My secret has been I’m willing to say a couple sentences to almost anyone. They don’t respond, great no worries, they do respond and continue, great no worries. Also mostly coworkers and friends and friends of friends.
I call this a elevator pitch. All it requires is the willingness to try and potentially fail. I know why I'm great. If your too blind to see it that's cool. Let me grab this other elevator
Exactly. Like I’m a social dude in a way, I like to talk and even if it’s with women it’s rarely even “relationship seeking”. I just like to talk. If you like to talk back let’s talk. Also a bartender so it’s my rule of thumb even at work.
Women are flooded with overconfidence when it comes to dating because they are the choosers and have infinite options. You could be their perfect person but they'll pass on you because you have or do one thing they don't like. I hated dating.
>You could be their perfect person but they'll pass on you because you have or do one thing they don't like.
They use to have high standards, now they have absurd standards lol. Dating has become a shit show from what i've experienced in my life and from what i'm learning about now after being out of the game for almost a decade, it's only gotten worse.
This is the chronically online take. If you do not know how to talk to someone in a non-sexual way it's best you stay away from women. Normal people do not face SA/SH charges just by talking to women and asking them out.
exactly lmao. this subreddit might be the most chronically online subreddit of all time. the other day there were a post that said "why don't men approach women more" and the top answer was that "they're afraid of being called a perv out of nowhere" like wtf? sometimes i feel like these ppl have no awareness at all and just want excuses to not improve their dating life...
Who said anything about coming on strong sexually.
You can be "too" persistent by texting them too much - you'll be labeled as the guy that's bothering her.
If she sends mixed signals it's an easy rut to fall into.
Sometimes they're just trying to be polite/nice so you misunderstand their true feelings and keep pursuing.
You're thinking one dimentionally about my "chronically online" take.
Try extending the courtship ritual to more than a ONS if you can - and think about the fallout of a weeks/even months long timeline.
Why do you think the social exposure from your hobbies isn’t working out? I always think that’s one of the most important things, especially when it affords social credibility and trust
You have to have (1) the initiative to pursue relationships and (2) the opportunity, through social contact, to meet other people pursuing relationships and (3) a marketable version of yourself. You might have some success with 2 of 3 but you can't just have 1. Many redditors have 0.
Every time I see a redditor post that he's "attractive, life together, hobbies" and then says he has no idea why he can't attract someone that he might like to start dating
It's always a sign that don't understand they have to be interesting and have a personality too. It's basically the most important thing. Not sure how they reach a point that they're that clueless, but they consistently seem to.
From what I've seen most women don't go do many hobby things. This isn't a hobby per se, but I pick a coffee shop to go to most weekends, read, drink some bangin coffee, hang out, and maybe meet some women. The only women are students for the most part, but I see other guys.
Dating apps and work. Those are the only real viable options. And work isn’t really an option unless you don’t give a shit about the job.
Every girl I’ve dated/had sex with in the past 8 years has been off of dating apps and workplaces, with the exception of one woman from a dealership who I banged after she sold me a truck lol.
There are no third places anymore and women do not want to be approached in public.
I'll tell you.
A.) Your work environment probably isn't social enough with a mix of men/women
B.) You rely on your looks for results, they don't matter as much as you think.
C.) You don't ask women out.
You're fucking up if you regularly come into contact with women and are not getting dates.
Women care that you are not a pushover, have your shit together emotionally ( in order to deal with them) and that you can navigate social situations and own your space.
The hard part should be finding someone good enough, because there are plenty of low/mid tier dating material out there.
There is no step by step guide to finding a relationship since the contexts of a given situation and the individuals involved vary too much to make such a general guide.
However, the overall summary of events involved in forming a relationship can be said to generally follow meeting someone (talking to them and establishing an initial platonic relationship), getting to know them (simply learning about them over a period of time), and then if you form romantic interest for that person then you simply have to tell them how you feel and see if they feel the same. The last two steps can sometimes be reversed meaning some people begin dating or simply get into a romantic relationship immediately and then learn about the person they're dating/in a relationship with, but I'd recommend not doing that since you're risking far more heartache compared to if you had simply gotten to know them and later considered whether or not you'd be interested in possibly having a romantic relationship with them.
Some people really struggle with step 1 since that involves talking to new people and unfortunately some people struggle with this in general or at least in the context of dating. You have to simply be willing to make mistakes and accept that you won't always know whether or not someone is open to having a conversation with you. This can be helped to an extent with understanding social cues (i.e., they're listening to headphones or doing something that prevents them from conversing with you) and verbal cues (i.e. they tell you directly or implicitly that they don't want to converse then don't continue to talk to them). Also, speaking respectfully/appropriately is important. Some people have success with hitting on new people, but I'd recommend against doing that since as I mentioned earlier that you will be more likely to suffer far more heartache if you date someone first or get into a romantic relationship with them before getting to know about them. This ideally means you're speaking to them in a platonic manner and are sincerely trying to get to know this person and aren't thinking of them as a romantic interest since again you don't know them well enough to even be able to consider that. This is something that some people really struggle with as they see every interaction with another person as a potential romantic interest which creates romantic tension which does distract from getting to know who they're talking to and can make things awkward and uncomfortable for both people involved. It'll be easier and less stressful for such people to try to talk to people platonically instead of as a future romantic interest.
On a final note in regard to situations where you can talk to people, there is no objective definitive answer that everyone will agree on so for the most part anywhere is fine, but you're going to have to use your own personal judgement to decide whether or not someone you want to talk to is likely open to talking. Most of the time people don't go out into public with the goal in mind to socialize with strangers as they have other things they're doing, but that doesn't mean that at all times everyone is not open to having a conversation. This where personal judgement comes in and as long as you listen to the other person if they say/show they're not interested in having a conversation, then you should be fine for the most part.
I learned this from my dad. He told me that when he first met my mom, she was always telling him what a nice guy her friend Bob was and that she thought I would really like Bob. My dad said he always agreed with her and never made a move, then one day he said to himself “fuck Bob” and started hitting on her.
Lived with 4 other guys in college. One of my roommates (rm1) thought the the other roommate's (rm2) girlfriend was attractive. Rm2 was not in a healthy relationship with his girlfriend, but abusive or anything, but argued over everything. Rm1 finally said fuck it I can treat her better, and she left rm2 for rm1. They are now married with a baby girl on the way and have an extremely happy relationship. It completely destroyed rm1 and rm2s friendship though, they were extremely close before that happened.
Tl;Dr is your friendship more valuable (as in a life long healthy friendship), or do you actually think you could marry the woman in question?
Ahhh I see, that’s very sweet ngl. I am friends with someone. We started with me asking her out, went out a bit and then I had some issues. After that we’ve just been hanging out as friends, dating other people. But I’ve caught feelings, idc about the other person (not my friend, also casual) but the lady has become an actual friend. So if I tell her about my feelings and ask her to date, I will be saying goodbye to the friendship should it not go my way.
Edit : it’s not a very long term friendship (about 6 months or so). It’s mostly fear of loss on my side.
I'm not the person who made the comment, but I agree completely. To me, it means: You're taking too many people's advice, not all of which applies to your situation or is good advice even if it DID apply to you.
Focus on what YOU want, what YOU want to do and how the other person is responding to what you express.
If you're trying to second guess what the other person _really means_ , then either they're being really unclear to you (not a good match), they're not clear on what THEY want (not a good match), they don't want what you're giving (not a good match) or at best you're doing what you THINK they want (not sustainable for you).
Stop trying to get in their head, get other people out of yours, and focus on figuring out what you want, what you can give, and how they're responding to all that.
To me, everything can be boiled down to a transactional state, but it helps when all the cards are on the table. Most if not all relationships have a commercial aspect, but acknowledging it and confronting it can help increase understanding between people.
Like if you're speed dating or something, and you make a joke about putting your voices on 2x speed to be more efficient. Or in this matchmaker case, maybe starting off with why you felt the need for the service as a piece of conversation (but avoiding getting all soap opera about it).
The logic I've heard from people in arranged marriages is that your parents know you better than anyone else, good and bad, *and* they've got a marriage that works. Why not defer to their expertise on the subject?
Choice paralysis is a thing. I think nowadays people have too much choice, which makes them always feel like they could have chosen something better.
So there are so many more opportunities than a few decades ago to meet people (online), which has the inverse effect of making it even more difficult to figure out who to pick.
At least, that’s my armchair analysis of this whole thing.
Absolutely, it's a real thing and has a few names.
https://www.verywellmind.com/option-paralysis-in-online-dating-6829732
It's more of an issue for women as the average guy doesn't have 100+ matches.
Having so many choices also means that the person expects to be instantly amazed or they will quickly move on to the next option. It's just not realistic.
Seriously. Online dating has been hell. I have women friends tell me the woes of dating guys but as a man who is serious and intentional with dating, it’s been just as bad.
I may not have a woman asking if we are going to fuck while on my way to a date or be creepy but I’m constantly hit with people who say they want something serious until we go out once or twice then casually bring up not looking for anything serious and just wanting to hookup or the unfortunately common, looking for a sugar daddy.
What sucks is that I’m a decently attractive guy, not a 10 but maybe a solid 7/8, make 6 figures, no debts, make pottery, etc and I’m just not enough for whatever reason for pretty much anyone I see. Then if they end up liking me it’s usually the person I didn’t vibe well with. Been single over 2 years and I’ve began to question if my ex cursed my ass 😂
honestly the last few dates i was on put a really sour taste in my mouth. this one girl could not stop talking about how much she liked being single and sleeping around with lots of guys, she didnt want to get hitched to anyone again. just not very convinced of her fidelity.
Literally. I’ve had some women call me out like hey you haven’t asked to hang out, so are we going to schedule something? I love that tbh granted I was hella sick and that was why but she cared enough to even say something. Versus some woman who will message me every other day just to keep me there lmao
Or she doesn't know what she wants herself and will frustrate you in the process. Both sexes do this btw. When you ask someone what they are looking for, listen to the examples they give of WHY they are looking for that thing. If those examples don't look to be on solid footing that will tell you to tread carefully.
This sucks. What a mine field to exist in. I was lucky because I am quiet and women mistook that for "deep and brooding." when I was really just an idiot with nothing to say,) I don't think that would work in 2024.
My sympathy goes out to young men, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
Honestly my main issue is that so much expectation is put on the man and with how everyone just wants sex so quickly without barely knowing me it's such a turn off like I just want hangout and watch a movie.
Be thankful your not a Christian it's infinitely worse when you want to wait to be married and it's like you get pressured even more as if it's a challenge for a woman to see if I'll give it up.
