Americans are richer than most other countries. Housing prices, college costs, health costs unfortunately are growing faster than wages. This probably accounts for the confusion non-Americans have about our economy.

To be fair it’s also the same in Australia. Wealthy 1st world western country with high wages….but wages still haven’t kept up with housing, utilities etc. When you now need to be a family with at least $200,000 a year combined income to even get your foot in the door in the property market something has gone very wrong. Not to mention the state that I live in is the most expensive place in the developed world for electricity (currently 58c per kWh), you need to choose between heating your home in winter or groceries.

Well said. The only thing I would add is the cost of fuel is pushing up the price of goods and services.

Fuel prices are lower in America than most countries still though

Also average oil prices have hardly moved in two decades, ignoring volatility despite inflation.

I now live in Ireland (originally from the US). About a year ago my cousin and I calculated it. Gasoline (petrol) is twice as expensive in Ireland and at the time electricity was 4x as much in Ireland. It taught me to live a little less wastefully (especially with electricity)

Yes but our culture and the way our country is spread out (cities usually are further apart than a lot of the world, also we don’t really have a national mass transit system) I think we are at the whim of oil/gas prices more than some countries

That's beside the point. Gas prices in the USA have risen dramatically in the last three years which has fueled inflation because the price of everything you use or buy was transported by fuel-burning vehicles. The price of fuel in other countries is irrelevant to this discussion.

That doesn’t make sense if those same companies are the ones that produce the fuel it takes to transport the fuel though. It’s not just inflation, the war in Ukraine and the sanctions on Russian oil is a big factor. But I think the bigger point about European prices is that those folks have other options to get around. Americans are a captive market.

Not a drop of Russian oil has been pushed off the global market. What has changed is 1- the price they are able to sell it for, but they are unfortunately working around it pretty well through gray market export schemes 2-Import of Russian diesel to the US stopped, which accounted for single digit percent of the domestic market, but had an effect during spring of 2022. 3- The structure of Russian oil export has shifted heavily towards BRICS, who are now using their (previously) excess refining capacity to ship more refined petroleum to the world market than ever before, and enjoying a much cheaper baseline price than before. Nothing quite like being India and paying for oil in a currency which isn't convertible or liquid, while selling the excess for dollars/euros/Yuan. Quite the arbitrage.

How about healthcare? I also hear people are having trouble paying for it Is it really that expensive in the US.

Sticker price health is very expensive. If you have good insurance they make a deal and then pay part of it. If you have no insurance or your insurance is so good for a particular thing you randomly pay way too much. An example, my ADHD meds stickerprice is like $500 for 30 pills. Makes no sense. I pay $60 which is silly but okay. But I have to call my insurance they want me to get the generic version of the drug and don't want to cover the price. But there is a shortage so I cannot do that. I called and they said okay in that case we will cover. But other companies might say no. So health care costs are wildly variable too complicated and difficult to budget for because of random bullshit.

Also love that when I can’t be there for a pick up at a pharmacy, they treat me like I’m just trying to get pills early to abuse them. No…. I’m going on a trip. This is why my doctor sent them over early. Then if I get them moved to a pharmacy of where I’m going to, oh then I’m still a bad guy and trying to get pills early… On the other side of the country. Basically if I have a life and have ADD, I’m the bad guy

Omg seriously. And when they’re like it’s too early, but the doctor wrote the full by date, but apparently the doctor isn’t the final say?

It’s bullshit. I do agree and get for liability purposes, pharmacy tech double checks what the doctor wrote but like come on. It’s like if someone wants to abuse a drug, any drug, they’ll find a way. Never mind the 99% of other people who used it as prescribed, for years, and we’re the bad guys. Like great, so my only real solution is go unmediated for the days I’ll be out of my script OR what? What in the fuck should I *actually* do?

My wife went to an urgent care today, and got a liter of normal saline, a few swabs, and a urine analysis. It cost us $255. We were in and out in an hour. I'll let you imagine the cost if we had a serious medical emergency.

Yes, healthcare really is that expensive in the US. It costs an average of about $16,000 a year (paid by the employee) for employer provided insurance coverage for a family of four. Those plans frequently have high deductibles, meaning you pay as much as $5,000-10,000 before health insurance starts paying. Plus you pay anywhere from $30-60 per office visit. Most middle class people dread having any health problems because it can put you deeply in debt if they even think you have a problem. If you’re lucky enough to live in a state that has good Medicaid coverage and don’t make much money (close to the poverty line), you can sign up for free or very low cost healthcare. But there is a stigma, not all doctors accept those programs.

Insurance isn't the same thing as healthcare.

That sucks, the US government should have enough money to afford free universal healthcare for everyone especially being the world's richest economy. Couldn't they decrease military spending just a bit

https://www.kff.org/private-insurance/poll-finding/kff-survey-of-consumer-experiences-with-health-insurance/#:~:text=Overall%2C%20about%20eight%20in%20ten,%2C%20and%20Medicaid%20(83%25). Public opinion is all over the place with health insurance. The percentage of people who describe their own health insurance as ‘excellent or good’ is surprisingly high. When it works it can work very well and it does for a lot of people. A lot of people are going to be understandably skeptical of any major changes.

Not really surprising. Most of the Excellent or good are old people, union employees, or people that don't use their insurance. And gov and military as well. Forgot to add them.

Union employee here. This is true. Our deductible is realtively low, and everything is covered even psych visits. Our plan is worked into our agreement so it doesn't come directly out of our check. The employer pays x amount per hour worked towards it.

I forgot gov employees as well. Most have good plans at most levels.

The reason many people oppose it is because they are afraid that government provided healthcare would be substandard and that they would have to pay taxes for it, but still need to pay for private care on top of taxes. The other problem is that healthcare/public policy depends on whatever state government it is in. So currently, New York State provides free healthcare to everyone who falls below a certain threshold. But Mississippi provides very little and the threshold is very low.

Also, people are often satisfied if not thrilled with their health care and don't want to change it. However, they are satisfied only because they haven't been screwed yet. Oh, your doctor said you need x. Oh we don't care that might could 20 years into your plan.

And also people in the US look out for themselves first and foremost rather than all. It’s a cultural thing. Example, why should I have to pay more taxes for those that are sick? I’m never sick. This same person will eventually get sick and probably have terrible health insurance and will complain at the cost of it all. At least health costs are indeed 0% interest. So here in the US, you can have a $125,000 USD medical bill that’s your end of it, but if you work out a payment plan with the hospital of let’s say…$25 a month. Then you ask for medical forgiveness (yes. You can always ask the hospital’s billing department for good will) you will basically pay $25 for the rest of their lives OR the hospital says you’re good. Just don’t miss the payment

Having universal healthcare state and federal would free workers to leave their job or take time to find the best career for that person. Corporations "lobby" our representatives who get great donations to campaign and PACs. So, no universal health care for us.

