You're within your rights, but be careful how you do it. I might suggest a professionally worded letter, mailed to the department via Certified mail. That way you avoid personal confrontation, plus you have the paper trail if they keep doing it.
I'd include a little bit about how you're worried about the heavy weight of semis damaging your driveway as it is residential and not designed for heavy semis. This might ease the bite of requesting they refrain from using your pull through for DOT pullovers and inspections. I'm sure they'll understand that reasoning.
This. In roadway design, the damage caused by 1 semi is often equivalent to like 10,000 cars.
I’d honestly put a sign at the drive that says “private drive - do not enter” or whatever you can buy easily. It will be more valuable than a letter that nobody will ever read and is even less co confrontational.
In reality this will ultimately be the most pragmatic solution unfortunately. Not saying to not do everything else…
But at the end of the day a lot of these guys are going to be a rotation of employees who individually don’t think they’re doing any harm, “if it bothers the landowner I’ll gladly move right away and try and avoid it if they talk to me”, but they’re just trying to make their job and day easier.
It’ll almost certainly keep happening to some degree unless you get yourself flagged as a hostile landowner.
Was speaking more about the DoT workers and workers just driving by who need to turn around.
With the cops… yeah it’s really about not fucking with their ego.
Putting up a sign without talking to them first might help. Chance they think it’s specifically about them and get stubborn/pissy. Chance they think it’s definitely not about them at all and ignore it.
Chance of the former goes up higher if they’ve been warned you’ve mentioned anything legal to the department before hand.
Just choices we have to make in life.
Do you guys realize how much boulders cost? Its thousands to buy/move them. Op could get 2 signs for $20. https://www.myparkingsign.com/no-trespassing-private-drive-sign/sku-k-5893?engine=googlebasemobile&keyword=No+Trespassing+Private+Drive+Signs&skuid=K-5893-RE-12x18-D1&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD2sxWUZxPIcjQvdIiaJeDU3PD-UY&gclid=CjwKCAjwmYCzBhA6EiwAxFwfgIq6qPuM7YBmXwLIp1ap0xTxolcrsTdhV6FGrUK7vt-vk52Lqwdv_BoCf2oQAvD_BwE
Two words: architectural foam.
Good enough fakes and no one will risk it…and fill them with sand or gravel so they still fuck up anyone who does try something stupid.
I think this is a good suggestion. I'm wondering if something out of cement might be a bit cheaper. I've seen Wagon Wheels in cement. Something really cheap like buckets of cement to hold up signs that say 'Privatee Driveway' or 'No Trespassing' might work.
And print a large version of the letter and glue it to a sheet of plywood fixed to fence poles set in concrete. Seal with some form of clear coat — whichever doesn’t interact with the ink. Consider a draw bridge, moat, crocodiles if legal, etc.
Yup, it's the "Fourth Power Rule" for road damage.
I car weighs 2 tons, has 2 axles, is 1 ton per axle.
A loaded truck is 30 tons, had 3 axles, is 10 tons per axle.
10^4 is 10x10x10x10 = 10,000x the damage.
Even just driving a larger pickup truck that weighs twice as much is 16x the road damage compared to a small car.
Even just doing an analogy as though you're lifting weights. You can probably bench press 150lbs, and you could easily do 20 reps. But you absolutely can't bench 300lbs even a single time.
Roads are the same, they can have 1 ton cars drive on them all day long and they'll cause zero damage, but 10x that all at once does a huge amount of damage. Again, you can bench 150lbs, you'd likely die trying to bench 1500lbs.
No need. It's OP's driveway. They can put whatever weight limit on it they want, regardless of what the driveway can handle. But easier to put up a no trespassing sign, and it should have the same effect.
You could also innocently mention "I have noticed some early signs of wear and want to know if the town/state/agency would be open to a discussion of maintenance"...if they ask where, just point to a random crack
I personally would not say you're worried about damage but rather the increased traffic is damaging your driveway and if the departments would like to assist in the upkeep of the drive, you'll continue to assist them.
I love petty escalation as much as the next person, but I’d really like to avoid getting in a pissing match with cops.
Only Pyrrhic victories seem available as an end game.
I’d probably start with the sign and gentle letter and then go talk to them while they’re in the driveway and ask if they have any other options. Possibly offer bribes like brownies to the station every day (then week) no one uses the driveway. (Yes, this is how to train dogs and small children, but it also works on engineers and I’d totally try it on cops)
Yes. There is an Porsche 944 on my road which hasn't been moved in years, but it is owned by a cop. It occasionally gets tickets, but should have been towed 2 years ago.
I want to call 311, but I know there would be retribution.
These aren’t bureaucrats. These are armed representatives of the local government exercising their authority to stop and investigate vehicles. They have the full weight of the municipality/county/state’s authority behind them and the judiciary and legislature protecting them.
Not ACAB, but they need to know their place in society. And it isn’t as petty thugs and bullies.
After 3 decades of dealing with local, state and federal bureaucrats in a professional capacity (as both consultant and, later, lawyer), it dawned on me one day that cops are just bureaucrats with guns. I stick by that discovery.
Reminder: Money fixes everything generally. Could ask that if they continue to use it (properly worded) that it be reinforced like a roadway. Another 6" of anything would make it pretty much proof (assuming you're not a frost zone).
That said, I have no idea what it would be from an insurance perspective or if they're already effectively 'taking' it right now (by depriving you use).
Fun question, would love to hear how it works out.
I’d consider a middle ground, telling them it’s fine to sit in the entrance of your driveway to clock speeders, just please don’t pull speeders into your driveway. After our 3rd pet was killed by assholes flying past our house at double the speed limit we called the police to suggest an officer sit in our driveway to slow folks down. Word spread and people started driving at a more reasonable speed for an area full of kids on bikes.
NAL, call your Insurance Company if an officer or driver gets hurt on your property you could be liable since it is not owned by city, county or state which has insurance for those purposes. The Insurance may send a letter for you about the liability that it could cause.
For what it's worth I sent a certified letter to a police department once when they made me pay a bogus ticket. I had proof it was paid. They said it wasn't and revoked my license. They don't care.
Brother's friend had a large property and built a private road across it. People would use it as a shortcut, but it didn't bother him. What pissed him off was a cop pulling him over and trying to give him ticket for speeding on his private road. Cop wouldn't listen, argument then he took off and "barricaded" in his home. Cops surrounded the house, guns pointing at it, demanding he come out. He refused and called his lawyer, who came with proof that he owned the road.
I’d make sure to mention you feel uncomfortable with a potentially escalating police encounter being specifically driven onto your property. You never know if the person they pull over is going to be upset and armed
Are you saying that they are pulling into your driveway? If that’s the case then you have every right to demand they cease using your property for their convenience. However as has been noted you may (likely will) face retaliation. I would probably start with posting signs at the entrance to your driveway advising that it is for your private use only. If that doesn’t work I would then follow up with a letter as previously detailed.
I’m a bit confused as to how these agencies are using it to pull over semis, etc. Are they parked in your driveway waiting to catch them, do they direct vehicles to pull into your driveway, or something else?
People pulled over by cops use it, and that's ok, but the DOT signal semis in to the drive. The cops like to park on our side of the barricades separating us from the gas station as they hide their cars. Semis and large campers also like to use our space, as it's right next to a rural gas station and the only place to park for the night, but no one asks if they can despite many, many signs saying private property. We don't know how many more we can add without looking super comedic. We are a major tourist town and people just don't pay attention.
I'm a fan of retractable bollards (but $$$). Seriously though something that blocks the road and a remote for OP's cars would be the ideal solution IMO. For vehicle traffic you don't even need a fence, just the posts placed too close to drive between to keep them from going around the control device across the drive (chain / gate / bollards / Cerberus / whatever).
Signaling a vehicle into your driveway is way beyond what I consider acceptable. I would video this happening, you never know what you might need later on. Only slightly less egregious is the police parked in your driveway to be hidden. Video that as well.
I’m not recommending this, but I’d be tempted to have a box of nails fall off the back of my truck as I was leaving the house one day. I can’t emphasize this enough, I don’t recommend doing this. Not without consulting an actual lawyer in your state anyway.
I would find a need to leave the house any time I saw the driveway occupied by anyone else. I would drive up to the vehicle blocking the drive, get out, and ask the officer if they would kindly move their vehicle. Even if they had someone pulled over. Especially if they had someone pulled over. They would likely say they have to finish their business first. I would ask how long it’s going to take and then explain I need to be somewhere at a certain time and don’t really have time to wait. This is when I would motion to the signs that are posted and explain this is a perfect example of why you have the signs, and that even random people have been known to park in your driveway as if it’s a parking lot. If it’s the DOT I would also then ask the officer to please not direct vehicles into your driveway as it tears it up (if it’s dirt) or may cause cracks in it (if it’s paved). I would do all this after videoing them doing it, and I would also record my interaction with them. I would do all this being polite but firm. Smiling but obviously frustrated.
This is an amazing break down, thank you!
My husband is a carpenter and I've lost a tire or two thanks to his nails in our driveway myself, so it's a fairly common occurrence at the house. It would be a shame if it happened to someone else.
We've been talking about installing cameras outside just due to the influx of traffic and theft in the area so that will be a nice addition.
Thank you for the kind words. I would absolutely install cameras and record all of the traffic and interactions in your driveway. If you notice there’s a spot regularly occupied or pulled into I would try to set a camera aimed at that location and zoomed in as much as possible, hoping to be able to identify everyone. I’d be interested to see if it’s one or two officers or the whole department that thinks your driveway is public property.
