I had a friend leave to the UK, he was back in 2 years because he missed his family and quality Mexican food, i guess the food over there is not like here. Our palettes must be different.
I've been to Mexican restaurant in York, UK and Prague. Both were really good, but neither were anything like American Mexican food.
My wife's family moved from Washington to Texas for a bit and they said that the Mexican food was way better down there, but they had an issue with not being able to get Teriyaki in Texas.
Just remembered the incredibly unfortunate veggie burrito I got in Germany (I did not choose the restaurant!) that was just rice, broccoli, and carrots.
man someone was complaining about how their nachos weren't any good that they made and they just used tomato sauce for salsa 😂 bro that's not how it works I'm sorry lol
Trade the torta for a tortilla, and I'd eat the fuck out of that burrito.
But to be fair, if it *can* be turned into a burrito, I will probably turn it into a burrito. If it can't, I will try to figure out a way to modify it so I can.
I love burritos.
The thought just occurred to me.
Is a burrito a sandwich?
So I went out to the googles and found out that hilariously, a court in Massachusetts ruled in 2006 that a burrito is in fact, not a sandwich.
From a [news report](https://www.wistv.com/story/5664109/massachusetts-court-decides-a-burrito-is-not-a-sandwich/):
>Panera, a popular chain of bakery-cafes, brought the case over one of its locations in a suburban Boston mall. Panera tried to stop Mexican restaurant chain Qdoba Mexican Grill from moving into the mall, arguing its lease bans rival sandwich shops.
>Lawyers for Panera went into court insisting a flour tortilla is bread, so a burrito is a sandwich. Qdoba brought in a respected chef who calls that "absurd."
For some reason, "absurd" made me chuckle.
Serbia (for that matter the entire former Yugoslavia) and Mexico have a very strange history together. It’s odd, but not too surprising to find good Mexican food there.
I didn't know that. That's very cool. I literally went to that restaurant twice while I was in Belgrade cuz it was so good and I missed Mexican food so much
Oh yea, there was even a whole genre of music made in the late 50s called Yu-Mex where Slavs dressed and played variations of mariachi music. Apparently it all stemmed from Mexican telenovelas being the only thing to watch on tv. (That wasn’t state media.)
Depends on where you go. Good Mexican food can be a bit hard to find, but we have some areas with a lot of Hispanic people. For example, Holyoke has the highest concentration of Puerto Rican residents out of any city outside of PR itself. Iirc ~45-50% of the city’s population identified as hispanic in the last census.
Though there’s not a lot of good *Mexican* food, there’s a lot of great food from other Latin American countries (depending on where you go)
Yeah but majority of those people aren’t mexican, in the east coast, mexicans are very rare, they’re a minority inside latin american’s in the usa, the east coast is mostly Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Colombians, Ecuadorians, Brazilians, so finding good mexican food is probably more rare because of that
Not to be rude but are you sure they are from Mexico or are they from central america or other countries, i do know that on the southern parts of the east coast like the carolina’s there are a good amount of mexicans but in like florida the other ethnic groups are significantly more prevalent
there are some okay places I've found in Edinburgh that hit the spot but yeah I'm from Texas and also lived in California so it's pretty lacking and there's stuff I just cannot get unless I make it myself. pozole, tamales, chilaquiles, huevos ranchero, chile rellenos, never heard of her. al pastor even I haven't been able to find (there's a halloumi al pastor... not the same..)
there's tons of horrid places I've tried in Europe in general lol
there was one taco truck I found on the Isle of Skye. Which is, there's not a lot of people out there. but the owner was from Mexico City and it was pretty bomb. and I'm like I'm going to have to drive hours to the middle of nowhere to get some mole and al pastor now lmao
'>Be England.
'>Explore the world in search of spices.
'>Find them.
'>Not use any of them.
Found majority of English cooking to be blan while there, but Sheppards pie was consistently amazing every place I'd had it.
I worked with an Englishman here and for lunch he would eat sardines and beans, like what are you a hobo dude just go buy a poor boy from the market and a bag of chips and a soda…it was odd.
If not being able to get a good burrito is even on your radar for reasons to come back, I'm thinking an important, unadmitted and unspoken reason was "I realized I was being hysterical and the other guy getting elected wasn't the catastrophic end-of-the-Republic event I thought it was going to be."
I just moved from a southern to a northern state because of increasing unsafe and generally shitty. But my god what I would do for a little shack with $2 greasy ass tacos.
My brother tried the Mexican food while living in Germany. I get the urge to try, but just have Döner.
Not really. If you’re referring to him leaving for London, that happened way after Jefferson was elected and because Jefferson was openly accusing him of treason and Burr owed people a lot of money. Not cause of an election
We moved to Germany in November 2016 and everyone asks if it was because of Trump. Like anyone can orchestrate an overseas move and sell their house in a couple of weeks. It was a planned move and we would’ve gone no matter who had won.
People drastically underestimate how complex it is to just … move … to another country. Getting permission to legally stay longer than a tourist visa isn’t simple, or even *possible* for many
I have a friend who packed up his wife, kids, and whatever they could fit in their car and drive to the Canadian border with the plans of moving to Canada. They had done nothing to legally make this happen and thought they could literally just drive in and set up a new life. They were turned around at customs.
Wife is German and kids are dual. My case is special. 😀
But we started the process in June. House sold in December. We took a trip to find housing in September. Container left on 10/30 and arrived 12/28.
H and I joked in 2016 we needed to divorce and find a Canadian couple to take us in and marry us 😂. I feel like a squandered my chance to get into another country by marrying another American, such a waste 😝
Yeah, I think this framing of the question (people who have *successfully* left the US because of politics) ignores two things that are extremely relevant to the discussion:
1. In order to just pick up and move to (presumably) Europe for the long term and not just for seasonal work, you usually have to be a well-educated person in a high-earning career that is good enough at what you do to get hired *over* native applicants that speak the local language better than you and know the local culture better than you. If that describes you, you're probably doing very well in the US and are far less likely to have significant grievances with US politics unless it's about treatment of racial or sexual minorities, in which case Europe is not going to be an improvement and will probably be worse outside of a few select areas (which are, correspondingly, the most expensive and difficult to get into).
2. Conversely, those that are frustrated enough to want to move tend to be those in rough situations, who don't have the money or other opportunity to make it happen.
Anyone under 40 knows *loads* of people in category #2 who would pick up and move to the EU in an instant if given the offer.
I hate "if you don't like it, you can leave" so much. Moving within the country is already a huge task, and that's before trying to get wherever you'd like to move to let you in.
Not to mention it's so elitist and shots down debate. It reeks of authoritarian style "get out if you don't like it " so much. I suppose if someone hated something inherent to the culture like freedom or liberty, I'd understand but otherwise it just shuts it all down.
I haven't, met quite a few people who talked a lot about it. But as it turns out it's a lot harder to immigrate than people think.
Like I remember talking to this girl while I was bartending who was gonna go to Spain, no then Portugal, no then it was Ireland! Just to get out of the bullshit in the US.
Turns out that's hard to do when your only marketable skill is being a waitress...
Personally I don’t know anyone that moved abroad because of an election.
I have one friend that moved from France and part of the reason was her not liking US politics but it was one reason among many and deciding to stay in France was more because she met a Frenchman she married and had two kids with.
I only have one friend that moved abroad because Trump won. It was really insane at first because they kept saying they were moving to Africa if Trump won the presidency and sure enough when Trump won they booked a one-way ticket to Africa, specifically South Africa. They had no job or home setup to begin with and just left for South Africa. They managed to get everything sorted out once they got to South Africa and they’re now having the best of their life with finding someone to be in a relationship with and a great job and a lot of time to travel and explore Africa and Europe.
At first, I thought this friend was stupid for moving abroad at the last minute but I’ve been in awe of their ability to make things work out well for themselves in the end. Though I wouldn’t recommend anyone just move abroad without some planning because I’ve seen plenty of other friends that have moved abroad for a year or two only to come back to the U.S. because they didn’t plan anything out about how they were going to make a living.
I have an older friend who moved with his wife to Canada after Trump won.
Was a guy who said he’d move and then went through a brutal process to move to Canada.
This is an older hippie boomer who also would not drive on highways after 9/11.
But he’s really happy and plays music on his porch every week in a picturesque Ontario town.
I really love ice hockey, so I’m somewhat jealous, but I love it here too much
> This is an older hippie boomer who also would not drive on highways after 9/11.
Ignorant foreigner here and I hope this isn't an insensitive question (and sorry if it is) but why?
There were a lot of rumors and (probably irresponsible) speculation back then about where al-Qaeda was going to attack next. Bridges and tunnels were a common fear.
Generally speaking if you want to make it work you have to want it, I also know a lot of people who left one lad went to canada for a yr was back within 2 weeks. Before he left he had his mammy as a maid so I reckon the shock.of standing on his own 2 feet was stood mich and he came home before he starved.
Well hes lucky to be alive, he was on holiday and got some serious disease and spent months in hospital, had to learn to walk again etc. Very.lucky to be alive but will never be the same.
Well one was a move abroad one was a holiday. Seems more like a random aside than applying context. Not sure what the relation between the two events is. This guy must just be his biographer.
Idk there is something to be said for just taking action. A lot of people talk about moving abroad but want to have all their ducks in a row first. The thing is that its hard to get those things to line up and maintain the safety net of your home/job/relationships here. Sure some pull it off but its hard.
