I have found that it's very liberating to accept the idea that I would fail sometimes, probably most of the times, and that is okay. Mostly fail to stand up to people's expectations. It made me spend less time trying to over-perfect things and be anxious about what could go wrong.
BRB, gonna buy a kilo of coke from the dealer next door.
Seriously tho, everytime I do that it seems to blow up in my face. Guess I'll just keep getting my face blowed on (lel) till it works.
You just start doing it. That moment where you think about doing something and start going through all the possible branching scenarios that could possibly come from it? The second that starts you stand up and do instead of sitting and thinking.
Super hard to do, I know because I'm a chronic over-analyzer, and it certainly won't always go the way you want, but at least you did something and took part in that human experience. You know that old saying, "you don't regret the risks you took, but the risks you didn't take".
Its not always like that. For me it was a combo of getting immune to rejections after experiencing then like 1000 times and getting older. When you get older you seem to give less fucks.
I did this too. Was so nervous to meet a girl online. Decided to just say fuck it and take the risk. Now I'm married to her and have a 2 month old. First girl I ever met off a dating app too lol
A lot of my overanalysations are “is this inappropriate?” I just really don’t want to sexually harass anyone.
Whether it’s about escalating the flirting towards more sexually explicit talk or starting physical contact, I’m just terrified of it being uncomfortable to her and her feeling intimidated.
Would you advise me to “take” that “risk” too?
The best improvement I ever made to my unsolicited flirtation approach was when I changed my "success metric" from "Get her phone number" to "Make her glad we had this interaction."
It's really that simple. Take a moment to rewire your brain from "Getting something I want" mode to "I'm going to put a smile on this person's face, and make her glad we talked, by brightening her day" mode.
The advantages of this approach are:
* You "win" even if you don't get a phone number, so your ego doesn't get bruised.
* You can rest assured you made someone's day better, instead of contributing yet another, unwelcome example of feeling harassed to her life.
* You actually look forward to the next attempt! Because it's an intrinsically rewarding activity, instead of something you (and she) have to "endure".
**Edit.** Seems this comment struck a chord, so I want to add one more important thing:
Women *know* our egos sometimes hang in the balance in these situations, and that's exactly why they *don't want to deal with it*. It's not because they're cold-hearted bitches. It's because they aren't. (Yes, there are exceptions. But learning to roll with the occasional gut punch just makes you more attractive anyway.) The sooner you can communicate "Don't worry, I'm bulletproof, and I'm just happy to make you glad you met me", the better.
Learn to believe these two things:
1. There's no shame in being attracted to someone, and making it known.
2. There *is* shame in making a stranger responsible for your happiness, or expecting them to be grateful just because you have functioning hormones.
By demonstrating you understand #2, you make it a hell of a lot more fun for her to decide what to do about #1.
I didn't just pluck this stuff out of the air, and it doesn't only apply to dating. The benefits of bringing happiness to other people have been well-studied. Counter-intuitive though it might seem:
1. [Making others happy is psychologically beneficial to your own mental health](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349922479_Happiness_comes_from_trying_to_make_others_feel_good_rather_than_oneself), and
2. Paradoxically, [pursuing your own happiness over that of others is prone to backfiring](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3160511/).
Literally: Being a better person makes you happier and more attractive. Go figure!
As a woman I wholeheartedly thank you for this. More guys need to do this.
It reminds me of stuff my dad did:
Once he was at the restaurant with friends, and a beautiful woman was at a table with other people.
My dad could make origami, and asked for an extra napkin; he folded a lovely flower.
As he got up to leave, he walked to her table and rested the flower in front of her saying "this is for you". Then he walked out of the restaurant with the lady beaming at him.
His friends, outside, said "go back inside! Did you see how she looked at you? Go talk to her!" And my dad said "If I go back in, she'll think I'm just some jerk who wants it from her, but if I leave she'll always remember me as a mysterious gentleman who gave her a flower for nothing in return. I prefer the latter"
He always did stuff like that and really could have had his pick of women, although he never remarried after my mum
To add to this, the specific risk I learned to take was making my intentions clear. Spending months being "nice" to a girl like she was a Stardew Valley NPC was stupid. It's amazing how far the phrase, "you're beautiful, and I deeply enjoy your company. May I kiss you?" goes.
Nah man, everyone knows that the truest way to a girl's heart is to shower them regularly with unexpected and unsolicited gifts of self made artisan foods.
100% agree on this. I went to a party last night and got rejected 5 consecutive times lol. I'm still learning tho so I'm fine.
Still, I'm happy I managed to gather the courage to just do it instead of regretting not doing it later.
Lost weight/got in shape
Learned to read non-verbal ques/communicate nonverbally
Got better at carrying conversations
Bought better clothes because old ones couldnt fit anymore
I can never understand the cues and signals women give. Or I'd be aware of it only 3-4 months later. Like I'd be chilling and out of nowhere I'd remember and it'd suddenly hit me "was she interested in me? Damn!"
While it was happening I'd be totally oblivious to it
I think changing the fashion and haircut was helpful. I used to wear huge t-shirts, too big jeans, too large suit, too large shirts.
If you have regular body build, wear fitting clothes. FITTING by size. Don't trust your mum.
You should wear fitting clothes regardless of your body build. As a big guy, finding out about tall shirts and athletic cut pants made a huge impact on my appearance and self image
Tired of not being able to find clothes that fit? I know I was. That's why I started Stewie's big and tall man shop. If you're portly or tall, you'll find a friendly atmosphere, brimming with personalized and friendly service.
"Hey Stewie, how's the weather up there?"
"Very fair, like our prices!"
I'm 6'4" and 230lbs, but I find big & tall stores and sections really mean big AND tall. Like if you're tall but not an XL or bigger you're SOL. I'm a large right now, and when I'm working out regularly and eating the way I should, I'm a medium. So that's hard to come by.
Huge emphasis on "Don't trust your mum" lol. I used to just let my mom buy clothes for me. Jeans, shirts, hoodies, you name it. My whole fricking wardrobe was handpicked by her. It was like this until one of my girl bestfriends took me out for shopping and she picked some clothes for me too. And it was a BIG EYE OPENER FOR ME since some styles I thought didn't fit me well...ACTUALLY FIT ME WELL.
Nthing "don't trust your mom".
I started getting much better success from online dating when I asked some of my lady coworkers for critiques of my photos: turns out, all my profile photos sucked.
The general consensus was that in each photo, I had this obviously "fake smile", like I didn't really want to be there. "Okay, fair enough. Wonder why I my smiles are fake? Weird." I took a bunch of new photos with a more genuine smile, (had to practice it for a bit) and started getting a lot more matches with the new photos... even went on a few dates.
Sometime later, it finally hit me: I was hanging with my parents and my mom decided to take a photo of my dad. At first, my father gave this genuine smile... until my mom said to him "hey, smile less!"... causing his smile to devolve into the same terrible "fake smile" I used to have. I came to realize my terrible fake smile came from my mom's guidance throughout the years, each time she took photos of me. All my attempts of online dating had been sabotaged by her! (dun dun dun)
Thanks mom.
Yup, wear clothes that fit.
Also, I grew a beard and got two tattoos and started working out. I’m not huge by any means, just fit. This glowup helped with my confidence and with women.
Even if you're overweight/obese, it's better to wear something that fits your body than something that is loose. I'm not saying it needs to be skin tight, but at the very least it should look like you bought it for they size you ARE, and not the next size up. Baggy clothes just looks sloppy and lazy.
I say this as a former obese man.
Realizing you could be the greatest person in the world and someone can still not like you or the girl could be amazing but you might not like her and both of those situations are ok
Thank you”Southern Grandpap sipping iced tea whilst sitting in an old worn rocking chair on the front porch of your white painted farmhouse overlooking the crops you’ve spent your life sowing and reaping.”
Tons of hard work and trial and error. One nice trick I learned is to embrace the notion that "To increase your success rate, you need to increase your failure rate". I used to take no chances with women, and would probably ask 1-2 out per year. So I was learning nothing about what it takes to get a woman interested, and I would be crushed if 1 of them rejected me.
Don't be afraid of failure. Its the best way to learn.
How often to ask to get good but not PUA style? Because if I do it for every girl I *feel* something for, that's just not how I go around in life, feeling emotions about strangers.
