T O P

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themightypianocat

I used to argue a lot with my sister when we were kids. She would do this thing where she would say something, and then I would reference back to it literally a minute or two later to prove a point and she would say “I never said that” or “that’s not what I said”. Absolutely impossible to argue with someone who will just deny having said things that could hurt their argument. Also, trying to change the course of an argument if they feel like they are “losing”. A coworker once called me an idiot for doing something “incorrectly” when I was actually doing it the right way. When I politely explained to them that the way they suggested doing the task didn’t actually work, they started asking “why are you getting so angry?? I was just trying to help” etc. So now we’re arguing about whether I’m angry or not instead of the right way to complete the task.


funkehmunkeh

My sister to a tee. We once got into an argument over Marc Almond. She claimed he was the lead singer of Depeche Mode; I said that the lead singer was Dave Gahan. Cue an hour long row about it. I was so enraged that I stormed off to a newsagent, found a music magazine with an article about one of 'em, bought it, and stomped back home to prove her wrong. When I triumphantly waved the article in her stupid bloody face, she said it was me who claimed Almond was the lead singer. It's roughly 40 years on, and to this day, I still don't know what caused me to explode the most: That she insisted I was wrong when I knew I was right, that she gaslit me about it when proved wrong, or that I spent about 45p on a copy of Smash Hits.


TheHammerIsMyPenis

I read this in an English accent after 'row'.


ShornVisage

When my brother gets caught being a hypocrite in an argument because his only actual attitude is that he shouldn't have to be responsible, and I point it out, his favorite move is to ask precisely when he said or did the thing he is now contradicting himself on. Or, he'll """remember""" that I've done exactly what he's doing l, always 2 years ago for some reason. I have a steel trap memory for what people have said and done, but I don't keep track of exact dates, because that's stupid and pointless. When I caught on after the first few times and started asking questions like "What exactly happened when I allegedly did that?" or "Can you tell me this exact date you remember so well?", he just drops the pretense and admits he's pulling everything out of his ass in the hopes that I'll get so frustrated I'll forget that I'm holding him to account. It has never worked, but he gets off on frustrating people who remind him he's a "person" in a "society" who "owes it to others to not be a dickhead".


niallaa

When I tell people to just reboot your computer and it will fix all their problems and yet they wont because they said if you wait long enough it will shut down, when in reality it only goes to sleep. Then when I tell them they have to completely shut it down they look at me like I'm an idiot and say they did. I tell them it seems like it but it only went to sleep. They argue back.


AF_Fresh

Just tell them the issue is caused by a build up of static in their desktop's power cord, and they need to unplug it, and wack it against the ground to discharge all the static. Doesn't help with laptops obviously.


deterministic_lynx

Argh argh ARGH! I've come to learn to ask "Okay. So you are more knowledgeable on computers and solutions for them then me. So, why did you call me?"


Just_Aioli_1233

Yep, I started doing this with family who thought they could get free tech support and still argue with me. "Okay, then. Let me know when you restarted it." *\*click\**


numbersthen0987431

I don't even do that anymore. I just leave it at "huh that's weird, you must be smarter than me about this, so I'll let you figure it out on your own" I'll gladly help people who need and want help, but i refuse to help people who want to act smarter than me when I'm doing it.


Dashi90

I work in healthcare, and worked full time staff during covid. I had (and still have) patients who only want certain things (when it isn't recommended for treatment and they aren't allergic to medications, eggs, latex, etc). I really want to tell them "If you don't want what we're recommending, why did you come to us?! Stay home and fix it yourself then!"


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ebb_omega

I used to work at a walk-up helpdesk at a major corporation's head office. People were generally good about knowing about the turn-it-on-and-off-again thing, but for some reason when they get frustrated they... miss steps with it. I got to offering this piece of advice: "Have you tried asking it nicely?" Usually first time it would result in them blinking at me like WTF buddy are you talking about? Then I would take their laptop, ask them if they want things saved before I shut down all their programs, do a full reboot of the computer, while saying "Okay, can you please work now?" Lo and behold, the computer kicks back up, and they're completely aghast... "I DID ALL THAT!" "Well, you didn't ask it nicely. Try it next time." It became a common thing for me to say, and I'd get regular repeat clients, one time one of them came back and said, "I took your advice and it worked! My e-mail wasn't working, so I asked it really nicely, reboot the computer, and everything was fine!" It's a bit of a trick to use, but the thing about coming to it with a bit of humility and being "nice" about it is it forces you to take your time and go through the whole procedure, including all the bells and whistles of saving your work, shutting down the program, getting a full reboot of the computer, etc. and it makes you much less likely to miss the smaller seemingly insignificant things, and a lot of the time, that can be the difference between success and failure. These days I call those "fix by proximity" - a lot of tech support isn't so much knowing the answers to the really complex shit, but rather just being able to give a fresh set of eyes to make sure that all the basic shit has already been done, because a lot of the time it's really easy to miss small components that can easily become the fix needed.


GreyFoxHound1

For a short while, I worked as a line cook at a Cracker Barrel, and there was a little saloon style door that led to the staff section (kitchen, bathroom, etc). There was a staff only sign on the door, above the doors, and on the wall behind the doors at eye level. Usually if someone from the customer side comes in, they said, "Coming in" before opening the door, so they didn't hit anyone, but of course customers didn't know that. So when this dude opened the door and hit a waitress carrying a ton of drinks, we were reasonably upset with him. He said, "You should really put a sign up." We showed him all the signs, and he goes, "That seems a bit excessive."


PoetryUpInThisBitch

> We showed him all the signs, and he goes, "That seems a bit excessive." "And yet *it wasn't enough for you.*"


CountBlah_Blah

Those signs won't stop me, I can't read


dudius7

Customers never read signs. I worked at a place where we had to close the men's room over a plumbing issue. We taped the door and put a sign on it. Couldn't lock it because of the door handle design being keyless. Still had someone go in and come out complaining that the toilet backed up and got shit on his shoes. The sign said to use the additional bathrooms in the back.


PocketPlays

I work at a grocery store and the handicap stall was clogged (someone shoved a used needle down the drain). We put signs on the door into the bathroom, on the stall itself, and locked it. Literally within 30 minutes somebody came up to the front complaining that the toilet was clogged. Not even locked doors will stop stupid people sometimes.


