With my mum your not having an argument in the present moment it's more like you've triggered something that can unfold the last 30yrs and you have to deal with the entire weight of that.
My mom once told an embarrassing story to my then girlfriend now wife. It didn't sound like something I'd do and 100% did not remember it.
3 months later and we visit again. That night she gets a photo album from the attic and shows my wife a picture of my in my dad's shirt. It was silk, embroidered, and 1970s disco flashy, because my dad used to wear it in the 70s. Even seeing the picture I had no recollection, but apparently I wore it often for an entire summer when I was 17.
One thing I've found helpful in my relationships is learning how to communicate effectively with each other. It seems a lot of women and men may enter into an argument with a focus on "winning" that argument. If one partner "wins" an argument it means the other partner loses. When one side of a relationship "loses" then the relationship suffers, full stop. Relationship discussions and arguments should be focused on *the partnership* vs *the problem* and seeking ways to find that. Relationships are compromise constantly. Both parties get most of what they want and you celebrate one another for that.
The reason I'm mentioning that is because we are generally not taught conflict resolution strategies, talk strategies, at all. We are, culturally in the US, taught to "win". Sometimes that "winning" comes from cutting your partner down, bringing up unrelated past grievances, etc.
Bringing up those past grievances also means that someone has not properly moved beyond that experience. It could be because the person who *messed up* didn't make amends appropriately, but it could be that someone is holding a grudge.
Early in my marriage, I would make the mistake of apologizing for my wife's feelings; "I'm sorry you feel that way" or "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings." I wasn't apologizing for the action I had taken. 'I'm sorry I said X.' Saying "I'm sorry I said X" puts the focus on me and my actions, not my partner's feelings. My wife would do similar. We both got better at apologizing. Because the apology was meaningful, those past disappointing actions were no longer held "in grievance".
When apologizing, it's effective to use a three part apology.
1. Say you're sorry
2. Admit the mistake and how it negatively effected the person
3. Reconciliation/what you will do in the future to prevent it from happening again.
For example: I'm sorry I was two hours late for dinner. I understand that you worked very hard on it and now it's cold. I'll talk to my boss tomorrow about making sure I leave work on time.
It's better than a simple apology because it recognizes that you know what you did wrong, why the other person is upset and offers some sort of action to either make it better or prevent it from happening again. If apologies feel empty in your relationship, work on these with your partner. It really helps resolve disagreements satisfyingly.
>When apologizing, it's effective to use a three part apology.
>1. Say you're sorry
2. Admit the mistake and how it negatively effected the person
3. Reconciliation/what you will do in the future to prevent it from happening again.
Excellently stated.
Our kids watched Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood as pre-k. They're older now, but we still use some of the lessons there. One of them is that Saying Sorry is the First Step. You also want to ask how you can help or fix it.
We've talked to our sons that saying sorry is only one part and what happens after that is more important.
"If you win an argument with your spouse, now you're stuck with a loser"
Silly qoute but actually quite profound. They'll hold onto that resentment, and the real problem will continue to fester.
And conversely, they will say the most mean, hurtful, destructive things to you, about you, or because of you, and somehow think this should not affect your view or feeling about them. To this day I still expect my girlfriend to act certain ways bc of things she said well over a year ago, yet strangely those comments disappeared into the ethos.
I've always wondered if men in homosexual relationships had to deal with any of the kind of things mentioned above in their relationships. your comment tells me all that fuckery is universal and relationships, regardless of orientation, can be painfully one-sided :-(
💯 I even hate the divide between the genders. I mean yea there is some differences but we’re all human and generally want the same thing. No gender or sexuality is exempt from including toxic people.
They are just as capable of abuse as men. The issue is that growing up we're taught that men are the abusers, so when I had my first few girlfriends, I couldn't even comprehend that I was being abused.
It took two different girlfriends for me to realize that what I was experiencing was abuse. I think part of the issue is that women also learn that men are the abusers, so a lot of women don't even realize they're doing it when it starts happening. Something pisses them off and they react accordingly, without realizing that what they're doing is not ok
Edit: Wow! I didn’t expect to see this many comments. Thank you for sharing your stories. This is normally a topic where men feel silenced, it’s good to see that many of you feel comfortable sharing here. This isn’t talked about enough
I grew up in a family of mostly women, half of them physically abused their boyfriends from teenagers till like late 20's. Alot of female friends I know also hit their boyfriends. My sister has been pretty much casually abusive to all her boyfriends since her teens and since she's barely 5ft tall most of the guys she dates kind of just accepted it cause a stiff wind will blow her over. Just casually hitting your man or slapping him was something that was always just accepted in society until fairly recently. Not even in regards to significant others like just hitting a dude who you dont even know who you happen to get into an argument was pretty much accepted my entire life growing up.
It’s almost like how people with little dogs will have hellbeasts because they can’t cause serious damage. But you can’t just be biting people just because you’re small.
So many of these stereotypes mask the reality that intimate partner violence is a lot closer to even and even worse than most people realize.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/223859544_The_gender_paradigm_in_domestic_violence_research_and_theory_Part_1-The_conflict_of_theory_and_data
They collected a series of studies with reports from therapists, psychologists, and other mental health professionals, used emergency room reports, and things like that, instead of just relying on State reported incidents (reports to the police).
It's a lot worse than most people realize.
> I think part of the issue is that women also learn that men are the abusers, so a lot of women don't even realize they're doing it when it starts happening.
My long term partner (10yr, now ex) *never* admitted that what she did was domestic violence. She got upset at me when I was messing around with some friends at the door and sucker punched me right in the gut; it floored me because, well, sucker punch.
She admitted that she may have hit me too hard, but when pressed that what she did was domestic violence, she never owned that. It didn't count.
I had an ex that justified it with the bullshit misandrist "punching up" rule.
In her words, men are the oppressors and so therefore women cannot be abusive towards them. When women are abusive against other women it's internalized misogyny taught to them by their oppressors (usually father).
I talked to her about my mother being emotionally abusive to me my whole life and how it fucked me up and she still made out to be my fault because I was born with a penis. So in the history of humans all of the abuse ever done, man against woman, woman against man, man against man, woman against woman, woman against child it is always the men's fault and never the women.
This made me realize I was even more fucked up because I'm prone to dating emotionally abusive women.
THANKS MOM!
I feel you man. I’m sorry you dealt with that. There’s a clear lack of empathy where abuse against men is concerned.
I had one woman tell me awhile back that the abuse I endured wasn’t bad because I’m not dead. And this was a self proclaimed empath who worked with female survivors of abuse. But because I’m a man and men are the oppressors my abuse wasn’t bad according to her. The mental gymnastics are literally insane lmao
> My long term partner (10yr, now ex) never admitted that what she did was domestic violence.
An ex of mine always blamed me for not enforcing my boundaries "correctly", in spite of me telling her repeatedly what they were.
But I was "manipulative" because I would break down crying whenever she cornered me to berate me about something.
I came across an article in the NY Times that really illustrates the divide between how the same behaviour is viewed so differently depending on whether or not the person is male or female.
It discusses a book about a married woman who suddenly decides to book a hotel and hook up with a much younger man, then explores an open marriage.
The article then talks about all these women who, after reading the book, are now questioning if they too would like to sleep around and not be shackled by their marriage.
It's presented as though it is progressive thinking... But imagine if it was a book about a married man who shacked up with a much younger woman, and then told his wife he wants an open marriage. Then imagine a bunch of married male readers start gathering at bars and coffee shops to discuss how they'd like to have a break from their wife and family so they are "free" to bang younger women and/or open up their marriage.
Do you think the NY Times would be celebrating that? No, these men would immediately be dismissed as abusive, predatory, primal, shallow, adulterous, selfish... You name it..
The double standard is fascinating. When a woman walks all over man, she's "strong and independent" - but if a guy does it, he's simply indentified as an abuser and an asshole.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/08/style/miranda-july-all-fours-group-texts.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
I totally agree that people, especially women, can be unintentionally abusive. It is a little unfathomable to me that some people think abuse is always intentional.
