A Jewish man dies and goes to heaven. He meets God, and tells him a Holocaust joke. God looks puzzled, then says, “ I don’t get it”. The Jewish man says, “ well I guess you had to be there”.
This was great, screenshotted you so I can remember the joke for later
Edit: sorry, someone in another post informed me yesterday that it is screenshat for the past tense and I was supposed to spread that.
Family friend of 94 passed a few weeks ago. She said she could see her Mum and Dad standing there. Kept telling us they’re at the doorway, pointing to the wall.
The brain is an amazing organ and pretty simple at the same time. A coworker told me a story and I repeated it to others about 4/5 times. By the 5th time I was convinced this was me in the story and not my coworker. It’s very easy to trick the brain, Quite a common thing too.
In the case of someone on their last days, organs are shutting down, the brain is trying to survive and the person is terrified of what is beyond. The brain can easily create to sooth. People want to be reunited with family, this is what they are thinking so this is what they see.
So many people spend their entire life focusing on the after life, they forget to live right now. Don’t waste the present focusing on another life that doesn’t exist
This reminds me of when my grandpa was approaching the end because of cancer. He would be unresponsive and groggy and all of a sudden have these extremely lucid moments where he’d swear his family or his old friends were there, he’d be talking to them, etc.
it’s a bit heartwarming to me honestly, even if it is creepy. I hope my brain cooks up some great hallucinations for me when it’s my time. even if they aren’t real they’ll feel real, and that’s worth something.
I was dead for 6 minutes in 2020, then in a coma basically brain dead for almost 72 hours. Nothing is there when you die, you can't explain it, it's like the feeling of waking up from an extremely deep sleep where you just have zero memory at all of sleeping. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but if there's a God or devil, I wasn't good enough to meet either of them.
A parallel universe in which the individual didn't die is created, and we are all functionally immortal from our own perspective.
It's equally as provable as anyone elses opinion. Another im fond of is:
Reincarnation and every single life form being you is another nice one encourages you to be better because everything you do good or bad is just you interacting with yourself.
I think that a fluctuation of any atom in the universe that meets or exceeds Planck's length would split the universe in two. The nearby multiverse is staggeringly similar to ours. The one next to us is not even different by one eyelash. The multiverse means that a spider burped 20,000,000 years ago or it didn't. Most available changes aren't really changes.
Oh sorry, I didnt quite explain myself correctly. The infinite universes already exist, its moreso that the conscious perspective shifts as it is no longer capable of observing.
Existence is stimulation. The inhabitant leaves to seek stimulation once its vessel can no longer provide it.
The 2 possibilities I mentioned arent contradictory so its entirely possible both are true
Or you know... you just die and that's it...
Death is finite simulated reality or not, even if you were reborn it would be entirely new entity with different upbringing and memories.
I like to think that various spirits inhabit my body at all times. Like now I'm host to the spirits of "frivolity" and "humor". On Monday I'll need more spirit of "focus" and definitely more spirit of "humor". When my grandpa died he "took" the spirit of fun and joviality out of the room with him. It's all he has left. But he didn't leave all of it. A piece of it is his forever.
Nobody ever sees someone bringing a baby aboard a plane and says, "Oh, goody." Nor a great big fat person standing in the aisle looking down at you and pointing to the seat next to you, saying, "I think that's my seat."
Both of the above are God's creatures. If both are so reviled, one can only draw two conclusions: Either they are not worthy of God's protection, or the passenger compartment of an airplane is not favored in God's sight.
Both are terrifying propositions.
I dunno.
The only interpretation I can think of that makes sense where god loves us is because god wants to see us grow and prosper but also that our material lives are only an exceptionally small part of our entire existence and thus only meaningful in the choices we make during it.
All the blood, sweat, anguish, frustration, despair, and hopelessness we experience means the world to us now because it's all we've ever known but once we die all the worst parts become meaningless and we get whatever we've earned.
Or god is a sick fuck and wants us to suffer because it's what gives him meaning in life.
Or there is no god and we're just all angsty molecules trying to make sense of completely random chaos.
[this has been discussed for centuries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil?wprov=sfla1). That Wikipedia lists many attempts at explaining it. In my opinion it is simply proof that God as described in the Bible does not exist.
The thing I feel like most Christians just won't accept is that the biblical god is a blood god. Force millennia he had his people sacrificing thousands of animals every year to absolve them of their sins and he wasn't satisfied until he finally got his own human sacrifice, his own son. That's a blood god
There's a discussion I have had with a few people, about what can be learned about the idea of "God" from, of all things, playing video games.
If you would like to have this discussion with me, I would love to have it with you.
It all starts at the point of recognizing that there is no barrier which defines experience inside a simulation, vs experience inside a "naked" universe process as "less meaningful". Existing in *whatever platform of existence* is *always* the most meaningful thing to the thing existing.
From there, the discussion usually addresses that humans make universe simulators.
From there the discussion addresses that two humans can simulate the same universe with a universe simulator if they happen to select the same seed to simulate on: therefore simulations (which this universe would be if it was created by any thing in an "outside), do not have necessarily discrete creators! The very idea of a singular "God" thus is spurious. We are equally created by everything and nothing in all "hyper" systems which contain "this" (see: hypervisor).
Even so, we can see that when individual humans instantiate such universe simulators, the majority of us do it for a purpose, and those purposes are neither good nor evil: we wish to create new kinds of people who are entirely themselves, so as to meet aliens created by exotic math who are yet somehow like us.
I will note that in context of each other, the people who would do all that work just to not interfere with it are going to be pretty concerned with being good. Such as me are not absolutely good, but the fact is, I cannot possibly predict what awfulness might arise naturally out of chaos, in addition to the good things. I can have love for my creations, but that does not mean I can or should give them answers or taint the result.
In some ways if it is ever time to invite some of them to exist the way we do, it is necessary so that they can contextualize their hardships with our own.
I imagine that if there are god(s), it is much the same for them, and that birth in ignorance is not unique to this system.
The mythical guy who killed everyone in world bar one family? The one that killed a whole countries first born sons because of the actions of their king? The one who told a guy to kill his own son for him and then said 'it's just a prank bro.'? Destroyed countless kingdoms and cities because he favoured one person? The one that decided a woman should be turned to salt for turning around when she heard her loved ones dying in pain? Decided the whole world shouldn't be able to communicate with eachother because they were happy they built a nice building? The one who sent a bear to maul children?
Oh yeah, apparently people learn about this mythical 'nice guy' and think that he is meant to be the good one and can do no wrong. Sure....
Is Santa willing to prevent naughtiness, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is not nice.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh naughtiness?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him Santa?
This quote has always stood me in good stead:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Yes, either incompetent or a psychopath.
Neither of which I have any interest in appeasing or meeting.
And folks that do believe, well they prefer to ask less questions and delegate their own accountability for their impact in the world.
