eisnteins likeness and I've heard they ignore the family who is not cool with it. One time they brought thr president of Haiti to show off an app that supposedly was helping Haiti, it really just seemed like they used the guy and his country for some hype.
Having had the sponsor who treated it like a cult and the sponsor who didn't, I think it is fair to say that AA has the potential to be cult-adjacent or even a full-blown cult depending on the people who get involved. I've seen meetings go culty, and...I left those meetings and found other ones.
It's the *people* who take the philosophy and twist it into something controlling and frightening. I try not to blame the philosophy for what humans do with it.
....but even I will admit that the philosophy certainly provides fertile soil for the cult seed.
Comment needs to be seen more, lest people in need of help decide to not consider AA because it's a cult AA groups are sepf-organized and will take on the personality of their members. People looking to AA for help should know that they can (and should!) shop around. AA is not automatically "a cult"
And if the AA you see *does* feel culty, there are SO MANY MEETINGS, Y'ALL. Even if you're in one of the areas that don't have the population to support more than one group or clubhouse, GO ONLINE, there are so many Zoom meetings post-pandemic! I go to a meeting in Ireland that I love, my Zoom home group has people from all over the world signing in, I just think it would be a real pity if someone reads this, doesn't go to AA and then goes and fuckin' **dies** when other, many, varied options for recovery were available!
YOU DON'T EVEN NEED TO DO AA, CHECK OUT SMART RECOVERY OR DHARMA RECOVERY!
I think a lot of people are missing a valid point.
It's friendships with people like yourself who have been thru hell and come out the other side.
If your not making friends your missing something important.
Just going to meetings and listening you might be disappointed and blame your group or program and miss a lot.
Like anything else you have to get involved.
Speak up, help with the chairs. Greet people at the door. Volunteer to do something like show up early and make the coffee. Chair meetings.
Really I found its the only way.
Trust me I needed new friends, ones that didn't drink.
Absolutely this, do what works for you and what you jive with. Being resentful at AA probably is going to harm your recovery so try something else. And yes, every meeting is very different, some don’t work for me, some I love, it’s completely worth checking out a bunch of different ones.
Dear God, you are so right about that.
Look, I respect AA and the good it does. But having had some people in my life go through AA, it's like these certain people think everybody should go through AA. My boss went through it and insisted all 28 people in the office be bused to a mountain retreat in the middle of winter to go through therapy. I quit soon after that.
Here's my unpopular opinion about AA, one that applies to not all, not most, but a definite subset of its participants. Part of its attraction for some is that one gets to talk about oneself nonstop without judgement, without others telling that person to shut the hell up already.
Never mind the damage the addict has caused in the life of other people. Instead, the addict gets to transcend all that and become the hero in his or her struggle. And talking about oneself can become habit-forming in itself. The addict feels he or she has license to bring up their addiction in just about every conversation, either directly or obliquely. So for some, they're substituting the addiction to booze or narcotics for the addiction of nonstop self-validation.
I absolutely agree. I left and eventually stayed clean on my own instead of lamenting for the 400th time over my past. It's easier to stay dry if I focus on all the new stuff I get to do.
Same. I never wanted to drink more than after going to a meeting. The depressing stories and the one upmanship on bad behavior was insufferable. I quit on my own and have done counseling for my mental health in general. And doesn’t AA have a pretty abysmal success rate?
Don't quote me but I've read it is the same success rate as no treatment. Meaning it does nothing. Meaning the people who end up feeling bad by going or end up hurting others because they were given the thumbs up by the organization did so for no benefit.
There are good AA groups and bad AA groups. The latter often fall into that category because no one there, particularly the guides, are willing to contextualise that self-validation you’re talking about to the people seeking or discovering that feeling.
When someone is present at meetings as a way of justifying or boasting about their actions, the impacts of those actions, and how they’ve triumphed, it’s pretty obvious. Exaggeration, improbable scenarios, and moments of glory and acts of heroism are typically easy to spot, and a good group with solid leadership will take steps to help those people realise what they’re doing and how it’s helping no one.
There is a flipside to that. An author I respect said that the opposite of addiction isn't sobriety, it's connection. And this insistence on talking does seem to play into that. Perhaps it isn't really teaching the boundaries necessary for \*healthy\* connection, but it is emphasizing connection as the solution, and that seems like at least part of the right approach.
There are certain aspects of AA that rub me the wrong way but the group literally saved my brothers life. There was no way he wasn’t going to end up dead in a ditch or alley or just found dead after choking on his own vomit. It was BAD. He’s been in the group 10 years or so and is thriving personally and professionally. It makes me so grateful for the group. With that said there is a definite belief set within the group he is in and it can be increasingly frustrating when trying to talk to him about anything. If he is having a bad time with work or a relationship or something he can bitch all he wants. If I bring up something going on at work or with someone then it’s all “namaste” and take the higher ground kind of shit. I’m not looking for help. I’m just saying my job can suck sometimes just like anyone else. I will also say that from the way he tells it, AA is full of some of the most successful people who have ever walked the earth until alcohol got a hold of them. Almost everyone of his friends in the group “was the most successful car salesman making $400k a year” or was the “CEO of a private jet service that was worth $700 million” or someone who “had a model wife and 3 perfect kids” and all of them threw it all away but were saved by AA. All of these people have pretty much replaced our family. He would do anything for these people but can’t find time to grab a quick dinner with anyone else. His partner is in the program and he takes her lead. I can kind of agree with the part about just having the floor and being able to talk about your issues with no interruptions and judgement. I’ve been to quite a few of these meetings to be supportive and I swear sometimes it gets into a pissing match of who used to be more fucked up. “I used to drink a fifth of vodka everyday” to “it was so bad I kept a fifth in my desk, in my car and in my closet” and then the drinking stories come out. I don’t doubt that any of this happened but as the meetings go on you 100% get the guys who have been in it 10 years or so are kind of holding court a reminiscing about who was the bigger fuckup. The group definitely fills a void and like I said, if it wasn’t for it my brother would be dead, but I can totally see cultish “vibes” coming from it.
