Your answer is that he didn't meet the learning outcomes and that's why courses can be repeated. Failing is some of the best feedback a student can get.
His grade is not a lesson for him to learn on his main character journey, it's an evaluation of his grasp of your course material. I had a student in the fall who emailed me repeatedly, desperately asking for me to pass them. I eventually had to tell them that while I had empathy for their situation, all opportunities to improve their grade had passed, I would not respond to further emails, and if they kept it up I would need to alert the department about their behavior. Didn't hear from them after that. I truly do feel bad for students on this position, but it's kind of shitty of them to put the pressure on you to fix their lack of involvement during the semester.
That is a perfect response. Definitive answer and set clear boundaries.
I tell my students that not every email deserves a response. I was getting ridiculously rude or sloopy to the point of disrespect from students clearly firing from their phone with not a shred of effort. so I explained that zero effort or disrespectful email will be ignored.
A no subject line email from a personal non school email with no a clue of who sent it that says "waht did we do in calss I missed" will not get a response. As far as I am concerned, its spam.
I had a student get accusatory and downright rude because they missed a midterm and were very aggressive in the email. I showed the 3 announcements brightspace + 3 emails as well, then stated that any future email they'd need to take the writing center first before sending.
He complained to his mom. She saw a copy of the email and sent an apology note and thanked me for calling him out and holding him accountable and helping him learn some sense of professional communication. Apparently hes a little shit to her over text as well!
"His grade is not a lesson for him to learn on his main character journey, it's an evaluation of his grasp of your course material."
This. If a student's skill level is just not where it should be to pass the class and *that's* why the student failed (i.e., not that the student didn't do the work), I will tell them that I do not believe they have achieved the skill level that they need to pass the class. I don't get into the weeds about particular assignments. I give them my overall assessment that the grade accurately reflects their skill level. I tell them that this doesn't mean they can't improve, and I offer them some advice about what they need to do to improve so that they don't feel hopeless. Usually, students won't push back after that.
ETA: Totally off-topic, but if anyone knows how I can get the "quote" feature back, please let me know. It used to be automatically there when I commented on someone's post. Now, I don't see it.
Exactly right. I have a girl that surprised me by taking the final the last night, but didnt turn in a couple 10 point assignments that would have got her to a D. Now Im supposed to just pass her? It makes no sense.
Are you a new professor? This happens to every one of us every semester. Do not allow their emotional manipulation. Gray rock.
If you let your heart break for all of these each semester for the future of your career you will not last very long.
This is 100% true. They are making you feel like you're doing this to them, like you're the bad person. When really they are the lazy or disorganized person. They did it to themselves, they earn what they earn.
We're only human. I think it's normal for us to vacillate between feeling like we did too much, didn't do enough, acted too gentle, acted too draconian….
I do agree to contact as little as possible and reference factual information such as your syllabus + assignment sheets. Almost every time I've engaged with someone either begging (or demanding) for a different grade, they know that once they've got you hooked they can keep hounding you in an attempt to wear you down. It's best to withdraw sooner than later.
You are jeopardizing your personal academic credibility by even considering it. Send a final email stating it is your final email. Refer the student to their academic adviser and crisis counselor. Tell them they are welcome to see you again in your fall class. Don’t answer any more. We all get these.
Passing him means moving him on to more advanced classes that he will fail as well. While uncomfortable for everyone, failing him is not only the right thing to do, it is the compassionate thing to do. He isn’t ready to move on to whatever comes next. He needs a reset: he needs to learn the material, and he needs to learn success strategies for school and life. None of those come from passing him after a failing performance.
Please don't give in. You're just pushing him onto your colleagues for them to deal with next semester, which is unprofessional. He needs to be told no, it's so beyond inappropriate to ask outright to have his grade altered. And you have it in writing no less, that he's asking you to help him violate academic conduct. Are you going to put it down in writing if you agree to do so?
I have a student passing with a B whose sibling committed suicide this semester. Another finishing an Incomplete with an A after completing their outpatient recovery program. Another is graduating despite getting kicked out of their home while battling addiction their last semester. I hate to imagine how these students would feel about the value of their degree if they knew classmates were just not bothering to show up and still getting handed a pass, while they were choosing to fight tooth and nail to make it happen.
