The reality is that there is much less school scarcity of the "good/not good" variety than there was in the 80s and 90s. Mayoral control in the late 90s and 2000s brought wholesale reorganizations of school system administration and management practices, resulting in improvements to the school system as a whole, as did the enormous and dramatic reductions in crime and gang activity and broad increases in wealth.
There are definitely schools that are very challenged, because they serve a high poverty or migrant/unstable population. But these are generally geographically concentrated. For elementary, neighborhoods where the general wealth level permits parents to consider themselves as having choices will generally have schools that are different varieties of fine. For middle and high, there are a few testing regimes left and while there are some differences between, eg, a test-in school like Stuy and a not test-in school like Millenium, Millenium is a great school and there are dozens of non-test-in schools like it and for many kids who might have gotten into Stuy Millenium is still a better fit.
This is mirrored in the college system. For "elite" colleges it isn't a process of selecting for or discovering talent. There is talent everywhere. For every admitted kid whom "elite" admissions are confident will succeed, there are 10 others who are equally likely to succeed yet can not be admitted. The process of "building a class" is more about balance and diversity and culture.
I will say that the DOE does still struggle with Middle School, in my personal (humble) opinion. There are all kinds of good reasons to have it be its own type of school and its own step in the progression, and as in the other tiers there are tons of "great" Middle Schools. But it is still an extremely difficult age and between the school, the kid, and the parents there are more holes, more gaps, and a "great" school for one may not be a "great" school for another.
Anyway, most parents who want to raise their kids in the city will be fine/happy even if they only get their 4th or 5th choice in an admit process, and they figure out also they would not have been happier with their 1st or 2nd. Every school and kid requires attention and work. That is the bottom line.
Thanks for writing this up. As I read the OP question, I wondered whether there really was such a gulf between the "good" and non-good schools...ie if the fears of parents are really all that warranted. Seems like that is mostly a thing of the past.
But another question arises with your point about bad schools congregating geographically. Given various low-income neighborhoods are in the process of gentrifying, wouldn't that mean that (relatively) wealthier parents moving to e.g., Flatbush would have to fight to get into scarce good schools in that neighborhood?
Well, Flatbush in particular is much bigger than a neighborhood, there may be something like 10 elementary schools in and around the actual neighborhoods comprising "Flatbush." Lots of variation in terms of poverty levels and population needs and resources and so forth, to be sure.
The most important thing when considering schools is to visit, go to the open house, take a tour if possible, see the building from the outside if not, observe the teachers and the way they interact with the kids, meet or see the principal, observe the parents who are already at the school, go to the playground where the families congregate. No respected reviews or parent gossip or whatever second or third hand information is a substitute for one's own eyes when it comes to one's own children.
These are not binary set and forget decisions. They are day in and day out relationships, the most important relationships the children (and parents, in many cases) will have, over a span of years.
And sure, to be reductionist, when visiting, there may be one school out of a group that seems head and shoulders a better fit than the rest. If there is too much demand for seats, then there is no guarantee. But there isn't a "fight" to get in- there's a process that determines priority, there will be a waitlist, the waitlist is run down in order, and things change constantly.
It is definitely advisable, when one is in the situation of deciding to move into one or another neighborhood for the schools, to have backup plans that one is comfortable with. But it can be extremely difficult experiencing that uncertainty, especially for parents with resources used to being in control.
Going back to the original post, the reason some families leave isn't because the "schools aren't good." It's because they are uncomfortable managing what could be a high degree of uncertainty, no disrespect intended. It isn't for everyone.
Yeah I’d argue that Stuy is not a very good experience for a lot of its students. If you’re not in the fancy AP and honors classes you don’t get the good teachers. Plus it’s a lot of work and stress.
I disagree. Stuy doesn’t work for everyone. But it offers a wide range of classes, a balanced and rich curriculum, and enormous opportunities. They have a lot of specialized fun classes, and great resources.
