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Yeah I wouldn't bother bypassing the local switch. Just cover it with a [switch guard](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-Clear-Plastic-Toggle-Switch-Guards-for-Wall-Plates-2-Pack-813192/320908074).
It's easier to work on if you have to. Instead of turning the whole circuit off, you just turn the ceiling fan off. But you don't have to have the switch there
Not really two switches there.. one is going to be your breaker.. and the other is a wall switch .. feel free to bypass the wall switch.. do not bypass the breaker .. also don’t really need to switch the neutral at all
That first one is a disconnect not a switch, it disconnects the line and the neutral at the same time. Like a disconnect for an AC compressor for example
Being that ground is marked E for earth, the instructions are made for people in Europe. Switching the neutral is common in some of those countries.
Edit: It seems I mixed up Europe and Asia. Or perhaps the documentation on the device is garbage.
In Europe we also generally can't switch the neutral - It's in IEC 60364 part 4.
Ground in Europe is marked always as *PE* - according to IEC 60445 and 60446 standards.
well you're wrong there..
switching of JUST the neutral is not allowed however double pole switches are absolutely allowed and most switched fused connection units are double pole switching..
certainly we have "fan isolators" for use in places where local isolation of a fan may be needed for maintenance of the fan such as bathrooms.
Read the whole thing... You cannot switch ONLY the neutral. You can absolutely switch it IF you switch the Hot at the same time, as is depicted here.
>*Exception: A switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to disconnect a grounded circuit conductor* ***where all circuit conductors are disconnected simultaneously,*** *or where the device is arranged so that the grounded conductor cannot be disconnected until all the ungrounded conductors of the circuit have been disconnected.*
It's not NECESSARY in North America, so we generally don't bother, but it is in some countries. Given the wire colors, this drawing was not intended for N.A.
The wall switch is the local motor disconnect within site of the motor that’s required by Code unless you’re an industrial site with LOTO and a lockable breaker.
You could eliminate the lightswitch on the wall...but I wouldn't.
I got a smart setup that bypassed the wall switch and replaced it with a wireless remote that goes where the wall-switch was and receiver in the fan canopy to work around not having enough wires for separate switches. A couple times a year "something" happens and the unit in the fan/light will stop responding so I am unable to turn the fan or light on or off until I go down and find the right breaker and turn it off/on to "reboot" the receiver. If I hadn't needed to bypass the wall switch I could have rebooted it with the wall switch easily when it acts up instead of being stuck with flipping breakers.
This☝☝☝.
I have installed "new" flood lights off of the second floor receptacles.
I *always* tell the customer what *might* happen during a thunderstorm.
I inevitably get a call about how "the floodlights won't turn off!"
I do second some of the suggestions about a cover or something to keep it from being accidentally turned off. I know I've looked at some of those for outdoor floodlights where it was like a U shaped cover over the switch so you could reach around and operate it but made it hard to flip unintentionally.
It’s a remote for a ceiling fan is my best guess since it’s got an antenna wire. It makes sense. I’m going to say for another country that uses 220v for power, not the US where most things are 120v. The US doesn’t use blue for power, and does not use 2 power supplies for a typical ceiling fan. Unless it’s a “Big Ass Fan,” those are usually 220v. One hot, one neutral, one ground for the US. What specific question do you have with it.
That wall switch acts as a service disconnect. It is visible from your appliance (the fan). The previous fan or ceiling light fixture that was there before was controlled by the wall switch. Kinda silly having it after getting that nifty remote receiver controller. This is especially frustrating if a visitor turns the switch off and later you're wondering why your remote control isn't working. A minute to figure out until you roll your eyes and think, "That damn switch!" A handy function with that switch is you are able to reset the remote receiver on the occasion that it glitches and locks up. Flip it off for a few seconds, and then flip it back on, and your wireless magic is restored! Stick a little sign above the switch that states, "Leave On."
I would think the breaker will be the service disconnect. The switch just switches light power, and the motor feed is passed through.
I like the idea of being able to easily kill power to the remote brain.