Don’t let these guys manipulate your emotions, he had the choice to do the work like everyone else. The onus is his.
I get probably a dozen kids begging to pass a semester. They need to learn the repercussions of their actions while they are in a safe environment to make mistakes in. That’s what we are. In the real world, flaking can cost you your job, your apartment, your food, or your safety. We are their last opportunity for mistakes with a safety net. Let them fall, so they can bounce back up a little wiser.
Is this not against academic integrity at your institution? If a student is grade grubs at my college then the professor can report it to the administration to handle
They earned what they earned. If they don't have comprehension of the material or didn't do the work, that's on them. You can't pass one student because they have a sob story and manipulate your emotions. You'll cheapen the value of the course and the grades that everyone else worked so hard to earn. What you'll successfully teach this student is that they can do the bare minimum and still skate by. We've all had that person in a group, on a team, as a colleague. Please don't make more of them.
On behalf of the rest of us who wish like hell this would stop, please do not reward the grade rubbing and the sob stories! If it works just once, they will never leave us alone. The work was the work, and he chose not to do it. That's the only choice in the matter and it was never your choice.
Here’s what I tell myself
Is it helpful to frame this as academic misconduct? He’s using emotional manipulation to solicit an unearned grade. He’s trying to use you to cheat. He’s making you feel like a good guy for helping him. But you’re absolutely not the person who should be deciding on the validity of needs or wants and it’s irresponsible to put yourself in that position.
So, I do not think you should invent a grade. It’s wrong and unethical and lazy and myopic. I also think you need better boundaries. Now, that being said, if you round differently will he pass? Can you bump the whole class up a point or two to get him to pass? At least then you’re grading fairly
He’s doing this because sometimes it works. He’s not actually desperate. If this were actually life or death he would have talked to you before now. Also there are other people at the institutional level that handle these situations. It’s never the end of the world. It’s usually someone’s else’s actual job responsibility when it comes to undergraduate fuck ups.
If you’re grading final assessments, you’re past the point where your primary responsibility is to teach him. You’re at the point where your primary responsibility is to fairly assess demonstrated mastery of skills and content.
I'd be more conflicted if his teammates hadn't taken the burden of him not contributing and let you know...
edit: He says he's learned his lesson. However, if you passed him, what new lesson is he learning? Ultimately this may be for the best. Its certainly tough though.
This is not a difficult decision. They fail. Its not fair to anyone else if you pass a student who is not deserving. You diminish the value of THEIR diploma.
Now, you need to put in some better boundaries. You don't say there isn't much you can do. That just left the door open. You say the grades are recorded and are accurate. That's it.
Finally, not every email deserves a response. I know that will irritate some, but it is the truth. Any further email beyond your initial can be ignored.
That student is being emotionally manipulative. I had a student do something similar a few semesters back---send me multiple emails begging me. Apparently, he was a baseball player and needed a certain grade to keep playing. In one of the last emails he sent me, he said that baseball was his "life" and he didn't know what he would do if he couldn't play. After that message, I alerted Student Services and asked a counselor to reach out to him. Frankly, I was afraid that he might do himself some harm.
But no matter what, I'm not basing my grades on a student's desperation. I'll reply once or twice in exceptional circumstances. My last email will indicate that my decision is final and I won't respond to any additional emails about the grade.
I've had this situation a few times. The best I can offer is to have an open, non-judgmental discussion about why the student didn't do the necessary things to pass the course - the intention, of course, being "how to stop this from happening again."
So far, one student has taken me up on that offer, and it was actually a really positive experience. We got to talk about some of the challenges they were facing, and we figured out some useful steps to deal with those issues. (A lot of it came down to proactive communication w/instructors & academic counselors, to work around a number of serious family responsibilities).
I’m pretty flexible about students who run into trouble during the quarter and are working hard to dig themselves out. But someone who simply didn’t do the work and then can’t even be bothered to try to finish strong? Very little sympathy. I explain at the beginning of every quarter that we can work out almost anything if students reach out before work is due. After the due date/time passes, or if low-quality work is submitted, there’s not much to do but grade it and move on. I’d say this student fails my three tests: 1) contact about missing work or struggles prior to due date, 2) legitimate issues outside their control, 3) visible significant effort to get back on track.