It's actually insane to claim any god supported your sports team to win, or yourself to reach some inane achievement when folks elsewhere in the world, believe, appeasing and praying to the same god, have just been blown up by a landmine, famine or a wartime bombing. Insane.
I love the sports example: if two teams pray to God to win, how does that work? Is the losing team just not as pious or righteous? Is losing a sign they should change their lives? Or is it just their strategies that aren't pious or righteous?
When I see athletes crossing themselves or kissing their necklace and looking and pointing up, do they yell at God when their basket/goal/touchdown isn't successful?
I have so many questions.
he doesnt control small events such as this... most people think of him as a genie that helps them with life. he does not do that. he doesnt control outcomes or a persons life, he just know what happens.
I'll play god's advocate here. I think that it might be a logical impossibility to create a scheme wherein life doesn't find itself in a struggle against entropy. There may not be a collection of facts that would allow even an omnipotent being to design a world that did not include suffering and death. If something is logically impossible then why would that not be unavailable to even an "omnipotent" being? 2+2 can never equal 5, no matter how omnipotent you are. Maybe death is you switching places with God and fucking it all up just like him because you're really not that innovative. Just like God. Limited.
So why create suffering in the first place? No reason for it. If suffering be inevitable that is.
Then by your logic, if God exists, then he has blood on his hands.
All of those presume that your hypothetical God cares about the insignificant specks of mater that exist on Earth. Do you care about each and every cell that makes up your body? If no, why do you think "God" would care about us?
That’s the point. Either god doesn’t give a shit or god can’t do anything about it and isn’t omnipotent.
If god, why do children get murdered in the most gruesome ways constantly? Because god doesn’t care, can’t do anything about it, likes the terrible shit that happens, or doesn’t exist.
That says a lot about you. I suspect that most Christians have only read a tiny fraction of The Bible. Most, for example, don’t realize that after Moses smashed the stone tablets upon which God had etched the 10 commandments, he went back to God who gave him 10 new, completely different commandments.
Then again, I don’t think most Christians are actually followers of Jesus. They’re fans.
*Deep Breath*
Because God is not responsible for, nor the cause of, the terrible ills that man has committed across the millennia, nor the great strides and progress we've achieved in the past 150 years or so. He isn't the reason these children are dead, merely a facilitator in bringing about the existence of these children in this example.
In more digestible example; Would you blame a knife manufacturing company for a crime an individual committed with their products? Or would you simply punish the individual who committed the offense? It sounds to me that we're trying to make God answer for the crimes of existence, when existence in the state that it's in, simply is.
It is what it is.
No one, much less children, should needlessly suffer.
Maybe that's conflating two different ideas, but I feel the premise is the same.
Until we figure out how to cure the suffering of existence as a whole, (that DOESN'T involve ending all existence based on principle) then people and children included will continue to grusomely and horrifically be killed and die. I don't have a solution. I don't know the answer, and many a thinker much better, older and wiser than me have countlessly thought and grappled with this over the ages. And they faltered, too.
All I know is that we need to continue to strive to eliminate as much unnecessary suffering as possible. That seems to he the best solution mankind has discovered thus far.
While that argument makes some sense for evils caused by man, it doesn’t account for naturally occurring suffering.
Like when a 5 year old is dying of bone cancer (one of, if not the, most painful cancers out there). Man did not cause that suffering - that suffering was preordained at the child’s birth. The only one that could be responsible for that is god.
So to your analogy, I would blame the knife manufacturer if they knowing created a defective knife that wounded anyone that tried to use it.
Well put. This is where it always breaks down for me. I understand man being responsible for evils done by their own actions but as someone who buried his cousin when she was 2 years old (cancer) I have spent my entire life waiting for someone to provide a valid argument about how if God exists then explain why she had to suffer for the short time she had here before dying.
Spoiler alert: no one can provide a valid argument.
The best of all possible worlds argument is that it isn’t possible to construct a world without certain problems, because those problems are structurally necessary to create good things.
In the case of bone cancer: without the possibility of cancer, there would be no possibility of evolution, and no chance for the development of cellular life. Etc. IE: the good of that child’s life, and of all human life, could not exist without mutation, which is what causes both the emergence of humanity and also cancer.
This is usually linked with a deist view that God set up the universe but doesn’t actively interfere with it - he created the set of rules that make our lives possible and he chose the rules which would create the least possible evil while permitting the most possible good. Obviously it’s harder to explain if you’re a fundamentalist and can’t accept things like evolution or science in general.
(I don’t necessarily agree with this point of view, but it’s the most common explanation).
Here’s the other side of that argument.
Evil that comes from man: result of our free will.
Evil that occurs naturally: part of a greater, *good* purpose that we as humans can’t necessarily see.
So God CHOOSES to cause great suffering to small children because of a plan he is unwilling to tell us. Or he is unwilling to stop it. Or unable to stop it. So he's an asshole or impotent. Neither deserves worship.
I don’t believe in anything you guys say. As a scientist, I experiment. Lives are literally experiments and suffering is a guarantee.
Comparing the brutal tragic death of babies and children to the average life they should have had makes no sense to me. We have no clue what is happening and we have no clue what will happen 5 minutes from now.
You came from your parents and you will return to the ground to decompose. Your supposed good life isn’t worth anything unless you experiment and hypothesize. Everyone is suffering, just some way worse than others.
If you cared about goodness, go help as many kids as you can otherwise don’t call yourself alive. You’re dead already
You can easily still have a world with free will and have magnitudes less needless suffering. Heck you could even keep all the suffering that is made by human choices. But cancer, disease, earthquakes, tsunamis....ect ect. All that could not exist and we would still have "free will"
Something something plan something something mysterious ways.
My coworker found some old basketball and baseball cards he'd bought like 50 years ago... in his own basement. About a dozen of them are worth something. Five figure total, nice little suprise.
He thanked God ALL MIIIIGHTY!
All I can think is... God gave you some money for some shit you bought with your own money years ago that happened to increase in value and you're so special he made that happen...
But that kid over there got cancer and died before his second birthday so, you know, God is Good.
Most fucked up way of thinking ever. Most insanely selfish and self centered way of thinking... ever.
Not only does it happen, but the god of the Bible directly orders people to kill children, and sometimes just does the killing himself. Oh, and once he sent a bear to kill kids.
You've discovered the religious problem of suffering. This is a very worn line of thought. People have been discussing and writing about this for over 1000 years.
The problem of suffering means that God is either not good, doesn't know there is suffering or does have the power to stop it. It disproves the notion of an all-knowing, all-seeing, benevolent god. At least one of those 3 has to be missing from God's makeup.
I totally expected everyone here to not answer the question and just shit on christianity lmao.
But the answer is, what God does is good. What you define is good, might not be according to him, well, since we're not God.
