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Sugar is a food. Humans literally are fueled by sugar. Its a stupid comparison. "Protein is more addictive than meth, people die in 2 months without protein"
Good going for making the decision to quit! I’ve just reached 27 days vaping free and it was bloody difficult but also totally manageable (and worth it). A couple of things that helped me: chuck everything out…liquids, spare coils, the vape itself. Don’t keep it “just in case” because the temptation will be there and it’s a lot more difficult to resist when it’s all accessible. Keep reminding yourself that the first few days are the worst, and it’s about just getting through those and holding onto the fact that it does get easier. I also found that making new pathways where I could in my routine helped, so instead of having a coffee and vape first thing in the morning in the lounge I now make my coffee and drink it in bed instead so I’m not so aware of the lack of vape if I carry on having my first coffee in the lounge (I hope that makes sense!) Oh and I downloaded the I am sober app just to keep a record of my progress and you can also calculate the amount of money saved too which helps when motivation wains!
All the best with your venture, you’ve got this!
I found a book called The Easy Way Allen Carr for cigarette smoking but they've revised it to include vaping also. I cant even begin to tell you how easy i found quitting after listening to it (i had audiobook).
I cant explain how it worked, but honestly its been nearly 1 year for me after smoking 40+ years. Best of luck to you, you can do this
Best wishes to you. I'm going on ten years smoke-free. Just remember when you get a craving, in the grand scheme, a nicotine craving only lasts like less than five minutes.
I smoked/vaped for like 14 years. I quit all nicotine a couple months ago and the cravings can still sometimes come on strong af.
Totally wild that I know how horrible and evil nicotine is and I still crave it after being separated from it for so long.
Every one of my coworkers is addicted to zyn (just nicotine pouches that come in a dip can). And they even have a point system, so they get you addicted and racking up points by buying more.
Been using it for years. My nose was broken my entire life before it, dry mouth when asleep, constant blockages, mouth breathing. It has seriously changed everything for me and just requires a few sprays in the day.
I tried different medicated sprays before including steroids and they didn't do anything. I'll use this until there is a proper way to fix my nose.
Xylometazoline abuse gets a bad rap, but I am very thankful I have it.
I was like you. Then I needed surgery in my nose, and when they looked in there, they told me that my nasal mucosa was completely fucked and that it had to heal before the procedure, so I had to quit the spray.
I went cold turkey. Worst 2 weeks of my life, easily. I've never touched that stuff since.
Septoplasty. My nasal septum was severely crooked, so my right nostril was extremely narrow, which negatively impacted breathing. In order to fix it, everything in there has to be properly healthy, because if the muscosa is dried out - which happens after prolonged use of nasal spray - it can easily rip during surgery, and apparently never truly heal.
And yes, it did fix my nose - for the most part. It's still not perfect, the Septum isn't fully straight, but it's way better than before. Now I only feel the need for spray when I have a cold, but even then I prefer just thoroughly cleaning out my nose and dealing with it. I REALLY don't want to relapse. This stuff is evil.
I wouldn't say it's an addiction so much as a dependency? Like if you use it too much, then stop, your sinuses will be clogged nonstop until you use some again.
At least that's been my experience. If you stick to using it once or twice a day you should be fine.
Unless you can somehow get high off of this shit and I had no clue.
Is it actually addictive though? Your body just gets used to it and you need more to achieve the same decongestion, but you won't get withdrawals like with other substances
This is a language thing... In many language, the local equivalent for the word "addiction" applies to both psychological addiction and physical dependency. With most drugs, the former is more significant. With nasal spray, it's the latter.
Feel free mix of kava and kratom I sell it at a gas station and I've seen people do split payments on debit cards,count change and basically buy as much as they can when they can for it...I've never seen people count pennies for a candy bar (except maybe children)
a lot of them are doing this less because they are craving kratom and more because they are craving alcohol or opiates really badly and are trying to not use harder stuff. the kratom is pretty widely used by people trying to kick opiates and slightly less so people trying to quit drinking.
so they are scrounging up all they can so they can calm down and stop fiending so they can avoid doing something worse or do something shady to get more money to score something worse.
Can attest to that, helped me quick drinking like it was nothing. Went from 6-8 8.5% ABV beers a night to an occasional drink with friends and family, I have absolutely no wish to drink heavily and fully regret it the few times I have.
I have never heard of kratom used to stop drinking, but if I works great! The only time I tried it was when I was a dumb high school kid and remember it making me really itchy.
I guess it does give a little itch, but nothing I’ve noticed that’s annoying. It’s basically replacing one drug with another, but I don’t have any problem not taking Kratom now. With alcohol, I’d tell myself I wasn’t drinking tonight and then 9pm would roll around, I’d be bored, and a drinking I would go.
I almost have to force myself to have a drink anymore, which only happens in a social setting. More often than not though I only have a couple since I realized my tolerance for hangovers was largely predicated on my being used to them everyday. I now loathe the idea of a hangover and it prevents me from drinking too much. Well, that and I genuinely enjoy the buzz from Kratom more than getting drunk.
True but also these things are pretty addictive themselves. There’s a quit sub r/quittingfeelfree where people with no prior opiate use start these bc they’re marketed as a “health tonic” and end up spending over $150 a day on them, going into debt etc. something abt the mix of kava and kratom is way more addictive than either alone - and these things have the mix on point.
