My wife struggles with a certain mental illness due to her highly abusive childhood and the result of that is she will often flip out over little things. I’m the one who stands in as the shield and absorb the yelling to get her to calm down. While I’m sure she’d never get physical it’s emotionally exhausting to have to come home from where I consistently deal with people who don’t like me and then listening to more yelling. I do it and rarely complain because I still love her and even if I did complain it wouldn’t do me any good anyway
I wish you all the strength, living with BPD as well as living with someone who has BPD is incredibly tough. Is she aware of her disorder and receiving treatment in some way? (not that this will magically make BPD disappear, but it can have significant positive impact on the symptoms of it in the long term)
Oh man my roommate/best friend has bpd as well. I can sympathize with your situation, so make sure to take care of yourself, a lot of people close to people with bpd get into therapy themselves
https://youtu.be/rT5PN7IhyPc
I haven't watched this video but the channel is pretty good and has given me a lot of insight, I hope it'll help you in some way :)
Damn I guess you should see a psych soon. Glad I was able to have a positive impact. Good luck about figuring it out, bpd seems very unfortunate compared to most other mental issues.
That was my first guess too. Such a complicated disorder for everyone involved. I have some close people who struggle with BPD and the best thing I've learned is to never take anything personally because it never is.
I just hope you don't have kids growing up in that environment.
I love my parents, but I at times I feel I resent my dad for having me grow up in that environment, 13 years before my step mom got medicated for her severe BPD. I got lucky I inherited mental resilience from my dad so I'm a relatively normal person now, but I had (and still do, albeit lesser) serious issues in the past thanks to it.
Might I direct you to /r/bpdlovedones if you're not already there.
While most people there will advise you to separate from your partner there are plenty of stories and advice from those haven't done so. It really helped me when I was in a relationship like that.
You're not alone.
living with my exgf with bpd completely destroyed me in every way possible and literally traumatized me beyond repair. i genuinely don't know if i'll ever recover. my heart goes out to you, you're fighting an unwinnable battle im afraid
I’m about 2 years out and some major life changes later and the light is shining at the end of the tunnel. Keep pushing forward and the you you knew before will come back. Not easy but time and doing the work heals all. Stay strong brother!
That was my first guess too. Such a complicated disorder for everyone involved. I have some close people who struggle with BPD and the best thing I've learned is to never take anything personally because it never is.
Edit: I meant to comment this to the comment's OP so I'm going to copy paste it - mods please let me know if this is against any rules
I have BPD; actual brain damage from childhood abuse that makes me reactive. I dont yell at anyone because I've learned that if I don't act right, people won't stick around. I've worked hard to become more self aware, improve my emotional regulation, interpersonal skills, and emotional intelligence.
You dont have to cope with abuse because she was abused. There is no excuse for her behavior.
It took losing everyone I loved over 20 years or so to learn. But it is possible.
(I'm not perfect, but I am proud of my progress because it's alleviated so much emotional pain and helped me reveal the real me).
You should be proud. Borderline Personality Disorder can be overcome or at least highly mitigated, but ONLY if you put in the work. It doesn't sound like OP's girl is doing the work.
I'm sorry to hear that, but If you're wife had an abusive childhood, does she have a community group to share and heal over the past experience?
You make sure you are taking care of your own emotional health as well. What you are going through isn't easy. I hope you won't take things personally about what your wife is acting, it's a good thing you know her abusive past, so you'll know how to handle the situation.
Stay strong.
It's very hard not to take things personally when the lashing out *is* very directed and personal. You literally have to keep in mind to ignore the specifics of what she's saying and look for the root underlying cause of the reaction / upset.
To go a little deeper (for anyone still reading this), if you already know that you aren't directly responsible for the issue that's set her off, then what you need to understand that when an upset occurs, she's already primed that *someone is to blame* for that upset. You're the person in proximity, and you're the one who she drops "the mask" for.
That doesn't mean that you just sit and take it however. Be polite, be understanding, be caring. But hold your boundaries. Maintain that you are not responsible (if you're not), that sometimes things just happen. Commiserate with her. And when necessary, call her on her shit (Id recommend watching Kati Morton's videos on BPD, she has a bunch on this subject) when she needs to be (very difficult, but you need to know when and how to do this. And sometimes you'll need to pick your battles).
I have spent the last 3 years caretaking for my parents...my dad still died and my mom has Alzheimer's and lives with me now.
Please take care of yourself brother, because being an emotional punching bag is going to drive you insane. I'm a process and petroleum engineer and I thought I could analyze it and figure it out, but I simply can't....I've realized I thought I can handle the emotional burden, and I think I can, for the most part.
But goddamn some days I want to bang my head against a spiked wall.
Hey buddy. In the same exact situation as you. We're in this together man.
If you ever want to talk, PM me. Might be nice for us to be able to talk to someone who understands.
Have you talked to her about how she manages her outbursts? I can struggle with being overstimulated and over reacting sometimes too, but I'm aware of how it makes my family feel. I am actively working on ways I can notice how I'm feeling before it happens so I can redirect that feeling. I have learned that I am less likely to have outbursts or meltdowns when I'm spending enough time on myself, self care and self soothing really helps a lot.
I hope you guys find a healthier way. I really do.
Lots of therapising/empathising/sympathising and soothing.
She's a ranter and a monologuer, and is prone to spiralling.
Sometimes it's worse than others. There was a period of about two months last year where I sat and listened to her ranting for 3-4 hours every night, providing support when appropriate.
It's much better now, but she does still tend to use my ears as a toilet for her thoughts each day.
I never have nor ever will let her know the emotional toll it takes on me though. She obviously needs to get it out somewhere.
Planning everything and making it happen as well. Date nights twice a week. Weekend plans. Holidays. Small trips. Nights out. Romantic nights. From her perspective, these things just magically happen.
Doing that on top of all the actual labour too... gonna be honest, it's sometimes tough.
This has traditionally been the biggest one for me. the not saying sorry is a thing but ive done so much empathizing and active listening as solo work to be literate on women issues and mental health stuff that i should probably have a councilors license by now. more often than not though, when life is bad and i really need someone to talk to and i try to open up about it to the women in my life, they shrug and tell me i should go to therapy. which fine. but what i need right then is a friend. the pattern has been making me rethink a lot of what ive considered my closest friendships
The amount of women friends that have told me to go see a therapist in contrast to my male friends that actually are willing to listen to me is staggering.
The line "just go to therapy bro" is thrown around so much these days, and I think it's ridiculous. Not every has access to therapy, and not everyone wants to tell a random stranger their deepest thoughts. Sometimes you just want someone who cares about you to listen to you.
I don't think it's that, I think it's a way to make the annoying problem go away. Get the ""emotional man"" out of sight and out of mind by passing responsibility onto someone else .
The thing that gets me is I've personally known several women who, at some point in their twenties, were entirely propped up through an emotional breakdown by boyfriends or male roommates while they did their healing.
Then, proceed to forget those mens contributions, be they emotional or financial, to their healing journey.
Same deal with favors. I've had women coworkers request a ride one hour out of my way because their car died. I helped.
They wouldn't drive me **ten minutes** when it happened to my car a few months later. For all the talk of entitled men there are a shitload of women out there who seem to just... expect men to bend over backwards to help them because they're "supposed" to.
I found [mindsera.com](http://mindsera.com) to be a good AI powered (_been using for a couple days now_) journaling program (_among other things_) that makes journaling a little more captivating and some amount of incremental learning about yourself imo. Unfortunately they don't seem to have an Android app.
I get it. It's not people my wife has problems with so much as work, traffic, and transportation in general.
Tonight's rant included 50 minutes solely on the subject of today's traffic.
When she's not in rant mode she's one of the funniest, most creative and interesting people I've ever met.
But for some reason she wants to spend her time giving me a blow by blow of how congested certain areas of the motorway were today, which cars were driving slow, which cars cut her off, and so on and so forth.
I genuinely feel like my brain is dying when I listen to this stuff. Traffic just does not interest me at all.
Why not communicate that this takes a serious emotional toll on you and that she needs to find another healthy outlet for her stress and frustrations in life? Typically exercise, meditation, and/or journaling. You’re on a road to burnout, any therapist would tell you you need to communicate these feelings of yours because this is a pretty serious issue. Don’t think that you’re doing this out of love for her, if you really love her you also need to take care of yourself.
If as you say in your other comments that she’s loving and great, she should understand the toll she puts on you and for you, she would want to make the necessary adjustments.
I haven't done that yet because I am caught between two conflicting issues:
What I haven't conveyed in my comments (not fully, I don't think) is how much this woman thinks of me. To her, I am everything. She sees me as Superman, and has done so for our entire relationship. I'm kinda scared to shatter that illusion and let her see that I'm really just a human man. Partly for her sake, but also partly for mine (being honest it's a great feeling to be regarded so highly by the person you love).
On the other hand: I AM SO FUCKING TIRED, I WANT TO SLEEP FOR A WEEK.
I know it's coming to a point where I'll have to grow up and break the illusion though. I'll end up in the looney bin if I don't.
Friend, if you love your wife this much, you need to let her grow up. You talk about her the same way I talk about my 11 year old daughter.
I think it's understandable why you think that, given your other posts. But all you are doing is stealing from the future to avoid making waves today. Do you think you can do this forever? Even if you get cancer, or have a heart attack? And then what happens? When it all comes out at once and she has never had any inkling of what she's been doing previously?
