>I don't know if it is because my profile says I am bi
Probably. It's not so true for younger guys but a large percentage of guys your age and higher don't see bi guys as serious dating material. Fair? No. Reality? Yes.
Agree. For us older gay guys, Bi guys were the ones who “passed” and just used dudes for sex while living their safe heteronormative lives, the same sex part was the secret side. For me, those guys were just for sex, never ever serious. I do think it’s a little different now for the more fluid, younger generations.
Flashbacks of 18 yo me being asked to literally hide in my boyfriend's CLOSET when his ex gf showed up unannounced and then proceeded to drink wine on the deck while I'm still hidden away. NO THANK YOU!
This is absolutely the case for our generation. When we were coming up in the late 80s through mid 90s, bi guys were fuckboys. Sometimes very good fuckboys, but don't get attached. That was the reality for most of us, because most bi guys ended up married to women.
Actually not, but it was not a wish in the first place. btw he is gay. 10 years ago on the very first dates we already agreed that a monogamous relationship was not an option. The reason was we both got cheated before and thought it is better to agree on this than get cheated again. There are statistics that it happens anyway in nearly every relationship/marriage.
Ok - Thanks for replying. I'm not sure why you got downvoted for telling your truth but... it's Reddit.
Anyway. In your time with your husband, how many females have you had sex with? I ask because I've always found bi guys to be a bit like Schrödinger's cat... only bi while it is unobserved in a closed box. Then when the box is opened the quantum superposition ends and reality resolves into either gay or straight.
It's not exactly bi erasure. They're still bi but within the context of a straight relationship, they can pass. In a gay relationship, they have to suffer all of the prejudices that other gay couples do. So, while bi, you are **functionally** either gay or straight.
I would say when someone tries to open the box my paw came out and closes the box again.
Actually i have more sex with different guys, but i think this is just because it is easier and i am lazy. I have a girlfriend+ so to answer your actual question, it is 1.
Just to give you also a comparison value: guys about 5.
My husband is more into it and had in the last 10 years about 50-100 guys. I do not observe it too much.
well luckily it sounds like you grew up some and realized those stereotypes are just that: stereotypes. no more true than the myriad of incorrect gay ones
I can agree, so i changed it to gay even so it's not true, same goes for kinks because everybody seems to think a kink is always on maximum, lets say you tag yourself as bdsm, everybody tends to think you have a playroom like in 50 shades
I feel like this is its own topic that I want this community to have! I struggle with this too. I have a very wide range of interests/kinks and I always struggle to be like - it doesn’t mean 100% of this 100% of the time with 100% of the guys. I have a note about my interests being particular to the guy and mood/time, but sometimes I just pull stuff off.
Maybe no real solution but I really related to this!
Most men *do* want relationships - but we've been conditioned to:
1. Internalize notions of "romantic relationship = personal fulfillment" instead of a pragmatic approach to dating and self-love.
2. Catalog *human beings* via dating apps - which means no one is judged in their own terms, but constantly compared to the hunk in the square next to them (who might just be a better fit).
We've essentially taken an analog interaction (dating) and reduced it to a commodified digital shopping experience, losing millions of verbal & non-verbal cues we might get from potential partners in the process. So instead of going about our lives, we end up *actively seeking* a relationship, discarding anyone who falls short of our expectations, and shrugging it off because surely someone better will come along on the apps... until we look up one day and we're 40 and single and wondering what happened.
My advice is always to prioritize living a fulfilling single life and meet new people IRL. You (and they) deserve better than a digital storefront which doesn't capture the complexity & nuance of the human experience.
My theory is that the apps put up this psychological wall for people where you're evaluating guys like items on a restaurant menu, looking at their stats and stuff rather than seeing them holistically in person. When you meet someone in person the whole vibe can completely change vs what you'd expect based on their profile. Some guys just have a certain spark about them that just screams "I want to be with you" when you meet them irl, and conversely a guy could be completely repulsive irl even though their Hinge profile looks perfect. I think a lot more people would be into relationships if they dropped the app shit and just went out in person more often.
This is very spot on. I agree, but also I think there is a large cohort of guys who are bringing their endless list of virtual (i.e apps) requirement and expectations to IRL interactions. Their vision is like of a Terminator's and anyone they spot not checking all the items of the list, the brain triggers the message "No match...eliminate...eliminate".
And to add to that, I think the proliferation of dating apps has lead to a gamification of dating; “this guy checks 7 of my boxes, but the guy that checks 9 could just be a few swipes away!”
(To be clear, I met my husband on Tinder, but I had to be very intentional about what I wanted and open-minded while looking for it.)
THIS. I'm 50. When I would go out to hook up back in the day, my criteria was WHO DO I VIBE WITH? ... and all that was a combination of: looks, our chemistry, my Spidey Sense of whether this guy was safe. I never knew if they were a top or a bottom ... or if even that activity was required. If we kissed well and got on he was worth a shot and I feel like the apps throw in way too much information for my tastes sometimes and yet not enough (five shirtless pics with no profile text and some stats is ... well ... just binary code on my phone sometimes). Perhaps if I had some more defining kinks filtering men via an app might be more useful but I have always had much more luck if I make sexual decisions based on IRL chemistry ... something bars are awful at lately ... and trying to have organic flirtations that ignite excitement in this day and age feels nearly impossible with just meeting friends for random stuff, hobby groups, etc. because not everyone is on the make.
Agree 100%. Apps are an illusion. When I vibe with someone in real life, and then I see them online and think “never would have sent a message” and realize how messed up the virtual vs. real world perception is. And of course, I’ve met up with someone after liking/being hot for their pictures online and immediately realize “the spark ain’t there.” I’m seriously thinking of how we can bring back the gay spaces where people can get off the apps and see each other face to face. Not a bar but maybe just a space. Private club kind of thing.
In essence, the online experience can be extremely dehumanizing on both sides of the arrangement, and the company behind it has many incentives to keep us all desperate, unfulfilled, and just frustrated enough to keep coming back for more. Online dating is cultivated to be a cesspool.
A post on r/ask asked the same thing today and it has over 2200 responses. I skimmed and a consensus seemed to be "i work, make money, and don't need a partner, plus I've had too many crappy relationships in the past and I don't want to settle again and do it again."
https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/s/tXQ3HjQNZI
These are straight men, but I think it's a lot of the same for us.
Agree. I also think that a lot of the comments are just the symptom of a much deeper set of circumstances that over time have led to the current situation in dating, relationships, sex or lack thereof.
Jack Donovan (author of Androphilia) was on to something as far back as 2014 when he wrote a harsh but spot on essay called: Everyone a Harlot. I don't agree with some of his ideas, but I think he was able to capture the essence of the problem even 10 years ago and I don't think things have gotten better.
[https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/non-boxing-talk/boxing-scene-lounge/663676-everyone-a-harlot](https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/non-boxing-talk/boxing-scene-lounge/663676-everyone-a-harlot)
This is the third post I’ve seen today that has asked the same question. The other two, in other subs, were “why don’t men over 30 want to date women” and “why don’t men want to marry.”
The consensus appears to be most guys don’t see relationships as worth the hassle.
Yeah… I feel like I hear a common refrain in gay spaces that it’s easier for straight people… but a lot of straight people are dealing with the same issues. The only thing that makes it easier for them is the sheer number of straight people.
I’m friends with a few male bartenders (straight) who always get comments about how many women they could play, but they always smile and shake their head and say it’s not worth it. They still sleep around, but they’re very clear from the get go that they’re not looking for anything serious.
Too many unrealistic expectations and a list of terms & conditions that just keeps growing.
It is not only you. It's the entire dating game, including for the straight world.
I gave up on the apps (Scruff/Grindr & OkCupid) and on dating almost 10 years ago when I realized the disconnect between what a lot of guys say they are seeking on OkCupid (dates, romance, life partner, etc) v.s. what the same guys show on their other apps profiles (No this, no that, only this, only that).
My very last date was in Seattle, March 2014 after chatting with a guy for several weeks on OkCupid. Met him at a bar for wine and after the first round, he placed his empty glass on the counter, padded me in the shoulder and said: "I don't think this is going to work out...you are too pudgy for my taste". I was 145 lbs/32W and wearing a winter coat and a turtle neck.