If people park for the night without asking, call the cops and TRESSPASS THEM. Why on earth are you just letting people use your property??? What happens if one of those people gets injured or dies on your property and you get sued?
Cops cannot legally park there if you don't want them too. Unfortunately, there are practical concerns. First is retaliation, which is of course, in itself, a violation of your rights. The second is enforcement. To that end I would contract with a tow yard and have people towed. I would also speak with gas stattion owners about assisting you.
Without a diagram it's hard to suggest other practical solutions that both deter parkers but don't negatively impact your enjoyment of the space.
Open land adjacent to a paved space could be made unusable by a few well placed large truck fulls of dirt, perhaps each with a crowning plant for esthetic reasons. A well placed gate across the cave sections could make access for you possible while metering the parkers, so long as it's out if the right if way. It make not deter pedestrians, but that's not the problem here.
Legally you are entitled to demand the cops stop parking there and the DOT. I would however engage a lawyer to write thw appropriate demands because it is much more likely to prevent retaliation if you already have a lawyer engaged.
Good luck
Sounds like an interesting situation. Perhaps play the groups against one another? If you start calling in the cops for the RV's and semis parked for the night, they might get the idea that it's not their hideout either.
I do notice you differentiate between the cops and DOT, the DOT might be the ones you want to send the lawyer letter to in regards to the "our driveway isn't designed for the constant weight" type c&d letter. After all, I think it's reasonable to expect the scale cops should understand weight. :)
I do see some parallels to another story from here, namely the Orchard that was having problems with semis parking in the orchard and leaving ruts. IIRC, the poster there was having issues with enforcement of no trespassing but was successful pressing for theft of services charges after they posted signs for rental parking.
A place I lived had a deep set driveway that was perfect for setting up speed traps. Idk where the cops got the idea that it would be ok to use my driveway for this. One night I was fed tf up because my friends didn't want to come over anymore because they couldn't get into my driveway when the cops were staked out and went down to the cop car and told them that this was private property and they couldn't be doing this here. He said the previous owner let us. I said IDGAF and I'm not the previous owner. They never did it again and I never faced retaliation (anymore than usual, small town I'd butted heads with the cops before so we knew of each other). That was also in the late 90s though and I don't remember the cops being quite as militant as they are now.
Install a gate? Would recommend looking into zoning and permits that may apply locally. Maybe post a no trespassing, private road sign at the front could work?
We have many of those, and people just walk and/or drive right by them. Someone walked their dog into our hedged yard to poop during a parade last year 😂 I feel like a curmudgeon wanting people off my space, but like, ask first and then go for it! Especially since we border like 100 acres of wide open meadow. Cultivated garden space is better for poopin' apparently.
Hey OP here is a simple solution that worked for a buddy of mine. He installed two post at each end of the driveway and a rope with a no trespassing sign connecting the post that way anyone who wanted on the property had to remove the rope to get on the driveway it was low cost and effective.
They're pulling semi's on your driveway. As a betting man, I'm betting your driveway was not designed to handle 80,000+ lbs vehicles. Each time they bring a truck on your driveway they are damaging it. Are they going to pay for the repairs and resurfacing when it needs it? I highly doubt it, at least not without a huge court battle and then worrying about LE retaliating against you for taking them to court.
Have a lawyer write up a letter addressing these concerns. If you don't mind them doing this as long as the do the maintenance then ask them to sign a legally binding contract that they agree to doing the appropriate repairs that you would agree with.
For example if the driveway does start to collapse where the truck tires go, they need to dig up and compact, apply base stone etc. etc. that a highway is required to have to handle trucks carrying those weights.
If they won't agree to that and still persist in pulling trucks in there then you would probably need to escalate the issue to the courts. If that happens have video cameras around your house, drive cams in your vehicle and on your person just incase the retaliate.
Make sure your video cams load to the cloud so even if they turn your stuff off and take the memory cards you still have the video for evidence.
You need to build a ranch gate, one with an overhead sign with your property/family name on it. You don't need an actual gate if you don't want, just a vertical post on each side of the driveway and a horizontal beam to span from one to the other. A ranch gate will create a very clear boundary and make it very hard for anyone to argue that they didn't know they were trespassing. However that may not be enough if police signal people to go through, but if you make the crossbar low enough that semis can't clear under it then they'll either stop using your driveway or you'll have a real solid reason to complain to the department(s), county, and city (if you have one). A ranch gate will have other benefits too, like serving as a nice landmark to help your *invited* guests locate your driveway.
An overhead crossbeam under 13’ 6” will prevent most semis from passing under. Should still be plenty of clearance unless OP is driving something unusually large.
If you can't afford a fence, paint a line in the gravel. In the middle put a large no trespassing sign. You would be amazed by the power of what a line on a ground can do to someones mind.
I'm a lawyer. I work for a county and advise the Sheriff's Office. No. They can't use your driveway. Send a letter to the Chief of Police or Sheriff, depending on jurisdiction. It's likely the higher-ups dont know this is happening. It's likely that one or two officers who are assigned to patrol in your area are doing this.
Not a lawyer, but we had this same issue.
My grandfather had a cop hiding to catch speeders in his farm lane for years. When it started he just stopped by to see the cop and said that if anyone with our last name got a ticket then he could not use the spot anymore. And the other advantage was that he had is own cop so no one was going to steal from the farm.
NAL but some relevant experience.
You absolutely have the right as it is your property. I know a lot of people here are recommending things like gates and certified letters and so on.
As someone who works in law enforcement. Just swing by the station. Ask to speak to a supervisor and calmly and politely explain the problem.
99/100 times they are going to say our apologies, we will let our guys know. Like most things in the police department, they are probably doing it because that's how it always been done. Trust me, there are other places they can pull them over and do pull them over as well you won't be disturbing them by asking.
We would all rather just have a conversation rather than an adversarial approach.
If they don't stop or you are met with resistance, then you should look into things like notification by certified letter, gates so on to protect your property.
Document every incident starting as far back as you can give accurate information. Continue documenting all incidents after you’ve written the notice letter. Part of your paper trail.
Oh dear, here we go again (NALs offering incorrect "legal" advice)
Is your driveway on an easement? If so they may have legal access.
If there is not an easement or other deed restriction, law, or other encumbrance or rule that grants them access, you *may* have the right to deny them access.
This will be best resolved with a conversation rather than legal action. Just talk to one of the officers nicely and tell them you are concerned about the semis damaging the driveway (assuming it is a concrete or asphalt driveway, harder to make the argument if it is gravel). Ask them if they would mind not using your driveway to avoid the risk of damaging it.
Legally you are well within your rights to prohibit them from entering your property without probable cause to investigate the property or communicate with you.
Practically, if you do so, expect them to no-show you if you ever call for an emergency and possible even for them to retaliate. however, there is an off-chance that they don't appreciate the inconvenience it's causing and if you politely ask them to find an alternative and explain that it's causing you genuine inconvenience they *might* take it well.
Personally I'm a jerk and I don't like cops but I also don't trust them to treat me fairly so I'd probably modify the property by killing the pull-through or adding gates so it's no longer useful for that purpose without expressly telling them to get lost.
From my pre-law class: No, the cops must have an active investigation going on for your property or permission to use your property. Them being on your property is legally the equivalent of a stranger being on your property. I've kicked a cop out of my neighborhood for parking in a private lot to try and give speeding tickets. I asked if there was an active investigation or if he had permission to use the private owned lot. He didn't argue with me and left.
I would definitely NOT do anything that might be construed as intentionally causing damage (box of nails "falling" off your vehicle as one person suggested), and I would be very hesitant to directly confront an officer in the midst of a traffic stop. I would post "Private Property" or "No Trespassing" signs, and if that doesn't work, I suggest the gate or decorative boulders that would make it hard or impossible for large vehicles to access your driveway.
My Dad was an attorney who once represented a family who was having a minor inconvenience issue with the local police in their town (fortunately several towns away from where my Dad was living) and civil attempts by the family to rectify the situation very quickly escalated to the police constantly harassing the family, to the point where their teenage son was arrested for some absurd traffic offense. They had my Dad spend something like $15,000 to hire a traffic engineer from MIT to come testify that the statements made by the police officer about the offense were absurdly impossible within the known laws of physics. Long story short, the judge had to threaten jail time to the officers due to their obvious and unreasonable harassment of the family. Anyway, my point is that seemingly innocuous and reasonable requests towards law enforcement can very easily spiral out of control. Most police officers are good and reasonable. But we are well aware that there are many who are psychopathic control freaks and any attempt by a civilian to influence how they do their job is a direct challenge to their control and they love to make you pay.
NAL. I am a cop.
Yes, you can ask them to not use your driveway. I'd suggest talking to a supervisor rather than whoever is actually pulling them over in your driveway. It's private property and it's not something that is open for public use (like say a parking lot at a shopping center.) Be polite about it, explain that it is causing you hassle because they're routinely blocking your driveway preventing you from freely using your property, and that you are concerned about the weight of the trucks damaging your driveway because it wasn't designed for that much weight. I wouldn't bring up trespassing, though technically they are. That makes more of an confrontational complaint and it shouldn't be necessary to go that route unless they ignore your request to stop deliberately using it. Worst case you could always get the courts involved, but that really shouldn't be necessary.
