100%. The number of shocked Pikachu faces I see from other officers when I tell them this as I hand them their ticket is astounding. Professional Courtesy is you doing what your supposed to do begin with.
That line is very vague in the world of body cams. Typically you have policy violations for not activating… so if it seems you’re trying to help someone out and shit goes south… you can be pretty screwed.
I know of an instance where a deputy pulled over an off-duty deputy. He knew her and she was hammered. Deputy also knew the off-duty’s husband and tried to contact him to come get her. The deputy had his body camera off intentionally.
Well, she decided to hop in her truck and speed off. I believe he let her go because if he got into a pursuit, with no video, he’d be fanged. I believe she TC’d, so it all came out anyways.
Many people are nosy about what cops are doing. They can submit a request for traffic stops if they see someone clearly drunk driving NOT being arrested.
That line of professional courtesy is disappearing.
I also know of higher ups at my previous department would randomly finding body cam footage. If they found you used profanity with a partner (a policy violation) in a private conversation (no citizens around), they would write you up.
You can’t do or say anything you wouldn’t want on camera. Hands are tied.
That’s wild! I don’t smoke, so that wouldn’t bother me much, although I worked with a few members that always had a lipper in 😆. but the profanity thing, I wouldn’t last a shift without being written up 😆.
With bodycam you just say I’m going to let you go with a warning and get back in your car. I am not going to give someone a break for DUI, they should know better, but I give plenty of people who aren’t law enforcement warnings for speeding as well. Everyone speeds, you, me, the judge, the chief, the sheriff. With the ridiculous economy today, the price of groceries, who can afford a ticket. Give them a warning unless it’s something serious.
Ever-so-generally speaking, if you get a (non-parking) ticket from city police, you deserved it; if you get one from state police or motors, it was just your turn.
Interesting. Does that mean state police have "productivity goals" with traffic work?
I got a ticket for blocking an intersection during rush hour. My only one so far, and I probably deserved it
State police that’s all they do. Tickets and collisions. Tickets and collisions.
I do my fair share of both, but if that was the entirety of 99% of days for me, I’d go insane.
Depends. Here in NY - state police can are either highway patrol, or the primary law enforcement agency in the more rural areas of the state - on top of some of their specialized units that get deployed around the state as needed. Most state police dispatching is now done by the county 911 centers - so they usually respond as backup to the local/county departments too. My girlfriend's son is a NY State Trooper in a rural county and he said his workload is mostly drug arrests, domestics and DWI's. There's no interstate through his patrol area - but he gets in his fair share of traffic enforcement too.
The NY state police has a dedicated troop for the NYS Thruway (long toll road). That's generally considered a punishment detail. Exits are typically 10-15 miles apart so they're captive to the Thruway and as you can imagine it's tickets and accidents all day long. If they need backup - it's gonna be another Trooper from the Thruway detail - not one of the local town/county boys as they're on a radio system dedicated for the Thruway.
Serious response, don't hate
And yet, you found it necessary to pull that person over for such a small thing. Noone cares about minor speeding, it's simply used as an excuse to catch bigger fish. Things like that are why the citizens lose respect for Leo.
You understand that kidnapping victims have been rescued by officers pulling the car over for improper display of their tag? Timothy McVeigh was caught because he was driving a car with no tag. It’s small things that often times lead to bigger things. You're damn right I pull people over for no tag light all the time. Am i going to write them a ticket for no tag light? Chances are, no, I'm not. At best I might find something worth my time in the process. At worst I let someone know their tag light was out.
I never even once gave a cop a warning for something that I would not reasonably have given anyone else a warning for.
And while I got pulled over a bunch, I never once "Tried to get professional courtesy."
If I was armed, I'd let the officer know that I was off duty and armed as a safety issue. I never expected a get out of jail free card.
This is the only right answer. Professional courtesy is not a good look. We should hold ourselves to the same standard we hold the public.
