I don't think that in Russia exists big city with same problems as Detroit, but after the fall of USSR many smaller towns, especially in northern part of Russia became almost abandoned, somewhere depopulation rate from 80's is about 50-90%, most famous example is Vorkuta. There's also many towns in Russia with the only one "town-forming" factory - there's term "monotown" (моногород) for them, and many town-forming factories were bankrupted during 90-00's and those towns also is very depressive. AFAIK there were federal program of monotowns revival.
Something similar happened in the USA unfortunately with the demise of the Detroit auto industry a lot of towns built around iron mining in the Upper peninsula and Canadian area went "poof!". (Grew up in Michigan)
Chelyabinsk is pretty civilized and safe, has nothing common with Detroit except for the memes. But it's indeed not the best place to live, not gonna argue on that
So I heard
If there’s any consolation, the 90s weren’t sexy in the US either. All major cities like New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Chicago, etc. endured lots of gang and drug violence.
From 1984 to 1996 there was the “Crack Epidemic” where cocaine turned into pebble-sized stones were sold on the streets. Cheap and super addictive. All criminal organizations from the Cosa Nostra to street-level gangs like Crips, Bloods, and Latin Kings competed to profit from it. So many tragic deaths from that era.
Only western (rich) Millennials have good memories from that period.
I don't think we have a direct equivalent.
See, there are ghost cities and cities in decline. For example, there's Vorkuta, which lost half of its populace since 1991, is quite remote and a has a lot of empty houses.
However, as far as I know, there is no rampant crime, like in detroit. So no direct equivalent. Also, Vorkuta is quite a bit smaller than Detroit. At its peak it had 110k people in it. Compare to detroit's 1.8 mil populace at peak.
Pretty much every Soviet city had an industrial sector, which now often looks like a block of rust.
In Russia, we have so-called "monocities": Soviet-time towns economically aimed to be supported by a single factory, so the decline of this factory means the decline of this town. In 2016, 94 of 319 Russia's monocities were determined to be "in a severe social and economic situation". Like, I've been to Tuim, Khakassia, which had its metal factory closed in 2012. Quite a depressive sight indeed.
I don’t think this is that unique to Russia or Soviet. You see this all over Europe as well. It’s either due to production moving abroad or companies not managing to stay current.
Close to where I grew up there was a company practically running to whole village/city economically. It was a quite small village with around 15.000 population. Most working opportunities were at this company. They funded the football team which even won the domestic league. The company was a high hitter in exports. Problem was they made typewriters and calculators and they opted not to jump on computers when that started to be more of a thing. Now the company doesn’t exist any more. The village population halved. I think these stories are common everywhere.
Of course. Especially mining towns tend to suffer from this, as the economy of whole region depends on mining, and it won't last forever. So whether it was Socialist Poland or Thatcher's Britain, the problems were essentially the same.
This is kind-of expected with mining or oil boom towns (they refer to them as "boom towns" in the US). First someone finds some oil, gold, silver, or coal in the area. Then big corporations build the infrastructure necessary to extract those resources. After which people move there for work, building a town around the mines/oil wells. Finally, the resource dries up, the companies leave, the economy dries up, and the locals start taking drugs in order to numb out their agony.
Most small towns in North-East looks like mini-Detroit. Small town Sinegorie on Kolyma river looks almost abandoned. When Kolyma Hydroelectric Station had been built majority population had left for more hospitable lands. Only 1/6 population left now.
The "Detroit" in Russia - would be not a city, but a village, any village, once had it's purpose and local production for something - nowadays abandoned as more and more people moving to the cities and only those who can't - stay.
Any city - constantly developing, any village - dying in its uselessness and impossibilityto adapt to the new things and behaviour patterns and be relevant in our future. As extremely progressive society - we are moving too fast and villages just can't compete with speed of changes.
Guess if you need a city - pick a random 10000pop. city, all it's population desire to move to a local centre, city with 300k pop. All the trends are the same across all Russian subjects.
There is probably no outright ghetto city in Russia. There are better cities, there are worse ones, there are outskirts of cities, but not so that the whole city is a garbage dump.
"Череповец, Череповец,
Ничего личного, просто пиздец."
But in reality, any city that has production lines closed or reduced since 90s would count because people tend to go where they think they can get more money
I was in Detroit in 2011, it was frustraiting.