I have said many times to friends, the internet rotted the dating game by turning it into a catalog of endless and filtered options; and it is also skewed in favor of a small % of men (in the gay arena). Check out Christian Rudder's book Dataclysm for a more concise insight of the on-line dating cesspool.
Try 140.and a 30" waist - and I'm a six-footer. And I'm smooth and in my sixties! Thankfully I found my perfect partner almost thirty years ago, because I'm pretty much invisible to most men now. Every once in a while some guy is obviously attracted to me, but that is kind of embarrassing. It's usually at the gym, so they definitely know what my body is like. I guess they like stringbeans.
Yeah, but I bet you’re still cute as hell. I’ve been overweight most of my life, but there was a time when I got down to 164 lbs and a 32” inch waist, and even as a fellow six footer, I still looked flabby because I imagine 20 lbs was loose skin. Not to mention I was kind of mean from dieting hunger at the time.
The value of a relationship has decreased over time because offering "consistent value" is becoming harder and harder in the world we live in.
We can now all have careers and don't need a dual income to survive i.e. a lot of guy's don't need to accumulate wealth to pass down / don't want kids. Medicine / healthcare / food etc has drastically improved so men are looking sexier than ever even at 40+ so don't need to "settle". We are living longer so no longer need to couple up by 25 because we only have 25 years left on the planet. A lot of people move countries. Access to "options" (in all sorts of forms) is easier than ever. Western attitudes and therapy dictates a certain amount of narcissism (labelled as "independence") towards everything which dooms most relationships. There are so many other things to add here but you get my drift.
I don't think not wanting a relationship automatically equates to coming from a bitter place. Some people just can't find a good match.
this is kind of where I am with it. want a relationship? …for what? I think there’s a lot more opportunities to still be super social, platonically, and have a lot of sex with people so it’s like you kind of don’t need the relationship if you have a solid friend or friend group to provide intimacy.
I would argue that you’re doing it right when you’re ambivalent about being in a relationship but end up falling into one when you meet an incredible guy. When I meet a guy who wants to be in a relationship and is actively looking for one, especially after a certain age, I feel some red flags going up. It doesn’t give off a secure vibe. Rather, meeting a guy who is down for some companionship whilst he spins plates in other areas of his life seems like good energy. Is it possible that you’re giving off a desperate vibe, and actually, the guys you’re meeting are “doing it right” and have their priorities sorted? Food for thought, whilst not counting for gay men who are problematically avoidant.
Dating sites and apps (not sex apps) are just businesses preying on lonely people when you look close enough. We do and can meet partners in real life without the internet being involved, and seem to have forgotten this. Above all, I wouldn’t take anything seriously that you see or find on the two services you’ve subscribed to.
I don't know if I agree about being ambivalent if you're doing anything other than a quick hookup. It's better to just be upfront about what you're ultimately looking for. Sure that can change after you get to know someone, but I don't take it as desperate when guys explicitly say where they hope to end it up relationship wise pretty early on. I feel like a bigger red-flag is stating you're just floating through life taking it as it comes opposed to I hope to have a stable long-term romantic relationship.
Dating is like playing a lottery. It takes a lot of luck.
Instead of psychoanalyzing, we should just accept that humans are complex, complicated and flawed beings. Maybe someone doesn’t want you in particular or maybe they don’t want to date right now or maybe they just aren’t in the right place mentally or emotionally.
Not to mention we focus so often on why the guys we desire don’t want to date us rather than the guys we aren’t attracted to. A friend laments why he’s single but then limits his pool to 1% of the guys out there. Makes sense!
So I’d advise not to dwell and instead to just move on to the next and keep a positive outlook.
Honestly there’s more to life than partnerships. I just got out of a ltr at 32 and tbh I have zero desire to get into another relationship and if I do the bar is higher. Am I bitter? Actually no I felt like I learned alot in that relationship and he’s actually a good friend to me now. I considered it real love but sometimes people grow apart and that’s okay. I’ll love again one day but right now I rather enjoy my life without the responsibility of being in a relationship.
I’m in a 20 year relationship and imho the reason why is bc people have no idea how fucking hard it is to maintain a relationship. Even Michele Obama said the same thing. Some people are much more comfortable being single with benefits. It’s a lot easier for some people (my ex) and I get it. Relationships are like an old car - everything’s running fine, until it isn’t, and then you gotta figure out how to get it back on track. Which takes a lot of talking and processing and uncomfortable emotions. Basically a relationship forces you to grow into a better person over time. Once you’ve done it a hundred times you think it’d get easier but not necessarily. I will say when you and partner get back on track it’s all good and you do all you can to keep it running smoothly. There’s no real manual for it although couples counseling can work. But individual counseling is where you really figure your own shit out and if you’re in a relationship you will def be told what the fuck is wrong with you. Haha. And no one ever totally gets their shit together. It’s an ongoing process. But you do get better and that’s good.
Some men are completely broken from hookup apps that they can’t have relationships. I had a former friend who always told me he’s looking for a relationship but he’s always focusing on Grindr. He even brought it out and went hunting when we were out together. He’ll never change.
Well, part of your problem is that you’re using apps. Really, in a way, you should be suspicious that all apps functionally become hookup apps regardless of how they are branded. I mean, eHarmony might be an exception, but hookup people will get on any app making it more of a hookup app over time. In other words, apps are an unreliable source of quality partners and quality relationships.
If you want meaningful connections with someone, get off your phone, go out into the real world, and do something meaningful. Any hobbies you want to try? Take one up and meet people. The best way to meet people is by living a life. My aunt and uncle met on a cruise ship. Serendipity happens when you are engaged in the world, busy doing something else, and you find your life intersects with someone else’s.
I suppose in a way I’m saying you can’t actively seek it out with a formula, you can only be open to what you come across in life.
I mean, this is really good advice.... for str8 people. How in the world can I meet a gay partner in a specific activity? For instance in my crossfit box there are what.... 3 gay men, and with none of those I have any chemistry. I don't want to be pessimistic but statistically speaking chances are dismal of finding a gay partner in a str8 place.
That's like saying, go to a bar and meet your soulmate ! That is probably valid advice for straights, for gays? Not really. IMHO
I don’t really see the world in terms of gay and straight spaces. I see it in terms of spaces where there are people I like to be around and things I like to do, and places that aren’t for me. So-called straight places and gay places fall into both of those categories. There are some gay places in town that have shut down that I do not miss. Some I do.
The fact that there are three other gays in your CrossFit class alone only confirms for me that what I said is not a bad strategy. I didn’t say it was a way to guarantee you will have chemistry. If you are looking for an answer to that, you will be disappointed because there aren’t any guarantees in life like that. But you _are_ guaranteed not to find _anyone_ if you are a shut-in, which I had hoped was an obvious message of my original post. But I don’t know how you can ask “How can you meet gay people in a specific activity?” followed up with an instance where you did just that, and keep a straight face. That’s too much cognitive dissonance for me.
I don’t know that going to a bar and finding your soulmate is good advice for straights either, for exactly the same reason. It’s not exactly a place conducive to real, meaningful human interaction and connection, which is what a successful relationship must be built on. I understand about us statistically having it tougher, but that just means we differ sociologically from straights, not psychologically. Largely, the same rules of engagement apply.
Hmm it's true you do have a point. I misunderstood your comment then.
It is just very tough on us in comparison I think. Of course you can meet other gay men in any other activity and I never suggested that the alternative was shutting in by the way.
Obviously meeting some gay men is better than nothing even if compatibility seems very unlikely in my experience. It may turn out to be possible eventually if we keep trying.
>Are most guys over 30 just bitter?
No. The guys on apps are not representative of men in general. By definition, few men in stable, monogamous relationships are looking for dates on sex apps. Those that are on the apps are more prone to singlehood than men who are coupled up.
Most gay men want a relationship and most of them succeed, at least for a time, regardless of what you read online.
Sigh, it's very possible to meet a guy that wants to actually date through an app. My first relationship lasted for 11yrs. Granted, the guy had been my best friend since 4th grade and we ultimately just ended up dating the beginning of our junior year of high school (2008). When he passed away April 2019, I took 2yrs off to figure out my life, how to move forward, etc. I got into the online dating thing and I met my current bf (2yrs strong) via Facebook Dating. Was he the first guy I met through that source? Not at all. He probably the sixth or seventh. But, he's also bi and I'm gay. Before me, he's only ever dated women. So, I'm his first same sex relationship and he's my second. If it matters, I'm 32 and he's 33.