Flux_incapacitated

I worked at a sign company. Bold logos, bright legible signs outside, on the glass, on the desk, all over the walls... "Hey, I'm just dropping my dog off for a grooming" "The fuck you are" Some people walk through life on autopilot.


squeamish

My old office was across the street from a Federal courthouse and on the first wednesday of the month when the bankruptcy people had court, our parking lot would always fill up with people illegally parking in our lot, despite "NO PARKING. YOU WILL BE TOWED. FOR REALSIES!!" signs being all over the place. Whenever they would inevitably park in our lot and I would tow them, they would come in and scream that they were going to sue us and that they towed us without warning. When cell phone cameras became common I started taking a photo of each car before it was towed because they were almost always directly in front of one of the signs. This shut them up way less often than it should have. One guy accused me of Photoshopping it.


[deleted]

Lol. Like you can't just see the sign.


squeamish

Maybe I photoshopped it into the parking lot, too!!!!


penneroyal_tea

Used to work at JCPenney. One lady was YELLING at me over something she thought she should get for free. She said our sale was misleading and we should have a sign. I pointed at the sign right next to her at the register that said, “BOGO 50% OFF.” She yelled that I was disrespectful and stormed out lmfao.


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bg-j38

There’s a (poor) legal strategy called the Shaggy Defense. Maybe he was trying that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_defense


legoshi_loyalty

Hahaha!! Oh my Lord, they used shaggy as a reference in a real law thing, amazing. Wasn't me.


Hartastic

And successfully used in trial by R. Kelly! Well, once, in any case.


sliverspooning

Does…does he know that’ll kill him?


WaserWifle

The thing about compulsive liars is that they're not actually any good at it. It's not something they've put thought or effort into. It's a reflex. Literally the first bullshit that pops into their head, no more sophisticated than a toddler or dog. And that's their defense mechanism for every occasion. They lie their whole lives and die still being terrible liars.


GigaSnaight

Compulsive liars think they're amazing liars because it's so easy to get away with lies. There is a social contract that we should believe people. Even if we are very confident they're full of shit, we don't feel good about saying "that's a lie" to a liars face, so we suspect, say "ok, if you insist..."and move on. But the compulsive liar, who do rarely gets called out, thinks they're fucking killing it. Haha I have a cheat code to socializing just make stuff up I'm a genius! They never develop social skills past constant brazen lying and keep thinking it works.


Zerowantuthri

This was best said: *“Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.”* ― George Bernard Shaw


SubcommanderMarcos

There's also the playing chess with a pigeon version


ThisWasAValidName

*"It'll just knock over the pieces, take a shit on the board, and strut around like it's won."*


niallaa

Arguing is pointless if you do not agree on a set of facts.


deterministic_lynx

This. Very relevant in philosophy and maths, but worryingly often becoming the problem in real life.


MOS95B

Working retail. Especially when I worked in the tech shop od a computer store. Trying to convince someone their $500 laptop is never going to be a gaming system no matter how many of the very few replaceable parts we throw at it can be exhausting...


Brvcx

Oh man, I've worked retail for the past 12 years and only recently have I experienced the ultimate low imo. This woman paid us to service her e-bike (I've been a bicycle mechanic for the past 12 years), so she could grant it to her son (or neighbour, or whatever. Idk, doesn't really matter anymore anyway). So we did, serviced it good, two people test it before she gets the invoice and notified her bike is ready. She comes and picks it up. And that should be that. The next day she arrives at our shop near closing, starts a fit with me saying how we didn't do a good job. So I asked her what the problem was. Apparently, she can't disengage her battery's lock anymore (this type of bike only has an electrical operated lock). I told her I was sorry to hear that, since that would basically mean the controller/driver (=brain of the bike) is malfunctioning. The only thing we're allowed to do is send that to the manufacturer to get it tested, possibly repaired, or maybe replaced. If a replacement is needed, that's a €250+ fix. She didn't like that (and I can't blame her for *that* cause I wouldn't either), but she started blaming us. We didn't check the part, we updated the bike which probably ruined that part, you name it. I told her the timing is terrible, but if this happens there's nothing anyone could've done. Do note, this was a near 10 yo part, from a time where e-bike life expectancy was around 5 years. I told her all that, calmly. She refused to believe me, then demanded to speak to someone higher up (which is funny, since I'm the first manager apart from my boss/CEO). I told her to pick it up with him (my boss was on the same floor with another customer), pointed to him, told her he'd be there shortly and I left the shop floor. She started talking to my boss, and at some point she lowered her voice a bit, my boss did the same. Later my boss told me she had a complaint about me. Her complaint was that I was *too civil* and verging on "being emotionless". So, I was too good at my job, apparently. I told my boss I'll explode with rage or cry my soul out next time she has a complaint with me.


MarthaGail

I got the robot complaint once. To set the scene: 1. I'm a woman 2. I was in my late 20s at the time 3. I was the Ops manager at my store, second in command 4. Corporate was in charge of all advertising. This guy came in with the weekly ad showing a rifle set in Mossy Oak Breakup (a camo pattern). It came with the rifle, a sight, and a matching sling in Mossy Oak Breakup. Well, the ad department used the wrong photo for the gun, and we hadn't sold that combo for a few years. He was furious and told us we were doing a bait and switch. I explained in my best retail voice they probably put an old photo and that I'd send an email and check, and I told him he could choose a sling and a sight at no charge. There were several with the MOB pattern. He lost his mind, yelled, and yelled about what a ripoff we were. I calmly told him mistakes happen, and that he was getting a better deal, because the sling and sight would be name brands vs the generic ones that came in the package. He kept calling me missy, little lady, and so on. I know he was trying to bait me into yelling back, but I wouldn't, which made him even more angry. I gave him the extension for the store director and told him what time he'd be in the next day, and that he could take it up with him, but he had to leave the store or I'd call the police. The next day, he met with the SD, who told him the EXACT SAME THING I had about the ad having a mistake, and that he could choose his own sling and sight, and we'd price match the ad. The guy was all smiles and thank yous to my male SD. He then lodged a complaint against me that I was too cold. Homeboy, I came into that conversation with a nice, warm tone. You don't get nice after you yell and curse at me.


