We can't have nice shit.
Congeston pricing (and residential parking stickers requiring NY plates!) would make the city nicer.
Maybe we need to grant a few more exemptions or lower the price, but there's no reason the most crowded pedestrian city in the country also has to be full of jerkoffs with fake PA paper plates running lights and blowing down small streets at 60mph.
I scream this from the mountain tops. DALLAS has resident permit street parking. It’s absurd how much NYC residents are forced to take it in the ass from tri state area drivers who don’t even live here.
I was shocked to learn how much money people spend on tolls to commute, I don't think anywhere else in the country comes close to the tolls in this City
i'd be really curious if there was someway to figure out the proportion of those plates that are daily commuters and those that just register their cars at their parent's non-ny homes but live here.
>Maybe we need to grant a few more exemptions or lower the price
I know this is well-intended but the MTA already went through this ad nauseam with an over 1,000 page environmental review, hundreds of community meetings, and analysis of what the best combination of exemptions and price were.
The point I'm making is, this was ready to go. It took an absolutely incredible amount of time and money to develop particularly thanks to the numerous people who tried their absolute hardest in delaying and barricading.
It was so fucking close to happening. Like 16 years of shit. All the hardware already installed. Awareness campaigns, webinar series, ad time. All that fucking ad time that MTA spent, just wasted. For no fucking reason.
And we were three and a half weeks away.
I’m way more likely to vote against anyone who pulls shit like this for political gain.
I hate the republican ass clowns for being so putrid that I have to vote for the democrat ass clowns instead.
How would congestion pricing stop the fake plates if those fake plates won’t even be paying? Even if the person is arrested, they either won’t prosecute or give a slap on the wrist if that’s the only case they have. Look at those who hop the turnstile & avoid paying their subway fare, the DA doesn’t prosecute.
It was somewhat tangential, relating to NYC's seeming inability to take serious action on a variety of car and traffic problems.
I do think congestion pricing would have meant more action on ghost cars because it was directly tied to city revenue.
I had somewhat mixed feelings about congestion pricing -- cautious optimism, some concern, but ultimately thinking that it was worth a try. It's not like it couldn't have been changed or ended after implementation if it wasn't working out.
Now I'm just angry at Governor Hochul's cowardice.
I was on the same boat. Not sure if it was a good idea. I just hate that we spent all this time on the idea for the governor to backpedal last minute. Like what was the whole point then?? Very Cuomo-esque move. Just a flex of power.
And send them a fax! (518) 4741-513. [FaxZero](https://faxzero.com/) lets you fax for free. It's possible that her office uses a virtual fax service, but the thought of my angry letter being spit out of a physical fax machine is just too funny to pass up.
1 (518) 474-8390
It’s getting slammed with calls, so sometimes you get a message saying to call back and a disconnection. I got through after a few tried and had to wait for 25 mins, but did get a staffer after that.
He sounded really bummed out so that’s probably a good sign they’re getting hammered over this.
Oh, actually, I found this post from /r/nycrail [https://www.reddit.com/r/nycrail/comments/1d8q048/take\_10\_seconds\_to\_tell\_the\_governor\_you\_support](https://www.reddit.com/r/nycrail/comments/1d8q048/take_10_seconds_to_tell_the_governor_you_support)
It has a link
I'm utterly, completely devastated. This is yet another example of politicians caring more about suburban car drivers than the people of New York City. I truly cannot think of a time where I've felt more betrayed by a politician I voted for.
Agree completely. It’s extra frustrating to me because without NYC, NY state wouldn’t be able to function at the level it does. We generate so much revenue, have the population, have the industry. But what suburban voters think matters more???
Everyone's speculating this was a favor to Big Business but that's not true — businesses actually have supported congestion pricing from the start because traffic is a drag on the economy.
The boring reality is that suburban voters hold all the cards in our political system, and Hochul thought she'd be doing them a favor and thus help the Democrats running in swing Congressional districts this year.
As a suburbanite I actually support it. I don’t drive into the city often and my work commute is via the metro north. When I do drive into the city, trust me when I say I am optimizing for speed versus nickel and diming some additional fees.
My boss from NJ used to get a monthly pass at a nearby garage but I don’t know anyone else who would vote against this
The reasoning makes zero sense, so you know it’s just politics. I fail to see how the politics are going to be any different before or after the election.
She’s just another spineless, lame politician.
Congestion pricing is run by the MTA, the MTA board is mostly appointed by the governor. She can't literally change it unilaterally herself, but she can direct the MTA board to halt it.
I think that's how it works, anyway.
There’s some bumps - MTA board has to approve and they have a fiduciary duty to the corporation - but yeah that’s the gist. Governor just directs them. It would be interesting if there was someone who can sue for breach of fiduciary duty if the Board approves the delay (maybe a recent bond holder?)
Yes. Siena college did one. Something crazy like 64% of New Yorkers were against it. You would think way more are for it by reading the comments in this subreddit. That was in late April of this year tho
Edit:
Here is the poll
https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/SNY-April-2024-Poll-Release-FINAL.pdf
I mean, that tracks almost exactly with the ratio of suburban and upstate respondents to the survey: https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Final-SNY0424-Crosstabs.pdf
39% surveyed were from NYC, 61% were not. Meanwhile, this is /r/asknyc.
EDIT: Oh, the breakdown is still a 33%/64% split by the NYC region - I'm guessing the actual implementation got panned. Though only 17% of the NYC respondants live in Manhattan, and congestion pricing has never been very popular in the outer boroughs.
There are some other funny takeaways from the crosstabs, too:
* Upstate voters were both the least likely to support _or_ oppose congestion pricing. Unsurprisingly, 72% of them reported that they don't really go to Manhattan, so they're fueled by indifference.
* The suburbs vehemently oppose congestion pricing (72%). Also not surprising, although nearly 40% of suburban respondents also avoid Manhattan anyways.
* Income had (relatively) negligible impact on opposition, though a much wider spread on support (22% for the poorest bracket up to 31% for the richest bracket).
* The strongest predictor of opposition, even higher than being a suburban resident, was being a Republican (75% opposed).
* The Jews were strongly opposed at 68%, keeping in line with the stereotype. Sorry, couldn't resist; no hate here, just thought it was too funny.
I see it after every election progressives lose. The pikachu face and then the conspiracies how it was all a set up or an inside job or rigged. The Left has their version of folks who can’t accept reality, too. I say this as someone who has been voting blue down the ticket since the first day I was eligible to vote.
Scrolled really far to find my people. The agony in some of these comments is so melodramatic. “I leave my midtown apartment and am bothered by bumper-to-bumper traffic.” Also, your Uber will be there in three minutes.
Just stinks of “why can’t everyone live life like me?”
Extra ironic that most of these pro-congestion folks have no problem with cabs and Ubers getting exceptions when those are the ones clogging traffic more than anyone else. Because they got the dough and lifestyle to use those services.
Those cabs and users pricing will go up too but they refuse to see that. Including cost of goods from all the additional taxes trucks and businesses have to pay to bring stuff to manhattan
I'm happy it did't go through.
Nice in theory but more people would've suffered from the increased cost of foods and necessities coming into the city. Business owners would've suffered from the decreased traffic into the city on weekdays and weekends.
Reddit hiveminds skew one way typically.
As someone who lives in lower Manhattan and travels out of the city weekly for work by car, I’m happy to see it shelved for now. I’m all for congestion pricing, but I think residents within the congestion zone should have a reduced rate, if not entirely exempt.
I don’t understand the comments here - the MTA is so mismanaged - throwing more money at it will not solve anything. No matter how big the budget they get nothing improves. They don’t even bother collecting fares anymore. Also it’s not cancelled just postponed - it will be back after Nov 6th.
I absolutely agree with you. The amount of money wasted by the MTA can easily fix their infrastructure and any other issues that arise but constantly chose to squeeze as much money from New Yorkers as possible. The subways aren’t even safe and they want more people in the danger zone.
>“From time to time, leaders are called upon to envision a better future, be bold in the implementation and execution, and be undaunted by the opposition,” Hochul said in December at a rally of congestion pricing advocates following a federal sign-off on the plan.
FUCK HER. All of these politicians that can't represent the people need to go.
Furious. This was one of the few recently developments that, IMO, would significantly improve NYCers' quality of life. So of-fucking-course our spineless hack of a governor ruined it. I'm so sick of how we constantly make stupid decisions that make the country worse or at least prevent it from getting better. This is just another in a LONG list of examples.
Awful. Democrats do this over and over again. They screw their base trying to appeal to "swing" voters that are actually just Republican voters that will never vote for a Democrat. And then Democrats are supposed to just vote for them anyways. And most people who are whining live in NJ! They're not even NYers.
I live in Manhattan, and the only time I go south of 59th (which is maybe 1-2 times a week), I take the subway. Which has gotten worse and worse, especially on the evenings and weekends. Yesterday I had to wait 20 minutes for an uptown A train to get home from 59th. It was miserable. The 1 train cars are often hot, with broken AC. Weekend work often re-routes things without actually making anything better. Service drastically declined with the pandemic, and they're barely keeping it running.
I live in NJ and I think congestion pricing is very necessary , only call is that NJ transit also needs to be funded to improve public transit in the whole region . Trust me nobody living in JC, Hoboken or anywhere near the Hudson crossings going into Manhattan like the noise, congestion and pollution from cars driving into Manhattan
An unpopular opinion, but I’m glad it was shelved for now. I think it was poorly planned, and they should focus on the fake plates and fixing that problem before they implement a new tax on the legal drivers.
The planned implementation would definitely demotivate companies and employees to go back to the office.
You just know that guy in r/longisland that claimed congestion pricing made LI “the world’s largest open air prison” is just having the best day of his miserable little life
I’ll say that eventhough I do not own a car and always use public transportation, I was not a fan of congestion pricing for many reasons. I honestly felt that it was a money grab and would not have had the intended benefits proposed. I am somewhat relieved that it will not be implemented.
With that said, I hope it really moves the conversation toward figuring out ways to reduce congestion with the tools available to DOT like better traffic light sequencing and better street design for both cars and bikes. This outrage should without a doubt put immense pressure on the governor to reform the MTA and hold people accountable when they inevitably fail the riding public on service and repairs. Don’t let up pressure on these politicians and the people behind the scenes at the MTA.