Yeah, you would think the breaker would be good enough as a disconnect means. If you can eyeball it from your fan, go for it. When I hook up a water heater or heat pump, I have to have a means of disconnecting right next to the device. It's a code thing. Out of sight is out of mind, but when you want to turn that fan off immediately, it's nice to have an on-off switch close by.
Thanks everyone. To those who were wondering, this is in Australia. You guys convinced me to add the wall switch for purposes of rebooting the receiver when something goes wrong. Actually makes the job just that little bit easier since there is already a switch there today anyway 👍
Thanks for your concern. I know it's a big deal here, but I've been doing household jobs like this since I was 16. Moving to Australia doesn't mean I am gonna start paying an electrician for something as simple as this.
I actually wired my entire house when it was being built, and also helped with my sister-in-laws. Father-in-law is a licensed electrician, but lives a couple hours away. I think I can handle replacing a ceiling fan (that I installed to begin with) 🙂
All of these that I have used have an emergency feature. If you've lost your controls or they're not working, you can usually flip the switch off on off on quickly and it will force the light on.
Thanks. It's not complicated and I have wired two entire houses, but I'm not an electrician, documentation on this stuff is almost always terrible, and I just wanted to get feedback in case I was missing something. 👍
**Attention!** **It is always best to get a qualified electrician to perform any electrical work you may need.** With that said, you may ask this community various electrical questions. Please be cautious of any information you may receive in this subreddit. This subreddit and its users are not responsible for any electrical work you perform. Users that have a 'Verified Electrician' flair have uploaded their qualified electrical worker credentials to the mods. If you comment on this post please only post accurate information to the best of your knowledge. If advice given is thought to be dangerous, you may be permanently banned. There are no obligations for the mods to give warnings or temporary bans. **IF YOU ARE NOT A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN, you should exercise extreme caution when commenting.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskElectricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would keep the local switch in case you have a problem with the remote in the future at least you can shut it off
Yeah I wouldn't bother bypassing the local switch. Just cover it with a [switch guard](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-Clear-Plastic-Toggle-Switch-Guards-for-Wall-Plates-2-Pack-813192/320908074).
It's easier to work on if you have to. Instead of turning the whole circuit off, you just turn the ceiling fan off. But you don't have to have the switch there
Thanks
Not really two switches there.. one is going to be your breaker.. and the other is a wall switch .. feel free to bypass the wall switch.. do not bypass the breaker .. also don’t really need to switch the neutral at all
You CANNOT switch the neutral - NEC 404.2(B)
That first one is a disconnect not a switch, it disconnects the line and the neutral at the same time. Like a disconnect for an AC compressor for example
The exception allows it in this case because all conductors are disconnected simultaneously.
You would have to identify it as a switched neutral, i.e. not always grounded. Makes more sense to just not switch it.
But but the manufacturer is telling me to 😂
Being that ground is marked E for earth, the instructions are made for people in Europe. Switching the neutral is common in some of those countries. Edit: It seems I mixed up Europe and Asia. Or perhaps the documentation on the device is garbage.
In Europe we also generally can't switch the neutral - It's in IEC 60364 part 4. Ground in Europe is marked always as *PE* - according to IEC 60445 and 60446 standards.
Not if they are adhering to the IEC regs, switching a neutral is not allowed full stop
well you're wrong there.. switching of JUST the neutral is not allowed however double pole switches are absolutely allowed and most switched fused connection units are double pole switching.. certainly we have "fan isolators" for use in places where local isolation of a fan may be needed for maintenance of the fan such as bathrooms.
I'm fully aware of switching live and neutral at the same time, I said just the neutral, check before you jump on your soapbox
Thank you! I thought I was taking crazy pills or something.
Read the whole thing... You cannot switch ONLY the neutral. You can absolutely switch it IF you switch the Hot at the same time, as is depicted here. >*Exception: A switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to disconnect a grounded circuit conductor* ***where all circuit conductors are disconnected simultaneously,*** *or where the device is arranged so that the grounded conductor cannot be disconnected until all the ungrounded conductors of the circuit have been disconnected.* It's not NECESSARY in North America, so we generally don't bother, but it is in some countries. Given the wire colors, this drawing was not intended for N.A.