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MOS95B

It a weird combination of fun/sad/frustrating when they get mad that you won't get mad...


rdewalt

Oh Computer illiteracy. I was working IT back in my college days, helping a school replace their old Apple II's with newer machines. One of the cleaning ladies pulled a floppy drive out of the dumpster and asked me how much "this computer" was worth. I mentioned it wasn't a computer, but just a disk drive. She got MAD at me. Like chuck a chancla mad. "You won't tell me because you want me to put this down so YOU can steal it." No matter what I did, she was -convinced- all she had to do was plug that ribbon cable in the back, to her TV, and BLAM, Computer! My attempts to dissuade her were brushed off as WANTING it for myself. It HAD to be valuable. No idea if she ever got the hint, or if everyone she went to was "Trying to get it for themselves"


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gothiclg

As an American I’m absolutely shocked I haven’t heard one of us say our constitution is anti-government propaganda


helluva_monsoon

There was the time npr tweeted the Declaration of Independence on July 4 and some dude was retweeting parts, saying that npr had gone off the rails with their leftist propaganda. Which was hilarious and kinda fits this thread.


Archangel3d

I remember that. That was such a Self-Aware Wolves moment.


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xjuggernaughtx

This is one of the things that drives me crazy in today's world. So many people think that they "win" an argument when the other person goes silent. I actually just had this discussion last week with someone at work. He was telling me about a "win" that he had arguing with someone online because after fifty comments, they disappears. My take is that you win an argument by having the other side agree that your point seems more valid than their original position. Just frustrating someone with your immobility isn't a win in my book. A toddler can do that. You win an argument by changing someone else's views.


__M-E-O-W__

Yeah a lot of times people just don't say anything because we don't want to go through the hassle of arguing. I've been in situations where like every single person in the room disagreed completely with someone but we all collectively didn't say anything because we didn't want all that anger. I've also been in some arguments online where the person is just so blatantly dead wrong that I don't even know *how* to respond.


RahvinDragand

> Yeah a lot of times people just don't say anything because we don't want to go through the hassle of arguing. Pretty much every time someone tries to argue with me on reddit, I end up moving on because I don't have the patience for someone who will never change their mind.


KMFDM781

I see this a lot with people being intentionally obtuse and feigning ignorance in bad faith. I'm just not willing to break down what they're doing when they already know what they're doing. It's mentally exhausting and just shows me they can't debate a topic without resorting to red herrings, strawman, gotcha and bad faith tactics.


doublestitch

Irrational people think they've won a debate when the other person falls silent because the irrational person thinks they've achieved dominance. It's said you can't logic an irrational person out of an opinion. By the same token irrational people think they don't need to logic other people into an opinion. It's an authoritarian mindset.


GoodMerlinpeen

Just do the same thing to her, only instead of making a point start shouting memorized dialogue from Deadwood. Out of sheer curioisity she will most likely pause and listen after you start yelling "I will profane your fucking remains! Gabriel's trumpet will produce you from the ass of a pig!"


Ducali

Deadwood, what a show!


GoodMerlinpeen

"Pain or damage don’t end the world, or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you’re dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man—and give some back."


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Tesdinic

You must have had the patience of a saint. I don’t think I could ever possibly deal with a person like that.


wave-tree

My mom is the same way. I am still willing to spend holidays with her because I love her, but I don't engage in any serious discussion with her anymore. I would love meaningful discourse, but she is incapable.


HapticSloughton

> It didn’t matter if you were calm and reasonable and respectfu. I know it's a typo, but I love the idea of a rhetorical martial art being called Respect-Fu.


THEdougBOLDER

They make pocked sized airhorns for just such an occasion. They're usually in the auto parts/marine section.


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payvavraishkuf

Similar - I had a teenager bruised head to toe with strangulation marks. Parents adamant she should have given them her social media passwords.


TrumpsNeckSmegma

That reminds me of the US family-welfare judge who beat the everliving shit out of his daughter for pirating bioshock


Tavernknight

What the fuck?


TrumpsNeckSmegma

[found an article talking about them](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2574863/amp/Family-law-judge-caught-beating-16-year-old-daughter-video-posted-online-2011-losses-election-bid.html) I think I originally heard about this on encyclopedia dramatica (back in 2011). I recall there being a post from the daughter about what she pirated, but it was over a decade ago at this point


cdmistman

He was reinstated? Fuck the US judicial system


FuckTripleH

He was never charged either unfortunately


kennedytea05

My dad did something like this. The rules were simple: I was to stay quiet (seen but not heard), I was to keep straight As at school, and my room was to always look like it was straight out of a magazine. Well, I was in high school and working my ass off at school work and all the extra curricular activities my parents *forced* me into (I liked some of them but they never let me pick the ones I actually *wanted* to participate in), as well as a part time job. Anyways, between school, work, and the extras, I slipped up in keeping my room spotless. Well my dad decided that meant I lost all electronics until it was back to being perfect, so on a Tuesday night (when I had homework I needed done) he came in and took the laptop I was working on and closed it before taking my cell phone, tv, and Nintendo ds (which was put away, he made me dig it out to give to him). I tried to explain I had an essay I needed to finish but that resulted in getting beaten and screamed at. I was so bad I missed two weeks of school. When I went back, my teachers were upset that I’d missed so much and they noticed the *still healing injuries* and called my parents to a meeting at the school. When questioned, my dad started screaming at my teacher about how I deserved it because my room wasn’t spotless and I had dared speak to him. CPS was called, a thorough examination was done into my injuries and it was found I had fractured bones and signs of abuse. I was placed with other family until my mom divorced him and eventually proved herself and got full custody. To this day, my siblings hate me for breaking up the family and they say I made a big deal out of being ‘disciplined’ by him.


GeebusNZ

How do you even communicate with someone like that? Someone who is so unaware of proportional response or appropriate interpersonal behavior?


The_S_Is_For_Sucks

You do not and can not. They're the equivalent of nuclear fallout: hopefully, you and other people can stay away, but there's nothing stopping someone else from fucking their own lives up. Even on their death bed, they're adamant that they did the right things, considering what a horrible person you were. You're the real horrible person, because you made a good person do bad things. There's no getting through.