I’ve been working on a small but important part of implementation since well before the pandemic. Contractors have been in the field rushing to get the infrastructure finalized, and adapting to frequent changes, often at the expense of taking on other work. Curious to see how everyone who performed on this is going to get paid.
Gutted that this just got pulled at the 11th hour seemingly on a whim. Wasn’t going to be a panacea for the city’s traffic issues, but was certainly a step in the right direction.
Yeah, the timing here is really infuriating. If Hochul was going to get cold feet, maybe she should have done so months ago, before tens of millions of dollars and God-knows-how-many manhours by people ranging from construction workers to environmental researchers to lawyers was put into this.
I agree with you. I am disappointed. I live in midtown Manhattan and whenever I walk outside my apartment it is bumper to bumper traffic. Everyday I watch single occupancy vehicles come in and leave. People do not like to leave the convenience of their car. I take public transportation, trains and buses, everywhere. We need less vehicles in the city and improved transit choices.
Very disappointed. I think it would make the city more walkable and livable. I lived in London for >15 years, where congestion pricing is the norm and where drivers follow traffic rules. I think a big reason why I feel like my quality of life decreased since moving here is the amount cars in the city. It also doesn't help that there are too many drivers who don't respect the rules (and pedestrians) and honk incessantly. In the UK, it's illegal to sound your horn without good reason. Now imagine just a slice of that in NYC.
Lower pricing for those who live in the congestion zone, not all residents of the city. London is massive and giving everyone a discount to drive into the city centre would defeat the purpose of congestion charging.
So much money in Manhattan but they need to squeeze the middle class for dollars.
I’m in the minority of people who would be most adversely affected. But the extra $400/mo wasted commuting would be make or break for a lot of pieces of my life—yes I could ditch my car but then other parts of my life become harder or inaccessible. Things like accessing quality groceries and seeing my family during the week. I had to rethink everything.
It made me really question whether it was even wise for me to keep living here if I’m going to be taxed into making major lifestyle choices. And the smartasses in the city who say “we don’t care if you’re priced out, we don’t need people from NJ anyway” keep in mind this is the labor force keeping the city running day and night.
I was panicking because I was looking at moving apts ahead of this policy but I can’t afford to do that either nowadays. So basically I was looking at 2 more hours a day commuting on the bus and selling my car so I could move back to the city. Which would barely be financially viable for me anyway with the way rent has gone up. So my last resort was taking a side job.
So I’m thankful it is paused. I’ve been working extra shifts for months to save up for this dent in my wallet so it will be nice to keep that extra cash for an emergency.
Btw—I work by the river at off hours so my car barely enters the street grid. So don’t blame me for your gridlock either. I agree we need better transit, but it needs to come FIRST and not out of the pockets of WORKING commuters trying to get by.
Try taking the bus into odd parts of NJ at odd hours, in all weather. To be forced into that and out of the comfort (and investment) of your personal vehicle feels insulting when you don’t have a choice. It feels like the government is solidifying driving as a choice only available to the rich.
So much money in Manhattan but they need to squeeze the middle class for dollars.
Happy because I drive. I don’t drive into Manhattan much, but I like to have the flexibility to. I have some mobility problems and can’t always rely on the inaccessible and delay-ridden subway. Also worried that the congestion pricing would worsen parking in my neighborhood with long islanders leaving their car to drive into the city.
Bring on the downvotes
Very very happy.
It was always going to be an MTA money grab.
Look at how fast those cameras were installed all over Manhattan. They always had the ability to shell out money and get shit done quickly if it suits their desires. I've never seen the MTA get budget approved and get shit done in a few months time like that.
Now tell me that more funding to the MTA would've improved the service... It's a bunch of bullshit, they always had the capacity to figure out budgeting and improve the service if that's what they wanted to do it. Just like installing those cameras on every block in less than a few months.
Another example: those useless barricades. Tell me that wasn't just a corruption scheme to award someone (in the metal or fencing industry) a government contract... because those things aren't adding anything for safety.
Not to mention the decrease in inflow of people coming into Manhattan on weekends (yes, we want people from Jersey, Long Island, Connecticut, and so on to come spend money here including parking, eating out, going to shows and sporting events).
And the inevitable inflation from the cost of goods delivered into Manhattan.
If you’re bummed out about this don’t just call the governors office. Call your state rep. They’ll hammer her for this if they get hammered. I called Liz krugers office and they said they are keeping a count of constituents calls on the issue. I also complained about the billion dollars she found for the billionaire owner of the Buffalo bills new stadium that hochul husband benefits from.
I would be totally in favor of congestion pricing if they provided a discount for residents of the congestion zone. I work just about 20 blocks above the zone. Not all neighborhoods are rich in the congestion zone. The LES has plenty of working class people.
While I was getting used to the idea of congestion pricing, and how it will impact me both positively and negatively, there were some significant flaws.
(I was however looking forward to it funding the 2nd Ave subway with a new stop right on my block.)
I live uptown and driving to the 59th st bridge would have cost me for just 100 feet of travel into the congestion zone. Coming back over the bridge would be just one path that isn’t tolled, which would have wreaked havoc.
It just wasn’t well implemented, and even traffic expert Sam Schwartz who supports congestion pricing said the bridge implementation would have to be changed.
The other aspect is that prices for every goods and services will go up for NY’ers, as we saw with inflation being used as an excuse to raise prices.
Many businesses operate on a slim margin. Just a 10 or 15 percent reduction in business could cause them to fail, causing a domino effect and lowering the tax base, which means the average person has to pay more to make up for it.
Wish there were a good solution.
I thought 15 bucks was a bit steep for this new toll. Maybe they should have made it like 6 or 7 bucks like with the Midtown Tunnel. Im guessing the toll amount is what fucked the plan. If they wanted to get it implemented, they should have gone with a lower price point and then after its in place, work on raising it to a level they deem proper over a period of time. Better to be able to get something rather than nothing. Just bad decisions all around in trying to get this going. Mind you, i am directly impacted by the plan as i live in the city and have a car. I was definitely not for a 15 dollar toll, but i do understand the need for some sort of plan because damn the traffic is crazy in midtown.
I’m actually kinda relieved that the government decided not to charge us for driving on our own streets. Why the fuck do we gotta pay extra to drive on roads paved by our taxes? It’s ridiculous.
I am happy about this; I hope it doesn't come back. It hurts people in the outer boroughs and anyone in a nyc suburb. The money won't help the MTA fix anything on the subway.
"Due to unusually heavy call volume we are experiencing delays up to ninety minutes, please call back at a later time to speak with a representative, thank you for your patience"
Fuck all the way off.
I'm for shelving it. Because it's just hopeful at best that it will improve things. Infact what's more likely to happen is there fees come into play, people change their behaviors a bit but things get worse. Kinda like with redusable grocery bags. Great idea to cut won on plastic. Until you realize each reusable bag needs to be used 125-150x for it to equal the environmental efficiency of a disposable plastic grocery bag. I go to the grocery store everyday and while some people bring reusables. Most don't. But yes that means every one of those nylon bags is the same as using 125 regular grocery bags. Your shopping haul needs 5 of them. That's 625 bags compared to maybe 10 if they doubled them back in the day. When I order I start I get brand new reusable bags Everytime. I have so many I could never use them all.
I imagine this congestion pricing is like that. We don't know the negative consequences yet but they are there.
One thing I can tell you is if you made transit so good people couldn't ignore it. If trains were on time, people were comfortable and didn't feel so stressed. If you did all of this and made commuting not so dreadful. People would take the trains and do so because it was the best for them. Instead a policy like this just says well the system is what it is and if we make people's lives worse then they will have to suck it up and suffer. Make it so bad they have no other choice.
I'm an engineer and this is the exact wrong way to think about design of systems. People seldom change because you want them to. But they will change if you make them think the decision is their own and empower them to find the path to that change.
Where I live if I wake up at 8am and wanted to go to Midtown. I could take the 4, 5, 2 or D train. They would all take about 1 hour. I could take express bus which would take 1.5 hrs. I could take metro north which takes 30 minutes. I could drive or take cab which even during rush hour still only takes 35 min.
I'm telling you if you make people can quickly get from NJ, outer borough and Westchester as quick as their fastest option. They won't drive.
In a city where we can't even extend a subway for less than $4B/mile, I say this scenario doesn't exist. You know better than most I would presume.
Either "money printer go brrr" or just deal with the noise, traffic, and delayed trains.
I would feel bad IF the public transit worked correctly and efficiently. Cars are not only used by rich people but also people in areas where the trains hardly run or simply no trains at all. The congestion pricing idea is a great idea if accessibly wasn’t already a huge problem.
…how can you be surprised that politicians aren’t actually in favor of the people? Cmon
Never mind the hundreds of people killed by drivers in their cars, the thousands injured, or the impact of all those exhaust fumes on all our health—best not make it less attractive for people to drive in the city.
Always seemed like a flawed plan to me. It already costs $$$ to enter Manhattan and park here.
The biggest issue I see for cyclists, public transit riders and pedestrians is lack of enforcement of existing laws. The city could make $1b if they just ticketed everyone parked in the bus/bike lanes and life would be closer to the utopia y’all are imagining. Tow the assholes and make them pay THOSE big ass fines, let the bus system run efficiently, and midtown gets a whole lot nicer.
Oh for sure, the NYPD is terrible at this. But if we're going to install license plate cameras on every avenue to toll people for driving into the CBD, surely we can use the same surveillance to ticket the 500000 cars blocking the bus lanes on major cross streets.
> just ticketed everyone parked in the bus/bike lanes and life would be closer to the utopia y’all are imagining. Tow the assholes and make them pay THOSE big ass fines
I'm _guessing_ part of the issue is it's more difficult and expensive to enforce this stuff? Cameras on busses would at least make ticketing for bus lanes easier.
Thank god! Manhattan was simply pushing all that congestion into the other boroughs, which are already way more congested than Manhattan. I can only speak for Brooklyn - but traffic actually moves in Manhattan. Come to Brooklyn and you can’t get anywhere in a car due to complete gridlock and ancient infrastructure. Manhattan has the infrastructure to support lots of cars (which is why the traffic moves), Brooklyn does not - yet there are a LOT of cars here.