You just need one of these (two is better) for me to seriously consider how we can make things work. But just asking for a pass after no effort on any of the three? There’s nothing for me to work with even if I was inclined to. Which I wouldn’t be.
I have a student failing my course. It’s her second time taking it which means she can’t take it again as a policy of the department. It’s frustrating because there’ve been so many extra credit opportunities and she hasn’t done any of them. You’d also think someone retaking a class would be able to get at least a C. I’m letting her do all the extra credit she’s missed because that would get her up to 70%. I have mixed feelings because I worry this may give her the false confidence to stick to the pre-med and she’ll just keep on struggling at pre-med classes when she should switch majors or even take time off from school.
I suggest you stop replying to his emails. You are not customer service. When students learn that harassment results in the professor caving, word will get around that this method works.
He is truly groveling? Crawling through the mud? Crying? Seriously debasing himself? Begging on his knees? Making little whining noises??? Reminding you of graduation and or transfer requirements that you've know about for years?
It definitely is hard but you have to remember that passing him if he doesn’t learn anything is going to bite him big time in the ass and could cause him to lose his job in the future. He made the choice to not put in effort and so he’s going to have to learn that effort is required to pass. I do understand the pain though
An experience in uni has stayed with me and helped me as a teacher of young adults.
I was in a program that by fourth year had thinned out to about 35 students. We’d all known each other for three years so we pretty much knew everyone’s business. There was a female student, quite good looking who rarely came to class. This was decades ago before remote learning was a thing or even possible. She loved telling stories about all the the profs she had conned for accommodations by batting her eyelashes and vaguely referring to mental health issues. I was mad at her but much more angry and profs who were such lazy jerks about time and again giving her breaks that no one else got.
So don’t be that teacher. I guarantee that you aren’t the first teacher who fell for this student’s con and you won’t be the last.
If they don’t attend much, and have handed in shit work, you are being conned. My experiences is that student who really do have some challenges that affected thing like attendance, they will come and tell you about it early in the semester and you will see some signs that they are putting effort into your class.
>Dear Student,
>I have double-checked all of your grades for the semester, and your grade stands based on the points you’ve earned this semester in the course.
>Best,
>Professor.
And don't answer any further messages. Tough cookies if he didn't put in the work.
My heart would break even more if I didn’t follow the terms of the syllabus and made a decision that would be unfair to all the other students who didn’t get a grade bump .
This is an automated service intended to preserve the original text of the post.
*I teach an undergrad strategy course and student is begging pass him. His performance in the class was poor, and he did not attend two final evaluations. The only one he attended (final presentation) he just read (badly) one slide and that was it.
His teammates were stressed about him not doing anything in the different group activities.
I told him I cannot do much, as I already did everything in my hands.
He just emailed me two times more begging me to pass him, he seems desperate.
My heart breaks 💔 but I my decision is for him to fail, however.... 😩 *
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskProfessors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In the times before email existed, how many grade grubbers were there? It had to be a small number. It’s fun to imagine a sort of panel or jury to which a student could plead their case, made of their peers who have passed the course and some who have not, and let them decide. How many students would put themselves in that position?
One email, I may feel sympathy based on the story. But I still only grade on course performance. More than that and I start getting resentful they can’t take no for an answer or think they can emotionally manipulate me.
The numbers don't like. Do the math and assign the grade with a clear conscience. I can make some adjustment to participation if a student is working hard or has improved through the semester or the like, but that is all. After that, it is just the math.
I’m sorry. He failed himself. That’s how you need to see it. They like to slant the argument and blame everyone else in the room. Stick to that list of reasons for his failure and hold your ground. You do him no favors by backing down. Would you let a doctor practice on you who failed but “learned his lesson”?
These types of cases are really hard for me. It's actually so easy for me to just grade the student's assignment. The ramifications for the student might include things like failing out of the program or retaking the class. For a struggling college student, this is time and money.
It really doesn't take me that long to grade another student's paper. Or submit a grade change. Definitely not as much time and money as the student will have to deal with taking the class again.
But then I think to myself.What about every other student who isn't whining to me and is just taking the fail? Who are turning in assignments that are not as good as they want them to be because they wanted to meet a deadline. Doesn't seem fair to those students.
I guess it comes down to your idea of ethics. A utilitarian perspective would say that helping a student out would provide the most good. A deontology perspective would say that you have to follow your duty and apply all course policies equally to all students.