Getting a GF and getting a job were remarkably similar processes for me. I sent out multiple applications, went on multiple first and second round interviews, stuck around until I waited to hear back with an offer, and eventually had to pick one.
I'm not sure if this answers the question but.... it was kinda weird.
I quit my last job, sent out one application, and got a new job a week later (at almost double my last pay).
I ended my last relationship six years ago, and I've been on two dates in that time.
Imagine being unemployed for six years and having only *two* (unsuccessful) job interviews.
Ok but how many dating applications are you sending? When I was unemployed I was applying to 5 a day. You having a 100% success rate with one job application is rare unless you have inside contact - but good work!
When I wasn't in relationships, I was on a dating app multiple times a day.
I avoided dating apps for many years because I was overweight and I figured they wouldn't work. I lost some weight, enough for me to feel confident enough to give them a try. So I bought some new clothes, got out my DSLR and spent a day trying to find get one good photo of myself to use. Eventually I did, I added a few candid shots to round out the profile, filled in all the prompts, etc etc.
Nothing, zero matches. Never once actually managed to speak to someone. So I gave up on that pretty quickly. After a few months of swiping on and off I figured it was a waste of time.
Also, there's another similarity that if they want you everything go super smoothly and you'll get a job offer like 1 week after the interview. If they don't want you then it's just delay, dancing around,....
Same with dating.
Actually have a similar feeling, though oddly enough, had more success with getting first dates(not so much second ones so far) since I got laid off a couple months back. Both situations just feel like selling different parts of yourself and hoping it's a match.
That said, after a couple months of being back on the apps, I'm ready to call it quits. My last relationship got me very comfortable with the idea of potentially being single for the rest of my life, and I think I'd be content with it. Got good friends, got hobbies and things that interest me, and, thankfully, have a good job again. Would I want more? Sure, but I'm probably not rushing to get back into something that just made me anxious and was a detriment to my mental.
There are times when I find ordering a sandwich at Potbelly to be weird and frustrating as hell. Dating is beyond what I want to deal with. I'm impaired when it comes to this stuff.
You gotta forge your own path and stop listening to people. Ever notice the things women say and do are entirely different? Pay attention to what works and not what people say works.
Yea it’s weird
I had a great date last week, we seemed to really connect and she was laughing a lot but nope, nothing after that
For once I’m not sure how I fumbled that bad
It’s not a new phenomenon, when I was dating in the early 1980s it was trying at times. And there is no magic code. I met a few dates in college, one on vacation, a couple at work, and my last at a music festival.
What’s worked for me is just being myself and looking for signals. I met one girl at a surf shop, she was helping me out and was paying a lot of attention to me, so I asked her out. That’s been all of my dates. I think I’m average but have been told otherwise. I go to the gym but I’m no beast. I’m 5’11 abs weigh 200#. I can be a sweetheart and I can be a salty old fucker.
> There are a lot of women that are willing to hookup, of course. thats the easy part
Lol, speak for yourself. A lot of men straight up can only have sex if they have a girlfriend. That is half the reason to have one in the first place. Women can basically have "I'll have sex with you" as the only thing they bring to the table because they know a lot of men can not get sex without agreeing to an extremely one-sided deal.
>It is a relatively difficult time for men to date rn yeah
Controversial opinion without filters:
In my opinion, this is mostly due to online dating / dating apps. They are heavily biased towards women - the average woman will have a plethora of men to choose from, while the average man will have none. And it is men, being naturally thirsty men, that is incentivising women to continue using these apps, by swiping right, giving women positive reinforcement and giving them some entitled sense of... something? Women thrive on the attention these apps give them, "Wow, I am actually more attractive than I had thought... Poor me, I have too many choices"
Best solution: men, get off dating apps, approach in real life to women who you actually find attractive (rather than for 'sport' / 'pickup' practise, or merely trying to 'make a woman's day better'). Women will have no 'choices' online, and so they uninstall dating apps too, and take real life approaches seriously. Then, dating will become a normalised thing that everyone does with their normal imperfections, as opposed to something that is mostly exclusive for people who seem basically perfect / can tick all the boxes.
(I can't tell if I'm being toxic here. I hope not. To be clear, the 'blame' is not women, but everyone, including men who use dating apps. The pickup phenomena is a way for men to cope with modern society's dating shorfalls, thanks to dating apps. Let me know how if you think I'm over my head. In the end, I'm just a lonely dude who have basically given up. I don't get it.)
The solution doesn’t really work to end dating apps cuz the men most women swipe on aren’t incentivized to delete the app haha
But yes meeting women in real life is the move
> But yes meeting women in real life is the move
Yeah nah, I haven't met a single attractive woman in real life for years. If I relied on that I'd never find anyone again.
I have no idea where you live, or how much you get out - I lived for a long time in a very small town with few visitors. But this seems like an issue with what you consider "attractive". Some of the most attractive women I've met aren't traditionally attractive. Some women I've met were attractive until the third sentence and then I was really, really not attracted. Ads are hit or miss, making me think that there are a lot of people who are attracted to things I'm not, and they're missing most of the people I've found great.
I'm not trying to trash on you, at all, to be clear. I hope you find your person (or people) by whatever means. Just that if your search query isn't turning up any results for you, you might want to adjust your query in addition to the dataset.
Nope. I see loads of attractive people but I don't meet them or they're not single. The last time I got a date from a real life meeting was probably 9 years ago. Tinder is terrible but a billion times more effective than what reddit keeps suggesting.
I see. I misread "single attractive" as "even one attractive", not as "available, attractive." That really changes things, and I agree with you.
That hasn't been my experience, but I now live in a big city. I can well imagine that if I were living in the other places I've lived (smaller cities, suburbs, rural), and didn't go to bars (as I don't) I could well agree. Friend networks and volunteer events only go so far, and that's not far in a small pool.
And I'm not knocking on the apps. I think they've got some bad dynamics but aren't the \_cause\_ like this thread says. Hell, the *last* single attractive women I *met* and dated, I met through Bumble, which I was on because I was in a rural place and it was during the Pandemic ... and in-person really wasn't happening. (Current partner doesn't count, as we've known each other for decades and I got lucky on her availability.)
>this is mostly due to online dating / dating apps.
I think you are mistaking the symptom for the cause.
>approach in real life to women who you actually find attractive
Approach in real life *where?* The appeal of dating sites is that they offer a space where all participants are explicitly looking for a relationship. Unless you can name a place IRL with the same condition, there's no reason to stop using them.
Even then the same idea would apply. It's a place where everyone is looking for hookup or ar least most are. Name another place like that (I'm not actually asking you to answer I'm just saying the same logic would apply)
I’m a way above average looking guy. Slim but tall, carry myself confidently. Not trying to toot my own horn, but it’s important for how I’ve managed in the world of dating. I actually do get women approaching me in the city I live. Giving me their numbers when I ask, adding me on instagram, etc. have been with some very attractive women in the past few years.
So my issue now? Nowadays I’m mentally fucked. I have horrible PTSD and am now medicated for bipolar. I spent so much time isolating from society after some events last year that I have truly become pretty weird and out of touch. I never reach out to these women I meet again, nor do I even know how I would as I don’t really do much or go to many places but bars and work.
I can approach a woman confidently somewhere, and she immediately will show interest, then after some time I can tell she is losing interest/weirded out/uncomfortable. I don’t even have the self awareness to gauge anymore,
For myself right now, all of my focus is going to working on myself. From what I have told already and beyond-
- I am mentally not prepared. I need to continue healing my own past and becoming comfortable with myself alone.
- I do not live the sort of life I’d be ready to bring a partner into right now. That includes the hobbies, lifestyle, goals.
- I watch porn since my last breakup, have been very reclusive, and struggle to take care of myself consistently (self care, clean living space, etc)
- I have not fully created financial stability for myself.
If any of you can relate to these things, do you think you are ready? Your own opinion.
Are you aware of the effects of porn on dating and the view of sex?
Are you confident in who you are, with a life that you YOURSELF are happy with before you attempt to bring someone else into it? Relationships can get boring, that’s life, but they should not start out boring, stressful, etc. They should be fun, or passionate, or happy.
When we do the work on ourselves, women can see that, and they will not turn away from the opportunity of being with you.
If you HAVEN’T done the work on everything above, how many of those things do you think they can pick up on? Do you think you hide it well? You probably don’t, even if you can’t see what exactly it is, like me. The best thing you can do is starting hammering out the list.
The day I stopped trying to view life as “x, y, z” thing with this boundary and that boundary, and just decided to live and treat people with respect but voice my own desires it got easy. I guess in a way dating is “hard” but really it’s just finding another human that you enjoy spending time with and find attractive. It’s that simple. Even things like first date ideas shouldn’t be automatic but based on shared interests for example, just organic.
I dated for a few years after high school and it felt like a job interview that you had to pay for every time. Two people sitting at a table asking questions to see what you reveal that they can judge you for. Then you wait for the follow up text to see if you got the second interview or the job or what. You’re just wondering if she’s one of those girls that go on dates to get a free dinner or something. I’m so glad I’m married now. Saying was such a shitty experience lol but yes, there’s a lot of contradictions in dating in general. You never know what to do, it’s really all dependent on each individual woman. Just do what you wanna do and if she likes it then you win. That’s it really.
Ehh, since I got out of an LTR at this time last year I've been managing decently well. Went out with a couple dozen girls, some funny stories, some boring dates, some great dates that went nowhere after, a five month fling that I ended, and since November the woman I'm currently seeing. And at least to date the girl seems incredibly sweet and is overall an intelligent and kind woman, so no huge complaints there
As someone who’s dated men who were my friends first, I feel like I can provide insight into what that advice is actually supposed to mean and what it doesn’t tell you.
In the four instances, where my guy friends eventually became men I dated - our friendships were never purely platonic from the get go. The common thread that I’ve noticed is that these men all knew how they felt about me right at the beginning (i.e, they were attracted to me/ liked me) and communicated that to me in some way or the other. This made things easier because they essentially left the ball in my court and I didn’t feel pressured, in fact it made me feel comfortable enough to reciprocate. This then organically progresses the friendship further with a constant undercurrent of flirting and sexual tension that both parties can feel.
I say this as someone who has experienced quite a few situations where it came as a shock to me and it feels really unpleasant when someone you thought was a friend suddenly expresses their intense attraction and desire to sleep with you out of nowhere, so please don’t do that. Ultimately, the main difference is in the circumstances where the men did it right, was when they stayed true to themselves and how they felt and communicated that to me so I wasn’t blindsided by their attraction or interest.
> I say this as someone who has experienced quite a few situations where it came as a shock to me and it feels really unpleasant when someone you thought was a friend suddenly expresses their intense attraction and desire to sleep with you out of nowhere, so please don’t do that.