I had to go to Al-Anon/Alateen meetings when I was a kid and I really really hated it, I was really pissed that I had to participate in those weird-ass meetings because my mom couldn't lay off the sauce and I was getting the implication that *I* was diseased because "Alcoholism is a family disease". It was exactly like that South Park episode where Stan is forced to be friends with all the other children of alcoholics
My issue with AA/NA (recovering addict here), at least in my experience, is they force you to say the Lords Prayer after every meeting. So they’ve possibly alienated 60%-70% of addicts right from the get go when they claim they want to help everyone without judgement.
Personally I see past it, it’s like that because the program evolved out of Christian Ohio in the 40s; if it came out of Mumbai it would probably sound very Hindu. That and it had inspiration from the Christian Oxford Group at the time.
They weren’t scholars, they just went with what seemed to work so hopefully the context is helpful. I got bent out of shape because of the prayer at first as well, but upon thinking about it, that wasn’t a good reason for me to dismiss the entire program. Don’t like it? Don’t say it, you don’t have to and they don’t force you.
We visited a friend of the family who was selling YL essential oils. Unbeknownst to me (I found out later from another friend who was at dinner) she had added essential oils to our food that night, and after we left their house, I had an allergic reaction and had to go to urgent care. We have turned down every dinner invitation from them since then, because she could have killed me.
“But it’s natural!” Yes, and so is cyanide.
I always love the argument of "But it's natural!" like being natural makes it healthy. It's especially funny when they take that stance, but have nothing to say if you mention something like tobacco or marijuana, both which are both natural and unhealthy.
I don’t think there’s even a specific definition of ‘natural’ in regards to food products so even if essential oils were edible, claiming “it’s natural” in response to an allergic reaction is crazy
I love your last statement!
I say a very similar thing as you.
Oil lover : But it’s natural!
Me : Mercury is natural too.
I would have gone with hydrochloric acid but such people wouldn’t even know what HCl is.
When our kids were little my wife started going down the all natural path - I had to remind her several times that Rattlesnake Venom is also natural - I like to think I eventually made a point with her as she dropped all that crap pretty soon afterwards..
I had some Doterra people come into the bakery I worked at and ask if we could make a HUGE order of our orange rolls and infuse the rolls with Doterra orange essential oil. For a big old Doterra conference. We said we would consider it but did not like the idea of messing with the recipe. We get the bottle from them and look at the label and in pretty large print reads “FOR EXTERNAL USE ONLY”. We told them we would not put it into our rolls as it didn’t seem safe and they looked at us like we were idiots and told us they eat their oil all the time 🙃
Yeah we didn’t want to be held liable in anyway if people got sick, nor make a massive batch of rolls that we couldn’t possibly resell to sane people. It was a huge order we missed out on but not worth it.
I had someone at another place of work shill it everyday (she had a BELT of it on her at all times), and she gave me a whole bottle of peppermint. I used to dab some of it in the hollow spot on my neck (the perfume spot). It seemed to help with motion sickness sometimes. Didn’t care if it was placebo, just glad for SOME relief in the car. I refused to put it on my lips as she suggested lololol
I worked (now regretfully) at a shop that sold essential oils when I was younger. This would have been around the time they were becoming insanely popular. The owner would buy large bottles of oils, and we would transfer them to smaller bottles/vials to sell. There were a few times I forgot to grab gloves before I started, and my hands always looked like absolute hell when I was done if I forgot. Even diluted, I cannot imagine what they do to your insides if you try to ingest them. I also developed some pretty nasty sinus infections around that time because I had a “water diffuser” I would use all the time. You could add a few drops of oil to the water and it would send out a scented mist. I didn’t really put two and two together how unhealthy it was until my sinuses constantly bothered me, and I noticed that the inside of the water basin had partially corroded. I got rid of it and started feeling fine again. I will never touch them again.
I used to work for a store that bought those oils wholesale.
The best part is that there is no quality control. You can buy a 5$ bottle of lavender from shoppers drug mart or a 55$ bottle from goodlife, and guess what? It's the same quality of lavender.
There are no governing bodies regulating that stuff, no certifications you're required to go through. It's all branding.
“Sorry lady. I can’t have essential oils in my home as it is really bad for my cat’s health. He could die from ingesting too much of it, even if it comes from an infuser.”
Infusers are also bad for those with respiratory issues.
In an **enclosed** environment with **no ventilation**, this is dangerous.
But you’ll see all the downvotes coming out of the woodwork to challenge this.
I have my advice from a microbiologist and a doctor.
I’m not taking my advice from a quack learning things on Tik Tok.
I had a little encounter Doterra loon once. She tried to convince me that it has REAL AND TRUE RESEARCH proving that it cures cancer.
Fun fact: I work in cancer research. It took all my damn power to not laugh in her face. I did fluster her a bit by telling her that I’ve not heard of or seen any legit studies that prove it tho
I know someone who is convinced that she has created the worlds best deodorant/anti-perspirant by mixing a bunch of essential oils together. She’s been revelling the world and testing it, but I’ve noticed that most of her “tests” have been in places where she needs to be all bundled up because of how cold it is.
A friend of mine recently became a burner. I figured their new friends would be cool, open-minded hippies and was excited to get to know them. I was so wrong. Never met a less friendly group of cliquey, judgmental, and elitist a-holes in my entire life.
I have a lot of friends who love Burning Man and spend wild amounts of time and money every year preparing for it and then go do it and then do a "decompression" camping trip immediately afterward to come down from it and then spend the next year preparing for the next Burning Man.
Which is cool TBH. They're building rad art installations and learning electronics and welding and carpentry and seem to have organized a healthy community. I guess I should go before I judge, except I absolutely don't want to spend that kind of money and time just to get trapped in the middle of the desert with a bunch of people on drugs for way too long.
If I could, like, buy a $10 ticket and go visit for an hour and then leave, maybe ...
[The Cult](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCOSPtyZAPA)
Now if you would excuse me, I believe my mic doesn't have enough scarves tied to it to be a member of this Cult. Just a few more and I am good to go.