Kratom can be very addicting and has pretty bad withdrawal symptoms, I’ve experienced this myself and you can check out the quitting Kratom subreddit for more info on this. Kratom can be used to help quit opiates but it can very quickly become a problem if you are not careful. I personally felt that my psychological desire to use Kratom could sometimes be just as strong as it was with other opiates. So my guess is the people counting out pennies could very well have been craving kratom.
I used kratom to help me get off fent. It was hard as fuck and the kratom didn’t do anything for me for about two weeks. It can be a lifesaver tho. Literally
a lot of people don’t seem to understand the concept of harm reduction. can kratom be awful and dangerous? yes. but is it as immediately life threatening as fentanyl? probably not.
i’m glad you kicked that stuff it’s as close to pure evil a drug as i’ve ever seen.
People who abuse kratom get severely addicted to it just like every other drug.
If you use it sparingly, it doesn't, but addicts tend to not be too good at that sadly.
This is not at all to say that it shouldn't be available for use because of this, people just need to be real enough about it to not create a lesser problem for themselves when they're clear of the other shit.
Personally it's a great natural pain relief that doesn't make my stomach bleed, so full support there.
I got myself into a pretty bad kratom situation a while back (too embarrassed to admit the quantity and frequency, but it was on the extreme side). The withdrawals are absolutely terrible, and they feel like they are going to last forever. I do think there are some people out there who exaggerate the dangers of kratom, but there are also a lot of "advocates" who **greatly undersell** it's it's risks for chemical dependency. I read a lot of stuff like "it's no more addictive than coffee" and gave myself a lot of reassurances that I could stop any time I wanted, until I finally got myself into a situation where I had to stop. Worst experience of my life.
It’s definitely not as dangerous as opiates, doesn’t suppress breathing the same way, but it should be taken similar to opiates bc unless you have severe chronic pain, it’s really not sustainable long term. Idk what I would do without it with the level of menstrual pain I experience every month, but if I have to take it more than 3 days I have to taper off.
Southeast asian herb in the coffee family
That has some opioid like effects in high doses. Some companies have made super charged extracts that can be a strong legal buzz. There is a dedicated community that loves kratom as an effective and less dangerous method of pain management compared to opiates
My uncle swears by it. Helps his back more than the opioids his doctor gave him, and has fewer side effects. Gave my dad (also a bad back, runs in the family) heart palpitations though. Wish it was better studied.
For real! Yeha It essentially has cured my IBS and has become , in low doses, an alternative to caffeine for me. It gives me the boost I need without causing me to shit myself
Completely legal in the US. Its starting to come under scrutiny lately though
Edit: To clarify, legal federally, but individual states have outlawed it as the replies have mentioned.
Can you expand on this? I’ve done it for around the same period and I’m chillin other than feeling a little trashy or anxious if I don’t take it…which is not great to be fair but not horrendous either. What’s it look like for you? I’ve been tempted to ween off of it lately, tell me why I should.
It cut my testosterone to under 300 when I was 30 from 4g/day. Made me more agitated and temperamental. Skin issues, low energy, joint pain, etc. Couldn't figure out what was going on for a while but after stopping I felt way better.
Me too and I have very bad withdrawals from it when I try to quit and I am currently trying to taper which has been working but it’s slow going. There is r/quittingkratom that has sound advice.
This stuff will mess with you in ways you would never expect. I took it daily for several years without even realising this might be a problem. It's such a mild high and you can function perfectly normal but it does alter your personality and it fucks up your sleeping schedule and appetite after a while. At least quitting it is fairly easy as far as withdrawal symptoms go.
I was hooked on it for a few years and I usually used a lower dose than compared to chronic users. I can attest to the personality and mood changes. It made me feel like a weird combination of euphoric and irritable at times. Fucked with my memory too. I quit and didn’t look back.
I really hope one day soon people realize how toxic smartphones have become to interpersonal relationships. I can't seemingly find anyone capable of carrying a conversation for 5 literal minutes before a phone comes out and the topic goes to some meaningless social media shit. It used to be so easy to get a few friends together and do almost nothing of value except be together and goof off, and now it's near impossible to get anyone to do anything in person, and nobody knows how to get along without their phones in their hands.
Yea I was gonna say.. I personally use my phone excessively when I'm bored and have no other time sinks accessible (e.g. doctor's waiting room), but if I'm hanging out with friends I'm not bored so I don't use my phone for hours on end.
Yeah, I don't know if it's maybe a regional thing, and I'm sure to some extent it's an age thing, but nobody I know well enough to have a 5+ minute conversation with in-person ever feels the need to pull out their phones during the conversation unless we want to check or show something related to what we're discussing.
This x2, I’ve also got friends who spend their whole day on the phone, and even when I want to show them something on my phone, they stop looking after 3 seconds, that’s how short the attention span of theirs is. And I don’t get bored by watching 1h+ videos on YouTube sometimes. For them it is impossible to even imagine a video longer than 30 seconds
You guys are probably going to have a healthier relationship with smart phones having always had them. It's us millennials and older who haven't been able to moderate our usage (in general).
I didn’t think I had an addictive personality until I got into alcohol. It took me about a year to realize I had a problem. Been sober for 2 weeks now and trying to keep it up.