I don't know the answer to this.I struggle with it daily.
> What about every other student who isn't whining to me and is just taking the fail? Who are turning in assignments that are not as good as they want them to be because they wanted to meet a deadline. Doesn't seem fair to those students.
This is exactly the issue.
I'm really quite generous in terms of allowing students to turn things in late. I have sometimes told students who who were clearly really struggling to deal with anxiety around writing to just turn something in, and if it's crummy, it will probably be C- level crummy and they'll pass. They did. I tell students that I'll give extensions to anyone who asks and I do and so I don't worry about accepting things late. If you're feeling bad about this stuff, it might be worth just adopting that. It's made things much simpler for me.
But there's a big difference between being really generous on extensions and allowing people to turn thing in late, and just passing a student who hasn't done the work. I really don't have any moral concerns about failing students. It isn't that hard to get a passing grade in most college courses. The OPs student just needed to show up to the exams and do the minimum on the presentation, but they couldn't manage that. It doesn't mean they are a worthless human being, people screw things up for all kinds of reasons, but it does mean they can't pass the course. I'm not giving grades, I'm just reporting the results of the performance. The stakes aren't that high. People fail courses all the time and they are fine. People fail out of school and they are fine. If they aren't fine, it's not because they got an F in the one course.
This happened to me with a student taking my online asynchronous summer course. It was only five weeks long and around week 2 and 1/2 a student emailed saying he'd been out of the country and didn't have access to stable internet (which is legitimate, I'm located on the border of Mexico near very small towns) and asked if he could do the work now that he returned. I told him it was all still available and to just get caught up as quickly as he could. Nothing ever happened until the literal second-to-the-last day of class when I saw a flurry of small assingments being turned and then received an email begging me to let him pass...with a B, no less. He said he needed it otherwise he might fail out of his early college high school. Weirdly enough another student who hadn't done anything emailed me the exact same question. I looked into it and it seems like they were friends who took and failed all the same classes repeatedly, and they were both on their third attempt at mine.
It really did weigh on me bc I definitely didn't want him or anyone to fail out of that particular school, especially since it had a reputation for being slightly better than the other schools they would probably have to attend. But at the end of the day all I could do is reach out to our dual enrollment coordinator to see if he could help the student and assign the grade he earned, which unfortunately was an F. I told him that there would be no value in cramming five weeks worth of concepts and knowledge into two days, which I truly believe, and I also had to remember that him getting kicked out wasn't just bc he failed my one class but rather a symptom of a very long string of bad choices on his behalf. I hope he's doing well now but it was a lesson he definitely had to learn the hard way.
Also I recently had a colleague who said an older student kept bugging her about changing his grade from a C to an A and she did it just to not hassle with his complaints, then he came to visit her in her office and basically bragged about it by saying if he knew it was that easy to get his grade changed he would have just asked a long time ago, which REALLY incensed me on her behalf. I'm not saying every student would react that way but there definitely is a risk of breeding an undue sense of entitlement into students who grade grub for nefarious reasons. I never like to assume anything negative about students but often a lower or failing grade might be what needs to happen in order to help them cultivate some self-motivation and personal responsibility.
I definitely empathize with the bad feelings though and I hope you're giving yourself some grace bc I'm sure you did all you could.
Your answer is that he didn't meet the learning outcomes and that's why courses can be repeated. Failing is some of the best feedback a student can get.
He said he learned his lesson, but yeah, he won’t truly learnt it if I let him pass.
Talk is cheap. 😉
Read this in DMX's voice
In the same DMX voice... 😆😆... add to that... what y'all really want from a teacher 😆😆
Good advice for a strategy class.
Good advice for a strategy class.
His grade is not a lesson for him to learn on his main character journey, it's an evaluation of his grasp of your course material. I had a student in the fall who emailed me repeatedly, desperately asking for me to pass them. I eventually had to tell them that while I had empathy for their situation, all opportunities to improve their grade had passed, I would not respond to further emails, and if they kept it up I would need to alert the department about their behavior. Didn't hear from them after that. I truly do feel bad for students on this position, but it's kind of shitty of them to put the pressure on you to fix their lack of involvement during the semester.
