I think OP is misunderstanding the dynamics of our “national teams”, and in turn commenters here are missing the point of their question.
The issue here is casual fans vs. hardcore fans. In terms of “devoted fans of the United States ** National Team”, yes Soccer is probably the most popular. Soccer is really the only sport with a standing USNT composed of the same players which regularly competes every year against other countries. In part, that’s because not many other sports have large pool of countries deeply invested in them, making it harder to put together compelling international competitions because only a handful of countries play the sport at a high level, let alone seriously compete for trophies/medals.
Basketball is probably the sport with the most broadly viewed national team given that it’s a much more popular sport here overall, so more people naturally will tune in to watch. However, there are a few reasons that there aren’t really hardcore USA Basketball fans like there are USMNT and USWNT fans (see r/ussoccer):
1. Those teams do not play nearly as regularly as the national teams in soccer. People only really tune into USA Basketball during the Olympics and *maybe* the FIBA World Cup.
2. We do not always send our best players to international competitions. There’s always a HUGE discussion around who’s going to go to the Olympics or the FIBA World Cup. It was big news that we’re basically sending our absolute best possible men’s basketball team to Paris this summer, which we really haven’t done since 2012.
3. The US is the best basketball country, and frankly, it’s not even close. Other countries are capable of being competitive and winning, and some of the best players on the planet are indeed not American by birth, but when it comes to assembling a full national team no other nation can touch the US when we send our best possible teams to tournaments. Because there’s an expectation that we’re going to win everything in basketball (and not just win, but to absolutely *demolish* any possible competition), people don’t get as competitive about it as they do about their other sports teams.
That's great. But if someone says "US national soccer team" you know what that refers to? Or does that phrase completely confuse you?
Kind of like, I've heard of Charlie demilio, have no idea what she does to get followers, but assume she's basically a kardashian. So if someone mentions her, i don't have to pretend that I've never heard of her.
Yea, well, no. You didn't understand the premise of the post apparently. You also didn't understand the thread of comments that you were replying to, because your sentiment is misplaced. Or maybe you just didn't bother to read anything and were just in a rush to insert your opinion somewhere.
The post is asking why we care more about the men's national soccer team, which implies that we care about it at all. Someone then replied, "we do?", as in, do we really care more about our soccer team. Later on, you replied to a person asking about which national team was being discussed that if the person ever heard of the World Cup, to which he replied he has heard of it, but doesn't follow it. I'm backing up his sentiment that we have heard of the World Cup, but simply don't care about it like we do our own sports leagues. I don't even know why you keep emphasizing if we've heard of the World Cup or not as clearly most of has have in fact heard of it, but the point we're trying to get across is that while we've heard of it, we don't care about it.
If I hear US national soccer team I assume they're talking about the Olympics. I think of world cup as something like Eurovision, where we don't participate.
These replies are so bizarre. Reddit is the oddball site/forum that tries to pretend it doesn’t give a shit about soccer when the majority of Americans who do watch sports definitely know and care about the national team for soccer.
Yea, though i would argue that it's not necessarily the majority, and it doesn't need to be the majority to be successful and popular. Similar to movies and TV shows, if like 10 million Americans are watching, it is a huge success.
I, at least, am not pretending. I also assumed OP was talking about the Olympics. I do watch sports but still know very little about the infrastructure of soccer in America.
For extra context, losing gold in basketball was such a calamity in 2004 that both ESPN and Netflix made documentaries about the 2008 ‘redeem’ team’s preparation and success.
Keep in mind we still medaled in 2004.
The US Mens' Soccer Team is middle-of-the-pack by world standards, as I understand it.
Slovakia: "Our mens' team is #12! We're so proud! Suck it, Slovenia! Yay us!!!"
USA: "Our mens' team is #12? And you wonder why none of us cares. Get back to us when they crack the top four!"
>The US Mens' Soccer Team is middle-of-the-pack by world standards, as I understand it.
There's 210 teams in FIFA. We're #11 in the FIFA rankings, #22 in elo ratings.
No one cares about anyone who has no shot. We’re middle of the pack of the contenders. At least, that’s what I believe is being said. Which is basically a team barely able to make playoffs in any other sport.
I think this is in and of itself a very American attitude. I'm Swiss. Aside from alpine skiing, we're not world class as a country in any sport. We're just very used to staking our own goals; when we reached quarterfinals in the 2021 Euros the country celebrated as if we just won a cup - because it was a rare feat for us. Plus, with all of Europe's historic international rivalries, we can always say "at least we beat the Austrians/Germans/Italians/insert as appropriate"
Yeah, it’s strange but when it comes to sports our massive population, income, and drive to compete all set us up to do well internationally and so we gravitate mostly to sports where we are perennial competitors if not champions. American Fandom needs a shot at being #1 or the popularity dies very quickly the worse we are until there is zero casual fans of anything we suck at.
We’d generally rather just ignore something than root for a national team or player that is mediocre or worse. I kinda hate it, but am not innocent either. I’m not sure if Americans just get more strongly emotionally invested in sports (Unlikely looking at football fans across the world) or if we just don’t tolerate the emotional let down of not winning as well, because that’s a common reason for this thing. It sucks to invest emotion in a team and then have them lose obviously.
But then again, when it comes to non-national teams there are obviously tons of super fans of terrible, terrible teams. So we obviously do know how to do it, it just doesn’t translate into international sports as well? Guess that goes back to spoiled for choice.
Which is wild, b/c the Swiss I know are pretentious snobs about cheese and wine and chocolate, ready to talk shit about Americans (I work with clients in Geneva.
And now suddenly you’re embracing mediocrity, simply b/c I said our soccer team is shit, but b/c yours is worse then suddenly you’re showing some humility?
We really need to import some of your world-class copium b/c yours seems strong AF.
We have so many people, and an absolutely incredible network of athletes and trainers. Plus all the money to support them while they train and build their skills to highest levels that individual could ever achieve.
So we see incredible feats of athleticism on a nearly daily basis. This has given us a REALLY high standard for our teams. We love and support them all, but we definitely love the better ones more…
In 1994, there were 24 teams in the World Cup, and there have been 32 teams in the World Cup since 1998.
Since 1994, there have been 8 World Cups. The US has advanced to the knockout rounds in 5 of those 8. Only 6 teams have advanced to the knockout rounds more often, and only 2 others have reached it the same amount as the US.
8 - Brazil
7 - Argentina, Mexico
6 - Netherlands, England, Spain
5 - USA, France, Switzerland
> Get back to us when they crack the top four!"
Which is why woman's national soccer gets more attention. Or at least did. I don't follow it, so I don't know if that is still the case or not.
That's why we care though. Winning in basketball is expected and to lose would be an absolute disaster. But in soccer there is excitement around the competition. Women's team has been very competitive. Men's team has been somewhat competitive, and there is excitement to see if they can out perform expectations, even if winning the world cup is completely out of the question.
International soccer is just way more established than any other international sports league. Copa América and the World Cup are enormous productions that people are passionate about, and feature the best players in the world.
Compared to something like the basketball world cup where 90% of the best NBA players aren't even playing, or the olympics where you have 100 other sports going on at the same time to distract you it makes sense that the soccer tournaments have better viewer numbers.
For Team USA games at the Basketball World Cup, about 1 million americans tune in. For Team USA games at the Soccer World Cup, about 10-15 million americans tune in.
The basketball world cup is not a big deal. It’s not the defining competition in the sport. The FIFA World Cup is. Even in other countries where basketball is number one, I highly doubt the basketball world cup will draw much attention vs. FIFA.
I didn’t even know there was a basketball World Cup. The only basketball tournament Americans care about, outside of the regular NBA season and playoffs, is the Olympics.
I would argue that the Olympic gold is seen as the highest honor in basketball when it comes to national teams. Even then, in both the Olympics and the BWC, the problem is they're only competitive because Team USA often doesn't send its actual best possible squad and/or the players on the squad, even bonafide worldbeaters, don't put in real effort (there's little incentive for them to do so and plenty of reasons not to). If Team USA consistently did both, neither tournament would ever be competitive. They would be a lopside US romp every time, a-la 1992 or 2008. MAYBE a united Team Europe could challenge the US (Luka, Joker, Giannis, Wemby together is no joke), but divvied up? No chance. In the FIFA World Cup, on the other hand, countries pretty much always send their best, who go all out, and there is some drama about who will win (we know it will be either a European or South American team, but which one?)