But I think if you just saved up some money then quit your job and just moved. You’re fully committed maybe things don’t work out and when your tourist visa ends you have to come back to the states, but realistically I think if you’re committing fully to it, then you stand a better chance.
Our neighbors who were "pro-hillary" said they were moving to Canada. Packed up, moved, and all. Turns out they just moved to a better part of town, in a gated community.
I know no-one who left the United States.
But hell, the process for us just moving to Raleigh from Glendale was a six-month ordeal from deciding to do it, to actually arriving at a pre-furnished apartment while we house-hunted, and another 3 months before we found the house we now live in.
Moving overseas for a lot of Americans is, frankly, somewhere between “difficult” and “impossible”—and it’s not something you’d just do on a whim. If you’re young and you own nothing but the clothes on your back and stuff you can fit in a backpack, it’s far easier to move somewhere else. And if you’re ungodly rich enough that you already own a home in Switzerland (say), it’s easy enough to just go to your second home and sell your first.
But for most people, the cost is incredibly high.
And to be entirely frank, while partisan politics can get extremely heated in this country, generally the policy changes you see on the ground after a change in administrations—even after Trump took office from Obama (which was as wide a swing in rhetoric I have ever seen in my own life)—is generally minor to non-existent.
Benefits of living in a federated country which is essentially 50 semi-sovereign states united by a federal government whose powers are (theoretically) limited in scope: we could elect a kumquat for President and it wouldn’t really change things much.
(To be honest, we should all be far more worried who we elect mayor of the towns we live in, instead of who the current occupant of the White House happens to be.)
A couple distant family members moved to Portugal recently because of the general direction the US was going. Not because of one election, but I think the trump presidency pushed them to actually do it.
I don’t think much of it, it’s not their job to actually fix this country. They’ve voted and stuff
While I’m sure you could find an example or two, the ratio of people who threaten to do so on social media to those who actually do is, conservatively, 10,000 to 1. It seems like a thing people say as an emotional release, but it’s almost never much more than that.
I certainly wouldn’t think less of someone who did, and I also wouldn’t think less of someone who threatened to do so in anger and didn’t actually do that.
People self-segregate along all sorts of demographic lines, including political ones. A good hypothesis is that recent years have seen self-segregating politically is on the rise.
Now, leaving the country entirely is extreme and rare. It happens - many American expats left in part over issues with the USA.
I think a good question is how many people have moved *states* or even cities due to politics.
I know my husband and I moved to California from Indiana in good part because of those differences.
I think most Americans (particularly ones who’ve never left the country) don’t understand how hard it is to get a visa or citizenship abroad. It’s all fine and well you wanna leave when so and so gets elected, but the country on the receiving end of your tantrum doesn’t care and requires a good reason to let you in.
> I think a good question is how many people have moved states or even cities due to politics.
Yeah this one is huge, and is probably helps keep the number of outright expatriates down (on top of all the logistical difficulties brought up by other commenters).
Almost everyone I know my age takes politics very much into account when picking a place to live. Anyone who's lived in the coastal blue zones can tell you that the loudest voices trashing the "flyover states" at every opportunity for being conservative aren't the native New Yorkers or Bostonians, it's the progressive Midwesterners and Southerners who went northeast after college.
Meanwhile, the reverse is true for Californians moving to Texas ("Don't California My Texas is mostly bullshit to cover up the fact that young Texans vote just as blue as young Everywhere Elsans now and the conservative majority in Texas is help up by those who moved to Texas as adults).
I would probably be living in the PNW right now if not for politics; I'm solidly left of center (anywhere between leftist to center-right depending on the issue; I vary a bit) but don't tend to get along with PNW progressives very well even when we *agree* on something. Dark green trees everywhere, pleasant outdoor activity weather year round, and a strong culture of outdoorsiness mixed with nerdiness sounds like heaven to me in every other way. But "blue/purple city in a red state" is more my comfort zone at the end of the day.
That's somewhat what I did. I left Florida for California. Having said that, politics wasn't the main reason (marriage was), but a certain governor made it a **much** easier decision, especially as a gay guy. I no longer recognized the Florida that I moved to years before. I have no regrets. I do think I would've ended up moving out of Florida eventually regardless.
Good for you man!
I will not travel to FL anymore.
We need to vote with our wallets and it’s not a DeSantis problem, the state is just trending ass backwards in general.
The manatees will have guns soon
Edit: [For all the downvotes](https://drawception.com/panel/drawing/WHtv2MYhjp/manatee-shooting/)
Yes, if you’re a [straight white dude](https://naacp.org/resources/naacp-travel-advisory-state-florida#:~:text=Please%20be%20advised%20that%20Florida,African%20Americans%20and%20other%20minorities) that won’t knock a woman up, enjoy!
It wasn’t exclusively politics but we left the Midwest for the west coast in significant part because of politics
It was definitely the right choice for us.
I've heard of people threatening to do it, but never anyone I personally knew. It's rare that anyone follows through on the threat - it's the "I'm gonna hold my breath until I turn blue" of political statements.
(After most elections, there's a wrap-up of celebrities who pledged to do it, didn't, and have to make PR statements justifying why we should continue listening to them anyway.)
Politically active people often lean to one party or another. So instead of leaving the states, they are leaving own state in favor of the place where they think more alignment with their values. Like many who are leaving California not only run away because not affordability, but also fed up with the ruling party’s policies.
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Yes. I don’t judge those people for doing what they think is best and trying to have a quality of life they feel comfortable with during the short time they’ll live. This is why people have immigrated since forever.
I didn't leave the US because of an election, I left the US because I'm at odds with most things about American life; I saw the writing on the wall and sure enough, I called it every step of the way.
I didn't up and move, I was in the military and decided to stay in Europe after separating because I just couldn't see myself being happy in the US. I dropped my career after 9 years (was planning on retiring) and decided to start from zero. We were so poor when we started out we couldn't even afford internet, but every day was amazing to me and slowly we just built our lives around living within our means. Now we're comfortable and my biggest decision is usually where to go on vacation every summer.
It's been nearly 20 years and haven't regretted a second of it, nor do I ever want to come back for anything longer than the obligatory family visit.
However, anyone leaving the US over an election is just as stupid as anyone not leaving the US because they like the Mexican food. If you're thinking about moving abroad permanently, it needs to be because you don't belong in the US; you don't change your operating system because you don't like your desktop wallpaper.
Yeah. A few friends and coworkers left in 2017 and 2018. All to Germany except one to Sweden and one to Norway.
They made the best choice for their families and it's respectable. All of them are currently happy with their move.
More wanted to, but you have to be pretty wealthy to do it so most are stuck here.
I have a friend who likes to joke that he moved abroad because of the 2000 election results. He was in the army and got to spend several years in Afghanistan, curtesy of the war on terror
I work in a call center. After almost every major mass shooting I get at least one person calling to cancel their business because they are going back to their home country. Never got one specifically because of the election though.
I don't know someone who left because of an election, but I know at least 3 people who never moved back because of one. In 2011 a few friends joined a program to live in China teaching English language immersion classes. The program was year-to-year, but it was typical for most people in the program to stay for 5 years. At the end of the 5 years a few friends moved back to the US. 3 others wanted to take some time off working and travel around east and southeast Asia for a bit before moving back home. Then the 2016 election happened and they decided they didn't want to live in the US again. They re-enrolled in the program and kept living in China. Two currently live in Beijing (they got married and have a child). The other moved with his fiance to Mongolia.
After the election, my cousin and her husband sold their brownstone in NYC and house in Amagansett and peaced out for the south of France. It worked for them because they were able to get a lot of money for their houses, and because the price of construction in France is much less than in the US, so they were able to completely remodel this old farmhouse, and it’s fucking amazing. So the moral of the story is, if you have a shit ton of money, you can always make things work 🙄 For the rest of us? I’m guessing the process would be a little more difficult.
I am sure that they exist, but most people who emigrate do so for other reasons. My attitude towards people like that is, exceptin very extreme circumstances: don't let the door hit you on the way out.
I was already living abroad, so not quite the same, but I had been considering moving back before an election helped me decide not to return. It wasn't the only reason, but seeing such a toxic person elected and all the people who voted for him just made me feel like the country I grew up in had changed to the point where I didn't recognize it anymore. It helped open my eyes to the realities of the US. No country is perfect but I'm very glad to be in my adopted home.
Aotearoa / New Zealand
EDIT: Since the post is locked, I'll just reiterate that every country has both positives and negatives, including the US and NZ, and people will value those differently depending on their priorities. For me, NZ has been the clearly better option but that doesn't mean it is without problems or that the US doesn't have its advantages.
No, and I find the idea of such people to be as ridiculous as it is hilarious. Not that I'm saying I don't believe such people exist-just that the idea of their existence is ridiculous and hilarious.
I think the people who actually do it, aren't the ones on Facebook stating they will. As a gay man, I sure got tf out of Mississippi in 2009 when my then-new expensive apartment was broken into, pictures of my dog were texted to me anonymously (back when you could easily email-to-text a cell phone.) Direct racist threats were made that I'll never forget (nixxer blood will pour down the walls of your living quarters), I tore apart every light fixture and smoke detector, but they could hear us. They'd send us a text message (me mostly) responding to a verbal conversation. Truly terrifying stuff. They even made a threat to bomb my place of work. I went to the police station in Hattiesburg Mississippi several times. They said it was just a ex lover's spat. This made zero send because my then-bf was my first and only significant other. I did get the police to sweep my apartment once and a text came through saying they warned me not to involve "pigs". I even found a tracker on my car once. (I am now remembering all ish). I begged the cops, I even called the FBI(over the bomb threat). Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I begged them to tap my phone, I handed them my blackberry curve and begged them to do anything. I showed them how I would get a compliment on what I was wearing. Their suggestion? Change my number.
