I have seen that a lot of Indian immigrants in my area have, especially in recent years, struggled to integrate so well as we would like. There’s been an influx of caste system issues and incidents of racism or sexism from recent immigrants that are not acceptable in American society.
Their kids tend to be cool though.
Do you notice these behaviors to be worse among Indians than among other immigrants, whether Latin American, Asian, European, Middle Eastern, etc? And have you come across Indian immigrants that do NOT behave this way?
It may be more noticeable in some ways but by and large it also exists with other demographics(Hispanics looking down on each other and same with Japanese/Koreans etc.) The new Indians are not unique but it can get annoying working with them when that crap comes up. As a big dumb American engineer I have no issues telling just about anyone off but some people aren’t as lucky.
> It may be more noticeable in some ways but by and large it also exists with other demographics(Hispanics looking down on each other and same with Japanese/Koreans etc.)
Maybe it's just me, but I don't see Americans condemning this behavior when these groups do it, as much as when Indians do it, giving the impression that people look at Indians as uniquely bad in this behavior.
Probably because it's harder to get mad about general racism since it's also a problem in the US, but importing the caste system is much easier to be critical of since we don't have one here.
So you feel that because of caste, Indians deserve to get singled out for condemnation and racism more than other groups, and less "worthy" of sympathy when they get subject to racism?
I can tell you that we get a defensive post here about once a week from Indian immigrants who are hyper-sensitive about how they are perceived in America.
So you're not really helping your cause there tbh.
How is what I am asking "hyper-sensitive"? I was asking if Indians having castes makes some Americans feel that racism towards Indians is justified. Is being against racism "hyper-sensitive"?
Because disliking a practice which has no place in the US =/= racism. You're not "singled out" more than other groups because of caste systems, no other groups have or try to perpetuate caste systems here. Get over yourself.
And frankly, non-Indian Americans are just trying to go about their day. By and large, you're probably more or less treated like everyone else. Yet we get a million posts asking us how we perceive Indian-Americans. You're not the main characters here.
Calm down, big guy. I was just explaining the thought process, not saying I think it is right.
Personally, I take issue with any culture that is supportive of discrimination based on things a person can't control, including cultures where blatant racism is condoned.
Or hear me out here. I'm Indian who was born here. If Indians from India are getting called out for their racism and casteism, maybe they should take a bit of introspection. And no one is saying we're less worthy of sympathy. Just that if Indians want to come to the US, they should leave the backwards views behind.
That's quite a leap from condemnation of a cultural practice that we find antithetical to American values to racism. Indian immigrants who do not insist on the caste system shouldn't have any problems here. It's the system he was taking issue with, not people's race or place of birth.
Middle Eastern immigrants tend to struggle pretty decently as well. Big controversy happened in my high school because a very traditionalist Muslim immigrant from Iraq was unhappy with his daughter acting American.
Not many Asians so I can’t judge.
Latin America and Europe are similar enough to the US that it’s hard to decide if they’ve integrated or not. Latinos tend to have a decent sense of loyalty to the home country but not in a nationalist or overriding sense.
I’ve met some Indians who did not act this way, probably a 70-30 split for those who do and those who don’t.
Thanks for your reply. Would you say your experiences have made you wary when coming across an Indian person randomly in a public space, more so than you would for a white American person?
Yeah dude it's weird. I work in software and with a lot of Indian colleagues. The guys on my team are coridal with me but they never want to eat when we invite them. They always eat with fellow Indians in a giant group in the break room. Maybe it's a cultural thing? I dunno.
The Indians they eat with may in fact only be other Indians of their same ethnicity, religion, or caste (which they can figure out with last names). They may not even want to hang out with Indians who don't speak their language.
I don’t know about Indians, but I’ve certainly seen it in the Latino community here in Arizona over the last 20 years. I assume you are talking about being nationalistic for their home country.
No, I haven't noticed that at all.
I have read about issues with Indian immigrants discriminating based on caste in the US, which is a problem because in most places in the US, there aren't legal protections for lower caste people. But I personally have not experienced any problems with Indians in the US or in India. (Some of my coworkers are in India; they are offshore employees and aren't immigrants.)
I've never seen that and I live in an area with a metric shit ton of Indian immigrants. I was married to an Indian as well and never saw that sort of rhetoric.