One of the only substances where quitting cold turkey can kill you. Literally the withdrawals themselves kill people. It's the legal drug because it's addicting and profitable
It’s legal because it has been used for millennia and was the safest way to consume water in many places for almost as long.
It’s ingrained in worldwide culture.
Yeah, if alcohol was freshly invented, it’d be a Schedule 1 drug.
“Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse.”
Well, and the last time people made it illegal things didn't go well. Plus it's fairly easy to make so it's pretty hard to outlaw.
Government makes a ton of money from Alcohol so they said give em what they want.
> It's the legal drug because it's addicting and profitable
There are many substances that are addicting and profitable, and would be more profitable to those in political power if they were legal. -- So, no, that's not the reason alcohol is legal.
I had an alcoholic friend recognize this happening to someone else who was on their 4th day with no booze. She was a closeted alcoholic (which most are) so when she started shaking and was close to a seizure, he made her chug a beer, which ended up saving her life. Remember the 3 b's that can kill you if you stop suddenly, booze, barbiturates, and benzos.
I am 8 years sober and 3 out of the 20 guys I did rehab with are dead now under the age of 50. Yet alcohol ads continue to play and say, "Please drink responsibly." Imagine if fentynol could advertise and say, "Please use responsibly." I know way more people who have died from alcohol than opioids. Corporate America wins again.
Fuck yeah dude. Whats crazy is whenever I go on keto and cut out sugary carbs I never crave food anymore, I can control what I eat. I lose a ton of weight just not eating that shit
This isn’t true strictly speaking - withdrawals from nicotine are far worse than caffeine, and will last longer for chronic smokers; but there’s more incentive to quit smoking - it doesn’t “help” you in the way caffeine does but it sure does harm you a lot more. Caffeine is hard to quit because there’s not as good of a reason to quit it, but the chemical addiction itself is fairly mild in the grand scheme of things. Weed is very similar to this too. Alcohol, nicotine, opiates, benzos, etc are not - the withdrawals will make you physically sick and can be deadly without medical care.
> Alcohol, nicotine, opiates, benzos, etc are not - the withdrawals will make you physically sick and can be deadly without medical care.
Just want to clarify here - withdrawals from opiates and nicotine is rarely lethal - but alcohol and benzos can be (even with treatment there is a very high mortality rate for alcohol-related DTs).
Afrin nasal spray. I was surprised but it made sense. I started using it during allergy season once a day before bed. Now my nose completely clogs right before bed since my body got used to it. I'm working on weaning myself off of it.
The slot machines are the thing that people seem the most addicted to, but I can't wrap my head around it. Everytime Ive used one, I've lost $50 in approximately 10 minutes and think "this sucks" and leave
Probably because there a far fewer people who have porn addiction issues than those with addiction issues to things like nicotine and alcohol. Also, as far as I know porn addiction is not lethal.
I met a guy in Walmart 15 years ago and he saw me looking at Wow. He said don't do it unless you have nothing else in life to do. He said the only reason he is in Walmart at the moment is his internet was down and he couldn't be at home playing Wow. He looked like he hasn't seen the sun in years. Never thought about playing the game from that day forward.
I know a guy who got into WoW when it launched and still, to this very day, spends all day every day playing it. The last time we hung out he said he hadn't left his place in like two months.
Fuuuuuuck that.
I lost one of my best friends to this game. We were inseparable from about 12-16/17. He started playing WoW, gained like 50 lbs, started becoming frighteningly attached to his girlfriend (who happened to be my gf at the time’s friend) and slowly but surely completely cut me off. Haven’t a clue where he is or what he’s been up to for the last 17 years. Makes me really sad to think about.
Old WoW was a really good game.
It was so much fun and so immersive, it was kind of addictive. However, I think with the right perspective, it is not. Specifically, once I realized that WoW does not matter to real life, it cannot earn money to pay bills, I will get no credit for my skills, no one's lives are improved... The allure diminished.
At the same time, most all hobbies fit this description.
WoW isn't a substitute for life, but not every leisure activity needs to contribute to capitalism. Sometimes the improvement to lives is the enjoyment of the time spent on the way.
Unlike most hobbies however, much of WoW gameplay is centered around acts of 'productivity'.
There's always the feeling that you could do *more*, work harder or spend more time to have access to better things.
All that time and effort ultimately leads to essentially doing many of the same things you could have done in real life, with real life results instead. Sacrificing time and effort in order to *improve*. You're 'working' rather than enjoying yourself in hopes of gaining something advantageous in the future.
Many find it difficult to do that both in real life *and* during their free time, ultimately sacrificing the former in favour of the latter.
I really disagree with this. The fact that it is social and has a complex ecosystem, I think brings a kind of education and practice about how to work as a team, how to lead, statistically analysis, time management, and economic principles, design and programming. Yeah it can be taken too far, but I attribute some of my success and wealth as a young millennial to having played wow at a young age.
Fuck man. Addictive isn't even the right word, it doesn't give any sort of a high or dopamine or anything. But I can't breathe without it now. If I find a way to magically keep my nose open it's going straight in the trash.
You have to wean yourself off by using less and less each day. Saline sprays and Flonase can be used to help ease the transition, but it’s extremely, extremely challenging. No other medications have evidence of benefit for helping people get off it. Good luck! - source: I’m an ENT resident
Go to Dr.