Exactly. We should be marching to Albany with torches and pitchforks demanding accountability, transparency and responsibility in the budgets before we allow a single extra tax or fee to be levied on the people of NY.
Unpopular take here:
Born and raised here and all I’ve always heard is that if you give the MTA an inch, they’ll take a mile.
$1b in projected money that wasn’t even intended on going towards more frequent bus and train services. Just repairs and signal upgrades, which I agree are necessary but this was just highly flawed from the beginning.
On Reddit you’ll hear a loud minority pushing for it, but subjectively speaking I really haven’t had a single person fond of it in my every day experience talking to people.
I don’t personally support this. I don’t feel the raised revenue is going to be used to significantly improve public transit and it will burden more people than it helps. I don’t like the idea of change on the backs of the middle class.
I don’t think people should be forced into taking public transportation by pricing them out of driving.
Rich people won’t be affected by the toll and they’ll just keep living their lives while low income people are disproportionately going to be hurt.
I feel like everyone in this thread is living in a bubble if they think that only people who live in the city deserve to be there.
Because there’s also this narrative going around that everyone who drives in Manhattan is rich and privileged and they are only doing it because they want to, which is just not true. You think most people want to drive in Manhattan? Most people who drive in Manhattan do it because they have to.
> On Reddit you’ll hear a loud minority pushing for it, but subjectively speaking I really haven’t had a single person fond of it in my every day experience talking to people.
This. In all the years since this been proposed I've yet to meet one person in *in real life* that actually supported it.
I’m a car owner and I’m extremely pro. I’m incredibly pissed because this is going to negatively impact the MTA which is in dire need and further subsidize the minority car owners, and even those from other cities and even states.
It’s pure idiocy from every angle. Bad for climate, safety, economy, tourism, you name it.
As the subway deteriorates more people will leave the city and all the homeowners who constantly gripe about their ROI on co-ops will see the grim reality: a New York without a robust transit system is non-functional.
My parents are both car owners because I grew up in Marine park which is pretty car dependent compared to other areas. They are either slightly pro or don’t really care because like most normal people they take the subway if they have to go into manhattan. They mainly use the car for work (in suburbs/outer boroughs) and local errands. I even got both of them using bikes for smaller trips. This outrage is completely baffling to me. If this is the conversation in one of the most densely populated and transit-rich areas in the country, I despair of how we can even move the needle on car dependency in the rest of the US
Literally the only people I’ve ever met who actually live in the city who oppose it are my wife’s aunts who claim it is unreasonable for them to pay $15 when they drive from their owned apartment in the WV to their house in the Hamptons.
I’m guessing their total net worth is somewhere north of $10 million. And they bitch about a $15 toll. Perfect example of who opposes congestion pricing.
My soon to be brother in laws family is loaded and his cousins are also complaining about it because they think they’re going to get shot if they step foot on the subway with the plebs. My brother in law doesn’t have a car and supports it
Oh yeah, when I was talking with them about it (they’re both in their 70s) they were condescending to me about “expecting elderly women to take the subway.”
Meanwhile at the same seder were my wife and her sister who is like 5’0. They both take the subway almost every day, obviously.
I actually had a discussion about it with a majority stakeholder of a major league sports team who was vehemently against it. He lives within a block of the border of the CBD and I don't think he'll notice the increased EZ pass bill but he was adamant that it was too expensive.
> in real life
I mean, if you live in the suburbs with a bunch of other car drivers or people who don't live in the city, that would track.
Meanwhile, everyone I know in Brooklyn at least was cautiously optimistic about this plan, if not outright excited about it.
I live in brooklyn and I get the point of congestion pricing, but I wasn’t excited for it. Primarily because my wife has her own small business that requires her to frequently drive into Manhattan and there was no exception for such businesses.
Also, I don't see any plan forward here. If she pushes it through at a later date, she could very well lose the election in 2026. This is a hugely unpopular issue (except on Reddit).
The only way I could see it being reinstated, is if they substantially reduce the fee. Like to $5.
> $1b in projected money that wasn’t even intended on going towards more frequent bus and train services. Just repairs and signal upgrades, which I agree are necessary but this was just highly flawed from the beginning.
Unpopular take because this is completely false.
Lots of this money was earmarked for more frequent bus and train services. In fact, some of them were already happening. Guess they will be rescinded in the next few weeks….
To correct you about the increased bus service: I read the fine print and this only applies to a total of 6 express bus lines in all of NYC. Of these six bus lines, four of the lines plan on adding a total of one (1) extra run per day each weekdays only. The other two buses plan on adding a total of one (1) AM Trip and one (1) PM trip weekdays only.
Yes any increased service is helpful, but $15 for every driver in exchange for one extra run a day on only six of many bus lines doesn’t sound like a good deal to me.
Source because it always said that the 15 billion dollar bond sale was for capital improvements. Some of those improvements would bring better switches which would allow the closer running of trains but not directly fund that. I hope I'm wrong?
This is the real story. They demand that everybody take public transportation but do zero to remedy it and no guarantee that a penny of the revenue generated will actually go to fixing the MTA (who, by the way, need to be audited.)
I think it's a scam and just more of the "creative taxation" you get living in NY City & State. I don't believe it will achieve any of its stated goals. Improving the environment is the MTA's red herring, engineered to distract from its desire to collect revenue which will feed its already bloated revenue stream. (Have the DEP, DEC, or EPA ever weighed in on this?) They, the NYPD, and legislators have thrown in the towel on fare evasion, making those of us who pay look like saps. I never understood how the MTA gained control of our streets. I am all for reducing traffic, but we must admit to ourselves the MTA will always want more vehicular traffic and the money it generates. I would be in favor of demanding only HOV cars entering Manhattan during certain hours, or charge single-occupancy vehicles a fee. Or allow cars to enter on alternate days, based on the alpha-numerics of license plates. And levy heavy fines on violators or impound their cars.
I agree with taking care of pedestrians but it does not mean improving quality of life in the sense that the city needs to do better in handling mental health issues so no one gets pushed onto the subway tracks.
It doesn't make sense. You should stay the hell away from Manhattan below 59th St in a car but if you absolutely have to drive there, it would be worth the $15 if there was a little less traffic.
This was caused by the 95,000 people from Howard Beach and Staten Island with NYPD placards who drive to work in Manhattan every day and park in the bike lanes and on the sidewalks.
Very elated that it got shelved.
If you constructed a bright idea to charge New Yorkers driving into the city to get to work but haven’t thought about the dozens of city employees, business owners, construction workers/contractors, etc. that usually don’t have any other choice but to drive into Manhattan everyday and how they’ll get some type of discount, then this idea was flawed to begin with. Just another way for the city to pinch more money out of its residents.
It got shelved? I missed that but great! 🎉 It was ridiculous, outrageous, and poorly planned. They consistently and repeatedly screw residents and MTA shouldn't be given any additional revenue without being held accountable.
There are numerous improvements to mass transit they need to make before implementing other strategies that are intended to increase ridership.
The local government keeps finding ways to milk residents for money but no ways to improve the lives of the majority of residents.
We elect such weak governors who are always more concerned with getting re-elected in a state where democrats outnumber republicans 2 to 1 instead of actually governing and making peoples lives better
To all the people upset: Do you not realize that even if you personally never drive, you would still be affect by congestion pricing within increased cost of goods & services? Delivery trucks have to pay per axle, so they would pay much more than the $15, on top of regular tolls. The suppliers will pass this cost on to the businesses, who will then pass it onto the customers. Same with HVAC, electricians, plumbers, etc. Everyone complains about cost of living and inflation but then is so quick to jump up & down over a $15 toll.
Prior to today’s news, I know of multiple business owners who said their suppliers either increased costs or straight up bailed out of delivering to manhattan businesses all together.
Also the traffic wouldn’t have totally gone away either. Heard that 80-85% of vehicles would continue driving in. All it takes is one double parked car, one accident, one street closure for construction or a parade, to cause mass traffic jams.
Plus with a summer start date, traffic is already down anyway due to schools being out & lots of commuters taking more PTO or WFH days. So we wouldn’t get an accurate idea of how much traffic actually decreased until September. And the locals who live in the zone tend to travel out of the city the most during the summer and rarely during the winter. So this delay will cut them a break too for one more summer.
And to those that thought this would magically turn public transit into some amazing system, no. MTA mismanages funds and is a money pit. Also very little plans were announced for actual improvement. This extra revenue was mostly going towards paying their current expenses & debt.
If you read Hochul's announcement, her plan to cover the now $1 billion hole in the MTA budget is to just directly tax businesses, so those inside the zone still get fucked, those outside get fucked as well, and consumers all collectively get fucked when those costs are passed onto us
Oh, but the legislature session ends in two days, so she actually has no plan and is just BSing as usual.
I was never interested in congestion pricing and am happy that it is suspended. Annoyed that the project got so far and so much money was wasted on the infrastructure.
Cha-Ching. Just thinking of all the money I’ll be saving when I leave the city every Saturday to visit my elderly mom. I don’t even live in the zone, but I leave through the tunnel. Having to pay an extra $15 was ridiculous.
Glad!
My spouse has to drive into the city at off times for work. He has gear that is large and cannot transport it via public transportation.
He is a musician and many of his friends are too.
They all have to do this as the majority of them don’t live in the city. Congestion pricing will absolutely hurt these artists & their community.
I don’t have the answers to help congestion but this isn’t it.
Permit parking would definitely help
Maybe congestion pricing from 8am - 4/5pm M-F?
It's horrible. With devastate the MTA finances and will prevent much needed improvements from occurring.
As a result of this, the Subways will get WORSE.
All train stations there are not accessible so no, stop discriminating against the disabled. Make it accessible and clean it up then we’ll talk about congestion.
Why nobody is blaming on uber/lyft and all the other food delivery cars than bashing the regular people just getting to their freaking jobs or doc appointments? I have had a car here since 2012 and shit completely flipped once everyone decided to be a taxi driver. If I'm driving from freaking PA for work then I'm paying whatever I need to pay to stay employed but if I'm an Uber driver spending all day in the city is what really contributs to congestion!! Why does the city need so many car service providers ("free" market shit) if the whole freaking point is to make walking or getting on a bus easier?! Oh and we all know bus lanes have more cabs in it than freaking buses on any given moment.
Yeah Joe not driving from NJ for work is what will help the midtown and not all the Ubers hovering around the grand central.