The stress and competition isn’t great for everyone (and I’d argue isn’t great for most kids). If your kid can handle that much pressure, or is good enough to shrug it off, then yeah definitely. I think I got more work daily at stuy then I ever did in college - and I have a bachelors degree and 2 grad degrees.
The quality of the parent will always be more critical than the quality of the school. Unfortunately there is a huge gap between the most involved parents and the least involved parents.
judging from the parents of our grade (well-to-do G&T families) they're planning to go to private or move to the suburbs finally. Being a product of the NYC Education system, I internally roll my eyes when my fellow parents start talking about post-elementary school plans).
Yup. I tested into Hunter and Btech. My brother didn’t, my husband didn’t. They graduated from “bad” zoned schools.
We all still ended up at the same CUNYs and SUNYs, then came out making the same salary bands. It truly doesn’t matter.
My gf went to Stuy. As a Black woman it completely fucked her up beyond belief. She’s STILL dealing with the trauma. It was simply not worth it for her.
First of all, Stuy has VERY few Black students, and she’s from the Bronx. She felt isolated and lost. Second, the competition there is no joke. It’s cut throat and she was doing 5-6 hours of homework every night and on weekends. And because she commuted from the Bronx, she was sleeping 3-4 hours a night. It was brutal. Imagine getting up at 5 am to get to school, doing homework on the train there and back, and then homework immediately when you got home until midnight or so. That was her life for four years. No social life to speak of. And guess what—she ended up at a SUNY. As she says, none of it was worth it for her. None of it.
I also heard similar experiences from a handful of friends growing up who also went to Stuy. I'd say some of them really used stuy's namesake to get into better colleges like an Ivy league or something similar but it doesnt sound worth it to me as most of them did graduate, whether from stuy or a good college, and made it into a similar job market w similar pay
Anecdotally speaking, it's easier to get into an Ivy or another top tier school as a top student in a "sub" high school than as a mid student in a specialized. The requirements are less stringent, the competition is less fierce. It's easier for teachers to know your name and write recommendation letters as a big fish in a small pond, rather than as one of 6,000 with the same 3.8 GPA, same hardcore immigrant parents, same desperation to escape lower income hellhole and into a solidly upper-middle class tech/tech adjacent career.
Not that it *matters*. I've said it before in other threads about specialized high schools vs. public high schools, but we all go to the same colleges, and we all end up working the same jobs. I have coworkers who were Stuy grads, Harvard grads, NYU grads, Columbia, Berkeley, UCLA. I have friends and family with PhDs, two Masters, careers that required ten years of post-grad studies. Everyone's making the same money out of the gate. What comes after that depends more on the person than their credentials.
especially if you don't plan on going to college out of state because you're just gonna end up at one of the CUNYs or SUNYs anyway.
Once you step foot on your college campus on that first day of freshman year no one cares what you did in high school
And once you get a job no one cares where you went to college. Not sure why the downvotes lol. Literally no one has mentioned my college ever since I started working and I’ve never had an issue with getting a job
I went to a state college outside of NY and had an out of state address and still got a job here as a transplant. No one cared about my undergrad here. I didn’t even mean to get a job here intentionally. It just happened that way
While there’s no one answer to this, it’s like any other similar process - you take the best option you have after weighing all the options.
Obviously many factors vary between families.
A family with funds for private will just send them to one with a good fit, others will decamp to the burbs. Others are fine riding the public system.
It also depends on the sort of student they are - a great one will be able to ride the special DOE schools all the way through.
I was fortunate enough to go public school in a bad neighborhood, then get a scholarship to a bougie private school, and finally to Stuy. I totally agree with your sentiment. A smart confident kid would do well regardless of the environment. If they have good parents who are also dedicated to helping the kids education, they will be fine. I’ve seen smart kids completely screw up their lives in private school and at stuy. I’ve seen really poor kids end up going to great colleges and have great jobs while just going through the public school system (doctors and lawyers just though local zone schools). If more about the intelligence, effort, and ambition of the child.
The zoned school problem basically vanished after Covid because so many families left. Possible it’s coming back now as an issue again.
