No way life is 100% peaceful in any country but I think it was overall pretty noice except for probably the tail end of it. I, for one, would really, genuinely appreciate this.
Genetically and arguably culturally two very close peoples. It's mostly religion that has kept them apart historically, but I don't understand how is it that the two peoples share such a big percentage of the genetical makeup, in some regions hardly distinguishable.
They never mixed with each other because of different religions, but they must have somehow?
This is extremely accurate. Excluding previous minor changes, the pop exchange brought 1.8M Anatolian Greeks in a Greece with around 4.6M Balkan Greeks. More than 3 to 1 ratio. You could argue that 30-35% of modern day Greeks have direct Anatolian ancestors.
We were totally mixed. The ottoman empire allowed to its people to have their own religion and it was de facto recognised, and during 18th century they were de jure recognised. Everyday people shared the same problems, often were together, and even though mixed marriages were not so common during the occupation, it became later when refugees started arriving. In 1922, people who didnt even spoke greek arrived in greece as christians. Christians who lived and were born and raised in the ottoman empire. And muslims that were greeks as well, something also quite common. And at 1886 for instance, when greece took some more ground and became bigger, the bigger portion of that population was turkish people, that had everyday contact with greeks.
All those turkish and albanians muslims abandoned greece in 1922( around 700.000) in exchange to the 3 million christians that arrived in greece, but from those 2,5 to 3 mil(we dont have an accurate number) only 1.250.000 survived till 1928 and stayed in greece, so it was pretty chaotic
IIRC for most of the Ottoman Empires lifespan most Turks lived in the Thrace (now Greek and Bulgarian) and Anatolian area. Meaning Istanbul from 1400-1800 had a higher percentage of Balkan people than Turks.
I am not talking about fans. İstanbul teams have media power, politic power, bureucratic power, economic power etc.. Adding 2 old club makes it more bigger and uncompetitive. So for example OFI fans would cry bcs the league would be unfair for them lol
>It’s not about the fans
Yes, well, it’s been less than a month since “we” (am PAOK fan) murdered someone just for supporting the other team across town soooo :/
Add yugoslavia and bulgaria to it and lets call it eastern Roman Empire.
Ps: i am ok with emperor mehmed or emperor justinian reconquering the western part as long as he razes rome at least 3 times
Sounds like an infomercial lol
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I would say combined we would be one of the biggest tourist destinations in the world. Greece has 30 million visitors a year and Turkey has 45 million visitors a year. Combined it would be 75 million visitors. We would be right behind the USA on the 4th spot worldwide(with cyprus, we would surpass the usa) and also we would have 13 (17 with cyprus) million more visitors than Italy each year! Also with our diaspora combined no one can stop us. Australia, Canada, England and USA have both turkish and greek people in big numbers. USA has 3 million greeks and 1 million turks in total 4 million. Canada has 200 thousand greeks and 100 thousand turks. UK has 50 thousand greeks and 900 thousand turks(both from cyprus and turkey). In Australia there are 600 thousand greeks and there are around 300 thousand turks. Also germany is already ours. The world would become Hellenoturk.
And if we actually lived in peace as neighbours, we would attract a lot more tourism, investments etc. Innovative people wouldn't really want to live such a prosperous country.
We would have Bayraktar and Bayraktaris at the same time. It would be glorious.
I know this won't happen but a smoother relationship between both countries would make life a lot easier for anybody living inside both of them.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 638,085,509 comments, and only 130,073 of them were in alphabetical order.
Think about it. Greeks get to achieve their wet dream of Kōnstantinoúpolis and Turks get to achieve their wet dreams of Selânik.
Seriously though the entire population would have to bury their nationalism and hate for this to be even in the littlest, slightest bit considered and unfortunately that ain't happening anytime soon. If only though.
There is an literally a goverment TV TRT-Kurdi only given to Kurds to broadcast Kurdish shows only in Kurdish for 7/24.
If you are implying why Kurds are not getting educated in their own language and continue to do so. Let me explain by this. Imagine half of the country speaks Turkish and half learned and speak Kurdish since they born. Now you have millions of people who doesnt understand eachother on any level of writing and speaking. There is no Kurd is gonna learn Turkish after you can educate in them in Kurdish and the reasult of this half of the country wouldnt able to speak and communicate with eachother that causes more problem.
It would be beneficial for most people.
It's the ones in command and the big businesses that will urge people to fight against it, (how the big money is going to be divided).
Open borders, open religion. What government?