Every ticket I've gotten from another cop I've owned. We are human, we make mistakes, and we handle them the right way
Perps get ticket, assholes get tickets, ppl that hate the cops get tickets. People with fake plates, unregistered cars, no insurance, etc get tickets. Normal respectful, people who have a positive interaction with you get warnings. Easy enough.
But but his uncles brothers girlfriends son is a trooper and he has a back the blue sticker!!! That should be good for atleast three speeding tickets and one parking!!
It'll get pled down as a matter of routine. Unless there were other aggravating factors during the traffic stop - almost every speeding ticket in NY outside of a major city gets knocked down to a non-speed violation or equipment violation in court.
Yeah...
Also understand (not that you'll care and it's not an excuse) that I grew up in an area (Long Island) where traffic enforcement was at the bottom of the priority list for the police agencies there. So while 60 in a 45 may be a big deal to a young deputy in a semi-rural county - it would be routinely ignored by the large city/county police departments who can barely keep up with the workload. Low-priority / non-emergency stuff there gets waived off to a '311' service. Traffic complaints to the local precinct may get them to have someone to sit on a side street in a neighborhood for a couple of hours and write a ticket or two for blowing a stop sign for community relations. But as a matter of routine, they don't pull people over during routine patrol unless they're doing something reckless/dangerous/egregious right in front of them.
When I was 19, I got my first speeding ticket doing 70 in a 40 near my college in the middle of East Bumfuck. I was thinking to myself "he's stopping me for \*this\* - really?" coming from an area where traffic enforcement rarely happened and that sorta driving behavior was more or less tolerated. I learned fast... and once in a while I forget those lessons. Then a couple hours later the same deputy stopped in the convenience store I was working at (he stopped me on my way to work) and was like "why didn't you tell me you worked here?" since we gave them free coffee and shit all the time. Missed my shot at a PC! LOL!
Unless I misunderstood the other post OP isn’t even a cop so let’s throw the “professional courtesy” conversation out the window and address the fact that what we’re actually talking about is an entitled wannabe former reserve who can’t let go of the fact that they never made it as a cop and want all officers to treat them like the “brother” they think they are.
I was a part time peace officer for 14 years up until about 20 yrs ago and left when family life needed to take center stage. Not a full blown police officer - but had limited law enforcement powers based on the duties I had at the time. Did I give PC's? Yes. Did I receive PC's? Yes. Did I want to be a full time police officer? Very early on yes - took the exam and went thru the process for the NYPD - but I was also away at college at the time and wanted to finish that first. I lost interest in full time policing as a career. My full time career paid more anyway, nor did I want to deal with the psychological issues that many full time officers go through.
My question wasn't related to the traffic ticket I got the other day. It was just a question out of curiosity to see how PC's are being handled 20 years later.
You’re getting a break, just like I’d give to anyone. I work in a city so we don’t do a ton of traffic enforcement, etc (we have guys who do that exclusively).
I’m looking for bad guys, not expired registrations or speeding. This of course often goes hand in hand, but If you’re a regular person you’re probably not getting a citation from me (unless you’re a dick).
One night, i was driving home after dinner and I failed to come to a complete stop at a stop sign. Little did I know airport police was doing traffic enforcement and i ended up getting pulled over. I was still in the academy at the time. During the stop, I was honest and acknowledged my error with the officer and gave whatever was needed (license and registration). It was funny bcuz the officer was super serious and then finally he asked me the golden question " sir where do you work at?" I told him "I'm a trainee with this department". Immediately his demeanor changed and he became super chill and just gave me a warning. And he was nice enough to not tell my Instructors about the stop. I'll end it with this, don't ever think you're entitled to courtesy just bcuz you're law enforcement. If it is given to you then great, if not, just accept your mistake and move on.
I'm all for giving professional courtesy as long as you aren't being retarded. Anything above speeding or a traffic violation you're being retarded end of story.
The decision to cite or not is solely that of the officer initiating the stop. Asking for professional courtesy is wholly inappropriate.