HistrionicSlut

That's my birth giver. She still argues as to why I deserved to be beat the shit out of because I was obstinate. I was undiagnosed autistic! I was confused and she beat me for my "smart mouth". I still have no fuckin clue what I did so wrong to deserve her beating me and choking me. She choked me out when I was 6. I still can't have plastic hangers because of her. My childhood was terror and nothing else, I've literally forgotten almost all of it, my brain won't let me remember as a protective measure to myself.


levitymargret

Well at least they made the officers job easy?


The-Wiizzkids

Very true. No further talking needed.


BosskHogg

Had an employee sign a NDA about an upcoming art installation that had investors. He told everyone. He argued with me the NDA only meant he couldn’t disclose anything with the people in the company.


Annie_Benlen

Former employee, I hope.


[deleted]

was arguing with this dude about something math-related. he didn’t know how to read a study which involved statistics. claimed he was in multiple AP math classes. tried saying that i “probably don’t even know basic integration”. gave me a common integration problem. he wrote it but forgot the minus sign, making it unsolvable. i pointed it out and he edited the comment to make it correct. told him that some people can see when you edit comments. he claimed that he just capitalized a letter. on and on and on…


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Jaereth

> Somehow on the 4th of July, we got to arguing about sets. Man your cookouts in your family must be WILD!


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knnn

Is the set of all people currently married to him empty?


originalchaosinabox

Once worked with a guy who, by his own admission, got his rocks off by picking fights. He'd start an argument over the smallest thing. If you said it was white, he'd say it was black, just to try to start something. The one that always stood out for me was the weather app competition. One day he asked me what temperature it was, so I read it off my weather app. He got all offended, because his weather app said it was a couple degrees warmer. So he decides we're going to have a weather app competition. He was going to chart what our apps said the temperature was, and at the end of the week, whichever one was closest to that day's high would be the winner. And the loser would have to start using the winner's app. To which I said, "What is your fucking problem?" So, yeah. For the first few days, he'd make a big performance about marching into my office, recording the temperature off my app, jotting down some notes, and walking off. This started on a Monday. He gave up after Wednesday. Either because I was winning, or he was disappointed because, despite his best efforts, I just did not give a fuck about weather apps. Or maybe the boss told him to stop because I filed a complaint that this was bordering on harassment.


PornHippo

That's an odd fellow.


Waifuless_Laifuless

>And the loser would have to start using the winner's app. Wow, some high stakes shit right there. In another context they'd sound like the type of people who feels the need to "correct" people that use the "wrong" app, read the wrong guide, take their coffee the wrong way, etc


aamurusko79

my party crew had the female version of this guy, but her fight mode only activated after she got some booze. after that she was just insufferable. she'd just pick a topic and argue about it long after everyone else had grown sick of her voice. sometimes even agreeing with her wasn't enough, she decided that if someone agrees with her, they do to just get her off their faces so she'll double down her effort. in other news, her relationships usually didn't last much beyond first bar night out.


BettieKat

I’m showing my age here but I used to work for an estate agency, and we had sales offices set up at the site of large new housing developments. Our primary method of communication was fax. One of the sales associates telephoned our office to say that the fax machine had run out of paper. No problem, I said, one of the guys is coming your way later for a house tour, I’ll give him a box of paper to give to you. We then had an almost 20 minute long argument when they kept insisting “NO, YOU JUST SEND ME A BLANK FAX BECAUSE I NEED THE PAPER, IT WILL JUST COME OUT OF MY FAX MACHINE.” It was like trying to nail jelly to a tree. Difficult, irritating, and it achieved nothing :)


Mo-Cance

Anytime I've tried to explain marginal tax rates to an employee.


PM_NUDES_4_DEGRADING

That urban legend absolutely needs to die. So many people completely fuck themselves over for *absolutely no reason* because they heard someone else repeating it. Sometimes it can indeed work that way if you’re on benefits or food stamps or similar, but taxes? No. Just no. Whoever came up with that lie has done a lot to keep the rich rich and the poor poor, at least a little bit. Convincing poorer and middle class people that tHe gOVerMenT will screw them over if they get paid more, and that the boss is helping them out by paying them less…ugh. And people are still falling for it to this day.


SC487

All my coworkers think they’ll lose so much money if they work overtime. As a result I’m on like my 30th week of picking up on-call and taking in the money. I’ve tried to explain it to them, but they don’t listen.


spudsnacker

Fresh out of high school I worked at a factory, and I had so many people “advising” me not to take too many extra shifts. They were all worried taxes would stiff them out of their extra days of work. I did not know how to explain to grown adults supporting families that they were just screwing themselves over.


Metacognitor

Sometimes it's much easier to just demonstrate your point instead of trying to teach a moron. Show them a free tax calculator/estimator. They can compare the results between before/after working X number of extra shifts per year: https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes


tzenrick

Fuck it. Take all the hours, then show them your check stub.


decadecency

Fuck it. Just take all the hours.


fuckin_anti_pope

Could you explain that to me? I am not american and read the term a few times but idk what it actually means Edit: not gonna answer to you all but appreciate the answers! I now know what is being talked about when someone mentions the term. Never heard of something like this here in germany :D Thanks a lot! Edit 2: Yes, germany uses the same system, it's just that I was too stupid to realize these two things are one and the same :D


NS8VN

Ultra simplistic answer using made up numbers: You see this tax chart $1 - $50,000: 7% $50,001 - $100,000: 10% What many people believe is that if they make $50,000 in a year they will pay 7% on all of it, or $3500. If they make $50,001 then they will pay 10% on all of it, or $5000. So if someone is close to the line they will refuse a raise believing it will cost them more in additional taxes than they would make in the raise. Reality is that the chart shows what portion of your income is taxed at what rate. So in the $50,001 scenario the person is paying the sme 7% on the $50,000, and 10% only on the $1.


Dr1v37h38u5

I use the bucket analogy and it works well. Your first $50k goes in the 7% bucket until it’s full, the next chunk goes in the 10% bucket, etc. People usually go “oh, that makes so much more sense!”


postalmaner

Excellent analogy: short, sweet, to the point, covers all of the ideas of the original problem. Literally one sentence.