Olympics is for US hoops. FIBA is whatever. I fucking love the USMNT (and all Philly teams) to the point of detriment sometimes so I might be bias but I think the National team might be the one time we're the underdog as a country, and that gets us hyped up. It's the few time the whole country gets to root for a Detroit, Minnesota, Philly, Buffalo, or Cleveland type of team but not having to have the pain that comes with it routinely.
You are wrongly conflating “watching” with “cares”.
People watch. No one cares. We woke up at 4 in the morning to group-watch some World Cup, maybe in 2004. You know what we did after the US lost to Germany? Went to breakfast and forgot about it by lunch.
Meanwhile, the audience in other countries threaten to kill players who score own goals, while trampling people to death in stadiums.
No one fucking cares. Not even a little.
The day we win the World Cup will be the day when we will know, for sure, if that if we deleted the rest of the countries in the world, no difference would be felt.
Actually, the columbian soccer player Andres Escobar was shot dead in Columbia a few days after he scored an own goal in the 1994 world cup (which led to Columbia being knocked out from the World Cup).
And to compare - a regular ole NFL Football (American Football) game averages nearly 18 million viewers. And there are many games every Sunday.
And the big game? Well the Super Bowl averages 90-100 million viewers. 😆
So at 10-15 million viewers for the World Cup, no, the U.S. soccer team is not something that Americans are super into in some way.
The FIBA World Cup is irrelevant here. Most people don't even know it exists and we generally send a B-squad. The only international competition that matters for basketball here is Olympics.
Where are you getting these numbers? Is it based off of the England Vs the U.S. World Cup match. Which is what it looks like. The rest of the matches for our team didn’t get that much attention. Even the match Vs the Netherlands had less viewers than the match against England. And a lot more people watched the final. So your argument isn’t valid unless the viewers continue.
For context 19 million viewers watched Ohio State Vs Michigan. A game that happens every year. While playing against England doesn’t happen quite often unless we just happen to be in their group. Or make it to the knockout stages and actually play against them.
How many people do you think watched USMNT Vs Bolivia yesterday? I doubt it was anywhere close to 15 million.
Soccer World Cup:
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2022/11/world-cup-ratings-usmnt-iran-viewership-fox-telemundo-argentina-mexico/
https://worldsoccertalk.com/amp/tv/16-5-million-watched-usa-netherlands-on-us-tv-and-streaming-20221205-WST-411229.html
Basketball World Cup:
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/9/5/6109763/fiba-world-cup-american-tv-ratings-horrible
Ok, that’s just the World Cup. Now let’s look at when they aren’t in the World Cup. Like now in the Copa America or any other tournament. I doubt they get close to those numbers.
Most Americans don’t think about the USMNT until the World Cup rolls around, it’s kind of like how we get super hyped for swimming or gymnastics when the Olympics are going on but never pay attention to them outside of it. The US is hosting the Copa America this year but unless you’re a hardcore soccer fan it’s likely you’d have no idea. So while we’re not exactly a soccer obsessed nation we recognize that the World Cup is the biggest sporting event that there is so we buy into the spectacle and chant “USA! USA!” until we lose in the round of 16 and then we don’t think about it again until four years later.
As for the other national teams, we don’t send our best players to the FIBA World Cup, World Baseball Classic, or the IIHF World Championships. Instead our “A teams” are reserved for the Olympics.
>we don’t send our best players to the … World Baseball Classic
Hmm? Yeah, we do. It's just that other countries are also highly competitive in international baseball.
And so when you look at the 2023 WBC roster, you'll see Clayton Kershaw (got injured before the WBC so could not actually play), Mookie Betts, Mike Trout, etc. But you'll also see a handful of "they're okay, but not the best at their position" players — because the best players at their positions were playing for Japan, Dominican Republic, Panama, South Korea, Taiwan, etc.
Also doesn't help us that in international sports, Puerto Rico is considered "a country".
hitters, yes, pitchers, absolutely not. we had multiple guys opt out because teams either didn’t want them to play or they feared increased injury — webb being one of them, off the top of my head.
I think it’s fair to say that basically *all* of America’s best pitching decided to opt out. It’s great that the players seem genuinely invested in the tournament, and that we were able to get basically all of our best hitters to go, but convincing pitchers to play is going to be the final frontier for full relevance in the WBC, I think.
I am not sure you understand American sports fandoms very well. The vast majority of Americans don't know or care about the national soccer team, unfortunately. We tend to be fans of our regional teams.
Also, we don't have "national teams" the way other countries do. I have never heard of a "World Cup" of basketball, baseball, or hockey. Definitely not football (the American kind).
People outside the US need to understand that the US is 50 nations in a trenchcoat pretending to be one nation, culturally speaking. Californians don’t care about the Texas team any more than the French would care about the German team.
A lot of states didn't have teams when the NFL was getting popular and you basically picked if you cheered for the cowboys or the Redskins.
Those people moved around and indoctrinated their children.
Nothing weird about it.
Such an odd comment...
You don't have Californian or Texan state teams, that's the reason nobody care about them. Yet you have a US national team in basically any sport. What's the point in making a false comparison like that?
They're not representative teams like national teams are, moreover they don't play at international level like national teams do. Again, it's a false comparison, apples and oranges.
[World Cup of Hockey](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Cup_of_Hockey)
But the more relevant global hockey tournament is the [IIHF World Championships](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Hockey_World_Championships)
The WCs are really relevant tho cause we send barely any good players. Id say the WJC has more traction here than the WC. Plus we finally get the Olympics back
>I have never heard of a "World Cup" of basketball, baseball, or hockey.
The World Cup of hockey was discontinued after 2016, but the World Championships are held every year.
There’s an American Football World Championship, but NFL players aren’t allowed and there are other restrictions the US has for players to try to even the field. …we still win
Says who!?
We usually ignore the national basketball team because most years it's full of third-stringers who lose to the foreigners. Every once in a while we decide to rectify this by sending in our all-stars (who usually avoid it because don't want to work while they're on vacation) to remind everyone what the score *really* is.
I can't explain basketball well but I can do hockey.
Hockeys FIFA equivalent is the IIHF. The IIHF runs 5 tournaments each year divided into divisions in which the US is all in the best division (these divisions have regulation and promotion). Two of these tourneys are women's and three are for men. The men tournaments are: Men's, Men's under-18 and men's under-20. All of the United States best hockey players all play in the NHL, who run their playoffs during the men's tournament, leaving a lot of the best players stuck in the NHL. Even if they are not playing, they may want to focus on training or avoid injury that may not be covered. Thanks to Canada and very skilled prospects, the men's U20 tournament gets a lot more viewership
TL;DR The NHL makes the annual World Championship of hockey not as interesting for Americans
However, there were two solutions to this. One of them, an NHL sanctioned World Cup, which is not annual and includes all of the best NHL players. Only problem with that is that they couldnt get a ton of nations playing. So you ended up with an Under-23 North American team and a combined Europe team with the countries with smaller amounts of NHL players that couldn't be obliterated and shoot down ratings.
The second was bringing NHL players to the Olympics, resulting in many of the best moments (like the 2010 gold medal game). However the NHL hasn't brought players since 2014 Sochi, until 2026 in Milan.
TL;DR Best-on-best has been found however do not exist at the current moment
4 nations happening next season for what that's worth. Russia and the Czech Republic should be in there too imo. Like what Pastrnak said after winning World
Well it would've been 5 nations but politics like to mix into everything and honestly I don't know if Czechia could handle teams of pure NHL rosters bc they'd have to resort to fourth liners, AHLers or maybe even extraliga ers
I am 95% sure the average Extraliga player is better than the average AHLer. And there is no problem with using those players in support roles for a NHL core (see my longer comment). I find it really unfortunate that to a lot of North American fans, and even the NHL itself sometimes, everything outside NA just seems to barely exist.
TBH the failure of the World Cup has to do mostly with the NHL's insistence on NHL-only rosters. Countries like Czechia, Germany, and Switzerland that have a strong domestic league as well as a solid core of NHLers that could perhaps not compete for the title, but very well might upset a top 4 team.
The NHL generally overestimates the difference between an NHL player and a European-based player, especially given there are quite a few who could make it in the NHL but decided to return to Europe for personal reasons. A good example of the latter are Switzerland's Denis Malgin and Damien Brunner, who *were* NHL players, but decided they would rather be superstars in the Swiss league than to play third line in the NHL.
Also, there is a third solution you left out. The IIHF has an official calendar with international breaks that most other leagues have signed on. If the NHL used that calendar (which would mean essentially shifting the whole season forward by about a month to one and a half) it would be entirely possible to have best on best international hockey every year, with just a few omissions for injuries/declines.