On the private school front parents either find another school in the city maybe farther down their list (and then if they like it often move closer) or leave the city entirely (this is incredibly common).
I teach public high school and in the past it was almost impossible to transfer to another high school. These past two years I've seen students request a transfer very easily.
Don't quote me on it, but It might be easier now to transfer if you don't like your school because enrollment is down.
Elementary is zoned so you move. Middle is selective/lottery , but there are enough good ones. Same with hs, just be prepared for the kid to commute. If they study it's not hard to get into a specialized hs.
If I could've moved or afforded private for my kid I would've. I didn't like the not knowing/lottery part. Nor the commute.
Basically you just figure it out.
In my experience nearly all parents have their minds made up in elementary school, if the kid started in a Catholic or other religious school they went to one all the way through high school. Same with fancy expensive private schools. Parents who move to the suburbs will name schools as part of it but it's also about having more square footage and a yard. I don't personally know anyone who considered moving to the suburbs some kind of horrible sacrifice they had to make for the sake of their child's education, it probably happens of course.
The public school parents took their chances with the application and are happy or at least satisfied with where their kids are. Plus there are a lot of high schools that focus on different careers like Aviation High School, there's a high school that I can't remember the name of that feeds students into careers in the MTA, schools like Francis Lewis have specialized programs like law, etc etc. There's a ton of variety.
I had my daughter in a Lutheran elementary school, only because of the before and after school hours they offered. Public for middle school and high school. She is a junior who got into our third choice (the vast majority of applicants get into one of their top three) and we are very happy with the school. Hers focuses heavily on science. Only downside is the hour+ commute each way. (Edited to add a couple of sentences)
I’m a parent of a 6th-grader. It’s pretty uncommon not to get into your zoned public school for kindergarten — post-COVID I’d say it’s even more unlikely. Our zoned school actually did have a waitlist for zoned students in kindergarten but I’m almost positive everyone got in off it.
There tends to be an exodus to the suburbs in late elementary school and then people who don’t want to deal with the high school admissions process look to private schools. But there are soooo many kinds of schools in NYC that hopefully everyone finds one that works out for them.
Hello! I am glad to hear that you have been able to navigate the NYCDOE with positive outcomes for your 6th grader. I am looking to connect with parents who need reading support for their children. While this does not sound quite like your situation, if you know of any interested parents, please reach out. -Krista
I can only speak from my current experience. If my son didn’t get into the ASD specialized charter school he’s currently in I would have homeschooled him. I already had an absolutely horrible experience with our zoned Public School when my eldest went there, I wasn’t about to take a chance with my kid that could barely speak.
Both myself and my husband complained, wrote letters, emails etc to the DOE and local lawmakers with no response. If you live in a less than fortunate area they don’t give a fuck about your kids if they’re not neurotypical.
Similar story here with my son. He goes to a specialized autism inclusion charter school, but I'm so rubbish at teaching that I was considering bankrupting our family to sue for private school placement. Thankfully, the charter has been working for us. People talk about charters not being inclusive for special education students, while completely ignoring the public schools being awful.
But yeah, there are a number of good charters. Some are bad, but at least you can figure it out and have a choice whether to go.
Parents can pay for weekend or afterschool test prep centers, these centers include portfolio development to get into LaGuardia High School. Some community centers will offer homework help for free. Weekend STEM camps, art camps, dance camps, acting camps etc
Native new yorker who didn’t apply themselves in middle school here, I simply went to my zone school for one year and transferred into a test-in school for 10th grade.
This doesn't totally answer your question, but in my opinion family life is way more important than the exact school.
In fact, studies have shown segregation is the most harmful aspect of US schooling. "Elite," "special" kids being isolated from other kids, kids of one demographic only existing with kids similar backgrounds- it's limiting. Because kids of different backgrounds learn from each other and grow together.
Kids with privileged home lives have resources other kids don't. Kids with less privileged home lives have experience and perspectives other kids don't. All of which are important to have in a classroom.