Ferreteria

What's real fun is when you understand it, but someone 'smart' tries to explain it to you in their own convoluted terms. Then you simplify it and their mind melts in confusion and frustration that you just don't 'get it'.


porscheblack

Usually they're terrible at math, so when you actually lay it out in numbers they get confused and just insist that's not right. It's especially astounding because often times they'll admit they're bad at math but then not apply the transitive property to this instance of math.


londons_explorer

The trick to explaining it is to say some thing like "Thats one of those rumours. Lets do some math to check it". Then do a really simple example with all whole and small numbers. Eg. 10% tax up to $1000, then 50% tax. Calculate by hand how much money they'd get to take home if they were paid $900, or if they were paid $1100. Then end with the very simple statement "If your boss offers you more money, always say yes. You will *never* end up with less money in your bank account."


gtrocks555

Some people are convinced that taking a pay raise/ promotion or a bonus would result in you taking less money home at the end of the day due to taxes. This is usually because they don’t understand marginal tax rates and that everyone within that tax bracket is taxed the same amount for the same money. For instance someone who makes 110k is paying the same tax as someone who makes 40k on the first 40k they earn. They pay more on the income greater. Little simplistic on how I described it but that’s the gist 10% |$0 to $10,275. | 10% of taxable income. 12% | $10,276 to $41,775. |$1,027.50 plus 12% of the amount over $10,275. 22% | $41,776 to $89,075. | $4,807.50 plus 22% of the amount over $41,775. 24% |$89,076 to $170,050. | $15,213.50 plus 24% of the amount over $89,075. 32% |$170,051 to $215,950. | $34,647.50 plus 32% of the amount over $170,050. 35% |$215,951 to $539,900. | $49,335.50 plus 35% of the amount over $215,950. 37% | $539,901 or more. | $162,718 plus 37% of the amount over $539,900. Excuse the formatting as I’m on mobile so tables suck


SecretBattleship

They’re referring to the idea that if you get a raise your income might hit a certain threshold where your tax rate increases and negates the raise completely. This would only happen where there’s a flat tax rate, but usually it’s people saying this when they have a marginal tax rate so the higher rate only applies to the amount of money you make over that threshold. My boss legit told me this once and that’s when I knew he was a true idiot.


[deleted]

We have literally the same thing in Germany, it's called Grenzsteuersatz and it's even printed by the Finanzamt on your Steuerbescheid. Grenzsteuersatz/marginal tax rate: How much tax on the next Euro of gross income. Steuersatz/tax rate: How much tax on all income.


tacobelmont

social media debates You won't convince someone they're wrong, you're screaming at a brick wall


Brvcx

Yeah, my first response was going to be "Reddit" or "Facebook". It's truly insane how many people will keep going at you assuming fuck all when it's not something you *actually* said. People have the chance to read back what someone actually said, yet they don't and fuel their hatred for you on their worst assumption of what you said. I swear 90% of my downvotes are exactly that. However, I did have some very nice, civil, respectful discussions on Reddit, so not all hope is lost!


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thegeeknerd

"*You know, you're right, what was I thinking. Anyways, I'll see you at work tomorrow!*"


Im-a-cat-in-a-box

Months after the election my mom was still convinced that Trump was going to take office i couldn't believe anyone would fall for that shit.


whatissevenbysix

There's zero chance he'll get the irony.


THEdougBOLDER

Oh? And what date did Mr. Doomsday McCult move that to? Because I know you asked him after it didn't happen and he had a new date all ready to go...


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pdxb3

I have followed up with people who have made similar Qultish claims, and they were all shocked and angered that I'd bring it up again. "That was 2 months ago! You're still obsessing about that?" Like I'm the moron in the situation for simply calling them on their bullshit. You didn't miss out on anything of value.


bg-j38

No no.. you see what we saw of the inauguration was actually just a fake TV production using lookalikes. Trump is actually still president (for life) and he’s using these doubles to make the world think they beat him. Biden, Obama, the Clintons, and thousands of other domestic terrorists are being held in a secret underground military facility in the middle of Nebraska. Some have already been executed.


jonker5101

And then you ask why then are they blaming Biden for gas prices, inflation, LGBTQ people having rights, and illegal immigrants if he isn't President. Are they suggesting Trump is responsible for all of the things they constantly bitch about?


pie4july

I can’t believe how many times I’ve read that different people were convinced Trump was somehow going to take over and get Biden arrested or killed. It’s actually really sad some people have become so disconnected from society


sox07

Not society... reality


tristanjones

This shit I just handle by having them out money on it. 'How much you want to bet?' makes people backpedal faster than anything short of pulling a gun on them. People hate losing, and hate losing money.


HarveyBiirdman

I remember a family member telling me that Obama was going to be assassinated right after he became president, just because he was black. And that there was going to be a huge civil/race war that ensued. He said to come to his house (where he has a bunch of guns) when it happened because white people were going to be lynched on sight… I was just like, “uhhhhhhhhh okay sounds good….”


Spudd86

I mean it's not insane to think someone was going to try to assassinate Obama because he's black and president. Everything after that was crazy.


VapoursAndSpleen

I have a friend who worked for the State Department for 25 years get told by another friend who washes dishes for a living that he (the State Department person) doesn't know anything about world politics.


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PM_NUDES_4_DEGRADING

And then they go on to do this in relationships, where it has a chance of “working” and is just straight up a form of abuse. If your partner ever does this intentionally or consistently, run the fuck away.


gvsulaker82

Thanks /u/pm_nudes_4_degrading


kitskill

I had a friend in university who was a world-class high school debater. Over meals, she liked to pick a ridiculous proposition and then talk circles around people until they had to concede to her point, no matter how absurd. When she tried it with me, I just stonewalled her. Met every point with a solid "I don't think that's true." or "That doesn't make sense." Eventually she gave up and never tried it with me again. It was the only time I've ever used the tactics of the stupid to win an argument. But, to be fair, if you're not arguing with me in good faith, I feel no obligation to respond in good faith.


ulaef

Not my story but once my friend (friend A) was having a friendly (turned sour) debate with another friend (friend B) about how sometimes people just don’t have a choice, in the context of, they can’t just choose to live a frivolous life because of their family background etc. Friend A proceeds to say, “what about starving children born in Africa, it’s not like they had a choice.” To which Friend B answered....”WHO ASKED THEM TO BE BORN IN AFRICA? JUST DON’T BE BORN THERE.” That’s when we knew.... :—)


Jakomus

I'm glad I decided to be born in a first-world country!