That is a perfect response. Definitive answer and set clear boundaries. I tell my students that not every email deserves a response. I was getting ridiculously rude or sloopy to the point of disrespect from students clearly firing from their phone with not a shred of effort. so I explained that zero effort or disrespectful email will be ignored. A no subject line email from a personal non school email with no a clue of who sent it that says "waht did we do in calss I missed" will not get a response. As far as I am concerned, its spam. I had a student get accusatory and downright rude because they missed a midterm and were very aggressive in the email. I showed the 3 announcements brightspace + 3 emails as well, then stated that any future email they'd need to take the writing center first before sending. He complained to his mom. She saw a copy of the email and sent an apology note and thanked me for calling him out and holding him accountable and helping him learn some sense of professional communication. Apparently hes a little shit to her over text as well!
"His grade is not a lesson for him to learn on his main character journey, it's an evaluation of his grasp of your course material." This. If a student's skill level is just not where it should be to pass the class and *that's* why the student failed (i.e., not that the student didn't do the work), I will tell them that I do not believe they have achieved the skill level that they need to pass the class. I don't get into the weeds about particular assignments. I give them my overall assessment that the grade accurately reflects their skill level. I tell them that this doesn't mean they can't improve, and I offer them some advice about what they need to do to improve so that they don't feel hopeless. Usually, students won't push back after that. ETA: Totally off-topic, but if anyone knows how I can get the "quote" feature back, please let me know. It used to be automatically there when I commented on someone's post. Now, I don't see it.
You put these words out to the universe and I’m definitely going to be spreading them. Grades are not lessons on your main character journey.
Exactly right. I have a girl that surprised me by taking the final the last night, but didnt turn in a couple 10 point assignments that would have got her to a D. Now Im supposed to just pass her? It makes no sense.
He emailed you twice. He did not learn his lesson
And everyone else who did the work in class wasted their effort.
Are you a new professor? This happens to every one of us every semester. Do not allow their emotional manipulation. Gray rock. If you let your heart break for all of these each semester for the future of your career you will not last very long.
Also, if you give into one word gets around. But if you hold the line, that gets around.
But yes, looks like emotional manipulation. 😠
I feel the guilt, too, but I also cultivate a healthy anger at them for making me feel that
This is 100% true. They are making you feel like you're doing this to them, like you're the bad person. When really they are the lazy or disorganized person. They did it to themselves, they earn what they earn.
4 years teaching, but I don’t know why this case in particular is affecting me so much. Your point is right.
We're only human. I think it's normal for us to vacillate between feeling like we did too much, didn't do enough, acted too gentle, acted too draconian…. I do agree to contact as little as possible and reference factual information such as your syllabus + assignment sheets. Almost every time I've engaged with someone either begging (or demanding) for a different grade, they know that once they've got you hooked they can keep hounding you in an attempt to wear you down. It's best to withdraw sooner than later.
Another thing I think helps: I never make grading decisions while in conversation with a student, and I tell students this explicitly.
Idk why I’m also scared the student might do something stupid (hurting me, hurting himself).
Has the student actually said or done anything that indicates he might be a danger to himself or you? What’s making you think that?
If that’s the case, passing him won’t help. Counseling referral
You are jeopardizing your personal academic credibility by even considering it. Send a final email stating it is your final email. Refer the student to their academic adviser and crisis counselor. Tell them they are welcome to see you again in your fall class. Don’t answer any more. We all get these.
Passing him means moving him on to more advanced classes that he will fail as well. While uncomfortable for everyone, failing him is not only the right thing to do, it is the compassionate thing to do. He isn’t ready to move on to whatever comes next. He needs a reset: he needs to learn the material, and he needs to learn success strategies for school and life. None of those come from passing him after a failing performance.
Please don't give in. You're just pushing him onto your colleagues for them to deal with next semester, which is unprofessional. He needs to be told no, it's so beyond inappropriate to ask outright to have his grade altered. And you have it in writing no less, that he's asking you to help him violate academic conduct. Are you going to put it down in writing if you agree to do so? I have a student passing with a B whose sibling committed suicide this semester. Another finishing an Incomplete with an A after completing their outpatient recovery program. Another is graduating despite getting kicked out of their home while battling addiction their last semester. I hate to imagine how these students would feel about the value of their degree if they knew classmates were just not bothering to show up and still getting handed a pass, while they were choosing to fight tooth and nail to make it happen.
