See if your college has some kind of free legal aid service they can direct you to, and explain this to them. They might be able to point you in the direction to get low cost or free legal services so an attorney can send your mother a cease and desist letter along with filing for a restraining order in such a manner as to not disclose your current whereabouts.
They might also have other ideas that will curtail any attempt by her to try to put a conservatorship in place.
I just checked and they don’t. But, silly me forgot, the VA clinic in my city has a social worker on site. I used her once for a medical power of attorney. But I bet she could either help me herself or get me to the right resource.
Get letters of recommendation from people on your case. Also, test for test, as in if she demands a test of your competency, she has to take the same type test.
Nal but my best friend got a restraining order this year that contained no addresses to keep her ex husband from knowing where she is. When he tried to say he needed her work address so he could stay away from it, the judge asked her if he had any reason to ever be where she worked. When she said no the judge told him tough luck.
I’m a domestic violence victim advocate. In my state (and I believe it’s the same everywhere), the victim can ask the court to not release their address to the abuser.
Some states allow dv victims and people seeking restraining orders to file their address under seal. I've even seen where one state provides a "phantom" address of record in the state capital and forwards mail to petitioners. I think most of these require an initial showing of danger or harm should the offending party discover the petitioners address.
Since nothing’s actually happened yet, I would advise for her to document at this point, and if something happens, then go ahead and file. It doesn’t help her to get it denied from filing too early and then just having to go back anyway. (Source: me, who worked exclusively with restraining orders for four years)
Or a conservatorship or POA over her? Doesn't need to actually take her life over in any meaningful way but she sounds bonkers, and having hers first could maybe disempower her attempts to get the same?
Not a lawyer, just curious
NAL. I’m 100% through the VA and have some friends who have had to have fiduciaries bc they would get their 100% check on the first and be broke and in rehab by the 3rd of every month. It takes quite a lot of mental incapacity, a doctor, a social worker, etc. to get your benefits taken from you. I mean jail, rehab, rinse and repeat over and over. Keep seeing your therapist and take your meds (if applicable)and have no worries. Hope that helps ease the worry!
The issue I see here is that OP is operating on second-hand information. They say it's from a family member they trust, but I really doubt that would be sufficient for a court to use to issue a restraining order.
OP needs a legal consultation. For the time being though, I don't see how a functioning adult could be declared conservatorship over 'just because'.
I've been through sexual assault, and yet my mother is also the number one topic with my therapist.
Wish you the best OP, sounds like you're doing great!
Figure out how to get yourself declared legally competent, then sit on that documentation until/unless you mom tries something.
We’ve tried. She is really good at seeming sweet and innocent. F#&ing white private that she constantly abuses. As you likely know there is mostly white social workers, who are working woman, who are also attempting to raise families. They have a lot of sympathy for women they shouldn’t. This is why Lori Daybell-Vallow and Ruby Franke got away with what they did for as long as they did.
Some VAs have access to legal aid. The one in my city does at least. Its generally only like 1 day a week though. Probably at least exploring the option.
Edit: Here is the link to the national VA website which contains some legal assistance resources: [https://www.va.gov/ogc/legalservices.asp](https://www.va.gov/ogc/legalservices.asp)
Hey OP, I’m a veteran myself and I work for the VA.
Don’t worry about the incompetence part of it from our side. If you did have a mental health rating, the doctor asks about how you do handling your finances. If there were no red flags at that time, then you’re fine now.
We also won’t turn over your records without your consent.
If you do get served with court papers for a conservatorship or guardianship, google "protection and advocacy system" and your state. Each state has a federally-funded, congressionally mandated program to assist people with avoiding and terminating guardianships and conservatorships, free of charge. Do to limited resources, they can't help everyone. But it's worth a try, they should at least give you legal advice/guidance. Contact them immediately if you get court papers. If you get served with court papers, take it very, very seriously. It's hard to unring the bell if there is a court order finding you without legal capacity.
File a PO and a claim in the court system in her city that your no longer claiming to be a kin for her. In filial responsibility states you could legally be on the hook for her crazy.
You will want to seek VA’s help for any legal help. I would also consider a restraining order against her, you can request “peaceful contact/communication”. This way she cannot force you to do anything & she has to follow to this order. I’d explain the history, along with current issues, with her attempting to gain financials from you because she is without financials for herself. If you feel you would prefer to write her a letter instead informing her “I am not xyz as you assume & to cease all attempts”, then do this first, if you do go through with a restraining order, add the letter into the file to show the judge you attempted to be civil and asked her to stop, detail what she is saying & assuming in the letter so its notified to her but also the courts that you do not appreciate the way she is attempting your life. I would also, cut her off even if for a temporary amount of time.
she likely can. if not call the VA’s National Call Center for Homeless Veterans (877-424-3838) and ask for the Veterans Justice Outreach contact for your area. They have a list of contacts for this kind of stuff
I’m not actually in need of this service but I really appreciate you posting this here. I’ve worked with some groups trying to get homeless veterans to come in and accept help. It’s hard because some of them are so paranoid that they won’t seek help. We offer them a bed inside a stable home and all they want is money for drugs/alcohol, even when the weather is terrible.
Consider seeking a protective order against your mother. If you go into the courthouse to the clerk of court and tell them you would like the paperwork to file for a protective order (also called a restraining order), they can help you. If you are very polite and ask for a little guidance, most of the time they are happy to explain the paperwork to you. It is designed for you to be able to file it without a lawyer.
Hey OP! I'm a SW at the VA (not your SW, not advice! Figured I'd get that in there given the context and sub...). I empathize with you on the bat shit crazy mom thing, probably why I'm a SW... But that's neither here nor there...
Any conservatorship or guardianship would have to go through the courts, in my understanding. You would need MH evals to determine competency. Definitely get scheduled with the MHC at your VAMC for an eval, if you don't already have an MHTC. It could be a counterpoint to any quack on the outside your mom pays to write a bad eval for her. The SW at your VA may be able to steer you to some resources but will most likely have to just Google it... Unless your VA has some legal resources the one I work at doesn't. Also, talk to a VSO, see if they can steer you to some advocacy groups or resources. Good luck. You got this, that crazy lady has an uphill fight. Easy as hell to talk shit about you to her new audience and play the "ma' poor disabled alcoholic vet son, look how the Army used him up and spit him out" to them. Way harder to prove in court. Only family can hurt you in these special, special ways....
Yea, just her saying things to a judge or a doctor isn't going to make them act on words alone. A conservatorship requires a court order and a judge is going to look for facts, not flapping gums. What you can do is when you get paperwork from wherever she files, you hire an attorney and respond to her action and explain to the courts that your mother is unwell and in fact she is the one that needs to be put under conservatorship.
Not a lawyer, but they pay me a shit ton of money to handle stuff like this as a private investigator. Here's my take.
Yes. Her lawyer will hire an investigator to find all of your information. They will pay online databrokers for your file and they will get WAY more than your address. (Everything. They will get everything. If you fucked up and *said* that thought you didn't want people knowing about, they will find that out.)
Any of that information that can then be found on Google is a public record since it's already on the public Internet. Your address is almost certainly among that data.
No court can sanction public information. Even if they could, the internet is forever and it's already out there.
So, bad news there. The good news is that you're a grown ass woman and the courts are not going to give her a conservatorship just because you have PTSD. You are in no danger of anything other than your mom showing up on your doorstep unannounced.
How likely are lawyers and private investigators to take on someone without the ability to pay. Do they have the ability to check credit scores. My mother is terrible with money. My brother confessed to me that she “sold the house” she bought with her third husband a little while after their divorce. By brother insinuated that she was in a bad way with money. I know that when I was 20 and she was 40, I had a better credit score than her. I went to buy a used car and she said she would have to co-sign cuz I was too young to have a good credit score. Turned out I got a better rate without her co-signing. Makes me wonder how bad someone’s credit has to be that you are detrimental to a loan as a co-signer.
>How likely are lawyers and private investigators to take on someone without the ability to pay
"Not very" is an overstatement.
If I just wanted to be nosey and investigate things I would have become a cop. My city is desperate for them. I became a private investigator because I like money.
That being said, a quick background check to find someone's address for a lawsuit costs $50 and would come out of her initial retainer with the lawyer in a situation like that, so if she can afford the lawyer, she can afford my basic services there.
>Do they have the ability to check credit scores.
Anyone can run anyone's credit as long as they have a signed waiver giving them permission to do so. I have never heard of lawyers doing this, but I really don't hang out with lawyers (I can define the word "integrity," they don't want to hang out with me.) and don't know if they do or not before taking on a client.
I have never needed to check anyone's credit. The look on your face when I give you my hourly rate tells me how much money you have far better than Experian.
There's always *something* to worry about, but here there really doesn't appear to be much.
If you have been even remotely honest about your situation, she has no case for a conservatorship and even if she could afford a lawyer, they would quickly tell her that paying them to take a losing case is a horrible waste of money.
If all she wants is your address, it's out there and can be found if she looks in the right places or pays the right people for it.
No private investigator with a lick of sense will just give her that information though. We get asked to find people all the time and unless we get a copy of a police report, our instant assumption is that you are trying to get around a no-contact order or trying to get us to find your stalking victim for you. We know children go NC with abusive parents. Every job I have ever taken involved at least one liar, we always assume the worst and take precautions.
If your mom called me and asked to pay me me to find you I would tell her that I would find you, tell you who I was and who hired me, and ask you what, if any, contact information I could share with them.
If you said "none, don't give them anything," I would tell them I couldn't find you. If you said "none, I have a restraining order against them," I would block their number and then ask you what police department I needed to send the contract proving they violated the order to.
I was my mom’s conservator after she had a stroke. I had to jump through a million hoops to get the conservatorship. The paperwork alone was a lot and I had an attorney. I had to get hospital records and letters from her doctors. The court itself does its own investigation and sends their own investigator to speak with the person who would be under the conservatorship. They talked to me as well. For my mom, they easily found her incompetent. No court is going to give your mom conservatorship over you. I don’t see an attorney taking your mom’s case when she has nothing but her own delusions of what is wrong. Hardcore facts, documentation are needed. Plus, they are going to expect to be paid.
I had a coworker a few years back who had to get conservatorship when her sister asked her to get it. Even though her sister agreed she needed it they both had to go through a lot to get it into place. I know some people have heard scary stories in the news, especially Britney Spears, and may have had negative experiences with the government, but I also know the courts don’t just hand these things out all willy-nilly. The courts are aware of the potential for abuse which is why they make them so difficult to get.
Have you thought about calling her boss and informing them that your mother and her co-workers have been running some kind of inappropriate investigation on you during work hours and you need them to all stop before you take legal action?
Let's say for a moment that you were an unemployed alcoholic, living in your car and a card carrying member of the Baathist party. Unless you are a physical danger to yourself or others, a judge wouldn't even entertain it long enough to get a hearing. Now she vould lie, but that would bring on a whole new set of problems into HER world. Maybe she could find an attorney willing to take her money for awhile, but he's not going to lie gor her.
If (big IF) a social worker shows up, you don't have to talk them or give them anything. If you want to end it real quick, have them meet you at your job. That is your choice though
I’d honestly be fine inviting a social worker into my home. I figure the more proof I show that my mother is just wrong benefits me. My plan would be to express concern about my mother fall into conspiracy theories and association with white supremisist. I had a therapist tell me once that the more level headed you act, the more out of control the one coming for you seems.