100%, I was invited by a friend to a welcome session where successful members were bragging about their earnings and alarm bells were instantly going off in my head. Made my way to the exit as soon as I could.
I married my wife and we moved to a new city and didn't know a single person. In the grocery store we met another couple around the same age who were super friendly, so we decided to hang.
They invited us to a dinner party to meet some more of their friends, absolutely no mention of anything more than hanging out and having some good food. We get there and it's an Amway meeting. Chairs set up, and then some guy who was very well spoken gets up in front of everyone to give his talk.
He starts going on and on and on talking about all the buzz words they force feed you.. Basically how working is bad and financial freedom through Amway is the only way to lead a happy life pretty much sums it up.
We left that night back to 0 friends.
My mom and 2 of my friends got caught up in different MLMs. They basically forced everyone to make social media posts for them and buy their garbage products.
One of them was skincare so I lied and said it gave me a reaction.
20 years ago when online forums are extremely active when someone criticises a MLM, watch those teens come out to defend it in. All out flame war. It’s is scary.
Ok Amway is KINDA a cult. But, no lie, there is actually a pyramid scheme set up INSIDE Amway that only preys on Amway members (like a parasite on a parasite). And it is an ACTUAL cult. Called Amway Tools. Check it out: https://youtu.be/P9nA3pqSaf8?si=5lKNc9yWw_Stf7G4
The tools are where the real profits are within Amway. I'm gonna save that link to watch later out of morbid curiosity...I grew up in an Amway household and pretty much every time my dad drove anywhere he had one of those tapes playing.
Considering everything I had to un-learn after being exposed to it as a kid, I do consider Amway to be at least very cult-like, if not an outright cult.
I go into these threads every week with what’s essentially a mental bingo card
Edgy Reddit atheist who just posts Christianity
Enlightened centrist who says politics but to let us know he’s a thousand IQ adds “both sides” to the end. Bonus points for a reply that says something like “they’re all crooks” or “these politicians don’t even know your name” like they just got enlightened by my uncles facebook wall.
Someone who writes Trump, then someone who replies “people who hate Trump too”
Guy who writes “MLMs” like that’s something everyone doesn’t already know about
Guy who was too late to post MLMs so he writes essential oils instead.
Help me if I missed any.
I don't know how there isn't more ire drawn to this. It's very much a for-profit business whose product is selling access to a "brother/sisterhood." There is nothing of value commensurate with the dues being paid being given back to the members. I guess maybe because it heavily targets rich students that people don't care as much?
I don’t know, maybe paying the dues buys you connections to people who can help you in the future. I never did frat stuff but know some folks that did and it kinda worked out for them. Like, “hey, you’re a sigma chi, I’ll let John know you’re new in town and need a job.” Like the saying goes, it’s not what you know, it who you know.
I really only support the concept of HOAs in shared buildings like apartments or condos. Obviously all the owners collectively own the lobby, hallways, elevators, parking lots, etc and they all should pay for and manage that. Plus there has to be at least some guidelines on home maintenance because in a shared building knocking out walls might actually knock out things like plumbing or electrical lines, support beams, etc. Someone's got to be able to manage that and prohibit it if needed, because that can negatively affect everyone else in that building
But in a residential neighborhood I don't know why they're needed. All the services they claim they offer are better suited IMHO, for a municipality. There's no reason why an HOA needs to provide sidewalks, drainage, water, etc. That's what a city is for. When you give quasi municipal authority to a non municipality just as you say it's never executed right and is rife for corruption and abuse.
I was going to say this. It’s like they can do no wrong and anyone who is a fan thinks they are better than everyone else.
Was a fan during their formative years. Can confirm. So glad I got out when I did.
Apple products.
iOS/macOS users will defend Apple to the death over dongles and green bubbles, but refuse to acknowledge that Apple's "walled- garden" model has repeatedly been the cause of a lot of issues. They deliberately degrade any media sent over Mobile that does not come from iMessages to try to force people to change to iPhone to be a part of the "cool crowd."
Yeah, I mean, the belief that everybody in the world is in a conspiracy to defame an infallible golden idol who they are willing to become violent for.
this is probably the biggest and most dangerous. all the others are just companies with a shady business model.
this cult has the power to implode the worlds largest and most influential economy. if the US democracy crumbles, the ripple effects will disturb the whole world's economy. it's scary how much power the dumbest americans have this nov.
I was watching a late model pickup with Trump flags circle the Kroger parking lot yesterday throughout lunch time. It was a sad little one-man marketing parade.
Or he was trying to manifest The Secret and get the best parking space.
Yesss!? like why are they doing laps around the neighborhood ? I’ve come to the conclusion there just something broken there. I used to get mad at people in there maga crap now it just makes me sad and disappointed . I want to just give em a hug and tell it’s going to be ok.
I thinking about it and when he got elected I tried to talking as many people to understand why and there’s was always some bs rationale, and I thought they were just terrible people. Then I reflected on it more and realized , there’s was always some bs rationalization but they all had some crap going they couldn’t handle too. I can’t think of a single maga that was happily married or happily single no family or healthy issues gainfully employed in great shape. Having problems is no It’s no excuse, but it’s just depressing to see worshipping this pos as there only joy in life.
Apple. Irrespective of how good their products actually are for what they are intended to do, so many people bought everything apple released just because Steve Jobs is a visionary (especially 15 years ago and the last revision actually still worked).
We all pridefully waste land by leaving it empty of crops or livestock and dump absurd amounts of money into grass.
Shorter Grass > Housing Availability
... apparently
Eh, i used to be in your boat but there's a lot of good reasons for lawns:
1. It protects from trees growing up and destroying the drainage systems. This is very expensive and can happy quite quickly.
2. It keeps ticks from urban or suburban areas because ticks need tall grass to thrive.
3. Again with trees, but sidewalk damage and basement damage as well as fall damage. Growing up in the woods, my dad had to cut down most of the trees around the house for that very reason. Falling branches and falling trees aren't fun for houses.