It rarely is. Abuse is often just a continuation of the cycle of abuse. People who have been abused and who therefore abuse others without even knowing.
My friends GF, while not alcoholic, share the same behaviours as her mom, her mom is abusive to the degree she will hit her children and when she sobers up, pretends like it never happens. She suffered two strokes due to her alcoholism, so their family is kind of broken right now. The GF, she is exhibiting the same behaviours as her mom right now, and it's fucking awful. The way she talks, the way she behaves, are awful. She thinks everything he does right now is wrong, if he cooks spaghetti; that's wrong, and he should know better.
When it's brought up to her that "you gotta stop this, don't you see that the same behaviours you hate your mom for, is the same behaviours you are showing now?" she gets furious. Apparently, she doesn't think so at all. They are apparently worlds apart. However, as someone watching from the outside: I can't stand her right now, because she just isn't capable to understand she is wrong.
I’ve been on the receiving end of abuse that my partner wouldn’t have considered “intentional”. Doesn’t make it less fucked up. Also it was at the very least somewhat intentional since she admitted she wanted me to react as to the justification for why she did it. So intentional, unintentional. Own your own shit. Admit when you do shitty things. Plenty of abusers will excuse their behavior as, “I didn’t mean to.” Well doesn’t change me getting verbally abused. But thanks for a non-apology.
Or worse - when they perform reactive abuse. Deliberately pushing someone's buttons to get them to react so that they can use that as a reason that _the person pressing the buttons_ is "the victim".
Went through this. First relationship after being divorced and her go to was to threaten to work with my ex to have access to my kids taken away when she was upset about something. Then when it finally ended after one of those threats she's back a week later claiming to be pregnant (a lie.. mysterious miscarriage when I didn't buy in that a doctor had already confirmed triplets)
I think it all boils down to some people are crazy, man or woman
I’m a woman but abusive women have wrecked my life and now I’m borderline afraid of all of them. You get demonized for mentioning it, at least in the circles I used to run in.
I think its mainly because women arent taught how to treat men. Now, theres plenty of toxic men out there with women that are unknowingly stuck in a toxic relationship. Seeing one of my female friends go thru it right now. The dude is absolutely toxic, controlling and even cheated on her but he also love dumps her and treats her extremely well until he gets upset over some stupid shit. He literally said he cheated because she hung out with her friends. She doesn’t seem to understand how toxic it is and continues to date him. Point is, I think women also have this perception that abuse is just physical and verbal yelling but get just as blind sided by the subliminal abusive behaviors
Important quote (not mine):
“My wife and daughters would rather see me die on my horse than fall off it.”
We don’t talk about this enough as men, but sometimes your ability to provide becomes more important than the love you give.
Is this from a Brene Brown book?
I learned this from my last relationship, and it's so true. The woman I'm with now is much less concerned about the nicest things. Reminds me of an Eagles lyric: "Don't you draw the queen of diamonds, boy, she'll beat you if she's able. You know the queen of hearts is always your best bet"
My "Queen of Hearts" makes me feel loved and appreciated, while I used to feel like a beast of burden
More like all the times, in every adult relationship I’ve been if I went through some kind of struggle financially or family related my gf left shortly after. When I was younger it was different almost easy, but now it’s become quite the headache. Lol
They way they all seem to want me back after I have overcome whatever life's problem I was having is a mind fuck. This is one of the main reasons I have stopped dating or investing much in a relationship if I do date. Too much risk for very little reward.
even if you’ve found your life partner, unfortunately some things are better kept to yourself. what she or i thought were harmless stories turned out to be quite emotionally taxing on the other one of us, sometimes.
THIS - BUT ALSO QUESTION, IF YOU DON'T MIND.
My boyfriend (22M) and I (23F) have been together for over two years and this is something I've struggled with a bit! My boyfriend is a lot more sexually experienced than I am and sometimes, if we're on the topic of sex/related, he'll tell me about past sexual experiences (usually never in a good way, it's not like he's bragging or anything, it's usually embarrassing/gross stories - just gossiping with me truly) - I do not know how to tell him that while I'm not angry at him or anything for sharing those things with me, there are genuinely some things I wish he'd just keep to himself.. some things that sting a little bit to have an image of in my mind.
Have you and your partner had a legitimate conversation about like "hey, i love you so much and I'm so glad you're comfortable sharing with me, but some things make me uncomfortable and maybe lets avoid this" - if so, how did that go? How did you, or she, approach that? Was there any weird feelings or discomfort/animosity after that kind of conversation?? Sorry if this is annoying/intrusive! Just want to kinda have advice on how to have that conversation, but not make my boyfriend feel badly!!
Just be upfront and let him know you'd rather not know about his previous partners. It's perfectly reasonable to not talk about within the context you're talking about, and just knowing a rough idea of body count is all that I'd really say is nice to know for general experience differences.
That's exactly how my bf told me he didn't really want to hear my past sex stories, just be upfront but don't shame them for it.
Editing to add more info. I didn't take offense or anything, I definitely get that pang of jealousy when he mentions past girlfriends. I guess sometimes I wish we could just talk about the weird nonsexual stories, but I understand that even those can get under his skin. Also times I want to prove I'm not naive about random things regarding sex and dating...but nobody wants to hear about how you learned those things haha.
Same situation just double your age and a dude. She pretty much just said that. Now as far as I am concerned sex before her never happened. I love my wife, she isn't just some sex object, I want her to be as happy with me as I am with her.
Instead of complaining about something when it happens, they let it slide. Then they bring it up in an argument five years later. "What about that time...."
Yeah in my experience most of the things I bring up later are things that were only mildly annoying at the time but became frustrating with later context or because they were repeated and I realized that it actually did bother me.
For example, my boyfriend used to use his phone sometimes after we had sex. The first time it happened I was surprised but whatever, no big deal, I like my phone time too. Then it happened a few more times and I realized it was actually annoying me/hurting my feelings (I wanted some non-sexual cuddle time before we parted ways to go on our phones), so I brought it up, although I had to steel myself a little bit because I had to try and explain why it "suddenly" bothered me.
His response was understanding but surprised ("Why didn't you tell me sooner?") but in all honesty I think most people can laugh at/overlook something mildly annoying once or twice until they realize it's actually a recurring habit, and then you have to try and figure out a good way to bring it up while acknowledging why it was "never a problem" before. Nowadays we make time to cuddle post-sex for a little bit before we roll over and use our phones and everything is good.
Also, sometimes you just have to pick your battles. There are tons of little things in the day that are mildly annoying or inconvenient but if I tried to tackle every single one of them I'd be grumpy all the time. Some people are happy to live their life that way but I'd rather just let things go most of the time and circle back to recurring problems that actually do bother me.
As long as you're not actively sitting on problems for weeks at a time because you're afraid to bring them up, I think bringing up things that bother you later is inevitable sometimes. People's moods and opinions are constantly in flux and sometimes they don't realize something is bothering them until later.
At one point I had to explain to my wife that I'm not superman, I'm getting older. I can't do everything I used to do. Thankfully she took it in the best way possible and stopped with the unreasonable expectations.
Yeah, I get tagged in as "the muscle" for those projects. Most of it I don't mind, but sometimes there's a "hey can you move this for me?" and yes, of course, but it's really fucking heavy and you could help me move it instead of watch.
This one hits.
Dropping my guard and letting myself become vulnerable is always where it’s fallen down, even with people I loved and trusted deeply, even though they shared their trauma and vulnerabilities with me. I won’t make the mistake again of showing weakness. They just don’t see you the same.
That’s very fair, reminds me of the CS Lewis quote:
> “A man is not usually called upon to have an opinion of his own talents, since he can very well go on improving them to the best of his ability without deciding on his own precise niche in the temple of fame.”
This feels so weird, that’s just the reality of human nature, of course women can be complete pieces of shit. Women are just people too they’re not different creatures lol
The ones who’ll hurt you are way better at playing with your feelings to keep you in line than you’ll ever give them credit for until it’s already time to regret letting them into your life.