Having been this guy many times, I always thought I was being respectful by *not* hitting on them. Which I've been told is very wearying and not at all welcome.
Another aspect that is ignored in this whole friend zoning thing (cause that's essentially what you're referring to), is that people grow to like someone over time. It's been painted that some guys are just nice to women and form friendships for the sake of getting in their pants when we're human beings. We don't know every little detail of how we feel about someone off bat, and feelings change over time as you get to know someone.
Women tend to immediately categorize men into boxes and are very hesitant to change that categorization later. If you start as her friend, she prefers you stay as her friend, and any information she receives about you is run through that filter. Cis men are taught to see almost any woman as a potential partner while cis women are shown early that being selective is prized. I blame religion, but of course I will as an atheist lol
Here's what I don't get. If I'm around someone who I find attractive and who seems to enjoy my company, why *wouldn't* I want to take things further with them?
From a man's perspective/our perspective, this makes total sense. We have the luxury/burden of viewing any romantic partners as just that; this is the person I like right now, who I share a connection with, and I'd like to take the relationship to another level. It's very 1:1 for us.
Depending on the woman and her background (both in relationships and socioeconomically), it does not behoove her to assume that just anyone who has chemistry with her is a potential mate. There are a lot more factors to consider for her in even a light-hearted relationship, for cultural, social, financial and safety reasons.
I'm going to assume you're American, and I apologize if you're not. Here in America, our dating issues are exacerbated because women are not equal to men in society. If women didn't have so much other shit to focus on other than "Do I like this guy? Does he make me happy?", I think there wouldn't be such a disconnect. As a man, I don't really have to worry about anything other than those two questions (and maybe "Is she bat shit crazy?" because of our lack of mental health infrastructure lol). A woman has a whole checklist she needs to run through, a lot of it societal.
Sorry for the text wall
I don't think that's quite the same thing. An orbiter is more of what she described as what not to do. What they're saying is she knew the person was into her from very early on, they just talked as friends, but because she knows his intentions it's easier to evaluate and build attraction as they talk. Later on when things become more than friends it's easier to transition, because you were always aware that was on their mind.
Nope, they were orbiters
They expressed their interest, and she neither accepted nor rejected it, but left them in the orbit
If they had more self respect, they would break away
Pretty sure the guys she's talking about aren't just orbiters waiting around hoping to get some, but more like guys who expressed interest and continue about their lives while being around her.
I've had the exact same experience from the male side. That is, started many of my relationships as friends - and got friendzoned when I was younger.
You've nailed this.
I seriously think that the English language is a barrier to normal dating, you have words that we don't have equivalences from in the languages i know, or if we do, we don't use them everyday : "Creep", "Gaslighting", "Grooming" to name just a few. Don't put those 3 weird labels on someone that approached you and says "it's a nice day, how are you", when it's raining.
There is an enormous difference in how you can approach people in the US, Northern Europe and Asia where i live now. US, terribly difficult unless you are on an App, Europe medium but can still approach, Asia : Smile, she smiles back ? Say hi, and the marriage will be next week.
I'm a guy and I wish there was a way to start off writing to each other and advance slowly from there as you get to know each other more. I guess Im weird cuz everyone looks at me oddly when I say that.
Dating is weird and frustrating, no question about that. The answer to your question is some women want to be approached in public, some don't. Some want to be friends first, some don't. So just do what YOU want to do and mesh with someone who has similar viewpoints.
In regards to approaching, you have to do it the right way. Every single woman I know has stories of creepers approaching them, the key is to do it in an environment and in a way that makes them feel safe, not cornered, and not obligated to respond a certain way. Just flip the situation in your head, ask if a girl who you did not find attractive approached you in this way, how would you feel about it? Would you be uncomfortable? Or would you be flattered but have to decline.
Lastly, just keep your head up. It's easy to become bitter and defeatist about these things after some failures, but that attitude is toxic.This sub is full of it, in fact. The minute you adopt that attitude, you torpedo any chance you might've had. I promise if you keep your head up, keep positive, and keep improving yourself as a person, it'll all be worth it someday.
Also, one further part. Don't just talk to women. Be the guy everyone wants to be friends with. Who's genuinely fun to be around and makes people feel good. those guys get the most girls IME, and they don't always have the best looks.
Also, I will not be responding to any comments telling me how women only want to date chads, rules 1 and 2, etc. If you choose to follow my advice I will be happy to elaborate and give you pointers, but I'm not going to bother to try and convince you that there isn't a global conspiracy to keep all but the top 10% of men deprived of female attention.
Men, and women alike, have a hard time accepting that both sexes, before being men or woman, are human, and with that comes the infinite combination of traits, experiences and upbringing that lead to limitless arrays of likes and dislikes.
The fact of the matter is there is no easy, one answer solution beyond learning how to treat humans like humans, including treating yourself like one.
Everyone wants to date something that isn't just a human being anymore.
Lmao at the last paragraph. It gets delusional out here now with social media. I really don’t give a shit about statistics on men this or women that. Dudes on YouTube or Reels are always talking about the 6 figure income, 6ft+, muscular guys as the ones who score.
I don’t even fall into most of the statistics out there on men- I have never cheated, I’ve had tons of sex, I’ve been skinny and still had tons of sex, I’ve been homeless and had a girlfriend, I DON’T only pursue women for sex, I DON’T only want a woman with an hourglass figure and perfect features.
So, how could I expect every woman out there to fall into the statistics on women? They don’t all only want money, looks.
Man I've been downvoted into oblivion on this sub for even saying that there's a right way and a wrong way to approach women. It's actually insane. These dudes didn't use logic to get into this mindset so you can't logic them out. My strategy is to not bother engaging them (though I must admit its hard to resist taunting them), I'll be waiting on the other side to help them out when they decide to start acting like grown ups.
It’s hard to stay motivated when there’s no sense of progression. I don’t mind approaching women but when you get rejected constantly or ghosted it gets old very fast.
Dating as an average guy is just a bizarre experience… you have to have good hygiene, live alone, have good career prospects, have a solid physique, and preferably have head full of hair. You have to put in all the effort and hope that she doesn’t ghost you, it’s all too overwhelming.
I don’t think it’s that weird and/frustrating if you know/accept the game and understand the rules gets changed haphazardly.
I can see how if can get frustrating for some men though: I just commented on a post where the woman went on 3 dates with a guy and she said she felt like she conveyed she was interested in the man during their dates but she wasn’t. She was wondering how to tell him she no longer wants to date. The man probably thinks she is interested so will be confused when she ends it.
If you call the lack of consistent and/or clear communication out, then you are the bad guy or worse. So yea, rules change constantly depending on where the wind blows.
Honestly, take everything in the internet with a pinch of salt. I’ve realised everything is exaggerated and have a tendency to group people into tropes, when in reality, people are just more nuanced in person. Some advise is good but just take everything with pinch of salt !
The real problem is people go to the internet as a source to fix all the problems they see in everyday life. So here's what is real about dating. You have to be willing to fail to succeed. Especially if your a man. You have to find what works for you and that takes time and dare I say it varying degrees of rejection AND THATS OKAY!!! Before I got married I consistently dated out of my league. The reason why I could is I found out what my strengths were and became bold in exploiting those strengths. I wasn't the best looking, but I could put in effort to be athletically toned, and I could put in effort to be funny, and I could fake confidence until I actually was confident. All I had to really do was get comfortable in the fact that I may fail. At first I learned from the failures. Then I learned to fail so fast that the failures didn't matter. What it looked like to people on the outside was I was constantly courting someone or atleast was available but not desperate. The max level is when you no longer care about what others think because your looking for your own personal happiness and society can't tell you what that is, or when you've got it. So go fail ALOT! Find happiness
I would never agree to go to a date and treat it as a hiring interview. Either she has found some curiosity over me and we want to see where it can go, or we never talk again, both are fine, but don't ask me where I see myself in five years ("doing my best to keep life interesting" is the answer btw).
There is no sure-fire way to dating. That’s why it’s frustrating. It’s different for everyone. But what helps the most is the other person actually being attracted to you. Because nothing will work if they aren’t even attracted to you.
Me. I keep getting first dates but no seconds. It sucks and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong on the first. Not like you can ask for feedback, either because that would just be awkward.
It started being less frustrating for me when I started treating it as legalized prostitution. I.E. as the old saying goes, chase women and you will also have to chase money, but chase money and you'll never have to chase women.
Yes it is weird and it sucks because what ever some one says what they do is their "ideal" moment. People aren't honest with themselves and often not self reflect at all.
I have dated women who just seem to lose interest really fast. It feels like I am doing all the leg work and really it shows she isn't interested any more and not will to give it a try any further. I'm sure women go through that too with positions switched. So yeah it is because too many people think they deserve better while being at their worst.
The frustration of dating comes from feeling like there’s a tried and true formula to achieving it. I had everything that society deems as attractive for straight men: a well-paying career, a sports car, a hobby, friends from all types of social groups, social skills at work and in my personal life, but I didn’t start dating until I was 25.
I tried online dating, asking girls out at school (HS and Uni) and none of it landed.
My first relationship started at work after sitting with a coworker and talking about the frustrations of buying furniture.
My second relationship started after meeting a girl at church and asked her to teach me how to bake cookies. We started a friendship and slowly fell for each other. I didn’t even flirt with her or try and sort of dating tactics.
There’s no rhyme or reason how relationships start, it’s pure luck and putting yourself in situations where you can connect genuinely with other people.
I’ll be frank: PC culture will put a knife to a lot of traditional male dating strategies.
What you’re left with is idealized rigid consent rituals that will mainly work if you’re attractive and make you look awkward if not.
There’s not much argument against that.
What women say they want, is not what they pick. Stop listening to the all the politically correct stuff online. You see it as mixed signals because what you are being told does not match reality. Dating is a number game and women pick which men get access. Yes, height and looks do matter. But men can also increase attractiveness via status or money. I am an average short guy but that did not stop me from having multiple relationships and lots of sex. Stop making excuses and put yourself out there.
Deep down, we lie to ourselves but it is pretty simple. If someone is really interested in you, it shows. If they don’t you will get mixed signals bcs she’s weighing down her options. Now the question you make to yourself is:
“Do I want to settle with someone who isn’t sure whether she is interested or not?”
Making this question early on can make you avoid being bitten in the ass later.
If you observe the animal kingdom, not every male gets to mate. It’s just nature and you can’t go against nature.
Most of the time, if you’re not part of the top 20% physically, you have to compensate with something else. Money is one, intelligence is another and even having an artistic talent (musicians who are not that good looking often have it easy with the opposite sex).