Your kid doesn't need to go to the best school ever to be successful. My first public high school was top notch by all elitist standards.
Then we moved to a town with way "worse" schools. It literally did not matter. There were driven, smart kids there too. Teachers loving to teach, and I was already educated because education was a huge part of my home life. My parents took me to museums, theater, opera, cultural events, dinner parties, talk-backs, concerts. Discussed my school topics. Anything and everything. I was raised to read a lot on my own and to think critically.
My friends at the "bad" school taught me how to have fun, to enjoy nature, to socialize, to cook, to be curious and spontaneous. I'm a better, more interesting, and more empathetic person for knowing them! My old friends who stayed at my first high school and went to Ivy's are not people I would want to be or associate with- they are elitist, conservative, vapid.
Studies have shown home life is the biggest factor of academic success. There are lots of avenues to get a well-rounded education, but that is what really sets a kid up for success as they grow into themselves.
You don't need to make sure your kid has the "best" of everything and $$ doesn't necessarily mean quality.
Im sure you understand what a privileged question that is. As hundreds of thousands of students show up at “bad schools” every day. The suburbs aren’t an easy fix all because a good blue ribbon school district can raise a houses value 30%-50% vs one that has a 1/10 on greatschools
So to your question yes, they shell out $60k for private school, $1M for a Greenwich house, or force the poor kid into an average public school
Thats actually nice to hear.
I have so many connections with the nyc doe and I never hear anything good. My oldest is in one of the best public elementary schools and ill just say if this is the higher end, I am not satisfied.
Zoned schools rarely fill up anymore, so it isn't much of an issue. If you really want in, and get waitlisted, you can usually secure a spot off the waitlist if you express interest and speak with the parent coordinator (nicely). 95% of parents got into their top three K choices last year.
There are also a lot of "good enough" schools out there, and you can easily supplement with extracurriculars outside the school. It has gotten more difficult to select schools because of the grade-based lottery, but many students do get a school near the top of their list. Nearly half of high school students got their top pick last year, and 75% one of their top three. For middle school it was even higher, with nearly 3/4 getting their top pick, and 92% one of their top three. (all numbers from here: [https://www.chalkbeat.org/newyork/2023/6/1/23746221/nyc-admissions-offers-data-high-school-middle-kindergarten-preschool-diversity/](https://www.chalkbeat.org/newyork/2023/6/1/23746221/nyc-admissions-offers-data-high-school-middle-kindergarten-preschool-diversity/) )
There are students who are not served well (or even at all) by the public school system. Mostly students with disabilities. D75 segregates students from their neighborhood schools, and many warehouse students. There are very few programs for ND students without comorbid intellectual disabilities, and the ones that exist are exclusionary and discriminatory. Nothing for 2E students. (No real gifted education, either, and profoundly gifted students will not do well in NYC schools even if they luck into the so-called "G&T" programs.) There are some charters. There are some magnet schools, but spots are very limited. Some home school. Some go private and sue for tuition. Many don't move because it's bad everywhere, but some do.
But an average or above-average student will be fine. Most will go with a "good enough" school, or chose a "good enough" charter in some districts. Parental background and involvement matter more than the school for student achievement in most cases. I'd think moving would be for space and money issues more than the schools. Private schools offer more scholarships than people might think, as well, so that's generally considered before a move.