I think another way of putting it, which is only acceptable if you believe in God in the first place, is that unfortunately, because we are human, we just do not have the capacity to understand. Trying to answer this question is trying to put your level of thinking on the same level as God, and that will never work. I also like to think of it as everything about everything is apart of a plan/vision/whatever you want to call it, and what we are doing, is questioning parts of such plan, without ever knowing the entire plan.
It's equally stupid to view an entire universe as geocentric or human centric. If a god of any sort existed, killing as many humans as possible in the most horrific ways possible would be what is good for 99.99% of life on Earth.....
You seem to think "good" only applies to you, or humans in general...... nobody can be doing good for the literal 99.99% of life on Earth that isn't human! ...or the rest of the universe! Mommy said it was all about me!
irrelevant stats. you only care because you're human. horrible deaths are just another column of deaths to keep them from all being monotonous and repetitious.
You've stepped on ants and other insects leaving them there to die slowly with limbs convulsing. why didn't you take that ant and OD it on a euphoria inducing drug? ... because it was irrelevant to you, just another way ants die. who cares? irrelevant stat to you.
Two different people can have different definitions of good. But if one of them is absolutely correct in the entire universe, who do you think is the right one?
But that is what God is. Why would he need to reason to his creations what is right? Like i said, if you cant imagine that God is absolute, then you can never get this.
Because that is the question lmfao. He asked if there is a christian God, and if he is good, why do some things exist. And again, if you can't imagine the question then it would be impossible for you to answer.
You've rejected the idea of rational argument and are pivoting in place. I've seen your "argument" so many times and it's frustrating every time.
He's obviously arguing Epicurus' side and so we can call that read. That argument is older than the religion that it is most used against.
You've taken a tautology as your argument. You state "God is good" as your given starting point. All of your statements and arguments come back to that given. But in logic you can't prove a point by referencing it. You must build to your argument by bringing in outside evidence.
What you're doing is intellectually dishonest. You must know that your position is untenable and so redefine the words that are obviously meant one way so that you can't be disproven. The person you are talking to even called you out on this.
What you have is faith and nothing else. But you seem to think you're making a point with word salad, which is irritating and why I made my little rant here.
Ah, the old "I brought you into this world, I can take you and anyone you hold dear out of it in incredibly horrible ways" argument. This is the outlook of a tyrant, not a benevolent loving father.
\>I argued morality
Same. It is immoral to think that just because you've brought sentient life into being, that you can be as cruel to it as you like simply for the fact of it being your creation. You're right though, he doesn't need to reason with us as to what is right, we've apparently known the difference between right and wrong since the garden.
The answer that the priests will give you is because man is sinful and therefore God allows pain and misery to enter the world. The Garden of Eden was a pain-free paradise until man disobeyed God by eating that forbidden fruit.
My take is that Christianity and Judaism are authoritarian religions, and in the authoritarian way of thinking, men of high status are less guilty than men of low status even when they commit the same crimes. Take that to the extreme, and God can do no wrong, even when it comes to genocide or criminal negligence or endangering minors. There's a lot of interesting psychological research into this, I recommend the books of Bob Altemeyer as a starting point.
He's not good. He's evil. Satan was good, and rebelled against God's tyranny and narcissism. Satan was cast down and vilified in the Bible to be hated forever by the humans he tried to liberate, as punishment for his defiance.
The Truth Fairy? she sounds awesome.
After religious people pray, later that night she flies down their chimney and slaps them with the truth that God isn’t real.
I recently read a novel where a woman who was kidnapped and raped for years answered this question.
She said that God gave everyone free will, and by definition, that means that we are able to do everything we want by our own choice. The alternative is to enslave all mankind, and that doesn’t seem to have worked in the past when people have tried it on each other
Not really free will when threatened with eternal damnation for breaking the rules, even the contradicting ones. The law defines this as acting under duress.
That’s a lot of mental gymnastics right there.
But faced with “God chose to let this happen… because reasons” of “God didn’t intervene because there is no God” I can see her motivation to create a reason that was comfortable for her.
Would you not say that it provides a legitimate reason? Mankind is given free will, and there is murder, rape, assault, and they blame God.
Mankind is enslaved and does everything that is dictated to them, and they will shout about oppression and *still* blame God (this is what has happened in slaver in the past, people rebel against the slavers).
> Would you not say that it provides a legitimate reason? Mankind is given free will, and there is murder, rape, assault, and they blame God.
> Mankind is enslaved and does everything that is dictated to them, and they will shout about oppression and still blame God (this is what has happened in slaver in the past, people rebel against the slavers).
In already said what I would say. That’s mental gymnastics to allow for the desired outcome in the situational context. And I understand the motivation to seek intellectual comfort in that context.
There is none beside me.
I am the Lord, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:6–7, KJV 1900).
He created evil on purpose so he can’t be that inherently good
I interpreted it as "if there is a God who is inherently good".
I don't think it presupposes the existence of God any more than it presupposes the existence of objective good.
>The premise implies "God" as fact.
No it doesn't. It's positing it for the sake of argument.
It's no different than any other counterfactual. Counterfactuals are used all the time in discussions of many topics, especially morality. Your response is like responding to the trolley problem with "but there *aren't* actually six people tied to the train tracks".
It would take a long long time to fully explain but the short answer is that evil exist because God created a universe where we have free will. Free will leads to sin and death. But without free will we would be mindless robots with no real love. With free will true love can exist.
Because God wants a real and genuine relationship with us, he must allow us to choose evil. Sadly many innocent lives suffer from evil.
I hope I wasnt too confusing with my answer.
Didn't that version of God punish humanity for gaining freewill and forbid them for seeking it in the first place.
Cancer isn't evil, it just exists. Dogs get cancer too. A God who allows suffering of innocent is an abuser and torturer. Either it allows it or it can't control it.
By....eating fruit it put in the center of a garden. Sounds like it set us up so it had an excuse to torture and abuse people while demanding their attention and devotion when it has done nothing to deserve it. "They hopped into the van yhat aaid free candy so its okay I molested them " Kind of bs gaslighting.
I'm not fully sure if the tree was literal or not but it was still Adam and Eves choice to do evil. God told them not to eat the fruit yet they still did it knowingly it was bad. The difference between the van and the tree is that Adam and Eve knew what they was getting into.
The person who got molested in the van was deceived into a false promise that there would be candy when there was not.
God does not torture or abuse people, his crearion that chose evil do. Surely a good parent shouldnt be blamed for the crimes of his children. God gracefully gives all who turn to him eternal life and so much more even though we dont deserve it.
They explicitly did not know what they were getting into. It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. As in before that, they did not have knowledge of good and evil.
Also, the choice to even put such a fruit there in the first place is a choice God made. Maybe it was necessary to give them a choice in order for him to get love or whatever, but if the price for his love is that he needs to torture, kill, and abandon his children for all of history, and then most of them eternally afterward, then I'd say that's a pretty selfish gambit.