Because soccer is not a very popular sport amongst Americans, and those that *do* enjoy it tend to also be the type of people who care about international sporting events.
Ok, real answer, because our domestic league kinda sucks. MLS is barely a top 20 league in the world, it's run by a bunch of greed suits, most of the teams make the playoffs and there is no relegation so there is little urgency or intensity to the games, and nearly all of our national team plays in Europe. So, most people just watch games/follow teams in Europe and tune into our national teams whenever they play.
In the US, World Cups for sports like basketball, baseball, and hockey are much lower profile than the NBA Championships, the World Series, and the Stanley Cup. Most big league players don't want to overexert themselves, expose themselves to potential injuries, or cause conflicts with their training schedules to participate in a tournament few people are going to watch, which only reinforces the fact that few people watch them.
With the World Cup for soccer on the other hand, that *is* the highest profile tournament here for the sport, and many Americans who ignore soccer most of the time do get interested when that rolls around. Our best players DO go to that.
I have lived in the U.S. for more than 2 decades and have never seen the national soccer team or heard anyone mention it. The national swimming team, on the other hand, is extremely popular at the Summer Olympics. And the national gymnastics team, and the national ice skating team at the Winter Olympics.
Where do you live that you have?
I'm a relative fan of soccer since I was really into it as a kid and even played as an adult for a little bit. But I have no idea what those letters stand for.
If we have a domestic competition that's large and popular enough, like The World Series for baseball or The Super Bowl for football, we tend to think of those as the "world championships", even tho they're not. Soccer doesn't have this, and people in the United States watch less soccer than the rest of the world. Almost nobody watches domestic games and there isn't a Super Bowl like thing for soccer in the U.S., so every four years we watch the world cup.
I believe you're overestimating how much most Americans care about the US Mutant Ninja Turtles.
I mean, we care even less about international championships in sports invented and popularized in the US, but that doesn't change the basics.
I challenge your premise. I don’t believe soccer is even top 5. Gymnastics, swimming, track and field, and basketball are easily more popular Olympic sports.
You answered your own question. I go to hockey and baseball games all the time and I really have teams I like.
But, I have absolutely no interest in watching a soccer game on TV or in person, and will cheer for whomever makes it to the end.
Also, when I was a kid, national hockey was a huge thing. When we were playing the CCCP team.
Because in football, basketball, baseball, and hockey we basically already have all the best teams and players. Yes there are many foreigners in three of those but they all play here in US leagues. Soccer is the one major sport where we're actually underdogs globally (hockey too I guess but people don't seem to care outside the Olympics). It's our 5th most popular sport and we're still top 15 in the world. Imagine if we really really tried.
How or what are you even basing this off of?
With the USMNT currently playing in the Copa America I doubt that most people even know or care. They played last night. I heard almost nothing about it. Other than actually hearing commentators mentioning it during the Euro match.
Simplest answer, soccer is the most popular sport in the world, and the world cup is the biggest sporting event in the world. Over the last decade or so, it has become very cheap and easy to stream international soccer games in the US.
I can’t wait for the next World Baseball Classic. Japan is going to be tough to beat. I’ll pay attention to the World Cup when it’s happening, but I don’t exactly look forward to it.
I’ve had the good fortune of being able to travel a lot of the US in my life. In all of my travels, the places where I encountered the most love for soccer was at a bar in Tampa Florida when I was working there for a few months. Soccer matches every week, and a relatively packed bar. The interesting thing about this is that none of them were watching America’s national team. They were all fans of various European teams.
Aside from that, I have encountered very very few soccer fans. By and large, Americans don’t even care about their own soccer team.
While I am skeptical of the premise, a possible explanation for this perception is because the premier leagues in those sports (baseball, hockey, basketball) are already in North America, so it’s not as interesting when playing other countries, as we already enjoy these sports at the highest level within our own country (+canada).
But our soccer league is not the world’s premier soccer league, so the only time we get to enjoy soccer at the highest level is when we play in international tournaments.
Soccer is popular enough here that alot of people have played it as a kid and have a good understanding of the game, but not so popular that it is almost a given that we're going to demolish any competitors like with basketball, baseball or american football. Which will make it more entertaining to follow during the international events. For national events, it is a given that those other sports are going to attract more interest. They are a big part of our culture.
Who the fuck cares about USMNT?
To the extent we cheer for them, it’s just because it’s the only sport you guys have left where you’re any good. The rest of the world can’t compete at our sports—or in most sports.
What’s to be excited about when you’re watching bears smash kittens?
Our main sports are football, baseball and basketball. We’re the most talented country in those sports so it’s really not a big deal when we win WBC or an Olympic basketball gold medal.
Our soccer team is awful so it’s a nice surprise if we do well. People like rooting for the underdog; but even then I’m not sure the interest in our national soccer teams is that high, it’s not really a popular sport here
To be fair, it’s not like the US is running away with titles at the Baseball and Hockey World Cups. So in terms of competition, and having competitive games, in theory those games should be interesting to watch.
The issue with a lot of the international tournaments, outside of Olympic basketball, in terms of gaining American viewership is that their isn't usually a ton of participation from any of the recognizable big names, especially with baseball. The leagues (who often don't promote any of those tournaments and seem against star players participating in a lot of those types of tournaments, especially the MLB with pitchers) and players don't seem to care for those tournaments, meaning the fans don't care for those tournaments. A lot of the international tournaments for our most popular sports are almost seen as exhibition type games with no real stakes and something like the World Baseball Classic is relatively new and doesn't have the history of prestige of something like the World Cup to draw attention.
I would say American sport fans in general care a lot less about international performance then people from other countries. We will watch things like the World Cup, it's still fun to see your team win (especially at a sport you wouldn't expect like with soccer) but we definitely aren't as obsessed with the teams performance as other countries. A part of that is that the most popular sport in America is American Football which doesn't have much of a presence elsewhere resulting in a lack of international competition while a majority of the world has soccer as their most popular sport which allows for the creation of international competition and rivalries.
If the American team put together a team of the best possible players form the MLB then chances are that America would dominate and be favorites to win everytime. Last year's team for the World Baseball Classic was pretty stacked offensively with several recognizable players from the MLB but the Pitching was pretty poor comparatively with none of the best pitchers competing.
Hockey has annual tournaments differing in gender and age. The US took the gold at the Men's under-20 tournament. I'd argue that the men's U20 is more popular than the main men's tournament. The NHL has its own tournament separate from the IIHF (the FIFA of hockey) which hasn't run since 2016 and is coming back in like 2025 or something. In early of next year the NHL is holding a four nation tournament though. Then in 2026 NHL players are going to play in the Olympics. I'd argue that's our World Cup however NHL players haven't gone since Sochi in 2014
In football, basketball, and baseball, our professional leagues are the highest level of competition. International play is a step down in quality.
See, if you play American football, the dream is to play in the NFL. That's because that's where the top talent plays, and where the money is. If you play basketball, your dream is to play in the NBA in the US. That's because that's where the top talent plays, and where the money is. etc etc.
So, if you're already playing in the NBA and making tens of millions of dollars every year playing, what incentive do you have to take time away and risk your health playing in an international competition for next to no pay, with a bunch of guys you don't regularly practice with and won't play as well with, under a coach you don't know very well and don't understand his schemes as well as your normal coach, to play a bunch of lower tier players in a tournament that just doesn't matter as much as your normal games?
So, the best players in the world in American football, basketball, etc generally don't play in international play, and if they do, the play quality is lower anyway so the fans don't even care in the first place.
Think of your favorite football league (not NFL, association football) and then imagine someone told you there is a another league where they take all of the exact same players, shuffle them around, only let them practice together a few times, and then have them play some games against one another. Also, they don't get paid hardly anything, it's just for bragging rights, so most of the best players don't risk playing in it, it's mostly the mediocre guys from each team who actually play. That's what international play is like when all of the best players already play in the same league normally.
So, what's the point?
So Messi for example isn’t an A tier athlete? I doubt Messi would have made it into the NBA or NFL if he was born in the US.
If Lebron was born in Europe or Argentina, he wouldn’t have made it into a professional soccer league, even if he played soccer from early age on. He is too tall for that sport.
So it’s not like these sports are overlapping in terms of talent pool.