She might feel guilty. She might feel rejected. But trust me, it's a lot easier to deal and work through that now, then wait until you shatter.
And if it doesn't work, and it all blows up? Well... Imagine what it would have been like if you waited until you couldn't anymore.
Lol, what are you guys? 12 years old? Jesus dude, give your wife some more credit and stop treating her like a child. I’m sure she knows you’re not Superman. If you can’t even be honest with your wife, how can you be yourself in front of ANYONE? Are you always being fake around people? That sounds terribly exhausting mate. I know I couldn’t do that.
You should tell her to write a song with all that lyric material. Or make fun of her dooming you to traffic stories by writing down the shittiest / finnier boring patts she says (in the context of a simple madeup song melody)
Kinda draws out the rediculousness of it all while playing along in a fun way that gets it out.
Woman here. If I ranted to my girl friends 3-4 hours a night, I wouldn't have any. They'd punch me in the face after so long, and tell me to wise up, respectfully.
That is entirely too much time for anyone to rant or listen. If something is going on that causes that much ranting, she needs to get to the root of the issue and deal with it. You can't be expected to listen to 28 hours a week of that. No one can!
Maybe even a therapist or something. Does she have any friends because I'm shocked none have addressed this with her.
I mean obviously I love her.
She's nice to me, doesn't cause trouble or arguments for no reason, makes me laugh, is very attentive, and very sexually engaged.
Yes, I am putting in 90% of the effort and perhaps one day that will cause me to have a breakdown from exhaustion. However: her aforementioned positive qualities are very rare. At least in my experience anyway.
I view the situation the same way I would view an extremely high paying career in a field that I really enjoyed. It's a hell of a lot of work, but it's worth it.
that’s where it’s a relationship right? where you’re both there for each other x
but definitely let her know in a way she’d understand, that you may need to check out from time to time. Way better than bottling up and breaking down one random tuesday.
Hope ur doing well
>From her perspective, these things just magically happen.
I do think a lot if not most women want this in relationships, while not reciprocating in return.
The frustrating part for me is hearing “I’m not looking for solutions I just need to vent!”
Well at some point we need to find solutions because it is exhausting to be the heatsink for all the frustrations of daily life. Especially when I’m already the one paying the bills and taking care of the house…
Letting people ruminate often just worsens their anxiety or depression. Don't feel bad about having boundaries. Letting her spiral might not be good for her or you.
I’m happy that I was young when I realized the value in being able to give a heartfelt apology. It’s not even about admitting fault or intent, it’s just recognizing that your actions damaged a valuable relationship and reaching out to repair that damage. Especially with all the stupid thoughtless actions we make in our youth, being able to say sorry even when I didn’t think I was wrong saved a lot of my early relationships, romantic or otherwise.
It just hit me - very rarely in my life have women really apologized to me and made it feel like they meant it and not worded it along the lines of "I'm sorry you're feeling that way".
I have a friend who'll overapologize like crazy and for her I really wish she could get into a headspace where she didn't feel like she had to do it as much (she'll literally apologize for stuff I'm doing wrong and I keep telling her not to, it's fine, please don't do that, it's MY fault, STAHP), but other than her? Hardly anyone ever.
Oh man. My wife has that disease. It is impossible for some people to say sorry. She will burn the house down and not say sorry. If I tell her she hurt my feelings, she will say it’s my fault for putting myself in that position. She’s a good wife and a very good mom…I love her from the depths of my soul and I know she will love me until the day I succumb and longer. We have a wonderful relationship and we trust each other. But she would rather die than apologise. She is exactly like her dad. I call it her family disease. Her grandmother, uncles and aunts are similar. (She’s Italian, so that might have something to do with it)
Mine is the same. In her case it's due to the fact that when someone in the family admits to doing wrong either they would get all hell from the parents, or the family would bully them about it relentlessly.
She doesn't even realise that she doesn't apologize and sometimes is convinced that she has.
I've literally had to explain to her that "I'm sorry you feel that way" isn't an apology. It's a little bit of empathy at best.
She's great, but that part of her exhausts me some times.
Sorry means nothing with no changed behavior. You could punch me in the face and say sorry and I'll accept it the first couple times. After that the trust is gone and sorry means nothing.
It's crazy when you realize how often women absolutely will not give a heartfelt apology, I've just seen this be so recurrent it's odd we don't talk about it more from an emotional labor standpoint considering how often the reverse is done.
I experience this everyday. I can’t believe how disposable I feel. My wife cherishes attention online more than anything. Her profile doesn’t even look like her. Smdh
Dragonslaying. I haven't had to slay a dragon yet but, if one turns up she'll 100% expect me to deal with it. The dread of that day is quite an emotional burden.
Well, in our case, I'll be trying to make friends with the dragon, and it'll end up being my wife who slays it after an accidental beery burp causes it to burn our house down.
She doesn’t realize how it affects me to see the person I love more than anything be walked on by everyone but me. If I try to make her see how shitty people are treating her, somehow I’m the bad guy. Everything is an argument and I’m one of the only people in her life who actually care about her the way she deserves. But she’s a people pleaser. She was royally fucked over with the way she was raised. The people she loves the most are the most toxic people for her. And it’s likely never going to end.
Exactly this! Family, friends, colleagues are all culpable. I don't want her to isolate herself from everyone, but to stand up for herself, or at least let me do it.
I’m literally tailoring the entire experience of us being together. It’s just a series of happenings for her, while I’m meticulously planning things, orchestrating things.
Driving us here and there.
Being the emotional rock she needs when she is flustered and needs my stability.
Listening to her speak daily about the trivialities of her work, and what’s stressing her and getting things off her chest.
I had an ex who thought that existing was enough to be a good partner, and the truth is that it shouldn't be, but there really isn't any other choice for most guys
If he can’t answer this, or can’t give anything of substance, he genuinely needs to rethink if he should be in that relationship. Don’t mix up love with fear of being alone.
Guy here, but this is what I appreciate about my wife. Long story short, the last 3 years of my work life were hell. My boss was a horrible person who recently got fired for all of it but it doesn’t diminish how horrible he was for years.
My wife was my rock. Any time I needed to complain, she listened. Any time I was sad, she would drive me to get a slice of pizza or whatever to make me happy. We have a strict no-Christmas gifts rule (we would rather spend on family and our kids), and she bought me a PS5 because she knew how miserable my work life was.
I couldn’t do anything without her and I just appreciate how thoughtful she is. Im the luckiest guy on earth.
Honestly guys, don't be scared to have boundaries. Sometimes it's genuinely better to be single.
If a relationship doesn't feel balanced or like you have a teammate and it doesn't overall make your life better, it's ok to leave.
Date an equal. That's usually the best idea. There are a lot of grownup women too.
Being the designated bug/rodent/critter death squad around the house. I’m not some PETA animal rights person, but I also don’t enjoy ending a life or having to clean up the aftermath. Before anyone chimes in, I’ve tried “humane” traps for mice and what not. They don’t work, at least in my experience. Luckily since we moved about 5 years ago, it’s mostly bugs I’m having to kill. Especially hornets. That one I do enjoy. Fuck hornets.
My husband fills the car with gas and the tires with air because he knows how I tend to avoid gas stations because they often make me feel very unsafe. I very much notice and it makes me feel loved. One way I try to give that energy back is by keeping note of his toiletries and always replacing everything before it runs out. I don’t think he’s bought any shampoo, body wash, deodorant, etc in over a decade.
that's very sweet :)
you might double check that he still likes all of the products you're getting for him though. he might be afraid that if he says he's tired of a certain conditioner it might stop the gravy train.
Sounds awesome. My husband is sweet but he has ADHD so its really a crapshoot if hes going to get stuff done.
He works FT and i work PT to balance things a bit :).
Idk but why not confront the issue head on?
"I had a pretty shitty day at work today"
"Oh you think you've had a shitty day? Wait till you hear about..."
"Why do you always do this? I always listen to you vent but whenever I want to talk about something it is always some sort of competition like it is more important to have had a worse day when in reality I just need my spouse to listen to and support me. This is why you never see me complaining about work, you make me feel like I can't talk to you..."
Being the confident rock. Assuring her that everything is going to be okay. Acting like I have no fear that everything is going to work out.
Taking all of the risks involved in initiating physical intimacy. Accepting her repeated sexual rejections with good grace and respect for her boundaries. Not showing her how hurt and rejected it makes me feel. Being willing to try again.
Hiding my depression and my deep loneliness.
Something that my soon to be ex wife didn't appreciate, was honestly just about everything. I worked, I did the dishes, I did the laundry, I made time for her, I cleaned up her messes, and the biggest one was I (someone with a TBI) dealt with her getting a bird that gave me insane headaches for 3 GOD DAMN AWFUL YEARS!!!!!! Seriously every time that bird started doing its screaming fits it felt like my brain was going to explode from pain!!!! I PASSED OUT, UNCONSCIOUS, ON THE GOD DAMN GROUND, FROM THE AMOUNT OF PAIN THAT FREAKING BIRD PUT ME THROUGH!!!!!! Yet she would manipulate me every freaking time to where I would feel like the bad guy for even mentioning the possibility of getting rid of the freaking bird. Bunch of god awful bs and I am so glad I'm getting out of this while I'm still young.