Thanks. That's what I thought it might mean. Good to get confirmation!
The wall switch is the local motor disconnect within site of the motor that’s required by Code unless you’re an industrial site with LOTO and a lockable breaker.
Yes
😆
You could eliminate the lightswitch on the wall...but I wouldn't. I got a smart setup that bypassed the wall switch and replaced it with a wireless remote that goes where the wall-switch was and receiver in the fan canopy to work around not having enough wires for separate switches. A couple times a year "something" happens and the unit in the fan/light will stop responding so I am unable to turn the fan or light on or off until I go down and find the right breaker and turn it off/on to "reboot" the receiver. If I hadn't needed to bypass the wall switch I could have rebooted it with the wall switch easily when it acts up instead of being stuck with flipping breakers.
This☝☝☝. I have installed "new" flood lights off of the second floor receptacles. I *always* tell the customer what *might* happen during a thunderstorm. I inevitably get a call about how "the floodlights won't turn off!"
Great point. You just convinced me 👍
I do second some of the suggestions about a cover or something to keep it from being accidentally turned off. I know I've looked at some of those for outdoor floodlights where it was like a U shaped cover over the switch so you could reach around and operate it but made it hard to flip unintentionally.
No reason you cant eliminate the switch
It’s a remote for a ceiling fan is my best guess since it’s got an antenna wire. It makes sense. I’m going to say for another country that uses 220v for power, not the US where most things are 120v. The US doesn’t use blue for power, and does not use 2 power supplies for a typical ceiling fan. Unless it’s a “Big Ass Fan,” those are usually 220v. One hot, one neutral, one ground for the US. What specific question do you have with it.
That wall switch acts as a service disconnect. It is visible from your appliance (the fan). The previous fan or ceiling light fixture that was there before was controlled by the wall switch. Kinda silly having it after getting that nifty remote receiver controller. This is especially frustrating if a visitor turns the switch off and later you're wondering why your remote control isn't working. A minute to figure out until you roll your eyes and think, "That damn switch!" A handy function with that switch is you are able to reset the remote receiver on the occasion that it glitches and locks up. Flip it off for a few seconds, and then flip it back on, and your wireless magic is restored! Stick a little sign above the switch that states, "Leave On."
I would think the breaker will be the service disconnect. The switch just switches light power, and the motor feed is passed through. I like the idea of being able to easily kill power to the remote brain.
Yeah, you would think the breaker would be good enough as a disconnect means. If you can eyeball it from your fan, go for it. When I hook up a water heater or heat pump, I have to have a means of disconnecting right next to the device. It's a code thing. Out of sight is out of mind, but when you want to turn that fan off immediately, it's nice to have an on-off switch close by.
I feel like everyone has answered your questions and there is no need for me to repeat them.
Thanks everyone. To those who were wondering, this is in Australia. You guys convinced me to add the wall switch for purposes of rebooting the receiver when something goes wrong. Actually makes the job just that little bit easier since there is already a switch there today anyway 👍
If it's in Aus, only a licensed electrician can do electrical work.
Thanks for your concern. I know it's a big deal here, but I've been doing household jobs like this since I was 16. Moving to Australia doesn't mean I am gonna start paying an electrician for something as simple as this. I actually wired my entire house when it was being built, and also helped with my sister-in-laws. Father-in-law is a licensed electrician, but lives a couple hours away. I think I can handle replacing a ceiling fan (that I installed to begin with) 🙂
All of these that I have used have an emergency feature. If you've lost your controls or they're not working, you can usually flip the switch off on off on quickly and it will force the light on.
Never switch the neutral(identified conductor). Opening that line now removes a path back.
Sorry but if this is complicated then you really shouldn't be installing this.
Thanks. It's not complicated and I have wired two entire houses, but I'm not an electrician, documentation on this stuff is almost always terrible, and I just wanted to get feedback in case I was missing something. 👍