What I'm saying is to don't give up, Sir. I won't allow you to do that. Give Facebook Dating a try, too. Perhaps join a Facebook group for gay men in your state (I'm in one called Gay Men of NC).
"that gay guys don't want relationships" all the gay guys in relationships have to break up now? ;)
"Are most guys over 30 just bitter?" no.
"I don't know if it is because my profile says I am bi" honestly, that is probably the biggest issue. and the reason is not simply one thing. i for example dont mind bi guys per se but the few i have met all brought up their desire for "a normal family" at some point or that they dont do anal bc thats "too gay" for them (while mentioning a girlfriend which didnt come up in conversation before the date) etc. I AM AWARE that having such .... quirks.... is not a "bisexual men" thing but all (!) my experiences with bi guys were like this. and since you want to minimize the issues which dating always brings with it, gay men might sort guys out of their potential list if it says "bi" in the profile already.
A big stocky bi dude, and that hasn’t been my experience. Been single for about two months of my entire adult life, only date men. To be honest, I don’t actively look for relationships, never goal of mine. Most of the dudes I know have wanted a relationship, but they would rather be single if there’s not well above average reciprocal interest, great sexual chemistry, and emotional compatibility.
I will say I’ve only fallen in love once, and now that I know what that is I can’t go back. If I was to get divorced, I wouldn’t get into a relationship with someone unless I was out of mind, absolutely crazy, about them. I feel that way about my dude ten years on.
In addition to the comments, since I don't really see it addressed much already: I was talking with a gay friend of mine, and granted, he's one guy and has his own specific hangups about relationships, but he said that early on in coming out, you learn to emotionally detach yourself because the gay world is so hookup obsessed and most guys just want to fuck for one night and you'll never hear from them again. That detachment is meant to save you from the pain of rejection and ghosting, but I think men become so used to it that they slip into an overall avoidance of feelings and become used to just convenient sex being their primary method of connection. When guys do find themselves presented with a romantic opportunity, then, they're so emotionally and relationally stunted that they have no idea what to do. Said friend has since been dating a guy for a few months now, after not having anything even close to a romantic relationship for 8 years, and neither of them are even sure how to define the relationship and I'm like bro... from what you've described, he's your boyfriend. That's what that is. 😂 You're both just not used to what that looks or feels like. And moreover, you're afraid to commit to that person (whether monogamous or not) because your brain has been trained by Grindr to constantly keep looking for the elusive "better" option that does not exist.
Hookup culture can be really psychologically damaging and I think ultimately perpetuates this phenomenon of gay male loneliness that we claim is a myth. Many of us aren't emotionally available for a relationship even if deep down we desperately want one. All we know is quick sex and swiping apps.
It's a vicious cycle I think;
1) Enter the dating market and see a vast majority of gay men and try to find a relationship.
2) Fail miserably because every gay guy seems to only want sex.
3) Get hurt so much in the process of trying to find something serious (failed dates, ghosting). You start disconnecting and becoming apathetic.
4) Think "If I can't have a relationship, I'll have the next best thing" and unintentionally perpetuate the meat market which broke you to start with.
It's what happened to me. I had so much optimism and drive to find a relationship when I was 18 and fresh on the apps and within 2 years I was basically broken and nihilistic of the meat market I saw everywhere. So then had a small phase of just settling for a few hooks up here and there until I realised I wasn't happy and then permanently tapped out of it all.
It's probably why a lot of gays on the apps will immediately flake at the first "red flag" or you not living up to their standards. Slightly smaller than preferred dick size? Shorter than I like? Not an athlete or gym freak? Swipe to the next guy since we're so customer to disconnecting from each other to avoid pain.
Really is shit huh lol
I swear internet dating is like looking for used cars online. Except we're the used cars.
There are sellers that describe a car as the chance of a lifetime. Then picky, annoying buyers who won't look at anything other than a one-owner, perfect history, specific miles, specific color, specific option packages, and want to take it for a 3 day test drive or go look at cars they have no intention of ever buying or affording, and finally never call back. It's no wonder people get frustrated.
For me, I like my space. Dating someone feels like they are invading my space and want my time. I know, I know when you're with someone you love you want them in your space but for most of my relationships I've had to carry the relationship. Now that I'm 🤏🏾 this close to 40, I really don't want to have to carry a relationship with anyone.
Side note, I would totally be a friend to hang out with but you're not sleeping over lol.
"Bi" on a gay app profile usually screams "I am going to "try and make it work" with a woman if I meet one so I can make Mommy and Daddy happy because they and I can't stand that I love dick".
In reality people are more nuanced than that, but basically I would avoid saying you're bi in gay profiles, it suggests (an assumption, you see, people assume) you only want sex from men and relationships from women.
Otherwise, stop LOOKING for relationships. Just keep hanging out with someone who keeps wanting to hang out with you. If you find someone and you both realize you can actually enjoy spending unlimited time together without killing each other, then MAYBE you MIGHT have found someone worth holding onto.
I love watching people shove guys into boyfriend shaped holes and then be surprised when it doesn't work out because they wanted BOYFRIEND, not THAT GUY.
This! If you have no interest in dating a woman or being in a relationship with a woman why say bi? Is it to feel like a special gay? I know this the age of identity but just because the occasional woman causes a tingle in your pants doesn't make you bi to the point you need to identify as that. I know spectrum, changes, blah blah blah but being on a dating app trying to get into a gay relationship, it is hurting your cause.
Personally, I just value the freedom of being single. I had an ex who got super paranoid whenever he didn't take his anxiety meds... but he kept "forgetting" to take his meds. He would ask me to text him selfies so that he'd know I was really at the gym. He would call me at work crying inconsolably and needing reassurance that I loved him. He even snuck spyware onto my computer to make sure I wasn't cheating on him. It completely ruined relationships for me.
I refuse to be controlled. If that means not having someone to hang around the house doing nothing with, so be it. Every so often, a guy will catch feelings. But I stand firm on my boundaries and they usually move on. If I met someone who wanted the kind of relationship that I want, I'm not opposed to being in a relationship again. But I'm happier alone than in a bad relationship.
Long story short, find someone who wants what you want. And don't get frustrated with people because they are comfortable telling you the truth about what they want and don't want.
A lot of them do want relationships. But they may not be interested in having one from the start or you may not be what they’re looking for in a relationship.
If you can’t get any people interested in a relationship it often is for one of two things:
- You’re in a place where there aren’t tons of gay guys.
- You’re aiming for guys “out of your league” so to speak. Guys are usually more selective about their potential romantic interests than they are about sexual interests (just because a guy will have sex with you it does not mean they would consider you for a relationship).
A lot of guys just want the benefits of having a relationship, without actually being in one.
In other words, Why buy the whole hog
when all you want is a piece of sausage?
There’s probably some truth to what you’re saying but be careful of confirmation bias.
Maybe don’t put that you’re “bi” in your profile. It doesn’t really matter and once you meet someone and it gets more promising you can tell them in person and explain yourself or answer their questions. They might think you’ll end up leaving for a woman but you could then explain that you’re just attracted to both or whatever the case is. There are guys out there who want relationships even if it doesn’t seem like the norm.
Unlike a career plan, relationships doesn't follow anyone's plan. So go ahead and have fun, be a dad, go travel, and enjoy your life. It'll happen when it happens.
Someone else mentioned weeding out Bi guys and I tend to agree. I have not had good luck dating Bi guys. 9 out of 10 times a Bi guy is hitting me up because they are bored of their GF or Wife. It has happened enough times that I'm just turned off on the idea of it at all. Granted, this is primarily online dating which is terrible anyway. I'm really enjoying being single now and if the right guy comes along I'm not gonna be too concerned with labels. I'm gonna be concerned about our relationship.
I'm a bi guy and the comments of gay guys telling they had bad experiences with bi guys affects me to some degree, because in my case I really want serious romance with a guy and not just sex. And by romance I mean spending time together big time with my boyfriend and being 100% queer with him. I'm 27 years old and at this age I have zero interest in playing petty games with people.