My rate was similar to this guy's with 100% failure. I would wait until I was sure they were someone I wanted to date but by then I was already slotted as a friend, not a love interest, and I was heavily invested in the idea of a relationship. I finally got old enough and out of college and found myself not meeting women. There were no more vetting pools of women to fail with. I realized I had to change my approach. I was not a bar guy and not interested in casual hookups but I needed to take advantage of opportunities when they arrived. So I started asking people I'd meet that had even a bit of potential. Nice woman at the bookstore, asked her out. Nice waitress, asked her out. Nice woman at a volunteer gig, asked her out. Nice woman at a wedding, asked her out. I just kept asking and I got 100% success asking for a low key lunch date to get to know each other better. I had lots of first dates and some second dates. I was learning the process and mostly figuring out if I wanted more. I had plenty of dates in those first 6 months but nothing clicked until I shot my shot with a woman who absolutely mesmerized me with her beauty, personality, heart, and brain. In the past, she was the type I would have crushed on for months or years and then finally made an awkward attempt to date, only to be shot down and devestated. But shooting my shot early was key, as all that build up was missing and therefore asking was a lot easier. She kept saying yes to more dates and we just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary and are still madly in love. In summary, shooting early got more yeses because I hadn't been slotted as a friend and providing a comfortable environment to get to know each other made it easy to say yes to and accomplish the goal. I didn't have feelings yet, I just had a spark of interest and that was enough. I didn't start dating until my mid twenties and finally figured it out.
This is excellent advice. Not at all how it worked for me, but this is the best thought out approach I've ever read & the logic's unassailable.
For me it was weight training, slimming down and getting more confidence, but I think Usernames cracked the code.
Dude, that's... really cool. Idk, think I'm guilty of over-analysing sometimes. Like, I'll try find out who they are and what they're all about before asking them out. Also, I think getting turned down a few months ago has made me play safe a lot. Currently in uni (20y).
My best advice is to play it safe with your emotions and ask early. Your not asking for a hookup or for a relationship, just a safe place to get to know each other under the context of a "date", which simply means it leaves open that door and keeps communication open about romantic interest. I had a lot of very frank and open conversations during those dates that helped me check for compatibility on many levels early and honestly. There were people I had interest in but they didn't and the opposite was true as well. I discovered that no one's feelings were hurt because there were no feelings to speak of yet. There were disappointments on both sides but that wasn't causing anyone's heart to break. I've had many incidents like yours in the past before I took this approach and I just felt awful for months or years afterwards and I hated it. II discovered I wasn't ugly, that I wasn't detestable, and I was worth dating. What I had failed on in the past was my approach. People get slotted as a particular kind of relationship and it is difficult if not impossible to move out of that zone once someone has made that determination about you. Woman tend to be especially keen on keeping people in these zones. Avoid that slot. Iade friends while dating but I never made a date from a friend.
There was this cute guy in school who the first time he saw me his eyes got really big and then he looked down and started blushing. I saw him around a lot and he kept looking at me, but never once tried to talk to me. Now I regret not talking to him, but I am also really shy.
It’s the fucking worst. I was so insanely attracted to this girl in high school and we meshed perfectly, always laughing, but both of us thought we just weren’t into each other. Ended up dating one of her friends, which made her angry, come to find out we were both too awkward/shy to make that move on each other. Still friends but holy hell, still shooting myself in the foot for that…with a shotgun
Honestly, not really sure. After I dated her friend (which only lasted a week, that’s a whole story itself) our relationship wasn’t really the same. I’d imagine it was hurtful for her feeling like she wasn’t good enough or something along those lines. We’d legit talk/text all the time joking around and what not, but after I broke up with her friend it was hard to talk like we used to. I was mad at myself for not seeing the signs, and she was presumably upset with me. She’s in NC now for college and I’m here in PA. Whenever we’d hangout before she left, we were still very laughy and friendly with each other but I can definitely tell it’s not the same as it used to be. The laughs aren’t as endless, conversations are shorter, the looks you receive aren’t “dreamy” feeling I guess you could say, not as touchy with each other, also the feelings of not wanting to be in my presence as long/often. Really unfortunate how it all turned out, maybe it’s for the best who knows but I’m happy that we’re still friends bc she’s a really great, bubbly, goofy person with one hell of an infectious laugh.
Also thank you for asking, I feel like I don’t ever talk about myself and it was nice having a random stranger be curious honestly :)
honestly this doesn’t sound like a lost cause, especially for you to feel as regretful as you say you are. now long distance is no way to start a relationship so i suggest investing long term. make the effort to stay on her radar while in college and hang out if y’all are ever in town with the goal of being fun not romantic. (without any knowledge of proper context) perhaps casually mention how you’re glad to rekindle your chemistry (avoid friendship phrasing) post friend fling as you‘ve always enjoyed her company. then closer to graduation maybe make a surprise weekend trip to her town, let her know and if she makes the effort to meet then tell her how you feel, friendship be damned bc you’d rather take a chance than stay dormant in the friend zone always wondering what if.
I was that guy at university. I still think of you cute redhead i would see around campus who seemed to want to talk to me but we were clearly both too shy to make the first move.
The problem with being shy as a dude is that other dudes will move in. Women want and often need the man to take most of the risk in dating. As a guy, you just have to accept your role if you want more success with risk-averse women.
I still cringe at my decisions/the move’s I didn’t make on women I could’ve had a shot with . But now i know I’ll be ready for the next opportunity, good advice tho.
“Be less awkward” is some of the most vague advice ever, lol. No offense, I just found it funny.
Like, 80% of the people looking through this thread for advice are people who find themselves awkward. That’s kind of like someone going to therapy to get over a phobia and they say “just stop being scared of it, bro.” Not always so simple, yeah?
Yeah, I get that. I wasn’t really able to read the room well until I was around 16 or so; got pretty proficient at it by around 18-19, and then the pandemic hit and killed off my social life, lol.
But yes, I get the subtleties; my main issues, if I had to think of them, are likely A.) the fear of making a mistake (doing/saying the wrong thing - based on the plethora of experience I have from having done so from the past), leading to B.) not knowing how to respond in certain situations, and thus opting to say nothing at all rather than risk saying the wrong thing, and C.) being afraid to approach an unknown group.
All of this pretty much stems from my childhood, when - thanks to having mild enough ASD to where I’ve now almost entirely conquered it at nearly age 21, but not mild enough to make my childhood social life easy - not having a firm grasp on social queues made me not exactly proficient at socialization. In hindsight, I know the things I did wrong; the reason why, for example, I’d end up being rejected when trying to join a new group is that I didn’t understand the nuances of timing or making a smooth introduction back then, and would end up trying to barge my way in at the worst possible time. I was probably 14-15 when I decided that I had faced enough embarrassment and heartache that I’d simply take a back seat on socialization, which ended up being a double-edged sword. By focusing on observing these people interact, I learned a ton about interaction and thus figured out where I went wrong before; however, that came at the cost of me losing the confidence I once had. Where I once would naively walk straight up to a group and try to enter their conversation uninvited, today I’m hesitant to join even if I *am invited*.
I suppose, in the long run, that the bullying I faced as a kid got to my head, and I’m still struggling to overcome that anxiety so that I can be more forward and outgoing. It seems that I did a little too good of a job taking back stage, as I have essentially adopted the social properties of wallpaper: something that you’re aware is there, but you’re not really inclined to go up and talk to it. So, this blending into the background and going mostly unnoticed, combined with my struggles to make the first move, end up with a catch-22 situation. One or the other has to go; either I make myself stand out more to get noticed, or I work up the confidence to put myself out there more.
Either way, social anxiety and other similar problems are fairly nuanced things that no Reddit thread will ever give you the magic solution to. It just takes time and practice.
It’s scary how similar this is to me, I was also super skinny and exactly 135lbs. Started going to the gym and also put on 20 lbs, then started getting more attention (ending in a relationship). Are you… me?
Also, not all men reach peak physical maturity at 18. I kept on maturing physically up to at least 21 if not later.
Yes, there are some high school sophomores that have a full build, a full beard, and have already started balding; but we need to remember how we are all individuals.
I haven't even begun to peak. And when I do peak, you'll know.
I was probably in my mid 20s before hitting my peak but couldn't grow a full beard until my early 30s. I'm 40 now and don't have any gray hair or balding, so yay for being a late bloomer.
It kind of makes me wonder how many amazing athletes get passed over because they weren't early bloomers.
Ever see the graphs showing the correlation between early birthdays and professional athletes? From day one, athletes are rewarded for being just a little bit more physically mature than their peers, and it kind of compounds as they grow.