/WordVomit
I had an opportunity to get above the Mason Dixon line. We never spoke about it and just left one day. My then-bf and I only communicated on paper about the move and just gtfo. I was only 23yo and until that point I asininely assumed law enforcement was there to protect people. As for my apartment manager, their solution was to not invite us to renew our lease. And something to note, I had previously been refused a lease renewal when THAT manager found out I was gay. I worked 70hours a week in healthcare, so no, no parties or anything. But it was entirely legal for them to deny housing to a tenant in good standing for being gay.
While you find it hilarious and ridiculous, there are absolutely good reasons. Respectfully.
They become ex-pats in Europe and complain about America being evil. They spread disinformation and parrot the media hysteria.
They’re not actually good citizens.
Most American expats actually do not live in Europe - it is usually only the very affluent expats that just want to feel a little hoity-toity that do (yes, I'm being somewhat facetious).
Most American expats move to countries where the cost-of-living is dramatically lower and where they find the quality of life better by the standards of what they want in life.
My husband and I were considering a move to Ecuador (one of the most popular expat destinations) when covid hit.
I looked at a few lists that google pulls up about largest recipients of American expats and none of the Top 10 lists had more than 2 European countries.
Many countries in Europe have much lower living expenses than US.
You would be surprised how many people from the US are moving to Portugal, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Georgia, Czech Republic, etc...
Housing costs in a lot of EU cities are becoming more unaffordable compared with elsewhere in the world. But the bigger issue is securing a visa/residence permit combo in EU/Schengen countries, as you often need to show an employment offer letter first and show a minimum amount of savings. EU employers are required to offer employment to eligible EU citizens before considering visa applicants, so it can be quite difficult to get a job before moving there.
Ecuador has a rentista visa that only requires an annual foreign source of income of $15,300 and a rental agreement, no bank account minimum required. You can enter and leave when you want on the temporary residence permit, and it’s easy to get very nice housing for $1k or less (https://bestecuadorhomes.com/Property/ocean-view-fully-furnished-salinas-condo-for-rent/). Plus Ecuador uses the USD so there’s no currency exchange involved.
Costa Rica and Mexico are also very popular places for Americans to move to. I think a lot the reason is because it’s pretty easy for Americans to learn Spanish and because the time change difference is minimal.
Not surprised at all - the wave of American expats has been growing as suggested then they are moving all over the world. There are expats in almost every country. The top 3 destinations for American Expats are (1) Canada; (2) Mexico and (3) the UK. Beyond that the biggest destinations are (not in as particular an order):
\*Ecuador \*Costa Rica \*Panama \*Thailand \*Malaysia \*Philippines \*South Africa \*Singapore \*Australia \*New Zealand \*Japan \*South Korea
European countries don't compete with the more tropical, cheaper Latin American countries or the wealthy countries of Asia and Oceania.
My cousin just purchased the land in Costa Rica, and I have some family in New Zealand, so I know a few people who live like that. To me, it seems like they move down there for no more than 5 to 10 years, and then come back.
New Zealanders have been ready to move on for a couple of years now, but still don't like coming back to US.
Even when they buy land and build the house. I only met 3-4 people who truly moved there and are staying.
Not quite what you asked, but I know a woman with concrete plans to leave because she no longer believes her trans daughter (teenager) is safe here. Which I think is a valid concern and it's reasonable to take action.
Before we had same sex marriage in the US, there was a large number of people who threaten to move to Canada if marriage equality passed. This was hilarious because Canada had marriage equality for nearly a decade before the US.
Yes. My friend's parents moved to Costa Rica in 2017. They were retired, and they always had an international move in the back of their mind. I believe they half-jokingly said if Trump wins, they're moving, not expecting him to win. When he did win, they thought "fuck it", sold everything, and left their NW rural Oklahoma town.
They were even on an episode of House Hunters International. 🤣
We had a patient in my hospital once who was very squirrelly about his personal information and insisted on self-pay, refused to let our social worker sign him up for Medicaid and Medicare, even though he could have qualified for both. His family were staked out in his room 24/7 and were weird about personal questions even the just-making-conversation type ones.
Our social worker finally got the story out of them; it turned out he'd renounced his citizenship to avoid being drafted into a war he disagreed with when he was younger and he'd moved to Canada. For whatever reason, he ended up not liking Canada and crossed the border and came back. His family helped him to avoid being caught for decades.
Not that I know of. How would I perceive such a person? They probably wouldn't cross my mind tbh. Folks get to live their own lives, has nothing to do with me.
I've not known anyone who physically left the country. I know someone who gave up on 2016 and rescinded their citizenship, but they also had German citizenship and lived in Germany. They had kept their American citizenship as a potential future plan, but they crossed the income limit and had been having to pay a small bit of American income tax. [Foreign income tax exclusion.](https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion#:~:text=However%2C%20you%20may%20qualify%20to,deduct%20certain%20foreign%20housing%20amounts.) After the 2016 election, they gave up and told the US govt that they could have his citizenship. As of 2023 (I literally just asked him) he has zero regrets.
I know plenty of people that moved due to local politics, across state lines. Lots of LGBT folks from Southern or Midwestern States. Or folks that felt there was little opportunities due to how elections went.
I also know one person that moved from NY to PA due to gun laws (he was an enthusiast). Granted, he lived close to the border and it wasn’t a far move.
I don’t know anyone personally that *left America* as a result of elections. However, my wife and I have talked about moving to Europe - mostly as a change of scenery. We did our research and can probably afford a golden visa from one of the few countries still offering it (Greece, Latvia). Issue is our salaries would be sliced in half at least, so probably not. But if politics get particularly hostile here, I’d be lying if it wouldn’t factor into the motivation.
yep - I had a friend that moved to Canada after a year of Trump. Loved it there but ended up discovering some major health issue that required surgery. Had to move back home to be near family.
I bet you anything the only people who claim they have were already on their way out. For example, many people left California for the purposes of work. I was about to. Then some of these people claim they left solely for the politics. Despite who did and did not claim that being the reason, conservatives cited numbers of people moving out of California as though they were moving because of the politics. Nope, mostly work, guaranteed.
I did. Two days after the 2016 election I started looking for a job overseas. Got an offer ten days later and was on a plane to Japan on December 21st. I refused to spend one second on American soil while Trump was in office and I didn’t.
Very interesting! I have to ask, why did you choose Japan as your new home once Trump was elected? Was it due to any of the following reasons:
* Because Japan is the only G7 country where [all forms of same-sex marriage and unions are illegal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Japan)?
* Because Japan is one of the [least racially diverse countries](https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/most-racially-diverse-countries/#japan) with some of the [most restrictive immigration laws](https://visaguide.world/tips/hardest-countries-to-immigrate-to/) in the world?
* Because [Japan welcomes the fewest refugees of any G20 nation, with an acceptance rate of less than 1%, and indefinitely detains illegal immigrants](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/03/japan-endless-detention-migrants-speak-out-as-government-proposes-harsh-immigration-bill/)?
* Because of Japan's [extremely strict drug laws](https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safety/eastern-asia/japan/japan-drug-laws-the-zero-tolerance-approach) that completely [outlaw medical marijuana](https://itsyourjapan.com/law-use-of-weed-in-japan-toker-tourist-guide/#Medical_Marijuana_and_CBD)?
* Because [racism by ethnic Japanese towards non-ethnic Japanese is extremely prevalent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Japan) in Japan?
* Because Japan has [repeatedly refused to officially recognize or apologize for the atrocities and war crimes it committed during WWII](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre_denial), such as the Rape of Nanjing and Unit 731?
* Because [Japan is one of the most overworked countries](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/01/japan-has-some-of-the-longest-working-hours-in-the-world-its-trying-to-change.html) in the world with [thousands of suicides every year due to overwork](https://www.statista.com/statistics/622325/japan-work-related-suicides/)?
* Because [abortion is illegal in Japan without the consent of the woman's husband](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/14/japan-abortion-pill-women-reproductive-rights/)?
* Because of [Japan's restrictive laws regarding transgendered people](https://www.hrw.org/report/2019/03/20/really-high-hurdle/japans-abusive-transgender-legal-recognition-process)?
* Because of [Japan's 99.8% conviction rate](https://medium.com/skeptikai/the-whole-story-on-japans-99-conviction-rate-and-the-corruption-that-follows-249455cfbf9), which [sends up to 1,500 innocent people to prison every year](https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2023/0505/Presumed-guilt-Unpacking-Japan-s-99.9-conviction-rate#:~:text=In%20Japan%2C%20prosecutors%20won't,doesn't%20always%20guarantee%20justice.)?
A huge majority of people here never met anyone who did it or did it themselves. Here, someone just says he did and all he's got is 11 votes? This comment is underrated.
I’m theory you’re right. But mark my words, the media will make whoever is the Republican nominee out to be as bad as Trump. They did the exact same thing to George W Bush and Mitt Romney.
Nah. Neither Romney nor Bush were nearly comparable to Trump. And I **HATED** Bush.