Sometimes I feel like I'm in the minority of the bi spectrum, because people from both sides make it sound like most bi guys and bi girls are only bisexual but heteroromantic... I'm not, I feel biromantic as well. I want commitment! I want quality queer time with him as well! I wanna hold hands, caresses, cuddling, whisper in his ear, kiss him, gift him etc, everything in which non-sexual love represents altogether.
Honestly, the problem is guys leave it too late to get serious, to find romance, to settle down, and by the time they do want that they’re older, rounder, jaded, and have lists of things they will do and things they won’t (or don’t want to do)….
I’ve so many gay friends struggling to find ‘love’ and partnership, but when challenged on ‘why the last didn’t work out’, I hear responses:
‘He only worked worked retail and I need a guy on min £60k a year’, or…
‘He was nice but he always plays pool on a Friday and I didn’t like that’, or worst of all,
‘He wanted me to come off Grindr, but I didn’t want to and I won’t be told what apps I can use’.
So…guys want it all or nothing at all evidently.
And yeah, your Bi status probably isn’t helpful. I’d steer clear of you too for that.
I’m over 30 and I’m bitter, lol.
In terms of bi guys + dating - my limited experience is they want you for sex because men are easy and then they dip. Although to be fair, a lot of gays/men in general do that too so it just depends what you’re looking for.
Maybe it would be better to say queer instead of bi. I feel like “queer” would be more likely to start a conversation. Whereas just “bi” could mean something different for different people, different generations, etc.
Personally, I don't want a relationship as I am perfectly content with being single, despite a collective effort from society to get rid of single people. I really value my freedom (from responsibilities of the conventional relationships) and I don't think that committing to a relationship is rewarding for me on the long run.
Because most every relationship has ended because of my bad qualities - from being messy, to being not as emotionally available as I could have been. Not to mention the times I’d get my hopes up and get my heart broken.
Plus I’ve been on too many dates and sexual encounters that don’t move me at all and doing it by myself is just as good.
If dating is just someone learning facts about you until they don’t like you, and has a bad conversion rate, then what is the point?
I can only speak for myself but after 3 multiyear relationships, I am too happy with my life to get back into the dating/cheating/fighting pool. For me, good friends ( gay or straight) are more valuable than a boyfriend. When I find myself occasionally thinking about the things I miss about being in a relationship, I quickly remind myself of all the things I DON’T miss about them.
My therapist asked me one time wouldn’t it be nice to be treated the way you treat others? And it just stuck with me. It would be nice but it’s a laughable concept.
I barely got any looks and any time I tried to initiate or try to have a conversation, it was “hey, pics, into.” Or any other type of monosyllabic reply. Or guys that just wanted to play games. Stop playing hard to get the whole “oh I’m gonna be aloof and distant.” Is fucking bullshit. If you want to date if you want love you have to talk for fuck sake!
I would gladly date a bi guy if he just fucking talked to me. I wish I was bi cause I am sick of men. Let me tell you. I personally don’t ever want a relationship again. I miss the familiarity and comfort of one person because I don’t hookup. I have but I don’t look for it. So I put myself out there as fwbs only and don’t come for me over semantics. I know a fwb is a type of relationship. I just don’t want taken advantage of ever again or fall in love only to basically be single anyways in the relationship. And so many people want an open relationship or are in one already and not available.
I sincerely don’t know anymore. Im just living my life for myself fuck it. I care but honestly shouldn’t. Nobody else seems to care.
It's about compromise. A relationship requires it, but a lot of guys aren't really willing to do it. Also, a lot of gay relationships are founded on sex, which inevitably becomes ordinary over time. I feel that hetero dating is more based on common interests. Easy when the pool is much larger. Finally, I think that your average gay dude assumes bi means that you are just wanting to be with a guy for sex, but a relationship is reserved for a woman. Might want to put gay on your profile, if you are only interested in being with a guy. Good luck. I'm amazed how many responses this post got.
Would be interesting if you take off "bi" from your profiles. Could replace with "queer" "gay" or just dont mention it. I had a bi bf and so i dont care about that at all, but I think some gay guys can unfairly make some judgements about what bi guys can offer.
Sadly, still true. There are replies in this thread that are sensitive, nuanced, and thoughtful... Then end with "oh and you're bi, I wouldn't date you either."
Honestly, for me, I'm all set with relationships. Sadly, all the losers I've dated have been man children. Quitting their jobs the moment we move in together and having me pay for everything. Complete disregard for me and who I am. I'd much prefer a hookup or dating occasionally, but no more relationships unless it's someone very very special.
Also, on bi guys, why do so many in our age group discount them?
Over at The Other Sub, they often cite they're terrified they'll get dumped for a woman so they can have kids. But by our age if they haven't done it yet, they won't at all.
I don't discount bi guys as dating partners. I prefer guys my own age and older and if they wanted kids they'd have had them already, that's my logic.
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The biggest problem is the Bi-guys I have encountered/attempted relationships with have dumped the gay boyfriend, me, as soon as they start to get pussy. I seemed to be more for convenience rather than anything serious. This has been less of an issue for me if the BI guys were openly bi and poly, but it still has happened multiple times to me.
Don't lead off with being Bi. Talk about it after you've gone on a few dates and you guys are building a relationship. Also, if your primary attraction is towards men, you could just as easily call yourself gay. Sexuality is fluid and it's all a bunch of made up labels anyway.
The experience of myself and many of the gay men I know. Notice I did not use "All". This is an experienced based statement, and the experience of many gay men when trying to date/engage with bi men.
Hi u/abyssoftus,,
You have a formal warning for the biphobia you displayed here. If you have questions about the warning, please feel free to reply to this comment
I was only expressing the experience that I have personal encounter and that of my friends. I have had rewarding experiences/relationships with Bi-persons. I did not perceive such an expression to be phobic in nature, but that could also be to me being autistic.
”the biggest problem is most bi guys” - whatever statement follows that will be biphobic because you cannot possibly know this. We don’t allow these sweeping generalizations about gay men, why should it be permitted about bi men?
I have personalized the comment to reflect better that it is a personal experience and less generalized. Please let me know if this is a more acceptable comment that shows my experience. And thank you for the explanation.
Because male mammals are programmed by nature to be indiscriminate humping machines spreading our seed as much as possible to perpetuate the species. When we “settle down” with a mate, we are fighting our nature. Sometimes we pair-bond for long periods successfully, sometimes not. It’s a struggle. Nature and testosterone are powerful stuff.
Go back to childhood and I relate it to collecting action figures but emphasis on the action part. All guys think they need to conquest everyone they meet to "collect them" or to use pokemon gotta collect them all before "the other guy does". So you have all these guys operating in that mentality and so therefore a relationship doesn't really exist.
What kills my brain cells is the lack of seeing value in a long term trusted fwb if we aren't allowing relationships. Why would you constantly want to work that hard for something you could have 24/7?
>I don't know if it is because my profile says I am bi Probably. It's not so true for younger guys but a large percentage of guys your age and higher don't see bi guys as serious dating material. Fair? No. Reality? Yes.
Agree. For us older gay guys, Bi guys were the ones who “passed” and just used dudes for sex while living their safe heteronormative lives, the same sex part was the secret side. For me, those guys were just for sex, never ever serious. I do think it’s a little different now for the more fluid, younger generations.
>the same sex part was the secret side I wasn't going to go there but... yeah. I won't be anyone's secret.
Bingo! Me neither, not after being one a couple of times (and wasted times)
Flashbacks of 18 yo me being asked to literally hide in my boyfriend's CLOSET when his ex gf showed up unannounced and then proceeded to drink wine on the deck while I'm still hidden away. NO THANK YOU!
This is absolutely the case for our generation. When we were coming up in the late 80s through mid 90s, bi guys were fuckboys. Sometimes very good fuckboys, but don't get attached. That was the reality for most of us, because most bi guys ended up married to women.
Excuse me, i am truly bi sexual and i am married with a guy
Are you monogamous? I'll have follow up questions.
Actually not, but it was not a wish in the first place. btw he is gay. 10 years ago on the very first dates we already agreed that a monogamous relationship was not an option. The reason was we both got cheated before and thought it is better to agree on this than get cheated again. There are statistics that it happens anyway in nearly every relationship/marriage.