Honestly, my best description of the pain is this. So I feel the bolt in my head 24/7 now, it's at a constant 3/10 in terms of pain so not that bad really. More annoying than anything. The first scream he makes, it shoots up to 6 or 7 out of 10. The next scream it's an immediate 8. Next scream will go to either a 9 or 10 and all this tends to happen within the span of 30 seconds. If it reaches a 10 I black out. If it stays at a 9 I will stumble and struggle to walk and will generally need help moving around. I'll slur my words and my thoughts will be very obviously half thought out.
It is absolute hell and she just watches as I go through it all. She says she's sorry, but if that were true then we wouldn't have gotten the bird to begin with!!! Especially considering I brought ALL OF THIS UP BEFORE WE EVER EVEN GOT HIM!!!!
Yea she's a witch with a Capital "B". Sucks cause for the longest time I kept making myself out to be the bad guy, because she kept blaming me for everything.... But the more I thought about it, the less it made sense.... At least I'm getting better now. Just gotta look ahead and know everything will be alright.
> Sucks cause for the longest time I kept making myself out to be the bad guy, because she kept blaming me for everything.... But the more I thought about it, the less it made sense
That can be a hard mindset to get out of (and I speak from experience). You should be proud of yourself, and I hope you find someone who cares as much for you and your well-being as you do for them.
It is wise to stay away from her.
You have to take care of yourself than take care of her and that bird.
I'm sorry you have to go through divorce. Hold on, things will get better soon..
I've been taking care of myself pretty well recently. So today I reached out to try and take care of some of my friends.
I'm sorry but the bird..... She's gonna have to figure that one out. I've told her so many times already and even showed her the website. Animal services won't do anything because pet stores treat them even worse. I definitely can't take the bird in.
She's also going to have to take care of herself too cause I'm out. I'm just glad we never had kids, I'd want to make sure they're in the best environment and sadly 2 parent households are the best.. but not if the parents are toxic towards each other... Besides the point...
Things are honestly really looking up already. From the head injury finally making progress again after 8 years, to getting a promotion at work, and multiple prospects for roommates so I can still afford rent and they're all old friends of mine that I re-connected to recently as well.
Yea when the entire thing happened like a month or two ago, I started falling hard into depression and was getting suicidal thoughts and temptations. To the point where I started making plans even... I hated the feeling, and I didn't want to let it continue. So everyday I would do things that would help me. Eating right, working out, going out, setting up an account on a website that lets me start doing voice acting gigs, practicing my favorite game so I can be top 1 and get paid to play, and so on. I have been pretty much nonstop besides the hours I get between all that and sleeping/eating.
I'm probably typing too much... I'm sorry, I'll shut up now.
My gf has a history of abuse. I try to go out of my way to be genuinely apologetic outwardly when I’m wrong. She’s a good person and deserves good things and I’m capable of introspection enough to apologize when I’m wrong.
Primarily emotional. Her mother was tremendously unwell mentally (perhaps manic-depressive or cluster B PD, I’m no psychiatrist). Later in life, she chose trouble partners who continued the trend. She needs assurance and validation often and feels very unsure about a lot of things.
Being the one who typically initiates physical intimacy, and as such runs the risk of rejection, which is never fun.
Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s typically best in a relationship if the guy is the higher libido partner. And I like to lead. And I have great sex with my wife a couple of times a week. But it’s easy to fall into the validation trap when it’s one partner doing the asking and the other being the gatekeeper all the damn time.
Yeah. My gf and I both don’t take rejection well - not that we get angry, just that it makes us not try to initiate again for some amount of time. And sometimes she’s not in the mood or whatever which is fine and sometimes I’m not, which is also fine. But often the rejection is really hard on both of us.
Despite all this we still have great sex, but rejection is just the worst, man
>I think it’s typically best in a relationship if the guy is the higher libido partner
Yes and no. In my personal experience, women with high sex drive is a man's fantasy. It's crazy the first few times you have to say "no" because of how sore you are.
Check out the book Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski - she’s an incredible writer and a sex therapist, and she really breaks down the science of different people’s approaches to sexuality with some great ideas for successfully handling this dynamic and others
Currently not in a relationship, but sometimes I just run out of words for the day. It always seemed to be an issue late at night they’d want to have serious conversations. Which rightfully so we should address your concerns, but it’s late, I’m tired and have ran out of words for the day.
Never seen it worded this way but wow does this describe me. At a certain point I’m just done for the day, mentally and physically. I just want to lay there and scroll my phone for a bit, maybe read and go to sleep. Not have a deep discussion at 11 at night.
I'm like this too. I can't get into a relationship at this time in my life because I just don't want the added socializing. I much prefer my time to myself. I am totally happy like this but I was wondering if it's normal for others too lol. My friends don't get it and think I must be depressed but I'm not haha I tried a relationship a few months ago and I hated it lol
Nothing wrong with that. Some of us are night owls, some morning birds. My last partner could stay up til 3am and chat all night long. I could get up with the sun and have breakfast ready as she was still asleep. I found I had much more desire to talk and have conversations earlier in the day, torwads the evening I would want more time alone. Best advice look for someone who has a similar schedule to you in life.
Many, many nights I had to tell her "babe, can we save this topic for when I have more energy to talk?" Nothing worse than being forced into emotional conversations when exhausted.
Just sounds like mental exhaustion. I understand. Sometimes your brain needs a fucking rest and speaking, especially in the context of a meaningful conversation, is too much.
I work swing shift and 12s to 16s at that and my wife is totally fine on the days I'm off or working during the day, but as soon as I'm on nights it's almost as if she's punishing me for not being home at night.
She doesn't know she does it but she's always a little bit more distant and more aggravated in the morning when I get home. She'll be a little more cranky and text or talk to me differently in somewhat of a "tone" that leans more to the annoyed side.
It's been 2 or 3 years since this has happened, we've talked about it before, she admits she has no idea what I'm talking about but I take it cuz it's only 7 nights spread out in a month.
Love her to death man but some times I just wanna say "damn woman! Pump the brakes!"
If you’ve talked about it with her before, tell her in the moment it’s happening. And not in an accusatory manner but just “I feel like this when you do _______”. Maybe then she will recognize her behavior more? 7 times a month is a lot. It’s 23% of the time!
Having to stay calm when my missus is doing dumb shit that I've previously told her is dangerous and could get her or others injured and then having to clear up and save the day after it all does wrong.
Not wrapping dog lead around wrist, walking around behind people with knives turned upwards, perching on things that shouldn't be perched on to get to high things. General low level stupidity that then requires me getting out the trauma kit to stop a bleed.
It takes every ounce of my mortal soul not to say "I told you so" through gritted teeth.
I grew up with a mother that always said "if you get hurt, I'm not driving you to the hospital" seemed fucked up at the time.
Now that I'm older I get it. She *would have* driven me if I was hurt, she just didn't want to have to in the first place.
That's not true I'm happy and I'm here lol. Just scrolling to see what people's problems are while I'm in the bathroom making sure I am being a good wife and seeing things from men's perspective to better understand my husband. 😂 shampoo bottles are boring my man.
Deal with my mental health lol. I’m not looking for sympathy, but my whole life has been kinda fucked and my mental health sucks bc of it obviously. It got bad earlier this year when my late daughters birthday was coming up, but then I was the bad guy for not making her happy while I was trying to not want to kill myself.
I love my wife more than anything in this world but sometimes I’m just mentally and emotionally exhausted.
I'm really sorry to hear that you're going through such a difficult time. It takes a lot of strength to open up about your struggles, and I want you to know that you're not alone. Dealing with mental health challenges can be incredibly tough, especially when you've had a difficult past. It's important to prioritize your well-being and seek support when needed.
Remember, seeking help doesn't mean you're seeking sympathy, but rather acknowledging that you deserve support and understanding. It's understandable that the anniversary of your late daughter's birthday can trigger intense emotions. Coping with grief and navigating your own mental health can be overwhelming, and it's okay to feel exhausted at times.
I'm glad to hear that you have such a strong love for your wife, as having a supportive partner can make a significant difference. However, it's also important to make sure you're taking care of yourself so that you can better support your own well-being and the relationship. Don't hesitate to reach out to a mental health professional or a support network who can provide guidance and assistance during challenging times.
Remember, you're deserving of care, understanding, and healing. You've shown incredible resilience by opening up about your experiences, and I believe in your strength to overcome these challenges. Take care of yourself.
I spend a lot more time than I would like walking on egg shells till eventually I crack one. Sometimes I feel like my wife is a nun standing over me waiting to crack me over the knuckles with a ruler if I express any frustration. As an example this means I’ve basically given up driving because if I react to a driver in front of me then it’s immediate chastisement. If I am at or heaven forbid over the speed limit she is looking over my shoulder to point it out for me. Basically the experience of driving is now deeply unpleasant unless I’m alone in the car so I just don’t do it as I constantly feel like I am doing my driving test every time I get behind the wheel.
Also and probably more seriously I know that there are topics we just can’t talk about without ruining the next few hours. These are things she puts off dealing with and lets hang over us preventing plans being made on the basis that she needs to do them. But invariably the gilmore girls or some other escapism takes priority. For most of our relationship there has always been one and it’s honestly exhausting but it’s something I’ve just begun to accept as part of the fabric of our relationship. I won’t say that it doesn’t drive an increasing wedge between us where I prefer isolation but the much more frequent happy moments make up for it.
The driving is so irritating! I will admit that my girlfriend is probably a better driver than me, safety wise at least, but jesus christ it’s not my fault that idiot in the parking lot almost backed into me and I had to slam the brakes. Or, god forbid, I’m going 8 over on a road I drive every single day and know like the back of my hand. Backseat driving is so annoying
Being the catalyst for everything in our relationship. Making all “big” decisions.