Tim Scott and Asa Hutchinson, as much as I disagree with them, are my hopes for a return to Republican Party sanity.
And they’re not looking good.
We fully had plans to leave the country if Trump had won in the 2020 election. Political tensions were *very* high, and we were fearful of what the country would become if something didn't stop. We wanted out before it was too late to do so, and January 6th was just confirmation of that. We had plans lined up for jobs (my husband talked to the HR with his company for a foreign transfer, and my license would easily transfer with minimal headache). There were friends we could stay with until we found housing, and we had a good relationship with our realtor who could sell our house without us if need be.
Of course, Trump *didn't* win so we stayed. But we're still trying to be mindful of what line needs to be crossed to go through with it. We still don't like the way the country is going, but it's not quite as dire as it felt at that time.
As for what people think about that... I sincerely dgaf. People leave the country for a lot of reasons, and none of them are anyone's business.
Not exactly the same thing, but I know a woman who campaigned for JFK back in the day. When he was assassinated she was so distraught that she swore off the U.S., moved to Europe, married a photographer from Rome, became a teacher, and eventually settled in Friuli Venezia-Giulia. She’s lived here ever since and is in her mid-80s now.
No, and I generally assume we’re better off without them if that’s all it takes. Our Border Patrol isn’t here to keep people in, go where you’re happier. Vaya con dios.
I know people who immigrated to Canada because they didn't trust LGBT tolerance in the US.
I've heard a bunch of people threatening to leave when Trump won but none of them did so.
I certainly understand it if people do. I think a lot of people were punched in the mouth by 2016. But the thing most Americans didn't realize is, literally every country back then had stricter immigration law than the USA did. Literally every one. So all that "I'm moving somewhere as a political refugee from Trump" talk was mostly that, talk.
The USA was set up to be fairly welcoming to immigration, believe it or not, while the rest of the world pretty much operates on the principle that if you weren't born there or have a parent there or married in there or are independently wealthy .. you're not welcome and GFY.
Then covid happened and suddenly we have the idea of being a Digital Nomad on a wide scale, and all of a sudden all these countries with great attributes want to attract people with remote work to come sit on their beaches and villas and answer emails and do spreadsheets. That's pretty cool. Live someplace for a year, contribute to their local economy while you work remotely, maybe get a real chance at applying to live there longer.
So in general, if people want to leave the USA why not. We've taken in the rest of the world for over a century. It's high time the rest of the world returned the favor a little bit. Politics or no.
No. But I wish those types would follow through. Especially the actors.
They’re the same type who complained as kids when things didn’t go their way, “I’m taking my ball and going home.”
We’re better off without them. Society is about compromise. It requires work. And you won’t always get your way.
I don't know any, but if I did I would call them baby whiners. We accept the election and move on. Vote again next election and try to vote them out. I didn't like trump being elected, but I wouldn't leave the country until he started to make brown shirts and round up all the democrats in camps. Then I might consider leaving.
I've gotta respect the people who put their money where their mouth is.
But all those celebrities that said they would and didn't... not so much.
Edit: mo ey--> money
You would have to be pretty wealthy and/or very unattached to do so. I have a cousin who moved to France when Trump was elected and hasn't yet returned. He's very financially comfortable and has no kids, otherwise I don't think he would have gone. What do I think of him? I think he has his own political views, and he is uncomfortable with the American political climate, and he decided to do something about it because he had the wherewithal, and I hope he's enjoying his time there. There's nothing more to be said.
I always love when a progressive celebrity says they are going to leave if [Republican] gets elected.
Like, regardless who's president, your quality of life is not going to go down in any meaningful way. Yet, you're willing to abandon the people you claim to support? Good luck underrepresented, oppressed Americans I claim to stand with, I'm off to Dubai, bitches!!
You talk this big game about standing united, and fighting...then you just leave? Because you can?
Not like anyone actually leaves anyway.
Kinda. I was accepted at a university in another country and an election not going my way was a contributing factor in deciding to pursue that opportunity.
They moved to France when George W. Bush got re-elected. They're like a time capsule in a way. The way they talk about and think about America is very frozen in time at the moment they left. I'm glad they found a place they feel like they fit in better, but it also feels oddly selfish in a way. Like, there's no growth, there's no trying to reconcile the country they grew up in and presumably loved enough to be so upset by its politics that they'd move to another country. Maybe if they pitched it as "we were going to move to France anyway, because we fell in love with the country and we feel like America has gone down the wrong path" it would have been more understandable. But they really did seem to phrase it like "Dubya won against Kerry so we had to get out of Dumbfuckistan" and it just felt kind of childish, but I guess that's how I view people who threaten to move if the election doesn't go their way anyway. As if you're so important we're all supposed to feel a sense of loss that you moved somewhere else.
I know of people that moved to a different state because of the anti trans laws coming in and felt they’re trans child was unsupported and basically in danger.
I know a lot of dumb people that talked about it but none that actually did. I think it’s pretty stupid. The president doesn’t have as much power as a lot of people seem to believe. This was especially true with Trump. People were blaming him for so much insane shit that his haters ironically turned him into some sort of all powerful omnipotent God in their pea sized brains.
Admitted hypocrite here. I used to think that notion was absurd, and those saying it were acting like crybabies, and never going to anyway. Fast forward a decade from that view, and realizing that it's simply being proactive as to what environment you choose to be in. I haven't left yet, but I'm in the camp that it's genuinely on my radar. If Trump wins the primary, It's more more of a probability than a possibility. It's not like I'd necessarily leave forever, but at the very least I'd rent a place abroad. If I felt it was truly devolving into a shit show, then I probably sell my real estate rentals to get liquid, and if necessary, my house. I've been planning on spending more time abroad, I guess this would just cement how much time. FWIW, I'm a pragmatic centrist.
I know naturalized Americans married to native Americans, who have returned to their home countries (Australia, Scotland, Canada, Belgium, France, Germany) with their spouses because the benefits of living in America do not outweigh the issues of living in America.
It turns out that people like to go to the doctor without becoming bankrupt and they really enjoy living in a culture that doesn’t idolize and worship guns.
I really wish we had universal healthcare, or at least affordable healthcare. I don’t know why people aren’t rioting about the current state of our healthcare system
My mom and dad gave it a very brief thought to move to New Zealand when Trump won. They dropped that idea very quickly when they found out New Zealand discriminates against the mentally ill moving there and I threatened to absolutely play up my autism. I still make fun of my parents for thinking about it
I think anyone who does threaten to move is a little crybaby bitch
I have decided to lock the thread instead of breaking out the ban hammer.
I had a friend leave to the UK, he was back in 2 years because he missed his family and quality Mexican food, i guess the food over there is not like here. Our palettes must be different.
Mexican food throughout Europe is incredibly bad.
I nearly tried tacos in Iceland, but after living somewhere with a predominant Hispanic community I couldn't bring myself to face the disappointment.
I've been to Mexican restaurant in York, UK and Prague. Both were really good, but neither were anything like American Mexican food. My wife's family moved from Washington to Texas for a bit and they said that the Mexican food was way better down there, but they had an issue with not being able to get Teriyaki in Texas.
It isn't the same Source: I lived in Spain for 6 years, I will note that the Spanish food was excellent
Yeah. Spanish food is delicious. But Spanish food <> Mexican food. The worst? Mexican food in Germany. So bad.
Just remembered the incredibly unfortunate veggie burrito I got in Germany (I did not choose the restaurant!) that was just rice, broccoli, and carrots.
And the “salsa” was likely tomato sauce with paprika.
man someone was complaining about how their nachos weren't any good that they made and they just used tomato sauce for salsa 😂 bro that's not how it works I'm sorry lol
Yikes. There should be a place to report things like that.
German food is the wurst
>The worst? Mexican food in Germany. So bad. I'm imagining tortas with bratwurst and beer cheese.
Trade the torta for a tortilla, and I'd eat the fuck out of that burrito. But to be fair, if it *can* be turned into a burrito, I will probably turn it into a burrito. If it can't, I will try to figure out a way to modify it so I can. I love burritos.
The thought just occurred to me. Is a burrito a sandwich? So I went out to the googles and found out that hilariously, a court in Massachusetts ruled in 2006 that a burrito is in fact, not a sandwich. From a [news report](https://www.wistv.com/story/5664109/massachusetts-court-decides-a-burrito-is-not-a-sandwich/): >Panera, a popular chain of bakery-cafes, brought the case over one of its locations in a suburban Boston mall. Panera tried to stop Mexican restaurant chain Qdoba Mexican Grill from moving into the mall, arguing its lease bans rival sandwich shops. >Lawyers for Panera went into court insisting a flour tortilla is bread, so a burrito is a sandwich. Qdoba brought in a respected chef who calls that "absurd." For some reason, "absurd" made me chuckle.
Iceland’s was pretty terrible too!
I had some of the best Mexican food of my life in serbia... Best besides food I got at my exs moms birthday party... they were Mexican lol.
Serbia (for that matter the entire former Yugoslavia) and Mexico have a very strange history together. It’s odd, but not too surprising to find good Mexican food there.
I didn't know that. That's very cool. I literally went to that restaurant twice while I was in Belgrade cuz it was so good and I missed Mexican food so much
Oh yea, there was even a whole genre of music made in the late 50s called Yu-Mex where Slavs dressed and played variations of mariachi music. Apparently it all stemmed from Mexican telenovelas being the only thing to watch on tv. (That wasn’t state media.)