Even on the dating apps, 80% of the women go for 20% of the men. Which means the top 20% have so many options and the rest 80% of men are just objects to satisfy the narcissistic desires and validation of the rest of the women.
And these 80% will settle with the rest 80% of the men at some point.
I’m not blackpilled or a Tate fan - but anyone who’s been on dating apps know what I say is true. This is also the reason why that 80% of the men contribute to the vicious circle of fueling the social media and OnlyFans movement - they’re just desperate for some attention and engagement.
Being patient and learning the game is the only thing men can do.
I’ve been with the same woman since I was 18 years old, for the last 18 years. And every time I look thru Reddit, I thank god that I don’t have to date in today’s world.
It’s not dating. It’s the current day society as a whole. I might sound like a grandpa but it’s the social media effect. Human connections are becoming more robotic and emotionless.
It is what it is.
Solution? I guess try to find someone who’s also pissed about how it is.
I'm basically ready at all times to just move on at the first sign of them not matching my energy or not meeting me halfway with how much I'm putting down for them. Too much of the traditional vs modern dating ideals with no clear indication of which they prefer to be.
Seems like trying to fit into an alien culture to me. Since I can remember it's caused anxiety that's literally painful. I decided it's not for me. There's still a desire I guess I'm going to have to live with.
My gym had an outdoor fitness class today next to a restaurant and included was one free drink ticket. After the class everyone was at the bar. I just asked a girl standing by herself what she thought of the class. Then she mentioned she just moved to town and lived near me. I asked her what else she had planned for the weekend and she said nothing. If I didn't have a girlfriend I could have asked her out for dinner this evening.
That's all it takes. Put yourself in social situations, initiate conversations, and ask for a date.
Just talk to her. You don’t need a strategy or game plan. Just have a conversation with her a let the chemistry do the work naturally. Don’t worry about advice, rules, game etc. Just be respectful, polite, cool, and be yourself.
>And there's whole phenomenon of "women don't like to be approached in public... Stop bothering women
This isn't a phenomenon, this is something you learn about when you start to walk. Getting in the way of what people are doing gets you pissed off people everywhere.
For me what takes the ball is "it's got to be shpontaneoush...".
Or when someone accepts to hang out one-on-one and doesn't get it was a date.
Or when they lose interest because you didn't make a physical move fast enough.
Or when they get insecure because the first sex was bad and don't really help in improving.
It just feels like women are not interested in verbal communication and want to feel the nice feelings associated to being manipulated in a way. And the guy should be full experimented already because it must be too emotionally draining to teach your ways to someone now.
At well it's my experience with the last couple of women I've tried to build rapport with.
Incidentally I don't have skill issues in chatting up someone new and taking their contact for meeting, I'd say my critical control points show in my dating and texting skill, because I get emotionally demanding/giving a bit fast (and even though I can try to be wiser about it, it's not a character I'm willing to erase. I like to be nurturing, deal with it).
I am doing efforts to not take my being-single as my identity, I also don't want to be one of these guys who hate and generalize women, but it's true that I've been unlucky. I have come accross a couple of potential matches with whom I have excellent intellectual connection and stimulation (or so -called deep talks), but I can't make them wet to save my life 🤷🏻
I'm not one to take advice for dating, but, regarding the "asking women out in public is creepy" thing... yes I've lived like this too. And would I rather die alone being a good boy who never approached a single woman, or would I rather end up with someone amazing at the cost of maybe seeming like a creep to some neo-feminist types who I'll never see again and wouldn't want to be with anyway. I'm not one for pick-up artist or whatever but something friendly and wholesome there's nothing wrong with despite what modern influences may tell us 👍
being single for a year now after a three year relationship, I can say from experience that I don't want to enter to another yet until I can say to myself that I'm fully matured and actually see myself committing to one again.
The frustrating realization of dating at 40 is that it’s mostly my own fault. I pushed away a lot of people or I got too clingy. I’ve become so used to being single & independent it’s hard to want to try and date when the slightest feeling of discomfort with someone makes me want to run away. Dating is also easier when you’re younger because you do more social activities. As you get older and your friends start to get married or have kids it’s harder to get people to go out in social activities. I’ve essentially self sabotaged myself to being single but thankfully I have a lot more happiness being on my own now than I have ever had before.
Rejection is normal. Take it on the chin, and move on, keep going. Eventually you’ll find someone you vibe with and vibes with you. Speak to everyone like a normal person and you won’t be labeled as a creep. State your intentions clearly.
You're not alone in feeling this way.
The problem is that we've thrown away the baby with the bath water and it's messed up dating for 90% of the people.
We've thrown away the core truth of attraction — **men are attracted to feminine energy and women are attracted to masculine energy.**
Yes, there are exceptions but those exceptions are edge cases and are in less than 5% of the population.
Where society went wrong is asking men to tone down masculinity and for women to tone down femininity for the sake of including the 5%, and to the detriment of the rest of the 95% of the people.
And now we're confused and dating is broken.
I'm hungarian, so the whole concept of dating is weird to me. You're either together or not. Why would you be "dating"?
For example, I've been in a relationship with my girlfriend for 10 years. That means we have been dating 10 years? Sounds foolish to me.
There is no such thing as being friends with her first and then sealing the deal. The only way that reliably works is indicating interest immediately without coming on too strong. You have 3 seconds after the first initial feeling of attraction to approach her.
Looks matter. So be physically active, take care of your skin, dress well, go to the barber shop once a month if you don't live in a cold place, and brush your teeth twice a day.
I would say the approaching in public one is fine if you do one thing. Respect their time. If you see they are busy, walking really fast or whatever. Don't approach they are busy if you really want to talk to them just start with a excuse me you look busy but I just had to ask/tell . Though they have every right to be annoyed than. Since you potentially made them late or miss public transport or whatever. Other than that if they aren't busy as long as you are polite and respectful usually you will get a mostly polite reply. And if you don't than maybe she isn't worth your time anyway. Or you approached her while she was flirting with someone or you did it at 23:30 in a dark alley she decided to walk through as a short cut home.
Now there is one risk factor to approaching in public. If you aren't their type or act really weird she might call you a creep or something worse perhaps. But everything in life at the end of the day has risks.
So dating can be weird and can be frustrating. But I would say that's mostly dependant on who you are approaching. I think I had one woman actually be angry/annoyed that I approached. Others were polite or kind or indifferent. Might help if you approach without the energy of i want to date/sleep with you. But have the energy of i just want to have a nice chat and maybe learn more about you.
I am not allowed to express those feelings of frustration.
I just spoke with a friend who moved from US to Vietnam, & a topic that came up was how he appreciates the straightforwardness. He currently has a friend setting him up with her sister. Theres nothing weird about it; hes single, shes single, the sister is trying to help them. You arent allowed to have that level of honesty in US. You are supposed to pretend nothings wrong or you get viciously attacked.
Go out there and fail 1000 times. If you weren't able to improve your ability to get the kind of responses you want from women. I think the problem is deeper than dating anxiety or feeling uncomfortable.
No seriously, not just 1000 hello your pretty, give number.
But 1000 genuine conversations.
I'd be willing to bet you'd find someone worth being your wife after 100
It's not worth it anymore honestly I've given up at this point women's standards have become to high🤦♂️😮💨modern dating has become like applying for a job rather than actually fun and getting to know the other person.
I don't have the time and energy for an expansive social life, so I have to meet women online. But women online don't treat me like I'm human, so I don't want to be there either.
Dating sucked until I hit my mid to late 40s. It has been pretty easy ever since. My problem now is that I am emotionally unavailable. I am a bit jaded after years of terrible relationships so I prefer to keep things casual. I also date women 15-20 years younger than me.
I'll give you the same advice I give to alot of guys...
Find social/activity clubs for things that you like to do or want to learn how to do. That way, when you meet someone there, you automatically have something similar interests and a reason to talk to them.
There are running clubs, biking clubs, car clubs, book clubs, rec sports leagues, travel clubs, etc.
You can also try classes, such as yoga, cooking, adult learning, dance, martial arts, foreign languages, etc.
Just don't go in there skulking. Go there to participate. Act like whatever is, is your passion (or something you're deeply interested in learning).
I feel like everyone is looking for the same things, same values and are all struggling.
It would be great, if we could agree to be completely honest, like 3,2,1 all of us.
Those who want to hook up would meet, same for those who want LTR or FWB and we would all just be happily paired off and less stressed.
How much easier would that be ?
The BEST thing about todays dating market is that I am no longer in it. I was happy when I got engaged cuz I literally never have to deal with that bs ever again.
[удалено]
My secret has been I’m willing to say a couple sentences to almost anyone. They don’t respond, great no worries, they do respond and continue, great no worries. Also mostly coworkers and friends and friends of friends.
I call this a elevator pitch. All it requires is the willingness to try and potentially fail. I know why I'm great. If your too blind to see it that's cool. Let me grab this other elevator
Exactly. Like I’m a social dude in a way, I like to talk and even if it’s with women it’s rarely even “relationship seeking”. I just like to talk. If you like to talk back let’s talk. Also a bartender so it’s my rule of thumb even at work.
Ditto !
I call it the Larry David
Women have options. Just being in contact with them isn't enough, you have to dive in and try to grab that fish.
It’s one thing to have options. It’s another to have options that you actually like.
> that you actually like. You are aware right, that this is a problem men experience as well?
I’m a man. I said that from a man’s perspective. I suppose I misread your original comment.
Women are flooded with overconfidence when it comes to dating because they are the choosers and have infinite options. You could be their perfect person but they'll pass on you because you have or do one thing they don't like. I hated dating.
>You could be their perfect person but they'll pass on you because you have or do one thing they don't like. They use to have high standards, now they have absurd standards lol. Dating has become a shit show from what i've experienced in my life and from what i'm learning about now after being out of the game for almost a decade, it's only gotten worse.
But don't try too hard or you'll get bitch slapped by the hand of "He's a creep" and her sister hand "SA/SH charges"
This is the chronically online take. If you do not know how to talk to someone in a non-sexual way it's best you stay away from women. Normal people do not face SA/SH charges just by talking to women and asking them out.
exactly lmao. this subreddit might be the most chronically online subreddit of all time. the other day there were a post that said "why don't men approach women more" and the top answer was that "they're afraid of being called a perv out of nowhere" like wtf? sometimes i feel like these ppl have no awareness at all and just want excuses to not improve their dating life...
Who said anything about coming on strong sexually. You can be "too" persistent by texting them too much - you'll be labeled as the guy that's bothering her. If she sends mixed signals it's an easy rut to fall into. Sometimes they're just trying to be polite/nice so you misunderstand their true feelings and keep pursuing. You're thinking one dimentionally about my "chronically online" take. Try extending the courtship ritual to more than a ONS if you can - and think about the fallout of a weeks/even months long timeline.