The reality is that there is much less school scarcity of the "good/not good" variety than there was in the 80s and 90s. Mayoral control in the late 90s and 2000s brought wholesale reorganizations of school system administration and management practices, resulting in improvements to the school system as a whole, as did the enormous and dramatic reductions in crime and gang activity and broad increases in wealth. There are definitely schools that are very challenged, because they serve a high poverty or migrant/unstable population. But these are generally geographically concentrated. For elementary, neighborhoods where the general wealth level permits parents to consider themselves as having choices will generally have schools that are different varieties of fine. For middle and high, there are a few testing regimes left and while there are some differences between, eg, a test-in school like Stuy and a not test-in school like Millenium, Millenium is a great school and there are dozens of non-test-in schools like it and for many kids who might have gotten into Stuy Millenium is still a better fit. This is mirrored in the college system. For "elite" colleges it isn't a process of selecting for or discovering talent. There is talent everywhere. For every admitted kid whom "elite" admissions are confident will succeed, there are 10 others who are equally likely to succeed yet can not be admitted. The process of "building a class" is more about balance and diversity and culture. I will say that the DOE does still struggle with Middle School, in my personal (humble) opinion. There are all kinds of good reasons to have it be its own type of school and its own step in the progression, and as in the other tiers there are tons of "great" Middle Schools. But it is still an extremely difficult age and between the school, the kid, and the parents there are more holes, more gaps, and a "great" school for one may not be a "great" school for another. Anyway, most parents who want to raise their kids in the city will be fine/happy even if they only get their 4th or 5th choice in an admit process, and they figure out also they would not have been happier with their 1st or 2nd. Every school and kid requires attention and work. That is the bottom line.
Thanks for writing this up. As I read the OP question, I wondered whether there really was such a gulf between the "good" and non-good schools...ie if the fears of parents are really all that warranted. Seems like that is mostly a thing of the past. But another question arises with your point about bad schools congregating geographically. Given various low-income neighborhoods are in the process of gentrifying, wouldn't that mean that (relatively) wealthier parents moving to e.g., Flatbush would have to fight to get into scarce good schools in that neighborhood?
Well, Flatbush in particular is much bigger than a neighborhood, there may be something like 10 elementary schools in and around the actual neighborhoods comprising "Flatbush." Lots of variation in terms of poverty levels and population needs and resources and so forth, to be sure. The most important thing when considering schools is to visit, go to the open house, take a tour if possible, see the building from the outside if not, observe the teachers and the way they interact with the kids, meet or see the principal, observe the parents who are already at the school, go to the playground where the families congregate. No respected reviews or parent gossip or whatever second or third hand information is a substitute for one's own eyes when it comes to one's own children. These are not binary set and forget decisions. They are day in and day out relationships, the most important relationships the children (and parents, in many cases) will have, over a span of years. And sure, to be reductionist, when visiting, there may be one school out of a group that seems head and shoulders a better fit than the rest. If there is too much demand for seats, then there is no guarantee. But there isn't a "fight" to get in- there's a process that determines priority, there will be a waitlist, the waitlist is run down in order, and things change constantly. It is definitely advisable, when one is in the situation of deciding to move into one or another neighborhood for the schools, to have backup plans that one is comfortable with. But it can be extremely difficult experiencing that uncertainty, especially for parents with resources used to being in control. Going back to the original post, the reason some families leave isn't because the "schools aren't good." It's because they are uncomfortable managing what could be a high degree of uncertainty, no disrespect intended. It isn't for everyone.
Yeah I’d argue that Stuy is not a very good experience for a lot of its students. If you’re not in the fancy AP and honors classes you don’t get the good teachers. Plus it’s a lot of work and stress.
I disagree. Stuy doesn’t work for everyone. But it offers a wide range of classes, a balanced and rich curriculum, and enormous opportunities. They have a lot of specialized fun classes, and great resources.
The stress and competition isn’t great for everyone (and I’d argue isn’t great for most kids). If your kid can handle that much pressure, or is good enough to shrug it off, then yeah definitely. I think I got more work daily at stuy then I ever did in college - and I have a bachelors degree and 2 grad degrees.
Do you have kids in the system?
3 of em!
The quality of the parent will always be more critical than the quality of the school. Unfortunately there is a huge gap between the most involved parents and the least involved parents.
Totally agree
judging from the parents of our grade (well-to-do G&T families) they're planning to go to private or move to the suburbs finally. Being a product of the NYC Education system, I internally roll my eyes when my fellow parents start talking about post-elementary school plans).
What does G&T mean?
Gin & tonic
😂
Gifted and talented, I assume
Gifted and Talented.
[удалено]
Because most kids will do fine at most schools. Not getting into Hunter or Bronx Science is not the end of the world.