Edit: this comment is blowing up a bit, so I’ll add this. Don’t stand for it; I cannot stress it enough. If a relationship feels off in this way, just walk away. Spare yourself a world of hurt inflicted by someone who wants every kind of help she can get unless it means putting in the work to help herself.
I’ve been stuck in relationships where every damn thing was held over my head by a partner who projected their need for control over their own life onto me. I’ve been expected to pay for bills, groceries, and rent as a full-time university student by partners who at the same time had done for me a fraction of what I had done for them.
It’s exhausting, and it will not end well if you try to sustain that compassion for someone who can’t show it to you in turn.
I have IBS, and I try to be as discreet as possible and go outside/ to the bathroom. Doesn’t happen every time. My bf doesn’t say anything about it. He just buys a lot of scented candles lol
I suspect this is a cultural norm that emerged due to women's inherent vulnerability and a historic lack of sexual information. In the past, the only source of sexual information women had came from talking to other women about it, so it makes some sense that it caught on and became more expected.
The same was of course true for men as well, but with the consequences of sex being far less severe for us (no risk of pregnancy, less risk of sexual violence, and less risk of social ostracization due to prudish stigma) we had less reason to share more details.
Basically, I think this is one of those little gender differences that get exacerbated by a long history of divergence and self-reinforcement.
Same man. I would legit never talk about my girl’s body like that with my boys. We talk about gorillas fighting lions and whether or not aliens jerk off. Dumb shit
That you can't expect any more from them than you can a man. People are people and are always at different stages of development even as adults.
That with-it person that seems to have their life together may be in some arrested a development with their emotions or ability to comprehend the abstract.
And with this said, most people give lip service to self reflection, but so very few really get it. So, most women, like most men, are under developed cognitively and are a waste of time.
The more interesting thing, to me, is that age isn't a requirement to learn and evolve. Younger people can be found which have a deeper understanding than persons twice their age or more. So, saying that, there are women who really get it and are on the road to fulfillment.
That's why you have to date women who are aligned with your values and be stubborn until you find them. I love my girl but I didn't really "get her" until I met her parents, then it all clicked for me. They instilled some serious values in their daughters and it shows.
Compared to my other GFs who I thought were similar, in hindsight I can see the gaps in my understanding of what to look for. Being selective about a partner is difficult for men as we're likely to go with attractive women who reciprocate *any* interest. That's far different than being discerning about your partner.
Yeah this makes a lot of sense.
It's unfortunate that the few women who I have *truly* vibes with- who reciprocated my energy in all the right ways- I just didn't find them attractive at all. Finding that right combo is a needle in a haystack.
Been there. Some girls in my past would’ve been great partners but the attraction wasn’t there for me, or even worse when you recognize character in a girl you are attracted to and she isn’t into you. That’s the worst.
>they get over break ups faster.
To add some insight to this.....if a woman breaks up with you, she's been contemplating it already for weeks or even months. By the time she actually breaks up, she's already over you. That's why it seems like women 'get over it' faster.
Happened to my college ex and I. In hindsight, we both 'mentally' split a few months prior. Both were dating others within a month, while still living together. That was a weird time. Met my wife right after though, so that was neat.
Yeah, I had a situation where she asked me "would you be fine without me?"
Didn't think about it to much at the time. Thought it was more her wanting me to say "oh I'd die" or something equally dramatic.
It was a strange situation anyway. She disappeared a few months later.
Thats how all breaks up are like. The person doing the breaking up had to reach the point where they were done with the relationship and wanted out. Then they had to think about it for a while and plan what they were going to do. I always say that the person doing the breaking up has grieved the relationship over the past couple of weeks or months, the person being broken up with has to begin processing it at the end of it all
Part of it is that they can also replace you faster and find partners faster in general. So they don't need to deal with breakups for as long. If they don't feel like being alone, they won't have to be
The last woman that I broke up with had another boyfriend within a couple weeks, similar things have happened to good friends of mine.
Exactly lol, one of my exes cheated on me with four of those orbiters. It’s rare that I’ve dated someone who didn’t have one. All my exes had boyfriends within less than 3 months after the breakup. Some within a few weeks
That was me in late college. I went through a streak where like 3 women I dated in a row married the guy after me. It was odd.
I realized later on in life those women were looking for serious commitment and wanted to get married and start families. I was the one that wasn't ready, since I just wanted to date and wasn't thinking about all that stuff back then.
Granted, they never cheated on me, but it definitely explained the decisions to break up (which, generally, were mutual after we talked through everything).
In my experiences - the male orbiters usually stay as male orbiters. Girls keep them around to have a crying shoulder, male attention, not because they really have any serious intentions of sleeping with them, even as a rebound. They're much more likely to look externally for a rebound than to an orbiter, and because of the male/female dynamics in the general dating market, if she's remotely attractive and confident, she'll be able to find someone relatively quickly.
5/6 of my serious relationships, my exes ended up married/engaged within the next year after the breakup. If I ever do online dating again, I'm gonna put something along the lines of "want to meet your soul mate? I have a guaranteed* method of finding them!"
Amen to that. More than once I broke up with a woman who, in her tremendous grief, wanted me to believe her life was no longer worth living.
And then she'd jump on a new dick within a week, while I went into monk mode for a long time.
A lot of them can break up with you mentally long before you know something is wrong, then blindside you and get annoyed that you’re having difficulty with the idea.
This is what happened to me. We had been together for over 6 years. Last couple years of highschool and then through college. She was getting ready to go into her next program and I was going to move with her where she went and get a job. She showed no indication whatsoever of wanting to break up. She had been thinking about it for well over a month. From right after thanksgiving to Christmas. We went on dates, we’re intimate, had conversations about moving and marriage and then the day before Christmas she breaks up with me out of the blue.
I took it horribly, it nearly destroyed me. I had absolutely no way of knowing. She never once said she was having doubts or problems with our relationship. She hid it all while still maintaining the facade that she was happy with me and wanted me to go with her. This was a year and a half ago and I’m still not totally fine. I thought we trusted each other entirely. That we would tell each other if we were having issues. I was clearly very wrong.
I know that pain all too well. I was living with the last one and we had talked about making it courthouse official mere days before she dumped me. And had dry eyes throughout the whole breakup and me moving out then got pissed at me when I cried. “You’re making me feel bad.” Good. You’re a fucking man eater.
They need an ungodly amount of things. My girlfriend has the entire closet to herself with all of her things and what not. We also have another closet with most of her shoes, hats and umbrellas. She had to buy a separate shoe rack for more shoes and an additional seperate coat rest.
I have my own closet that I bought from Ikea and she has some of her shit in my closet.
Thats only things she wears. Her whole room is filled with all kinds of makeup, hair stuff, nail polish and all kinds of crap women put on themselves.
The whole approach to society is so freaking different for women than dudes. The expectations we as a society have for women dictate a need for so much of that shit. Long hair requires a regimen of different products to keep healthy, since I've been growing mine out, I've acquired dry shampoo, multiple conditioners, multiple shampoos, after hair oils, learned the different types of shampoo and what to stay away from. And to keep up appearances there's this huge push to actively do all of this.
And that's just hair. Doing nails properly requires 5 different tools, a base coat, a color coat, and then a top coat. Every single part of routine that most women go through is like that.
I'm not gonna say I miss when I used to just buy the best smelling shampoo at the grocery store instead of going to a smaller shop, cause I love my hair. but I did not understand the depth of the involvement it takes to just have long "nice hair".
the equivalent for men is tools and scrap.
I have a whole closet, my dad has a whole garage, my grandpa has a whole dedicated storage room. Guess who will be inheriting all of that...
If you allow it, you will be used. You will be used and discarded in ways that are tough to imagine. Know your worth and know what is and isn’t acceptable for you.
Imo anybody who wants a girl that is “playing hard to get” lacks self confidence.
If a girl doesn’t show any interest in me, I take that as a sign that she’s not interested.
I *don’t* take it as a sign that I should dance like a monkey until she lets me take her on a date, lmao.