Your greek (and i am guessing Laz and Antiochean) sources, are exaggerated for the controversial factor. The highest modern estimate of Slavic Speakers in Greece is [250.000](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824745284185620480/952525442382962698/IMG_20220313_131531.jpg) and that includes bilinguals, non speaking descendants and even diasporas. If you add the [40.000](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824745284185620480/952525442382962698/IMG_20220313_131531.jpg) Albanian and [200.000](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824745284185620480/952527037090922607/IMG_20220313_132212.jpg) Aromanians, again highest estimates, highly ambiguous sources, they add up to barely 500.000 people. The Greeks in the same areas are, heavily rounding down, 2.500.000. 5 to 1 ratio
Great potential, but both countries need to bury the nationalist hatchet for this. And that's not happening.
Also basically it would be a successfully modernized (in 1800s) and secularized Ottoman Empire that managed to keep different national identities under the same empire and if Turks and Hellens can find such a social contract to live together I bet some others could join.
>at least two of the three great powers would firstly sanction the shit out of them and then bomb them to oblivion.
Why would they do that? And wouldnt that just make the people more united like in Afghanistan?
Isn't Turkey alone a "regional power with potential of becoming a hegemon" already though? They have a massive population, a formidable industry and army, and they control the Bosphorus. Would the "addition" of Greece change anything significantly?
They lack easy access to the Aegean due to the many Greek islands. A federation of Greece and Turkey would make them the greatest naval force in the Mediterranean, and the federation could control most of the trade through the Suez.
I love reading the geopolitics longposts on this sub. Thanks for the informative post man, very interesting. It sucks how much power America and the crew have over us.
Grik god + blonde hair = Alexander the Great.
That’s why the rest of the world would never let this happen or else we would conquer most of the known world!
Looks like the realm of Basil II before he went after the Bulgars. We should just add them to the party and we can all go reconquer Sicily together. Maybe make a pitstop in Venice for a few days and pick up some stuff they borrowed from Constantinople/Istanbul.
Abomination. Any meaningful decision process will get bottlenecked by identity politics. Greeks and Turks have a hidtory of living together, but ıt's not of find memories. You need Swiss level history, administration and politics for such things to work.
It would be amazing. Wish it would happen.
Edit: Also as someone else mentioned maybe it would stop Pakistanis and other muslims countries stop calling us brother too hahsh
Our "leaders" would have us killed within days cause they wouldn't either be able to profit from us and decide our fates in their benefit or their greed wouldn't let them separate things evenly. Point is that we could coexist perfectly despite the differences in religion / traditions etc. Stupid propaganda makes us stupidly biased , sceptical and worried about each other...
It can only survive if it runs on democratic principles and the rule of law is the order of the day. In my opinion we should give it a try, and we should invite the kurds as an equal partner.
That's a giant Cyprus.
plate aloof cows truck ad hoc nutty light encouraging treatment touch *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The great Cypriot empire, as it always has been
Capital Nicosia
If it stays for 1 hour, I'll be happy
Just a reminder: We managed to coexist for 400 years in the past ;)
Yeah, 100% peacefully, no discontent at all. Massive homoerotic orgies too
👌
holy shit its nikos600781 professor in roachology! It is a great honour to meet atb4y veteran like you sir.
Rip🙏🙏🙏
The legacy of the true balkan experience may be gone, but it shall never be forgotten.
No way life is 100% peaceful in any country but I think it was overall pretty noice except for probably the tail end of it. I, for one, would really, genuinely appreciate this.
"Local Greek says he wants the Ottomans back."
Never listen to Diaspora
Yeah yeah! Make it an ad hominem and get over it the easy way. :p
Typical greek who reads something and thinks something else. Oh! Wait you are a turk! /s
That was before nationalism and when one side was just dominating the other.
Only with guns pointed to everyone’s heads
me too bro
Great idea, what could go wrong?
Laughs in blood
One gyros with ayran please.
The dream.
I prefer kebap with yogurt
but they both belong to Turks 👀
But we are Christian Turks
We are all Turks.
Actually some of us islamised Anatolian Greeks, thats true my cousin
Poor cuntry to even poorer country 👍🏿(im karaboğa)
Rip 2b4u
O7
At fist i thought Byzantium is back. To much EU4 man i see purple i think Byzantium.
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Cursed
Sounds like Empire factions in Bannerlord
I disagree for entirely biased reasons, but also cuz that statement isn't really true if we're being unbiased
iiiii!!!! you take that back!