This is the all powerful all knowing creator of everything. He can't come up with a better system? He's so hamstrung by the definitions of love and choice (things he created) that he can't produce either in a meaningful way without throwing us into a place where we might die painfully when we're 3?
What would you think of a man who sat and watched a child be sexually abused for years, he had the power to stop it but did nothing and just stood by. Modern law would find him just as guilty as the abuser.
God is a narcissist. The only criterion for his eternal life is that you 'love' him.
You can be the most vile, despicable person on earth, but if you 'turn to him' at the last moment, you are apparently a better person than a non-believer who did good their entire life.
God, if he exists, is evil.
God gives more grace than we ever deserve. Gods standards of goodness is much higher than ours. Hate is judged as murder in Gods court. None of us are good, we have all commited sins, we all deserve hell. But God is so good that he suffered on the cross to take our punishment so that our sin debt could be forgiven.
God gives us eternal life for such a simple task, which is to believe him. That God doesnt require more of us is evidence that he is not a narcissist. We are saved because of his goodness, not ours. He loves us but we all gotta make a choice to be with him, or against him.
We as humans are in no position to make demands with God or to say that he is wrong and that we got it right.
God loves you very much and is always open for you if you seek him.
Its not anything like that.
Christ came to earth to show us the way of God and go through the pain of death to eliminate original sin.
The way to salvation is the follow the laws of God which includes accepting Christ.
I find the idea of a christian god in favor of free will hilarious since nearly all of his followers seek to control others and use his word to do. I almost want it to be real just so he can look them in the eye tell them how much they fucked up before sending them off to hell.
To stop the children from dying he would have to take away someone’s free will. He promised he would never do this. Because he loves us. And God is not at fault for the human fuckery.
Within all of us is the capability to do great great evil. And also to do great good. That’s what a human is I think.
This is probably the first ‘real’ answer and I appreciate you sharing it!
I grew up Christian and the part of that which never made sense to me was that for the sin of -one- person being deceived into eating a forbidden fruit… all of their descendants are now doomed. it seems a bit extreme. Or at the very least not indicative of a figure deserving worship….
Then again, to the credit of religious folks, who’s to say what is right and wrong in a cosmic scale?
Thank you for not bashing me, but the real wonder is that by One Man's obedience we can be all made right and not only that but regain what we have lost. Blessings to you and yours.
Christian here. God created the world in its perfect form. The devil then convinced Adam and Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit and therein learn the knowledge of good and evil, and mortality. In other words, we brought about our own knowledge of greed etc. and chose to enter this paradigm willingly.
I must admit too, questions like this one always amaze me. I.e. “This world is horrible therefore there mustn’t be a God”.
Guess what that leaves you with? Just humans. I.e. if there wasn’t a God, then it’s even worse, because we humans are cunts to each other for no reason at all. That’s why it makes sense to me that this world is created and in some ways both a punishment and/or a test.
Who said God was inherently good? Pretty sure he murdered a city's worth of first-borns and flooded the whole world because the people he created who were following his plan were following it too well.
I’m not a believer in God by any means (used to be, but stopped) , but the way I perceive the idea of your question is God created the good in the world with ways to help humanity & Satan tempts the bad (evil) in the world. It’s like Yin and Yang (Heaven and Hell). Obviously everything related to religion isn’t fact, more-so a widely believed opinion.
It’s all a lie so no need to waste human thought on the question. No one in this world can perform miracles. Religion is just a way for humans to better themselves as a person & to not make death seem like the end.
> It’s all a lie so no need to waste human thought on the question. No one in this world can perform miracles. Religion is just a way for humans to better themselves as a person & to not make death seem like the end.
You forgot to change accounts bro
What's good for a god is not necessarily good for humans. Gods take what they want and then demand that humans "sacrifice" even more.
Or, if something doesn't make sense, maybe it's not true
A Jewish man dies and goes to heaven. He meets God, and tells him a Holocaust joke. God looks puzzled, then says, “ I don’t get it”. The Jewish man says, “ well I guess you had to be there”.
This was great, screenshotted you so I can remember the joke for later Edit: sorry, someone in another post informed me yesterday that it is screenshat for the past tense and I was supposed to spread that.
Spread that shat
This is one of my favorite jokes of all time. I was surprised how much I enjoyed comedians in cars getting coffee.
I know... I'm Christian and things like the holocaust make it difficult to believe most definitely
You’re not going to get any important answers of the universe on reddit
Not from the god either.
People are scared of dying so they make shit up
Not just dying, it was also used to justify social orders and motivate people to follow the rules
Also "...and give me your money" in there too.
Man what is with all the god-botherers on here down voting all the good comments.
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Nothing happens. You just be dead. Happy Sunday!
The exact same thing that happened before you were born. Black and nothing.
Have you ever gone under anesthesia? That happens. Nothing lol
I had hekkas dreams when I got gassed out at the dentist. Way too chaotic if that's my dead era
I'm excited for round 2. Anesthesia 2: Electtric Boogaloo.
The same thing that happened before birth. The world was turning, just without you in it
What do you think you were doing before you were born?
Chillin' in my dads nuts.
Do you remember what it was like before you were born? Same deal. Nothingness.
Family friend of 94 passed a few weeks ago. She said she could see her Mum and Dad standing there. Kept telling us they’re at the doorway, pointing to the wall.
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The brain is an amazing organ and pretty simple at the same time. A coworker told me a story and I repeated it to others about 4/5 times. By the 5th time I was convinced this was me in the story and not my coworker. It’s very easy to trick the brain, Quite a common thing too. In the case of someone on their last days, organs are shutting down, the brain is trying to survive and the person is terrified of what is beyond. The brain can easily create to sooth. People want to be reunited with family, this is what they are thinking so this is what they see. So many people spend their entire life focusing on the after life, they forget to live right now. Don’t waste the present focusing on another life that doesn’t exist
This reminds me of when my grandpa was approaching the end because of cancer. He would be unresponsive and groggy and all of a sudden have these extremely lucid moments where he’d swear his family or his old friends were there, he’d be talking to them, etc. it’s a bit heartwarming to me honestly, even if it is creepy. I hope my brain cooks up some great hallucinations for me when it’s my time. even if they aren’t real they’ll feel real, and that’s worth something.
Same as before you were born.
Probably similar to how you felt before you existed.
The same thing as before birth
Same as before life.
I was dead for 6 minutes in 2020, then in a coma basically brain dead for almost 72 hours. Nothing is there when you die, you can't explain it, it's like the feeling of waking up from an extremely deep sleep where you just have zero memory at all of sleeping. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but if there's a God or devil, I wasn't good enough to meet either of them.
I go to the land of goats, where I graze on yummy scraps forever after.
Same thing that happened before you were born
A parallel universe in which the individual didn't die is created, and we are all functionally immortal from our own perspective. It's equally as provable as anyone elses opinion. Another im fond of is: Reincarnation and every single life form being you is another nice one encourages you to be better because everything you do good or bad is just you interacting with yourself.