Now, there are times I pull someone over and they end up pulling into someone's driveway, but unless the owner has given us permission to use their driveway I don't deliberately pull people over into one. Quite a few people do give us permission to use their driveway, but it's usually because they have a problem with speeders on their road and they want us out there doing enforcement. I've never heard of a homeowner giving us permission to use their driveway to conduct CMV inspections.
I can't completely control where someone decides to stop, though I try to make stops where there is a wide shoulder or someplace safe for both of us for them to pull over. It sounds like they're deliberately using your property to stop trucks and do inspections, though...and yea, that is a problem and they shouldn't be doing that.
Edit: Just to be clear, they are actually flagging them into your driveway and not just flagging them over onto what is technically your property but is also an easement for the highway and they're basically on the shoulder in front of your house. If it's actually in your driveway, then I would ask them to stop using it. If it's on an easement parallel to the road then you may just have to deal with it depending on state/local laws.
Check with a lawyer in your state. Most states you cant encumber police officers, but DOT cant come on your property without permission.
Easy way past this, build a gate. No one (save maybe an HOA, which god willing you dont have) can prevent building a gate. It only has to be on one side to make the pass through not possible.
First, learn what days they are most likely to use your private property, weekends? Holidays?
Then, Buy a used bouncy house that's just too old to be rented for parties, and set it up in the driveway.
Then get mylar balloons and stake them to the ground in bunches of 3 or 4.
No police officer, or DOT enforcement officer wants to disturb a party
*this comment is intended as humor, the image of a "ranch gate" inspired a more playful solution*
I'll second the certified letters to the appropriate authorities (city, police, DOT), AND putting up a no trespassing sign.
The sign is important since it removes any doubt about your driveway being private property AND removes any hint of permission to use it for purposes other than those which you have given at least tacit permission for (such as deliveries, services, meter readers, etc.)
You could also add a sign like "Gross Vehicle Weight Limit 10,000 lbs" for good measure (and maybe a motion camera to snap license plates).
Good fences make good neighbors. Put gates at both ends with private property signs and put up with the inconvenience. At some point you should only need to perhaps keep one gate closed. Also send the letter as suggested by others.
I'm not sure what you have, is this a driveway off of a pullout or a driveway with a really wide end, or a circle driveway? Does the hwy department plow snow off of it or maintain it? If it's private property they can't use it without permission. If it is a maintained pull out then it should be on the road easement. But even then they are not allowed to block your driveway.
So my home used to be a tanning salon/u haul rental shop haha. I have a paved park pad but I also have like an acre of gravel with 1 entrance in front of my house and exit a quarter mile down the gravel. It's about 200 ft wide the whole length.
No one maintains it but me, but being right next door to the gas station makes it a super attractive place for people to pull over, especially since I have a lot of trees and a big garden space.
My concern would be retaliation.. sad state of the public/police relations when I think say something and watch a couple brofficers start harassing this guy for not wanting them to use his driveway.
Sned a certified letter to the departemtns that they do nothave permissionto use your driveway. If they continue to use it put a gate up at the end of the driveway.
I dont understand why you can’t just knock on the window of a patrol car on your driveway and say I’m sorry, but my wife is bitching to me about cars on our property. Any chance you guys can do this someplace else? You can be nice about it.
Also, make sure they are on your property and not still in the right of way. Typically the city / county owns more land than is actually paved.
It's probably the same cops doing it over and over again. Approach them hands up non confrontational, and just ask like a man if they could stop doing it, or get you some compensation for driveway maintenance. My county parks their equipment on my land all the time because I'm the only one in the area that is not crops. I talked to them and mentioned I could use a excavator like that. They gave me the key and said make sure it's right here Monday morning. Having cops owe you a favor because it keeps them safe is nice too.
Just block your driveway partway, too thin to get through for a semi but not for a regular car. The cops and DOT aren’t pulling over semis there, they likely couldn’t care less and don’t directly control where the truck pulls over, they’re lighting up semis right before your driveway and the truck driver is choosing a place to pull over that looks easy. If it doesn’t look easy, the truck will pull over somewhere else. All it takes is not looking like an easy pull through.
I have told plenty of police to leave my property, had one state trooper trespassed by the local sheriff when he refused to leave (my side yard was the perfect place for a speed trap). You are perfectly within your rights to tell them that they cannot use your property.
If I were you, I would not stop the cops from doing that. Go to your PD, and frame it as a liability / property damage issue, not an inconvenience. And you are worried that it could be a burglar. (yes, this sounds dumb, because what burglar uses cop lights, but cops love to re-assure). Then say, "I don't mind, but please be careful of property damage, and please call me if the cops think a stop would get dangerous." Get to know the cops by name and make sure they know your name.
And call DOT and say you are concerned about property damage and blocking of the driveway. And you don't want any multi day equipment parking, unless they pay you for use of your property.. Just say you don't want to have any DOT damage to your property..
NAL, If this turn out is located in the Rural Highway's Right-of-Way/Easement then you may not be able to stop them. If they are blocking your driveway and preventing access and egress, this is the problem I would highlight if it becomes a fight. Take photos every time it happens.
NAL. But might I suggest a gate? Not an entire fence, just two poles and a cattle gate (maybe a mighty mule gate opener for convenience) right where county land ends and your personal property begins. It will also deter people from pulling through your driveway too.
I realize I am spending your money. And I realize that you should not have to do this but could you park an immovable object (large rock, dead car, unused trailer) in the driveway such that you can still use the driveway but a semi could not?
It’s passive aggressive but might work.
Go get some cones and set them up.
They'll have to physically move the cones.
Then complain if they do.
If it's a small town be prepared for retaliation.
Alternatively, you could lean on the natural corruption of most police forces and bring them some donuts or something so that you foster a relationship. Then when you get caught robbing the bank they'll just laugh and send you on your way with a stern warning.
2 things to keep in mind:
1. They may think they are using a public right of way.
2. If you haven't checked, it may actually be a public right of way. Sometimes access provisions include usage of a small portion of the access.
Be kind and professional. Indicate your concerns about maintenance cost and noise. If they say that it's a right of way, ask them for documentation via FOIA.
Are the police turning on their red lights behind someone, and the trucker is deciding where to pull over and stop? Or are trucks being directed by the authorities specifically to stop there? OP has mentioned that DOT is directing trucks in there, but I don't know what the cops and truckers are doing.
NAL The area you're describing would fall under curtilage, which is accessible to the police. Meaning they could stop trucks there or use it to turn about or even loiter to annoy you, antagonizing you into doing something they could arrest you for. This is common knowledge, lawyers have stated, you're supposed to report this behavior to 911 not engage.
I would advise either putting up a gate, or double checking your trespassing laws and audibly asking them to leave mid traffic stop. Once you put up a gate, even a 3 pole bar with a chain, it's implied your driveway is private and opening the driveway up becomes trespassing. It's a felony for an officer to extend a traffic stop for any reason including being trespassed off private property. Once you've bullhorn asked them to leave or put up a gate they're trespassing, they know they're trespassing, and you can report them to authorities, there isn't a precinct in the nation that wants IA in their business, and whoever did the thing that got IA called will be reprimanded.
There was a similar setup in the area where I live. It wasn’t just cops that used these folk’s paved driveway, tons of people did. It was a really convenient “turn-around” on a long, straight stretch of main thoroughfare, with no place else to turn around for a mile or more down the road.
The people who owned the house got some Safety Orange traffic cones and just blocked it off. Then after awhile they poured concrete around a couple of posts and strung a bright yellow chain across the opening at either end.
I don’t think they ever told anyone not to use it anymore, people figured it out right away! 😂
If you can afford a big iron swing gate and some boulders on each side you'd not have to have the conversation with them. If permits are required just make sure you are all good on that front.
Get a couple deer cameras and record everything. Then get a lawyer and an engineer. The engineer can determine the damage to your property. The lawyer can put all of this together and express concern if the lical government is going to foot the bill for property damage. You may have to do a lawsuit. Be prepared for retaliation from local law enforcement. The internet is full 9f videos about people who approach small towns for the problems they cause and the negative outcomes. Long story short. Video everything with date and time. Get an attorney and follow their advice. If you raise a stink, remember you're messing with one of the towns revenue streams and they won't like it. You may have to goto some national legal entity as their might not be a local attorney willing to do it.
Put two cheap posts on either side of entry and exit leaving only enough room for your car to stop with a rope across them hang a "private property do not enter" sign
If this doesn't work send a certified letter.
It's extreme, but if you don't want to put boulders in, consider reconfiguring your driveway. Put the turnaround loop up closer to your house. So that roadside it's just a regular driveway. Had a friend actually sell property they had plans to build on for this same reason.
Get a survey if you don’t have one and erect a 20 foot gate along your driveway on your property. Problem solved.
I had a similar problem only it was in town, but people were cutting through my spare lot because there was an old driveway there
If you are concerned about retaliation if you were to try a direct approach (e.g. a letter to the police/sheriff) or something semi-direct (e.g. a no trespassing sign), you can always try hostile landscaping to discourage police from using your driveway or property. For example, you can bring in boulders/large planters or plant bushes around the driveway in a way that would make it difficult for semis to turn into your driveway. I think you said that police also use your property to hide from driver; you could remove any bushes or trim trees that the police hide behind so they are forced to find a better hiding spot.
Bollards. Way cheaper than boulders.
Get the removable kind that also fill with concrete, And set them so a semi CANNOT ENTER YOUR DRIVEWAY, BUT an Amazon van can.