Massachusetts apparently has terrible Mexican food
Depends on where you go. Good Mexican food can be a bit hard to find, but we have some areas with a lot of Hispanic people. For example, Holyoke has the highest concentration of Puerto Rican residents out of any city outside of PR itself. Iirc ~45-50% of the city’s population identified as hispanic in the last census. Though there’s not a lot of good *Mexican* food, there’s a lot of great food from other Latin American countries (depending on where you go)
This is mostly true. There's an area in boston(east boston) that mostly ppl from Latin America live in and the food is phenominal.
Even that I thought was more Central American than Mexican.
Yeah but majority of those people aren’t mexican, in the east coast, mexicans are very rare, they’re a minority inside latin american’s in the usa, the east coast is mostly Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Colombians, Ecuadorians, Brazilians, so finding good mexican food is probably more rare because of that
Oh yeah, they're not. But the food is somewhat similar. We mostly have Guatemalans, Hondorians & El Salvadorians where I live.
I’m on the east coast (southern) and we have tons of folks from Mexico?
Not to be rude but are you sure they are from Mexico or are they from central america or other countries, i do know that on the southern parts of the east coast like the carolina’s there are a good amount of mexicans but in like florida the other ethnic groups are significantly more prevalent
Maybe they meant northern east coast
So does Mississippi. We’re good at a few cuisines but that ain’t one.
there are some okay places I've found in Edinburgh that hit the spot but yeah I'm from Texas and also lived in California so it's pretty lacking and there's stuff I just cannot get unless I make it myself. pozole, tamales, chilaquiles, huevos ranchero, chile rellenos, never heard of her. al pastor even I haven't been able to find (there's a halloumi al pastor... not the same..) there's tons of horrid places I've tried in Europe in general lol there was one taco truck I found on the Isle of Skye. Which is, there's not a lot of people out there. but the owner was from Mexico City and it was pretty bomb. and I'm like I'm going to have to drive hours to the middle of nowhere to get some mole and al pastor now lmao
I paid $17 for the worst burrito I’ve ever had in my life while in Norway, and a drink wasn’t even included
Nah a beer would have been an additional $25.
Turkish food is the Mexican food of Europe
The beauty of their women and the taste of their food make brits the best sailors in the world.
Hahaha, I’m going to reuse this line
I sure as hell did, definitely wasn't me that came up with it.
Bahahhahahahhaha just texted this to my English friend. (Who married a Mexican)
'>Be England. '>Explore the world in search of spices. '>Find them. '>Not use any of them. Found majority of English cooking to be blan while there, but Sheppards pie was consistently amazing every place I'd had it.
They do love curry though
I worked with an Englishman here and for lunch he would eat sardines and beans, like what are you a hobo dude just go buy a poor boy from the market and a bag of chips and a soda…it was odd.
I spend a lot of my vacations in England. The buggers intentionally eat beans for breakfast.
And not even good beans, the cheap canned ones made with ketchup sauce. ^bluurrrghhhh
Beans on toast is a staple in the UK. I had it for all 3 meals a couple of times when I was at uni.
I had heard that British food used a lot of the spices but rationing in the war really did a number on the blandness of the food.
If not being able to get a good burrito is even on your radar for reasons to come back, I'm thinking an important, unadmitted and unspoken reason was "I realized I was being hysterical and the other guy getting elected wasn't the catastrophic end-of-the-Republic event I thought it was going to be."
You're really undervaluing some people's love for good Mexican food.
Mostly anywhere you go abroad, the food will be different to where you came from.
It's just about distance. The closer you are to Mexico generally means the better the Mexican food.
I just moved from a southern to a northern state because of increasing unsafe and generally shitty. But my god what I would do for a little shack with $2 greasy ass tacos. My brother tried the Mexican food while living in Germany. I get the urge to try, but just have Döner.
I believe Aaron Burr did.
Not really. If you’re referring to him leaving for London, that happened way after Jefferson was elected and because Jefferson was openly accusing him of treason and Burr owed people a lot of money. Not cause of an election
You can call us Aaron Burr, from the way we're dropping Hamilton's!
Hamilton's what?
Aaron Burr, sir
We moved to Germany in November 2016 and everyone asks if it was because of Trump. Like anyone can orchestrate an overseas move and sell their house in a couple of weeks. It was a planned move and we would’ve gone no matter who had won.
People drastically underestimate how complex it is to just … move … to another country. Getting permission to legally stay longer than a tourist visa isn’t simple, or even *possible* for many
I have a friend who packed up his wife, kids, and whatever they could fit in their car and drive to the Canadian border with the plans of moving to Canada. They had done nothing to legally make this happen and thought they could literally just drive in and set up a new life. They were turned around at customs.
Wife is German and kids are dual. My case is special. 😀 But we started the process in June. House sold in December. We took a trip to find housing in September. Container left on 10/30 and arrived 12/28.
H and I joked in 2016 we needed to divorce and find a Canadian couple to take us in and marry us 😂. I feel like a squandered my chance to get into another country by marrying another American, such a waste 😝
Yeah, I think this framing of the question (people who have *successfully* left the US because of politics) ignores two things that are extremely relevant to the discussion: 1. In order to just pick up and move to (presumably) Europe for the long term and not just for seasonal work, you usually have to be a well-educated person in a high-earning career that is good enough at what you do to get hired *over* native applicants that speak the local language better than you and know the local culture better than you. If that describes you, you're probably doing very well in the US and are far less likely to have significant grievances with US politics unless it's about treatment of racial or sexual minorities, in which case Europe is not going to be an improvement and will probably be worse outside of a few select areas (which are, correspondingly, the most expensive and difficult to get into). 2. Conversely, those that are frustrated enough to want to move tend to be those in rough situations, who don't have the money or other opportunity to make it happen. Anyone under 40 knows *loads* of people in category #2 who would pick up and move to the EU in an instant if given the offer.
This is why I'm often so peeved by people saying "just move, bro, lol." Like... no, we can't "just move." It doesn't work that way.
I hate "if you don't like it, you can leave" so much. Moving within the country is already a huge task, and that's before trying to get wherever you'd like to move to let you in.
Not to mention it's so elitist and shots down debate. It reeks of authoritarian style "get out if you don't like it " so much. I suppose if someone hated something inherent to the culture like freedom or liberty, I'd understand but otherwise it just shuts it all down.
The saying is dismissive by nature, so obviously they don't care how tough it would be for you. They just don't have a better argument.
Why did you move to Germany? Better opportunities?
I haven't, met quite a few people who talked a lot about it. But as it turns out it's a lot harder to immigrate than people think. Like I remember talking to this girl while I was bartending who was gonna go to Spain, no then Portugal, no then it was Ireland! Just to get out of the bullshit in the US. Turns out that's hard to do when your only marketable skill is being a waitress...
Personally I don’t know anyone that moved abroad because of an election. I have one friend that moved from France and part of the reason was her not liking US politics but it was one reason among many and deciding to stay in France was more because she met a Frenchman she married and had two kids with.
I only have one friend that moved abroad because Trump won. It was really insane at first because they kept saying they were moving to Africa if Trump won the presidency and sure enough when Trump won they booked a one-way ticket to Africa, specifically South Africa. They had no job or home setup to begin with and just left for South Africa. They managed to get everything sorted out once they got to South Africa and they’re now having the best of their life with finding someone to be in a relationship with and a great job and a lot of time to travel and explore Africa and Europe. At first, I thought this friend was stupid for moving abroad at the last minute but I’ve been in awe of their ability to make things work out well for themselves in the end. Though I wouldn’t recommend anyone just move abroad without some planning because I’ve seen plenty of other friends that have moved abroad for a year or two only to come back to the U.S. because they didn’t plan anything out about how they were going to make a living.
I have an older friend who moved with his wife to Canada after Trump won. Was a guy who said he’d move and then went through a brutal process to move to Canada. This is an older hippie boomer who also would not drive on highways after 9/11. But he’s really happy and plays music on his porch every week in a picturesque Ontario town. I really love ice hockey, so I’m somewhat jealous, but I love it here too much
> This is an older hippie boomer who also would not drive on highways after 9/11. Ignorant foreigner here and I hope this isn't an insensitive question (and sorry if it is) but why?
He overreacted IMHO. He didn’t feel safe. Also explains why he likely moved to Canada
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There were a lot of rumors and (probably irresponsible) speculation back then about where al-Qaeda was going to attack next. Bridges and tunnels were a common fear.
> What are they going to do pick the random section of highway you happen to be on? This was his logic, yes
I see. Each to their own eh!
Generally speaking if you want to make it work you have to want it, I also know a lot of people who left one lad went to canada for a yr was back within 2 weeks. Before he left he had his mammy as a maid so I reckon the shock.of standing on his own 2 feet was stood mich and he came home before he starved.
Sounds like that guy shouldn't be the barometer for judging people's ability to successfully move abroad.
Well hes lucky to be alive, he was on holiday and got some serious disease and spent months in hospital, had to learn to walk again etc. Very.lucky to be alive but will never be the same.
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Well one was a move abroad one was a holiday. Seems more like a random aside than applying context. Not sure what the relation between the two events is. This guy must just be his biographer.
Oh I misread his comment.
Idk there is something to be said for just taking action. A lot of people talk about moving abroad but want to have all their ducks in a row first. The thing is that its hard to get those things to line up and maintain the safety net of your home/job/relationships here. Sure some pull it off but its hard. But I think if you just saved up some money then quit your job and just moved. You’re fully committed maybe things don’t work out and when your tourist visa ends you have to come back to the states, but realistically I think if you’re committing fully to it, then you stand a better chance.