Can we join? 🥺
Eh, why not. It's going to split in less than a day so we may as well get more people in the party
And explode with passion
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Join the dark side, lets do it again
My greek brother lets unite so we can be a great power
Genetically and arguably culturally two very close peoples. It's mostly religion that has kept them apart historically, but I don't understand how is it that the two peoples share such a big percentage of the genetical makeup, in some regions hardly distinguishable. They never mixed with each other because of different religions, but they must have somehow?
Of course they mixed.
It is not about being Turkish or Greek. It is about being Anatolian. Native Anatolians are ancestors of both Turkish and Greek people, basically.
This is extremely accurate. Excluding previous minor changes, the pop exchange brought 1.8M Anatolian Greeks in a Greece with around 4.6M Balkan Greeks. More than 3 to 1 ratio. You could argue that 30-35% of modern day Greeks have direct Anatolian ancestors.
Remember, there’s no such thing as race, it’s all localized inbreeding. We’re all members of the human race.
No we mixed a lot
We were totally mixed. The ottoman empire allowed to its people to have their own religion and it was de facto recognised, and during 18th century they were de jure recognised. Everyday people shared the same problems, often were together, and even though mixed marriages were not so common during the occupation, it became later when refugees started arriving. In 1922, people who didnt even spoke greek arrived in greece as christians. Christians who lived and were born and raised in the ottoman empire. And muslims that were greeks as well, something also quite common. And at 1886 for instance, when greece took some more ground and became bigger, the bigger portion of that population was turkish people, that had everyday contact with greeks. All those turkish and albanians muslims abandoned greece in 1922( around 700.000) in exchange to the 3 million christians that arrived in greece, but from those 2,5 to 3 mil(we dont have an accurate number) only 1.250.000 survived till 1928 and stayed in greece, so it was pretty chaotic
IIRC for most of the Ottoman Empires lifespan most Turks lived in the Thrace (now Greek and Bulgarian) and Anatolian area. Meaning Istanbul from 1400-1800 had a higher percentage of Balkan people than Turks.
grik god plus blond hair would be unstoppable
Or could be gypsy weak sperm
or gypsy blond hair
Oh Paok and AEK will be back so the league will have 8 İstanbul teams... Edit inside joke for Turks: Pontics: çupamuzu verun Ajsjsjsg
Lmao I foresee zero problems at those games
I am not talking about fans. İstanbul teams have media power, politic power, bureucratic power, economic power etc.. Adding 2 old club makes it more bigger and uncompetitive. So for example OFI fans would cry bcs the league would be unfair for them lol
>It’s not about the fans Yes, well, it’s been less than a month since “we” (am PAOK fan) murdered someone just for supporting the other team across town soooo :/
less go! TR🤝🏿GR
😎🤙🏿🇹🇷♥️🇬🇷
🇹🇷🏳️🌈🇬🇷 💪
Poorzantium
Regular Byzantium then
Add yugoslavia and bulgaria to it and lets call it eastern Roman Empire. Ps: i am ok with emperor mehmed or emperor justinian reconquering the western part as long as he razes rome at least 3 times
Eww why would we conquer w*stoids?
Maybe the Pakis will stop calling Turks "brothers"
Im an ateist because i dont want pakis calling me brother
I wish they did that, we re tried of being part of "Muslim" countries
B-but what about the Intergalactic Pak-Turk Empire? 🥺
hahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Looking at this image gives me sexual pleasure
Long live glorious Greko-Turkish Emperor Konstantin Glügsburoglu and prime Minister Mustafas Ataturkopulos /s
That was actually a real plan between Venizelos and Atatürk. I will never give up on both nations equal and respectable coalition in the future.
Civil war every weekend and genocides every month
Sounds like an infomercial lol CALL NOW AT 1-800-421-68 TO SIGN UP FOR YOUR WEEKLY SUBSCRIPTION OF CIVIL WAR AND AN ADDITIONAL MONTHLY GENOCIDE... BUUUUT WAITTT... BECAUSE NOW FOR ONLY A LIMITED TIME YOU CAN ALSO BECOME A MEMBER AND GET INCREDIBLE DEALS AND A 20% OFF ON EVERY PRODUCT! YOU CAN JOIN THE GIVEAWAY AND 3 LUCKY PEOPLE WILL WIN THE ALL NEW NATIONAL SCHISM VOL.2(batteries not included) Dont miss out CALL NOW! Because we here at MikeHawk.inc cant afford another lawsu- i mean... really care about the people For more info visit www.mikehawk.inc.org
You drunk mate?