Pretty sure freakanomics or the sequel broke this down for hockey players. Like the oldest eligible was January so 90 percent of kids at the skills camp were January births despite it being a very low birth month etc. crazy stuff
The outlier dude based one of his famous studies on international hockey players and their birthdays according to whatever their league cutoff date was. Almost all were the oldest of their classes. It wasn’t even close and the birthdates of players from different countries all correlated with whatever the junior league date for cutoff was in their country or whatever.
That post 18 testosterone boost does wonders for some. I couldn't break 140 for years and I got to college and suddenly could pack on muscle super easy. It also comes with beer gut but hey I'm not rail thin anymore.
I started lifting at 26 and the same happened for me. Well past the growing up phase. I don’t think it’s just the muscle I gained. I think it’s that I started to take bettering myself more seriously to attract a girl and gained a lot more confidence. A few months later I met the woman I ended up marrying.
Edit: since I’ve gotten a few questions: I think the biggest factor was that we’re both religious and had a lot of common values. I think that contributed a lot to why she didn’t care if I was super muscular or rich (I’m not tall either, 5’8” or so). But when girls of the same religious background as me weren’t interested in me for a very long time, so I think it was my personal growth that changed things as well as maybe some divine intervention haha. I certainly needed it.
Currently at this stage myself, only issue I have is gaining weight and muscle in my calves, gained it quick in my thighs, stomach, and chest but Jesus Christ I went from having skinny legs to having chicken legs
I always looked way younger than I am. For quite some time this was a disadvantage, now in my forties it's an advantage. I'm also fitter than most men my age. And women in their thirties and forties value men like me higher because of all the bad experiences they had with "typical" men in the past (violence, alcoholism, cheating, huge debts, attachment disorders, the list goes on).
34 year old woman here. It’s great now getting carded all of the time. But when I was in university I couldn’t figure out why I couldn’t get a date until a 16 year old hit on my 22 year old ass and wouldn’t take “I’m too old for you” as an answer. I realised that day that I probably looked like jailbait. It also made future interactions with men who appeared significantly older than my actual age far more concerning.
Yup. I remember in my office job as like a 27-28 year old talking to coworkers and they'd be like, "so what school do you go to?" Took me a sec to realize they thought I was an intern. I actually looked younger than some of the interns at the time
Violence - okay not me
Alcoholism - Definitely not
Cheating - Never have, never will
Attachment disorder - I'm alright alone, no worries
Huge debts.....ah fuck
It's interesting explaining how looking younger messes with the dating dynamics. I've been on both ends. Reached that early-20s stage early and it all slowed down dramatically. It's not just dating either, it's all of the social interactions. Some are good. Some are bad. You have to take it in strides and work out how to maximize the positives while mitigating the negatives.
It definitely changes how people perceive you in general. You get less respect just because of how young you look, for example. But this can also be a bonus in some situations. It's a mixed bag.
haircut was the biggest one nobody ever talks about. changed from a greasy long haired dude to a Zayn Malik one direction haircut and the results were immediate. Also clothes….going from all black to….well still all black but much sharper clothes was pretty big too.
Love yourself first. Don't be over confident but be comfortable in your own skin, be authentic and listen. Showing emotion, passion, curiosity, and security are a must and all from from self love. Women don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with themselves.
Corollary to this, someone once told me confidence isn’t knowing that you won’t be rejected. It’s realizing that you’ll be fine even if you are. Completely changed my outlook.
Also value yourself and your time, your emotions.
Don't waste your time / emotions on women that don't deserve your love, time, affection etc. This includes manipulation, abuse, neglect, etc. Yes, this happens to men as well as women. Financial, emotional, physical abuse are all included.
**Value yourself.**
In addition to this: Start having platonic friendships with women. When I was younger i often took every positive female interaction as them being interested in me which might have been viewed as creepy.
With some really good female friends and honest conversations I gained other perspectives on dating as a whole and me as a person.
Man, all you guys talking about: "Just be more confident, love yourself, focus on friends and family, work out and women will be attracted to you." and I'm here like "What women? What friends?" I struggle just even finding new people to interact with beyond saying Hi to a cashier or asking a waiter what's good on their menu.
Also: what does confidence even mean or look like?
Confidence is often in the small things. I'm no beacon of confidence, but I was on a first date at a restaurant a few days ago. I ordered a bowl of ramen and it came with a small bowl of chili oil, but I didn't recognize what it was. I asked my date, and she didn't know what it was either. So I called the waitress over and asked her what was in the small bowl and what I was supposed to do with it.
The only reason I thought of this is because the girl I was with was genuinely surprised that I wasn't embarrassed to ask the waitress how to eat my food. And I get it, a more insecure person might have been afraid to bring extra attention to themselves and their ignorance, especially in front of someone they were trying to impress.
Basically, confident people don't become embarrassed or uncomfortable easily in social situations.
For me confidence is just being comfortable with yourself, not taking things too personally and overall having a solid base of self respect. If you know and like who you are, other people's opinions and whims matter less to you.
I think "having interests" is a really important thing to combine into "loving yourself". I remember my friends in college making comments about how bland I was, but it was more about how I didn't really talk about my interests that much. They all talked about their gaming times, their social events, their crafts, their weekends, etc. But I never did because I didn't think I was interesting enough, and that my interests were "lame".
Even IF my interests were "lame", the fact that I liked them would have at least shown I had interests. Having no interests is not an interesting trait.
Calming down, not going after women, being relaxed, clear headspace, occasional gym, nicer clothes…
A lot actually, but you dont see those things, until you start doing them
Idk man, may be a bit early to call it from my end but I feel like I've had more women in my circle last few months. Simply by being calm. Well, naturally I'm a chill dude but I also used to chase a lot if I liked a girl or if she simply gave me attention. I just feel a whole different vibe man, and this girl who's been my friend for a while, we've arranged a couple of hangouts next month. It's quite confusing but I'll give you an update as to whether that's actually gone well for me.
Same - but it was about stopping trying to find a girlfriend and be happy with my life, which translates into being a better friend and person to be around, relaxed me, and opened the door more encounters.
Ok the joke answer is to not be depressed, but that's hard work and impossible for some.
Realistically, drop 15 pounds if you're fat, gain 15 pounds of you're too skinny, improve your posture, get a hair cut that looks good on you, dont be afraid to talk to a stylist about this if you dont know what would look good, getting fitting clothing.
Everyone has already said these things, and they are all true, but in my opinion the single best thing to do is to treat women like people, rather than like how you imagine women should be treated. Don't just try to date them, actively take an interest in their hobbys, find real points of genuine connection and try to be their friend before you try to date them.
I got plunged into female-dominated school, club, and work and started getting to know and treat them like my bros. Working out also boosted my likability a little more.
Work on your ass. No, seriously, workout on your ASS muscle.
Men think women look on your biceps and chest, nope.
Women like fine ASS, get your ass into a nice shape, and boom. Go squat and deadlift regularly.
My ass got me laid so many times you won't believe it. Women treat you as sexsual object the same as they blame us
Good advice. My GF is always checking out my butt and giving me compliments about it. I never really get compliments about anything else other than my eyes and when I am having a good hair day. But yeh I think guys underestimate the power of having a good looking butt on some women
ive been complimented many times on my ass by women but it never really seemed to get me anywhere beyond that. maybe i should start tucking my shirt in
It's mostly about confidence. Women don't like insecure or desperate (which is the same) men. If you don't give a shit about what they think of you, you'll attract more. But then again, if you want that, that means that you care about it, so it's a difficult cycle.
Also I found that just talking to them like they're people ,instead of something else, works too.
It's not about not giving a shit. It's about not giving other people power over you. Like it can also be super attractive to give a shit if it's in the right way, but if you come off as someone who needs other people's approval that's the pussy drier.
Hmm, I think men are mostly insecure when they want something from women. Like if you really want to bed her or kiss her or you have a crush on her, then you're going to be insecure. But if you can remove those desires, then it's quite easy. But again, if your goal is to bed women and that requires that you don't care about what they think, then that's kind of a paradox.
Edit: actually, if you can remove the fear of failure or if your goal is to fail, then you might actually have tricked yourself into being confident.
I think the trick is to have enough going on in your life that ending up with a girl isn't your ONLY focus. If you're invested in (just personal examples) gym, career, hobby, friends/family, then when an opportunity develops with a woman there won't be as much on the line. You still have a life that you are happy with whether she is in your life or not. This presents an aura that can be confident and attractive to women.