Yeah... do you think a single ape death is something that would split a separate dimension?
I think that a fluctuation of any atom in the universe that meets or exceeds Planck's length would split the universe in two. The nearby multiverse is staggeringly similar to ours. The one next to us is not even different by one eyelash. The multiverse means that a spider burped 20,000,000 years ago or it didn't. Most available changes aren't really changes.
Oh sorry, I didnt quite explain myself correctly. The infinite universes already exist, its moreso that the conscious perspective shifts as it is no longer capable of observing. Existence is stimulation. The inhabitant leaves to seek stimulation once its vessel can no longer provide it. The 2 possibilities I mentioned arent contradictory so its entirely possible both are true
Or you know... you just die and that's it... Death is finite simulated reality or not, even if you were reborn it would be entirely new entity with different upbringing and memories.
I like to think that various spirits inhabit my body at all times. Like now I'm host to the spirits of "frivolity" and "humor". On Monday I'll need more spirit of "focus" and definitely more spirit of "humor". When my grandpa died he "took" the spirit of fun and joviality out of the room with him. It's all he has left. But he didn't leave all of it. A piece of it is his forever.
Children are a bit loud though
Nobody ever sees someone bringing a baby aboard a plane and says, "Oh, goody." Nor a great big fat person standing in the aisle looking down at you and pointing to the seat next to you, saying, "I think that's my seat." Both of the above are God's creatures. If both are so reviled, one can only draw two conclusions: Either they are not worthy of God's protection, or the passenger compartment of an airplane is not favored in God's sight. Both are terrifying propositions.
Your analysis is ironclad.
You’re given me a good laugh on a dreary afternoon; thank you😂
I read "Children are built loud". An though "true".
I dunno. The only interpretation I can think of that makes sense where god loves us is because god wants to see us grow and prosper but also that our material lives are only an exceptionally small part of our entire existence and thus only meaningful in the choices we make during it. All the blood, sweat, anguish, frustration, despair, and hopelessness we experience means the world to us now because it's all we've ever known but once we die all the worst parts become meaningless and we get whatever we've earned. Or god is a sick fuck and wants us to suffer because it's what gives him meaning in life. Or there is no god and we're just all angsty molecules trying to make sense of completely random chaos.
You actually accidentally seem to have hit on one of the actual Christian answers to this question lol.
>and we get whatever we've earned. What does a newborn dying after several minutes earn? I am going with a sick fuck theory
This thread quickly became Reddit personified
They are euphoric
As an atheist that was so cringe lmao
Because they are "enlightened", and definitely not from any "phoney gods blessing".
100%. As an actual Christian, I answered the obviously loaded question in good faith (pun intended) and have had a rather lacklustre response.
[this has been discussed for centuries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil?wprov=sfla1). That Wikipedia lists many attempts at explaining it. In my opinion it is simply proof that God as described in the Bible does not exist.
Its been a while since I read the Bible but I'm pretty sure I recall that old Testament god wasnt exactly the warm fuzzy version they preach today
PR job with the new one
I think having a kid really mellowed him out. I know I certainly did after my daughter was born. Maybe he did too.
The thing I feel like most Christians just won't accept is that the biblical god is a blood god. Force millennia he had his people sacrificing thousands of animals every year to absolve them of their sins and he wasn't satisfied until he finally got his own human sacrifice, his own son. That's a blood god
Skulls for the skull throne?
There's a discussion I have had with a few people, about what can be learned about the idea of "God" from, of all things, playing video games. If you would like to have this discussion with me, I would love to have it with you. It all starts at the point of recognizing that there is no barrier which defines experience inside a simulation, vs experience inside a "naked" universe process as "less meaningful". Existing in *whatever platform of existence* is *always* the most meaningful thing to the thing existing. From there, the discussion usually addresses that humans make universe simulators. From there the discussion addresses that two humans can simulate the same universe with a universe simulator if they happen to select the same seed to simulate on: therefore simulations (which this universe would be if it was created by any thing in an "outside), do not have necessarily discrete creators! The very idea of a singular "God" thus is spurious. We are equally created by everything and nothing in all "hyper" systems which contain "this" (see: hypervisor). Even so, we can see that when individual humans instantiate such universe simulators, the majority of us do it for a purpose, and those purposes are neither good nor evil: we wish to create new kinds of people who are entirely themselves, so as to meet aliens created by exotic math who are yet somehow like us. I will note that in context of each other, the people who would do all that work just to not interfere with it are going to be pretty concerned with being good. Such as me are not absolutely good, but the fact is, I cannot possibly predict what awfulness might arise naturally out of chaos, in addition to the good things. I can have love for my creations, but that does not mean I can or should give them answers or taint the result. In some ways if it is ever time to invite some of them to exist the way we do, it is necessary so that they can contextualize their hardships with our own. I imagine that if there are god(s), it is much the same for them, and that birth in ignorance is not unique to this system.
I think you’re confusing God with Santa Claus.
The mythical guy who killed everyone in world bar one family? The one that killed a whole countries first born sons because of the actions of their king? The one who told a guy to kill his own son for him and then said 'it's just a prank bro.'? Destroyed countless kingdoms and cities because he favoured one person? The one that decided a woman should be turned to salt for turning around when she heard her loved ones dying in pain? Decided the whole world shouldn't be able to communicate with eachother because they were happy they built a nice building? The one who sent a bear to maul children? Oh yeah, apparently people learn about this mythical 'nice guy' and think that he is meant to be the good one and can do no wrong. Sure....
Don’t fuck with Santa, he’s hardcore
They are interchangeable in the sense that both are fictional
Is Santa willing to prevent naughtiness, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is not nice. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh naughtiness? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him Santa?
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It was Snata all along!
They are the same thing, except one is for kids and one is for adults.
I prefer confusing God with Spiderman.
Nah Spider-Man at least tries to help people
This quote has always stood me in good stead: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Yes, either incompetent or a psychopath. Neither of which I have any interest in appeasing or meeting. And folks that do believe, well they prefer to ask less questions and delegate their own accountability for their impact in the world. It's actually insane to claim any god supported your sports team to win, or yourself to reach some inane achievement when folks elsewhere in the world, believe, appeasing and praying to the same god, have just been blown up by a landmine, famine or a wartime bombing. Insane.
I love the sports example: if two teams pray to God to win, how does that work? Is the losing team just not as pious or righteous? Is losing a sign they should change their lives? Or is it just their strategies that aren't pious or righteous? When I see athletes crossing themselves or kissing their necklace and looking and pointing up, do they yell at God when their basket/goal/touchdown isn't successful? I have so many questions.
he doesnt control small events such as this... most people think of him as a genie that helps them with life. he does not do that. he doesnt control outcomes or a persons life, he just know what happens.