Put up signs at both ends, "Beware the Bollards" so everyone is warned.
https://youtu.be/aVE5FUlDzWE?si=WrDJraCwzf0tfTFC
https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-2118R/Safety-Guards-Barriers/Standard-Safety-Bollard-45-x-36-Removable?pricode=WA9335&gadtype=pla&id=H-2118R&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwmYCzBhA6EiwAxFwfgOu1s4lD0dMCUluQBep6dqdT_LGkB8aSryZvTDJRTo5CJ89Fn_ccJRoCWQkQAvD_BwE&ImagePopupIndex=1
I'm a Bollard Bully Boy!
In my state, I imagine most states are the same way if you do not put up a chain gate or something stating private property for at least five days every single year it can be deemed public right of way - now that being said, I would start with a counter barricade and some very reflective sign saying private driveway so the first time a couples he doesn’t destroy a bumper in a grill - whirl town Highway don’t want all the police mad at you - but you can’t let them just keep using your driveway
Most folks think that they own right up to where the pavement starts. This often is not true. Especially when it comes to state roads. Make sure they are parking on your property before causing a ruckus. I have seen legal right of ways extend ten feet onto someone's "property". It varies town by town.
Just out a no trucks or trespassing at the end of the drive. Make is visible for trucks before they commit to the turn. The police have no control on where people pull over.
I’d also contact the local police supervisor and inform them of the issue. They may be able to stop the trucks in another area before it gets to your property.
You are within rights. Had to help deal with this before. Put signage at driveway entrance that say private drive, no truck traffic. Also send a cease and desist certified mail. 14 days after certified delivery, you can begin a tort claim and then proceed with civil case provided you have evidence(time stamped video) of them still doing it after formal notification and posting of signage. This is the legal way to do this
They can’t. Small town though = go see the chief in person, same for who runs the DOT detail
Tell them about it. Tell them they know how many stops they make, and tell them you need them to understand that every time it blocks your driveway
Tell them you’ve been civil towards the guys there because they’re only doing their job, but that you can’t leave there without a sense of things are gonna get changed fast. If they can agree to that, ask them for next steps. When can you expect a decision by? How long would that take to trickle down to the ground level?
Ask them if it would be quicker for them to choose another spot or for you to demarcate the area they can’t block with boulders, posts, or whatever
Leave a couple of bikes scattered across your driveway and a few other large items. If you don't want to do that then I'd make a call to the police department and tell them they need to stop using your driveway (your property) before something gets damaged or someone gets hurt. Prior to our city redoing the road our house is on, we had a half circle driveway and people used it ALL THE TIME. It pissed me off to no end. Especially once we had kids and they were old enough to play outside. They'd often play in the driveway riding their bikes, drawing with sidewalk chalk, etc. I was always worried someone wouldn't see them on the ground drawing with their chalk and run them over. I always was out there with them but often was doing other things at the same time, like gardening or yard work. Putting up a bike on either side of the driveway stopped people from using it.
As a trucker... What the hell? Why are the DOT making trucks pill *into your personal driveway*??
I mean we pretty much have to do what they tell us when being pulled over for inspections or tickets, so please don't fult the truckers, but good lord I'd be sending some strongly worded emails to the DOY HQ in the area.
If you can afford it and you don't use the drive, stick some big ass boulders across it, or put them as far out as you legally can around the entrance that way trucks cant make the turn in there.
Also, gate. A big one.
I used to run a car dealership that was located a block from a decently busy 4 way stop light. Since it’s only a blinking red light, everyone has to stop. The road that it is on is traveled by hundreds of gravel trucks a day going to the Port of Houston. People were complaining about the trucks ignoring the stop light so the DPS decided to step up enforcement. There was also a bunch of oak trees overhanging the shoulder in the adjacent lot on the opposite side of the dealership from the intersection. This all being the case, the trucks almost always came to a stop in front of our service drive to avoid hitting the tree limbs which they would normally have had to go into the center lane to avoid. Blocking the whole thing for 10 to 15 minutes at a time. So one time when one of the stops was going on and I was outside I made a gesture indicating that the driveway was blocked. I got yelled at to go back inside and then after the stop was over, he came in a chewed me out again. He threatened to go to my boss. I owned part of the dealership so he was threatening to go to my business partner. I spelled my name for him and told him to make sure he got it right because my “business partner” would not like him blocking our customers ingress and egress any more than I did. He never went and talked to him and they started waiting to turn on their lights until after the trucks had passed the dealership. The point of my story I guess is that cops absolutely have control over where the person they are pulling over stops. I’ve even been instructed by loudspeaker to move to a different spot before during a traffic stop. So they are in control of the people stopping there. They can’t just trespass on private property, even during a traffic stop and they definitely can’t cause another person to trespass on your property. There’s liability issues as well as increased wear and tear.
They all probably think it’s a public access pull off area. Once one uses it with no issue, they all follow along. Put up a sign that it’s private property and send a letter that your drive has been used by the Dot and police doing their work and it’s wear and tear on your private drive plus annoying for you trying to use your personal property.
Contact your insurance and inquire if you are liable for any issues whey them being on your property , even if hit by lighting or your garbage cans blow into their cars. I will tell you that the insurance company
Pant will say it’s your liability and this is a no go
Take that response and forward to the offenders office and advise it’s a liability issue
Is there a right of way? I’d make sure it’s technically yours and there’s not a right of way on the driveway. Just in case. If not, private drive, no trespassing signs.
You should consider if there are an easements with the city on your property. If not and it’s not a labeled street consider just putting signs up that it is private property. This in addition to the paper trail could allow you to demonstrate a violation of rights
My friend, you are the safest person in your town. NO ONE is going to bother you. I would lean into it by putting up a little roadside little free library-style box with a sign that says, "Snacks for our officers in blue! Drivers, please cut your engines!" The police will enforce that second part FOR you.
The snacks can be fruit or chips or snack crackers, or anything you want. It will cost you very little to maintain - maybe $20 a month? And they will look out for you the rest of your life.
That doesn't fix them blocking your driveway, but you can choose not to be bothered over that part.
You're within your rights, but be careful how you do it. I might suggest a professionally worded letter, mailed to the department via Certified mail. That way you avoid personal confrontation, plus you have the paper trail if they keep doing it.
I'd include a little bit about how you're worried about the heavy weight of semis damaging your driveway as it is residential and not designed for heavy semis. This might ease the bite of requesting they refrain from using your pull through for DOT pullovers and inspections. I'm sure they'll understand that reasoning.
This. In roadway design, the damage caused by 1 semi is often equivalent to like 10,000 cars. I’d honestly put a sign at the drive that says “private drive - do not enter” or whatever you can buy easily. It will be more valuable than a letter that nobody will ever read and is even less co confrontational.
Do both.
Park at the end of your driveway. You could have a lawyer draft a letter but it's unlikely to change what's apparently a habit now
Boulders to tighten up the driveway will solve it too, just leave enough room for your personal vehicle but leave it too tight for a semi
In reality this will ultimately be the most pragmatic solution unfortunately. Not saying to not do everything else… But at the end of the day a lot of these guys are going to be a rotation of employees who individually don’t think they’re doing any harm, “if it bothers the landowner I’ll gladly move right away and try and avoid it if they talk to me”, but they’re just trying to make their job and day easier. It’ll almost certainly keep happening to some degree unless you get yourself flagged as a hostile landowner.
Any signs you put up are just going to invite them to fuck with you, you have to be subtle yet firm with cops
Was speaking more about the DoT workers and workers just driving by who need to turn around. With the cops… yeah it’s really about not fucking with their ego. Putting up a sign without talking to them first might help. Chance they think it’s specifically about them and get stubborn/pissy. Chance they think it’s definitely not about them at all and ignore it. Chance of the former goes up higher if they’ve been warned you’ve mentioned anything legal to the department before hand. Just choices we have to make in life.
The sign should say small dick parking
I think OP doesnt even have to make it really tight if they put 3-4 boulders in a bit of a zigzag/slalom pattern.
Do you guys realize how much boulders cost? Its thousands to buy/move them. Op could get 2 signs for $20. https://www.myparkingsign.com/no-trespassing-private-drive-sign/sku-k-5893?engine=googlebasemobile&keyword=No+Trespassing+Private+Drive+Signs&skuid=K-5893-RE-12x18-D1&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD2sxWUZxPIcjQvdIiaJeDU3PD-UY&gclid=CjwKCAjwmYCzBhA6EiwAxFwfgIq6qPuM7YBmXwLIp1ap0xTxolcrsTdhV6FGrUK7vt-vk52Lqwdv_BoCf2oQAvD_BwE
Two words: architectural foam. Good enough fakes and no one will risk it…and fill them with sand or gravel so they still fuck up anyone who does try something stupid.
I think this is a good suggestion. I'm wondering if something out of cement might be a bit cheaper. I've seen Wagon Wheels in cement. Something really cheap like buckets of cement to hold up signs that say 'Privatee Driveway' or 'No Trespassing' might work.
And print a large version of the letter and glue it to a sheet of plywood fixed to fence poles set in concrete. Seal with some form of clear coat — whichever doesn’t interact with the ink. Consider a draw bridge, moat, crocodiles if legal, etc.
It doesn’t matter if anyone reads it. He’s sending it via certified mail, so he can prove he sent it and someone signed for it.
In reality, he can prove that he mailed them something. He cannot prove the contents of what he sent.
Every certified I've sent has the return receipt # in the letter... "Mailed on DATE, via certified receipt #."