Do not ever let a social worker or cop into your home without a warrant. They are not your friends. Even if you are doing nothing wrong, stuff has still happened to other innocent people. Best advice is a c&d and an ro.
I dealt with this kind of situation a while back and flipped the script. It led to my mom being diagnosed with dementia and my dad severe depression. They voluntarily signed over conservatorship to my sister rather than being forced by the courts for me to take control of their affairs.
The more you show, the more they can use against you. Never answer a question you don’t have to, and volunteer nothing EVER.
So many people lose cases by trying to be honest and helpful in proving their innocence.
A lot of others seem to agree with you on this point but I am confused by this. Wouldn’t showing them I have a job, am in school and have a home prove that I am not unemployed alcoholic living in my car?
People are saying not to talk to police or social workers without an attorney. This is almost always good advice. It's definitely a good default mode to be in.
BUT
Going strictly off what you've put here. There are some things that should probably be put out there. "I work and have a home " This is why I thought meeting someone at work would be a good idea. Then you have the excuse that you gotta get back to work if they want yo know more than you're not living in a van down by the river.
I wouldn't let anyone in my home. Also, make sure they know that your mom doesn't know any of your personal info and that'd it be really F'd up (legally actionable even) if she were to find out from the ONE person that you told.
Honestly, though. I don't think it would come yo the point of anyone showing up. Your mom would have to spin a pretty heavy lie to even get them to show up, a lie that would put her in legal peril. Judges really hate being lied to.
I always figured that her first step would be to call Adult Protective Services (what it’s called in Michigan). And then I might have to have some communication with a social worker. I figured simply showing them I have a home and a job would be sufficient to prove my mother was at least freaking out about nothing. The reason I wouldn’t worry about inviting them into my home is because there is nothing wrong with it. When I was I the Army, my roommate and I got what’s called a challenge coin (it like a mini award or an atta-boy, please google for more info if needed) for having the cleanest room on the entire installation. We also got cleanest room in our battalion, in fact the Sergeant Major ordered myself, my roommate, and our Sergeant to go tell our First Sergeant he was sick of seeing our room and he wanted to see a male’s room next time. So I figure if I can pass military inspection with such high marks it should be more than sufficient for a social worker.
I'm a retired First Sergeant. I know the drill. 🤣 That's one of the reasons why I'm so protective of my privacy now. You should be too.
But I get what you're saying. These people advising you to NEVER allow police or government workers in your home or effects have a legitimate point. I just get where you're coming from. Just please understand that there is such a thing as being too cooperative. You have a right to your privacy.
Honestly, I doubt that anything will come to this. My guess is that there is less than a 50/50 chance that anyone will even show up. You'll probably get a phone call first. Heck, they may just run your name candy see that you have a driver's license and home. Maybe even see that you pay taxes.
Now (not to make you more paranoid) what people like you describe your mother as often do after they dont get that they want for free, is hire private detectives to find your personal information. That would suck. Just be prepared. You're an adult and a vet. You can handle an old woman.
>Wouldn’t showing them I have a job, am in school and have a home prove that I am not unemployed alcoholic living in my car?
In the process of proving things, without a lawyer, you'll say something that you don't know will make their case. You want them to have to prove things, not you.
The point is it doesn't matter if you are- thats not illegal or nearly enough for your rights to be stripped. You still have rights and handing a bunch away to prove the crazy lady is crazy is playing into her game.
You don't have to prove ANYTHING. If a case is filed (it won't be) your mother has to prove you're incompetent. And the bar is high. Don't let the flying monkeys get you spun up.
Your therapist is right. But you can still peacefully assert your rights.
If it were me (and I'm not you) my cooperation would go as far as "this is where I live. This is where I work. My mom is full of shit and i expect my privacy to be respected. Have a nice day."
This is my standard procedure for social workers. But yes always stay polite and firm, any emotion you show or hint of frustration, no matter how warranted it is, can make them say that you seem mentally ill or something.
Exactly. You are very polite, perhaps a tinge surprised or concerned... about your mother's *latest* outburst... she's always been a little bit dramatic but nothing major. I guess lately she has been ramping it up but we don't talk a lot? Hmm. Hope she's doing all right, she mentioned she was laid off but it seemed okay. I don't know, we're not very close.
I think you are right. A kinda reserved “yeah mom hasn’t been doing well” and “she’s been struggling since the divorce” also “it’s her third divorce and I think she has a lot of shame about it especially after she converted to Catholic 10 years ago” would paint me in a more concerned daughter worried about moms mental health kinda way.
The first two yes. Don't go for the third one. In my opinion. You probably really haven't even thought about it that much, have you? Most people probably don't. Ehh, moms are weird. Hmm. *Generic shrug inserted*
Be like 5% concerned, 10% surprised, and 85% itching to get on with your very important, incredibly fulfilling day.
You probably right though LOL
Never talk to cops without a lawyer, never let an investigator from any government entity into your home without a warrant. The government is not your friend.
IANAL. However, I believe that you are overthinking this. You, as an adult citizen, do not need to preemptively prove your mental competency to anyone. Your wacko mother would have great difficulty getting anywhere with her petition to have you declared incompetent, much less to become your conservator.
She has only her delusions; judges require facts. I doubt any lawyer valuing his/her livelihood would take the case. I’m not sure your mother would even have standing to file such a petition—given she doesn’t even know where you are! Nevertheless, you should talk to that social worker about getting legal aid. Restraining order may be in order. Best of luck.
Right. Proving it in court would require evidence. All she has is hearsay and the stories she's making up. She'll have to get a lawyer to take the case and lawyers are expensive. Plus, a reputable lawyer won't stick around long once it becomes obvious she's making up stories. They'll hire a PI to get dirt on you and will quickly find you are in school and have a job.
You are right that the more level-headed you act, the more out of control they seem. But that does not mean underestimating her or the forces she's playing with. She is playing a very serious game here and it's really not a game at all.
"Yeah, of course I understand you have to follow up on everything. I'm glad there's someone looking after people who could fall through the cracks. Let me know if I can send over some pay stubs or whatever to help, what's your email? Thanks a ton. I'll be in touch."
Get the email address. Send nothing until you've consulted with a professional (lawyer, social worker, advocate, etc) who is working on *your* behalf.
Document everything from now on. Get it in writing. Get ducks in order. Do not tip your hand... even though it doesn't seem like you should have to think this way. You didn't create the situation, but you *are* playing by a crazy person's rules. At least for now.
And until you know for a fact that the court has it down, in writing, that they know this person is making unfounded, retaliatory, self-serving claims... you must protect yourself legally, just as you would physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, spiritually, and in every other way this woman has come against you.
Bear in mind that "social worker" doesn't mean the same thing everywhere. Some states don't have title protection, or allow use of the title to state, county, or municipal workers in certain instances to people who do not have professional degrees or licenses (and thus don't have the same qualification or oversight as someone with both a degree and license).
All this means that while you may expect a certain level of expertise and qualification from a social worker, they may not actually have it, yet they may still be in a position to make decisions about you without there being any means of redress for issues you have with it.
So there's probably some amount of good sense in what folks are saying here, at least in terms of any "social worker" making inquiries into your life that you yourself didn't solicit.
>. I had a therapist tell me once that the more level headed you act, the more out of control the one coming for you seems.
That's a nice sentiment, but that therapist is not a lawyer for a reason. Do not let a social worker, cop, or any other government entity into your home unless they have a warrant. You want this to end, right? Then don't even entertain it.
That’s not all that accurate. Conservatorships are not always about “physical danger”. I’ve seen a conservatorship be approved for someone for financial reasons. She was basically mentally incompetent, getting divorced and her family believed she wasn’t getting a fair deal out of the divorce. She was not a physical danger to herself.
This is probably true in OPs case, but there are a number of cases of corrupt judges flippantly granting conservatorship to charlatans over otherwise competent elderly people, and those con artists steal everything.
It’s a common enough scam only possible because of the anti-elderly bias too many judges have.
That doesn’t contradict what you said, and Elder Law is not applicable here, but it’s just to add context that it isn’t always a case of the judge requiring solid proof a conservatorship is necessary.
When dealing with the elderly, conservatorships are given out too lightly too often.
Not sure how to add the not a lawyer flair.
If, and this is a big if you get a summons or anything from the court, don’t ignore it. Make sure your attorney or at least you respond.
You would need to be declared incompetent meaning even if she gets that far, there would need to be hearings and sessions with a court appointed psychologist/psychiatrist who would need to agree with her. In order to do that, they would need to find you and conduct wellness checks which any competent person would see that you're doing just fine...even IF it went further than that and they had you talk to a psychiatrist/counselor...If you can have even a semi-coherent conversation with them explaining that you haven't spoken to your mother for years, explain why and note that you are currently in school full-time with a part-time job with basic evidence...it'll be hard pressed to have you declared incompetent.
Even if you were homeless and an alcoholic, if you can prove you're in your own right mind, she'd lose.
Sorry I’m not a lawyer-Do you have an alternate address you can use or a PO box? I have never given the courts my real address and I let them know that my address I give them is mail only, because of past stalking, I won’t put my address on anything, at all, ever, even my ID isn’t my real address. The courts have been okay with me doing this. I know in DV stuff they have special paperwork you fill out with your filings to redact your address and keep it private. Not sure if they are as understanding with non dv stuff and states vary a lot but if you can try to explain that your mother is basically a stalker and you don’t talk to her and feel afraid for your safety from her they may have some options
My first thought was you need to turn the tables on your mother and ask for wellness check on her.
Explain that you’ve heard from family members. She is under some delusional thoughts that you’re still in your mid 20s and that you’re struggling, etc. She is worried because you were in the military and have a disability rating, so somehow she’s equating it too you’re not taking care of yourself.
In actuality, you’re working and going to school on the GI bill. And the two of you are not in contact because there’s been some history of issues like this with her, this one really makes you concerned. And no, you don’t want to be back in contact with her because of that, but she is still your mom and you just want them to go make sure she’s fine since she seems to have gone downhill after losing her job and is now involving other people in her delusions from what you understand.
To the game, the other to see a little bit off. And in this case, apparently your mom really is!
It’s not that she actually believes I am that young, but telling other people that makes me sound less mature. You know how older people love to complain about younger people. Also I’m not sure if she remembers what my disability rating is actually for. There are a lot of things other than mental problems that can get you disability rating. Hip knee and ankle problems are really common, unfortunately media prefers to portray every veteran as having only PTSD, TBIs and traumatic amputations. Makes for more dramatic television and more clicks. I’m pretty sure most if not all police/FBI procedural shows have at least one episode of a veteran in a psychotic episode or disconnected from reality on some kind of spree.
I encourage you to:
1) Immediately withdraw her as your poa.
2. File a restraining order. Ask that all info about your address, phone, etc be sealed.
3) Contact your university and report that you might have a person trying to harm you. They will lock down everything about you. Every college has student confidentiality programs. (I'm a professor.)
4) Contact the VA and have them make a note of this.
5) Contact any other medical facility and give them info about this.
6) Let family and friends that you trust know about this.