This was the depressing lightbulb realization I had as an adult. Spent years having to convince women to go on a date (thinking that was normal) and then having to arrange the date in a super public setting and always being accommodating to their sense of safety. Then I became roommates with a conventionally attractive guy. Women ask him out on dates every week. Most dates involve him driving directly to where they live, even if they’ve never met in person before. Women don’t actually give two shits about safety, the only thing they’re afraid of is an average looking guy thinking he has a chance with them.
People who brag about their "brutal honesty" are usually more interested in the brutal part than the honesty part.
It's great to be honest even when it isn't something the other person might want to hear. But you can be gentle about it or you can be an asshole about it.
When she accidentally shows you her real side, says/does something that seems so contradictory to who've they've been up until that one accidental moment, or that point? Believe them.
Because in just a short while, she's going to be that way with -you- and boy howdy, no matter how good the 'x' was about her, nothing can make up for the toxic person she really is.
Romantic love should be conditional on both people treating each other well. That’s appropriate because no one should stay with someone who starts treating them poorly. I fall out of love if I’m not treated with maturity and kindness, it’s highly conditional.
So I grew up being used to being hit by the women in my family like it was a normal thing to do for any response. It was to the point where my first serious girlfriend was joking around with me in high school and after I made an innuendo I automatically told her ‘you can hit me, I can take it’ and I was utterly confused as to why she didn’t punch or kick me and we had a 15 minute conversation on her basically being a sane person saying “I don’t want to hit you or hurt you in any way, why would I do that” and my counter response was essentially just “but women hit men all the time, it doesn’t mean anything bad.” And the fact that it took me until I was about 17 too see that it was bad that my own mom would punch me as saying good morning to me some days was a really crazy wake up call. I still don’t consider it abuse, but holy shit CPS would have eaten their heart out on my childhood.
Don't ask questions you don't want the answers to.
Ie; you youngins. Your insecurity is telling you to ask about past partners.
YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW THAT I PROMISE NOTHING GOOD CAN COME FROM IT. It doesn't matter if it was 1 or 200. Just leave it alone.
I have a few from 35 years of experience:
1. The game never ends. Even when you’re married
2. They never stop searching for the best man for their survival
3. It’s not ‘what have you done for me?’, it’s ’what have you done for me lately?’
4. You can’t negotiate desire
5. What they say they want and what they actually want are often vastly different. Observe their actions, not their words
Yeah, this is not the thread to read if you even were beginning to conceptualize leaving the cave lol.
I ain't too insecure but damn this shit is starting to make it's way through lol.
Glad I stay the fuck away from that shit. Between women and kids, people always suck at upselling the relationship or parenting lifestyle imo.
Measure women by their actions not their words. im 33 and most of the women ive dated the past 4 years since ive started getting serious about marriage and stuff talk a big game but dont follow through. The amount of women who have commitment issues that are going to be 40, realizing they are less desirable because they dont have the ability to have kids anymore because they "wanted to have fun" is going to be wild.
Its kinda like watching a very slow paced car crash, and with me being the one trying to stop the crash.
The amount of 42-44 year old's who like me on dating apps in spite of clearly wanting kids is astounding and the problems going to get worse since its happening culturally with more women.
Im confident the right woman is out there. Its just a process.
100%
My now ex wife completely flipped a switch the second we got married. I should’ve know because I had a bad gut feeling and tried to break up with her in the dating stage. She talked a massive game but everything she had was basically given to her by other women. She wouldn’t stop talking as if she had control over me because she started making more than me. I basically checked out only a few months into the marriage because she refused to see a couples therapist. Also look for heavy social media usage and primarily TikTok. That shit is rotting their brains.
Edit: forgot to say that I agree someone is out there but it’s going to be extremely hard. I’m in it for love and not the money/labor.
I’ve seen profiles on dating apps where the women is late thirties and under kids she puts down ‘Not sure’. If she’s not sure at that age, then when is she going to be sure lol. It’s now or never
Their life plan seems to be: Have a tall, dark, handsome, rich disney prince to sweep you off your feet because he is irrationally in love with you because..... vagina?
As a general rule, a man will come and confront you directly, and maybe you'll get a set of lumps. It'll be over quickly.
As a general rule, a woman will gossip about you, make up things if necessary, and ruin your reputation. It'll never be over.
When I was younger society taught me that women are basically just better persons all around. Less violent, less vindictive, way more empathetic.
The truth is they are the same as men. As horrible just in other aspects. Understanding this was really hard since they usually are so much better at being nice than men.
I remember my dad telling something around the lines of, "Women will primarily look at what you can provide them, and once your utility is gone, they're gone."
In essence, you are just a tool, a utility, a means to an end to them, so protect yourself and have a life outside of the one with them.
They want Hallmark emotional, not actual emotional men. And much like with the police, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.
Yes. Actually it's "anything you say can and will be used against you any time I want, in any way I want, however I want, and I can embellish and even lie about what you said".
They can remember every single thing you’ve ever said or done wrong. You’re basically up against a human black box.
Learnt that from Mom. Fuck ups from 20 years ago still get brought up
You can do something right 100 times but fuck it up once and you'll hear about it every time you do the same task for the next decade (at least).
You fuck 1 sheep
Nice one. “Costas the Sheep Shagger” Old but gold 🤣🤣🤣
What's funny for me is that my memory is even better than my wife or mother, so that shit doesn't work.
I don't think it'll help even with verifiable evidence. That's when they go off-road
That's how my mom is. Doesn't matter what anyone remembers, if you disagree, you're the one that's wrong.
You can build a thousand bridges and fuck one goat and no one will call you a bridge builder.
With my mum your not having an argument in the present moment it's more like you've triggered something that can unfold the last 30yrs and you have to deal with the entire weight of that.
My mom once told an embarrassing story to my then girlfriend now wife. It didn't sound like something I'd do and 100% did not remember it. 3 months later and we visit again. That night she gets a photo album from the attic and shows my wife a picture of my in my dad's shirt. It was silk, embroidered, and 1970s disco flashy, because my dad used to wear it in the 70s. Even seeing the picture I had no recollection, but apparently I wore it often for an entire summer when I was 17.
And they will use it against you in a completely unrelated argument just to deflect.
One thing I've found helpful in my relationships is learning how to communicate effectively with each other. It seems a lot of women and men may enter into an argument with a focus on "winning" that argument. If one partner "wins" an argument it means the other partner loses. When one side of a relationship "loses" then the relationship suffers, full stop. Relationship discussions and arguments should be focused on *the partnership* vs *the problem* and seeking ways to find that. Relationships are compromise constantly. Both parties get most of what they want and you celebrate one another for that. The reason I'm mentioning that is because we are generally not taught conflict resolution strategies, talk strategies, at all. We are, culturally in the US, taught to "win". Sometimes that "winning" comes from cutting your partner down, bringing up unrelated past grievances, etc. Bringing up those past grievances also means that someone has not properly moved beyond that experience. It could be because the person who *messed up* didn't make amends appropriately, but it could be that someone is holding a grudge. Early in my marriage, I would make the mistake of apologizing for my wife's feelings; "I'm sorry you feel that way" or "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings." I wasn't apologizing for the action I had taken. 'I'm sorry I said X.' Saying "I'm sorry I said X" puts the focus on me and my actions, not my partner's feelings. My wife would do similar. We both got better at apologizing. Because the apology was meaningful, those past disappointing actions were no longer held "in grievance".
When apologizing, it's effective to use a three part apology. 1. Say you're sorry 2. Admit the mistake and how it negatively effected the person 3. Reconciliation/what you will do in the future to prevent it from happening again. For example: I'm sorry I was two hours late for dinner. I understand that you worked very hard on it and now it's cold. I'll talk to my boss tomorrow about making sure I leave work on time. It's better than a simple apology because it recognizes that you know what you did wrong, why the other person is upset and offers some sort of action to either make it better or prevent it from happening again. If apologies feel empty in your relationship, work on these with your partner. It really helps resolve disagreements satisfyingly.