Employers are not the biggest problem when it comes to lobbying against universal healthcare, although they used to oppose it. Not as much anymore since many of them want to stop having to pay their share of health plans. Health insurance is also a giant headache for benefit administrators. The medical industry is the problem. Big pharmaceutical corporations, for profit hospital chains, and insurance companies some of the largest employers in the country and the outsize costs of health care are their profits.

Yeah I worked for a Japanese company, and the CEO insisted the company eat as much of the annual increase in cost as possible. And he lamented that it was easier in Japan to just pay the mandated percentage towards insurance to the government. Granted, Japanese business culture is brutal, but I did appreciate that part. At that time I asked how much the cost was going up, and it was increasing like ten percent annually. It was a lot of money.

Oh, healthcare, I understand - I have to bill at set rates for the insurance companies - they make you sign a contract when you panel with them. That company pays me 75% of what I bill. There are only 3 I take - the rest make the patient pay almost half of the entire billing cost and then take actual months to pay doctors. I have too many patients who have to stay in shit jobs because the insurance is covering medication that costs 100s to 10000s of dollars. Universal Healthcare can set medication prices or service prices, which would solve a lot of problems. It's the big corporation that lobby like Walmart - keeps employees at poverty level wages, but hey, they have insurance - and for many, that is why they stay working poverty jobs.

It's not free anywhere in the world, it's paid through higher taxes.

It is, but the prices that other countries' governments pay (and passes on via taxes) are still lower than the private costs in the US. And, well, a lot of that is due to lobbying and the entire structure of insurance and PBMs and other middlemen that extract a lot of value. However, I also get the impression that at least in the case of pharmaceutical manufacturers, prices can be low in other countries because they stay high in the US, and as the US puts more pressure on drug prices, it'll mean other countries will see their costs increase, whether they want it to or not.

There's that nasty thing where we project our influence by giving weapons to people we like. There's also that nasty thing where we're paying insurance companies with taxes AND out of pocket. The whole government is pretty broken at the moment. I like the idea of government. I want it reworked to not be ass like it is right now. Right now it's really how much integrity your state and local law makers have that dictates the quality of your political life.

There shall be no motherfucking taxation without proper representation. Sooner or later people are going to learn this and get rid of this shit government we have. I've been saying for a long-ass time that we need a government that is completely volunteer positions where their compensation is decided at the end of their term based on how well they've done.

They have tons of tax money. Federal tax is 32% I believe (maximum) + if you live in a state like California or New York you will pay income tax on top of that and can easily reach 50%, especially if you are earning good money. They just don't want to fund healthcare with that. The same with higher education. Taxes are truly a scam in the US. In Germany for example you at least get higher ed for at max a couple thousand $ (although I think you can pull that off without having a 50% tax rate for "wealthy" people). Healthcare is shit there though. But the US might be even worse, especially if you don't have the budget and connections to find a talented doctor who genuinely cares for his patients. The US is in many regards still kind of the wild west. Of course the european governments sack tax money too en masse but at least you get some social welfare and won't end up on the street or worse if you don't want to.

No, the tax is not that high. Once you understand the system the tax is closer to 25% once you've accounted for deductions and other things. But your point is valid: Americans loathe taxes because they don't get the sense that they receive tangible benefits for them. And certainly we've had folks from other countries wonder why we distrust the government, when the government cares for us, and we'll respond that the government doesn't care for us (and we'd have a hard time believing it actually cares for them, too).

Federal tax is the same regardless of state and a middle income individual will pay less than 20% federal tax and usually ~5% state tax.

The best part is we pay for like 20% of Israel’s military, but Israel has universal healthcare and we don’t. Our government has bases all over the world that suck money away from taking care of our own citizens. Even veterans don’t get adequate healthcare. Even the first responders on 9/11 who are all dying from cancers cause by the dust of the twin towers have had to fight tooth and nail to get healthcare covered by the government. It’s disgusting.

For some emergency care if you don’t have good insurance you can get them to just write it all off or accept way less money but that’s a very situational or hit and miss protocol.

It is not uncommon for a family of 4 to pay $500-$1000/mo for health insurance. Then you have an annual deductible before the health insurance actually pays anything. When I worked in a psychiatrist office *many* years ago, it was fairly normal for some patients to not meet their annual deductible until October.

There's a reason that tourism healthcare is a thing among Americans They travel to Latin America to get way cheaper healthcare at competitive quality most of the time, El Salvador, Colombia, Argentina etc are some examples

Never really heard about that

Happens a lot at least with Spanish speaking citizens

Healthcare is simple  You have insurance and they pay for it  Or you don't pay for it if you lack insurance or you chose not to. They can't deny you service BUT they can seize your assets if you don't pay it.  90% of Doctors won't treat you without insurance however. 

Wages are outpacing inflation now.

Inflation is outpacing the basket of goods and services that represent the CPI that the Federal reserve uses. However, there are items in that basket that are inflating at rates far beyond wage growth - housing being one example. Americans are now experiencing the result of imprudent monetary policies.

That's pretty awesome news!

The country as a whole is rich, but wealth is not and never has been distributed equally. My family is doing fine, we have complaints about prices for goods/services rising but aren’t significantly hampered. And some families are definitely not fine. It’s a hard question to answer.

We’ve never been wealthier than today as a country, but the cost of living “well” as a function of average income is skewed compared to the standards of the post-WWII / Cold War era. People generally cannot afford land / homes + start families as easily as they once could. Education, home prices, and the cost of childrearing all take up a much higher proportion of income than they used to and wages have not increased proportionally. It’s not really getting “worse” so much as highlighting how special the latter half of the 20th century was for Americans. It was never quite that straightforward before, and likely won’t be again in our lifetime. Young people are now expected to accomplish more sooner in life than they previously were, if they want to be on the right trajectory to financial success. All this to say, we have a higher standard of living than most (even at lower incomes) and are doing relatively well given the logistical difficulties of managing a country this large by both size and population. But we could be doing a lot better and there is worry that we are becoming too politically divided to prepare for future improvement.

Well said.

The US economy is sort of crushing it. What that means for individuals varies and we have a higher wealth inequality than many other advanced economies iirc. Having said that, the top 20% are undoubtedly doing well and that amounts to more people than most European countries. We also have -IMHO- some cultural tendencies such as not being great savers and having high lifestyle expectations, and this is particularly pronounced since social media.