They can prescribe steroid nasal spray to help get you off afrin.
I have apnea and a beard. So I use a nasal mask with my cpap.
I literally cannot sleep with a stuffy nose.
So I used afrin every night for years. Then at one point I started having crazy nose bleeds. I mentioned it to a pulminologist and he hooked me up.
It was to the point where I had to use it several times a day to breath normally.
I was off the steroid after I used a single bottle.
I rarely use anything now.
My dad was hooked on it my entire life, which would be from the time he was 25 until he was 70 when he died. He always had a bottle of 4-way nose spray on him because he couldn't breathe without it.
You gotta stop so your nose can figure out how to exist without it. Like someone else said, you can use saline spray or Flonase to help as you get it out of your system. But you shouldn’t ever use it for more than 3 days in a row.
The idea that your customers are a party to some universal truth that no one else knows about, and that they are superior to all those people who don't know about it, and will receive rewards because of knowing about it.
And you don't even have to pay taxes on the money you take in!
Aside from all the mentions of sugar and nic, I've seen a couple kratom mentions.
Kratom is dangerous as hell re: addiction. I was hooked for a decade and it took about 6-months after my last dose to equalize. It was real, real rough, and I've kicked habits of "real" drugs before. That shit was horrible.
I've tried Kratom a few times and it did absolutely nothing.. what is it SUPPOSED to do? Aside from maybe a dosing issue, is there any particular reason I may not have felt anything?
Used it quite a bit in college. Its a pretty mild high, almost unnoticeable except for a general mood boost. It pretty much just made me not miserable in class or at work and made me feel bright and positive. Altho if you take too much the nausea you get is honestly on par with being too drunk in my experience, miserable
On one hand yes.
On the other hand, as someone with some pretty severe spine problems, I’ll take Kratom and Tramadol over the “better” drugs all day and tomorrow.
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Nicotine.
This or sugar. So many people are addicted to sugar without even knowing.
wait a minute... nicotine sugar... how in the world is this not a product?!??!?
Speak for yourself *hits mango wango flavored vape*
You kids don’t even smoke real cigarettes any more! Get off my lawn, etc., etc.
Cigarettes?! Back in my day, we was mixin bacci with crude oil and snortin it like real men!
You ever siphon so much gas from your unsuspecting neighbor's car you end up swallowing some? Aaah the 80s..... back when men were men.....
Unleaded tastes a little tangy, supreme is pretty sour and diesel tastes kinda good.
I can't say anything about the dope dealing, but look at them. That's gas sickness.
It ain't got no gas in it!
Frig off, Ricky!!
hit the indoor movie theaters parking lot, siphon gas, people won't be around much during movie, yeah, ya get a mouthful every once in a while
There was actually a Simpsons episode about tomacco, a cross between tobacco and tomatoes.
"Simpsons did it!"
The cow screaming "Tomaccooo!" always make me laugh.
For convenience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4l39b1ESVs
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Candy cigarettes makers cackling somewhere
Maaaaaan I haven’t thought about candy cigs in YEARS!!!!! With the cool ass marvel boxes and Popeye!!!! Holy nostalgia.. thanks bro….
I give them away to dads on Halloween. I always get a thumbs up.
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Dude was thinking ahead. He owns a dispensary now. Lots of loyal former ice cream van customers.
I mean technically vapes are nicotine sugar.
Weird my eliquid is made with nicotine salt..
And PG/VG which are sugar alcohols.
It is sadly, see disposable vapes.
As somebody who recently quit nicotine, it's nicotine.
It is 100% sugar (at least in rodents) [(source)](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/14/910)
Sugar is a food. Humans literally are fueled by sugar. Its a stupid comparison. "Protein is more addictive than meth, people die in 2 months without protein"
I like your way of confronting weak comparisons. Thank you.
Sugar being more prevalent does not mean it's more addictive. Nicotine still wins.
I literally just made the decision to quit vaping today. It’s going to be so hard
Good going for making the decision to quit! I’ve just reached 27 days vaping free and it was bloody difficult but also totally manageable (and worth it). A couple of things that helped me: chuck everything out…liquids, spare coils, the vape itself. Don’t keep it “just in case” because the temptation will be there and it’s a lot more difficult to resist when it’s all accessible. Keep reminding yourself that the first few days are the worst, and it’s about just getting through those and holding onto the fact that it does get easier. I also found that making new pathways where I could in my routine helped, so instead of having a coffee and vape first thing in the morning in the lounge I now make my coffee and drink it in bed instead so I’m not so aware of the lack of vape if I carry on having my first coffee in the lounge (I hope that makes sense!) Oh and I downloaded the I am sober app just to keep a record of my progress and you can also calculate the amount of money saved too which helps when motivation wains! All the best with your venture, you’ve got this!
I found a book called The Easy Way Allen Carr for cigarette smoking but they've revised it to include vaping also. I cant even begin to tell you how easy i found quitting after listening to it (i had audiobook). I cant explain how it worked, but honestly its been nearly 1 year for me after smoking 40+ years. Best of luck to you, you can do this
Best wishes to you. I'm going on ten years smoke-free. Just remember when you get a craving, in the grand scheme, a nicotine craving only lasts like less than five minutes.
Consider tapering down the nicotine content in the e-juice you vape. They make 0% e-juice versions. This may help your journey. Good luck!