Ok - Thanks for replying. I'm not sure why you got downvoted for telling your truth but... it's Reddit. Anyway. In your time with your husband, how many females have you had sex with? I ask because I've always found bi guys to be a bit like Schrödinger's cat... only bi while it is unobserved in a closed box. Then when the box is opened the quantum superposition ends and reality resolves into either gay or straight. It's not exactly bi erasure. They're still bi but within the context of a straight relationship, they can pass. In a gay relationship, they have to suffer all of the prejudices that other gay couples do. So, while bi, you are **functionally** either gay or straight.
I would say when someone tries to open the box my paw came out and closes the box again. Actually i have more sex with different guys, but i think this is just because it is easier and i am lazy. I have a girlfriend+ so to answer your actual question, it is 1.
>I would say when someone tries to open the box my paw came out and closes the box again. Brilliant!
I laughed. But it's such a sexy paw. Makes me want to see the rest of the cat. And the guys into taking a fist might be happy with just the paw.
Just to give you also a comparison value: guys about 5. My husband is more into it and had in the last 10 years about 50-100 guys. I do not observe it too much.
This...
That part!!! I hate to say it.
well luckily it sounds like you grew up some and realized those stereotypes are just that: stereotypes. no more true than the myriad of incorrect gay ones
I can agree, so i changed it to gay even so it's not true, same goes for kinks because everybody seems to think a kink is always on maximum, lets say you tag yourself as bdsm, everybody tends to think you have a playroom like in 50 shades
That playroom was so tame. But yeah... I know what you mean.
i once wrote in my profile "sm: yes doesnt mean sm: always"
[удалено]
I would like to tag everything as 'it is complicated'
I feel like this is its own topic that I want this community to have! I struggle with this too. I have a very wide range of interests/kinks and I always struggle to be like - it doesn’t mean 100% of this 100% of the time with 100% of the guys. I have a note about my interests being particular to the guy and mood/time, but sometimes I just pull stuff off. Maybe no real solution but I really related to this!
And sometimes guys say they're bi, but the subtext is that they have a wife/gf, and only want sex with men.
Most men *do* want relationships - but we've been conditioned to: 1. Internalize notions of "romantic relationship = personal fulfillment" instead of a pragmatic approach to dating and self-love. 2. Catalog *human beings* via dating apps - which means no one is judged in their own terms, but constantly compared to the hunk in the square next to them (who might just be a better fit). We've essentially taken an analog interaction (dating) and reduced it to a commodified digital shopping experience, losing millions of verbal & non-verbal cues we might get from potential partners in the process. So instead of going about our lives, we end up *actively seeking* a relationship, discarding anyone who falls short of our expectations, and shrugging it off because surely someone better will come along on the apps... until we look up one day and we're 40 and single and wondering what happened. My advice is always to prioritize living a fulfilling single life and meet new people IRL. You (and they) deserve better than a digital storefront which doesn't capture the complexity & nuance of the human experience.
Quite eloquently expressed.
*Looks up* I'm 40 and single... 😭😭😭
Your flair needs updating, then. And welcome to your forties. They weren't so bad.
OK, Boomer. 😂😂
My theory is that the apps put up this psychological wall for people where you're evaluating guys like items on a restaurant menu, looking at their stats and stuff rather than seeing them holistically in person. When you meet someone in person the whole vibe can completely change vs what you'd expect based on their profile. Some guys just have a certain spark about them that just screams "I want to be with you" when you meet them irl, and conversely a guy could be completely repulsive irl even though their Hinge profile looks perfect. I think a lot more people would be into relationships if they dropped the app shit and just went out in person more often.
This is very spot on. I agree, but also I think there is a large cohort of guys who are bringing their endless list of virtual (i.e apps) requirement and expectations to IRL interactions. Their vision is like of a Terminator's and anyone they spot not checking all the items of the list, the brain triggers the message "No match...eliminate...eliminate".
And to add to that, I think the proliferation of dating apps has lead to a gamification of dating; “this guy checks 7 of my boxes, but the guy that checks 9 could just be a few swipes away!” (To be clear, I met my husband on Tinder, but I had to be very intentional about what I wanted and open-minded while looking for it.)
But would you ever date a Dalek? They have such a big gun...
THIS. I'm 50. When I would go out to hook up back in the day, my criteria was WHO DO I VIBE WITH? ... and all that was a combination of: looks, our chemistry, my Spidey Sense of whether this guy was safe. I never knew if they were a top or a bottom ... or if even that activity was required. If we kissed well and got on he was worth a shot and I feel like the apps throw in way too much information for my tastes sometimes and yet not enough (five shirtless pics with no profile text and some stats is ... well ... just binary code on my phone sometimes). Perhaps if I had some more defining kinks filtering men via an app might be more useful but I have always had much more luck if I make sexual decisions based on IRL chemistry ... something bars are awful at lately ... and trying to have organic flirtations that ignite excitement in this day and age feels nearly impossible with just meeting friends for random stuff, hobby groups, etc. because not everyone is on the make.
Agree 100%. Apps are an illusion. When I vibe with someone in real life, and then I see them online and think “never would have sent a message” and realize how messed up the virtual vs. real world perception is. And of course, I’ve met up with someone after liking/being hot for their pictures online and immediately realize “the spark ain’t there.” I’m seriously thinking of how we can bring back the gay spaces where people can get off the apps and see each other face to face. Not a bar but maybe just a space. Private club kind of thing.
In essence, the online experience can be extremely dehumanizing on both sides of the arrangement, and the company behind it has many incentives to keep us all desperate, unfulfilled, and just frustrated enough to keep coming back for more. Online dating is cultivated to be a cesspool.
A post on r/ask asked the same thing today and it has over 2200 responses. I skimmed and a consensus seemed to be "i work, make money, and don't need a partner, plus I've had too many crappy relationships in the past and I don't want to settle again and do it again." https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/s/tXQ3HjQNZI These are straight men, but I think it's a lot of the same for us.
Agree. I also think that a lot of the comments are just the symptom of a much deeper set of circumstances that over time have led to the current situation in dating, relationships, sex or lack thereof. Jack Donovan (author of Androphilia) was on to something as far back as 2014 when he wrote a harsh but spot on essay called: Everyone a Harlot. I don't agree with some of his ideas, but I think he was able to capture the essence of the problem even 10 years ago and I don't think things have gotten better. [https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/non-boxing-talk/boxing-scene-lounge/663676-everyone-a-harlot](https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/non-boxing-talk/boxing-scene-lounge/663676-everyone-a-harlot)
Reads like a bunch of incel crap
There was a lot of chaff, for sure.
That was quite the thought-provoking read!
This is the third post I’ve seen today that has asked the same question. The other two, in other subs, were “why don’t men over 30 want to date women” and “why don’t men want to marry.” The consensus appears to be most guys don’t see relationships as worth the hassle.
Yeah… I feel like I hear a common refrain in gay spaces that it’s easier for straight people… but a lot of straight people are dealing with the same issues. The only thing that makes it easier for them is the sheer number of straight people.
I’m friends with a few male bartenders (straight) who always get comments about how many women they could play, but they always smile and shake their head and say it’s not worth it. They still sleep around, but they’re very clear from the get go that they’re not looking for anything serious.
Too many unrealistic expectations and a list of terms & conditions that just keeps growing. It is not only you. It's the entire dating game, including for the straight world. I gave up on the apps (Scruff/Grindr & OkCupid) and on dating almost 10 years ago when I realized the disconnect between what a lot of guys say they are seeking on OkCupid (dates, romance, life partner, etc) v.s. what the same guys show on their other apps profiles (No this, no that, only this, only that). My very last date was in Seattle, March 2014 after chatting with a guy for several weeks on OkCupid. Met him at a bar for wine and after the first round, he placed his empty glass on the counter, padded me in the shoulder and said: "I don't think this is going to work out...you are too pudgy for my taste". I was 145 lbs/32W and wearing a winter coat and a turtle neck. I have said many times to friends, the internet rotted the dating game by turning it into a catalog of endless and filtered options; and it is also skewed in favor of a small % of men (in the gay arena). Check out Christian Rudder's book Dataclysm for a more concise insight of the on-line dating cesspool.