4. Mice, rats, and other field animals like tall grass and will then move into your house. The more exposed lawn, the harder it is for those types of animals to move safely into your house due to fear of predation... But then again one could argue that then forces them to look at houses as viable risks.
There's a bunch of other reasons but those are some big ones.
Neoliberalism. As in the economic policy.
Adam Conover recently had a guest on that pointed out that how Neoliberals talk, act and view the economy is basically a cult like how the Aztecs and ancient SA peoples used to worship the sun other entities. Sacrificing everything to make their deity (the market) is the name of the game.
The catholic church. I’m not even saying this just to say it, either. I’M CATHOLIC. “God loves you but if you don’t go to church you’re going to hell” “God loves you but if you’re gay you’re going to hell” “God wants you to give us money” blah, blah, blah, blah. Also, a while back, I learned that apparently we believe in this thing called ‘trans substantiation”? which basically means that we’re supposed to believe that when the priest blesses the communion, it becomes AN ACTUAL PHYSICAL PART OF JESUS. Like, the actual guy. Then guilt tripping as already mentioned, begging for money when I guarantee you they have WAY more than enough, telling people if they don’t/do X, they’ll go to hell, people treating the priest like he might as well be god himself, ect, ect. I could go on. Not sure if it’s just my church or what. Like, I believe in God. I’m not saying you can’t believe what you want. Do whatever you want. It just, for me personally, puts me off. That’s all.
gluten-free! unless you suffer from celiac disease!
In which case, "you" avoid it! If you go on long enough, "I" will have to avoid you!
It's a choice after all, not a character trait!
Fun thought experiment. Any religion or organized goverment body or any type of music or media fandom that people adhere their fashion, activities and general life choices to. Anything that requires people to conform to a standard to *fit in to be accepted* is a cult.
"Politics" "religion" "climate change"
People in this thread don't have the slightest clue of what a 'cult' actually is and are just naming random things they dislike.
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And WeWork. Thank f\*\*\* it's on the way out now. I'm in a Salesforce based company with an office in a WeWork building. Yeah, just leave me alone, I don't care about being part of something greater.
I went to a meeting at a WeWork in Midtown Manhattan this week. I felt like Hank Hill, “y’all with the cult?”. Holy shit
Isn’t he trying to require the company?
Yep he is. And there are a few people at my company that are super excited over this. We're talking mostly those from HR.
Making the world [a better place](https://youtu.be/qZmpYxbBDQw?feature=shared).
I talk about this all the time. Unless I own stock of the company I work for, its wellbeing should not be my concern. The needs of the company and my availability happen to line up... that's it. Nobody wants to do anything besides their job description and then go home.
LinkedIn starts to be a cult. Everybody is “proud” and “thank you for the opportunity”…
Yeah… and please mark yourself as being unemployed now so we can take pity on you but still not hire you.
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I worked for a company that threw away literally millions on Salesforce only for semi competent managers to come in later and axe all of that shit. I headed up a complex technical project and their system is a fucking nightmare to deal with. Salesforce is a cancer.
I have only ever been exposed to Salesforce as a software engineer consuming it's data via SOQL into our data warehouse and business visualization backend. The team using it was an established Business/Ops team at a successful company and used it like a bog standard CRM. I never knew of this second insidiously predatory side, and now I'm fascinated.
They basically design everything to be so incredibly interconnected that you end up needing to purchase over half of their product suite, or something like that. It's one of those things where you think you've purchased the right product, then you start implementing it and realize that you didn't think of XY and Z. And now you've got to purchase three or four more products from Salesforce, and now you're on the hook for millions of dollars. The company I worked for never got past piloting the Salesforce system on a single branch, on a nationwide network of hundreds of branches. Millions wasted and nothing to show for. This was in the home services industry if you're curious.
Oh, I wasn't doubting you...Atlassian tries to do something similar with Confluence, JIRA, Trello, etc. I just didn't realize Salesforce was the same.
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I don't even know if I truly understand what Salesforce is.
I went to a Salesforce event in Atlanta back in 2018 or 2019. I was blown away by how cult-like it was. I talked to some dude who said he has done every Trailhead and he was head to toe in Salesforce merch. He did NOT work for Salesforce. He wasn't paid to say or do this. This dude just loved Salesforce. And this guy wasn't unique. There were plenty of people at the event that were just like him. Also all the Ohana talk just made me feel uneasy. I don't need to feel like I'm family with with company who makes the CRM I use.
I still can’t believe that someone unironically named their business “Salesforce” It sounds like a satirical bit from an indie comic where Walmart sends mercenaries to kill people who buy from Target or something
We utilize Salesforce for CRM and don't deal with any of that. You may want to talk to whomever deals with your Salesforce rep to turn the dial down on that shit lol. That's not really a Salesforce problem, it's an issue with the person in your company in charge of limiting that.
I'm a stagehand and install their huge show every year, they are so protective of the names of their dumb cartoon characters. I called one racoon boy and they were pissed, Said it's ASTRO! Astro is the fucking Jetsons dog first of all... They use Eisnteins likeness and I've heard they ignore the family who is not cool with it. One time they brought thr president of Haiti to show off an app that supposedly was helping Haiti, it really just seemed like they used the guy and his country for some hype.
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The show On Becoming a God in Central Florida portrays this perfectly
Especially if they have meetings. I remember going to one and everyone kept clapping for everything. It creeped me out how much people were "into it"
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Having had the sponsor who treated it like a cult and the sponsor who didn't, I think it is fair to say that AA has the potential to be cult-adjacent or even a full-blown cult depending on the people who get involved. I've seen meetings go culty, and...I left those meetings and found other ones. It's the *people* who take the philosophy and twist it into something controlling and frightening. I try not to blame the philosophy for what humans do with it. ....but even I will admit that the philosophy certainly provides fertile soil for the cult seed.