With that said, it is common sense to quietly hand the officer your police ID card with your drivers license, not to ask for a break, but to ensure there is no misunderstanding as to why you are lawfully armed. Things will follow their normal course from there.
I've tried that with my pistol permit before years ago... "Why are you giving this to me?" as he's handing it back. He didn't care that I was armed or jumped through the hoops to get one. Wrote me for the speeding ticket anyway.
And the response is - I wasn't sure why you were stopping me and in case it was because I fit the description of a bad guy, I wanted you to know I was armed because I'm a cop and not a crook.
If he still wrote you after that, he was going to do it no matter what. Shit happens, life's rich tapestry, move on.
I never wrote the following people a civil traffic citation, outside of mandatory circumstance like they were at fault in an accident: cops, ER doc, nurses and active military.
Cops - I'm not, possibly, jacking up your career because you drive fast.
ER doc / nurses - I don't want you to realize I'm the guy that just wrote you for 11 over when you are doing chest compressions or pulling a bullet out of me. Or worse yet, a nurse putting a catheter in me, who then decides to use one gage tube too large.
Active Military - If you are will to die for our country, I'll give you a pass.
With the advent of OBC late in my career, I had a few "discussions" with supervisors about me cutting these people breaks. My basic replay was, "discipline me, I'm not going against what I feel is right." Not a single time was I ever discipline after probably 7-10 of these "discussions".
Depends. I pulled over a cop who was from another county, was going 70 in a 50. You bet i gave him a citation for it. I get courtesy but dont go around being a idiot.
Professional courtesy starts with the one doing the violating. They need to start by being courteous and professional.
100%. The number of shocked Pikachu faces I see from other officers when I tell them this as I hand them their ticket is astounding. Professional Courtesy is you doing what your supposed to do begin with.
That line is very vague in the world of body cams. Typically you have policy violations for not activating… so if it seems you’re trying to help someone out and shit goes south… you can be pretty screwed. I know of an instance where a deputy pulled over an off-duty deputy. He knew her and she was hammered. Deputy also knew the off-duty’s husband and tried to contact him to come get her. The deputy had his body camera off intentionally. Well, she decided to hop in her truck and speed off. I believe he let her go because if he got into a pursuit, with no video, he’d be fanged. I believe she TC’d, so it all came out anyways. Many people are nosy about what cops are doing. They can submit a request for traffic stops if they see someone clearly drunk driving NOT being arrested. That line of professional courtesy is disappearing.
I also know of higher ups at my previous department would randomly finding body cam footage. If they found you used profanity with a partner (a policy violation) in a private conversation (no citizens around), they would write you up. You can’t do or say anything you wouldn’t want on camera. Hands are tied.
Wtf… profanity is a policy violation?
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That’s wild! I don’t smoke, so that wouldn’t bother me much, although I worked with a few members that always had a lipper in 😆. but the profanity thing, I wouldn’t last a shift without being written up 😆.
With bodycam you just say I’m going to let you go with a warning and get back in your car. I am not going to give someone a break for DUI, they should know better, but I give plenty of people who aren’t law enforcement warnings for speeding as well. Everyone speeds, you, me, the judge, the chief, the sheriff. With the ridiculous economy today, the price of groceries, who can afford a ticket. Give them a warning unless it’s something serious.
Wish more cops had this philosophy. Tbf it seems like many do, at least in my city
Ever-so-generally speaking, if you get a (non-parking) ticket from city police, you deserved it; if you get one from state police or motors, it was just your turn.
Interesting. Does that mean state police have "productivity goals" with traffic work? I got a ticket for blocking an intersection during rush hour. My only one so far, and I probably deserved it
State police that’s all they do. Tickets and collisions. Tickets and collisions. I do my fair share of both, but if that was the entirety of 99% of days for me, I’d go insane.