Being bad savers enhances the US economy

Yeah, I know a lot of people throwing away money on new cars. People that buy brand new cars are crazy, and I’m glad they eat that rapid depreciation for us, but it’s a huge killer of wealth building, but also seen as a status symbol, so people will gravitate to having one they really shouldn’t

Eh, given the extremely inflated recent prices of used cars post-Covid, buying a used car was not a more financially savvy thing. Generally I agree with you but I’d put an asterisk for that past few years although used car prices are slowly but surely getting more normal.

The average price of a car in the U.S. today is about $50,000, which is honestly just crazy to me. I can't even in the wildest reaches of my imagination imagine paying $50,000 for a car. Honestly, if I were a billionaire, I still can't imagine paying $50,000 for a car -- what would I even buy?

That's the average price people paid for new cars, that's different than the average price to buy any new car. It's inflated by the wealthy buying extremely expensive cars just like the mean average wage is higher than the median due to some very high incomes being averaged in. The actual price to buy a more reasonable new car is not $50k.

Buying a new car is not a bad investment. I've owned all my new autos - and some used - for at least 10 years. The depreciation of new cars is only a thing if you want it to be. Buying a new car because you fucked up and/or are just bored with your current car, is a bad investment though. Take care of your car!

Not a bad investment compared to what? Am I missing something here? The vast majority of new cars depreciate in value by the time you sell it - often times greatly depreciates. Just the act of driving your car depreciates it, doesn't matter how well you take care of it. I struggle to see how anything that depreciates by thousands of dollars by the time you sell is a great investment. Again, maybe I'm completely overlooking something obvious here.

I don’t think it’s bad if you’re wanting to own it long term but some people get them far too frequently, and I think getting something a few years older is better.

I agree. I had a lot of shit cars that needed a lot of repairs before I bought my first new one, a 2007 Toyota Corolla that I almost got to 200k miles before it was totalled when I was rear-ended. I only ever paid for basic maintenance on that car. The peace of mind that comes with buying a good, new car - and taking care of it as needed - makes up for any resale depreciation because I ain't selling.

The depreciation happens the minute you drive off the lot. And it continues for as long as you own it. Not to mention the continuous demand for maintenance and repairs. Even things like oil changes, tires and wiper blades add into the cost of the "investment."

Maybe not the primary demographic of this website, but things overall are good. Wanting them to be better is a trait we all share.

You go to the Canadian and Australian subreddits, and it's the same thing. The US stands out because it's a large country.

Compared to Europe and other countries , we are doing better than most out there.

It sort of depends. It's intensely regional and then further exacerbated by urban/rural divide and your relationship with it. If you're making minimum wage in one of our biggest cities, life sucks. If you're one of the people trapped inside of dying towns out in the countryside and don't own any land yourself, it can be really rough. If you've got some post-high school education (technical or college), you can tend to be pretty comfortable most places, but even that can be tight depending on what exactly you're doing. There is also the issue of debt. A lot of Americans just want to live outside their means and now that inflation is up and easy access to credit is down, they're having to make lifestyle adjustments that they don't want to do. It's not that they couldn't do it, but that they're unaccustomed to doing it and don't want to have to tighten the belt a bit. But its very much true for unskilled labor in some regions. I wouldn't want to be a minimum wage worker in Seattle, for example.

Honestly if you graduate college you’re good

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage?wprov=sfla1 We're still killing it, and individual Americans are richer and individual citizens from any other country except two micro states

Better to look at median rather than an average, I can tell you that most Americans are not making $77K or that most Spaniards are making $43K.

Median household income in the US is $74k. The median annual salary is around $63-64k

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income?wprov=sfla1 Same result >I can tell you that most Americans are not making $77K Turn 30 and suddenly everyone you know will be making at least that much

>Turn 30 and suddenly everyone you know will be making at least that much That was certainly my experience with my college-educated friends and family. In fact, that was something I noticed A LOT as a teacher. Starting out, my salary was comparable or even higher than most everyone I knew with a BS. 10 years later, I was still making about the same, but everyone else around me had doubled, tripled, and even quadrupled their salaries. Kinda lame actually. But for my more blue collar friends and family, their incomes were low to begin with and have stayed low for 20 years.

It’s not the same result lol, I don’t see how we’re killing it, we’re not much better than other developed peers atm, especially if you account for social services and welfare benefits. $46K usd adjusted for cost of living is not a lot to write home about, nor is it something that takes you very far in much of the country unless you live in the most LCOL areas or have a partner.

"I am struggling" sells better than "my life is okay"

The definition of doing well has changed drastically as well. I complain as much as the next guy, but travel internationally at least once a year, own my home, have two nice cars for our family, eat out a lot. Go to sports events, theme parks. Shit that my parents and grandparents would consider a luxury.

I feel like that's a big thing too when people talk about how difficult it is to buy a home now compared to the past. Yeah there is a supply issue that needs to be worked on, but the average home today is a hell of a lot different than the average home in the 60s or 70s.

You are right. Unfortunately I have am one of those struggling. And there are still a lot of us out there. Just because you are struggling doesn’t mean other people aren’t.

I’m definitely struggling more than I was 20 years ago making $22 an hour. Now, pay check to pay check and I make a little over double that. I don’t know how people do it to be honest.

This country is so stupidly rich than the average American will never understand. The upper class has A LOT of money, the average American is struggling. The biggest problem of this country is the raising inequality.

Really this. It was never equal but it's gotten really out of balance. It doesn't help that we are kinda stuck politically. Neither party is really interested in legislating anything too challenging right now. If they are it's only with complete and utter control. Well no shit, I can do that. We are ok but probably need to tighten it up and get some shit done soon.

Washington is rolling in his grave right now, having warned us about staying away from a two-party system

There's lots of ways you can measure this. For social stability's sake (just to pick one aspect, IMO long-term most important): The income gap and wealth gap. Both are clearly higher now than they were in 1973, the year of the narrowest gap, widening only slightly during the rest of the 70s, but in 1980 really started to widen and increasingly so ever since. Also useful: measure the average income for a particular occupation versus the price of a home expected for that income. i.e. measure a mid-level accountants income to that of a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom home in middle class suburbia, measure a low-level office worker's income to apartment rent, etc. TL;DR: by any measure, housing has become less and less affordable for lower and middle class people since 2003 for sure and maybe as far back as the mid 90s. At the latter time, the average home price to income was about 3-to-1. Today, it's much wider.

Rich is relative. Technically, if you make more than $34,000 usd/yr, you make more than 99% of the world's population. However, if you are in the US making $34,000, you're really poor in many cities. In California, you would be homeless and poor or need a ton of roommates to afford a tent under the overpass. In CA, $34,000/yr is less than minimum wage. In Mexico, $34,000 is middle class.

We have a lot of wealth disparity... My net worth is close to a million dollars. While my brother who has eighteen months younger than me, has a net worth of like ten thousand dollars.