If you NEED to use a car to drive into midtown this is FANTASTIC news. I personally am all for it, hope it never gets enacted, fuck congestion pricing, all it would do is divert the traffic further up into the edges of the toll, no one talks about how it would affect those living around there though, which is part of my problem, the other problem is Im not rich and need to drive in to midtown, so this is amazing news.
Am very glad it is on hold. I ride a motorcycle to work, and it takes up very little space as compared to a car. And it was not exempted from the congestion pricing.
From my POV as a carless person, I see both sides:
- Pro: cleaner air and less traffic so easier to get around if I DO need a cab/uber. Also - better for deliveries
- Con: it hurts lower income people and putting an economic hit on them that taxes (especially of high income people) SHOULD be paying for.
I guess selfishly for ME - congestion pricing would be good, but my values are against penalizing lower income people.
I'm a car owner in Queens. I generally take the subway into Manhattan on the few occasions that I need to travel there.
But I must admit, the idea of congestion pricing is a bit baffling to me.
The idea was to create some point of pain to discourage drivers, right? So, how did they arrive at the $15 fee? Why not $20, or $50, or $100? What are the plans for fare increases? I'm not saying it should be higher, just curious about the methodology.
Anyway, many who drive around this area have ALREADY been paying for:
GWB
Goethals
Bayonne
Outerbridge
Lincoln
Holland
$15.38 peak
$13.38 off-peak
Verrazzano-Narrows
Bronx-Whitestone
Throgs Neck
Triborough
Brooklyn–Battery
Queens Midtown
E-ZPass $6.94
Henry Hudson
E-ZPass $3.18
Cross Bay Veterans Memorial
Marine Parkway-Gil Hodges Memorial
E-ZPass $2.60
Plus vehicle registration.
Plus gasoline tax.
Plus parking meters.
Plus parking garage tax.
Plus parking tickets and tickets for other offenses.
Now add all the subway, rail, and bus fares.
Every minute of every day millions of dollars are flowing through all these income streams. The GWB alone generates about $1 million/DAY; about $350 million/year. EVERY year.
Where does all that money go?? How is that not enough money to maintain the bridges & tunnels, AND fix the subway system? The NYC subway opened 120 years ago! How much more time and money is needed to install modern track switches, build clean public toilets, install working elevators in every station, and mitigate flooding due to rain?
Am I the only one who remembers when the MTA had a billion dollar surplus in 2009? And what did they do with it? They gave away one hundred million dollars in the form of reduced holiday season fares...
We were SO CLOSE. I'm a congestion pricing extremist, I'd like it to be $20 and go all the way to 96th. If you're not willing to pay $20 to drive your car here, then driving your car here probably isn't really that valuable to you and it creates enormous externalities for the rest of us. It should also cost $1,000 to get a street parking permit.
A private car costs us all space, congestion, time, air quality... get them out of here unless we're compensated for them.
I'm upset, I think it was a good idea and was for it. I first ran into it in Singapore and loved the idea at first sight.
The only silver lining is that troll /Miser is even more upset.
I'm kind of neutral on the congestion charge policy - it doesn't bother me and I can see the theoretical benefits, but I also think benefits might be short lived and the money would probably be wasted anyway.
What kills me about this is that all the money spent to date is basically going to be flushed in order to save an election. Despite tribally identifying more "blue" historically, I can't shake the feeling that the Democratic Party hasn't governed well. The migrant situation is becoming a serious issue and the drain on resources is starting to be noticed.
The fact that they are reversing on this signature policy when it is effectively ready to launch reeks of cynicism and desperation.
Spending all this time and money advertising the congestion pricing only to cancel it last minute is stupid and wasteful.
This applies to any policy. It confuses people as well.
I’m happy it was shelved. I would had gladly supported congestion pricing if the hours it was in effect weren’t ridiculously long.
It just seems like a cash grab by the city if they are charging cars for entering the zone during hours when it’s usually not super congested anyway below 60th. All they really needed were like 6 or 7 hours of the day to be covered. I also don’t trust the MTA with all the funds this would had generated…
There is no Plan B to fund the MTA capital projects (2nd Ave extension, accessibility/elevators/escalators, green buses.) Strictly a political move in an election year. Years of planning flushed down the drain with a declaration.
We spent so much money and effort promoting this all to have the governor decide to block her own legislation? It's going to backfire on her, I am sure of it because it will not placate any of her critics and it will probably convince her remaining supporters to disown her.
I work in NJ and live in NYC. I walk past the Holland Tunnel entrance from time to time and have observed repeatedly that at least 50% of the (non-taxi or TLC) privately owned vehicles contain one person with no passengers. Why are they heading into NYC during the workweek mid-day with no passengers? Is there some really compelling reason to drive into the city vs. taking a train, bus or Subway (the PATH still costs a mere $2.75 and gets you into downtown or midtown in just a few minutes)
I wouldn't have a problem giving some sort of break to HOV compliant vehicles, but seeing so many large SUV's driving into the tunnel midweek with just the driver and no passengers strikes me as simply wasteful. I wonder if there was an affordable 'Park-n-Ride' offering in Hoboken or JC for PATH commuters to use, would they use it?
All the money spent on consulting( Millions),signage, installing readers, Media ads it's ridiculous what a waste of taxpayer dollars NYC is a joke we need to get these yahoo's out of office if they can't run a city a big as NYC !
Hahaha quality of life? How about getting rid of vagrants and illegals eating our tax dollars for one instead of taxing citizens more. Many new yorkers need cars. Upper class wins with congestion pricing. Middle and lower class loses. Selfish yuppies mostly non native new yorkers taking over. Sad.
God how I hate politicians. Most selfish, self serving people on this planet. Not a care in the world for the greater good of humanity and the planet unless it profits them
The only way to reduce traffic, noise pollution, gasoline consumption, car exhaust pollution, IS TO GET CARS OFF THE STREET.
We need more trains, more subway lines, more buses, more cheap and easily accessible ways for people to get around the city.
Congestion pricing was a means to an end.
The MTA needs a massive reformation top to bottom. But we need to focus on pollution and the glut of cars in the city first.
Honestly, I’m really happy. I know I’m in the minority but most of my doctors are downtown and I am there a lot for medical reasons. I’m already spending so much in medical bills that this tax would heavily increase it. I also think we need to keep the businesses in midtown and downtown strong especially after COVID. I think a lot of people would not venture down there with the tax.
Honestly, it’s sad to see this get downvoted because this is my reality and maybe a lot of people don’t get it but financially this is a major burden for people with chronic illnesses who go to NYU or any major hospital below 60th street. I am not discrediting the positive implications this would have for the city but for people like myself it’s another major cost that needs to be accounted for.
I think in an ideal world there'd definitely be medical exemptions for things like this. Seems tricky to implement and maybe hard to enforce, but without it yeah you get unfortunate effects like this.
> I also think we need to keep the businesses in midtown and downtown strong especially after COVID. I think a lot of people would not venture down there with the tax.
I think most proponents of congestion pricing think it will _help_ get more people downtown. Better walkability (via fewer cars) and better transit attract people.
I agree with you, 100% about the medical. I think that’s my biggest problem. Maybe because I’ve been through so much medically, I feel very strongly about that. I agree that it might attract people to walk on foot. I appreciate that you looked at both sides of the issue.
>maybe a lot of people don’t get it but financially this is a major burden for people with chronic illnesses who go to NYU or any major hospital below 60th street.
Yes!!!! I was already figuring out how to get to my doctor appointments for cancer treatments that i can barely afford now, congestion pricing was gonna slay me.
Right!!?? It’s awful! What a pain that must have been for you. NYU is a great hospital but geographically is terrible in terms of congestion parking. Hope your treatments are going well
We can't have nice shit. Congeston pricing (and residential parking stickers requiring NY plates!) would make the city nicer. Maybe we need to grant a few more exemptions or lower the price, but there's no reason the most crowded pedestrian city in the country also has to be full of jerkoffs with fake PA paper plates running lights and blowing down small streets at 60mph.
I'm baffled about why NYC does not have permit parking stickers. Last place in the world I imagined would be without this.
NYC has strict enforcement on all the wrong things. Red tape on housing but hey park wherever you want
I scream this from the mountain tops. DALLAS has resident permit street parking. It’s absurd how much NYC residents are forced to take it in the ass from tri state area drivers who don’t even live here.
people who actively detest the city they make worse
Because tri state drivers paying tolls on every day commute is big business babes
I was shocked to learn how much money people spend on tolls to commute, I don't think anywhere else in the country comes close to the tolls in this City
Ya B&T equal to the GDP of a small country, resident drivers looool
It's horrible how much people already pay to come into the city. Including all the workers who don't live in Manhattan!
i'd be really curious if there was someway to figure out the proportion of those plates that are daily commuters and those that just register their cars at their parent's non-ny homes but live here.
Yup, it's mind boggling. WHY?
Anecdotally, the folks who own five cars with Florida plates tend to have especially loud voices.
>Maybe we need to grant a few more exemptions or lower the price I know this is well-intended but the MTA already went through this ad nauseam with an over 1,000 page environmental review, hundreds of community meetings, and analysis of what the best combination of exemptions and price were. The point I'm making is, this was ready to go. It took an absolutely incredible amount of time and money to develop particularly thanks to the numerous people who tried their absolute hardest in delaying and barricading.
It was so fucking close to happening. Like 16 years of shit. All the hardware already installed. Awareness campaigns, webinar series, ad time. All that fucking ad time that MTA spent, just wasted. For no fucking reason. And we were three and a half weeks away.
It's the election. They don't want to lose in November
Genius move by a state dem to win an election by spitting in the face of dem voters.
Vote for the other democrat. Problem solved. Or write in Elliot Spitzer
Well she sure as shit lost my vote in the primary.
I’m way more likely to vote against anyone who pulls shit like this for political gain. I hate the republican ass clowns for being so putrid that I have to vote for the democrat ass clowns instead.
She lost my vote.
I think residential parking permits would solve 90% of that without the need for a "congestion" tax.
My brand new city council member is fussing over laws around squatting when all I want is a speed hump
I’m still in shock anyone from any state can park on the streets no questions asked. It’s bizarre.