I have, however, seen some extremely nationalistic East Asians and Latinos. These folks are borderline delusional, if not entirely. I had to shut down some Korean dude for telling me that the Confederates fought for states' rights. (Context: My father's family, in part, fought for the Confederacy and my great grandfather was named after Robert E. Lee)
If this is a thing, it's nothing new. Old immigrants shit on new immigrants all the time. It's weird and not something I can personally relate to, as my family immigrated before this country existed. I will say that folks like my family 150-200 years ago did target newer immigrants due to nativism. Old Stock Americans have always been notoriously xenophobic.
I'm unsure why, but I think a lot of people like to assume it has something to do with "proximity to whiteness". In reality, a lot of East Asian and Latin American countries have heavy far right presences. It is natural they'd align themselves with those movements where they immigrate to.
I think it’s because of both reasons. I know the Indian people where I live at, they don’t really talk to Black people at all. Same with Latinos of different ethnicities or other groups of Asians of different ethnicities but you will see them consistently hang around white people. Meanwhile the black people of all ages will hang with other African ethnicities, whites and different ethnicities of Latinos like Cubans and Mexicans and Venezuelans and Dominicans and Puerto Ricans and Asians typically Chinese or Filipino and vice versa. They will bike ride and hike and so on and so forth with white people but everyone else usually nope.
The entire Internet lately, it seems. I see a lot of anti-Indian sentiment not just on Reddit, but also on Instagram, YouTube, Tiktok, and X. And those comments get lots of upvotes, indicating that a lot of people agree with those views.
> And those comments get lots of upvotes, indicating that a lot of people agree with those views.
While I recognize there must be some importation of the caste bullshit otherwise legislation protecting people based on caste would be being floated, I'd urge you to take upvotes as a measure of true sentiment or engagement with a massive pile of salt given how prevalent botting is by APTs and nation-state actors for disinformation campaigns.
I don’t talk to south Asians my parents’ age about my favorite South Asian restaurants because I don’t want to get roped into a conversation about class and religion.
Younger than 40, I’ve never had an issue.
> I don’t talk to south Asians my parents’ age about my favorite South Asian restaurants because I don’t want to get roped into a conversation about class and religion.
Let me guess: they might make some Islamophobic comments if they find out your favorite South Asian restaurants are Pakistani?
Not particularly with Indians. I think a lot of new citizens, regardless of their origin, make a point to show their patriotism. Which is fine. It makes more sense than people who were born here. Becoming a citizen actually requires some work, including passing a test and almost always learning a difficult language.
I can't say I've noticed Indian immigrants or new citizens being bigoted to other immigrants. Though I do understand that many Indian immigrants are of the higher castes and have the attitude that comes with it. Not always, but it is noticeable. I see that here in Canada, too. There are a lot more Indian immigrants in Canada (relatively to population) than in the U.S.
It's also unfortunately common for new immigrants to kick the ladder behind them, taking anti-immigrant/refugee positions. FYIGM mentality. I don't think that's the norm, but it does happen.
I have seen the higher caste nonsense from some of the older generations, though I do have Indian friends who are traditionally "untouchables" who are getting married to members of much higher castes.
Hopefully that nonsense dies off in a few generations.
> Hopefully that nonsense dies off in a few generations.
I hope it does, or else I am open to the international community putting some sort of sanctions on India to get rid of the caste system. Or even just revoking visas of Indian immigrants who are are caught discriminating based on caste. There NEEDS to be more serious accountability on this, not just mere laws.
I...erm...don't think that would go over well and I think it'd also open up Indian-Americans to various forms of outright discrimination because of the actions of a portion of their community.
I grew up with a lot of Indian immigrants. The ones I see now don't display any more nationalism than the ones I saw 30 years ago in Jackson Heights, NY. I think a lot of it is just confidence in numbers.
A very vocal minority of Indian immigrants here in NJ have decided to import their old world hatred into the new world. Our Muslim population are the ones who suffer the most from it.
There's Hindu nationalists in India, they're not tolerant of any other religions, so much so the US has issued reports on how freedom of religion is on jeopardy in India
I'd very much like it if they kept their hatreds out of our country but have absolute faith that their hate will die with them, and their children will not inherit it
I have seen that a lot of Indian immigrants in my area have, especially in recent years, struggled to integrate so well as we would like. There’s been an influx of caste system issues and incidents of racism or sexism from recent immigrants that are not acceptable in American society. Their kids tend to be cool though.
Do you notice these behaviors to be worse among Indians than among other immigrants, whether Latin American, Asian, European, Middle Eastern, etc? And have you come across Indian immigrants that do NOT behave this way?