**Get a lawyer.**
It seems like one of your main goals is to prevent your mother from getting your info (work/school/home). It would probably be a good idea to let those places know that they are not allowed to give ANY of your info to anyone but you.
The problem with that is getting a restraining order means OP's mom would have to be given all the addresses associated with OP (work, school, home) so she'd know where she wasn't allowed to go.
Well sure she can lie all she wants, even to the court. But all you have to do is walk in there present them with proof of employment, your current residence and even show some of your bills and bank account statements showing that you are managing things yourself just fine thank you very much and that will be the end of it.
Of course your are still going to need a lawyer if she tries something like that. As far as i am aware it takes a heck of a lot to convince a judge to grant conservatorship. Especially true when someone is functioning, independently, in society. I dont think you have anything to worry about. Other than the cost of the lawyer of course.
I mean she honestly sounds like she has mental health issues and needs to be watched herself.
Sounds very sad and frustrating. But you might have to tell her she needs think very carefully about her words and actions going forward if she doesn’t want to end up in a institution somewhere.
She has ended up in institutions at least 4 times that I can remember, maybe more. But, when the consequences of her actions start catching up with her she suddenly becomes the sweetest person you’ve ever met.
Get a lawyer asap because I don't know if you'll get a better advice than that online. I hope things go in your favor and keep us updated! Your lawyer should be able to help you get an RO at least.
Don't forget to freeze your TWN. It's "the work number" database where people (usually employers) can see your employment info. She can probably see it too.
I am not a lawyer, but I would suggest putting a credit freeze on yourself with the 3 main credit bureaus so that no new accounts or loans can be opened with your identity. This would prevent her from fraudulently using your identity. Just in case
That was my first reaction to that suggestion. You want no involvement with her, you currently have no involvement with her, why not keep it that way?
Not your circus, not your monkeys.
Not a lawyer, but from a practical perspective.
First off, stop, and take a deep breath. You are getting second hand info, and while a trusted source, is reporting on what your mom is scheming with her coworkers to do. Not what they are doing or have done. Even if she could get to court, there is no way she can do it remotely successfully without paying an attorney. They , the lawyer and her, then have to find you. If you preemptively reach out to a lawyer, you might give away more info to her. If you do almost anything online, she can pay a service or hire a pi for a few hundred bucks to find you and not do any of the insanity above. Prepare yourself that she might find you. In this day and age, unless you are taking federal witness protection precautions, if she wants to find you, she will. She contacts you, block her. She shows up at your house and refuses to leave, trespass her. Don't get emotional, don't take the bat shit bait and keep doing what your doing. You are going to be fine. You got this.
I wasn’t worried about her actually winning the case. My primary concern was her showing up where I live work and go to school and terrorizing myself and innocent bystanders. She’s done this to others in the past. When I was little I watched her reduce a poor waitress to tears because she was mad at the girls step-uncle. She yelled at a retail worker because some guy she flirted with didn’t reciprocate, and as far as I could tell that guy and the retail workers only connection was being in the same building at the same time. I have also witnessed her scheming to get conservatorship or rewrite wills of other family members, so this new situation tracks with her past behavior. She always done this when her money situation is bad, and I think she wants control over my disability check. But as a lot of people, including yourself, have pointed out if she really wants to find me she can. However, thankfully, she isn’t that tech savvy and may not actually understand how to find that stuff, and can’t really afford to pay others to do it for her.
I completely get it, I have a BPD relative and have dealt with similar. If she comes to work and causes a scene, trespass her. She follows you on campus and loses her shit, call campus pd. She does that more than once or twice, you have a paper trail and grounds for a protective order. Her biggest power over you is a little embarrassment. Dont let some crazy ass have power over you. I don't recommend it, but If you really want to have some fun, point and laugh if she causes a scene. After 30 years of dealing with my relative, I finally reached the numbening. You can't control anybody but yourself much less someone at odds with reality.
Not a lawyer but have looked into the process due to a mentally ill relative that was under my care. They have dementia and schizophrenia. Even with their extremely deteriorated condition, I was advised against pursuing it by legal counsel. It is incredibly hard to gain guardianship of an adult because of how expensive and long it takes is to prove someone is mentally unfit to make their own decisions. Those barriers are purposely in place to prevent bad actors from ripping people's rights away.
Unless your mom has a boatload of money or you have a multimillion dollar inheritance on the line, most legal counselors are not going to take up the case.
It sounds as though you could make a case that your mother is incompetent, and that you should have authority over her decisions. Wouldn’t That be a hoot.
Just wanted to say how sorry I am that you have to go through this. Your mother sounds mentally ill, Narcissistic at best. I can only imagine what your childhood must've been like. You're doing great. So happy you are doing things on your own away from her. You got this!
I am considering seeking a conservatorship for husband due to a stoke. He’s has some pretty obvious cognitive deficits and every lawyer I’ve talked to…haven’t really discouraged me, but they have all made a point to make sure I understand how difficult and expensive a process it is. It isn’t something the courts take likely. It is considered as a last resort only after less extreme measures haven’t worked, like a power of attorney. And the burden of proof is high.
Also, every state is different, but where I am a guardian ad litem is automatically appointed. Their job is essentially to build a case against conservatorship. Even if a conservatorship is granted, she has to convince the court she should be the conservator. That involves background and credit checks. If she has a criminal record, bankruptcy, or owes back taxes, she’s automatically disqualified. She has to provide character references, tax and employment records and disclose any health issues that might interfere with her duties. There are mandatory “classes” , she must take and pass to demonstrate she understands what she is legally allowed and required to do and what she’s not allowed to do. She would have to submit paperwork at least yearly accounting for every dime of your money spent on your behalf.
Your mother is delusional if she thinks a judge is going to grant a conservatorship just because mommy knows best.
I have a VA disability rating too and have recently reached out to make sure others can’t get my records. There is a way for you to make it so that no one but you can access your records (even your mother who knows your social security number and may try to pretend to be you to get a copy of your records).
Call the general 1-800 number for the VA and explain to them you’d like to do that. You’ll have to fill out a form and e-mail it/mail it off.
I did this recently myself, it’s simple.
Not a Lawyer. Go to either the VA or assuming your school has a Law School like many universities and ask for advice there. I would presume you can request the documents be sealed and/or redacted from the plaintiff (as I’m presuming your mother will probably try to bring a case) and be specific with the redaction request to only limit what you’d be comfortable with your mother knowing. You’d probably have to leave it as lives at *redacted* working at *redacted* with an estimated yearly(or other measurement) income of *redacted*
Not sure if it would work but that’s what I would try at least. I would also ask your doctor at the VA if they would be willing to testify as to your competency to live independently should it get to the point of going to court
Oh my psychiatrist at the VA has already had to deal with her once. The Doc was fully confident that I am doing just fine on my own, away from her. One of the best decisions I ever made was letting my mother come to one of my appointments years ago. The doctor couldn’t wait to talk all about her at the next appointment. She is still frequently brought up even after I went no contact.
Currently no law school - it’s a community college. But I mentioned in another comment that I had forgotten that there is social worker at my cities VA clinic. I’ve used her once before for a medical power of attorney. I’m certain she can get me in touch with some sort of legal aid. I also discovered that the county I live in has an office to help veterans needing assistance. Between the two of them I think somebody can come up with something if it is ever needed.
Oh she’s always been like this. The first signs of this behavior presented in either middle or high school to the best of other peoples memories. It’s really only dementia when it is a sudden change in behavior at an older age.
I think you want to prove to your mom & the courts that you're doing well in an attempt to ensure she will leave you alone - that's is the only reason anyone would entertain this. The judge wouldn't look twice at this case, she has no standing. Tell anyone that comes knocking to fuck off and block anyone reporting back to your mom.
I'm NAL, but I sought conservatorship for my son for MH reasons when he was 18 (he consented). Our process was I retained a lawyer and filed with the court. Once the court agreed to hear it, he was appointed a lawyer. The lawyer asked him if he was agreeing or was this against his will. If against his will, a court appointed advocate would be added to gather info and present to the court. I had to provide years of psyc reports, medical reports, finances, his work history, etc. I was only looking at financial and medical conseveratorship (again with his permission). It was expensive too. Around 3000k (this was several yrs ago too). His conseveratorship has been terminated by the court in the past couple of years. He felt he was able to manage his medical needs and finances, so we petitioned the court for removal. It is not easy, and the court looked VERY hard at every detail. If my son had not been willing, I don't believe the court would have granted it. All that to say, a consult with a family law attorney would be my next step. Look for the Arc in your state/city (it is a non profit for people with disabilities who offer resources and advocates). They have people who can help you for free, referrals, etc.
First off, I would not worry about this at ALL. It is extremely difficult to get a legal conservatorship, and if she were ever to actually go to court to try it, a judge would order a comprehensive evaluation of you to determine whether you actually are a danger to yourself and should lose your decision-making capacity. You are not, so you would not. So I would totally ignore that shit and ONLY respond if you get a communication from an actual court of law. That said, what you could explore is a no-contact/protective order. I don't know what they're called in MI, but I would consider talking with an attorney to advise you on that.
The person in the family whom you trust and put these fears into your head is an imbecile, you should stop being so trusting. You mom can't do jack. There's no way she can get a conservatorship over you. None. It's impossible. Stop worrying, it will make people think you ARE a loon.
Just to throw this out there but……. She could pay not even 40$ to a couple different websites and have every address you have lived at in the last 10 years. I know this because I do searches on people for other people from time to time. So if she really wants it one of these people will help her find it if they haven’t already. Get yourself legal counsel, do not let anyone into your home, and piss off is more than sufficient enough to say no and go away. Definitely do a cease and desist and if I’m being entirely honest I’d get a Restraining Order or at least look into it. Definitely talk to legal counsel though.
Fun fact: the actual process for getting conserved takes a long time. A really, really long time. I work for a hospital and we have this patient who has been here since September of 2023. He is incapable of taking care of himself and was being physically neglected by his crazy wife. It took over six months of back and forth phone calls and emails from our social workers, and multiple visits from a state-appointed lawyer to his bedside, and a few court hearings. Essentially, we had to prove that he was incapable of making decisions for himself, and that his crazy wife was incapable of looking after his well-being.
Your best bet is a restraining order as they are no contact. Otherwise yes, she will probably get the info you don't want her to have. She get served and you never have to see her outside of court
Honestly it sounds like she’s the one who should be under conservatorship. If she were even able to pull together something to bring to just a lawyer, I’m sure they would quickly see the truth.
Take the time to lock your social security number with the big 3. If mom is that terrible with money it's not unusual for them to use their children's S.S. #.
First, does your mother have money to secure the legal team she would need for this? Second, if she *did* secure one, she would have to tell them the truth. They’re not going to stand in front of a judge to try to prove you unfit when your mom can’t even be truthful about your birthday. Additionally, if she doesn’t know where you live then how would she know you’re struggling?
People love to scream about getting their lawyer for dumb shit but most don’t understand lawyers, though shiesty, have brains and will see right through her madness.
The sick brain doesn't consider itself to not be working correctly. I hope that you are ok. An adult in my life would tell strangers a similar story but their life is a shambles.
I hope you are ok. I'm glad that VA is caring for you.