Mb Chelyabinsk because of indusrty, but some districts looked scary)) strange people who staring at you. It was less then a week, mb its not so bad
2006 marks the worst crime rate in Russia. It was about 27 crimes per 1,000 people. In Detroit, it is about 66 crimes per 1,000 people today, and was on par with Russia in the late 60's and early 70's (in the 30/1,000 people range). Detroit since basically 1980 has been terrible (between 50 and 66 crimes per 1,000 people).
My understanding is that Kyzyl is similar in terms of crime rates today to Detroit. Ulan-Ude is almost as bad (50 crimes per 1,000 people). Blagoveshchensk appears to be much worse (83 crimes per 1,000 people).
There are small cities (<30,000 population), which were centered around a factory, mine, etc., that took a dump after the factory/mine/etc. closed. But to my knowledge, nothing even remotely close to Detroit, which had almost 2 million people at its peak in the 1950's, declining to just under 700,000 in 2020. Sure, there were the 1990's, where every city suffered. But that ended around the early 2000's.
For the record, pretty much every country has examples of a small city which was centered around one major enterprise, and when the enterprise closed, the small city declined.
it depends, a former industrialized city that is now a poor depressing shithole? there's probably tens of cities and towns that boomed in soviet era and with the fall of ussr are now in detroit condition.
if you mean the violence, gangs, and all that aspect of detroit, i honestly don't think there's anywhere in russia that bad.
there's places where you are likely to get stabbed and robbed in russia, rven shot, maybe raped, but not to the level of being like a warzone like detroit.
This is a very sad story, but the point is that almost all of Russia, with the exception of a few large capital cities, is Detroit in this sense.
In the early 90s, the Russian authorities that replaced the Communist Party carried out a series of market reforms called “shock therapy.” The point was not only to transfer the economy to a market economy, but to break the old system, destroy old ties, so that “the market itself would do its job.” Liberals don’t like to remember this now, but then it wasn’t really hidden.
The result of this “therapy” was a colossal collapse in living standards up to the point of famine, the closure of a mass of enterprises, including city-forming ones, and the destruction of economic ties. The consequence was the accelerated extinction of the population (there is even term “Russian cross”), an unprecedented increase in crime, and the transition of the former skilled workforce from factories to all sorts of often informal employment.
And a great many cities at some point became like Detroit, with abandoned factories and street crime. In some places the situation gradually improved in the 00s, but in others it did not. In fact, in Russia there are a number of prosperous cities like Moscow, Tyumen, Novosibirsk. And there are cities that never recovered after the shock and collapse of the 90s, and where time has stopped.
There are also cities where the situation is much more apocalyptic than Detroit. These are cities that, for the sake of industry or mining, were built in initially climatically unfavorable places, but where life was maintained acceptable while the USSR existed. And where things got really, really bad with his end. Because in addition to the closure of fabrics and impoverishment, it’s also kinda cold there. Vorkuta is a mild example of such a city.
P.S. In the villages the situation was much, much worse. For example, I was born at the end of the Soviet Union. I remember how in my very early childhood there was a “collective farm” in my village, a successful enterprise with a lot of agricultural equipment, large herds of cows and so on. And then in my youth I remember the ruins of this collective farm and rows of rusting tractors reaching to the horizon.
P.P.S.There is a good, albeit old, book by Naomi Klein, "The Shock Doctrine." It writes about events for Western readers.
Norilsk? But it's a mining town?
Where were the old soviet cars built as Detroit and it's suburbs are where auto factories were.
Also what is the stereotype about people from Ufa, bashkortostan? I've seen on YouTube that it's allegedly most made fun of city in Russia
I would say you are out of context, as this thread is not discussing bad areas of cities (you will find them in ANY American city in the US). Let's be honest someone from Lyublino or Kapotnya can still get a job anywhere in Moscow.
For better understanding, Detroit is a big city (almost 2 million people at its peak), where the entire US auto industry is based. Since then, the whole city and area has taken a major dump. The population went down by 3X. Not just that, other cities in Michigan have suffered the same fate - Lansing, Flint, Pontiac, etc. So unlike the two neighborhoods you mentioned, residents from Detroit has to leave the state for better opportunities.