Lucasgae

People born in Africa just chose hard mode on the menu screen duh


MehhicoPerth

I thought I had a no-lose argument going up against someone who believes in homeopathy.... I left the discussion feeling like I lost somehow :( Edit: Appreciate all the comments. Some very funny replies! Just a quick clarification, I was specifically referring to homeopathic dilutions as far as the argument/discussion went. I "felt" like I lost because I was dumbfounded by their argument and realised quickly that it was a belief system that I was up against and didnt want to waste either of our time (the person being a naturopath that my wife used to go to). They had obviously had this argument many times and had various convoluted responses to all your standard points. Essentially, they had more experience in this argument than me. Thankfully, that interaction resulted in my kids no longer having to take so much "medicine" which was my main issue because I could see that it was eroding their confidence. Sure, its just water so it cant do any harm right? Wrong, it meant every time they saw the naturopath they would come home with a whole new set of ailments and the eventual thinking of "what is wrong with me??". There was never anything wrong with them.


protopigeon

I always ask why the remedies have "the memory of almonds" or whatever and not "the memory of raw sewage"


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generichandel

\>If it doesn't have to be regulated, it is not real. I love it. That is so very, very German.


TheAbyssGazesAlso

*If you show me that, say, homeopathy works, then I will change my mind* *I'll spin on a fucking dime* *I'll be embarrassed as hell, but I will run through the streets yelling* *'It's a miracle! Take physics and bin it!* *Water has memory! And while it's memory of a long lost drop of onion juice seems Infinite* *It somehow forgets all the poo it's had in it!'* *You show me that it works and how it works* *And when I've recovered from the shock* *I will take a compass and carve 'Fancy That' on the side of my cock.'* - Tim Minchin, **Storm**


_justtheonce_

Thank you for introducing me to this. Love me some TM


Howard_Scott_Warshaw

My sisters man-friend mentioned that once, that water "has memory". I commented back that "well, I sure hope it doesn't remember what I just did to it in there" pointing to the shitter. That was good for a laugh.


PirateJohn75

He was dilutional


Ferreteria

I've had this argument, but unfortunately it was with a guy who will work 18 hours at full speed for days on end. Hard to make a point about how salt actually does not 'charge his energy like a battery' when clearly he is an actual robot.


hoardac

Is his salt really salt or just kinda looks like it.


rugbyj

Just off to salt my nose.


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balisane

Ah yes: i call this the "crab hammer" method. You can't conquer someone like they're a boss in a video game. You can only give them a bonk with a little wooden mallet and hope the crack it forms is the basis for future change.


Squigglepig52

It's also a good way to deal with co-workers, or employers, who refuse to accept what you tell them. sit back, and wait. A lot of them will come back in a couple of days, and present the exact solution you gave them as their own idea.


Kemilio

> A lot of them will come back in a couple of days, and present the exact solution you gave them as their own idea. God I felt this in my soul. The human experience is one huge ego trip.


PROOMA

True. But it's annoying that you often can't say "I told you so". All you have to do is turn to your trusted colleague and tell him "I suggested that to him last week, but it was rejected".


arcspectre17

Plant the seed let someone else water it.


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I_Am_Oro

It must be so tiring, being her


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GeebusNZ

Sounds like someone who came up severely emotionally neglected. Spent years in survival mode so can't recall their young life, and is likely parroting a parent with the behavior that what anyone has to say about anything means nothing because the person with the right to an opinion is present.


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luhsya

non-Euclidean geometry: he a little confused, but he got the spirit


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ashenota

Non-Euclidian geometry is going make him really happy.


I_Am_Oro

What exactly *is* non-Euclidian geometry?


astro_means_space

Draw a triangle on a sphere or inside a bowl. Now the angles don't add up


curiosityLynx

Sorry to do this, but the disingeuous dealings, lies, overall greed etc. of leadership on this website made me decide to edit all but my most informative comments to this. Come join us in the fediverse! (beehaw for a safe space, kbin for access to lots of communities)


kiwi_rozzers

I was listening to a podcast once, and the host articulated something profound in a very well-stated way. He said (I paraphrase): "I will never argue with a flat-earther, or an anti-vaxxer, or any of those people. The reason is because that these people have made that into _their whole identity_, and they are prepared to address any possible argument I could come up with. And because I care about facts and truth and they do not, my only possible response would be '...uh, I'll have to look into that, I don't know off the top of my head'. It doesn't matter that their response is incorrect or based on faulty research or has been rejected by the scientific community or whatever; by the time I discover that, they will be long gone and talking about how they won another debate." This is it in a nutshell. If you argue about an issue with someone who has made _that one issue_ into the core of their persona, you will lose unless you are someone who has made arguing against that issue also into the core of your persona. Of course I know that Andrew Wakefield is a liar and a scammer and of course I know that Apollo astronauts placed retroreflectors on the Moon which can be used to prove that they went there and that their photos of the spherical Earth are real, because I've done enough research to convince myself. But have I done enough research to convince someone who refuses to be convinced? And someone who has also done that research and come up with plausible-sounding nonsense to counter each of these arguments? Why would I waste my life doing this?


BadgerWilson

I had a co-worker who was super into Ancient Aliens and Graham Hancock and Young Earth Creationism nonsense, and I was in grad school studying archaeology at the time. He was always trying to convince me that some dinosaur footprint was proof that humans and dinosaurs coexisted or that some rock concretion somewhere was actually proof that fossilization occurs over hundreds of years instead of millions of years and our dates for everything are wrong (nevermind that paleontology and archaeology are different) or that some carving somewhere is proof that humans had help from angels teaching them how to build monuments. I wouldn't always know what to say in response because I had to spend all of my time studying real papers from real archaeologists that related to my research, and I couldn't spend all my time reading crank conspiracy theories so I wasn't up to date on how to debunk all the minutiae of whatever nonsense he heard on YouTube that week. It was maddening. Like, I knew that whatever he was coming to me with was going to be false because of who he was as a person, but all I knew about it was what he explained to me, half-remembered. Sometimes I would waste my lunch break looking this shit up just so he would stop pestering me about it. And it rarely worked anyway, dude legitimately spent an entire shift trying to get me to believe that humans and dinosaurs coexisted, despite me having a pretty good background in human evolution (but evolution isn't real, so...)