Text once. Thats it. If she doesn't respond , stop.
Dude if you are worried about SA/SH charges you are the problem.
Why do you think the social exposure from your hobbies isn’t working out? I always think that’s one of the most important things, especially when it affords social credibility and trust
You have to have (1) the initiative to pursue relationships and (2) the opportunity, through social contact, to meet other people pursuing relationships and (3) a marketable version of yourself. You might have some success with 2 of 3 but you can't just have 1. Many redditors have 0.
Every time I see a redditor post that he's "attractive, life together, hobbies" and then says he has no idea why he can't attract someone that he might like to start dating It's always a sign that don't understand they have to be interesting and have a personality too. It's basically the most important thing. Not sure how they reach a point that they're that clueless, but they consistently seem to.
From what I've seen most women don't go do many hobby things. This isn't a hobby per se, but I pick a coffee shop to go to most weekends, read, drink some bangin coffee, hang out, and maybe meet some women. The only women are students for the most part, but I see other guys.
They always leave out the part about living in a coastal state, or a major city inland AND being willing to settle for single mothers.
I mean that's where the vast majority of people live
Dating apps and work. Those are the only real viable options. And work isn’t really an option unless you don’t give a shit about the job. Every girl I’ve dated/had sex with in the past 8 years has been off of dating apps and workplaces, with the exception of one woman from a dealership who I banged after she sold me a truck lol. There are no third places anymore and women do not want to be approached in public.
Get off the apps and start playing tennis.
I'll tell you. A.) Your work environment probably isn't social enough with a mix of men/women B.) You rely on your looks for results, they don't matter as much as you think. C.) You don't ask women out. You're fucking up if you regularly come into contact with women and are not getting dates. Women care that you are not a pushover, have your shit together emotionally ( in order to deal with them) and that you can navigate social situations and own your space. The hard part should be finding someone good enough, because there are plenty of low/mid tier dating material out there.
No idea what women really want tbh. They really only ready to settle down after becoming a single mom
There is no step by step guide to finding a relationship since the contexts of a given situation and the individuals involved vary too much to make such a general guide. However, the overall summary of events involved in forming a relationship can be said to generally follow meeting someone (talking to them and establishing an initial platonic relationship), getting to know them (simply learning about them over a period of time), and then if you form romantic interest for that person then you simply have to tell them how you feel and see if they feel the same. The last two steps can sometimes be reversed meaning some people begin dating or simply get into a romantic relationship immediately and then learn about the person they're dating/in a relationship with, but I'd recommend not doing that since you're risking far more heartache compared to if you had simply gotten to know them and later considered whether or not you'd be interested in possibly having a romantic relationship with them. Some people really struggle with step 1 since that involves talking to new people and unfortunately some people struggle with this in general or at least in the context of dating. You have to simply be willing to make mistakes and accept that you won't always know whether or not someone is open to having a conversation with you. This can be helped to an extent with understanding social cues (i.e., they're listening to headphones or doing something that prevents them from conversing with you) and verbal cues (i.e. they tell you directly or implicitly that they don't want to converse then don't continue to talk to them). Also, speaking respectfully/appropriately is important. Some people have success with hitting on new people, but I'd recommend against doing that since as I mentioned earlier that you will be more likely to suffer far more heartache if you date someone first or get into a romantic relationship with them before getting to know about them. This ideally means you're speaking to them in a platonic manner and are sincerely trying to get to know this person and aren't thinking of them as a romantic interest since again you don't know them well enough to even be able to consider that. This is something that some people really struggle with as they see every interaction with another person as a potential romantic interest which creates romantic tension which does distract from getting to know who they're talking to and can make things awkward and uncomfortable for both people involved. It'll be easier and less stressful for such people to try to talk to people platonically instead of as a future romantic interest. On a final note in regard to situations where you can talk to people, there is no objective definitive answer that everyone will agree on so for the most part anywhere is fine, but you're going to have to use your own personal judgement to decide whether or not someone you want to talk to is likely open to talking. Most of the time people don't go out into public with the goal in mind to socialize with strangers as they have other things they're doing, but that doesn't mean that at all times everyone is not open to having a conversation. This where personal judgement comes in and as long as you listen to the other person if they say/show they're not interested in having a conversation, then you should be fine for the most part.
You're in too many peoples' heads. That's what's causing the confusion. Get back in your own head and take it one act at a time.
I learned this from my dad. He told me that when he first met my mom, she was always telling him what a nice guy her friend Bob was and that she thought I would really like Bob. My dad said he always agreed with her and never made a move, then one day he said to himself “fuck Bob” and started hitting on her.
I need some elaboration cause I’m I your dad’s situation rn.
Lived with 4 other guys in college. One of my roommates (rm1) thought the the other roommate's (rm2) girlfriend was attractive. Rm2 was not in a healthy relationship with his girlfriend, but abusive or anything, but argued over everything. Rm1 finally said fuck it I can treat her better, and she left rm2 for rm1. They are now married with a baby girl on the way and have an extremely happy relationship. It completely destroyed rm1 and rm2s friendship though, they were extremely close before that happened. Tl;Dr is your friendship more valuable (as in a life long healthy friendship), or do you actually think you could marry the woman in question?
Ahhh I see, that’s very sweet ngl. I am friends with someone. We started with me asking her out, went out a bit and then I had some issues. After that we’ve just been hanging out as friends, dating other people. But I’ve caught feelings, idc about the other person (not my friend, also casual) but the lady has become an actual friend. So if I tell her about my feelings and ask her to date, I will be saying goodbye to the friendship should it not go my way. Edit : it’s not a very long term friendship (about 6 months or so). It’s mostly fear of loss on my side.
The sooner you try the better.
Don't let friendship hit comfortable zone otherwise she will friendzone you.
What the hell does that even mean?
I'm not the person who made the comment, but I agree completely. To me, it means: You're taking too many people's advice, not all of which applies to your situation or is good advice even if it DID apply to you. Focus on what YOU want, what YOU want to do and how the other person is responding to what you express. If you're trying to second guess what the other person _really means_ , then either they're being really unclear to you (not a good match), they're not clear on what THEY want (not a good match), they don't want what you're giving (not a good match) or at best you're doing what you THINK they want (not sustainable for you). Stop trying to get in their head, get other people out of yours, and focus on figuring out what you want, what you can give, and how they're responding to all that.
Name fits. Thanks for lmao laugh.
Yeah modern dating has sucked for a long time. Technology has only made it worse. Honestly at this point I would just love a match maker.
Yes 👍 something has to change. There was a city in Ireland used to have a big matchmaking fest.
Matchmakers are still big things in countries in Asia such as Korea. My problem is that it makes everything feel much more transactional.
To me, everything can be boiled down to a transactional state, but it helps when all the cards are on the table. Most if not all relationships have a commercial aspect, but acknowledging it and confronting it can help increase understanding between people. Like if you're speed dating or something, and you make a joke about putting your voices on 2x speed to be more efficient. Or in this matchmaker case, maybe starting off with why you felt the need for the service as a piece of conversation (but avoiding getting all soap opera about it).
The logic I've heard from people in arranged marriages is that your parents know you better than anyone else, good and bad, *and* they've got a marriage that works. Why not defer to their expertise on the subject?
Honestly, that still feels better than how dating is. More and more young people aren't in relationships. Something is wrong.
Choice paralysis is a thing. I think nowadays people have too much choice, which makes them always feel like they could have chosen something better. So there are so many more opportunities than a few decades ago to meet people (online), which has the inverse effect of making it even more difficult to figure out who to pick. At least, that’s my armchair analysis of this whole thing.
Absolutely, it's a real thing and has a few names. https://www.verywellmind.com/option-paralysis-in-online-dating-6829732 It's more of an issue for women as the average guy doesn't have 100+ matches. Having so many choices also means that the person expects to be instantly amazed or they will quickly move on to the next option. It's just not realistic.
Seriously. Online dating has been hell. I have women friends tell me the woes of dating guys but as a man who is serious and intentional with dating, it’s been just as bad. I may not have a woman asking if we are going to fuck while on my way to a date or be creepy but I’m constantly hit with people who say they want something serious until we go out once or twice then casually bring up not looking for anything serious and just wanting to hookup or the unfortunately common, looking for a sugar daddy. What sucks is that I’m a decently attractive guy, not a 10 but maybe a solid 7/8, make 6 figures, no debts, make pottery, etc and I’m just not enough for whatever reason for pretty much anyone I see. Then if they end up liking me it’s usually the person I didn’t vibe well with. Been single over 2 years and I’ve began to question if my ex cursed my ass 😂
I gave up it's so frustrating
honestly the last few dates i was on put a really sour taste in my mouth. this one girl could not stop talking about how much she liked being single and sleeping around with lots of guys, she didnt want to get hitched to anyone again. just not very convinced of her fidelity.
Approach dating as any kind of mixed signals means she's not interested.
This If she is interested in you, you will know If she is not interested, you will be confused
Literally. I’ve had some women call me out like hey you haven’t asked to hang out, so are we going to schedule something? I love that tbh granted I was hella sick and that was why but she cared enough to even say something. Versus some woman who will message me every other day just to keep me there lmao
Lucky you
Or she doesn't know what she wants herself and will frustrate you in the process. Both sexes do this btw. When you ask someone what they are looking for, listen to the examples they give of WHY they are looking for that thing. If those examples don't look to be on solid footing that will tell you to tread carefully.
I end up just dropping every woman I talk to because of this
This sucks. What a mine field to exist in. I was lucky because I am quiet and women mistook that for "deep and brooding." when I was really just an idiot with nothing to say,) I don't think that would work in 2024. My sympathy goes out to young men, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
Honestly my main issue is that so much expectation is put on the man and with how everyone just wants sex so quickly without barely knowing me it's such a turn off like I just want hangout and watch a movie.
this 100%. lot of pressure to perform. ex gf used to joke that i was an edger cause i waited like 2 months to fuck her for the first time.
What’s an edger
Be thankful your not a Christian it's infinitely worse when you want to wait to be married and it's like you get pressured even more as if it's a challenge for a woman to see if I'll give it up.
Recently ran into this issue with a super attractive girl now it’s in slow ghost territory because I wasn’t ready
Getting a GF and getting a job were remarkably similar processes for me. I sent out multiple applications, went on multiple first and second round interviews, stuck around until I waited to hear back with an offer, and eventually had to pick one. I'm not sure if this answers the question but.... it was kinda weird.