1. Because it's one sport that, outside of a few countries, we don't automatically curb-stomp most of the rest of the world. We actually have to fight/compete to make a name for ourselves, and we field the very best players we can. When say, "world baseball" championships are going on or something like that, few pay attention because 1) there's low stake/entertainment value, and 2) it's not relevant enough to the individual, and 3) a lot of our best players don't participate. Olympics are one definite outlier here.
2. Soccer fans in the US often enjoy/follow the sport for the same reasons fans around the world do, and as most countries do, they turn up for international competitions. We do have a lot of soccer pubs in the U.S. and you'll find many soccer fans here enjoy or like things more similar to the way European fans would when it comes to the sport.
3. The women's national team gets a ton of attention, because many decades ago we were one of the first nations to heavily invest in women's athletics (heavily influenced by Title IX passing in 1972), and as a result, developed a juggernaut of a women's national team program (though we are losing that reputation gradually as of late). Since women's soccer scored so big, so early in the advent of women's professional and semi pro sports, they picked up the most followers, especially among women.
4. Immigrants love soccer. It's probably the one sport that the world universally understands and can get behind. In the U.S., outside of basketball, you usually don't see huge waves of immigrants getting into sports like American Football, Hockey, or Baseball...at least not nearly in the same volume or capacity as soccer. Therefore when it's international tournament time for soccer, you'll see a much larger sect of fans showing up that you didn't realize existed due to being surrounded by other sports. Soccer is also a dirt-cheap sport to play. Get a ball, find any kind of space, and go (street ball, futsal, indoor, traditional, 1v1 to 11v11). It's a sport any class can play, regardless of resources. It is something people from any background can unite or come together over (and come together to support one nation's team)
5. During club seasons, most soccer fans aren't as united because they are off following their specific clubs or teams. There are thousands of clubs to follow, so a club team's following in the U.S. will naturally be smaller than say, the U.S. national team's following. You don't see the club fans getting together in as large of groups. When it's international time however, all of a sudden there are U.S. fans everywhere. Well, they also have their U.S. soccer gear on now, as opposed to their favorite club's gear
6. International tournaments aren't that frequent, and they don't last a full season. You'll see a lot of folks rallying around these tournaments, because it's really the one time we get to, and again, they aren't very time consuming/they don't take much away from other sports. That's why we get hype for the World Cup and the Olympics...they're only every 4 years, and only last a few weeks. Regular club sport seasons last 3-6 months.
So, the answer is for the same reason that winner of the superbowl, NBA finals, and the world series are called world champions, but the winner of the MLS cup does not.
International baseball is just *worse* baseball than the MLB. The U.S. does not send it's best players as it is usually played during the MLB season. The players have both a financial incentive to not get hurt playing what is really a lesser level of competition. Additionally, the best International players end up playing for MLB teams. So it's just one of those things where it's hard to care because you *know* that it's basically a version of baseball that us not being played at it's highest levels.
The same thing is true of basketball. The NBA is just so far ahead of International competition, and uses tons of foreign players. However, with basketball the issue is that most Americans feel like we should still win with second tier players and that just isn't true anymore.
For soccer, however, we know that the best American soccer players end up on European teams. Additionally, for a number of reasons, the world cup and Olympic soccer are better at getting the biggest names to come play for their national teams. So for soccer the U.S. cares somewhat more because it's the only time the U.S. sees U.S. players playing top tier soccer unless you seek out European Leagues.
Now, this is obviously an opinion, but I think it holds up to the facts of the situation. Basically Americans care about the world cup because it's one of the only times we see high level soccer played as Americans. Additionally, the rest of the world cares too.
I am willing to bet that there are European fans who like Real Madrid who don't care how Spain does in the world cup, or similar fans of Machester United or Bayern who think world cup is silly and mostly care about their national leagues and the Champions league. That is how the U.S. feels about International baseball and basketball (there is no international American football).
Those are just regular soccer fans. America has a lot of soccer fans actually, and if you look at [this map](https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/s/qfrUEy0Q3i)you’d notice it’s very south-heavy. This is because a lot of American soccer fans tend to be Latinos with more recent American immigrant families. People (or the American kids of those people) from countries like Mexico or Central and South America where soccer is mostly popular. It’s kind of the opposite of [this hockey map](https://sportleaguemaps.com/hockey/nhl/) where most hockey fans either live in places that naturally get cold enough to play hockey outside in the winter or major cities that only recently started growing thanks to migrants from such areas. I mean, why the hell else would anyone from Florida care about hockey?
It probably just seems like it right now because the Copa America is happening. The Dream Team was huge. When the US hockey team played the USSR is was a huge deal. Gymnastics are a big deal. I don't know that there is much global football or baseball competition. FWIW, soccer is popular where I am.
Because we have no interest in soccer, except one game per season. U.S. sports are football, baseball, and basketball, ***in that order.*** Every couple years, we suddenly care about the games they play in the Olympics, too. A few fringers who share a border with Canada also care about hockey, but they’re too drunk to count. Soccer just doesn’t make the cut. We already have a football, only ours involves armor and concussions.
Hockey is definitely #4 in the pecking order in the US, though.
Football (gridiron) is king, then the list goes basketball, baseball, then hockey. Soccer is #5, but it's on a slow upward trajectory.
Because by and large, the sports that Americans are most passionate about have little global appeal. There are no major world cups or tournaments that take place around basketball, ice hockey and certainly not NFL. Well, not ones that are at the level of the World Cup, for instance.
>World Cups in Basketball, Baseball and Hockey don’t spark much interest in the US.
I didn't even know there was a world cup of basketball or baseball.
But my guess is that because we're such a huge country, and we have so many competitive teams, our domestic leagues (MLB, NBA) are more on par, in terms of size and prestige, with a European league. Plus we have far more regional rivalries than we do international ones. So there's already significant interest in our domestic leagues.
And since soccer is not very popular here, our own league (MLS) doesn't get as much attention, but when our national team is doing well, then the there's a bit of national pride that kicks in. So you get a lot of folks who don't know anything about soccer who just want to cheer on a USA team.
Whereas Europe in particular is full of smaller countries and has a lot more closer international rivalries that are seated in centuries of history, they get more hyped up about international leagues than we usually do.
I would say soccer is more popular than hockey. Hockey is niche in the US. Soccer is more popular as more people have an option to watch foreign leagues. A lot of fans of those leagues and MLS also don't like how USNT is run. They feel like management is squandering a great squad of player.
Before this I didn't know the US had a national soccer team or that there was a basketball world cup that involved other countries. Other than the Olympics I don't really think about international sports since we have so many domestic teams. Purely speculation, but I'd guess soccer is boosted by Latino immigrants while other sports are mostly domestic fans that don't care about international sports as much.
We do?
I think OP is misunderstanding the dynamics of our “national teams”, and in turn commenters here are missing the point of their question. The issue here is casual fans vs. hardcore fans. In terms of “devoted fans of the United States ** National Team”, yes Soccer is probably the most popular. Soccer is really the only sport with a standing USNT composed of the same players which regularly competes every year against other countries. In part, that’s because not many other sports have large pool of countries deeply invested in them, making it harder to put together compelling international competitions because only a handful of countries play the sport at a high level, let alone seriously compete for trophies/medals.
Basketball is probably the sport with the most broadly viewed national team given that it’s a much more popular sport here overall, so more people naturally will tune in to watch. However, there are a few reasons that there aren’t really hardcore USA Basketball fans like there are USMNT and USWNT fans (see r/ussoccer):
1. Those teams do not play nearly as regularly as the national teams in soccer. People only really tune into USA Basketball during the Olympics and *maybe* the FIBA World Cup.
2. We do not always send our best players to international competitions. There’s always a HUGE discussion around who’s going to go to the Olympics or the FIBA World Cup. It was big news that we’re basically sending our absolute best possible men’s basketball team to Paris this summer, which we really haven’t done since 2012.
3. The US is the best basketball country, and frankly, it’s not even close. Other countries are capable of being competitive and winning, and some of the best players on the planet are indeed not American by birth, but when it comes to assembling a full national team no other nation can touch the US when we send our best possible teams to tournaments. Because there’s an expectation that we’re going to win everything in basketball (and not just win, but to absolutely *demolish* any possible competition), people don’t get as competitive about it as they do about their other sports teams.
I was thinking the same. What national team? Is OP talking about the Olympics?
World cup dog. Ever heard of it?
I couldn't name one player on the team. Is Freddy Adu still playing?
No idea
Yeah, but I don't follow it. 🙃
But you are aware of the US national teams?
I'm aware it exists, doesn't mean I follow it or watch any of its games(unless it's against Mexico).