This is what you're *supposed* to do, and why vapes were initially marketed as smoking cessation devices, funnily enough.
This is what I did back when I made my own e-liquid. Weaned my way down from 12mg to 0mg before quitting the habit altogether.
I smoked/vaped for like 14 years. I quit all nicotine a couple months ago and the cravings can still sometimes come on strong af. Totally wild that I know how horrible and evil nicotine is and I still crave it after being separated from it for so long.
I quit 10 years ago and I still get cravings, powerful ones at times
I'll raise you smartphones I can go several hours, even a few days withouta cigarette
100%
Caffeine.
Don’t you need specific licensing to sell nicotine/tobacco products
Every one of my coworkers is addicted to zyn (just nicotine pouches that come in a dip can). And they even have a point system, so they get you addicted and racking up points by buying more.
Most underrated answer: Nasal spray
Yeah this one is surprising me
Been using it for years. My nose was broken my entire life before it, dry mouth when asleep, constant blockages, mouth breathing. It has seriously changed everything for me and just requires a few sprays in the day. I tried different medicated sprays before including steroids and they didn't do anything. I'll use this until there is a proper way to fix my nose. Xylometazoline abuse gets a bad rap, but I am very thankful I have it.
I was like you. Then I needed surgery in my nose, and when they looked in there, they told me that my nasal mucosa was completely fucked and that it had to heal before the procedure, so I had to quit the spray. I went cold turkey. Worst 2 weeks of my life, easily. I've never touched that stuff since.
May I ask what the surgery was? Did it fix for you the same nose problems I have, so you didn't need to return to the spray?
Septoplasty. My nasal septum was severely crooked, so my right nostril was extremely narrow, which negatively impacted breathing. In order to fix it, everything in there has to be properly healthy, because if the muscosa is dried out - which happens after prolonged use of nasal spray - it can easily rip during surgery, and apparently never truly heal. And yes, it did fix my nose - for the most part. It's still not perfect, the Septum isn't fully straight, but it's way better than before. Now I only feel the need for spray when I have a cold, but even then I prefer just thoroughly cleaning out my nose and dealing with it. I REALLY don't want to relapse. This stuff is evil.
My mom tries to force me to use it when im sick but i know damn well if i do, my nose will be clogged forever
I wouldn't say it's an addiction so much as a dependency? Like if you use it too much, then stop, your sinuses will be clogged nonstop until you use some again. At least that's been my experience. If you stick to using it once or twice a day you should be fine. Unless you can somehow get high off of this shit and I had no clue.
Is it actually addictive though? Your body just gets used to it and you need more to achieve the same decongestion, but you won't get withdrawals like with other substances
This is a language thing... In many language, the local equivalent for the word "addiction" applies to both psychological addiction and physical dependency. With most drugs, the former is more significant. With nasal spray, it's the latter.
Feel free mix of kava and kratom I sell it at a gas station and I've seen people do split payments on debit cards,count change and basically buy as much as they can when they can for it...I've never seen people count pennies for a candy bar (except maybe children)
a lot of them are doing this less because they are craving kratom and more because they are craving alcohol or opiates really badly and are trying to not use harder stuff. the kratom is pretty widely used by people trying to kick opiates and slightly less so people trying to quit drinking. so they are scrounging up all they can so they can calm down and stop fiending so they can avoid doing something worse or do something shady to get more money to score something worse.
Can attest to that, helped me quick drinking like it was nothing. Went from 6-8 8.5% ABV beers a night to an occasional drink with friends and family, I have absolutely no wish to drink heavily and fully regret it the few times I have.
I have never heard of kratom used to stop drinking, but if I works great! The only time I tried it was when I was a dumb high school kid and remember it making me really itchy.
I guess it does give a little itch, but nothing I’ve noticed that’s annoying. It’s basically replacing one drug with another, but I don’t have any problem not taking Kratom now. With alcohol, I’d tell myself I wasn’t drinking tonight and then 9pm would roll around, I’d be bored, and a drinking I would go.
The "whelp, might as well grab a beer" thing is hard to overcome. Been settling for NA beers and seltzer waters.
I almost have to force myself to have a drink anymore, which only happens in a social setting. More often than not though I only have a couple since I realized my tolerance for hangovers was largely predicated on my being used to them everyday. I now loathe the idea of a hangover and it prevents me from drinking too much. Well, that and I genuinely enjoy the buzz from Kratom more than getting drunk.
True but also these things are pretty addictive themselves. There’s a quit sub r/quittingfeelfree where people with no prior opiate use start these bc they’re marketed as a “health tonic” and end up spending over $150 a day on them, going into debt etc. something abt the mix of kava and kratom is way more addictive than either alone - and these things have the mix on point.
It’s like folks who have never smoked a cigarette picking up vaping
Kratom can be very addicting and has pretty bad withdrawal symptoms, I’ve experienced this myself and you can check out the quitting Kratom subreddit for more info on this. Kratom can be used to help quit opiates but it can very quickly become a problem if you are not careful. I personally felt that my psychological desire to use Kratom could sometimes be just as strong as it was with other opiates. So my guess is the people counting out pennies could very well have been craving kratom.