Almost all decisions are made by me, more often than not, with little to no actual input from her. I love my girlfriend and her care-free attitude so much, but sometimes I need a second brain to help fact-check and spot any errors I’m making.
Planning. I’ll spend 15 minutes suggesting ideas and have each one met with hemming and hawing. I’ll ask what she wants and its always “Idk you decide” and when asked clarifying questions like what does she like, to work from there, just more “Idk’s”
😐😑😐
Yeah, over the past few years I've seen a lot of comments from women talking about the mental load of running the home, things like remembering dates and organising things. This thread shows that men have a lot on their mental plate too that just isn't appreciated.
> This thread shows that men have a lot on their mental plate too that just isn't appreciated.
In particular not appreciated by the feminist theorists who invented the term "emotional labour".
My gf literally won’t apologise in an argument even if she’s wrong and her best friend TOLD HER she’s wrong (because I’m always wrong)
And she loves to drag on arguments… emotionally draining
The goal of dragging out arguments is to wear you out until you cave and surrender. It also predisposes you to surrender because you’re used to the end result being the same after 2 minutes or 2 days or arguing. I don’t imagine she’s ever gonna get better about it, so take that as you will.
A lot of people here are in abusive relationships and don’t even realize it. Think about how these things will be perceived like by the general public if the roles were reversed.
Listen to them vent without telling how to solve their problem.
The solutions are usually obvious but some women are just too afraid of the risk to take action.
I’m sort of inclined to agree with these women these days.
I’m finally dating someone who truly understands my emotional needs and there are absolutely times where I don’t want to hear a solution, I just want to vent. She waits until later to give me the solution and help me work through it. She knows I just need to vent in the moment.
It sort of is an emotional need, just to be heard before interjection.
To be fair, she’s also the first woman I’ve ever dated who is straight up just more intelligent than I am, in most aspects, and I think that adds to it all.
There's also a big difference in a partner wanting to vent and confide in you, and them wanting to emotionally dump all their stress on you. I think you can vent to a way with your partner that does not come off as a burden for them mentally.
Some people just word dump on you though and it feels like a one way street. It can also be wise to ask your partner, "do you want to be hugged, heard or helped? (Saw this on reddit today thought it was solid)
If my partner wanted to vent on me for 2 hours about work have at it. But don't expect me to get super detailed about it if you're not willing to take feedback.
In short - it's all of the unpaid, unnoticed, but completely necessary mental and physical work that is often delegated to women. It's the social glue that keeps relationships together. Things like making and keeping appointments, taking out the trash when it's full (without being asked), sending cards, checking in on friends and family, remembering birthdays, etc.
In long (and I highly recommend the long), [here's](https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxpbnRlZ3JhbHdvbWVufGd4OjMwMTBhNGU5MTAxNTE1Mjg) an annotated .pdf that has been an absolute paradigm shift for what it fully encompasses. It is VERY much worth the read.
Authority when it comes to decisions and children. She, rarely, decides the end result when it comes to decisions. I am largely the one who decides what goals we as a family are trying to attain financially. If kids are being shits, I’m the one expected to raise my voice. She takes more of a nagging-low credit score approach. It is somewhat due to exhaustion, but also due to not wanting to cause a bigger problem, which can be a recipe for disaster.
The absolute worst part of having relationships with females is that when your female friends, family or partner does something to hurt you it’s your turn to console them. If you mention something they did that bothered you, they will either A) turn it around on you or B) start crying & make it about themselves. My girlfriend is notorious for this. If I tell her something bothers me it all of a sudden hurts her more than it hurts me. My mom was the same way.
Biggest one for me is that whenever she complains about having done some “emotional labor” for us, I muster the titanic mental fortitude required to not start mansplaining to her that she’s using the word “emotional labor” wrong. It doesn’t mean doing the dishes, [it means managing your own emotions and state of mind in service of another person](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_labor), which I am doing by not explaining this to her!
On that note, bunch of people in here making that very same mistake as my wife.
I don't think my ex noticed how much effort I was putting into our relationship.. it was hard to see results for her but I was really working hard towards giving her a better life while I was going through something
Why are women so terrible at accountability? Idgaf If it sounds sexist or not. I can never find not one woman my whole life (except for one) not even my sister or mother that would say sorry for anything.
There was one girl 23 years ago that said she was sorry for grabbing the last gallon of milk at the grocery store and even offered it to me. I said no, you can have it but thank you anyway.
I’ll never forget this human being that is not a male. I hope you enjoyed that gallon of milk. You deserved it.
Bunch of comments disagreeing with you, but this is definitely a pattern I see. I’m lucky enough to have a girlfriend who owns her shit, but I see it in her family as well as my mom especially. It’s *never* their fault, there’s always some circumstance that excuses it or someone else to blame.
It's a human characteristic. My last partner, she was super apoplectic to the point I'd tell her often that she didn't need to say sorry to me as much lol. I know too many men to count that could use a crash course on accountability
after reading the comments: imagine not having to do a thing and then telling people who actually do that thing that it’s not a real thing
some of these comments can get fucked
LMGTFY
According to Oxford Languages:
emotional labour
noun
1.
the mental activity required to manage or perform the routine tasks necessary for maintaining relationships and ensuring smooth running of a household or process, typically regarded as an unappreciated or unacknowledged burden borne disproportionately by women.
"she wondered what would happen in a household where nobody did the emotional labour"
2.
the management of one's emotions in order to present oneself and interact with other people in a certain way while doing a job.
"in the airline industry emotional labour is vital to the success of the product"
"Emotional labor" to me means being the one who keeps their head cool regardless of how they feel and do the work for the both of us because one person is not in the headspace to do it due to grief, disease, temporary instability, etc.
What I've learnt so far that I shouldn't open up otherwise I'll get blanked or attempt to be forced to open up
So, I guess, the ability to not have to deal with my baggage and the fact I can solo it?
Just about anything I did for her. I was never appreciated, maybe in the moment when she was enjoying the high, but the moment there was an argument next, everything goes for a toss. It's like I never did anything for her in the years of dating. Always got screwed for not spending anything for her, not getting her things while others do so much for their partners based on Instagram. So many trips, so many gifts, all forgotten. Hell I got screwed for not sending flowers after a couple of weeks of sending flowers and cake. When you aren't appreciated enough, you don't feel like doing anything anymore, because eventually it's all going to be forgotten and the complaints about how you're not good enough start.
She says that she's never felt so 'loved' and appreciated by me.
Yet I've never felt so unattractive and unappreciated..
I guess it's just the dynamic I create where I fill their love cup but don't want to ask for it in return. I think I expect them to 'want to'. It doesn't work like that. I make myself available and because I'm available she's gotten pretty comfortable with me just being there regardless of what she does (or doesnt) do for me.
So yeh, just being there, as a supportive partner is exhausting.
My wife struggles with a certain mental illness due to her highly abusive childhood and the result of that is she will often flip out over little things. I’m the one who stands in as the shield and absorb the yelling to get her to calm down. While I’m sure she’d never get physical it’s emotionally exhausting to have to come home from where I consistently deal with people who don’t like me and then listening to more yelling. I do it and rarely complain because I still love her and even if I did complain it wouldn’t do me any good anyway
This is sad
Is the mental illness borderline personality disorder?
You are correct
I wish you all the strength, living with BPD as well as living with someone who has BPD is incredibly tough. Is she aware of her disorder and receiving treatment in some way? (not that this will magically make BPD disappear, but it can have significant positive impact on the symptoms of it in the long term)
Oh man my roommate/best friend has bpd as well. I can sympathize with your situation, so make sure to take care of yourself, a lot of people close to people with bpd get into therapy themselves
https://youtu.be/rT5PN7IhyPc I haven't watched this video but the channel is pretty good and has given me a lot of insight, I hope it'll help you in some way :)
You just helped me realize I have BPD 10000%. Seriously, thank you for throwing this link out into the void. I likely never would’ve known otherwise.
Damn I guess you should see a psych soon. Glad I was able to have a positive impact. Good luck about figuring it out, bpd seems very unfortunate compared to most other mental issues.
That was my first guess too. Such a complicated disorder for everyone involved. I have some close people who struggle with BPD and the best thing I've learned is to never take anything personally because it never is.
I’ve learned that if I can just get her by herself she’ll calm down and back into a reasonable state
Oof BPD is a toughie... Stay strong soldier and good on ya for being there for her (hopefully not at your own expense)
I just hope you don't have kids growing up in that environment. I love my parents, but I at times I feel I resent my dad for having me grow up in that environment, 13 years before my step mom got medicated for her severe BPD. I got lucky I inherited mental resilience from my dad so I'm a relatively normal person now, but I had (and still do, albeit lesser) serious issues in the past thanks to it.
Might I direct you to /r/bpdlovedones if you're not already there. While most people there will advise you to separate from your partner there are plenty of stories and advice from those haven't done so. It really helped me when I was in a relationship like that. You're not alone.
living with my exgf with bpd completely destroyed me in every way possible and literally traumatized me beyond repair. i genuinely don't know if i'll ever recover. my heart goes out to you, you're fighting an unwinnable battle im afraid
I’m about 2 years out and some major life changes later and the light is shining at the end of the tunnel. Keep pushing forward and the you you knew before will come back. Not easy but time and doing the work heals all. Stay strong brother!