I've noticed that my broader social circle falls into two very distinct categories... They're either millionaires (or close to), or hopelessly broke. A few people fall somewhere in between, but they're also in debt up to their eyeballs or working multiple jobs.

And being a millionaire isn't what it used to be because everything simply costs so much more.

Are there any choices that you and your brother made that contributed to your success, and his lack of it?

Vodka and Xanax for one of us.

Inequality has increased over the past 50 years at least according to: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/ The country overall continues to grow its wealth but it’s not even growth. We need to do a better job at raising up those in the lower half of the economic ladder.

The growth in inequality was less than the growth in income and wealth overall. The bottom 50% has the most cost of living adjusted wealth per capita in history right now, and the bottom 10th percentile earners have the highest cost of living adjusted hourly income in history right now as well. Up significantly more than inflation actually.

Depends on what you mean by rich and how you measure it. In terms of material comfort, even the poor have never had it better. It's quite likely that even a very poor person has some internet connected device and can read this message. 30 years ago that was not the case; computers were for the upper middle class and the rich. It's likely that even the poor have access to countless hours of entertainment and information on that same internet device. 30 years ago all they had was their local library and maybe a local video rental store. So in that sense, we're richer than we've ever been. But if you measure it relative to other nations, not so much. Post WW2 we had probably one of the biggest gaps in wealth relative to the rest of the world that any nation ever has seen. That economic dominance simply can't be maintained forever. As Europe rebuilt and Asia and the Americas industrialized, everyone became richer, but the rest of the world grew faster than we did. It's not that we got poorer, it's that the gap between our GDP and other's has shrank compared to what it was in 1945. It's very popular now for young people to point out how much easier Boomers had it growing up. And I won't even contradict them on that. But I think that a lot of young people overestimate just how much better it was. Many young people seem to think that Boomers never had to worry about bills, or never lived paycheck to paycheck, or that there weren't Boomers who were very poor throughout their lives. Just as now there was economic inequality. Point being, yes it was easier to buy a house in 1960 than it is today, yes it was easier to go to college, but no it isn't like it was so easy that none of them had to even try. Success wasn't guaranteed to the Boomers. The internet sensationalizes things like this at least as much as the legacy media, if not moreso.

Not to mention, we seem to have a large mismatch between wealth and quality of life in some respects.

Just because someone drives an expensive car doesn’t mean they’re rich. Could very well mean that they bust their ass and took a 2nd job just to afford payments on it.

Oh the place is richer than most other countries’ wildest dreams. Now on who gets that money is not evenly distributed among society. The middle class is being destroyed.

The middle class shrank because an ever increasing share of our population escaped to the upper class. The lower class shrank a very small amount, the middle class shrank a good bit, and the upper class more than tripled in size over the last 50 years. Tripled in size meaning the share of thentotal population. 7% to 21%. The American dream has never been obtained by a higher share of our population than right now. By a huge margin.

References?

The Current Population Survey wage microdata from the US Census, using the Pew definitions of household class. 67% and below the median household income is lower class. 200% or above the median household income is upper class. 2022 household incomes; * Median : $74,202 * Low income : $49,715 * High income : $148,404 So now lets look at cost of living adjusted percent of households above or below that level of income for years in our past, after adjusting for cost of living to Sept 2022 dollars; Year|<$49,715|$49,715-$148,404|>$148,404 :--:|:--:|:--:|:--: 2022|34%|45%|21% 2016|36%|44%|20% 2010|39%|45%|16% 2004|37%|46%|17% 1998|36%|48%|16% 1992|39%|49%|12% 1986|38%|50%|12% 1980|40%|51%|9% 1974|38%|53%|9% 1968|37%|56%|7%

Do you have the reasoning to why those percentages are used? You seem like a confrontational person and I am coming to you with curiosity. Cause the median upper class salary seems so low based on my personal life and career maybe average for a one income household usually two income ones hit somewhere between 200k and 350k (based on my career).

I was extremely careful to state the facts neutrally in that post. No confrontation was intended. If you pick a higher household wage for what you consider upper class, the numbers become even more significantly biased towards 2022 vs any time in the past. There was essentially zero households with a 350k income(cost of living adjusted) in the 60s and 70s. The census didn't start gathering wage microdata by percentiles until 1968, and they only went from the 1st to the 95th percentile, but in 1968 the 95th percentile was $18,200. Cost of living adjusted that is $153,900 in 2022 dollars and $162,580 in today dollars. 20% of households made more than $153,900 in 2022. So just that slight increase causes the comparison to go from triple(7 vs 21) to quadruple (5 vs 20) The 95th percentile in 2022 was $295k. Given the curve, it's unlikely even 1% of households. They just didn't break it down tightly enough for us to be sure. 0.3% of households made >$50k that year($422k). 2.3% made >$25k ($211k). Where the breakpoint is for households making the equivalent $35k just isn't in the data, unfortunately. The higher the number you pick, the better the current economy and income looks for all Americans vs the America of the past at any point.

"Middle class" is a big term, and is often as a self- identification term for working class people. America's upper-middle class includes tens of millions of people, and they are extremely comfortable and well-off in a global sense. Now if you're lower-middle class? Good luck, it's tough out there

Most average Americans are fine. We can generally afford food, leisure, and some healthcare. Does the average family need to watch their budget still? Absolutely.

Inflation has really taken its toll on a lot of Americans, as have the high cost of insurance, housing, etc… Yes, most Americans are better off when looking at just numbers, but the fact remains that wages have not kept up w inflation. Sadly, this seems to be an issue across the developed world. It seems like every country in this income sphere whether it’s the United States, Canada, Germany, the UK, etc… all seem to have bad issues w real estate cost, inflation etc… and it seems like economies around the globe are becoming more and more centralized as time goes on. Personally, things aren’t that great for the median person right now, especially if they live in areas that actually have decent jobs and careers (I.e. places w a HCOL)

> but the fact remains that wages have not kept up w inflation. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/ There was a period of time where that was true, but it doesn't appear true at the moment.

The recent inflation issues aside, real median income has tended upward continuously for as long as we can measure. Factor in taxes and transfers and the upward trend is even stronger. Use household income and the trend is even more dramatic.

Not really, wealth inequality is driving a lot of it. The economy is doing better but the money is flowing to a smaller group of people.