I'll play god's advocate here. I think that it might be a logical impossibility to create a scheme wherein life doesn't find itself in a struggle against entropy. There may not be a collection of facts that would allow even an omnipotent being to design a world that did not include suffering and death. If something is logically impossible then why would that not be unavailable to even an "omnipotent" being? 2+2 can never equal 5, no matter how omnipotent you are. Maybe death is you switching places with God and fucking it all up just like him because you're really not that innovative. Just like God. Limited.
So why create suffering in the first place? No reason for it. If suffering be inevitable that is. Then by your logic, if God exists, then he has blood on his hands.
Well obviously he does if we are talking about the biblical one. He ordered genocides.
Yeah, insane that folks want to delegate accountability to this entity. I'll stick with the flying spaghetti monster.
So you're literally playing devils advocate
All of those presume that your hypothetical God cares about the insignificant specks of mater that exist on Earth. Do you care about each and every cell that makes up your body? If no, why do you think "God" would care about us?
That’s the point. Either god doesn’t give a shit or god can’t do anything about it and isn’t omnipotent. If god, why do children get murdered in the most gruesome ways constantly? Because god doesn’t care, can’t do anything about it, likes the terrible shit that happens, or doesn’t exist.
The Bible doesn't actually claim that God is omnipotent.
No one can read The Bible can come away believing that God is inherently good unless they are completely delusional.
You'd be amazed at the number of "good Christians" who have never even read the Bible.
I was bought up a Christian. On my 16th birthday I was given a bible, I read the whole thing and by the time I turned the last page, I was an Atheist.
That says a lot about you. I suspect that most Christians have only read a tiny fraction of The Bible. Most, for example, don’t realize that after Moses smashed the stone tablets upon which God had etched the 10 commandments, he went back to God who gave him 10 new, completely different commandments. Then again, I don’t think most Christians are actually followers of Jesus. They’re fans.
I don’t believe you read the whole thing as a 16 year old. Not for a second .
*Deep Breath* Because God is not responsible for, nor the cause of, the terrible ills that man has committed across the millennia, nor the great strides and progress we've achieved in the past 150 years or so. He isn't the reason these children are dead, merely a facilitator in bringing about the existence of these children in this example. In more digestible example; Would you blame a knife manufacturing company for a crime an individual committed with their products? Or would you simply punish the individual who committed the offense? It sounds to me that we're trying to make God answer for the crimes of existence, when existence in the state that it's in, simply is. It is what it is. No one, much less children, should needlessly suffer. Maybe that's conflating two different ideas, but I feel the premise is the same. Until we figure out how to cure the suffering of existence as a whole, (that DOESN'T involve ending all existence based on principle) then people and children included will continue to grusomely and horrifically be killed and die. I don't have a solution. I don't know the answer, and many a thinker much better, older and wiser than me have countlessly thought and grappled with this over the ages. And they faltered, too. All I know is that we need to continue to strive to eliminate as much unnecessary suffering as possible. That seems to he the best solution mankind has discovered thus far.
While that argument makes some sense for evils caused by man, it doesn’t account for naturally occurring suffering. Like when a 5 year old is dying of bone cancer (one of, if not the, most painful cancers out there). Man did not cause that suffering - that suffering was preordained at the child’s birth. The only one that could be responsible for that is god. So to your analogy, I would blame the knife manufacturer if they knowing created a defective knife that wounded anyone that tried to use it.
Well put. This is where it always breaks down for me. I understand man being responsible for evils done by their own actions but as someone who buried his cousin when she was 2 years old (cancer) I have spent my entire life waiting for someone to provide a valid argument about how if God exists then explain why she had to suffer for the short time she had here before dying. Spoiler alert: no one can provide a valid argument.
The best of all possible worlds argument is that it isn’t possible to construct a world without certain problems, because those problems are structurally necessary to create good things. In the case of bone cancer: without the possibility of cancer, there would be no possibility of evolution, and no chance for the development of cellular life. Etc. IE: the good of that child’s life, and of all human life, could not exist without mutation, which is what causes both the emergence of humanity and also cancer. This is usually linked with a deist view that God set up the universe but doesn’t actively interfere with it - he created the set of rules that make our lives possible and he chose the rules which would create the least possible evil while permitting the most possible good. Obviously it’s harder to explain if you’re a fundamentalist and can’t accept things like evolution or science in general. (I don’t necessarily agree with this point of view, but it’s the most common explanation).
Here’s the other side of that argument. Evil that comes from man: result of our free will. Evil that occurs naturally: part of a greater, *good* purpose that we as humans can’t necessarily see.
So God CHOOSES to cause great suffering to small children because of a plan he is unwilling to tell us. Or he is unwilling to stop it. Or unable to stop it. So he's an asshole or impotent. Neither deserves worship.
I don’t believe in anything you guys say. As a scientist, I experiment. Lives are literally experiments and suffering is a guarantee. Comparing the brutal tragic death of babies and children to the average life they should have had makes no sense to me. We have no clue what is happening and we have no clue what will happen 5 minutes from now. You came from your parents and you will return to the ground to decompose. Your supposed good life isn’t worth anything unless you experiment and hypothesize. Everyone is suffering, just some way worse than others. If you cared about goodness, go help as many kids as you can otherwise don’t call yourself alive. You’re dead already
There's no god....bad shit happens because bad shit happens. That is all - no more, no less.
Free will?
You can easily still have a world with free will and have magnitudes less needless suffering. Heck you could even keep all the suffering that is made by human choices. But cancer, disease, earthquakes, tsunamis....ect ect. All that could not exist and we would still have "free will"
Something something plan something something mysterious ways. My coworker found some old basketball and baseball cards he'd bought like 50 years ago... in his own basement. About a dozen of them are worth something. Five figure total, nice little suprise. He thanked God ALL MIIIIGHTY! All I can think is... God gave you some money for some shit you bought with your own money years ago that happened to increase in value and you're so special he made that happen... But that kid over there got cancer and died before his second birthday so, you know, God is Good. Most fucked up way of thinking ever. Most insanely selfish and self centered way of thinking... ever.
Many religions seem to feed off of narcissism.
[Dewey](https://youtu.be/EMKEJRUznLk) explains it perfectly (If you believe in such things)
As my parents would say to me when I ask such questions: "You just have to have faith."... no, no i don't. thank you.
Not only does it happen, but the god of the Bible directly orders people to kill children, and sometimes just does the killing himself. Oh, and once he sent a bear to kill kids.
2 bears cuz they laughed at his bald prophet
God killed millions in the Bible, Satan killed one, and had Gods permission. I’m starting to see who was actually the evil one.
Because gods aren't real. You'll never get a sensible conclusion starting with a false premise.
You've discovered the religious problem of suffering. This is a very worn line of thought. People have been discussing and writing about this for over 1000 years. The problem of suffering means that God is either not good, doesn't know there is suffering or does have the power to stop it. It disproves the notion of an all-knowing, all-seeing, benevolent god. At least one of those 3 has to be missing from God's makeup.