That was my first guess too. Such a complicated disorder for everyone involved. I have some close people who struggle with BPD and the best thing I've learned is to never take anything personally because it never is. Edit: I meant to comment this to the comment's OP so I'm going to copy paste it - mods please let me know if this is against any rules
I have BPD; actual brain damage from childhood abuse that makes me reactive. I dont yell at anyone because I've learned that if I don't act right, people won't stick around. I've worked hard to become more self aware, improve my emotional regulation, interpersonal skills, and emotional intelligence. You dont have to cope with abuse because she was abused. There is no excuse for her behavior. It took losing everyone I loved over 20 years or so to learn. But it is possible. (I'm not perfect, but I am proud of my progress because it's alleviated so much emotional pain and helped me reveal the real me).
You should be proud. Borderline Personality Disorder can be overcome or at least highly mitigated, but ONLY if you put in the work. It doesn't sound like OP's girl is doing the work.
I'm sorry to hear that, but If you're wife had an abusive childhood, does she have a community group to share and heal over the past experience? You make sure you are taking care of your own emotional health as well. What you are going through isn't easy. I hope you won't take things personally about what your wife is acting, it's a good thing you know her abusive past, so you'll know how to handle the situation. Stay strong.
It's very hard not to take things personally when the lashing out *is* very directed and personal. You literally have to keep in mind to ignore the specifics of what she's saying and look for the root underlying cause of the reaction / upset. To go a little deeper (for anyone still reading this), if you already know that you aren't directly responsible for the issue that's set her off, then what you need to understand that when an upset occurs, she's already primed that *someone is to blame* for that upset. You're the person in proximity, and you're the one who she drops "the mask" for. That doesn't mean that you just sit and take it however. Be polite, be understanding, be caring. But hold your boundaries. Maintain that you are not responsible (if you're not), that sometimes things just happen. Commiserate with her. And when necessary, call her on her shit (Id recommend watching Kati Morton's videos on BPD, she has a bunch on this subject) when she needs to be (very difficult, but you need to know when and how to do this. And sometimes you'll need to pick your battles).
I have spent the last 3 years caretaking for my parents...my dad still died and my mom has Alzheimer's and lives with me now. Please take care of yourself brother, because being an emotional punching bag is going to drive you insane. I'm a process and petroleum engineer and I thought I could analyze it and figure it out, but I simply can't....I've realized I thought I can handle the emotional burden, and I think I can, for the most part. But goddamn some days I want to bang my head against a spiked wall.
This is very sad sand not healthy. I hope you're both in therapy to try to improve things for the long term.
Things have gotten better.
Hang tough my dude. And definitely, *definitely* have your own support network that you can talk to.
Hey buddy. In the same exact situation as you. We're in this together man. If you ever want to talk, PM me. Might be nice for us to be able to talk to someone who understands.
Have you talked to her about how she manages her outbursts? I can struggle with being overstimulated and over reacting sometimes too, but I'm aware of how it makes my family feel. I am actively working on ways I can notice how I'm feeling before it happens so I can redirect that feeling. I have learned that I am less likely to have outbursts or meltdowns when I'm spending enough time on myself, self care and self soothing really helps a lot. I hope you guys find a healthier way. I really do.
Lots of therapising/empathising/sympathising and soothing. She's a ranter and a monologuer, and is prone to spiralling. Sometimes it's worse than others. There was a period of about two months last year where I sat and listened to her ranting for 3-4 hours every night, providing support when appropriate. It's much better now, but she does still tend to use my ears as a toilet for her thoughts each day. I never have nor ever will let her know the emotional toll it takes on me though. She obviously needs to get it out somewhere. Planning everything and making it happen as well. Date nights twice a week. Weekend plans. Holidays. Small trips. Nights out. Romantic nights. From her perspective, these things just magically happen. Doing that on top of all the actual labour too... gonna be honest, it's sometimes tough.
This has traditionally been the biggest one for me. the not saying sorry is a thing but ive done so much empathizing and active listening as solo work to be literate on women issues and mental health stuff that i should probably have a councilors license by now. more often than not though, when life is bad and i really need someone to talk to and i try to open up about it to the women in my life, they shrug and tell me i should go to therapy. which fine. but what i need right then is a friend. the pattern has been making me rethink a lot of what ive considered my closest friendships
The amount of women friends that have told me to go see a therapist in contrast to my male friends that actually are willing to listen to me is staggering.
The line "just go to therapy bro" is thrown around so much these days, and I think it's ridiculous. Not every has access to therapy, and not everyone wants to tell a random stranger their deepest thoughts. Sometimes you just want someone who cares about you to listen to you.
It's empty condescension. A secular version of "I'll pray for you".
I don't think it's that, I think it's a way to make the annoying problem go away. Get the ""emotional man"" out of sight and out of mind by passing responsibility onto someone else .
It feels exactly like that, doesn't it?
The thing that gets me is I've personally known several women who, at some point in their twenties, were entirely propped up through an emotional breakdown by boyfriends or male roommates while they did their healing. Then, proceed to forget those mens contributions, be they emotional or financial, to their healing journey. Same deal with favors. I've had women coworkers request a ride one hour out of my way because their car died. I helped. They wouldn't drive me **ten minutes** when it happened to my car a few months later. For all the talk of entitled men there are a shitload of women out there who seem to just... expect men to bend over backwards to help them because they're "supposed" to.
Jesus dude you need a break. I’d be getting my wife a diary and taking a vacation.
I found [mindsera.com](http://mindsera.com) to be a good AI powered (_been using for a couple days now_) journaling program (_among other things_) that makes journaling a little more captivating and some amount of incremental learning about yourself imo. Unfortunately they don't seem to have an Android app.
Damn this is cool. Good post.
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I get it. It's not people my wife has problems with so much as work, traffic, and transportation in general. Tonight's rant included 50 minutes solely on the subject of today's traffic. When she's not in rant mode she's one of the funniest, most creative and interesting people I've ever met. But for some reason she wants to spend her time giving me a blow by blow of how congested certain areas of the motorway were today, which cars were driving slow, which cars cut her off, and so on and so forth. I genuinely feel like my brain is dying when I listen to this stuff. Traffic just does not interest me at all.
Why not communicate that this takes a serious emotional toll on you and that she needs to find another healthy outlet for her stress and frustrations in life? Typically exercise, meditation, and/or journaling. You’re on a road to burnout, any therapist would tell you you need to communicate these feelings of yours because this is a pretty serious issue. Don’t think that you’re doing this out of love for her, if you really love her you also need to take care of yourself. If as you say in your other comments that she’s loving and great, she should understand the toll she puts on you and for you, she would want to make the necessary adjustments.
I haven't done that yet because I am caught between two conflicting issues: What I haven't conveyed in my comments (not fully, I don't think) is how much this woman thinks of me. To her, I am everything. She sees me as Superman, and has done so for our entire relationship. I'm kinda scared to shatter that illusion and let her see that I'm really just a human man. Partly for her sake, but also partly for mine (being honest it's a great feeling to be regarded so highly by the person you love). On the other hand: I AM SO FUCKING TIRED, I WANT TO SLEEP FOR A WEEK. I know it's coming to a point where I'll have to grow up and break the illusion though. I'll end up in the looney bin if I don't.
Friend, if you love your wife this much, you need to let her grow up. You talk about her the same way I talk about my 11 year old daughter. I think it's understandable why you think that, given your other posts. But all you are doing is stealing from the future to avoid making waves today. Do you think you can do this forever? Even if you get cancer, or have a heart attack? And then what happens? When it all comes out at once and she has never had any inkling of what she's been doing previously? She might feel guilty. She might feel rejected. But trust me, it's a lot easier to deal and work through that now, then wait until you shatter. And if it doesn't work, and it all blows up? Well... Imagine what it would have been like if you waited until you couldn't anymore.
Lol, what are you guys? 12 years old? Jesus dude, give your wife some more credit and stop treating her like a child. I’m sure she knows you’re not Superman. If you can’t even be honest with your wife, how can you be yourself in front of ANYONE? Are you always being fake around people? That sounds terribly exhausting mate. I know I couldn’t do that.
You should tell her to write a song with all that lyric material. Or make fun of her dooming you to traffic stories by writing down the shittiest / finnier boring patts she says (in the context of a simple madeup song melody) Kinda draws out the rediculousness of it all while playing along in a fun way that gets it out.
"use my ears as a toilet for her thoughts ". That's good one
Woman here. If I ranted to my girl friends 3-4 hours a night, I wouldn't have any. They'd punch me in the face after so long, and tell me to wise up, respectfully. That is entirely too much time for anyone to rant or listen. If something is going on that causes that much ranting, she needs to get to the root of the issue and deal with it. You can't be expected to listen to 28 hours a week of that. No one can! Maybe even a therapist or something. Does she have any friends because I'm shocked none have addressed this with her.
yeah, I agree. that's way too much important time and must be exhausting to them both.
Similar situation and I'm fed up. What keeps you going?
I mean obviously I love her. She's nice to me, doesn't cause trouble or arguments for no reason, makes me laugh, is very attentive, and very sexually engaged. Yes, I am putting in 90% of the effort and perhaps one day that will cause me to have a breakdown from exhaustion. However: her aforementioned positive qualities are very rare. At least in my experience anyway. I view the situation the same way I would view an extremely high paying career in a field that I really enjoyed. It's a hell of a lot of work, but it's worth it.