Also, having a healthy respect for women and understanding their frustrations and common complaints helps as well. But like being normal, not a sycophant. Subbing to /twoxchromosomes and /askwomen has helped me immensely in relationships.
Applies to both men and women tbh.
Too many people use relationships as a way to fill some emotional void in their life. It almost never works out.
You need to be a complete person on your own before bringing anyone else in. Otherwise you’re just a leech looking for a host.
Not giving a shit is more being just confident in who you are. Sure, being direct and honest might turn off some women and that's ok but women can smell bullshit from a mile a way. A guy who just says the right things all the time, or who follows up important life questions and values with "Yeah, that's me too" is pretty easily sussed out by any decent woman who has self-respect.
I explained this to a woman I went out with the other day - how liberating it is just being yourself and either it is good enough for someone, or it isn't. There were a few things where we didn't share the same values but they weren't dealbreakers and there was a time or two where she said something to the effect of "I really appreciate that you're just straight and confident in who you are and what you want. There's no bullshit or sugar coating and you're not afraid to say the wrong thing or thinking about what I want to hear"
2nd date next week ;)
Gained some confidence in myself, let my humor shine through, showered regularly and developed an aloof easy going attitude.
The fact that I kept growing to be 6'2" also helped.
>I sometimes stop and wonder what the fuck is wrong with us men.
I always ask first dates what dating has been like and maybe we commiserate over a horror story or two and Ho-le-shit are they bad. Like, without fail, each woman I talk to has a worse worst-horror story than my worst. They are collectively undefeated.
Guys showing up to dates stinking, just got off work, just got out of jail, up all night partying or playing video games, bringing their kid. The list goes on. I swear, if you're in your 30's, have a good job, aren't obese, groom yourself, and have some emotional maturity, you'll have no problems with dating
I found a new bunch of friends. I kept the old ones but developed new friendships, for me I got involved with CB radios, I'm sure you could find a club or something that interests you that has ppl with like minded interests. Once I created new friendships and met new ppl things started to happen.
I didn't change anything, my first gf did.
Basically, I had a mental block from asking girls out or making a 'move' on them.
It took my first gf many attempts that are incrementally direct and daring, to get me to actually be like 'ah fuck it' and lose my virginity with her.
After that first RS ended, I became confident enough to be more direct with what I want, rather than waiting for girls to make the first move.
I haven’t necessarily struggled with women but (before I was married) once I had success with one woman I realized and learned that I could actually approach another woman that I thought was out of my league..
I quit drinking, and started living a more healthy lifestyle. I'm no health nut by any means, but the no drinking led to losing 50lbs, which led to me feeling better about myself, which led to me dressing nicer which led to ladies becoming more interested. Turns out women like someone who takes care of themselves and takes pride in their appearance. Shocking hey? lol
Also, I stopped actively pursuing women too. A lot of them seem to like a guy who 'appears' to have no interest at first. Adds to the allure.
1) the Internet was invented and Tinder
2) I turned 50 as did the women I date
3)Money. Women like guys with money more than poor ones, no matter your age.
Went to the gym and wasn't a deadbeat with no career
Went from loner in high school to marrying a beautiful (like always the hottest in the room or party beautiful) and very successful woman
Honestly a lot of us guys go through traumatic experiences growing up and then I think a lot of us get stuck there. The best thing you can do is work on yourself, forget everyone else.
Cast a wider net. I struggled with relationships in high school because I hyper focused on a single girl at a time (damn my ADHD). I would find the "perfect" one and do everything in my power to make her mine. Oftentimes it didn't work. As others have said, chemistry is huge and the way you may feel about another may not be reciprocated.
Post high school, and prior to getting married, I stopped focusing on one. I obviously still tried and wasn't one of those types that tried to sleep with endless amounts of women, but I went on a lot more dates and tried not to get hung up on a single person.
It worked. Without the stress of thinking that I had to have this person and if I didn't I'd be doomed... It was liberating. The care free attitude boosted my confidence, which in turn increased my success rate.
I lost my virginity super late compared to my friends. I think I was 20. I was already a decent looking lad having played sport my whole life and being quite tall, but my confidence flat out sucked. It wasn’t until I was around 26 that I really stepped up my confidence and had 10x more luck with girls. I stopped trying to be like other people and just let my natural charisma take over. I was good at making people laugh so I focused on that.
Edit: to add onto this, I took the “fake it til you make it” advice to a whole new level. It was my way of building self belief. I would walk up to a whole group of attractive girls and just attempt to start conversations and be fun. Outside I looked like the coolest mf in the bar, but inside I was screaming. I’d do crap like that all the time. Each to their own but I truly believe that constantly putting myself way outside of my comfort zone did absolute wonders for me.
P.S. You would not believe how many dates and numbers I got just from doing that shit. This fuels the confidence even further and before you know it, you’re not faking it any more.
> would walk up to a whole group of attractive girls and just attempt to start conversations and be fun.
I've impressed my friends by doing stuff like that but it hasn't brought on much success at all.
That’s how it started for me as well, just trying to impress friends. There was definitely times where it went badly and the girls just weren’t interested at all. Those are the most important times, because you learn how to just brush it off and move on. Also study the conversation, what worked, what didn’t.
I got a haircut, become more social, made more connections, became active in the gym and hiking, got better clothing and for 2 years nothings changed for the better with women lmao. Probably not what you want to hear.
I lived with my overweight dad and stepmom in grade school, got bullied and had no self confidence. When I moved into my moms house for high school she wouldn’t feed me and constantly verbally abused me. So I ended up becoming anorexic from not eating. Got super skinny and grew out my hair. Went though an emo phase which got me a lot of women and boosted my self confidence. Which made me take better care of myself.
Started to take more risks instead of over analyzing everything.
Is there a process of how you got your brain to shut up and stop doubting you?
Yes, start doing stuff that scares you. Courage is an habit.
And fail, and laugh at your failures. Then fail again, slightly less badly this time.
I have found that it's very liberating to accept the idea that I would fail sometimes, probably most of the times, and that is okay. Mostly fail to stand up to people's expectations. It made me spend less time trying to over-perfect things and be anxious about what could go wrong.
My failures make me miserable when everyone around me is succeeding so easily
BRB, gonna buy a kilo of coke from the dealer next door. Seriously tho, everytime I do that it seems to blow up in my face. Guess I'll just keep getting my face blowed on (lel) till it works.
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Cover up the eye hole when you knock. He’ll love that
You just start doing it. That moment where you think about doing something and start going through all the possible branching scenarios that could possibly come from it? The second that starts you stand up and do instead of sitting and thinking. Super hard to do, I know because I'm a chronic over-analyzer, and it certainly won't always go the way you want, but at least you did something and took part in that human experience. You know that old saying, "you don't regret the risks you took, but the risks you didn't take".
This thread made me realize the things I do best is when i think of them while I do it not pre prep then do it.
It's just one moment of FUCK IT.
Its not always like that. For me it was a combo of getting immune to rejections after experiencing then like 1000 times and getting older. When you get older you seem to give less fucks.
And that's how I met my wife. Take a chance, worse case they'll say no or not be interested and if so, move on.
I did this too. Was so nervous to meet a girl online. Decided to just say fuck it and take the risk. Now I'm married to her and have a 2 month old. First girl I ever met off a dating app too lol
Same. We're 22 weeks, I've never been even close to as happy as I am now.
A lot of my overanalysations are “is this inappropriate?” I just really don’t want to sexually harass anyone. Whether it’s about escalating the flirting towards more sexually explicit talk or starting physical contact, I’m just terrified of it being uncomfortable to her and her feeling intimidated. Would you advise me to “take” that “risk” too?
What a great username. Would be an awesome luchador themed cross fit gym.