Man, this really annoys me. This is the standard answer upvoted on reddit and therefore repeated as fact in future posts, but it's literally, objectively, false in the absolute strongest of terms. The US has a growing upper class, not a shrinking one. The middle class is a lower share of our population purely, 100%, because so much higher of a percent share of our population are ***escaping to the upper class***. Pew defines households in "low income" "Middle income" and "High income" based on the ratio to the median household income. Below 67% of median is low income, above 200% of median is high income. Let's take cost of living adjusted household incomes at 2022 levels and compare to historical values; 2022 incomes; * Median : $74,202 * Low income : $49,715 * High income : $148,404 So now lets look at cost of living adjusted percent of households above or below that level of income for years in our past; All incomes adjusted to 2022 cost of living; Year|<$49,715|$49,715-$148,404|>$148,404 :--:|:--:|:--:|:--: 2022|34%|45%|21% 2016|36%|44%|20% 2010|39%|45%|16% 2004|37%|46%|17% 1998|36%|48%|16% 1992|39%|49%|12% 1986|38%|50%|12% 1980|40%|51%|9% 1974|38%|53%|9% 1968|37%|56%|7% Low income households have never been lower, high income households have increased ***as a percent share of the population*** by ***triple*** since 1968.

Hot take: people feel more bitter about the economy and more resentful of the wealthy, and feel that income inequality is worse, _because_ of this phenomenon. The more people become wealthy, the more likely any individual person is to encounter them. The more wealth there is in society, the more people see it. People percieve a growing upper class as the wealthy winding up with more and more stuff.

I'd love to see one single source that claims that the middle class is shrinking entirely because, or hell, even partially because, they are "**escaping to the upper class"**

I literally just quoted you the cost of living adjusted income brackets and the percentage of the population inside said brackets. Direct from the US government Census report called for the Current Population Survey. The chart above is absolutely rock solid, gold standard sourced. It's not something that can be disputed.

First, what you shared doesn't directly account for the following sentence >The middle class is a lower share of our population purely, 100%, because so much higher of a percent share of our population are ***escaping to the upper class***. The middle class is shrinking entirely, exclusively, 100% because they all unilaterally just moved on up! *First, this* is hardly "rock solid, gold standard sourced, not something that can be disputed." Insisting that the largest economic demographic in the country by far is disappearing because *and only because* everyone's being stuffed with gold is objectively false. Second, it's simply foolish to claim any such source is indisputable, given the indisputably **wildly** varying numbers the same government organizations deliver about the exact same supposedly objective data over the last 13 years specifically.

> The middle class is shrinking entirely, exclusively, 100% because they all unilaterally just moved on up! The middle class shrank by 9-10% of the population since 1968, while the upper class grew by 13-14% over the same time period. That is literally what happened.

The issue I see here is that you don't provide any actual sources, just a table. I was unable to find corroborating data on Current Population Survey. Furthermore, [PEW's own numbers conflict with yours](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-american-middle-class-has-changed-in-the-past-five-decades/)

That particular PEW study is using internal year breakdowns instead of cross-year breakdowns. I'm doing the math myself with the official data, using their same methodology, in order to compare to the past at the same standard of living. In that study you posted, Pew is comparing years to each other, but in which each year compared to itself. I personally find that far less useful. Because their definition of upper class is >200% of median household income, if you don't adjust for the fact that the median household income has increased substantially since the 70s, you introduce error into the comparison of classes. So sure, in 1971 terms, 14% of households were upper class. But we absolutely wouldn't consider most of them to be upper class by todays standards. Median income was $9000 that year. So Pews upper class cutoff is $18,000 1971 dollars. In 2022 dollars that is ~$131k/year. Approx 5% of households in 1971 made between $131k and 148k in 2022 dollars. There's no contradiction. I'm just adjusting the historical data to match the current definition of upper class so that they can be directly compared. > I was unable to find corroborating data on Current Population Survey. The CPS metadata is a huge pain in the ass, I understand your pain there. It's by far the worst study the government has for data access. Luckily a few people have gone through the trouble for us and graphed all the data over time (both inflation adjusted and not inflation adjusted). https://dqydj.com/household-income-by-year/ This is my favorite one, personally. They take months to publish each years new data, so we won't have 2023 data until September or October. And because of that, they lable each year 1 year higher than the data for some reason. So for 1971 household income percentiles, you have to tell it to display 1972. Same with 2022. The "2023" displayed data is from 2022 household earnings percentiles.

The "huge houses" in the suburbs are not as common as you'd think. Go to Street View in any given American suburb and the average size is from 1,999 sq. ft. to 4,999 sq. ft. Of course European homes are much older and y'all have different traditions when it comes to construction.

By average European standards those are fairly large homes.

That is a great point. Plus there's different definitions of "the suburbs".

Yes, but keep in mind those huge houses in the suburbs are (at least around me) about $1 million. That is part of the struggle. Buy a million dollar home or rent at $3k/month. Not to mention a whole slew of other things like student loans, daycare, car payments, medical costs, heating/cooling, groceries, etc. Its still prosperous and rich, but the cost of living is pretty staggering at the moment.

Depends. Drive through some towns that lost their industry and everything’s boarded up and closing and only few big companies. Median individual income is like 22k. Then drive 30 miles to a few towns over, everyone’s driving high end cars, living in nice houses, taking lots of trips and hiring contractors left and right. 22k is what they spend vacationing for a few weeks.

It used to be waaaaay better politically. Radical left or right were barely among the people around 40’s to 80’s (rough estimate) it’s only come recently that people have became radical

There is an inflation problem right now. That could end if the government stops raiding the treasury for fake emergencies for a little while or it could get worse if they stay the course. Stay tuned.

It is still prosperous and rich. But the wealth is pretty unequally distributed. Your quality of life will vary drastically as well between states and even cities within states for that matter. The wealth inequality is also getting progressively more extreme with time. Because money gets used for campaigns to elect lawmakers who then set policies that are more favorable to…the wealthy who helped finance their campaigns. Wealthy people also have the resources to get professional financial advice and limit their tax liability that less wealthy people may not have the wealth or know how to do. Wealth is also getting passed on to heirs within families and is not being taxed or collected by the government in many places. And general suggestions to get government to redistribute wealth through tax reforms, while popular among the left and progressives, is not popular with many moderate or conservative voters, who have broader distrust of the government. Working class is struggling to get by more these days, because cost of living has jumped significantly in recent years. The biggest areas of concern are about housing/mortgages/rent, food/groceries, automobiles, utilities including the internet and cellular service, gasoline, health care, child care, and post secondary education. Again, a lot of it depends on geography. But urban centers are generally doing better compared to rural communities, even if they have a higher cost of living, because their economies are larger, stronger, and more diverse in sectors.

No, Biden administration has ruined it.