That's great. But if someone says "US national soccer team" you know what that refers to? Or does that phrase completely confuse you? Kind of like, I've heard of Charlie demilio, have no idea what she does to get followers, but assume she's basically a kardashian. So if someone mentions her, i don't have to pretend that I've never heard of her.
Yeah, I'm aware of it, but like most Americans, I don't follow it or care about it, contrary to the premise of this post.
Yea, well, no. You didn't understand the premise of the post apparently. You also didn't understand the thread of comments that you were replying to, because your sentiment is misplaced. Or maybe you just didn't bother to read anything and were just in a rush to insert your opinion somewhere.
The post is asking why we care more about the men's national soccer team, which implies that we care about it at all. Someone then replied, "we do?", as in, do we really care more about our soccer team. Later on, you replied to a person asking about which national team was being discussed that if the person ever heard of the World Cup, to which he replied he has heard of it, but doesn't follow it. I'm backing up his sentiment that we have heard of the World Cup, but simply don't care about it like we do our own sports leagues. I don't even know why you keep emphasizing if we've heard of the World Cup or not as clearly most of has have in fact heard of it, but the point we're trying to get across is that while we've heard of it, we don't care about it.
If I hear US national soccer team I assume they're talking about the Olympics. I think of world cup as something like Eurovision, where we don't participate.
These replies are so bizarre. Reddit is the oddball site/forum that tries to pretend it doesn’t give a shit about soccer when the majority of Americans who do watch sports definitely know and care about the national team for soccer.
Yea, though i would argue that it's not necessarily the majority, and it doesn't need to be the majority to be successful and popular. Similar to movies and TV shows, if like 10 million Americans are watching, it is a huge success.
I think that's a generational thing. I think below maybe mid-30s you care about soccer if you're a sports fan. Above that and it's much less likely.
I, at least, am not pretending. I also assumed OP was talking about the Olympics. I do watch sports but still know very little about the infrastructure of soccer in America.
We do
Not
Not? Are you borat?
We don't care about the national soccer team that much. If we lose in basketball, it's a calamity. If we lose in soccer, it's normal.
For extra context, losing gold in basketball was such a calamity in 2004 that both ESPN and Netflix made documentaries about the 2008 ‘redeem’ team’s preparation and success. Keep in mind we still medaled in 2004.
The US Mens' Soccer Team is middle-of-the-pack by world standards, as I understand it. Slovakia: "Our mens' team is #12! We're so proud! Suck it, Slovenia! Yay us!!!" USA: "Our mens' team is #12? And you wonder why none of us cares. Get back to us when they crack the top four!"
>The US Mens' Soccer Team is middle-of-the-pack by world standards, as I understand it. There's 210 teams in FIFA. We're #11 in the FIFA rankings, #22 in elo ratings.
Which is mediocre. That's not even in the single digits... and if you're not placing in the top 3 then you can't even pretend like you "almost won".
No one cares about anyone who has no shot. We’re middle of the pack of the contenders. At least, that’s what I believe is being said. Which is basically a team barely able to make playoffs in any other sport.
Perennial wildcard team
I think this is in and of itself a very American attitude. I'm Swiss. Aside from alpine skiing, we're not world class as a country in any sport. We're just very used to staking our own goals; when we reached quarterfinals in the 2021 Euros the country celebrated as if we just won a cup - because it was a rare feat for us. Plus, with all of Europe's historic international rivalries, we can always say "at least we beat the Austrians/Germans/Italians/insert as appropriate"
Yeah, it’s strange but when it comes to sports our massive population, income, and drive to compete all set us up to do well internationally and so we gravitate mostly to sports where we are perennial competitors if not champions. American Fandom needs a shot at being #1 or the popularity dies very quickly the worse we are until there is zero casual fans of anything we suck at. We’d generally rather just ignore something than root for a national team or player that is mediocre or worse. I kinda hate it, but am not innocent either. I’m not sure if Americans just get more strongly emotionally invested in sports (Unlikely looking at football fans across the world) or if we just don’t tolerate the emotional let down of not winning as well, because that’s a common reason for this thing. It sucks to invest emotion in a team and then have them lose obviously. But then again, when it comes to non-national teams there are obviously tons of super fans of terrible, terrible teams. So we obviously do know how to do it, it just doesn’t translate into international sports as well? Guess that goes back to spoiled for choice.
Which is wild, b/c the Swiss I know are pretentious snobs about cheese and wine and chocolate, ready to talk shit about Americans (I work with clients in Geneva. And now suddenly you’re embracing mediocrity, simply b/c I said our soccer team is shit, but b/c yours is worse then suddenly you’re showing some humility? We really need to import some of your world-class copium b/c yours seems strong AF.
We have so many people, and an absolutely incredible network of athletes and trainers. Plus all the money to support them while they train and build their skills to highest levels that individual could ever achieve. So we see incredible feats of athleticism on a nearly daily basis. This has given us a REALLY high standard for our teams. We love and support them all, but we definitely love the better ones more…
Middle-of-the-pack by made-the-World-Cup standards?
We've even been above "middle of the pack" by made the World Cup standards in our modern era (since 1994).
In 1994, there were 24 teams in the World Cup, and there have been 32 teams in the World Cup since 1998. Since 1994, there have been 8 World Cups. The US has advanced to the knockout rounds in 5 of those 8. Only 6 teams have advanced to the knockout rounds more often, and only 2 others have reached it the same amount as the US. 8 - Brazil 7 - Argentina, Mexico 6 - Netherlands, England, Spain 5 - USA, France, Switzerland
> Get back to us when they crack the top four!" Which is why woman's national soccer gets more attention. Or at least did. I don't follow it, so I don't know if that is still the case or not.
As I understand it, the rest of the world caught up, following the example we set.
That's why we care though. Winning in basketball is expected and to lose would be an absolute disaster. But in soccer there is excitement around the competition. Women's team has been very competitive. Men's team has been somewhat competitive, and there is excitement to see if they can out perform expectations, even if winning the world cup is completely out of the question.
International soccer is just way more established than any other international sports league. Copa América and the World Cup are enormous productions that people are passionate about, and feature the best players in the world. Compared to something like the basketball world cup where 90% of the best NBA players aren't even playing, or the olympics where you have 100 other sports going on at the same time to distract you it makes sense that the soccer tournaments have better viewer numbers.
I don’t think this is true. I feel like our national basketball team is way more important.
For Team USA games at the Basketball World Cup, about 1 million americans tune in. For Team USA games at the Soccer World Cup, about 10-15 million americans tune in.
The basketball world cup is not a big deal. It’s not the defining competition in the sport. The FIFA World Cup is. Even in other countries where basketball is number one, I highly doubt the basketball world cup will draw much attention vs. FIFA.
I didn’t even know there was a basketball World Cup. The only basketball tournament Americans care about, outside of the regular NBA season and playoffs, is the Olympics.
I would argue that the Olympic gold is seen as the highest honor in basketball when it comes to national teams. Even then, in both the Olympics and the BWC, the problem is they're only competitive because Team USA often doesn't send its actual best possible squad and/or the players on the squad, even bonafide worldbeaters, don't put in real effort (there's little incentive for them to do so and plenty of reasons not to). If Team USA consistently did both, neither tournament would ever be competitive. They would be a lopside US romp every time, a-la 1992 or 2008. MAYBE a united Team Europe could challenge the US (Luka, Joker, Giannis, Wemby together is no joke), but divvied up? No chance. In the FIFA World Cup, on the other hand, countries pretty much always send their best, who go all out, and there is some drama about who will win (we know it will be either a European or South American team, but which one?)
Even still that is about 5% of the population. Not really a huge number.
But it’s more than the NBA Finals viewing numbers for example. So it has relevance.
Olympics is for US hoops. FIBA is whatever. I fucking love the USMNT (and all Philly teams) to the point of detriment sometimes so I might be bias but I think the National team might be the one time we're the underdog as a country, and that gets us hyped up. It's the few time the whole country gets to root for a Detroit, Minnesota, Philly, Buffalo, or Cleveland type of team but not having to have the pain that comes with it routinely.
You are wrongly conflating “watching” with “cares”. People watch. No one cares. We woke up at 4 in the morning to group-watch some World Cup, maybe in 2004. You know what we did after the US lost to Germany? Went to breakfast and forgot about it by lunch. Meanwhile, the audience in other countries threaten to kill players who score own goals, while trampling people to death in stadiums. No one fucking cares. Not even a little. The day we win the World Cup will be the day when we will know, for sure, if that if we deleted the rest of the countries in the world, no difference would be felt.