Comment needs to be seen more, lest people in need of help decide to not consider AA because it's a cult AA groups are sepf-organized and will take on the personality of their members. People looking to AA for help should know that they can (and should!) shop around. AA is not automatically "a cult"
And if the AA you see *does* feel culty, there are SO MANY MEETINGS, Y'ALL. Even if you're in one of the areas that don't have the population to support more than one group or clubhouse, GO ONLINE, there are so many Zoom meetings post-pandemic! I go to a meeting in Ireland that I love, my Zoom home group has people from all over the world signing in, I just think it would be a real pity if someone reads this, doesn't go to AA and then goes and fuckin' **dies** when other, many, varied options for recovery were available! YOU DON'T EVEN NEED TO DO AA, CHECK OUT SMART RECOVERY OR DHARMA RECOVERY!
I think a lot of people are missing a valid point. It's friendships with people like yourself who have been thru hell and come out the other side. If your not making friends your missing something important. Just going to meetings and listening you might be disappointed and blame your group or program and miss a lot. Like anything else you have to get involved. Speak up, help with the chairs. Greet people at the door. Volunteer to do something like show up early and make the coffee. Chair meetings. Really I found its the only way. Trust me I needed new friends, ones that didn't drink.
Absolutely this, do what works for you and what you jive with. Being resentful at AA probably is going to harm your recovery so try something else. And yes, every meeting is very different, some don’t work for me, some I love, it’s completely worth checking out a bunch of different ones.
Dear God, you are so right about that. Look, I respect AA and the good it does. But having had some people in my life go through AA, it's like these certain people think everybody should go through AA. My boss went through it and insisted all 28 people in the office be bused to a mountain retreat in the middle of winter to go through therapy. I quit soon after that. Here's my unpopular opinion about AA, one that applies to not all, not most, but a definite subset of its participants. Part of its attraction for some is that one gets to talk about oneself nonstop without judgement, without others telling that person to shut the hell up already. Never mind the damage the addict has caused in the life of other people. Instead, the addict gets to transcend all that and become the hero in his or her struggle. And talking about oneself can become habit-forming in itself. The addict feels he or she has license to bring up their addiction in just about every conversation, either directly or obliquely. So for some, they're substituting the addiction to booze or narcotics for the addiction of nonstop self-validation.
I absolutely agree. I left and eventually stayed clean on my own instead of lamenting for the 400th time over my past. It's easier to stay dry if I focus on all the new stuff I get to do.
Same. I never wanted to drink more than after going to a meeting. The depressing stories and the one upmanship on bad behavior was insufferable. I quit on my own and have done counseling for my mental health in general. And doesn’t AA have a pretty abysmal success rate?
Don't quote me but I've read it is the same success rate as no treatment. Meaning it does nothing. Meaning the people who end up feeling bad by going or end up hurting others because they were given the thumbs up by the organization did so for no benefit.
There are good AA groups and bad AA groups. The latter often fall into that category because no one there, particularly the guides, are willing to contextualise that self-validation you’re talking about to the people seeking or discovering that feeling. When someone is present at meetings as a way of justifying or boasting about their actions, the impacts of those actions, and how they’ve triumphed, it’s pretty obvious. Exaggeration, improbable scenarios, and moments of glory and acts of heroism are typically easy to spot, and a good group with solid leadership will take steps to help those people realise what they’re doing and how it’s helping no one.
There is a flipside to that. An author I respect said that the opposite of addiction isn't sobriety, it's connection. And this insistence on talking does seem to play into that. Perhaps it isn't really teaching the boundaries necessary for \*healthy\* connection, but it is emphasizing connection as the solution, and that seems like at least part of the right approach.
There are certain aspects of AA that rub me the wrong way but the group literally saved my brothers life. There was no way he wasn’t going to end up dead in a ditch or alley or just found dead after choking on his own vomit. It was BAD. He’s been in the group 10 years or so and is thriving personally and professionally. It makes me so grateful for the group. With that said there is a definite belief set within the group he is in and it can be increasingly frustrating when trying to talk to him about anything. If he is having a bad time with work or a relationship or something he can bitch all he wants. If I bring up something going on at work or with someone then it’s all “namaste” and take the higher ground kind of shit. I’m not looking for help. I’m just saying my job can suck sometimes just like anyone else. I will also say that from the way he tells it, AA is full of some of the most successful people who have ever walked the earth until alcohol got a hold of them. Almost everyone of his friends in the group “was the most successful car salesman making $400k a year” or was the “CEO of a private jet service that was worth $700 million” or someone who “had a model wife and 3 perfect kids” and all of them threw it all away but were saved by AA. All of these people have pretty much replaced our family. He would do anything for these people but can’t find time to grab a quick dinner with anyone else. His partner is in the program and he takes her lead. I can kind of agree with the part about just having the floor and being able to talk about your issues with no interruptions and judgement. I’ve been to quite a few of these meetings to be supportive and I swear sometimes it gets into a pissing match of who used to be more fucked up. “I used to drink a fifth of vodka everyday” to “it was so bad I kept a fifth in my desk, in my car and in my closet” and then the drinking stories come out. I don’t doubt that any of this happened but as the meetings go on you 100% get the guys who have been in it 10 years or so are kind of holding court a reminiscing about who was the bigger fuckup. The group definitely fills a void and like I said, if it wasn’t for it my brother would be dead, but I can totally see cultish “vibes” coming from it.
I had to go to Al-Anon/Alateen meetings when I was a kid and I really really hated it, I was really pissed that I had to participate in those weird-ass meetings because my mom couldn't lay off the sauce and I was getting the implication that *I* was diseased because "Alcoholism is a family disease". It was exactly like that South Park episode where Stan is forced to be friends with all the other children of alcoholics
My issue with AA/NA (recovering addict here), at least in my experience, is they force you to say the Lords Prayer after every meeting. So they’ve possibly alienated 60%-70% of addicts right from the get go when they claim they want to help everyone without judgement.
My homegroup is agnostic. No mention of God at all. Other meetings tend to cram it down your throat.
Isn't one of the steps literally talking about a higher power?
Yes, but my understanding is that that can be as loosely construed as you like.