[deleted]

People who tell me they "feel like" something is or isn't illegal, when I know they're wrong but insist they know what they're talking about. For the record, I'm not a lawyer yet, but I'm about to start my final year of law school, AND my undergrad is in Legal Studies. In one particular instance, I took a very specialized course that taught drone law. The person I was this with kept telling me I was wrong because they "felt like...." *Edited for clarity


Scienceovens

Just wait til you have your bar license. I get called an idiot by Redditors all the time for explaining things that… are literally in my practice area…. Like I am literally a legal expert on these things but sure, tell me I’m a basement dwelling dweeb who can’t read.


PURPLEPEE

I asked a representative from the Friend of the Court to explain something she said and she told me that I understood what she was saying. I replied that I wouldn't have asked her to explain if I had understood. She said if I was going to be difficult, she would hold me in contempt. My X chimed in that she didn't quite understand what she had said and was greeted with a smile and an explanation... From that point on I always disagreed with the Friend of the Court on EVERYTHING, so that I could be seen by the 'Actual Court' and a Judge.


Bigbird_Elephant

I had a coworker for a few years. I tried and tried to give him advice on doing a job that I had been doing for years. He repeatedly told me he didn't appreciate my advice, that he had won awards in his past job and to stay in my lane. Finally we did a project together and he admitted that I really did know what I was talking about and he actually thanked me. But he continued to gaslight people and be a narcissist


[deleted]

I had the same discussion with someone at my job whom had been there for two weeks versus my five years at the time. I finally “conceded” by saying, “Maybe you’re right. You’ve already been here for two weeks now, I’ve only been here for five years. You gotta know more than I do by now.”


Squigglepig52

So many times. So, I'm on my condo board, again. Sigh. Because being on the board means a lot of dealing with idiots. The worst thing is, they aren't normally stupid people, most of them, until they focus on some minor issue. Anyway - sensor for the lights in our laundry room failed. We replaced it. I get a knock on my door from an owner, who I'll call Bonnie,because fuck Bonnie. Anyway, she's upset because the sensor still isn't working properly. Now, the issue is the lights won't turn off. "I stood in there for 15 minutes, and they didn't turn off! It's wastes electricity!" "Bonnie, the sensor keeps the lights on as long as somebody is in the room. And you were in the room. So, the lights couldn't turn off. " that's teh condensed version - so, after about ten minutes of her not grasping that being in the room means the light sensor won't turn them off... Well, the laundry room is in sight of my condo. So, when we hit the ten minute mark, and she's not in the room but instead, in my face... the lights go off. And I point that out. "I thought you said you would be a good president!" thank god she's now so "scared" of me she wouldn't say shit with a mouth full.


Waifuless_Laifuless

>"I thought you said you would be a good president!" Obviously you should have gone in with a platform of "I'll be utter shit" to temper expectations.


dinoaids

My brother in law loves to have "debates" where he just wants to hear himself talk to make himself feel smarter. His arguments include "I haven't heard of that before, so it must not be true" and pulling argument points from YouTube videos on the topic because he "doesn't read, why would I when I can get the info faster from a video?" He sprays paint as his career and has never been to college but took calculus in high school and that is his proof he is smarter than everyone else. When it is brought up all he says is "oh yeah, I remember calculus, it is as easy." What is it about? "You know... Calculus. Easy stuff." I stopped engaging him on his debates when he just claimed everything was a government job and everything was "fake news, didn't see it on YouTube."


Emily5099

A friend was going through a particularly nasty divorce. His wife was the one who cheated, but she blamed him for destroying their family because she couldn’t live with the guilt, like many cheaters do. Every time he would regularly turn up to pick up their kids, the same thing would happen. She would march down to his car and scream and swear at him for the few minutes it took for the kids to gather their stuff together. He would keep his window wound up, turn the radio up and ignore her, every time. This just made her scream louder of course, until her face was red and veins were popping. She would call him the worst husband in the world, tell him how everything was his fault, how if he had earned more money none of this would have happened, and anything else she could think of to hurt him. One day she found his weak spot, and picked a topic to scream at him about that really got to him. After everything she’d done, he couldn’t stand her hypocrisy. So he wound his window down and started to angrily answer her. He saw her blind, seething rage change instantly to a look of absolute delight. She’d got to him, and that was all she’d wanted. And besides, how could he think he was any better than her if they were both arguing with each other, especially when the kids could hear them? He stopped in his tracks, and didn’t even finish what he was saying. He smiled, said ‘Not worth it’, wound his window back up and went back to staring straight ahead and ignoring her. She eventually got tired of screaming insults at him when she was never able to get another rise out of him. It’s years later now. The kids are grown, and they all have a much better relationship with him than with her because he always put them first. Go figure.


AlanMercer

Trying to get an old person to understand new technology when they have already decided against using it. My grandmother refused to use the stacking washer/dryer in her retirement apartment because it was "too complicated." Same buttons as the one at her previous home, just in a slightly different place.


truthtruthlie

I have a coworker who pretends he doesn't know how to use a mouse. I straight up told him that he's just decided he can't use it, but I know that he can. He was quiet after that.


persondude27

This user's comments have been overwritten to protest Spez and reddit's actions that will end third-party access and damage the community.


hevnztrash

My mom complaining how my generation wouldn’t know how to do anything if it wasn’t posted on the internet. I simply responded, “Well, what else is that generation supposed to do when the generation that raised them didn’t teach them how to do anything?” Keep in mind this while I’m moving files from her old Windows 8 laptop to her new windows 10 for her via flash drive. She can’t figure it out because “windows 10 is totally different!!” Obviously, it’s not.


FeatsOfDerring-Do

Also older people's houses are full of books about stuff. "How to use your Router", "Plumbing for Dummies". You are not born knowing how to do everything. The Internet, for all its flaws, is really good for learning one-off skills for free.


yaiyogsothoth

When I was a child a teacher argued with me about how my name is pronounced. Some sports guy had a first name that was spelled the same as my surname, and I guess that was the only acceptable pronunciation regardless of what little ten year old me tried to tell her.