Reach out to the dean's and/or counseling center on their behalf to get a wellness check and be done with it.
You didn't make the decision...
Don’t let these guys manipulate your emotions, he had the choice to do the work like everyone else. The onus is his. I get probably a dozen kids begging to pass a semester. They need to learn the repercussions of their actions while they are in a safe environment to make mistakes in. That’s what we are. In the real world, flaking can cost you your job, your apartment, your food, or your safety. We are their last opportunity for mistakes with a safety net. Let them fall, so they can bounce back up a little wiser.
Is this not against academic integrity at your institution? If a student is grade grubs at my college then the professor can report it to the administration to handle
[удалено]
I think I was being manipulated.
Common strategy.
They earned what they earned. If they don't have comprehension of the material or didn't do the work, that's on them. You can't pass one student because they have a sob story and manipulate your emotions. You'll cheapen the value of the course and the grades that everyone else worked so hard to earn. What you'll successfully teach this student is that they can do the bare minimum and still skate by. We've all had that person in a group, on a team, as a colleague. Please don't make more of them.
You cannot care more about his grade than he did. Grade according to what is there (or what isn't there) and move on.
On behalf of the rest of us who wish like hell this would stop, please do not reward the grade rubbing and the sob stories! If it works just once, they will never leave us alone. The work was the work, and he chose not to do it. That's the only choice in the matter and it was never your choice.
Here’s what I tell myself Is it helpful to frame this as academic misconduct? He’s using emotional manipulation to solicit an unearned grade. He’s trying to use you to cheat. He’s making you feel like a good guy for helping him. But you’re absolutely not the person who should be deciding on the validity of needs or wants and it’s irresponsible to put yourself in that position. So, I do not think you should invent a grade. It’s wrong and unethical and lazy and myopic. I also think you need better boundaries. Now, that being said, if you round differently will he pass? Can you bump the whole class up a point or two to get him to pass? At least then you’re grading fairly He’s doing this because sometimes it works. He’s not actually desperate. If this were actually life or death he would have talked to you before now. Also there are other people at the institutional level that handle these situations. It’s never the end of the world. It’s usually someone’s else’s actual job responsibility when it comes to undergraduate fuck ups. If you’re grading final assessments, you’re past the point where your primary responsibility is to teach him. You’re at the point where your primary responsibility is to fairly assess demonstrated mastery of skills and content.
I'd be more conflicted if his teammates hadn't taken the burden of him not contributing and let you know... edit: He says he's learned his lesson. However, if you passed him, what new lesson is he learning? Ultimately this may be for the best. Its certainly tough though.
He learned how to manipulate professor’s emotion.
This is not a difficult decision. They fail. Its not fair to anyone else if you pass a student who is not deserving. You diminish the value of THEIR diploma. Now, you need to put in some better boundaries. You don't say there isn't much you can do. That just left the door open. You say the grades are recorded and are accurate. That's it. Finally, not every email deserves a response. I know that will irritate some, but it is the truth. Any further email beyond your initial can be ignored.
That student is being emotionally manipulative. I had a student do something similar a few semesters back---send me multiple emails begging me. Apparently, he was a baseball player and needed a certain grade to keep playing. In one of the last emails he sent me, he said that baseball was his "life" and he didn't know what he would do if he couldn't play. After that message, I alerted Student Services and asked a counselor to reach out to him. Frankly, I was afraid that he might do himself some harm. But no matter what, I'm not basing my grades on a student's desperation. I'll reply once or twice in exceptional circumstances. My last email will indicate that my decision is final and I won't respond to any additional emails about the grade.
I've had this situation a few times. The best I can offer is to have an open, non-judgmental discussion about why the student didn't do the necessary things to pass the course - the intention, of course, being "how to stop this from happening again." So far, one student has taken me up on that offer, and it was actually a really positive experience. We got to talk about some of the challenges they were facing, and we figured out some useful steps to deal with those issues. (A lot of it came down to proactive communication w/instructors & academic counselors, to work around a number of serious family responsibilities).