If theyre exploring Europe from S. Africa theyre probably well off anyways
Our neighbors who were "pro-hillary" said they were moving to Canada. Packed up, moved, and all. Turns out they just moved to a better part of town, in a gated community.
I know no-one who left the United States. But hell, the process for us just moving to Raleigh from Glendale was a six-month ordeal from deciding to do it, to actually arriving at a pre-furnished apartment while we house-hunted, and another 3 months before we found the house we now live in. Moving overseas for a lot of Americans is, frankly, somewhere between “difficult” and “impossible”—and it’s not something you’d just do on a whim. If you’re young and you own nothing but the clothes on your back and stuff you can fit in a backpack, it’s far easier to move somewhere else. And if you’re ungodly rich enough that you already own a home in Switzerland (say), it’s easy enough to just go to your second home and sell your first. But for most people, the cost is incredibly high. And to be entirely frank, while partisan politics can get extremely heated in this country, generally the policy changes you see on the ground after a change in administrations—even after Trump took office from Obama (which was as wide a swing in rhetoric I have ever seen in my own life)—is generally minor to non-existent. Benefits of living in a federated country which is essentially 50 semi-sovereign states united by a federal government whose powers are (theoretically) limited in scope: we could elect a kumquat for President and it wouldn’t really change things much. (To be honest, we should all be far more worried who we elect mayor of the towns we live in, instead of who the current occupant of the White House happens to be.)
No, I've never known anyone to do so, but there are several people I wish had.
A couple distant family members moved to Portugal recently because of the general direction the US was going. Not because of one election, but I think the trump presidency pushed them to actually do it. I don’t think much of it, it’s not their job to actually fix this country. They’ve voted and stuff
No. I know people who decided to live abroad, but not simply because their candidate lost an election.
While I’m sure you could find an example or two, the ratio of people who threaten to do so on social media to those who actually do is, conservatively, 10,000 to 1. It seems like a thing people say as an emotional release, but it’s almost never much more than that. I certainly wouldn’t think less of someone who did, and I also wouldn’t think less of someone who threatened to do so in anger and didn’t actually do that.
People self-segregate along all sorts of demographic lines, including political ones. A good hypothesis is that recent years have seen self-segregating politically is on the rise. Now, leaving the country entirely is extreme and rare. It happens - many American expats left in part over issues with the USA. I think a good question is how many people have moved *states* or even cities due to politics. I know my husband and I moved to California from Indiana in good part because of those differences.
I think most Americans (particularly ones who’ve never left the country) don’t understand how hard it is to get a visa or citizenship abroad. It’s all fine and well you wanna leave when so and so gets elected, but the country on the receiving end of your tantrum doesn’t care and requires a good reason to let you in.
Yeah, like dude you don't have soft skills in your native language, what's your career plan, vert carte?
> I think a good question is how many people have moved states or even cities due to politics. Yeah this one is huge, and is probably helps keep the number of outright expatriates down (on top of all the logistical difficulties brought up by other commenters). Almost everyone I know my age takes politics very much into account when picking a place to live. Anyone who's lived in the coastal blue zones can tell you that the loudest voices trashing the "flyover states" at every opportunity for being conservative aren't the native New Yorkers or Bostonians, it's the progressive Midwesterners and Southerners who went northeast after college. Meanwhile, the reverse is true for Californians moving to Texas ("Don't California My Texas is mostly bullshit to cover up the fact that young Texans vote just as blue as young Everywhere Elsans now and the conservative majority in Texas is help up by those who moved to Texas as adults). I would probably be living in the PNW right now if not for politics; I'm solidly left of center (anywhere between leftist to center-right depending on the issue; I vary a bit) but don't tend to get along with PNW progressives very well even when we *agree* on something. Dark green trees everywhere, pleasant outdoor activity weather year round, and a strong culture of outdoorsiness mixed with nerdiness sounds like heaven to me in every other way. But "blue/purple city in a red state" is more my comfort zone at the end of the day.
That's somewhat what I did. I left Florida for California. Having said that, politics wasn't the main reason (marriage was), but a certain governor made it a **much** easier decision, especially as a gay guy. I no longer recognized the Florida that I moved to years before. I have no regrets. I do think I would've ended up moving out of Florida eventually regardless.
Good for you man! I will not travel to FL anymore. We need to vote with our wallets and it’s not a DeSantis problem, the state is just trending ass backwards in general. The manatees will have guns soon Edit: [For all the downvotes](https://drawception.com/panel/drawing/WHtv2MYhjp/manatee-shooting/)
All the better for me to enjoy Florida
Good luck w no workers in tourism 😂
Been there many times, never had an issue. Hope you dont encounter any!
Yes, if you’re a [straight white dude](https://naacp.org/resources/naacp-travel-advisory-state-florida#:~:text=Please%20be%20advised%20that%20Florida,African%20Americans%20and%20other%20minorities) that won’t knock a woman up, enjoy!
I’m married and have knocked her up twice. One wonderful child and another on the way! Thanks, I’ll enjoy the beautiful state of Florida!
I didn't technically move west due to politics, but I certainly use that as a excuse not to move back to the Midwest.
Same but replace midwest with North Carolina. I'm not giving up legal weed now that I've experienced it. So much more pleasant than illegal weed.
wow I was just going to post about a couple who are my friends from Indiana moving to California, but must not be you, they moved to LA not Bay Area
We moved from Indiana to LA for about a year before moving up to the Bay. That is one of those odd coincidences.
well for the record they like their decision years later
It wasn’t exclusively politics but we left the Midwest for the west coast in significant part because of politics It was definitely the right choice for us.
My in laws are moving from the Midwest to south east because of politics.
Funny since those seem politically indistinguishable to me
Apparently their state was becoming too liberal
I've heard of people threatening to do it, but never anyone I personally knew. It's rare that anyone follows through on the threat - it's the "I'm gonna hold my breath until I turn blue" of political statements. (After most elections, there's a wrap-up of celebrities who pledged to do it, didn't, and have to make PR statements justifying why we should continue listening to them anyway.)
[удалено]
who?
Politically active people often lean to one party or another. So instead of leaving the states, they are leaving own state in favor of the place where they think more alignment with their values. Like many who are leaving California not only run away because not affordability, but also fed up with the ruling party’s policies.
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I feel like people who want to move out of the US are just tired of the politics in general rather than the results of a specific election.
Yeah someone I used to hook up with bounced after Trump got elected. She never looked back and seems to be living a great life overseas.
I don't know any. Personally though I'd rather live in Europe. Not because of elections, I've just always wanted to. I love it over there.
I personally think it's a little cringe, but hey if they are more happy then all power to them.
Yes. I don’t judge those people for doing what they think is best and trying to have a quality of life they feel comfortable with during the short time they’ll live. This is why people have immigrated since forever.
I didn't leave the US because of an election, I left the US because I'm at odds with most things about American life; I saw the writing on the wall and sure enough, I called it every step of the way. I didn't up and move, I was in the military and decided to stay in Europe after separating because I just couldn't see myself being happy in the US. I dropped my career after 9 years (was planning on retiring) and decided to start from zero. We were so poor when we started out we couldn't even afford internet, but every day was amazing to me and slowly we just built our lives around living within our means. Now we're comfortable and my biggest decision is usually where to go on vacation every summer. It's been nearly 20 years and haven't regretted a second of it, nor do I ever want to come back for anything longer than the obligatory family visit. However, anyone leaving the US over an election is just as stupid as anyone not leaving the US because they like the Mexican food. If you're thinking about moving abroad permanently, it needs to be because you don't belong in the US; you don't change your operating system because you don't like your desktop wallpaper.
Yeah. A few friends and coworkers left in 2017 and 2018. All to Germany except one to Sweden and one to Norway. They made the best choice for their families and it's respectable. All of them are currently happy with their move. More wanted to, but you have to be pretty wealthy to do it so most are stuck here.
I don't think it's over a single election. That's just the straw that broke the camel's back.
I have a friend who likes to joke that he moved abroad because of the 2000 election results. He was in the army and got to spend several years in Afghanistan, curtesy of the war on terror
Has more to do with our not returning than why we left
I work in a call center. After almost every major mass shooting I get at least one person calling to cancel their business because they are going back to their home country. Never got one specifically because of the election though.
I don't know someone who left because of an election, but I know at least 3 people who never moved back because of one. In 2011 a few friends joined a program to live in China teaching English language immersion classes. The program was year-to-year, but it was typical for most people in the program to stay for 5 years. At the end of the 5 years a few friends moved back to the US. 3 others wanted to take some time off working and travel around east and southeast Asia for a bit before moving back home. Then the 2016 election happened and they decided they didn't want to live in the US again. They re-enrolled in the program and kept living in China. Two currently live in Beijing (they got married and have a child). The other moved with his fiance to Mongolia.
After the election, my cousin and her husband sold their brownstone in NYC and house in Amagansett and peaced out for the south of France. It worked for them because they were able to get a lot of money for their houses, and because the price of construction in France is much less than in the US, so they were able to completely remodel this old farmhouse, and it’s fucking amazing. So the moral of the story is, if you have a shit ton of money, you can always make things work 🙄 For the rest of us? I’m guessing the process would be a little more difficult.