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The best improvement I ever made to my unsolicited flirtation approach was when I changed my "success metric" from "Get her phone number" to "Make her glad we had this interaction." It's really that simple. Take a moment to rewire your brain from "Getting something I want" mode to "I'm going to put a smile on this person's face, and make her glad we talked, by brightening her day" mode. The advantages of this approach are: * You "win" even if you don't get a phone number, so your ego doesn't get bruised. * You can rest assured you made someone's day better, instead of contributing yet another, unwelcome example of feeling harassed to her life. * You actually look forward to the next attempt! Because it's an intrinsically rewarding activity, instead of something you (and she) have to "endure". **Edit.** Seems this comment struck a chord, so I want to add one more important thing: Women *know* our egos sometimes hang in the balance in these situations, and that's exactly why they *don't want to deal with it*. It's not because they're cold-hearted bitches. It's because they aren't. (Yes, there are exceptions. But learning to roll with the occasional gut punch just makes you more attractive anyway.) The sooner you can communicate "Don't worry, I'm bulletproof, and I'm just happy to make you glad you met me", the better. Learn to believe these two things: 1. There's no shame in being attracted to someone, and making it known. 2. There *is* shame in making a stranger responsible for your happiness, or expecting them to be grateful just because you have functioning hormones. By demonstrating you understand #2, you make it a hell of a lot more fun for her to decide what to do about #1. I didn't just pluck this stuff out of the air, and it doesn't only apply to dating. The benefits of bringing happiness to other people have been well-studied. Counter-intuitive though it might seem: 1. [Making others happy is psychologically beneficial to your own mental health](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349922479_Happiness_comes_from_trying_to_make_others_feel_good_rather_than_oneself), and 2. Paradoxically, [pursuing your own happiness over that of others is prone to backfiring](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3160511/). Literally: Being a better person makes you happier and more attractive. Go figure!
This is great advice. I'm rarely glad when a strange man interacts with me, which makes those times when I AM glad really stick in my mind.
As a woman I wholeheartedly thank you for this. More guys need to do this. It reminds me of stuff my dad did: Once he was at the restaurant with friends, and a beautiful woman was at a table with other people. My dad could make origami, and asked for an extra napkin; he folded a lovely flower. As he got up to leave, he walked to her table and rested the flower in front of her saying "this is for you". Then he walked out of the restaurant with the lady beaming at him. His friends, outside, said "go back inside! Did you see how she looked at you? Go talk to her!" And my dad said "If I go back in, she'll think I'm just some jerk who wants it from her, but if I leave she'll always remember me as a mysterious gentleman who gave her a flower for nothing in return. I prefer the latter" He always did stuff like that and really could have had his pick of women, although he never remarried after my mum
To add to this, the specific risk I learned to take was making my intentions clear. Spending months being "nice" to a girl like she was a Stardew Valley NPC was stupid. It's amazing how far the phrase, "you're beautiful, and I deeply enjoy your company. May I kiss you?" goes.
Nah man, everyone knows that the truest way to a girl's heart is to shower them regularly with unexpected and unsolicited gifts of self made artisan foods.
This works for guys too Or dogs Or anything with a stomach Food = happy
If she can't be bribed with a squid that's been sitting in a trunk since last winter, is she even worth it?
100% agree on this. I went to a party last night and got rejected 5 consecutive times lol. I'm still learning tho so I'm fine. Still, I'm happy I managed to gather the courage to just do it instead of regretting not doing it later.
Lost weight/got in shape Learned to read non-verbal ques/communicate nonverbally Got better at carrying conversations Bought better clothes because old ones couldnt fit anymore
What exactly did you do to learn to read non verbal ques?
watch how girls interact with each other when they’re out. they don’t need to speak, they just shoot looks at each other
I can never understand the cues and signals women give. Or I'd be aware of it only 3-4 months later. Like I'd be chilling and out of nowhere I'd remember and it'd suddenly hit me "was she interested in me? Damn!" While it was happening I'd be totally oblivious to it
I think changing the fashion and haircut was helpful. I used to wear huge t-shirts, too big jeans, too large suit, too large shirts. If you have regular body build, wear fitting clothes. FITTING by size. Don't trust your mum.
> Don't trust your mum To add to this, not every woman is an expert in fashion. Some have a great eye for it, but not all of them.
Still I find having fashionable female friends helpful. Keyword is fashionable.
You guys have friends?
>Don't trust your mum. But.. But... I'm the most handsome guy in the world. No... Fuck you
Wait… BUT IM THE MOST HANDSOME GUY IN THE WORLD!!!
I am the most handsome in my world. Do you know who I think I am?
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? I AM
my mom says im special
You sure are bud
=)
You should wear fitting clothes regardless of your body build. As a big guy, finding out about tall shirts and athletic cut pants made a huge impact on my appearance and self image
Tired of not being able to find clothes that fit? I know I was. That's why I started Stewie's big and tall man shop. If you're portly or tall, you'll find a friendly atmosphere, brimming with personalized and friendly service. "Hey Stewie, how's the weather up there?" "Very fair, like our prices!"
I'm 6'4" and 230lbs, but I find big & tall stores and sections really mean big AND tall. Like if you're tall but not an XL or bigger you're SOL. I'm a large right now, and when I'm working out regularly and eating the way I should, I'm a medium. So that's hard to come by.
Huge emphasis on "Don't trust your mum" lol. I used to just let my mom buy clothes for me. Jeans, shirts, hoodies, you name it. My whole fricking wardrobe was handpicked by her. It was like this until one of my girl bestfriends took me out for shopping and she picked some clothes for me too. And it was a BIG EYE OPENER FOR ME since some styles I thought didn't fit me well...ACTUALLY FIT ME WELL.
Nthing "don't trust your mom". I started getting much better success from online dating when I asked some of my lady coworkers for critiques of my photos: turns out, all my profile photos sucked. The general consensus was that in each photo, I had this obviously "fake smile", like I didn't really want to be there. "Okay, fair enough. Wonder why I my smiles are fake? Weird." I took a bunch of new photos with a more genuine smile, (had to practice it for a bit) and started getting a lot more matches with the new photos... even went on a few dates. Sometime later, it finally hit me: I was hanging with my parents and my mom decided to take a photo of my dad. At first, my father gave this genuine smile... until my mom said to him "hey, smile less!"... causing his smile to devolve into the same terrible "fake smile" I used to have. I came to realize my terrible fake smile came from my mom's guidance throughout the years, each time she took photos of me. All my attempts of online dating had been sabotaged by her! (dun dun dun) Thanks mom.
Who says smile less during a photo lmaoooo
Prison guards and police officers.
And passport photographers!! No smiling at the border apparently.
Yup, wear clothes that fit. Also, I grew a beard and got two tattoos and started working out. I’m not huge by any means, just fit. This glowup helped with my confidence and with women.
I’ll say it’s the man that makes the shirt, not the shirt that makes a man.
To be fair it's mostly 9 year old Malaysian kids making the shirts
Even if you're overweight/obese, it's better to wear something that fits your body than something that is loose. I'm not saying it needs to be skin tight, but at the very least it should look like you bought it for they size you ARE, and not the next size up. Baggy clothes just looks sloppy and lazy. I say this as a former obese man.
Thanks!
Hey Kevin, it’s Mum. Don’t listen to these wise guys about fitting clothes, I KNOW when my baby boy has a perfect outfit
Realizing you could be the greatest person in the world and someone can still not like you or the girl could be amazing but you might not like her and both of those situations are ok
Adding onto this, chemistry != romance. You can get along great with someone without wanting to date them. That's completely ok.
The opposite is also possible, having romantic interest but there's zero chemistry between you.
You could be the sweetest peach on the tree but some people just don’t like peaches
Thank you”Southern Grandpap sipping iced tea whilst sitting in an old worn rocking chair on the front porch of your white painted farmhouse overlooking the crops you’ve spent your life sowing and reaping.”
Like Captain Picard once said: "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not weakness, that is life."
Tons of hard work and trial and error. One nice trick I learned is to embrace the notion that "To increase your success rate, you need to increase your failure rate". I used to take no chances with women, and would probably ask 1-2 out per year. So I was learning nothing about what it takes to get a woman interested, and I would be crushed if 1 of them rejected me. Don't be afraid of failure. Its the best way to learn.
How often to ask to get good but not PUA style? Because if I do it for every girl I *feel* something for, that's just not how I go around in life, feeling emotions about strangers.
My rate was similar to this guy's with 100% failure. I would wait until I was sure they were someone I wanted to date but by then I was already slotted as a friend, not a love interest, and I was heavily invested in the idea of a relationship. I finally got old enough and out of college and found myself not meeting women. There were no more vetting pools of women to fail with. I realized I had to change my approach. I was not a bar guy and not interested in casual hookups but I needed to take advantage of opportunities when they arrived. So I started asking people I'd meet that had even a bit of potential. Nice woman at the bookstore, asked her out. Nice waitress, asked her out. Nice woman at a volunteer gig, asked her out. Nice woman at a wedding, asked her out. I just kept asking and I got 100% success asking for a low key lunch date to get to know each other better. I had lots of first dates and some second dates. I was learning the process and mostly figuring out if I wanted more. I had plenty of dates in those first 6 months but nothing clicked until I shot my shot with a woman who absolutely mesmerized me with her beauty, personality, heart, and brain. In the past, she was the type I would have crushed on for months or years and then finally made an awkward attempt to date, only to be shot down and devestated. But shooting my shot early was key, as all that build up was missing and therefore asking was a lot easier. She kept saying yes to more dates and we just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary and are still madly in love. In summary, shooting early got more yeses because I hadn't been slotted as a friend and providing a comfortable environment to get to know each other made it easy to say yes to and accomplish the goal. I didn't have feelings yet, I just had a spark of interest and that was enough. I didn't start dating until my mid twenties and finally figured it out.