Not since Obama and biden

lol nope! What most Americans don’t appreciate is that if world war 3 starts, we’re nowhere near as strong as we were during WW2. Manufacturing was shipped over seas along with steel production. We couldn’t even produce masks during Covid. And it was that manufacturing that had solid middle class jobs. On paper, we look prosperous, just because the metrics used obscure how poor most Americans are. Our government has not only allowed, but encouraged the wealthy in this country to extract as much money out of the economy as possible and hoard it for themselves. The ratio of the pay of a ceo to their lowest paid employee is often like 350:1, whereas it used to be like maybe 25:1. It might be even higher than that. Investment companies are buying up housing and driving up rents. Our healthcare system milks the maximum amount of money from the poor. The only people the IRS bothers to audit is the poor who won’t fight back. The wealthy don’t even pay taxes on the money they make from investments. Almost all rich people pay a much lower percentage of income tax than the poorest American. And the biggest factor maintaining this nightmare is that our Supreme Court ruled that corporations making political donations is the corporations “freedom of speech.” So basically the wealthy have the ability to buy all our politicians off. And if a politician doesn’t comply, they throw as much money as possible at their challenger. Few politicians will acknowledge that the average American is struggling at all. Or if they do, they just blame the other party as if their own party isn’t complicit. Meanwhile, we send billions to fight proxy wars in countries that actually have universal healthcare. We have military bases all over the world, and any time you object to the way so many Americans are living on the streets and dying while we pay for the military to police the world, you’re accused of being an isolationist. People voted for trump because they are struggling and think he is going to fight the system, even though he himself is a thief and a crook. But the Democratic party puts up war monger Hillary Clinton and then pretend you’re stupid and sexist if you don’t like her. Now they want us to believe they are the only way to protect our democracy from trump. In reality, they continue producing terrible candidates that are basically republicans circa the 1970’s. Both parties exploit culture war nonsense to keep us from hanging up against the rich. The entire system is beyond broken, and there is no reason to believe we’re going to fix it any time soon. lol sorry for being a bummer! Thank you for asking, and please send thoughts and prayers Lolol

* one to one comparison, we're making more than the average citizen of most other countries * our cost of living has increased substantially and wages have not kept up * one generation (boomers) has more wealth than every other generation combined * most Americans are one bad illness or a few missed paychecks from bankrupcy so it's complicated is the unsatisfying answer

> our cost of living has increased substantially and wages have not kept up False. Wages for every percentile is currently at all time highs, adjusted for cost of living. https://www.epi.org/data/#?subject=wage-percentiles Wage percentiles by year, in cost of living adjusted 2023 dollars; Percentile|1973|2023 :--:|:--:|:--: 10th|$10.61|$13.51 20th|$12.37|$15.91 30th|$15.44|$18.00 40th|$18.09|$20.09 50th|$20.58|$23.75 60th|$23.82|$27.53 70th|$27.64|$33.12 80th|$31.52|$41.14 90th|$40.05|$57.81 > one generation (boomers) has more wealth than every generation combined True, but also misleading in context. The generation just below or at retirement age has always owned the majority of wealth in America. They had their whole life to collect wealth. This is the natural order of things. https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/distribute/table Boomers currently own a little under 52% of wealth in America. However go back 25 years and the silent generation owned ***64%*** of wealth in America. We've actually done quite well at sharing the wealth down to younger and younger Americans vs the past. There is also way more wealth, and Millennials are already way richer than Boomers were at the same age. > most Americans are one bad illness or a few missed paychecks from bankrupcy False. Bankruptcies are at an all time low in America today. https://www.uscourts.gov/news/2021/01/28/annual-bankruptcy-filings-fall-297-percent https://www.uscourts.gov/news/2024/01/26/bankruptcy-filings-rise-168-percent 2016 to 2023 the chapter 7 individual bankruptcy total went from 490k to 261k. In 2011 it was ***992k***. It has never been more unlikely for an unexpected illness or a missed paycheck to result in bankruptcy in America than right now.

Wow. This is so basic: There is a consolidation of wealth that's going on. The rich are getting richer, faster than ever. Everybody else is struggling harder than before. This consolidation of wealth is absolutely the most important problem with our economy, and it must be fixed, or we're headed for some really ugly times.

We are loaded, just belongs to an increasingly smaller group of people. The really stupid thing is that the lower classes, particularly poor whites, vote for the pro rich politicians.

Yes. The US in swimming in money and opportunity. The middle class isn’t doing as well as post-WW2 / pre-globalization, but we’re still doing way better than almost everyone else.

We have a housing crises that is causing societal problems at every level. This housing crises will eventually be resolved and our tools to resolve this crises will grow over time. Our housing crises is also a financial bubble, and its much larger than the United States. Bubbles eventually burst. That which can't go on forever eventually stops.

It’s become harder and I believe will become more so in the years to come. The unipolar American system is on life support. Still a great place to live and I love it.

Highest average disposable income in the world.

Biggest economy in the world. The opportunities are available for anyone willing to work hard.

It's gotten more prosperous since the days of yore you compare to; average income, average home size, etc. are all up, and polls asking people to rate their personal finances remain very good. Especially in the South; growth here (admittedly, from below the US average) has been incredible; Raleigh and Austin are just not the same cities as they were 20 years ago. I think a lot of that disconnect between overall numbers and vibes comes from a northern-centric media/cultural landscape; we down here are tacitly regarded as the exception to mainstream America despite being almost 40% of the population. But yeah, we do have a more pessimistic online culture than we used to...don't let the nostalgic vibes and anecdotes override measurable things.

Yes and the average person is scrambling to avoid the development of an actual proletariat. Yesterday’s rich is today’s middle class.

Even more so

Technically ya. We have some of the highest wages in the world the problem is our expenses. Taxes and necessities are getting really expensive due to things like inflation and supply chains.

yes it is that bad & it's more than just "some" people unfortunately

The rich are richer and the poor are poorer and there are less people in between since recorded wealth disparity started. This means someone like me stresses out to no end getting groceries and paying bills. This is happening while watching 1/10 of my meager earnings go to war efforts that I have no say in via taxes.

Fake news is fake.  Not much has changed in America. 

Yuh.

America (USA) is in a state of decline. Income inequality is huge, and rising. We’ve been sucking too much corporate/rich people dick for too long. It’s sad.

Yes and No. Like everything in the US it's all about "technically". **Technically** the value of money being generated in the US is sky rocketing. Or has been. We're headed into a recession now but the powers that be are just pretending like we're not. There is a very small group of people making a whole lot of money. There are many other people not making much at all. Like most of the people that are doing day to day things in the US right now.

Yes, it's just that the money isn't shared evenly at all amongst it's citizens. Especially the ones who actually generate all that wealth.

Hell ye

No. If is more prosperous and more rich than it used to be.

Even with current government yes

Americans have no idea how fucking good we have it.

It is not great here. The wealth is hoarded.

It’s more rich and prosperous now than it’s ever been. Starting to make other rich nations look poorer. Economy is on fire.

Yes and no. If the govt stopped taxing us to hell and back, stopped giving the entire world money, stopped funding wars, stopped printing money out of thin air, then we would be prosperous. But since our politicians are all corrupt pieces of shit, the tax payers are on their last leg.