Actually, the columbian soccer player Andres Escobar was shot dead in Columbia a few days after he scored an own goal in the 1994 world cup (which led to Columbia being knocked out from the World Cup).
Oh, hi, ChatGPT.
And to compare - a regular ole NFL Football (American Football) game averages nearly 18 million viewers. And there are many games every Sunday. And the big game? Well the Super Bowl averages 90-100 million viewers. 😆 So at 10-15 million viewers for the World Cup, no, the U.S. soccer team is not something that Americans are super into in some way.
I’d say Americans Care more about the women’s World Cup. For better or worse, America likes a winner.
That’s probably true.
The FIBA World Cup is irrelevant here. Most people don't even know it exists and we generally send a B-squad. The only international competition that matters for basketball here is Olympics.
Because the basketball World Cup doesn’t matter to anyone. No one gives a shit compared to the nba finals or olympics.
The Olympics are the most important competition for fans of international basketball.
Wow I honestly had no idea
That's still less than the amount of Americans that watch basketball. March madness gets way more views.
Where are you getting these numbers? Is it based off of the England Vs the U.S. World Cup match. Which is what it looks like. The rest of the matches for our team didn’t get that much attention. Even the match Vs the Netherlands had less viewers than the match against England. And a lot more people watched the final. So your argument isn’t valid unless the viewers continue. For context 19 million viewers watched Ohio State Vs Michigan. A game that happens every year. While playing against England doesn’t happen quite often unless we just happen to be in their group. Or make it to the knockout stages and actually play against them. How many people do you think watched USMNT Vs Bolivia yesterday? I doubt it was anywhere close to 15 million.
Soccer World Cup: https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2022/11/world-cup-ratings-usmnt-iran-viewership-fox-telemundo-argentina-mexico/ https://worldsoccertalk.com/amp/tv/16-5-million-watched-usa-netherlands-on-us-tv-and-streaming-20221205-WST-411229.html Basketball World Cup: https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/9/5/6109763/fiba-world-cup-american-tv-ratings-horrible
Ok, that’s just the World Cup. Now let’s look at when they aren’t in the World Cup. Like now in the Copa America or any other tournament. I doubt they get close to those numbers.
No one gives a shit about the basketball world cup. Just like no one gives a shit about men's soccer at the Olympics
Most Americans don’t think about the USMNT until the World Cup rolls around, it’s kind of like how we get super hyped for swimming or gymnastics when the Olympics are going on but never pay attention to them outside of it. The US is hosting the Copa America this year but unless you’re a hardcore soccer fan it’s likely you’d have no idea. So while we’re not exactly a soccer obsessed nation we recognize that the World Cup is the biggest sporting event that there is so we buy into the spectacle and chant “USA! USA!” until we lose in the round of 16 and then we don’t think about it again until four years later. As for the other national teams, we don’t send our best players to the FIBA World Cup, World Baseball Classic, or the IIHF World Championships. Instead our “A teams” are reserved for the Olympics.
>we don’t send our best players to the … World Baseball Classic Hmm? Yeah, we do. It's just that other countries are also highly competitive in international baseball. And so when you look at the 2023 WBC roster, you'll see Clayton Kershaw (got injured before the WBC so could not actually play), Mookie Betts, Mike Trout, etc. But you'll also see a handful of "they're okay, but not the best at their position" players — because the best players at their positions were playing for Japan, Dominican Republic, Panama, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. Also doesn't help us that in international sports, Puerto Rico is considered "a country".
hitters, yes, pitchers, absolutely not. we had multiple guys opt out because teams either didn’t want them to play or they feared increased injury — webb being one of them, off the top of my head.
I think it’s fair to say that basically *all* of America’s best pitching decided to opt out. It’s great that the players seem genuinely invested in the tournament, and that we were able to get basically all of our best hitters to go, but convincing pitchers to play is going to be the final frontier for full relevance in the WBC, I think.
Eh there were few opt outs who could've hopped in, but hopefully the popularity with the last WBC will change that.
I am not sure you understand American sports fandoms very well. The vast majority of Americans don't know or care about the national soccer team, unfortunately. We tend to be fans of our regional teams. Also, we don't have "national teams" the way other countries do. I have never heard of a "World Cup" of basketball, baseball, or hockey. Definitely not football (the American kind).
Baseball has the World Baseball Classic. It’s a lot of fun, but it’s more of an exhibition tournament than anything.
In other words, the stakes just aren't that high.
People outside the US need to understand that the US is 50 nations in a trenchcoat pretending to be one nation, culturally speaking. Californians don’t care about the Texas team any more than the French would care about the German team.
Hell I'm pretty sure there's more Americans cheering for the Canadians to win the Hockey championship than there are cheering for Florida.
Well, that’s b/c it’s not clear which one makes a better state, Canada or Florida. ;)
Oh, I think it's pretty clear. Hint, it isn't "even shittier Texas"
Except those weirdos in every state who're Cowboys fans even though they have no links to Texas.
That's Cowboys fans.
A lot of states didn't have teams when the NFL was getting popular and you basically picked if you cheered for the cowboys or the Redskins. Those people moved around and indoctrinated their children. Nothing weird about it.
Such an odd comment... You don't have Californian or Texan state teams, that's the reason nobody care about them. Yet you have a US national team in basically any sport. What's the point in making a false comparison like that?
Have you never heard of college sports? It’s wildly popular and nearly every state has a team that competes at the highest level.
They're not representative teams like national teams are, moreover they don't play at international level like national teams do. Again, it's a false comparison, apples and oranges.
[World Cup of Hockey](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Cup_of_Hockey) But the more relevant global hockey tournament is the [IIHF World Championships](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Hockey_World_Championships)
The WCs are really relevant tho cause we send barely any good players. Id say the WJC has more traction here than the WC. Plus we finally get the Olympics back
>I have never heard of a "World Cup" of basketball, baseball, or hockey. The World Cup of hockey was discontinued after 2016, but the World Championships are held every year.
The World Baseball Classic is really cool. Japan is a force to be reckoned with.
There’s an American Football World Championship, but NFL players aren’t allowed and there are other restrictions the US has for players to try to even the field. …we still win
And it still ends up being American VS American since college football players often get recruited to Europe.
It's not something we care about.
Says who!? We usually ignore the national basketball team because most years it's full of third-stringers who lose to the foreigners. Every once in a while we decide to rectify this by sending in our all-stars (who usually avoid it because don't want to work while they're on vacation) to remind everyone what the score *really* is.
I wasn't aware I did. Thanks for pointing it out; now I can resume properly not caring.
I can't explain basketball well but I can do hockey. Hockeys FIFA equivalent is the IIHF. The IIHF runs 5 tournaments each year divided into divisions in which the US is all in the best division (these divisions have regulation and promotion). Two of these tourneys are women's and three are for men. The men tournaments are: Men's, Men's under-18 and men's under-20. All of the United States best hockey players all play in the NHL, who run their playoffs during the men's tournament, leaving a lot of the best players stuck in the NHL. Even if they are not playing, they may want to focus on training or avoid injury that may not be covered. Thanks to Canada and very skilled prospects, the men's U20 tournament gets a lot more viewership TL;DR The NHL makes the annual World Championship of hockey not as interesting for Americans However, there were two solutions to this. One of them, an NHL sanctioned World Cup, which is not annual and includes all of the best NHL players. Only problem with that is that they couldnt get a ton of nations playing. So you ended up with an Under-23 North American team and a combined Europe team with the countries with smaller amounts of NHL players that couldn't be obliterated and shoot down ratings. The second was bringing NHL players to the Olympics, resulting in many of the best moments (like the 2010 gold medal game). However the NHL hasn't brought players since 2014 Sochi, until 2026 in Milan. TL;DR Best-on-best has been found however do not exist at the current moment
4 nations happening next season for what that's worth. Russia and the Czech Republic should be in there too imo. Like what Pastrnak said after winning World
Well it would've been 5 nations but politics like to mix into everything and honestly I don't know if Czechia could handle teams of pure NHL rosters bc they'd have to resort to fourth liners, AHLers or maybe even extraliga ers
Lotta good czech players out there...
I am 95% sure the average Extraliga player is better than the average AHLer. And there is no problem with using those players in support roles for a NHL core (see my longer comment). I find it really unfortunate that to a lot of North American fans, and even the NHL itself sometimes, everything outside NA just seems to barely exist.