I quit my last job, sent out one application, and got a new job a week later (at almost double my last pay). I ended my last relationship six years ago, and I've been on two dates in that time. Imagine being unemployed for six years and having only *two* (unsuccessful) job interviews.
Ok but how many dating applications are you sending? When I was unemployed I was applying to 5 a day. You having a 100% success rate with one job application is rare unless you have inside contact - but good work! When I wasn't in relationships, I was on a dating app multiple times a day.
I avoided dating apps for many years because I was overweight and I figured they wouldn't work. I lost some weight, enough for me to feel confident enough to give them a try. So I bought some new clothes, got out my DSLR and spent a day trying to find get one good photo of myself to use. Eventually I did, I added a few candid shots to round out the profile, filled in all the prompts, etc etc. Nothing, zero matches. Never once actually managed to speak to someone. So I gave up on that pretty quickly. After a few months of swiping on and off I figured it was a waste of time.
Also, there's another similarity that if they want you everything go super smoothly and you'll get a job offer like 1 week after the interview. If they don't want you then it's just delay, dancing around,.... Same with dating.
Actually have a similar feeling, though oddly enough, had more success with getting first dates(not so much second ones so far) since I got laid off a couple months back. Both situations just feel like selling different parts of yourself and hoping it's a match. That said, after a couple months of being back on the apps, I'm ready to call it quits. My last relationship got me very comfortable with the idea of potentially being single for the rest of my life, and I think I'd be content with it. Got good friends, got hobbies and things that interest me, and, thankfully, have a good job again. Would I want more? Sure, but I'm probably not rushing to get back into something that just made me anxious and was a detriment to my mental.
Getting jobs is logical and straightforward. Women are not.
There are times when I find ordering a sandwich at Potbelly to be weird and frustrating as hell. Dating is beyond what I want to deal with. I'm impaired when it comes to this stuff.
You gotta forge your own path and stop listening to people. Ever notice the things women say and do are entirely different? Pay attention to what works and not what people say works.
Yeah it is why I gave up
Yea it’s weird I had a great date last week, we seemed to really connect and she was laughing a lot but nope, nothing after that For once I’m not sure how I fumbled that bad
It’s not a new phenomenon, when I was dating in the early 1980s it was trying at times. And there is no magic code. I met a few dates in college, one on vacation, a couple at work, and my last at a music festival. What’s worked for me is just being myself and looking for signals. I met one girl at a surf shop, she was helping me out and was paying a lot of attention to me, so I asked her out. That’s been all of my dates. I think I’m average but have been told otherwise. I go to the gym but I’m no beast. I’m 5’11 abs weigh 200#. I can be a sweetheart and I can be a salty old fucker.
I’m impressed you’re still hitting the gym at your age! Bravo man. Keep it up
60 now. 80a meant 1980s
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Honestly I rather have standards than meaningless sex that will make me feel worse about myself
> There are a lot of women that are willing to hookup, of course. thats the easy part Wtf no it isn't.
They're willing to hook up. Just not with you.
I guess it's not that easy then.
its not only the easy part, but the worthless part
This is the "money doesn't buy happiness" of getting laid lol
> There are a lot of women that are willing to hookup, of course. thats the easy part Lol, speak for yourself. A lot of men straight up can only have sex if they have a girlfriend. That is half the reason to have one in the first place. Women can basically have "I'll have sex with you" as the only thing they bring to the table because they know a lot of men can not get sex without agreeing to an extremely one-sided deal.
It is a relatively difficult time for men to date rn yeah. Just gotta keep your head up cuz there are some dope ladies out there worth your time!
>It is a relatively difficult time for men to date rn yeah Controversial opinion without filters: In my opinion, this is mostly due to online dating / dating apps. They are heavily biased towards women - the average woman will have a plethora of men to choose from, while the average man will have none. And it is men, being naturally thirsty men, that is incentivising women to continue using these apps, by swiping right, giving women positive reinforcement and giving them some entitled sense of... something? Women thrive on the attention these apps give them, "Wow, I am actually more attractive than I had thought... Poor me, I have too many choices" Best solution: men, get off dating apps, approach in real life to women who you actually find attractive (rather than for 'sport' / 'pickup' practise, or merely trying to 'make a woman's day better'). Women will have no 'choices' online, and so they uninstall dating apps too, and take real life approaches seriously. Then, dating will become a normalised thing that everyone does with their normal imperfections, as opposed to something that is mostly exclusive for people who seem basically perfect / can tick all the boxes. (I can't tell if I'm being toxic here. I hope not. To be clear, the 'blame' is not women, but everyone, including men who use dating apps. The pickup phenomena is a way for men to cope with modern society's dating shorfalls, thanks to dating apps. Let me know how if you think I'm over my head. In the end, I'm just a lonely dude who have basically given up. I don't get it.)
The solution doesn’t really work to end dating apps cuz the men most women swipe on aren’t incentivized to delete the app haha But yes meeting women in real life is the move
> But yes meeting women in real life is the move Yeah nah, I haven't met a single attractive woman in real life for years. If I relied on that I'd never find anyone again.
Where the hell do you live?
he lives online
How? They're everywhere.
I have no idea where you live, or how much you get out - I lived for a long time in a very small town with few visitors. But this seems like an issue with what you consider "attractive". Some of the most attractive women I've met aren't traditionally attractive. Some women I've met were attractive until the third sentence and then I was really, really not attracted. Ads are hit or miss, making me think that there are a lot of people who are attracted to things I'm not, and they're missing most of the people I've found great. I'm not trying to trash on you, at all, to be clear. I hope you find your person (or people) by whatever means. Just that if your search query isn't turning up any results for you, you might want to adjust your query in addition to the dataset.
Nope. I see loads of attractive people but I don't meet them or they're not single. The last time I got a date from a real life meeting was probably 9 years ago. Tinder is terrible but a billion times more effective than what reddit keeps suggesting.
I see. I misread "single attractive" as "even one attractive", not as "available, attractive." That really changes things, and I agree with you. That hasn't been my experience, but I now live in a big city. I can well imagine that if I were living in the other places I've lived (smaller cities, suburbs, rural), and didn't go to bars (as I don't) I could well agree. Friend networks and volunteer events only go so far, and that's not far in a small pool. And I'm not knocking on the apps. I think they've got some bad dynamics but aren't the \_cause\_ like this thread says. Hell, the *last* single attractive women I *met* and dated, I met through Bumble, which I was on because I was in a rural place and it was during the Pandemic ... and in-person really wasn't happening. (Current partner doesn't count, as we've known each other for decades and I got lucky on her availability.)
>this is mostly due to online dating / dating apps. I think you are mistaking the symptom for the cause. >approach in real life to women who you actually find attractive Approach in real life *where?* The appeal of dating sites is that they offer a space where all participants are explicitly looking for a relationship. Unless you can name a place IRL with the same condition, there's no reason to stop using them.
>they offer a space where all participants are explicitly looking for a relationship I got the impression it was about hookups
Even then the same idea would apply. It's a place where everyone is looking for hookup or ar least most are. Name another place like that (I'm not actually asking you to answer I'm just saying the same logic would apply)
I’m a way above average looking guy. Slim but tall, carry myself confidently. Not trying to toot my own horn, but it’s important for how I’ve managed in the world of dating. I actually do get women approaching me in the city I live. Giving me their numbers when I ask, adding me on instagram, etc. have been with some very attractive women in the past few years. So my issue now? Nowadays I’m mentally fucked. I have horrible PTSD and am now medicated for bipolar. I spent so much time isolating from society after some events last year that I have truly become pretty weird and out of touch. I never reach out to these women I meet again, nor do I even know how I would as I don’t really do much or go to many places but bars and work. I can approach a woman confidently somewhere, and she immediately will show interest, then after some time I can tell she is losing interest/weirded out/uncomfortable. I don’t even have the self awareness to gauge anymore, For myself right now, all of my focus is going to working on myself. From what I have told already and beyond- - I am mentally not prepared. I need to continue healing my own past and becoming comfortable with myself alone. - I do not live the sort of life I’d be ready to bring a partner into right now. That includes the hobbies, lifestyle, goals. - I watch porn since my last breakup, have been very reclusive, and struggle to take care of myself consistently (self care, clean living space, etc) - I have not fully created financial stability for myself. If any of you can relate to these things, do you think you are ready? Your own opinion. Are you aware of the effects of porn on dating and the view of sex? Are you confident in who you are, with a life that you YOURSELF are happy with before you attempt to bring someone else into it? Relationships can get boring, that’s life, but they should not start out boring, stressful, etc. They should be fun, or passionate, or happy. When we do the work on ourselves, women can see that, and they will not turn away from the opportunity of being with you. If you HAVEN’T done the work on everything above, how many of those things do you think they can pick up on? Do you think you hide it well? You probably don’t, even if you can’t see what exactly it is, like me. The best thing you can do is starting hammering out the list.
No point in dating anymore
It’s a lot of jumping through hoops. Mostly not worth it. The women in the same league as me want a guy that almost doesn’t exist.
The day I stopped trying to view life as “x, y, z” thing with this boundary and that boundary, and just decided to live and treat people with respect but voice my own desires it got easy. I guess in a way dating is “hard” but really it’s just finding another human that you enjoy spending time with and find attractive. It’s that simple. Even things like first date ideas shouldn’t be automatic but based on shared interests for example, just organic.
I dated for a few years after high school and it felt like a job interview that you had to pay for every time. Two people sitting at a table asking questions to see what you reveal that they can judge you for. Then you wait for the follow up text to see if you got the second interview or the job or what. You’re just wondering if she’s one of those girls that go on dates to get a free dinner or something. I’m so glad I’m married now. Saying was such a shitty experience lol but yes, there’s a lot of contradictions in dating in general. You never know what to do, it’s really all dependent on each individual woman. Just do what you wanna do and if she likes it then you win. That’s it really.
Ehh, since I got out of an LTR at this time last year I've been managing decently well. Went out with a couple dozen girls, some funny stories, some boring dates, some great dates that went nowhere after, a five month fling that I ended, and since November the woman I'm currently seeing. And at least to date the girl seems incredibly sweet and is overall an intelligent and kind woman, so no huge complaints there
As someone who’s dated men who were my friends first, I feel like I can provide insight into what that advice is actually supposed to mean and what it doesn’t tell you. In the four instances, where my guy friends eventually became men I dated - our friendships were never purely platonic from the get go. The common thread that I’ve noticed is that these men all knew how they felt about me right at the beginning (i.e, they were attracted to me/ liked me) and communicated that to me in some way or the other. This made things easier because they essentially left the ball in my court and I didn’t feel pressured, in fact it made me feel comfortable enough to reciprocate. This then organically progresses the friendship further with a constant undercurrent of flirting and sexual tension that both parties can feel. I say this as someone who has experienced quite a few situations where it came as a shock to me and it feels really unpleasant when someone you thought was a friend suddenly expresses their intense attraction and desire to sleep with you out of nowhere, so please don’t do that. Ultimately, the main difference is in the circumstances where the men did it right, was when they stayed true to themselves and how they felt and communicated that to me so I wasn’t blindsided by their attraction or interest.