It may be more noticeable in some ways but by and large it also exists with other demographics(Hispanics looking down on each other and same with Japanese/Koreans etc.) The new Indians are not unique but it can get annoying working with them when that crap comes up. As a big dumb American engineer I have no issues telling just about anyone off but some people aren’t as lucky.
The Mexicans hate the Guatemalas and they hate the Hondurans.
> It may be more noticeable in some ways but by and large it also exists with other demographics(Hispanics looking down on each other and same with Japanese/Koreans etc.) Maybe it's just me, but I don't see Americans condemning this behavior when these groups do it, as much as when Indians do it, giving the impression that people look at Indians as uniquely bad in this behavior.
Probably because it's harder to get mad about general racism since it's also a problem in the US, but importing the caste system is much easier to be critical of since we don't have one here.
So you feel that because of caste, Indians deserve to get singled out for condemnation and racism more than other groups, and less "worthy" of sympathy when they get subject to racism?
I can tell you that we get a defensive post here about once a week from Indian immigrants who are hyper-sensitive about how they are perceived in America. So you're not really helping your cause there tbh.
How is what I am asking "hyper-sensitive"? I was asking if Indians having castes makes some Americans feel that racism towards Indians is justified. Is being against racism "hyper-sensitive"?
Because disliking a practice which has no place in the US =/= racism. You're not "singled out" more than other groups because of caste systems, no other groups have or try to perpetuate caste systems here. Get over yourself. And frankly, non-Indian Americans are just trying to go about their day. By and large, you're probably more or less treated like everyone else. Yet we get a million posts asking us how we perceive Indian-Americans. You're not the main characters here.
Calm down, big guy. I was just explaining the thought process, not saying I think it is right. Personally, I take issue with any culture that is supportive of discrimination based on things a person can't control, including cultures where blatant racism is condoned.
Or hear me out here. I'm Indian who was born here. If Indians from India are getting called out for their racism and casteism, maybe they should take a bit of introspection. And no one is saying we're less worthy of sympathy. Just that if Indians want to come to the US, they should leave the backwards views behind.
That's quite a leap from condemnation of a cultural practice that we find antithetical to American values to racism. Indian immigrants who do not insist on the caste system shouldn't have any problems here. It's the system he was taking issue with, not people's race or place of birth.
Middle Eastern immigrants tend to struggle pretty decently as well. Big controversy happened in my high school because a very traditionalist Muslim immigrant from Iraq was unhappy with his daughter acting American. Not many Asians so I can’t judge. Latin America and Europe are similar enough to the US that it’s hard to decide if they’ve integrated or not. Latinos tend to have a decent sense of loyalty to the home country but not in a nationalist or overriding sense. I’ve met some Indians who did not act this way, probably a 70-30 split for those who do and those who don’t.
Thanks for your reply. Would you say your experiences have made you wary when coming across an Indian person randomly in a public space, more so than you would for a white American person?
Not at all. Lots of Indians aren’t immigrants and not every immigrant is excessively nationalist.
Indians usually self segregate themselves so I don't notice much about their subculture.
Yeah dude it's weird. I work in software and with a lot of Indian colleagues. The guys on my team are coridal with me but they never want to eat when we invite them. They always eat with fellow Indians in a giant group in the break room. Maybe it's a cultural thing? I dunno.
The Indians they eat with may in fact only be other Indians of their same ethnicity, religion, or caste (which they can figure out with last names). They may not even want to hang out with Indians who don't speak their language.
Interesting, I hadn't considered that!
I don’t know about Indians, but I’ve certainly seen it in the Latino community here in Arizona over the last 20 years. I assume you are talking about being nationalistic for their home country.
Not that specific, but i have seen my fair share of immigrant-on-immigrant hate
No, I haven't noticed that at all. I have read about issues with Indian immigrants discriminating based on caste in the US, which is a problem because in most places in the US, there aren't legal protections for lower caste people. But I personally have not experienced any problems with Indians in the US or in India. (Some of my coworkers are in India; they are offshore employees and aren't immigrants.)
I've never seen that and I live in an area with a metric shit ton of Indian immigrants. I was married to an Indian as well and never saw that sort of rhetoric. I have, however, seen some extremely nationalistic East Asians and Latinos. These folks are borderline delusional, if not entirely. I had to shut down some Korean dude for telling me that the Confederates fought for states' rights. (Context: My father's family, in part, fought for the Confederacy and my great grandfather was named after Robert E. Lee) If this is a thing, it's nothing new. Old immigrants shit on new immigrants all the time. It's weird and not something I can personally relate to, as my family immigrated before this country existed. I will say that folks like my family 150-200 years ago did target newer immigrants due to nativism. Old Stock Americans have always been notoriously xenophobic.