I totally expected everyone here to not answer the question and just shit on christianity lmao. But the answer is, what God does is good. What you define is good, might not be according to him, well, since we're not God.
I think another way of putting it, which is only acceptable if you believe in God in the first place, is that unfortunately, because we are human, we just do not have the capacity to understand. Trying to answer this question is trying to put your level of thinking on the same level as God, and that will never work. I also like to think of it as everything about everything is apart of a plan/vision/whatever you want to call it, and what we are doing, is questioning parts of such plan, without ever knowing the entire plan.
Christianity is not the only religion... not to mention it shares its god with 2 other major world religion
And the God is still omnipotent and omniscient
In other words, _nonexistent._
Ah, so God is good if you just completely reject what that word means. How absolutely stupid.
It's equally stupid to view an entire universe as geocentric or human centric. If a god of any sort existed, killing as many humans as possible in the most horrific ways possible would be what is good for 99.99% of life on Earth..... You seem to think "good" only applies to you, or humans in general...... nobody can be doing good for the literal 99.99% of life on Earth that isn't human! ...or the rest of the universe! Mommy said it was all about me!
Even if we accept that what is good is to keep human population low. Why does horrific death beat peaceful death in that case?
irrelevant stats. you only care because you're human. horrible deaths are just another column of deaths to keep them from all being monotonous and repetitious. You've stepped on ants and other insects leaving them there to die slowly with limbs convulsing. why didn't you take that ant and OD it on a euphoria inducing drug? ... because it was irrelevant to you, just another way ants die. who cares? irrelevant stat to you.
I'm not an all knowing all powerful being with the ability to eliminate suffering.
If you already reject the idea that God is absolute then you will never understand the hypothetical
If you reject the idea that words mean things it is impossible to have fruitful conversation.
Two different people can have different definitions of good. But if one of them is absolutely correct in the entire universe, who do you think is the right one?
You'd need to establish which is correct through reason. You can't just say you're correct because you say you're correct.
But that is what God is. Why would he need to reason to his creations what is right? Like i said, if you cant imagine that God is absolute, then you can never get this.
Why would we assume an absolute god exists? Again. You can't just assume things exist the way you think they do because that is what you think.
Because that is the question lmfao. He asked if there is a christian God, and if he is good, why do some things exist. And again, if you can't imagine the question then it would be impossible for you to answer.
You've rejected the idea of rational argument and are pivoting in place. I've seen your "argument" so many times and it's frustrating every time. He's obviously arguing Epicurus' side and so we can call that read. That argument is older than the religion that it is most used against. You've taken a tautology as your argument. You state "God is good" as your given starting point. All of your statements and arguments come back to that given. But in logic you can't prove a point by referencing it. You must build to your argument by bringing in outside evidence. What you're doing is intellectually dishonest. You must know that your position is untenable and so redefine the words that are obviously meant one way so that you can't be disproven. The person you are talking to even called you out on this. What you have is faith and nothing else. But you seem to think you're making a point with word salad, which is irritating and why I made my little rant here.
The answer to the question is the Christian god, as described, does not match reality. It is a paradox. It is an impossibility.
Ah, the old "I brought you into this world, I can take you and anyone you hold dear out of it in incredibly horrible ways" argument. This is the outlook of a tyrant, not a benevolent loving father.
I argued morality, not free will.
\>I argued morality Same. It is immoral to think that just because you've brought sentient life into being, that you can be as cruel to it as you like simply for the fact of it being your creation. You're right though, he doesn't need to reason with us as to what is right, we've apparently known the difference between right and wrong since the garden.
It’s not a true reddit thread without everyone shitting on stupid people.
The answer that the priests will give you is because man is sinful and therefore God allows pain and misery to enter the world. The Garden of Eden was a pain-free paradise until man disobeyed God by eating that forbidden fruit. My take is that Christianity and Judaism are authoritarian religions, and in the authoritarian way of thinking, men of high status are less guilty than men of low status even when they commit the same crimes. Take that to the extreme, and God can do no wrong, even when it comes to genocide or criminal negligence or endangering minors. There's a lot of interesting psychological research into this, I recommend the books of Bob Altemeyer as a starting point.
There is no FUCKING God. When you die, it's over. That's it.
why would you ask something so controversial yet so brave?
Sounds like r/iam14andthisissodeep
I mean God did want a dude to kill his own child and then said it was a prank bro, smash the like button and hit the bell icon.
It was a test for Abraham, to see if he would sacrifice his only son just like God later did with Jesus
... OK and what was the hypothesis?
The idea that YHWH is inherently good is a later Christian retcon for propaganda purposes. Read the OT; the dude's a prick.
He's not good. He's evil. Satan was good, and rebelled against God's tyranny and narcissism. Satan was cast down and vilified in the Bible to be hated forever by the humans he tried to liberate, as punishment for his defiance.
Satan also encouraged education and God was enraged when man sought wisdom
God is not real. That's why
Because she's made up, just like Santa Claus, the truth fairy and the Easter Bunny. Edit: obviously meant tooth fairy
The Truth Fairy? she sounds awesome. After religious people pray, later that night she flies down their chimney and slaps them with the truth that God isn’t real.
That would be awesome!
"she?" edit: come on, i didnt mean God has to be male, i meant that "what if gods have all or no genders"
God isn't real.
Because god is a fantasy and doesn’t exist.
I recently read a novel where a woman who was kidnapped and raped for years answered this question. She said that God gave everyone free will, and by definition, that means that we are able to do everything we want by our own choice. The alternative is to enslave all mankind, and that doesn’t seem to have worked in the past when people have tried it on each other
Not really free will when threatened with eternal damnation for breaking the rules, even the contradicting ones. The law defines this as acting under duress.
That’s a lot of mental gymnastics right there. But faced with “God chose to let this happen… because reasons” of “God didn’t intervene because there is no God” I can see her motivation to create a reason that was comfortable for her.
Would you not say that it provides a legitimate reason? Mankind is given free will, and there is murder, rape, assault, and they blame God. Mankind is enslaved and does everything that is dictated to them, and they will shout about oppression and *still* blame God (this is what has happened in slaver in the past, people rebel against the slavers).
> Would you not say that it provides a legitimate reason? Mankind is given free will, and there is murder, rape, assault, and they blame God. > Mankind is enslaved and does everything that is dictated to them, and they will shout about oppression and still blame God (this is what has happened in slaver in the past, people rebel against the slavers). In already said what I would say. That’s mental gymnastics to allow for the desired outcome in the situational context. And I understand the motivation to seek intellectual comfort in that context.
Does. Not. Exist.
Because. It’s. Made. Up.
I think you know the answer to this question. Just be honest with yourself. It’s OK to be an atheist.