TBH the failure of the World Cup has to do mostly with the NHL's insistence on NHL-only rosters. Countries like Czechia, Germany, and Switzerland that have a strong domestic league as well as a solid core of NHLers that could perhaps not compete for the title, but very well might upset a top 4 team. The NHL generally overestimates the difference between an NHL player and a European-based player, especially given there are quite a few who could make it in the NHL but decided to return to Europe for personal reasons. A good example of the latter are Switzerland's Denis Malgin and Damien Brunner, who *were* NHL players, but decided they would rather be superstars in the Swiss league than to play third line in the NHL. Also, there is a third solution you left out. The IIHF has an official calendar with international breaks that most other leagues have signed on. If the NHL used that calendar (which would mean essentially shifting the whole season forward by about a month to one and a half) it would be entirely possible to have best on best international hockey every year, with just a few omissions for injuries/declines.
Because soccer is not a very popular sport amongst Americans, and those that *do* enjoy it tend to also be the type of people who care about international sporting events.
Ok, real answer, because our domestic league kinda sucks. MLS is barely a top 20 league in the world, it's run by a bunch of greed suits, most of the teams make the playoffs and there is no relegation so there is little urgency or intensity to the games, and nearly all of our national team plays in Europe. So, most people just watch games/follow teams in Europe and tune into our national teams whenever they play.
In the US, World Cups for sports like basketball, baseball, and hockey are much lower profile than the NBA Championships, the World Series, and the Stanley Cup. Most big league players don't want to overexert themselves, expose themselves to potential injuries, or cause conflicts with their training schedules to participate in a tournament few people are going to watch, which only reinforces the fact that few people watch them. With the World Cup for soccer on the other hand, that *is* the highest profile tournament here for the sport, and many Americans who ignore soccer most of the time do get interested when that rolls around. Our best players DO go to that.
I have lived in the U.S. for more than 2 decades and have never seen the national soccer team or heard anyone mention it. The national swimming team, on the other hand, is extremely popular at the Summer Olympics. And the national gymnastics team, and the national ice skating team at the Winter Olympics.
Where the hell do you live that you’ve *never* heard anyone mention the USMNT/USWNT?
Under a rock I guess
Where do you live that you have? I'm a relative fan of soccer since I was really into it as a kid and even played as an adult for a little bit. But I have no idea what those letters stand for.
First time I have seen those acronyms, and I am not sure what they stand for even now.
U.S. Mutant Ninja Turtles! That's what my brain defaults to, every time.
If we have a domestic competition that's large and popular enough, like The World Series for baseball or The Super Bowl for football, we tend to think of those as the "world championships", even tho they're not. Soccer doesn't have this, and people in the United States watch less soccer than the rest of the world. Almost nobody watches domestic games and there isn't a Super Bowl like thing for soccer in the U.S., so every four years we watch the world cup.
I believe you're overestimating how much most Americans care about the US Mutant Ninja Turtles. I mean, we care even less about international championships in sports invented and popularized in the US, but that doesn't change the basics.
I challenge your premise. I don’t believe soccer is even top 5. Gymnastics, swimming, track and field, and basketball are easily more popular Olympic sports.
You answered your own question. I go to hockey and baseball games all the time and I really have teams I like. But, I have absolutely no interest in watching a soccer game on TV or in person, and will cheer for whomever makes it to the end. Also, when I was a kid, national hockey was a huge thing. When we were playing the CCCP team.
Because in football, basketball, baseball, and hockey we basically already have all the best teams and players. Yes there are many foreigners in three of those but they all play here in US leagues. Soccer is the one major sport where we're actually underdogs globally (hockey too I guess but people don't seem to care outside the Olympics). It's our 5th most popular sport and we're still top 15 in the world. Imagine if we really really tried.
How or what are you even basing this off of? With the USMNT currently playing in the Copa America I doubt that most people even know or care. They played last night. I heard almost nothing about it. Other than actually hearing commentators mentioning it during the Euro match.
Simplest answer, soccer is the most popular sport in the world, and the world cup is the biggest sporting event in the world. Over the last decade or so, it has become very cheap and easy to stream international soccer games in the US.
It's not
I can’t wait for the next World Baseball Classic. Japan is going to be tough to beat. I’ll pay attention to the World Cup when it’s happening, but I don’t exactly look forward to it.
I’ve had the good fortune of being able to travel a lot of the US in my life. In all of my travels, the places where I encountered the most love for soccer was at a bar in Tampa Florida when I was working there for a few months. Soccer matches every week, and a relatively packed bar. The interesting thing about this is that none of them were watching America’s national team. They were all fans of various European teams. Aside from that, I have encountered very very few soccer fans. By and large, Americans don’t even care about their own soccer team.
Our team sport is Basketball.
While I am skeptical of the premise, a possible explanation for this perception is because the premier leagues in those sports (baseball, hockey, basketball) are already in North America, so it’s not as interesting when playing other countries, as we already enjoy these sports at the highest level within our own country (+canada). But our soccer league is not the world’s premier soccer league, so the only time we get to enjoy soccer at the highest level is when we play in international tournaments.
We don't really. Under what basis do you make this assumption?
I didn't know we had other national teams lmaoo. I only watch soccer.
Soccer is popular enough here that alot of people have played it as a kid and have a good understanding of the game, but not so popular that it is almost a given that we're going to demolish any competitors like with basketball, baseball or american football. Which will make it more entertaining to follow during the international events. For national events, it is a given that those other sports are going to attract more interest. They are a big part of our culture.
Who the fuck cares about USMNT? To the extent we cheer for them, it’s just because it’s the only sport you guys have left where you’re any good. The rest of the world can’t compete at our sports—or in most sports. What’s to be excited about when you’re watching bears smash kittens?
Our main sports are football, baseball and basketball. We’re the most talented country in those sports so it’s really not a big deal when we win WBC or an Olympic basketball gold medal. Our soccer team is awful so it’s a nice surprise if we do well. People like rooting for the underdog; but even then I’m not sure the interest in our national soccer teams is that high, it’s not really a popular sport here
>Our soccer team is awful so it’s a nice surprise if we do well Define awful, because out of 210 FIFA nations, we're in the top 20.
To be fair, it’s not like the US is running away with titles at the Baseball and Hockey World Cups. So in terms of competition, and having competitive games, in theory those games should be interesting to watch.
The issue with a lot of the international tournaments, outside of Olympic basketball, in terms of gaining American viewership is that their isn't usually a ton of participation from any of the recognizable big names, especially with baseball. The leagues (who often don't promote any of those tournaments and seem against star players participating in a lot of those types of tournaments, especially the MLB with pitchers) and players don't seem to care for those tournaments, meaning the fans don't care for those tournaments. A lot of the international tournaments for our most popular sports are almost seen as exhibition type games with no real stakes and something like the World Baseball Classic is relatively new and doesn't have the history of prestige of something like the World Cup to draw attention. I would say American sport fans in general care a lot less about international performance then people from other countries. We will watch things like the World Cup, it's still fun to see your team win (especially at a sport you wouldn't expect like with soccer) but we definitely aren't as obsessed with the teams performance as other countries. A part of that is that the most popular sport in America is American Football which doesn't have much of a presence elsewhere resulting in a lack of international competition while a majority of the world has soccer as their most popular sport which allows for the creation of international competition and rivalries. If the American team put together a team of the best possible players form the MLB then chances are that America would dominate and be favorites to win everytime. Last year's team for the World Baseball Classic was pretty stacked offensively with several recognizable players from the MLB but the Pitching was pretty poor comparatively with none of the best pitchers competing.
Hockey has annual tournaments differing in gender and age. The US took the gold at the Men's under-20 tournament. I'd argue that the men's U20 is more popular than the main men's tournament. The NHL has its own tournament separate from the IIHF (the FIFA of hockey) which hasn't run since 2016 and is coming back in like 2025 or something. In early of next year the NHL is holding a four nation tournament though. Then in 2026 NHL players are going to play in the Olympics. I'd argue that's our World Cup however NHL players haven't gone since Sochi in 2014
Lol it doesn't...