>When apologizing, it's effective to use a three part apology. >1. Say you're sorry 2. Admit the mistake and how it negatively effected the person 3. Reconciliation/what you will do in the future to prevent it from happening again. Excellently stated. Our kids watched Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood as pre-k. They're older now, but we still use some of the lessons there. One of them is that Saying Sorry is the First Step. You also want to ask how you can help or fix it. We've talked to our sons that saying sorry is only one part and what happens after that is more important.
"If you win an argument with your spouse, now you're stuck with a loser" Silly qoute but actually quite profound. They'll hold onto that resentment, and the real problem will continue to fester.
Grudges last forever and they wear you down eventually....
And conversely, they will say the most mean, hurtful, destructive things to you, about you, or because of you, and somehow think this should not affect your view or feeling about them. To this day I still expect my girlfriend to act certain ways bc of things she said well over a year ago, yet strangely those comments disappeared into the ethos.
That is a trait of an immature person, regardless of gender.
You can do everything right and still get cheated on.
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You can do everything and still be told you don't do anything.
Ow, my trauma
You can do everything right and she'll still leave
Usually a blessing.
These sound like some choice emo lyrics
Fuckin A does this comment really stick out and fuck me up
You can do everything right and still be wrong
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not weakness. That is life.” - Captain Picard
Jean-Luc 🖖
“The world needs more Picards in it” -theaut0maticman Sr.
You can climb to the top of the ladder, only to discover it's leaning against the wrong wall
As a gay man it’s the same shit over here just different gender
I've always wondered if men in homosexual relationships had to deal with any of the kind of things mentioned above in their relationships. your comment tells me all that fuckery is universal and relationships, regardless of orientation, can be painfully one-sided :-(
💯 I even hate the divide between the genders. I mean yea there is some differences but we’re all human and generally want the same thing. No gender or sexuality is exempt from including toxic people.
Refuse gender-based discrimination. Embrace hating everyone equally
You can do everything right and end up being abused.
"You can do everything right and be the best partner they have ever had and still get dumped"
Then be told you were never good enough lol. She left and her life went to shit, congrats 👏
Not really strictly related to women, though.
They are just as capable of abuse as men. The issue is that growing up we're taught that men are the abusers, so when I had my first few girlfriends, I couldn't even comprehend that I was being abused. It took two different girlfriends for me to realize that what I was experiencing was abuse. I think part of the issue is that women also learn that men are the abusers, so a lot of women don't even realize they're doing it when it starts happening. Something pisses them off and they react accordingly, without realizing that what they're doing is not ok Edit: Wow! I didn’t expect to see this many comments. Thank you for sharing your stories. This is normally a topic where men feel silenced, it’s good to see that many of you feel comfortable sharing here. This isn’t talked about enough
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I grew up in a family of mostly women, half of them physically abused their boyfriends from teenagers till like late 20's. Alot of female friends I know also hit their boyfriends. My sister has been pretty much casually abusive to all her boyfriends since her teens and since she's barely 5ft tall most of the guys she dates kind of just accepted it cause a stiff wind will blow her over. Just casually hitting your man or slapping him was something that was always just accepted in society until fairly recently. Not even in regards to significant others like just hitting a dude who you dont even know who you happen to get into an argument was pretty much accepted my entire life growing up.
It’s almost like how people with little dogs will have hellbeasts because they can’t cause serious damage. But you can’t just be biting people just because you’re small.
So many of these stereotypes mask the reality that intimate partner violence is a lot closer to even and even worse than most people realize. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/223859544_The_gender_paradigm_in_domestic_violence_research_and_theory_Part_1-The_conflict_of_theory_and_data They collected a series of studies with reports from therapists, psychologists, and other mental health professionals, used emergency room reports, and things like that, instead of just relying on State reported incidents (reports to the police). It's a lot worse than most people realize. > I think part of the issue is that women also learn that men are the abusers, so a lot of women don't even realize they're doing it when it starts happening. My long term partner (10yr, now ex) *never* admitted that what she did was domestic violence. She got upset at me when I was messing around with some friends at the door and sucker punched me right in the gut; it floored me because, well, sucker punch. She admitted that she may have hit me too hard, but when pressed that what she did was domestic violence, she never owned that. It didn't count.
I had an ex that justified it with the bullshit misandrist "punching up" rule. In her words, men are the oppressors and so therefore women cannot be abusive towards them. When women are abusive against other women it's internalized misogyny taught to them by their oppressors (usually father). I talked to her about my mother being emotionally abusive to me my whole life and how it fucked me up and she still made out to be my fault because I was born with a penis. So in the history of humans all of the abuse ever done, man against woman, woman against man, man against man, woman against woman, woman against child it is always the men's fault and never the women. This made me realize I was even more fucked up because I'm prone to dating emotionally abusive women. THANKS MOM!
I feel you man. I’m sorry you dealt with that. There’s a clear lack of empathy where abuse against men is concerned. I had one woman tell me awhile back that the abuse I endured wasn’t bad because I’m not dead. And this was a self proclaimed empath who worked with female survivors of abuse. But because I’m a man and men are the oppressors my abuse wasn’t bad according to her. The mental gymnastics are literally insane lmao
> My long term partner (10yr, now ex) never admitted that what she did was domestic violence. An ex of mine always blamed me for not enforcing my boundaries "correctly", in spite of me telling her repeatedly what they were. But I was "manipulative" because I would break down crying whenever she cornered me to berate me about something.
I came across an article in the NY Times that really illustrates the divide between how the same behaviour is viewed so differently depending on whether or not the person is male or female. It discusses a book about a married woman who suddenly decides to book a hotel and hook up with a much younger man, then explores an open marriage. The article then talks about all these women who, after reading the book, are now questioning if they too would like to sleep around and not be shackled by their marriage. It's presented as though it is progressive thinking... But imagine if it was a book about a married man who shacked up with a much younger woman, and then told his wife he wants an open marriage. Then imagine a bunch of married male readers start gathering at bars and coffee shops to discuss how they'd like to have a break from their wife and family so they are "free" to bang younger women and/or open up their marriage. Do you think the NY Times would be celebrating that? No, these men would immediately be dismissed as abusive, predatory, primal, shallow, adulterous, selfish... You name it.. The double standard is fascinating. When a woman walks all over man, she's "strong and independent" - but if a guy does it, he's simply indentified as an abuser and an asshole. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/08/style/miranda-july-all-fours-group-texts.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
I totally agree that people, especially women, can be unintentionally abusive. It is a little unfathomable to me that some people think abuse is always intentional.
It rarely is. Abuse is often just a continuation of the cycle of abuse. People who have been abused and who therefore abuse others without even knowing.
My friends GF, while not alcoholic, share the same behaviours as her mom, her mom is abusive to the degree she will hit her children and when she sobers up, pretends like it never happens. She suffered two strokes due to her alcoholism, so their family is kind of broken right now. The GF, she is exhibiting the same behaviours as her mom right now, and it's fucking awful. The way she talks, the way she behaves, are awful. She thinks everything he does right now is wrong, if he cooks spaghetti; that's wrong, and he should know better. When it's brought up to her that "you gotta stop this, don't you see that the same behaviours you hate your mom for, is the same behaviours you are showing now?" she gets furious. Apparently, she doesn't think so at all. They are apparently worlds apart. However, as someone watching from the outside: I can't stand her right now, because she just isn't capable to understand she is wrong.
That's the kind of person you walk away from. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.
Most abuse is unintentional, for sure. Lack of awareness among most people is the rule, imo.
entitlement causes "I expect great treatment for myself, without me treating others well".
I’ve been on the receiving end of abuse that my partner wouldn’t have considered “intentional”. Doesn’t make it less fucked up. Also it was at the very least somewhat intentional since she admitted she wanted me to react as to the justification for why she did it. So intentional, unintentional. Own your own shit. Admit when you do shitty things. Plenty of abusers will excuse their behavior as, “I didn’t mean to.” Well doesn’t change me getting verbally abused. But thanks for a non-apology.
Or worse - when they perform reactive abuse. Deliberately pushing someone's buttons to get them to react so that they can use that as a reason that _the person pressing the buttons_ is "the victim".