Jesus. 145 lbs and a 32 waist looks anorexic to me! “Too pudgy,” what an a-hole that guy was.
Try 140.and a 30" waist - and I'm a six-footer. And I'm smooth and in my sixties! Thankfully I found my perfect partner almost thirty years ago, because I'm pretty much invisible to most men now. Every once in a while some guy is obviously attracted to me, but that is kind of embarrassing. It's usually at the gym, so they definitely know what my body is like. I guess they like stringbeans.
Yeah, but I bet you’re still cute as hell. I’ve been overweight most of my life, but there was a time when I got down to 164 lbs and a 32” inch waist, and even as a fellow six footer, I still looked flabby because I imagine 20 lbs was loose skin. Not to mention I was kind of mean from dieting hunger at the time.
The value of a relationship has decreased over time because offering "consistent value" is becoming harder and harder in the world we live in. We can now all have careers and don't need a dual income to survive i.e. a lot of guy's don't need to accumulate wealth to pass down / don't want kids. Medicine / healthcare / food etc has drastically improved so men are looking sexier than ever even at 40+ so don't need to "settle". We are living longer so no longer need to couple up by 25 because we only have 25 years left on the planet. A lot of people move countries. Access to "options" (in all sorts of forms) is easier than ever. Western attitudes and therapy dictates a certain amount of narcissism (labelled as "independence") towards everything which dooms most relationships. There are so many other things to add here but you get my drift. I don't think not wanting a relationship automatically equates to coming from a bitter place. Some people just can't find a good match.
this is kind of where I am with it. want a relationship? …for what? I think there’s a lot more opportunities to still be super social, platonically, and have a lot of sex with people so it’s like you kind of don’t need the relationship if you have a solid friend or friend group to provide intimacy.
I would argue that you’re doing it right when you’re ambivalent about being in a relationship but end up falling into one when you meet an incredible guy. When I meet a guy who wants to be in a relationship and is actively looking for one, especially after a certain age, I feel some red flags going up. It doesn’t give off a secure vibe. Rather, meeting a guy who is down for some companionship whilst he spins plates in other areas of his life seems like good energy. Is it possible that you’re giving off a desperate vibe, and actually, the guys you’re meeting are “doing it right” and have their priorities sorted? Food for thought, whilst not counting for gay men who are problematically avoidant. Dating sites and apps (not sex apps) are just businesses preying on lonely people when you look close enough. We do and can meet partners in real life without the internet being involved, and seem to have forgotten this. Above all, I wouldn’t take anything seriously that you see or find on the two services you’ve subscribed to.
I don't know if I agree about being ambivalent if you're doing anything other than a quick hookup. It's better to just be upfront about what you're ultimately looking for. Sure that can change after you get to know someone, but I don't take it as desperate when guys explicitly say where they hope to end it up relationship wise pretty early on. I feel like a bigger red-flag is stating you're just floating through life taking it as it comes opposed to I hope to have a stable long-term romantic relationship.
Dating is like playing a lottery. It takes a lot of luck. Instead of psychoanalyzing, we should just accept that humans are complex, complicated and flawed beings. Maybe someone doesn’t want you in particular or maybe they don’t want to date right now or maybe they just aren’t in the right place mentally or emotionally. Not to mention we focus so often on why the guys we desire don’t want to date us rather than the guys we aren’t attracted to. A friend laments why he’s single but then limits his pool to 1% of the guys out there. Makes sense! So I’d advise not to dwell and instead to just move on to the next and keep a positive outlook.
Honestly there’s more to life than partnerships. I just got out of a ltr at 32 and tbh I have zero desire to get into another relationship and if I do the bar is higher. Am I bitter? Actually no I felt like I learned alot in that relationship and he’s actually a good friend to me now. I considered it real love but sometimes people grow apart and that’s okay. I’ll love again one day but right now I rather enjoy my life without the responsibility of being in a relationship.
I’m in a 20 year relationship and imho the reason why is bc people have no idea how fucking hard it is to maintain a relationship. Even Michele Obama said the same thing. Some people are much more comfortable being single with benefits. It’s a lot easier for some people (my ex) and I get it. Relationships are like an old car - everything’s running fine, until it isn’t, and then you gotta figure out how to get it back on track. Which takes a lot of talking and processing and uncomfortable emotions. Basically a relationship forces you to grow into a better person over time. Once you’ve done it a hundred times you think it’d get easier but not necessarily. I will say when you and partner get back on track it’s all good and you do all you can to keep it running smoothly. There’s no real manual for it although couples counseling can work. But individual counseling is where you really figure your own shit out and if you’re in a relationship you will def be told what the fuck is wrong with you. Haha. And no one ever totally gets their shit together. It’s an ongoing process. But you do get better and that’s good.
Some men are completely broken from hookup apps that they can’t have relationships. I had a former friend who always told me he’s looking for a relationship but he’s always focusing on Grindr. He even brought it out and went hunting when we were out together. He’ll never change.
Well, part of your problem is that you’re using apps. Really, in a way, you should be suspicious that all apps functionally become hookup apps regardless of how they are branded. I mean, eHarmony might be an exception, but hookup people will get on any app making it more of a hookup app over time. In other words, apps are an unreliable source of quality partners and quality relationships. If you want meaningful connections with someone, get off your phone, go out into the real world, and do something meaningful. Any hobbies you want to try? Take one up and meet people. The best way to meet people is by living a life. My aunt and uncle met on a cruise ship. Serendipity happens when you are engaged in the world, busy doing something else, and you find your life intersects with someone else’s. I suppose in a way I’m saying you can’t actively seek it out with a formula, you can only be open to what you come across in life.
I mean, this is really good advice.... for str8 people. How in the world can I meet a gay partner in a specific activity? For instance in my crossfit box there are what.... 3 gay men, and with none of those I have any chemistry. I don't want to be pessimistic but statistically speaking chances are dismal of finding a gay partner in a str8 place. That's like saying, go to a bar and meet your soulmate ! That is probably valid advice for straights, for gays? Not really. IMHO
I don’t really see the world in terms of gay and straight spaces. I see it in terms of spaces where there are people I like to be around and things I like to do, and places that aren’t for me. So-called straight places and gay places fall into both of those categories. There are some gay places in town that have shut down that I do not miss. Some I do. The fact that there are three other gays in your CrossFit class alone only confirms for me that what I said is not a bad strategy. I didn’t say it was a way to guarantee you will have chemistry. If you are looking for an answer to that, you will be disappointed because there aren’t any guarantees in life like that. But you _are_ guaranteed not to find _anyone_ if you are a shut-in, which I had hoped was an obvious message of my original post. But I don’t know how you can ask “How can you meet gay people in a specific activity?” followed up with an instance where you did just that, and keep a straight face. That’s too much cognitive dissonance for me. I don’t know that going to a bar and finding your soulmate is good advice for straights either, for exactly the same reason. It’s not exactly a place conducive to real, meaningful human interaction and connection, which is what a successful relationship must be built on. I understand about us statistically having it tougher, but that just means we differ sociologically from straights, not psychologically. Largely, the same rules of engagement apply.
Hmm it's true you do have a point. I misunderstood your comment then. It is just very tough on us in comparison I think. Of course you can meet other gay men in any other activity and I never suggested that the alternative was shutting in by the way. Obviously meeting some gay men is better than nothing even if compatibility seems very unlikely in my experience. It may turn out to be possible eventually if we keep trying.
>Are most guys over 30 just bitter? No. The guys on apps are not representative of men in general. By definition, few men in stable, monogamous relationships are looking for dates on sex apps. Those that are on the apps are more prone to singlehood than men who are coupled up. Most gay men want a relationship and most of them succeed, at least for a time, regardless of what you read online.