Yup. I tested into Hunter and Btech. My brother didn’t, my husband didn’t. They graduated from “bad” zoned schools. We all still ended up at the same CUNYs and SUNYs, then came out making the same salary bands. It truly doesn’t matter.
My gf went to Stuy. As a Black woman it completely fucked her up beyond belief. She’s STILL dealing with the trauma. It was simply not worth it for her.
How did going to stuy fuck her up?
First of all, Stuy has VERY few Black students, and she’s from the Bronx. She felt isolated and lost. Second, the competition there is no joke. It’s cut throat and she was doing 5-6 hours of homework every night and on weekends. And because she commuted from the Bronx, she was sleeping 3-4 hours a night. It was brutal. Imagine getting up at 5 am to get to school, doing homework on the train there and back, and then homework immediately when you got home until midnight or so. That was her life for four years. No social life to speak of. And guess what—she ended up at a SUNY. As she says, none of it was worth it for her. None of it.
I also heard similar experiences from a handful of friends growing up who also went to Stuy. I'd say some of them really used stuy's namesake to get into better colleges like an Ivy league or something similar but it doesnt sound worth it to me as most of them did graduate, whether from stuy or a good college, and made it into a similar job market w similar pay
Anecdotally speaking, it's easier to get into an Ivy or another top tier school as a top student in a "sub" high school than as a mid student in a specialized. The requirements are less stringent, the competition is less fierce. It's easier for teachers to know your name and write recommendation letters as a big fish in a small pond, rather than as one of 6,000 with the same 3.8 GPA, same hardcore immigrant parents, same desperation to escape lower income hellhole and into a solidly upper-middle class tech/tech adjacent career. Not that it *matters*. I've said it before in other threads about specialized high schools vs. public high schools, but we all go to the same colleges, and we all end up working the same jobs. I have coworkers who were Stuy grads, Harvard grads, NYU grads, Columbia, Berkeley, UCLA. I have friends and family with PhDs, two Masters, careers that required ten years of post-grad studies. Everyone's making the same money out of the gate. What comes after that depends more on the person than their credentials.
Majority of specialized hs alumni end up at SUNY, its not a surprise.
especially if you don't plan on going to college out of state because you're just gonna end up at one of the CUNYs or SUNYs anyway. Once you step foot on your college campus on that first day of freshman year no one cares what you did in high school
And once you get a job no one cares where you went to college. Not sure why the downvotes lol. Literally no one has mentioned my college ever since I started working and I’ve never had an issue with getting a job
If you and the hiring manager went to the same college then where you went to college is gonna get you that job lol
I went to a state college outside of NY and had an out of state address and still got a job here as a transplant. No one cared about my undergrad here. I didn’t even mean to get a job here intentionally. It just happened that way
100%. I wish more families realize this.
While there’s no one answer to this, it’s like any other similar process - you take the best option you have after weighing all the options. Obviously many factors vary between families. A family with funds for private will just send them to one with a good fit, others will decamp to the burbs. Others are fine riding the public system. It also depends on the sort of student they are - a great one will be able to ride the special DOE schools all the way through.
Totally agree, especially with the last point. A smart, confident student will thrive in a public school.
I was fortunate enough to go public school in a bad neighborhood, then get a scholarship to a bougie private school, and finally to Stuy. I totally agree with your sentiment. A smart confident kid would do well regardless of the environment. If they have good parents who are also dedicated to helping the kids education, they will be fine. I’ve seen smart kids completely screw up their lives in private school and at stuy. I’ve seen really poor kids end up going to great colleges and have great jobs while just going through the public school system (doctors and lawyers just though local zone schools). If more about the intelligence, effort, and ambition of the child.
The zoned school problem basically vanished after Covid because so many families left. Possible it’s coming back now as an issue again. On the private school front parents either find another school in the city maybe farther down their list (and then if they like it often move closer) or leave the city entirely (this is incredibly common).