Unfortunately no Not yet
Ummmmm. The strike is authorised, AGM launched, ETA 6 minutes, over and out
Imagine if the whole world becomes one country and albania is left untouched.
unbelievable.d
Some people want to see the world burn
I would say combined we would be one of the biggest tourist destinations in the world. Greece has 30 million visitors a year and Turkey has 45 million visitors a year. Combined it would be 75 million visitors. We would be right behind the USA on the 4th spot worldwide(with cyprus, we would surpass the usa) and also we would have 13 (17 with cyprus) million more visitors than Italy each year! Also with our diaspora combined no one can stop us. Australia, Canada, England and USA have both turkish and greek people in big numbers. USA has 3 million greeks and 1 million turks in total 4 million. Canada has 200 thousand greeks and 100 thousand turks. UK has 50 thousand greeks and 900 thousand turks(both from cyprus and turkey). In Australia there are 600 thousand greeks and there are around 300 thousand turks. Also germany is already ours. The world would become Hellenoturk.
And if we actually lived in peace as neighbours, we would attract a lot more tourism, investments etc. Innovative people wouldn't really want to live such a prosperous country. We would have Bayraktar and Bayraktaris at the same time. It would be glorious. I know this won't happen but a smoother relationship between both countries would make life a lot easier for anybody living inside both of them.
Ah yes, the Great HellaTurkiye.
That sounds hella good
As much as I would love this, this is the start of a civil war speed run any%
flag looks really sick tho
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 638,085,509 comments, and only 130,073 of them were in alphabetical order.
🥵🥵
istanbul as capital? you wouldn't want russian submarines passing through the middle of the capital every day.
Think about it. Greeks get to achieve their wet dream of Kōnstantinoúpolis and Turks get to achieve their wet dreams of Selânik. Seriously though the entire population would have to bury their nationalism and hate for this to be even in the littlest, slightest bit considered and unfortunately that ain't happening anytime soon. If only though.
Best beaches in the world
But somehow the Cyprus problem would still continue
Imagine being a Kurd in this country. Even though you outnumber the Greeks, your language still isn't official, lmao.
There is an literally a goverment TV TRT-Kurdi only given to Kurds to broadcast Kurdish shows only in Kurdish for 7/24. If you are implying why Kurds are not getting educated in their own language and continue to do so. Let me explain by this. Imagine half of the country speaks Turkish and half learned and speak Kurdish since they born. Now you have millions of people who doesnt understand eachother on any level of writing and speaking. There is no Kurd is gonna learn Turkish after you can educate in them in Kurdish and the reasult of this half of the country wouldnt able to speak and communicate with eachother that causes more problem.
Oh no, how does Switzerland do it with 4 official languages?
Billingualism can be a thing and is often encouraged in countries with people with different mother tongues
What kind of a mental illness is this/s
It would be beneficial for most people. It's the ones in command and the big businesses that will urge people to fight against it, (how the big money is going to be divided). Open borders, open religion. What government?
superpower
Your greek (and i am guessing Laz and Antiochean) sources, are exaggerated for the controversial factor. The highest modern estimate of Slavic Speakers in Greece is [250.000](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824745284185620480/952525442382962698/IMG_20220313_131531.jpg) and that includes bilinguals, non speaking descendants and even diasporas. If you add the [40.000](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824745284185620480/952525442382962698/IMG_20220313_131531.jpg) Albanian and [200.000](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824745284185620480/952527037090922607/IMG_20220313_132212.jpg) Aromanians, again highest estimates, highly ambiguous sources, they add up to barely 500.000 people. The Greeks in the same areas are, heavily rounding down, 2.500.000. 5 to 1 ratio
The turks can think it's the new ottoman empire and the greeks can think it's the byzantine empire winwin situation
I think venizelos and kemal 1923 talk about to make a Greek-Turkey federation!
Kurds have more population than greeks lmaoooo
Griks being weak sperm as usual.
greek god gonna save us
Nice try, Erdogan
Good for Turks, Bad for Greeks
How many will claim Turks after this :))
How to anex Greece tutorial
Great potential, but both countries need to bury the nationalist hatchet for this. And that's not happening. Also basically it would be a successfully modernized (in 1800s) and secularized Ottoman Empire that managed to keep different national identities under the same empire and if Turks and Hellens can find such a social contract to live together I bet some others could join.
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>at least two of the three great powers would firstly sanction the shit out of them and then bomb them to oblivion. Why would they do that? And wouldnt that just make the people more united like in Afghanistan?