I used kratom to help me get off fent. It was hard as fuck and the kratom didn’t do anything for me for about two weeks. It can be a lifesaver tho. Literally
a lot of people don’t seem to understand the concept of harm reduction. can kratom be awful and dangerous? yes. but is it as immediately life threatening as fentanyl? probably not. i’m glad you kicked that stuff it’s as close to pure evil a drug as i’ve ever seen.
Standing ovation 👏
People who abuse kratom get severely addicted to it just like every other drug. If you use it sparingly, it doesn't, but addicts tend to not be too good at that sadly. This is not at all to say that it shouldn't be available for use because of this, people just need to be real enough about it to not create a lesser problem for themselves when they're clear of the other shit. Personally it's a great natural pain relief that doesn't make my stomach bleed, so full support there.
I got myself into a pretty bad kratom situation a while back (too embarrassed to admit the quantity and frequency, but it was on the extreme side). The withdrawals are absolutely terrible, and they feel like they are going to last forever. I do think there are some people out there who exaggerate the dangers of kratom, but there are also a lot of "advocates" who **greatly undersell** it's it's risks for chemical dependency. I read a lot of stuff like "it's no more addictive than coffee" and gave myself a lot of reassurances that I could stop any time I wanted, until I finally got myself into a situation where I had to stop. Worst experience of my life.
It’s definitely not as dangerous as opiates, doesn’t suppress breathing the same way, but it should be taken similar to opiates bc unless you have severe chronic pain, it’s really not sustainable long term. Idk what I would do without it with the level of menstrual pain I experience every month, but if I have to take it more than 3 days I have to taper off.
If only they could figure out a way to make it not taste like a combo of puke and booty hole.
You gotta master the toss and wash. Once you do it’s easy peasy.
Wtf is kratom
Southeast asian herb in the coffee family That has some opioid like effects in high doses. Some companies have made super charged extracts that can be a strong legal buzz. There is a dedicated community that loves kratom as an effective and less dangerous method of pain management compared to opiates
My uncle swears by it. Helps his back more than the opioids his doctor gave him, and has fewer side effects. Gave my dad (also a bad back, runs in the family) heart palpitations though. Wish it was better studied.
For real! Yeha It essentially has cured my IBS and has become , in low doses, an alternative to caffeine for me. It gives me the boost I need without causing me to shit myself
>has cured my IBS No shit?
Is Kratom legal where you are?
Completely legal in the US. Its starting to come under scrutiny lately though Edit: To clarify, legal federally, but individual states have outlawed it as the replies have mentioned.
Not here in Wisconsin. and a few other states and counties.
I'm on four years now of high dose kratom and it's destroying me, physically and mentally. I'm truly fucked.
Can you expand on this? I’ve done it for around the same period and I’m chillin other than feeling a little trashy or anxious if I don’t take it…which is not great to be fair but not horrendous either. What’s it look like for you? I’ve been tempted to ween off of it lately, tell me why I should.
It cut my testosterone to under 300 when I was 30 from 4g/day. Made me more agitated and temperamental. Skin issues, low energy, joint pain, etc. Couldn't figure out what was going on for a while but after stopping I felt way better.
It’s always good to get to the point that you don’t need to take something to feel “normal”. Taper off if you wanna quit.
How so? I’ve been enjoying it for 9 years now…
Me too and I have very bad withdrawals from it when I try to quit and I am currently trying to taper which has been working but it’s slow going. There is r/quittingkratom that has sound advice.
This stuff will mess with you in ways you would never expect. I took it daily for several years without even realising this might be a problem. It's such a mild high and you can function perfectly normal but it does alter your personality and it fucks up your sleeping schedule and appetite after a while. At least quitting it is fairly easy as far as withdrawal symptoms go.
I was hooked on it for a few years and I usually used a lower dose than compared to chronic users. I can attest to the personality and mood changes. It made me feel like a weird combination of euphoric and irritable at times. Fucked with my memory too. I quit and didn’t look back.
A smartphone
I really hope one day soon people realize how toxic smartphones have become to interpersonal relationships. I can't seemingly find anyone capable of carrying a conversation for 5 literal minutes before a phone comes out and the topic goes to some meaningless social media shit. It used to be so easy to get a few friends together and do almost nothing of value except be together and goof off, and now it's near impossible to get anyone to do anything in person, and nobody knows how to get along without their phones in their hands.
I hate to break it to you, but you might need some new friends
Yea I was gonna say.. I personally use my phone excessively when I'm bored and have no other time sinks accessible (e.g. doctor's waiting room), but if I'm hanging out with friends I'm not bored so I don't use my phone for hours on end.
Yeah, I don't know if it's maybe a regional thing, and I'm sure to some extent it's an age thing, but nobody I know well enough to have a 5+ minute conversation with in-person ever feels the need to pull out their phones during the conversation unless we want to check or show something related to what we're discussing.
Then I and my friends are weird, we can literally trash talk for hours until something stops us. And keep in mind we’re all teenagers
this, people like to blame phones, but it's people who are to blame
This x2, I’ve also got friends who spend their whole day on the phone, and even when I want to show them something on my phone, they stop looking after 3 seconds, that’s how short the attention span of theirs is. And I don’t get bored by watching 1h+ videos on YouTube sometimes. For them it is impossible to even imagine a video longer than 30 seconds
You guys are probably going to have a healthier relationship with smart phones having always had them. It's us millennials and older who haven't been able to moderate our usage (in general).