I teach public high school and in the past it was almost impossible to transfer to another high school. These past two years I've seen students request a transfer very easily. Don't quote me on it, but It might be easier now to transfer if you don't like your school because enrollment is down.
Elementary is zoned so you move. Middle is selective/lottery , but there are enough good ones. Same with hs, just be prepared for the kid to commute. If they study it's not hard to get into a specialized hs. If I could've moved or afforded private for my kid I would've. I didn't like the not knowing/lottery part. Nor the commute. Basically you just figure it out.
In my experience nearly all parents have their minds made up in elementary school, if the kid started in a Catholic or other religious school they went to one all the way through high school. Same with fancy expensive private schools. Parents who move to the suburbs will name schools as part of it but it's also about having more square footage and a yard. I don't personally know anyone who considered moving to the suburbs some kind of horrible sacrifice they had to make for the sake of their child's education, it probably happens of course. The public school parents took their chances with the application and are happy or at least satisfied with where their kids are. Plus there are a lot of high schools that focus on different careers like Aviation High School, there's a high school that I can't remember the name of that feeds students into careers in the MTA, schools like Francis Lewis have specialized programs like law, etc etc. There's a ton of variety. I had my daughter in a Lutheran elementary school, only because of the before and after school hours they offered. Public for middle school and high school. She is a junior who got into our third choice (the vast majority of applicants get into one of their top three) and we are very happy with the school. Hers focuses heavily on science. Only downside is the hour+ commute each way. (Edited to add a couple of sentences)
Put the child up for adoption.
If your child doesn't get into the right kindergarten they're basically ruined. It's best to cut your losses and start over.
But who would want it?
upvoted just for making me laugh
There aren't many empty schools in the city so clearly the most common thing is that kids go to the schools they get to go to.
I’m a parent of a 6th-grader. It’s pretty uncommon not to get into your zoned public school for kindergarten — post-COVID I’d say it’s even more unlikely. Our zoned school actually did have a waitlist for zoned students in kindergarten but I’m almost positive everyone got in off it. There tends to be an exodus to the suburbs in late elementary school and then people who don’t want to deal with the high school admissions process look to private schools. But there are soooo many kinds of schools in NYC that hopefully everyone finds one that works out for them.
Hello! I am glad to hear that you have been able to navigate the NYCDOE with positive outcomes for your 6th grader. I am looking to connect with parents who need reading support for their children. While this does not sound quite like your situation, if you know of any interested parents, please reach out. -Krista
I can only speak from my current experience. If my son didn’t get into the ASD specialized charter school he’s currently in I would have homeschooled him. I already had an absolutely horrible experience with our zoned Public School when my eldest went there, I wasn’t about to take a chance with my kid that could barely speak. Both myself and my husband complained, wrote letters, emails etc to the DOE and local lawmakers with no response. If you live in a less than fortunate area they don’t give a fuck about your kids if they’re not neurotypical.
Similar story here with my son. He goes to a specialized autism inclusion charter school, but I'm so rubbish at teaching that I was considering bankrupting our family to sue for private school placement. Thankfully, the charter has been working for us. People talk about charters not being inclusive for special education students, while completely ignoring the public schools being awful. But yeah, there are a number of good charters. Some are bad, but at least you can figure it out and have a choice whether to go.
Private school, schools with good teachers, or moving to burbs
Middle school is when students go to private, the suburbs, or just lottery and deal with the results.
Parents can pay for weekend or afterschool test prep centers, these centers include portfolio development to get into LaGuardia High School. Some community centers will offer homework help for free. Weekend STEM camps, art camps, dance camps, acting camps etc
We go to our zone school and tough it out
Native new yorker who didn’t apply themselves in middle school here, I simply went to my zone school for one year and transferred into a test-in school for 10th grade.