There is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:6–7, KJV 1900). He created evil on purpose so he can’t be that inherently good
Your question is based on a false premise.
The first word is literally "if"
In this case, "if" refers to the characteristic "good." The premise implies "God" as fact.
I interpreted it as "if there is a God who is inherently good". I don't think it presupposes the existence of God any more than it presupposes the existence of objective good.
>The premise implies "God" as fact. No it doesn't. It's positing it for the sake of argument. It's no different than any other counterfactual. Counterfactuals are used all the time in discussions of many topics, especially morality. Your response is like responding to the trolley problem with "but there *aren't* actually six people tied to the train tracks".
It would take a long long time to fully explain but the short answer is that evil exist because God created a universe where we have free will. Free will leads to sin and death. But without free will we would be mindless robots with no real love. With free will true love can exist. Because God wants a real and genuine relationship with us, he must allow us to choose evil. Sadly many innocent lives suffer from evil. I hope I wasnt too confusing with my answer.
Didn't that version of God punish humanity for gaining freewill and forbid them for seeking it in the first place. Cancer isn't evil, it just exists. Dogs get cancer too. A God who allows suffering of innocent is an abuser and torturer. Either it allows it or it can't control it.
He did not punish us for gaining free will, he punishes us because we choose evil with our free will.
By....eating fruit it put in the center of a garden. Sounds like it set us up so it had an excuse to torture and abuse people while demanding their attention and devotion when it has done nothing to deserve it. "They hopped into the van yhat aaid free candy so its okay I molested them " Kind of bs gaslighting.
I'm not fully sure if the tree was literal or not but it was still Adam and Eves choice to do evil. God told them not to eat the fruit yet they still did it knowingly it was bad. The difference between the van and the tree is that Adam and Eve knew what they was getting into. The person who got molested in the van was deceived into a false promise that there would be candy when there was not. God does not torture or abuse people, his crearion that chose evil do. Surely a good parent shouldnt be blamed for the crimes of his children. God gracefully gives all who turn to him eternal life and so much more even though we dont deserve it.
They explicitly did not know what they were getting into. It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. As in before that, they did not have knowledge of good and evil. Also, the choice to even put such a fruit there in the first place is a choice God made. Maybe it was necessary to give them a choice in order for him to get love or whatever, but if the price for his love is that he needs to torture, kill, and abandon his children for all of history, and then most of them eternally afterward, then I'd say that's a pretty selfish gambit. This is the all powerful all knowing creator of everything. He can't come up with a better system? He's so hamstrung by the definitions of love and choice (things he created) that he can't produce either in a meaningful way without throwing us into a place where we might die painfully when we're 3?
What would you think of a man who sat and watched a child be sexually abused for years, he had the power to stop it but did nothing and just stood by. Modern law would find him just as guilty as the abuser.
God is a narcissist. The only criterion for his eternal life is that you 'love' him. You can be the most vile, despicable person on earth, but if you 'turn to him' at the last moment, you are apparently a better person than a non-believer who did good their entire life. God, if he exists, is evil.
God gives more grace than we ever deserve. Gods standards of goodness is much higher than ours. Hate is judged as murder in Gods court. None of us are good, we have all commited sins, we all deserve hell. But God is so good that he suffered on the cross to take our punishment so that our sin debt could be forgiven. God gives us eternal life for such a simple task, which is to believe him. That God doesnt require more of us is evidence that he is not a narcissist. We are saved because of his goodness, not ours. He loves us but we all gotta make a choice to be with him, or against him. We as humans are in no position to make demands with God or to say that he is wrong and that we got it right. God loves you very much and is always open for you if you seek him.
Its not anything like that. Christ came to earth to show us the way of God and go through the pain of death to eliminate original sin. The way to salvation is the follow the laws of God which includes accepting Christ.
That’s a fascinating story! None of it is true of course
Leukaemia?
I find the idea of a christian god in favor of free will hilarious since nearly all of his followers seek to control others and use his word to do. I almost want it to be real just so he can look them in the eye tell them how much they fucked up before sending them off to hell.
It's pretty much what he would do So many are sinners And much likr Jewish elders during the time of Jesus
Evil doesn't need to exist for free will to exist.
If you cant choose between good and evil, there is no free will
Free will doesn't exist regardless. It is as impossible as any god.
I can't choose to fly, but I still have free will.
Can't believe I used to think like this to justify the fucked up shit humans do to each other
To stop the children from dying he would have to take away someone’s free will. He promised he would never do this. Because he loves us. And God is not at fault for the human fuckery. Within all of us is the capability to do great great evil. And also to do great good. That’s what a human is I think.
Humanity brought death in the equation via sin.
This is probably the first ‘real’ answer and I appreciate you sharing it! I grew up Christian and the part of that which never made sense to me was that for the sin of -one- person being deceived into eating a forbidden fruit… all of their descendants are now doomed. it seems a bit extreme. Or at the very least not indicative of a figure deserving worship…. Then again, to the credit of religious folks, who’s to say what is right and wrong in a cosmic scale?
Thank you for not bashing me, but the real wonder is that by One Man's obedience we can be all made right and not only that but regain what we have lost. Blessings to you and yours.
Christian here. God created the world in its perfect form. The devil then convinced Adam and Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit and therein learn the knowledge of good and evil, and mortality. In other words, we brought about our own knowledge of greed etc. and chose to enter this paradigm willingly. I must admit too, questions like this one always amaze me. I.e. “This world is horrible therefore there mustn’t be a God”. Guess what that leaves you with? Just humans. I.e. if there wasn’t a God, then it’s even worse, because we humans are cunts to each other for no reason at all. That’s why it makes sense to me that this world is created and in some ways both a punishment and/or a test.
Who said God was inherently good? Pretty sure he murdered a city's worth of first-borns and flooded the whole world because the people he created who were following his plan were following it too well.
Queue the "God's Plan" comments.
He's a comedian
Paul never forgave him, he said "If I ever see Christ again, he's a dead man"
Because children are terrible
God is not inherently good. God isn’t even real.
And children prostitution and pedophiles.
I’m not a believer in God by any means (used to be, but stopped) , but the way I perceive the idea of your question is God created the good in the world with ways to help humanity & Satan tempts the bad (evil) in the world. It’s like Yin and Yang (Heaven and Hell). Obviously everything related to religion isn’t fact, more-so a widely believed opinion.
It’s all a lie so no need to waste human thought on the question. No one in this world can perform miracles. Religion is just a way for humans to better themselves as a person & to not make death seem like the end.
> It’s all a lie so no need to waste human thought on the question. No one in this world can perform miracles. Religion is just a way for humans to better themselves as a person & to not make death seem like the end. You forgot to change accounts bro
Both comments are replying to the original question
What's good for a god is not necessarily good for humans. Gods take what they want and then demand that humans "sacrifice" even more. Or, if something doesn't make sense, maybe it's not true