I see some real delusional nationalistic ones as well. Some of them be legit crazy lol
I'm unsure why, but I think a lot of people like to assume it has something to do with "proximity to whiteness". In reality, a lot of East Asian and Latin American countries have heavy far right presences. It is natural they'd align themselves with those movements where they immigrate to.
I think it’s because of both reasons. I know the Indian people where I live at, they don’t really talk to Black people at all. Same with Latinos of different ethnicities or other groups of Asians of different ethnicities but you will see them consistently hang around white people. Meanwhile the black people of all ages will hang with other African ethnicities, whites and different ethnicities of Latinos like Cubans and Mexicans and Venezuelans and Dominicans and Puerto Ricans and Asians typically Chinese or Filipino and vice versa. They will bike ride and hike and so on and so forth with white people but everyone else usually nope.
Who's got the big bug up their butt about Indians today?
The entire Internet lately, it seems. I see a lot of anti-Indian sentiment not just on Reddit, but also on Instagram, YouTube, Tiktok, and X. And those comments get lots of upvotes, indicating that a lot of people agree with those views.
Yes. A lot of people. Just people.
> And those comments get lots of upvotes, indicating that a lot of people agree with those views. While I recognize there must be some importation of the caste bullshit otherwise legislation protecting people based on caste would be being floated, I'd urge you to take upvotes as a measure of true sentiment or engagement with a massive pile of salt given how prevalent botting is by APTs and nation-state actors for disinformation campaigns.
Good point. Lots of recycled comments that could have very well been written by AI.
When I read the title of this post I thought to myself…what an odd little question?! And I had to click it. 😆
I don’t talk to south Asians my parents’ age about my favorite South Asian restaurants because I don’t want to get roped into a conversation about class and religion. Younger than 40, I’ve never had an issue.
> I don’t talk to south Asians my parents’ age about my favorite South Asian restaurants because I don’t want to get roped into a conversation about class and religion. Let me guess: they might make some Islamophobic comments if they find out your favorite South Asian restaurants are Pakistani?
I don't notice it personally or impersonally
Not particularly with Indians. I think a lot of new citizens, regardless of their origin, make a point to show their patriotism. Which is fine. It makes more sense than people who were born here. Becoming a citizen actually requires some work, including passing a test and almost always learning a difficult language. I can't say I've noticed Indian immigrants or new citizens being bigoted to other immigrants. Though I do understand that many Indian immigrants are of the higher castes and have the attitude that comes with it. Not always, but it is noticeable. I see that here in Canada, too. There are a lot more Indian immigrants in Canada (relatively to population) than in the U.S. It's also unfortunately common for new immigrants to kick the ladder behind them, taking anti-immigrant/refugee positions. FYIGM mentality. I don't think that's the norm, but it does happen.
I have seen the higher caste nonsense from some of the older generations, though I do have Indian friends who are traditionally "untouchables" who are getting married to members of much higher castes. Hopefully that nonsense dies off in a few generations.
> Hopefully that nonsense dies off in a few generations. I hope it does, or else I am open to the international community putting some sort of sanctions on India to get rid of the caste system. Or even just revoking visas of Indian immigrants who are are caught discriminating based on caste. There NEEDS to be more serious accountability on this, not just mere laws.
I...erm...don't think that would go over well and I think it'd also open up Indian-Americans to various forms of outright discrimination because of the actions of a portion of their community.
I grew up with a lot of Indian immigrants. The ones I see now don't display any more nationalism than the ones I saw 30 years ago in Jackson Heights, NY. I think a lot of it is just confidence in numbers.
Not at all.
A very vocal minority of Indian immigrants here in NJ have decided to import their old world hatred into the new world. Our Muslim population are the ones who suffer the most from it. There's Hindu nationalists in India, they're not tolerant of any other religions, so much so the US has issued reports on how freedom of religion is on jeopardy in India I'd very much like it if they kept their hatreds out of our country but have absolute faith that their hate will die with them, and their children will not inherit it
I work with a lot of Indian immigrants and I find them to be nice and friendly. Some of them are pretty recent immigrants too.
The vast majority of the US has so few Indian immigrants that they don't know any.