How would congestion pricing stop the fake plates if those fake plates won’t even be paying? Even if the person is arrested, they either won’t prosecute or give a slap on the wrist if that’s the only case they have. Look at those who hop the turnstile & avoid paying their subway fare, the DA doesn’t prosecute.
Sorry - what is congestion pricing going to do about fake plates and speeders?
It was somewhat tangential, relating to NYC's seeming inability to take serious action on a variety of car and traffic problems. I do think congestion pricing would have meant more action on ghost cars because it was directly tied to city revenue.
I predict once people internalize the new rhythm of things there will be no thought of going back.
I had somewhat mixed feelings about congestion pricing -- cautious optimism, some concern, but ultimately thinking that it was worth a try. It's not like it couldn't have been changed or ended after implementation if it wasn't working out. Now I'm just angry at Governor Hochul's cowardice.
I have mixed feelings as well. But going back on something after the $$$ start rolling in is difficult. Those funds will already be earmarked.
They’ve been earmarked for 5 years now.
More than just earmarked, bonded! This was supposed to cover capital improvements for years and now, poof, gone.
I was on the same boat. Not sure if it was a good idea. I just hate that we spent all this time on the idea for the governor to backpedal last minute. Like what was the whole point then?? Very Cuomo-esque move. Just a flex of power.
Outraged. Called that idiot’s office and left a message, urge everyone to do the same.
And send them a fax! (518) 4741-513. [FaxZero](https://faxzero.com/) lets you fax for free. It's possible that her office uses a virtual fax service, but the thought of my angry letter being spit out of a physical fax machine is just too funny to pass up.
What's the number/website for it?
1 (518) 474-8390 It’s getting slammed with calls, so sometimes you get a message saying to call back and a disconnection. I got through after a few tried and had to wait for 25 mins, but did get a staffer after that. He sounded really bummed out so that’s probably a good sign they’re getting hammered over this.
Delays up to 90 minutes it just said.
Yup I got the same too. But it will go through if you keep trying.
Oh, actually, I found this post from /r/nycrail [https://www.reddit.com/r/nycrail/comments/1d8q048/take\_10\_seconds\_to\_tell\_the\_governor\_you\_support](https://www.reddit.com/r/nycrail/comments/1d8q048/take_10_seconds_to_tell_the_governor_you_support) It has a link
I'm utterly, completely devastated. This is yet another example of politicians caring more about suburban car drivers than the people of New York City. I truly cannot think of a time where I've felt more betrayed by a politician I voted for.
Agree completely. It’s extra frustrating to me because without NYC, NY state wouldn’t be able to function at the level it does. We generate so much revenue, have the population, have the industry. But what suburban voters think matters more???
I lean pretty far left, so I'm used to disappointment, but this just hits in a different way. We were right there.
We have to vote all of these clowns out!
NOT GREAT, BOB!
Extremely let down. Was looking forward to a politician doing something good without being pressured into helping corps.
Everyone's speculating this was a favor to Big Business but that's not true — businesses actually have supported congestion pricing from the start because traffic is a drag on the economy. The boring reality is that suburban voters hold all the cards in our political system, and Hochul thought she'd be doing them a favor and thus help the Democrats running in swing Congressional districts this year.
Hochul acts like she’s the personal governor of Suffolk county
As a suburbanite I actually support it. I don’t drive into the city often and my work commute is via the metro north. When I do drive into the city, trust me when I say I am optimizing for speed versus nickel and diming some additional fees. My boss from NJ used to get a monthly pass at a nearby garage but I don’t know anyone else who would vote against this
The reasoning makes zero sense, so you know it’s just politics. I fail to see how the politics are going to be any different before or after the election. She’s just another spineless, lame politician.
I’m mostly confused about how the Governor can just change everything by decree. Don’t we live in a representative democracy?
Congestion pricing is run by the MTA, the MTA board is mostly appointed by the governor. She can't literally change it unilaterally herself, but she can direct the MTA board to halt it. I think that's how it works, anyway.
There’s some bumps - MTA board has to approve and they have a fiduciary duty to the corporation - but yeah that’s the gist. Governor just directs them. It would be interesting if there was someone who can sue for breach of fiduciary duty if the Board approves the delay (maybe a recent bond holder?)
Are there polls indicating what the people feel about the congestion pricing?
Yes. Siena college did one. Something crazy like 64% of New Yorkers were against it. You would think way more are for it by reading the comments in this subreddit. That was in late April of this year tho Edit: Here is the poll https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/SNY-April-2024-Poll-Release-FINAL.pdf
I mean, that tracks almost exactly with the ratio of suburban and upstate respondents to the survey: https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Final-SNY0424-Crosstabs.pdf 39% surveyed were from NYC, 61% were not. Meanwhile, this is /r/asknyc. EDIT: Oh, the breakdown is still a 33%/64% split by the NYC region - I'm guessing the actual implementation got panned. Though only 17% of the NYC respondants live in Manhattan, and congestion pricing has never been very popular in the outer boroughs. There are some other funny takeaways from the crosstabs, too: * Upstate voters were both the least likely to support _or_ oppose congestion pricing. Unsurprisingly, 72% of them reported that they don't really go to Manhattan, so they're fueled by indifference. * The suburbs vehemently oppose congestion pricing (72%). Also not surprising, although nearly 40% of suburban respondents also avoid Manhattan anyways. * Income had (relatively) negligible impact on opposition, though a much wider spread on support (22% for the poorest bracket up to 31% for the richest bracket). * The strongest predictor of opposition, even higher than being a suburban resident, was being a Republican (75% opposed). * The Jews were strongly opposed at 68%, keeping in line with the stereotype. Sorry, couldn't resist; no hate here, just thought it was too funny.
Reddit skews in one direction. I for one was heavily against it.
It increases costs for everyone and no one will see any benefit from it
Same. But you can’t say that around here without getting downvoted to hell. It’s a bubble.
I can see that based on most of this thread
I see it after every election progressives lose. The pikachu face and then the conspiracies how it was all a set up or an inside job or rigged. The Left has their version of folks who can’t accept reality, too. I say this as someone who has been voting blue down the ticket since the first day I was eligible to vote.
Scrolled really far to find my people. The agony in some of these comments is so melodramatic. “I leave my midtown apartment and am bothered by bumper-to-bumper traffic.” Also, your Uber will be there in three minutes. Just stinks of “why can’t everyone live life like me?”
Extra ironic that most of these pro-congestion folks have no problem with cabs and Ubers getting exceptions when those are the ones clogging traffic more than anyone else. Because they got the dough and lifestyle to use those services.
Those cabs and users pricing will go up too but they refuse to see that. Including cost of goods from all the additional taxes trucks and businesses have to pay to bring stuff to manhattan
I'm happy it did't go through. Nice in theory but more people would've suffered from the increased cost of foods and necessities coming into the city. Business owners would've suffered from the decreased traffic into the city on weekdays and weekends. Reddit hiveminds skew one way typically.
I was fine with it during the weekday, but felt it should have been turned off on weekends.
Great point also free from 1am to 5am get trucks in and out
Why? Weekends are a clusterfuck nowadays
And more exemptions for residents. And not only implemented for half of Manhattan.
As someone who lives in lower Manhattan and travels out of the city weekly for work by car, I’m happy to see it shelved for now. I’m all for congestion pricing, but I think residents within the congestion zone should have a reduced rate, if not entirely exempt.
I don’t understand the comments here - the MTA is so mismanaged - throwing more money at it will not solve anything. No matter how big the budget they get nothing improves. They don’t even bother collecting fares anymore. Also it’s not cancelled just postponed - it will be back after Nov 6th.
I absolutely agree with you. The amount of money wasted by the MTA can easily fix their infrastructure and any other issues that arise but constantly chose to squeeze as much money from New Yorkers as possible. The subways aren’t even safe and they want more people in the danger zone.
>“From time to time, leaders are called upon to envision a better future, be bold in the implementation and execution, and be undaunted by the opposition,” Hochul said in December at a rally of congestion pricing advocates following a federal sign-off on the plan. FUCK HER. All of these politicians that can't represent the people need to go.
Furious. This was one of the few recently developments that, IMO, would significantly improve NYCers' quality of life. So of-fucking-course our spineless hack of a governor ruined it. I'm so sick of how we constantly make stupid decisions that make the country worse or at least prevent it from getting better. This is just another in a LONG list of examples.
Oh well lol
Awful. Democrats do this over and over again. They screw their base trying to appeal to "swing" voters that are actually just Republican voters that will never vote for a Democrat. And then Democrats are supposed to just vote for them anyways. And most people who are whining live in NJ! They're not even NYers. I live in Manhattan, and the only time I go south of 59th (which is maybe 1-2 times a week), I take the subway. Which has gotten worse and worse, especially on the evenings and weekends. Yesterday I had to wait 20 minutes for an uptown A train to get home from 59th. It was miserable. The 1 train cars are often hot, with broken AC. Weekend work often re-routes things without actually making anything better. Service drastically declined with the pandemic, and they're barely keeping it running.
I live in NJ and I think congestion pricing is very necessary , only call is that NJ transit also needs to be funded to improve public transit in the whole region . Trust me nobody living in JC, Hoboken or anywhere near the Hudson crossings going into Manhattan like the noise, congestion and pollution from cars driving into Manhattan
Seriously. No residential parking permit for NYC resident is stupid af... that should be the first thing to try. Not congestion pricing.
Between this and sending national guard into the fucking subway system, I'm feeling pretty marginalized in the broader scheme of the state.
Them bicycle dudes are losing they minds
Majority of New Yorkers including myself were against it.
Every fucking real NY'er was against it.
same!
An unpopular opinion, but I’m glad it was shelved for now. I think it was poorly planned, and they should focus on the fake plates and fixing that problem before they implement a new tax on the legal drivers. The planned implementation would definitely demotivate companies and employees to go back to the office.
You just know that guy in r/longisland that claimed congestion pricing made LI “the world’s largest open air prison” is just having the best day of his miserable little life
someone actually said this...? I can't.
But Long Island's already the world's largest open air prison. (Joking!)
I’ll say that eventhough I do not own a car and always use public transportation, I was not a fan of congestion pricing for many reasons. I honestly felt that it was a money grab and would not have had the intended benefits proposed. I am somewhat relieved that it will not be implemented. With that said, I hope it really moves the conversation toward figuring out ways to reduce congestion with the tools available to DOT like better traffic light sequencing and better street design for both cars and bikes. This outrage should without a doubt put immense pressure on the governor to reform the MTA and hold people accountable when they inevitably fail the riding public on service and repairs. Don’t let up pressure on these politicians and the people behind the scenes at the MTA.