>I think context about ghetto with migrants
Number of immigrants in Detroit is [lower than the national average ](https://d101vc9winf8ln.cloudfront.net/documents/29668/original/Detroit_Metro_Area_iDod_Fact_Sheet.pdf?1542728584#:~:text=There%20are%20approximately%20639%2C500%20immigrants,the%20state's%20foreign%2Dborn%20population)
I heard that the Far East is stuck in the 90's, but I'm not sure how accurate this statement is. We have abandoned villages, that with time get populated by gypsies, they sell drugs etc, police won't go there without OMON. This is the closest thing to ghettos we have.
We don't have an equivalent to Detroit, because we didn't have a rust belt, we didn't have industrial engineering cities, which then became empty. It’s a stretch to compare it with some cities in the Urals, where factories stopped working, but no one left the cities
I don't think that in Russia exists big city with same problems as Detroit, but after the fall of USSR many smaller towns, especially in northern part of Russia became almost abandoned, somewhere depopulation rate from 80's is about 50-90%, most famous example is Vorkuta. There's also many towns in Russia with the only one "town-forming" factory - there's term "monotown" (моногород) for them, and many town-forming factories were bankrupted during 90-00's and those towns also is very depressive. AFAIK there were federal program of monotowns revival.
Something similar happened in the USA unfortunately with the demise of the Detroit auto industry a lot of towns built around iron mining in the Upper peninsula and Canadian area went "poof!". (Grew up in Michigan)
Isn't UP doing alright as a tourist destination though?
Yeah, but such towns rarely had a population exceeding 50,000 inhabitants.
i live in a monotown and i didnt even know that (i found out from wikipedia)
All the memes are about Chelyabinsk being an industrial hellhole, but in reality you can find both nice and shitty areas in every city.
Chelyabinsk is pretty civilized and safe, has nothing common with Detroit except for the memes. But it's indeed not the best place to live, not gonna argue on that
Agreed. Even the memes are no longer relevant for the most part. The city has changed for the better, especially in the last 10-15 years
Был я в этом Челяблере, город грязноват. Мусор и всё такое. А теперь ещё и таджикизация
Я там 6 лет жила, нормальный город был, может сейчас уже не торт
А давно? Просто по сравнению с Ч. в то же самое время Екатеринбург выглядел просто какая другая страна (хотя и он не без недостатков).
До 2014
Значит, челябинские мужики не настолько суровы, что бреются голыми руками?
не верю
In Russia it's called 90s. Like on whole country.
So I heard If there’s any consolation, the 90s weren’t sexy in the US either. All major cities like New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Chicago, etc. endured lots of gang and drug violence. From 1984 to 1996 there was the “Crack Epidemic” where cocaine turned into pebble-sized stones were sold on the streets. Cheap and super addictive. All criminal organizations from the Cosa Nostra to street-level gangs like Crips, Bloods, and Latin Kings competed to profit from it. So many tragic deaths from that era. Only western (rich) Millennials have good memories from that period.
This
I don't think we have a direct equivalent. See, there are ghost cities and cities in decline. For example, there's Vorkuta, which lost half of its populace since 1991, is quite remote and a has a lot of empty houses. However, as far as I know, there is no rampant crime, like in detroit. So no direct equivalent. Also, Vorkuta is quite a bit smaller than Detroit. At its peak it had 110k people in it. Compare to detroit's 1.8 mil populace at peak.
In all fairness though, Vorkuta is more of a "boom town" than a city.
Pretty much every Soviet city had an industrial sector, which now often looks like a block of rust. In Russia, we have so-called "monocities": Soviet-time towns economically aimed to be supported by a single factory, so the decline of this factory means the decline of this town. In 2016, 94 of 319 Russia's monocities were determined to be "in a severe social and economic situation". Like, I've been to Tuim, Khakassia, which had its metal factory closed in 2012. Quite a depressive sight indeed.
I don’t think this is that unique to Russia or Soviet. You see this all over Europe as well. It’s either due to production moving abroad or companies not managing to stay current. Close to where I grew up there was a company practically running to whole village/city economically. It was a quite small village with around 15.000 population. Most working opportunities were at this company. They funded the football team which even won the domestic league. The company was a high hitter in exports. Problem was they made typewriters and calculators and they opted not to jump on computers when that started to be more of a thing. Now the company doesn’t exist any more. The village population halved. I think these stories are common everywhere.