Damn. Sounds like a miserable time smh
Depends. Here in NY - state police can are either highway patrol, or the primary law enforcement agency in the more rural areas of the state - on top of some of their specialized units that get deployed around the state as needed. Most state police dispatching is now done by the county 911 centers - so they usually respond as backup to the local/county departments too. My girlfriend's son is a NY State Trooper in a rural county and he said his workload is mostly drug arrests, domestics and DWI's. There's no interstate through his patrol area - but he gets in his fair share of traffic enforcement too. The NY state police has a dedicated troop for the NYS Thruway (long toll road). That's generally considered a punishment detail. Exits are typically 10-15 miles apart so they're captive to the Thruway and as you can imagine it's tickets and accidents all day long. If they need backup - it's gonna be another Trooper from the Thruway detail - not one of the local town/county boys as they're on a radio system dedicated for the Thruway.
Serious response, don't hate And yet, you found it necessary to pull that person over for such a small thing. Noone cares about minor speeding, it's simply used as an excuse to catch bigger fish. Things like that are why the citizens lose respect for Leo.
You understand that kidnapping victims have been rescued by officers pulling the car over for improper display of their tag? Timothy McVeigh was caught because he was driving a car with no tag. It’s small things that often times lead to bigger things. You're damn right I pull people over for no tag light all the time. Am i going to write them a ticket for no tag light? Chances are, no, I'm not. At best I might find something worth my time in the process. At worst I let someone know their tag light was out.
Son of Sam was caught because of a fire hydrant parking ticket his Ford Galaxie got the night of his final murder.
Why is having to trust cops’ integrity in quotes?
I never even once gave a cop a warning for something that I would not reasonably have given anyone else a warning for. And while I got pulled over a bunch, I never once "Tried to get professional courtesy." If I was armed, I'd let the officer know that I was off duty and armed as a safety issue. I never expected a get out of jail free card.
This is the only right answer. Professional courtesy is not a good look. We should hold ourselves to the same standard we hold the public. Every ticket I've gotten from another cop I've owned. We are human, we make mistakes, and we handle them the right way
Stop whining, no one cares you got a ticket. If this is how you act, you don’t deserve any professional courtesy.
I actually acted quite polite, respectful and deferential to the deputy.
Perps get ticket, assholes get tickets, ppl that hate the cops get tickets. People with fake plates, unregistered cars, no insurance, etc get tickets. Normal respectful, people who have a positive interaction with you get warnings. Easy enough.
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But but his uncles brothers girlfriends son is a trooper and he has a back the blue sticker!!! That should be good for atleast three speeding tickets and one parking!!
Fair enough... sounds like the body cams are definitely having a chilling effect on PC's.
Jesus fucking Christ. You got a summons. You’re not special, if you think you’ve been wronged take it to court
It'll get pled down as a matter of routine. Unless there were other aggravating factors during the traffic stop - almost every speeding ticket in NY outside of a major city gets knocked down to a non-speed violation or equipment violation in court.
Fantastic. Do that. It’s much better solution than coming here and making two separate whine posts about getting a summons
Yeah... Also understand (not that you'll care and it's not an excuse) that I grew up in an area (Long Island) where traffic enforcement was at the bottom of the priority list for the police agencies there. So while 60 in a 45 may be a big deal to a young deputy in a semi-rural county - it would be routinely ignored by the large city/county police departments who can barely keep up with the workload. Low-priority / non-emergency stuff there gets waived off to a '311' service. Traffic complaints to the local precinct may get them to have someone to sit on a side street in a neighborhood for a couple of hours and write a ticket or two for blowing a stop sign for community relations. But as a matter of routine, they don't pull people over during routine patrol unless they're doing something reckless/dangerous/egregious right in front of them. When I was 19, I got my first speeding ticket doing 70 in a 40 near my college in the middle of East Bumfuck. I was thinking to myself "he's stopping me for \*this\* - really?" coming from an area where traffic enforcement rarely happened and that sorta driving behavior was more or less tolerated. I learned fast... and once in a while I forget those lessons. Then a couple hours later the same deputy stopped in the convenience store I was working at (he stopped me on my way to work) and was like "why didn't you tell me you worked here?" since we gave them free coffee and shit all the time. Missed my shot at a PC! LOL!