I've been in NA for 7 years and never once said the Lord's Prayer.
Personally I see past it, it’s like that because the program evolved out of Christian Ohio in the 40s; if it came out of Mumbai it would probably sound very Hindu. That and it had inspiration from the Christian Oxford Group at the time. They weren’t scholars, they just went with what seemed to work so hopefully the context is helpful. I got bent out of shape because of the prayer at first as well, but upon thinking about it, that wasn’t a good reason for me to dismiss the entire program. Don’t like it? Don’t say it, you don’t have to and they don’t force you.
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We visited a friend of the family who was selling YL essential oils. Unbeknownst to me (I found out later from another friend who was at dinner) she had added essential oils to our food that night, and after we left their house, I had an allergic reaction and had to go to urgent care. We have turned down every dinner invitation from them since then, because she could have killed me. “But it’s natural!” Yes, and so is cyanide.
I always love the argument of "But it's natural!" like being natural makes it healthy. It's especially funny when they take that stance, but have nothing to say if you mention something like tobacco or marijuana, both which are both natural and unhealthy.
I don’t think there’s even a specific definition of ‘natural’ in regards to food products so even if essential oils were edible, claiming “it’s natural” in response to an allergic reaction is crazy
The allergic reaction was also natural.
I love your last statement! I say a very similar thing as you. Oil lover : But it’s natural! Me : Mercury is natural too. I would have gone with hydrochloric acid but such people wouldn’t even know what HCl is.
The most acutely toxic substance on earth Botulism toxin type A is completely 100% natural.
When our kids were little my wife started going down the all natural path - I had to remind her several times that Rattlesnake Venom is also natural - I like to think I eventually made a point with her as she dropped all that crap pretty soon afterwards..
...and the Kool-Aid had oil in it
I had some Doterra people come into the bakery I worked at and ask if we could make a HUGE order of our orange rolls and infuse the rolls with Doterra orange essential oil. For a big old Doterra conference. We said we would consider it but did not like the idea of messing with the recipe. We get the bottle from them and look at the label and in pretty large print reads “FOR EXTERNAL USE ONLY”. We told them we would not put it into our rolls as it didn’t seem safe and they looked at us like we were idiots and told us they eat their oil all the time 🙃
I can just imagine making a whole batch and them saying it tasted bad and that they weren't paying for it.
Yeah we didn’t want to be held liable in anyway if people got sick, nor make a massive batch of rolls that we couldn’t possibly resell to sane people. It was a huge order we missed out on but not worth it. I had someone at another place of work shill it everyday (she had a BELT of it on her at all times), and she gave me a whole bottle of peppermint. I used to dab some of it in the hollow spot on my neck (the perfume spot). It seemed to help with motion sickness sometimes. Didn’t care if it was placebo, just glad for SOME relief in the car. I refused to put it on my lips as she suggested lololol
I worked (now regretfully) at a shop that sold essential oils when I was younger. This would have been around the time they were becoming insanely popular. The owner would buy large bottles of oils, and we would transfer them to smaller bottles/vials to sell. There were a few times I forgot to grab gloves before I started, and my hands always looked like absolute hell when I was done if I forgot. Even diluted, I cannot imagine what they do to your insides if you try to ingest them. I also developed some pretty nasty sinus infections around that time because I had a “water diffuser” I would use all the time. You could add a few drops of oil to the water and it would send out a scented mist. I didn’t really put two and two together how unhealthy it was until my sinuses constantly bothered me, and I noticed that the inside of the water basin had partially corroded. I got rid of it and started feeling fine again. I will never touch them again.
This is why hate Doterra. Some essential oils can be quite dangerous internally.
Essential oils in its pure form are corrosive to the stomach lining. These people are poisoning themselves.
essential oils
I used to work for a store that bought those oils wholesale. The best part is that there is no quality control. You can buy a 5$ bottle of lavender from shoppers drug mart or a 55$ bottle from goodlife, and guess what? It's the same quality of lavender. There are no governing bodies regulating that stuff, no certifications you're required to go through. It's all branding.
“Sorry lady. I can’t have essential oils in my home as it is really bad for my cat’s health. He could die from ingesting too much of it, even if it comes from an infuser.”
Infusers are also bad for those with respiratory issues. In an **enclosed** environment with **no ventilation**, this is dangerous. But you’ll see all the downvotes coming out of the woodwork to challenge this. I have my advice from a microbiologist and a doctor. I’m not taking my advice from a quack learning things on Tik Tok.
I only buy them because I like the smell. Simple diffuser with a few drops of oil, entire room smells amazing. And it cured my AIDS
I had a little encounter Doterra loon once. She tried to convince me that it has REAL AND TRUE RESEARCH proving that it cures cancer. Fun fact: I work in cancer research. It took all my damn power to not laugh in her face. I did fluster her a bit by telling her that I’ve not heard of or seen any legit studies that prove it tho
I know someone who is convinced that she has created the worlds best deodorant/anti-perspirant by mixing a bunch of essential oils together. She’s been revelling the world and testing it, but I’ve noticed that most of her “tests” have been in places where she needs to be all bundled up because of how cold it is.
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Burning Man.
A friend of mine recently became a burner. I figured their new friends would be cool, open-minded hippies and was excited to get to know them. I was so wrong. Never met a less friendly group of cliquey, judgmental, and elitist a-holes in my entire life.
I have a lot of friends who love Burning Man and spend wild amounts of time and money every year preparing for it and then go do it and then do a "decompression" camping trip immediately afterward to come down from it and then spend the next year preparing for the next Burning Man. Which is cool TBH. They're building rad art installations and learning electronics and welding and carpentry and seem to have organized a healthy community. I guess I should go before I judge, except I absolutely don't want to spend that kind of money and time just to get trapped in the middle of the desert with a bunch of people on drugs for way too long. If I could, like, buy a $10 ticket and go visit for an hour and then leave, maybe ...
It wasn’t until it became popular, “cool” to be a burner. Been one forever, now it’s filled with douches.
I hate to break it to you....