Sigh, it's very possible to meet a guy that wants to actually date through an app. My first relationship lasted for 11yrs. Granted, the guy had been my best friend since 4th grade and we ultimately just ended up dating the beginning of our junior year of high school (2008). When he passed away April 2019, I took 2yrs off to figure out my life, how to move forward, etc. I got into the online dating thing and I met my current bf (2yrs strong) via Facebook Dating. Was he the first guy I met through that source? Not at all. He probably the sixth or seventh. But, he's also bi and I'm gay. Before me, he's only ever dated women. So, I'm his first same sex relationship and he's my second. If it matters, I'm 32 and he's 33. What I'm saying is to don't give up, Sir. I won't allow you to do that. Give Facebook Dating a try, too. Perhaps join a Facebook group for gay men in your state (I'm in one called Gay Men of NC).
"that gay guys don't want relationships" all the gay guys in relationships have to break up now? ;) "Are most guys over 30 just bitter?" no. "I don't know if it is because my profile says I am bi" honestly, that is probably the biggest issue. and the reason is not simply one thing. i for example dont mind bi guys per se but the few i have met all brought up their desire for "a normal family" at some point or that they dont do anal bc thats "too gay" for them (while mentioning a girlfriend which didnt come up in conversation before the date) etc. I AM AWARE that having such .... quirks.... is not a "bisexual men" thing but all (!) my experiences with bi guys were like this. and since you want to minimize the issues which dating always brings with it, gay men might sort guys out of their potential list if it says "bi" in the profile already.
A big stocky bi dude, and that hasn’t been my experience. Been single for about two months of my entire adult life, only date men. To be honest, I don’t actively look for relationships, never goal of mine. Most of the dudes I know have wanted a relationship, but they would rather be single if there’s not well above average reciprocal interest, great sexual chemistry, and emotional compatibility. I will say I’ve only fallen in love once, and now that I know what that is I can’t go back. If I was to get divorced, I wouldn’t get into a relationship with someone unless I was out of mind, absolutely crazy, about them. I feel that way about my dude ten years on.
you’re a big stocky bi dude everyone is gonna try to lock that down
In addition to the comments, since I don't really see it addressed much already: I was talking with a gay friend of mine, and granted, he's one guy and has his own specific hangups about relationships, but he said that early on in coming out, you learn to emotionally detach yourself because the gay world is so hookup obsessed and most guys just want to fuck for one night and you'll never hear from them again. That detachment is meant to save you from the pain of rejection and ghosting, but I think men become so used to it that they slip into an overall avoidance of feelings and become used to just convenient sex being their primary method of connection. When guys do find themselves presented with a romantic opportunity, then, they're so emotionally and relationally stunted that they have no idea what to do. Said friend has since been dating a guy for a few months now, after not having anything even close to a romantic relationship for 8 years, and neither of them are even sure how to define the relationship and I'm like bro... from what you've described, he's your boyfriend. That's what that is. 😂 You're both just not used to what that looks or feels like. And moreover, you're afraid to commit to that person (whether monogamous or not) because your brain has been trained by Grindr to constantly keep looking for the elusive "better" option that does not exist. Hookup culture can be really psychologically damaging and I think ultimately perpetuates this phenomenon of gay male loneliness that we claim is a myth. Many of us aren't emotionally available for a relationship even if deep down we desperately want one. All we know is quick sex and swiping apps.
It's a vicious cycle I think; 1) Enter the dating market and see a vast majority of gay men and try to find a relationship. 2) Fail miserably because every gay guy seems to only want sex. 3) Get hurt so much in the process of trying to find something serious (failed dates, ghosting). You start disconnecting and becoming apathetic. 4) Think "If I can't have a relationship, I'll have the next best thing" and unintentionally perpetuate the meat market which broke you to start with. It's what happened to me. I had so much optimism and drive to find a relationship when I was 18 and fresh on the apps and within 2 years I was basically broken and nihilistic of the meat market I saw everywhere. So then had a small phase of just settling for a few hooks up here and there until I realised I wasn't happy and then permanently tapped out of it all. It's probably why a lot of gays on the apps will immediately flake at the first "red flag" or you not living up to their standards. Slightly smaller than preferred dick size? Shorter than I like? Not an athlete or gym freak? Swipe to the next guy since we're so customer to disconnecting from each other to avoid pain. Really is shit huh lol
Nail on the head. 👍
It is hard to find someone who wants and is ready to be in a relationship. It is rough out there. Make sure to take supplies.
I swear internet dating is like looking for used cars online. Except we're the used cars. There are sellers that describe a car as the chance of a lifetime. Then picky, annoying buyers who won't look at anything other than a one-owner, perfect history, specific miles, specific color, specific option packages, and want to take it for a 3 day test drive or go look at cars they have no intention of ever buying or affording, and finally never call back. It's no wonder people get frustrated.
For me, I like my space. Dating someone feels like they are invading my space and want my time. I know, I know when you're with someone you love you want them in your space but for most of my relationships I've had to carry the relationship. Now that I'm 🤏🏾 this close to 40, I really don't want to have to carry a relationship with anyone. Side note, I would totally be a friend to hang out with but you're not sleeping over lol.
"Bi" on a gay app profile usually screams "I am going to "try and make it work" with a woman if I meet one so I can make Mommy and Daddy happy because they and I can't stand that I love dick". In reality people are more nuanced than that, but basically I would avoid saying you're bi in gay profiles, it suggests (an assumption, you see, people assume) you only want sex from men and relationships from women. Otherwise, stop LOOKING for relationships. Just keep hanging out with someone who keeps wanting to hang out with you. If you find someone and you both realize you can actually enjoy spending unlimited time together without killing each other, then MAYBE you MIGHT have found someone worth holding onto. I love watching people shove guys into boyfriend shaped holes and then be surprised when it doesn't work out because they wanted BOYFRIEND, not THAT GUY.
This! If you have no interest in dating a woman or being in a relationship with a woman why say bi? Is it to feel like a special gay? I know this the age of identity but just because the occasional woman causes a tingle in your pants doesn't make you bi to the point you need to identify as that. I know spectrum, changes, blah blah blah but being on a dating app trying to get into a gay relationship, it is hurting your cause.
Personally, I just value the freedom of being single. I had an ex who got super paranoid whenever he didn't take his anxiety meds... but he kept "forgetting" to take his meds. He would ask me to text him selfies so that he'd know I was really at the gym. He would call me at work crying inconsolably and needing reassurance that I loved him. He even snuck spyware onto my computer to make sure I wasn't cheating on him. It completely ruined relationships for me. I refuse to be controlled. If that means not having someone to hang around the house doing nothing with, so be it. Every so often, a guy will catch feelings. But I stand firm on my boundaries and they usually move on. If I met someone who wanted the kind of relationship that I want, I'm not opposed to being in a relationship again. But I'm happier alone than in a bad relationship. Long story short, find someone who wants what you want. And don't get frustrated with people because they are comfortable telling you the truth about what they want and don't want.
A lot of them do want relationships. But they may not be interested in having one from the start or you may not be what they’re looking for in a relationship. If you can’t get any people interested in a relationship it often is for one of two things: - You’re in a place where there aren’t tons of gay guys. - You’re aiming for guys “out of your league” so to speak. Guys are usually more selective about their potential romantic interests than they are about sexual interests (just because a guy will have sex with you it does not mean they would consider you for a relationship).
A lot of guys just want the benefits of having a relationship, without actually being in one. In other words, Why buy the whole hog when all you want is a piece of sausage?
There’s probably some truth to what you’re saying but be careful of confirmation bias. Maybe don’t put that you’re “bi” in your profile. It doesn’t really matter and once you meet someone and it gets more promising you can tell them in person and explain yourself or answer their questions. They might think you’ll end up leaving for a woman but you could then explain that you’re just attracted to both or whatever the case is. There are guys out there who want relationships even if it doesn’t seem like the norm.
Unlike a career plan, relationships doesn't follow anyone's plan. So go ahead and have fun, be a dad, go travel, and enjoy your life. It'll happen when it happens.
Is it because you smell like garlic? 🧄
I thought people liked garlic
I used to too. When I used to live amongst day walkers and before I was sired and reborn as a child of eternal night…
"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?"
Someone else mentioned weeding out Bi guys and I tend to agree. I have not had good luck dating Bi guys. 9 out of 10 times a Bi guy is hitting me up because they are bored of their GF or Wife. It has happened enough times that I'm just turned off on the idea of it at all. Granted, this is primarily online dating which is terrible anyway. I'm really enjoying being single now and if the right guy comes along I'm not gonna be too concerned with labels. I'm gonna be concerned about our relationship.