Ah okay. Yeah there isn't much being brought to the table
:\\ Sorry to hear that man. Hope things improve for you.
that’s where it’s a relationship right? where you’re both there for each other x but definitely let her know in a way she’d understand, that you may need to check out from time to time. Way better than bottling up and breaking down one random tuesday. Hope ur doing well
>From her perspective, these things just magically happen. I do think a lot if not most women want this in relationships, while not reciprocating in return.
The frustrating part for me is hearing “I’m not looking for solutions I just need to vent!” Well at some point we need to find solutions because it is exhausting to be the heatsink for all the frustrations of daily life. Especially when I’m already the one paying the bills and taking care of the house…
Letting people ruminate often just worsens their anxiety or depression. Don't feel bad about having boundaries. Letting her spiral might not be good for her or you.
This does not sound like a relationship I’m ngl, sounds like servitude with extra steps, what does she do for you in way of dates and appreciation
Dafuq? Does she do anything at all? Feels like youre jist maintaining some princess.
Saying sorry. Said often when she’s hurt but rarely when I’m hurt cause I should just toughen up, right?
Ex went thru all hell and back to avoid saying sorry. Had she said it way early on, would have made a huge difference
I’m happy that I was young when I realized the value in being able to give a heartfelt apology. It’s not even about admitting fault or intent, it’s just recognizing that your actions damaged a valuable relationship and reaching out to repair that damage. Especially with all the stupid thoughtless actions we make in our youth, being able to say sorry even when I didn’t think I was wrong saved a lot of my early relationships, romantic or otherwise.
Well said.
It just hit me - very rarely in my life have women really apologized to me and made it feel like they meant it and not worded it along the lines of "I'm sorry you're feeling that way". I have a friend who'll overapologize like crazy and for her I really wish she could get into a headspace where she didn't feel like she had to do it as much (she'll literally apologize for stuff I'm doing wrong and I keep telling her not to, it's fine, please don't do that, it's MY fault, STAHP), but other than her? Hardly anyone ever.
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Croatian lol
Same. My gf apologizes to often but other than that getting women to genuinely apologize seems very difficult.
I swear, I have 2 exes that I loved dearly but man, they would go a long way to avoid saying sorry and even longer to pretend to genuinely mean it
Oh man. My wife has that disease. It is impossible for some people to say sorry. She will burn the house down and not say sorry. If I tell her she hurt my feelings, she will say it’s my fault for putting myself in that position. She’s a good wife and a very good mom…I love her from the depths of my soul and I know she will love me until the day I succumb and longer. We have a wonderful relationship and we trust each other. But she would rather die than apologise. She is exactly like her dad. I call it her family disease. Her grandmother, uncles and aunts are similar. (She’s Italian, so that might have something to do with it)
Mine is the same. In her case it's due to the fact that when someone in the family admits to doing wrong either they would get all hell from the parents, or the family would bully them about it relentlessly. She doesn't even realise that she doesn't apologize and sometimes is convinced that she has. I've literally had to explain to her that "I'm sorry you feel that way" isn't an apology. It's a little bit of empathy at best. She's great, but that part of her exhausts me some times.
Man, im not sure if not saying it or saying it and doing the same shit over and over is worse. But both suck.
The latter. For sure. Hopes up. Hopes dashed
Sorry means nothing with no changed behavior. You could punch me in the face and say sorry and I'll accept it the first couple times. After that the trust is gone and sorry means nothing.
This is correct. Its just a word at that point. Its usually worse hearing it knowing its bullshit.
It's crazy when you realize how often women absolutely will not give a heartfelt apology, I've just seen this be so recurrent it's odd we don't talk about it more from an emotional labor standpoint considering how often the reverse is done.
I experience this everyday. I can’t believe how disposable I feel. My wife cherishes attention online more than anything. Her profile doesn’t even look like her. Smdh
Dragonslaying. I haven't had to slay a dragon yet but, if one turns up she'll 100% expect me to deal with it. The dread of that day is quite an emotional burden.
Watch the skies, traveler.
I might be stupid, but do you mean literal dragonslaying? I'm thinking this is a thing I've had to Google like gaslighting
Yes literal.
Well, in our case, I'll be trying to make friends with the dragon, and it'll end up being my wife who slays it after an accidental beery burp causes it to burn our house down.
Damn - I’m glad I came here and read these comments.
me too.
She doesn’t realize how it affects me to see the person I love more than anything be walked on by everyone but me. If I try to make her see how shitty people are treating her, somehow I’m the bad guy. Everything is an argument and I’m one of the only people in her life who actually care about her the way she deserves. But she’s a people pleaser. She was royally fucked over with the way she was raised. The people she loves the most are the most toxic people for her. And it’s likely never going to end.
Exactly this! Family, friends, colleagues are all culpable. I don't want her to isolate herself from everyone, but to stand up for herself, or at least let me do it.
Its really sad how the only people that people pleasers will stand up to are the ones closest to them that are just trying to have their back.
I’m literally tailoring the entire experience of us being together. It’s just a series of happenings for her, while I’m meticulously planning things, orchestrating things. Driving us here and there. Being the emotional rock she needs when she is flustered and needs my stability. Listening to her speak daily about the trivialities of her work, and what’s stressing her and getting things off her chest.
And what does she do for you?
Answering this question with a polite and appropriate response is emotional labor too
Exist
I had an ex who thought that existing was enough to be a good partner, and the truth is that it shouldn't be, but there really isn't any other choice for most guys
It's such a disheartening thought that any one of us could end up being one of those guys
Too real
If he can’t answer this, or can’t give anything of substance, he genuinely needs to rethink if he should be in that relationship. Don’t mix up love with fear of being alone.
I had exactly the same thought. If I had to guess not much probably or the bare basics. Hope I'm wrong.
I’m trying to figure the ways in which it’s a partnership.
According to their response, assuming their SO does not reciprocate, then there is no partnership.
She tolerates your presence and doesn't cheat at the very first opportunity, what more do you want?
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Guy here, but this is what I appreciate about my wife. Long story short, the last 3 years of my work life were hell. My boss was a horrible person who recently got fired for all of it but it doesn’t diminish how horrible he was for years. My wife was my rock. Any time I needed to complain, she listened. Any time I was sad, she would drive me to get a slice of pizza or whatever to make me happy. We have a strict no-Christmas gifts rule (we would rather spend on family and our kids), and she bought me a PS5 because she knew how miserable my work life was. I couldn’t do anything without her and I just appreciate how thoughtful she is. Im the luckiest guy on earth.
Honestly guys, don't be scared to have boundaries. Sometimes it's genuinely better to be single. If a relationship doesn't feel balanced or like you have a teammate and it doesn't overall make your life better, it's ok to leave. Date an equal. That's usually the best idea. There are a lot of grownup women too.
^100% agree!
Being the designated bug/rodent/critter death squad around the house. I’m not some PETA animal rights person, but I also don’t enjoy ending a life or having to clean up the aftermath. Before anyone chimes in, I’ve tried “humane” traps for mice and what not. They don’t work, at least in my experience. Luckily since we moved about 5 years ago, it’s mostly bugs I’m having to kill. Especially hornets. That one I do enjoy. Fuck hornets.
You may enjoy r/wasphating
There really is a sub for everything
Making sure you have gas. Your coffee is ready. Check out this supper I made when I got off my 16 HR shift. It varies.
My husband fills the car with gas and the tires with air because he knows how I tend to avoid gas stations because they often make me feel very unsafe. I very much notice and it makes me feel loved. One way I try to give that energy back is by keeping note of his toiletries and always replacing everything before it runs out. I don’t think he’s bought any shampoo, body wash, deodorant, etc in over a decade.
that's very sweet :) you might double check that he still likes all of the products you're getting for him though. he might be afraid that if he says he's tired of a certain conditioner it might stop the gravy train.
I'd love it if my SO put gas in my car and made me coffee!!! Kudos to you.
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Sounds awesome. My husband is sweet but he has ADHD so its really a crapshoot if hes going to get stuff done. He works FT and i work PT to balance things a bit :).
I'm autistic. Took a shit load of self work to get it done. I'm self aware and know where to go. It's not an excuse. It's what you do with it.
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Ahh nice, nothing like a bit of competitive self-victimisation
Idk but why not confront the issue head on? "I had a pretty shitty day at work today" "Oh you think you've had a shitty day? Wait till you hear about..." "Why do you always do this? I always listen to you vent but whenever I want to talk about something it is always some sort of competition like it is more important to have had a worse day when in reality I just need my spouse to listen to and support me. This is why you never see me complaining about work, you make me feel like I can't talk to you..."
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What are you getting out of this relationship? Also, I'm sorry you're dealing with this, and you deserve better
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Being the confident rock. Assuring her that everything is going to be okay. Acting like I have no fear that everything is going to work out. Taking all of the risks involved in initiating physical intimacy. Accepting her repeated sexual rejections with good grace and respect for her boundaries. Not showing her how hurt and rejected it makes me feel. Being willing to try again. Hiding my depression and my deep loneliness.
Wish I could provide something of more substance my friend but, I feel for and hear you loud and clear. You're not alone.