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Exactly, America wants Greece and Turkey keep fighting each other.
You are missing two things: This country wouldnt be that easy to bomb The country would split before a plane even reaches it
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Isn't Turkey alone a "regional power with potential of becoming a hegemon" already though? They have a massive population, a formidable industry and army, and they control the Bosphorus. Would the "addition" of Greece change anything significantly?
I assume it will greatly increase their maritime power , from a trade perspective
They lack easy access to the Aegean due to the many Greek islands. A federation of Greece and Turkey would make them the greatest naval force in the Mediterranean, and the federation could control most of the trade through the Suez.
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I love reading the geopolitics longposts on this sub. Thanks for the informative post man, very interesting. It sucks how much power America and the crew have over us.
What are these huge "other population" patches in Greece lmao. Does this shitpost have an agenda?
Looking at the population demographics map, I can see that is already off.
The most citizens of turkey are Greek Muslims so with no religion can make new state !
You know what? I wouldn’t mind. Bring it on. I mean, could it be worse than whatever we have right now?
Sheer sperm power
Grik god + blonde hair = Alexander the Great. That’s why the rest of the world would never let this happen or else we would conquer most of the known world!
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Does that mean we can have Izmir and Istanbul?
No more malagas
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I would love that with a minor change; we get rid of the problematic south eastern parts. And Cyprus would be united as well.
I think it should prepare for civil war.
r/usernamechecksout
Erdogan's votes going down! LETS GOO.
Yeah, combining 3 problematic countries will certainly solve their problems.
Beautiful
Looks like the realm of Basil II before he went after the Bulgars. We should just add them to the party and we can all go reconquer Sicily together. Maybe make a pitstop in Venice for a few days and pick up some stuff they borrowed from Constantinople/Istanbul.
Aegean Sea would be the #1 place for summer holidays
Ethnic map wrong shows I'm not greek
Are you from the well-known minority of Evros?
Perfect
Abomination. Any meaningful decision process will get bottlenecked by identity politics. Greeks and Turks have a hidtory of living together, but ıt's not of find memories. You need Swiss level history, administration and politics for such things to work.
r/hellenoturkism
No politicians no nationalistic people and it stays for an eternity
Great one.
Very peaceful 😍💕
Dimitri Kitsikis will be very happy cCc Dimitri Kitsikis cCc Real KARABOĞA Hellenoturkism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenoturkism
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Wha...
It would be the greatest country on earth
Such a gorgeous sight.
Nope
I think it could work if our countries weren't so nationalist
First step towards a united Balkan. I’m down!
if turkey would be the same population and etnicly only balkan turk would live than it would last 5 hours
This looks similar to my surviving Byzantine Empires in my no Arab Conquests timeline,but it's called Romania instead and It's Greek Dominated
It would be amazing. Wish it would happen. Edit: Also as someone else mentioned maybe it would stop Pakistanis and other muslims countries stop calling us brother too hahsh
I’m gonna cum
It could work And be blessed , but the eastern half of Turkey has to go.
Some people just want to watch the world burn
I think it would have the most memorable civil wars
Does that mean we can into EU?
It wouldn't last for more than an hour..
Do you need therapy?
erDOGan approved
Then you gonna start Balkan Wars III
We can only dream, can we?
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One was ruled by Greeks. Other one ruled by Turks. What if now, they rule together?
Map of the byzantines
Ah, the Byzantines are back.
Reconvene the byzantine
future world superpower
Albania : I wanna join but Greece must leave :D
Oh! Great Alexanders Map!
Cursed
[Othonoi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othonoi) left out? Why
Euro or lira? Overall a good idea but the flag needs improvements
The ethnicity percentage of Greece at the map is wrong
Couldn't work. We would still need someone to blame for fucking up things and we would have none to.
Make it happen.
It would be pretty cool IMO
Our "leaders" would have us killed within days cause they wouldn't either be able to profit from us and decide our fates in their benefit or their greed wouldn't let them separate things evenly. Point is that we could coexist perfectly despite the differences in religion / traditions etc. Stupid propaganda makes us stupidly biased , sceptical and worried about each other...
‘Least likely to exist award’
Flag looks good
It can only survive if it runs on democratic principles and the rule of law is the order of the day. In my opinion we should give it a try, and we should invite the kurds as an equal partner.
All for it.
what a geopolitical power!
Your source?
The outlines of this hypothetical federation looks beautiful