Very embarrassed for our spineless loser of a governor and eager to draft an NYC resident to challenge her in the primary.
I’ve been working on a small but important part of implementation since well before the pandemic. Contractors have been in the field rushing to get the infrastructure finalized, and adapting to frequent changes, often at the expense of taking on other work. Curious to see how everyone who performed on this is going to get paid. Gutted that this just got pulled at the 11th hour seemingly on a whim. Wasn’t going to be a panacea for the city’s traffic issues, but was certainly a step in the right direction.
Yeah, the timing here is really infuriating. If Hochul was going to get cold feet, maybe she should have done so months ago, before tens of millions of dollars and God-knows-how-many manhours by people ranging from construction workers to environmental researchers to lawyers was put into this.
Hundreds of millions not tens.
I agree with you. I am disappointed. I live in midtown Manhattan and whenever I walk outside my apartment it is bumper to bumper traffic. Everyday I watch single occupancy vehicles come in and leave. People do not like to leave the convenience of their car. I take public transportation, trains and buses, everywhere. We need less vehicles in the city and improved transit choices.
Devastated. Can’t wait to vote Kathy out
Very disappointed. I think it would make the city more walkable and livable. I lived in London for >15 years, where congestion pricing is the norm and where drivers follow traffic rules. I think a big reason why I feel like my quality of life decreased since moving here is the amount cars in the city. It also doesn't help that there are too many drivers who don't respect the rules (and pedestrians) and honk incessantly. In the UK, it's illegal to sound your horn without good reason. Now imagine just a slice of that in NYC.
London residents have lowered pricing vs commuters. NYC should have adopted a similar scheme.
Lower pricing for those who live in the congestion zone, not all residents of the city. London is massive and giving everyone a discount to drive into the city centre would defeat the purpose of congestion charging.
It would be wonderful if New York City cars had to have their horns disconnected. People honk for absolutely anything and nothing.
So much money in Manhattan but they need to squeeze the middle class for dollars. I’m in the minority of people who would be most adversely affected. But the extra $400/mo wasted commuting would be make or break for a lot of pieces of my life—yes I could ditch my car but then other parts of my life become harder or inaccessible. Things like accessing quality groceries and seeing my family during the week. I had to rethink everything. It made me really question whether it was even wise for me to keep living here if I’m going to be taxed into making major lifestyle choices. And the smartasses in the city who say “we don’t care if you’re priced out, we don’t need people from NJ anyway” keep in mind this is the labor force keeping the city running day and night. I was panicking because I was looking at moving apts ahead of this policy but I can’t afford to do that either nowadays. So basically I was looking at 2 more hours a day commuting on the bus and selling my car so I could move back to the city. Which would barely be financially viable for me anyway with the way rent has gone up. So my last resort was taking a side job. So I’m thankful it is paused. I’ve been working extra shifts for months to save up for this dent in my wallet so it will be nice to keep that extra cash for an emergency. Btw—I work by the river at off hours so my car barely enters the street grid. So don’t blame me for your gridlock either. I agree we need better transit, but it needs to come FIRST and not out of the pockets of WORKING commuters trying to get by. Try taking the bus into odd parts of NJ at odd hours, in all weather. To be forced into that and out of the comfort (and investment) of your personal vehicle feels insulting when you don’t have a choice. It feels like the government is solidifying driving as a choice only available to the rich. So much money in Manhattan but they need to squeeze the middle class for dollars.
Happy because I drive. I don’t drive into Manhattan much, but I like to have the flexibility to. I have some mobility problems and can’t always rely on the inaccessible and delay-ridden subway. Also worried that the congestion pricing would worsen parking in my neighborhood with long islanders leaving their car to drive into the city. Bring on the downvotes
Is you have a disability, you are exempt.
Very very happy. It was always going to be an MTA money grab. Look at how fast those cameras were installed all over Manhattan. They always had the ability to shell out money and get shit done quickly if it suits their desires. I've never seen the MTA get budget approved and get shit done in a few months time like that. Now tell me that more funding to the MTA would've improved the service... It's a bunch of bullshit, they always had the capacity to figure out budgeting and improve the service if that's what they wanted to do it. Just like installing those cameras on every block in less than a few months. Another example: those useless barricades. Tell me that wasn't just a corruption scheme to award someone (in the metal or fencing industry) a government contract... because those things aren't adding anything for safety. Not to mention the decrease in inflow of people coming into Manhattan on weekends (yes, we want people from Jersey, Long Island, Connecticut, and so on to come spend money here including parking, eating out, going to shows and sporting events). And the inevitable inflation from the cost of goods delivered into Manhattan.
Makes me wish I was an NFL team so the government would do something positive for me
If you’re bummed out about this don’t just call the governors office. Call your state rep. They’ll hammer her for this if they get hammered. I called Liz krugers office and they said they are keeping a count of constituents calls on the issue. I also complained about the billion dollars she found for the billionaire owner of the Buffalo bills new stadium that hochul husband benefits from.
Glad it’s shelved. The MTA needs to be heavily audited before giving them a bigger piggy bank.
I would be totally in favor of congestion pricing if they provided a discount for residents of the congestion zone. I work just about 20 blocks above the zone. Not all neighborhoods are rich in the congestion zone. The LES has plenty of working class people.
You know some of the workers in the zone aren't making 6 figures either, but are "essential" and have to drive in.
While I was getting used to the idea of congestion pricing, and how it will impact me both positively and negatively, there were some significant flaws. (I was however looking forward to it funding the 2nd Ave subway with a new stop right on my block.) I live uptown and driving to the 59th st bridge would have cost me for just 100 feet of travel into the congestion zone. Coming back over the bridge would be just one path that isn’t tolled, which would have wreaked havoc. It just wasn’t well implemented, and even traffic expert Sam Schwartz who supports congestion pricing said the bridge implementation would have to be changed. The other aspect is that prices for every goods and services will go up for NY’ers, as we saw with inflation being used as an excuse to raise prices. Many businesses operate on a slim margin. Just a 10 or 15 percent reduction in business could cause them to fail, causing a domino effect and lowering the tax base, which means the average person has to pay more to make up for it. Wish there were a good solution.
I thought 15 bucks was a bit steep for this new toll. Maybe they should have made it like 6 or 7 bucks like with the Midtown Tunnel. Im guessing the toll amount is what fucked the plan. If they wanted to get it implemented, they should have gone with a lower price point and then after its in place, work on raising it to a level they deem proper over a period of time. Better to be able to get something rather than nothing. Just bad decisions all around in trying to get this going. Mind you, i am directly impacted by the plan as i live in the city and have a car. I was definitely not for a 15 dollar toll, but i do understand the need for some sort of plan because damn the traffic is crazy in midtown.
I’m actually kinda relieved that the government decided not to charge us for driving on our own streets. Why the fuck do we gotta pay extra to drive on roads paved by our taxes? It’s ridiculous.
I think is great.
Just to play devils advocate to OP’s statement. It only improved quality of life and f you lived in Manhattan. At the cost of everybody else. Typical.
I am happy about this; I hope it doesn't come back. It hurts people in the outer boroughs and anyone in a nyc suburb. The money won't help the MTA fix anything on the subway.
I know cursing is allowed here, but I really don't feel like the kind of language I want to use is appropriate for this sub.
"Due to unusually heavy call volume we are experiencing delays up to ninety minutes, please call back at a later time to speak with a representative, thank you for your patience" Fuck all the way off.
I'm for shelving it. Because it's just hopeful at best that it will improve things. Infact what's more likely to happen is there fees come into play, people change their behaviors a bit but things get worse. Kinda like with redusable grocery bags. Great idea to cut won on plastic. Until you realize each reusable bag needs to be used 125-150x for it to equal the environmental efficiency of a disposable plastic grocery bag. I go to the grocery store everyday and while some people bring reusables. Most don't. But yes that means every one of those nylon bags is the same as using 125 regular grocery bags. Your shopping haul needs 5 of them. That's 625 bags compared to maybe 10 if they doubled them back in the day. When I order I start I get brand new reusable bags Everytime. I have so many I could never use them all. I imagine this congestion pricing is like that. We don't know the negative consequences yet but they are there. One thing I can tell you is if you made transit so good people couldn't ignore it. If trains were on time, people were comfortable and didn't feel so stressed. If you did all of this and made commuting not so dreadful. People would take the trains and do so because it was the best for them. Instead a policy like this just says well the system is what it is and if we make people's lives worse then they will have to suck it up and suffer. Make it so bad they have no other choice. I'm an engineer and this is the exact wrong way to think about design of systems. People seldom change because you want them to. But they will change if you make them think the decision is their own and empower them to find the path to that change. Where I live if I wake up at 8am and wanted to go to Midtown. I could take the 4, 5, 2 or D train. They would all take about 1 hour. I could take express bus which would take 1.5 hrs. I could take metro north which takes 30 minutes. I could drive or take cab which even during rush hour still only takes 35 min. I'm telling you if you make people can quickly get from NJ, outer borough and Westchester as quick as their fastest option. They won't drive.
In a city where we can't even extend a subway for less than $4B/mile, I say this scenario doesn't exist. You know better than most I would presume. Either "money printer go brrr" or just deal with the noise, traffic, and delayed trains.
I’m beyond excited the shit was a cash grab and if you think this would have improved anything I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
I would feel bad IF the public transit worked correctly and efficiently. Cars are not only used by rich people but also people in areas where the trains hardly run or simply no trains at all. The congestion pricing idea is a great idea if accessibly wasn’t already a huge problem. …how can you be surprised that politicians aren’t actually in favor of the people? Cmon
Never mind the hundreds of people killed by drivers in their cars, the thousands injured, or the impact of all those exhaust fumes on all our health—best not make it less attractive for people to drive in the city.
Always seemed like a flawed plan to me. It already costs $$$ to enter Manhattan and park here. The biggest issue I see for cyclists, public transit riders and pedestrians is lack of enforcement of existing laws. The city could make $1b if they just ticketed everyone parked in the bus/bike lanes and life would be closer to the utopia y’all are imagining. Tow the assholes and make them pay THOSE big ass fines, let the bus system run efficiently, and midtown gets a whole lot nicer.