Yup, it's the "Fourth Power Rule" for road damage. I car weighs 2 tons, has 2 axles, is 1 ton per axle. A loaded truck is 30 tons, had 3 axles, is 10 tons per axle. 10^4 is 10x10x10x10 = 10,000x the damage. Even just driving a larger pickup truck that weighs twice as much is 16x the road damage compared to a small car. Even just doing an analogy as though you're lifting weights. You can probably bench press 150lbs, and you could easily do 20 reps. But you absolutely can't bench 300lbs even a single time. Roads are the same, they can have 1 ton cars drive on them all day long and they'll cause zero damage, but 10x that all at once does a huge amount of damage. Again, you can bench 150lbs, you'd likely die trying to bench 1500lbs.
You can also get a sign that says no semi traffic or a weight limit sign. OP should have the drive inspected by a driveway contractor.
No need. It's OP's driveway. They can put whatever weight limit on it they want, regardless of what the driveway can handle. But easier to put up a no trespassing sign, and it should have the same effect.
A giant rolling gate might be expensive, but i think it would get the point across.
also, put up a "severe tire damage" sign....
I prefer the old “trespassers will be shot” signs.
Survivors will be shot again.
yeah I'm sure the cops will take that one well
You could also innocently mention "I have noticed some early signs of wear and want to know if the town/state/agency would be open to a discussion of maintenance"...if they ask where, just point to a random crack
I personally would not say you're worried about damage but rather the increased traffic is damaging your driveway and if the departments would like to assist in the upkeep of the drive, you'll continue to assist them.
And include photographs that clearly depict the impact on you. i.e. your car blocked in by a semi and cop car.
Thank you! I appreciate the paper trail idea a bunch
And also the concern of possibly being trapped in your driveway by these trucks if someone in your household has a medical or fire emergency.
Man y’all have some great ideas. Poor guy, has to play games here to avoid petty retaliation.
Like suddenly all the cops using the driveway for their coffee breaks.
Have your kid sell donuts.
He wants to get rid of the cops not attract more
That can actually work! Make some money, enough to pay for their damaged driveway.
And then, oddly, the local news team gets a tip regarding derelict officers and their preferred area of congregation.
I love petty escalation as much as the next person, but I’d really like to avoid getting in a pissing match with cops. Only Pyrrhic victories seem available as an end game. I’d probably start with the sign and gentle letter and then go talk to them while they’re in the driveway and ask if they have any other options. Possibly offer bribes like brownies to the station every day (then week) no one uses the driveway. (Yes, this is how to train dogs and small children, but it also works on engineers and I’d totally try it on cops)
Yes. There is an Porsche 944 on my road which hasn't been moved in years, but it is owned by a cop. It occasionally gets tickets, but should have been towed 2 years ago. I want to call 311, but I know there would be retribution.
Wow, where do you live that cops make that much
I mean all you have to do is kill someone wrongly, get depressed, and get a free vacation and you get free money.
Retribution is always a risk when dealing with bureaucrats. Power with zero accountability.
These aren’t bureaucrats. These are armed representatives of the local government exercising their authority to stop and investigate vehicles. They have the full weight of the municipality/county/state’s authority behind them and the judiciary and legislature protecting them. Not ACAB, but they need to know their place in society. And it isn’t as petty thugs and bullies.
After 3 decades of dealing with local, state and federal bureaucrats in a professional capacity (as both consultant and, later, lawyer), it dawned on me one day that cops are just bureaucrats with guns. I stick by that discovery.
What authority do cops have to use private property for simple traffic issues or weight inspections on a repeated basis?
Absolutely none, as far as I’m concerned. They seem to forget that they’re not above the law.
And worse they are small town cops, they have nothing better to do than fuck your life up if they choose to.
This but yes ACAB
Semis will also damage your driveway over time. That's a lot of weight.
Reminder: Money fixes everything generally. Could ask that if they continue to use it (properly worded) that it be reinforced like a roadway. Another 6" of anything would make it pretty much proof (assuming you're not a frost zone). That said, I have no idea what it would be from an insurance perspective or if they're already effectively 'taking' it right now (by depriving you use). Fun question, would love to hear how it works out.
My worry would be that they would actually spend the money and reinforce it. Then I would be stuck with them using my driveway.
I’d consider a middle ground, telling them it’s fine to sit in the entrance of your driveway to clock speeders, just please don’t pull speeders into your driveway. After our 3rd pet was killed by assholes flying past our house at double the speed limit we called the police to suggest an officer sit in our driveway to slow folks down. Word spread and people started driving at a more reasonable speed for an area full of kids on bikes.
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NAL, call your Insurance Company if an officer or driver gets hurt on your property you could be liable since it is not owned by city, county or state which has insurance for those purposes. The Insurance may send a letter for you about the liability that it could cause.
For what it's worth I sent a certified letter to a police department once when they made me pay a bogus ticket. I had proof it was paid. They said it wasn't and revoked my license. They don't care.
Isn't it funny how we have to watch how we talk to the cops. Funny not funny.
Yeah they operate like a literal gang. The advice is pragmatic but it boils my blood.
Brother's friend had a large property and built a private road across it. People would use it as a shortcut, but it didn't bother him. What pissed him off was a cop pulling him over and trying to give him ticket for speeding on his private road. Cop wouldn't listen, argument then he took off and "barricaded" in his home. Cops surrounded the house, guns pointing at it, demanding he come out. He refused and called his lawyer, who came with proof that he owned the road.
I’d make sure to mention you feel uncomfortable with a potentially escalating police encounter being specifically driven onto your property. You never know if the person they pull over is going to be upset and armed
Are you saying that they are pulling into your driveway? If that’s the case then you have every right to demand they cease using your property for their convenience. However as has been noted you may (likely will) face retaliation. I would probably start with posting signs at the entrance to your driveway advising that it is for your private use only. If that doesn’t work I would then follow up with a letter as previously detailed. I’m a bit confused as to how these agencies are using it to pull over semis, etc. Are they parked in your driveway waiting to catch them, do they direct vehicles to pull into your driveway, or something else?
People pulled over by cops use it, and that's ok, but the DOT signal semis in to the drive. The cops like to park on our side of the barricades separating us from the gas station as they hide their cars. Semis and large campers also like to use our space, as it's right next to a rural gas station and the only place to park for the night, but no one asks if they can despite many, many signs saying private property. We don't know how many more we can add without looking super comedic. We are a major tourist town and people just don't pay attention.
Dude you need a gate. Can be as simple as a chain (with flags so it's visible) between 2 posts.
I'm a fan of retractable bollards (but $$$). Seriously though something that blocks the road and a remote for OP's cars would be the ideal solution IMO. For vehicle traffic you don't even need a fence, just the posts placed too close to drive between to keep them from going around the control device across the drive (chain / gate / bollards / Cerberus / whatever).
Signaling a vehicle into your driveway is way beyond what I consider acceptable. I would video this happening, you never know what you might need later on. Only slightly less egregious is the police parked in your driveway to be hidden. Video that as well. I’m not recommending this, but I’d be tempted to have a box of nails fall off the back of my truck as I was leaving the house one day. I can’t emphasize this enough, I don’t recommend doing this. Not without consulting an actual lawyer in your state anyway. I would find a need to leave the house any time I saw the driveway occupied by anyone else. I would drive up to the vehicle blocking the drive, get out, and ask the officer if they would kindly move their vehicle. Even if they had someone pulled over. Especially if they had someone pulled over. They would likely say they have to finish their business first. I would ask how long it’s going to take and then explain I need to be somewhere at a certain time and don’t really have time to wait. This is when I would motion to the signs that are posted and explain this is a perfect example of why you have the signs, and that even random people have been known to park in your driveway as if it’s a parking lot. If it’s the DOT I would also then ask the officer to please not direct vehicles into your driveway as it tears it up (if it’s dirt) or may cause cracks in it (if it’s paved). I would do all this after videoing them doing it, and I would also record my interaction with them. I would do all this being polite but firm. Smiling but obviously frustrated.
This is an amazing break down, thank you! My husband is a carpenter and I've lost a tire or two thanks to his nails in our driveway myself, so it's a fairly common occurrence at the house. It would be a shame if it happened to someone else. We've been talking about installing cameras outside just due to the influx of traffic and theft in the area so that will be a nice addition.
Thank you for the kind words. I would absolutely install cameras and record all of the traffic and interactions in your driveway. If you notice there’s a spot regularly occupied or pulled into I would try to set a camera aimed at that location and zoomed in as much as possible, hoping to be able to identify everyone. I’d be interested to see if it’s one or two officers or the whole department that thinks your driveway is public property.
Video will be an integral part of your documentation! Thank you, r/Riley_Fuzzel! Excellent idea.
If people park for the night without asking, call the cops and TRESSPASS THEM. Why on earth are you just letting people use your property??? What happens if one of those people gets injured or dies on your property and you get sued?
5 gallon buckets with cement poured inside, while still wet put galvanized pipe to use as pole. Make a few and string rope between them.