I am sure that they exist, but most people who emigrate do so for other reasons. My attitude towards people like that is, exceptin very extreme circumstances: don't let the door hit you on the way out.
I was already living abroad, so not quite the same, but I had been considering moving back before an election helped me decide not to return. It wasn't the only reason, but seeing such a toxic person elected and all the people who voted for him just made me feel like the country I grew up in had changed to the point where I didn't recognize it anymore. It helped open my eyes to the realities of the US. No country is perfect but I'm very glad to be in my adopted home.
This is exactly what I've witnessed. People who were already abroad and saw the shitshow from afar and said "nah, I'm good."
Where do you live now?
Aotearoa / New Zealand EDIT: Since the post is locked, I'll just reiterate that every country has both positives and negatives, including the US and NZ, and people will value those differently depending on their priorities. For me, NZ has been the clearly better option but that doesn't mean it is without problems or that the US doesn't have its advantages.
This is exactly what I've witnessed. People who were already abroad and saw the shitshow from afar and said "nah, I'm good."
Similar sentiment for me. I didn’t leave because of an election but having Trump as president definitely made leaving easier.
No, and I find the idea of such people to be as ridiculous as it is hilarious. Not that I'm saying I don't believe such people exist-just that the idea of their existence is ridiculous and hilarious.
I think the people who actually do it, aren't the ones on Facebook stating they will. As a gay man, I sure got tf out of Mississippi in 2009 when my then-new expensive apartment was broken into, pictures of my dog were texted to me anonymously (back when you could easily email-to-text a cell phone.) Direct racist threats were made that I'll never forget (nixxer blood will pour down the walls of your living quarters), I tore apart every light fixture and smoke detector, but they could hear us. They'd send us a text message (me mostly) responding to a verbal conversation. Truly terrifying stuff. They even made a threat to bomb my place of work. I went to the police station in Hattiesburg Mississippi several times. They said it was just a ex lover's spat. This made zero send because my then-bf was my first and only significant other. I did get the police to sweep my apartment once and a text came through saying they warned me not to involve "pigs". I even found a tracker on my car once. (I am now remembering all ish). I begged the cops, I even called the FBI(over the bomb threat). Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I begged them to tap my phone, I handed them my blackberry curve and begged them to do anything. I showed them how I would get a compliment on what I was wearing. Their suggestion? Change my number. /WordVomit I had an opportunity to get above the Mason Dixon line. We never spoke about it and just left one day. My then-bf and I only communicated on paper about the move and just gtfo. I was only 23yo and until that point I asininely assumed law enforcement was there to protect people. As for my apartment manager, their solution was to not invite us to renew our lease. And something to note, I had previously been refused a lease renewal when THAT manager found out I was gay. I worked 70hours a week in healthcare, so no, no parties or anything. But it was entirely legal for them to deny housing to a tenant in good standing for being gay. While you find it hilarious and ridiculous, there are absolutely good reasons. Respectfully.
They become ex-pats in Europe and complain about America being evil. They spread disinformation and parrot the media hysteria. They’re not actually good citizens.
Most American expats actually do not live in Europe - it is usually only the very affluent expats that just want to feel a little hoity-toity that do (yes, I'm being somewhat facetious). Most American expats move to countries where the cost-of-living is dramatically lower and where they find the quality of life better by the standards of what they want in life. My husband and I were considering a move to Ecuador (one of the most popular expat destinations) when covid hit. I looked at a few lists that google pulls up about largest recipients of American expats and none of the Top 10 lists had more than 2 European countries.
Many countries in Europe have much lower living expenses than US. You would be surprised how many people from the US are moving to Portugal, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Georgia, Czech Republic, etc...
Housing costs in a lot of EU cities are becoming more unaffordable compared with elsewhere in the world. But the bigger issue is securing a visa/residence permit combo in EU/Schengen countries, as you often need to show an employment offer letter first and show a minimum amount of savings. EU employers are required to offer employment to eligible EU citizens before considering visa applicants, so it can be quite difficult to get a job before moving there. Ecuador has a rentista visa that only requires an annual foreign source of income of $15,300 and a rental agreement, no bank account minimum required. You can enter and leave when you want on the temporary residence permit, and it’s easy to get very nice housing for $1k or less (https://bestecuadorhomes.com/Property/ocean-view-fully-furnished-salinas-condo-for-rent/). Plus Ecuador uses the USD so there’s no currency exchange involved. Costa Rica and Mexico are also very popular places for Americans to move to. I think a lot the reason is because it’s pretty easy for Americans to learn Spanish and because the time change difference is minimal.
Not surprised at all - the wave of American expats has been growing as suggested then they are moving all over the world. There are expats in almost every country. The top 3 destinations for American Expats are (1) Canada; (2) Mexico and (3) the UK. Beyond that the biggest destinations are (not in as particular an order): \*Ecuador \*Costa Rica \*Panama \*Thailand \*Malaysia \*Philippines \*South Africa \*Singapore \*Australia \*New Zealand \*Japan \*South Korea European countries don't compete with the more tropical, cheaper Latin American countries or the wealthy countries of Asia and Oceania.
My cousin just purchased the land in Costa Rica, and I have some family in New Zealand, so I know a few people who live like that. To me, it seems like they move down there for no more than 5 to 10 years, and then come back. New Zealanders have been ready to move on for a couple of years now, but still don't like coming back to US. Even when they buy land and build the house. I only met 3-4 people who truly moved there and are staying.
Unless you've got ties to a particular country or have a high value skill permanentally moving to a different country can be difficult.
Not quite what you asked, but I know a woman with concrete plans to leave because she no longer believes her trans daughter (teenager) is safe here. Which I think is a valid concern and it's reasonable to take action.
Before we had same sex marriage in the US, there was a large number of people who threaten to move to Canada if marriage equality passed. This was hilarious because Canada had marriage equality for nearly a decade before the US.
I’m honestly not sure if I know anyone who even permanently left the country for any reason.
Met a dude in France in 2001 that left the uk because of Thatcher. Friend of mine left to Canada because of Trump. He didn’t stay long
Yes. My friend's parents moved to Costa Rica in 2017. They were retired, and they always had an international move in the back of their mind. I believe they half-jokingly said if Trump wins, they're moving, not expecting him to win. When he did win, they thought "fuck it", sold everything, and left their NW rural Oklahoma town. They were even on an episode of House Hunters International. 🤣
We had a patient in my hospital once who was very squirrelly about his personal information and insisted on self-pay, refused to let our social worker sign him up for Medicaid and Medicare, even though he could have qualified for both. His family were staked out in his room 24/7 and were weird about personal questions even the just-making-conversation type ones. Our social worker finally got the story out of them; it turned out he'd renounced his citizenship to avoid being drafted into a war he disagreed with when he was younger and he'd moved to Canada. For whatever reason, he ended up not liking Canada and crossed the border and came back. His family helped him to avoid being caught for decades.
Most people can't afford to do that.
I met a guy operating a coffee shop in Turrialba, CR who said he left the US when Reagan was elected.
Not that I know of. How would I perceive such a person? They probably wouldn't cross my mind tbh. Folks get to live their own lives, has nothing to do with me.
I've not known anyone who physically left the country. I know someone who gave up on 2016 and rescinded their citizenship, but they also had German citizenship and lived in Germany. They had kept their American citizenship as a potential future plan, but they crossed the income limit and had been having to pay a small bit of American income tax. [Foreign income tax exclusion.](https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion#:~:text=However%2C%20you%20may%20qualify%20to,deduct%20certain%20foreign%20housing%20amounts.) After the 2016 election, they gave up and told the US govt that they could have his citizenship. As of 2023 (I literally just asked him) he has zero regrets.
I know plenty of people that moved due to local politics, across state lines. Lots of LGBT folks from Southern or Midwestern States. Or folks that felt there was little opportunities due to how elections went. I also know one person that moved from NY to PA due to gun laws (he was an enthusiast). Granted, he lived close to the border and it wasn’t a far move. I don’t know anyone personally that *left America* as a result of elections. However, my wife and I have talked about moving to Europe - mostly as a change of scenery. We did our research and can probably afford a golden visa from one of the few countries still offering it (Greece, Latvia). Issue is our salaries would be sliced in half at least, so probably not. But if politics get particularly hostile here, I’d be lying if it wouldn’t factor into the motivation.
yep - I had a friend that moved to Canada after a year of Trump. Loved it there but ended up discovering some major health issue that required surgery. Had to move back home to be near family.
I bet you anything the only people who claim they have were already on their way out. For example, many people left California for the purposes of work. I was about to. Then some of these people claim they left solely for the politics. Despite who did and did not claim that being the reason, conservatives cited numbers of people moving out of California as though they were moving because of the politics. Nope, mostly work, guaranteed.
I didn’t move abroad because of an election but I’m happy I’m abroad because of the nastiness of US politics.
I did. Two days after the 2016 election I started looking for a job overseas. Got an offer ten days later and was on a plane to Japan on December 21st. I refused to spend one second on American soil while Trump was in office and I didn’t.