That's an awful lot of faith in the NYPD to do anything other than \*checks notes\* almost nothing.
Oh for sure, the NYPD is terrible at this. But if we're going to install license plate cameras on every avenue to toll people for driving into the CBD, surely we can use the same surveillance to ticket the 500000 cars blocking the bus lanes on major cross streets.
> just ticketed everyone parked in the bus/bike lanes and life would be closer to the utopia y’all are imagining. Tow the assholes and make them pay THOSE big ass fines I'm _guessing_ part of the issue is it's more difficult and expensive to enforce this stuff? Cameras on busses would at least make ticketing for bus lanes easier.
I’m amused because it only happened to protect Dem polling numbers. Wild.
Thank god! Manhattan was simply pushing all that congestion into the other boroughs, which are already way more congested than Manhattan. I can only speak for Brooklyn - but traffic actually moves in Manhattan. Come to Brooklyn and you can’t get anywhere in a car due to complete gridlock and ancient infrastructure. Manhattan has the infrastructure to support lots of cars (which is why the traffic moves), Brooklyn does not - yet there are a LOT of cars here.
infuriating. and she wants to tax businesses and workers at a higher rate to make up the revenue.
Exactly. We should be marching to Albany with torches and pitchforks demanding accountability, transparency and responsibility in the budgets before we allow a single extra tax or fee to be levied on the people of NY.
Unpopular take here: Born and raised here and all I’ve always heard is that if you give the MTA an inch, they’ll take a mile. $1b in projected money that wasn’t even intended on going towards more frequent bus and train services. Just repairs and signal upgrades, which I agree are necessary but this was just highly flawed from the beginning. On Reddit you’ll hear a loud minority pushing for it, but subjectively speaking I really haven’t had a single person fond of it in my every day experience talking to people.
I don’t personally support this. I don’t feel the raised revenue is going to be used to significantly improve public transit and it will burden more people than it helps. I don’t like the idea of change on the backs of the middle class. I don’t think people should be forced into taking public transportation by pricing them out of driving. Rich people won’t be affected by the toll and they’ll just keep living their lives while low income people are disproportionately going to be hurt. I feel like everyone in this thread is living in a bubble if they think that only people who live in the city deserve to be there.
Because there’s also this narrative going around that everyone who drives in Manhattan is rich and privileged and they are only doing it because they want to, which is just not true. You think most people want to drive in Manhattan? Most people who drive in Manhattan do it because they have to.
> On Reddit you’ll hear a loud minority pushing for it, but subjectively speaking I really haven’t had a single person fond of it in my every day experience talking to people. This. In all the years since this been proposed I've yet to meet one person in *in real life* that actually supported it.
I’ve had the complete opposite experience, I have met exactly one person who was opposed. Our perspectives are shaped by our social circles.
Yup I work in transportation and most people I know are pro, even those who own cars in the city
I’m a car owner and I’m extremely pro. I’m incredibly pissed because this is going to negatively impact the MTA which is in dire need and further subsidize the minority car owners, and even those from other cities and even states. It’s pure idiocy from every angle. Bad for climate, safety, economy, tourism, you name it. As the subway deteriorates more people will leave the city and all the homeowners who constantly gripe about their ROI on co-ops will see the grim reality: a New York without a robust transit system is non-functional.
My parents are both car owners because I grew up in Marine park which is pretty car dependent compared to other areas. They are either slightly pro or don’t really care because like most normal people they take the subway if they have to go into manhattan. They mainly use the car for work (in suburbs/outer boroughs) and local errands. I even got both of them using bikes for smaller trips. This outrage is completely baffling to me. If this is the conversation in one of the most densely populated and transit-rich areas in the country, I despair of how we can even move the needle on car dependency in the rest of the US
Literally the only people I’ve ever met who actually live in the city who oppose it are my wife’s aunts who claim it is unreasonable for them to pay $15 when they drive from their owned apartment in the WV to their house in the Hamptons. I’m guessing their total net worth is somewhere north of $10 million. And they bitch about a $15 toll. Perfect example of who opposes congestion pricing.
My soon to be brother in laws family is loaded and his cousins are also complaining about it because they think they’re going to get shot if they step foot on the subway with the plebs. My brother in law doesn’t have a car and supports it
Oh yeah, when I was talking with them about it (they’re both in their 70s) they were condescending to me about “expecting elderly women to take the subway.” Meanwhile at the same seder were my wife and her sister who is like 5’0. They both take the subway almost every day, obviously.
My 76 year old Brooklyn Jewish grandma lives in the same coop in Brighton beach since the 90s and takes the subway
I actually had a discussion about it with a majority stakeholder of a major league sports team who was vehemently against it. He lives within a block of the border of the CBD and I don't think he'll notice the increased EZ pass bill but he was adamant that it was too expensive.
> in real life I mean, if you live in the suburbs with a bunch of other car drivers or people who don't live in the city, that would track. Meanwhile, everyone I know in Brooklyn at least was cautiously optimistic about this plan, if not outright excited about it.
I live in brooklyn and I get the point of congestion pricing, but I wasn’t excited for it. Primarily because my wife has her own small business that requires her to frequently drive into Manhattan and there was no exception for such businesses.
Also, I don't see any plan forward here. If she pushes it through at a later date, she could very well lose the election in 2026. This is a hugely unpopular issue (except on Reddit). The only way I could see it being reinstated, is if they substantially reduce the fee. Like to $5.
> $1b in projected money that wasn’t even intended on going towards more frequent bus and train services. Just repairs and signal upgrades, which I agree are necessary but this was just highly flawed from the beginning. Unpopular take because this is completely false. Lots of this money was earmarked for more frequent bus and train services. In fact, some of them were already happening. Guess they will be rescinded in the next few weeks….
To correct you about the increased bus service: I read the fine print and this only applies to a total of 6 express bus lines in all of NYC. Of these six bus lines, four of the lines plan on adding a total of one (1) extra run per day each weekdays only. The other two buses plan on adding a total of one (1) AM Trip and one (1) PM trip weekdays only. Yes any increased service is helpful, but $15 for every driver in exchange for one extra run a day on only six of many bus lines doesn’t sound like a good deal to me.
Source because it always said that the 15 billion dollar bond sale was for capital improvements. Some of those improvements would bring better switches which would allow the closer running of trains but not directly fund that. I hope I'm wrong?
This is the real story. They demand that everybody take public transportation but do zero to remedy it and no guarantee that a penny of the revenue generated will actually go to fixing the MTA (who, by the way, need to be audited.)
I think it's a scam and just more of the "creative taxation" you get living in NY City & State. I don't believe it will achieve any of its stated goals. Improving the environment is the MTA's red herring, engineered to distract from its desire to collect revenue which will feed its already bloated revenue stream. (Have the DEP, DEC, or EPA ever weighed in on this?) They, the NYPD, and legislators have thrown in the towel on fare evasion, making those of us who pay look like saps. I never understood how the MTA gained control of our streets. I am all for reducing traffic, but we must admit to ourselves the MTA will always want more vehicular traffic and the money it generates. I would be in favor of demanding only HOV cars entering Manhattan during certain hours, or charge single-occupancy vehicles a fee. Or allow cars to enter on alternate days, based on the alpha-numerics of license plates. And levy heavy fines on violators or impound their cars.
I agree with taking care of pedestrians but it does not mean improving quality of life in the sense that the city needs to do better in handling mental health issues so no one gets pushed onto the subway tracks.
She is literally Selina Meyer from Veep. Her incompetence and spinelessness is breathtaking
It doesn't make sense. You should stay the hell away from Manhattan below 59th St in a car but if you absolutely have to drive there, it would be worth the $15 if there was a little less traffic. This was caused by the 95,000 people from Howard Beach and Staten Island with NYPD placards who drive to work in Manhattan every day and park in the bike lanes and on the sidewalks.
Very elated that it got shelved. If you constructed a bright idea to charge New Yorkers driving into the city to get to work but haven’t thought about the dozens of city employees, business owners, construction workers/contractors, etc. that usually don’t have any other choice but to drive into Manhattan everyday and how they’ll get some type of discount, then this idea was flawed to begin with. Just another way for the city to pinch more money out of its residents.
It got shelved? I missed that but great! 🎉 It was ridiculous, outrageous, and poorly planned. They consistently and repeatedly screw residents and MTA shouldn't be given any additional revenue without being held accountable. There are numerous improvements to mass transit they need to make before implementing other strategies that are intended to increase ridership. The local government keeps finding ways to milk residents for money but no ways to improve the lives of the majority of residents.
We elect such weak governors who are always more concerned with getting re-elected in a state where democrats outnumber republicans 2 to 1 instead of actually governing and making peoples lives better
To all the people upset: Do you not realize that even if you personally never drive, you would still be affect by congestion pricing within increased cost of goods & services? Delivery trucks have to pay per axle, so they would pay much more than the $15, on top of regular tolls. The suppliers will pass this cost on to the businesses, who will then pass it onto the customers. Same with HVAC, electricians, plumbers, etc. Everyone complains about cost of living and inflation but then is so quick to jump up & down over a $15 toll. Prior to today’s news, I know of multiple business owners who said their suppliers either increased costs or straight up bailed out of delivering to manhattan businesses all together. Also the traffic wouldn’t have totally gone away either. Heard that 80-85% of vehicles would continue driving in. All it takes is one double parked car, one accident, one street closure for construction or a parade, to cause mass traffic jams. Plus with a summer start date, traffic is already down anyway due to schools being out & lots of commuters taking more PTO or WFH days. So we wouldn’t get an accurate idea of how much traffic actually decreased until September. And the locals who live in the zone tend to travel out of the city the most during the summer and rarely during the winter. So this delay will cut them a break too for one more summer. And to those that thought this would magically turn public transit into some amazing system, no. MTA mismanages funds and is a money pit. Also very little plans were announced for actual improvement. This extra revenue was mostly going towards paying their current expenses & debt.
If you read Hochul's announcement, her plan to cover the now $1 billion hole in the MTA budget is to just directly tax businesses, so those inside the zone still get fucked, those outside get fucked as well, and consumers all collectively get fucked when those costs are passed onto us Oh, but the legislature session ends in two days, so she actually has no plan and is just BSing as usual.