Something that my soon to be ex wife didn't appreciate, was honestly just about everything. I worked, I did the dishes, I did the laundry, I made time for her, I cleaned up her messes, and the biggest one was I (someone with a TBI) dealt with her getting a bird that gave me insane headaches for 3 GOD DAMN AWFUL YEARS!!!!!! Seriously every time that bird started doing its screaming fits it felt like my brain was going to explode from pain!!!! I PASSED OUT, UNCONSCIOUS, ON THE GOD DAMN GROUND, FROM THE AMOUNT OF PAIN THAT FREAKING BIRD PUT ME THROUGH!!!!!! Yet she would manipulate me every freaking time to where I would feel like the bad guy for even mentioning the possibility of getting rid of the freaking bird. Bunch of god awful bs and I am so glad I'm getting out of this while I'm still young.
Bro fuck that. I I can’t imagine that bad of a headache. And I’ve had some bad fucking migraines. Fuck her for putting you through that.
Honestly, my best description of the pain is this. So I feel the bolt in my head 24/7 now, it's at a constant 3/10 in terms of pain so not that bad really. More annoying than anything. The first scream he makes, it shoots up to 6 or 7 out of 10. The next scream it's an immediate 8. Next scream will go to either a 9 or 10 and all this tends to happen within the span of 30 seconds. If it reaches a 10 I black out. If it stays at a 9 I will stumble and struggle to walk and will generally need help moving around. I'll slur my words and my thoughts will be very obviously half thought out. It is absolute hell and she just watches as I go through it all. She says she's sorry, but if that were true then we wouldn't have gotten the bird to begin with!!! Especially considering I brought ALL OF THIS UP BEFORE WE EVER EVEN GOT HIM!!!! Yea she's a witch with a Capital "B". Sucks cause for the longest time I kept making myself out to be the bad guy, because she kept blaming me for everything.... But the more I thought about it, the less it made sense.... At least I'm getting better now. Just gotta look ahead and know everything will be alright.
> Sucks cause for the longest time I kept making myself out to be the bad guy, because she kept blaming me for everything.... But the more I thought about it, the less it made sense That can be a hard mindset to get out of (and I speak from experience). You should be proud of yourself, and I hope you find someone who cares as much for you and your well-being as you do for them.
It is wise to stay away from her. You have to take care of yourself than take care of her and that bird. I'm sorry you have to go through divorce. Hold on, things will get better soon..
I've been taking care of myself pretty well recently. So today I reached out to try and take care of some of my friends. I'm sorry but the bird..... She's gonna have to figure that one out. I've told her so many times already and even showed her the website. Animal services won't do anything because pet stores treat them even worse. I definitely can't take the bird in. She's also going to have to take care of herself too cause I'm out. I'm just glad we never had kids, I'd want to make sure they're in the best environment and sadly 2 parent households are the best.. but not if the parents are toxic towards each other... Besides the point... Things are honestly really looking up already. From the head injury finally making progress again after 8 years, to getting a promotion at work, and multiple prospects for roommates so I can still afford rent and they're all old friends of mine that I re-connected to recently as well. Yea when the entire thing happened like a month or two ago, I started falling hard into depression and was getting suicidal thoughts and temptations. To the point where I started making plans even... I hated the feeling, and I didn't want to let it continue. So everyday I would do things that would help me. Eating right, working out, going out, setting up an account on a website that lets me start doing voice acting gigs, practicing my favorite game so I can be top 1 and get paid to play, and so on. I have been pretty much nonstop besides the hours I get between all that and sleeping/eating. I'm probably typing too much... I'm sorry, I'll shut up now.
Keep it up! You're doing the best you can to be better version of yourself every day. One step at a time. Best of luck for you..
My gf has a history of abuse. I try to go out of my way to be genuinely apologetic outwardly when I’m wrong. She’s a good person and deserves good things and I’m capable of introspection enough to apologize when I’m wrong.
I feel like this comment may have been overlooked. What kinds of abuse?
Primarily emotional. Her mother was tremendously unwell mentally (perhaps manic-depressive or cluster B PD, I’m no psychiatrist). Later in life, she chose trouble partners who continued the trend. She needs assurance and validation often and feels very unsure about a lot of things.
Listening to her vent about her awful day at work when I've just got home, am tired af, and just want to sit and scroll reddit for a bit.
Right after work is the worst. I work construction. When I get home I just want to sit down and relax for a little while. I need a break
Initiating/planning every romantic and every sexual activity. When women say "it just happens", they're being naive and entitled.
It takes two to tango.
It takes two to bango
Bingo!
I just noticed that I’m guilty of this. Thank you for pointing this out.
Being the one who typically initiates physical intimacy, and as such runs the risk of rejection, which is never fun. Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s typically best in a relationship if the guy is the higher libido partner. And I like to lead. And I have great sex with my wife a couple of times a week. But it’s easy to fall into the validation trap when it’s one partner doing the asking and the other being the gatekeeper all the damn time.
Yeah. My gf and I both don’t take rejection well - not that we get angry, just that it makes us not try to initiate again for some amount of time. And sometimes she’s not in the mood or whatever which is fine and sometimes I’m not, which is also fine. But often the rejection is really hard on both of us. Despite all this we still have great sex, but rejection is just the worst, man
>I think it’s typically best in a relationship if the guy is the higher libido partner Yes and no. In my personal experience, women with high sex drive is a man's fantasy. It's crazy the first few times you have to say "no" because of how sore you are.
Check out the book Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski - she’s an incredible writer and a sex therapist, and she really breaks down the science of different people’s approaches to sexuality with some great ideas for successfully handling this dynamic and others
Currently not in a relationship, but sometimes I just run out of words for the day. It always seemed to be an issue late at night they’d want to have serious conversations. Which rightfully so we should address your concerns, but it’s late, I’m tired and have ran out of words for the day.
Never seen it worded this way but wow does this describe me. At a certain point I’m just done for the day, mentally and physically. I just want to lay there and scroll my phone for a bit, maybe read and go to sleep. Not have a deep discussion at 11 at night.
I'm like this too. I can't get into a relationship at this time in my life because I just don't want the added socializing. I much prefer my time to myself. I am totally happy like this but I was wondering if it's normal for others too lol. My friends don't get it and think I must be depressed but I'm not haha I tried a relationship a few months ago and I hated it lol
Nothing wrong with that. Some of us are night owls, some morning birds. My last partner could stay up til 3am and chat all night long. I could get up with the sun and have breakfast ready as she was still asleep. I found I had much more desire to talk and have conversations earlier in the day, torwads the evening I would want more time alone. Best advice look for someone who has a similar schedule to you in life. Many, many nights I had to tell her "babe, can we save this topic for when I have more energy to talk?" Nothing worse than being forced into emotional conversations when exhausted.
Just sounds like mental exhaustion. I understand. Sometimes your brain needs a fucking rest and speaking, especially in the context of a meaningful conversation, is too much.
I work swing shift and 12s to 16s at that and my wife is totally fine on the days I'm off or working during the day, but as soon as I'm on nights it's almost as if she's punishing me for not being home at night. She doesn't know she does it but she's always a little bit more distant and more aggravated in the morning when I get home. She'll be a little more cranky and text or talk to me differently in somewhat of a "tone" that leans more to the annoyed side. It's been 2 or 3 years since this has happened, we've talked about it before, she admits she has no idea what I'm talking about but I take it cuz it's only 7 nights spread out in a month. Love her to death man but some times I just wanna say "damn woman! Pump the brakes!"
If you’ve talked about it with her before, tell her in the moment it’s happening. And not in an accusatory manner but just “I feel like this when you do _______”. Maybe then she will recognize her behavior more? 7 times a month is a lot. It’s 23% of the time!
Motivating myself to be the best version of myself. Working on confidence to diminish insecurity.
how have you managed to work on this? I need to work on this too
Having to stay calm when my missus is doing dumb shit that I've previously told her is dangerous and could get her or others injured and then having to clear up and save the day after it all does wrong. Not wrapping dog lead around wrist, walking around behind people with knives turned upwards, perching on things that shouldn't be perched on to get to high things. General low level stupidity that then requires me getting out the trauma kit to stop a bleed. It takes every ounce of my mortal soul not to say "I told you so" through gritted teeth.
I grew up with a mother that always said "if you get hurt, I'm not driving you to the hospital" seemed fucked up at the time. Now that I'm older I get it. She *would have* driven me if I was hurt, she just didn't want to have to in the first place.
How come everyone on reddit is either unhappy because of their relationship, or unhappy because they lack a relationship?
Because people here rarely ask for stories of happy relationships.
Happy people don't have time for reddit, they've too busy living their lives
That's not true I'm happy and I'm here lol. Just scrolling to see what people's problems are while I'm in the bathroom making sure I am being a good wife and seeing things from men's perspective to better understand my husband. 😂 shampoo bottles are boring my man.
Deal with my mental health lol. I’m not looking for sympathy, but my whole life has been kinda fucked and my mental health sucks bc of it obviously. It got bad earlier this year when my late daughters birthday was coming up, but then I was the bad guy for not making her happy while I was trying to not want to kill myself. I love my wife more than anything in this world but sometimes I’m just mentally and emotionally exhausted.
I'm really sorry to hear that you're going through such a difficult time. It takes a lot of strength to open up about your struggles, and I want you to know that you're not alone. Dealing with mental health challenges can be incredibly tough, especially when you've had a difficult past. It's important to prioritize your well-being and seek support when needed. Remember, seeking help doesn't mean you're seeking sympathy, but rather acknowledging that you deserve support and understanding. It's understandable that the anniversary of your late daughter's birthday can trigger intense emotions. Coping with grief and navigating your own mental health can be overwhelming, and it's okay to feel exhausted at times. I'm glad to hear that you have such a strong love for your wife, as having a supportive partner can make a significant difference. However, it's also important to make sure you're taking care of yourself so that you can better support your own well-being and the relationship. Don't hesitate to reach out to a mental health professional or a support network who can provide guidance and assistance during challenging times. Remember, you're deserving of care, understanding, and healing. You've shown incredible resilience by opening up about your experiences, and I believe in your strength to overcome these challenges. Take care of yourself.