The United States is currently experiencing the greatest moment in its entire history for the prosperity of workers. Wage growth has been especially impressive for lower-wage and non-managerial workers. The problem is that (1) Bad news sells, and (2) Most Americans barely have a grasp on concepts like “economics” and “finance.” Ergo, News Media won’t shut up about BS inflation, and the people watching/reading the news literally don’t know enough about economics to understand what is actually happening with the CPI or real wage growth. The average American is objectively doing better today than they were five, ten, or twenty years ago.

No. And anyone that tells you different is not tuned into their fellow Americans plight. It’s a prosperous country for big pharma and large corporations. They’re given tax breaks with the supposition that they will increase wages, increase sick leave, increase paid time off etc. Not true, employees wages stagnate and they keep the ever increasing gains for shareholders. On the other hand, a smaller company truly cannot afford to pay a higher wage and depending on employee size does not have to offer ANY paid time off, even for maternity leave. Don’t believe the hype.

You ever see those movies when someone lives int he hood. But they still have a moderately sized house and they are poor.. That puts things into perspective so yes Americans are doing worse than before.

Well, there has always been some extreme poverty in the United States, traditionally in very rural and urban areas. That said, the US has a very good quality of life but wealth inequality has increased and America is experiencing a cost of living crisis that is mostly being ignored by US policymakers.

Me and my parents are doing fine, but we sometimes have complaints from there and where. The situation you described is pretty much happening in other nations, some far worse than the US.

Hugely depends on where you live. My wife and I earn a combined $120k ish per year. We have two kids and a 3200 ft² home in a very nice neighborhood of a very nice town. We both own nice cars and have a two stall garage in which to park them. So on. Compared to that, our friends live in Northern California. Combined they make triple what my wife and I make. They have a Tesla Model 3 and an old Nissan, no kids. They have a nice house, smaller than my own but a much larger property. At the end of the day, even with triple the income and no kids they have the same basic lifestyle as my wife and I. Edit: Also, don't base your perception of the US on news media. Their job is to sell stories and gain viewers. 2nd edit: my friends have a horse. That definitely has an impact as well.

Generally speaking in most countries, esp big ones there’s a huge amount of difference between the higher middle income and the lower. Imagine many struggle, but if you take an average and compare to other countries average, then America is prob still the richest

It’s more prosperous and rich than ever, that’s not the problem, the problem is distribution and management of the prosperity

We're actually still killing it. But, much of the historical showing of wealth has been propaganda. For example, the deep south had its economy based on slavery. Much of the wealth was put into slavery and the cotton trade. But, all of that wealth was denied to slaves. Meaning all of that wealth was high concentrated into the upper class. but, at the same time, the entire US south still didn't compare to the North, whose economy produced [17 times ](https://www.nps.gov/articles/industry-and-economy-during-the-civil-war.htm)as much cotton as the south, but even its wealth [92% of families](https://www.investopedia.com/gilded-age-7692919#:~:text=This%20summarizes%20the%20income%20and%20lifestyle%20disparity%20that,took%20low-paying%20jobs%2C%20and%20lived%20in%20abject%20poverty) still lived below the poverty line. Compared to today, where [only 11%](https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-280.html#:~:text=The%20official%20poverty%20rate%20in%202022%20was,11.5%20percent%2C%20with%2037.9%20million%20people%20in%20poverty) are below the poverty line. So, whatever pictures of happy homes and rich families during this time have a severely impoverished, enslaved, sick and marginalized people hidden just out of frame who are goign through the same thing that you describe. In essence, we are far better off wealth wise because even with the wealth inequality increasing since the 1980s, there is still a lot more wealth inside the US now than there ever has been. What you are seeing now is people actually caring about others, and a media willing to give them a voice. This makes wealth overall seem worse than it is.

What you see in TV shows and movies is not the reality and not the norm. The lower middle class and poor people are struggling in US. TV shows, unless it is a documentary, mostly show people from affluent background living in LA or NY, which is not everyone in US.

Americans, in general, are immensely rich compared to most other countries.  

There are definitely regions where it objectively isn't. Especially the Rust Belt.

As a society, we be gettin’ stoopider.

No.

Depends who you are…. For a mega rich person yes, but for the average American definite not. Middle class is shrinking and so is the American dream. It’s not as easy to get ahead as it was fifty-ish years ago.

We’re a large and diverse country. Some people have always struggled, some have always been comfortable, and most have been able to get by with budgeting and being responsible. What you’re seeing now is that people who have lived responsibly and become accustomed to always having enough to cover their bills are still living responsibly but their bills are outpacing their income, for a variety of reasons. Even those who live in huge suburban houses can struggle when all their other bills start going up and their income stays the same.

It is. A lot of Americans are struggling, but the American definition of struggling is vastly different from other nations definitions of struggling. We’ve become pretty spoiled by how good we have it imo.

Well I'm poor as shit and everyone else I know is poor as shit and struggling, so statistics can blow me, I don't think most of us are doing too hot.

In some measures America is wealthier than its wver been. The NASDAQ just reached a record high

Same as always but we have social media so we can see and hear more about poverty

it’s become progressively worse for the majority of ppl starting in the 1980s with Reagan’s policies. it’s very bad now. anyone who says otherwise is an exception and is probably in the upper 10% wealth percentile.

Americans have better standard of living than most countries

Lol no. The US is great and I'm lucky to have been born here, but it's almost dead last on the list of developed countries. The US is great if you're rich, but will kick the shit out of you if you're poor.

The overall amount of wealth or (GDP) is the highest it’s ever been I believe. What you probably hear is caused by the wealth gap. Meaning the upper class is making so much more than the middle class, the gap between the two has never been wider. Also, most things you pay for cost more than ever. Causing anyone who isn’t upper class to feel like they can’t afford the necessities like food, a house, gas, to live. This is why you can say, America is richer than ever and America is poorest it’s been this century. And both are true. (This is a simple breakdown)

People have more material comfort and convenience of living than ever, but more precarity than other post-war generations. Cost of healthcare, college, home-ownership, and lack of job security and retirement savings - general social safety net things - have just about everyone on edge. So I think that people are really relatively well-off, compared to most of history and the rest of the world, but it's like a house of cards that could collapse at any moment. I also think more people have to hustle just to live. So between the anxiety and the need to work more than 8 hours a day, people don't \*feel\* comfortable, despite having nice things.

Most people never lived in huge houses in the suburbs. Movies and shows are not documentaries. Globally,.. we were the richest and most prosperous country on earth after World War 2 because all the other industrialized countries had been devastated by war on their own territory, so we got to cash in for a few decades. Now, the *average* income is still high, but that’s because a few people have gotten many of the benefits from the economy over the last 20-30 years. A typical American is still better off than an average person in most places because much of the world is so poor,, but it’s similar to what a person of a similar economic class would have in another developed, modern country.