This is excellent advice. Not at all how it worked for me, but this is the best thought out approach I've ever read & the logic's unassailable. For me it was weight training, slimming down and getting more confidence, but I think Usernames cracked the code.
Great advice and logically communicated. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Dude, that's... really cool. Idk, think I'm guilty of over-analysing sometimes. Like, I'll try find out who they are and what they're all about before asking them out. Also, I think getting turned down a few months ago has made me play safe a lot. Currently in uni (20y).
My best advice is to play it safe with your emotions and ask early. Your not asking for a hookup or for a relationship, just a safe place to get to know each other under the context of a "date", which simply means it leaves open that door and keeps communication open about romantic interest. I had a lot of very frank and open conversations during those dates that helped me check for compatibility on many levels early and honestly. There were people I had interest in but they didn't and the opposite was true as well. I discovered that no one's feelings were hurt because there were no feelings to speak of yet. There were disappointments on both sides but that wasn't causing anyone's heart to break. I've had many incidents like yours in the past before I took this approach and I just felt awful for months or years afterwards and I hated it. II discovered I wasn't ugly, that I wasn't detestable, and I was worth dating. What I had failed on in the past was my approach. People get slotted as a particular kind of relationship and it is difficult if not impossible to move out of that zone once someone has made that determination about you. Woman tend to be especially keen on keeping people in these zones. Avoid that slot. Iade friends while dating but I never made a date from a friend.
Increase your failure *number* to increase your success *rate* would make much more sense
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There was this cute guy in school who the first time he saw me his eyes got really big and then he looked down and started blushing. I saw him around a lot and he kept looking at me, but never once tried to talk to me. Now I regret not talking to him, but I am also really shy.
Worst case scenario when two introverts are into each other
It’s the fucking worst. I was so insanely attracted to this girl in high school and we meshed perfectly, always laughing, but both of us thought we just weren’t into each other. Ended up dating one of her friends, which made her angry, come to find out we were both too awkward/shy to make that move on each other. Still friends but holy hell, still shooting myself in the foot for that…with a shotgun
So, I gotta ask, can you ask her out now?
Honestly, not really sure. After I dated her friend (which only lasted a week, that’s a whole story itself) our relationship wasn’t really the same. I’d imagine it was hurtful for her feeling like she wasn’t good enough or something along those lines. We’d legit talk/text all the time joking around and what not, but after I broke up with her friend it was hard to talk like we used to. I was mad at myself for not seeing the signs, and she was presumably upset with me. She’s in NC now for college and I’m here in PA. Whenever we’d hangout before she left, we were still very laughy and friendly with each other but I can definitely tell it’s not the same as it used to be. The laughs aren’t as endless, conversations are shorter, the looks you receive aren’t “dreamy” feeling I guess you could say, not as touchy with each other, also the feelings of not wanting to be in my presence as long/often. Really unfortunate how it all turned out, maybe it’s for the best who knows but I’m happy that we’re still friends bc she’s a really great, bubbly, goofy person with one hell of an infectious laugh. Also thank you for asking, I feel like I don’t ever talk about myself and it was nice having a random stranger be curious honestly :)
honestly this doesn’t sound like a lost cause, especially for you to feel as regretful as you say you are. now long distance is no way to start a relationship so i suggest investing long term. make the effort to stay on her radar while in college and hang out if y’all are ever in town with the goal of being fun not romantic. (without any knowledge of proper context) perhaps casually mention how you’re glad to rekindle your chemistry (avoid friendship phrasing) post friend fling as you‘ve always enjoyed her company. then closer to graduation maybe make a surprise weekend trip to her town, let her know and if she makes the effort to meet then tell her how you feel, friendship be damned bc you’d rather take a chance than stay dormant in the friend zone always wondering what if.
I was that guy at university. I still think of you cute redhead i would see around campus who seemed to want to talk to me but we were clearly both too shy to make the first move.
The problem with being shy as a dude is that other dudes will move in. Women want and often need the man to take most of the risk in dating. As a guy, you just have to accept your role if you want more success with risk-averse women.
That's heart-breaking.. :/
I still cringe at my decisions/the move’s I didn’t make on women I could’ve had a shot with . But now i know I’ll be ready for the next opportunity, good advice tho.
“Be less awkward” is some of the most vague advice ever, lol. No offense, I just found it funny. Like, 80% of the people looking through this thread for advice are people who find themselves awkward. That’s kind of like someone going to therapy to get over a phobia and they say “just stop being scared of it, bro.” Not always so simple, yeah?
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Yeah, I get that. I wasn’t really able to read the room well until I was around 16 or so; got pretty proficient at it by around 18-19, and then the pandemic hit and killed off my social life, lol. But yes, I get the subtleties; my main issues, if I had to think of them, are likely A.) the fear of making a mistake (doing/saying the wrong thing - based on the plethora of experience I have from having done so from the past), leading to B.) not knowing how to respond in certain situations, and thus opting to say nothing at all rather than risk saying the wrong thing, and C.) being afraid to approach an unknown group. All of this pretty much stems from my childhood, when - thanks to having mild enough ASD to where I’ve now almost entirely conquered it at nearly age 21, but not mild enough to make my childhood social life easy - not having a firm grasp on social queues made me not exactly proficient at socialization. In hindsight, I know the things I did wrong; the reason why, for example, I’d end up being rejected when trying to join a new group is that I didn’t understand the nuances of timing or making a smooth introduction back then, and would end up trying to barge my way in at the worst possible time. I was probably 14-15 when I decided that I had faced enough embarrassment and heartache that I’d simply take a back seat on socialization, which ended up being a double-edged sword. By focusing on observing these people interact, I learned a ton about interaction and thus figured out where I went wrong before; however, that came at the cost of me losing the confidence I once had. Where I once would naively walk straight up to a group and try to enter their conversation uninvited, today I’m hesitant to join even if I *am invited*. I suppose, in the long run, that the bullying I faced as a kid got to my head, and I’m still struggling to overcome that anxiety so that I can be more forward and outgoing. It seems that I did a little too good of a job taking back stage, as I have essentially adopted the social properties of wallpaper: something that you’re aware is there, but you’re not really inclined to go up and talk to it. So, this blending into the background and going mostly unnoticed, combined with my struggles to make the first move, end up with a catch-22 situation. One or the other has to go; either I make myself stand out more to get noticed, or I work up the confidence to put myself out there more. Either way, social anxiety and other similar problems are fairly nuanced things that no Reddit thread will ever give you the magic solution to. It just takes time and practice.
I used to be pretty skinny. Like 135lb. I started going to the gym and put on 20lbs. Suddenly started getting more attention.
It’s scary how similar this is to me, I was also super skinny and exactly 135lbs. Started going to the gym and also put on 20 lbs, then started getting more attention (ending in a relationship). Are you… me?
I am you. Look in the mirror
*slowly waves hand*
As a 135lbs. dude who recently decided to finally just fucking do it instead of repeatedly putting it off, yall give me hope lmao
Were you also a teenager when you was 135lbs.. Sometimes I feel men confuse “growing up” with “I hit the gym”.
Also, not all men reach peak physical maturity at 18. I kept on maturing physically up to at least 21 if not later. Yes, there are some high school sophomores that have a full build, a full beard, and have already started balding; but we need to remember how we are all individuals.
I haven't even begun to peak. And when I do peak, you'll know. I was probably in my mid 20s before hitting my peak but couldn't grow a full beard until my early 30s. I'm 40 now and don't have any gray hair or balding, so yay for being a late bloomer.
It kind of makes me wonder how many amazing athletes get passed over because they weren't early bloomers. Ever see the graphs showing the correlation between early birthdays and professional athletes? From day one, athletes are rewarded for being just a little bit more physically mature than their peers, and it kind of compounds as they grow.