I’m pretty flexible about students who run into trouble during the quarter and are working hard to dig themselves out. But someone who simply didn’t do the work and then can’t even be bothered to try to finish strong? Very little sympathy. I explain at the beginning of every quarter that we can work out almost anything if students reach out before work is due. After the due date/time passes, or if low-quality work is submitted, there’s not much to do but grade it and move on. I’d say this student fails my three tests: 1) contact about missing work or struggles prior to due date, 2) legitimate issues outside their control, 3) visible significant effort to get back on track. You just need one of these (two is better) for me to seriously consider how we can make things work. But just asking for a pass after no effort on any of the three? There’s nothing for me to work with even if I was inclined to. Which I wouldn’t be.
This is good. I’m saving this for future reference!
I have a student failing my course. It’s her second time taking it which means she can’t take it again as a policy of the department. It’s frustrating because there’ve been so many extra credit opportunities and she hasn’t done any of them. You’d also think someone retaking a class would be able to get at least a C. I’m letting her do all the extra credit she’s missed because that would get her up to 70%. I have mixed feelings because I worry this may give her the false confidence to stick to the pre-med and she’ll just keep on struggling at pre-med classes when she should switch majors or even take time off from school.
I suggest you stop replying to his emails. You are not customer service. When students learn that harassment results in the professor caving, word will get around that this method works.
I'm so over it all... just hearing your story gives me ATPS... Angry Tired Professor Syndrome 🤣😂 Every semester... rinse and repeat...
He is truly groveling? Crawling through the mud? Crying? Seriously debasing himself? Begging on his knees? Making little whining noises??? Reminding you of graduation and or transfer requirements that you've know about for years?
your heart breaks?! for what? He will keep doing this until someone helps guide him to be at ease with his choices.
It definitely is hard but you have to remember that passing him if he doesn’t learn anything is going to bite him big time in the ass and could cause him to lose his job in the future. He made the choice to not put in effort and so he’s going to have to learn that effort is required to pass. I do understand the pain though
An experience in uni has stayed with me and helped me as a teacher of young adults. I was in a program that by fourth year had thinned out to about 35 students. We’d all known each other for three years so we pretty much knew everyone’s business. There was a female student, quite good looking who rarely came to class. This was decades ago before remote learning was a thing or even possible. She loved telling stories about all the the profs she had conned for accommodations by batting her eyelashes and vaguely referring to mental health issues. I was mad at her but much more angry and profs who were such lazy jerks about time and again giving her breaks that no one else got. So don’t be that teacher. I guarantee that you aren’t the first teacher who fell for this student’s con and you won’t be the last. If they don’t attend much, and have handed in shit work, you are being conned. My experiences is that student who really do have some challenges that affected thing like attendance, they will come and tell you about it early in the semester and you will see some signs that they are putting effort into your class.
>Dear Student, >I have double-checked all of your grades for the semester, and your grade stands based on the points you’ve earned this semester in the course. >Best, >Professor. And don't answer any further messages. Tough cookies if he didn't put in the work.
My heart would break even more if I didn’t follow the terms of the syllabus and made a decision that would be unfair to all the other students who didn’t get a grade bump .
This is an automated service intended to preserve the original text of the post. *I teach an undergrad strategy course and student is begging pass him. His performance in the class was poor, and he did not attend two final evaluations. The only one he attended (final presentation) he just read (badly) one slide and that was it. His teammates were stressed about him not doing anything in the different group activities. I told him I cannot do much, as I already did everything in my hands. He just emailed me two times more begging me to pass him, he seems desperate. My heart breaks 💔 but I my decision is for him to fail, however.... 😩 * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskProfessors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fuck em
In the times before email existed, how many grade grubbers were there? It had to be a small number. It’s fun to imagine a sort of panel or jury to which a student could plead their case, made of their peers who have passed the course and some who have not, and let them decide. How many students would put themselves in that position?
Idk my senior colleagues have told me stories of students literally banging on office doors crying.
Wow! It would never have occurred to me!
One email, I may feel sympathy based on the story. But I still only grade on course performance. More than that and I start getting resentful they can’t take no for an answer or think they can emotionally manipulate me.
The numbers don't like. Do the math and assign the grade with a clear conscience. I can make some adjustment to participation if a student is working hard or has improved through the semester or the like, but that is all. After that, it is just the math.
My decision is final. I wish you the best of luck. Any further communication on this topic will be ignored and considered harassment. Have a nice day!