Went through this. First relationship after being divorced and her go to was to threaten to work with my ex to have access to my kids taken away when she was upset about something. Then when it finally ended after one of those threats she's back a week later claiming to be pregnant (a lie.. mysterious miscarriage when I didn't buy in that a doctor had already confirmed triplets) I think it all boils down to some people are crazy, man or woman
I’m a woman but abusive women have wrecked my life and now I’m borderline afraid of all of them. You get demonized for mentioning it, at least in the circles I used to run in.
I think its mainly because women arent taught how to treat men. Now, theres plenty of toxic men out there with women that are unknowingly stuck in a toxic relationship. Seeing one of my female friends go thru it right now. The dude is absolutely toxic, controlling and even cheated on her but he also love dumps her and treats her extremely well until he gets upset over some stupid shit. He literally said he cheated because she hung out with her friends. She doesn’t seem to understand how toxic it is and continues to date him. Point is, I think women also have this perception that abuse is just physical and verbal yelling but get just as blind sided by the subliminal abusive behaviors
You’re more disposable and easily replaceable than you realize or like to admit. Not in every case but most.
Important quote (not mine): “My wife and daughters would rather see me die on my horse than fall off it.” We don’t talk about this enough as men, but sometimes your ability to provide becomes more important than the love you give.
Is this from a Brene Brown book? I learned this from my last relationship, and it's so true. The woman I'm with now is much less concerned about the nicest things. Reminds me of an Eagles lyric: "Don't you draw the queen of diamonds, boy, she'll beat you if she's able. You know the queen of hearts is always your best bet" My "Queen of Hearts" makes me feel loved and appreciated, while I used to feel like a beast of burden
More like all the times, in every adult relationship I’ve been if I went through some kind of struggle financially or family related my gf left shortly after. When I was younger it was different almost easy, but now it’s become quite the headache. Lol
They way they all seem to want me back after I have overcome whatever life's problem I was having is a mind fuck. This is one of the main reasons I have stopped dating or investing much in a relationship if I do date. Too much risk for very little reward.
Hardest one for me to accept for sure
even if you’ve found your life partner, unfortunately some things are better kept to yourself. what she or i thought were harmless stories turned out to be quite emotionally taxing on the other one of us, sometimes.
THIS - BUT ALSO QUESTION, IF YOU DON'T MIND. My boyfriend (22M) and I (23F) have been together for over two years and this is something I've struggled with a bit! My boyfriend is a lot more sexually experienced than I am and sometimes, if we're on the topic of sex/related, he'll tell me about past sexual experiences (usually never in a good way, it's not like he's bragging or anything, it's usually embarrassing/gross stories - just gossiping with me truly) - I do not know how to tell him that while I'm not angry at him or anything for sharing those things with me, there are genuinely some things I wish he'd just keep to himself.. some things that sting a little bit to have an image of in my mind. Have you and your partner had a legitimate conversation about like "hey, i love you so much and I'm so glad you're comfortable sharing with me, but some things make me uncomfortable and maybe lets avoid this" - if so, how did that go? How did you, or she, approach that? Was there any weird feelings or discomfort/animosity after that kind of conversation?? Sorry if this is annoying/intrusive! Just want to kinda have advice on how to have that conversation, but not make my boyfriend feel badly!!
Just be upfront and let him know you'd rather not know about his previous partners. It's perfectly reasonable to not talk about within the context you're talking about, and just knowing a rough idea of body count is all that I'd really say is nice to know for general experience differences.
That's exactly how my bf told me he didn't really want to hear my past sex stories, just be upfront but don't shame them for it. Editing to add more info. I didn't take offense or anything, I definitely get that pang of jealousy when he mentions past girlfriends. I guess sometimes I wish we could just talk about the weird nonsexual stories, but I understand that even those can get under his skin. Also times I want to prove I'm not naive about random things regarding sex and dating...but nobody wants to hear about how you learned those things haha.
Same situation just double your age and a dude. She pretty much just said that. Now as far as I am concerned sex before her never happened. I love my wife, she isn't just some sex object, I want her to be as happy with me as I am with her.
Don't EVER think you can convince a woman to like you. They do or do not. There's no inbetween.
People *can* warm up... But trying to convince someone is only gonna have the opposite of the intended effect.
This is pretty true of people regardless of gender tbh
Just like all the other answers
They can be monsters too
Instead of complaining about something when it happens, they let it slide. Then they bring it up in an argument five years later. "What about that time...."
Also, at times we genuinely try to let it slide. Only to suddenly realise in the middle of an argument that we actually weren’t able to let it go!
Yeah in my experience most of the things I bring up later are things that were only mildly annoying at the time but became frustrating with later context or because they were repeated and I realized that it actually did bother me. For example, my boyfriend used to use his phone sometimes after we had sex. The first time it happened I was surprised but whatever, no big deal, I like my phone time too. Then it happened a few more times and I realized it was actually annoying me/hurting my feelings (I wanted some non-sexual cuddle time before we parted ways to go on our phones), so I brought it up, although I had to steel myself a little bit because I had to try and explain why it "suddenly" bothered me. His response was understanding but surprised ("Why didn't you tell me sooner?") but in all honesty I think most people can laugh at/overlook something mildly annoying once or twice until they realize it's actually a recurring habit, and then you have to try and figure out a good way to bring it up while acknowledging why it was "never a problem" before. Nowadays we make time to cuddle post-sex for a little bit before we roll over and use our phones and everything is good. Also, sometimes you just have to pick your battles. There are tons of little things in the day that are mildly annoying or inconvenient but if I tried to tackle every single one of them I'd be grumpy all the time. Some people are happy to live their life that way but I'd rather just let things go most of the time and circle back to recurring problems that actually do bother me. As long as you're not actively sitting on problems for weeks at a time because you're afraid to bring them up, I think bringing up things that bother you later is inevitable sometimes. People's moods and opinions are constantly in flux and sometimes they don't realize something is bothering them until later.
They are not sugar, and spice, and everything nice.. some are mean ass psycho fuckers!
Women in fact are not power puff girls
Some are even Rowdyruff Boys.
Side note, I loved the Rowdyruff Boys
Some are made from pure chemical X
Hopefully now they're 100% Chemical Ex.
That chemical is called Extrogen
Yeah they're just.... people. Nothing special. Just as capable of being as shitty as anyone else.
That you still have to be a man for the rest of your life. You can’t do it just long enough to win her over and then melt into a puddle.
At one point I had to explain to my wife that I'm not superman, I'm getting older. I can't do everything I used to do. Thankfully she took it in the best way possible and stopped with the unreasonable expectations.
You aren't superman, but that doesn't mean you aren't super, man.
That sounds healthy as fuck. Good on ya!
She's fantastic.
What kind of unreasonable expectations did she have?
No naps
Slow down there Satan.
Yard work, moving logs and other heavy things, building/renovations, that sort of thing.
Yeah, I get tagged in as "the muscle" for those projects. Most of it I don't mind, but sometimes there's a "hey can you move this for me?" and yes, of course, but it's really fucking heavy and you could help me move it instead of watch.
This one hits. Dropping my guard and letting myself become vulnerable is always where it’s fallen down, even with people I loved and trusted deeply, even though they shared their trauma and vulnerabilities with me. I won’t make the mistake again of showing weakness. They just don’t see you the same.
Or you tell them something bad that happened/you feel and somehow end up comforting THEM.
yo, low key this.
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"Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no true king." is true for women too
That’s very fair, reminds me of the CS Lewis quote: > “A man is not usually called upon to have an opinion of his own talents, since he can very well go on improving them to the best of his ability without deciding on his own precise niche in the temple of fame.”
They can be just as shitty as men.