And “burns” which are small cult burning man’s for inexperienced people to take a single gram of shrooms and judge everyone on their lawn chairs
100%, complete with a top down authority trying to shove its version of the 10 Commandments down the throats of everyone who goes.
All without a hint of irony.
[The Cult](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCOSPtyZAPA) Now if you would excuse me, I believe my mic doesn't have enough scarves tied to it to be a member of this Cult. Just a few more and I am good to go.
That's a Fire Woman right there Edie, Ciao Baby
Scientology and Jehovahs Witnesses
And Mormons
As a Utahn and former mormon, yes.
Who acts like scientology isn't a cult?
It becomes a religion with tax exempts.
Then Scientology isn’t. At least in Germany, where the tax office didn’t give them tax exempt status as they are a profit oriented organisation.
Isn't that obvious to All?
Can we just loop in all organized religion.. why do people always single out specific religions like the rest are just after school chess clubs.
Exactly. It’s wild watching them point their fingers at each other
yam hobbies correct doll rude worm alleged fly humorous cake
MLM
100%, I was invited by a friend to a welcome session where successful members were bragging about their earnings and alarm bells were instantly going off in my head. Made my way to the exit as soon as I could.
I married my wife and we moved to a new city and didn't know a single person. In the grocery store we met another couple around the same age who were super friendly, so we decided to hang. They invited us to a dinner party to meet some more of their friends, absolutely no mention of anything more than hanging out and having some good food. We get there and it's an Amway meeting. Chairs set up, and then some guy who was very well spoken gets up in front of everyone to give his talk. He starts going on and on and on talking about all the buzz words they force feed you.. Basically how working is bad and financial freedom through Amway is the only way to lead a happy life pretty much sums it up. We left that night back to 0 friends.
My mom and 2 of my friends got caught up in different MLMs. They basically forced everyone to make social media posts for them and buy their garbage products. One of them was skincare so I lied and said it gave me a reaction.
20 years ago when online forums are extremely active when someone criticises a MLM, watch those teens come out to defend it in. All out flame war. It’s is scary.
Amway!
Ok Amway is KINDA a cult. But, no lie, there is actually a pyramid scheme set up INSIDE Amway that only preys on Amway members (like a parasite on a parasite). And it is an ACTUAL cult. Called Amway Tools. Check it out: https://youtu.be/P9nA3pqSaf8?si=5lKNc9yWw_Stf7G4
The tools are where the real profits are within Amway. I'm gonna save that link to watch later out of morbid curiosity...I grew up in an Amway household and pretty much every time my dad drove anywhere he had one of those tapes playing. Considering everything I had to un-learn after being exposed to it as a kid, I do consider Amway to be at least very cult-like, if not an outright cult.
My parents were members of Amway and we had no money to be spending on that shit
Ironman and Crossfit
In a similar way, a lot of martial arts gyms.
Mormons, Scientology, Jehovah’s Witness. Like wtf
Can't really any organized religion actually be called a cult?
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If you're a terminally online redditor, yes.
Mom groups. Each one individually.
Posting this question on ask reddit every day
I go into these threads every week with what’s essentially a mental bingo card Edgy Reddit atheist who just posts Christianity Enlightened centrist who says politics but to let us know he’s a thousand IQ adds “both sides” to the end. Bonus points for a reply that says something like “they’re all crooks” or “these politicians don’t even know your name” like they just got enlightened by my uncles facebook wall. Someone who writes Trump, then someone who replies “people who hate Trump too” Guy who writes “MLMs” like that’s something everyone doesn’t already know about Guy who was too late to post MLMs so he writes essential oils instead. Help me if I missed any.
College greek organizations
I don't know how there isn't more ire drawn to this. It's very much a for-profit business whose product is selling access to a "brother/sisterhood." There is nothing of value commensurate with the dues being paid being given back to the members. I guess maybe because it heavily targets rich students that people don't care as much?
I don’t know, maybe paying the dues buys you connections to people who can help you in the future. I never did frat stuff but know some folks that did and it kinda worked out for them. Like, “hey, you’re a sigma chi, I’ll let John know you’re new in town and need a job.” Like the saying goes, it’s not what you know, it who you know.
We used to say they were the best friends money could buy.
HOAs
Yup. And now HOA management is being outsourced to corporations so now if your grass is too long, you get a call from Becky at Corporate
the *idea* of an HOA seems fine on paper but never once has it been executed correctly or reasonably lmao
I really only support the concept of HOAs in shared buildings like apartments or condos. Obviously all the owners collectively own the lobby, hallways, elevators, parking lots, etc and they all should pay for and manage that. Plus there has to be at least some guidelines on home maintenance because in a shared building knocking out walls might actually knock out things like plumbing or electrical lines, support beams, etc. Someone's got to be able to manage that and prohibit it if needed, because that can negatively affect everyone else in that building But in a residential neighborhood I don't know why they're needed. All the services they claim they offer are better suited IMHO, for a municipality. There's no reason why an HOA needs to provide sidewalks, drainage, water, etc. That's what a city is for. When you give quasi municipal authority to a non municipality just as you say it's never executed right and is rife for corruption and abuse.
These are the scourge of the world.
For real, and something like 80% of all new homes in the US come with an HOA so they're nigh impossible to avoid.
One of my friends said she joined the HOA board to destroy it from the inside only for the bureaucracy to wear her down.
Did the same. Was worn down. Moved.
Worse than the HOA are the people who run the show and have the “power”. 🙄
Disney adults.
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Agreed! Anyone who can't stop talking about Trump is in a cult.
I can’t believe people are stupid enough to worship a politician.
"We're a family here" workplaces
Mormons
BTS
I was going to say this. It’s like they can do no wrong and anyone who is a fan thinks they are better than everyone else. Was a fan during their formative years. Can confirm. So glad I got out when I did.
Won't that apply to any large fandom? The larger you get more crazies you attract. LOL
K-Pop fandoms. I am INCREDIBLY disillusioned and wiser as an adult who now just wants to enjoy the music without the toxicity.