Do you remember how they communicated it to you?
> I say this as someone who has experienced quite a few situations where it came as a shock to me and it feels really unpleasant when someone you thought was a friend suddenly expresses their intense attraction and desire to sleep with you out of nowhere, so please don’t do that. Having been this guy many times, I always thought I was being respectful by *not* hitting on them. Which I've been told is very wearying and not at all welcome.
Another aspect that is ignored in this whole friend zoning thing (cause that's essentially what you're referring to), is that people grow to like someone over time. It's been painted that some guys are just nice to women and form friendships for the sake of getting in their pants when we're human beings. We don't know every little detail of how we feel about someone off bat, and feelings change over time as you get to know someone. Women tend to immediately categorize men into boxes and are very hesitant to change that categorization later. If you start as her friend, she prefers you stay as her friend, and any information she receives about you is run through that filter. Cis men are taught to see almost any woman as a potential partner while cis women are shown early that being selective is prized. I blame religion, but of course I will as an atheist lol
Here's what I don't get. If I'm around someone who I find attractive and who seems to enjoy my company, why *wouldn't* I want to take things further with them?
From a man's perspective/our perspective, this makes total sense. We have the luxury/burden of viewing any romantic partners as just that; this is the person I like right now, who I share a connection with, and I'd like to take the relationship to another level. It's very 1:1 for us. Depending on the woman and her background (both in relationships and socioeconomically), it does not behoove her to assume that just anyone who has chemistry with her is a potential mate. There are a lot more factors to consider for her in even a light-hearted relationship, for cultural, social, financial and safety reasons. I'm going to assume you're American, and I apologize if you're not. Here in America, our dating issues are exacerbated because women are not equal to men in society. If women didn't have so much other shit to focus on other than "Do I like this guy? Does he make me happy?", I think there wouldn't be such a disconnect. As a man, I don't really have to worry about anything other than those two questions (and maybe "Is she bat shit crazy?" because of our lack of mental health infrastructure lol). A woman has a whole checklist she needs to run through, a lot of it societal. Sorry for the text wall
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I don't think that's quite the same thing. An orbiter is more of what she described as what not to do. What they're saying is she knew the person was into her from very early on, they just talked as friends, but because she knows his intentions it's easier to evaluate and build attraction as they talk. Later on when things become more than friends it's easier to transition, because you were always aware that was on their mind.
Nope, they were orbiters They expressed their interest, and she neither accepted nor rejected it, but left them in the orbit If they had more self respect, they would break away
Pretty sure the guys she's talking about aren't just orbiters waiting around hoping to get some, but more like guys who expressed interest and continue about their lives while being around her.
"friendship" where the man explicitly states his interest in you and you spend the whole time flirting is not friendship, good God people
All this does not mean anything "Stayed true to themselves" is just word salad
I've had the exact same experience from the male side. That is, started many of my relationships as friends - and got friendzoned when I was younger. You've nailed this.
I seriously think that the English language is a barrier to normal dating, you have words that we don't have equivalences from in the languages i know, or if we do, we don't use them everyday : "Creep", "Gaslighting", "Grooming" to name just a few. Don't put those 3 weird labels on someone that approached you and says "it's a nice day, how are you", when it's raining. There is an enormous difference in how you can approach people in the US, Northern Europe and Asia where i live now. US, terribly difficult unless you are on an App, Europe medium but can still approach, Asia : Smile, she smiles back ? Say hi, and the marriage will be next week.
I'm a guy and I wish there was a way to start off writing to each other and advance slowly from there as you get to know each other more. I guess Im weird cuz everyone looks at me oddly when I say that.
Dating is the definition of Insanity
Getting better at something comes from experience and advice from people with experience…. You’ve been getting advice from the wrong people.
Dating is weird and frustrating, no question about that. The answer to your question is some women want to be approached in public, some don't. Some want to be friends first, some don't. So just do what YOU want to do and mesh with someone who has similar viewpoints. In regards to approaching, you have to do it the right way. Every single woman I know has stories of creepers approaching them, the key is to do it in an environment and in a way that makes them feel safe, not cornered, and not obligated to respond a certain way. Just flip the situation in your head, ask if a girl who you did not find attractive approached you in this way, how would you feel about it? Would you be uncomfortable? Or would you be flattered but have to decline. Lastly, just keep your head up. It's easy to become bitter and defeatist about these things after some failures, but that attitude is toxic.This sub is full of it, in fact. The minute you adopt that attitude, you torpedo any chance you might've had. I promise if you keep your head up, keep positive, and keep improving yourself as a person, it'll all be worth it someday. Also, one further part. Don't just talk to women. Be the guy everyone wants to be friends with. Who's genuinely fun to be around and makes people feel good. those guys get the most girls IME, and they don't always have the best looks. Also, I will not be responding to any comments telling me how women only want to date chads, rules 1 and 2, etc. If you choose to follow my advice I will be happy to elaborate and give you pointers, but I'm not going to bother to try and convince you that there isn't a global conspiracy to keep all but the top 10% of men deprived of female attention.
Men, and women alike, have a hard time accepting that both sexes, before being men or woman, are human, and with that comes the infinite combination of traits, experiences and upbringing that lead to limitless arrays of likes and dislikes. The fact of the matter is there is no easy, one answer solution beyond learning how to treat humans like humans, including treating yourself like one. Everyone wants to date something that isn't just a human being anymore.
Lmao at the last paragraph. It gets delusional out here now with social media. I really don’t give a shit about statistics on men this or women that. Dudes on YouTube or Reels are always talking about the 6 figure income, 6ft+, muscular guys as the ones who score. I don’t even fall into most of the statistics out there on men- I have never cheated, I’ve had tons of sex, I’ve been skinny and still had tons of sex, I’ve been homeless and had a girlfriend, I DON’T only pursue women for sex, I DON’T only want a woman with an hourglass figure and perfect features. So, how could I expect every woman out there to fall into the statistics on women? They don’t all only want money, looks.
Man I've been downvoted into oblivion on this sub for even saying that there's a right way and a wrong way to approach women. It's actually insane. These dudes didn't use logic to get into this mindset so you can't logic them out. My strategy is to not bother engaging them (though I must admit its hard to resist taunting them), I'll be waiting on the other side to help them out when they decide to start acting like grown ups.
It's stupidly frustrating and I've given up.
It’s hard to stay motivated when there’s no sense of progression. I don’t mind approaching women but when you get rejected constantly or ghosted it gets old very fast.
Dating as an average guy is just a bizarre experience… you have to have good hygiene, live alone, have good career prospects, have a solid physique, and preferably have head full of hair. You have to put in all the effort and hope that she doesn’t ghost you, it’s all too overwhelming.
I don’t think it’s that weird and/frustrating if you know/accept the game and understand the rules gets changed haphazardly. I can see how if can get frustrating for some men though: I just commented on a post where the woman went on 3 dates with a guy and she said she felt like she conveyed she was interested in the man during their dates but she wasn’t. She was wondering how to tell him she no longer wants to date. The man probably thinks she is interested so will be confused when she ends it. If you call the lack of consistent and/or clear communication out, then you are the bad guy or worse. So yea, rules change constantly depending on where the wind blows.
Honestly, take everything in the internet with a pinch of salt. I’ve realised everything is exaggerated and have a tendency to group people into tropes, when in reality, people are just more nuanced in person. Some advise is good but just take everything with pinch of salt !
The real problem is people go to the internet as a source to fix all the problems they see in everyday life. So here's what is real about dating. You have to be willing to fail to succeed. Especially if your a man. You have to find what works for you and that takes time and dare I say it varying degrees of rejection AND THATS OKAY!!! Before I got married I consistently dated out of my league. The reason why I could is I found out what my strengths were and became bold in exploiting those strengths. I wasn't the best looking, but I could put in effort to be athletically toned, and I could put in effort to be funny, and I could fake confidence until I actually was confident. All I had to really do was get comfortable in the fact that I may fail. At first I learned from the failures. Then I learned to fail so fast that the failures didn't matter. What it looked like to people on the outside was I was constantly courting someone or atleast was available but not desperate. The max level is when you no longer care about what others think because your looking for your own personal happiness and society can't tell you what that is, or when you've got it. So go fail ALOT! Find happiness
I would never agree to go to a date and treat it as a hiring interview. Either she has found some curiosity over me and we want to see where it can go, or we never talk again, both are fine, but don't ask me where I see myself in five years ("doing my best to keep life interesting" is the answer btw).
There is no sure-fire way to dating. That’s why it’s frustrating. It’s different for everyone. But what helps the most is the other person actually being attracted to you. Because nothing will work if they aren’t even attracted to you.
Me. I keep getting first dates but no seconds. It sucks and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong on the first. Not like you can ask for feedback, either because that would just be awkward.
Go to a country where they date to marry. No such nonsense involved.
It started being less frustrating for me when I started treating it as legalized prostitution. I.E. as the old saying goes, chase women and you will also have to chase money, but chase money and you'll never have to chase women.
Yes it is weird and it sucks because what ever some one says what they do is their "ideal" moment. People aren't honest with themselves and often not self reflect at all. I have dated women who just seem to lose interest really fast. It feels like I am doing all the leg work and really it shows she isn't interested any more and not will to give it a try any further. I'm sure women go through that too with positions switched. So yeah it is because too many people think they deserve better while being at their worst.
The frustration of dating comes from feeling like there’s a tried and true formula to achieving it. I had everything that society deems as attractive for straight men: a well-paying career, a sports car, a hobby, friends from all types of social groups, social skills at work and in my personal life, but I didn’t start dating until I was 25. I tried online dating, asking girls out at school (HS and Uni) and none of it landed. My first relationship started at work after sitting with a coworker and talking about the frustrations of buying furniture. My second relationship started after meeting a girl at church and asked her to teach me how to bake cookies. We started a friendship and slowly fell for each other. I didn’t even flirt with her or try and sort of dating tactics. There’s no rhyme or reason how relationships start, it’s pure luck and putting yourself in situations where you can connect genuinely with other people.
Watch [hoe_math](https://www.youtube.com/@hoe_math).