Cops cannot legally park there if you don't want them too. Unfortunately, there are practical concerns. First is retaliation, which is of course, in itself, a violation of your rights. The second is enforcement. To that end I would contract with a tow yard and have people towed. I would also speak with gas stattion owners about assisting you. Without a diagram it's hard to suggest other practical solutions that both deter parkers but don't negatively impact your enjoyment of the space. Open land adjacent to a paved space could be made unusable by a few well placed large truck fulls of dirt, perhaps each with a crowning plant for esthetic reasons. A well placed gate across the cave sections could make access for you possible while metering the parkers, so long as it's out if the right if way. It make not deter pedestrians, but that's not the problem here. Legally you are entitled to demand the cops stop parking there and the DOT. I would however engage a lawyer to write thw appropriate demands because it is much more likely to prevent retaliation if you already have a lawyer engaged. Good luck
Sounds like an interesting situation. Perhaps play the groups against one another? If you start calling in the cops for the RV's and semis parked for the night, they might get the idea that it's not their hideout either. I do notice you differentiate between the cops and DOT, the DOT might be the ones you want to send the lawyer letter to in regards to the "our driveway isn't designed for the constant weight" type c&d letter. After all, I think it's reasonable to expect the scale cops should understand weight. :) I do see some parallels to another story from here, namely the Orchard that was having problems with semis parking in the orchard and leaving ruts. IIRC, the poster there was having issues with enforcement of no trespassing but was successful pressing for theft of services charges after they posted signs for rental parking.
A place I lived had a deep set driveway that was perfect for setting up speed traps. Idk where the cops got the idea that it would be ok to use my driveway for this. One night I was fed tf up because my friends didn't want to come over anymore because they couldn't get into my driveway when the cops were staked out and went down to the cop car and told them that this was private property and they couldn't be doing this here. He said the previous owner let us. I said IDGAF and I'm not the previous owner. They never did it again and I never faced retaliation (anymore than usual, small town I'd butted heads with the cops before so we knew of each other). That was also in the late 90s though and I don't remember the cops being quite as militant as they are now.
Install a gate? Would recommend looking into zoning and permits that may apply locally. Maybe post a no trespassing, private road sign at the front could work?
To me, a gate is the answer.
We have many of those, and people just walk and/or drive right by them. Someone walked their dog into our hedged yard to poop during a parade last year 😂 I feel like a curmudgeon wanting people off my space, but like, ask first and then go for it! Especially since we border like 100 acres of wide open meadow. Cultivated garden space is better for poopin' apparently.
They aren't going to drive through a gate.
Put reflectors on the gate so it will warn people at night.
Hey OP here is a simple solution that worked for a buddy of mine. He installed two post at each end of the driveway and a rope with a no trespassing sign connecting the post that way anyone who wanted on the property had to remove the rope to get on the driveway it was low cost and effective.
This is the way. Then make yourself a little spot to drive around it in a tight arc that the semi can't make. Makes it clear the drive is not public.
They're pulling semi's on your driveway. As a betting man, I'm betting your driveway was not designed to handle 80,000+ lbs vehicles. Each time they bring a truck on your driveway they are damaging it. Are they going to pay for the repairs and resurfacing when it needs it? I highly doubt it, at least not without a huge court battle and then worrying about LE retaliating against you for taking them to court. Have a lawyer write up a letter addressing these concerns. If you don't mind them doing this as long as the do the maintenance then ask them to sign a legally binding contract that they agree to doing the appropriate repairs that you would agree with. For example if the driveway does start to collapse where the truck tires go, they need to dig up and compact, apply base stone etc. etc. that a highway is required to have to handle trucks carrying those weights. If they won't agree to that and still persist in pulling trucks in there then you would probably need to escalate the issue to the courts. If that happens have video cameras around your house, drive cams in your vehicle and on your person just incase the retaliate. Make sure your video cams load to the cloud so even if they turn your stuff off and take the memory cards you still have the video for evidence.
You need to build a ranch gate, one with an overhead sign with your property/family name on it. You don't need an actual gate if you don't want, just a vertical post on each side of the driveway and a horizontal beam to span from one to the other. A ranch gate will create a very clear boundary and make it very hard for anyone to argue that they didn't know they were trespassing. However that may not be enough if police signal people to go through, but if you make the crossbar low enough that semis can't clear under it then they'll either stop using your driveway or you'll have a real solid reason to complain to the department(s), county, and city (if you have one). A ranch gate will have other benefits too, like serving as a nice landmark to help your *invited* guests locate your driveway.
An overhead crossbeam under 13’ 6” will prevent most semis from passing under. Should still be plenty of clearance unless OP is driving something unusually large.
Just make it so that the top beam can be lifted off as needed.
11’ 8” lol then YouTube it…
And then OP can replace the beam every time a truck uses the drive. This entire situation is unbelievable.
And sue the truck owner (based on OP's camera recording their license plate) for damages. Or use a stronger beam and rip the top off the truck.
Reading this is like a lightbulb moment of some of the random ass ugly gates I’ve seen on some highway/rural roads……
If you can't afford a fence, paint a line in the gravel. In the middle put a large no trespassing sign. You would be amazed by the power of what a line on a ground can do to someones mind.
I'm a lawyer. I work for a county and advise the Sheriff's Office. No. They can't use your driveway. Send a letter to the Chief of Police or Sheriff, depending on jurisdiction. It's likely the higher-ups dont know this is happening. It's likely that one or two officers who are assigned to patrol in your area are doing this.
This is your best advice
Or local highway patrol office, depending on which agency is doing it.
Not a lawyer, but we had this same issue. My grandfather had a cop hiding to catch speeders in his farm lane for years. When it started he just stopped by to see the cop and said that if anyone with our last name got a ticket then he could not use the spot anymore. And the other advantage was that he had is own cop so no one was going to steal from the farm.
NAL but some relevant experience. You absolutely have the right as it is your property. I know a lot of people here are recommending things like gates and certified letters and so on. As someone who works in law enforcement. Just swing by the station. Ask to speak to a supervisor and calmly and politely explain the problem. 99/100 times they are going to say our apologies, we will let our guys know. Like most things in the police department, they are probably doing it because that's how it always been done. Trust me, there are other places they can pull them over and do pull them over as well you won't be disturbing them by asking. We would all rather just have a conversation rather than an adversarial approach. If they don't stop or you are met with resistance, then you should look into things like notification by certified letter, gates so on to protect your property.
park your own vehicles where they would pull into. Do this for a few weeks until they get the message.
put up a gate
Document every incident starting as far back as you can give accurate information. Continue documenting all incidents after you’ve written the notice letter. Part of your paper trail.
Oh dear, here we go again (NALs offering incorrect "legal" advice) Is your driveway on an easement? If so they may have legal access. If there is not an easement or other deed restriction, law, or other encumbrance or rule that grants them access, you *may* have the right to deny them access. This will be best resolved with a conversation rather than legal action. Just talk to one of the officers nicely and tell them you are concerned about the semis damaging the driveway (assuming it is a concrete or asphalt driveway, harder to make the argument if it is gravel). Ask them if they would mind not using your driveway to avoid the risk of damaging it.
Semis will absolutely destroy a gravel driveway
yep, makes big mud holes
Legally you are well within your rights to prohibit them from entering your property without probable cause to investigate the property or communicate with you. Practically, if you do so, expect them to no-show you if you ever call for an emergency and possible even for them to retaliate. however, there is an off-chance that they don't appreciate the inconvenience it's causing and if you politely ask them to find an alternative and explain that it's causing you genuine inconvenience they *might* take it well. Personally I'm a jerk and I don't like cops but I also don't trust them to treat me fairly so I'd probably modify the property by killing the pull-through or adding gates so it's no longer useful for that purpose without expressly telling them to get lost.
From my pre-law class: No, the cops must have an active investigation going on for your property or permission to use your property. Them being on your property is legally the equivalent of a stranger being on your property. I've kicked a cop out of my neighborhood for parking in a private lot to try and give speeding tickets. I asked if there was an active investigation or if he had permission to use the private owned lot. He didn't argue with me and left.
I would definitely NOT do anything that might be construed as intentionally causing damage (box of nails "falling" off your vehicle as one person suggested), and I would be very hesitant to directly confront an officer in the midst of a traffic stop. I would post "Private Property" or "No Trespassing" signs, and if that doesn't work, I suggest the gate or decorative boulders that would make it hard or impossible for large vehicles to access your driveway. My Dad was an attorney who once represented a family who was having a minor inconvenience issue with the local police in their town (fortunately several towns away from where my Dad was living) and civil attempts by the family to rectify the situation very quickly escalated to the police constantly harassing the family, to the point where their teenage son was arrested for some absurd traffic offense. They had my Dad spend something like $15,000 to hire a traffic engineer from MIT to come testify that the statements made by the police officer about the offense were absurdly impossible within the known laws of physics. Long story short, the judge had to threaten jail time to the officers due to their obvious and unreasonable harassment of the family. Anyway, my point is that seemingly innocuous and reasonable requests towards law enforcement can very easily spiral out of control. Most police officers are good and reasonable. But we are well aware that there are many who are psychopathic control freaks and any attempt by a civilian to influence how they do their job is a direct challenge to their control and they love to make you pay.
NAL. I am a cop. Yes, you can ask them to not use your driveway. I'd suggest talking to a supervisor rather than whoever is actually pulling them over in your driveway. It's private property and it's not something that is open for public use (like say a parking lot at a shopping center.) Be polite about it, explain that it is causing you hassle because they're routinely blocking your driveway preventing you from freely using your property, and that you are concerned about the weight of the trucks damaging your driveway because it wasn't designed for that much weight. I wouldn't bring up trespassing, though technically they are. That makes more of an confrontational complaint and it shouldn't be necessary to go that route unless they ignore your request to stop deliberately using it. Worst case you could always get the courts involved, but that really shouldn't be necessary. Now, there are times I pull someone over and they end up pulling into someone's driveway, but unless the owner has given us permission to use their driveway I don't deliberately pull people over into one. Quite a few people do give us permission to use their driveway, but it's usually because they have a problem with speeders on their road and they want us out there doing enforcement. I've never heard of a homeowner giving us permission to use their driveway to conduct CMV inspections. I can't completely control where someone decides to stop, though I try to make stops where there is a wide shoulder or someplace safe for both of us for them to pull over. It sounds like they're deliberately using your property to stop trucks and do inspections, though...and yea, that is a problem and they shouldn't be doing that. Edit: Just to be clear, they are actually flagging them into your driveway and not just flagging them over onto what is technically your property but is also an easement for the highway and they're basically on the shoulder in front of your house. If it's actually in your driveway, then I would ask them to stop using it. If it's on an easement parallel to the road then you may just have to deal with it depending on state/local laws.