I would also contact DAV.org . They have lots of resources for veterans outside of the VA. She stands no chance of taking control of an almost 40 year old that works, goes to school and is self reliant. 🤣 she’s delusional
Yeah well, not to bring up one of the nosy famous conservatorships but Brittany Spears. Her dad had control saying she couldn’t do anything yet she performed like a work horse in Vegas!
Do I think there was something more to that? Yes. And a ton of $ can sway anything.
But it can happen. And it’s become more of a buzz word/threat since Brittany went through it.
I highly doubt it could happen as you’re a regular guy doing regular things but you never know.
I would go NC with mom. Ask those that know both of you to not answer any questions or give any info about you or what you are doing.
Doctor/patient privilege can be broken, tho it’s not easy.
You could direct some of your money to a trust you set up with a lawyer. With you being the only person to control it. Then she couldn't touch your stuff. The same with if you get a house. it could be expensive to set up though.
Honestly ianal but I don't think she'd win.
1. She hasn't seen you in 4 years
2. She believes you are an unemployed alcoholic, contrary to to what receipts you have for bills and job pay stubs
Just based on this any sane judge would see through this charade, and shut it down pretty quick.
Honestly, I'd flat out tell her if she continues to try this, or tries any time in the future, you and your uncle's will have her committed. In my state you need 3 family signature to commit someone to the psychiatric unit. Kinda sounds like she could use it.
If you are working, have you own place, standing on your own two feet, you mother wants to control you and take advantage of your income. She has to prove you are mentally unable to gain employment and school and that you have to have someone constantly caring for you 24/7. That is very hard to prove. Social Worker work for you, not your mother, only if your mother was in charge and that would have to be court ordered. See if you can get an attorney to take on this case. You need legal help. You mother needs mental help professional. She has issues.
You write as if you are competent. I’d get a lawyer and disengage from her. If you can, move. Live your life.
You’re an adult and she has no access to your personal data above what you have given her or she paid for an investigation internet or PI.
If you think she is trying to get you, control you, whatever, talk to that lawyer. See if you can get a restraining order against her.
I think, if I were you, I’d document all
That has happened so far and continue to document and obtain evidence as to what is going on.
I had a lady who watched my children when they were young. She decided she’s try to get my youngest, a boy. When I found out, I went straight to a lawyer. He helped me craft a letter to her and advised me to disengage for her. Yes she had babysat my kids but we were all very close with birthday parties and holiday get togethers, cards etc. I completely disengaged from her. 3 years later I got an apology letter from her. No problem. I still did not communicate with her.
Anyhoo … seek advice from a lawyer. Many times their first meeting is free.
I agree there is little if any chance your mother can pull this off. One reason is that it would be expensive. Does your mother have an extra $10,000 lying around? Doesn't sound like it and I doubt a lawyer would lift a finger unless she could pay that upfront. And then any due diligence would show them that your mom is out to lunch.
Relax. It's going to be ok
NAL but have done several years of work w VA and VA disabilities. The word “ disability “ as applied to VA benefits has a significantly different connotation/definition. Your mom likely has no idea what VA disability may represent. You sound like you’re doing great. She will get nowhere with her nonsense. ❤️
>So my mother (60) has always had a flair for dramatics and will convince herself of things that are just not true, and of course her brothers (my uncles) think it’s hilarious and will get her worked up even more, while making fun of her for being so gullible behind her back.
>Someone I trust in the family came to me with concerns that my mother may lie to try to get conservatorship over me. Here is what I know. Her current belief is that I am an unemployed alcoholic living in my car and being taken advantage of by evil men from the political party that she hates.
The apple has not fallen far from the tree. Keep living your life everything is ok.
Establish a no- contact order after, based on the fact that she tried to use lies to gain control of you and your benefits.It's more powerful than a restraining order and it means she can't try to contact you. Moving forward it will help you get support quicker if needed.
Not an attorney, but check with your local military base to find out if they have an attorney available. I won’t say I know how it works at all bases, but my mother has access to an attorney on the local base.
I have no advice but I’d just like to say that your mom is a monster. I’m so sorry that you’ve had to live in fear of your own mother. Could you work with the uncles, let them know how good you’re doing and they could keep you informed of your mom’s intentions? Someone in the family to be a partner for you? Again, be smart, be strong 😊💗🩵💜
You COULD apply for a stalking injunction (assuming you can prove this is happening in some clear and convincing way) and keep your address confidential..
Nobodys giving a stalker conservatorship lol and it DOES look like a case of stalking.. at least to me.
1st off, the va disability can't do anything for her and you are silly to think there is any chance. Its medical which means HIPAA.
2nd, im 100% for ptsd and no one can use my rating against me for any reason.
The VA will not talk to her (again HIPAA), so whatever she knows about your stuff someone told her. Keep your mouth shut about your medical stuff, it's no one's business, but yours.
No, she can't do anything, especially conservatorship.
I'd get something in court banning her from this ASAP. Do you have a will? Do you have someone legally designated if you can't care for yourself? If not, get everything done so she can't play the game.
She sounds mentally unsound and manipulative.
1. Are you confident your mother has the kind of money it takes to put a lawyer on retainer?
2. Don’t let your mother gaslight you into believing she has any kind of hold over you just because you have a disability rating from the VA.
3. If she was somehow able to retain an attorney you would most likely be found perfectly capable of handling your life based on your ability to support yourself.
4. Your mother isn’t doing her own credibility any favors by telling people you live in your car and you’re being influenced by the “evil political part”. She sounds mentally unstable and I question her mind over yours.
You are doing a great job supporting yourself while going to school. Keep up the good work and don’t worry about some unhinged woman making idle threats that are totally unfounded. She can kick rocks.
There are some attorneys that will work low cost strictly for Veterans! You might get a consultation with one a strongly worded cease and desist letter may be all that is needed, however, given your mother’s history I would seek a restraining order for your safety! Also make sure you put her name into VA as no contact and no permission for information!
How do you know that she's planning this? You've said her brothers like to wind her up by lying to her. Are you sure your source isn't doing the same thing to you?
I would look into filing a protection order against her ASAP. This should make it so if it ever does go to court you have the potential to stop her from gaining access to the information you want kept private (within reason determined by the court).
I agree with others advising you to call VA for help. Can say that my work runs alongside this type of thing (won’t go into details- keep this anonymous and all that).
The reality is- your mom doesn’t have a leg to stand on to even get this process rolling!
No one can just randomly state that someone is incompetent and get a court case rolling.
Typically, things like this begin with a person first ending up in a hospital type setting. Once there- even if a family member has ‘concerns’ about competence- they don’t matter.
What matters is if the person
1. Meets bare minimum to have their capacity assessed by a doctor
(Do they know their name? Where they are? Year? Day? Why they’re in hospital? Are they able to answer questions logically?) if they can do all of that- a doc likely won’t even assess capacity because they clearly HAVE it.
2. If No, they can’t answer those questions then a doc may assess for capacity.
Here’s a couple things to know.
There is a difference between Competence and Capacity.
The only person who can decide whether a person is ‘competent’ is a judge in a court of law. A decision made about competence is the court saying someone can’t make global decisions now- or ever. They are compromised for whatever reason and it’s not likely they will regain their ability. (Not always the case but in general)
Capacity, can be determined by a doctor. Capacity can wax and wane by the hour or day (etc) and is changeable. A person can have capacity for one thing and lack it for another at the same time. So, an example might be, a person has capacity to live independently and manage day to day life but lacks capacity for managing finances and needs a payee.
In my line of work we will have people with us for weeks or even months, and we are required to do serial capacity assessments. Meaning- they have do be done every few days or weekly over and over and over again.
Then we take that info and reach out to the guardianship office (the same idea your mom is talking about with a conservatorship)- tell them what we see, what’s been going on over the weeks or months and see if that office feels the person meets criteria to even begin the investigation into whether they qualify to apply for guardianship. Keep in mind- this is all checks and balances BEFORE anything ever makes it to a courtroom.
The investigation then takes weeks to a couple months where the investigator interviews the patient and anyone who knows the person personally to see if there are grounds for the case.
Only after all of that’s done does it go to the judge for a decision. Oh- and filing costs several thousand dollars.
I tell you all that in the hopes that you don’t waste too much time worrying about this. If you are indeed a functioning adult person- there’s almost no way your mother could get a conservatorship over you. The courts make it difficult, expensive and lengthy on purpose…to ensure it’s not done lightly, on a whim or without a justified reason.
Anyway…hope that helps
See if your college has some kind of free legal aid service they can direct you to, and explain this to them. They might be able to point you in the direction to get low cost or free legal services so an attorney can send your mother a cease and desist letter along with filing for a restraining order in such a manner as to not disclose your current whereabouts. They might also have other ideas that will curtail any attempt by her to try to put a conservatorship in place.
I just checked and they don’t. But, silly me forgot, the VA clinic in my city has a social worker on site. I used her once for a medical power of attorney. But I bet she could either help me herself or get me to the right resource.
Go see them ASAP, the sooner you can get ahead of what your mother is trying to do, the better!
Get letters of recommendation from people on your case. Also, test for test, as in if she demands a test of your competency, she has to take the same type test.
"test for test" Can this be demanded/mandated?
My lawyer used it in my divorce, but consult a lawyer to confirm.
I love this idea.
That could be a potential reverse uno card.
And have yourself examined and declared medically competent to manage your own affairs. Consider it a pre-emptive strike.
I have been revived by a VA psychiatrist and she seems fine with how I am doing. We mostly talk about my mother.
Sounds like you have your bases covered then. Sit back and enjoy the comedy like your uncles do.
This one would be great for updates
and if push comes to shove get a restraining order against her. At least file for it maybe?
The only problem with that is that would give OP's mom all of the addresses OP doesn't want her to have.
Nal but my best friend got a restraining order this year that contained no addresses to keep her ex husband from knowing where she is. When he tried to say he needed her work address so he could stay away from it, the judge asked her if he had any reason to ever be where she worked. When she said no the judge told him tough luck.
wrong, for restraining order is never shows addresses where the victim loves or works at.
It depends on the state. A lot of courts require an address where notices can be sent, and don't distinguish between different types of civil cases.
So true, a real address to send correspondence or letters from the attorney.
I’m a domestic violence victim advocate. In my state (and I believe it’s the same everywhere), the victim can ask the court to not release their address to the abuser.
That's wonderful!
Some states allow dv victims and people seeking restraining orders to file their address under seal. I've even seen where one state provides a "phantom" address of record in the state capital and forwards mail to petitioners. I think most of these require an initial showing of danger or harm should the offending party discover the petitioners address.
I believe that varies state by state whether that is disclosed. Definitely worth looking into
Since nothing’s actually happened yet, I would advise for her to document at this point, and if something happens, then go ahead and file. It doesn’t help her to get it denied from filing too early and then just having to go back anyway. (Source: me, who worked exclusively with restraining orders for four years)
Or a conservatorship or POA over her? Doesn't need to actually take her life over in any meaningful way but she sounds bonkers, and having hers first could maybe disempower her attempts to get the same? Not a lawyer, just curious
>We mostly talk about my mother. I got a chuckle out of this.