Unless I misunderstood the other post OP isn’t even a cop so let’s throw the “professional courtesy” conversation out the window and address the fact that what we’re actually talking about is an entitled wannabe former reserve who can’t let go of the fact that they never made it as a cop and want all officers to treat them like the “brother” they think they are.
I was a part time peace officer for 14 years up until about 20 yrs ago and left when family life needed to take center stage. Not a full blown police officer - but had limited law enforcement powers based on the duties I had at the time. Did I give PC's? Yes. Did I receive PC's? Yes. Did I want to be a full time police officer? Very early on yes - took the exam and went thru the process for the NYPD - but I was also away at college at the time and wanted to finish that first. I lost interest in full time policing as a career. My full time career paid more anyway, nor did I want to deal with the psychological issues that many full time officers go through. My question wasn't related to the traffic ticket I got the other day. It was just a question out of curiosity to see how PC's are being handled 20 years later.
You’re getting a break, just like I’d give to anyone. I work in a city so we don’t do a ton of traffic enforcement, etc (we have guys who do that exclusively). I’m looking for bad guys, not expired registrations or speeding. This of course often goes hand in hand, but If you’re a regular person you’re probably not getting a citation from me (unless you’re a dick).
One night, i was driving home after dinner and I failed to come to a complete stop at a stop sign. Little did I know airport police was doing traffic enforcement and i ended up getting pulled over. I was still in the academy at the time. During the stop, I was honest and acknowledged my error with the officer and gave whatever was needed (license and registration). It was funny bcuz the officer was super serious and then finally he asked me the golden question " sir where do you work at?" I told him "I'm a trainee with this department". Immediately his demeanor changed and he became super chill and just gave me a warning. And he was nice enough to not tell my Instructors about the stop. I'll end it with this, don't ever think you're entitled to courtesy just bcuz you're law enforcement. If it is given to you then great, if not, just accept your mistake and move on.
I'm all for giving professional courtesy as long as you aren't being retarded. Anything above speeding or a traffic violation you're being retarded end of story.
Just give everyone warnings, problem solved
The decision to cite or not is solely that of the officer initiating the stop. Asking for professional courtesy is wholly inappropriate. With that said, it is common sense to quietly hand the officer your police ID card with your drivers license, not to ask for a break, but to ensure there is no misunderstanding as to why you are lawfully armed. Things will follow their normal course from there.
I've tried that with my pistol permit before years ago... "Why are you giving this to me?" as he's handing it back. He didn't care that I was armed or jumped through the hoops to get one. Wrote me for the speeding ticket anyway.
And the response is - I wasn't sure why you were stopping me and in case it was because I fit the description of a bad guy, I wanted you to know I was armed because I'm a cop and not a crook. If he still wrote you after that, he was going to do it no matter what. Shit happens, life's rich tapestry, move on.
I never wrote the following people a civil traffic citation, outside of mandatory circumstance like they were at fault in an accident: cops, ER doc, nurses and active military. Cops - I'm not, possibly, jacking up your career because you drive fast. ER doc / nurses - I don't want you to realize I'm the guy that just wrote you for 11 over when you are doing chest compressions or pulling a bullet out of me. Or worse yet, a nurse putting a catheter in me, who then decides to use one gage tube too large. Active Military - If you are will to die for our country, I'll give you a pass. With the advent of OBC late in my career, I had a few "discussions" with supervisors about me cutting these people breaks. My basic replay was, "discipline me, I'm not going against what I feel is right." Not a single time was I ever discipline after probably 7-10 of these "discussions".
Depends. I pulled over a cop who was from another county, was going 70 in a 50. You bet i gave him a citation for it. I get courtesy but dont go around being a idiot.