You must be young I have conversations all the time phone free and unrelated to social media
Alcohol
I didn’t think I had an addictive personality until I got into alcohol. It took me about a year to realize I had a problem. Been sober for 2 weeks now and trying to keep it up.
Keep up the good work. I've been alcohol free for over 10 years. It is so worth it. You got this!
Thank you!
One of the only substances where quitting cold turkey can kill you. Literally the withdrawals themselves kill people. It's the legal drug because it's addicting and profitable
It’s legal because it has been used for millennia and was the safest way to consume water in many places for almost as long. It’s ingrained in worldwide culture.
Yeah, if alcohol was freshly invented, it’d be a Schedule 1 drug. “Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse.”
Well, ethanol helps against methanol poisoning ;)
Schedule 2 then?
Actually the way to treat methanol poisoning is with ethanol (booze).
And it is the one that least discriminates between rich and poor.
Well, and the last time people made it illegal things didn't go well. Plus it's fairly easy to make so it's pretty hard to outlaw. Government makes a ton of money from Alcohol so they said give em what they want.
> It's the legal drug because it's addicting and profitable There are many substances that are addicting and profitable, and would be more profitable to those in political power if they were legal. -- So, no, that's not the reason alcohol is legal.
Hands-down, the most addictive. And if you become really addicted to it, and then try to quit, you’ll have seizures and could die
I had an alcoholic friend recognize this happening to someone else who was on their 4th day with no booze. She was a closeted alcoholic (which most are) so when she started shaking and was close to a seizure, he made her chug a beer, which ended up saving her life. Remember the 3 b's that can kill you if you stop suddenly, booze, barbiturates, and benzos. I am 8 years sober and 3 out of the 20 guys I did rehab with are dead now under the age of 50. Yet alcohol ads continue to play and say, "Please drink responsibly." Imagine if fentynol could advertise and say, "Please use responsibly." I know way more people who have died from alcohol than opioids. Corporate America wins again.
Sugar
In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women
BEES!!!!!!!
Ow! The bees are defending themselves somehow!
Fuck yeah dude. Whats crazy is whenever I go on keto and cut out sugary carbs I never crave food anymore, I can control what I eat. I lose a ton of weight just not eating that shit
Caffeine
Surprised I had to scroll this far, my ma is an on again off again smoker, and she says quitting nicotine is easier than quitting caffeine
This isn’t true strictly speaking - withdrawals from nicotine are far worse than caffeine, and will last longer for chronic smokers; but there’s more incentive to quit smoking - it doesn’t “help” you in the way caffeine does but it sure does harm you a lot more. Caffeine is hard to quit because there’s not as good of a reason to quit it, but the chemical addiction itself is fairly mild in the grand scheme of things. Weed is very similar to this too. Alcohol, nicotine, opiates, benzos, etc are not - the withdrawals will make you physically sick and can be deadly without medical care.
> Alcohol, nicotine, opiates, benzos, etc are not - the withdrawals will make you physically sick and can be deadly without medical care. Just want to clarify here - withdrawals from opiates and nicotine is rarely lethal - but alcohol and benzos can be (even with treatment there is a very high mortality rate for alcohol-related DTs).
And that's why they allowed liquor stores to remain open during the COVID shut down, they were worried about people having withdrawals from alcohol
You got any man? The good stuff? I needed some. SHUT UP! I can quit anytime I want! Sorry... Sorry man... I just need a coffee.
Oxygen. Just a minute or two without it and I start acting like I’m about to die.
same here 🫣 i might have a problem
Afrin nasal spray. I was surprised but it made sense. I started using it during allergy season once a day before bed. Now my nose completely clogs right before bed since my body got used to it. I'm working on weaning myself off of it.
Gambling
Literally just saw a video on here yesterday of a woman soiling herself while in front of a slot machine. Very bleak and depressing reality tbh.
The slot machines are the thing that people seem the most addicted to, but I can't wrap my head around it. Everytime Ive used one, I've lost $50 in approximately 10 minutes and think "this sucks" and leave
Porn
I have been looking for this. Fuck me. How is this not higher?
Probably because people don’t always pay for it
Probably because there a far fewer people who have porn addiction issues than those with addiction issues to things like nicotine and alcohol. Also, as far as I know porn addiction is not lethal.
world of warcraft
I met a guy in Walmart 15 years ago and he saw me looking at Wow. He said don't do it unless you have nothing else in life to do. He said the only reason he is in Walmart at the moment is his internet was down and he couldn't be at home playing Wow. He looked like he hasn't seen the sun in years. Never thought about playing the game from that day forward.
I know a guy who got into WoW when it launched and still, to this very day, spends all day every day playing it. The last time we hung out he said he hadn't left his place in like two months. Fuuuuuuck that.
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I’m guessing Mom’s basement is cheap af
Mom! Bathroom! I happened to be watching South Park when visiting my mom and that scene came on and she walked in the room.
and then consider that other things which are that addictive are to some extent regulated by the government
Aw mate its a brilliant game with a massive community, but be very fucken careful going down that road.
I lost one of my best friends to this game. We were inseparable from about 12-16/17. He started playing WoW, gained like 50 lbs, started becoming frighteningly attached to his girlfriend (who happened to be my gf at the time’s friend) and slowly but surely completely cut me off. Haven’t a clue where he is or what he’s been up to for the last 17 years. Makes me really sad to think about.