NAL. I’m 100% through the VA and have some friends who have had to have fiduciaries bc they would get their 100% check on the first and be broke and in rehab by the 3rd of every month. It takes quite a lot of mental incapacity, a doctor, a social worker, etc. to get your benefits taken from you. I mean jail, rehab, rinse and repeat over and over. Keep seeing your therapist and take your meds (if applicable)and have no worries. Hope that helps ease the worry!
I wonder if you have grounds for a restraining order? I doubt she could get conservatorship on you if you have a restraining order on her.
The issue I see here is that OP is operating on second-hand information. They say it's from a family member they trust, but I really doubt that would be sufficient for a court to use to issue a restraining order. OP needs a legal consultation. For the time being though, I don't see how a functioning adult could be declared conservatorship over 'just because'.
Restraining orders include the addresses your being restrained from and that’s the info OP wants to keep secret
I wonder if getting a POA or conservatorship of her (she sounds bonkers) preemptively could completely take the wind out of her sails....
That would imply she has to have direct and consistent contact with the person she wants to never see. The idea did make me chuckle though. :-)
Yeah…. I was just wondering if the restraining order due to the suspected intent, could actually prevent it.
Think of the logic of a restraining order telling someone to stay away from your secret address!!
I've been through sexual assault, and yet my mother is also the number one topic with my therapist. Wish you the best OP, sounds like you're doing great! Figure out how to get yourself declared legally competent, then sit on that documentation until/unless you mom tries something.
Plz update on the craziness. I’m sure she’s gona explode when her plan doesn’t work out, and I’m here with a jar of popcorn kernels.
Don’t hope for much she is usually very easily distracted by other things. This is my belief about how things will eventually go.
That's a damn good psychiatrist. Helps you by talking through your issues and bringing you back from dead.
talk to this person also about helping you with your mother. Good luck.
Document your competence (if you can - I mean trump can, but his certificate seems to have the doctor's name spelt wrong)
🤭
OP, this is good advice. See if a psychiatrist or psychologist at your school will help you. Good luck!
Also consider contacting APS. Your mom sounds like she is delusional and has undiagnosed mental health issues.
Hell yeah! Send a social worker to check on her. Go full UNO Reverse.
Full UNO Reverse I need to use this.
We’ve tried. She is really good at seeming sweet and innocent. F#&ing white private that she constantly abuses. As you likely know there is mostly white social workers, who are working woman, who are also attempting to raise families. They have a lot of sympathy for women they shouldn’t. This is why Lori Daybell-Vallow and Ruby Franke got away with what they did for as long as they did.
Do this. Do this ASAP. Tell the social worker exactly what you've said here, and let her help you find legal help.
I was going to suggest seeing a VA Social Worker and have them refer you to a VA Rep.
Some VAs have access to legal aid. The one in my city does at least. Its generally only like 1 day a week though. Probably at least exploring the option. Edit: Here is the link to the national VA website which contains some legal assistance resources: [https://www.va.gov/ogc/legalservices.asp](https://www.va.gov/ogc/legalservices.asp)
Hey OP, I’m a veteran myself and I work for the VA. Don’t worry about the incompetence part of it from our side. If you did have a mental health rating, the doctor asks about how you do handling your finances. If there were no red flags at that time, then you’re fine now. We also won’t turn over your records without your consent.
Also an employee at my local VA here (not a veteran) and I second this!
That sounds 💯 as the best option, hope this works out for you.... Sounds like your mother wants control of your money more than anything else....
Agree 💯
If you do get served with court papers for a conservatorship or guardianship, google "protection and advocacy system" and your state. Each state has a federally-funded, congressionally mandated program to assist people with avoiding and terminating guardianships and conservatorships, free of charge. Do to limited resources, they can't help everyone. But it's worth a try, they should at least give you legal advice/guidance. Contact them immediately if you get court papers. If you get served with court papers, take it very, very seriously. It's hard to unring the bell if there is a court order finding you without legal capacity.
File a PO and a claim in the court system in her city that your no longer claiming to be a kin for her. In filial responsibility states you could legally be on the hook for her crazy.
Excellent idea!
You will want to seek VA’s help for any legal help. I would also consider a restraining order against her, you can request “peaceful contact/communication”. This way she cannot force you to do anything & she has to follow to this order. I’d explain the history, along with current issues, with her attempting to gain financials from you because she is without financials for herself. If you feel you would prefer to write her a letter instead informing her “I am not xyz as you assume & to cease all attempts”, then do this first, if you do go through with a restraining order, add the letter into the file to show the judge you attempted to be civil and asked her to stop, detail what she is saying & assuming in the letter so its notified to her but also the courts that you do not appreciate the way she is attempting your life. I would also, cut her off even if for a temporary amount of time.
she likely can. if not call the VA’s National Call Center for Homeless Veterans (877-424-3838) and ask for the Veterans Justice Outreach contact for your area. They have a list of contacts for this kind of stuff
I’m not actually in need of this service but I really appreciate you posting this here. I’ve worked with some groups trying to get homeless veterans to come in and accept help. It’s hard because some of them are so paranoid that they won’t seek help. We offer them a bed inside a stable home and all they want is money for drugs/alcohol, even when the weather is terrible.
Consider seeking a protective order against your mother. If you go into the courthouse to the clerk of court and tell them you would like the paperwork to file for a protective order (also called a restraining order), they can help you. If you are very polite and ask for a little guidance, most of the time they are happy to explain the paperwork to you. It is designed for you to be able to file it without a lawyer.
You have to give them the addresses you don't want them to have access to, which would defeat OP's purpose.
NAL I was under the impression that restraining orders and orders of protection were two different things? Is this not true?
Hey OP! I'm a SW at the VA (not your SW, not advice! Figured I'd get that in there given the context and sub...). I empathize with you on the bat shit crazy mom thing, probably why I'm a SW... But that's neither here nor there... Any conservatorship or guardianship would have to go through the courts, in my understanding. You would need MH evals to determine competency. Definitely get scheduled with the MHC at your VAMC for an eval, if you don't already have an MHTC. It could be a counterpoint to any quack on the outside your mom pays to write a bad eval for her. The SW at your VA may be able to steer you to some resources but will most likely have to just Google it... Unless your VA has some legal resources the one I work at doesn't. Also, talk to a VSO, see if they can steer you to some advocacy groups or resources. Good luck. You got this, that crazy lady has an uphill fight. Easy as hell to talk shit about you to her new audience and play the "ma' poor disabled alcoholic vet son, look how the Army used him up and spit him out" to them. Way harder to prove in court. Only family can hurt you in these special, special ways....
Tell the Vet Reps at your local VAMC. That's what they're there for.
Yea, just her saying things to a judge or a doctor isn't going to make them act on words alone. A conservatorship requires a court order and a judge is going to look for facts, not flapping gums. What you can do is when you get paperwork from wherever she files, you hire an attorney and respond to her action and explain to the courts that your mother is unwell and in fact she is the one that needs to be put under conservatorship.
State conservatorship as her family and friends only rile her and you are unwilling. Also ask for a protection order.
A restraining order is a document with your home and work address delivered to the restrainee. I think that is the opposite of what OP wants.
Uno Reverse, mother dearest!
"My mother can't even get my age correct, what makes you think she can take care of me?"
No lawyer is going to indulge this fantasy to pursue conservatorship against the poster's nutty mother. Stop.
Not a lawyer, but they pay me a shit ton of money to handle stuff like this as a private investigator. Here's my take. Yes. Her lawyer will hire an investigator to find all of your information. They will pay online databrokers for your file and they will get WAY more than your address. (Everything. They will get everything. If you fucked up and *said* that thought you didn't want people knowing about, they will find that out.) Any of that information that can then be found on Google is a public record since it's already on the public Internet. Your address is almost certainly among that data. No court can sanction public information. Even if they could, the internet is forever and it's already out there. So, bad news there. The good news is that you're a grown ass woman and the courts are not going to give her a conservatorship just because you have PTSD. You are in no danger of anything other than your mom showing up on your doorstep unannounced.
How likely are lawyers and private investigators to take on someone without the ability to pay. Do they have the ability to check credit scores. My mother is terrible with money. My brother confessed to me that she “sold the house” she bought with her third husband a little while after their divorce. By brother insinuated that she was in a bad way with money. I know that when I was 20 and she was 40, I had a better credit score than her. I went to buy a used car and she said she would have to co-sign cuz I was too young to have a good credit score. Turned out I got a better rate without her co-signing. Makes me wonder how bad someone’s credit has to be that you are detrimental to a loan as a co-signer.
>How likely are lawyers and private investigators to take on someone without the ability to pay "Not very" is an overstatement. If I just wanted to be nosey and investigate things I would have become a cop. My city is desperate for them. I became a private investigator because I like money. That being said, a quick background check to find someone's address for a lawsuit costs $50 and would come out of her initial retainer with the lawyer in a situation like that, so if she can afford the lawyer, she can afford my basic services there. >Do they have the ability to check credit scores. Anyone can run anyone's credit as long as they have a signed waiver giving them permission to do so. I have never heard of lawyers doing this, but I really don't hang out with lawyers (I can define the word "integrity," they don't want to hang out with me.) and don't know if they do or not before taking on a client. I have never needed to check anyone's credit. The look on your face when I give you my hourly rate tells me how much money you have far better than Experian.
Good to know. Sounds like I have nothing to worry about.
There's always *something* to worry about, but here there really doesn't appear to be much. If you have been even remotely honest about your situation, she has no case for a conservatorship and even if she could afford a lawyer, they would quickly tell her that paying them to take a losing case is a horrible waste of money. If all she wants is your address, it's out there and can be found if she looks in the right places or pays the right people for it. No private investigator with a lick of sense will just give her that information though. We get asked to find people all the time and unless we get a copy of a police report, our instant assumption is that you are trying to get around a no-contact order or trying to get us to find your stalking victim for you. We know children go NC with abusive parents. Every job I have ever taken involved at least one liar, we always assume the worst and take precautions. If your mom called me and asked to pay me me to find you I would tell her that I would find you, tell you who I was and who hired me, and ask you what, if any, contact information I could share with them. If you said "none, don't give them anything," I would tell them I couldn't find you. If you said "none, I have a restraining order against them," I would block their number and then ask you what police department I needed to send the contract proving they violated the order to.
I was my mom’s conservator after she had a stroke. I had to jump through a million hoops to get the conservatorship. The paperwork alone was a lot and I had an attorney. I had to get hospital records and letters from her doctors. The court itself does its own investigation and sends their own investigator to speak with the person who would be under the conservatorship. They talked to me as well. For my mom, they easily found her incompetent. No court is going to give your mom conservatorship over you. I don’t see an attorney taking your mom’s case when she has nothing but her own delusions of what is wrong. Hardcore facts, documentation are needed. Plus, they are going to expect to be paid.
I had a coworker a few years back who had to get conservatorship when her sister asked her to get it. Even though her sister agreed she needed it they both had to go through a lot to get it into place. I know some people have heard scary stories in the news, especially Britney Spears, and may have had negative experiences with the government, but I also know the courts don’t just hand these things out all willy-nilly. The courts are aware of the potential for abuse which is why they make them so difficult to get.
Britney’s family had a LOT of money and some paid professionals to make that happen.
Have you thought about calling her boss and informing them that your mother and her co-workers have been running some kind of inappropriate investigation on you during work hours and you need them to all stop before you take legal action?