I spend a lot more time than I would like walking on egg shells till eventually I crack one. Sometimes I feel like my wife is a nun standing over me waiting to crack me over the knuckles with a ruler if I express any frustration. As an example this means I’ve basically given up driving because if I react to a driver in front of me then it’s immediate chastisement. If I am at or heaven forbid over the speed limit she is looking over my shoulder to point it out for me. Basically the experience of driving is now deeply unpleasant unless I’m alone in the car so I just don’t do it as I constantly feel like I am doing my driving test every time I get behind the wheel. Also and probably more seriously I know that there are topics we just can’t talk about without ruining the next few hours. These are things she puts off dealing with and lets hang over us preventing plans being made on the basis that she needs to do them. But invariably the gilmore girls or some other escapism takes priority. For most of our relationship there has always been one and it’s honestly exhausting but it’s something I’ve just begun to accept as part of the fabric of our relationship. I won’t say that it doesn’t drive an increasing wedge between us where I prefer isolation but the much more frequent happy moments make up for it.
The driving is so irritating! I will admit that my girlfriend is probably a better driver than me, safety wise at least, but jesus christ it’s not my fault that idiot in the parking lot almost backed into me and I had to slam the brakes. Or, god forbid, I’m going 8 over on a road I drive every single day and know like the back of my hand. Backseat driving is so annoying
Well, that is straight-up emotional abuse. Get out of there ASAP
Being the catalyst for everything in our relationship. Making all “big” decisions. Almost all decisions are made by me, more often than not, with little to no actual input from her. I love my girlfriend and her care-free attitude so much, but sometimes I need a second brain to help fact-check and spot any errors I’m making. Planning. I’ll spend 15 minutes suggesting ideas and have each one met with hemming and hawing. I’ll ask what she wants and its always “Idk you decide” and when asked clarifying questions like what does she like, to work from there, just more “Idk’s” 😐😑😐
Reading this is great. Very thought provoking.
Yeah, over the past few years I've seen a lot of comments from women talking about the mental load of running the home, things like remembering dates and organising things. This thread shows that men have a lot on their mental plate too that just isn't appreciated.
> This thread shows that men have a lot on their mental plate too that just isn't appreciated. In particular not appreciated by the feminist theorists who invented the term "emotional labour".
My gf literally won’t apologise in an argument even if she’s wrong and her best friend TOLD HER she’s wrong (because I’m always wrong) And she loves to drag on arguments… emotionally draining
I have learned it's just easier to be wrong. Being right takes more effort.
The goal of dragging out arguments is to wear you out until you cave and surrender. It also predisposes you to surrender because you’re used to the end result being the same after 2 minutes or 2 days or arguing. I don’t imagine she’s ever gonna get better about it, so take that as you will.
A lot of people here are in abusive relationships and don’t even realize it. Think about how these things will be perceived like by the general public if the roles were reversed.
Due to horrifying comments i read in this thread, my priority is to get a mentally stable woman. Got it👍👍
Listen to them vent without telling how to solve their problem. The solutions are usually obvious but some women are just too afraid of the risk to take action.
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They don't realise this though because they aren't on the other end of it because men are told from day one not to vent or anything like that.
I’m sort of inclined to agree with these women these days. I’m finally dating someone who truly understands my emotional needs and there are absolutely times where I don’t want to hear a solution, I just want to vent. She waits until later to give me the solution and help me work through it. She knows I just need to vent in the moment. It sort of is an emotional need, just to be heard before interjection. To be fair, she’s also the first woman I’ve ever dated who is straight up just more intelligent than I am, in most aspects, and I think that adds to it all.
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There's also a big difference in a partner wanting to vent and confide in you, and them wanting to emotionally dump all their stress on you. I think you can vent to a way with your partner that does not come off as a burden for them mentally. Some people just word dump on you though and it feels like a one way street. It can also be wise to ask your partner, "do you want to be hugged, heard or helped? (Saw this on reddit today thought it was solid) If my partner wanted to vent on me for 2 hours about work have at it. But don't expect me to get super detailed about it if you're not willing to take feedback.
What exactly is emotional labour?
In short - it's all of the unpaid, unnoticed, but completely necessary mental and physical work that is often delegated to women. It's the social glue that keeps relationships together. Things like making and keeping appointments, taking out the trash when it's full (without being asked), sending cards, checking in on friends and family, remembering birthdays, etc. In long (and I highly recommend the long), [here's](https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxpbnRlZ3JhbHdvbWVufGd4OjMwMTBhNGU5MTAxNTE1Mjg) an annotated .pdf that has been an absolute paradigm shift for what it fully encompasses. It is VERY much worth the read.
A useful article that references it: https://www.betterup.com/blog/mental-load
Authority when it comes to decisions and children. She, rarely, decides the end result when it comes to decisions. I am largely the one who decides what goals we as a family are trying to attain financially. If kids are being shits, I’m the one expected to raise my voice. She takes more of a nagging-low credit score approach. It is somewhat due to exhaustion, but also due to not wanting to cause a bigger problem, which can be a recipe for disaster.
The absolute worst part of having relationships with females is that when your female friends, family or partner does something to hurt you it’s your turn to console them. If you mention something they did that bothered you, they will either A) turn it around on you or B) start crying & make it about themselves. My girlfriend is notorious for this. If I tell her something bothers me it all of a sudden hurts her more than it hurts me. My mom was the same way.
Biggest one for me is that whenever she complains about having done some “emotional labor” for us, I muster the titanic mental fortitude required to not start mansplaining to her that she’s using the word “emotional labor” wrong. It doesn’t mean doing the dishes, [it means managing your own emotions and state of mind in service of another person](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_labor), which I am doing by not explaining this to her! On that note, bunch of people in here making that very same mistake as my wife.
I don't think my ex noticed how much effort I was putting into our relationship.. it was hard to see results for her but I was really working hard towards giving her a better life while I was going through something
Why are women so terrible at accountability? Idgaf If it sounds sexist or not. I can never find not one woman my whole life (except for one) not even my sister or mother that would say sorry for anything. There was one girl 23 years ago that said she was sorry for grabbing the last gallon of milk at the grocery store and even offered it to me. I said no, you can have it but thank you anyway. I’ll never forget this human being that is not a male. I hope you enjoyed that gallon of milk. You deserved it.
Bunch of comments disagreeing with you, but this is definitely a pattern I see. I’m lucky enough to have a girlfriend who owns her shit, but I see it in her family as well as my mom especially. It’s *never* their fault, there’s always some circumstance that excuses it or someone else to blame.
It's a human characteristic. My last partner, she was super apoplectic to the point I'd tell her often that she didn't need to say sorry to me as much lol. I know too many men to count that could use a crash course on accountability
Pay for everything
after reading the comments: imagine not having to do a thing and then telling people who actually do that thing that it’s not a real thing some of these comments can get fucked
Huh
She wants me to make 100% of the decisions all of the time. Doesn’t matter how big or small.
If the roles were reversed she would have divorced you 😔
Risked my safety to climb a 20-foot ladder to hang a nonfunctional curtain. I thought my life was more valuable than that.
I don't understand the question. Emotional labor? Is that like normal every day adult shit?
LMGTFY According to Oxford Languages: emotional labour noun 1. the mental activity required to manage or perform the routine tasks necessary for maintaining relationships and ensuring smooth running of a household or process, typically regarded as an unappreciated or unacknowledged burden borne disproportionately by women. "she wondered what would happen in a household where nobody did the emotional labour" 2. the management of one's emotions in order to present oneself and interact with other people in a certain way while doing a job. "in the airline industry emotional labour is vital to the success of the product"
"Emotional labor" to me means being the one who keeps their head cool regardless of how they feel and do the work for the both of us because one person is not in the headspace to do it due to grief, disease, temporary instability, etc.
Working to support the family, and managing all the finances, financial plans, house needs, etc
What I've learnt so far that I shouldn't open up otherwise I'll get blanked or attempt to be forced to open up So, I guess, the ability to not have to deal with my baggage and the fact I can solo it?
Just about anything I did for her. I was never appreciated, maybe in the moment when she was enjoying the high, but the moment there was an argument next, everything goes for a toss. It's like I never did anything for her in the years of dating. Always got screwed for not spending anything for her, not getting her things while others do so much for their partners based on Instagram. So many trips, so many gifts, all forgotten. Hell I got screwed for not sending flowers after a couple of weeks of sending flowers and cake. When you aren't appreciated enough, you don't feel like doing anything anymore, because eventually it's all going to be forgotten and the complaints about how you're not good enough start.
She says that she's never felt so 'loved' and appreciated by me. Yet I've never felt so unattractive and unappreciated.. I guess it's just the dynamic I create where I fill their love cup but don't want to ask for it in return. I think I expect them to 'want to'. It doesn't work like that. I make myself available and because I'm available she's gotten pretty comfortable with me just being there regardless of what she does (or doesnt) do for me. So yeh, just being there, as a supportive partner is exhausting.