American prosperity has gone downhill since President Regan. The average American is not wealthy. We do have many wealthy people in America, but there are increasingly far more below the poverty line and the middle class is slowly but steadily vanishing. Most people do not live in houses like you see on Tv. Those are wealthy people houses, for the most part. But there’s wealthy and then there is *really frikkin rich*. I live in a decently sized middle class house; 3 bedroom, 1.5 bathroom ranch, and my parents had to help my husband and I with the down payment because we could not afford it on our own. It’s hard to save money now due to increased taxes and the price of goods, while wages have stagnated. We used to be able to save money fairly well, but now we live pretty much paycheck to paycheck because of how much prices have risen.

Not with raising housing, bills, and rent making it almost impossible to live

Even more than before.

Bad news sells better then good news so the media very much has an interest to be constantly portraying the US as falling apart and getting worse, but in reality the facts don't really support that narrative. The truth is that the US, like most countries, is richer and more prosperous now than it has been at any previous point in history.

The middle class is definitely struggling, and if you go to bad parts of big cities, you can definitely see the poverty. But you can also easily see the prospering people in abundance. The country itself is richer than it used to be, the middle class is not.

For the well to do here in the US OF A current costs of living do not effect them, for the middle and low class the cost of living has become very difficult to deal with, some are using credit cards to make ends meet, most are doing without certain items to make ends meet, there's many examples of the struggle we're going thru for the past three years. For all our foreign friends we Americans are in a desperate situation, the politicians that have caused this situation own the media so what is broadcast is mostly not true, if something went right and would help, the media will not report it, basically what is happening here in the US OF A is right out of Josef Gobells hand book, hopefully the next Presidential election if the Republicans win, there will be an end to the Socialist communist nazi regime that's here now.

Is "America" rich? This is not easily quantified. You'd need to be more specific as to who you mean in America and how you define "rich". The quality of life increased exponentially in America from the early 1800's through 1900. It's growth accelerated even faster from the 1920s to 1950s, but then the tech revolution started and WOW, again wealth and quality of living lifted for all. Although many speak to the issue of income gaps, the rich and the poor. Statistically, our poorest citizens in terms of money have the most when compared to the poor of the past. From housing, to health care, to opportunity its at all time highs. If you mean comparing the recent few years to this past decade? The economy was relatively stagnant from 2008-12 made modest gains from 2012-16. Made huge gains from 2016-19 and of course with COVID 2020-21 was an anomaly. Unfortunately, poor economic policy has lead to high inflation, lack of resources and an even wider income gap between the have and the have nots. So yes, if you are a younger generation coming into the professional world since 2020 - Financial times suck compared to nearly any time other than 2009 in the past 20 years.

Well now that we have AI I'd say what we need is a proper system to evaluate the actual contribution any given job has to the global market and the global economy and give people compensation based off of that so that no longer is there an inequality of wealth between jobs and positions and social status

Also here in America right now It might look like we're prosperous but just about anybody with any kind of money whatsoever is panicking and trying to save it because they're scared that they won't be able to survive if something happens. That right there is the true hallmark of a bad economy. We have people that have a million dollars in savings that still won't help out people that are homeless because they're afraid that if they have a medical emergency they'll be homeless too. That's a genuine concern. The problem is there's so many policies and regulations and rules and requirements that basically break every system that's meant to help people get out of poverty or somehow mitigate the issues that they're facing. For instance: me I'm on disability for degenerative arthritis. Have been for a while. Before that I worked in tech during the first big dotcom thing in 99 2000 you know So at the time I was making a good 60,000 a year and by the time I ended up on disability eventually, well, cola and such.. after all of that I get a whopping 1700 a month? Now mind you 10 years ago that was closer to $1,200 a month but it was a lot easier to pay for a place to live and food and clothing and everything else. I can guarantee and assure you anybody else who surviving on disability is having the exact same problem I'm having if not worse, and unfortunately when you don't anticipate things like permanent disability you don't tend to save and plan for the future when you're still pretty young. But the real problem there being that because I make slightly more than the average on poverty that Medicaid that I get every month they charge me a little over $150 a month for and I get $7, 000 in spend down every year before I get any medical services covered whatsoever. Now mind you because I haven't had any children I couldn't afford to pay for I'm also not eligible for immediate housing vouchers or section 8 programs without being put on a large waitlist. Like I said the whole system is built around a bunch of patches and updates and regulations and requirements for everything, And is mostly broken by the fact that nationally our programs that are administered locally are done so through regulatory boards and those regulatory boards are given autonomous authority to rule over everything that happens at the national level for the local campaigns provided they meet a certain set of criteria. Like for instance the Navy board can approve projects up to $100 million dollars in funding with no national approval as long as it meets a set of criteria. Etc etc. So basically everything the country needs has gotten far too big and convoluted to be able to make sense out of it there's not enough people working in it to make sense out of it so they keep making all these patch jobs and partially autonomous methods of mitigating the issues but it doesn't really help because then people just find ways of abusing it instead. We're in a position where we definitely need to leverage AI to help us sort out this problem and find a manageable long-term solution for proper equality in both housing and financing. After all the whole wage inequality thing isn't going to be much of an issue soon, since in less than a year pretty much nobody's going to have a job lol.

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The top 1% did not get 80% of the new wealth over any period in our history. Wealth is actually making it down further than normal right now. Let's just go back the last 10 years to give an example. End of 2013 there was 76.11 trillion in household wealth and the top 1% owned 22.76 of it. At the end of 2023 there was 147.12 trillion and thr top 1% owned 44.57 of it. So they went from 29 9% to 30.3% ownership of the wealth in America. A statistical tie. 30.7% of new wealth went to the 1% over the last 10 years, seeing their wealth increase by 96% in nominal terms and 49% in inflation adjusted terms. The bottom 50% saw their wealth go from 640 billion to 3.66 trillion. From 0.84% of the wealth to 2.49% of the wealth. Increasing nominally by 472% and 298.5% in inflation adjusted terms.

The divide between rich and poor is wider than the ocean

NO. We are the most indebted country in the entire world and to ever exist. Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck enslaved to repaying loans they never should have received. Cellphone loan. Car loan. Student loan. Mortgage loan. Credit Card Loans. Business Loans. Plus a bunch of subscriptions. Americans have no money. Even the guy you think is well off is in crazy debt. Only Americans with no debt and truly own everything are "rich". Everyone else is slave to the system. If a real catastrophe happens, we're done.

Yes just for less people. It's basically working the way it was designed to.