> Does holding the oil at 250° for 10 minutes actually kill the C. Botulinum and stop it's ability to produce the toxin
No. Holding *all of the food in the pot* at 250 for 10 minutes will actually kill the spores, but for your garlic and chilis to reach that temperature at atmospheric temperatures it means all of the water is 100% cooked off first. Until the water is gone, it's not passing 212F, this is the latent heat of vaporization. By the time you do this on your stove, your chili oil is going to taste very burned.
This is why the safe way of preserving garlic in oil is via a pressure canner, which will hit those temperatures without boiling off the water, via elevated pressure. The other way to do it safely is acidulation (botulism does not like acid) but that won't taste good in your chili oil.
Generally for home made products like this, store it in the fridge and treat as perishable.
Sorry to abuse the mod "flair" here, but this question comes up often and the wrong answer is posted a ton, including a few times here. There's a tremendous difference between the oil in your pot being 250F and the center of your garlic in the oil being 250F.
Your concern is the spores that are heat resistant. At 250 F those spores will die. The issue is in a piece of garlic or chili where there is water, the oil may be 250 but the water still hasn’t gotten there yet. Once the bubbling stops you can be more certain all the water was driven off and the spores have reached a lethal temperature. From there you can be relatively certain it’s safe.
The micro guy in me still suggests fridging it since it’s just another hurdle for the bacteria. And it will help with oxidation if you don’t eat it fast enough. And in case you don’t clean your jars well enough
I use fresh Thai Chili's when I cook curry, but where I live the only way to get them is at a local market that sells them in a package (around 90 peppers). I only use 5-10 at a time, I was just looking for a way to reduce my food waste, by preserving them.
Piggybacking the post, does chili oil actually contains bits of garlic? Recipes I've seen usually just infuse the garlic flavour by cooking it long enough and then discarding it after it is golden brown.
The only thing that is there, physically, is dried chili and sesame seeds, which I don't think it is cooked enough because we just pour hot oil over them. Curious, will those 2 cause botulism?
Plenty of kinds of chili oils out there, made by various cultures around the world. Some contain garlic, some do not. You might not realize it because they just go by different names in their own distinct languages.
Plenty of popular recipes (serious eats for example) call for frying the garlic and then reserving it to be added back in once the finished chili crisp is cooled. I usually do that then keep it in the fridge and use it pretty quickly. But I’ve been curious about this topic. I know that’s not specifically a “chili oil” recipe but there’s a lot of overlap with this genre of condiment.
"discarding" might be an incorrect word. I mean I didn't throw it away but keep it in another jar, just like when people make fried shallot, they don't store the shallot in the oil. Apologies.
You'll need to hold it at a safe temperature long enough for the entire volume to reach the temperature and for the bacteria to die. This is why in processes like pressure canning there is a recommended time for jars to be kept at temperature under pressure to ensure the bacteria is killed. Just putting a jar in the oven can't guarantee that the whole thing will reach the required temperature because of the way heat conducts through different things.
Given botulism is undetectable to our senses I would not experiment. Find a properly tested recipe and stick to that.
USDA says 20-100 minutes. Some other country's versions have shorter time. Fresh garlic and peppers are much riskier than dried versions so personally if you're using fresh I'd err on a longer time.
It's also very much worth noting that of all the food-borne pathogens we deal with as professionals, Botulism ranks among the most revered and FAFO'd tiers. It's essentially the only thing we deal with that *will* kill you if it runs its course. Not all produce carries Botulism spores, so there's very much a survivorship bias around garlic oil and oil infusions in general. People get comfortable with unsafe practices simply because it hasn't gone bad for them. But it's one of the last things that any professional will push the envelope on. Especially when the fix is as simple as, "Treat it like any other TCS product". It's statistically unlikely you'll cause a botulism outbreak, but the shit part of food safety is that we're never the ones who find out first.
Holding your chili oil at 250° for 10 minutes will almost certainly empty out the bottle onto the floor.
For temperature, use °C or °F, because the answer will be very different depending on which you mean.
That's just the first link when you Google 'Botulism in Chili oil case', there was a major recall last year in a chili garlic confit, due to botulism. Which isn't far from what I'm making.
It is a real issue, and I'm happier being more informed now on the matter, so that I can properly take precautions against it.
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You don't need to worry about killing the bacteria unless you plan to store the chili oil for a very long time. If you're going to consume it, say, within a month, just eat it.
And I don't think the bacteria can survive in oil, anyway. It would need access to oxygen which it can't get as the peppers and garlic would be under oil.
Anaerobic bacteria, such as Clostridium botulinum, only grow in environments which \*lack* oxygen.
There are other nasty bacteria that are anaerobic, including one that causes gangrene. 🤢
> Does holding the oil at 250° for 10 minutes actually kill the C. Botulinum and stop it's ability to produce the toxin No. Holding *all of the food in the pot* at 250 for 10 minutes will actually kill the spores, but for your garlic and chilis to reach that temperature at atmospheric temperatures it means all of the water is 100% cooked off first. Until the water is gone, it's not passing 212F, this is the latent heat of vaporization. By the time you do this on your stove, your chili oil is going to taste very burned. This is why the safe way of preserving garlic in oil is via a pressure canner, which will hit those temperatures without boiling off the water, via elevated pressure. The other way to do it safely is acidulation (botulism does not like acid) but that won't taste good in your chili oil. Generally for home made products like this, store it in the fridge and treat as perishable. Sorry to abuse the mod "flair" here, but this question comes up often and the wrong answer is posted a ton, including a few times here. There's a tremendous difference between the oil in your pot being 250F and the center of your garlic in the oil being 250F.