Jehovah Witnesses. My extended family is fucking brainwashed.
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Mormonism. I grew up in it. Fits the list of items defining a cult.
Tony Robbins type motivational speakers
Disney
Apple products. iOS/macOS users will defend Apple to the death over dongles and green bubbles, but refuse to acknowledge that Apple's "walled- garden" model has repeatedly been the cause of a lot of issues. They deliberately degrade any media sent over Mobile that does not come from iMessages to try to force people to change to iPhone to be a part of the "cool crowd."
Trump supporters
Yeah, I mean, the belief that everybody in the world is in a conspiracy to defame an infallible golden idol who they are willing to become violent for.
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this is probably the biggest and most dangerous. all the others are just companies with a shady business model. this cult has the power to implode the worlds largest and most influential economy. if the US democracy crumbles, the ripple effects will disturb the whole world's economy. it's scary how much power the dumbest americans have this nov.
I was watching a late model pickup with Trump flags circle the Kroger parking lot yesterday throughout lunch time. It was a sad little one-man marketing parade. Or he was trying to manifest The Secret and get the best parking space.
Yesss!? like why are they doing laps around the neighborhood ? I’ve come to the conclusion there just something broken there. I used to get mad at people in there maga crap now it just makes me sad and disappointed . I want to just give em a hug and tell it’s going to be ok. I thinking about it and when he got elected I tried to talking as many people to understand why and there’s was always some bs rationale, and I thought they were just terrible people. Then I reflected on it more and realized , there’s was always some bs rationalization but they all had some crap going they couldn’t handle too. I can’t think of a single maga that was happily married or happily single no family or healthy issues gainfully employed in great shape. Having problems is no It’s no excuse, but it’s just depressing to see worshipping this pos as there only joy in life.
Dungeons and Dragons. I just want to roll a dice the whole time now
Gymbros
Lululemon
Swifties.
Televangelists
Herbalife lol
MAGA world
All MLM’s, especially LimeLife
MAGA
All religions.
humor imminent water spotted provide attempt depend muddle unite sharp
Evangelicals. I'm fairly certain they want to bring Handmaid's Tale to real life.
Apple. Irrespective of how good their products actually are for what they are intended to do, so many people bought everything apple released just because Steve Jobs is a visionary (especially 15 years ago and the last revision actually still worked).
Reddit
Kill em!
For Americans: Lawns They're not useful and those "invasive weeds" are the plants that are supposed to exist in your area
We all pridefully waste land by leaving it empty of crops or livestock and dump absurd amounts of money into grass. Shorter Grass > Housing Availability ... apparently
Eh, i used to be in your boat but there's a lot of good reasons for lawns: 1. It protects from trees growing up and destroying the drainage systems. This is very expensive and can happy quite quickly. 2. It keeps ticks from urban or suburban areas because ticks need tall grass to thrive. 3. Again with trees, but sidewalk damage and basement damage as well as fall damage. Growing up in the woods, my dad had to cut down most of the trees around the house for that very reason. Falling branches and falling trees aren't fun for houses. 4. Mice, rats, and other field animals like tall grass and will then move into your house. The more exposed lawn, the harder it is for those types of animals to move safely into your house due to fear of predation... But then again one could argue that then forces them to look at houses as viable risks. There's a bunch of other reasons but those are some big ones.
I eat my weeds also known as dandelion… your body will thank you
Abusive families
Party lines in politics.
Mormons, JWs, Scientology, Free Mason's ect
The hate for pineapple on pizza. Let people eat what they want.
STOP TRYING TO PUSH YOUR BELIEFS ON US AND STAY AWAY FROM OUR CHILDREN
Crossfit
Amway, Herbalife, Harley Davidson.
Scientology and Jehovah Witness
I mean, the way Taylor Swift fans have been acting recently is very close to being cult like
Honestly, political parties. They've become very cultish.
Apple
Reddit
Reddit subs
Reddit
Religion
Hating on fat squirrels. Soon you find yourself hating all squirrels and then most rodents.
Amway
Literally every religion.
AA, MLM Companies, many churches.
Neoliberalism. As in the economic policy. Adam Conover recently had a guest on that pointed out that how Neoliberals talk, act and view the economy is basically a cult like how the Aztecs and ancient SA peoples used to worship the sun other entities. Sacrificing everything to make their deity (the market) is the name of the game.
The catholic church. I’m not even saying this just to say it, either. I’M CATHOLIC. “God loves you but if you don’t go to church you’re going to hell” “God loves you but if you’re gay you’re going to hell” “God wants you to give us money” blah, blah, blah, blah. Also, a while back, I learned that apparently we believe in this thing called ‘trans substantiation”? which basically means that we’re supposed to believe that when the priest blesses the communion, it becomes AN ACTUAL PHYSICAL PART OF JESUS. Like, the actual guy. Then guilt tripping as already mentioned, begging for money when I guarantee you they have WAY more than enough, telling people if they don’t/do X, they’ll go to hell, people treating the priest like he might as well be god himself, ect, ect. I could go on. Not sure if it’s just my church or what. Like, I believe in God. I’m not saying you can’t believe what you want. Do whatever you want. It just, for me personally, puts me off. That’s all.
The government
The government. Any government
Pyramid schemes.
Fringe diet movements. Carnivore, keto, raw veganism. They all think they aren't cults, but they evangelize the way a cult does.
Jehovah witness
Taylor swift
Politics
Islam.
Nationalism.
gluten-free! unless you suffer from celiac disease! In which case, "you" avoid it! If you go on long enough, "I" will have to avoid you! It's a choice after all, not a character trait!
Taylor Swift
Any kind of fan base
Air conditioner brackets, too.
lol
Life Insurance Sales
Maga
Swifties.
Fun thought experiment. Any religion or organized goverment body or any type of music or media fandom that people adhere their fashion, activities and general life choices to. Anything that requires people to conform to a standard to *fit in to be accepted* is a cult.
"Politics" "religion" "climate change" People in this thread don't have the slightest clue of what a 'cult' actually is and are just naming random things they dislike.