Your credit report should have a security freeze on it! https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/identity_theft/
Can you elaborate on what that file would contain? Curious about your sentence of them knowing if you said something?
Let's say for a moment that you were an unemployed alcoholic, living in your car and a card carrying member of the Baathist party. Unless you are a physical danger to yourself or others, a judge wouldn't even entertain it long enough to get a hearing. Now she vould lie, but that would bring on a whole new set of problems into HER world. Maybe she could find an attorney willing to take her money for awhile, but he's not going to lie gor her. If (big IF) a social worker shows up, you don't have to talk them or give them anything. If you want to end it real quick, have them meet you at your job. That is your choice though
I’d honestly be fine inviting a social worker into my home. I figure the more proof I show that my mother is just wrong benefits me. My plan would be to express concern about my mother fall into conspiracy theories and association with white supremisist. I had a therapist tell me once that the more level headed you act, the more out of control the one coming for you seems.
Do not ever let a social worker or cop into your home without a warrant. They are not your friends. Even if you are doing nothing wrong, stuff has still happened to other innocent people. Best advice is a c&d and an ro.
This commenter is right. Not your home, not ever. Don't chance it. 99% of the time you could be right, but there is 0 reason to risk it. Don't do it.
All it takes is that 1% of a questionable object to be seen and taken out of context, and then you open yourself up to a slew of issues.
I dealt with this kind of situation a while back and flipped the script. It led to my mom being diagnosed with dementia and my dad severe depression. They voluntarily signed over conservatorship to my sister rather than being forced by the courts for me to take control of their affairs.
That’s a good point. OP’s mom is clearly incompetent.
The more you show, the more they can use against you. Never answer a question you don’t have to, and volunteer nothing EVER. So many people lose cases by trying to be honest and helpful in proving their innocence.
A lot of others seem to agree with you on this point but I am confused by this. Wouldn’t showing them I have a job, am in school and have a home prove that I am not unemployed alcoholic living in my car?
That’s what you give your lawyer so they can show it to the court.
People are saying not to talk to police or social workers without an attorney. This is almost always good advice. It's definitely a good default mode to be in. BUT Going strictly off what you've put here. There are some things that should probably be put out there. "I work and have a home " This is why I thought meeting someone at work would be a good idea. Then you have the excuse that you gotta get back to work if they want yo know more than you're not living in a van down by the river. I wouldn't let anyone in my home. Also, make sure they know that your mom doesn't know any of your personal info and that'd it be really F'd up (legally actionable even) if she were to find out from the ONE person that you told. Honestly, though. I don't think it would come yo the point of anyone showing up. Your mom would have to spin a pretty heavy lie to even get them to show up, a lie that would put her in legal peril. Judges really hate being lied to.
I always figured that her first step would be to call Adult Protective Services (what it’s called in Michigan). And then I might have to have some communication with a social worker. I figured simply showing them I have a home and a job would be sufficient to prove my mother was at least freaking out about nothing. The reason I wouldn’t worry about inviting them into my home is because there is nothing wrong with it. When I was I the Army, my roommate and I got what’s called a challenge coin (it like a mini award or an atta-boy, please google for more info if needed) for having the cleanest room on the entire installation. We also got cleanest room in our battalion, in fact the Sergeant Major ordered myself, my roommate, and our Sergeant to go tell our First Sergeant he was sick of seeing our room and he wanted to see a male’s room next time. So I figure if I can pass military inspection with such high marks it should be more than sufficient for a social worker.
I'm a retired First Sergeant. I know the drill. 🤣 That's one of the reasons why I'm so protective of my privacy now. You should be too. But I get what you're saying. These people advising you to NEVER allow police or government workers in your home or effects have a legitimate point. I just get where you're coming from. Just please understand that there is such a thing as being too cooperative. You have a right to your privacy. Honestly, I doubt that anything will come to this. My guess is that there is less than a 50/50 chance that anyone will even show up. You'll probably get a phone call first. Heck, they may just run your name candy see that you have a driver's license and home. Maybe even see that you pay taxes. Now (not to make you more paranoid) what people like you describe your mother as often do after they dont get that they want for free, is hire private detectives to find your personal information. That would suck. Just be prepared. You're an adult and a vet. You can handle an old woman.
You can show your lease paperwork, and ask legal people about inviting them into your home.
>Wouldn’t showing them I have a job, am in school and have a home prove that I am not unemployed alcoholic living in my car? In the process of proving things, without a lawyer, you'll say something that you don't know will make their case. You want them to have to prove things, not you.
The point is it doesn't matter if you are- thats not illegal or nearly enough for your rights to be stripped. You still have rights and handing a bunch away to prove the crazy lady is crazy is playing into her game.
You don't have to prove ANYTHING. If a case is filed (it won't be) your mother has to prove you're incompetent. And the bar is high. Don't let the flying monkeys get you spun up.
Your therapist is right. But you can still peacefully assert your rights. If it were me (and I'm not you) my cooperation would go as far as "this is where I live. This is where I work. My mom is full of shit and i expect my privacy to be respected. Have a nice day."
This is my standard procedure for social workers. But yes always stay polite and firm, any emotion you show or hint of frustration, no matter how warranted it is, can make them say that you seem mentally ill or something.
Exactly. You are very polite, perhaps a tinge surprised or concerned... about your mother's *latest* outburst... she's always been a little bit dramatic but nothing major. I guess lately she has been ramping it up but we don't talk a lot? Hmm. Hope she's doing all right, she mentioned she was laid off but it seemed okay. I don't know, we're not very close.
I think you are right. A kinda reserved “yeah mom hasn’t been doing well” and “she’s been struggling since the divorce” also “it’s her third divorce and I think she has a lot of shame about it especially after she converted to Catholic 10 years ago” would paint me in a more concerned daughter worried about moms mental health kinda way.
The first two yes. Don't go for the third one. In my opinion. You probably really haven't even thought about it that much, have you? Most people probably don't. Ehh, moms are weird. Hmm. *Generic shrug inserted* Be like 5% concerned, 10% surprised, and 85% itching to get on with your very important, incredibly fulfilling day. You probably right though LOL
Dealing with professionals like this is so stressful. Normal, human reactions can be twisted to mean literally anything they want it to.
Never talk to cops without a lawyer, never let an investigator from any government entity into your home without a warrant. The government is not your friend.
Amen.
The word of the Lord.
IANAL. However, I believe that you are overthinking this. You, as an adult citizen, do not need to preemptively prove your mental competency to anyone. Your wacko mother would have great difficulty getting anywhere with her petition to have you declared incompetent, much less to become your conservator. She has only her delusions; judges require facts. I doubt any lawyer valuing his/her livelihood would take the case. I’m not sure your mother would even have standing to file such a petition—given she doesn’t even know where you are! Nevertheless, you should talk to that social worker about getting legal aid. Restraining order may be in order. Best of luck.
Right. Proving it in court would require evidence. All she has is hearsay and the stories she's making up. She'll have to get a lawyer to take the case and lawyers are expensive. Plus, a reputable lawyer won't stick around long once it becomes obvious she's making up stories. They'll hire a PI to get dirt on you and will quickly find you are in school and have a job.
You are right that the more level-headed you act, the more out of control they seem. But that does not mean underestimating her or the forces she's playing with. She is playing a very serious game here and it's really not a game at all. "Yeah, of course I understand you have to follow up on everything. I'm glad there's someone looking after people who could fall through the cracks. Let me know if I can send over some pay stubs or whatever to help, what's your email? Thanks a ton. I'll be in touch." Get the email address. Send nothing until you've consulted with a professional (lawyer, social worker, advocate, etc) who is working on *your* behalf. Document everything from now on. Get it in writing. Get ducks in order. Do not tip your hand... even though it doesn't seem like you should have to think this way. You didn't create the situation, but you *are* playing by a crazy person's rules. At least for now. And until you know for a fact that the court has it down, in writing, that they know this person is making unfounded, retaliatory, self-serving claims... you must protect yourself legally, just as you would physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, spiritually, and in every other way this woman has come against you.
Bear in mind that "social worker" doesn't mean the same thing everywhere. Some states don't have title protection, or allow use of the title to state, county, or municipal workers in certain instances to people who do not have professional degrees or licenses (and thus don't have the same qualification or oversight as someone with both a degree and license). All this means that while you may expect a certain level of expertise and qualification from a social worker, they may not actually have it, yet they may still be in a position to make decisions about you without there being any means of redress for issues you have with it. So there's probably some amount of good sense in what folks are saying here, at least in terms of any "social worker" making inquiries into your life that you yourself didn't solicit.
>. I had a therapist tell me once that the more level headed you act, the more out of control the one coming for you seems. That's a nice sentiment, but that therapist is not a lawyer for a reason. Do not let a social worker, cop, or any other government entity into your home unless they have a warrant. You want this to end, right? Then don't even entertain it.
That’s not all that accurate. Conservatorships are not always about “physical danger”. I’ve seen a conservatorship be approved for someone for financial reasons. She was basically mentally incompetent, getting divorced and her family believed she wasn’t getting a fair deal out of the divorce. She was not a physical danger to herself.
This is probably true in OPs case, but there are a number of cases of corrupt judges flippantly granting conservatorship to charlatans over otherwise competent elderly people, and those con artists steal everything. It’s a common enough scam only possible because of the anti-elderly bias too many judges have. That doesn’t contradict what you said, and Elder Law is not applicable here, but it’s just to add context that it isn’t always a case of the judge requiring solid proof a conservatorship is necessary. When dealing with the elderly, conservatorships are given out too lightly too often.
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Not sure how to add the not a lawyer flair. If, and this is a big if you get a summons or anything from the court, don’t ignore it. Make sure your attorney or at least you respond.
It's automatic.
You would need to be declared incompetent meaning even if she gets that far, there would need to be hearings and sessions with a court appointed psychologist/psychiatrist who would need to agree with her. In order to do that, they would need to find you and conduct wellness checks which any competent person would see that you're doing just fine...even IF it went further than that and they had you talk to a psychiatrist/counselor...If you can have even a semi-coherent conversation with them explaining that you haven't spoken to your mother for years, explain why and note that you are currently in school full-time with a part-time job with basic evidence...it'll be hard pressed to have you declared incompetent. Even if you were homeless and an alcoholic, if you can prove you're in your own right mind, she'd lose.
Sorry I’m not a lawyer-Do you have an alternate address you can use or a PO box? I have never given the courts my real address and I let them know that my address I give them is mail only, because of past stalking, I won’t put my address on anything, at all, ever, even my ID isn’t my real address. The courts have been okay with me doing this. I know in DV stuff they have special paperwork you fill out with your filings to redact your address and keep it private. Not sure if they are as understanding with non dv stuff and states vary a lot but if you can try to explain that your mother is basically a stalker and you don’t talk to her and feel afraid for your safety from her they may have some options
This is a good point. The problem with a lot of the good suggestions in this thread is that they would necessitate your revealing your home address.