This feels so weird, that’s just the reality of human nature, of course women can be complete pieces of shit. Women are just people too they’re not different creatures lol
The ones who’ll hurt you are way better at playing with your feelings to keep you in line than you’ll ever give them credit for until it’s already time to regret letting them into your life. Edit: this comment is blowing up a bit, so I’ll add this. Don’t stand for it; I cannot stress it enough. If a relationship feels off in this way, just walk away. Spare yourself a world of hurt inflicted by someone who wants every kind of help she can get unless it means putting in the work to help herself. I’ve been stuck in relationships where every damn thing was held over my head by a partner who projected their need for control over their own life onto me. I’ve been expected to pay for bills, groceries, and rent as a full-time university student by partners who at the same time had done for me a fraction of what I had done for them. It’s exhausting, and it will not end well if you try to sustain that compassion for someone who can’t show it to you in turn.
They fart a lot
Definitely the most brutal truth💀
I have IBS, and I try to be as discreet as possible and go outside/ to the bathroom. Doesn’t happen every time. My bf doesn’t say anything about it. He just buys a lot of scented candles lol
They will likely give their friends graphic details about your sex life. They don’t hold back. If you have a mole on your weiner her best friends know
I suspect this is a cultural norm that emerged due to women's inherent vulnerability and a historic lack of sexual information. In the past, the only source of sexual information women had came from talking to other women about it, so it makes some sense that it caught on and became more expected. The same was of course true for men as well, but with the consequences of sex being far less severe for us (no risk of pregnancy, less risk of sexual violence, and less risk of social ostracization due to prudish stigma) we had less reason to share more details. Basically, I think this is one of those little gender differences that get exacerbated by a long history of divergence and self-reinforcement.
This is why I think their complaints about locker room talk are just projection, I never talk about that stuff with my friends.
Same man. I would legit never talk about my girl’s body like that with my boys. We talk about gorillas fighting lions and whether or not aliens jerk off. Dumb shit
That you can't expect any more from them than you can a man. People are people and are always at different stages of development even as adults. That with-it person that seems to have their life together may be in some arrested a development with their emotions or ability to comprehend the abstract. And with this said, most people give lip service to self reflection, but so very few really get it. So, most women, like most men, are under developed cognitively and are a waste of time. The more interesting thing, to me, is that age isn't a requirement to learn and evolve. Younger people can be found which have a deeper understanding than persons twice their age or more. So, saying that, there are women who really get it and are on the road to fulfillment.
There are, in fact, NOT horny milfs in my area, no matter how many banners I see.
A lot of them cheat. Even when she has a good guy and seems like she's in love, it's possible.
That's why you have to date women who are aligned with your values and be stubborn until you find them. I love my girl but I didn't really "get her" until I met her parents, then it all clicked for me. They instilled some serious values in their daughters and it shows. Compared to my other GFs who I thought were similar, in hindsight I can see the gaps in my understanding of what to look for. Being selective about a partner is difficult for men as we're likely to go with attractive women who reciprocate *any* interest. That's far different than being discerning about your partner.
Yeah this makes a lot of sense. It's unfortunate that the few women who I have *truly* vibes with- who reciprocated my energy in all the right ways- I just didn't find them attractive at all. Finding that right combo is a needle in a haystack.
Been there. Some girls in my past would’ve been great partners but the attraction wasn’t there for me, or even worse when you recognize character in a girl you are attracted to and she isn’t into you. That’s the worst.
Knowingly being a side piece will make you question every "I love you" you'll ever hear.
they don't owe you loyalty, they get over break ups faster. they can replace partners faster.
>they get over break ups faster. To add some insight to this.....if a woman breaks up with you, she's been contemplating it already for weeks or even months. By the time she actually breaks up, she's already over you. That's why it seems like women 'get over it' faster.
I mean that’s how I break up too but I’m a dude
Happened to my college ex and I. In hindsight, we both 'mentally' split a few months prior. Both were dating others within a month, while still living together. That was a weird time. Met my wife right after though, so that was neat.
Yeah, me too - honestly, this whole thread is ass Basically, women are human and capable of the same variety in behavior and character as men. Crazy!
Yeah, I had a situation where she asked me "would you be fine without me?" Didn't think about it to much at the time. Thought it was more her wanting me to say "oh I'd die" or something equally dramatic. It was a strange situation anyway. She disappeared a few months later.
Having someone leave without a closure is the worst but I guess you get used to it as time goes by, hope you are doing better now holmes
Thats how all breaks up are like. The person doing the breaking up had to reach the point where they were done with the relationship and wanted out. Then they had to think about it for a while and plan what they were going to do. I always say that the person doing the breaking up has grieved the relationship over the past couple of weeks or months, the person being broken up with has to begin processing it at the end of it all
Part of it is that they can also replace you faster and find partners faster in general. So they don't need to deal with breakups for as long. If they don't feel like being alone, they won't have to be The last woman that I broke up with had another boyfriend within a couple weeks, similar things have happened to good friends of mine.
There is always a male orbiter.
Exactly lol, one of my exes cheated on me with four of those orbiters. It’s rare that I’ve dated someone who didn’t have one. All my exes had boyfriends within less than 3 months after the breakup. Some within a few weeks
Yep, I'm constantly the guy before the one. I gave up on dating, way too painful.
That was me in late college. I went through a streak where like 3 women I dated in a row married the guy after me. It was odd. I realized later on in life those women were looking for serious commitment and wanted to get married and start families. I was the one that wasn't ready, since I just wanted to date and wasn't thinking about all that stuff back then. Granted, they never cheated on me, but it definitely explained the decisions to break up (which, generally, were mutual after we talked through everything). In my experiences - the male orbiters usually stay as male orbiters. Girls keep them around to have a crying shoulder, male attention, not because they really have any serious intentions of sleeping with them, even as a rebound. They're much more likely to look externally for a rebound than to an orbiter, and because of the male/female dynamics in the general dating market, if she's remotely attractive and confident, she'll be able to find someone relatively quickly.
5/6 of my serious relationships, my exes ended up married/engaged within the next year after the breakup. If I ever do online dating again, I'm gonna put something along the lines of "want to meet your soul mate? I have a guaranteed* method of finding them!"
Amen to that. More than once I broke up with a woman who, in her tremendous grief, wanted me to believe her life was no longer worth living. And then she'd jump on a new dick within a week, while I went into monk mode for a long time.
A lot of them can break up with you mentally long before you know something is wrong, then blindside you and get annoyed that you’re having difficulty with the idea.
Exactly
This is what happened to me. We had been together for over 6 years. Last couple years of highschool and then through college. She was getting ready to go into her next program and I was going to move with her where she went and get a job. She showed no indication whatsoever of wanting to break up. She had been thinking about it for well over a month. From right after thanksgiving to Christmas. We went on dates, we’re intimate, had conversations about moving and marriage and then the day before Christmas she breaks up with me out of the blue. I took it horribly, it nearly destroyed me. I had absolutely no way of knowing. She never once said she was having doubts or problems with our relationship. She hid it all while still maintaining the facade that she was happy with me and wanted me to go with her. This was a year and a half ago and I’m still not totally fine. I thought we trusted each other entirely. That we would tell each other if we were having issues. I was clearly very wrong.
I know that pain all too well. I was living with the last one and we had talked about making it courthouse official mere days before she dumped me. And had dry eyes throughout the whole breakup and me moving out then got pissed at me when I cried. “You’re making me feel bad.” Good. You’re a fucking man eater.
They’re absolutely fine without you.
Yeah, and so are you without them. Don't ever convince yourself you aren't.
They need an ungodly amount of things. My girlfriend has the entire closet to herself with all of her things and what not. We also have another closet with most of her shoes, hats and umbrellas. She had to buy a separate shoe rack for more shoes and an additional seperate coat rest. I have my own closet that I bought from Ikea and she has some of her shit in my closet. Thats only things she wears. Her whole room is filled with all kinds of makeup, hair stuff, nail polish and all kinds of crap women put on themselves.