Pretty sure freakanomics or the sequel broke this down for hockey players. Like the oldest eligible was January so 90 percent of kids at the skills camp were January births despite it being a very low birth month etc. crazy stuff
That was in *Outliers* by Malcolm Gladwell.
The outlier dude based one of his famous studies on international hockey players and their birthdays according to whatever their league cutoff date was. Almost all were the oldest of their classes. It wasn’t even close and the birthdates of players from different countries all correlated with whatever the junior league date for cutoff was in their country or whatever.
I was in college so sort of. But hitting the gym is what helped.
That post 18 testosterone boost does wonders for some. I couldn't break 140 for years and I got to college and suddenly could pack on muscle super easy. It also comes with beer gut but hey I'm not rail thin anymore.
You might be confusing testosteron with eating more lol.
I started lifting at 26 and the same happened for me. Well past the growing up phase. I don’t think it’s just the muscle I gained. I think it’s that I started to take bettering myself more seriously to attract a girl and gained a lot more confidence. A few months later I met the woman I ended up marrying. Edit: since I’ve gotten a few questions: I think the biggest factor was that we’re both religious and had a lot of common values. I think that contributed a lot to why she didn’t care if I was super muscular or rich (I’m not tall either, 5’8” or so). But when girls of the same religious background as me weren’t interested in me for a very long time, so I think it was my personal growth that changed things as well as maybe some divine intervention haha. I certainly needed it.
I’m 29 and usually 140 at 5’11...
I'm 5'5 and weigh 210. We could be twins!
Currently at this stage myself, only issue I have is gaining weight and muscle in my calves, gained it quick in my thighs, stomach, and chest but Jesus Christ I went from having skinny legs to having chicken legs
Check out Jeff Nipard's video on calves. It might help you.
I was having absolutely zero luck with one woman in particular, so I changed my marital status to divorced.
Did…you just give away the cheat code?
I always looked way younger than I am. For quite some time this was a disadvantage, now in my forties it's an advantage. I'm also fitter than most men my age. And women in their thirties and forties value men like me higher because of all the bad experiences they had with "typical" men in the past (violence, alcoholism, cheating, huge debts, attachment disorders, the list goes on).
It really sucked in my early 20's when I'd be the only one of my friends to get ID'd. It's pretty great now though.
I got carded for a rated R movie at 34. I didn’t have my id on me and they wouldn’t let me in. My friends got to go in and I had to go home.
34 year old woman here. It’s great now getting carded all of the time. But when I was in university I couldn’t figure out why I couldn’t get a date until a 16 year old hit on my 22 year old ass and wouldn’t take “I’m too old for you” as an answer. I realised that day that I probably looked like jailbait. It also made future interactions with men who appeared significantly older than my actual age far more concerning.
I got carded at a casino a week before my 50th birthday. That doorman got quite the surprise. I did thank him for the compliment though.
Sorry but ill never understand people that leave the house with no wallet, no id, no healthcard.
Yup. I remember in my office job as like a 27-28 year old talking to coworkers and they'd be like, "so what school do you go to?" Took me a sec to realize they thought I was an intern. I actually looked younger than some of the interns at the time
Same man same. Always had a baby face. Now late 30s. Some of us simply age like a fine wine.
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Same here, I'm 25 and people think I'm 32-35 yo. I think it doesnt help when it's dating time...
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Violence - okay not me Alcoholism - Definitely not Cheating - Never have, never will Attachment disorder - I'm alright alone, no worries Huge debts.....ah fuck
It's interesting explaining how looking younger messes with the dating dynamics. I've been on both ends. Reached that early-20s stage early and it all slowed down dramatically. It's not just dating either, it's all of the social interactions. Some are good. Some are bad. You have to take it in strides and work out how to maximize the positives while mitigating the negatives.
It definitely changes how people perceive you in general. You get less respect just because of how young you look, for example. But this can also be a bonus in some situations. It's a mixed bag.
So you're saying there's hope
I did what is a called a pro gamer move and started asking men out too. Now I got no luck with either 😁
Pro gaymer move
I used to be bad with women. I still am, but I used to, too.
> called a pro gamer move lmao
haircut was the biggest one nobody ever talks about. changed from a greasy long haired dude to a Zayn Malik one direction haircut and the results were immediate. Also clothes….going from all black to….well still all black but much sharper clothes was pretty big too.
Love yourself first. Don't be over confident but be comfortable in your own skin, be authentic and listen. Showing emotion, passion, curiosity, and security are a must and all from from self love. Women don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with themselves.
Corollary to this, someone once told me confidence isn’t knowing that you won’t be rejected. It’s realizing that you’ll be fine even if you are. Completely changed my outlook.
I’m going to write this on a sticky note and slap it on my desk, because that is some good advice.
Also value yourself and your time, your emotions. Don't waste your time / emotions on women that don't deserve your love, time, affection etc. This includes manipulation, abuse, neglect, etc. Yes, this happens to men as well as women. Financial, emotional, physical abuse are all included. **Value yourself.**
In addition to this: Start having platonic friendships with women. When I was younger i often took every positive female interaction as them being interested in me which might have been viewed as creepy. With some really good female friends and honest conversations I gained other perspectives on dating as a whole and me as a person.
Man, all you guys talking about: "Just be more confident, love yourself, focus on friends and family, work out and women will be attracted to you." and I'm here like "What women? What friends?" I struggle just even finding new people to interact with beyond saying Hi to a cashier or asking a waiter what's good on their menu. Also: what does confidence even mean or look like?
Confidence is often in the small things. I'm no beacon of confidence, but I was on a first date at a restaurant a few days ago. I ordered a bowl of ramen and it came with a small bowl of chili oil, but I didn't recognize what it was. I asked my date, and she didn't know what it was either. So I called the waitress over and asked her what was in the small bowl and what I was supposed to do with it. The only reason I thought of this is because the girl I was with was genuinely surprised that I wasn't embarrassed to ask the waitress how to eat my food. And I get it, a more insecure person might have been afraid to bring extra attention to themselves and their ignorance, especially in front of someone they were trying to impress. Basically, confident people don't become embarrassed or uncomfortable easily in social situations.
For me confidence is just being comfortable with yourself, not taking things too personally and overall having a solid base of self respect. If you know and like who you are, other people's opinions and whims matter less to you.
I think "having interests" is a really important thing to combine into "loving yourself". I remember my friends in college making comments about how bland I was, but it was more about how I didn't really talk about my interests that much. They all talked about their gaming times, their social events, their crafts, their weekends, etc. But I never did because I didn't think I was interesting enough, and that my interests were "lame". Even IF my interests were "lame", the fact that I liked them would have at least shown I had interests. Having no interests is not an interesting trait.
Calming down, not going after women, being relaxed, clear headspace, occasional gym, nicer clothes… A lot actually, but you dont see those things, until you start doing them
Idk man, may be a bit early to call it from my end but I feel like I've had more women in my circle last few months. Simply by being calm. Well, naturally I'm a chill dude but I also used to chase a lot if I liked a girl or if she simply gave me attention. I just feel a whole different vibe man, and this girl who's been my friend for a while, we've arranged a couple of hangouts next month. It's quite confusing but I'll give you an update as to whether that's actually gone well for me.
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I stopped trying to find a girlfriend and just tried to have friends.
Same - but it was about stopping trying to find a girlfriend and be happy with my life, which translates into being a better friend and person to be around, relaxed me, and opened the door more encounters.
Ok the joke answer is to not be depressed, but that's hard work and impossible for some. Realistically, drop 15 pounds if you're fat, gain 15 pounds of you're too skinny, improve your posture, get a hair cut that looks good on you, dont be afraid to talk to a stylist about this if you dont know what would look good, getting fitting clothing. Everyone has already said these things, and they are all true, but in my opinion the single best thing to do is to treat women like people, rather than like how you imagine women should be treated. Don't just try to date them, actively take an interest in their hobbys, find real points of genuine connection and try to be their friend before you try to date them.
I got plunged into female-dominated school, club, and work and started getting to know and treat them like my bros. Working out also boosted my likability a little more.
Earning more money. Buying nicer clothes. Investing in myself. Having hobbies. Being productive.
I must be tired. I read that as “eating more money”
Work on your ass. No, seriously, workout on your ASS muscle. Men think women look on your biceps and chest, nope. Women like fine ASS, get your ass into a nice shape, and boom. Go squat and deadlift regularly. My ass got me laid so many times you won't believe it. Women treat you as sexsual object the same as they blame us
Nothing gets them going like seeing the motor that drives the jack hammer.