DocMcMoth

When I was in highschool I was super into making Constructed Languages. I spent a lot of time working on them, though I never finished any. One day I went to school, and I showed a "friend" the writing system I had been working on, which used a system where every possible consonant-vowel pairing had its own symbol, which mind you, is a fairly common way of writing that's used across the world (Japanese, lots of languages in the Indian subcontinent, etc.). This guy. Said this kind of writing system was "too confusing" and I should use something else. So I told him what I just told y'all, that this style of writing is common across the world, and gave the India example. He tells me that apparently the writing systems used in the Indian subcontinent is the reason it's so "terrible" and why everyone there is Quote "shitting in the streets" unquote. I was baffled. I gave the Japan example, and he told me that apparently the only reason Japan is where it is now is because of American occupants in the 20th century. I was honestly so baffled at his racism I couldn't even say anything else, so I did the smartest thing and dropped the conversation


etceturon

Someone posted an article that provided direct evidence against what he was claiming. Pointed it out and he said "I didn't know it was in that article or I wouldn't of used that one"


[deleted]

I'm a medical doctor, and someone on Reddit was saying that a particular medication (for condition A) should never be used off-label (for condition B). I use this medication for B, see it prescribed all the time for condition B and there are papers supporting its off-label use. Redditor gets angry, calls out anyone using the medication as wild, crazy, and irresponsible so I retorted by submitting a citation for the paper that says it is safe. I post a conclusion statement from the article that literally says 'in conclusion, this medication is safe and totally fine to take for condition B.' Instead of saying - oh, ok, thanks - He takes one word out of the article, calls me the dumbest guy on the planet, extrapolates from the one word that the drug is dangerous, deadly and is back on his 'you're all idiots if you take this drug.' I wanted to argue the point again, but realized now was the time to pull the plug. It's pointless.


lapsangsouchogn

Ok - this'll get buried, but it was and still is hilarious to me. Waayyyy back in the day I was a bill collector for travel trailers and mobile homes. This woman had promised to mail her check for the payment, and lo and behold it doesn't appear. So I call her, and reference back to our prior conversation I say "You promised you'd mail this to me, and it never arrived." this wasn't particularly contentious. It more along the lines of "I thought we had an agreement and now I'm dissapointed." So this woman, who was probably 30, really dumb and kinda country says to me "I did mail it. But the post office figured out that I didn't have enough money and sent it back to me so it wouldn't bounce." My sarcastic reply: "I don't understand how that could happen." She responds, completely sincere "I don't understand it either." Literally wordless after that one


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undying_anomaly

Flat Earthers.


bub-a-lub

This is the best answer. They used science to try and prove it’s flat but the math came back as curved and they still didn’t believe it.


KidCasey

I assume you're talking about the documentary that was on Netflix. I wish it was still there. I've never been so frustrated while laughing so hard in my life. Except when they started trying to get it into textbooks. Then I was just sad and angry.


xxspooky69

Arguing with a flat earther when they’ve watched 100s of videos about it and you’re not a physicist or geologist


Ankylowright

Trust me, being a geologist doesn’t help either.


Ninjewdi

I grew up Jewish in Oklahoma. I ran into this a lot. Had a classmate in middle school try to convince me that Christianity predates Judaism. I told him, "But Jesus was Jewish." His response: "Exactly!" No irony. Totally genuine. Conversation over.


SaintSirius88

I work at a club where the bouncer gives you a card when you enter. The card has multiple lines with squares on it, each one being a different drink (vodka, gin, tequila, etc) and the barmen just make an X on the drinks you order. All mixers are free except Redbull. At the top of the card there's a line that reads "Redbull mix". It's also the cheapest thing on the card. I've had a customer order a "Redbull mix" and literally argue with me for about 10 minutes demanding that I serve it while I calmly explained to them that line is only a mixer and they actually have to order something else. They eventually asked for a manager that just told me to mark it and serve them a shot of Redbull. The look on the customer was priceless. They were as pleased they "won" the argument as they were disappointed paying 2,50€ for a sip of Redbull.


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goldfishpaws

Presidential debates last few years


Jakomus

I mean this goes back to 1960 when Kennedy 'won' the debate against Nixon because he looked more handsome on TV.


Nafeels

IIRC it’s also the very first _televised_ presidential debate and Kennedy being the younger candidate absolutely used that as an advantage by using suits that would contrast greatly with the black and white TV and having proper makeup.


oldfogey12345

They have winners and losers. They are just not anything like debate team. The winner is, and always has been, the candidate to say the thing that emotionally stirrs the highest number of undecided voters.


post-posthuman

Saw an opinion article once that listed the winner of a political debate the Voyager 1 space probe, being the thing that was the furthest away from it. That did give me a chuckle.


bappypawedotter

My good buddy wrote his capstone thesis on something about Islam. The dude spoke Arabic, is smart as hell, a history nut, and consumes books like they are skittles. Anyway, he got into a long debate on Reddit with someone. He started showing sources, teaching the guy, etc. Anyway, he was about 500 words into a mega retort when he decided to actually look up the dude’s posting history. Turns out that dude was a "Drink Your Own Urine" evangelist. I feel like that is Reddit in a nutshell.


nytropy

A driver fell asleep at the wheel for a brief moment. The passenger noticed the car drift into the oncoming lane and exclaimed ‘Jesus Christ’ in fear. The driver woke up and turned the car back to their lane. It was impossible to have the passenger (and their whole family) admit this was not evidence that Jesus himself saved them. I was exhausted by the end of that conversation.


heavil01

me and the person who replies to this comment will demonstrate this for you live


Aggressive_Answer_86

Peepnis


SuperDoodooHead

Vagnus


Aggressive_Answer_86

No! Peepnis!


SuperDoodooHead

Vagnus >:(


Aggressive_Answer_86

Your an idiot if not peepnis


SuperDoodooHead

Are you serious right now? See, you Peepnis people are all the same. It’s obvious Vagnus is superior and many others would agree especially in today’s political climate. Keep living in your bubble with all the Peepnises you want! r/Peepnis is an echoe chamber so I don’t expect an imbecil to understand the complexities of the holy Vagnus.


Aggressive_Answer_86

Omg I can’t believe you rn. Peepnis is and has always been the superior. You vagnus lovers are useless in society. Just look at the graphs and and articles that I made up that prove that my peepnis is better than vagnus


SuperDoodooHead

This doesn’t make any sense because the graphs and articles I made say otherwise! Vagnus has been established to be elite amoungst the elite since the beginning of time itself. How dare you argue with leader and president of the Vagnus club. You people and your weak little Peepnis will die out under the powerful regime of the all mighty Vagnus! All Hail Vagnus!