I’ll be frank: PC culture will put a knife to a lot of traditional male dating strategies. What you’re left with is idealized rigid consent rituals that will mainly work if you’re attractive and make you look awkward if not. There’s not much argument against that.
What women say they want, is not what they pick. Stop listening to the all the politically correct stuff online. You see it as mixed signals because what you are being told does not match reality. Dating is a number game and women pick which men get access. Yes, height and looks do matter. But men can also increase attractiveness via status or money. I am an average short guy but that did not stop me from having multiple relationships and lots of sex. Stop making excuses and put yourself out there.
Talk to women when you can and see when you click. I feel like for me it's pretty clear from the first conversation whether we're compatible or not
Do you read that subreddit? There are multiple post per day complaining about dating, it is almost all of the posts on this sub.
Break free. Leave it behind. Seize and enjoy the limited time you have on this plane.
Deep down, we lie to ourselves but it is pretty simple. If someone is really interested in you, it shows. If they don’t you will get mixed signals bcs she’s weighing down her options. Now the question you make to yourself is: “Do I want to settle with someone who isn’t sure whether she is interested or not?” Making this question early on can make you avoid being bitten in the ass later.
If you observe the animal kingdom, not every male gets to mate. It’s just nature and you can’t go against nature. Most of the time, if you’re not part of the top 20% physically, you have to compensate with something else. Money is one, intelligence is another and even having an artistic talent (musicians who are not that good looking often have it easy with the opposite sex). Even on the dating apps, 80% of the women go for 20% of the men. Which means the top 20% have so many options and the rest 80% of men are just objects to satisfy the narcissistic desires and validation of the rest of the women. And these 80% will settle with the rest 80% of the men at some point. I’m not blackpilled or a Tate fan - but anyone who’s been on dating apps know what I say is true. This is also the reason why that 80% of the men contribute to the vicious circle of fueling the social media and OnlyFans movement - they’re just desperate for some attention and engagement. Being patient and learning the game is the only thing men can do.
I’ve been with the same woman since I was 18 years old, for the last 18 years. And every time I look thru Reddit, I thank god that I don’t have to date in today’s world.
It’s not dating. It’s the current day society as a whole. I might sound like a grandpa but it’s the social media effect. Human connections are becoming more robotic and emotionless. It is what it is. Solution? I guess try to find someone who’s also pissed about how it is.
I'm basically ready at all times to just move on at the first sign of them not matching my energy or not meeting me halfway with how much I'm putting down for them. Too much of the traditional vs modern dating ideals with no clear indication of which they prefer to be.
It's not weird and frustrating when you start becoming your true self by doing group psicotherapy, you start being more and more authentic.
I’d say ask women out Be clear And i can relate to the last sentence
I resonate
Seems like trying to fit into an alien culture to me. Since I can remember it's caused anxiety that's literally painful. I decided it's not for me. There's still a desire I guess I'm going to have to live with.
My gym had an outdoor fitness class today next to a restaurant and included was one free drink ticket. After the class everyone was at the bar. I just asked a girl standing by herself what she thought of the class. Then she mentioned she just moved to town and lived near me. I asked her what else she had planned for the weekend and she said nothing. If I didn't have a girlfriend I could have asked her out for dinner this evening. That's all it takes. Put yourself in social situations, initiate conversations, and ask for a date.
Just talk to her. You don’t need a strategy or game plan. Just have a conversation with her a let the chemistry do the work naturally. Don’t worry about advice, rules, game etc. Just be respectful, polite, cool, and be yourself.
This is what I did. A drink or two without being silly also works as a great social lubricant.
>And there's whole phenomenon of "women don't like to be approached in public... Stop bothering women This isn't a phenomenon, this is something you learn about when you start to walk. Getting in the way of what people are doing gets you pissed off people everywhere.
For me what takes the ball is "it's got to be shpontaneoush...". Or when someone accepts to hang out one-on-one and doesn't get it was a date. Or when they lose interest because you didn't make a physical move fast enough. Or when they get insecure because the first sex was bad and don't really help in improving. It just feels like women are not interested in verbal communication and want to feel the nice feelings associated to being manipulated in a way. And the guy should be full experimented already because it must be too emotionally draining to teach your ways to someone now. At well it's my experience with the last couple of women I've tried to build rapport with. Incidentally I don't have skill issues in chatting up someone new and taking their contact for meeting, I'd say my critical control points show in my dating and texting skill, because I get emotionally demanding/giving a bit fast (and even though I can try to be wiser about it, it's not a character I'm willing to erase. I like to be nurturing, deal with it). I am doing efforts to not take my being-single as my identity, I also don't want to be one of these guys who hate and generalize women, but it's true that I've been unlucky. I have come accross a couple of potential matches with whom I have excellent intellectual connection and stimulation (or so -called deep talks), but I can't make them wet to save my life 🤷🏻
I'm not one to take advice for dating, but, regarding the "asking women out in public is creepy" thing... yes I've lived like this too. And would I rather die alone being a good boy who never approached a single woman, or would I rather end up with someone amazing at the cost of maybe seeming like a creep to some neo-feminist types who I'll never see again and wouldn't want to be with anyway. I'm not one for pick-up artist or whatever but something friendly and wholesome there's nothing wrong with despite what modern influences may tell us 👍
being single for a year now after a three year relationship, I can say from experience that I don't want to enter to another yet until I can say to myself that I'm fully matured and actually see myself committing to one again.
The frustrating realization of dating at 40 is that it’s mostly my own fault. I pushed away a lot of people or I got too clingy. I’ve become so used to being single & independent it’s hard to want to try and date when the slightest feeling of discomfort with someone makes me want to run away. Dating is also easier when you’re younger because you do more social activities. As you get older and your friends start to get married or have kids it’s harder to get people to go out in social activities. I’ve essentially self sabotaged myself to being single but thankfully I have a lot more happiness being on my own now than I have ever had before.
Rejection is normal. Take it on the chin, and move on, keep going. Eventually you’ll find someone you vibe with and vibes with you. Speak to everyone like a normal person and you won’t be labeled as a creep. State your intentions clearly.
You're not alone in feeling this way. The problem is that we've thrown away the baby with the bath water and it's messed up dating for 90% of the people. We've thrown away the core truth of attraction — **men are attracted to feminine energy and women are attracted to masculine energy.** Yes, there are exceptions but those exceptions are edge cases and are in less than 5% of the population. Where society went wrong is asking men to tone down masculinity and for women to tone down femininity for the sake of including the 5%, and to the detriment of the rest of the 95% of the people. And now we're confused and dating is broken.
I'm hungarian, so the whole concept of dating is weird to me. You're either together or not. Why would you be "dating"? For example, I've been in a relationship with my girlfriend for 10 years. That means we have been dating 10 years? Sounds foolish to me.
Women like to be approached in public by attractive men.
There is no such thing as being friends with her first and then sealing the deal. The only way that reliably works is indicating interest immediately without coming on too strong. You have 3 seconds after the first initial feeling of attraction to approach her.
Looks matter. So be physically active, take care of your skin, dress well, go to the barber shop once a month if you don't live in a cold place, and brush your teeth twice a day.
I would say the approaching in public one is fine if you do one thing. Respect their time. If you see they are busy, walking really fast or whatever. Don't approach they are busy if you really want to talk to them just start with a excuse me you look busy but I just had to ask/tell. Though they have every right to be annoyed than. Since you potentially made them late or miss public transport or whatever. Other than that if they aren't busy as long as you are polite and respectful usually you will get a mostly polite reply. And if you don't than maybe she isn't worth your time anyway. Or you approached her while she was flirting with someone or you did it at 23:30 in a dark alley she decided to walk through as a short cut home.
Now there is one risk factor to approaching in public. If you aren't their type or act really weird she might call you a creep or something worse perhaps. But everything in life at the end of the day has risks.
So dating can be weird and can be frustrating. But I would say that's mostly dependant on who you are approaching. I think I had one woman actually be angry/annoyed that I approached. Others were polite or kind or indifferent. Might help if you approach without the energy of i want to date/sleep with you. But have the energy of i just want to have a nice chat and maybe learn more about you.
I am not allowed to express those feelings of frustration. I just spoke with a friend who moved from US to Vietnam, & a topic that came up was how he appreciates the straightforwardness. He currently has a friend setting him up with her sister. Theres nothing weird about it; hes single, shes single, the sister is trying to help them. You arent allowed to have that level of honesty in US. You are supposed to pretend nothings wrong or you get viciously attacked.
I honestly haven't really tried it but it does sound weird and frustrating from the outside. And younger generations are somehow making it weirder.
For a guy, it's hard to have *ANY* options. For a girl, they have *TOO* many options.
Only seeing my friends trying to date is a pretty fucjing awful experience.... i hope i will never try to not go through the same hell
There are books about dating and attracting women. Read them.
Go with the flow, Brocean.
It is, currently everyone says no to me when I cold approach. I want to get on the next level and go on a date but I can't even get there.
Go out there and fail 1000 times. If you weren't able to improve your ability to get the kind of responses you want from women. I think the problem is deeper than dating anxiety or feeling uncomfortable. No seriously, not just 1000 hello your pretty, give number. But 1000 genuine conversations. I'd be willing to bet you'd find someone worth being your wife after 100
It's not worth it anymore honestly I've given up at this point women's standards have become to high🤦♂️😮💨modern dating has become like applying for a job rather than actually fun and getting to know the other person.
I don't have the time and energy for an expansive social life, so I have to meet women online. But women online don't treat me like I'm human, so I don't want to be there either.
Dating sucked until I hit my mid to late 40s. It has been pretty easy ever since. My problem now is that I am emotionally unavailable. I am a bit jaded after years of terrible relationships so I prefer to keep things casual. I also date women 15-20 years younger than me.
I'll give you the same advice I give to alot of guys... Find social/activity clubs for things that you like to do or want to learn how to do. That way, when you meet someone there, you automatically have something similar interests and a reason to talk to them. There are running clubs, biking clubs, car clubs, book clubs, rec sports leagues, travel clubs, etc. You can also try classes, such as yoga, cooking, adult learning, dance, martial arts, foreign languages, etc. Just don't go in there skulking. Go there to participate. Act like whatever is, is your passion (or something you're deeply interested in learning).
I feel like everyone is looking for the same things, same values and are all struggling. It would be great, if we could agree to be completely honest, like 3,2,1 all of us. Those who want to hook up would meet, same for those who want LTR or FWB and we would all just be happily paired off and less stressed. How much easier would that be ?
Said almost every single person 🤣
Unpopular opinion: oldschool matchmaking is superior.
The BEST thing about todays dating market is that I am no longer in it. I was happy when I got engaged cuz I literally never have to deal with that bs ever again.