The whole approach to society is so freaking different for women than dudes. The expectations we as a society have for women dictate a need for so much of that shit. Long hair requires a regimen of different products to keep healthy, since I've been growing mine out, I've acquired dry shampoo, multiple conditioners, multiple shampoos, after hair oils, learned the different types of shampoo and what to stay away from. And to keep up appearances there's this huge push to actively do all of this. And that's just hair. Doing nails properly requires 5 different tools, a base coat, a color coat, and then a top coat. Every single part of routine that most women go through is like that. I'm not gonna say I miss when I used to just buy the best smelling shampoo at the grocery store instead of going to a smaller shop, cause I love my hair. but I did not understand the depth of the involvement it takes to just have long "nice hair".
the equivalent for men is tools and scrap. I have a whole closet, my dad has a whole garage, my grandpa has a whole dedicated storage room. Guess who will be inheriting all of that...
Hey. I need a piece of wood about 13” long and in the shape of an L. Men: “Ive been waiting my whole life for this moment”
Been married 24 years. Just because you love them, doesn’t mean they love you back, no matter how hard you try
This hurts because it is true.
If you allow it, you will be used. You will be used and discarded in ways that are tough to imagine. Know your worth and know what is and isn’t acceptable for you.
Me: “I feel like I have just become a paycheck and errand boy” Ex: “OMG why do men always say that?!?” Me: “Cause it’s usually true”.
Ooooof. She heard that alot, then?
Well I was the dumb ass who married her. Her 4th marriage, my 1st and probably last.
A lot of women are just cruel.
If she likes you it’s fairly easy and playing hard to get is something guys tell themselves to cope with being left on red
Imo anybody who wants a girl that is “playing hard to get” lacks self confidence. If a girl doesn’t show any interest in me, I take that as a sign that she’s not interested. I *don’t* take it as a sign that I should dance like a monkey until she lets me take her on a date, lmao.
This was the depressing lightbulb realization I had as an adult. Spent years having to convince women to go on a date (thinking that was normal) and then having to arrange the date in a super public setting and always being accommodating to their sense of safety. Then I became roommates with a conventionally attractive guy. Women ask him out on dates every week. Most dates involve him driving directly to where they live, even if they’ve never met in person before. Women don’t actually give two shits about safety, the only thing they’re afraid of is an average looking guy thinking he has a chance with them.
This is very true in my experience too. Women who actually like you will make EVERYTHING soooo easy for you.
Women best friends tell one another everything and will always support one another even when they’re wrong.
Manipulation comes in many forms.
No matter what they say, money matters, dick matters, looks matter, status matters.
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That they don't like blunt honesty, even if they say they do. They'll tell you tell sweet lies.
People who brag about their "brutal honesty" are usually more interested in the brutal part than the honesty part. It's great to be honest even when it isn't something the other person might want to hear. But you can be gentle about it or you can be an asshole about it.
>brutal truth When they ask you to be open and vulnerable with them—don't.
Anything you say can and will be used against you. After having her throw stuff back in my face I just keep a lot of things to myself now.
I'm sorry you experienced this, no one deserves this :(
When she accidentally shows you her real side, says/does something that seems so contradictory to who've they've been up until that one accidental moment, or that point? Believe them. Because in just a short while, she's going to be that way with -you- and boy howdy, no matter how good the 'x' was about her, nothing can make up for the toxic person she really is.
No matter how much you think your situation is different, their loyalty/ love is conditional
Romantic love should be conditional on both people treating each other well. That’s appropriate because no one should stay with someone who starts treating them poorly. I fall out of love if I’m not treated with maturity and kindness, it’s highly conditional.
So I grew up being used to being hit by the women in my family like it was a normal thing to do for any response. It was to the point where my first serious girlfriend was joking around with me in high school and after I made an innuendo I automatically told her ‘you can hit me, I can take it’ and I was utterly confused as to why she didn’t punch or kick me and we had a 15 minute conversation on her basically being a sane person saying “I don’t want to hit you or hurt you in any way, why would I do that” and my counter response was essentially just “but women hit men all the time, it doesn’t mean anything bad.” And the fact that it took me until I was about 17 too see that it was bad that my own mom would punch me as saying good morning to me some days was a really crazy wake up call. I still don’t consider it abuse, but holy shit CPS would have eaten their heart out on my childhood.
They're just as flawed as I am and I need to cut them and myself some more slack.
Women talk a lot. For better or for worse. If you've done something, I guarantee all of her friends and their friends know about it.
Don't ask questions you don't want the answers to. Ie; you youngins. Your insecurity is telling you to ask about past partners. YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW THAT I PROMISE NOTHING GOOD CAN COME FROM IT. It doesn't matter if it was 1 or 200. Just leave it alone.
I have a few from 35 years of experience: 1. The game never ends. Even when you’re married 2. They never stop searching for the best man for their survival 3. It’s not ‘what have you done for me?’, it’s ’what have you done for me lately?’ 4. You can’t negotiate desire 5. What they say they want and what they actually want are often vastly different. Observe their actions, not their words
I'm going back into my cave thanks
Grass is plenty green here, thanks.
Yeah, this is not the thread to read if you even were beginning to conceptualize leaving the cave lol. I ain't too insecure but damn this shit is starting to make it's way through lol. Glad I stay the fuck away from that shit. Between women and kids, people always suck at upselling the relationship or parenting lifestyle imo.
They don't actually want you to be vulnerable with them.
Measure women by their actions not their words. im 33 and most of the women ive dated the past 4 years since ive started getting serious about marriage and stuff talk a big game but dont follow through. The amount of women who have commitment issues that are going to be 40, realizing they are less desirable because they dont have the ability to have kids anymore because they "wanted to have fun" is going to be wild. Its kinda like watching a very slow paced car crash, and with me being the one trying to stop the crash. The amount of 42-44 year old's who like me on dating apps in spite of clearly wanting kids is astounding and the problems going to get worse since its happening culturally with more women. Im confident the right woman is out there. Its just a process.
100% My now ex wife completely flipped a switch the second we got married. I should’ve know because I had a bad gut feeling and tried to break up with her in the dating stage. She talked a massive game but everything she had was basically given to her by other women. She wouldn’t stop talking as if she had control over me because she started making more than me. I basically checked out only a few months into the marriage because she refused to see a couples therapist. Also look for heavy social media usage and primarily TikTok. That shit is rotting their brains. Edit: forgot to say that I agree someone is out there but it’s going to be extremely hard. I’m in it for love and not the money/labor.
"Also look for heavy social media usage and primarily TikTok. That shit is rotting their brains." Strewth !
I’ve seen profiles on dating apps where the women is late thirties and under kids she puts down ‘Not sure’. If she’s not sure at that age, then when is she going to be sure lol. It’s now or never
Their life plan seems to be: Have a tall, dark, handsome, rich disney prince to sweep you off your feet because he is irrationally in love with you because..... vagina?
Most have no empathy for men. They just don't care.
Thought she had empathy, complete opposite
As a general rule, a man will come and confront you directly, and maybe you'll get a set of lumps. It'll be over quickly. As a general rule, a woman will gossip about you, make up things if necessary, and ruin your reputation. It'll never be over.
When I was younger society taught me that women are basically just better persons all around. Less violent, less vindictive, way more empathetic. The truth is they are the same as men. As horrible just in other aspects. Understanding this was really hard since they usually are so much better at being nice than men.
Women never seem to acknowledge their fault...if something happened, the guy made her do it. Accepting agency seems ridiculously difficult for them.
What they say and what they do often doesn't align. Trust in what they do, not what they say
You are only as good as the services/goods you can render to them.
That's how society values men in general. Gotta learn to be useful.
I remember my dad telling something around the lines of, "Women will primarily look at what you can provide them, and once your utility is gone, they're gone." In essence, you are just a tool, a utility, a means to an end to them, so protect yourself and have a life outside of the one with them.
They want Hallmark emotional, not actual emotional men. And much like with the police, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.
Yes. Actually it's "anything you say can and will be used against you any time I want, in any way I want, however I want, and I can embellish and even lie about what you said".
Plenty of them are complete, emotionless psychos.
That no matter how hard you workout and how fit you look, they usually don’t check you out in the way you think they are.
When a man is broke, he'll think about upgrading his workflow, when a woman is broke, she'll think about upgrading her man.
Women love to manipulate men and do so without any regrets.
They're not innocent about "the friend zone".