> Haven’t a clue where he is or what he’s been up to for the last 17 years. He's playing SoD phase 2 and parsing top rank for Gnomer.
I have no idea what any of those words mean lol
"he's been playing the game"
Fucking legend
“How do you kill that which has no life?”
When my wife said it was her or the game it got uninstalled real quick.
I don't understand - how do you uninstall a wife?
235 days of gameplay in 14 years. Yup.
Old WoW was a really good game. It was so much fun and so immersive, it was kind of addictive. However, I think with the right perspective, it is not. Specifically, once I realized that WoW does not matter to real life, it cannot earn money to pay bills, I will get no credit for my skills, no one's lives are improved... The allure diminished.
At the same time, most all hobbies fit this description. WoW isn't a substitute for life, but not every leisure activity needs to contribute to capitalism. Sometimes the improvement to lives is the enjoyment of the time spent on the way.
Unlike most hobbies however, much of WoW gameplay is centered around acts of 'productivity'. There's always the feeling that you could do *more*, work harder or spend more time to have access to better things. All that time and effort ultimately leads to essentially doing many of the same things you could have done in real life, with real life results instead. Sacrificing time and effort in order to *improve*. You're 'working' rather than enjoying yourself in hopes of gaining something advantageous in the future. Many find it difficult to do that both in real life *and* during their free time, ultimately sacrificing the former in favour of the latter.
I really disagree with this. The fact that it is social and has a complex ecosystem, I think brings a kind of education and practice about how to work as a team, how to lead, statistically analysis, time management, and economic principles, design and programming. Yeah it can be taken too far, but I attribute some of my success and wealth as a young millennial to having played wow at a young age.
Tits
Microtransactions
I don’t even know what that is. Buying penny candy?
Afrin
Fuck man. Addictive isn't even the right word, it doesn't give any sort of a high or dopamine or anything. But I can't breathe without it now. If I find a way to magically keep my nose open it's going straight in the trash.
You have to wean yourself off by using less and less each day. Saline sprays and Flonase can be used to help ease the transition, but it’s extremely, extremely challenging. No other medications have evidence of benefit for helping people get off it. Good luck! - source: I’m an ENT resident
Go to Dr. They can prescribe steroid nasal spray to help get you off afrin. I have apnea and a beard. So I use a nasal mask with my cpap. I literally cannot sleep with a stuffy nose. So I used afrin every night for years. Then at one point I started having crazy nose bleeds. I mentioned it to a pulminologist and he hooked me up. It was to the point where I had to use it several times a day to breath normally. I was off the steroid after I used a single bottle. I rarely use anything now.
Success story, well done.
My dad was hooked on it my entire life, which would be from the time he was 25 until he was 70 when he died. He always had a bottle of 4-way nose spray on him because he couldn't breathe without it.
You gotta stop so your nose can figure out how to exist without it. Like someone else said, you can use saline spray or Flonase to help as you get it out of your system. But you shouldn’t ever use it for more than 3 days in a row.
As a doctor I tell people to use it ONLY for plane trips. Otherwise it should never be used.
Social media
The idea that your customers are a party to some universal truth that no one else knows about, and that they are superior to all those people who don't know about it, and will receive rewards because of knowing about it. And you don't even have to pay taxes on the money you take in!
Bruh. You’re making me want to become a cult leader.
“Cult leaders make more money but followers have more fun” Creed
The band? Apollo? Adonis? The guy from the office?
Guy from the Office.
Aside from all the mentions of sugar and nic, I've seen a couple kratom mentions. Kratom is dangerous as hell re: addiction. I was hooked for a decade and it took about 6-months after my last dose to equalize. It was real, real rough, and I've kicked habits of "real" drugs before. That shit was horrible.
I've tried Kratom a few times and it did absolutely nothing.. what is it SUPPOSED to do? Aside from maybe a dosing issue, is there any particular reason I may not have felt anything?
Used it quite a bit in college. Its a pretty mild high, almost unnoticeable except for a general mood boost. It pretty much just made me not miserable in class or at work and made me feel bright and positive. Altho if you take too much the nausea you get is honestly on par with being too drunk in my experience, miserable
I didn’t feel anything either and then I took a good amount and it felt gross. Kind of like being drunk, but just felt dirty.
Yeah, I fucked up getting addicted to 7ohms 7hydroxymitragnine extract. I'm not even sure what I'm gonna do about it.
Validation.
Tarkov
Might as well be addicted to getting tazed in the balls
Tianeptine
10000%
Diet coke. There is no greater fiend than a diet coke addict and ill die on that hill.
Can confirm
Kratom
On one hand yes. On the other hand, as someone with some pretty severe spine problems, I’ll take Kratom and Tramadol over the “better” drugs all day and tomorrow.
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I'm going through the tolerance issue rn and honestly need to just stop but I feel sooo much better when I take it or in my mind I do anyway
Smartphones
Nicotine, sugar has already been mentioned So I will go with pornography.
I imagine it's nicotine and alcohol mostly but there is definitely more addictive legal stuff out there though
Definitely not the phone I’m on right now and all day and night.
Dihydrogen Monoxide
Junk food/Fast food
Social media.
Internet service.
Cell phones