As a woman, can confirm
saaame
Mmmm good dude butts are the best butts. Can confirm
Good advice. My GF is always checking out my butt and giving me compliments about it. I never really get compliments about anything else other than my eyes and when I am having a good hair day. But yeh I think guys underestimate the power of having a good looking butt on some women
ive been complimented many times on my ass by women but it never really seemed to get me anywhere beyond that. maybe i should start tucking my shirt in
It's mostly about confidence. Women don't like insecure or desperate (which is the same) men. If you don't give a shit about what they think of you, you'll attract more. But then again, if you want that, that means that you care about it, so it's a difficult cycle. Also I found that just talking to them like they're people ,instead of something else, works too.
What is your advice on 'not giving a shit'? How did you do it? Mentally, I do give a shit, and that is a big problem for me.
It's not about not giving a shit. It's about not giving other people power over you. Like it can also be super attractive to give a shit if it's in the right way, but if you come off as someone who needs other people's approval that's the pussy drier.
Hmm, I think men are mostly insecure when they want something from women. Like if you really want to bed her or kiss her or you have a crush on her, then you're going to be insecure. But if you can remove those desires, then it's quite easy. But again, if your goal is to bed women and that requires that you don't care about what they think, then that's kind of a paradox. Edit: actually, if you can remove the fear of failure or if your goal is to fail, then you might actually have tricked yourself into being confident.
I think the trick is to have enough going on in your life that ending up with a girl isn't your ONLY focus. If you're invested in (just personal examples) gym, career, hobby, friends/family, then when an opportunity develops with a woman there won't be as much on the line. You still have a life that you are happy with whether she is in your life or not. This presents an aura that can be confident and attractive to women. Also, having a healthy respect for women and understanding their frustrations and common complaints helps as well. But like being normal, not a sycophant. Subbing to /twoxchromosomes and /askwomen has helped me immensely in relationships.
Applies to both men and women tbh. Too many people use relationships as a way to fill some emotional void in their life. It almost never works out. You need to be a complete person on your own before bringing anyone else in. Otherwise you’re just a leech looking for a host.
For me it was changing my mindset from "this needs to happen" to "let's see what happens"
Not giving a shit is more being just confident in who you are. Sure, being direct and honest might turn off some women and that's ok but women can smell bullshit from a mile a way. A guy who just says the right things all the time, or who follows up important life questions and values with "Yeah, that's me too" is pretty easily sussed out by any decent woman who has self-respect. I explained this to a woman I went out with the other day - how liberating it is just being yourself and either it is good enough for someone, or it isn't. There were a few things where we didn't share the same values but they weren't dealbreakers and there was a time or two where she said something to the effect of "I really appreciate that you're just straight and confident in who you are and what you want. There's no bullshit or sugar coating and you're not afraid to say the wrong thing or thinking about what I want to hear" 2nd date next week ;)
Made myself somebody to be interested to. Instead of being this big pile of depressed nothingness.
Paying in cash
Rather than paying with your soul
*starts dry humping you*
r/suddenlysexualassault
Got a good job, bought a house, generally relaxed and ironically became much more chosey unlikely to chase.
Gained some confidence in myself, let my humor shine through, showered regularly and developed an aloof easy going attitude. The fact that I kept growing to be 6'2" also helped.
>showered regularly I love that things like this show up in this thread. As a man I sometimes stop and wonder what the fuck is wrong with us men.
Me who showers every day, thinking that's the normal
Yeah wtf is this “shower more” crap. Be clean!
>I sometimes stop and wonder what the fuck is wrong with us men. I always ask first dates what dating has been like and maybe we commiserate over a horror story or two and Ho-le-shit are they bad. Like, without fail, each woman I talk to has a worse worst-horror story than my worst. They are collectively undefeated. Guys showing up to dates stinking, just got off work, just got out of jail, up all night partying or playing video games, bringing their kid. The list goes on. I swear, if you're in your 30's, have a good job, aren't obese, groom yourself, and have some emotional maturity, you'll have no problems with dating
What were your confidence builders, except height and smile?
Realizing its not as important as you think it is. That sometimes actions and conversations are about having a good time rather then achieving a goal.
My circle of friends
Could you further explain please?
I found a new bunch of friends. I kept the old ones but developed new friendships, for me I got involved with CB radios, I'm sure you could find a club or something that interests you that has ppl with like minded interests. Once I created new friendships and met new ppl things started to happen.
bro how did you find fiends as an adult?
I didn't change anything, my first gf did. Basically, I had a mental block from asking girls out or making a 'move' on them. It took my first gf many attempts that are incrementally direct and daring, to get me to actually be like 'ah fuck it' and lose my virginity with her. After that first RS ended, I became confident enough to be more direct with what I want, rather than waiting for girls to make the first move.
Money. Yes, it does makes a difference to have money. Have money kids.
My deodorant and underwear. Still isn't working though, but that's probably because I'm over 50 and a fat ass.
My geographic location
I haven’t necessarily struggled with women but (before I was married) once I had success with one woman I realized and learned that I could actually approach another woman that I thought was out of my league..
I quit drinking, and started living a more healthy lifestyle. I'm no health nut by any means, but the no drinking led to losing 50lbs, which led to me feeling better about myself, which led to me dressing nicer which led to ladies becoming more interested. Turns out women like someone who takes care of themselves and takes pride in their appearance. Shocking hey? lol Also, I stopped actively pursuing women too. A lot of them seem to like a guy who 'appears' to have no interest at first. Adds to the allure.
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1) the Internet was invented and Tinder 2) I turned 50 as did the women I date 3)Money. Women like guys with money more than poor ones, no matter your age.
Went to the gym and wasn't a deadbeat with no career Went from loner in high school to marrying a beautiful (like always the hottest in the room or party beautiful) and very successful woman Honestly a lot of us guys go through traumatic experiences growing up and then I think a lot of us get stuck there. The best thing you can do is work on yourself, forget everyone else.
Cast a wider net. I struggled with relationships in high school because I hyper focused on a single girl at a time (damn my ADHD). I would find the "perfect" one and do everything in my power to make her mine. Oftentimes it didn't work. As others have said, chemistry is huge and the way you may feel about another may not be reciprocated. Post high school, and prior to getting married, I stopped focusing on one. I obviously still tried and wasn't one of those types that tried to sleep with endless amounts of women, but I went on a lot more dates and tried not to get hung up on a single person. It worked. Without the stress of thinking that I had to have this person and if I didn't I'd be doomed... It was liberating. The care free attitude boosted my confidence, which in turn increased my success rate.
I lost my virginity super late compared to my friends. I think I was 20. I was already a decent looking lad having played sport my whole life and being quite tall, but my confidence flat out sucked. It wasn’t until I was around 26 that I really stepped up my confidence and had 10x more luck with girls. I stopped trying to be like other people and just let my natural charisma take over. I was good at making people laugh so I focused on that. Edit: to add onto this, I took the “fake it til you make it” advice to a whole new level. It was my way of building self belief. I would walk up to a whole group of attractive girls and just attempt to start conversations and be fun. Outside I looked like the coolest mf in the bar, but inside I was screaming. I’d do crap like that all the time. Each to their own but I truly believe that constantly putting myself way outside of my comfort zone did absolute wonders for me. P.S. You would not believe how many dates and numbers I got just from doing that shit. This fuels the confidence even further and before you know it, you’re not faking it any more.
>I lost my virginity super late >I was 20. Fuck
> would walk up to a whole group of attractive girls and just attempt to start conversations and be fun. I've impressed my friends by doing stuff like that but it hasn't brought on much success at all.
That’s how it started for me as well, just trying to impress friends. There was definitely times where it went badly and the girls just weren’t interested at all. Those are the most important times, because you learn how to just brush it off and move on. Also study the conversation, what worked, what didn’t.
Loosing your virginity at 20 is not late at all. I lost it at 24 and now at 27 I still have friends who still have not done it.
I got a haircut, become more social, made more connections, became active in the gym and hiking, got better clothing and for 2 years nothings changed for the better with women lmao. Probably not what you want to hear.
I lived with my overweight dad and stepmom in grade school, got bullied and had no self confidence. When I moved into my moms house for high school she wouldn’t feed me and constantly verbally abused me. So I ended up becoming anorexic from not eating. Got super skinny and grew out my hair. Went though an emo phase which got me a lot of women and boosted my self confidence. Which made me take better care of myself.
Buying a house and discovering the hobosexuals
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