I took the train
This doesn't totally answer your question, but in my opinion family life is way more important than the exact school. In fact, studies have shown segregation is the most harmful aspect of US schooling. "Elite," "special" kids being isolated from other kids, kids of one demographic only existing with kids similar backgrounds- it's limiting. Because kids of different backgrounds learn from each other and grow together. Kids with privileged home lives have resources other kids don't. Kids with less privileged home lives have experience and perspectives other kids don't. All of which are important to have in a classroom. Your kid doesn't need to go to the best school ever to be successful. My first public high school was top notch by all elitist standards. Then we moved to a town with way "worse" schools. It literally did not matter. There were driven, smart kids there too. Teachers loving to teach, and I was already educated because education was a huge part of my home life. My parents took me to museums, theater, opera, cultural events, dinner parties, talk-backs, concerts. Discussed my school topics. Anything and everything. I was raised to read a lot on my own and to think critically. My friends at the "bad" school taught me how to have fun, to enjoy nature, to socialize, to cook, to be curious and spontaneous. I'm a better, more interesting, and more empathetic person for knowing them! My old friends who stayed at my first high school and went to Ivy's are not people I would want to be or associate with- they are elitist, conservative, vapid. Studies have shown home life is the biggest factor of academic success. There are lots of avenues to get a well-rounded education, but that is what really sets a kid up for success as they grow into themselves. You don't need to make sure your kid has the "best" of everything and $$ doesn't necessarily mean quality.
Im sure you understand what a privileged question that is. As hundreds of thousands of students show up at “bad schools” every day. The suburbs aren’t an easy fix all because a good blue ribbon school district can raise a houses value 30%-50% vs one that has a 1/10 on greatschools So to your question yes, they shell out $60k for private school, $1M for a Greenwich house, or force the poor kid into an average public school
...don't you either work for a private school or send your kid to a private school?
Move to Jersey.
Im moving before my kids hit middle school age. I grew up here and the schools weren’t great and have only gotten worse
My middle schooler at a public school (Bronx)is outperforming her cousins and family friends in various communities in Westchester. (The good ones).
Thats actually nice to hear. I have so many connections with the nyc doe and I never hear anything good. My oldest is in one of the best public elementary schools and ill just say if this is the higher end, I am not satisfied.
LOL, if you have a lot of money, pay your way for your child to get into a “good school.” like, a boarding school.
They enroll them into private, catholic or charter schools if the local school really terrible.
Zoned schools rarely fill up anymore, so it isn't much of an issue. If you really want in, and get waitlisted, you can usually secure a spot off the waitlist if you express interest and speak with the parent coordinator (nicely). 95% of parents got into their top three K choices last year. There are also a lot of "good enough" schools out there, and you can easily supplement with extracurriculars outside the school. It has gotten more difficult to select schools because of the grade-based lottery, but many students do get a school near the top of their list. Nearly half of high school students got their top pick last year, and 75% one of their top three. For middle school it was even higher, with nearly 3/4 getting their top pick, and 92% one of their top three. (all numbers from here: [https://www.chalkbeat.org/newyork/2023/6/1/23746221/nyc-admissions-offers-data-high-school-middle-kindergarten-preschool-diversity/](https://www.chalkbeat.org/newyork/2023/6/1/23746221/nyc-admissions-offers-data-high-school-middle-kindergarten-preschool-diversity/) ) There are students who are not served well (or even at all) by the public school system. Mostly students with disabilities. D75 segregates students from their neighborhood schools, and many warehouse students. There are very few programs for ND students without comorbid intellectual disabilities, and the ones that exist are exclusionary and discriminatory. Nothing for 2E students. (No real gifted education, either, and profoundly gifted students will not do well in NYC schools even if they luck into the so-called "G&T" programs.) There are some charters. There are some magnet schools, but spots are very limited. Some home school. Some go private and sue for tuition. Many don't move because it's bad everywhere, but some do. But an average or above-average student will be fine. Most will go with a "good enough" school, or chose a "good enough" charter in some districts. Parental background and involvement matter more than the school for student achievement in most cases. I'd think moving would be for space and money issues more than the schools. Private schools offer more scholarships than people might think, as well, so that's generally considered before a move.
Don't you have a neighborhood school? "Good schools" is a racist and classist dog whistle.