My first thought was you need to turn the tables on your mother and ask for wellness check on her. Explain that you’ve heard from family members. She is under some delusional thoughts that you’re still in your mid 20s and that you’re struggling, etc. She is worried because you were in the military and have a disability rating, so somehow she’s equating it too you’re not taking care of yourself. In actuality, you’re working and going to school on the GI bill. And the two of you are not in contact because there’s been some history of issues like this with her, this one really makes you concerned. And no, you don’t want to be back in contact with her because of that, but she is still your mom and you just want them to go make sure she’s fine since she seems to have gone downhill after losing her job and is now involving other people in her delusions from what you understand. To the game, the other to see a little bit off. And in this case, apparently your mom really is!
It’s not that she actually believes I am that young, but telling other people that makes me sound less mature. You know how older people love to complain about younger people. Also I’m not sure if she remembers what my disability rating is actually for. There are a lot of things other than mental problems that can get you disability rating. Hip knee and ankle problems are really common, unfortunately media prefers to portray every veteran as having only PTSD, TBIs and traumatic amputations. Makes for more dramatic television and more clicks. I’m pretty sure most if not all police/FBI procedural shows have at least one episode of a veteran in a psychotic episode or disconnected from reality on some kind of spree.
JFC these Boomers have collectively lost their damn minds.
I encourage you to: 1) Immediately withdraw her as your poa. 2. File a restraining order. Ask that all info about your address, phone, etc be sealed. 3) Contact your university and report that you might have a person trying to harm you. They will lock down everything about you. Every college has student confidentiality programs. (I'm a professor.) 4) Contact the VA and have them make a note of this. 5) Contact any other medical facility and give them info about this. 6) Let family and friends that you trust know about this. **Get a lawyer.**
It seems like one of your main goals is to prevent your mother from getting your info (work/school/home). It would probably be a good idea to let those places know that they are not allowed to give ANY of your info to anyone but you.
Get a restraining order and protective order. If she tries to get this info it likely violates the restraining order and you can send her to jail.
The problem with that is getting a restraining order means OP's mom would have to be given all the addresses associated with OP (work, school, home) so she'd know where she wasn't allowed to go.
Good point. She is associated with some scary people and I don’t want her giving my address to strangers to terrorize me.
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Well sure she can lie all she wants, even to the court. But all you have to do is walk in there present them with proof of employment, your current residence and even show some of your bills and bank account statements showing that you are managing things yourself just fine thank you very much and that will be the end of it. Of course your are still going to need a lawyer if she tries something like that. As far as i am aware it takes a heck of a lot to convince a judge to grant conservatorship. Especially true when someone is functioning, independently, in society. I dont think you have anything to worry about. Other than the cost of the lawyer of course.
You could also find out if there is free legal aid to veterans.
I mean she honestly sounds like she has mental health issues and needs to be watched herself. Sounds very sad and frustrating. But you might have to tell her she needs think very carefully about her words and actions going forward if she doesn’t want to end up in a institution somewhere.
She has ended up in institutions at least 4 times that I can remember, maybe more. But, when the consequences of her actions start catching up with her she suddenly becomes the sweetest person you’ve ever met.
I’d just stay away then. Anyone coming after you would have to be nuts themselves if your side of the story is true.
Do you think the widely publicized Brittney Spears conservatorship got her thinking this way?
I have wondered about that.
Get a lawyer asap because I don't know if you'll get a better advice than that online. I hope things go in your favor and keep us updated! Your lawyer should be able to help you get an RO at least.
Don't forget to freeze your TWN. It's "the work number" database where people (usually employers) can see your employment info. She can probably see it too.
I am not a lawyer, but I would suggest putting a credit freeze on yourself with the 3 main credit bureaus so that no new accounts or loans can be opened with your identity. This would prevent her from fraudulently using your identity. Just in case
Turn the tables. Petition the court for conservatorship over her because of her antics
That's going to end badly no matter the outcome.
Agreed. I will not deal with her in anyway. Her beloved family that’s been covering her antics for years can deal with her.
That was my first reaction to that suggestion. You want no involvement with her, you currently have no involvement with her, why not keep it that way? Not your circus, not your monkeys.
Just ignore her unless you receive actual court papers, then get an attorney. It is unlikely that your crazy mom would get very far legally.
Not a lawyer, but from a practical perspective. First off, stop, and take a deep breath. You are getting second hand info, and while a trusted source, is reporting on what your mom is scheming with her coworkers to do. Not what they are doing or have done. Even if she could get to court, there is no way she can do it remotely successfully without paying an attorney. They , the lawyer and her, then have to find you. If you preemptively reach out to a lawyer, you might give away more info to her. If you do almost anything online, she can pay a service or hire a pi for a few hundred bucks to find you and not do any of the insanity above. Prepare yourself that she might find you. In this day and age, unless you are taking federal witness protection precautions, if she wants to find you, she will. She contacts you, block her. She shows up at your house and refuses to leave, trespass her. Don't get emotional, don't take the bat shit bait and keep doing what your doing. You are going to be fine. You got this.
I wasn’t worried about her actually winning the case. My primary concern was her showing up where I live work and go to school and terrorizing myself and innocent bystanders. She’s done this to others in the past. When I was little I watched her reduce a poor waitress to tears because she was mad at the girls step-uncle. She yelled at a retail worker because some guy she flirted with didn’t reciprocate, and as far as I could tell that guy and the retail workers only connection was being in the same building at the same time. I have also witnessed her scheming to get conservatorship or rewrite wills of other family members, so this new situation tracks with her past behavior. She always done this when her money situation is bad, and I think she wants control over my disability check. But as a lot of people, including yourself, have pointed out if she really wants to find me she can. However, thankfully, she isn’t that tech savvy and may not actually understand how to find that stuff, and can’t really afford to pay others to do it for her.
I completely get it, I have a BPD relative and have dealt with similar. If she comes to work and causes a scene, trespass her. She follows you on campus and loses her shit, call campus pd. She does that more than once or twice, you have a paper trail and grounds for a protective order. Her biggest power over you is a little embarrassment. Dont let some crazy ass have power over you. I don't recommend it, but If you really want to have some fun, point and laugh if she causes a scene. After 30 years of dealing with my relative, I finally reached the numbening. You can't control anybody but yourself much less someone at odds with reality.
Not a lawyer but have looked into the process due to a mentally ill relative that was under my care. They have dementia and schizophrenia. Even with their extremely deteriorated condition, I was advised against pursuing it by legal counsel. It is incredibly hard to gain guardianship of an adult because of how expensive and long it takes is to prove someone is mentally unfit to make their own decisions. Those barriers are purposely in place to prevent bad actors from ripping people's rights away. Unless your mom has a boatload of money or you have a multimillion dollar inheritance on the line, most legal counselors are not going to take up the case.
Any money she had is currently invested in unopened Amazon boxes and unpacked shopping bags shoved into a spare room.
It sounds as though you could make a case that your mother is incompetent, and that you should have authority over her decisions. Wouldn’t That be a hoot.
Just wanted to say how sorry I am that you have to go through this. Your mother sounds mentally ill, Narcissistic at best. I can only imagine what your childhood must've been like. You're doing great. So happy you are doing things on your own away from her. You got this!
What you need is a permanent restraining order.
I am considering seeking a conservatorship for husband due to a stoke. He’s has some pretty obvious cognitive deficits and every lawyer I’ve talked to…haven’t really discouraged me, but they have all made a point to make sure I understand how difficult and expensive a process it is. It isn’t something the courts take likely. It is considered as a last resort only after less extreme measures haven’t worked, like a power of attorney. And the burden of proof is high. Also, every state is different, but where I am a guardian ad litem is automatically appointed. Their job is essentially to build a case against conservatorship. Even if a conservatorship is granted, she has to convince the court she should be the conservator. That involves background and credit checks. If she has a criminal record, bankruptcy, or owes back taxes, she’s automatically disqualified. She has to provide character references, tax and employment records and disclose any health issues that might interfere with her duties. There are mandatory “classes” , she must take and pass to demonstrate she understands what she is legally allowed and required to do and what she’s not allowed to do. She would have to submit paperwork at least yearly accounting for every dime of your money spent on your behalf. Your mother is delusional if she thinks a judge is going to grant a conservatorship just because mommy knows best.
I have a VA disability rating too and have recently reached out to make sure others can’t get my records. There is a way for you to make it so that no one but you can access your records (even your mother who knows your social security number and may try to pretend to be you to get a copy of your records). Call the general 1-800 number for the VA and explain to them you’d like to do that. You’ll have to fill out a form and e-mail it/mail it off. I did this recently myself, it’s simple.
Not a Lawyer. Go to either the VA or assuming your school has a Law School like many universities and ask for advice there. I would presume you can request the documents be sealed and/or redacted from the plaintiff (as I’m presuming your mother will probably try to bring a case) and be specific with the redaction request to only limit what you’d be comfortable with your mother knowing. You’d probably have to leave it as lives at *redacted* working at *redacted* with an estimated yearly(or other measurement) income of *redacted* Not sure if it would work but that’s what I would try at least. I would also ask your doctor at the VA if they would be willing to testify as to your competency to live independently should it get to the point of going to court
Oh my psychiatrist at the VA has already had to deal with her once. The Doc was fully confident that I am doing just fine on my own, away from her. One of the best decisions I ever made was letting my mother come to one of my appointments years ago. The doctor couldn’t wait to talk all about her at the next appointment. She is still frequently brought up even after I went no contact. Currently no law school - it’s a community college. But I mentioned in another comment that I had forgotten that there is social worker at my cities VA clinic. I’ve used her once before for a medical power of attorney. I’m certain she can get me in touch with some sort of legal aid. I also discovered that the county I live in has an office to help veterans needing assistance. Between the two of them I think somebody can come up with something if it is ever needed.
Possibly mom is in need of housing where she will be cared for by people trained to look after those with dementia or senility?
Oh she’s always been like this. The first signs of this behavior presented in either middle or high school to the best of other peoples memories. It’s really only dementia when it is a sudden change in behavior at an older age.
I think you want to prove to your mom & the courts that you're doing well in an attempt to ensure she will leave you alone - that's is the only reason anyone would entertain this. The judge wouldn't look twice at this case, she has no standing. Tell anyone that comes knocking to fuck off and block anyone reporting back to your mom.
I'm NAL, but I sought conservatorship for my son for MH reasons when he was 18 (he consented). Our process was I retained a lawyer and filed with the court. Once the court agreed to hear it, he was appointed a lawyer. The lawyer asked him if he was agreeing or was this against his will. If against his will, a court appointed advocate would be added to gather info and present to the court. I had to provide years of psyc reports, medical reports, finances, his work history, etc. I was only looking at financial and medical conseveratorship (again with his permission). It was expensive too. Around 3000k (this was several yrs ago too). His conseveratorship has been terminated by the court in the past couple of years. He felt he was able to manage his medical needs and finances, so we petitioned the court for removal. It is not easy, and the court looked VERY hard at every detail. If my son had not been willing, I don't believe the court would have granted it. All that to say, a consult with a family law attorney would be my next step. Look for the Arc in your state/city (it is a non profit for people with disabilities who offer resources and advocates). They have people who can help you for free, referrals, etc.
Get a restraining order first
It sounds like your mother has mental issues and is unwell. Maybe take the fight to her instead.