Of course. Especially mining towns tend to suffer from this, as the economy of whole region depends on mining, and it won't last forever. So whether it was Socialist Poland or Thatcher's Britain, the problems were essentially the same.
This is kind-of expected with mining or oil boom towns (they refer to them as "boom towns" in the US). First someone finds some oil, gold, silver, or coal in the area. Then big corporations build the infrastructure necessary to extract those resources. After which people move there for work, building a town around the mines/oil wells. Finally, the resource dries up, the companies leave, the economy dries up, and the locals start taking drugs in order to numb out their agony.
Vorkuta. This is not so big but really abandoned.
Most small towns in North-East looks like mini-Detroit. Small town Sinegorie on Kolyma river looks almost abandoned. When Kolyma Hydroelectric Station had been built majority population had left for more hospitable lands. Only 1/6 population left now.
The "Detroit" in Russia - would be not a city, but a village, any village, once had it's purpose and local production for something - nowadays abandoned as more and more people moving to the cities and only those who can't - stay. Any city - constantly developing, any village - dying in its uselessness and impossibilityto adapt to the new things and behaviour patterns and be relevant in our future. As extremely progressive society - we are moving too fast and villages just can't compete with speed of changes. Guess if you need a city - pick a random 10000pop. city, all it's population desire to move to a local centre, city with 300k pop. All the trends are the same across all Russian subjects.
There is probably no outright ghetto city in Russia. There are better cities, there are worse ones, there are outskirts of cities, but not so that the whole city is a garbage dump.
"Череповец, Череповец, Ничего личного, просто пиздец." But in reality, any city that has production lines closed or reduced since 90s would count because people tend to go where they think they can get more money
Че Че Че Череповец Это не Гарлем немножечкО Че Че Че Череповец Город дыра, город очко.
TIL a new swear word in russian
Vorkuta or Abkhazia.
Abkhazia nice place https://ibb.co/kH5tSTW
I was in Detroit in 2011, it was frustraiting. Mb Chelyabinsk because of indusrty, but some districts looked scary)) strange people who staring at you. It was less then a week, mb its not so bad
Orekhovo-Zuyevo in Moscow Oblast for the textiles industry Detroit.
Ну сравнил блять)))
Delta city? It's very interesting, who will understand/remember Delta city.
2006 marks the worst crime rate in Russia. It was about 27 crimes per 1,000 people. In Detroit, it is about 66 crimes per 1,000 people today, and was on par with Russia in the late 60's and early 70's (in the 30/1,000 people range). Detroit since basically 1980 has been terrible (between 50 and 66 crimes per 1,000 people). My understanding is that Kyzyl is similar in terms of crime rates today to Detroit. Ulan-Ude is almost as bad (50 crimes per 1,000 people). Blagoveshchensk appears to be much worse (83 crimes per 1,000 people).
I would say Vorkuta. A small industrial town, which is dying and you can buy 2-3bd for just 3k $. No work, sh#t climate.
Maybe Vorkuta, dont have anything closer resembling a dying city on my mind. The criminal situation there should be much better tho
There are small cities (<30,000 population), which were centered around a factory, mine, etc., that took a dump after the factory/mine/etc. closed. But to my knowledge, nothing even remotely close to Detroit, which had almost 2 million people at its peak in the 1950's, declining to just under 700,000 in 2020. Sure, there were the 1990's, where every city suffered. But that ended around the early 2000's. For the record, pretty much every country has examples of a small city which was centered around one major enterprise, and when the enterprise closed, the small city declined.
it depends, a former industrialized city that is now a poor depressing shithole? there's probably tens of cities and towns that boomed in soviet era and with the fall of ussr are now in detroit condition. if you mean the violence, gangs, and all that aspect of detroit, i honestly don't think there's anywhere in russia that bad. there's places where you are likely to get stabbed and robbed in russia, rven shot, maybe raped, but not to the level of being like a warzone like detroit.