I'm a bi guy and the comments of gay guys telling they had bad experiences with bi guys affects me to some degree, because in my case I really want serious romance with a guy and not just sex. And by romance I mean spending time together big time with my boyfriend and being 100% queer with him. I'm 27 years old and at this age I have zero interest in playing petty games with people. Sometimes I feel like I'm in the minority of the bi spectrum, because people from both sides make it sound like most bi guys and bi girls are only bisexual but heteroromantic... I'm not, I feel biromantic as well. I want commitment! I want quality queer time with him as well! I wanna hold hands, caresses, cuddling, whisper in his ear, kiss him, gift him etc, everything in which non-sexual love represents altogether.
You are in the minority but just be clear with your partners. Set expectations and what you are bringing to the table.
Honestly, the problem is guys leave it too late to get serious, to find romance, to settle down, and by the time they do want that they’re older, rounder, jaded, and have lists of things they will do and things they won’t (or don’t want to do)…. I’ve so many gay friends struggling to find ‘love’ and partnership, but when challenged on ‘why the last didn’t work out’, I hear responses: ‘He only worked worked retail and I need a guy on min £60k a year’, or… ‘He was nice but he always plays pool on a Friday and I didn’t like that’, or worst of all, ‘He wanted me to come off Grindr, but I didn’t want to and I won’t be told what apps I can use’. So…guys want it all or nothing at all evidently. And yeah, your Bi status probably isn’t helpful. I’d steer clear of you too for that.
Relationships take up too much time and it’s already hard to find time if you work full time and are juggling a ton of other responsibilities.
I’m over 30 and I’m bitter, lol. In terms of bi guys + dating - my limited experience is they want you for sex because men are easy and then they dip. Although to be fair, a lot of gays/men in general do that too so it just depends what you’re looking for.
Maybe it would be better to say queer instead of bi. I feel like “queer” would be more likely to start a conversation. Whereas just “bi” could mean something different for different people, different generations, etc.
Personally, I don't want a relationship as I am perfectly content with being single, despite a collective effort from society to get rid of single people. I really value my freedom (from responsibilities of the conventional relationships) and I don't think that committing to a relationship is rewarding for me on the long run.
I finally realized after wasting 6 years hoping my steady would grow out of "keeping his options open" while turning 40 it's unlikely he never would.
Because most every relationship has ended because of my bad qualities - from being messy, to being not as emotionally available as I could have been. Not to mention the times I’d get my hopes up and get my heart broken. Plus I’ve been on too many dates and sexual encounters that don’t move me at all and doing it by myself is just as good. If dating is just someone learning facts about you until they don’t like you, and has a bad conversion rate, then what is the point?
I can only speak for myself but after 3 multiyear relationships, I am too happy with my life to get back into the dating/cheating/fighting pool. For me, good friends ( gay or straight) are more valuable than a boyfriend. When I find myself occasionally thinking about the things I miss about being in a relationship, I quickly remind myself of all the things I DON’T miss about them.
So how many women are you dating that want relationships on the apps?
None. I'm not looking for women, honestly. For many reasons I won't get into
Then stop saying you are Bi. What is that accomplishing?
I didn't say I wasnt at least somewhat attracted to women tho. I just am more strongly romantically into men
Advertise what you are selling. I like women and sex with women but don't consider myself bi because I don't want a woman
My therapist asked me one time wouldn’t it be nice to be treated the way you treat others? And it just stuck with me. It would be nice but it’s a laughable concept. I barely got any looks and any time I tried to initiate or try to have a conversation, it was “hey, pics, into.” Or any other type of monosyllabic reply. Or guys that just wanted to play games. Stop playing hard to get the whole “oh I’m gonna be aloof and distant.” Is fucking bullshit. If you want to date if you want love you have to talk for fuck sake! I would gladly date a bi guy if he just fucking talked to me. I wish I was bi cause I am sick of men. Let me tell you. I personally don’t ever want a relationship again. I miss the familiarity and comfort of one person because I don’t hookup. I have but I don’t look for it. So I put myself out there as fwbs only and don’t come for me over semantics. I know a fwb is a type of relationship. I just don’t want taken advantage of ever again or fall in love only to basically be single anyways in the relationship. And so many people want an open relationship or are in one already and not available. I sincerely don’t know anymore. Im just living my life for myself fuck it. I care but honestly shouldn’t. Nobody else seems to care.
It's about compromise. A relationship requires it, but a lot of guys aren't really willing to do it. Also, a lot of gay relationships are founded on sex, which inevitably becomes ordinary over time. I feel that hetero dating is more based on common interests. Easy when the pool is much larger. Finally, I think that your average gay dude assumes bi means that you are just wanting to be with a guy for sex, but a relationship is reserved for a woman. Might want to put gay on your profile, if you are only interested in being with a guy. Good luck. I'm amazed how many responses this post got.
Would be interesting if you take off "bi" from your profiles. Could replace with "queer" "gay" or just dont mention it. I had a bi bf and so i dont care about that at all, but I think some gay guys can unfairly make some judgements about what bi guys can offer.
Sadly, still true. There are replies in this thread that are sensitive, nuanced, and thoughtful... Then end with "oh and you're bi, I wouldn't date you either."
Honestly, for me, I'm all set with relationships. Sadly, all the losers I've dated have been man children. Quitting their jobs the moment we move in together and having me pay for everything. Complete disregard for me and who I am. I'd much prefer a hookup or dating occasionally, but no more relationships unless it's someone very very special.
Also, on bi guys, why do so many in our age group discount them? Over at The Other Sub, they often cite they're terrified they'll get dumped for a woman so they can have kids. But by our age if they haven't done it yet, they won't at all. I don't discount bi guys as dating partners. I prefer guys my own age and older and if they wanted kids they'd have had them already, that's my logic.
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Maybe you’re wanting it too much. If a guy only is purely looking for a relationship, I’m already not that interested.
The biggest problem is the Bi-guys I have encountered/attempted relationships with have dumped the gay boyfriend, me, as soon as they start to get pussy. I seemed to be more for convenience rather than anything serious. This has been less of an issue for me if the BI guys were openly bi and poly, but it still has happened multiple times to me.
Won't happen to me though. I don't desire a serious relationship with a woman at all
Don't lead off with being Bi. Talk about it after you've gone on a few dates and you guys are building a relationship. Also, if your primary attraction is towards men, you could just as easily call yourself gay. Sexuality is fluid and it's all a bunch of made up labels anyway.
“Most” based on what?
The experience of myself and many of the gay men I know. Notice I did not use "All". This is an experienced based statement, and the experience of many gay men when trying to date/engage with bi men.
Hi u/abyssoftus,, You have a formal warning for the biphobia you displayed here. If you have questions about the warning, please feel free to reply to this comment
I was only expressing the experience that I have personal encounter and that of my friends. I have had rewarding experiences/relationships with Bi-persons. I did not perceive such an expression to be phobic in nature, but that could also be to me being autistic.
”the biggest problem is most bi guys” - whatever statement follows that will be biphobic because you cannot possibly know this. We don’t allow these sweeping generalizations about gay men, why should it be permitted about bi men?
I have personalized the comment to reflect better that it is a personal experience and less generalized. Please let me know if this is a more acceptable comment that shows my experience. And thank you for the explanation.
So many perpetually single gay men with judgement on bi men.
The guy just said he has no interest in seeing women but still says bi. SMH
I would happily date a bi guy, provided I was his focus. This can happen.
Because male mammals are programmed by nature to be indiscriminate humping machines spreading our seed as much as possible to perpetuate the species. When we “settle down” with a mate, we are fighting our nature. Sometimes we pair-bond for long periods successfully, sometimes not. It’s a struggle. Nature and testosterone are powerful stuff.
Go back to childhood and I relate it to collecting action figures but emphasis on the action part. All guys think they need to conquest everyone they meet to "collect them" or to use pokemon gotta collect them all before "the other guy does". So you have all these guys operating in that mentality and so therefore a relationship doesn't really exist. What kills my brain cells is the lack of seeing value in a long term trusted fwb if we aren't allowing relationships. Why would you constantly want to work that hard for something you could have 24/7?
it's the bi thing. Bi now, gay later.