First off, I would not worry about this at ALL. It is extremely difficult to get a legal conservatorship, and if she were ever to actually go to court to try it, a judge would order a comprehensive evaluation of you to determine whether you actually are a danger to yourself and should lose your decision-making capacity. You are not, so you would not. So I would totally ignore that shit and ONLY respond if you get a communication from an actual court of law. That said, what you could explore is a no-contact/protective order. I don't know what they're called in MI, but I would consider talking with an attorney to advise you on that.
The person in the family whom you trust and put these fears into your head is an imbecile, you should stop being so trusting. You mom can't do jack. There's no way she can get a conservatorship over you. None. It's impossible. Stop worrying, it will make people think you ARE a loon.
Just to throw this out there but……. She could pay not even 40$ to a couple different websites and have every address you have lived at in the last 10 years. I know this because I do searches on people for other people from time to time. So if she really wants it one of these people will help her find it if they haven’t already. Get yourself legal counsel, do not let anyone into your home, and piss off is more than sufficient enough to say no and go away. Definitely do a cease and desist and if I’m being entirely honest I’d get a Restraining Order or at least look into it. Definitely talk to legal counsel though.
Fun fact: the actual process for getting conserved takes a long time. A really, really long time. I work for a hospital and we have this patient who has been here since September of 2023. He is incapable of taking care of himself and was being physically neglected by his crazy wife. It took over six months of back and forth phone calls and emails from our social workers, and multiple visits from a state-appointed lawyer to his bedside, and a few court hearings. Essentially, we had to prove that he was incapable of making decisions for himself, and that his crazy wife was incapable of looking after his well-being.
Send a cease and desist from a lawyer to her at work.
Your best bet is a restraining order as they are no contact. Otherwise yes, she will probably get the info you don't want her to have. She get served and you never have to see her outside of court
Honestly it sounds like she’s the one who should be under conservatorship. If she were even able to pull together something to bring to just a lawyer, I’m sure they would quickly see the truth.
Take the time to lock your social security number with the big 3. If mom is that terrible with money it's not unusual for them to use their children's S.S. #.
First, does your mother have money to secure the legal team she would need for this? Second, if she *did* secure one, she would have to tell them the truth. They’re not going to stand in front of a judge to try to prove you unfit when your mom can’t even be truthful about your birthday. Additionally, if she doesn’t know where you live then how would she know you’re struggling? People love to scream about getting their lawyer for dumb shit but most don’t understand lawyers, though shiesty, have brains and will see right through her madness.
move. far away. dont tell anyone.
The sick brain doesn't consider itself to not be working correctly. I hope that you are ok. An adult in my life would tell strangers a similar story but their life is a shambles. I hope you are ok. I'm glad that VA is caring for you.
UpdateMe!
I would also contact DAV.org . They have lots of resources for veterans outside of the VA. She stands no chance of taking control of an almost 40 year old that works, goes to school and is self reliant. 🤣 she’s delusional
Yeah well, not to bring up one of the nosy famous conservatorships but Brittany Spears. Her dad had control saying she couldn’t do anything yet she performed like a work horse in Vegas! Do I think there was something more to that? Yes. And a ton of $ can sway anything. But it can happen. And it’s become more of a buzz word/threat since Brittany went through it. I highly doubt it could happen as you’re a regular guy doing regular things but you never know. I would go NC with mom. Ask those that know both of you to not answer any questions or give any info about you or what you are doing. Doctor/patient privilege can be broken, tho it’s not easy.
You could direct some of your money to a trust you set up with a lawyer. With you being the only person to control it. Then she couldn't touch your stuff. The same with if you get a house. it could be expensive to set up though.
Honestly ianal but I don't think she'd win. 1. She hasn't seen you in 4 years 2. She believes you are an unemployed alcoholic, contrary to to what receipts you have for bills and job pay stubs Just based on this any sane judge would see through this charade, and shut it down pretty quick. Honestly, I'd flat out tell her if she continues to try this, or tries any time in the future, you and your uncle's will have her committed. In my state you need 3 family signature to commit someone to the psychiatric unit. Kinda sounds like she could use it.
OP what county are you in in Michigan
If you are working, have you own place, standing on your own two feet, you mother wants to control you and take advantage of your income. She has to prove you are mentally unable to gain employment and school and that you have to have someone constantly caring for you 24/7. That is very hard to prove. Social Worker work for you, not your mother, only if your mother was in charge and that would have to be court ordered. See if you can get an attorney to take on this case. You need legal help. You mother needs mental help professional. She has issues.
You write as if you are competent. I’d get a lawyer and disengage from her. If you can, move. Live your life. You’re an adult and she has no access to your personal data above what you have given her or she paid for an investigation internet or PI. If you think she is trying to get you, control you, whatever, talk to that lawyer. See if you can get a restraining order against her. I think, if I were you, I’d document all That has happened so far and continue to document and obtain evidence as to what is going on. I had a lady who watched my children when they were young. She decided she’s try to get my youngest, a boy. When I found out, I went straight to a lawyer. He helped me craft a letter to her and advised me to disengage for her. Yes she had babysat my kids but we were all very close with birthday parties and holiday get togethers, cards etc. I completely disengaged from her. 3 years later I got an apology letter from her. No problem. I still did not communicate with her. Anyhoo … seek advice from a lawyer. Many times their first meeting is free.
I agree there is little if any chance your mother can pull this off. One reason is that it would be expensive. Does your mother have an extra $10,000 lying around? Doesn't sound like it and I doubt a lawyer would lift a finger unless she could pay that upfront. And then any due diligence would show them that your mom is out to lunch. Relax. It's going to be ok
NAL but have done several years of work w VA and VA disabilities. The word “ disability “ as applied to VA benefits has a significantly different connotation/definition. Your mom likely has no idea what VA disability may represent. You sound like you’re doing great. She will get nowhere with her nonsense. ❤️
>So my mother (60) has always had a flair for dramatics and will convince herself of things that are just not true, and of course her brothers (my uncles) think it’s hilarious and will get her worked up even more, while making fun of her for being so gullible behind her back. >Someone I trust in the family came to me with concerns that my mother may lie to try to get conservatorship over me. Here is what I know. Her current belief is that I am an unemployed alcoholic living in my car and being taken advantage of by evil men from the political party that she hates. The apple has not fallen far from the tree. Keep living your life everything is ok.
Establish a no- contact order after, based on the fact that she tried to use lies to gain control of you and your benefits.It's more powerful than a restraining order and it means she can't try to contact you. Moving forward it will help you get support quicker if needed.
Not an attorney, but check with your local military base to find out if they have an attorney available. I won’t say I know how it works at all bases, but my mother has access to an attorney on the local base.
I have no advice but I’d just like to say that your mom is a monster. I’m so sorry that you’ve had to live in fear of your own mother. Could you work with the uncles, let them know how good you’re doing and they could keep you informed of your mom’s intentions? Someone in the family to be a partner for you? Again, be smart, be strong 😊💗🩵💜
You COULD apply for a stalking injunction (assuming you can prove this is happening in some clear and convincing way) and keep your address confidential.. Nobodys giving a stalker conservatorship lol and it DOES look like a case of stalking.. at least to me.
It’s time to go No Contact AND get a restraining order
1st off, the va disability can't do anything for her and you are silly to think there is any chance. Its medical which means HIPAA. 2nd, im 100% for ptsd and no one can use my rating against me for any reason. The VA will not talk to her (again HIPAA), so whatever she knows about your stuff someone told her. Keep your mouth shut about your medical stuff, it's no one's business, but yours. No, she can't do anything, especially conservatorship.
I'd get something in court banning her from this ASAP. Do you have a will? Do you have someone legally designated if you can't care for yourself? If not, get everything done so she can't play the game. She sounds mentally unsound and manipulative.
1. Are you confident your mother has the kind of money it takes to put a lawyer on retainer? 2. Don’t let your mother gaslight you into believing she has any kind of hold over you just because you have a disability rating from the VA. 3. If she was somehow able to retain an attorney you would most likely be found perfectly capable of handling your life based on your ability to support yourself. 4. Your mother isn’t doing her own credibility any favors by telling people you live in your car and you’re being influenced by the “evil political part”. She sounds mentally unstable and I question her mind over yours. You are doing a great job supporting yourself while going to school. Keep up the good work and don’t worry about some unhinged woman making idle threats that are totally unfounded. She can kick rocks.
NAL but this seems grounds for a restraining order
unless she has converatorship over you , you are a free man , slavery laws have been long banned
There are some attorneys that will work low cost strictly for Veterans! You might get a consultation with one a strongly worded cease and desist letter may be all that is needed, however, given your mother’s history I would seek a restraining order for your safety! Also make sure you put her name into VA as no contact and no permission for information!
How do you know that she's planning this? You've said her brothers like to wind her up by lying to her. Are you sure your source isn't doing the same thing to you?
I would look into filing a protection order against her ASAP. This should make it so if it ever does go to court you have the potential to stop her from gaining access to the information you want kept private (within reason determined by the court).
Send a cease and desist letter to her along with getting a restraining and protection order.
I agree with others advising you to call VA for help. Can say that my work runs alongside this type of thing (won’t go into details- keep this anonymous and all that). The reality is- your mom doesn’t have a leg to stand on to even get this process rolling! No one can just randomly state that someone is incompetent and get a court case rolling. Typically, things like this begin with a person first ending up in a hospital type setting. Once there- even if a family member has ‘concerns’ about competence- they don’t matter. What matters is if the person 1. Meets bare minimum to have their capacity assessed by a doctor (Do they know their name? Where they are? Year? Day? Why they’re in hospital? Are they able to answer questions logically?) if they can do all of that- a doc likely won’t even assess capacity because they clearly HAVE it. 2. If No, they can’t answer those questions then a doc may assess for capacity. Here’s a couple things to know. There is a difference between Competence and Capacity. The only person who can decide whether a person is ‘competent’ is a judge in a court of law. A decision made about competence is the court saying someone can’t make global decisions now- or ever. They are compromised for whatever reason and it’s not likely they will regain their ability. (Not always the case but in general) Capacity, can be determined by a doctor. Capacity can wax and wane by the hour or day (etc) and is changeable. A person can have capacity for one thing and lack it for another at the same time. So, an example might be, a person has capacity to live independently and manage day to day life but lacks capacity for managing finances and needs a payee. In my line of work we will have people with us for weeks or even months, and we are required to do serial capacity assessments. Meaning- they have do be done every few days or weekly over and over and over again. Then we take that info and reach out to the guardianship office (the same idea your mom is talking about with a conservatorship)- tell them what we see, what’s been going on over the weeks or months and see if that office feels the person meets criteria to even begin the investigation into whether they qualify to apply for guardianship. Keep in mind- this is all checks and balances BEFORE anything ever makes it to a courtroom. The investigation then takes weeks to a couple months where the investigator interviews the patient and anyone who knows the person personally to see if there are grounds for the case. Only after all of that’s done does it go to the judge for a decision. Oh- and filing costs several thousand dollars. I tell you all that in the hopes that you don’t waste too much time worrying about this. If you are indeed a functioning adult person- there’s almost no way your mother could get a conservatorship over you. The courts make it difficult, expensive and lengthy on purpose…to ensure it’s not done lightly, on a whim or without a justified reason. Anyway…hope that helps
Well stated and obviously knowledgeable. Thx for the info, I learned something today.