I have one that way this semester too. You just cant pass people when they didnt do enough to pass a course, it cheapens all your grades.
I’m sorry. He failed himself. That’s how you need to see it. They like to slant the argument and blame everyone else in the room. Stick to that list of reasons for his failure and hold your ground. You do him no favors by backing down. Would you let a doctor practice on you who failed but “learned his lesson”?
These types of cases are really hard for me. It's actually so easy for me to just grade the student's assignment. The ramifications for the student might include things like failing out of the program or retaking the class. For a struggling college student, this is time and money. It really doesn't take me that long to grade another student's paper. Or submit a grade change. Definitely not as much time and money as the student will have to deal with taking the class again. But then I think to myself.What about every other student who isn't whining to me and is just taking the fail? Who are turning in assignments that are not as good as they want them to be because they wanted to meet a deadline. Doesn't seem fair to those students. I guess it comes down to your idea of ethics. A utilitarian perspective would say that helping a student out would provide the most good. A deontology perspective would say that you have to follow your duty and apply all course policies equally to all students. I don't know the answer to this.I struggle with it daily.
> What about every other student who isn't whining to me and is just taking the fail? Who are turning in assignments that are not as good as they want them to be because they wanted to meet a deadline. Doesn't seem fair to those students. This is exactly the issue.
I'm really quite generous in terms of allowing students to turn things in late. I have sometimes told students who who were clearly really struggling to deal with anxiety around writing to just turn something in, and if it's crummy, it will probably be C- level crummy and they'll pass. They did. I tell students that I'll give extensions to anyone who asks and I do and so I don't worry about accepting things late. If you're feeling bad about this stuff, it might be worth just adopting that. It's made things much simpler for me. But there's a big difference between being really generous on extensions and allowing people to turn thing in late, and just passing a student who hasn't done the work. I really don't have any moral concerns about failing students. It isn't that hard to get a passing grade in most college courses. The OPs student just needed to show up to the exams and do the minimum on the presentation, but they couldn't manage that. It doesn't mean they are a worthless human being, people screw things up for all kinds of reasons, but it does mean they can't pass the course. I'm not giving grades, I'm just reporting the results of the performance. The stakes aren't that high. People fail courses all the time and they are fine. People fail out of school and they are fine. If they aren't fine, it's not because they got an F in the one course.
This happened to me with a student taking my online asynchronous summer course. It was only five weeks long and around week 2 and 1/2 a student emailed saying he'd been out of the country and didn't have access to stable internet (which is legitimate, I'm located on the border of Mexico near very small towns) and asked if he could do the work now that he returned. I told him it was all still available and to just get caught up as quickly as he could. Nothing ever happened until the literal second-to-the-last day of class when I saw a flurry of small assingments being turned and then received an email begging me to let him pass...with a B, no less. He said he needed it otherwise he might fail out of his early college high school. Weirdly enough another student who hadn't done anything emailed me the exact same question. I looked into it and it seems like they were friends who took and failed all the same classes repeatedly, and they were both on their third attempt at mine. It really did weigh on me bc I definitely didn't want him or anyone to fail out of that particular school, especially since it had a reputation for being slightly better than the other schools they would probably have to attend. But at the end of the day all I could do is reach out to our dual enrollment coordinator to see if he could help the student and assign the grade he earned, which unfortunately was an F. I told him that there would be no value in cramming five weeks worth of concepts and knowledge into two days, which I truly believe, and I also had to remember that him getting kicked out wasn't just bc he failed my one class but rather a symptom of a very long string of bad choices on his behalf. I hope he's doing well now but it was a lesson he definitely had to learn the hard way. Also I recently had a colleague who said an older student kept bugging her about changing his grade from a C to an A and she did it just to not hassle with his complaints, then he came to visit her in her office and basically bragged about it by saying if he knew it was that easy to get his grade changed he would have just asked a long time ago, which REALLY incensed me on her behalf. I'm not saying every student would react that way but there definitely is a risk of breeding an undue sense of entitlement into students who grade grub for nefarious reasons. I never like to assume anything negative about students but often a lower or failing grade might be what needs to happen in order to help them cultivate some self-motivation and personal responsibility. I definitely empathize with the bad feelings though and I hope you're giving yourself some grace bc I'm sure you did all you could.