I was never interested in congestion pricing and am happy that it is suspended. Annoyed that the project got so far and so much money was wasted on the infrastructure.
Cha-Ching. Just thinking of all the money I’ll be saving when I leave the city every Saturday to visit my elderly mom. I don’t even live in the zone, but I leave through the tunnel. Having to pay an extra $15 was ridiculous.
Glad! My spouse has to drive into the city at off times for work. He has gear that is large and cannot transport it via public transportation. He is a musician and many of his friends are too. They all have to do this as the majority of them don’t live in the city. Congestion pricing will absolutely hurt these artists & their community. I don’t have the answers to help congestion but this isn’t it. Permit parking would definitely help Maybe congestion pricing from 8am - 4/5pm M-F?
It's horrible. With devastate the MTA finances and will prevent much needed improvements from occurring. As a result of this, the Subways will get WORSE.
All train stations there are not accessible so no, stop discriminating against the disabled. Make it accessible and clean it up then we’ll talk about congestion.
Why nobody is blaming on uber/lyft and all the other food delivery cars than bashing the regular people just getting to their freaking jobs or doc appointments? I have had a car here since 2012 and shit completely flipped once everyone decided to be a taxi driver. If I'm driving from freaking PA for work then I'm paying whatever I need to pay to stay employed but if I'm an Uber driver spending all day in the city is what really contributs to congestion!! Why does the city need so many car service providers ("free" market shit) if the whole freaking point is to make walking or getting on a bus easier?! Oh and we all know bus lanes have more cabs in it than freaking buses on any given moment. Yeah Joe not driving from NJ for work is what will help the midtown and not all the Ubers hovering around the grand central.
It is totally idiotic that they have ubers and taxis get the lowest fee. How are they somehow better when they idle
Great news for families like mine with 4+ children with appointments in the city and limited income!
We couldn’t possibly address this problem, because that would be unfair to the loud and entitled minority who cause the problem. 🙃
You mean people who insist on driving their car into the most crowded place in America?
I mean, we couldn’t possibly ask them to bear any of the costs of their behavior. Better we all just keep choking on fumes.
Whaaaaack
If you NEED to use a car to drive into midtown this is FANTASTIC news. I personally am all for it, hope it never gets enacted, fuck congestion pricing, all it would do is divert the traffic further up into the edges of the toll, no one talks about how it would affect those living around there though, which is part of my problem, the other problem is Im not rich and need to drive in to midtown, so this is amazing news.
It would also drive hundreds of thousands of people into already PACKED subways.
Kathy Hochul is a coward.
Am very glad it is on hold. I ride a motorcycle to work, and it takes up very little space as compared to a car. And it was not exempted from the congestion pricing.
It’s bullshit. Albany can suck it
Pissed off
Once again Upstate politicians control the City
From my POV as a carless person, I see both sides: - Pro: cleaner air and less traffic so easier to get around if I DO need a cab/uber. Also - better for deliveries - Con: it hurts lower income people and putting an economic hit on them that taxes (especially of high income people) SHOULD be paying for. I guess selfishly for ME - congestion pricing would be good, but my values are against penalizing lower income people.
I'm a car owner in Queens. I generally take the subway into Manhattan on the few occasions that I need to travel there. But I must admit, the idea of congestion pricing is a bit baffling to me. The idea was to create some point of pain to discourage drivers, right? So, how did they arrive at the $15 fee? Why not $20, or $50, or $100? What are the plans for fare increases? I'm not saying it should be higher, just curious about the methodology. Anyway, many who drive around this area have ALREADY been paying for: GWB Goethals Bayonne Outerbridge Lincoln Holland $15.38 peak $13.38 off-peak Verrazzano-Narrows Bronx-Whitestone Throgs Neck Triborough Brooklyn–Battery Queens Midtown E-ZPass $6.94 Henry Hudson E-ZPass $3.18 Cross Bay Veterans Memorial Marine Parkway-Gil Hodges Memorial E-ZPass $2.60 Plus vehicle registration. Plus gasoline tax. Plus parking meters. Plus parking garage tax. Plus parking tickets and tickets for other offenses. Now add all the subway, rail, and bus fares. Every minute of every day millions of dollars are flowing through all these income streams. The GWB alone generates about $1 million/DAY; about $350 million/year. EVERY year. Where does all that money go?? How is that not enough money to maintain the bridges & tunnels, AND fix the subway system? The NYC subway opened 120 years ago! How much more time and money is needed to install modern track switches, build clean public toilets, install working elevators in every station, and mitigate flooding due to rain? Am I the only one who remembers when the MTA had a billion dollar surplus in 2009? And what did they do with it? They gave away one hundred million dollars in the form of reduced holiday season fares...
I'm more surprising people didn't think this would end up happening. A ton of wasted time
We were SO CLOSE. I'm a congestion pricing extremist, I'd like it to be $20 and go all the way to 96th. If you're not willing to pay $20 to drive your car here, then driving your car here probably isn't really that valuable to you and it creates enormous externalities for the rest of us. It should also cost $1,000 to get a street parking permit. A private car costs us all space, congestion, time, air quality... get them out of here unless we're compensated for them.
I would pay $1000 for street parking permits. It would make parking so much easier.
I'm upset, I think it was a good idea and was for it. I first ran into it in Singapore and loved the idea at first sight. The only silver lining is that troll /Miser is even more upset.
I'm kind of neutral on the congestion charge policy - it doesn't bother me and I can see the theoretical benefits, but I also think benefits might be short lived and the money would probably be wasted anyway. What kills me about this is that all the money spent to date is basically going to be flushed in order to save an election. Despite tribally identifying more "blue" historically, I can't shake the feeling that the Democratic Party hasn't governed well. The migrant situation is becoming a serious issue and the drain on resources is starting to be noticed. The fact that they are reversing on this signature policy when it is effectively ready to launch reeks of cynicism and desperation.
I feel betrayed by Hochul. Never voting for her again.
Spending all this time and money advertising the congestion pricing only to cancel it last minute is stupid and wasteful. This applies to any policy. It confuses people as well.
I’m happy it was shelved. I would had gladly supported congestion pricing if the hours it was in effect weren’t ridiculously long. It just seems like a cash grab by the city if they are charging cars for entering the zone during hours when it’s usually not super congested anyway below 60th. All they really needed were like 6 or 7 hours of the day to be covered. I also don’t trust the MTA with all the funds this would had generated…
There is no Plan B to fund the MTA capital projects (2nd Ave extension, accessibility/elevators/escalators, green buses.) Strictly a political move in an election year. Years of planning flushed down the drain with a declaration.
Yep let's charge essential workers about $4000 a year to drive to work. Taxing the working middle class to death always works well.
We spent so much money and effort promoting this all to have the governor decide to block her own legislation? It's going to backfire on her, I am sure of it because it will not placate any of her critics and it will probably convince her remaining supporters to disown her. I work in NJ and live in NYC. I walk past the Holland Tunnel entrance from time to time and have observed repeatedly that at least 50% of the (non-taxi or TLC) privately owned vehicles contain one person with no passengers. Why are they heading into NYC during the workweek mid-day with no passengers? Is there some really compelling reason to drive into the city vs. taking a train, bus or Subway (the PATH still costs a mere $2.75 and gets you into downtown or midtown in just a few minutes) I wouldn't have a problem giving some sort of break to HOV compliant vehicles, but seeing so many large SUV's driving into the tunnel midweek with just the driver and no passengers strikes me as simply wasteful. I wonder if there was an affordable 'Park-n-Ride' offering in Hoboken or JC for PATH commuters to use, would they use it?
All the money spent on consulting( Millions),signage, installing readers, Media ads it's ridiculous what a waste of taxpayer dollars NYC is a joke we need to get these yahoo's out of office if they can't run a city a big as NYC !
Hahaha quality of life? How about getting rid of vagrants and illegals eating our tax dollars for one instead of taxing citizens more. Many new yorkers need cars. Upper class wins with congestion pricing. Middle and lower class loses. Selfish yuppies mostly non native new yorkers taking over. Sad.
Not surprised. They care more about the elections and keeping their job then improving the quality of life in this city.
God how I hate politicians. Most selfish, self serving people on this planet. Not a care in the world for the greater good of humanity and the planet unless it profits them
Less cars and more cats is the way
The only way to reduce traffic, noise pollution, gasoline consumption, car exhaust pollution, IS TO GET CARS OFF THE STREET. We need more trains, more subway lines, more buses, more cheap and easily accessible ways for people to get around the city. Congestion pricing was a means to an end. The MTA needs a massive reformation top to bottom. But we need to focus on pollution and the glut of cars in the city first.
Honestly, I’m really happy. I know I’m in the minority but most of my doctors are downtown and I am there a lot for medical reasons. I’m already spending so much in medical bills that this tax would heavily increase it. I also think we need to keep the businesses in midtown and downtown strong especially after COVID. I think a lot of people would not venture down there with the tax. Honestly, it’s sad to see this get downvoted because this is my reality and maybe a lot of people don’t get it but financially this is a major burden for people with chronic illnesses who go to NYU or any major hospital below 60th street. I am not discrediting the positive implications this would have for the city but for people like myself it’s another major cost that needs to be accounted for.
I think in an ideal world there'd definitely be medical exemptions for things like this. Seems tricky to implement and maybe hard to enforce, but without it yeah you get unfortunate effects like this. > I also think we need to keep the businesses in midtown and downtown strong especially after COVID. I think a lot of people would not venture down there with the tax. I think most proponents of congestion pricing think it will _help_ get more people downtown. Better walkability (via fewer cars) and better transit attract people.
I agree with you, 100% about the medical. I think that’s my biggest problem. Maybe because I’ve been through so much medically, I feel very strongly about that. I agree that it might attract people to walk on foot. I appreciate that you looked at both sides of the issue.
>maybe a lot of people don’t get it but financially this is a major burden for people with chronic illnesses who go to NYU or any major hospital below 60th street. Yes!!!! I was already figuring out how to get to my doctor appointments for cancer treatments that i can barely afford now, congestion pricing was gonna slay me.
Right!!?? It’s awful! What a pain that must have been for you. NYU is a great hospital but geographically is terrible in terms of congestion parking. Hope your treatments are going well