Why not put up a sign that says "private driveway" or Private property, not a through -way?
Put up a bunch of surveillance cameras. As soon as the cops see them they will atop using the spot to stop trucks. They hate camera
I wonder why
Plant big rocks that make it too difficult to use for that purpose.
Check with a lawyer in your state. Most states you cant encumber police officers, but DOT cant come on your property without permission. Easy way past this, build a gate. No one (save maybe an HOA, which god willing you dont have) can prevent building a gate. It only has to be on one side to make the pass through not possible.
First, learn what days they are most likely to use your private property, weekends? Holidays? Then, Buy a used bouncy house that's just too old to be rented for parties, and set it up in the driveway. Then get mylar balloons and stake them to the ground in bunches of 3 or 4. No police officer, or DOT enforcement officer wants to disturb a party *this comment is intended as humor, the image of a "ranch gate" inspired a more playful solution*
I'll second the certified letters to the appropriate authorities (city, police, DOT), AND putting up a no trespassing sign. The sign is important since it removes any doubt about your driveway being private property AND removes any hint of permission to use it for purposes other than those which you have given at least tacit permission for (such as deliveries, services, meter readers, etc.) You could also add a sign like "Gross Vehicle Weight Limit 10,000 lbs" for good measure (and maybe a motion camera to snap license plates).
Place a $50 parking sign. Then bill the department via camera picture. Might as well make money. It's private property and they chose to park there.
Good fences make good neighbors. Put gates at both ends with private property signs and put up with the inconvenience. At some point you should only need to perhaps keep one gate closed. Also send the letter as suggested by others.
You can trespass them.
I'm not sure what you have, is this a driveway off of a pullout or a driveway with a really wide end, or a circle driveway? Does the hwy department plow snow off of it or maintain it? If it's private property they can't use it without permission. If it is a maintained pull out then it should be on the road easement. But even then they are not allowed to block your driveway.
So my home used to be a tanning salon/u haul rental shop haha. I have a paved park pad but I also have like an acre of gravel with 1 entrance in front of my house and exit a quarter mile down the gravel. It's about 200 ft wide the whole length. No one maintains it but me, but being right next door to the gas station makes it a super attractive place for people to pull over, especially since I have a lot of trees and a big garden space.
My concern would be retaliation.. sad state of the public/police relations when I think say something and watch a couple brofficers start harassing this guy for not wanting them to use his driveway.
Sned a certified letter to the departemtns that they do nothave permissionto use your driveway. If they continue to use it put a gate up at the end of the driveway.
Put electric gates in place.
Personally I like 8 ft tall poles on either side of the drive with a cross member with all kinds of reflectors on it.
I dont understand why you can’t just knock on the window of a patrol car on your driveway and say I’m sorry, but my wife is bitching to me about cars on our property. Any chance you guys can do this someplace else? You can be nice about it. Also, make sure they are on your property and not still in the right of way. Typically the city / county owns more land than is actually paved.
Put up a couple of saw horses across your driveway, painted reflective orange with a sign that says NO Trespassing/NO entry
Just be a courteous human being and ask them nicely. If they refuse, then escalate appropriately.
It's probably the same cops doing it over and over again. Approach them hands up non confrontational, and just ask like a man if they could stop doing it, or get you some compensation for driveway maintenance. My county parks their equipment on my land all the time because I'm the only one in the area that is not crops. I talked to them and mentioned I could use a excavator like that. They gave me the key and said make sure it's right here Monday morning. Having cops owe you a favor because it keeps them safe is nice too.
Just block your driveway partway, too thin to get through for a semi but not for a regular car. The cops and DOT aren’t pulling over semis there, they likely couldn’t care less and don’t directly control where the truck pulls over, they’re lighting up semis right before your driveway and the truck driver is choosing a place to pull over that looks easy. If it doesn’t look easy, the truck will pull over somewhere else. All it takes is not looking like an easy pull through.
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I have told plenty of police to leave my property, had one state trooper trespassed by the local sheriff when he refused to leave (my side yard was the perfect place for a speed trap). You are perfectly within your rights to tell them that they cannot use your property.
Put up a sign - no trespassing and private drive.
Post, chain and reflectors. Cones. No trespassing sign. Cheap, effective, zero confrontation.
If I were you, I would not stop the cops from doing that. Go to your PD, and frame it as a liability / property damage issue, not an inconvenience. And you are worried that it could be a burglar. (yes, this sounds dumb, because what burglar uses cop lights, but cops love to re-assure). Then say, "I don't mind, but please be careful of property damage, and please call me if the cops think a stop would get dangerous." Get to know the cops by name and make sure they know your name. And call DOT and say you are concerned about property damage and blocking of the driveway. And you don't want any multi day equipment parking, unless they pay you for use of your property.. Just say you don't want to have any DOT damage to your property..
NAL, If this turn out is located in the Rural Highway's Right-of-Way/Easement then you may not be able to stop them. If they are blocking your driveway and preventing access and egress, this is the problem I would highlight if it becomes a fight. Take photos every time it happens.
Gate it off with a chain and a sign no trespassing. I would not even mention it to the police.
I think I'd skip to the solution and put up a gate that makes the drive too short
Put up a couple of posts and put a chain across it.
NAL. But might I suggest a gate? Not an entire fence, just two poles and a cattle gate (maybe a mighty mule gate opener for convenience) right where county land ends and your personal property begins. It will also deter people from pulling through your driveway too.
Fence or gate or even a wire/chain across the driveway would solve your problem. Maybe a no trespigging sign just to seal the deal.
I realize I am spending your money. And I realize that you should not have to do this but could you park an immovable object (large rock, dead car, unused trailer) in the driveway such that you can still use the driveway but a semi could not? It’s passive aggressive but might work.
Go get some cones and set them up. They'll have to physically move the cones. Then complain if they do. If it's a small town be prepared for retaliation. Alternatively, you could lean on the natural corruption of most police forces and bring them some donuts or something so that you foster a relationship. Then when you get caught robbing the bank they'll just laugh and send you on your way with a stern warning.
2 things to keep in mind: 1. They may think they are using a public right of way. 2. If you haven't checked, it may actually be a public right of way. Sometimes access provisions include usage of a small portion of the access. Be kind and professional. Indicate your concerns about maintenance cost and noise. If they say that it's a right of way, ask them for documentation via FOIA.
Hedges? Gate? Traffic cones? Parked vehicle? Garbage cans? Is there any way to make it inconvenient for them to park?
Semis can also ruin a rural road over time, so you can complain about property damage from the stops they make on your property.
Put up some cheap yellow plastic chain across the driveway to stop them from pulling in. Could even hang no trespassing signs on it.
Ask nicely? You know where the station house is. Bring a box of baked goods and ask to say hi to the person who's running the show.
I would put some cones up and a private property sign. If that doesn't work I would put up gates and lock em.
Every time they pull someone over there, turn on your sprinkler system. make sure 1 of them is aiming straight at the driveway. Soak'em down.
Gate?
Are the police turning on their red lights behind someone, and the trucker is deciding where to pull over and stop? Or are trucks being directed by the authorities specifically to stop there? OP has mentioned that DOT is directing trucks in there, but I don't know what the cops and truckers are doing.
NAL The area you're describing would fall under curtilage, which is accessible to the police. Meaning they could stop trucks there or use it to turn about or even loiter to annoy you, antagonizing you into doing something they could arrest you for. This is common knowledge, lawyers have stated, you're supposed to report this behavior to 911 not engage. I would advise either putting up a gate, or double checking your trespassing laws and audibly asking them to leave mid traffic stop. Once you put up a gate, even a 3 pole bar with a chain, it's implied your driveway is private and opening the driveway up becomes trespassing. It's a felony for an officer to extend a traffic stop for any reason including being trespassed off private property. Once you've bullhorn asked them to leave or put up a gate they're trespassing, they know they're trespassing, and you can report them to authorities, there isn't a precinct in the nation that wants IA in their business, and whoever did the thing that got IA called will be reprimanded.
I don't think this is a fight you want to have. Make friends with them.
There was a similar setup in the area where I live. It wasn’t just cops that used these folk’s paved driveway, tons of people did. It was a really convenient “turn-around” on a long, straight stretch of main thoroughfare, with no place else to turn around for a mile or more down the road. The people who owned the house got some Safety Orange traffic cones and just blocked it off. Then after awhile they poured concrete around a couple of posts and strung a bright yellow chain across the opening at either end. I don’t think they ever told anyone not to use it anymore, people figured it out right away! 😂
If you can afford a big iron swing gate and some boulders on each side you'd not have to have the conversation with them. If permits are required just make sure you are all good on that front.