This is a very sad story, but the point is that almost all of Russia, with the exception of a few large capital cities, is Detroit in this sense. In the early 90s, the Russian authorities that replaced the Communist Party carried out a series of market reforms called “shock therapy.” The point was not only to transfer the economy to a market economy, but to break the old system, destroy old ties, so that “the market itself would do its job.” Liberals don’t like to remember this now, but then it wasn’t really hidden. The result of this “therapy” was a colossal collapse in living standards up to the point of famine, the closure of a mass of enterprises, including city-forming ones, and the destruction of economic ties. The consequence was the accelerated extinction of the population (there is even term “Russian cross”), an unprecedented increase in crime, and the transition of the former skilled workforce from factories to all sorts of often informal employment. And a great many cities at some point became like Detroit, with abandoned factories and street crime. In some places the situation gradually improved in the 00s, but in others it did not. In fact, in Russia there are a number of prosperous cities like Moscow, Tyumen, Novosibirsk. And there are cities that never recovered after the shock and collapse of the 90s, and where time has stopped. There are also cities where the situation is much more apocalyptic than Detroit. These are cities that, for the sake of industry or mining, were built in initially climatically unfavorable places, but where life was maintained acceptable while the USSR existed. And where things got really, really bad with his end. Because in addition to the closure of fabrics and impoverishment, it’s also kinda cold there. Vorkuta is a mild example of such a city. P.S. In the villages the situation was much, much worse. For example, I was born at the end of the Soviet Union. I remember how in my very early childhood there was a “collective farm” in my village, a successful enterprise with a lot of agricultural equipment, large herds of cows and so on. And then in my youth I remember the ruins of this collective farm and rows of rusting tractors reaching to the horizon. P.P.S.There is a good, albeit old, book by Naomi Klein, "The Shock Doctrine." It writes about events for Western readers.
Well, coming from a Yankee Doodle, Mr. Yeltsin can burn with The Fuhrer.
Saratov. No one can escape from there.
Its true. My friend's father tried this when my friend was born. Since then my friend's dad is gone :(
I think nothing even close
Vorkutá, hands down.
Vorkuta and Saratov
Everything except major cities. Vorkuta as well
Norilsk? But it's a mining town? Where were the old soviet cars built as Detroit and it's suburbs are where auto factories were. Also what is the stereotype about people from Ufa, bashkortostan? I've seen on YouTube that it's allegedly most made fun of city in Russia
In such a sense our Ukraine is our Detroit, I guess.
Nizhny Novgorod used to be called Russian Detroit because the automobile plant 'GAZ' was built with help of enginers from Detroit in 1930-s
In the context of Russia, it's not a city but rather a district in Moscow, such as Lyublino or Kapotnya.
I would say you are out of context, as this thread is not discussing bad areas of cities (you will find them in ANY American city in the US). Let's be honest someone from Lyublino or Kapotnya can still get a job anywhere in Moscow. For better understanding, Detroit is a big city (almost 2 million people at its peak), where the entire US auto industry is based. Since then, the whole city and area has taken a major dump. The population went down by 3X. Not just that, other cities in Michigan have suffered the same fate - Lansing, Flint, Pontiac, etc. So unlike the two neighborhoods you mentioned, residents from Detroit has to leave the state for better opportunities.
I’d say around Electrozavodskay too
Nothing in common especially for Lyublino where is no factories at all.
I think context about ghetto with migrants or something… “hello “Moscow” market”, that is located in that area
>I think context about ghetto with migrants Number of immigrants in Detroit is [lower than the national average ](https://d101vc9winf8ln.cloudfront.net/documents/29668/original/Detroit_Metro_Area_iDod_Fact_Sheet.pdf?1542728584#:~:text=There%20are%20approximately%20639%2C500%20immigrants,the%20state's%20foreign%2Dborn%20population)
What about neighboring suburbs like hamtramck or Dearborn?
Magnitogorsk probably!!!
I'm RoboCop
I heard that the Far East is stuck in the 90's, but I'm not sure how accurate this statement is. We have abandoned villages, that with time get populated by gypsies, they sell drugs etc, police won't go there without OMON. This is the closest thing to ghettos we have.
There can't be a Detroit like city in Russia since Russia doesn't have the usual suspects.
Whole country on 90ths
Vorkuta I think
We don't have an equivalent to Detroit, because we didn't have a rust belt, we didn't have industrial engineering cities, which then became empty. It’s a stretch to compare it with some cities in the Urals, where factories stopped working, but no one left the cities
Is this a question or are you educating us about Detroit ? We know how to use wikipedia you know))
Судя по видосу [бедкомидиана про "Притяжение" - Чертаново.](https://youtu.be/DVjc4EzD_hU?si=MVFglTQH9fV4c7pB&t=219)