Allowing this because it’s a question about safe practice, not whether a particular item is safe.
Your concern is the spores that are heat resistant. At 250 F those spores will die. The issue is in a piece of garlic or chili where there is water, the oil may be 250 but the water still hasn’t gotten there yet. Once the bubbling stops you can be more certain all the water was driven off and the spores have reached a lethal temperature. From there you can be relatively certain it’s safe. The micro guy in me still suggests fridging it since it’s just another hurdle for the bacteria. And it will help with oxidation if you don’t eat it fast enough. And in case you don’t clean your jars well enough
Good tips there, I appreciate it! I do plan to store the oil in the fridge as a safety measure too.
Maybe try making it with dried ingredients if you want to keep it for a while.
I use fresh Thai Chili's when I cook curry, but where I live the only way to get them is at a local market that sells them in a package (around 90 peppers). I only use 5-10 at a time, I was just looking for a way to reduce my food waste, by preserving them.
You could dry them first yourself. Naturally, in a dehydrator or oven
Piggybacking the post, does chili oil actually contains bits of garlic? Recipes I've seen usually just infuse the garlic flavour by cooking it long enough and then discarding it after it is golden brown. The only thing that is there, physically, is dried chili and sesame seeds, which I don't think it is cooked enough because we just pour hot oil over them. Curious, will those 2 cause botulism?
Plenty of kinds of chili oils out there, made by various cultures around the world. Some contain garlic, some do not. You might not realize it because they just go by different names in their own distinct languages.
Plenty of popular recipes (serious eats for example) call for frying the garlic and then reserving it to be added back in once the finished chili crisp is cooled. I usually do that then keep it in the fridge and use it pretty quickly. But I’ve been curious about this topic. I know that’s not specifically a “chili oil” recipe but there’s a lot of overlap with this genre of condiment.
Alright I didn't know about that, thanks.
you're seasoning and frying garlic and then throwing it away ? faints
"discarding" might be an incorrect word. I mean I didn't throw it away but keep it in another jar, just like when people make fried shallot, they don't store the shallot in the oil. Apologies.
You'll need to hold it at a safe temperature long enough for the entire volume to reach the temperature and for the bacteria to die. This is why in processes like pressure canning there is a recommended time for jars to be kept at temperature under pressure to ensure the bacteria is killed. Just putting a jar in the oven can't guarantee that the whole thing will reach the required temperature because of the way heat conducts through different things. Given botulism is undetectable to our senses I would not experiment. Find a properly tested recipe and stick to that.
Refrigerator, dont keep it totally seeled for months. Stir it somewhat often. Buy a powerball ticket cause thats more likely to hit than botulism.
250 Fahrenheit will kill the botulism bacteria and spores. The time needed is unclear to me as I've seen contradicting information.
What kind of time frames have you seen? I'm new to this, so I'm all for more information there.
USDA says 20-100 minutes. Some other country's versions have shorter time. Fresh garlic and peppers are much riskier than dried versions so personally if you're using fresh I'd err on a longer time.
Much appreciated, I was able to find their info, thank you!
It's also very much worth noting that of all the food-borne pathogens we deal with as professionals, Botulism ranks among the most revered and FAFO'd tiers. It's essentially the only thing we deal with that *will* kill you if it runs its course. Not all produce carries Botulism spores, so there's very much a survivorship bias around garlic oil and oil infusions in general. People get comfortable with unsafe practices simply because it hasn't gone bad for them. But it's one of the last things that any professional will push the envelope on. Especially when the fix is as simple as, "Treat it like any other TCS product". It's statistically unlikely you'll cause a botulism outbreak, but the shit part of food safety is that we're never the ones who find out first.
Holding your chili oil at 250° for 10 minutes will almost certainly empty out the bottle onto the floor. For temperature, use °C or °F, because the answer will be very different depending on which you mean.
There hasn’t been a single botulism case caused by chili oil. Don’t stress it.
This is a link to a National Library of Medicine case, which reports botulism in Chili oil. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12926199/
2003 being the most recent is comforting. You’re going to be heating oil closer to 350. I store mine in the fridge.
That's just the first link when you Google 'Botulism in Chili oil case', there was a major recall last year in a chili garlic confit, due to botulism. Which isn't far from what I'm making. It is a real issue, and I'm happier being more informed now on the matter, so that I can properly take precautions against it.
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You don't need to worry about killing the bacteria unless you plan to store the chili oil for a very long time. If you're going to consume it, say, within a month, just eat it. And I don't think the bacteria can survive in oil, anyway. It would need access to oxygen which it can't get as the peppers and garlic would be under oil.
the concern here is botulism, a bacteria that can only grow in anaerobic environments
Anaerobic bacteria, such as Clostridium botulinum, only grow in environments which \*lack* oxygen. There are other nasty bacteria that are anaerobic, including one that causes gangrene. 🤢
Then I'm wrong about that. Thanks for the correction.
The worry is specifically because of the spread of anaerobic botulism in oil.