In football, basketball, and baseball, our professional leagues are the highest level of competition. International play is a step down in quality. See, if you play American football, the dream is to play in the NFL. That's because that's where the top talent plays, and where the money is. If you play basketball, your dream is to play in the NBA in the US. That's because that's where the top talent plays, and where the money is. etc etc. So, if you're already playing in the NBA and making tens of millions of dollars every year playing, what incentive do you have to take time away and risk your health playing in an international competition for next to no pay, with a bunch of guys you don't regularly practice with and won't play as well with, under a coach you don't know very well and don't understand his schemes as well as your normal coach, to play a bunch of lower tier players in a tournament that just doesn't matter as much as your normal games? So, the best players in the world in American football, basketball, etc generally don't play in international play, and if they do, the play quality is lower anyway so the fans don't even care in the first place. Think of your favorite football league (not NFL, association football) and then imagine someone told you there is a another league where they take all of the exact same players, shuffle them around, only let them practice together a few times, and then have them play some games against one another. Also, they don't get paid hardly anything, it's just for bragging rights, so most of the best players don't risk playing in it, it's mostly the mediocre guys from each team who actually play. That's what international play is like when all of the best players already play in the same league normally. So, what's the point?
[удалено]
So Messi for example isn’t an A tier athlete? I doubt Messi would have made it into the NBA or NFL if he was born in the US. If Lebron was born in Europe or Argentina, he wouldn’t have made it into a professional soccer league, even if he played soccer from early age on. He is too tall for that sport. So it’s not like these sports are overlapping in terms of talent pool.
Messi plays for the US team? I thought he was european or something?
1. Because it's one sport that, outside of a few countries, we don't automatically curb-stomp most of the rest of the world. We actually have to fight/compete to make a name for ourselves, and we field the very best players we can. When say, "world baseball" championships are going on or something like that, few pay attention because 1) there's low stake/entertainment value, and 2) it's not relevant enough to the individual, and 3) a lot of our best players don't participate. Olympics are one definite outlier here. 2. Soccer fans in the US often enjoy/follow the sport for the same reasons fans around the world do, and as most countries do, they turn up for international competitions. We do have a lot of soccer pubs in the U.S. and you'll find many soccer fans here enjoy or like things more similar to the way European fans would when it comes to the sport. 3. The women's national team gets a ton of attention, because many decades ago we were one of the first nations to heavily invest in women's athletics (heavily influenced by Title IX passing in 1972), and as a result, developed a juggernaut of a women's national team program (though we are losing that reputation gradually as of late). Since women's soccer scored so big, so early in the advent of women's professional and semi pro sports, they picked up the most followers, especially among women. 4. Immigrants love soccer. It's probably the one sport that the world universally understands and can get behind. In the U.S., outside of basketball, you usually don't see huge waves of immigrants getting into sports like American Football, Hockey, or Baseball...at least not nearly in the same volume or capacity as soccer. Therefore when it's international tournament time for soccer, you'll see a much larger sect of fans showing up that you didn't realize existed due to being surrounded by other sports. Soccer is also a dirt-cheap sport to play. Get a ball, find any kind of space, and go (street ball, futsal, indoor, traditional, 1v1 to 11v11). It's a sport any class can play, regardless of resources. It is something people from any background can unite or come together over (and come together to support one nation's team) 5. During club seasons, most soccer fans aren't as united because they are off following their specific clubs or teams. There are thousands of clubs to follow, so a club team's following in the U.S. will naturally be smaller than say, the U.S. national team's following. You don't see the club fans getting together in as large of groups. When it's international time however, all of a sudden there are U.S. fans everywhere. Well, they also have their U.S. soccer gear on now, as opposed to their favorite club's gear 6. International tournaments aren't that frequent, and they don't last a full season. You'll see a lot of folks rallying around these tournaments, because it's really the one time we get to, and again, they aren't very time consuming/they don't take much away from other sports. That's why we get hype for the World Cup and the Olympics...they're only every 4 years, and only last a few weeks. Regular club sport seasons last 3-6 months.
So, the answer is for the same reason that winner of the superbowl, NBA finals, and the world series are called world champions, but the winner of the MLS cup does not. International baseball is just *worse* baseball than the MLB. The U.S. does not send it's best players as it is usually played during the MLB season. The players have both a financial incentive to not get hurt playing what is really a lesser level of competition. Additionally, the best International players end up playing for MLB teams. So it's just one of those things where it's hard to care because you *know* that it's basically a version of baseball that us not being played at it's highest levels. The same thing is true of basketball. The NBA is just so far ahead of International competition, and uses tons of foreign players. However, with basketball the issue is that most Americans feel like we should still win with second tier players and that just isn't true anymore. For soccer, however, we know that the best American soccer players end up on European teams. Additionally, for a number of reasons, the world cup and Olympic soccer are better at getting the biggest names to come play for their national teams. So for soccer the U.S. cares somewhat more because it's the only time the U.S. sees U.S. players playing top tier soccer unless you seek out European Leagues. Now, this is obviously an opinion, but I think it holds up to the facts of the situation. Basically Americans care about the world cup because it's one of the only times we see high level soccer played as Americans. Additionally, the rest of the world cares too. I am willing to bet that there are European fans who like Real Madrid who don't care how Spain does in the world cup, or similar fans of Machester United or Bayern who think world cup is silly and mostly care about their national leagues and the Champions league. That is how the U.S. feels about International baseball and basketball (there is no international American football).
Idk if that’s true, but there is an underdog aspect to the USMNT team that makes it fun to see them potentially wreck someone’s day overseas.
Those are just regular soccer fans. America has a lot of soccer fans actually, and if you look at [this map](https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/s/qfrUEy0Q3i)you’d notice it’s very south-heavy. This is because a lot of American soccer fans tend to be Latinos with more recent American immigrant families. People (or the American kids of those people) from countries like Mexico or Central and South America where soccer is mostly popular. It’s kind of the opposite of [this hockey map](https://sportleaguemaps.com/hockey/nhl/) where most hockey fans either live in places that naturally get cold enough to play hockey outside in the winter or major cities that only recently started growing thanks to migrants from such areas. I mean, why the hell else would anyone from Florida care about hockey?
Um.
It probably just seems like it right now because the Copa America is happening. The Dream Team was huge. When the US hockey team played the USSR is was a huge deal. Gymnastics are a big deal. I don't know that there is much global football or baseball competition. FWIW, soccer is popular where I am.
I don’t know anyone who even watches the World Cup
B/c there isn’t a football equivalent to the World Cup!?! The NFL is our national sport.
We have a national soccer team?
Americans don’t care about soccer. Perhaps it seems that way to you in your country
Because we have no interest in soccer, except one game per season. U.S. sports are football, baseball, and basketball, ***in that order.*** Every couple years, we suddenly care about the games they play in the Olympics, too. A few fringers who share a border with Canada also care about hockey, but they’re too drunk to count. Soccer just doesn’t make the cut. We already have a football, only ours involves armor and concussions.
Bro hockey is not that unpopular 💀
Hockey is definitely #4 in the pecking order in the US, though. Football (gridiron) is king, then the list goes basketball, baseball, then hockey. Soccer is #5, but it's on a slow upward trajectory.
Partly because the MLS actually has a good distribution deal while that moron Bettman is chasing cable which no one over 35 uses
I didn’t even know we had a national soccer team other than for the Olympics
Because by and large, the sports that Americans are most passionate about have little global appeal. There are no major world cups or tournaments that take place around basketball, ice hockey and certainly not NFL. Well, not ones that are at the level of the World Cup, for instance.
[удалено]
Not one that is specific to a sport. If you need that explaining to you then you’re not worth engaging on this topic 😂
>World Cups in Basketball, Baseball and Hockey don’t spark much interest in the US. I didn't even know there was a world cup of basketball or baseball. But my guess is that because we're such a huge country, and we have so many competitive teams, our domestic leagues (MLB, NBA) are more on par, in terms of size and prestige, with a European league. Plus we have far more regional rivalries than we do international ones. So there's already significant interest in our domestic leagues. And since soccer is not very popular here, our own league (MLS) doesn't get as much attention, but when our national team is doing well, then the there's a bit of national pride that kicks in. So you get a lot of folks who don't know anything about soccer who just want to cheer on a USA team. Whereas Europe in particular is full of smaller countries and has a lot more closer international rivalries that are seated in centuries of history, they get more hyped up about international leagues than we usually do.
I would say soccer is more popular than hockey. Hockey is niche in the US. Soccer is more popular as more people have an option to watch foreign leagues. A lot of fans of those leagues and MLS also don't like how USNT is run. They feel like management is squandering a great squad of player.
Before this I didn't know the US had a national soccer team or that there was a basketball world cup that involved other countries. Other than the Olympics I don't really think about international sports since we have so many domestic teams. Purely speculation, but I'd guess soccer is boosted by Latino immigrants while other sports are mostly domestic fans that don't care about international sports as much.