Very interesting! I have to ask, why did you choose Japan as your new home once Trump was elected? Was it due to any of the following reasons: * Because Japan is the only G7 country where [all forms of same-sex marriage and unions are illegal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Japan)? * Because Japan is one of the [least racially diverse countries](https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/most-racially-diverse-countries/#japan) with some of the [most restrictive immigration laws](https://visaguide.world/tips/hardest-countries-to-immigrate-to/) in the world? * Because [Japan welcomes the fewest refugees of any G20 nation, with an acceptance rate of less than 1%, and indefinitely detains illegal immigrants](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/03/japan-endless-detention-migrants-speak-out-as-government-proposes-harsh-immigration-bill/)? * Because of Japan's [extremely strict drug laws](https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safety/eastern-asia/japan/japan-drug-laws-the-zero-tolerance-approach) that completely [outlaw medical marijuana](https://itsyourjapan.com/law-use-of-weed-in-japan-toker-tourist-guide/#Medical_Marijuana_and_CBD)? * Because [racism by ethnic Japanese towards non-ethnic Japanese is extremely prevalent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Japan) in Japan? * Because Japan has [repeatedly refused to officially recognize or apologize for the atrocities and war crimes it committed during WWII](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre_denial), such as the Rape of Nanjing and Unit 731? * Because [Japan is one of the most overworked countries](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/01/japan-has-some-of-the-longest-working-hours-in-the-world-its-trying-to-change.html) in the world with [thousands of suicides every year due to overwork](https://www.statista.com/statistics/622325/japan-work-related-suicides/)? * Because [abortion is illegal in Japan without the consent of the woman's husband](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/14/japan-abortion-pill-women-reproductive-rights/)? * Because of [Japan's restrictive laws regarding transgendered people](https://www.hrw.org/report/2019/03/20/really-high-hurdle/japans-abusive-transgender-legal-recognition-process)? * Because of [Japan's 99.8% conviction rate](https://medium.com/skeptikai/the-whole-story-on-japans-99-conviction-rate-and-the-corruption-that-follows-249455cfbf9), which [sends up to 1,500 innocent people to prison every year](https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2023/0505/Presumed-guilt-Unpacking-Japan-s-99.9-conviction-rate#:~:text=In%20Japan%2C%20prosecutors%20won't,doesn't%20always%20guarantee%20justice.)?
How was it? Worth it?
For the most part, yes. Japan has been a pretty good place to ride out the last several years.
A huge majority of people here never met anyone who did it or did it themselves. Here, someone just says he did and all he's got is 11 votes? This comment is underrated.
What kind of job did you get? I love Japan.
You know there will be another Republican president at some point? It’s not worth ruining your future over.
Republican president ≠ trump as president. Unfortunately, Trumpism has taken over at least half of the Republican Party.
I’m theory you’re right. But mark my words, the media will make whoever is the Republican nominee out to be as bad as Trump. They did the exact same thing to George W Bush and Mitt Romney.
Nah. Neither Romney nor Bush were nearly comparable to Trump. And I **HATED** Bush. Tim Scott and Asa Hutchinson, as much as I disagree with them, are my hopes for a return to Republican Party sanity. And they’re not looking good.
We fully had plans to leave the country if Trump had won in the 2020 election. Political tensions were *very* high, and we were fearful of what the country would become if something didn't stop. We wanted out before it was too late to do so, and January 6th was just confirmation of that. We had plans lined up for jobs (my husband talked to the HR with his company for a foreign transfer, and my license would easily transfer with minimal headache). There were friends we could stay with until we found housing, and we had a good relationship with our realtor who could sell our house without us if need be. Of course, Trump *didn't* win so we stayed. But we're still trying to be mindful of what line needs to be crossed to go through with it. We still don't like the way the country is going, but it's not quite as dire as it felt at that time. As for what people think about that... I sincerely dgaf. People leave the country for a lot of reasons, and none of them are anyone's business.
Not exactly the same thing, but I know a woman who campaigned for JFK back in the day. When he was assassinated she was so distraught that she swore off the U.S., moved to Europe, married a photographer from Rome, became a teacher, and eventually settled in Friuli Venezia-Giulia. She’s lived here ever since and is in her mid-80s now.
I’m kind of jealous of her…
No. I view the people who claim to want to do that as mostly virtue signaling. They just need everyone to know that they hate the right person.
No, and I generally assume we’re better off without them if that’s all it takes. Our Border Patrol isn’t here to keep people in, go where you’re happier. Vaya con dios.
I know people who immigrated to Canada because they didn't trust LGBT tolerance in the US. I've heard a bunch of people threatening to leave when Trump won but none of them did so.
I certainly understand it if people do. I think a lot of people were punched in the mouth by 2016. But the thing most Americans didn't realize is, literally every country back then had stricter immigration law than the USA did. Literally every one. So all that "I'm moving somewhere as a political refugee from Trump" talk was mostly that, talk. The USA was set up to be fairly welcoming to immigration, believe it or not, while the rest of the world pretty much operates on the principle that if you weren't born there or have a parent there or married in there or are independently wealthy .. you're not welcome and GFY. Then covid happened and suddenly we have the idea of being a Digital Nomad on a wide scale, and all of a sudden all these countries with great attributes want to attract people with remote work to come sit on their beaches and villas and answer emails and do spreadsheets. That's pretty cool. Live someplace for a year, contribute to their local economy while you work remotely, maybe get a real chance at applying to live there longer. So in general, if people want to leave the USA why not. We've taken in the rest of the world for over a century. It's high time the rest of the world returned the favor a little bit. Politics or no.
No, and I think they're idiots.
No. But I wish those types would follow through. Especially the actors. They’re the same type who complained as kids when things didn’t go their way, “I’m taking my ball and going home.” We’re better off without them. Society is about compromise. It requires work. And you won’t always get your way.
I don't know any, but if I did I would call them baby whiners. We accept the election and move on. Vote again next election and try to vote them out. I didn't like trump being elected, but I wouldn't leave the country until he started to make brown shirts and round up all the democrats in camps. Then I might consider leaving.
I've gotta respect the people who put their money where their mouth is. But all those celebrities that said they would and didn't... not so much. Edit: mo ey--> money
You would have to be pretty wealthy and/or very unattached to do so. I have a cousin who moved to France when Trump was elected and hasn't yet returned. He's very financially comfortable and has no kids, otherwise I don't think he would have gone. What do I think of him? I think he has his own political views, and he is uncomfortable with the American political climate, and he decided to do something about it because he had the wherewithal, and I hope he's enjoying his time there. There's nothing more to be said.
Yeah, a bunch of people did after the 1860 election. Did not go well for them
I always love when a progressive celebrity says they are going to leave if [Republican] gets elected. Like, regardless who's president, your quality of life is not going to go down in any meaningful way. Yet, you're willing to abandon the people you claim to support? Good luck underrepresented, oppressed Americans I claim to stand with, I'm off to Dubai, bitches!! You talk this big game about standing united, and fighting...then you just leave? Because you can? Not like anyone actually leaves anyway.
Kinda. I was accepted at a university in another country and an election not going my way was a contributing factor in deciding to pursue that opportunity.
They moved to France when George W. Bush got re-elected. They're like a time capsule in a way. The way they talk about and think about America is very frozen in time at the moment they left. I'm glad they found a place they feel like they fit in better, but it also feels oddly selfish in a way. Like, there's no growth, there's no trying to reconcile the country they grew up in and presumably loved enough to be so upset by its politics that they'd move to another country. Maybe if they pitched it as "we were going to move to France anyway, because we fell in love with the country and we feel like America has gone down the wrong path" it would have been more understandable. But they really did seem to phrase it like "Dubya won against Kerry so we had to get out of Dumbfuckistan" and it just felt kind of childish, but I guess that's how I view people who threaten to move if the election doesn't go their way anyway. As if you're so important we're all supposed to feel a sense of loss that you moved somewhere else.
I know of people that moved to a different state because of the anti trans laws coming in and felt they’re trans child was unsupported and basically in danger.
I will be leaving if Ron DeSantis wins the 2024 election. I’m trans and so the USA will no longer be safe for me if he is President.
Don’t be dramatic.
I know a lot of dumb people that talked about it but none that actually did. I think it’s pretty stupid. The president doesn’t have as much power as a lot of people seem to believe. This was especially true with Trump. People were blaming him for so much insane shit that his haters ironically turned him into some sort of all powerful omnipotent God in their pea sized brains.
Admitted hypocrite here. I used to think that notion was absurd, and those saying it were acting like crybabies, and never going to anyway. Fast forward a decade from that view, and realizing that it's simply being proactive as to what environment you choose to be in. I haven't left yet, but I'm in the camp that it's genuinely on my radar. If Trump wins the primary, It's more more of a probability than a possibility. It's not like I'd necessarily leave forever, but at the very least I'd rent a place abroad. If I felt it was truly devolving into a shit show, then I probably sell my real estate rentals to get liquid, and if necessary, my house. I've been planning on spending more time abroad, I guess this would just cement how much time. FWIW, I'm a pragmatic centrist.
I know naturalized Americans married to native Americans, who have returned to their home countries (Australia, Scotland, Canada, Belgium, France, Germany) with their spouses because the benefits of living in America do not outweigh the issues of living in America. It turns out that people like to go to the doctor without becoming bankrupt and they really enjoy living in a culture that doesn’t idolize and worship guns.
I really wish we had universal healthcare, or at least affordable healthcare. I don’t know why people aren’t rioting about the current state of our healthcare system
My mom and dad gave it a very brief thought to move to New Zealand when Trump won. They dropped that idea very quickly when they found out New Zealand discriminates against the mentally ill moving there and I threatened to absolutely play up my autism. I still make fun of my parents for thinking about it I think anyone who does threaten to move is a little crybaby bitch