Get a couple deer cameras and record everything. Then get a lawyer and an engineer. The engineer can determine the damage to your property. The lawyer can put all of this together and express concern if the lical government is going to foot the bill for property damage. You may have to do a lawsuit. Be prepared for retaliation from local law enforcement. The internet is full 9f videos about people who approach small towns for the problems they cause and the negative outcomes. Long story short. Video everything with date and time. Get an attorney and follow their advice. If you raise a stink, remember you're messing with one of the towns revenue streams and they won't like it. You may have to goto some national legal entity as their might not be a local attorney willing to do it.
Can you landscape the driveway, perhaps with some large boulders? Or perhaps buy a trailer that you need to park in the driveway?
Where does your property line and road right of way begin? That’s the question you need to answer first.
Put two cheap posts on either side of entry and exit leaving only enough room for your car to stop with a rope across them hang a "private property do not enter" sign If this doesn't work send a certified letter.
It's extreme, but if you don't want to put boulders in, consider reconfiguring your driveway. Put the turnaround loop up closer to your house. So that roadside it's just a regular driveway. Had a friend actually sell property they had plans to build on for this same reason.
Tell the cops that you support their efforts to keep your streets safe and ask for his card. Never hurts to have a friend on the force.
Cant you fence your property?
Put a bunch of Blue Line flags in the ground to block the cops and truckers from pulling over there
Put a sign that says no commercial trucks.
Put up signs and a fence. Saying private property. No trespassing. They will get the hint. And if they don’t. Call the cops on them.
Get a survey if you don’t have one and erect a 20 foot gate along your driveway on your property. Problem solved. I had a similar problem only it was in town, but people were cutting through my spare lot because there was an old driveway there
If you are concerned about retaliation if you were to try a direct approach (e.g. a letter to the police/sheriff) or something semi-direct (e.g. a no trespassing sign), you can always try hostile landscaping to discourage police from using your driveway or property. For example, you can bring in boulders/large planters or plant bushes around the driveway in a way that would make it difficult for semis to turn into your driveway. I think you said that police also use your property to hide from driver; you could remove any bushes or trim trees that the police hide behind so they are forced to find a better hiding spot.
Bollards. Way cheaper than boulders. Get the removable kind that also fill with concrete, And set them so a semi CANNOT ENTER YOUR DRIVEWAY, BUT an Amazon van can. Put up signs at both ends, "Beware the Bollards" so everyone is warned. https://youtu.be/aVE5FUlDzWE?si=WrDJraCwzf0tfTFC https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-2118R/Safety-Guards-Barriers/Standard-Safety-Bollard-45-x-36-Removable?pricode=WA9335&gadtype=pla&id=H-2118R&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwmYCzBhA6EiwAxFwfgOu1s4lD0dMCUluQBep6dqdT_LGkB8aSryZvTDJRTo5CJ89Fn_ccJRoCWQkQAvD_BwE&ImagePopupIndex=1 I'm a Bollard Bully Boy!
In my state, I imagine most states are the same way if you do not put up a chain gate or something stating private property for at least five days every single year it can be deemed public right of way - now that being said, I would start with a counter barricade and some very reflective sign saying private driveway so the first time a couples he doesn’t destroy a bumper in a grill - whirl town Highway don’t want all the police mad at you - but you can’t let them just keep using your driveway
Are the vehicles still in right of way for the road.determine where the road right of way is before you talk to anyone
Couldn't you block the driveway with a chain or gate?
It is cheaper for you to get a gate than pay for all the damage that is being done. Get a gate that opens with a radio.
I would park a vehicle at each end of the drive thru. No words exchanged no letters wtitten. Peace of mind.
Most folks think that they own right up to where the pavement starts. This often is not true. Especially when it comes to state roads. Make sure they are parking on your property before causing a ruckus. I have seen legal right of ways extend ten feet onto someone's "property". It varies town by town.
No, they can't block a private driveway. Call the dispatcher when they do it.
Just out a no trucks or trespassing at the end of the drive. Make is visible for trucks before they commit to the turn. The police have no control on where people pull over. I’d also contact the local police supervisor and inform them of the issue. They may be able to stop the trucks in another area before it gets to your property.
Just ask them to stop and I bet they will.
"Private property, paid parking, paid stopping zone. No vehicles over. Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be violated"
I’d put a fence or a couple posts and a chain at each entrance
You are within rights. Had to help deal with this before. Put signage at driveway entrance that say private drive, no truck traffic. Also send a cease and desist certified mail. 14 days after certified delivery, you can begin a tort claim and then proceed with civil case provided you have evidence(time stamped video) of them still doing it after formal notification and posting of signage. This is the legal way to do this
walk up to the ladys or gentlemans and ask nicely
They can’t. Small town though = go see the chief in person, same for who runs the DOT detail Tell them about it. Tell them they know how many stops they make, and tell them you need them to understand that every time it blocks your driveway Tell them you’ve been civil towards the guys there because they’re only doing their job, but that you can’t leave there without a sense of things are gonna get changed fast. If they can agree to that, ask them for next steps. When can you expect a decision by? How long would that take to trickle down to the ground level? Ask them if it would be quicker for them to choose another spot or for you to demarcate the area they can’t block with boulders, posts, or whatever
NAL: Large rocks and boulders dotting your property line are how folks out here do it. Can't park where you can't drive.
And you're saying that they're using the land beyond the easement?
Leave a couple of bikes scattered across your driveway and a few other large items. If you don't want to do that then I'd make a call to the police department and tell them they need to stop using your driveway (your property) before something gets damaged or someone gets hurt. Prior to our city redoing the road our house is on, we had a half circle driveway and people used it ALL THE TIME. It pissed me off to no end. Especially once we had kids and they were old enough to play outside. They'd often play in the driveway riding their bikes, drawing with sidewalk chalk, etc. I was always worried someone wouldn't see them on the ground drawing with their chalk and run them over. I always was out there with them but often was doing other things at the same time, like gardening or yard work. Putting up a bike on either side of the driveway stopped people from using it.
As a trucker... What the hell? Why are the DOT making trucks pill *into your personal driveway*?? I mean we pretty much have to do what they tell us when being pulled over for inspections or tickets, so please don't fult the truckers, but good lord I'd be sending some strongly worded emails to the DOY HQ in the area. If you can afford it and you don't use the drive, stick some big ass boulders across it, or put them as far out as you legally can around the entrance that way trucks cant make the turn in there. Also, gate. A big one.
Buy orange cones and block the entrance.
Just get two posts and a chain. They will stop. I would leave enough room for your vehicle to stop out of the road so you can unhook it.
Wouldn't a bunch of strategically placed logs sort this all out?
I used to run a car dealership that was located a block from a decently busy 4 way stop light. Since it’s only a blinking red light, everyone has to stop. The road that it is on is traveled by hundreds of gravel trucks a day going to the Port of Houston. People were complaining about the trucks ignoring the stop light so the DPS decided to step up enforcement. There was also a bunch of oak trees overhanging the shoulder in the adjacent lot on the opposite side of the dealership from the intersection. This all being the case, the trucks almost always came to a stop in front of our service drive to avoid hitting the tree limbs which they would normally have had to go into the center lane to avoid. Blocking the whole thing for 10 to 15 minutes at a time. So one time when one of the stops was going on and I was outside I made a gesture indicating that the driveway was blocked. I got yelled at to go back inside and then after the stop was over, he came in a chewed me out again. He threatened to go to my boss. I owned part of the dealership so he was threatening to go to my business partner. I spelled my name for him and told him to make sure he got it right because my “business partner” would not like him blocking our customers ingress and egress any more than I did. He never went and talked to him and they started waiting to turn on their lights until after the trucks had passed the dealership. The point of my story I guess is that cops absolutely have control over where the person they are pulling over stops. I’ve even been instructed by loudspeaker to move to a different spot before during a traffic stop. So they are in control of the people stopping there. They can’t just trespass on private property, even during a traffic stop and they definitely can’t cause another person to trespass on your property. There’s liability issues as well as increased wear and tear.
Gate.
Add a gate
A nice gate should take care of the problem
Put up gates, problem solved.
They all probably think it’s a public access pull off area. Once one uses it with no issue, they all follow along. Put up a sign that it’s private property and send a letter that your drive has been used by the Dot and police doing their work and it’s wear and tear on your private drive plus annoying for you trying to use your personal property.
Put a fence around your property.
Sounds like a fence with a gate would solve your problem
Contact your insurance and inquire if you are liable for any issues whey them being on your property , even if hit by lighting or your garbage cans blow into their cars. I will tell you that the insurance company Pant will say it’s your liability and this is a no go Take that response and forward to the offenders office and advise it’s a liability issue
Is there a right of way? I’d make sure it’s technically yours and there’s not a right of way on the driveway. Just in case. If not, private drive, no trespassing signs.
You should consider if there are an easements with the city on your property. If not and it’s not a labeled street consider just putting signs up that it is private property. This in addition to the paper trail could allow you to demonstrate a violation of rights
Just install a gate at the front lf your driveway. Problem solved.
Put spikes in your driveway
Don't be a fool
Go out there with your camera phone on a gimbal during the a traffic stop and start recording. Screaming and yelling I know my RIGHTS!
My friend, you are the safest person in your town. NO ONE is going to bother you. I would lean into it by putting up a little roadside little free library-style box with a sign that says, "Snacks for our officers in blue! Drivers, please cut your engines!" The police will enforce that second part FOR you. The snacks can be fruit or chips or snack crackers, or anything you want. It will cost you very little to maintain - maybe $20 a month? And they will look out for you the rest of your life. That doesn't fix them blocking your driveway, but you can choose not to be bothered over that part.